Thank you, bishops
February 27, 2008 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
Yesterday Senators Enrile and Arroyo tag-teamed to try to shut down the Senate hearings and one can assume they did so, to prevent the emergence of new witnesses. They failed. And so, New witness tags Arroyo couple in NBN mess. See also ZTE advanced $41M to ‘greedy group’–witness: ‘Chinese, Filipino groups to half $200M overprice’ ‘The worms just keep wriggling out of the can. See Ellen Tordesillas for additional background. I do think this is an extremely valid point: New witness in NBN probe ‘too relaxed,’ says Pangilinan: He might be a ‘Trojan Horse’.
One can assume that it is the public pressure of the hearings that leads to the leaking of documents, such as ‘Copy for FG’ is marginal note on NBN document. It’s well to remember that those grousing over the “lack” of evidence deliberately overlook how the Palace clamped down on producing documents, for obvious reasons.
As Manuel Buencamino does, so will people continue doing: asking questions to which the official answers don’t make sense.
Last night, after an emergency meeting, the Catholic hierarchy released a pastoral exhortation, ‘Seeking the Truth, Restoring Integrity’ with six main recommendations:
1. Condemn the continuing culture of corruption from the top to the bottom of our social and political ladder;
2. Urge the President and all the branches of government to take the lead in combating corruption wherever it is found;
3. Recommend the abolition of EO 464 so that those who might have knowledge of any corruption in branches of government, may be free to testify before the appropriate investigating bodies;
4. Ask the President to allow her subordinates to reveal any corrupt acts, particularly about the ZTE-NBN deal, without being obstructed in their testimony no matter who is involved;
5. Appeal to our senators and the ombudsman to use their distinct and different powers of inquiry into alleged corruption cases not for their own interests but for the common good;
6. Call on media to be a positive resource of seeking the truth and combating corruption by objective reporting without bias and partiality, selective and tendentious reporting of facts.
It’s enough to make AlterNation101 happy because it rebukes the media (does that include government media?). While bloggers like Spank Me! and at wit’s end are furious, and Palace hails CBCP for ‘not succumbing to propaganda’ others, like Bobbie Reyes say the demand to revoke Executive Order 464 is “an extremely powerful statement.” barefoot calls it a wise tactical move. I have to heartily agree with Lunasandwich who points out,
While for sure the defenders of greed and corruption will be quick to use the bishop’s statement as leverage, people should still resist the urge to label the bishops as in cohorts with the enemy. People who believe that GMA must go should not be disheartened. Maybe this time there would be much more meaning when it is the people who convince the Church’s leadership when it is time for evil leaders to go than vice-versa.
People seem to be coming to a decision on their own, anyway.
In his blog, Mon Casiple seems to agree, too:
However, there is a tilt in the balance as it categorically called for the abolition of EO 464 so that “those who might have knowledge of any corruption in branches of government may be free to testify before the appropriate investigating bodies.†The CBCP asked President Arroyo to allow her subordinates to reveal any corrupt acts, particularly on the $329.48-million ZTE NBN deal without being obstructed in their testimony, “no matter who is involved.â€
The thematic unity of the CBCP revolved around the search for truth–a formula that basically puts the onus for finding it on the broad opposition. In including President Macapagal-Arroyo as participant in the search for truth, the CBCP basically satisfied the bishops friendly to her. At the same time, it also opened the door for more testimony thereby satisfying those bishops who already made up their mind on the guilt of the President.
The CBCP put itself as the cart after the horse and sidestepped its possible moral leadership on the matter of addressing the key action of calling for GMA resignation. This sends the message that it will only act decisively when the people themselves–on their own–acted decisively towards this end.
There are other nuances to Casiple’s analysis, but on the open-ended demand being significant, I also agree (note: demand, not an ultimatum because, well, essentially the bishops give the President until Kingdom Come to comply: hence the Palace’s breezy “this deserves very serious consideration,” and Scrapping EO 464 requires ‘careful study’–DoJ chief, which is officialese for “wham bang thank you, bishops”) . See Jove Francisco for the Palace’s activities: none of them involving anything the bishops suggested.
It satisfies the Jesuit conditions that things should not escalate until all the i’s have been dotted and all the t’s are crossed. By all means, do so. I am confident this proposal will go the way of that other Jesuit brainchild, the Truth Commission that bamboozled the Solita Monsods of this world into giving the President a free pass in 2005. So they’ve done it again, may their tribe increase. I’ve mentioned before that we have to consider that the real fight may only begin in 2010 when the President’s collaborators run out of rationalizations.
As Tony Abaya puts it,
Edsa 1 can be said to have taken two years and six months – Aug. 21, 1983 to Feb. 25, 1986 – to reach flashpoint of sufficient heat and energy to force Marcos and his family out of Malacanang.
If the putative Edsa 3 (or 4) were to be superimposed on this timeline, and the trigger were the revelations of Jun Lozada on Feb. 5, 2008, flashpoint would not be reached until about August 2010…
By August 2010, Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo would be on her first months as prime minister or as president on a third term, the Constitution having been amended in 2009 to enable her to remain in power legally and constitutionally beyond June 30, 2010, by the Kampi-Lakas dominated Congress, as is the ill-disguised aim of the ChaCha Road Show inaugurated last Feb. 12 by Albay Gov. Joey “Bitch†Salceda.
Using EO 464 as one more bridge to cross, is fine with me for that reason.
Can the President dispense with Executive Order 464? Only if:
1. She replaces it with another executive issuance that has the same effect as EO 464, or;
2. She puts the squeeze on executive officials to lie, and destroys documents that everyone knows exists.
Method 1 is what Marcos adopted with his infamous Amendment 6 to the Constitution which rendered meaningless his lifting of martial law in 1981. I’m sure some legal sleuthing in the Administrative Code and other places might dig up useful pretexts to block Senate subpoenas.
But method 2 is the easier thing to do, However, in the long run, the least effective because too much has already been said and too many trails lead straight back to her.
Easiest of all, of course, is not to budge on E.O. 464 and keep applying it, saying there are pending cases in the Supreme Court, that it requires proper study, that a special committee has been appointed to look into it and that in the fullness of time it will issue non-binding recommendations for further discussion…
Or, the President could revoke it and throw caution to the winds in which case the bishops could honestly claim paternity for a full-blown miracle.
But what has been happening is that the Catholic bishops and the moderate critics of the President as well as the collaborators, have all come to focus on E.O. 464 as the first line of the President’s defense.
And a means for piercing that defense is actively proposed by today’s Inquirer editorial, Strike for the truth: a nationwide stay-home strike (the editorial responded to this particular about-face by the Palace: Arroyo on ‘flawed’ NBN deal ‘lost in translation’–Palace). No one can say a strike is incompatible with democracy, the Constitution or the so-called government “rule of law.”
Proposing a day to stay home instead of going into the streets should be vigorously discussed (see Amando Doronila’s Arroyo’s work ethic and the Mafia for some particulars on how businessmen are tackling the question of economic costs); to ignore the proposal merely limits the already narrowing options available to the public.
Returning to the CBCP Statement, bear in mind it’s the product of a collegial body and that the immediate objective of the leading bishops was to forge a united stand. The pastoral exhortation was at least, approved unanimously. No one can complain. It may also represent the last service Archbishops Capalla and Talamayan, the President’s point men within the hierarchy, can provide the President.
So, sorry to disappoint Philippine Commentary, but I’m happy with the statement. It can only help tighten the noose and it can only further clarify the battle lines.
In the blogosphere, smoke takes a nihilist look at ongoing events, an antidote, I suppose, to the passion of Etcetera, Etcetera (heartily applauded by Manila Bay Watch). love hurts… but sometimes it’s a good hurt… and it feels like i’m alive… has some photos: see Blog@AWBHoldings.com for Cory Aquino’s speech. Philippine Politics 04 responds to a mother’s concerns over rallies.
As always, Mabini’s prayer continues to resound down the ages:
To sum it up, the Revolution failed because it was badly led; because its leader won his post by reprehensible rather than meritorious acts; because instead of supporting the men most useful to the people, he made them useless out of jealousy. Identifying the aggrandizement of the people with his own, he judged the worth of men not by their ability, character and patriotism but rather by their degree of friendship and kinship with him; and anxious to secure the readiness of his favorites to sacrifice themselves for him, he was tolerant even of their transgressions. Because he thus neglected the people forsook him; and forsaken by the people, he was bound to fall like a waxen idol melting in the heat of adversity. God grant we do not forget such a terrible lesson, learnt at the cost of untold suffering.
This is a cool bit o’ video: How cops come up with crowd estimates.
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BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:17 pm
She lied on Rizal day, cheated on an election. These wait-and-see people should really get a clue. This is pathological already. It’s one thing to be precipitous and quite another to be a pussy.
benign0 on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:20 pm
Like I said earlier. The Church first needs to own up to its own track record of suppressing the Truth, propagating ignorance, and undermining just about every effort to implement a sound family planning infrastructure in Pinoy society.
If we make politicians’ credibility the issue here, then let’s make the Church’s credibility an issue as well.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:22 pm
ALL,
All these hesitation from the no-EDSA crowd smacks of American influence. Just because George Bush got away with lying to the American public and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and thousands of US soldiers do not mean Gloria should get away with lesser crimes.
These people won’t just admit it but they are taking their cue from American politics.
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:23 pm
Dante wrote that the “hottest place in Hell is reserved for those, who in time of crisis, remain neutral.â€
cvj on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:32 pm
What’s the ‘Truth Commission’? Where can i read more about it?
matt on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:35 pm
stay at home strike? nice. that’s something people like me could easily do
james on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:40 pm
the truth is ABS-CBn is utterly digusting impartial(as observed by the CBCp)..
and imperial manila is willingly awed by it all….
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:46 pm
Ok, let’s do this reverse-engineering-like.
1. Can the no-EDSA advocates convince me that GMA did NOT cheat in the last election?
2. Can you give me a reason to trust that the “Process” will deal with number 1 that will satisfy the criteria of truth and justice?
3. Can you please explain to me why her invocation of Executive Privilege, the mere effort to prevent important witnesses from helping the Senate in an investigation of a major crime against our country can be anything but an impeachable offense, the kind of offense that would get a prime minister a no-confidence vote, easily (for admirers of the parliamentary form of government)?
4. Please explain why still have done nothing two years after Hello Garci came out?
Tambay on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:48 pm
BrianB and Equalizer
Nobody is stopping you guys from doing what you need to do to get her to resign. But please, you have no right to tell us WHAT or WHAT not to do. We are not pawns to serve YOUR ends.
We will decide if we want to join you guys or not. HINDI KAYO na puro lang pamimintas ang nakukuha namin sa inyo. Ang hirap sa inyo, kayo ang mga taong ikinatatakutan namin, na feeling superior sa aming mga madla na sumusubaybay sa mga nangyayari, nagmamasid at naguusisa pa.
Kung kayo din lang mga maiinit ang ulo ang papalit sa pamahalann, di bale na lang.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:56 pm
Tambay, I was speaking to the neutrals and to people who want to stay away from politics. My question is addressed to advocates of No-Edsa. Everyone has a right to be left alone if he want to be left alone. I simply assumed people like Smoke, etc. were willing to discuss their side with our side.
As for the Bishops, people have a right to criticize their avowed moral leaders when these moral leaders refuse to lead.
As for being hot-headed. It comes from fear. Fear that a liar and thief and perhaps even a murderer should govern us. If you don’t think we are not governemd by a criminal, go to my previous post and kindly satisfy my curiosity.
benign0 on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:58 pm
BrianB,
(1) You need a PROCESS to come up with a convincing argument that GMA cheated or did not cheat. So that 1st challenge of yours is an oxymoron.
(2) If you can’t trust the “process” then you need a process to SUBSTANTIATE the untrustworthiness of said process.
(3) The ALLEGED “effort to prevent important witnesses from helping the Senate in an investigation of a major crime against our country”. But you need a PROCESS to turn this allegation into the outcome you desire. A PROCEDURE within said process is to file an impeachment complaint.
(4) Why has nothing been done about the Hello Garci thing? I think this is one of those ‘impeacheable offenses’ you mentioned. Last I heard government officials enjoy a 1 year grace period in between impeachment complaints. That’s part of the process.
So you see, the only way one can escape PROCESS is to incite anarchy. That’s exactly what these moronic street “revolutions” are in essence. They’re just being marketed to vacuous minds as exercises to restore the integrity of democratic institutions. It’s an irony that escapes the average vacuous mind.
Kamote on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:02 pm
quote
We will decide if we want to join you guys or not. HINDI KAYO na puro lang pamimintas ang nakukuha namin sa inyo. Ang hirap sa inyo, kayo ang mga taong ikinatatakutan namin, na feeling superior sa aming mga madla na sumusubaybay sa mga nangyayari, nagmamasid at naguusisa pa.
Kung kayo din lang mga maiinit ang ulo ang papalit sa pamahalann, di bale na lang.
unquote
Sa ganitong rason din ang dahilan kung baket me nahoholdap na at sinasaksak e wala pa din tumutulong sa biktima. Ganito din ang rason ng mga taong usisero sa mga krimen na nagaganap sa harap nila at wala silang pakialam.
Pero pag sila na ang biktima para silang mga asong aatungal tapos sisihin ang mga taong saksi sa pangyayare na hindi man lang tumulong. Cycle diba?
In short ang tawag sa mga ganyan ay duwag.
In short kaya madaming umaalis ng pilipinas dahil sa mga kamag anak na ganyan
Tambay on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:09 pm
BrianB
Kaya nga pabayaan mo muna kaming magmasid at mag usisa. Marami sa mga taong itinutukoy mo na No-EDSA ay tulad namin na ayaw gumawa ng hakbang hanggang di namin napagpasyahan kung totoo ba o hindi ang mga paratang.
Kayo, kung sa palagay ninyo ay sapat na, opinyon niyo iyun. Kami, di pa kami handang magbigay ng aming kapasyahan.
Di ko alam kung buhay ka pa nung panahon ni Marcos. Mas grabe ang panahon na iyon kung ikumpara mo sa mga panahon ngayon. Di ko sinasabi na di kailangan ng mga improvement ngunit at least, lahat tayo nakakapagsalita na hindi dinadampot at nawawala na lamang.
