Hearts and minds is my column for today.
Today’s news:
A communist no longer, Tiglao is now ambassador.
Oakwood mutineer escapes, hits Arroyo.
Abat’s vow: We will not leave until Arroyo’s gone while the Palace sees sinister forces: Gonzalez: Not the work of Abat alone.
Typically, No ‘Eraption’: Historian likens Estrada to Bonifacio . Salazar is wrong. Estrada resembles Aguinaldo more.
Technorati Tags: Gloriagate, history, journalism, media, military, Philippines
Before leaving the house another input if you will…..
Karl
December 15th, 2005 09:02 9Personal note and speaking for my self
Abat has no way finding out the schedule of the hearings of Oakwood and the escape….
The events are freak coincidences
NOW Palace are these just mere coffee shop rumours?
Maybe you should balance fantasy and reality a bit….
now to the spin masters and puppeteers whether foreign or local
let us have a merry christmas…please
The very public brawl between GMA and the opposition is just a show, even if the blows are for real. But the real power is with a faction of the military and they are pulling the strings. The politicians on both sides of the fence are literally and figuratively clowns and Abat is simply a stooge.
MLQ3: I know Abat is Karl’s family friend. But his really a pathetic person.Just like when one over extends his lack then it boils down to ego & the brain malfuntioning eventually.To do what his doing means expences.Just woundering who is “investing”?Money makes the world go round.But I guess he nust have ‘senior citizen” discounts.
MLQ3; Karl, I think that w/in the military there are those who are professionals & are very well aware that any short cut will be short leaved & just add to our mountain of problems.There are also those “reckless idealist” who in their desperation are dealing w/ “investors”.In a way Abat is just the “clown” in the front line.Personaly,I think those in the military who only want good goverment are not any different from those of us who share the same hopes.The few “reckless” & are also for sale are coordinating w/ a has been politician.this is to say that I think saying that it’s the military pulling the strings is not an absolute.But it’s the military being presured heavely by an “investor”
But Abat can always use his senior citizen card to get a discount on his bail.at least he has an advantage.kaya pala there are investors backing him up.Times are hard every discount counts.
Indeed there are officers who offer coups for sale. It’s not cheap, though. Reliable sources say it’s P100 million or above for a credible military uprising. Some politicians in the opposition have that kind of money. But they have not been able to tap into the real keepers of the realm.
There is a clique that really controls the military. The others are just pretenders. This clique is the force to reckon with. It is believed to have strong connections with the U.S. government. To give them credit, this clique may indeed have the welfare of the country at heart. However, they do not believe in entrusting too much power to the civilian politicians who have made a mess of this country since after World War II. Under U.S. prodding, it is preferable to maintain the veneer of civilian supremacy. An out-and-out military takeover would be unpalatable, not only to the Filipino public (although that idea gets more attractive to many by the day), but to the international community. The problem is that even if this group wants GMA out, our politicians are totally “bulok”. So the only way out is to devise a phasing out of Gloria. A graceful way for GMA to cut short her term and place in a system which would have enough built-in controls so that politicians have less leeway to screw up the country.
Lately, however, GMA has been too cocky for her own good. She seems to be needing a good browbeating to put her in her place. Knowingly or unknowingly, Abat and so many others are just pawns in this elaborate game of political chess.
MLQ3;Karl thanks for the info,appreciate it.Thing that I can’t get is that same group or clique who controls things I don’t beleave have clean hands just the same.had a cousin who was in the Army & left just out of disgust not nesseserely because of the civilian authority but his superiors.
Personaly,it’s not only the politicians that are totaly “bulok” but it’s really the entire system that is composed of military & politicians alike.
I still think that PGMA is not the problem alone.If the military is using it’s muscle to get concessions will not the civilian goverment do the same.Only thing is that the other side has fire power.
I still think that a wider view is better.I think we have arrived to a point where lines have been drawn because it’s about 2 groups fighting for power.
My view is if we follow the power play direction.I’m 100% sure there will be no winners.
I think we must focus on Concom w/c concom w/c can be a start in putting everything in place.
I think the “hate object” mentality is clouding objective judgements.
we seem to be like kids fighting till the end just because “amor propio” is at stake & it certainly has nothing to do for paitrotissim.It’s all about human instict for “control” & the “territorial” mentality.
MLQ3;karl, I guess you can hate her curse her & wish her the worst.But I must admit PGMA has got balls!!If not matagal na yan nilampaso!!It seems to me just like there is corruption in the civilian level.The military can’t claim to be immaculate.Just like the Gen. Garcia issue.are not the same “proclamed savior clique” shortchanging the very same soldiers? I think karl it’s a fight for big bucks & big power & i certainly condem that!!!
