Return of the native
October 26, 2007 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
After Edsa Dos, I expressed the opinion, mainly in private, that having stepped down, and having avoided bloodshed, Joseph Estrada should be left alone in Greenhills and left to wallow in his riches. Ouster, under the circumstances, was enough. When Edsa Dos forces insisted he should be thrown in jail, again, I expressed reservations on the basis of the country remaining deeply divided, and on the principle that you do not kick a man when he is down. When the pressure to charge him and try him proved irresistible, I cautioned that pending the trial, he should still be allowed to stay in Greenhills, as humiliating him would not serve the interest of justice.
What happened of course was that he was clumsily arrested, and treated in such a manner as to provoke the Edsa Tres revolt. A revolt the forces salivating over his humiliation proved powerless to prevent or even counter. The reformist instincts of the President were swiftly abandoned at that point, when it proved her Civil Society allies couldn’t protect her; instead, the military and the operators shielded her and the inevitable slide to 2003 (her decision to run again), 2004 (the manner in which the campaign was conducted), 2005 (the divorce between the President and what remained of the reformists within her government) and 2006 began.
After having gone against her instincts and ordering the arrest of Estrada, the President always proved ambiguous about the trial and a conviction: from day one, she’d preferred exile as a solution. If that proved impossible, she would be persistent in offering a pardon. Meanwhile, she expressed no dissatisfaction with the trial being dragged out, since a quick resolution of the case wouldn’t do her any good (in the absence of a willingness, on Estrada’s part, to recognize her legitimacy by accepting a pardon from her), and while a drawn-out trial also served Estrada’s purposes (either postponing an inevitable conviction or keeping him in the limelight as some sort of self-styled prisoner of conscience), neither side seemed capable of figuring out what a possible compromise could be.
And so, earlier this year I proposed that Estrada cut the Gordian knot and run for office. It offered up a possibility for the public to resolve something the court was proving unable to do. Estrada preferred to continue posturing from his Tanay rest house. After the election, when it became clear Estrada’s endorsement was not as powerful as people had expected, and when the President for her part, saw the public mood (nationally-speaking) was completely against her, the trial began to move toward a resolution. On the day the verdict was handed down, both Estrada and Arroyo loyalists discovered they stood larger in their own minds than in the eyes of a public that shrugged off Estrada’s conviction. Both saw themselves in the mirror, and didn’t like what they saw: they saw themselves as sliding, inexorably, too, into the has-been column of the political divide.
With neither side having shown themselves as particularly devoted to the law, I felt that the whole thing should be done with, and Estrada pardoned. I did end up qualifying that opinion with a further opinion that a pardon shouldn’t include his taking home the loot. The opinion of Prof. Popoy de Vera struck me, which was, that the Filipino concept of justice is restitution and not retribution -as he later told me, besides that was the public view that Estrada shouldn’t keep his loot, and having been disgraced, he should bow out of politics.
The pardon, as it’s emerged, involves exactly that, and suggests at whom the pardon is aimed, in p.r. terms: the Estrada constituency among the masses. The pardon contains a pledge (whether meaningless or not) that Estrada will not seek elective office, and that he forfeits the properties and monies ordered confiscated by the court.
Estrada, for his part, had angled for nothing less than a full, sweeping pardon. the President, on the other hand, anxious as she was to grant that pardon, had to be able to throw some sort of bone to her constituents and so, made a counter-proposal: Estrada should accept a conditional pardon, the only condition being his being unable to keep the loot (which Estrada, after all, had unblinkingly claimed was never his). What seems to have finally clinched the deal was something personal and not political -the widely-held assumption that Estrada’s mother doesn’t have very much longer left to live.
Add to that the unappetizing prospects, for the Estrada, of continued detention (however pleasant it is, but from his perspective still an intolerable situation), his being unsure of whether he would secure the overturning of the verdict on appeal, and the chance that a future government might not be anxious to pander to him the way the President has, and you can well imagine why Estrada would want to settle things now, and forget any chance to achieve a proper vindication. Add to this, finally, the pending transfer of Estrada to New Bilibid prisons: being fingerprinted in an orange jumpsuit, shaved of his Elvis-style pompadour, having to endure a jail cell.
You can imagine, too, that the President, beset on all sides by problems of her own making, and who never wanted things to reach this point, anyway, would want to settle matters, too, and her willingness to take one more gamble by saying she’d allow his being sent to Bilibid.
And so, they sealed the deal.
I am not surprised by the pardon, and I’m generally inclined to look at it the way Torn & Frayed does (he opposed amnesty, though I think amnesty would have been more politically acceptable all around), but I think it does leave a little room for further interpretation.
It tells us that the President has more to gain in terms of good will from the Estrada constituency than she has to lose from Edsa Dos forces who will be angry, upset, and shocked, but who in the end lack what matters most to the President: numbers, in terms of votes, and a willingness to make those numbers count, whether in terms of public protests or going to the polls.That political math has been clear since May, 2001: and the losers here are the Edsa Dos veterans who are shocked and appalled, only now, not least because the folly of their support for the President has been exposed, not to the President but to themselves. As far as Estrada’s supporters are concerned he made the best out of a raw deal.
But it also tells us that Estrada is permanently incapable of saving anything beyond his own hide. In the end he had to kneel and beg for mercy from a President he’d never recognized as legitimate; he would not risk vindicating himself in the courts, the ultimate demonstration of his disbelieving his own rhetoric. He can always say what does it profit a man, if he is unable to bury his mother as a free man? As far as that goes, he’s right; but he would have been allowed to bury her anyway, but he could not allow himself to endure the prospects of the Supreme Court upholding his conviction, or worse, his being hauled off to Muntinlupa to endure the kind of imprisonment regularly endured by his constituents.
In the strange, because almost mystical, way our society manages to see rays of sunshine, public opinion had finally welcomed Estrada’s conviction as closure to the great divisions of 2001. His supporters could proclaim him a willing martyr; his critics could view it as vindication. Estrada and Arroyo both managed to deny that closure to both, and that’s the reason there’s public dissatisfaction. at least withing Edsa Dos and some Edsa Tres circles, with the deal.
One comment I heard, from some Edsa Dos veterans, was, “and he didn’t even spend a single day in jail.” I understand some Estrada supporters were upset, too, because their idol caved in and left them twisting in the wind, proclaiming the illegitimacy of an administration from which Estrada himself decided to seek a pardon only a legitimate president can grant.
What this has achieved is that it has simply reshuffled the deck chairs on the Titanic. The President removed the chains keeping steerage from joining the First Class passengers on the deck of the sinking ship. Those astute enough to realize the ship’s doomed long ago fired the distress rockets and clambered into lifeboats.
In a nation where symbolism trumps substance, Estrada never had to suffer for his rhetoric, the President never gave the legal process to reach its final conclusion; there wasn’t even a token effort at proving justice could be tempered with mercy; instead, mercenary calculations were passed off as executive mercy. But, as Amang Rodriguez so famously said, “in the long of time, we shall success.”
Much as everyone saw the pardon coming, what I don’t think anyone outside of official circles expected was for it to be used so crudely, so patently politically: a historic verdict required a historic demonstration of presidential statesmanship; instead, it was a tool used to blunt the effects of embarrassing headlines resulting from the Senate hearing; and it was a brusque dismissal of those who, all these eventful years, stubbornly insisted on giving the President the benefit of the doubt because she had to be, somehow, better than her predecessor.
What happens next? It remains to be seen whether Estrada will be grateful to Arroyo, and whether a new Arroyo-Estrada alliance is in the making. I can only hope so. It relieves the opposition of the burden of having to maintain an uneasy peace with the Estrada forces, and finally offers up the prospects for the veterans of Edsa 1 and 2 to reunite.
Then again, it may also give Estrada a new lease on political life. But the damage has been done; a free man, Estrada is free to return to engaging in his vices in full public view, and to prove himself ungrateful and incapable of doing anything for those who loyally stood by his side since his fall from power.
If Estrada were to run for the presidency again, he would lose. But he can begin investing, quite heavily, in the political futures of his sons. What that future is, remains to be seen. now he is just another ex-president. He has achieved his aims, and how minimal they turned out to be. There is nothing left for him to do, not least because who, now, will follow him after his kneeling before the President?
And as for the President, it’s back to the War Room because so many other fights still need to be fought, and any relief she obtains always proves increasingly temporary. Tuesday and Wednesday night, apparently, neophyte congressmen were brought to the Palace for their egos to be stroked. Last night, a larger meeting of all non-opposition congressmen was held at the Palace, ostensibly to survey the political situation, but possibly to consider the party line concerning the President’s cash gifts, since the governors already came up with their own excuse.
Jove Francisco chronicles how reporters found out about the pardon, which wasn’t expected to be announced until Friday. Reporters apparently take their cue from how the President color-codes her dresses: if she’s in blue, you know she’s in crisis mode. Also, Jove mentions a gathering of the Cabalens in the Palace, which made for a surreal scene:
I heard some people who witnessed the event comment that the event was a bad idea. That it won’t help their cabalen-PGMA any bit. Imagine, here’s a President who has been distancing herself from the payola issue, and then here are Mayors saying stuff like “they need the controversial cash gifts†… inside the palace mismo. In bad taste, at sino man daw nag isip, – malamang di nag iisip. Ill advised, ika nga.
As for the goings on in the Palace bunker, word is that Sec. Bunye’s assumption of the role of Acting Executive Secretary is in preparation for his assuming the role in a more permanent capacity, which is why two deputy presidential spokesmen have been appointed; Sec. Ermita, according to scuttlebutt has been given a one-way ticket to America, and before he left, he told his people to start packing their things.
The reason the announcement of the pardon was moved to Thursday, instead of Friday, when the Palace prefers to make big announcements so it has the weekend to survey the scene and gage public reaction, is chronicled in turn by Uniffors. It’s a great read. And explains why the Palace dispensed with its only make breaking news as the weekend starts rule of thumb.
For a roundup of blogger’s reactions to the pardon, see tonyocruz.com.
Technorati Tags: Edsa, philippines, politics, president
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stuart-santiago on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:57 pm
“If Estrada were to run for the presidency again, he would lose. But he can begin investing, quite heavily, in the political futures of his sons. What that future is, remains to be seen.”
i think you’re right. already jinggoy is a major player, and when loi leaves the senate, i can see jv ejercito taking her place, with a lot of help from erap. my theory is, there’s a trade-off, maybe to do with gloria’s continuing push for charter change a.k.a. federalism, which would explain the lootbags, cash advances, to local government officials. erap’s support would be invaluable.
stuart-santiago on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:08 pm
“If Estrada were to run for the presidency again, he would lose. But he can begin investing, quite heavily, in the political futures of his sons. What that future is, remains to be seen.”
i think you’re right. already jinggoy is a major player, and when loi leaves the senate, i can see jv ejercito finally getting his wish to do a jinggoy too. my theory is, there’s a trade-off, maybe to do with gloria’s continuing push for charter change a.k.a. federalism, which would explain the lootbags, cash advances, to local government officials. erap’s (and his sons’)support would be invaluable.
tonio on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:47 pm
to paraphrase Nietzsche:
EDSA Zwei ist tot! EDSA Zwei bleibt tot! Und wir haben ihn getötet.
LAPSAPAN on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 4:28 pm
Nasaan na ang bise-presidente ng bansa natin, si kabayan Noli De Castro, sa mga panahong ito na higit nating kinakailangang marinig ang kanyang boses? Nasaan na ang boses niya na naging pamilyar sa atin tuwing binabati tayo ng “Magandang gabi, bayaaAAAaannn…�
Sir, nasaan na kayo? Ngayon nyo kilangang ipakita ang leadership qualities nyo, sa mga panahon na ito na maraming katanungan tungkol sa pinakamataas na pinuno ng Pilipinas. Sa mga panahong ito na maraming issues laban sa gobyernong kinasasapian nyo. Oo, marami din sa mga Filipino ang tinatawaran ang kakayahan nyong mamuno kahit pa binoto kayo bilang pangalawang pangulo ng bansa. Kung may panahon na kailangan nyong patunayan na mali ang pananaw na iyon sa inyo, Sir, ito na ang tamang panahon. Ngayon namin higit na kailangang marinig ang inyong boses.
hvrds on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 4:31 pm
He was sent into exile to his summer palace. Not the palace dungeons. He was finally sentenced to the dungeons but paid his tribute and declared God save the Queen and was allowed to go home to his manor grounds. Most of his loyalists dispersed to the winds.
Kneel before the queen and you shall have your minor kingdom back to you. Leave behind the treasures of the kingdom earned after your ascent to the crown.
Prisoner of Conscience -No way.
A saga ends and we are still in the middle of another one.
Where is Cromwell?
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:38 pm
Tonio, had to use babelfish but you’re 100% correct
Manolo, don’t you mean ‘EDSA 2 and 3?
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:45 pm
Noli de Castro is reprising Gloria’s role in 2001: Fence-sitter who will grab the prize once the dust from the battle has settled.
Spineless creatures both!
nash on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:53 pm
Could it be for a very simple reason as well?
As a mama’s boy, Erap would do ANYTHING to be with his mother during her dying moments.
I’d probably do the same thing if faced with such a dilemna. I’d even go back to Catholicism and worship all those bishops if it means release from jail to tender to an ailing mother…
Or yes, maybe it’s just politics and Erap is a shrewd trapo…
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 6:01 pm
Perhaps Erap’s loyalists imagined that their hero would do a Braveheart by refusing to scream “Mercy!” even as his guts are being mangled and excised. But the guy is a total idiot, he can never be in that league.
So, what’s the latest spin for the Gloria-lovers here? Compassionate lang talaga ang Presidente nyo?
As FVR warned, this could really be the last straw.
mlq3, wala pa bang rally? Black n White should move, everyone should move, kumilos na tayo!
ronin on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 6:16 pm
Loi’s and Jinggoy’s popularity at the polls represented only the reflected glow of Erap’s constituency. If this mass base dissipates as a result of their disenchantment over his ’submission’ to Gloria, then they’d end up looking for another career–or just be content taking turns warming the seat in the San Juan city hall.
Tsokolet on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:12 pm
Aling Gloria is like telling us, “Accuse me, even if I’ll be found guilty I can ask for pardon anyway…I had pardoned Erap so I, also, expect to be granted the same”. In other words, with the fact that they won’t serve their sentence, our fight for graft and corruption will go useless….so where should we proceed from here if that will be the case? I guess the Judicial branch should intervene and give a fair and acceptable judgment.
Mike on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:22 pm
I’m with tagabukid: Black & White should move, and we will all follow. If this isn’t a crystal clear case of Black vs. White, I don’t know what is.
Please, somebody, ANYBODY! I’m mad as hell and not taking it anymore!
levi on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:33 pm
MLQ3, forgive my ignorance, are you an active member of the B&W Movement?
Philippine Updates on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:36 pm
I’ve found a suitable ribbon that we can use for this topic.
Black Ribbon at Philippine Updates
FUTURE PLUNDERERS ARE NOW SAFE!
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:41 pm
It seems to me that,positively,recent event are is trying to separate the chaff from the grain and weed out the bad seeds from the good.
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:50 pm
i think black ribbons won’t be enough, manhid at garapal na masyado ang gobyernong ito, they will just spit in our faces and trample on all those symbolisms.
let’s take the outrage to the streets!
Philippine Updates on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:57 pm
Hi tagabukid: We’ve been through EDSA 1 & 2, Let’s be careful in calling for mass actions. We both know that chaos can suddenly erap (erupt).