Ang punto, hinay lang. Kung lalantad ang mga katibayan (na sa palagay ko ay kulang pa AT OPINYON KO IYON), hindi naman tayo magaatubili at ihihingi din natin ang kanyang ulo. Ngunit sa ngayon, di pa.
Ang pagkukundisyun ng ulo ng mga madla ay di lamang gawain ng mga taga administrasyon, ngunit pati na rin sa oposisyon. Mga maestro ang mga iyan sa pagpipindot ng ating mga kinatatakutan.
mlq3 on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:11 pm
cjv, remember the truth commission? from 2005? instead of impeachment?
DJB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:12 pm
MLQ3,
GLADDENED, not disappointed to find that you are not “dismayed” as Leah and the Black N White Movement folks say they are over the CBCP’s pastoral letter. You are right. The noose tightens. But more importantly, all eyes are on the Senate, the institution that must rise again, take its rightful place and re-establish the balance that was destroyed by the Supreme Court in 2001.
To help this out, I have a new LEMMA about Separation of Powers for your readers based on Article XI of the Constitution (Accountability of Public Officers)–
The Congress possesses sole and exclusive judicial power in all cases of impeachment involving any of the constitutional officers of the Republic.
For all other citizens the Supreme Court has the the supreme judicial power. The Senate impeachment court has none higher in deciding ALL cases of impeachment. This only makes sense because only the Congress has no impeachable officials.
Thus Congress IS the proper Court for investigating and possibly adjudicating the President’s involvement in ZTE.
rom on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:16 pm
nihilist? i don’t reject morality or religious belief. I am not of the “viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded.” Nor do my arguments “deny any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths.”
If anything, it is the people who advocate overthrow of government that fit the alternative definition of nihilist more handily. As Merriam Webster puts it, nihilism is “a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility.”
harumph.
mlq3 on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:17 pm
smoke, noted.
Tambay on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:17 pm
Kamote
Eh di sumulong mga kapatid na kayo diyan. Bahala kayo.
The problem with you guys is that you use stupid arguments to bolster your cause. Using a very different situation to negate the argument we make.
We are still studying the evidence as presented by the witnesses (hearsay evidence by the way).
Kaya nga maraming patayan sa pilipinas kasi gusto niyo mag away agad. ( That’s the kind of kamote argument you make…. BTW, sa Bacolod, ang kamote means mentally kulang….)
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:17 pm
Tambay, with you it’s not about an exchange of ideas, is it? You are not arguing your case, right? And you just want to be left alone? So why even make a comment, just wondering. I am not saying you do not have a right to make a comment but why bother making a comment at all?
Geez, it’s like explaining to a lawyer.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:19 pm
“a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility.â€
Rom, I take it you do not want to join the Fight Club.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:22 pm
And to tell the truth, I don’t want Gloria to go just yet. I rather fantasize about her forcing her way into an extended term in 2010 with all hell breaking lose all about her [fill in music from the Pixies "Where is my Mind"].
mindanaoan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:25 pm
the CBCP statement just straightened the bishops who like to talk as if they represent the church. now we know how the majority of the bishops think. which, i guess, is also how the majority of the filipinos think.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:26 pm
“The problem with you guys is that you use stupid arguments to bolster your cause. Using a very different situation to negate the argument we make.”
Sweet.
UP n student on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:27 pm
BrianB: Tambay just made his statement.
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:28 pm
On a persnickety note:
Tambay: We are still studying the evidence as presented by the witnesses (hearsay evidence by the way).
Certainly true to a certain extent of Madriaga’s but not Lozada’s and JDVIII’s.
smoke: If anything, it is the people who advocate overthrow of government…
Not overthrow of government (at least not me). Just “overthrow” of the president (preferably via the constitutional options of resignation or impeachment). Gloria isnt the government.
Brian: Rom, I take it you do not want to join the Fight Club.
You do NOT talk about Fight Club.
Tambay on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:31 pm
BrianB
My problem is not about arguing the case with you guys. It’s about you guys calling us names and accusing us of selling out (your American influence argument) just because we have not adhered to your cause just yet. That’s the issue that I have. Just because we don’t move doesn’t mean we’re not thinking. Di lang mainit ulo namin tulad ninyo.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:31 pm
Very very sweet. His a narc, I’ll bet my caboodles.
UP n student on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:33 pm
Tambay says he is one of :
Now, you can call Tambay an idiot, or you can nurture his search for truth because Tambay is probably on your side if the truth is the truth is the truth AND if only you know how to build alliances.
UP n student on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:35 pm
BrianB: shut up for a couple of days… it may be bad for your ego but good for getting a few more bodies on this move to get GMA out of Malacanang.
Tambay on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:35 pm
Jeg
I agree with you since they’re eyewitness account as per Lozada and JDV3….but you also have to realize there may be some motivation behind it other than love of country. They have to show us the proofs, not their own words.
In Clarissa Ocampo’s case, aside from giving witness to the fact that Mr. Estrada signed the account opening forms under the name of Velarde, the handwriting experts also pointed out that the signature conforms to the ex-prez’s handwriting.
Dito, salita lang nila??? Unless they offer any other proof.
UP n student on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:36 pm
BrianB…. make it a month.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:37 pm
Truth is like the onion. In fact, the onion is one of the tuthiest sites on the intarwebs, i’ll bet my other caboodles.
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:40 pm
Tambay: They have to show us the proofs, not their own words.
Or corroborating testimony from the executively privileged Neri. They do have documentary evidence, too. Those that list China projects without NBN and with low-cost housing, tapos biglang bagong list with NBN and without low-cost housing. That corroborates Lozada’s testimony na tinanggal yung housing.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:42 pm
UP n,
I’m not in the business of recruiting people to my cause through guile or the charms of my becoming scarce. And I do not, will not and have never patronized people who prefer tagalog over English – I take it that’s your meaning.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 1:44 pm
“Tambay: They have to show us the proofs, not their own words.”
And what is the Hello Garci if not the most solid proof that was ever thrown against a president, in the history of civilization.
Kamote on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:00 pm
Tambay: They have to show us the proofs, not their own words.
Jeg: Or corroborating testimony from the executively privileged Neri. They do have documentary evidence, too. Those that list China projects without NBN and with low-cost housing, tapos biglang bagong list with NBN and without low-cost housing. That corroborates Lozada’s testimony na tinanggal yung housing.
Kamote: Or just actually listen to Gloria saying she knew there are anomalies to the ZTE deal and yet continued to sign the contract anyway.
What more proof do you need?
and oh yes I am aware about the meaning of my nick. It also kinda giving me some freedom to look sabaw sabaw
cvj on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:03 pm
mlq3, thanks for the reminder, just googled and found your past blog entries on this topic.
tess on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:10 pm
How can you ask GMA to the lead in combating corruption? She is synonymous to corruption. Common sense will tell you she will try and save her skin. Take Gaite’s example, everyone is saying he is a decent person, but was it not so obvious that he was lying? Sino po naman amg maniniwala sa kwento nya? It was preposterous, it was soo painful to watch. Since Lozada came out, we have a parade of malacanang officials lying through their teeth… Let’s not forget that it’s not just ZTE at hanggang ngayon wala pa ding nasasagot. Wala pang KATOTOHANAN.
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:17 pm
Opps announcements:
Good governance under this government is governance practiced with follow through. Ningas Cogon has no place in this government.
I shall establish immediately:
1)The Office for Presidential Denials (OPD)
2)The Commission for Presidential Commissions (attached to FG’s office).
3)The “Laser Beamâ€Office
4)The “Let’s Move On!†Office
5)The “2010 and Beyond†Study Group under Ronnie Puno
6)The New Cabinet Post of Senior Mentor for FVR
7)Foreign Affairs And Relationships Tasks (FART) under FG
And finally, good governance under this government is governance practiced with a strong sense of urgency and the need to act or decide.
I am making the much needed changes in the Cabinet and I am appointing men and women of probity:
1)Chairman of Comelec:Honorable “Hello Garciâ€Garcillano
2)Ambassador to China :â€Daddy Chairâ€Abalos
3)Ambassador to Taiwan:â€Lady Miriam Santiago
4)Ambassador to Myanmar(Burma):General Esperon
5)Truth Commission Members:General Razon,Lito Atienza,Mike Defensor
6)Social Welfare Administrator:Usec Gaite
7)Conjugal Greed Commission:Imelda Marcos
cvj on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:20 pm
Tess, if common sense were the guide, then this whole sorry episode would have been over two years ago. For better or worse, we have constrained ourselves with this or that process. It’s getting ridiculous but that’s where we are.
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:30 pm
So ayun Tambay, marami ka nang mahahanapan ng patunay kung yun ang hinahanap mo. Andyan din ang patung-patong na kaso magmula pa nung iskandalo ni Nani Perez, hanggang kay Joc-Joc Bolante, hanggang sa mga deseparesidos, at marami pang iba na inuupuan ng kasalukuyang administrasyon na tanda ng pagwawalang-bahala nito.
Pero kung sa tamang proseso mo gustong ihayag ang mga paglalahad ng ebidensiya, siguro dapat sumama ka sa panawagan sa mga Kongresista na huwag nilang harangin ang impeachment laban sa Pangulo.
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:33 pm
I have solicited taxi driver’s opinion about the current crisis the nation is facing again and the extent of their awareness. If we shall consider taxi drivers as part of the masa, then here is my way of getting the feel of the masa on the issue of theday. of the 5 drivers i randomly interviewed 4 are convinced Gloria must resign. nakakahiya na sya. kayod tayo ng kayod sila naman kurakot ng kurakot. I’d challnged them that “wala naman tayong ibedensya sa kurakot nila”. they told me that Lozada is by far believable than the testimonies of government officials.
DJB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:35 pm
One more shoe has to drop. How the Supreme Court rules on the petition of Romulo Neri based on executive privilege. I guess he has crossed all the T’s and dotted all the I’s and will cite all the steps the Court itself required in Senate v. Ermita for a valid exercise of executive privilege over what he knows. Just depends on whether they believe he has already appeared at the Senate and made a valid claim of privilege during that ill-fated, and leaky, Senate Executive Session. Which lack of security, or alleged lack of security, could be a factor in how the Court decides.
If I were Neri, I would claim that the publicity attendant upon the claimed leak by four anonymous sources becomes cause to doubt that my Constitutional rights are safe, even in a Senate executive session.
Didn’t he file for AMPARO too?
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:38 pm
pero 2 lang sa limang taxi driver would like to join rallies to pressure arroyo to step down
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:43 pm
Alas Ka Dor:good feedbacks!
The Equalizer did also a “quick and dirty ” research to get feedbacks from the general public regarding Jun Lozada,the Star Witness (or WETNESS per Sergio Apostol)in the the ZTE-NBN Scandal:
1)A Shell gas attendant: “Bilib na bilib ako kay Lozada,itinaya ang buhay para magsabi ng katotohanan”
2)A young businessman: “I admire him for his guts.But knowing the current administration,I fear for his life.I think Jun Lozada is a walking deadman!”
3)A young housewife: ” I just wonder what HER (mastermind’s) real intention in ordering the abduction of Lozada from the airport”
4)A cashier in Shell Select:”Galit na galit ako noong kinidnap si Lozada ng mga tao
ni Arroyo.
5)A lola: “Kailan kaya magagalit talaga ang tao?”
EQUALIZER COMMENT:” To the palace gang: DON’T DO ANYTHING TO JUN LOZADA WHICH YOU DON’T WANT GOD AND THE FILIPINO PEOPLE TO KNOW LATER ON!!
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:45 pm
alas ka dora
Lumalabas nag-match sa survey na 80% ng Pilipino gusto siyang mag-resign. Kailangan lang talaga abutin ang critical mass sa pagsali (o baka critical mass sa galit kaya?)
jakcast on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:46 pm
Again, why you political analysts still put premium on CBCP’s actions. Kaya pati kayo, unknowlingly, nagagamit ng Palasyo. You are “churning” a useless pronouncement. Recycled junk mail kun baga. Truth to say, CBCP has no more coercive (if I may use the term) appeal as in 1986 and 2001. Please ask people in the ground. Kaya ang maga Pilipino naniwala na lang sa mga mirakulo, healing priests dahil wala kredibilidad and mga obispo. Other civil society leaders should be admonished to disengage themselves from the Church.
mlq3 on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:56 pm
akast, i think whats happening is everyone is being given plenty of rope to hang themselves with -and chances to redeem themselves.
i’ve always felt the public goes at its own pace and so, while some are ahead and some hanging back, it will all work out for the right. meanwhile, every sector is having to make a stand and if they waffle, well, that can have a beneficial effect not necessarily to the palace’s interest.
cvj on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 2:59 pm
I share Pangilinan’s concern.
Jon Mariano on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:00 pm
When Cardinal Sin lead in the previous EDSA events, I wished he didn’t. My view is that the clergy should keep their pronouncements inside their churches whether they are for or against the administration. They should remain in their pulpits. Now if they want to join political activities, they should do what Among Ed has done; disrobe first.
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:09 pm
Haha. Jon Mariano, surely you meant defrock himself and not disrobe. Medyo iba yung dating ng disrobe.
Madonna on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:09 pm
mlq3, the “immoderate threat…” thread appears in an a funny form… your site is being hacked probably… better consult an IT expert… hmmm, not getting paranoid but could they spy on posters and commenters too and get hold of our ip addresses?… the anti-virus and anti-spyware programs in my laptop suddenly didn’t work this morning and I had to reinstall
hehe, this is getting fun
Jon Mariano on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:13 pm
Case in point, Villanueva’s call for Arroyo to call a snap election. Is he speaking as an individual or as an evangelist?
Carlo Ople on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:19 pm
I agree with the CBCP that GMA SHOULD NOT RESIGN. Let’s hold our congressmen and mayors accountable to their duty to represent us. Don’t hold people power rallies in EDSA – do it in your local municipalities or their houses (LOL). Let’s make the system work and let’s not get played by it.
