Sent back to the Supremes
Let’s start with Neri and executive privilege: A timeline courtesy of the PCIJ.
My column today is A color of constitutionality The Inquirer editorial today is In aid of transparency, My column was less enthusiastic than today’s editorial about the compromise offered by the Chief Justice: Fr. Joaquin Bernas, S.J. who, by all accounts, was coaching the legal team arguing the Senate case, wasn’t pleased, either, but tried to make the best of it in A case of delicate balancing -but all have been overtaken by events.
The problem is of course, something that came as a surprise yesterday evening: Senate rejects SC compromise on Neri.
(see also, Senate rejects compromise: Conditions set by SC seen as crippling legislature) I’ve been mulling over the reasons why the Senate decided to harden its position and rebuff the Supreme Court. I think the Senators decided they are operating from a position of strength, legally and politically speaking.
By all accounts, going into yesterday’s oral arguments, the Supreme Court was split, 7-7, on Neri’s petition. The effect of such a vote, if it had taken place, would have been to deny Neri his petition. However, revealing, in essence, a party-line vote would have discredited the Supreme Court, because it would have shown that even clearly significant cases are now reduced to which justice is loyal to the President, or not.
For that reason, it would have made sense for the Chief Justice to throw the ball back in the Senate’s court, hoping it would clarify the extent to which Neri intended to be obstructionist. The Palace, for its part, faced with a sure loss if the Supreme Court had voted, could also look forward to a reprieve, while Neri in the meantime could invoke executive privilege, get into trouble with the senators, and have the whole thing end up back in court.
By which time, a new Justice would have been appointed, thus further firming up the administration’s numbers in the high court.
The Senate, though, in rejecting the compromise offered by the Chief Justice, and which has therefore puts pressure back on the court. The Supreme Court can now proceed to drag its feet: SC needs time for final ruling on executive privilege.
Lawyer Teddy Te, for one, is happy over the Senate’s decision (see his blog, Vincula):
After nine hours of orals, the Supreme Court Chief Justice offers a compromise–perceived by Malacanang to be “solomonic”, which should already put you on guard–to the Senate: 1. Neri will testify at the Senate, 2. he will not be arrested anymore, 3. but the three questions he had invoked “executive privilege” against will not be asked anymore and will be considered asked, and 4. each and every time he invokes executive privilege, the issue will be tossed back to the Court.
My first reaction was that it was a “cop out” by the Court, after strong decisions on press freedom and showing strong resolve against EJK and ED with amparo and habeas data. Later on, after speaking with very reliable sources, it made sense–though I still didn’t agree with the compromise; my sources told me that the CJ and Justice Carpio felt outvoted by the Gloria people in the Court and feared a loss had they insisted on a decision–so to avoid a loss, the CJ offered the compromise. One step backward, two steps forward–was it Lenin who said this, or Tommy Manotoc? Yes, it made sense but it still left me with a bad taste in the mouth.
If the Senate approved the deal, Gloria wins, hands down and the Senate loses, big time. The power of the Senate to summon witnesses would be severely impaired and the dictator gets away with silence on the three questions that directly place the ZTE deal at her doorstep.
I am glad that the Senate FINALLY acquired a collective spine (did that include you, Joker?) and some collective sense of identity and history and said, “thanks, but no thanks.” I hope the SC addresses this issue and, despite the lifting of E0 464, rules that its invocation under those circumstances was not proper and that Neri SHOULD answer those 3 questions.
This explains, to my mind, why the Palace slams Senate’s ‘arrogance’ for rejecting SC proposal. The compromise could have hidden the party-line vote it had in the Supreme Court; and it bought that most precious of political commodities, time. But, since anything is possible, it could also happen that an irritated Supreme Court, piqued by the Senate’s rejection, could then simply decide in Neri’s favor.
In the meantime, returning to Fr. Bernas’ piece, some problems now arise:
If no compromise is reached, will the court require Neri to appear at the Senate? Neri has claimed that he has the right not to heed the Senate’s call.
Should the court require Neri to appear, it would mean that for the court, the current Senate inquiry is not one where President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo may prevent a department secretary from appearing, as provided for in Article VI, Section 22 of the Constitution.
Rather, the court would be saying that the current Senate inquiry is one in aid of legislation under Article VI, Section 21.
In Senate v Ermita, the court said that only the President and justices of the Supreme Court are exempt from summonses to an investigation in aid of legislation. Neri is neither the President nor a justice of the Supreme Court.
Should Neri still refuse to appear, in effect he would be claiming a right analogous to the right of an accused against self-incrimination. An accused can completely refuse to take the witness stand.
But if Neri is required to appear, the court would be saying that his situation is more analogous to the right against self-incrimination of a witness who is not an accused.
A witness who is not an accused may raise the defense of right against self-incrimination only when an incriminating question is asked. He has no right to refuse to take the witness stand altogether.
By analogy, the court would be saying that Neri may raise the issue of executive privilege only when a question he deems to be against executive privilege is asked.
It should be remembered that executive privilege belongs to the President and to no one else. At most, it can be claimed by the executive secretary by express authority of the President.
Hence, Neri must be able to show that after prior consultation with the President, he was instructed to claim executive privilege.
Whereupon, following the teaching of Senate v Ermita and in accordance with the tenor of the questions posed by the justices on Tuesday, Neri will be asked what exactly he is seeking to hide behind executive privilege.
At this stage, and as already mentioned during the Tuesday hearing, it may become necessary for the court to examine in chambers the secret sought to be guarded by the executive for the purpose of determining whether indeed the matter can or should be legitimately kept from the eyes of the public.
After all, the Senate has to be properly informed if it is to legislate intelligently, and the public generally has a constitutional right to be informed of matters of public concern.
Moreover, as already admitted in the Tuesday hearing, criminal matters are not covered by executive privilege.
Meanwhile, the story behind this news item -Arroyo revokes EO 464 after meeting with religious leaders- I found out last night. No one was supposed to know the President was going to meet her allied bishops, particularly the ones from Mindanao, at the Discovery Suites. However, the media was tipped off and reporters camped out. This meant that attendees were observed coming and going. And that the President ended up making her announcement sooner than planned. Speaking of bishops, Patricio P. Diaz dissects recent statements by the Catholic hierarchy.
In the meantime, Senators also want Memorandum Circular 108 scrapped. Check out smoke’s comparison of E.O. 464 and M.C. 108.
When he does publish a book, it will a doozy. Read Lito Banayo’s growing feeling of Déjàvu. Meanwhile, the plot thickens: Arroyo not just witness at NBN-ZTE deal signing: and Another China contract missing.
And Gail Ilagan has some interesting observations concerning Lozada’s abduction.
Economic news: Poverty worsens between 2003 and 2006, according to the National Statistics Coordination Board. (see Poverty worsens despite growth and Poor Filipino families now number 4.7 million and More Filipinos below poverty line ) In his blog, blog@AWBHoldings.com comments on the figures. In his column, Peter Wallace says that while government claimed 7.3 percent GDP growth last year, the real figure is about 4.8 percent growth. See also Inflation surges to 5.4% in February and NEDA expects to record growth slowdown in Q1.
How do foreign analysts go about determining risk in the Philippines? Read Forecast that Arroyo will survive has ‘large margin of error’â€â€analyst.
In the blogosphere, Phoenix Eyrie, Reloaded, is at the very least, ambivalent about opposition to the President. Spring Roll is confused by recent events. Mandaluyong High School says, let’s think positive. Splice and Dice thinks that the issues gives people a chance to seize the day. blackshama believes the old People Power is dead, long live whatever replaces it.
Observations from a Lowly Traveller is looking forward to migrating. Bayan ni Kabayan looks at the Neri chart.
the senate did the right thing in throwing the issue back to the surpeme court to settle the issue with finality. the senators opposed to compromised is right to think that neri will just claim e.o. when asked questions that will impicate malacanang. then what? go back to sc again to compel neri to answer same questions?
the sc should just compel neri to show up to a closed chamber hearing and hear neri’s testimony and from there decide if the testimony neri will give to the senate is a matter of national security or just to cover-up a crime.
i understand that there are a lot of legal jargons and jurisprudence involved here but common sense dictates it is prudent and proper and the right thing to do. what’s is there to loose in hearing neri’s testimony in closed chamber?
i doubt doing that and deciding with facts all heard will violate the seprations of powers between the three branches of government nor it will emasculate the executive department if the decision is arrived with all facts known.
the very bone of contention here is whether neri’s testimony will violate e.o.. then have sc justices here it for themselves and decide.
once again our senators are not calculating and rational enough in their fight against the administration. they play a game of brinkmanship…. a dangerous game where it is well suited for gamblers and not on important issues that affect the whole nation. its just unbeleivable how would they even challenge the concept of executive privilege which is an accepted element on the separation of powers. there is no one to blame but themselves for pushing things on the edge. now they have put themselves against the wall in a no win situation. i always thought that things should be done in a calm, deliberate, non partisan and rational way to prevent gridlock like what we are seeing here.
In these times of protest I think that talking about quack journalist Patricia Evangelista is timely.
Reading her columns, I see in her a glimpse of someone in the bourgeois trying to incite the proletariat.
But for what?
Social justice?
Maybe.
But why speak out inflammatorily against the prevailing social order and everything that the government represents?
She is sliding into the pit of anarchistic communism. She wants social change as she says in the column she writes on. But does she have any idea on what will happen if the government she always denounces falls? Maybe this is the right time to tag her as “ REBEL WITHOUT A CLUEâ€Â
Little that she knows, that when the flames of rebellion occurs and our government falls, she won’t be able to enjoy what she enjoys now…Starbucks Frapuccino, McDonalds Burger.
Maybe she’ll get a little thinner when she is already on a Soviet-type Gulag queing for soup , or even worse, dead ala Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Ms.Evangelista, I think is not conscious that when the governement she denounces in rallies and in paper falls, the ones who will replace it will not be the middle class or those involved in rallies.
They will be the hardline communists supported implicitly by Satur Ocampo and Prof. Randy David.
They will kill all intelligista when they descend on the mountains and subdue the cities since there’s no effective fighting force to prevent them.
Pol Pot’s Philippine Excursion.
Think again Patricia, think again before you denounce the “fascistsâ€Â, you might be dead in the hands of your “hero communistsâ€Â.
John, get a grip.
I hereby nominate ‘Anarchistic communism’ as oxymoron of the year.
The three mysterious questions Neri does not want asked: 1) whether the President followed up the NBN-ZTE project with Neri; 2) whether Neri was dictated by the President to prioritize the NBN-ZTE project; and 3) whether he was told by the President to go ahead with the project after being told of the alleged bribe offer.
A “no” in all clears the president; what’s his problem?
Ahh, the answers are yes?
Alternate questions could be:
1. who is the highest official of the land who followed up the project with you?
2. who is the highest official of the land who dictated prioritization of the project?
3. you went ahead despite knowing the defects because somebody told you to go ahead, yes or no? if yes, who told you to go ahead? if no, who do you think you are?
“Mr. Neri, did the president follow up the NBN-ZTE deal with you?”
“On advice of counsel, your honor, I refuse to answer on the grounds that it might incriminate me.”
Tapos.
sooo…. the rot is systemwide.
if this country, were a computer, shut down, cold-boot to maintenance mode, and the running of a potent antivirus program is in order. failing that, reformat and re-installation of the operating system. there could be some data loss, but at least the thing will be running again.
so where are we now?
and seeing as this country is obviously not a computer, what can be done?
of course, there are people on here and out there who see the system running just fine, despite the virus that consume so much of its resources…
PS : Patricia Evangelista is really a “REBEL WITHOUT A CLUE”
John,
What a laugh. You are probably the one who is clueless. Iho, yung proletariat doesn’t need to be incited. Matagal na nilang alam ang kawalanghiyaan ng administrasyon ni GMA. Since 2001 and 2005, public opinion surveys have stated that the majority, who are from the masses do not favor the burgis-installed GMA government. Ngayon pa kaya after ZTE?