So that makes us expectators between thives & power grabbers!!
joselu, one way may be to support the call for the comelec to resign.
MLQ3,
This is to convey my official puzzlement at, if not the state of being appalled by, Salazar’s basic observations. The errors are too glaring. I’m no historian, if course, but his observations are a proof that even so-called experts can be terribly wrong. 🙁 Erap as Bonifacio? Good Lord!
Eto pa:
The moneyed class conspiring to oust Erap? That’s a terrible lie! The people who trooped to EDSA were common people. It was a genuine people power, not Erap’s busload power.
On the surface, there is enough of a similarity between Erap’s storyline and that of Bonifacio’s. Given the general lack of awareness in matters concerning history, i suppose this is enough there to let any decent historian get away with starting such a myth. However, EDSA 3 was as genuine as EDSA 2. How people got there (by bus, car or mrt) does not make any difference. In a way, i’m glad there was an EDSA 3 as it gave an opportunity to feel what’s it like to be at the receiving end of people power. Makes you appreciate it even more.
i can’t believe you. can’t you tell the difference between spontaneous and hakot power. if a cat with some horse sense can, so can you, as long as you don’t play blind. and can’t you tell a peaceful rally from a violent one, a “mob rule”??
The leaders and the outcome may have been different, but i see it as a genuine expression from our fellow citizens.
I agree in in cvj’s line of thinking. Even if EDSA 3 was supported by hakot (for food or money), it was still an expression of ‘some’ of our kabayans. Suportado lang ng grupo ni Erap. In a way EDSA 2 looked the same, the money came from civil society. EDSA 1 was the only unplanned/spontaneous of the three.
But then again, imho, all 3 events were extra constitutional and did not bring in real and lasting change.
In EDSA 1, given the choice between Cory and Marcos, I will choose Cory. In EDSA 2 between Erap and Gloria, Gloria looked the better choice. In EDSA 3, Gloria still looked the better choice. And where did it bring us? Nowhere near where we want to be. My idea is that we changed the people on top but they were not any better. And we ordinary filipinos were not any better (we didn’t change for the better and build on from almost like a new beginning). It sounds idealistic but in order for the country to move on in a positive direction, somehow, all of us must change how we see and do thinkgs.
Throwing an octogenarian in the slammer. Pathetic this sham presidency is. The response is very much calibrated to elicit disgust even among casual observers.
Abat’s recalcitrance should be handled with a modicum of deference and tact. To a certain degree, Abat’s arrest is very much reminiscent of Valentin de los Santos’s incarceration in the 1960s.
In Inquirer Compact’s version, the headline of the Tiglao story read: Ambassador Bobi? Sounds Greek to CA
i am not disgusted with throwing this crazy in the slammer. he knows what he is doing anyway. he harks about the system that is bulok for the past how many years yet wasn’t he a very active playah in those days? martial law military officer? defense secretary in fvr’s time? did he clean up the dod then? and what about salvador enriquez? wasn’t he a member of that “den of thieves” that manolo’s old paper’s editors use to attack? puh-leez!
Throw him in the slammer! That’s the consequence of his actions, he knew that from the start. His statement in Ellen Tordesilla’s blog shows that very well.
He believes his actions are for the good of the country and he supported his beliefs with actions. Maybe he did what he did because he’s got nothing to lose (almost nothing anyway) as he himself said he’s at the twilight of his life. But still, that is admirable and I do admire him for that.
He also challenged the younger generation to act. He said, that if he can (an old man), we should be able to act to. You know, support our words with action. Maybe he was just too much in a hurry. He mis-timed and miscalculated.
hmm, i think i smell romance…
http://restyo.blogspot.com/2005/12/unfortunate-importunings.html
I think it was a month ago or so when liberal talkshow commentator Al Franken was asked by one of his audience to react on the ad hominems spewed against him on TV by our neocon kababayan Michelle Malkin. He said and I paraphrase, “You don’t talk back to a fool unless you are also one.”
Handling Gen. Abat should also be in the same vein, huwag na lang patulan. What’s the worst that he can do at 80? Throw a walker on Arrovo? Organize a geriatric commando squad?
The problem with this pseudo presidency is that its hold on legitimacy is so flimy that even the senile barkings of an old fart is construed in paranoia as a threat against government.
Sheesh.
mlq3, since you quoted Mussolini in your column, it may be
worth referring to Fromm’s ‘Escape from Freedom’ which is an account of Fascism’s rise in the 30’s.
“We have been compelled to recognize that millions in Germany were as eager to surrender their freedom as their fathers were to fight for it…that millions were indifferent and did not believe the defense of freedom to be worth fighting and dying for. We also recognize that the
crisis of democracy is not a peculiarly Italian or German problem, but on confronting the modern state.”