I am with you in expressing outrage, though.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:17 pm
Re: “But it also tells us that Estrada is permanently incapable of saving anything beyond his own hide. In the end he had to kneel and beg for mercy from a President he’d never recognized as legitimate;”
Very true, perhaps out of plain stupidity or sheer persona dysfunction, i.e., real life taking on a reel role.
He couldn’t save his presidency then back in 2001 because either he didn’t know how to or because he thought as in the movies, the underdog would always win.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:19 pm
As far as I’m concerned I’ve had enough melodrama from the two megastars, Erap and Gloria, that the two should simply be OUT of the political landscape.
I’m with B&W: snap election to start anew!
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:28 pm
We’ve done it before, we can do it again.
Nasa EDSA ako noong 2001, hanggang sa mendiola… and yes, we’ve all been had. Those pigs stole the whole show and fucked up everything and everyone. It’s payback time.
mlq3, i think B&W would do well to coordinate things with the CBCP. I have faith in Angel Lagdameo, he will not fail us. Better make sure about that Grandstand schedule this time.
to Gloria spinmeisters, loyalists, apologists and serial rapists: sneer at your own risk.
the time of reckoning has come.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:56 pm
two components of my barren Philippines precluding “Bastille.” charter change and Gloria’s continued stay in power, and co-opting of the fake opposition.
the other component being mass emigration of OFW families.
so cvj, still don’t believe me?
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:57 pm
i’ll keep on reposting that prediction until it comes true.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:01 pm
and there’s an ongoing online petition right now to have snap elections. on search mode for it. will post the link when i find it.
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:07 pm
let’s watch her self-detsruct;her”natural allies” (fvr,singson,jdv are leaving her),very fast turn of events these past weeks;she keeps inventing a big headline every week to”divert” attention from her mess.
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:11 pm
when?
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:13 pm
Only the 500 peso bill will bring paid demonstrators to go
to the streets.
Sige maghintay ka ’till kingdom come.
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:16 pm
the cat:I 100% sure that karma will catch up.its unavoidable.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:25 pm
that kingdom, will come. and when it does, you’ll be among the lynched. i’ll be among the vanished, and the bloggers here will be among the lost.
the beggars pestering us now for a bit of coin, will do the lynching.
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:39 pm
It’s ok Cat, i expected your one-liners, yan naman ang natural reaction mo e. As i said, sneer at your own risk.
Di ko kinailangan ng P500 para maglakad papuntang Mendiola noong 2001. How about you, what have you done?
You reserve your one-liners pag bumagsak na ang regime ng presidente mo, you’ll need more than that especially if the people breaks through mendiola.
As with Erap, you and your Gloria Arroyo won’t see it coming.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:46 pm
For info, Tagabukid, I believe (although I might be wrong), Cat is beyond the reach of those who will or will not accept the 500 peso bill, she’s in the US.
frombelow on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:54 pm
so let us wqit now. from scutllebutt.the game now is villar for president in 2010. jinggoy as vice president. unbeatable team as erap voters plus the support of the GMA admin. Villar is the bet of both Erap and GMA.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:54 pm
The way I see it, pardoning Erap was a tactical move, in one quick stroke, GMA neutralized the one group that had potential for outrage in the streets – the Erap “mob” supporters, whether paid (500Php) or not.
Or do we remember the masterful blockade of several elements of the oust GMA move last year? The police effectively prevented the different groups from reaching critical mass by not allowing them to converge. The military undoubtedly have some cracks in their armor, but calls for the observance of the chain of command and the renewed programs for “back to basics” and “professionalism” apparently is stemming any signs of dissent.
The administration is also regrouping their strength in congress, governors league, and mayors league which in themselves constitute a powerful block. GMA’s forces are gathering together in a powerful defensive position while negating the danger from strong opposing factions. Add the CBCP, Mike Velarde, etc. to the whole enchilada (together with their flock) and you have all in all a seemingly immovable object.
On the one hand we have powerful forces though from different sides united by one common characteristic – corruption, and have banded together for self preservation. On the other, we have the outraged real opposition, the people represented by the B&W movement, whose components cannot be defined as yet so its difficult to measure strength.
Its a grim sight indeed, as the forces of darkness is eclipsing the forces of light. My only comfort, is that even if there will not be a movement strong enough to wipe the landscape clean, the administration and its newfound allies will implode with all the political in-fighting and self-destruct with external pressures acting as a catalyst.
I hope that the youth of today, more educated than the past generations, will take the current events as lessons in “what not to do in governance” and decide not to repeat their elders’ mistakes as they chart their own destiny…
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:56 pm
Devils, the good (or bad) thing about matters concerning society is that there is no transcendental position. everyone is inside society, in order words, everything is immanent. Granted there are tendencies but these can only be expressed as contingencies. as soon as expectations are formed, society takes these expectations into account and is transformed by it.
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:57 pm
yup, i know that MBW, thanks.
ive been here long enough to know that she’s the ailurophile who gets a kick out of seeing the Filipino fail, while she wallows in the luxury of her abode in the land of milk and honey.
Helga on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:59 pm
What was done to us last night by GMA was a humungous insult. What she did last night was indefensible. And downright paranoid. We mourn with all of you who are just as hurt and revolted.
The comments made by those who revere her sound more and more defensive than offensive. They are losing and they know it. Their mistress just slipped.
I’ve always believed that People Power is a miracle, born out of the hearts of people enraged. It will happen, and those of us who work in the Black & White Movement believe it will happen. People Power is exacting accountability from leaders that have dissed us. But to move the people to “move” would be irresponsible without knowing what to do after we move. That mistake happened twice. Let’s not waste the moment a third time. We plan to hold a consultative meeting very soon, and you’ll all be invited.
And yes, we are proud that Manolo is a co-convenor of Black & White.
BrianB on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:03 pm
“With neither side having shown themselves as particularly devoted to the law, I felt that the whole thing should be done with, and Estrada pardoned. I did end up qualifying that opinion with a further opinion that a pardon shouldn’t include his taking home the loot. The opinion of Prof.”
This is only true for Filipinos who have lost their pride.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:03 pm
Right on Helga!
BrianB on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:03 pm
“The opinion of Prof. Popoy de Vera struck me, which was, that the Filipino concept of justice is restitution and not retribution -as he later told me, besides that was the public view that Estrada shouldn’t keep his loot, and having been disgraced, he should bow out of politics.”
This is only true for Filipinos who have lost their pride.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:05 pm
correction: in order words = in other words
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:05 pm
ramrod,
dont despair. as mon casiple correctly observed, the ‘masterful stroke’ did nothing but buy her time and nothing else.
but she can’t escape the inevitable, unless she makes the ’supreme sacrifice’ of resigning. But of course, sa kapal ng apog at sa tindi rin ng takot to lose power, that is wishful thinking.
vic on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:06 pm
MBW, and that’s only worth, let me compute 500/43=$11.62 just barely enough for lunch at any fast food. but for most ordinary “paid demostrators” that’s about a day or two wages and if it accomplishes something, like kicking another despot out, that’s a bonus…It was macoy, then erap and who is the next?, not George W., or not even our good looking young PM Harper, but gloria, next in line..and like some, I’ll watch from the “safe distance”..
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:07 pm
Planning on going somewhere? We’re not that old you know.
tagabukid on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:08 pm
Helga, count me in.
Please post the updates sa site niyo, im sure the people are watching and waiting for someone to move. we must move.
Tsokolet on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:11 pm
this government is filled with ‘kamahiran’…hypocrisy, filth, vagueness, double-standards, etc… I’m fuming mad!!!!
Tsokolet on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:14 pm
The Cat,
Ganyan ba ka manhid si Aling Gloria?
levi on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:18 pm
Gloria the fence sitter and immediate beneficiary of EDSA Dos is now bastardizing the spirit of that spontaneous convergence.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:18 pm
Vic,
Your computation is true, i.e., 500 pesos is two days salary or more for a house maid or a house boy in Pinas so I heard.
Problem for me about paying off would be demonstrators or rallyists to join a kick Gloria out crusade is that inevitably, one doesn’t quite know if these demonstrators are rallying for the money or because they really believe Gloria should be kicked out.
I suppose the only way to make sure they realize the purpose of the rally, in the event, a kick-out Gloria crusade has to get going is at the very least to inform these people, of the reasons, to “mass educate” them if at all possible, similar to what Dean Bocobo calls Joma sit ins. At least you’ve got a semblance of political ‘maturity’ or whatever there, you know just like what COPA did when they linked hands with Satur Ocampo’s and Crispin Beltran’s red friends.
Ah, what political blarney yarns need to be woven to get things done in this country, eh, Vic?
You and I are lucky… we don’t have to live the day to day yuck in situ under the country’s despicable despots.
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:20 pm
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’
Helga on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:20 pm
Thanks, tagabukid, for the support. Will make sure to post details. Manolo will, too.
Tsokolet on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:23 pm
Helga, I & my friends here are with you.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:24 pm
cvj,
I don’t know, but seeing Erap on TV and listening to his speech, even thanking GMA had a very chilling effect. I went with the LFS (funny 20 years ago), I’ve seen EDSA 1, even campaigned for it against my father’s wishes (a Marcos’ loyalist), been with EDSA 2, and you know the elation you all feel with the outpouring of emotions, you don’t feel the heat, even the hunger (because of baon of course) and you stand there witnessing history in the making, all hopes up. You only feel the days’ toll when you finally go to bed.
And here we go again! Sometimes I’m tempted to send my son to go live with relatives abroad to shield him from all this, but then again, its history in the making, I want him to experience being part of it and not just read it in some taxtbook years from now…
Philippine Updates on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:29 pm
This site–> http://www.petitiononline.com/ is good for online petitions. This is where people signed up against the Desperate Housewives slur. If, we don’t have a good online petition going around, we can use that site.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:42 pm
Anyway, there’s this speech by William Wallace (Braveheart) thats always appropriate for events like this, TDC quoted it before, by the way, where is TDC?
vic on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:43 pm
MBW, during my first few years in early 70s to half of 80s I watched with admiration though fearing to high heavens of what might happened to my youngest twin sisters, who were in the front line during EDSA 1, they were what we call in the old days “idealists” and activists, but when they saw most of their “compatriots” who turned colours, especially the one who worked for NEDA with her fiancee, they too decided that their career and families are more important, one packed her bag in early 90s move to here then to u.s. with her fellow m.d. husband and the other one, married to the nephew of late Pres. Magsaysay, decided to move to California. It was a struggle to relocate, but like most of idealists turned pragmatists, i don’t blame them a bit.
But in Helga’s stead, I knew from her that she too used to reside here in Toronto, but decided to return to join the struggle in person and I wish her and the rest the BEST of LUCK…
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:50 pm
Ramrod, ok. Maybe it’s because i didn’t hear Erap’s speech so there was no chilling effect for me. I’m more optimistic today than i was the first time i participated in this blog. At that time, people still can get away with giving GMA the benefit of the doubt. Not so now and the trend does not seem to be reversing.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:53 pm
TDC = MAV = The Equalizer = Manindigan!
Equalizer, correct me if i’m wrong.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:55 pm
I sincerely ditto that Vic, to Helga and B&W, the BEST OF LUCK!
My mother and sister who are still living in the Philippines (my sister refuses to relocate because my mother refuses to do so and so does my brother)are prepared to join the B&W calls anytime.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:56 pm
Is that so, cvj? I had a half inkling that TdC was The Equalizer but all four in one?
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:58 pm
MBW, i don’t think TdC ever hid that fact.
frombelow on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:58 pm
helga, ramrod and others, you all have my sympathy.
but a lot of equations have changed now. i agree with ramrod. it was a tactical move ( erap pardon ). i think the midddle class and the groups not necessarilty identifed with Erap groups are the losers. come to think of it, are we not becoming too self-righteous to even think of treating erap loyalists as dirt as to say that it will be a good riddance as we can now move againbst GMA with the Erap boys not tainting the movement. think that is the biggest mistake of anti-GMA forces. We always thnik that we are the best and the purest. now that we dont have the warm bodies of the erap loylaists. what are we goinbg to do. Rely on tjose middle class who proved to be very unreliable in the past.Who is that philospher thinker that the most unreliable political ally is the middele class. Historly will tell us that successful revolutions are only waged by the upper class– american and soviet revolutions –and the lower class– china and french revolutions. I am not very hopeful with the BW movement and toher midle class groups althoyugh i believe in the sincerity of some of their convenors.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:03 pm
cvj,
No, I don’t think so either.
Dr. D. on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:03 pm
Let’s start by supporting Sen. Trillanes’s online petition “..Calling for the immediate resignation of Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo and Noli de Castro and for the Holding of Special (“Snap”) Elections within 60 days.”
I won’t give a copy-&-pasted link here to bypass moderation, but here it is: triple-w dot petitiononline dot com slash snap08 slash petition dot html.
Did everybody get it?
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:04 pm
frombelow, my sense is that disgust at Erap’s release cuts across all classes. EDSA Tres is now divided. Also, the French Revolution was instigated by the Middle Class.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:09 pm
Vic, Ramrod, cvj, Tagabukid, Tsokolet and everyone
Re: Erap pardon
One thing that’s absolutely dead certain, judging from the commenters’ posts in the two heavily commented blogs, this one act of Gloria’s has united at least 3 groups of people: the pro-Erap, the anti-Erap and the indifferent to Erap but vehemently anti-Gloria (and if I may say, yours truly belong to the last one) against her.
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:09 pm
I used to be for snap but then Loren withdrew her protest and now Noli is legit.
So I prefer that gloria leave Malacanan and Noli take over. As Nene Pimentel said, kaya na natin tiisin si Noli for two and a half years,
I have reservations about stepping outside the constitution. People power is constitutional. A snap election is not.
One reason why I’m against stepping outside the constitution is we might have to draft a new charter just to make the snap election legal.
Once we mess with the constitution, we might end up writing one that’s parliamentary and unicameral. And then we end up institutionalizing what we hoped to eliminate through a snap election – the erosion of checks and balances.
If there’s anything we need for the next decade or so, it is more checks and balances among co-equal branches of government.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:12 pm
Dr. D, done! thanks for the pointer.
Robert McCall on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:25 pm
I am happy for former president Joseph Ejercito Estrada and his family.
-Former Pres. Corazon Aquino
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:34 pm
mbw:is the pope catholic?
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:35 pm
Agree with cvj, “Also, the French Revolution was instigated by the Middle Class.” The French bourgeoisie (middle class) instigated it because of over taxation, corruption, etc.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:36 pm
Huh? “mbw:is the pope catholic?”
The Equalizer, he sure is — Roman Catholic more precisely.
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:38 pm
mbw:think!of your answer .
beware of French lace cookies
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:39 pm
ana:your 10:56 post
Floyd Buenavente on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:40 pm
So what is my take on Eraps’ pardon given by Malakanyang?
First Erap had been wasting his time in prison for a long time without ever being proven guilty at that. To date he’s only been proven guilty this year and yet he had to suffer the humiliation of being an ousted President charged with sorruption Etc… while Imelda Marcos, GMA, Joc-joc Bolante, The comelec amongst others gets away with their crimes…
You see life just isn’t fair, but that doesn’t mean that only the ones in power should have the benefit of the doubt.
What Erap did to date is to face his accusers head on and place his faith in the justice system that actually played him bad. And that was perhaps his downfall… he trusted too much.
So when I’m asked if I agree with the pardon of Erap I think the question should be placed in the context of all the criminals outside of prison and who’s forever eluded justice due to influence and power.