You have it backwards. It is only now that the burgis class, is waking up. By golly, the whole burgis madla has been sleeping or have been feigning sleep since 2005.
Methinks you who I presume belongs to the same class as Ms. Evangelista are the one cowering in fear if a real revolution breaks out.
Ask yourself, who do you fear? the commies or the masses? most avowed commies are not from the proletariat, they are from the burgis class. Go figure.
“of course, there are people on here and out there who see the system running just fine, despite the virus that consume so much of its resources…) – tonio
You mean the resources are “corrupted”.
Jeg
Maybe you haven’t got a single glimpse of the works of Mikhail Bakunin or even Lenin.
Communism arising out of anarchy concept.
So, don’t call every phrase you don’t understand as Oxymoron.
Thanks.
PS : Read some more books please
Jeg,
By the way , please be more courteous in your comments on others.
In that way, you will be respected.
Thanks.
But my dear Madonna,people nowadays are confused on what they want. They want “All Resign” , that’s anarchy.
They want people to have “equality in social levels”, that’s Communism.
PEOPLE WANT FREEDOM WITHOUT RESPONSIBILITY
We’ve gone far into Demo-crazy
I would love to have a government like the Nazis had. Yeah, it’s a terror state but look at its greatness in terms of power and imagine, almost 100% have jobs back then in Germany.
Maybe that’s the answer.
Certainly, John. I hereby edit my statement to read:
John, please get a grip.
And…
‘Communism arising out of anarchy’ != ‘anarchistic communism’
Sir.
By the way, dissenters ought to be shot.That’s what we need as a people
Jeg,
I won’t stoop to your level.
I know that you are the idiotic type who can’t stand being corrected.
Thanks
Youre most welcome, Mein Fuhrer.
(I love it when some people call MLQ3′s blog an echo-chamber.)
John,
The “All Resign” call is just being mouthed by the leftists and communists. There is no factual indication that this call is gaining ground or having significant support from the public.
Equality is just as an important aspect of democracy as apparently in communist thought. The difference is how the state or government promotes or enforces equality. A liberal democratic state recognizes the rights and freedom of every individual while respecting equality for all. A communist state enforces equality by not recognizing rights, esp. property rights and freedoms.
Germany then? Good luck. MAybe you should organize a Nazi Party in the Philippines. It’s legal you know, like the communist party.
By the way Madonna will you not cower in fear if a bloody insurrection breaks out?
Think about that.
Madonna ,
Communism is illegal here in the Philippines.
Iha, magbasa ka ng batas.
@ john
not to worry. abante is being read, not inquirer.
Fascism is better than this rotten democracy we have.
Sorry my friends, but I am a professed National Socialist.
John,
Nakupo clueless! Naku dear. No political thought, including fascism or communism is illegal. The state cannot clamp down on your right to read Mao’s Little Red Book or Marx’s Das Capital.
Even in our Constitution, all political parties are legal, except those that have armed components. What is illegal is the NPA, iho, not the communist party, and its leftist arms such as AnakBayan, KMU.
Hay naku.
Maginoo,
Maybe you are the one reading Abante. Sorry, but I don’t read tabloids.
Madonna,
You are not asking me to think like a Nazi, of course its legal, but you are asking me to start a Nazi Party.
You think, the government will allow me to do that?
But medyo change topic tayo Madonna, naniniwala ka ba sa ipinaglalaban ng KMU or ng anak Bayan?
Don’t get irate ha, just a little political talk.
Wow, I am the only one who is “awaiting moderation”
Now, that’s persecution. I am not cussing anyone. I’m just saying I am a National Socialist.
What’s wrong with that?
Madonna, you are a classier person than I. When John recommended the Nazi State, I lost all interest in what he has to say.
But… like Madonna said, the state can’t clamp down on thought, and neither should we. We must instead decide whether or not a statement merits a reply.
Dear moderator :
What is wrong? Is this not a free forum?
By the way Madonna will you not cower in fear if a bloody insurrection breaks out?
Think about that.
– John
You see a bloody insurrection breaking out from the present situation, from whom, from what? I don’t. Oh yes, I will be very afraid if we are heading to a bloodbath. I hope that I will be afraid for the right reasons, not for the wrong ones.
mlq3,
re Peter Wallace
He never said that the real figure should be 4.8.
He does not dispute the 7.3 figure:
Wallace is troubled by the facts behind the figure. What he is saying that gloria should not assuming that she’s doing the right things.
Thats why his parting words were
notice he didn’t say “resign” (maybe he did elsewhere, i don’t know)
Madonna,
You know, sometimes people out there, even the ones attending the rallies, one cannot just determine kung kanino sila panig,you don’t know if they’re for the Fatherland or just for themselves.
To tell you one thing, I am disgusted the way ERAP , and CORY and others we all know stood up to condemn the government.
CORY fought against ERAP in 2001, now they are allies.
FILTHY POLITICIANS.
Do you feel the same?
mlq3,
should be
“What he is saying is that gloria should not be assuming that she’s doing the right things.”
Jeg
I am not even interested in what you want to say either.
Actually, your the one you first reacted.
Sorry my friend. “Accept thine defeat for thou hath fought with honour”
Actually Jeg, try being a National Socialist , you will learn to have pride in the Fatherland.
You will learn how to die for it.
Alam nyo kung may mga trabaho tayo wala tayo sa lintik na forum na ito.
At kung may trabaho tayo, di maghihirap ang bansa.
Lecheng gobyerno yan.
Rather than use any bloggers name in vain, I would just say that I am inclined to believe that the supreme court justices may tend to lean in favor of the president who appointed them; and I am also starting to think that supreme court decisions may change depending on who is the president.
If I am wrong, then….Very Good!
But my dear Madonna,people nowadays are confused on what they want. They want “All Resign†, that’s anarchy.-
demanding for resignation is anarchy? if having gma and her minions in the government resigned en mass is anarchy, then i’m all for that kind of anarchy. surely we can manage without gma and the rest of her evil empire.
anyway laws and constitution are being prostituted and bastardized by the arroyo administration all the time. graft and corruption goes unchecked. anarchy without the arroyos, bring it on!
yan kasi…di tinuruan ang mga sariling mag-isip independent of others!
By the way, dissenters ought to be shot.That’s what we need as a people — John
Claro, Mein Fuhrer.
What Wallace is saying is that in the equation GDP=C+I+GS+(X-I), all components are down. The increase in the GDP is accounted for by a fall in I or imports (so that (X-(-I) becomes X+I. The fall in I would be good if it is due to a new-found domestic capability to replace them such as being able to build capital equipments we used to import. This is not the case so far, so a decrease in I is accounted for by lowered demand for capital equipment, indicative of a flat growth not expansion of economic activity. That’s my reading.
Kuya,
kung sisisihin natin ang gobyerno sa pagiging jobless natin, ay kawawang Pilipinas!
John,
the default mode of Pinoys is to migrate to a first world country at the soonest time possible.
Pinoys are the first to reject JFK’s “Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country”
Separate Opinion
The Armed Forces of the President
By Isagani A. Cruz
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 19:28:00 03/01/2008
PLS.READ.
bencard, among the many things we differ on, are how particular powers should be used.
take executive privilege. it is the means by which official secrets are protected. there are many questions involved, beginning with what is an official secret, and for how long must something secret remain so. many countries have official secrets acts but we don’t. so, we must gage it on a case to case basis and the particular weight of an individual case happens to involve the trust enjoyed by the one invoking it. but the operative word is “privilege,” that is, something meant to be an exception and not the rule.
all presidents can invoke executive privilege. but some will find it harder to invoke than others. it has nothing to do with the legality of the invocation, and more with the trust enjoyed by the one invoking it. a president enjoying wide trust, even if invoking the privilege for the wrong reasons, might actually not be questioned. a president suffering from low trust can invoke the privilege correctly, but suffer public condemnation for it. ideally, a well-functioning system would find a means to determine if the privilege is being invoked correctly or not, regardless of the public standing of the president making the claim.
In a low-trust environment, it might just be that the natural systems in place to guard against the promiscuous and malicious invocation of executive privilege actually work better.
anyway, the point is this. the president has that privilege, but again, as with the saying that what is legal is not necessarily what is right, the president may have by virtue of her office certain rights but there are times when it may be impolitic for her to avail of those rights. that’s the way politics is, because public officials are subject to the pressures, fair or not, of public opinion which is rendering a continuous judgment on incumbents. history can sort out if a president got a raw deal or not from his contemporaries (as, it seems, happened twice to marcos when he denied responsibility for the plaza miranda bombing and when he announced he’d uncovered a coup attempt by enrile and co.: both times may have actually been rare instances when he was telling the truth, but on neither occassion was he believed by the public).
at a time when the president’s constituency is shrinking, because of allegations of an abduction, and perceptions of official obstruction, it would be politically wise for the president to not invoke executive privilege, even though formally speaking it’s her right to do so as often as she pleases, and leave it up to the courts to sort out the justifiable from unjustifiable claims. but to do so would offer her short-term advantages but harm her office in the long run.
as for magdiwang’s pointing to “gridlock,” i always wonder why people bring this up, when “gridlock” in the sense of clashing branches of government leading to a temporary stoppage of the political machinery, is a natural and necessary defense mechanism, like blowing a fuse. there are times when government ought to grind to a halt if one part of it is in danger of running out of control and ruining the entire mechanism. the way governments grind to a halt as a kind of self-preservation mechanism differs, it can be the americans unable to pass a budget so the bureaucracy has to go home, it could be constitutional crises and confrontations as we’ve had, it could be a national strike in europe or the sudden collapse of a government over a vote of confidence in a parliamentary system. these are necessary, and far less harmful than letting one part of government run roughshod not only over other parts of government, but the public, too.
ricelander, i think what Wallace is saying is that the decrease in I is likely because of the increase in smuggled goods which eats into legitimate imports. So unlike legitimately imported oil, smuggled Oil is not accounted for in GDP (i.e. not deducted).
well said manolo.
)
mlq3 said,
Excellent explanation Manolo, the current built in check and balance in government is the very thing preventing Gloria from attaining absolute power, that is why she is trying other ways to circumvent this; one of these is through the abuse of Executive Privilege while the other is through attempts toward Charter Change.
cvj said:
This reminds me of a tussle between the Arroyo brothers and JDV pointing fingers each accusing the other of being involved in oil smuggling. There must be something deeper in this report.
No more TGIF rallies.
Suggestion: if you’re desperate for employees to join up, make it a manic Monday. or Tuesday, when there are no deadlines.
We can can it Summer Revolution.
John,
you’re a brainwashed eltist. The equality people desire are under the law, not social or financial equality. The All-Resign move will pave te way to electoral reforms. How can you have electoral reforms eh puro taga political clan ang Congress?
Just a repeat:
COMMUNISM will never be popular and will never ontrol this country. This is a religious country and obsessively so, unlike vietnam and China.
Ooops, looks like John is playing us for fools. How anyone in this country ruled by mestizos can be a national socialist is beyond me.
ha ha, awaiting moderation cos I used the word mestizo.
or not, maybe it was fools.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Ooops, looks like John is playing us for fools. How anyone in this country ruled by mestizos can be a national socialist is beyond me.
Heads up, the powers that be are now doing the old, “there are terrorist in your ranks so for your protection you cannot attend rallies” technique again.