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:20 pm
siguro nga kabayan kasi what i have done was a very informal te-a-te with taxi drivers on my way to work. I usually play devils advocated against their opinion. If their opiion are challenged sme taxi drivers would just keep quiet but some would really sustain a debate! yung isa sa lima hindi naman nya sinabing ayaw nyang mag resign si Gloria kaya lang ang sabi nya sa akin pare pareho lang yan kahit na sinong ilagay mo.
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:26 pm
Kaso Jon, protektado ng saligang batas ang karapatan ng mga pari na makilahok sa larangang politikal bilang mamamayan. Ang problema nila, may alituntunin ata ang Papa na huwag silang sumali sa politika at limitahan ang kanilang pakikilahok sa usaping moral. Kaya yun naman ang sinusunod nila ngayon.
Sa kaso ni Villanueva, hindi siya saklaw ng Papa kaya ayun, wala siyang problema.
Jon Mariano on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:31 pm
That’s my point Jeg, as individuals, the ordinary priests and the bishops can exercise their political rights. Pero kung isang grupo (like the CBCP), they should just keep to their own “flock”.
Jon Mariano on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:33 pm
In Villanueva’s case, he’s like the pope of his group!
Diego Torres on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:34 pm
I more than worry each time the administration puts up as defense against impeachment and even people power the glowing economy. With the lie upon lies spewed at the rate faster than the PNR train , I am almost certain that the economic numbers are fudged and IS the reason Neri is afraid to go to the senate. He might be asked the “right question” that will make him admit to fudging economic numbers.
Reasons why I suspect Neri is shaking in his drawers and resisting appearing at the senate are not exactly facing malacanang’s ire over what he would say re ZTE (malacanang has admitted to the ZTE mess already) and losing his job but:
1. Economic numbers have been fiddled with;
2. he and several others erased or “lost” the trail leading to the fiddling process;
3. that the effects of the ZTE proceeds even if these are still receivables have been included in the growth numbers.
Else, how can one explain the career trip of Neri from NEDA to the budget and back? And the others……
1-3 will certainly be worst than another people power. “Lalong hinde tayo PATATAWARAN ng mundo”(to borrow from PGMA’s speech in CAVITE) if indeed malacanang did these.
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:42 pm
JM: In Villanueva’s case, he’s like the pope of his group!
Youre right. And the JIL flock is divided on this as far as I can tell. It’s what cost him a better showing in the 2004 elections. His Luneta rally before the elections was estimated in the millions, getting the attention of the late Teddy Benigno who identified him as a leader of the future, and he even got an endorsement from Solita Monsod after Roco’s health took a turn for the worse. But when election time came, he was Garci’d (not all votes were shaved from FPJ) and some of his flock didnt vote for him. Personally I have no problem with them stepping up.
balatucan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:43 pm
benign0 :
Like I said earlier. The Church first needs to own up to its own track record of suppressing the Truth, propagating ignorance, and undermining just about every effort to implement a sound family planning infrastructure in Pinoy society.
If we make politicians’ credibility the issue here, then let’s make the Church’s credibility an issue as well.”
VERY IRRELEVANT!
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:45 pm
Personally I have no problem with them stepping up.
By ‘them’ I mean religious leaders.
cvj on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:50 pm
Diego, i agree. It is very strange that while, for the past decade (1997 to 2007), real per capita GDP has been increasing, average family income as measured by the FIES has been decreasing. Gloria Arroyo’s economic numbers could be the equivalent of Marcos’ fake World War 2 medals. At the very least, NEDA has some explaining to do.
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:53 pm
in matters of national concern, we can not ignore the participation of the catholic church as an institution. Cardinal Sin may have just wanted to express his own opinion as citizen on an issue, but the effect of what he was saying had far reaching influence than that of an ordinary citizen like a balot vendor or a taxi driver who may have expressed the same opinion. anything that he would say then was symbolic representation of the church.
I must agree with some opinion that CBCP’s less ctegorical call for a Glorias resignation will tend to douse cold water on the momentum of mass action calling for truth and accountability. To call on Gloria to lead the reform is like “asking Abu SAYAFF TO stop kidnapping. TRUE. But as MLQ3 said collective action are formed by idividual choices and conviction.
Isa pa pala sa mga opnion ng taxi drivers na nakausap ko dapat daw isara lahat ng eskwelahan mga negosyo para maka sama sya sa rally. pero kung konti lang daw di sya sasama pero gusto nya MAG RESIGN si Gloria.
Tony on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 3:58 pm
I personally support the calls for GMA to resign. I think that it is important, however, that this call continue to be led and driven by us, the lay people, and not the bishops.
As the late Dean Jeremias U. Montemayor once wrote, “In a democratic political system and under a regime of Church-State separation, political tasks and functions can be performed only by the people and their duly chosen leaders and officials. Church ministers can only illumine with the light of faith the political conscience of the people and their leaders, motivate and guide their political will with moral counseling and exhortation. But only the people can actually organize, join, support, or oppose political movements and political parties. Only the people can make a choice among a number of political alternatives, and propagate such a choice. Ultimately, only the people can fiscalize and change their own government and their own public officials, only the people can fight for and defend their political rights.
If the people cannot perform any of these functions, nobody else can do it for them. Should others do it for them, either paternalism or dictatorship will result – and in either case, the people’s freedom, dignity and personal and social development will be curtailed or lost.”
So even in rallies and demonstrations, by all means let us encourage the religious to be there. As Montemayor also said “…The religious must go out to the world. If there is a demonstration, they should go there but NOT to DIRECT the demonstration. (caps mine) But only to give moral support, if moral support should be given, or to just lend their presence to promote the dignity of the human beings who are involved. But they will not start directing the picketing. That is the work of the labor leaders.”
I think that a “new” type of people power will emerge only if the people truly lead this effort and not by somehow passing the buck (once more) to the bishops.
Jeg on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:02 pm
I think that a “new†type of people power will emerge only if the people truly lead this effort and not by somehow passing the buck (once more) to the bishops.
…and the military. There’s a people power worth striving for.
ricelander on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:04 pm
What does it take to prove a case like the NBN-ZTE? An official receipt of a bribe? An affidavit admitting to the crime? Somebody help. If I listen here to lawyers and lawyer-types, the impression I get is para bang kung ikaw ay mahuhuli sa ganitong klaseng gawain, napakalaki mo nang tanga. A little knowledge in law, it seems, can net you billions in corruption and a lot of praise for being so very very smart. A few here for instance seem to be so deliriously delighted that there is no proof up to now that would hold in court…
tess on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:07 pm
cvj, it is ridiculous. she is the president, to whom much is given much is required. she failed miserably. as for CBCP, i don’t know what they were thinking. please don’t insult our intelligence, hindi po ito soap opera, it’s real life, 90 millions lives at stake.
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:11 pm
A poem for Gloria…
Ako’y Pinoy
Ako’y Pinoy
Mapa itsura, pananalita
Mapa pagkain, pananamit
At kung ano ano pa!
Ako’y Pinoy
Pango ang ilong
Kayumangging kaligatan
Mautak at matalino!
Ako’y Pinoy
Mahilig sa adobo
Manggang hilaw at bagoong
Balut at San Miguel beer!
Ako’y Pinoy
Mahilig sa chocnut
Boy bawang
At Dirty ice cream!
Ako’y Pinoy
Marunong gumalang
Gumagamit ako ng salitang PO at OPO
Sa pakikipagusap sa mga matatanda.
Ako’y Pinoy
Gumagamit ng tabo
Habang naliligo
Para huwag magaksaya ng tubig!
Ako’y Pinoy
Lumaki ako sa Pinas
Naging OFW
Para dollar ang sweldo!
Ako’y Pinoy
Nagsasabi ng totoo
Sabi ng Bible
Masama ang sinugaling!
tess on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:13 pm
if we will let them get away with everything, how will history judge us? what will the young and the unborn say?
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:31 pm
Tess :you are 100% right!
In these critical times, I often reread the words of the American poet Archibald Macleish: ” “How shall freedom be defended? By arms when it is attacked by arms; by truth when it is attacked by lies; by democratic faith when it is attacked by authoritarian dogma. Always and in the final act, by determination and faith.”
Mita on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:39 pm
whoah…what human lives are at stake? whose lives are in peril? let’s not get too dramatic here.
what do you want? how do you get it?
what will be the results of that decision? farther down the road, when you and i are no longer around, what will be the ripple effect of the decision we make today?
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:48 pm
well said, ricelander.
Jon Mariano on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 4:57 pm
I doubt whether what we talk about here will have a significant effect to others. I would tend to believe that what’s happening is for our own beliefs/stand (whether for or against the current admin) being strengthened. That’s about it. I also believe that not many are moved to support their beliefs with actual action (e.g. joining rallies, calling for Gloria to resign, etc.) by these discussions. Most are content with analysis and desktop activism. Proof? I have none, just an observation.
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:00 pm
for all those who believe that GMA has lost her authority to represent us and the nation. For those who are able to discern truth from lies. for those who are not foolish to be fooled by the machination of this administration. join us on friday. let us walkour talk.
i shall be going there not because i am catholic,religious ar as a member of any group or civil society. i am part of the ordinary working class, a citizen of this forsaken country who believes that enough lies have been told of us, i can take no more. they must pay.
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:06 pm
@tambay
“na feeling superior sa aming mga madla na sumusubaybay sa mga nangyayari, nagmamasid at naguusisa pa”
ikaw rin please, don’t be so presumptuous with your claim of ‘aming mga madla’
just speak for yourself.
Que Sera Sera Philippines on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:17 pm
Everyone! Give Bryanb a break! Respect him for his youth, passion and idealism, if not for his lack of life experience and his sometimes irrational rash judgements. Our country needs both passion and sobriety to be a truly great nation once again! Peace to all! And thanks to MLQ for giving us a forum to expouse our views!
Que Sera Sera Philippines on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:18 pm
that should have read “espouse” not “expouse”
renmin on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:40 pm
Re skepticism about Madriaga’s testimony:
The value of his testimony lies in his placing the focus of the investigation on the role played by Leo San Miguel, Quirino de la Torre, and especially Ruben Reyes in the ZTE scam. Back in September, Joey De Venecia repeatedly mentioned that the three were always with Abalos in their meetings. Unfortunately, not one of the senators picked up this particular track in the investigation.
Ruben Reyes is of particular interest. As pointed out by Jamby, this guy is in the Garci tapes (he and Garci talk about Wahab Akbar and the plan to kidnap the election officer Rashma Halli). As pointed out by Newsbreak, he has close ties to Abalos, ISAFP (hence the bugging of Joey-Lozada conversations), as well as the First Family. In other words, he could be the key to the whole thing.
See this Newsbreak article:
http://www.newsbreak.com.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=489&Itemid=88889004
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:41 pm
. Urge the President and all the branches of government to take the lead in combating corruption wherever it is found;-CBCP
How do we urge them combat corruption?by blogging?by sitting down?by discussing our disgust with everyone? I think there must be a force strong enough to reduce government officials’ urges to lie, to cover up,to kill, to make this nation their own enterprise.
john marzan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:42 pm
if the new witness is a trojan horse, then this fellow is engaging in obstruction of justice. just like our friend bunye in 2005.
kwentongwalangkwenta on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:44 pm
I think the CBCP would actually like to call for GMA’s resignation. the problem is, they don’t feel that the clamor from the people for GMA’s resignation is strong enough.
They don’t want to sound foolish and stupid. Just imagine, the CBCP, a very reputable and formidable force in Philippine politics–which popular folklore hails as the figurative shepherd of the masses during EDSA I and II–calling for the resignation of a president for the third time but terribly fails to ignite reaction from the people. what would happen to the CBCP?
when cory and company called for GMA’s resignation during the Hello garci scandal, they all looked stupid in the end when GMA was able to survive and remained in Malacanang. The people simply did not come in numbers to heed Cory’s call. the mystique of her mass appeal and moral authority over the Filipinos was shattered. Cory never looked the same again.
I think that is what the CBCP is trying to avoid. The mystique of their moral authority over the Filipinos must be preserved at the cost of breaking consistent unity with the opposition forces. they cannot let a “too early, too soon” call for resignation to expose the myth of their political influence.
but of course, if the opposition forces work doubletime and succeed in creating the right atmosphere for GMA’s ouster, expect the CBCP to jump on the bandwagon and proclaim to the high heavens that the president should resign.
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:50 pm
sayang si joker arroyo, i admired this man since Cory’s time up to 2005. his alibis on probing questions as to where Gaite got the money and what was his intetion for loaning it to Lozada on a very generous term was moronic. what have become of this man(joker)?
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:52 pm
@alaskadora
have a good march. i’d join you if i could.
yes, it’s better to go there without any affiliation other than your own convictions.
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:56 pm
kwento, you are probably right about your reading of the CBCP advise. I am holding similar impression at the back of my mind. so let the people show force and leave the supposed bearer of light live in darkness
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 5:57 pm
@bencard
here is a document for your perusal (as suggested by old man Salonga)
“Code of Conduct and Ethical Standards for Public Officials and Employees or RA 6713″
I trust most of GMA’s violations fall under this category. I would like to hear your opinion counsel.
Take note of the operative words “Ethical” and “Standards”.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 6:08 pm
I have received news that a Memorandum Circular 108 was issued by Malacanang which is actually in effect the same as E.O. 464. If this is true then even if E.O. 464 is removed as per request by CBCP, then their efforts to remove it is useless since a Memorandum Circular 108 exist anyway.
Can anyone verify this for certain?
tonio on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 6:16 pm
so I suppose you’re the sort of person who takes things on faith, eh? how good for you and your immortal soul.
keep in mind however, that clergymen are people too. and as mortal, fallible humans, are also subject to the temptations of temporal power. so don’t go off placing too much stock in what a bunch of old men in robes think, ok?
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 6:18 pm
but of course, if the opposition forces work doubletime and succeed in creating the right atmosphere for GMA’s ouster, expect the CBCP to jump on the bandwagon and proclaim to the high heavens that the president should resign.-Kwento..
your sarcasm over the CBCP was rightly placed. may i know which side you belong? are you part of the “opposition forces” you mentioned? the reason i ask is that because i’d like to know how man we can count on to sincerely create the atmosphere force for accountabilty to happen.