Honestly speaking I admire Erap for standing out and facing the truth for all its worth he’s one helluva brave person. You must give him credit for that.
Yet…
I do not agree with Eraps’ pardon If justice is to be served righteously and equally to each and everyone and that also applies to the President who’s forever eluded justice.
I do not agree with Eraps’ pardon because it bodes darkly for the plight of GMA and other criminals that by virtue of influence gets away with crimes against humanity.
I do not agree with Eraps’ pardon because it is given out by a President who cheated her way to office.
But let justice be afforded to the ones’ who had been asking for it for a long time and who deserves it.
But personally… justice in the Philippines? Are you crazy?
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:43 pm
Bon, d’accord, The Equalizer…
frombelow on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:52 pm
cjv
people here in caloocan are not disgusted with the pardon of erap, to tell you. it is the topic here while people are waiting for the nightly supply of water. i am from so i should know. what they are saying is that GMAQ is using pardon to appease erpa followers. I am sorry to disappoint you. But the people here are hailing the release of erap. so i belive the next people power will only be composed of perfumed ladies form Makati and tier husbands .
jose flaminggo on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:52 pm
tdc = mav = manindigan = sparks = equalizer
are you the guy who’s using bencard’s handle?
Dr. D. on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:55 pm
cvj, I hope all of us here would spread the word about it. If we could do it against Desperate Housewives, we surely could do it against the corrupt, deceitful, murderous, illegal tenant in Malacañang, with whom our lives and our children’s future are at stake.
The Desperate Housewives uproar was fueled by the snowballing power of email forwarding, so I’m raring to forward any email message that could capture the sentiment of most of us here (of course, the message would include a call to sign this petition), but I have neither the time nor the eloquence to write one.
Maybe something could be started here??
Btw, I’m a member of 20+ yahoogroups, so just imagine the impact.
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:56 pm
Si la laideur était une brique,Gloria serait la Grande Muraille de Chine.
jose flaminggo on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:58 pm
my boss is already a FREEMAN!
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:59 pm
jose flammingo:no
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:00 am
Co-opted is a better word
Manila Bay Watch on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:00 am
Hahahahahahha! “Si la laideur était une brique,Gloria serait la Grande Muraille de Chine.” Funny your quotes are The Equalizer, really funny.
(But The Equalizer, I think in fairness to those who don’t understand the language, would be good if you could post subtitles… Thanks.)
Manila Bay Watch on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:03 am
For starters, “Bon, d’accord” is “Well, OK..”
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:03 am
DR:D the “desperate Housewives” and the Malu Fernadez cases generated a lot of uproar because it affected the EGO of the masses.The pardon did not.sorry!
I’m with your cause.But let’s be realistic with what the Pinoy really thinks.
rego on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:04 am
Manuel,
Snap election? Do we have laws that would allow that to happen? What about the cost of holding such exercise
Trillanes’ petition on to oust Gloria. People can try. But I doubt if Gloria will ever resign. And I dont want her to resign.
B&W protest, OK na rin just to keep the “fire” burning…
I woudl still go with impeachment.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:05 am
If ugliness were a brick, my mother-in-law would be the Great Wall of China.
Manila Bay Watch on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:07 am
Hihihihi, The Equalizer, you ARE funny!
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:10 am
The best way to alleviate pain is through humor.Thanks God you are so far away from this living hell created by my mother in law.
manuelbuencamino on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:13 am
Rego,
If it’s me and not Manuel Quezon you are reacting to….read my comment I’m not hot about snap election anymore and I state why,
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:18 am
rmarod:hope NEMO is ok now,God bless my friend!
Dr. D. on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:19 am
Yes The Equalizer, I agree. Well at least, it’s a good start to “infect” our fellow email-checking Pinoy brothers and sisters of our outrage over the culture of impugnity that characterizes this administration, and hopefully that would lead to an awakening of their nationalistic spirit (I believe it’s somewhere there.)
And it’s not only about the pardon. As has been said here, to many of us it seems, it became the straw that broke the camel’s back. Let’s just hope and pray that somehow it would yield a similar effect to our kababayans, that somehow they would also see the current situation the way we’re seeing it.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:24 am
Dr D: we have a very apathetic bunch now.Even students are quiet.different during the struggle versus the conjugal dictatorship!
cvj on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:43 am
whatever, i’ll take what i can.
cvj on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:44 am
Dr. D, will do my part.
Dr. D. on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:48 am
The Equalizer: I guess there’s no harm if we try. If hoax email chain messages get forwarded, so can this be. It’s also a good way to send the message to the silently indignant that they’re not alone.
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:02 am
where were all of you when pardon for erap was just being proposed? time to shed crocodile tears again, huh? that b & w (blame & whine) movement, were were you? dead or near death but suddenly came alive at the first sight of blood?
why didn’t you have “people power” then, or was it fpw (few people power)? hypocrites, hypocrites, hypocrites!
cvj on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:06 am
Bencard, i know you can’t bring yourself to blame Gloria but i know you’re also hurting inside so it’s alright if you take it out on us.
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:15 am
the deed is done. you can’t put the genie back into the bottle. you can stage a lonely march at edsa without erap’s minions. meanwhile, i’ll have the rags ready to wife off you-know-what from your face, johnnie-come-latelys.
supremo on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:18 am
The online petition should be cleaned up.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:20 am
“’ll have the rags ready to wife off”
what does your wife got to do with this?lol
rego on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:22 am
Oo nga naman, there is just so much hypocrisy here. Bakit nga ba si Bencard lang ang nag iingay noon na wag eh pardon si Erap. Nang nangayari na , biglang andami rin palang ayaw sa pardon? A little too late though. Hindi naman pwedeng bawiin ang pardon. Eh di smells blood nga! hmmmm
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:27 am
equalizer, guess another “fodder for your cannon”, huh? my capampangan friend was dictating it to me and i thought it was “f” instead of “p” (lovl). seriously, it was my typo (again). thanks.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:29 am
bencard: just wanted to make you laugh! have nice weekend!
manuelbuencamino on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:53 am
Nabuhayan ulit si Bencard. Recovered from the shock of bribes in Malacanan and the ZTE kickbacks.
Now he has an issue – “where were all of you when pardon for erap was just being proposed?”
Naknampucha naman Bencard,
Kung nagprotesta ang BW nung pinopropose pa lang ang pardon sasabihin mo wala pang nangyayari galit na kayo.
Hindi ba yan din ang linya ng mga maka-Gloria about ZTE, “nacancel na nga bakit gusto pa ninyo imbestigahan?”
Sala sa init sala sa lamig.
Instead of attacking BW for acting when the pardon was granted, why don’t you defend the pardon?
Why don’t you justify prosecuting Erap for plunder if there was no intention to punish him for it pala? Six years in detention during trial and then after a guilty verdict the felon is pardoned even before he serves a day of his sentence.
Wadapak is going on man? Hindi mo ba kaya panindigan ang kabalastugan ng pardon?
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:53 am
“”Salamat kay Pangulong Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo sa pagbigay ng executive clemency at kung hindi niya ako binigyan ng executive clemency ay hindi niyo ako kaharap ngayong gabi. Kaya pasalamatan natin siya. Palakpakan natin siya (Thanks to President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo for giving me executive clemency because without it, I would not be with you here tonight. So let’s thank her. Let’s applaud her),” he said.INQUIRER”
Erap is certainly no Nelson Mandela! He should resume his acting career.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:03 am
“Oppositon”Senators Villar and Escudero praised GMA for the Erap pardon.
“Administration” Senators Gordon and Arroyo used strong words in airing their opposition to the move.
What’s happening?
manuelbuencamino on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:08 am
Thank you for the pardon.
I promised you I would recognize you as president and I would reconcile with you if you pardoned me….
Ngunit naalala mo ba yun deal ni Ninoy kay Imelda kung papayagan siya magpaopera sa America?
Kung nakalimutan mo na yun, eh don’t worry, papaalala ko sa iyo sa mga susunod na araw…..
Ano kaya? Abangan….
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:25 am
buencamino, please read my posts in the preceding thread and the ones cited by your friends concerning my puny (almost lonely) advocacy against the pardon. maybe a protest march after the conviction, and when pardon was being “negotiated”, was too much to ask. but you know, as well as i, that there was hardly an expression of opposition against it either in this blog or in the holier-than-thou media. i can name a few brave souls expressing disgust over the idea, eg., the C’at, Rego, Rom, Geo, etc., etc., but i don’t remember if you ever did.
i was hoping that there would be a firestorm of indignation when puno went to erap’s camp to “negotiate” the proposed pardon, then came out with the announcement that deal was already “plantsado”, and erap would be “home” before christmas. but there was none.
now, just look at you and the people around you. you guys make me sick!
d0d0ng on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:42 am
Tsokolet on, “In other words, with the fact that they won’t serve their sentence, our fight for graft and corruption will go useless….so where should we proceed from here if that will be the case? I guess the Judicial branch should intervene and give a fair and acceptable judgment.”
Judicial intervention is not possible. Judiciary is bound by constitution that the President can pardon.
Apparently, we have 2 brands of justice. The first one is the natural course of law that rightfully convicted Estrada on plunder. The second one is political dispensation given to the President by the Constitution in pardon or commutation.
If there is anything to be changed, it is the constitutional provision giving the President the political pardon. Justice should stay at Judiciary, not the Executive branch.
This is more of a reason to change the constitution and discard political dispensation or pardon.
The Ca t on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:48 am
I am still waiting.
Barbero on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 3:03 am
Errr
In order to have another edsa 2 make it a one big party. I went there nung edsa 2 dahil madaming libre at merong party atmosphere talaga. Pero pag yung talagang rally para sa prinsipyo huwag na natin bolahin pa ang ating mga sarili.
Nadala lang naman tayo ng kung ano ano nung andun na tayo sa edsa pero makikipag pustahan ako kung hindi lang dahil sa mga forwarded na text at kung ano anong balita na pare libre beer sa edsa! at libre din goldilocks e baka wala talagang pumunta. Sabihin na natin sinuportahan ng simbahan pero sigurado ba kayong dahil sa lakas ng appeal ni cardinal sin kaya me pumunta dun? Simple utos lang ng simbahan hindi pa natin masunod minsan yun pa kayang baka pupunta ka sa edsa para samahan si padre damaso?
Pasalamat tayo at medyo matatapos na ang erap saga. Sabihin nyo na ang lahat ng pwede nyong sabihin pero erap is the better man than most of us. Kung gago ba talaga sya e di dapat madugo sana ang edsa dos dahil meron ng rebellion, mutiny at treason na nangyayare. Isama mo pa ang mga kumunista na kala mo kung gaano kalinis. Baket walang dugong naganap kung talagang gago yung tao? kita mo ngayon ASAN KAYO NUNG NARINIG NYO NA ANG MGA PANDARAYA AT KUNG ANO ANONG KAGAGUHAN? puro dakdak ng dakdak sa mga blogs.
Magising kayo sa katotohanan. Andaming pagkakataon para matanggal si ginang arroyo pero asan kayo nung kailangan ng mga kung sino sino ng suporta?
Ang pardon ay nararapat lamang para sa isang tao na talaga naman pinag tulungan lamang ng mga matataas na tao at ng mga college graduate dahil hindi matanggap na ang isang hindi nakapagtapos ay pwedeng maging pangulo ng bansa. Ang pardon ay kabayaran lamang sa pagiging nde mainitin ng ulo ng isang makapangyarihan na tao para mag deklara ng pagdanak ng dugo. at isa pa, mga pinoy tayo. Madali lang naman tayo makalimot eh.
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 3:03 am
“Honestly speaking, I admire Erap for standing up and facing the truth for all its worth he’s one helluva brave person
yet…
I do not agree with Erap’s pardon If justice is to be served righteously and equally to each and everyone…” . Floyd Buenavente.
if an intelligent creature from mars stumbled upon these god-forsaken islands of ours, it would be amazed at how people, especially in this blog, could talk from both sides of their mouth.
Manila Bay Watch on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 3:30 am
I think Bencard, one thing you ought to consider seriously before you start galloping away with wild suggestions and counter punches, the reason why people weren’t really reacting to Gloria’s threat of pardon for Erap which I know was such a let down for lot of people especially you who have showed her unflinching support (but honestly, t’was no let down for me because I’ve always known Gloria was and can not be trusted with anything) was that few believed that Gloria would do it or be able to do it so quickly and be able to present it as a fait accomplit to the unsuspecting publifc — all in the midst of a plate of scandals including a blast that people thougt was a terrorist act. And as if by magic, it was there — heh!
Sure, I will agree that your favourite Gloria Macapagal has done it again, put one over everyone when everybody least suspected it, and as I once quipped, wonder if she had built in distress sensors… but doesn’t make her any more trustworthy or more honest than you would like and have always liked to give her credit for.
Having said that, there is really nothing to comment about the ‘pardon’; as far as I’m concerned, Erap and Gloria belong to the same mould, the deceitful, shameless, lying trapo mould, the same dirty, despicable breed of political despots. They deserve both to be kicked out of the political stage together — their political melodramas are ugly and quite honestly, their political acting is simply revolting.
Although I must say, I should be less harsh with Erap because I heard that he’s gonna use his free time now doing a remake of “Lintik lang ang walang ganti” (that Manuel Buencamino perhaps might be alluding to in his comment?) that would make contravida Gloria Arroyo swoon to destruction. But even the prospect of seeing a Gloria completely dumped at the till for a low class act, it’s the sheer principle! I don’t like watching political has beens continuing to make fun of and insisting on poking their lil dirty fingers in honest people’s lives…
Those two despots should just get lost…
They both make me sick! Yuck!
Meawhile, cheers to you Bencard, I sincerely suggest that you not take all these political melodramas involving megastars Gloria and Erap seriously.
To one and all — Advance Happy Halloween!
grd on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 3:40 am
folks, save all your energies till 2010. that’s were the big battle is. the erap pardon is not the spark that everyone’s been waiting for.
d0d0ng on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 4:03 am
grd on, “folks, save all your energies till 2010. that’s were the big battle is. the erap pardon is not the spark that everyone’s been waiting for.”
Exactly!
I may add watch out for military factor, they are out there wielding their famous withdrawal of support to get large share of the budget. Think of the 2008 P30 billion pension of nonperforming retired generals while everybody fighting for budget leftovers.
d0d0ng on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 4:28 am
“proclaiming the illegitimacy of an administration from which Estrada himself decided to seek a pardon only a legitimate president can grant.”
President Arroyo must be SMILING even when she sleeps.
The Ca t on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 8:43 am
What can you offer after EDSA whatever number it may be ?
When you go to war, you should have a game plan. Eh ang sainyo, sugod lang. Sus, makatulog na lang. O eto ang dollar, mag-isip ka muna kung may sasama sainyo.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:14 am
speaking of corruption, read this news item…
this only shows, these days, corruption exists even in america. but the big difference is how america confronts the perpetrators. sabi nga ni erap, ‘walang kama-kamag-anak, walang kai-kaibigan!’. pero sa pinas, basta kakosa, okey lang. at kung marami ka nang pera, kaya mo nang bilhin ang mga kalaban mo. sa tamang presyo, tameme na agad. kaya ayun, puro balimbing na politicians ang bunga ng hinayupak na sistema sa pinas.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:48 am
“GMA said she knew her decision “will be debated, welcomed and criticized,” but said “now, we all have to move on.”
“I believe that history will vindicate not only this executive act but also my innocence,” ERAP said.”