Looks like a similar dynamic is at work here and now in the hearts and minds of our kababayans in the increasingly frequent calls for a ‘low maintenance government’.
MLQ3,I think the “resign” lne for the comelec people won’t work.It just makes the situation worst.Can’t we be more creative in ways that things will move & bthe people at the end are the winners.Since comelec needs the budget for the computerization program.
why not it be released on the condition that the project be supervised by a special group.In the meantime let the ombudsman do it’s job on the cases versus the commisioners.I think that in the persut of justice we must not be reckless of accusing people left & right.We must give the law a chance to work.At the same time making things move so as not to be in a forever deadlock.
This is pure surrealism!
Joselu
Thank you for your comments
Everyone’s opinion must be respected that is why I like this blog because it never went to the extent that one commenter will hunt or haunt another
Hey A debrux keep your cool bout Dodong ,MitaMs etc.. it is not healthy
comments are not for conversion it may show advocacy but until repectable extent only if you please
it is very healthy especially we have been commenting for a long time now in my case almost two months
had my exchanges with sleeping but it went ok eventually we agreed to disagree
adb remember my misim pressions about u once but everything is water under the bed..
before I was intimidated by DJB but having visited his blog and having emailed him I found him to be cool
foot voter was once a companion in another blog another cool guy …….
Carl,Geo,DJB,A de brux.HVRDS we all meet in another host as well….
HVRDS u r very informative
Carl,DJB I never stop admiring your intelligence
ADB you are funny when you are not showing any advocacy
good day to you all!
Manolo, why Aguinaldo?
Joselu
Carl and Karl are two different individuals
one is from cebu (I think) one is from Manila
Abat was FVR’s DND Usec and DND Sec successively when former DND Chief Rene de Villa decided to run for president. If you remember, De Villa and FVR had a falling out because FVR followed the party line to support de Venecia for president. As we all know, de Villa had the backing of the Ayalas and the Aboitiz clans and thought that with such high-power backing, FVR would be convinced to “toe the lineâ€Â.
Abat is a known and proven patriot although, on the side, he is also very pro-American. I am not sure if FVR has any real control over Abat.
During Ramos term and at the height of the AFP Modernization Plans, he used to be very, very close to MBC’s Bill Luz and to his sister Tina Luz Rose when the latter was working as a broker for a US company – Lockheed Martin’s radar sale to the Philippines.
I cannot say anything against Abat as a soldier and as a man. He gave lots to his country; as a soldier, he believes his allegiance is to his country first and foremost and as one true warrior, he will not “toe the GMA or FVR lineâ€Â.
They may deride him for this “comical†putsch but not many – not even today’s young Filipino turks in government who think they possess ‘manly courage’ – can ever equal Abat’s bravoura and courage.
As Abat said, he’s in the twilight of his years, yet he dared all the powers that be, that is a quality that’s lacking in a lot of people in government today.
Let them arrest Abat! He will get international mileage and moreover, expose the rotteness of Gloria to the whole world.
Fortunato Abat is a real man willing to back up his beliefs with actions. Anna is quite right to say that not many can and want to do that anymore. Most would pick the easy way out most of the time.
Pau, both were small town mayors from the local gentry but viewed with skepticism by the wealthy and educated, but who enjoyed a popular following. Both were brought down by their resorting to small town politicking when what was required of them was a national, and larger, role.
in kentucky recently, an 87-year old lady was thrown into prison after being found guilty of re-selling her pain medication. apparently, this is a common recourse for seniors in the US so they can supplement their monthly pensions. even if putting them in prison puts a strain on the system (they require more attention, care and money) keeping them out of prison is not an option because they broke the law.
the easiest way out is what abat chose to do. it takes more brains to plan a putsch that will succeed over one that won’t.
BROKE WHAT LAW?
Pau thank you for asking about aguinaldo estrada parallel
otherwise I would have not known to answer
A de brux
definitely not sedition
and not seduction
the latter was my answer to a second year high school quiz on the case filed against andresss bonifacio
my retort to the teacher was wrong spelling….
Listening to dzmm
they have been discussing unmmemployment figures for the past half hour……
hey guys we are just complying to new international standards
No arrest warrant, not in police uniform and no official charges are indicative of shakedown move to neutralize the General. There is also no intent of prosecuting him and put him in prison for good. In fact, the first order of business was to have him examined by a doctor to avoid disastrous publicity if the General suddenly dies in detention.
This is just a slight show of force on control, but nothing more. The only thing that can hasten the downfall of President if she choose to impose emergency rule which the nation inherently opposed.
As pointed out Erap has similarity to Bonifacio for his close affiliation with the poor. I can see it in his penchant for having lots of kids. Did he fathered 13 kids?
Malas nga lang si Bonifacio kay Aguinaldo. Malas din si Erap kung papaano, for the sake of similarity.