Metrocom ini on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 6:24 pm
Wow! ang lakas ng brain power ng mga nagbibigay kuro dito. If only it can be harnessed to a concentrated energy to physically kick the Malacanang Palace resident evil out.
john marzan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 6:25 pm
I disagree.
alas ka dora on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 6:39 pm
I wonder why nobody in the cabinet of gma could look through the lies of GMA.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 6:44 pm
alas ka dora wrote:
They’re part of the lies.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:21 pm
those who are angry at the CBCP for its mellow statement are nothing but individuals who cannot stand on their own convictions and need someone of higher authority to float up their beliefs.
yes i am angry at the church, but for a very diff reason (mainly re their stand on population control). this statement of the bishops though have me happy, at least. for the ff reasons:
1. the bishops no longer think that they are the people’s compass on every decision the people need to make. the bishops at least realize that “politics is not their expertise.” now, if only they’ll realize that decisions on population control is also beyond their authority to dictate to others, i’ll have a much higher respect for this group.
2. the statement did not clear GMA of wrongdoing, nor espoused the stand of tolerance (which they did in statements past). dictating to the people, and giving guidance are two very diff things. i believe the bishops finally made the right distinction on this one.
3. it was not loaded with double-speak the way their other statements had been. though i still read one bit of foolishness when they called on GMA to lead the fight agst corruption. plastikan na to! it’s like asking druglords to lead the fight agst drugs. sana man lang nagpakatotoo na sila at yung civil servants, congressmen, and senators na lang ang hinamon nila para dito. much better, kung yung mga tao mismo ang hinamon nila para mangunahan sa laban sa korapsyon.
4. this forces the people to ACT ON THEIR OWN and STOP WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO LEAD THEM.
no one will lead you except yourselves! and no one can fight for your rights, freedoms except yourselves! stop fence-sitting and make a stand now! pro or against GMA, i don’t care as long as your convictions are fully behind it!
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:29 pm
“Everyone! Give Bryanb a break! Respect him for his youth, passion and idealism,”
Que sera, UP n is half my age. Please direct your patience to him.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:32 pm
“sayang si joker arroyo”
Older people have this arbitrary way of coming into a conclusion. Something in Joker’s brain must have just clicked and made him a loyalist. I dunno. Hope I’m not discriminating too much.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:37 pm
BrianB wrote:
Asked the same thing myself. Wrote an article in my link about him and the whys of it.
Tambay on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:40 pm
@ nash
pasensiya ka na lang. I didn’t mean to speak for others. But it just galls me that just because people don’t seem to agree with the majority stance here, you start name calling and make accusations of impropriety.
@ricelander
Nobody is deliriously happy that no proof is given. Pero point is, kung walang proof, anong gagawin mo, bitayin yung tao porke’t sabi ng iba diyan may ginawa siya? Yun lang ba ang batayan? Ang pananalita ng ilang tao. Eh kung ganun. sabihin ko lang na nagnanakaw ka at gagawa lang ako ng istorya na kapani-paniwala, tapos ka na rin.
You do need solid proof to back up the accusation. Or else, all you’ve worked for to get this person to trial will be for naught. Useless. Kasi, itatapon lang. Dapat kasi, nuon pa lang, Hello Garci pa lang, kayong mga ayaw sa kanya, hinanapan niyo na ng butas ang pangulo. Hindi yung sinasayang ang oras na sumigaw sa kalye. Build an airtight case. And then work on the congressmen one by one. Show them the solid proof. You wasted 2 years knashing your teeth and shouting she should go without offering anything. In short, tamad kayong magtrabaho para itaboy yung kinamumuhian niyo. Di niyo tinapat ang galing ninyo sa galing niya.
Sa Pilipinas, madaling gumawa ng storya. Ask the poor, madalas din sila gawan ng storya para makulong sila di ba? We feel for them also. But what is good for the goose should also be good for the gander, di ba?
I hope this clarifies why I am at this point listening and observing what is going on. It doesn’t mean I don’t agree with you. It just means I want to be fair. Just because you feel they’re not fair doesn’t mean we have stoop to their level.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:41 pm
“if the new witness is a trojan horse,”
Kind of like that guy who filed an impeachment again.
“Urge the President and all the branches of government to take the lead in combating corruption wherever it is found;”
Yep, taken intelligently, this sentence sounds like an absolution. Taken obliquely pinoy-style, the Bishops are telling the Prez to “change.” Parang nagpaparinig.
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:42 pm
“I hope this clarifies why I am at this point listening and observing what is going on.”
Tambay, what is your opinion on the Hello Garci tape?
Tambay on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 7:53 pm
I personally think it was a mistake for her to have talked to Garci since he was a commissioner. On the other hand, I have heard other parts of the tape and there’s quite a number of administration and opposition politicians who have spoken to Garci also. So for me, patas lang yan.
I am sorry if you don’t agree with me. But that’s my take of that whole sorry episode.
As for ZTE, once there is solid proof of shenanigans….it might just change my mind. Hearsay for me is hearsay
BrianB on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 8:03 pm
So you don’t care that the law says she cannot talk to a comelec official during election day, much less discuss about delaying canvassing and other equally suggestive topics re elections? You just care that she is not the only one doing it?
jakcast on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 8:44 pm
In trying to moderate the outrage: If this political crisis is allowed to be resolved in the streets again, I feel that the instability and weakening of the state institutions would bring the country nearer to what is described in international relations as a “failed state.” The Philippines has shown these signs: “extreme political corruption, judicial ineffectiveness, military interference in politics, cultural situations in which traditional leaders wield more power than the state over a certain area but do not compete with the state, etc.”
Please remember, there are still unfinished business and unresolved issues from the upheavals of 1986 and 2001. Our leaders, both of government and civil society, should be aware of unintended consequences.
manuelbuencamino on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:02 pm
EO 464 has been defanged by the Supreme Court. That’s why revoking it won’t mean squat. When was the ;ast time you heard the Palace invoke it?
Ever since Neri, Palace has been using Executive Privilege not EO 464.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:39 pm
manuelbuencamino,
I’ve heard that Malacanang is using Memorandum Circular 108 to replace E.O. 464 and was said for all intents serve the same purpose. Is this true?
UP n student on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:42 pm
In the blogosphere, smoke wrote :
In real life post 1986 EDSA, the phenomenon of People Power has become commoditized. It is now considered something like a weapon, if you will, to be wielded by the discontented. Granted, some of the leading thinkers of the discontented consider it an instrument of last resort, but the mere fact that it is presumed to be a … Damoclean sword that can be dropped at will already bespeaks of a cynicism that runs totally counter to the fundamental premise of People Power.
Invoking ‘wide support’ as a principal criteria for validity, and saying that resort to People Power (again, the imagery of a falling sword is apropos) is a question merely of whether “enough of us have come to the conclusion that it must happen,†effectively absolves the people power crowd from any responsibility for their collective action. It doesn’t matter if your reasons for people-powering are wrong; all that really matters is that we all agree. That’s like a hive mentality.
———–
EDSA-march is obviously NOT a nationwide election.
EDSA-march can be viewed as a battle maneuver (to bypass impeachment) that seeks the concentration of a large-enough body count in metro-Manila in general, and the Malacanang gates in particular, to execute a move.
Bencard on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:42 pm
a liar “corroborating” another liar produces a bigger lie.
the philippine senate is the last place on earth to find “truth”. it is the best place to hear gossip and character assassinations.
john marzan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:44 pm
therefore, meaningless ang panawagan ng CBCP.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:47 pm
guys, may tanong lang ako. ipalagay natin presidential election day na at pupunta ka sa election pricinct para bumuto, pwede mo bang punitin ang balota mo?
nawalan ka ng tiwala sa election.
kasi kapag ganyan lang ang ginagawa natin na kung ayaw na natin sa presidente ay kusa na lang tayong magmamartsa sa lansangan at tanggalin ang nakaupong presidente.
let the debate begin.
TheColdKing on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:48 pm
Corrupt Bishops Corrupt President!
What do you expect from the organization that was behind the Inquisition, and more recently the Gay Pedophilia scandals in the US?
Tama nga ang mga Protestante, Anti-Christ nga ang Simbahang Katoliko…
hvrds on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 9:53 pm
It is off the utmost necessity that the SC decides on the issue of E.O 464. You have the classic challenge to the idea of the separate but equal but interdependent branches of government.
The call it check and balance.- The military role was ultimately responsible for Big Mike and Gma’s rise to the throne.
That reality alone has made everyone look once again for the military to intervene.
The prize of seizing state power and its power to create wealth can only be balanced by the maintenance and strengthening of the institutions created to check and balance the power of the different economic agents in the political economy.
Government, Big Business and the working class. The Catholic Church is clearly drawing the prophetic vision that it is the government itself that should take the lead. But the role of the other agents act as the ultimate check and balance to make sure the institutions do work out.
Those who are now engaged should keep up the pressure on the institutions themselves.
Why worry about Noli when and if the process works to ferret out the truth of what happened executivepower would have been brought down a notch.
The process had exposed for all to see the danger of giving too much power to executive to increase the debt load of the country with impunity.
Moving to put in place the measures to ‘teach a man to fish’ is not sexy and is time consuming grinding work. The effects are to be felt in the medium and long term.
Unfortunately the politicos have turned public office as the main economic activity in the country. That cancer will take time to shrink and excise out.
Ultimately going to the streets will make sure the people themselves are reminded that things are amiss.
Unfortunately the varied groups are still competing amongst themselves as to who will benefit from any change that might happen.
The Philippine state has created its own safety net not due to governments doing but due to the failure of government. External factors and labor migration is keeping the country afloat.
The increase in oil prices in 1972 forced the state to trade human resource for oil.
We are still pretty much doing the same thing today.
Proving once again that it is “labor” that creates property. It is too bad people are still too dumb to see that.
vic on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:02 pm
mang_isko, to make a protest vote you can cross out your ballot and that would be counted as “protest vote” without any vote going to any candidate, but destroying a ballot is a believe a violation of Election Code. That is true to most jurisdictions.
We used to have a Protest Party called Rhinoceros Party where Protesters will cast their votes to the candidates of the Party, but the Party agreed to dissolve itself when the Electoral body agreed to change the process by simply agreeing the simple crossing out of ballot as means of Protest…
Anonymous on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:02 pm
example:
Mike Defensor corroborating Toting Bunye.
Bunye – I have two disks, one original the other spliced.
Defensor – It’s Gloria’s voice, but it’s not her speaking.
Good example?
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:06 pm
Gloria Arroyo’s:WORST DEAL with CHINA!Sell-out on Spratlys!!!
WORST THAN EVEN THE INFAMOUS ZTE-NBN DEAL!!!
Salient Points:
*Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo’s hurried trip to China in late 2004 produced a major surprise.
*Manila has given a certain legitimacy to China’s legally spurious “historic claim†to most of the South China Sea.
*The Philippines has made breathtaking concessions in agreeing to the area for study, including parts of its own continental shelf not even claimed by China and Vietnam.
*Some would say it was a sell-out on the part of the Philippines!
*President Arroyo’s agreement with China for a joint seismic study was controversial in several respects. By not consulting other Asean members beforehand, the Philippines abandoned the collective stance that was key to the group’s success with China over the South China Sea.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:08 pm
john marzan wrote:
If true, ganoon na nga ang mangyayari
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:10 pm
Worse John Marzan, Malacanang has a back up cover-up policy in the form of Memorandum Circular 108
mang_kiko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:11 pm
“the philippine senate is the last place on earth to find “truthâ€. it is the best place to hear gossip and character assassinations.”
Isama na natin dyan ang Bahay nang Representatives, mas lalo manga Tuta ang meyembro do-on, puede pa madala sa “brown envelope”, pero kong gusto mo ang pinaka-una sa lahat, basahin mo ang manga BIBIG nang Alipores ni GMA, di magsundo ang kasinunggalingan nila, sama na yong sa Ama. Ina-amin na ni GMA na may anomaliya yong Kontrata, sunod na Araw sabi naman ni Bunye Wala namam daw. hayayay…
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:13 pm
The Equalizer,
Not surprising if Gloria sells us out by surrendering the Spratlys and other areas of the Philippines if it makes her a Multi-Billionaire.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:18 pm
just to remind you guys, nagsimulang magsulpotan ang mgs camps ng china noong paalisin natin military bases ng U.S.
false or unintelligent nationalism ang pinairal natin sa ating mga pag-iisip.
alam naman po natin na wala tayong kakayahan na magbantay sa mga islang yan.
ngayon sisinghot-songhot tayo.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:21 pm
Mang Isko,
Ano ibig mong sabihin? Ibigay na lang sa Tsina ang natitirang Spratly islands at hahayaan nating si Gloria ang gagawa ng “transaksyon”. Sino linoko ni Gloria.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:22 pm
If proven true, Gloria and her cohorts is guilty of Treason.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:24 pm
kahit nga taiwan, nagpagawa pa ng airport base sa isang isla na kung saan may claim tayo. wala din tayong nagawa kasi itinakwil natin ang isang lahi ng tao na tumutulong sa atin.
ito ang napala natin.
magsikap na lang tayong umunlad at kung very rich na tayo bumili tayo ng isang aircraft carrier.
hehehehe
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:28 pm
mang_isko,
Ang issue dito ay ang reports na INTENTIONALLY bibitawan ni Gloria ang Spratlys at siya ang magta-Transact.
Better still, remove Gloria since she is apt to sell the Philippines a piece at a time.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:29 pm
If true, then Gloria is guilty of TREASON and the military knows the penalty for such high treason.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:35 pm
walang nagsasabi na ipamigay ang spratleys. perception mo lang yong pinamimigay ni gloria ang ibang islands sa lugar na yao.
dapat hindi tayo nabulag sa nakamit nating kalayaan noong 1986 hanggang sa macompromise pa ang ating national integrity.
hindi kasi natin kinonsidera ang sitwasyon. tingnan mo ang japan at south korea, hindi sila nabu-bully ng china.
bakit? kasi nandyan ang U.S. na handang tumulong.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:41 pm
mang isko,
Malalaman natin ang katotohanan sa di matagal na panahon. Natatabunan pa ng ZTE ang ibang pang posibleng katarantaduhan ng rehimeng ito.