Here we come again, mmmm-mm-mm
Catch us if you can, mmmm-mm-mm
Timefor us to move on, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Now we gotta run, mmmm-mm-mm
No more time for fun, mmmm-mm-mm
When you’re getting angry, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Shaman of Malilipot on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:09 am
“Then again, it may also give Estrada a new lease on political life.”
mlq3, there are actually two conditions, the other being Erap cannot engage in politics again. This condition is in this: “WHEREAS, Joseph Ejercito Estrada has publicly committed to no longer seek any elective position or office”
As Fr. Bernas pointed out in his column today, the accepted jurisprudence is that violation of the condition of pardon forfeits the benefits of the pardon. And the interpretation of whether the condition of the pardon has been violated belongs solely to the President.
So, Erap can enter politics again only at the risk of forfeiting his pardon. Looks like GMA still holds a gun to his temple.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:09 am
Dave Clark Five
DinaPinoy on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:15 am
by proxy, nandyan si jinggoy, jude, loi, etc. hawak nila ang san juan. ganyan lang yan. kanya-kanyang teritoryo. ang mga binay, ayaw na ring pakawalan ang makati. di ba sabi ni erap, campaign leader pa rin siya? hindi naman elective position iyan di ba?
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:19 am
Profile of Two Leaders:
Joseph Estrada(Philippines)
Estrada has served more than six years in detention — six years and six months to be exact, as Estrada himself has pointed out. But where was he detained? First in an air-conditioned suite at the Veterans Memorial Medical Center in Quezon City, and then at his own well-appointed rest house in Tanay town, outside Manila — both hardly anyone’s idea of a prison.
Nelson Mandela(South Africa)
Nelson Mandela was imprisoned on Robben Island where he remained for the next eighteen of his twenty-seven years in prison. On the island, he and others performed hard labour in a lime quarry. Prison conditions were very basic. Prisoners were segregated by race, with black prisoners receiving the fewest rations.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:31 am
Only if society pay attention to the writing on the wall.
Bencard, I made my stand agst Erap’s pardon a long time ago. even b4 the idea was floated in the media.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:46 am
at GMA’s speech in front of businessmen where she justified Erap’s pardon, she emphasized 70 y/o and a dying mother as reasons for the pardon.
with those reasons, she should’ve included the soldiers convicted of Ninoy’s assassination. im sure all of them are past 70 y/o and have even outlived most of their loved ones.
in fact, if those were the only qualifications to getting pardon, all 70 yr olds can have a crime spree and expect pardon. then they can have their mothers poisoned to fulfill the next qualification.
dpat wala na akong makita pang past 70 y/0 sa kulungan.
The Probe Team or iWitness can both make documentaries of convicts more deserving of pardon than Erap and let’s see how GMA justifies their stay in prison. prolly something like this: but what can I get from them? you see, in everything the Mole do, the Mole only asks one question: what’s in it for the Mole?
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:51 am
ambabaw ng pucha talaga! the only way i can even contemplate pardon for Erap is if he even remotely shows remorse and ask for forgiveness. eh kahit yon wala eh! proud to the end ang gago. ang sarap saksakin habang nagtatalumpati kagabi.
BrianB on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:20 am
These are the worst of times, but alas, these are the best of times.
vic on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:21 am
Goodnight ladies and gentlemen for now I go and lay myself to sleep and in the cool wintery bliss I tonight will dream about the NBN deals, the Latest Bribery Scandals under the noses of the Guardians of thy Kingdom, the pardon of the Plunderer for the reason known only to the Queen, the unresolved Fertilizer Scams, the still ongoing “ helloGarci†and all who disappeared and not to be seen again and in the Morning I will awake and thanks myself and all mankind, all was just a Bad Dream.
Floyd Buenavente on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:24 am
“if an intelligent creature from mars stumbled upon these god-forsaken islands of ours, it would be amazed at how people, especially in this blog, could talk from both sides of their mouth.”
Bencard
one word. “PRAGMATIC” deal with it hehehe
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:32 am
siguro nga may pagka pantas itong si Manolo sa mga blogpost title nya. una yung kinaumagahan sumambulat na yung pagsabog sa G2. sumunod naman etong The Gathering Storm. And sure enough, me bagyong papalapit nga sa Pilipinas. lols.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:33 am
“These are the worst of times, but alas, these are the best of times.Brian”
true!Desperate housewife clinging to power BUT days are numbered.End stage now.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:34 am
siguro nga may pagka pantas itong si Manolo sa mga blogpost title nya. una yung COA Audit Bombshell, kinaumagahan sumambulat na yung pagsabog sa G2. sumunod naman etong The Gathering Storm. And sure enough, me bagyong papalapit nga sa Pilipinas. lols.
john marzan on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:42 am
i doubt that will happen.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:50 am
The Dots are getting connected very FAST…
-Jarius writes expose…
-Mike goes abroad(day before Senate hearing on ZTE)…
-Joey DV reveals details of ZTE mega scandal…
-Neri confirms Abalos bribe attempt…
-Abalos resigns…
-Impeach me filed…
-ZTE deal suspended/junked…
-Congressmen received bribes…
-Governors received bribes…
-GMA immunized…
-JDV under ouster threat…
-Ayala mall “big fartâ€â€¦
-Erap pardoned …
What’s NEXT to divert our attention from HER scandals(note:one headline-grabbing event per week now!)
rego on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:21 pm
Gloria can use all the diversionary tactics. But still its up to the people if they want to be diverted or not.
ikaw ba na divert ka ?
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:23 pm
FOCUS!
BrianB on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:34 pm
Yep, the Ayala bomb wasn’t meant to kill as massively as it did. I’m fairly convinced. MRT stations are far better targets, if your intention is to manufacture dead bodies, though I assume there are plainclothes officers there.
manuelbuencamino on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:39 pm
Bencard,
There’s a firestorm of indignation now. Kaya nga sinabi ko sa iyo na to you anything the anti-Gloria forces do is sala sa init, sala sa lamig.
I ignored the pre-pardon events because I believed the ZTE scandal and the Palace cash gifts should be our main focus, then and now.
I was not going to allow Erap to distract me from the real task of fighting ongoing corruption to focus corruption that occured in the past. Why ignore the thief who is in the process of robbing your house to go after someone who can’t rob you anymore? Everything at its proper time dude.
cvj on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:25 pm
Yes, that’s one of those contingencies.
inodoro ni emilie on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:34 pm
the resignation of erap was based on angara’s account. the pardon of erap was based on his lawyer’s appeal, not his. welcome to the way philippine justice is dispensed–decision by substitution.
for the record bencard, my stand has always been consistent: edsa2 was a texter’s party. i can’t be had in all this moro-moro.
pardon or no pardon, am with mb. “Why ignore the thief who is in the process of robbing your house to go after someone who can’t rob you anymore?”. somewhere in this chase, someone is deliberately trying to ignore the thief by the bedside. guezz whoooooo?
ay_naku on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 3:56 pm
pandering to what is perceived to be estrada’s still potent political clout is like surrendering to political blackmail. it is an act of cowardice. pgma should be mindful of history. his great father was much-criticized for allowing the deportation of harry stonehill before the government had a chance to convict him of massive corruption. she should avoid the same harsh judgment of history. – Bencard at October 23rd, 2007 at 9:57 am in “Evidence (Updated) entry
i really don’t know why erap [was pardoned.] i guess it was kind of like paying a ransom when your most beloved son’s life is at stake. whatever pgma’s real reason is, we probably will never know. it’s in her conscience and she will live and die with it. as i commented a few posts ago, one of her biggest failure is the inability to win over her enemies’ supporters to her side, or at least cooperate with her. maybe, just maybe, this will do the trick, for the general good. in such a case, the end justifies the means, i think. – Bencard at October 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pm in “The Gathering Storm†entry
if an intelligent creature from mars stumbled upon these god-forsaken islands of ours, it would be amazed at how people, especially in this blog, could talk from both sides of their mouth. (copy-pasted from, who else, Bencard, October 27th, 2007 at 3:03 am)
triolosbogus on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 4:38 pm
President Arroyo doesn’t need to win her enemies’ supporters to her side, but prove to them that they are on the wrong side..but was she able to do it? No. Instead she compounded her troubles by proving otherwise and her enemies multiply, yet she was able to survive for the remaining “loyalists” are paid with handsome ransoms of silver and gold, mostly in U.S. dollars…very hard to launder the pesos and they will remain loyal as long as the ransom keep pouring like honey from the skies or from the Treasury or from Loans..
grd on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 5:35 pm
“What was done to us last night by GMA was a humungous insult. What she did last night was indefensible. And downright paranoid. We mourn with all of you who are just as hurt and revolted.
And yes, we are proud that Manolo is a co-convenor of Black & White. Helga
mlq3,
just for the record, are you hurt and insulted with what GMA did re pardon of estrada?
cvj on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 5:46 pm
ay_naku, who would have figured that Bencard would be our very own Hamlet…
mlq3 on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 5:47 pm
grd. me? personally? no. why should i be hurt and insulted, when she’s being true to form?
what is happening is that things are getting clearer, and what may have been clear to a few in the past is clear to more, now.
cvj on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 6:05 pm
Well, we are overdue for a big earthquake.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 8:00 pm
manolo:Hi! do you think the Palace gang can sustain its diversionary tactics to draw away public attention from the ZTE deal?
tagabukid on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:00 pm
“i really don’t know why erap [was pardoned.] i guess it was kind of like paying a ransom when your most beloved son’s life is at stake. whatever pgma’s real reason is, we probably will never know.”
maybe bencard will never know because he’s been living in his alternate universe.
ang linaw-linaw ng reasons e… unless you have a business interest in government and a relative whose job depends on the survival of the Arroyo regime. Talagang malabo nga kung ganun.
But how clear is it?
1. Gloria Arroyo could not make the ‘Hello Garci’ issue go away. It has been a festering wound that continues to emit its stink and undermine her claims at legitimacy. Gloria has to placate Erap and his loyalists by granting a swift pardon, para naman mabawasan ang mga kalaban, parami kasi nang parami e. The idiot that Erap is, he now calls Gloria his President after calling her a usurper and ‘de facto President’ during his six-year detention. Get the point?
2. The ZTE scandal is pushing her administration closer to the precipice. Kitang-kita na ang pagkagahaman nila ng kanyang asawa and now that the scandal has exploded, they need something, anything – even an ‘accidental’ explosion in some posh mall – to take the heat off of them. Estrada’s pardon was a ‘masterful stroke’ in diversion especially if the whole idea of the plan is to buy time, which of course is the only plan that Gloria has.
To those people crying for proof that Gloria has a hand in the ZTE scandal, what do you think was Neri’s reason for invoking executive privilege?
If hindi niya alam ang overpricing at diskarte sa kickback ng asawa niya, why wont she allow Neri to talk? She ordered Neri to refuse Abalos’ bribe but allowed the deal to push through anyway (you can’t deny this because your president herself confirmed this while she was in India). At the very least, she is culpable here of abetting bribery. She’s indirectly pushing an onerous deal which is grossly disadvantageous to the government, so you have to ask yourself ala Manuel Buencamino
“Wadapak is my President doing?”
Ang malinaw sa akin, nagmamadali nang mangurakot si Mike at Gloria dahil they know the end is near. E ang kaso, nabulilyaso pa dahil meron na namang whistleblower at ang masakit pa e galing sa kanila mismong ‘inner circle’. Hassle si JDV3, dumulas pa ang $70M ni Mike. Tsk, tsk, tsk…pera na, natanso pa. buking!
If that still isn’t clear to you, you have to ask yourself: “Wadapak is da matter wit me?”
BrianB on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:20 pm
Will we get used to this Asiatic yin-yang morality where every action has its good and bad side?
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:46 pm
buencamino, nice try. the way i see it, you SECRETLY wished erap to be pardoned, but could not go public about it because of your ostentatious “outrage” regarding gma’s conjectural and speculative “corruption. now that the pardon has been done, you can shout from the highest mountain that you oppose the pardon. ain’t it so, dude?
qwert on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:50 pm
I have a lot to say against the pardon granted by GMA to ERAP, but I guess this issue is now water under the bridge. If what GMA did was wrong with regards to the pardon she gave to ERAP , was it legally wrong or morally wrong?
Legally wrong? I think not, what GMA did was within the purview of the Constitution:
ARTICLE VII-Section 19. “Except in cases of impeachment, or as otherwise provided in this Constitution, the President may grant reprieves,commutations, and pardons, and remit fines and forfeitures, after conviction by final judgment.”
It did not say when should the pardon be granted, so it is the sole prerogative of the President, in this case GMA.
But was it morally wrong? Now, who can be the judge of that? I can only speak for myself and to be blunt about it, no, I cannot be the judge of that decision. I am not a judge of morality and even if I am, I’m not a moral judge,and besides, who can compel and force the President using morality as an argument?
But I think the innocent,the children,they will be the judge of this decision. One day this decision will be written in the pages of our history books, the innocent, the young, the next generation will study it. Will this decision strengthen the moral fiber of the youth or will it be the opposite?
Morality is not only a “code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong” , it is also the sense of being a good example to those who will come behind us. An immoral man is he, who destroys the bright and promising future of the young.
…and I quote:
“It may be perfectly legal, but it may not be best
and helpful.”-1 Cor 10:23 ,The Living Bible
“We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we
borrow it from our children.†Native American Proverb
grd on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:54 pm
mlq3, thanks. i’m clarified.
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:03 pm
equalizer, from your long list, which is the “real” scandal and which are the diversionary? why don’t you cut to the chase and just call everything bad that happens in the philippines diversionary?
tagabukid, the way you talk, you seem to have a handle on truth. why don’t you be a witness and testify under oath, instead of yakkity-yakking about those “scandals” that you seem to know much about.
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:05 pm
I wonder whether Gloria really believes that she can pull the wool over our eyes all the time?
What do you think?
The Equalizer on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:08 pm
bencard:to me, it all started with “GARCI “tapes.Btw, I was for Gloria until that infamous call to Garci.
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:24 pm
quert, i’m fully in agreement with you. many in this blog have constituted themselves “judges” of morality, just like the biblical pharishees and self-righteous hypocrites. it could be that what pgma did was “the best and helpful” for finding a solution to the nation’s long-standing divisiveness and disunity. it that were so, then her act falls within the biblical criteria that you quoted.
ramrod on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:10 pm
Vic, I truly relate to this. Way back in college I joined the “no to tuition fee increase boycott classed”, “debt repudiation”, wherever my friends in LFS (League of Filipino Students) went, I would also go. Teargas and water cannons were always a part of the menu but hell we had all the energy, I was 24 years younger and 40lbs lighter. I always had Renato Costantino’s “Dissent and Counter Dissent” in my knapsack and at home I junked Marcos’ “Filipino Ideology.”