Am not sure if Gloria is now paying the price for withdrawing troops in Iraq. US will always exact punishment even on its own people like Ambassador Joseph Wilson. Erap had been able to destabilize Arroyo’s government and would have succeeded through FPJ if not for the spoiler Panfilo Lacson splitting the votes of the opposition. US timely prosecution of Aragoncillo and Aquino put a hold on the powerful and fearless senator, at the same time effectively disengage sharing of information against Gloria.
Para di ko na ulitin copy paste na naman ako
Karl Says:
December 16th, 2005 at 7:46 am
naalala ko conspiracy theories ko ke Senator Dick Lugar, John Negroponte
ang pagkontra ng Britanya sa France at germany hanggan ngayon re:agri subsidies pero bulagbulagan sa tate
me nakikita akong internationmal flavor na nangyayari
nakakinggit ang Iraq at Kuwait nakapag football na
tayo laging kulelat sa football
…………………………………………………..
pasaporte ni garci
sus drivers license nga ng adik at lasinggerong driver pwede mapeke
passport pa
………………………..
bolante
di pwde imbitahin yan nasa Rotary meeting eh………
sandra Cam tinanggalan ng security
babay jueteng gate…..
Karl Says:
December 16th, 2005 at 8:00 am
Rizalist ito opinyon ng palagi din natin binibisita na blog
Ricky Carandang
December 15th, 2005 23:26 13A de Brux
I don’t believe that FVR had anything to with Abat’s little scheme either.
And while I do find his action silly, I retain a large measure of respect for the man.
Abat has literally fought for this country and paid a heavy price. His sons joined the military and I beleive one even died in battle.
You are absolutely right. He dared the powers that be and stood up for what he believed in at the risk of his freedom and public humiliation.
How many people are there in the DFA, the Comelec, the AFP, and other government offices who have knowledge of what really happened in the last election but refuse to come forward out of fear or narrow self interest?
Looking at it from that perspective one could argue that Abat is a bigger man then them.
Karl Says:
December 16th, 2005 at 8:02 am
Ito naman sagot ko sa sagot nya sakin…
karl
December 16th, 2005 05:09 9Ricky Carandang
December 15th, 2005 16:16 11Karl,
I agree. There is no connection between Abat and the escape of Faeldon. I can’t there is no connection between some of the other events though.
……………………………………….
If there is interconnection to others it still not seditious
Rizalist medyo timely tong comment mo ngayun deadline ng ConCom proposal eh….Medyo agree ako re:supreme court next chief is coming…
Rizalist Says:
December 16th, 2005 at 5:51 am
Sa lagay nating ito, mauunahan pa tayo ng mga IRAQI sa DEMOKRASYA. Katatapos lang nila ng parliamentary elections, habang tayo nagkukudeta and gumagawa ng plano para sa parliamentary at federal at kung anoano pa. Yang si Abat … palagay ko pakawala ni Almonte at FVR “to change the subjectâ€Â. Halatang halata sa interview ni Joe kay Pia Hontiveros, gustong ibalik sa chacha ang usapan, hindi si Garci. Kaya ako dedma sa storyang yan. Sa Korte Suprema dapat nakatuon ang pansin. Doon tayo kikitilin!
Karl Says:
December 16th, 2005 at 8:13 am
OO nga ano next week retirement na ni Davide
mag forward looking nga taong lahat
ok ba Rizalist
kelangan ang JBC transaparent pakita nila resulta ng psycho analysis resume ng lahat
at essay test ipakita nila para mabasa natin kandidato
kahit maging si Miriam pa yan pakita nyo lahat
There maybe no connection but after the Philippine troops withdrawal, US pressured Japan to tighten rules on entertainers which are dominantly Filipinos, or else US will impose visa on Japanese nationals. These Filipinos donot represent threat to US security apart from the fact that democracy is always tolerant of entertainers and related services.
What can we say bout the proposal to scrap 2007 elections?….
Karl : anti terror bill approved lower what about upper forget upper bicam nga pala systema dito
anti terror bill approved in the lower house
that answers my quetion bout who will give in majority leader or cayetano
(they were interviewed by cas the other night
People, you saw how the CIDG treated Gen. Abat Et Al. If you think that was nasty, you aint seen nothing yet! Remember Al Ghozi? Yeah… well his warden will be appointed as CIDG Chief. Yes. This is the same guy who was also the PNP-ATO Chief implicated to the killing of Lilia Diaz! Not to forget… The Anti Terror Bill is also being passed. So watch out everyone. No senior citzen, retired general, junior officer, media man, lawyer, politician, activist… Let’s welcome Al Ghozi’s warden!
Hei! luogo che interessante avete fatto, ben cotto!