Kung totoo nga na may tagong kilos si Gloria na isuko ang Spratlys, maski sino pang de kampanilyang abugago ang kunin niya, di siya tatantanan ng mga nagmamahal sa bansang Pilipinas.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:44 pm
kung sa ikinakatakot mo na ipapamigay ni gloria yaong mga isla at granting, without accepting, na si gloria ay maalis nyo. yong papalit ba makakapigil sa china na huwag angkinin ang spratleys?
eh, mga kasama nyo chinese or MAO symphatizer!
paano nyo yan marereconcile?
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:48 pm
Kung meron man MAO sympathizer dito eh yung amo mo. Mahilig makipagtrasact sa Tsina, balak pa i-paupa ang 2 Million Hectares ng Philippine agricultural land at ngayon naman Spratlys. Ginagawa niyong dahilan ay “Di naman natin mapapagtanggol ang Spratly eh kaya ibenta na lang natin ng ilang Bilyon”. Kung may malapit kay MAO ang amo mong si Gloria yun. At kung susundin natin ang takbo ng utak mo dahil pinagtatanggol mo si Gloria na maka-MAO ikaw rin ay tauhan ng isang maka-MAO. Di ba Joseph McCarthy?
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:49 pm
“di siya tatantanan ng mga nagmamahal sa bansang Pilipinas.” – kabayan
sabi ko kanina maging intelihente tayo sa pagiging makabansa natin. we cannot do this by our selves. sa terrorism pa lang, palpak na tayo.
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:50 pm
kaya lang naman tayo nakapit sa mga batong yan sa spratlys dahil sa hinala natin may langis sa ilalim ng mga yan.
better still to make it a a fish and wildlife sanctuary for all the countries involved para may hanap-buhay ang mga mangingisda.
i’m not going to war for that ano at kung ano pang nationalist ek-ek ng dahil lang sa langis…buti ng maubos ang langis sa mundo para matuto tayong maglakad.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:50 pm
Sundin pa natin ang lohiko mo, dahil dikit ng dikit si Gloria sa ZTE at may Cyber Ed deal pa na under sa Tsina, ang ibig sabihin noon ay mas matinding maka-MAO siya di ba. At dahil pinagtatanggol mo siya, mas mataas ang ranko mo sa hanay ng maka-MAO, Cadre ka na niyan di ba.
jakcast on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:52 pm
mlq3: could we ask the political analysts of a “roadmap” on where we want to bring this crisis to end. I’ve not seen any credible plan from the opposition. Heard from Senate Pres (“Bahala na ang tao”)Such tool could assist civil society and maybe of the rest, including the cabinet, of constitutional options. We don’t want to play this as we go along, do we?
1. Increase pressure on GMA (from Dr. Randy David)
2. In case GMA is pressured to resign, constituional successor is VP Noli (?)
3. If she doesn’t, ?
4
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:53 pm
nash,
That’s actually a good idea.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:53 pm
ito ang mga klasing mga tao, si kabayan, na kapag natatalo sa argumento, nagla-label ng kung ano-ano.
we are talking about the national integrity tapos sasabihin mong nagtatanggol kay gloria sa pamimigay ng spratleys.
mali yata ang takbo ng argumento mo.
sayang ka kaibigan!
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 10:58 pm
mang isko,
What are you saying? We give up our independence, our autonomy? To live in the shadows of foreigners even in our own shores? It may look like a mess now (or most of the time) but the key is – we are doing something about it, it there is an imbalance, we work to balance things out. Its not the establishment of homeostasis per se that makes us better men but our ability to work on it. As long as we are willing to work for what we need, we’re on the right track. We can’t just give up and let others do our job for us, its like mommy doing our assignments all over again…
Walk tall. Walk proud…
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:01 pm
mang_isko,
Haha sinong galit, sinusundan ko lang ang lohikong ginagamit mo mang isko, para naman marinig mo kung sino ka kung ibang tao ang magsasalita.
Maige pa makinig ka kay ramrod nang may matutunan ka.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:02 pm
be open ramrod, is japan and south korea surrender their independence to the U.S?
are they not free?
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:02 pm
are they not proud?
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:02 pm
The “SPRATLY ISLANDS SELL-OFF and ZTE Scandal are the end-results of a very dangerous game of Gloria.She played the China card too far this time.
She even called China the “BIG BROTHER” of the Philippines. The Americans were raising the red flag on this issue for a long time.
Every contract with a Chinese company was presented almost as if it were “manna from Heaven”.
Look at the government spin on the ZTE contract: “Nearly a billion dollars worth of new investments in 12 hours.That’s the way things looked like for President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo in her brief stay in this picturesque coastal town Saturday as she “came and went like a thief in the night,” bringing with her an avalanche of Chinese investments to the tune of $904.38 million.”
Why did she play the China card too far? I see two obvious reasons:
1)To attract the attention of the Americans-Gloria had fallen from the good graces of Americans after the “Angelo De La Cruz” episode.She therefore wanted to use the “China Card” as a leverage with them.
2)To generate income for the Pidal Dynasty-This was the more important reason.In addition to the ZTE deal,how many other BIG-TIME contracts have been concluded with Chinese firms by the GMA administration?
ONE GLARING EXAMPLE:The government decided to lease to China’s Jilin Fuhua Agricultural Science and Technology Development Co., Ltd. (Fuhua Co.) some one million hectares of Philippine land under vague terms. The area covers about a tenth of all Philippine agricultural land!!!
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:03 pm
China, etc. encroaching on our sovereignty do so because they were allowed. Not unlike our contryman who showed the Americans where they can get a vantage point to Tirad Pass allowing snipers to kill Gen. Gregorio del Pilar.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:03 pm
Ang kawaw ngayon ay ang mga sundalong lumalaban sa inang bayan pero ang Commander in chief nila balak i-divert ang housing funds nila.
Kabayan on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:04 pm
Correction: Ang kawawa ngayon ay ang mga sundalong…
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:09 pm
mang isko,
The US treats South Korea with disdain, they believe that by just giving them cold cash and they’ll toe the line and how much are they paying for their bases in Japan? I am not against US bases per se as long as we set the terms not the US. With the right approach, we can make the gringo work for us.
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:11 pm
“China, etc. encroaching on our sovereignty do so because they were allowed. Not unlike our contryman who showed the Americans where they can get a vantage point to Tirad Pass allowing snipers to kill Gen. Gregorio del Pilar.Ramrod”
Sir Ramrod:The modern “Makapilis” are selling our country wholesale to China.First class “Lutong Makaw!They are converting our country into another province of China!
I have Chinese blood but every fibre of my body is against
the desecration of our National Sovereignty.
Gloria is a TRAITOR.
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:13 pm
kabayan,
Sinabi mo pa. We have soldiers detained on Conduct Unbecoming charges, dito pa lang, we can see that the Rule of Law does not exist in the Philippines, its who has the power…Must power be in the hands of corrupt officials, in the Oligarchs? or shall we give POWER back to the PEOPLE? PEOPLE POWER.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:14 pm
yon nga pino-point ko kanina. they are using their nationalism correctly and intelligently.
tingnan mo hindi nabu-bully ng china ang japan at south korea.
look at taiwan, kung wala ang U.S. na tumutulong matagal na yang ibinalik sa china.
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:16 pm
@bencard
ramrod brings us another excellent point – “Conduct Unbecoming”
Do you think, counsel, that GMA passes this with flying colours?
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:17 pm
wala sa atin dito mga ang gustong ipamigay kahit anong parte ng bansa natin sa ibang lahi.
ang sa akin matutu tayong gumamit ng nationalism.
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:18 pm
@equalizer
China (the government, not the people) will be a bully anywhere you put them, in Africa, in the middle of Europe, malas lang natin that it is in Asia…because they need the resources to feed that population of theirs…
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:19 pm
China’s bottom line on joint development of Spratly Islands at that time: “What is mine is mine and what is yours is ours.”Gloria agreed.
“Sold the idea by politicians with business links who have other deals going with the Chinese, Ms. Arroyo did not seek the views of her foreign ministry, Philippines officials say. By the time the foreign ministry heard about it and objected, it was too late, the officials say.”
Far East Economic Review(February 2008)
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:20 pm
mang isko,
I know you as well as the other bloggers here care, though we have different ways of showing it, yes, even benigno’s sick tough love approach. The mere thought of us taking time to blog (when we could be doing something else) shows it.
I get your point re relationship with US but it will take a strong political will form us and most especially our leaders to assert ourselves in the presence of a super power. Unfortunately, as Equalizer has pointed out, we are continously being pimped by someone for money.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:21 pm
ang tanong nakulong lang ba sila dahil lang sa conduct unbecoming?
wala ba silang nagawang kaguluhan?
magmuni-muni po tayo mga kaibigan.
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:24 pm
NASH:Darfur.
China has been criticised for not doing enough to stop widespread killing in the Sudanese region of Darfur.
One reason Beijing stands behind Sudanashir is oil. China is trying to diversify its oil sources beyond the crisis- prone Middle East, and Africa is one obvious alternative. Already, 7 percent of China’s imported oil comes from Sudan.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:25 pm
ang sa akin lang kung sa china na lang tayo magpapagawa ng broadband na alam naman natin na tuso ang china, dapat eh, sa U.S. na lang sana ang gumawa.
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:27 pm
@equalizer,
not just sudan, every african state you would not touch with a 10 foot pole, china has a big economic presence (ie, building the airport in zimbabwe…etc…)
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:27 pm
“Some would say it was a sell-out on the part of the Philippines,†says Mark Valencia, an independent expert on the South China Sea. The designated zone, a vast swathe of ocean off Palawan in the southern Philippines, thrusts into the Spratlys and abuts Malampaya, a Philippine producing gas field. About one-sixth of the entire area, closest to the Philippine coastline, is outside the claims by China and Vietnam.
sir Ramrod:
Walang Maka Tao,Maka Pilipino sa administration.It’s all about the megabucks!
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:29 pm
mang isko,
The case filed is Conduct Unbecoming, take time to look at it, go to the hearings, read the charge sheet, if there is one its not signed even. They are there because someone just wants them there, period, no legal basis, perhaps if its martial law its okay.
Then again, we can only hope for some changes…for the better I mean…
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:31 pm
I don’t believe you go to jail for more than two years for making “kaguluhan?” If that were the case, the people involved in bar fights would be in big trouble.
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:32 pm
“we are continuously being pimped by someone for money.”
The Philippines for sale! (or garage sale)
To be honest,the pimping has been unprecendented under the Pidal couple.They are on the verge of making the Marcoses look like amateurs!
UP n student on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:34 pm
mag_isko: there is a specific law in the US against giving bribes (even if the bribes are to foreign officials or whoever and even if the competition for the contract gives bribes)
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:36 pm
Spratlys, is it worth the effort? It’s an uninhabitable outcrop between 6 countries.
Options:
1. Maintain the status quo with all countries putting up a shanty on every rock they can lay their boots on – No economic gains for everyone, but it will cost everyone money and only the people who sell weapons will be happy
2. Spread the love – exclude it and make it an international wildlife sanctuary with zero commercial exploration so that our fish stocks are replenished
3. Military solution – annexe the entire chain of rocks by force because we want the supposed “oil” buried under the reefs. Zero sum game. Who do we pick a fight with first? The Malaysians? Brunei? Taiwan? Vietnam (remember, these guys beat the French and the USA, so what are our chances..) Hmmm, maybe the Chinese? In my humble opinion, I think a good military general will not send ill-equipped soldiers to their deaths.
Nah, I think I will settle for number 2.
just thinking out loud…
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:37 pm
Anyway, we all do what we need to do just as long as we do something…I still believe in the Pinoy. Given the opportunity, anywhere, anytime, we have this propensity to work hard, work smart, and overcome…
UP n student on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:38 pm
nash: Dubya wants to send US troops into Darfur.
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:39 pm
nash,
No. 2 is the proactive choice I believe.
The Equalizer on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:40 pm
NASH
President Arroyo’s agreement with China for a joint seismic study was controversial in several respects. By NOT consulting other Asean members beforehand, the Philippines abandoned the collective stance that was key to the group’s success with China over the South China Sea.
mang_isko on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:42 pm
alam mo ramrod, kung ang isang sundalo ay may hinaing laban sa isang gobyerno at magdadala ng kanyang armas at makikipagpatayan sa mga kinauukulan, tatawa lang ba ang gobyerno?
kung gusto mo talagang isambulat ang katiwalian ng pamahalan, lumabas sa pagiging sundalo at ituloy ang iyong advocacy.
sa mga panahon ngayon meron ba tayong naririnig at nakikita sa western civilization na isang sundalo nag-alsa dala ang armas penagre-resign ang leader ng country?
only in the phils.
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:42 pm
UP n student,
Its another racket, someone gets a certain percentage of the budget for these soldiers (in Usd) everytime we have something like this. The net for the soldiers is still substantial though, most save enough during sorties like these to put up a small business in Pinas after.
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:47 pm
mang isko,
I will not expect you to see their point of view, but to put it simply, their actions were commensurate to the degree of threat posed by this government as the recent events have shown. For every action there is an equal opposite reaction – that is, if you are designed to react at all? Kung “wala lang” , “k lang, here na me,wer n u?” ka lang, there’s nothing much I can do…
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:51 pm
@equalizer
thanks for pointing that out. so ibig bang sabihin ay nag-tag team tayo with China?
oh well, trust GMA to break the peace.
Hmmm, parang I change my mind…we can beat the other countries into submission…(just joking)
I still go for the love everyone approach…I’d rather have good neighbours (especially that our fishing areas nearly overlap with them). You can’t put a price tag on that.
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:52 pm
@UP n,
maniniwala lang ako pag andun na. they had chances to stop the genocide ages ago…ibag klasing ‘world police’ kasi sila, selective…
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:53 pm
mang isko,
“Only in the Phils” buti nga ganyan lang. In some countries they bomb their leaders, snipe them pa, some hang them, poison them, and some even worst, pati families nila pinapatay.