John, fuck you! you get that? i’ll repeat it again, fuck you! and i don’t give a damn if your feathers are ruffled by my rough language. you’re a half-baked intellectual with nowhere near the capacity to understand all those books and ideologies you mentioned.
you are the jerk without a clue!
and don’t be alarmed at a little moderation. your posts will go through once manolo approves it. it’s there to appease manolo’s mine sweeper’s flavor of the day. i’ve been moderated A LOT more than you, so just sit tight and wait for your posts to be approved.
national socialist? what crack are you on? a socialist who idolizes Hitler-led Germany? who also wants dissenters shot? did you just wake up one day, picked up some ideology books and took some terms and fancied yourself an intellectual?
go barf in the toilet and suck it all back in. you are not fit to disparage Randy David.
i can see good developments here, people are now going to the supreme court and senate for resolution. And Gloria is giving in to demands ( this is the reason why I believe she is not really that bad ) Wala na munang people power, resignation and rallies. OK? Lets allow the system to work. Dito siguro mas maganda if Observe closely how the existing system works and look for flaws. Then correct it/them through legislations…
The most interesting revelation is the clear difference in thinking between Mar Roxas and Manny Villar. I think Mar tried to seize the initiative in his ongoing battle with Villar by pushing the compromise. In that he was being shortsightedly political. Villar is beginning to look presidential. And if he succeeds in re-establishing the place of the Senate by throwing off the oppressive yoke of the Supreme Court, he will deserve it.
ricelander, i think what Wallace is saying is that the decrease in I is likely because of the increase in smuggled goods which eats into legitimate imports. So unlike legitimately imported oil, smuggled Oil is not accounted for in GDP (i.e. not deducted).
cvj, sorry I seem to have missed that but still it’s essentially just an accounting problem which we could theoretically adjust by calculating figure for smuggled oil if we want to see a more reflective figure. But note what he says next:
“Capital equipment imports, which indicates growth of business and new business being created, declined by about 14 percent in volume terms.”
Btw, i am wondering if “savings” in smuggled goods would not find its way in the other variables. Can you work it out?
Btw, i am wondering if “savings†in smuggled goods would not find its way in the other variables. Can you work it out?
CVJ
It’s like this:
Assuming my oil import would be P50M if I buy legitimately but I could get the same for P10M through smuggling so I patronize a smuggler instead. My “savings” of P40M where will it go? Unless I bury it underground or keep it in a safety deposit box inside my home, or deposit it somewhere in the Bahamas, somehow it will show up in the equation, won’t it?
Side-note: from the Alston Report (page 15)
Imports are NOT domestically produced and do not get counted into GDP.
The Senators if confident of the Impartiality of the Members of the SC, would have agreed to the Compromise, but time and time again, the Members had been voting along Party Lines, Split in the Middle and only the Chief Justice to break the deadlock. What was the use of hours and hours of oral submission, questioning and whatnot if the voting is predictable?? I think I tend to agree with DJB about the SC also needed to re-examine its role, or misrule in the total dysfunctions of Governance..
some wannabe economists have been insisting that in this forum.
“The most interesting revelation is the clear difference in thinking between Mar Roxas and Manny Villar. I think Mar tried to seize the initiative in his ongoing battle with Villar by pushing the compromise. In that he was being shortsightedly political. Villar is beginning to look presidential. And if he succeeds in re-establishing the place of the Senate by throwing off the oppressive yoke of the Supreme Court, he will deserve it.- DJB Rizalist”
======================================================
I like this, I think we should be doing more of these. start scrutinizing the presidential. They are our future any way. So we better start we better start the selection process.
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Political Analyst here was saying that one of the effective trick done by Hilary that delivers her tripple win in Ohio, Texas And Rhode Islands was the issue that Obama escape media scrutiny. While almost everything on her was scrutinize since she was a first lady , then as senator and then as Presidential nominee.
Rego, and the biggest issue today was who leaked that info about Obama posturing on NAFTA as confided to Canadians officials? He was using the issue for his campaign in Ohio where thousands lost their jobs due to NAFTA, but a Boom for Texans..Oppositions here were asking the Government to ask the RCMP to investigate who leaked the info to AP.
Voice from the past:
GOOD MOVE, BAD MOVE
By Ricardo Saludo (Asiaweek:1999)
What makes a good power move? Or a bad one? No, devils and angels have nothing to do with it. Power has one objective: to make things happen, whether good or evil. What things? Whatever the power wielder wants. So one test of a good power move is whether it had the effect it was supposed to have. At the start of Manila’s People Power Revolution in 1986, Asiaweek asked Ferdinand Marcos whether there would be a curfew. He promptly ordered one. But nobody paid attention – a clear failure of clout. Indeed, blatant flouting of Marcos’s word just accelerated the implosion of his authority.
Which brings us to a second criterion for power moves: Did it enhance or erode the wielder’s clout?
Ricardo Saludo is now Gloria’s Cabinet secretary
This talk of civil war and/or revolution is giving me the creeps. I am very scared, just like some of you here in this blog. But if it’s going to happen, there’s nothing that you or I could do about it now. The rubicon has been crossed already I suppose. And the present situations are now calling for the unthinkable.
Here are the present facts:
1. The AFP is divided
2. The House of Representative is a lapdog
3. The Supreme Court is showing its true color
4. The Executive Branch does not have the support of the people
5. The price of prime commodities is skyrocketing
6. The potential of hunger is in the horison
7. The grumbling of the populace is widespread
As it stands now, of the institutions available in a democracy, only the Senate is standing that can be relied upon by the people.
I am a person who don’t believe in superstition, or in prayer. But I am praying now that I am wrong.
Me, I dont dwell much on civil war thoughts. Its been with us ever since Marcos eh. Sometimes, people are just sowing fear, scare tactic you know which is very common in politics. Some sectors resot to that trick to get what they want. I believe that the best that we can do is to keep our composure and really be very discerning on everything that is happening.
comment lang po sa GDP,kung marapatin
tama hindi domestically produced kaya di kasali sa domestic production; Oh, what a conundrum.
Not part of GDP,but still it is in the equation for computing GDP.Hmmmm… Ayoko magmarunong pero natutiuwa ako eh.
medyo me sabit sa analysis nung “I “in one of the comments
pinaghalo ang imports sa gross investments kaya instaed of
GDP= C+I+G(X-M) naging
GDP= C+I+G(X-I)
just an observation
As far as i know, there is no such estimated figure for smuggled oil (or any smuggled item) that can be used to adjust GDP. The accounting problem is the essence of the overstatement of GDP. The following is the reason. Using the equation for GDP…
GDP=personal Consumption+capital Investment +Govt ExpenSe+(eXport-Imports)
…and your example in the next paragraph of smuggled oil.
Scenario 1: Without smuggling, the imported oil will be reflected in two places:
- personal Consumption will be 50 million (plus profit) assuming all the oil is sold in the same year.
- Imports will also reflect the 50 million.
- The net effect to GDP of the 50 million import would therefore be zero.
Scenario 2: With smuggling
- personal Consumption will be 10 million (plus profit) assuming all the oil is sold in the same year.
- Nothing will be reflected in imports.
- The net effect to GDP of the 10 million smuggled oil woiuld therefore be overstatement of GDP by 10 million.
You’re right, the 40M savings in your example will not be reflected in GDP if he keeps it in a safety deposit box, at home or deposits it in a foreign bank.
The 40M ‘savings’ will only be reflected in GDP if he spends it in something else that is produced domestically.
Just wanted to share this article from the economist. Reminds me about earlier discussions on our lack of a national brand. It’s also interesting how South East Asian countries are so much alike in terms of political-economic history and structure.
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10760174
@jeg
dammit! you beat me to identifying the first oxymoron on this thread. we can add it to mang djb’s ‘liberal fascism’.
Rego, on U.S. elections: Looks like the press honeymoon period with Obama is over.
“i can see good developments here, people are now going to the supreme court and senate for resolution.”
Rego, don’t you understand the utter stupidity of bringing everything to the Supreme court? When Congress does this, it means they are not doing their job. It means they are dragging their arses. It means they are powerless to do anything themselves.
When you go to the supreme court it is not a development. It is the exact opposite.
Carl,
Yeah read it in news yesterday too. But I still wanted to see more proof that that is happening. maybe at elast week.
Its really a very very interesting contest. I was never into US politics before as I thought I was just here to make money and travel around. But this Clinton-Obam contest is drawing me much into it before. Taking so much of my time but Im very happy to learn a lot about their politics though.
Another observation, hindi ko kasi maturuan ang sarili na mag isip independent of others…
One says he is a self professed national socialist,yet is asking us to ponder about bloodbath,correct me if I am wrong is it not being a national socialwachamacolit is synonymous to being a neo-nazi?????
define national socialsim,please enlighten me.Or please give me a clue.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
another on the gdp equation using the oil example.
That example is only good in the world where the produce is either smuggled or unsmuggled oil.
When we talk of gross, combined na yan o consolidated o halos lahat na ng cponsiderations nacapture na.
For the sake of discusion siguro pwede.
pero consider this too. Di ba ngayon halos lahat ng economy big or small ay Exporting using components they import.
Yes even China, Kaya even the mighty China is not immuned from the uS recession. Because their exports are also import driven yari din sila,matitikman din nila kahit saglit ang epekto.
Since we imported less and smuggled more,one thing happened some of the smuggled goods if you can include pirated dvds to those helped drive consumption too.
Thgat equation is not a simple balancing act by concentrating only on one factor.
Baka me magsabi na di kasali ang oFW dollars sa pag compute ng GDP o sige na tama ka na pero hanggang ngayon ito pa din ang driver ng consumption dito, whether we like it or not.Until when this will happen,ewan natin.
On government spending,it may be big pero kung puro overpriced at disadvantageous spending din naman ,mataas nga gdp,para saan pa.
We need to spend on education (kaya siguro me cyber ed) and infreastructure(kaya siguro me zte)
On investments,same thing kung puro hot money lang din e di temporary permanent yan.
Now on exports, again it is import driven, at least most of them are.
Now,it does not matter what our GDP rate is,it is not based on policy making anyways.Good morning!
Brian,
You over read my comments read it back pls.
mlq3, i agree with your observation that necessarily, there are times when a president CORRECTLY invokes executive privilege but since he/she is unpopular, the invocation is assailed. conversely, a president may unjustly and incorrectly claim executive privilege but because he/she is so loved and trusted by the public – that come hell or high water and whatever she wants to do, she can do no wrong. this is exactly why the “rule of law” is essential in every democratic society. in the event of controversy, the law, as determined by appropriately empowered authorities, i.e., the sc, will ultimately decide what is legal and proper and what is not. the “public” on one hand, and the president on the other, can choose to disregard the law at their own peril, e.g., anarchy or rule of force.
in the particular case of pgma, i’m certain that she is aware that her political enemies (and part of the population that her enemies were able to bring to their side) do not approve of her invoking the privilege. as if she was not hated already, she would be hated even more. but it’s really not about her. it’s about the office of the presidency whose sphere of authority she has an obligation to protect and preserve, with all means at her command, for all the future presidents coming after her. unlike you, i don’t believe her action would do her office any harm. on the contrary, i think she is strengthening it. as i see it, pgma is in a unique position of exercising political will unhampered by considerations of winning a re-election. i think that her only immediate concern is how she will be judged by history and that she would not do anything, if she could help it, to undermine that judgment.
speaking of “gridlock”, i think we need a little more statesmanship among our senators rather than brinkmanship. let’s not kid ourselves as to their real motives – the “discovery” of a smoking gun with which to nail the president. and they will risk an unnecessary constitutional crisis, or political gridlock, to persist in that nebulous quest.
@rego – i just asked pilipinoparin in the other thread why asian-americans, inluding fil-ams, are supporting clinton instead of obama. wouldn’t obama do more or at least be more sympathetic to your immigrant causes there in the u.s. makes me wonder?
i think we need a little more statesmanship among our senators rather than brinkmanship. let’s not kid ourselves as to their real motives – bencard
some senators will push to the edge but not near enough to try to weaken the constitutional successor vp noli, if he doesn’t commit to their cause, or destroy the chances of anybody chosen by gma.