My father always reminded me that I will find it difficult to get a job if I’m labeled as an “activist” and that some policemen are secretly taking pictures of all those who joined the rallies. I disregarded his warnings thinking that he’s had too many skirmished with the KMU/labor union picketing/blocking the gates of his company. But one year later, as I went with my mother to the supermarket I saw a very active member of LFS bagging groceries, I didn’t approach her as I didn’t know what to say to her. My father’s warning ringed in my ears the whole day and all through the night. I stopped going to the rallies and instead took the PMA entrance exams, one, to wipe out all traces of activism, two, to run away from home and live independently from my father…sure enough after graduating from college I joined a multinational company…
ramrod on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:19 pm
qwert,
Hi there! I took the big plunge (with my wife) and sponsored a child just this afternoon, imagine for only 5,000Php or so you can send a child to school for one year. We chose a 6 year old girl living in Misamis. I talked to the staff of World Vision personally, and I found out that you can send birthday gifts, christmas gifts, and care packages through their office and you get updates on the child’s grades, etc. We even have a complete profile of the child and picture, one day Nemo (my son) will get to meet his new “ate.” If you’re going to their office next week (natuloy ba uwi mo?) I can drive you there, its just in Quezon Ave. The foundation has a target of 3,000 children sponsored for this year, so far they have only 500 sponsors currently, thanks for the link, I’ll send it to as many friends as I can…
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:25 pm
mbw, how could you say “gloria” did it when everybody least suspected it, or that everybody was surprised, when it was all in the papers and on tv that puno went or talked to erap’s camp before and after the conviction to “negotiate” the pardon, going so far as to publicly predict that the deal would be completed before christmas. did the “blame & whine” movement give a hoot, let alone threaten their favorite solution – “people power”?
ramrod on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:40 pm
bencard,
I guess most of us (to include the B&W Movement) were aware of the negotiations for Erap’s pardon were ongoing because they (Puno et al) didn’t really hide this from us. We were just not expecting GMA would actually do it. If you followed the EDSA 2 events you could have seen/heard the indignant words GMA had for Erap and she looked/sounded really, exremely serious and sincere about it. So who would expect her to change her mind now?Even the special prosecutors didn’t expect it as the verdict was just announced.
I will forever look at people, B&W Movement, and others with respect, as these people at one time or another put their lives, careers, time, and efforts and acted on what they believed in and to a great extent benefited the majority of Filipinos living here. Not so many people will ever have the courage to do that…
ramrod on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:57 pm
bencard,
Here’s a link from youtube re GMA’s rise to power, please check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh9bECSgfqk
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:00 am
bencard,
I sent you a youtube link re “Power Grab from President Joseph Estrada,” but its under moderation. Please try to check it out.
rego on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:10 am
My father always reminded me that I will find it difficult to get a job if I’m labeled as an “activist†and that some policemen are secretly taking pictures of all those who joined the rallies.
Today this can affect your entry to the US and if you are already here woudl affect you application for citizenship. Coudl this be teh reason of some apathy among the students now.
In college, I was very much involved on the work Campus Crusade for Christ International , preaching the love of Christ every time I got the change. And I got into a lot of trouble with my father and my mother too ( They are both very devout catholic). There was even a time that I thought I have calling for partorship. And this really alarmed them.
In the end they won over me, But when I got too wild and my alcoholism became out of control. They pleaded that I go back to the Bible….
rego on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:11 am
Oh why is that is not working again naktsamaba lang pala ako noon.
rego on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:19 am
I guess most of us (to include the B&W Movement) were aware of the negotiations for Erap’s pardon were ongoing because they (Puno et al) didn’t really hide this from us. We were just not expecting GMA would actually do it
mlq3 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:23 am
equalizer,
ramrod can correct me if i’m wrong, but usually the advantage is with the defender and not the attacker. so, in possession of the levers of power, the president still holds many cards. and when you are fighting for your political life, playing for high stakes means you will continue playing for big stakes…
the president’s weakness at this point is that she is a battle of attrition; her strategy has been to buy time every time a new offensive has been launched by her enemies. the breathing room allows her to marshal her forces, keep the faithful rallying to her cause, and every day she survives saps the strength of her critics, until the next time.
but attrition has taken its toll on her and those she relies on. if it’s true that ermita has been sent abroad, not just to lobby vs the alston report but as a way to ease him out of being executive secretary, and if its true bunye is not just acting but will be the next executive secretary, it shows how the president’s scraping the bottom of the barrel. there aren’t enough loyalists left to fill all the major positions that have vacancies.
attrition, too, has taken its toll on her critics. the opposition forces are now wondering who is still an oppositionist and who has made a deal with gma, whether to secure estrada’s pardon or to secure palace support in 2010 or in agreement with charter change to expand both gma’s and other personalities’ options in 2010. every crisis is an opportunity then, not just for individual groups in the opposition but for the president, too.
the resumption of congress on nov. 5 is one potential flash point; so is the prospect of impeachment (not yet fully killed in the house); so is the resumption of charter change; so is the resumption of senate hearings; so is oil reaching $100 a barrel by christmas. so are the vacancies in the civil service commission, the commission on audit, the supreme court, the position of afp chief of staff, the comelec, next year.
right now, the president’s core constituency in the middle and upper classes have been shaken by the estrada pardon. the opposition will be shaken by the inquirer’s headline tomorrow, where serge remonde is quoted as saying the palace is considering giving estrada an anti poverty position. politics and nature abhors a vacuum.
the president and the opposition, stuck in trench warfare, are both hoping they will come up with a way to break the logjam, the way the invention of the tank had such an impact on trench warfare in world war 1.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:23 am
Re: “We were just not expecting GMA would actually do it”
That’s my thought too besides there were too many scandals that were blurring the Gloria-Erap scene.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:32 am
Bencard,
Re: mbw, how could you say “gloria†did it when everybody least suspected it, or that everybody was surprised,”
My earlier post said the same thing Ramrod and Rego are saying now so I suppose, I could say it again:
“…few believed that Gloria would do it or be able to do it so quickly and be able to present it as a fait accomplit to the unsuspecting public” especially when scandals after scandals were blurring that pardon scene…
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:37 am
Ramrod,
I don’t know if World Vision will allow you to meet your adopted child (not sure). We have adopted 2 children so far through World Vision Brazil (we’ve been with the program for 10 years now).
My own children couldn’t send her more gifts than they would like to even on the birthdays of their adopted sisters due to the very strict rules.
manuelbuencamino on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:41 am
Bencard,
No I did not Secretly wish Erap would be pardoned “but could not go public about it because of my ostentatious “outrage†regarding gma’s conjectural and speculative “corruption. now that the pardon has been done, you can shout from the highest mountain that you oppose the pardon. ain’t it so, dude?”
Why am I not surprised that the only way you could respond to me was to attribute secret motives to my course of action?
That’s so weak it’s unbelievable even from you.
I don’t attribute secret motives to discredit your belief that charges of corruption are conjectural and speculative. I take your assertion at face value, that you really believe she is good and honest, and then I feel sorry for you…after I’ve exhausted myself laughing at you how gullible you are.
Think about it. Practically the entire cabinet showed up to demonstrate Malacanan’s willingness to cooperate with the investigation.
And then the Senate asked for documents and testimony from the government to see if there was any basis to the allegations of bribery aired by Joey De Venecia and Neri.
And that’s when the government stopped cooperating.
Instead of presenting documents and testimony that would prove to the public that the ZTE deal was aboveboard, Malacanan invoked executive privilege and took to answering the bribery allegations through press releases that are not supported by facts.
Why did Malacanan choose to take the “He said, I say” route instead of letting documents speak for themselves?
If you have nothing to hide then you hide nothing.
How many brain cells does it take to figure that out, dude?
mlq3 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:47 am
ramrod, mbw, so world vision isn’t some religious brainwashing thing?
mlq3 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:49 am
haven’t been able to respond so much, folks, because have had a jolly debate with djb over at his blog:
http://philippinecommentary.blogspot.com/2007/10/either-pdi-is-lying-or-four-anonymous.html
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:57 am
mlq3, equalizer,
I agree that a defensive position has the advantage over the offensive but in order to sustain this advantage the position must meet certain prerequisites: 1) high ground – it must be an “unassailable” position, the attacker faces tremendous loss of manpower and resources, 2) fortification , 3) resupply lines – the position defended must have access to supply re food, ammunition, etc. 4)reinforcement line – the defenders must have a clear and protected route for reinforcement of troops
5)communication line 6) morale of the defenders
Otherwise, the strength of the defender will whittle away over time (or rapidly depending on the strength of the attacker and prevailing circumstances), most especially if the morale is affected, if they start to lose sight of what they are defending or fighting for and start fighting amongst themselves. It is vital that the pressure from the attacker is sustained all throughout the campaign, not necessarily by direct assault but by harassment, attacking the 6 (it might be more) prerequisites…
BTW, I always use this when playing “Generals” (pc game) and it works…
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 12:58 am
mlq3,
Nope. World Vision is a foundation for child sponsorship.
Bencard on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:02 am
ramrod, many thanks, as usual for youtube link. curiously, who produced this video, at whose expense? i think the source has to be considered. this subject has been debated unabatedly and will continue to be the subject of controversy in years to come. one thing we should avoid is seeing the tree but not the forest. it was kind of machiavellian, but hey, there are very few things, if any, in this world that are not controversial. as commenter buenavente above quipped, “pragmatism”. i think that’s the name of the game.
btw, this is not saying that erap was not guilty of personally plundering the wealth of the nation -a heinous crime that calls for extreme retribution, not just forceful deprivation of power by the people who have bestowed it, when no other option is available.
there are occasions when the “rule of law” is supplanted by mass action. ancient and contemporary history is replete with cases of complete change of government by revolution. legality becomes irrelevant when the overthrow succeeds and has the support of the majority of the people. but those are the keys. success and support. edsa i and 2 both had that. edsa 3 (if you can call it that) did not. all the recent agitations for gma’s ouster do not have the full support of enough people, ergo, no success.
mlq3 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:03 am
ramrod, what’s the difference in layman’s terms, between strategy and tactics? is the president a strategic player or a tactical one?
and is there any relevance to the fact that her closest advisers now, are former police generals? even if some are from the pma, isn’t there a difference in the way someone with mainly constabulary/pnp experience would approach things?
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:06 am
Mlq3,
Re: “ramrod, mbw, so world vision isn’t some religious brainwashing thing?”
Funny you asked that. 10 years ago when my husband and I were considering participating in the World Vision child sponsoring project, we were ‘warned’ that it was a CIA-sponsored operation of some kind.
We just shrugged off the ‘warning’ and went ahead and joined.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:07 am
Gloria, a great tactician but not an excellent strategist – heh!
BrianB on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:09 am
My God, at this point she should all be tactical. If she thinks strategically, she must be some sort of mad President with King Jong Il-like mentality.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:13 am
SCAM. forgot where i saw it, but i saw a documentary about these kind of charity scams. rule of thumb: don’t give money unless you can personally see where it’s going. in World Vision’s case, it’s so easy to concoct photos and reply letters, even sob stories. And isn’t it just convenient that they have very strict rules agst meeting your beneficiary?
if you’d like to help, help here. there’s a school Michael Tan wrote about, which he called “greenhouse schools,” which I think have a very good model, and rightly deserves help. There’s two other little heard-of foundations I chanced to read about which I’d like to recommend, having found it to be notable and not SCAMS, only that I forgot their names. The first one I read in a PDI article, and the other one I saw in a news segment.
mlq3 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:17 am
devils, if you can find links, they’d be helpful.
i hope rego will weigh in, too, he has practical experience in helping provide scholarships.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:21 am
Devils,
My thought was and continues to be that it’s will be difficult to do anything constructive if we continue to be suspicious of everything. I do realize the wise thing to do is to inspect, see for yourself, etc, etc. but not always easy to do so in the end, you make your choices and hope to God the choice you make are right. But thanks for the reminder.
Re RP: My family and I are also participating in similar efforts in the Philippines.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:23 am
mlq3,
I got this from wikipedia:
A strategy is a long term plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal, most often “winning”. Strategy is differentiated from tactics or immediate actions with resources at hand by its nature of being extensively premeditated, and often practically rehearsed.
Yes, circumstances tend to point the relevance of GMA’s advisers (former police generals) as her moves have been tactical (immediate actions) in nature, police are oriented to reacting as opposed to overall victory (overwhelming/complete annihilation/control of the enemy). Unless she has something else up her sleeve, but even bencard will agree that its been pretty much predictable. If we look at bencard’s comments he’s quite on the dot, just don’t mind the irritating extras.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:24 am
(con’t… but not through World Vision)
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:30 am
devils,
Thanks for the heads up, I will try to follow up. I believe mbw had difficulty with meeting the beneficiary because its in Brazil, whereas the child we chose I know where the place is, I can drop by anytime. The foundation has a booth in megamall so it sort of lessens the chances of it being a scam (I hope). Anyway, remembering the old adage “a fool and his money are soon parted,” its best to make sure…
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:35 am
Ramrod, if I may translate that in business staff terms:
The managing director is usually the strategist while his salesmen are the tacticians.
But together they may formulate the winning strategy, and even devise the sales tactics together for meeting turnover forecast.
On the military operational ground right on the war front: the generals strategize (formulating concepts and principles for victory) while the ground commanders (usually the colonels and down the line) execute the tactics, to implement the strategy.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:37 am
bencard,
The youtube video is probably produced by Erap sympathizers, but those video documentaries are hard to manipulate (it gets obvious).
It shows there the extreme measures (though one sided) to oust Estrada. Its also interesting the way GMA discussed the plots with the generals in public and Mike Arroyo admitting to newspaper interviews also. Thats why I was surprised when she pardoned Erap, after all they went through.
BrianB on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:40 am
Megamall doesn’t have scammy booths?
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:47 am
Mlq3,
Re strategy and tactis, Karl von Clauswitz’ On War I think is a very good reference not only in time of war but even in peace time almost even for business or where groups of people are involved.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:49 am
mbw,
Yes. Good comparison, you just summed up my job description as a salesman. Although in this age of global/regional organizations, the salesmen themselves are responsible for the regional areas of responsibilities for both strategy and tactics, the managing director will just make sure everything is in accordance with the overall strategy (having a healthy bottomline) and no one deviates, at least too far. Of course, this is due to so much advancements in technology and new fangled systems like shared resources, etc.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:53 am
Ramrod,
Yep — re “salesmen themselves are responsible for the regional areas of responsibilities for both strategy and tactics,” that’s how it usually is in international business or for companies doing export sales.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:58 am
“Megamall doesn’t have scammy booths?” – brianb
I sure hope so, because all I have to show is that I talked to the staff and they seemed nice and sincere, and this profile with a picture on it and a brochure with Christian Bautista, Miriam Quiambao, and Nikki Gil in it. Hmmmmmm……I would like to go with mbw and leave it all to God but someone once told me “trust in God but lock your car.”
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:59 am
Ramrod,
Are you Sales Manager for RP and another country or just RP?
vic on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:02 am
Donating money to Charities is a “caveat emptor” proposition. But World Vision, Christian Children’s Fund are some of the many charitable orgs that have established their reputations as upstanding during years in operations. World Vision has been around since the 50s and was not rocked with substantial scandals during the time. And since donations to the charities are Tax Deductibles records are kept according to the Revenue Rules.
But experienced had shown us, that there are personalities that will and do try to beat the system and even the most watched and best guarded Nation’s Treasury is not safe with conniving and conspiring officials on the take and that is mostly the topics we are discussing (or arguing) on this site..still everyone bewares because like what is happening now, tomorrow your friend is your enemy and your enemy is your friend (means Erap said “let’s applaud Pres. Arroyo) see what I meant…
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:02 am
It has Family First. Scam shooting through a legal loophole.
MBW, don’t mind me. I’m naturally distrustful of anything I can’t see for myself I should trust. We all have our own ways of helping. As for me, I give my time and my own person. (I join medical missions and teaching stints). I hate dole-outs. Because I see it as a cop-out and guilt-absolving without the risks. In fact, sometime back in this blog, I had a lengthy post about my vision of a perfect foundation.