If facing your enemy head on and saying to him (or her) waht you really felt isn’t palatable to you, so what? The question of the hour is, what can you do for the good of humanity? If you have an answer, just do it…
spliceanddice on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:53 pm
With the CBCP taken aback by the eruption of the public sentiment, either for or against the administration, one begins to wonder what else is not new within the past four years or so. At least it’s a consolation to have that sense of irony, that this nation is becoming more naive and more outraged both at the same time. But at the most, one cannot easily disregard the mounting public outcry for the ouster of GMA. And the reasons why can never be something highly commendable for GMA, or something in which the administration can pin to themselves as a badge of honor.
To begin with, GMA’s infamous appeal to finish her term until 2010 is off the point precisely because she’s not even the president of this country. Whatever happened to “Hello, Garci”, it’s something our history can never be proud of.
And so we have those who seek refuge in the midst of uncertainty, those who take the ‘neutral’ side, perhaps not knowing where to go, or perhaps not knowing anything at all. Even more so, some are balancing the good and bad sides of things when the good is knowingly the side to take.
And so you have an illegitimate president with the wanton disregard for transparency, with the fear for China since God or Allah must have made the world and the rest is made in China, with the callous preference for the economy when you have an economy which cannot even account for the moral bankruptcy.
To say the least, we cannot just choose the middle road and embrace a decision that falls nowhere between the good of GMA and the good of the nation. GMA’s purported economic gains are presumed to be glaring and stares us right in the face, yet I could not even taste it. You assume the credit for the economic gains of this nation, you take away the credit from the OFWs who toil for the benefit of their families at the least and of the nation at the most. It’s more than evil. It’s grotesquely horrendous beyond moral salvation.
nash on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:55 pm
@ramrod
siguro you are also familiar with the fact that the bullets and armaments of the bandits in the south are the same as that of the soldiers…
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:58 pm
nash,
But no 2 only works if there is mutual respect for everyone concerned. How do you gain respect from a bully then? You must always have an ace up your sleeve…
ramrod on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 11:59 pm
“siguro you are also familiar with the fact that the bullets and armaments of the bandits in the south are the same as that of the soldiers…” – nash
Yes. Shamefully, sold to them by soldiers…
ramrod on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:02 am
Gotta go guys, early day tomorrow again!!!Watch yourselves!
nash on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:07 am
@ramrod
“But no 2 only works if there is mutual respect for everyone concerned. How do you gain respect from a bully then? You must always have an ace up your sleeve…”
Ah yes…that big white elephant in the room eventually sneezes..
It will be a tough diplomatic struggle, no doubt. Still, it’s better to try hard on this aspect than send our children to their deaths over a silly piece of real estate…
ramrod on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:12 am
nash,
I agree, I don’t believe in needless deaths. Life is too precious and too short to waste…
Tambay on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:19 am
BrianB
If the law says that…then the book should not be thrown only at her but to all candidates who have spoken with the commissioners. Di puede selected lang. Yun actually ang problema ko sa mga anti GMA….dapat kung lahat may kasalanan, including GMA, lahat tanggal.
nash on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:21 am
Uunahan ko na po ang mga rah-rah boys/girls ni GMA
“The Philippines gained slightly in the Human Development Index, but went below several notches in ranking among other nations, according to the United Nations Development Program. In its 2007-2008 report, the UNDP said the HDI value of the Philippines is 0.771 up from the 2006 level of 0.763.”
Hip hip hurray! GMA’s economic gains are trickling to the masses!
nash on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:22 am
@tambay,
patay na yung isang nandaya at tumawag kay garci so hindi na siya pwidi kasuhan (barbers sr.)
cvj on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:51 am
Nash, the Human Development Index (HDI) is a composite of four variables: Life Expectancy, Adult Literacy Rate, Enrollment Ratio and per capit GDP. Comparing the latest report (which covers 2005) with the previous year’s (which covers 2004):
Life expectancy at birth increased slightly from 70.7 in the previous report to 71 years (+3.6 months).
Adult literacy rate stayed the same at 92.6% for both the previous and latest reports.
Entrollment ratio deteriorated from 82% in the previous report to 81.1%.
Per Capita GDP increased from 4,614 US Dollars (PPP) to 5,137 US Dollars.
The above means that the bulk of the increase of the HDI is because of increase in GDP per capita since the other variables had minimal change. However, we also know that per Capita GDP increase is the variable that is most questionable because the FIES presents contradictory data. So i would take that increase in HDI with a grain of salt.
nash on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:08 am
@cvj
I wonder how they will spin it tomorrow?
1. HDI increased, wohoo!
2. But ranking decreased, bleh!
Hmm, dong puno must be having sleepless nights….
hvrds on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:20 am
Civilization requires the forum for resolving all forms of disputes. Sometimes these institutions break down and they become the cause of the instability. Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon and brought his army into Rome. Worse he brought Cleopatra into the picture. They killed him right in the Senate.
Today there are assertions of fact by certain people that our Queen and her husband are thieves. The political institutions have the right to delve into the issue as for them these are simply allegations. It is but natural thatanyone angling to become the next King or Queen will jump on this issue. That is what checks and balances mean.
If the executive shoots itself on the foot what do you expect the people who wish to succeed the Queen do? But when this starts resonating with more people then the general public will be drawn in and demand an inquiry.
Probable Cause has been established. We have not yet gotten to the standards point of beyond a reasonable doubt. That belongs to the trail itself.
However these allegations have become more serious. The Queen and her husband now are saying that it is time to stop these legal forums outside her jurisdiction and let the institutions under her take over the inquiry.
Unfortunately the independent constitutional authorities under the law, the COMELEC, the Ombudsman and even the COA have been co-opted and overpowered by her power over the dispensation of state largesses. Include in that the Lower House. No matter what we think of the individual senators that is the what country has right now standing over almost total control of the executive. Hence the targets of the government is the Senate itself. Read through all the blogs and see the intensity of the attacks on the Senate and the almost rabid attacks on the left. In spite of the almost Popish control of the extreme left by Joma, his message is politically correct as far as the root causes of the problems of the country. His group has lost all authority to be the messengers.
In this age of mass communication and instant messaging controlling the message has become the main game. The Church’s message on the media is meant for both sides.
Three TV channels are under government control. Only two papers have some sort of independent editorial board. The Inquirer and the Business World. The rest play the game with whomever is in power. The government has deep pockets. Remember that our financial system is simply a subsidiary of the U.S. state. Uncle Sam controls the gold and the guns that control the Philippines. As long as the dollar is the primary reserve of the Philippines, even our transactions with China is denominated in dollars comes under the purviews of the Federal Reserve. Citibank is our unofficial central bank. All dollar transactions are cleared though Citi.
ABS-CBN is somewhat independent. But if anyone has money to spend on any issue there are PR companies that will facilitate your message getting across with some newscasters and commentators in ABS-CBN.
The line between journalistic integrity is hard to define. Money talks and ethical standards sometimes have to match ones standards of living. The Monsods are typical of this problem. They used their closeness to the state to get to where they are today. The back room channeling at all levels of the institutions of the State are all well known.
Even former Chief Justice Panganiban admitted that when there are controversial issues before the court, they a receive pressure. It is common ethical practice that all ex-parte representations to a judge that this be made public to the parties involved in the conflict. U.S. Justice Scalia who went hunting with VP Cheney was asked to recuse himself from an issue concerning the VP. He refused since it was obvious that it was public knowledge.
The Church is demanding that people be more discerning and start to use their rational coconuts and not the rantings and ravings of simians.
cvj on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:32 am
Nash, the admin can spin by saying that the previous report had only 159 countries while the present report has 177. That means that in terms of percentage ranking, there was an improvement from 52.5% in the previous report to 50.5% in the current one.
Nevertheless, no matter how they spin it, the fact is that the component that is mainly responsible for such an increase, i.e. per capita GDP, is itself suspect. The unreliability of the per capita GDP figure has directly contaminated the HDI.
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:33 am
nash, to answer your questions, a sitting president cannot be removed, or prosecuted, except through impeachment. he/she cannot be indicted for a criminal offense while in office.
as far as i can see, there has been no allegation, much less admissible evidence, tending to show direct culpability of the president for any crime, either as principal or accomplice. on the basis of current allegations against her, i doubt very much that any vindictive prosecution after she finished her term would be successful. any talk, or attempt, to file a criminal complaint now against her is, i believe, nothing more than a cheap political charade designed to inflame the gullible in society.
btw, lynching is out of the question unless the anarchists (from both sides of the ideological world) have their day.
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:51 am
“probable cause has been established”. hvrds.
really? then where’s the indictment? and who “established” it? not the senate, i hope. i don’t think the senators are fit to determine “probable cause”.
supremo on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:52 am
“roadmapâ€
Why not put the pressure on De Castro? He is more vulnerable. No one will rescue him. Not even GMA.
The next in line is Villar. That guy is playing safe. He should step down as Senate President.
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:02 am
supreme, and what, may i ask, do you mean by “pressure”? fabricate some scandal; have it investigated by the senate; parade false witnesses; put la salle nuns and “brothers” in the gallery; have abs-cbn t.v. patrol crow about it day in and day out – until he resigns?
hawaiianguy on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:20 am
mindanaoan: “the CBCP statement just straightened the bishops who like to talk as if they represent the church. now we know how the majority of the bishops think. which, i guess, is also how the majority of the filipinos think.”
I beg to disagree. There’s no + correlation between how the bishops think and the masa thought. If a correlation does exist, it could be zero or insignificant.
You must be from Mindanao, right? You must know Bishop Capalla and Fr. Quiboloy who think the same way with respect to Gloria.
But have you ever heard Bishop Tony Ledesma speak? Have you heard how the ulama and the whole bishopry take the situation, as compared to how Mindanaoans do?
Don’t invoke the national, just the region where you supposedly come from or live. Maybe you got something interesting to say?
hvrds on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:23 am
“nash, to answer your questions, a sitting president cannot be removed, or prosecuted, except through impeachment. he/she cannot be indicted for a criminal offense while in office.”
Every child knows that the political process of impeachment must be followed. Back to the process which is in the hands of a questionable institution.
The wham bang thank you ma’m form of lovemaking is simply fucking. Not the process of lovemaking. However extensive foreplay and the process of give and take is lovemaking.
The political process of removing the protective mantle over the President is a political process. Erap was removed by a political process affirmed by the SC. In that respect the minority spoke for the multitudes as the multitudes kept silent and thus affirmed the acts of the minority. That minority was the chain of command of the AFP and the police.
Everyone can stroke himself or try desperately to fellate himself to make himself feel good about what transpired.
Chief Justice Puno ruled the political action was an intra-constitutional act of removing the President under constructive resignation. A glaring piece of re-constructionist re-writing of the constitution.
In the course of the Watergate hearings Alexander Butterfield blurted out what no one expected to hear. Nixon had taped his conversations in the oval office.
Down the road Leon Jaworski subpoenaed the tapes. Jaworski was working under the Justice department. The SC ruled that Nixon had to release the tapes to confirm the allegations of then John Dean. They were in the process of the legal investigation based almost entirely on the John Dean testimony. The executive department under Justice working with the SC forced the truth out of the Nixon White House. Was Nixon ever impeached , No. Was he ever indicted No. He resigned. Everyone later heard his voice ordering his men to cover up the crime by ordering the FBI to stop the inquiry under a cloak of national security.
Even before he was indicted as was and is legal in the States he was pardoned.
All through out the hearings of Sam Earvin everything was what did he know and when did he know it. All allegations and assertions. (depending on which side of the fence one is)The trial itself was to be the impeachment trial to come to hear the triable issues.
One is hard pressed to put back the toothpaste back in the tube once it is released. Unless off course the parties involved could be persuaded between now and the date for filing a new impeachment complaint to migrate to Canada or Australia under the reverse witness protection problem.
Just ask Senator Lacson about that process. it is not about the Senate hearings per se. It is the information that has come out of it.
The standard for case filing in the U.S. is not knowledge to form a belief but information to from a belief.
As for impeachment it is totally different. Case in point: Libertarians in the U.S. believe that the establishment of the Federal Reserve is un-constitutional.
Civil Libertarians and contitutionalists beleive that the case for W’s impeachment for abuse of his war powers act is there. There is however no political outcry for it.
I wonder if everyone knows the basic difference between fucking and lovemaking? Even the Church promotes lovemaking.
UP n student on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:25 am
Huwag lang kalimutan si Luisa Dominado at si Jay-Jay Burgos.
UP n student on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:26 am
hvrds: you been fucked lately?
jakcast on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:27 am
If the Senate really wants to find out the truth as well as present a credible and fair hearing, form and substance must go hand-in-hand. Calling the aides of Senator Jamby Madrigal and other non-performing solons! Please brief and prep your principals properly! Nakakahiya.
hawaiianguy on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:32 am
cvj,
Solita Monsod had a say in the formulation of HDI, and partly influenced the computation of GDP.
Am still doing research on Solita’s contribution to the GDP stuff. What’s clear so far is that she proposed the inclusion of unpaid women labor in the “income approach” to calculating GDP. And Romulo Virola recognized it and wrote a paper in Oct 2007.
I think you’re right. If GDP is proved to lack the desired validity, then we can also question the validity of HDI because it incorporates GDP as a component.
jakcast on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 2:58 am
Besides law school and poli sci, where else is parliamentary procedures/rules of order taught? Is it even required reading for our distinguished and honorables?
mlq3 on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 3:08 am
the bishops, apparently, proposed the president voluntarily lift all claims to executive privilege, period:
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=110574
rudeboy on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 3:09 am
The bishops will never take a stand against GMA. She is their ally vs. modern contraception. That is why they are so tolerant of all her government’s sleaze.
So basically GMA’s hands off approach to family planning pays off in terms of the bishops taking a less than assertive zero tolerance stance vs. all the sickening corruption of this administration.
cvj on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 3:16 am
Thanks Hawaiianguy. I came across this draft paper by Monsod on her proposal that you mentioned:
http://www.casablanca-dream.net/initiative/monsod_goa.html
As far as i know, her recommendation is not yet included in our GDP computations. I doubt the feasibility of what she’s proposing since unpaid household work is hard to quantify and pegging a value (on something that is not supported by an explicit buyer-seller exchange) may lead to absurd situations where women entering the labor force will result in a net reduction of GDP.