Bert: “As it stands now, of the institutions available in a democracy, only the Senate is standing that can be relied upon by the people.”
Maybe just one of the few remaining ones. Most have already been destroyed since 2001. For me, the Senate (despite its own failings) is doing its mandated job as part of the mechanism for check and balance.
Without it, the whole system is like a living hell. No wonder some would like to see it abolished. It’s probably the last bastion of opposition voice to a calloused, greedy, power-obsessed megalomaniac govt under this pretentious lady.
speaking of “gridlockâ€Â, i think we need a little more statesmanship among our senators rather than brinkmanship. let’s not kid ourselves as to their real motives – the “discovery†of a smoking gun with which to nail the president. and they will risk an unnecessary constitutional crisis, or political gridlock, to persist in that nebulous quest.
=========================================================
sooooooooooo true, bencard!!!!!!!
maginoo,
‘i just asked pilipinoparin in the other thread why asian-americans, inluding fil-ams, are supporting clinton instead of obama. wouldn’t obama do more or at least be more sympathetic to your immigrant causes there in the u.s. makes me wonder?’
Experience is the main issue not immigration. Immigration is just a side show not the main event.
maginoo: Asian-am’s preference for Hillary versus Obama.
(1) I doubt that Koreans (and Asian “yellow’s”) have already forgotten that blacks torched their businesses when blacks rioted against the whites during the “Rodney King”/Can’t-we-all-get-along incident. (2) Victimization-cum-Entitlement”/”the-world-owes-us” is something that Latinos, Asian and even African immigrants may not be able to relate to, and Obama-the-Democrat may appear to be from this thinking versus Colin-Powell-the-Republican. (3) Clinton is much better known to the Asian-am community.
Another fiery movie, coming up!!!!
———————-
FITNA, by Wilders
AMSTERDAM (Reuters March 6, 2008) – The Netherlands is to raise its national risk level of a terrorist attack to “substantial,” partly due to a new film made by a politician that is expected to be critical of the Koran, media reported on Thursday. The justice minister is expected to send parliament an updated threat assessment later in the day, also citing a heightened terrorism threat level around the world, unnamed cabinet sources told ANP news agency.
The level had been at “substantial” before as religious and racial tensions simmered after an Islamic militant killed director Theo Van Gogh in 2004 over a separate film he made accusing Islam of condoning violence against women.
The Dutch government has warned the latest film, expected to be released this month by right-wing politician Geert Wilders, might spark unrest and economic sanctions similar to the reaction seen after Danish newspapers published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed in 2006.
Wilders has given few details about the film he is calling “Fitna,” an Arabic term used in the Koran and sometimes translated as “strife.” He has called the Koran a “fascist” book that incites violence and said it should be banned.
. . .
No Dutch broadcaster wants to show the new film, the Volkskrant newspaper reported on Thursday, meaning Wilders will probably launch it on the Internet and at a news conference in The Hague, tentatively scheduled for March 28, ANP reported.
A majority of Dutch people want the film to be broadcast even though they fear it will stoke tension with Muslims and harm relations with Arab nations, a poll showed on Wednesday.
Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen met ambassadors from Muslim countries on Wednesday to discuss the film and stress that the government did not share Wilders’ views. He asked them to make sure that Dutch citizens and buildings abroad are protected.
…
maginoo,
Im not really as supporter of clinton. to me either candidate is good for me. I cannot voter here yet you know becuase im not a citizen yet ( and dont have plan to apply for citizenship so far)
I just like that comeback thing that Hilary just did last week. That liking has nothing to with my being a Filipino or asian.
As far as immigration, I believe both are pro legalization of elligal immigrants. So it really doesn’t matter much who got teh nomiations.
Actually I find their platform almost the same. And that could be one of the reason why people is having difficulty on deciding whom to vote. I said it before, that if I were to vote, I will vote for Hilary this year and vote for Barrack after 8 years. Hilary is already 61 so this is her last chance, while Obama is only 42 so 8 years from now he will 50. He willbe very much prepared for president.
Regarding the change thing that Obama is talking about in the campaign. I dont think he will be able to turn around America that radically. Just like Pilipinoparin, I believe its more like rhetorics.
I believe the most practical approach is to use Hilary first. Do her kind of change and get Obama later to improve whatever change she has implemented.
That way they both make history and Americans got to experince a woman president and a black president ina span of 16 years
As far as immigartion, I think both of them has
the senate did the right thing. indeed, it will set a precedent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
countdown continues… DAY 8
Kung experience din lang aang kulang ke Obama…
kung di makuha ni obama nomination ;to gain that experience kailangan tanggapin nya ang VP kung ioffer sa kanya.
Another issue here is the economy, thanks to the advisers of Clinton to highlight the problem of the economy,by coaching Clinton to remark that It’s the economy,stupid!
Itong problema na ito,sa tingin nila Hilary would be the one to lift them out of the pits.
Tama po ba mga Fil-am na kapatid?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On brinkmanship.
May I ask that how can,just allowing the SC to decide with finality lead to the brink of disaster?para naman sana,me Pinoy Jurisprudence naman tayong pagbabasihan di na lang palagi yung Nixon scenario.
teka di ba dati brinkmanship at satemanship sa diplomatic environment lang,ngayon obviously hindi na ganun ang kaso tulad ng gridlock dati sa traffic lang.
My, my, the admin guys have suddenly gone from Siraulo Crazy Mailed Fist Stance to an Angelic Harp Appeal. But from the experiences we had in the years of lying, story-spinning, repression, abuses and other nefarious deeds, we will not be deceived this time around. There are at the very least 53 issues to be answered many of them having multiple sub-issues: bayanikabayan.blogspot.com/2008/02/blogswarmers-of-our-race-unite-gloria.html (dated Feb. 24, 2008)
RP Economic Growth a Pipe Dream?
Here’s something from oblivious leisure time patriots and callous ex-Filipinos-turned-brown-primates…
ASIAN DEVELOPMENT BANK
http://www.adb.org/Documents/Books/Philippines-Critical-Dev-Constraints/critical-dev-constraints.pdf
And here’s more:
—————–
ADB: RP growth among most inequitable in region
by Anthony Ian Cruz
The Arroyo administration’s much-touted “highest economic growth†is “among the most inequitable†in the region, according to a new report of the Asian Development Bank which also said government corruption continues to hamper development in the country.
In an 83-page study “Philippines: Critical Development Constraints,†the ADB downplayed Malacañang’s declarations of an economic take-off, saying that “while growth has picked up in recent years, with the economy in 2007 posting its highest growth of 7.3 percent in the last three decades, both public and private investment remain sluggish and their share in gross domestic product has continued to decline, raising the question of whether the current economic momentum can be sustained.â€Â
“In per capita terms, the growth was even less favorable,†said the ADB, pointing out from 1961-2006, “per capita gross GDP grew 1.4 percent annually compared with 3.6 percent in Indonesia, 3.9 percent in Malaysia, and 4.5 percent in Thailand.â€Â
The low per capita GDP growth has resulted in a slow pace of poverty reduction and high income inequality.
The government yesterday reported that 26.9 percent of families in 2006 were below the official poverty threshold.
“In 2003, about 25 percent of Philippine families and 30 percent of the population were deemed poor and, in 2006, the Gini coefficient of per capita income – at slightly over 0.45 – was among the highest in Southeast Asia,†said the ADB.
The Gini coefficient measures inequality of income or wealth distribution.
The ADB study also said corruption and governance issues are among the biggest stumbling blocks to attaining long-term and equitable growth.
“Poor performance on key governance aspects, in particular, control of corruption and political stability, has eroded investor confidence,†the ADB said citing several international studies and surveys suggesting that “the Philippines’ ranking in the control of corruption and maintaining political stability has worsened.â€Â
According to the ADB, “the Philippines has scored lowest among countries with similar per capita GDP levels on control of corruption and political stability since 1996, and on rule of law since 2002.â€Â
STABILITY SLIPPING
The country has also “lost momentum in controlling corruption, and has allowed Vietnam and fairly soon, Indonesia, to pass it. In the case of political stability, the Philippines has slipped, particularly relative to the 1998 level,†the ADB added.
The ADB explained that political problems comparable to the 1980s, which caused a decline in foreign direct investments, have not disappeared “in sharp contrast to surges in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Thailand†that have cleaned up their governments and instituted reform measures.
The report said “instability was manifested in a number of political events in 2000, 2005-2006, and 2007 that sorely tested constitutional processes.â€Â
“The perception of worsening corruption was found to partly explain the low investment rate in the Philippines. Poor governance was also found to translate into higher lending rates, reflective of premiums for worsening corruption, political instability, and internal conflict, acting as disincentives to private investment. A key reason for weak revenue generation – leakages in revenue collection – is rooted in persistent corruption and patronage problems,†said the report.
The report argues that governance concerns underline other critical constraints. For instance, corruption undermines tax collection and reduces resources for infrastructure development.
“Similarly, the political instability hinders investment and growth and reduces the tax base,†said the report.
TIGHT FISCAL SITUATION
The country’s fiscal situation also “remains tight despite the government making good progress to reduce deficits and aims to balance its budget in 2008.â€Â
“It said that much of the reduction in fiscal deficit has been driven by deep cuts in spending on social and economic services and sale of government assets,†said the report.
The ADB also noted “declining public and private sector investments in infrastructure†which has led to “inadequate and poor infrastructure and bottlenecks†that raised the cost of doing business in the country and eroded the competitiveness and attractiveness to both foreign and local investors.
“Per capita paved road length for the Philippines is roughly one-sixth that of Thailand and one-fourth of Malaysia,†said the report.
Poor infrastructure and weak investor confidence have led to weak flows of foreign direct investment (FDI), the report said pointing out that the Philippines only got FDIs worth $1.1 billion in 2001-2006, compared with $6.1 billion for Thailand and $3.9 billion for Malaysia.
It said the country’s lower FDI “partly explains a smaller and narrower industrial base compared to its neighbors whose share of manufacturing in GDP is 34.8 percent in Thailand and 30.6 percent in Malaysia. The Philippines’ record is 23.5 percent.
IMPACT ON POVERTY
In a statement, ADB chief economist Ifzal Ali said “targeting and removal of the most critical constraints will lead to the highest returns for the country. It will spur investment, which in turn will lead to sustained and high growth and create more productive employment opportunities.â€Â
“This would ensure that the fruits of development are shared by all,†Ali added.
The United Opposition said government figures showing an increase in the number of poor Filipinos is the best argument for President Arroyo to resign.
“Her misplaced economic policies and the massive corruption have led us to this situation,†said UNO president and Makati Mayor Jejomar Binay.
He said Arroyo has consistently justified her stay in power by citing the supposed gains in the economy under her term.
“Now that government figures show that she has failed to improve the lot of million of Filipinos, and has in fact increased the number of poor Filipinos, it’s time for her to go,†he said.
The National Statistical Coordinating Board said Tuesday that poverty incidence in the Philippines worsened to 32.9 percent in 2006 from 30 percent in 2003.
ONLY ARROYO ALLIES
Binay said the only ones benefiting are Arroyo cronies and business associates, and political allies “who make millions in kickbacks and juicy government contracts.â€Â
Sen. Mar Roxas bewailed the rising incidence of poverty from 2003 to 2006 as reported by the NSCB.
He said this only shows government is busy covering up anomalies and neglecting its duty to provide relief for the public in the midst of rising prices of oil and other commodities.
The NCSB figures, he said, clearly showed a disconnect between the financial markets and the grassroots economy, and a widening gap between rich and poor. From 4 million poor families in 2003, this went up to 4.7 million in 2006.