Oh, geez. I wish TDC were here. If you noticed, I’m terrible when it comes to links and exact quoting. My memory fails me when it comes to where I came across a certain information, only that I’m certain I must’ve read or seen it somewhere. I read and watch A LOT. And when I mean A LOT, boy, i really mean A LOT.
I remember I read about that first foundation on a PDI paper that was used as a paper wrap for daing. And that second one was actually a school featured in GMA news.
I guess this makes me a failure as a researcher. Will try to search for it. But Inquirer archives is not exactly friendly. It’s on the blink a lot, and only goes so far back. (in fact, I sent a suggestion that Inquirer make this a paid service to support having to add servers to support such a large, complete archive. i know many students and researchers will be thankful, and willing to pay for such service, including me)
As for that GMA segment, I don’t think I can find it anywhere.
ramrod, you’re welcome.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:05 am
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:09 am
one link down.
blockquote>Yes. The key to “social mobility†is not really to flood the poor with money. Money can only get them so far. The key is to help open up opportunities for them. With opportunities, they themselves can do the work and lift themselves out of poverty. Sometimes I think charity should be more about giving one’s time and abilities rather than just a guilt-absolving trip of money giving. What if there’s a foundation that doesn’t accept cash, and only accepts those who are willing to part with a little of their time, and expertise? An NGO that is pure volunteer work. An NGO that facilitates volunteership. Welcomes anyone wanting to help, and identifies where these people can help the most, and then teach these people how. What I’m envisioning is an organization that is like just being middle-men for buyers and sellers. A well-to-do individual wants to help. He goes to this organization and signifies his intention to do so. He is not asked for cash. He is asked for his schedule. He is not asked for a check. He is asked for his skills and expertise. Perhaps the individual says he is a banker, or perhaps a businessman. He is then asked how long he intends to offer his help. Perhaps the man was just taken by a flight of fancy and says he’d just like to try it out for a few days. His schedule is taken and matched to a database. Somewhere near his area, a benificiary group is in need of his skills and expertise. This group have just finished classes equivalent to that of HS (also given by volunteer teachers) and are wanting to learn abt business. Perfect match. If the man decides to continue with his volunteer work, then its just another convert for this organization. If not, then the organization has set-up a system covering the relief of temporary volunteers with permanent ones. What we have is a one-stop-shop charity arbiter. Welfare is so outdated. And foundations who bank on them equally so.
my complete post is here:
http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1506#comment-580905
BrianB on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:11 am
Ramrod, about Gloria strategy or tactic.
I’d be so afraid if she is thinking strategically right now. That means extension of her office. Most definitely, otherwise ad hoc crisis management principles should be enough to fend off the fat two-legged dogs of Philippine justice.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:14 am
Boystown and Girlstown. Michael Tan’s greenhouse schools.
2 links down. (supply the missing http and ://)
opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view_article.php?article_id=83948
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:14 am
Steven Covey may not agree with you entirely on this. War strategies and tactics can be applicable in business except one – its a win/lose proposition. Some business gurus nowadays are even saying that competition is out, in comes “coopetition” (competitors cooperate for the common good/big picture) come to think of it GMA must have read the book?
And lately military/PMA graduates are not a priority for PNP positions due to their body count mentality.
And yes, I’m sales manager for the Philippines, a trade off so I can stay here and not in Singapore, but there are rumors that Myanmar will be added to my responsibilities, I may have to jog again and practice ducking and crawling huh?
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:16 am
BrianB,
I her objective is to extend her term in office she must start thinking in terms of strategy and not rely on hit and run tactics. (Even if the latter have been good strategy for the NPAs…)
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:21 am
“I’d be so afraid if she is thinking strategically right now. That means extension of her office. Most definitely, otherwise ad hoc crisis management principles should be enough to fend off the fat two-legged dogs of Philippine justice.” – brianB
This is where sustained pressure from cause-oriented groups come in, to make keep her on the defensive, keep her minions busy putting out fires.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:24 am
Ramrod,
When I refer to the Clauswitz’ strategy and tactics for peace time application, I actually refer to his philosophy that he advanced as war principles that one finds in in cases when companies compete or fight it out with others for control of a selected market. There are other areas of business where his philosophy can be applied even at the business operational level.
I agree however in the ultimate, war is a win-lose proposition but we find that today too in global business (and believe me in my line of business, the principles of Clauswitz On War is very helpful) although must agree with you entirely that ‘parameters for war’ should and must not apply in the seller-buyer area.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:25 am
devils,
Unfortunately, thats all I’m good for right now, but I was thinking more on the lines of at least keeping one kid off the streets and in school. I’ll have to trust Vic in this, for now.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:27 am
The jargon some businessmen use when competing against another to land a market are basic war terms: Kill, maim, eliminate, annhilate, etc etc etc.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:30 am
this is not the PDI “daing wrap” article I read, but something I read much recently. Also worth mentioning.
http://www.inquirer.net/specialfeatures/thegoodnews/view.php?db=1&article=20070921-89822
as you can see, I’m attracted supporting education. bec that’s where we can really help in alleviating poverty.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:34 am
Ramrod,
Re Myanmar: Fabulous! Hope you get it! Your being a former military men will be an advantage rather than a disadvantage. (One of my holiday dreams is to be able to visit Myanmar.)
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:35 am
mbw,
I agree, I keep hearing “make the enemy bleed”, “crush the competition” during meetings, sometimes I think these people are kidding. The global market is so big, too big even for one suppier to satisfy, there is actually room for everybody without resorting to price cuts and sacrificing margins for market dominance, because in the end all business suffers.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:37 am
ramrod, as i said, we have our own ways and beliefs re helping others. don’t waver jz bec of what i said.
one less kid off the streets is one less mugger who may kill your son.
so yeah, don’t mind me.
vic on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:37 am
Devil,
There are a lot of concepts for a successful operations of Charities. We must also remember that Charitable Orgs, being non- government organization are also Jobs providers. The ideal charities will devout 60% to 70% of its funds to its charitable works, be they are in donation of cash, government grants or volunteer time by some of their workers.
Another good concept is the establishment of an Umbrella Head Organization whose job is to Campaign for funds, awareness and works of all charities that depends on its funding. One of these is the United Way. The United Way is an Umbrella NGO who is responsible for substantial part of funding of hundreds of smaller organizations.
I was privileged to work in one of its agencies( as a volunteer for so many years) whose works involve in providing transportation to Seniors to their doctors’ appointment,hospitals, shopping or wherever they wish to go or a ride to the centre where they can socialize with others and keep them pre-occupied and also save the government in lot of care expenses if they choose to live in nursing homes instead of staying in their houses and apartments and get the mobility they needed..Any charitable orgs that serves its intended goals and purposes is a worthwhile undertakings… but there are so many who also use them for an easy money and for sinister purpose, like raising funds for terrorism and terrorist organizations and some just for their milking cows. And there are many.. So be very careful and always remember..â€buyers bewareâ€..
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:39 am
Yes. I remember Estrada had this foundation for the Muslims thing, but it was bogus.
BrianB on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:40 am
“There are a lot of concepts for a successful operations of Charities”
Is there a Charity concept that go hand in hand with social welfare?
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:43 am
devils,
I will never “not mind you,” you drive a good point, only fools act on something without looking at all the angles.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:48 am
“Is there a Charity concept that go hand in hand with social welfare?” – brianB
I believe if the charity focuses on education it is related to social welfare though in the long term. I remember in grade school I had classmates who lived in the squatter areas but were “CCF” scholars, and this was a private school. One classmate became a chemical engineer and now works for a big company, and the other is a lawyer in Cebu (of course this is not good news, another lawyer?).
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:58 am
I have to say goodnight guys, I have to be a role model tomorrow and bring everybody to church. Lets try to monitor cause-oriented groups (B&W movement, etc) and how they are exerting pressure on the administration, or how the administration is imploding or weakening because of dropped balls/mistakes, I hope this is not just wishful thinking…
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 3:05 am
Don’t know if this Philstar news is the first scene of the remake of “Lintik lang ang walang gantiâ€â€¦.
“Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim said he plans to invite Estrada to the Manila City Hall and set an official welcome ceremony for the former president.
“He said Estrada’s visit will delight Manila residents who have supported the ex-president while he was detained.â€
Heh! Lights, camera, action!!!!
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 3:23 am
coopetition. in other words, cartels.
Another good concept is the establishment of an Umbrella Head Organization whose job is to Campaign for funds, awareness and works of all charities that depends on its funding.
ramrod, tnx for your belief in me.
indeed a very good idea. it frees up the actual NGOs to do the work without worrying about funding. may i also add that we can have an umbrella organization that screens all purported charities and NGOs so that we can unmask which are fronts and which are veritable charities. kind of like VeriSign or ISO. a seal or being a member means your are trustworthy.
vic on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 4:42 am
“Is there a Charity concept that go hand in hand with social welfare?†– brianB
I would say quite a few..one is the Food Bank, which is mostly operated by volunteer workers and accept donations in non-perishable foods for distribution to working poors and families whose income would mostly go to foods if not for the food banks, thereby enabling them to spend some of their incomes on other essentials. This also targets social assistance recipients whose monthly stip-ends from social services just barely enough for essentials.
Fire Departments and most Groceries Stores are the partners of the Food Bank who collect and delivers food to the Banks..
ay_naku on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 5:48 am
Speaking of charitable institutions and social welfare:
unicef.org/philippines/support
childrenshour.org.ph
ayalafoundation.org
I believe they have good reputations as well. For those who don’t have the time/inclination/capacity for hands-on volunteerism but would like a hassle-free way to help financially, in the unicef page, one can give monthly donations through credit card (you can specify the number of months, and your specified amount will just be automatical billed to your card for the duration period.)
Bencard on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 7:36 am
jdv iii, the supposed squealer, said in no uncertain terms tha gma was not involved in any way in the zte deal except giving the o.k. to approve it. this was corroborated by his father. neither did neri, who just invoked the executive privilege when, in his own view, the question being propounded to him impinged on confidential executive matters. if you think there’s something incriminatory to the president behind such invocation, speculate to your heart’s content – that’s your right. but that will not make the president “guilty” or impeachable, much less indictable.
but then again, maybe you have something else that could “nail” the president in your possession. if so, do your duty as a good citizen and volunteer to testify under oath.
i’m sure the likes of lacson, cayetano, et al., are eagerly awaiting for you like a lost traveler in sahara waiting for a drink of water.
btw, your excuse doesn’t hold water. if mlq3 can tackle multi topics at a time, why can’t you? if your capacity to handle issue is limited to one at a time, i would understand. just say so.
Bencard on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 7:40 am
my last post was addressed to manuel buencamino in response to his 12:45 a.m. comment
rego on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:41 am
” Devils,
my thought was and continues to be that it’s will be difficult to do anything constructive if we continue to be suspicious of everything. I do realize the wise thing to do is to inspect, see for yourself, etc, etc. but not always easy to do so in the end, you make your choices and hope to God the choice you make are right. But thanks for the reminder. ”
Its the same way with me.
Our scholarship project was questioned so many times by other members of the group and the rival group. There wwere even some smear campaign against it from within the group. Some are really vicous that led to the resignation of the first scholar manager. But he remained a supporter until now.
But all those questions and smear campaigns were just answered soberly and we just move on with the project. And it just stopped.
80% of us actually havent meet all the people that are involved in our project. Ive met those that came to visit NYC.We also dont know the names of the scholars. They are simply referred as “Isko” in all communications.
But any donors who wanted to meet the scholars are accompany teh scholar manager during the monthly meeting with the scholar.
Our project just operates based on THRUST. And we dont require all the members to give donations. Yung gusto lang magbigay.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:52 am
rego, may i know the name of your org?
rego on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:55 am
By the way, I myself is a product of an scholarship project by Atlas Mining Corporation.
But I like the way our scholarship is being conducted. We just dont dole out allowances to the benficiaries. We make sure that the scholar can finish college with a very decent academic record at that. This is also the reason why we require the scholars not to join fraternities and they can not work too. we want them to just focus on their studies.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:58 am
The European School in Manila have also offered scholarships in the past; believe they have set a number of places for poor but deserving students yearly.
rego on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:00 am
devils, email me
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:05 am
Another school that’s totally funded through scholarship programmes (and license fees from merchant marine officers and seamen) is the Maritime Academy of Asia and the Pacific (MAAP)in Bataan. Tuition fees would run in millions (like in the PMA) but students who make it throught the tough screening and entrance exams don’t pay a cent for the 4 year course. When graduates pass the board exams, they are assured of employment right away with companies that fund the institution.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:08 am
MAAP is the most successful fully scholarship-run non-government para-military academy in the Philippines and is run by a former FOIC; academy rules are pattered after the PMA.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:19 am
rego, it’s a conundrum for me. how? you didn’t post your address nor any way of how i can contact you.
rego on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:20 am
oh sorry. its alden40@ gmail.com.
Wakin on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:19 pm
Kumusta po kayo Mga Pinoy,
Sa akin pong palagay ay dapat nang bigyan ng tuldok ang isyu tungkol kay Erap. Matapos siyang matanggal sa pagka Pangulo, kasuhan, makulong, mahatulan at bigyan ng kapatawaran ng ating Pangulo, wala na sigurong dapat pag-usapan pa tungkol sa kanya.
Ako man ay hindi pabor na patawarin si Erap nang ganun kabilis, pero wala po tayong magagawa kundi ang sundin ang isinasaad ng ating Saligang Batas, na pinagtibay ng higit na nakakaraming Filipino noong 1987. Ang tinutukoy ko po ay ang kapangyarihan ng Pangulo na magbigay ng kapatawaran sa sinumang nagkasala at nahatulan ng ating hukuman. Sinunod naman ng pangulo ang 3 limitasyon ng kanyang kapangyarihan na magpatawad. Kaya tayong Filipino ay dapat na suportahan at sundin ang legal na mga kautusan ng taong binigyan natin ng kapangyarihan – ang ating Pangulo.
Tungkol sa madaming akusasyon sa ting Pangulo, ito ang masasabi ko – Hangga’t walang nakakapagpatunay na ang ating pangulo ay nagkasala, walang sinuman, kahit na ang ating mga obispo, ang dapat na humatol sa ating Pangulo. Ang pagpapatalsik sa Pangulo ay malinaw na nasasaad sa ating Saligang Batas. Bakit hindi natin hayaan na maipatupad ang nasasaad sa ating mga batas – sa halip na ilagay natin sa ating mga kamay? Kung hindi magawa ng Kongreso, sino ba ang dapat sisihin? Di ba tayo na nagluklok ng ating mga congressman sa kanilang mga puwesto?
Ang ating pong bayan ay mananatiling magulo at mabagal ang pag-unlad kung hindi tayo matututong (1)tumanggap ng ating mga pagkakamali, (2)magdusa sa ating mga pagkakamali, at (3) magtuwid ng mga yaong pagkakamali sa susunod na halalan.
Wakin
Abe N. Margallo on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:29 pm
“Much as everyone saw the pardon coming, what I don’t think anyone outside of official circles expected was for it to be used so crudely, so patently politically: a historic verdict required a historic demonstration of presidential statesmanship; instead, it was a tool used to blunt the effects of embarrassing headlines resulting from the Senate hearing; and it was a brusque dismissal of those who, all these eventful years, stubbornly insisted on giving the President the benefit of the doubt because she had to be, somehow, better than her predecessor.†– mlq3
I share many of Manolo’s sentiments.