Also, going by her line of reasoning why stop at household work? Why not assign value to lovemaking (or fucking as the case may be) between couples in a household? For now, our economic authorities should just focus on getting the current measurements right.
hawaiianguy on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 3:23 am
cvj,
I concur with you there. Just because some countries like Canada have included unpaid women labor in their calculation of national accounts RP should also follow suit.
Besides, that makes current GDP even more unique and grossly incomparable to previous estimates. Right now, NCSB already admitted that current GDP (which goes back ot 2000) can’t be linked with the 1945-1999 series because of differences in methodology and content.
mlq3 on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 3:25 am
the philippinree national red cross teaches parliamerntary procedure for orderly meetnigsd.
jakcast on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 3:33 am
I’ve seen the f___ing word used untimidly in three blogs tonight/this morning. Seems this political crisis has awakened the Pinoy’s hard power. Good morning, my friends, I’m logging off to be with my wife.
supremo on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:04 am
bencard,
When you get a chance please Google NOLI “KABAYAD” DE “CASH”TRO.
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:07 am
jakcast, i think some anal(yst) is getting fu..ed a lot from the behind, that’s why (lol).
baycas on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:28 am
memorandum circular 108
http://www.ops.gov.ph/records/mc_108.htm
baycas on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:53 am
e.o. 464
is no more
m.c. 108
adequate
so, THANK YOU, bishop
you won’t stop
exec. privilege -
gloria’s edge!
mindanaoan on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 5:01 am
hawaiianguy: i can’t invoke the national, but you can? what can you see in hawaii that i can’t see in mindanao? … seriously, zero correlation? your other post seem scholarly (mentioning a research), but your zero correlation is baseless. the CBCP is composed of bishops from all over the philippines; the filipinos are all over the philippines. most of the anti-gma bishops are from manila; the noise is mostly in manila. the CBCP refused to join a gma-resign call; you don’t hear much of gma-resign in the provinces. there’s no correlation?
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 5:27 am
supremo, mark my word. whoever occupy malacanang will get the shaft, sooner or later, as the night follows day. it’s a national disease. quirino, garcia, marcos, aquino, ramos, erap & gma were all accused of the “worst corruption”. except for diosdado macapagal, who was considered incorruptible, only those who died in office were spared. advice to future presidents: at the first sign of trouble, die.
supremo on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 5:38 am
bencard,
No contest bencard. You are the expert on past presidents. Si Marcos na kasi ang presidente noong magkamalay ako.
UP n student on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 5:44 am
to mindanaoan and hawaiianguy : ABS-CBN Interactive reports:
——–
abs-cbnNEWS.com/Newsbreak interviewed four bishops plus other sources who provided details on what transpired in the meeting.
Malolos Bishop Jose Oliveros said some bishops felt there was no need to come up with another statement since the present situation was no different last month when they held their first annual plenary.
In the January plenary, the CBCP stressed that while corruption in government continues to be a nagging concern, the bishops said it was “by no means universal as far as the entirety of our people is concerned.”
They said that the general concern of most people is livelihood and that they want “enough of the paralyzing divisions in body politic.”
Oliveros said it was only after two hours of discussion that the bishops decided to issue a new statement to reflect the new developments in the NBN-ZTE broadband scandal, particularly with the expose of Rodolfo Noel “Jun” Lozada.
Kalookan Bishop Deogracias Iniguez confirmed that his colleagues did not want to issue a new statement initially, but they eventually felt it was proper to put things in perspective.
….
Iniguez said “one of the obstacles” that the bishops also argued was how to deal with allegations that government is trying its best to cover up anomalies in government by keeping government officials from testifying in proper forum, particularly in the Senate.
….
In inviting Bernas, Oliveros said the CBCP wanted to make sure that the recommendation they would come up with would not contravene any constitutional principle.
Bernas explained to them that the Supreme Court had already invalidated some objectionable portions in EO 464 and that executive privilege exists independently from it. EO 464 bars government officials from testifying in congressional inquiries without approval from the President.
…..
In seeking the abolition of EO 464, Cagayan de Oro Bishop Antonio Ledesma said the bishops also wanted the Palace to waive executive privilege “in the spirit of truth and accountability.”
….. the CBCP reached a consensus on asking President Arroyo to revoke EO 464 in order not to stifle congressional investigations on anomalies in government.
… the CBCP stopped short of categorically asking the President to give up executive privilege since this is a right vested to the Office of the President.
“We are not trying to protect the President but the Office she represents,” Bishop Oliveros said.
….
Some bishops wanted the CBCP to declare that Arroyo had lost her moral ascendancy to govern while majority deemed that she has not.
Oliveros said the “consensus” among the bishops is that graft and corruption allegations against the President were not backed by evidence and based only on hearsay. …that other bishops shared the sentiment that Lozada had not presented any evidence to support his claim, and that the President had a hand in the anomalous broadband deal.
…many of the bishops from Mindanao, who are more or less sympathetic to the President’s plight, outnumbered those from Luzon who are either critical or neutral on the political situation.
The bishop noted that of those who were openly calling for Arroyo’s resignation, only one rose to intervene in the plenary.
Thus, when the statement was finalized, it lacked the venom that sectors who wanted Arroyo ousted had hoped for.
Oliveros said the bishops considered the credentials of those who wanted the President to resign for supposedly losing the moral ground to govern.
He cited, for example, former House Speaker Jose de Venecia, who has openly sought the President’s resignation on the basis of moral bankruptcy. “Who are making the assessments? JDV, of all people?”
A source privy to the initial draft said some portions in the pastoral statement were watered down due to interventions of bishops sympathetic to the administration.
….
The bishops also refused to categorically say whether the pastoral statement last Tuesday was an indication that they wanted the President to finish her term.
“That is a political question and we are not competent to dwell on that,” they said.
anthony scalia on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 6:06 am
hawaiianguy,
“Besides, that makes current GDP even more unique and grossly incomparable to previous estimates. Right now, NCSB already admitted that current GDP (which goes back ot 2000) can’t be linked with the 1945-1999 series because of differences in methodology and content”
just to clarify – i hope you’re not saying that the present GDP figure is suspect, because your use of ‘grossly incomparable’ implies that.
please don’t dispute the figure. its a way for those of us who chose to stay here to check if economic activity is picking up or not. (im not saying anything nor even hinting about quality of life, purchasing power)
if you just say gloria cannot claim credit for the 7.3 then I have no argument with that, because thats the fact
nash on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 6:09 am
@bencard
“except for diosdado macapagal, who was considered incorruptible”
er, what history book is that from? zaide?
anthony scalia on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 6:14 am
cvj,
“However, we also know that per Capita GDP increase is the variable that is most questionable because the FIES presents contradictory data. So i would take that increase in HDI with a grain of salt.”
tsk tsk tsk still insisting on the use of FIES in disputing GDP. basta may maipukol lang kay gloria. haay naku
don’t worry you won’t hear from from me on HDI
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 6:24 am
nash, history as written on my brain. i lived through his presidency, and i never heard of him being accused of personal corruption.
benign0 on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:23 am
“I wonder if everyone knows the basic difference between fucking and lovemaking? Even the Church promotes lovemaking.” — hvrds
Obviously Pinoys are more into fncking democracy than making love to it.
We want to enjoy the FREEDOM but are not into hunkering down to the hard slog to achieve it SUSTAINABLY.
Kaya nga Pinoys deserve each other. We fnck democracy, and we merely get fncked back.
hawaiianguy on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:26 am
anthony scalia: “just to clarify – i hope you’re not saying that the present GDP figure is suspect, because your use of ‘grossly incomparable’ implies that.”
I still suspend my judgment on the GDP in terms of reliability and validity. Since the methodology, definition, and measurements of GDP have changed, that makes it NOT comparable with past GDP measures. NCSB admits that as a matter of fact.(“The levels in the published and the unlinked 2000-2003 three-year series [re: national accounts – GDP & GNP] cannot therefore be compared with the PSNA link series of 1946 -1999.“ http://www.nscb.gov.ph/sna/2007/1stQ2007/2007tnq_1.asp.) Thus, Gloria has no empirical basis to say that “7.3% GDP increase is the highest compared to the past 30 yrs.”
“please don’t dispute the figure. its a way for those of us who chose to stay here to check if economic activity is picking up or not.”
Yeah, I won’t.
“if you just say gloria cannot claim credit for the 7.3 then I have no argument with that, because thats the fact.â€
Yeah, she can’t do that. Just as she can’t say that GDP under her administration is the best so far (because the fact is, it can’t be compared with past GDP).
benign0 on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:37 am
“fabricate some scandal; have it investigated by the senate; parade false witnesses; put la salle nuns and “brothers†in the gallery; have abs-cbn t.v. patrol crow about it day in and day out – until he resigns?” — Bencard
Hmmm, it seems you’ve stumbled across a PROCESS for changing government officials that cretins can actually follow!
Maybe we should formalise this, document it, and add it to an ideas register for a furture charter change initiative.
If we enshrine our ocho-ocho approaches to change in a new constitution, then at least this pre-disposition to street “revolutions” will no longer be considered to be “extra-legal” and everyone will be happy at last.
-
isatambay_sakalya on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:49 am
a few people here says that we should just wait for 2010 when gma’s term ends and for the next presidential election go after the arroyo couple. how sure are we that gma will give her hold on power and subject her, her husband and their cronies to the mercy of her enemies who are still in governemnt?
conrado de quiros was and is always dead right on target on his analyses of gma and her actions. and i bet that he is also right that gma will not think twice in bastardizing the constitution to hang to power as what f.marcos did in declaring martial law. back then the opposition did not think marcos will not dare to declare martial law, but will the help of his cohorts, enrile-staging fake ambush attempt, ramos- imposed the martial and arrested everybody critical of the government.
right with the how deep the arroyo government involved in so many corrptions charges and her entire government guilty of coniving with her and having top brass military backing her, i doubt one moment she will declare martial to extend her grip on power. she already tried once and was rebuked by the supreme court!
the only chance to get rid of the arroyos and her minions from the government is to force her out. and their is strenght in number. and whoever still try to straddle both side of the fence and had a wait and see attitude is to make their mind and be very afraid. we might wake one day and realized we waited too long and is under martial law and back to 70’s.
forget about the cbcp who made themselves irrelevant. forget e.o.464. even cj panganiban spoke yesterday that e.o 464 has been repealed by the supreme court and he also stated that executive previlige applies only to national security and not only to secrecy. i am very sure that zte-nbn deal is not a matter of national security. so i can’t see how the the present sc justices declare neri’s invoking of executive previlige valid.
and what happen to hello garci tape? why everyone seems to forget? sc already ruled that gonzalez et al can not prevent the media or individual from airing the the garci tapes. it is the very proof that the gma cheated during the 2004 election thus making her illegitimate and has no mandate and legal right to be the current president.
we should be outrage!
hvrds on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:50 am
The word FUCK and the word Shit have a history it is said.
For Unapproved Carnal Knowledge. People who were accused of adultery were displayed with signs and the first four letters of the word stuck. That is the myth or so they say behind the word fuck.
For shit its was Store High in Transit. In shipping manure to the New World as fertilizer if they stored it low and water would seep in and wet it it would stink up the whole ship. Dry, it does not smell as much
isatambay_sakalya on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:52 am
apologize for the typos and missing words in my posts…but i think i still get my message across.
thanks.
benign0 on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:57 am
“the only chance to get rid of the arroyos and her minions from the government is to force her out. and their is strenght in number.” – istambay_sakalya
Think again.
The Philippines is a country of 90 million.
Sweden is a country of about 6 million.
Which of the two do you think is the more powerful society?
-
Kabayan on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 8:34 am
benign0 said:
The one that has lesser corruption
Tambay on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 8:38 am
@nash
Re; Barbers, sr. comment….do you agree that if the opposition also spoke with ANY commissioner during the 2005 elections, then he/she should also face the same consequence as that of the president?? If you do, then I am with you. If not, and you say you still need the evidence….then I just confirmed you’re just anti GMA…
UP n student on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 9:31 am
To nash… also to cvj:
According to the font of all knowledge called the Internet, Diosdado Macapagal is
We should reward the children for the father’s beatitudes
and ensure that the Macapagals rule the Philippines forever 
!!!!
—————
PS: What does “[citation needed]” mean again?
Jeg on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 9:57 am
PS: What does “[citation needed]†mean again?
It means it needs verification from an independent source, for example a document from which that statement was culled. It’s to safeguard the integrity of the article from spin doctors.
Jeg on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 9:58 am
Ooops. Sorry UPn. I thought you werent being sarcastic.
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 10:31 am
what has sweedon got do with us filipinos?
“strength in numbers”, is number of filipino sick and tired of arroyo government and it’s corruption! numbers of angry filipino people that will kick her fat as* out of malacanang!
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 10:31 am
here i go again…”sweeden”
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 10:33 am
i mean “sweden”…damn i’m so bad at spelling! sorry.
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 10:42 am
jeg, i think contemporaneous issues of the “philippine free press” would confirm those wikipedia entries re diosdado macapagal. perhaps, mlq3 could help us.
mlq3 on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 10:52 am
macapagal was called many things in his lifetime but a crook wasn’t one of the things that stuck.the main criticism of his bitterest enemies was his inconsistency, inconstancy, and petulance.
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 10:54 am
UpN, [citation needed] means that article has yet to be indexed, footnoted. meaning, that entry has to be referenced to a published material of reputable value. and no, newspaper clippings and dubious websites aren’t counted.
we all know wikipedia is prone to self-serving edits of people being referenced. but wikipedia does a good job of cleaning up facts from propaganda anyway.
hawaiianguy on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 11:20 am
UPnS, (re ur post of 2/28 5:44am)
Thanks for that news item.
The CBCP seems to be a microcosm of national politics. Butuan Bishop Juan de Dios Pueblos, known pro-GMA (like Bishop Capalla and Fr. Quiboloy), threatens Arch. Lagdameo to be careful in his statements, or else…. something may befall him like Bishop Tony Ledesma, who was replaced as Vice-Pres of the powerful CBCP.
So even among the bishops, there is also politics. And ouster is the name of the game, from a Mindanao “block.”
The “pera-pera politics” that originated from Malacanang seems to be working.