The National Economic and Development Authority on Wednesday said poverty worsened because of increasing prices of commodities and the insufficient income of the citizenry, with “external factors†like high oil prices playing a role.
good morning barangay butlug
there is no end to these lip and text services, its been years since last election and you’re still here dicussing the same single issue- ouster of a sitting president..
shrinking constituency? maybe in imperial manila(its not RP), stoppage of political machinery? not quite, only if you watch ANC
maybe this barangay uses something different.. no more rallies, no more senate investigations, no high falutin’ political discussions, no quick fixes, look for long term reforms
and Ms Pamintuan’s column says use the money trail stupid(mine)…use all your resources, networking doing this rather than facing your laptops for hours after hours on endless discussions
excerpts..
When the supposed fountain of truth turns out to be dry, what do we do?
Senators  or interested parties  can put together teams of capable, dedicated and hardworking lawyers and financial experts who can uncover the money trail. That trail can be more incriminating than the truth as told by witnesses, some of whom have dubious credentials.
There is no substitute for painstaking hard work; there are no quick fixes here. Solid evidence must be dug up, to pin down those who have salted away wealth amassed illegally. That wealth must be confiscated and the guilty punished.
There must be Filipinos out there who are still fired by idealism and a desire for long-term reforms, who will go beyond Senate testimonies to produce the evidence that will pin down the guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
Seminars given :
1) Soap Making
2) Hair Dressing
3) Post Mortem Cosmetology
4) Pedicure, Manicure, Alot*
5) Astrology 101: Madam Auring Divination Techniques
*alot – bisaya for gupit
Inggit lang kayo?!
bago sana nag expose’ si lozada, ito sana ang kanyang ginawa. he should have painstakingly collected concrete evidence. kayang kaya niya kasi insider siya. sayang, mapupunta na naman sa wala. di mo malaman tuloy if he’s a parrot or a patriot. sila-sila nag ka onsehan?
There must be Filipinos out there who are still fired by idealism and a desire for long-term reforms, who will go beyond Senate testimonies to produce the evidence that will pin down the guilty beyond reasonable doubt. – James
I couldn’t agree with you more…
There was a huge 10,000 strong rally in the Visayas in Bacolod calling for the resignation of Gloria Arroyo. Does that make it the decision of Imperial Bacolod as well?
Better read the above ADB report since it also affects Imperial Visayas and Imperial Mindanao as well.
parang nasa ellensville na tayo ah.
DinaPinoy,
What did Chavit Singson say when he was asked for evidence? “Ebidensiya? Ako!” Tit-for-tat…
DinaPinoy,
This is the blogosphere, ika nga “no barriers.”
Don’t believe in the “Imperial Manila” bs, I grew up in Cebu and my parents are in Mindanao, if you talk to the people there there’s no such thing – a different story if you talk to governors and mayors of course…
Oops 9:00 na pala…till we meet again…
ramrod,
we still need a clarissa ocampo – with concrete evidence as in a SIGNATURE in a DOCUMENT.
DinaPinoy,
Re Clarissa Ocampo, true, I’m still crossing my fingers though…
ramrod,
i should say i prefer a clarissa ocampo…
mlq3, the impasse we have now is due to the senates inability to focus on what is important. they are easily sidetrack by inanities. a lot of the aid to legislations investigation has not arrive to any definite conclusions. the lack of closure is contributing to the general cynicism of the population hindering and stalling our development.
ramrod,
ingat lang. kailangan din natin ang ‘playground’ na pleasant. tingnan mo ang ibang blogs. sa kabila walang advertisers kasi walang tao.
Very promising indeed. It’s all up to the ordinary folks. If they stop patronising the half-truths of the usual circus promoters:
- the Philippine Media;
- various relics of ‘people power’ thinking; and,
- leaders of organised religion.
These are people and organisations who’s power is underpinned by ignoramus thinking.
If Pinoys can rise to the challenge of becoming an independent-thinking, critical-thinking, and fee-thinking SECULAR society and extricate themselves from the mind games of these medieval relics, only then can we truly progress as a society.
Interestingly enough, the path to true reconciliation and establishment of that New Order that failed to materialise in 1986 (and severely disillusioned Edsa 1 “heroes” such as Jim Paredes) is legal closure.
This cannot be achieved by street circuses and can only be achieved by following a process specifically designed to resolve stuff.
“Seminars given :
1) Soap Making
2) Hair Dressing
3) Post Mortem Cosmetology
4) Pedicure, Manicure, Alot*
5) Astrology 101: Madam Auring Divination Techniques
*alot – bisaya for gupit”
ramrod, nagpakita ka na naman ng “personality flaw” mo – discriminatory yang reply mo kay CaT, alam mo ba yon? sabihin mong “personality flaw” ulit yan…
character flaw na ang tawag dyan…
ramrod,
talk to me! hehe. seriously, hint is staring you in the face. ordinary people don’t give a hoot about manila. governors and mayors experience the power relationships first hand, that’s why.
Mita,
I’ve known The Cat longer that you have, she has no insecurities, that will not bother her at all. Ask her.
Anyway, baka masita na naman ako…bye…
Mita,
The invitation is still on. Coffee, EDSA Shang, 2:30PM this afternoon. Be there or be square…
governors and mayors experience the power relationships first hand, that’s why. – mindanaoan
so true. by the way, to be grammatically correct (bisaya) it should be mindanaon pronounced “mindanawon.”
Rego, I dont care if you vote for Obama, or Clinton, or McCain. All I care about it, did you vote for Ramiele?
Before we criticize the government, let us first ask ourselves if we are really doing something for our country?
NORTH RAIL PROJECT :
Three years after loan lpproval and millions spent…what is the status report?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XicRsf24Y3o
Ramiele is great, reminds me of old-school singer we had here like Imelda Papin (hope name is spelt right). Great singer with none of the vocal hysterics of Jaya, etc.
Andrew,
Check out North Rail video above, enjoy paying for it, if you are paying taxes, that is…
Jeg :
Rego, I dont care if you vote for Obama, or Clinton, or McCain. All I care about it, did you vote for Ramiele?
=======================================================
Of course Jeg, more 10 times yata ako bomoto kagabi. She is the Top 12. katatapos lang ia announce. Pero ang bet talaga namin dito sa bahay is David Archuleta. I would love to see these two fighting out in the final 2.
“Before we criticize the government, let us first ask ourselves if we are really doing something for our country” tanong ni Andrew:
ki klaseng tanong ito? Ang isang mamayan na habang araw, araw namumuhay nang Mahusay, di Nagnanakaw nang Ari nang Ibang Tao, di nangdaya sa Eleksyon, di nagsinuggaling at kong nagkamali man ay handa Aminim ang pagkasala at handa rin bumitiw nang Puwesto kong siya ay mayroon kinaukolan at handang rin bayaran ang kanyang pagkamali ay isang mamayan gumagawa Para sa Kabutihan Nang kanyang Bansa…
People Power has lost its functionality. – blackshama
People Power is liberal fascism. – DJB
There may be as many critiques of People Power as there are advocates.
As an advocate, what I see as one basis of People Power is the idea that the people collectively establish governments that may rule over people individually; and individuals agree to such an arrangement to be ruled, by obeying laws promulgated by the government as long as the government so established protects the people’s rights.
Hence, if the government abuses its powers or ignores the limitations the people impose on those powers, and existing curative or rectifying process is unavailing owing to the very same abuse of power or misuse of privileges, then the collectivity can empower itself to remove the abusive and unjust government and enter into a new arrangement. The new arrangement may hold on to revere deep-held values or break new paths. No matter.
In a democracy, the wisdom (or folly) of exercising People Power is not subject to any higher authority than the people themselves (a “political question†in the sphere of Constitutional Law). And the fact that only an intense few dare to actualize the manifestation of the power does not militate against the collective sense of the exercise. For a collective decision require neither a perfect unanimity nor even a numerical majority supposedly determined in the ordinary course in an open tally sheet (as in a plebiscite or a recall process.)
When the government itself ignores or flouts the “rules of the game†under the agreed upon arrangement, such rules as those pertaining to certain essential safeguards ensuring for instance that governmental powers will not be concentrated in one agency or person, collective decision only requires a morally informed consensus among the people, as the principal, on the expediency of exercising People Power. One important caveat however: to be legitimate, the underlying reason behind the consensus ought to get to a continuum deep and wide enough to overpower competing choices including one that may press on to conserve the existing arrangement.
Once a successful People Power is acquiesced in by the people, a new covenant is thereby established which sets into motion the democratic cycle anew.
I mean …. “For a collective decision REQUIRES neither a perfect unanimity nor even a numerical majority . . .”
To DevilsAdvc8 :
Well you are an asshole who fucks your mother and eats your own and your dog’s shit!
Go to hell with Satan you Son of the Devil!
Eat your hearts out with all the bullshit you are saying.
Fuck you!
I tried to be courteous here but I didn’t expect someone claiming to be an intellectual ( maybe a monkey)
like you cussing me because of my beliefs.
So I’ll play your game. Fuck you!
GUYS, WE NEED YOUR HELP!!!
http://www.worldvision.org.ph/
Jeg,
Andito na naman si John. Kahapon pa iyan ah. medyo mainit pagtatalo ninyo ni Madonna and you with him.
Anu ba masasabi mo diyan?
bencard, appreciate your thoughts. will respond in a day or two. am firming up my thoughts based on a long discussion last night with a friend who is a solid defender of the president. my view is that she has summoned up the vast reservoirs of authority of her office but in so doing is making it impossible for any successor to govern with firmness ever again.
Andrew,
Huwag mo na lang pansinin. Let him exhaust himself, mapapagod din yan…
Andrew, libre naman pumasyal dito ang kahit sino. Tsaka hindi ako nainitan. Wala naman nangyaring pagtatalo, kasi nga diba sabi ko hindi ako interesado? Mas accommodating lang talaga siguro sa akin si Ms. Madonna kasi mabuti siyang tao kaya pinaunlakan niya si Herr John.
Sieg Heil
dinapinoy, that’s it. now people are zeroing on what those documents might be and where they are: which is why documenbts are being declared lost and missing, why executive privilege is being invoked to block the release of documents, why other documents such as the oil exploration deal on the spratleys were not announced to the public, why the receipt for the 500k that gaite prepared served to firm up how anomalous that transaction was…
the paper trail and money trail is out there, but it’s taken this long for it to start surfacing and more importantly, for the public to start sensing it’s out there and being actively supressed.
in the end whether before 2010 or after it ends in one thing: gma goes to jail with no pardon this time.
Meron nang magandang ka-duelo dito si COLDKING, bagay silang mag bunong braso.
magdiwang they don’t have to lead to conclusions though better if they did. the activity of engaging in oversight is trmendously important, vital, even. and it’s done it’s share on whatever legislation the palace claims is important.
mlq3 said,
That is assuming she’ll go quietly.
in the end whether before 2010 or after it ends in one thing: gma goes to jail with no pardon this time.
This was what I was suggesting ever since the Garci thing for her own good (and not necessarily ours): Gloria makes a deal with Noli now.
mlq3,
You’re right. Hope your prediction comes true.
When all this probe comes to full circle, those traces of high crimes will finally surface. In the end, the Gaite “personal money” would end up with a voucher (a TO or cash advance perhaps?), another copy of the Spratly agreement will turn up somewhere, etc.
Unless they are cleverly destroyed, tampered with or completely made “missing.” This is how some offices (e.g., Public Works) covered up their messy trails, they burned down the whole building so there would be no smoking guns.
Questions: Can’t a high body (SC or Senate) summon these documents (as it did to Nixon)? How can an executive privilege be an excuse for covering such crimes as high as “sellout” and “bribery”? Amazing!
A couple of years ago, I had the chance to analyze Senate v. Ermita in re Section 21 and Section 22 of Article VI of the Constitution as follows.