In the run-up to People Power 11, my wish had been for Erap to be held accountable to the impeachable offenses he was accused of and that if the impeachment process would be trifled with in the Senate the people should exercise the sovereign prerogative of the “last say†and remove him from office via People Power. Following People Power, I hoped Arroyo would then declare a revolutionary government; and to put a quick political closure on the matter, with her revolutionary powers brought to bear upon Erap, consider executive clemency after a bargained plea of guilty and force an ousted president into exile.
Had the above scenario been consummated, Arroyo would then have as much opportunity as Cory Aquino of (the still undying) People Power 1 fame, to start afresh. But the forces of conservatism had in fact an easier time prevailing upon Arroyo to revert quickly to the status quo ante, a course subsequently legitimated by the Supreme Court by declaring that People Power II revolution was inchoate, hence the Court’s rationale for intra-constitutional change of “constructive resignation†instead of regime change.
Instead of far-reaching transformation following a people’s upheaval, the unfortunate choices thus made set the stage for just another gradualist or business-as-usual mode of governance, calcified by Arroyo’s pronouncement: “I have no grandiose ambition of being great, I just want to do my work well. I don’t want magic. I just want to be 100 percent right – morally right.â€
GMA’s EXPLICIT promise was to restore moral authority in governance. She has shown her great resolve to fulfill that promise by swiftly paving the way for Erap’s arrest, an opportunity that somehow had eluded Cory as to Ninoy’s tormentors.
The ball at the plunder trial was actually on Erap’s court given the scope and weight of the evidence adduced during the impeachment hearings; that whether Erap would then be placed on house arrest, detained with special privileges appropriate to a former head of state, or allowed to exit via exile, the nation could have not gone wrong according GMA abundant discretion to exercise her presidential prerogative especially if weighed as a necessary precondition to the fulfillment of her IMPLICIT promise for social and economic reforms.
After People Power II and EDSA Tres the logical path for GMA would have been toward radical rather than gradualist reforms. True to her class interest, GMA has instead opted for incremental solution having thus eschewed any “grandiose ambition of being great.â€
During the early phase of GMA’s administration and certainly before the July 27 (2003) mutiny, there was the sense that one of GMA’s route to achieve fundamental restructuring was in terms of reforming the wretched state of the electoral process; that if a “failure†of an honest and peaceful election would be perceived again as too likely to occur in 2004 owing to the same official neglect to reform the process, it could trigger to test anew the breaking threshold of the silent middle, which already evinced its agitated state in People Power II; and that a gradualist approach to this acute malady might end up inadequate to fulfill the explicit promise of moral uprightness, the contention being: Should a conciliatory approach to Erap’s case (a plea of guilty, presidential pardon and then exile) be pursued thereby saving the government precious resources, a redirected or rather intense effort towards electoral reforms could prove in the long term to be more salutary than the clamor for retributive justice.
In my tally sheet, I have placed essential electoral reforms ahead of poverty alleviation as a precondition for transformation.
The “Garci tapes†debacle alone totally dashed the expectation. For, not only did Arroyo fail to deliver on both her explicit and implicit promises, she in point of fact callously prostituted the first; and thus exposed and rendered a lame duck, realistically Arroyo could not be expected to deliver on the second except by extending her reign beyond 2010, the present constitutional limit.
The pardon option I had advocated before is philosophically grounded upon the following conclusion in a piece I have already excerpted in the last thread here:
Justice like sovereignty is an abstraction. In reality, however, the scale is not always perfect either in weighing, for example, the legal equality of sovereign states or in balancing the precedent wrong with the present response in the pursuit of a just society.
What seems to matter most is that when we put into play certain abstract principles we hold dear, we take into account the common good of the present as much as the future. Juggling the Erap ball out is a safe and wise way to comply with that goal.
In Manolo’s plainer terms, I was then looking for “a historic verdict (requiring) a historic demonstration of presidential statesmanship†not used as a “tool†for personal political survival.
By now, Erap’s diehards should realize that Asiong Salonga is a myth. On the other hand, Arroyo and her handlers, instead of prophesying her lot by setting up a rather impalpable Erap precedent, would do well waking up too to the reality of an inevitable, maybe harsher, Marcosian finale.
manuelbuencamino on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:44 pm
Bencard,
Priorities, priorities. First things first.
Stopping ongoing plunder is more important than raising hell about plunder that cannot be committed by a person who is no position to do what he did all over again.
Joey De Venecia did not clear Gloria. He said he had no personal knowledge of her involvement. He testified only on those things he knew about and experienced personally like Back Off!
To repeat. First person account, no hearsay. That’s why he said he had no knowledge of gloria’s involvement.
However upon further questioning by senators and after being informed by the ZTE technical working group that he should also reveal his conversations with other personalities involved in the ZTE deal, Joey related what he heard from Ricky Razon and from the Speaker who recounted his shouting match with Gloria. Joey reiterated that he didn’t talk about these things when he first testified because they were hearsay.
He didn’t talk about Ricky Razon exclaiming ““Putangina kasi yung Abalos na yan. Sinabi pa niya kay Mike meron siyang 70 million dollars dito, hindi na nakalimutan ni Mike†because he knew lawyers like you would pounce on him immediately. Joey is not stupid. He is intelligent and, more importantly, he is credible. That’s why your Gloria is climbing walls. The public believes Joey over Mike Arroyo, Abalos, Mendoza, and Ricky Razon.
I have talked to Joey personally. He has no doubt in his mind about the involvement of the Arroyo couple in the deal but he can’t say so publicly because he was never saw or heard Gloria say do or say anything to incriminate herself. However, he says Romy Neri did and the NEDA minutes will show Gloria’s hand in the deal.
So I ask you again – if there’s nothing to hide, why hide anything?
Executive privilege is a claim being made by Gloria. She is under no obligation to invoke it. Why the secrecy?
Finally, Joey spoke about a murder plot against him. He said he was warned by retired Gen. Jaime Santos. The Speaker, his wife and their lawyer corroborate Joey’s story. The general denie it.
At the Senate Joey also mentioned an assassination plot against his father. The Speaker’s wife and the Speaker confirmed this plot on Korina Sanchez’ TV show.
Now why the cover-up, why the assassination ploys of Joey was only a drug crazed delusional sour graping accuser?
Erap cannot steal anymore. Let’s deal with active thieves.
manuelbuencamino on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:46 pm
Bencard,
Pardon the typos. I can’t find my reading glasses.
j_ag on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 1:59 pm
Wakin (Office of Toting “two tapes” Bunye)
The Equalizer on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:26 pm
“Erap cannot steal anymore. Let’s deal with active thieves.”
Manuel Buencamino:They say there can be no honor among thieves. They say that human greed is stronger than human loyalty, and that no promise is safe from the corruption of gold and power.
But even within the shadows, some order must be held. Here, knowledge is more powerful than the sharpest blade, and alliances are kept through a careful balance of lies. And though indeed there may be no honor among the thieves, there is respect amid distrust…
Ducks on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 2:56 pm
Devils, I couldnt agree more with your ideas. Just to add, on your “umbrella organization”: I believe we have a similar model applied in Naga City, it’s the internationally recognized Naga City People’s Council (NCPC) which is in turn a concrete manifestation of the multi-awarded People Empowerment law/ordinance of the Jesse Robredo-led LGU of Naga. I consulted with them (‘pro bono’, on Development Communication) when my cousin, Dave Bercasio, was the executive director in 2005.
In the private sector, as far as corporate foundations or corporate social responsibility arms are concerned, one emerging credible group is the League of Corporate Foundation (LCF) that has been synergizing all efforts of all its member-foundations to be able to deliver a deeper impact on society and also to promote best practices and principles. Annually, they stage the CSR EXPO. I had been privileged to interface with them when I headed a small corporate foundation in Naga. I also had the chance to do my internship under the Ayala foundation prior to that. Great groups! ALthough I think there’s still a lot of room for improvement.
There’s another one that I know of, the Philippine Council for NGO Certification,whose main function is “to certify non-profit organizations that meet established minimum criteria for financial management and accountability in the service to underprivileged Filipinos.”
Its objectives are the following, to wit:
1.To provide a mechanism of certification for NGOs which meet established minimum criteria for greater transparency and accountability.
2.To encourage private sector participation in social development through availment of incentives under the Comprehensive Tax Reform Program.
3.To simulate and integrate the efforts of the non-profit sector to elevate its standards of service delivery.
4.To provide a system for greater GO-NGO collaboration and complementation.
Presently, it is composed of 6 umbrella organizations of NGOs, namely:
1. The Association of Foundations (AF), membership: 135 foundations operating in cities and provinces nationwide;
2. the Caucus of Development NGO networks (CODE-NGO, a network of 14 national and regional NGO networks numbering among its membership about 3000 NGOs in all the regions of the country;
3. the LCF
4. the National Council of Social Development Foundations (NCSD), said to be one of the country’s oldest NGO networks, composed of about 100 NGOs engaged in development and basic services project, mostly benefiting children and youth.
5. the Philippine Business for Social Progress (PBSP) a social development foundation set up in 1970 and funded by 180 business corporations in the Philippines.
6. the Bishop Businessmen’s Conference for Human Dev’t, led by the bishops of the Catholic Church as well as business leaders in the country
Now what does a certification do for an NGO? Its website says:
1. Encourages local donations to NGOs, made more important by the present trend of dwindling resources for social development projects
2. Recognizes NGOs of “good standing” that funding donors may consider in their choice of organization to support
3. Provides opportunities for self-assessment and improvement
4. Provides valuable assistance for organizational strengthening
5. Promotes professionalism, transparency and accountability of the NGO community
These groups can provide a lot of help/assistance as to the funding concerns of NGOs, especially the start-ups.
There, mabalos!
Bokyo on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 3:03 pm
While it is true that granting pardon is a prerogative of a president under the constitution, what is irregular is that a compromise or a prior agreement might have been done to grant pardon. There is no way that the lawyers of erap will withdraw their MR without confirming this agreement.
manuelbuencamino on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 3:33 pm
Equalizer,
sorry hindi ko magets ang comment mo to me.
The Equalizer on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 3:58 pm
There is respect amid distrust now between the camps of the two great thieves.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 4:08 pm
ducks, that was a great list! very informative! btw, how do you “intern” for such organizations? o kelangan ba me kakilala ka sa loob? they’re not exactly advertising for it, you know.
The Equalizer on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 4:51 pm
devilAdv8:Oragon!write in Helium
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 5:51 pm
equalizer, i cannot get into Helium. their site’s currently in construction the last time i visited
Ducks on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 7:23 pm
Mabalos Devils. Well, I am not really sure with the other groups. Although I am pretty sure most of them welcome “interns” , especially students. Baka endi nag-aadvertise kasi they know its not that popular with students. In my batch, iilan lang kaming nag-intern sa mga NGOs. Karamihan sa mga media outfits, when in fact, development communication graduates are groomed and expected to use their know-how and skills for developmental endeavors.
But you are correct in my case because I was able to do my internship with Ayala Foundation due to my being an alumnus of the Ayala Young Leaders Congress, the cornerstone of the Ayala Corporation’s “Shaping Tomorrow’s Leaders” – a youth development program designed to contribute to the long-term solution of the leadership crisis that we have been facing here in our country.
And, if I may add Devils, AYLC, as the Ayala Group puts it, is “anchored on the company’s belief that quality education and value-based leadership formation go hand in hand to equip the Filipino youth for their present and future role in nation-building. Over time, AYLC hopes to contribute in the development of a powerful group of change agents and servant leaders from among these young Filipinos”.
So it’s something that will sit well with you Irmano I believe ’cause it’s definitely not a simple and pure doleout/handout-type of engagement which, in my humble opinion, has all the potentials to build a dependency or a “patron-beneficiary” relationship and mentality, which, in turn, can further decelerate the development of the target beneficiary/beneficiary groups. It’s more of a “social investment”, to be sustained by the commitment of the entire Group, from top management down, towards sustainable development and community involvement as opposed to pure and simply philanthropy which, in the long run, can not really strengthen the society. Here, the ubiquitous parable of giving fish and patiently teaching people how to fish comes into mind. But that’s another tale!
Ducks on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 8:17 pm
Speaking of tale, allow me to share a short story written by no less than “the” Neil Gaiman himself, in celebration of Halloween.
“It’s lonely where I live, an old house a long way from anywhere. That’s why I got a dog. He keeps me company.
Last night the moon was full, and it cast shadows. We took a short-cut through the woods, into the meadow beyond. I let him off-leash to run. He came back holding something.
“Drop it,” I ordered, and he did. I felt sick.
Somebody behind me said, “That’s mine. Don’t turn around.”
Then the shadow beside mine was gone, and my dog whimpered in the moonlight.”
Booo!:)
Have a happy one everyone! Goodnight! And be well…
Ducks on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 8:53 pm
And another tale, by John Langan —
“I’d just switched off the bedside light when I heard feet shuffling down the hall. My son had been doing this every night since we moved here; leaving his bed for ours. We thought it was a phase he’d grow out of.
He was early tonight. The bed shifted as he crawled over Ann, wriggled under the sheets. His breathing was heavy, hoarse. I wondered if he were coming down with something. He snuggled against me.
I woke hours later.
“Come in with Mommy and Daddy,” Ann said.
My son scrambled into the empty space between us.”
Happy Halloween again!:)
qwert on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 8:54 pm
“I took the big plunge (with my wife) and sponsored a child just this afternoon, imagine for only 5,000Php or so you can send a child to school for one year. We chose a 6 year old girl living in Misamis.” – ram
ram,
I’m glad you have decided to sponsor a 6 year old girl and send her to school for one year. Barring unseen circumstances, I’ll be in Manila 2nd week of November and thanks for offering me a ride but I’ve already made arrangements with my brother.
Bencard on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:13 pm
buencamino, as i said, ipagpatuloy mo ang paghahabi ng mga sarli mong kuro-kuro dahil karapatan mo yan. kung inaakala mong sapat na kung anong sinasabi ni joey, ikaw and bahala. but to draw a factual conclusion from them is something else.
btw, i thought we were debating your silence regarding erap’s pardon before it was granted, an issue which i raised when you commented about your “outrage” over it. im not saying na nagpapalusot ka. just give me something more plausible reason for your lack of zeal in opposing it at the right time.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:21 pm
Just want to clarify something to avoid maligning the school — MAAP is not a ‘para-military’ institution (mali kasi very antok na ako talaga); what I meant was it is run like a ’semi-military’ school.
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:23 pm
“Another school that’s totally funded through scholarship programmes (and license fees from merchant marine officers and seamen) is the Maritime Academy of Asia and the Pacific (MAAP)in Bataan. Tuition fees would run in millions (like in the PMA) but students who make it throught the tough screening and entrance exams don’t pay a cent for the 4 year course. When graduates pass the board exams, they are assured of employment right away with companies that fund the institution.” – mbw
mbw, my cousin just graduated from that school this year.
The Equalizer on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:32 pm
“This new atmosphere, it’s unbalancing everybody,” Puno also said. “Over time, they will get use to it.”
“Let’s move on,catch us if you can time again!”