TheColdKing on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 11:32 am
Hoy Bencard, tumahimik ka na sa bullshit mo, wala nang matinong naniniwala pa sa iyo at amo mo!
hawaiianguy on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 11:43 am
BrianB: “we all know wikipedia is prone to self-serving edits of people being referenced. but wikipedia does a good job of cleaning up facts from propaganda anyway.”
In a way, wikipedia is a panderer of sort. People can surreptitiously advertise themselves, for free. Of course, they may always do self-serving edits.
But others can also edit, not necesarily their own works but erroneous or ambiguous entries done by self-adulating writers. Many of these items have remained propaganda, because they are too many to catch the attention of righteous editors not officially connected with wikipedia.
Be extra careful in reading wikipedia entries.
UP n student on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 11:54 am
DevilsAdvc8: Got it, thanks!!
Bencard: I put ten minutes of extra effort when I did my Web Search on Diosdado Macapagal to see what dirty linen or condemnations may be mentioned in some website or whatever.
A google search on “Macapagal corruption”
brings back a lot of website URL’s — newsclippings, blogsites, wiki pages, etcetera. But against Diosdado 
, no.
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:14 pm
upnstudent, i thought so. thanks for the heads up.
Bencard on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:30 pm
mlq3, i bet those descriptions “inconsistency”, “inconstancy”, “petulance” were made by marcos & co. during the 1964-65 presidential campaign. if so, consider the source!
Abe N. Margallo on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:34 pm
(People Power) must at the same time be organized and yet spontaneous. – mlq3
If the events that have led to People Power I are any guide, revolutionary uprisings go through certain levels (of consciousness): First, the underlying belief by a sizeable segment of society that the rulers and certain institutional arrangements have lost legitimacy; second, certain intense participants or change agents have gotten around their sense of powerlessness and come to realize they have the power or capacity to effect the needed changes; third, the disaffected members of society have more or less formed a consensus as to the nature and or scope of the changes they desire to occur in lieu of the illegitimated rulers or arrangements, whether be it about a total systemic overhaul, a “regime change,†an extra-constitutional overthrowing of a corrupt or immoral government, etc.
My sense is that People Power III has already reached the first and second levels of consciousness described above. However, before the Great Beast “could take care of itself†today it has yet to hurdle the third level of consciousness.
For one, I have noted even the reformists in the military and the progressives in the civil society are still tentative about the scope and the nature of the changes to be sought (note should also be taken for instance that the mere suggestion during the Manila Peninsula “uprising†that a military junta was being contemplated has not sit well with potential supporters), while other veteran people power practitioners are apprehensive the next exercise “could again end up repeating a vicious cycle of simply ‘moving on’ in circle, and not leaping onward or to a higher ground†or a “new qualitative state.â€
Arguably, proposals for reforms or transformations, at odds with each other for the most part, still abound. To cite a few: some who believe the two EDSAs were both a failure aim this time to act against a failed system and plan to overhaul it either according to some rigid ideologies or based merely on the “best practices†of ongoing successful experiments; other groups are just angry and frustrated because of “relative deprivation†(middle class weighed upon with a looming downgrade to the next class complain how come only their counterparts in other regions are having all the fun); still others are focused only on struggling for control of the state apparatuses and effecting “regime change†while keeping both the political and economic structure intact; and specifically, accused coup leader and now detained senator Sonny Trillanes is eager to transform the nation “without reinventing the wheel†or whereas Bishop Francisco Claver can only entertain the belief that “our problem comes down to this: how to correct the aberration that is the present administration without destroying the stabilizing structure that is our democratic system of government.â€
Interestingly, conservative segment of Philippine society such as the Catholic Church that was a key collaborator during the two successful EDSAs have of late shown their true conservative colors maybe fearful People Power III could spin out of control and end up challenging longstanding values and myths. As a result, reactionary moves from old and once reliable alliances, the CBCP in particular, are silently taking place in the form of tokenism (a plea to President Arroyo to take lead in the fight against corruption) and diversion (a call for a new brand of People Power through “communal actionâ€).
Jeg on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 12:34 pm
My, my, my. The apple can indeed fall far from the tree.
mindanaoan on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:10 pm
hawaiianguy : The CBCP seems to be a microcosm of national politics. there’s your correlation.
The “pera-pera politics†that originated from Malacanang seems to be working. accusations, innuendos, that’s not enough.
Pian on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:46 pm
I believe the ongoing NBN controversy is merely a ploy by the Senators to gain advantage in the next elections.
It’s not that I don’t want to stop corruption, it’s just that you’re not at all solving the problem by booting her out, until our voters learn to vote wisely. The person in line to replace her was voted for the simple reason that he’s popular with the masses.
Jeg on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:51 pm
It’s not that I don’t want to stop corruption, it’s just that you’re not at all solving the problem by booting her out
If I had a peso for everytime I read this… Pian, no one is naive enough to think that booting her out will eliminate corruption. If that’s what youve been fed, then it’s mistaken. People want to boot her out because she’s supposed to be leading the fight against corruption but isnt. Instead she’s an enabler. I hope that’s clear. Let’s kill the ‘booting her out will end corruption’ strawman.
Geo on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:52 pm
Perhaps the situation is extremely straight-forward –
The majority of the government, of the church, of the military and of the general population don’t want to follow the Far Left, Far Right, opposition Senators and a minority of the population.
If the goal is to root out corruption, then it seems that most of society is saying that the latter group is approaching it in the wrong way.
That doesn’t make everyone a pro-GMA, pro-corruption evil person. Nor does it mean those who won’t follow the People Power promoters are dumb, lazy, incapable of decision or evil.
“People Power Now!” without the People part equals “Power Now!” for a vocal minority. I guess that’s unacceptable to most…it sure seems that way.
Want to continue with your advocacy? Fine. Want to have demonstrations? Fine. But don’t say you represent me or the majority in this country. And don’t break the laws. And — most importantly — don’t introduce violence into the equation.
Meanwhile, I’m sure the vast majority of the citizenry wants to see corruption rooted out. And it wants clean elections. And it wants democracy’s institutions strengthened. These sentiments won’t go away.
How to solve all of these long-running problems? I’m not 100% sure. But I think it’s clear which solution is NOT acceptable to most of society.
kwentongwalangkwenta on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 1:56 pm
to anthony ascalla
the GMA administration is known for padding statistics. i think every administration does that. I remember when Marcos made a report about the improving economy and even the WB-IMF, his regime financiers, were taken aback that they have to tell Marcos to make adjustments with his economic statistics–make it a little bit more realistic.
with this administration, many analysts have already quetioned the methods used in computing employment rate, daily standards of living, etc. if this administration can pad votes during elections, what more could it do with statistics?
but i guess we don’t even have to question the validity of statistics to dispute the claims of economic growth. we all know that if not for the policy of exporting human workers abroad, there won’t be any growth to speak of. then consider also the loaning spree that this government is in. GMA has taken too much liberty in acquiring foreign loans, we should be feeling its effects in a couple of years–with perhaps another threat of financial meltdown, similar to what happened in 2004, then followed by a new set tax proposals from the president. right now, the government cannot spend much on development investments because its budgetary priorities is severely constrained by debt payment allocation. then you must also consider the type of growth (if there really is growth)in our GDP. is it driven by volatile foreign investments–the type which could suddenly disappear in the wink of an eye similar to what happened in the 1997 financial crisis?
if ever there is real growth, it must be felt by the people. statistics could show us one thing, but real gauge is what the ordinary people experience.
AMR on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:01 pm
The CBCP’s call for the abolition of EO 464 is an empty call. That executive order has long been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court but just the same the executive officials refuse to appear before the Senate in utter disregard of the decision of the SC. We are at a dead-end because this administration has nothing but contempt for the rule of law. Yan ang problema, si gloria kasi mismo ang problema. This all boils down to a crisis of leadership and sadly, the CBCP has failed us, not once but twice!
AMR on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:10 pm
The CBCP’s call for the abolition of EO 464 is an empty call. That executive order has long been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court but just the same the executive officials refuse to appear before the Senate in utter disregard of the decision of the SC. We are at a dead-end because this administration has nothing but contempt for the rule of law. Yan ang problema, si gloria kasi mismo ang problema. This all boils down to a crisis of leadership and sadly, the CBCP has failed us not once but twice!
AMR on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:17 pm
The sad thing is this CBCP statement will be used by Malacanang lackeys to suit their own purposes. All we ask of the CBCP is to take a strong moral stand on the question of whether GMA ought to resign. (They need not actually ask us to take to the streets since it is already our call). It does not take years of prayers and discernment to realize that GMA is evil and must be exorcised out of the Palace. At any rate, with or without the CBCP, all decent Filipinos must exert their efforts whatever way possible to put an end to GMA’s rule. It is now or never. She must go!
By the way, the one day strike may be a nice idea. Payag ako.
magdiwang on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:24 pm
AMR, I think you have to change what you stated on what the supreme court ruling on EO 464.
John Christian Canda on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:36 pm
Manolo, whilst I agree with you and the Opposition that graft and corruption is rampant under the present Administration, I am against moves to remove President Macapagal-Arroyo via extra-constitutional means. If you want to remove the President, why not file an impeachment complaint against her? But always remember that impeachment is a numbers game and that Congress is dominated by Administration allies. I believe that the best way is to take advantage of President Macapagal-Arroyo’s two remaining years in vigilance and in warning the people to be on guard against moves to amend the 1987 Constitution for personal political gain.
Mita on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:39 pm
really now – what will booting her out solve?
nash on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:47 pm
@tambay
oo naman, whoever called that election official during the count asking for votes to be padded..
dapat ZERO tolerance. and high standards should be required of all government officials (elected, appointed…etc..)
Jeg on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:50 pm
what will booting her out solve?
Another peso for me.
Jeg on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:51 pm
That was in reference to a comment I made in another thread, Mita. Just in case you were wondering.
nash on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:51 pm
@UP n,
I’m sorry but I don’t wiki for autobiographies (Point of view, articles not vetted….). In fact one of my past times is vandalising those wiki autobiographies…
Maybe incorruptible nga talaga si Diosdado….besides he is dead already..
Jeg on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 4:52 pm
Ay mali. This thread pala.
mindanaoan on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 5:32 pm
i agree with geo
Mandaragat on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 7:24 pm
As long as there is no alternative in sight, GMA will cling to power up to 2010.
What’s happening now may be perceived as political posturing considering the people “making noise” about it seems taking advanteage of media mileage to prepare themselves for the next presidential election.
Luma na ang ganitong style.
Our beloved country needs instability. We dont need another EDSA 3 to put back a convicted leader or bring to power the same personalities we deposed on EDSA 1. Dapat natutuo narin tayo sa EDSA 2.
There’s no one to blame here.
Sarili na natin ang kalaban this time.
Bert on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 8:27 pm
“I hope this clarifies why I am at this point listening and observing what is going on. It doesn’t mean I don’t agree with you. It just means I want to be fair. Just because you feel they’re not fair doesn’t mean we have stoop to their level.–Tambay
guys, don’t press Tambay too much, just like the cbcp, he’s waiting for the bandwagon to come.
Mita on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 11:50 pm
there is a willing dummy….este replacement….ERAP!
Mita on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 11:52 pm
Exactly my sentiments, Geo!
hawaiianguy on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:28 am
mindanaon: “The “pera-pera politics†that originated from Malacanang seems to be working. accusations, innuendos, that’s not enough.”
You must have missed the train, my friend. Many of the bishops themselves admitted receiving “cash gifts or reimbursements” during that July 2007 meeting in Malacanan prior to the impeachment attempt. For your info as a Mindanaoan, at least two bishops returned the money: Bishop Tony Ledesma (Cagayan de Oro) and Bishop Jose Manguiran (Dipolog). But many didn’t.
“A leading Bishop, Jose Manguiran of Dipolog diocese said, he was given two cash filled envelopes on the eve of the crucial meeting of the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) which was to discuss the pending impeachment of the President.
“They were trying to bribe the bishops …it was shamelessâ€. He returned the money with a covering letter. Archbishop Antonio Ledesma, CBCP vice-president was also given an envelope with cash but he told a reporter that he refused it. – Bishop Manguiran
mindanaoan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:53 am
hawaiianguy: i missed the train because your clippings date back to 2006! now, to say that many bishops accepted the cash gifts does not necessarily follow that the CBCP has been bought. if that’s the only conclusion you can make, i can grant you that. for my part i give them the benefit of the doubt.
btw, why do you seem to pick on my being mindanaoan?
hawaiianguy on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:09 am
mindanaoan, never did I say or insist that the CBCP has been bought. Divided, yes, because of that pera-pera politics. Nobody can deny that. If you think that it never happened, you are entitled to your opinion.
No, I didn’t pick on you or single you out. I have sparred with some people here, not just you. I thought that you, being a Mindanaoan, could bring up something worthwhile in this blog re Mindanao.
mindanaoan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:44 am
hawaiian, so who do you think among the bishops were influenced by the cash gift? the bishops that i know seem to be of unquestionable integrity; it’s unreasonable to impute corruptibity to bishops i dont know. so that leaves me to grant that their actions, and that of CBCP as a whole, are the result of their discernment, and not of pera-pera politics.
For your info as a Mindanaoan why do you need to put as a mindanaoan in there?
hawaiianguy on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:05 am
mindanaoan,
I would rather let the bishops say something on that. Like you, I also vouch for those bishops that I know are of unquestionable integrity (Bishop Tony Ledesma, Bishop Hilario Gomez, and Bishop Jose Manguiran.) How about you, can you name them?
If you live in Davao, Cagayan de Oro, Zamboanga or anywhere close by, why don’t you try asking the devout and church leaders who are those bishops that have become beneficiaries of “donations” from Malacanan for their diocese?
Re your ” as a Mindanaoan,” I assume that you are from the region, and that you are knowledgeable about it. (“what can you see in hawaii that i can’t see in mindanao?”)
AMR on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:35 pm
magdiwang, why would I change my statement? the controversial provisions of eo 464 has been declared unconstitutional by the SC. that executive order has been practically rendered toothless by the SC. but just the same the executive branch does not respect the said ruling and continue to ignore the senate.