The power of inquiry provided under Section 21 of Article VI is just one specific source of the totality of the congressional oversight authority [other sources include a) the power to reorganize the government bureaucracy, including the executive and judicial agencies, b) the power of taxation, c) the power of appropriation, d) the power of impeachment, e) the power of confirmation, f) the power to declare war, and g) the power to raise and support the armed forces]. In this case, the power of inquiry is employed as a tool to carry out the oversight function just as the subpoena and contempt powers are availed of as mechanisms ancillary to the same function. It is not therefore correct to suggest that the oversight power is of lesser consequence than the power of inquiry.
Section 22 of the same Article VI is one other source of the oversight authority of Congress. The Supreme Court in the Senate v. Ermita, adopting the characterization of then constitutional commissioner and chairman of the Legislative Committee Hilario Davide, calls Section 22 as the provision on “Question Hourâ€Â. Such interpretation is not mistaken except that this section, it should be noted, underscores more the interdependence of the two political branches of the government than their separation (hence, its rather non-obligatory or “discretionary†nature by contrast with Section 21). The same section acknowledges the privilege of the heads of the executive departments to appear, with the consent of the President, and be heard by Congress on matters pertaining to their departments (as, for example, in a request by a department head for enhanced powers or greater funding for his department).
In the overall scheme of the oversight function of Congress, Sections 21 and 22 of Article VI are not only complementary but, to borrow Davide’s words, “very, very essential†to each other.
In my humble opinion, in the light of the constitutional conception and overriding reach of congressional oversight, the Supreme Court lacks firm grounding in the following explanation it has provided in the said Senate v.Ermita case:
Sections 21 and 22, therefore, while closely related and complementary to each other, should not be considered as pertaining to the same power of Congress. One specifically relates to the power to conduct inquiries in aid of legislation, the aim of which is to elicit information that may be used for legislation, while the other pertains to the power to conduct a question hour, the objective of which is to obtain information in pursuit of Congress’ oversight function.
When Congress merely seeks to be informed on how department heads are implementing the statutes which it has issued, its right to such information is not as imperative as that of the President to whom, as Chief Executive, such department heads must give a report of their performance as a matter of duty. In such instances, Section 22, in keeping with the separation of powers, states that Congress may only request their appearance.
Nonetheless, when the inquiry in which Congress requires their appearance is “in aid of legislation†under Section 21, the appearance is mandatory for the same reasons stated in Arnault.
Policymaking on the part of Congress is well-nigh plenary. It is then axiomatic that the presumption of acting responsibly and constitutionally is strongly in its committees’ favor precisely because of the equivalent breadth of the oversight function in the policymaking process. This function preponderates over against the possible invocation of the so-called “executive privilege†– one that has yet to find expression in the explicit language of the Constitution.
Very clearly, executive privilege can only be invoked by way of exception. So when the executive officials fail to show that the privilege is “of such high degree as to outweigh the public interest,†as Senate v.Ermita ruling describes it, in the disclosure of the supposedly privileged information, congressional oversight, as a general rule, will trump an appeal to the supposed privilege. In that event, contumacious defiance and refusal to disclose the information sought or needed by Congress for legislative purposes renders the withholding official liable to its contempt process and the attendant punitive measures. Indeed, Congress, acting through its committees, need not rely upon the all-too-measured judicial pace to exercise the ultimate power of oversight and thereupon employ the necessary enforcement tools.
I did mock the Senate then when it dashed to the SC like a cry baby complaining about EC 424, this way:
Now, given that “in republican government, the legislative authority necessarily predominates†(James Madison, Federalist No. 51), one wonders why the congressional committees easily backed off (unless of course the committee members have been clueless what’s in their wallet) when President Arroyo upon a claim of executive privilege issued Executive Order 424 and the Senate itself immediately repaired to the Supreme Court to complain as if its subpoena and contempt powers were suddenly whisked away by the order like candy bars snatched by a “schoolyard bully.â€Â
Today, I applaud the senators who voted to reject the compromise offered by the SC. They seem to know what’s in their wallet now!
@mlq3
Thanks for the pingback ^_^
I hope I made sense with the post. I was going for a simple recap since blogging about the Lozada issue is… rather hard for me, given the unfortunate position of the information I have and my own personal experiences putting me at cross purposes with the current “norm”, that is, being anti-Gloria.
@ John
Mmm… interesting. A self-proclaimed neo-nazi.
As a card-carrying member of the Liberal Party, I am… constrained by my ideological beliefs to respect your opinions and your choice. Dyan ka masaya eh.
But, forgive me if I find something wrong with an ideology that managed to justify the deaths of more than 6 million people. And forgive me if I also find something wrong with alleged prosperity that comes at the cost of my humanity and individuality being under someone else’s jackboot.
And have you BEEN to a bloodbath, my friend, to so easily call for one?
Which also goes for all of those who so easily invoke the gods of revolution whenever government fails. I will ask you the same thing I did to the young activists of today in my blog post: its easy to tear down, but will you stay and sacrifice for the rebuilding necessary to make things better?
It’s easy to scream in the streets for “reform”, for “pagbabago”, and quite another thing to actually go about effectively addressing the issues, to bringing about this “change” that won’t just be another round of musical chairs.
Presidents and other national leaders can be removed in an evening or three, but the rebuilding that follows will take years, long, oftentimes frustrating, years. Sometimes even a whole lifetime may not be enough to do it.
Especially when the corruption and impunity you rail against is not only centered around a particular person or two, but is also systemic and cultural in nature.
@ kabayan
agree, with machevallian advisers like saludo and generals as coterie.
btw, mlq3 – she looks real mean in the picture on top. it wasn’t altered right?
the next government should make the guilty accountable for all their crimes and atrocities committed against the entire filipino nation.
that will be the greatest test for whoever takes over after gma. applying the full force of our laws and appropriate punishment. it should be done without any prejudice and bias.
same laws they prostutited and bastardize to no end will be used to punish the guilty.
Just to reinforce my point above (at 11:40 pm), here’s how the NSCB gets its data on imports that go into the GDP figure (as a deduction).
http://www.census.gov.ph/data/technotes/notefts.html
Smuggled goods have no such documents. So if we have an estimate of the level of smuggling, then we would have an idea by how much GDP is overstated.
istambay_sakalye,
Hmmm, with Noli? I wonder.
It is trueâ€â€politics is not exactly the best site to look for the truth. But then, neither is the justice system a privileged site for finding the truth. Indeed, a refrain we often hear from lawyers is that not all truths are admissible in court. It is clever for Malacañang to argue that the proper resolution of the ZTE-NBN controversy rests exclusively with the courts. Treating it as a purely legal matter is a way of suppressing the many other faces of truth.– prof. randy david
Public Lives
A big year for verity
By Randy David
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:22:00 03/01/2008
What is at stake here is not just the legality or illegality of a contract. More than this, what is at stake is the power of citizens to hold their leaders accountable for decisions that are made in their name. Have these leaders been transparent and faithful to their oath of office? Or have they misused the powers and prerogatives entrusted to them? Such questions are decided not in court or in church but in the public sphere of politics, not by judges or prelates, but by a nation’s citizens.
We should wait for the next elections then, they tell us. Under normal circumstances, we should indeed. But if the electoral mechanism itself has been rigged and brazenly abused by the present leadership, shouldn’t the first step be to repair this vital mechanism of democracy and restore its legitimacy? This brings us to the key question: Do we still believe this is possible under Ms Arroyo? The truth has caught up with us. It is time to face it.– prof. randy david/pdi
Today’s joke: No money? You are invited to the Gaite Lending Co. No interest on all “awa†[mercy] loans. Limited documentation; they deliver the money right to your doorstep. They also do package tours to Hong Kong and London on short notice. Airport tarmac pickup available on request.—neal cruz/ pdi
ahaha. i got a rise out of the jerk. so how does it feel to be provoked john? is it hot in the pits of hell? well, now that i’ve got your attention, i will tone down and become civil (no matter how hard that is with you) *sigh*
so here i am, a monkey, debating with a self-proclaimed intellectual. i hope you can throw me a banana or two while i coast through the salient points of your posts. here are some of your more memorable phrases (and they were funny, too!)
“pit of anarchistic communism”
Do you know that in its purest sense, anarchy means an “absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere?” Anarchy is not synonymous with an absence of “rules or laws,” though that is what its colloquial term has now evolved to. Purist anarchists abhor governments (or any form of authority that imposes obedience) but does not refuse the need for laws. the difference is that purist anarchists don’t want laws to be enforced by any individual or group, but would rather want that the laws be self-imposing. what does this mean? that the force of laws must come from an individual’s own sense of conscience, without the need of being compelled to follow it. in its highest form, anarchists trusts in the innate goodness of man to believe that anarchy will work.
So how did your phrase become funny? Well, communism is defined as “a form of government which attempts to empower workers and eliminate social class. Its socioeconomic structure promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.” In essence, anarchists wouldn’t want communism as well as that is the exact opposite of what it wants. state power!
That’s point one of being oxymoronic. What made it more funnier was for a person to bash this ideology when he proclaims himself to be a nationalist socialist.
Here is the follow-up definition as taken from wikipedia: “communism is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of theorists of the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution.”
and as if that wasn’t enough for a self-proclaimed socialist, here is what Karl Marx had to say:
“socialism would be the socioeconomic system that arises after the proletarian revolution, in which the means of production are owned collectively. This society would then progress into communism.”
Haha. Socialism’s goal is to progress into communism. John, I think you should get pointers from Randy David and Satur Ocampo, whom you call hardline communists, and ask them how to attain “higher socialism.”
now, i can finally say with conviction and utter civility
fuck you – from a monkey to an intellectual
Yes CVJ that is how the NSO compiles its data.
I have been a witness to this,since I used to work for a port opearator ;and I also used to get the import data from customs as well ,for that particular port operator.
What they get is the electronic manfests, at minsan o mas madalas di nila nakakacapture lahat kaya minsan di rin accurate.
About some smuggled goods having no documentation, actually most of them have yun, nga lang puro misdeclarations at madami din tayong technical smugglers.
If I am not mistaken you used to work for Unisys and they were the ones handling the computerization of Customs during the time of Parayno,kaya I think you already know what I am talking about. And di ko lang alam kung dejavu, mukhang napag usapan na natin dati ito.
and to digress about that ADB report CVJ,I also recall that we also considered election spending as a means to have a high GDP and that issue is being reiterated by ADB.
Hmmm, with Noli? I wonder.–kabayan
as i stated here in my previous post, i only have one person in mind to lead a transition government in case gma finally gets kicked out of malacanang, reynato puno.
noli up to this hasn’t proven that “he is his own man”. i don’t find in him the qualities needed of a leader to lead this country out of the current misery. and i don’t like the idea just to accept noli as the alternative because he is the vp and the constitutional succesor.
furthermore, i agree with conrado de quiros that if and when gma is removed out of malacanang, there will be no vacancy in presidency because gma’s mandate ended in 2004. 2004 elections was mired with cheating and the “hello garci” tapes issue hasn’t been fully resolved thus creating a cloud of doubt as to gma’s legitimacy.
therefore it just make sense to have a transition government installed post gma. and reynato puno is the person where we can all agree to lead us.
noli might be a good person, but he is not “the man”.
“I have been a witness to this,since I used to work for a port opearator ;and I also used to get the import data from customs as well ,for that particular port operator.” – karl garcia
Karl, I sooo know how this feels. I’ve been trying to make a decent report on importation of a particular commodity but I can’t seem to get it right. I get some copies of the import manifests from a certain company that specializes in business intelligence but when I cross check the data with data from local market they don’t tally. Even the industry forecasts/estimates made by regional researchers are way off tangent. It simply can’t be done, I tell you…
that will only happen if we have extradition treaties with every single country in the world. plus if all those countries respect the philippines as an equal. we can’t even enforce extradition with some countries we have this treaty with…
mita, he’s trying to be funny without the humor. Am not at all offended because it isn’t true. They can always refer to my blog.
When a person talks about dishonesty and corruption while he is using company time and resources–in my book, that person is a hypocrite.
“When a person talks about dishonesty and corruption while he is using company time and resources–in my book, that person is a hypocrite.” – The Cat
So true…
Karl, thanks for your first hand account! I was wondering, do you think the smuggled oil is mostly in the form of technical smuggling? This article by Manila Standard says that about one-third of last year’s oil was smuggled:
http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=politics1_jan24_2008
If what that article says is true, that means that GDP is overstated by 133 Billion Pesos on that alone i.e. by 2%. Of course, if it was technical smuggling, then we have to subtract from the overstatement the misdeclared amount that goes into imports.
Correction! Its HI HO SILVER, AWAY!
followed by tararan tararan tararantantan tararan tararan tararantantan tararan tararan tararantantan tan tararan tantan
The LOne Ranger and his sideckick TONTO!
Baka pati Muppet Show mali ka pa rin?
What I find so PLASTIC about JDV and the others is that if GMA had not threatened him in one way or another, then I suppose he won’t be blabbering about what he found out.
It’s a case of “Laglagan”.
Strange…
You left one ingredient: people collectively establish governments using INSTITUTIONS as channels for such undertaking.
So everything is done through institutions and the strengths of said institutions determines how well the whole system works.
…in philippine politics, shifting of party allegiance or changing of loyalty is as common as changing your dirty shirt everyday( if you do change your dirty shirt).
benign0,
What if such an institution is corrupted already, can you honestly say something good will come out of it still?
Escuse me, pwede ba magbenta ng second hand products dito :
Electric Fan – Php 650.00 Stand Fan
TV – Samsung/ Sony and Sharp – 24″ Php 1,000.00 per month, 6 months to pay.
Please reply to me or text me at 0926-7478585
…in short there is no loyalty at all!
especially if large sum of money is involved!
It’s very easy for the youth to say na “PALITAN”, “BAGUHIN” , “ITUMBA”, but we really do not have any good option of who will then take over the reins of power once GMA falls.
Noli de Castro? Come on.
“…in short there is no loyalty at all!
especially if large sum of money is involved!” – istambay
This is especially true with thieves. Remember the saying “THERE IS NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES.” Thats why a good organized crime boss must always get rid of loose ends…
Oi Ramrod,
Mukhang kailangan mo ng deodorant. Ang lakas mong mang-asar eh bugok ka rin naman.
Ulul!
…..taran taran taran tan tan taran taran taran tan tan… here comes the cavalry!
@ Ramrod
Uy, Ramrod, type kita eh…gusto mo mag-sex tayo?
Doree,
Bawal kaya yan dito. Manolo, help!!!
Yesterday, my brother John who spoke like a Nazi was abused by this forum.
Please do not say cuss words to people.
Let’s have a peaceful debate.
Thanks
KASI….MGA KATOTO DIN NAMAN NI MANOLO ANG NAMBABASTOS DITO AH.
KAYA HAYAN MAY NAG-CHALLENGE!
HEHEHEE
MLQ ,
If you really are a moderator, muzzle the people who are abusive here.
Imagine, my brother was just saying his point of view courteously, then people like the DEvil’s Advocate guy lambasted him with the “f” word.
Please MLQ
Thank you.
ITONG MGA ANTI-GMA PAG NATATALO NA SA DEBATE, EH, INI-NAMECALL KA NA.
HAY….NAKU.
PURO KAYO HEARSAY, HEARSAY, HEARSAY
PARE PAREHO KAYONG MGA UGOK TULAD NI JUN LOZADA
EH SINUNGALING NAMAN YUNG KALBONG YUN!
karl,
I believe Manolo expects us to MODERATE ourselves, we’re mature enough to do so, I believe.
HOY ISTAMBAY SA KALYE…SUNTUKAN NA LANG.
BAYARAN KA KASI SA RALLY EH
i doubt manolo condones anybody here who are being outright disrespectful to others, whether they share same ideas or different from him.
we are all adults here and we should practice self-restraints when things are getting out of hand. manolo cannot referee us all the time. we are not little kids anymore. although he does let you know when you are way out of bounds.
i myself is a recipient of a gentle reminder to behave and be respectful of others. respect goes both ways too.
as is goes, we can disagree without being disagreeable. hope i got that right. peace!
We’re under attack by schizophrenics, bi polars, multi personalities. Brace yourselves for the close encounter of the dissociative diseased kind!!!
Yes ramrod, manolo expects to us, but he must give a stern warning to those who abuse the freedom of this forum.
Kaunting paalala lang from him would make a big difference.
thanks ramrod
…and don’t get onion skinned especially kung and dating mo ay malakas rin. as in physics’ newton’s 3rd law: “Every action has an equal and opposite reaction”.
peace!
“HOY ISTAMBAY SA KALYE…SUNTUKAN NA LANG.” – gerry
In your case kurutan na lang kaya? Baka hindi marunong sa sinasabi mo? Ikaw rin…
HOY ISTAMBAY SA KALYE…SUNTUKAN NA LANG.
BAYARAN KA KASI SA RALLY EH—gery? penalosa?
big fan of manny pacquiao i bet! hahahahaha
I can’t imagine people or rather brutes like Gerry could penetrate this free talk.
SORRY PO…SORRY PO. TAKOT AKO.
BWAHAHAHAHA
“HOY ISTAMBAY SA KALYE…SUNTUKAN NA LANG.†– gerry
march 15, 2008 at las vegas, nevada.
MANNY Vs. MARQUEZ
Ramrod yaah, It can’t be done not in this lifetime.
By the way I have been longing to ask this,since I clicked on your link, I found out that you were an Ayer and peobably of class 86 or 87,correct,Sir?
Do you know a certain Sean Villa, Kung tinuloy mo Lt.Col, Col ka na siguro ngayon.
Well,at least I can say good luck in your daily life as a businessman ako magstastart pa lang, mararanasan ko din yung mga sakit ng ulo mo.
CVj, I’ll take a look at the link. Matagal na yung oil smuggling NFA rice smuggling and the works.
Going back to GDP data.
Sa example namin ni Ramrod kung yung data gatherers natin,can’t seem to get it right no matter how good our statisticians are, it is still garbage in garbage out.
Mkakapture sana sa Consumption factor e di naman lahat nagrerresibo , tapos yung milestone natin na 7.3di ba ddpaat tayo magpasalamat sa mga election spending ni Pichay,Recto,Singson,etc….kaya it will always be guesstimates,no mather what all the PHDS in Neda will say
=====================================================
On spratleys, I read how the DFA wants to spiin it or explain, it,panahon pa daw ni Cory yung agreement, in fact he named predecessor Doy Laurel ok dead men can’t talk,blame them. Aas to why anly disclose this to the public now,maybe they did disclose it di lang tayo interado nung time na dinisclose.
Tulad ng namemtion ko dati na link rpchina.blogspot.com, It is a blog that tries to compile all the deals of gMsa with RP and china, I have been seeing that url in the letters to the editors since last year pero wala masyadong nagbabasa ng letters to the editors, kaya di rin natin masisi ang media sa style nila ng panghightlight ng issue,dahil madami din naman tayong di pinapansin dati.
sa mga tina tamad mag type ng rpchina.blogspot.com sa address bar nila,here is the link:
RPCHINA
Karl:
he does. i’ve seen him moderate ColdKing in previous threads. i’m sure if he scans the thread later, he’ll see something.
but it would do you well also to scan the thread and see how this word war developed. and while devils comes off as abrasive, to his credit this is one of the few times he’s resorted to open cussing, perhaps your brother struck a nerve.
i’m not taking sides here, but i do think the escalation was unfortunate. however, it would do everyone who posts here to respect each others’ opinion. while we may not be at the same level of intellectual development, we all deserve to have our say.
thing with manolo’s blog though, is that you have to expect reactions, and you’ll get all sorts.
istambay_sakalye said,
Amen to that.
karl,
These things happen really, but rarely. We get pissed off, cool down for a while, and then move on.
Nothing personal really…
If its not mentioned again, its forgotten…Peace to you John…
Well if you will choose to mount an effort that is outside of the processes enshrined in said institutions, then you will have to go the whole nine yards and completely DESTROY the existing institutions and systems and replace them with new ones in the aftermath of said effort.
A half-baked mediocre “revolution” such as these moronic street antics we’ve had since 1986 and the ones being proposed by today’s cretins simply weaken the existing system and allow more cretins to infest these institutions.
That’s the answer. You either work with the ones we have now, or destroy them completely if you want another extra-constitutionally undertaken change in administration.
Do it half-way (i.e. da Pinoy way) and all you get are (and this is a no-brainer) half-baked results (pwede na yan mentality kung baga).
My brother really struck a nerve siguro.
Talagang pinagsalitaan lang siya in his face ng di maganda.
The abrasion of Devil’s Advocate only shows na hindi lahat ay bagay sa debate.
Like Gerry, feeling ko may problema yan eh.
Peace!
@ ramrod
I’m sure my brother will accept your apology.
Kasi baka image nun sa inyo is a Nazi skin-head, actually hindi, mukhang pari nga yun eh. Mahilig lang talaga sa German History.
Peace.
CVj, read the link, thanks!
Since we all know it is not only oil that is smuggled then it is way over 133 %
Dito sa pinas pati Customs examiners ang gaganda ng mga Kotse e.
Dito makakaita tayo ng Ferrari mabibilib pa tayo eh, di na natin iisipin smuggled kaya yan.
Pero,with due respect to our statisticians and economists,they are doing a thankless job.
I don’t believe it really, but I totally agree with you on this one. Compromise for expediency will never work…
Karl:
There are two people i know on the comments that almost always totally rub people the wrong way: benign0 and Bencard.
These guys have been called every venomous thing everyone else has thought of, but like them or not, they have their points.
The Ca t shoots down comments at times with a brutal efficiency, and yet if you take a second look, she makes a hell of a lot of sense.
In the marketplace of ideas, there should be no room for ad hominems, but as we are a group of people passionate about the goings on in our homeland (whether we are actually here or not), you can’t really expect anyone to be dispassionate.
evn cvj, who is one of the more “toned down” of the commenters here imho, can’t resist taking a few swipes at Gloria as well. hehehe
Karl, in deference to you being a good friend of mine, i will apologize to your brother.
John, sorry. i was out of line. i knew that but i had to get it out of my system. tonio’s right, you struck a nerve. anywhoo, there is another comment of mine in moderation and i said the f word there again for the last time.
let us agree to disagree from this point okay?
i’ll try to look for other outlets when some comments get my goat.
hey guys,
Seriously. Brace yourselves for another round of petrol increase, and subsequent price increase in other commodities…Transport strike Tuesday next week also. Of course, Gloria has nothing to do with this.
People Power has lost its functionality. – blackshama
People Power is liberal fascism. – DJB
There may be as many critiques of People Power as there are advocates. – Abe N. Margallo
i see people power as a system disturbance exploited by people to force a state transition otherwise precluded by the control mechanisms. being outside of system countrol, it plays outside of any rule, neither its elements, methods nor effect. its result can range from a single component, as in 2001 or the overhaul of the entire system itself, as in 1986. it is powered by numbers and fueled with anger. its rationale can be sublime (edsa 1) or ignoble (edsa 3), depending on where you are looking from. (one man’s revolutionary is another man’s rebel). its gripping allure is its unpredictability. but the only lasting effect it leaves on society is government instability, because the string of coup attempts that we had were no doubt inspired by that delusion, people power.
let us work for change, but let’s reject people power.
i think i’ve only resorted to openly cussing fellow posters in here twice. the first was of course ColdKing who was a micro-racist, and the second was John, who is enamored with fascism but thinks himself as something else.
i’ve cussed here often enough, but they were always directed towards govt officials, and i made it a point not to attack other posters personally.
but what can you say? i am human too, and not a robot. i will get mad at times. esp abt things i am passionate abt or things that irk me. two things that will always get you in firing line of my sharp tongue are these: discriminatory comments agst others, and pretentious intellectualism.
now to my credit, i can take it as well as i can dish it. you notice john wasn’t exactly benign in his response to me, but i am in no way mad at him for it. i know what his reaction will be and i expect it.
this is a blog were ideas get thrown abt, discussed, debated, argued. emotions will run high and unpleasant words will be exchanged. but in the end, we all hope that we can agree to disagree and become friends.
a few of the posters i’ve crossed swords with are: bencard, benigno, rego, cvj, djb, cat, a.scalia (i’m forgetting others, but cmon, this is like the oscars, im bound to forget others that need commendation
)
we all had times we disagreed with each other – VEHEMENTLY, but in the end, that did not diminish my respect for these people, or for the ideas that they presented.
think of Manolo’s blog as an alchemy pot. that when certain people get mixed together, expect a combustible reaction. hehe.
I try read mlq’s forum from time to time and has always found the discussions fiery and lively but always points are raised and discussed. This past few days tho, I’ve noticed that the arguments start to deviate from discussing issues to discussing the forum people.
So, breaking my silence, I would like to ask everyone to please go back to discussing issues and points raised by mlq’s blog entries?
As for me. I agree with the senators’ decision to reject the compromise agreement. Mostly because this gives us an insight into the character of the supreme court when they make their decision. Does the supreme court put the value of executive privilege above the value of seeking the truth? It is a hard decision no doubt.
Yung dapat lang i-ban dito ay ang argumentum ad hominem and speculation on personal circumstances.
Not because these are rude, but because nakaka-bobo ang mga ganyang style. These styles should be purged from Pinoy-style debate.
Yun lang.
I wonder how Bencard and Bengin0 would think about this.
rego,
pasok yung mga manok mo sa Idol top 12.
Buti naman me Pinay ulit.
Yung David (dami David ,basta yung sinabi mo)kala ko matanggal bak akasi madami maniwala ke Simon na gloomy sya….
Devils hindi ako yung Karl na nag comment tingkol ke sa skinheads;ang dami kasing Karl eh,buti nakita ko minsan kasi mkatagal ako nawawala dito.
Ok benigs,if I am one of those who speculate on personal circumstances and to the rest,I apologize.
Tonio, Sir I reiterate hindi po ako yon
ang nakita ko lang common denominatir ay brother, na ginagamit ko tulad ng Musilim Brothers at kapatid na Fil-am.
i have mentioned in other threads that I respect the Cat,Rego,Bencard and all of you even Benigno.
On speculating on personal circumstances mukhang ginawa ko na naman kanina tungkol sa pagiging Ayer ni Ramrod, Kung offensive foul yun sorry.
Kung me nalimutan ako, sorry
i really do not believe that GMA will fight to the the end to retain her post.
If we agree that the present administration is motivated only by greed and lust for power, then people defending this regime will run at the first sign of defeat.
History will tell us.
All leaders fight to death only of they are motivated by higher or noble calling.
:p
but then, if she is motivated by her desire to make this country prosperous, then she will fight.
What do you think?
What motivates her to cling to power?
opps, again.
Cat, kapal. hehehe
YOu have a long way to go to learn how to shoot without using a live bullet.
When the forum becomes toxic and reeks of stench, it attracts flies.
And that’s the reason why I HATE THOSE CUSSING-WRITING-IN-ALL-CAPS COMMENTERS IN THIS FORUM.
Wooops. Blame my dysfunctional keyboard, the capslock won’t unlock.
This message is only for those with IQ of 25.
Respect for freedom of expression aside, I agree with this. It’s a tactic that’s a bit lacking in taste, like bringing a club to a swordfight.
observe ko sa forum na to, may smart, may magaling mag-articulate, may pseudo-intellectuals, may feeling PhD na walang sense of humor, may sensitive na socialista pero malakas din ang dating, may astig mag-retort…
congrats MLQ3 for managing to attract such wide array of personalities without suppressing who they are and what they have to say.
tigasan lang ng loob pag sumasabak dito.
so, if gloria is removed, you have to scrap the constitution for your personal bets to take over since you don’t want those constitutional sucessors (de castro & villar for not being fit) to take over.
yan ay kung kayo ang masusunod. at bakit magkakautang ng loob si de castro kanginuman kung matanggal man si gloria?
>>>>
ang sigaw ng mga tao ngayon, “lozada for senator†ang bagong kilabot ng mga kampus.
Truly a microcosm of the outside world, this blog comment box.
Really, Argumentum ad hominem in a place where identities are hidden by handles and pseudonyms?
I’m all for a free for all in the web. It’s the only place where we can be unbounded.
Some ideas turn out to be crap (including mine), but it’s better to bring it out in the open to be trashed. digested, or mocked. It’s part of the learning process.
benign0,
precisely what i’m afraid of. they will turn people power into an institution.
anarchy? proletariat revo? socialism? communism?
wag na uy.
trip ko lang hindi ako magkaroon ng presidenteng kinukurakot ang withheld tax ko. demet.
resignation. pipol pawer. paalisin ng militar. eh ano ngaun kung nakakarami na tau ng Pipol Pawer? di naman natin ginawa mga un para lang magbilang. ginawa natin mga yun dahil may criminal na nakaupo sa Malakanyang.
hanggang ngaun, meron pa rin.
hahayaan lang natin dahil nakadalawa na tayo?
People Power as a last resort was provoked by the corruption and abuse of power by Gloria, her allies and hacks themselves. As such she reaps the whirlwind.
It is time to impose zero tolerance on corruption and those who defend it.
Pro-corruption groups, alis diyan.
gloria abused power. kabayan wants to abuse people power
thanks tonio. brutal ba? i thought i am using my nephew’s glove to deal with some people, then i found out that the little kid left some of his marbles inside. hahaha
grd, I believe he knows it’s true but the temptation to respond to adversaries is just so great that some people forget that they have job descriptions to follow.
i had nothing but sympathy for people i knew who were active in the forums and lost their jobs when admin found out that most of their company time were spent in forums like this.
My concern is genuine.
curious: my not-so-potent posts are moderated. yet the F-words above aren`t. hmmm…
sus. i cannot believe some posters here come on “strong” pero pag may kumakantyaw naman sa kanila, nagpapalipad ng “admin-knows-so-beware” tactics. genuine concerns? what a phony. please lang. debate kung debate.
kabayan, naireport mo na ba ang kapitbahay nyong naka-bmw na corrupt sabi mo?
grd,
Oo grd, nakareport na at stored sa multiple database
Ikaw mindanaoan, what did you do or did not do? Status quo ba?
Ikaw grd, anong kontribusyon mo sa anti-corruption efforts?
i can only post comments. that’s all i can do
mindanaoan said,
That figures
http://www.pnoc-ec.com.ph/newsevents2.html
Here is what PNOC have to say about JMSU.
JMSU on to its Second Phase
December 3, 2007
The second phase of the Joint Marine Seismic Undertaking in the South China Sea (JMSU) is now underway. This joint study, which involves the national oil companies of the Philippines, China and Vietnam represented by PNOC Exploration Corporation, China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) and Vietnam Oil and Gas Corporation (PetroVietnam) respectively, took effect in July 2005 and aims to assess the petroleum potential of a certain area in the South China Sea. The agreement has a 3- year term covering an area of 142,886 km 2 located in the contested waters west of Palawan. The JMSU will only entail seismic acquisition, processing and interpretation. All other activities other than the seismic study will be subject to new negotiations and possibly new Agreements among the three companies.
The three companies’ decision to proceed to the 2 nd phase was prompted by the encouraging results of the 1 st phase. The seismic acquisition survey has a 12,000 km program, which is currently on-going. The survey started in October 10, 2007 and around 4,500 kms has already been acquired. The seismic survey is expected to be completed by the first quarter of 2008, after which, the data will be processed in Vietnam and interpreted in Manila.
The JMSU is considered a big step towards transforming a previous area of conflict into an area for possible cooperation and mutual benefit. The agreement is however designed to be commercial in nature and does not affect territorial claims of the respective countries of the area.
=======================================================
According to the PNOc, the agreement is a commercial one and have nothing to do with territorial claims.
I heard that the Foreign affairs commitee has already crafted the Baseline law, pero pending pa din since last congress. The baseline law,should take care of our territorial issueas even with malaysia and Indonesia.
But for the time being let us just cross our fingers that our territorial claims would not be affected.
kabayan, i don’t think there are any “pro-corruption” individuals or groups, other than the practitioners themselves. i’m sure nobody in this blog is pro-corruption. please don’t equate not being a gloria-hater as being tolerant of corruption in public office. if you are able to present palpable and properly tested “evidence” of her culpability, i’m certain none of these so-called gloria defenders (including yours truly) will hesitate to join the chorus for her removal and her being brought to justice.
what is truly hateful is this penchant for pre-judgment – condemnation before substantiation. look at what they are doing to our kids from age 3 to 17, e.g., lozada going the rounds of campuses to politicize and indoctrinate minors to his way of thinking urging them to hate “gloria”, in particular, and the government, in general. what responsible adult would brainwash children, for whatever evil purposes, to be pre-judgmental and bear hatred in their hearts which they would carry to adulthood. what kind of citizenry do they expect to develop out of that misguidance? no better, but much worst, than what we have now, i’m sure. we shall reap the wind that we sow.
Bencard,
You are entitled to your opinion. As some people say nowadays … Noted.
…
Kabayan forgets — People-power provoked :
— by Marcos
— by Cory (according to Honasan and his military and media-backers);
— by Erap (according to cvj, Lambino and others);
— by GMA (according to Satur, Trillanes, Honasan, cvj, Q3, kabayan, jen and their media- and other backers);
I’ve said this once before. The country really should institutionalize a much more equitable version of NCR-based-PeoplePower. Instead, just have elections every 3 years.
What is nonsensical is that a solution to PeoplePower — getting the voters to elect People-Power-cowed congressmen, or at least to people-power out three or four nonPeoplePower congressmen — seems to never be an objective (and definitely not an accomplishment) of PeoplePower-philippine style.
My fearless yet fearful prediction — irregardless of GMA, that there will be deja vu all over again.
Pre-judgment was borne of cover-ups, crackdowns, repression and abuses of this administration. Now the people are waking up, Gloria wants to play the Harp of Reconciliation. She has proven before and have proven for time to time the liar she is. Time for her to go.
kabayan, in my small way, i don’t practice it. i follow the law. i don’t bribe people. say, if i get reprimanded in traffic, i give my license instead of just paying the officer para di lang maabala. if i transact business to govt offices, i fall in line. small time lang naman kasi ako. ordinaryong empleyado ba.
at kagaya nyo dito sa forum, i am denouncing corruption too but not through people power or ningas kugon lamang but through continuous vigilance. at hindi ako nagmamarunong-marunongan kung sino ang puede at hindi puedeng iloklok na pamalit ni gloria sa puesto ng president.
yung database na sinasabi mo anong gagawin diyan?
There is only so much of these abuses that Gloria can dish out to the people, now the cup runs over, time for her to go.
grd,
Whatever happening now is borne of cover-ups by this lying president. The spirit of the law WILL NOT PROSPER under Gloria and her ilk. Time for her to go.
…unlike some who fantasize themselves knights in shining armor…
Remember Col. Balutan and General Gudani? They hatched up a midnight E.O. 464 and persecuted them. They RELEASED the E.O. on the VERY DAY that they were testifying and they suffered for it. Such a thicked faced move.
Whatever happened to Bedol now? How about Musa Dimasidsing? Out of touch and out of mind? And now Gloria has herself a resthouse, Cage of Bayonets in Crame. Gloria and her ilk must go.
kabayan, what’s your timeline for her to go? it’s been 3 years already since people started saying that. notice why i’m doing a countdown here? you and the others have been saying that gloria’s days are numbered so i’ve started counting the days. i’m doing it for you.