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 10:33 pm
Institutions like this give us hope for the future…
ramrod on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:11 pm
So this is what it all boils down to. We are to choose between rejecting the current, traditional politics and flawed exercise of civil service or accepting corruption, patronage politics, wheeling and dealing, compromise, and turncoatism as the way things are and we cannot do anything about it. Its either accept it or face more disastrous consequences – a divided nation? We are to accept not less than the leaders of our “homeland,” the guardians of our posterity, as mere humans who err, no, less than than human, politicians, who are predisposed to lying, cheating, and stealing every now and then, no big deal, its a lesser evil compared to anarchy, anyway, these allegations can’t be proven in court anyway. There’s no smoking gun, no paper trail, no credible witnesses (if there are, they are quickly discredited) except perhaps of the glaring sight of our countrymen suffering in poverty in the midst of 7.5%GDP growth, after borrowing billions of dollars for development “kuno.” There’s so much money coming in, but nobody can figure out why the country is still like a sick man. Its a mystery, its magical, its a nightmare. Its like being robbed by a room mate, you know it was him, but you can’t prove it, so you have a choice of packing up or staying and suffer a fate you cannot change.
So Puno et al expect us to take things as they are, as its the way things are done in government. The Escuderos and Cayetanos, as well as other “promising” senators (I meant those who promised us a lot during elections) are also one with this? Where’s the “magbibigay ng puna” they were talking about earlier? Even the CBCP/Mike Velarde broke the “separation of church and state” rule to tell us that reconciliation is more important than the desire for accountability of our public officials. “Pagbigyan na lang natin sila para walang gulo” line of thinking?
These people really underestimate the Filipino, they still believe that we are of “mediocre” minds, that we cannot abide by standards, hence the need for compromise.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:48 pm
Ramrod,
Re mbw, my cousin just graduated from that school this year.
Is that so? Congratulations to him/her… Excellent! Is he/she sailing the oceans already?
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:50 pm
When I go to RP and I have time, I visit MAAP, the site and the students never fail to impress me.
Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 11:55 pm
Ramrod,
You are right to point out that Filipinos are not “mediocre” minds and are capable of abiding by standards — really a question of standards being set.
Our politicians are muddling the standards. They have the power to set the correct standards.
BrianB on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:46 am
“These groups can provide a lot of help/assistance as to the funding concerns of NGOs, especially the start-ups.”
Ah, if only McDonald’s is our government, the poor will be eating burgers in air-conditioned places. The Filipino dream.
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 8:04 am
And yet the best source of Charity is the Government. It has the power and authority to raise funds, the capabilities in dispersing them among the vast number of constituents, the expertise to know where it is most needed and it itself is bound not to abuse the trust of its donors, the Taxpayers.
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 8:26 am
from pdi:
the military-speak is slipping: not just somebody picked up from the street, eh?
rego on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 8:41 am
There’s no smoking gun, no paper trail, no credible witnesses (if there are, they are quickly discredited) except perhaps of the glaring sight of our countrymen suffering in poverty in the midst of 7.5%GDP growth, after borrowing billions of dollars for development “kuno.†There’s so much money coming in, but nobody can figure out why the country is still like a sick man. Its a mystery, its magical, its a nightmare.
———————————–
Pero ramrod, di ba nagbabayad dintayo ng utang?
Proud to be Tsinoy on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 9:04 am
Let fast forward na lang to people power 10!
rego on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 9:07 am
So Puno et al expect us to take things as they are, as its the way things are done in government. The Escuderos and Cayetanos, as well as other “promising†senators (I meant those who promised us a lot during elections) are also one with this? Where’s the “magbibigay ng puna†they were talking about earlier? Even the CBCP/Mike Velarde broke the “separation of church and state†rule to tell us that reconciliation is more important than the desire for accountability of our public officials. “Pagbigyan na lang natin sila para walang gulo†line of thinking?
—————————-
Pero kung iiaaply mo yung Covey Principles, these politicians can do whatever they want to do and the people has a choice wether it they would let these politician to rule over their lives…
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 10:02 am
outright disagree.
hvrds on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 10:05 am
The United States Supreme Court ruled that pornography should be left to communities to decide on what is and what is not pornography.
They said it succinctly that when you see it you will know that it is porno.
The same can be said of political pornography. It is societal relativism at it’s finest.
For only a few observers, Big Mike, GMA, the rest of the majority of political and business establishment are major producers, actors of political pornography. It has become a major business model historically due to our colonial history of pandering to the colonizers.
Pornography is nothing but prostitutes on display in action. Will all due apologies to sex workers.
Loyalties to the sovereign in the hope of material gain and benefits. The naked display of prostitution (porn) becomes the main business model. Unless economics and economic development create the sovereign civil society embodied in a sovereign constitution man will always be in a state of nature.
What happened to Neri Jr? In full view of the world he disrobed and said, I was offered money to bend over but Abalos is not my type. She said forget the offer but do as he says. Bend over…… Not meant to offend the gay community.
qwert on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 10:53 am
“Pero kung iiaaply mo yung Covey Principles, these politicians can do whatever they want to do and the people has a choice wether it they would let these politician to rule over their lives…” – rego
rego,
Sana nga mai-apply yung sina-suggest mong principles by Stephen Covey but the problem is that we don’t even have principled politics to begin with,what we have is transactional and oligarchic politics.
“Political expediency has long buried principled politics in this country” – Julkipli Wadi, political science and Islamic studies professor at the University of the Philippines
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 10:59 am
Just did some readings of the Past Scandals in our Political History and found out that there were a lot of political scandals in our past and one just recently.
Some would always ask? is it just a rumour is or there is truth to it? So many allegations of scandals going on in the Philippines Political arena, yet not many of them were brought to its proper resolution.
Way back in early 2000, The Globe and Mail (a major daily paper) asked the Government under the access of Information Act, why it paid half a million ($550,000) to an ad agency, Groupaction Marketing, for a report that can not be found and no one in the Government or in the business concerned can answer that question. In some quarters that one simple question would be dismissed as just rumour, but not in this case, it started the ball rolling and was later known as the biggest scandal in our political history, the “sponsorship program scandal”, and it was resolved and the people involved were justly punished..clik my handle if you want to find out how we tackle our own scandals and corruptions it could be of help..
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:18 am
“outright disagree”..Devil
to my “an expertise to know which is it most needed”
Well to some or most politician, who run the government it is most needed in their own pockets and bank accounts. But Devils, I am talking about the other kind of Politicians, and there are still a plenty of them around, even in the Philippines, just that a few drown them out..
qwert on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:40 am
“…it started the ball rolling and was later known as the biggest scandal in our political history, the “sponsorship program scandalâ€, and it was resolved and the people involved were justly punished.” -vic
vic,
I wonder if the Prime Minister is directly involved in the scandal, would you know?
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:53 am
Yes, I agree, if the electorate were all “proactive” and decide not to be victimized all the time but are made aware that we have the power to chart our own destiny as a people, choose an alternative future, but this takes a massive “enlightening” program. The study of Covey principles and their application involved thousands of corporate funds just to train managers, supervisors, etc. Come to think of it, the church, the schools, even the government HRD (or something similar) are ideal avenues for cascading these principles, but would the leadership allow this? What could the “powers that be” gain from an enlightened and proactive electorate? I believe they would prefer maintaining a “gullible” one, its more expedient to “buy votes.”
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:56 am
Yun na nga ang masaklap, nagbabayad tayo ng utang tapos hindi natin nakikita kung saan nagamit ang pera…
rego on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:59 am
Sana nga mai-apply yung sina-suggest mong principles by Stephen Covey but the problem is that we don’t even have principled politics to begin with,what we have is transactional and oligarchic politics.
———————————————-
qwert,
I believe covey habits is very much aplicable. Habit one, Be Proactive will be very useful if we really take time to apply it.
why should we allow transactional and oligarchic poltics to rule our lives?
rego on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:05 pm
From the start that I joined this blog I said;
I believe the greatness and the progress of our country will not be defined by what Gloria or our leaders did or did not do. But rather it will be defined by how the people CHOOSE to react to Gloria or the other leaders.
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:15 pm
gwert,
According to the final report of Justice Gomery Inquiry, PM of the day Chretien was cited for failure to keep a good watch during his tenure but was not implicated for having direct knowledge of his underlings. PM Paul Martin was not in any way implicated.
There were few elected officials who were sanctioned, but not charged criminally. But three major players were charged and convicted and now being sued by the Federal government to get back all the “stolen monies”. The police had an extensive parallel investigations, but all testimonies during the inquiries, were not allowed to be used for criminal prosecutions and some were held in private so as not to compromise the inquiry and its witnesses. Most judicial inquiries are of the blameless type so at to solicit facts or “truth” from witnesses and participants and its purpose mainly is to find the defects and thereby can find proper solutions to the defects. It works quite well, but just very expensive. Councils for all parties of interest are provided and all experts in the fields such as forensic personnel, auditors, etc are also hired at the inquiries’ expense and it takes a year or two to wrap up…
All criminal investigations are undertaken by the Police independently(RCMP for Federal Matters and Provincial police or City for Locals and yet RCMP has the authority and power over all criminal investigations if it feels local police forces are not capable).
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:22 pm
TROUBLE IN THE PALACE!
Target ni Tulfo
Bandera
Thursday, October 25, 2007
Signs of implosion? Loss of morale? If this goes on, the defenders themselves will be at each other’s throats. All the B&W Movement and other cause-oriented groups need to do is keep up the pressure. It has the effect of sustained suppressing fire, the defenders have to keep their heads down most of the time, and keep them in a defensive mode, very terrifying place to be, they will make mistake after mistake…
The Equalizer on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:29 pm
“I want to say this to our people. I made my mistakes, but in all of my years of public life, I have never profited, never profited from public service. I have earned every cent. And in all of my years of public life, I have never obstructed justice. And I think, too, that I can say that in my years of public life, that I welcome this kind of examination because people have got to know whether or not their President’s a crook. Well, I’m not a crook. I’ve earned everything I’ve got.â€
Guess which President said this!
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:30 pm
The ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE! You know, I have admired these people eversince I was a little boy. I had a classmate in grade two who gave me his hard bound compilation of comic books (RCMP), he was my first best friend but his family went back to Canada two years after. I remember his name was David Prather…
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:32 pm
equalizer,
Hindi ba yan din sinabi n Erap?
The Equalizer on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:34 pm
ramrod:Lol
Hindi kaya ni Erap ang malalim na English!
Richard M.Nixon(before he resigned)
Ganyan ang din pattern sa US of A.Deny,deny,deny and then buking…
cvj on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:39 pm
Me too! My older brother had a large collection of comicbooks, mostly about superheroes, but the only ones that i read were the ones about the RCMP and the American Civil war.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:40 pm
equalizer,
Nag English din si Erap that night, something like “I know I made mistakes in my life…”
Nixon said that, strange, the similarities are uncanny…
The Equalizer on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:47 pm
I have been reading about Richard M.Nixon.
I see so many similarities with GMA.
He was impeached for:
a)obstruction of justice
b)abuse of power
c)contempt of Congress.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 12:50 pm
rego, I somewhat agree. but u have to concede that to an extent, Gloria and our politicians will have a lot of power defining that progress – or in some cases, regress.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:04 pm
I agree, the people have to be proactive. Unfortunately, we have not yet reached that level yet. If you study the Filipino psyche, propaganda is more effective, using GC Homan’s Informal Groups Theory is more applicable (break the electorate down into small subgroups put in a persuasive leader-type and you have them by the balls), the media and word-of-mouth to a significant extent, can still dictate the “choice” of most people. Only a handful are capable of “critical thinking” and unless we clone somebody like devils and replace 80% of the voting public with these clones, the political scenario will never change. But of course if we did, we’d have have too much politicians’ blood spilled all over the place (lol). But I’m hopeful though that increased access to “quality education” is a big factor to this “empowered” people you are referring to.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:16 pm
cvj, vic,
How did the RCMP maintain their reputation all these years? Its making them look like the exception rather than the norm, sometimes its funny, I remember a movie (comedy) starring Brendan Fraser once…
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:17 pm
cjv and ramrod,
The RCMP had a few misadventures, one just recently, when it was involved in the suplying of intellegence to the U.S. Authorities resulting of a Canadian citizen stopping over the U.S. rendered to Syria on suspicion that he belong to some terrorist org., the case of Maher Arar, which cost the RCMP commissioner his Job, embarrased the Government and resulted in another Inquiry which absolved Mr. Arar of all suspicion and a compensation for his sufferings for $12 millions. Yet just Recently, U.S. Secretary of State Rice representing the U.S. Government although admitting their part of the mistake, yet still can not find the courage to apologize to Mr. Arar, like our PM did..maybe someday and take him off the no fly list..
cvj on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:18 pm
As it is formulated i disagree. Everyone is capable of critical thinking. It’s only that we have different blind spots depending on our patterns of thought. Some are blind to Erap’s weaknesses. Others are blind to GMA’s.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:20 pm
equalizer,
I agree with the first two, but i disagree with the 3rd -contempt of congress, “spoiling congress” maybe, or “flooding congressmen with cash.” I hope they drown in it so it becomes a crime…lol
cvj on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:25 pm
Vic, Ramrod, what i like about the RCMP is that they are as tough as the American Cowboys but without the bravado. Which reminds me, i also read that non-fiction comicbook about the American West – Bat Masterson, Wyatt Earp, Donner party etc.
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:31 pm
ramrod,
The RCMP started as a proud tradition of Police mounted on the horseback, (no patrol cars then) and in the old days pledge their loyalty to the Crown and to the crown only..Today they still maintain that tradition by security of tenure, very generous compensation, and the way the recruitment process is done, no amigo system, no political intervention and only the qualified are privileged to join the Force. And the oversight, since the are the country’s pride, they are being closely watched by the Media, the Parliament and the Public.
Any man or woman who don the “Red Serge” will carry that tradition…
qwert on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:32 pm
“According to the final report of Justice Gomery Inquiry, PM of the day Chretien was cited for failure to keep a good watch during his tenure but was not implicated for having direct knowledge of his underlings. PM Paul Martin was not in any way implicated.”- vic
vic,
There are two issues here that is relevant in our present political problem. First, the failure to keep a good watch during Chretien’s tenure (or any head of state for that matter) and second, “having a direct knowledge of his underlings”. The reason why I wanted GMA to resign or be impeached is primarily because of her nonfeasance ( the first abovementioned issue)and not necessarily her malfeasance, as some would maintain that there is no evidence to that effect. The malfeasance of GMA, if ever there is and there was, should be determined by the proper courts but her nonfeasance is so obvious that even foreign observers agree to it, what with the report of United Nations Special Rapporteur Philip Alston. I would surmise that PM Chretien was already out of office when this citation was given, but GMA has three more years (barring unseen circumstances)left in her term. Three more years of nonfeasance, I hope not.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:44 pm
cvj,
Okay, I’ll go with you on “everyone is capable of critical thinking” I’ll rephrase it to “only a handful will actually utilize critical thinking.” Its like “common sense” its not actually common to all. To a certain extent “critical thinking” is a skill that not even all schools teach as most have become instruments of mass indoctrination of conformity. Its a lot easier to follow the bandwagon than to go against the tide. This is where Puno and the like are very good at, exploiting this weakness or blind spot. This is where the local government and SK mechanism become very important to the government. Take 10 ordinary people from the street, give them all equal length sticks (except 1), isolate 1, while instructing the other 9 to say all the sticks are of the same length. Chances are the 1 (isolated) will follow what the other 9 are saying. Some people have been good money mastering the application of this theory in the the Philippine setting and it has never grown old, its still being done as we blog…
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:44 pm
ay_naku on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:44 pm
Totally agree. Even now, many members of the upper and middle class (I assume mostly highly-educated) still take a “see no evil, hear no evil” approach to GMA. Or when Erap steals from public funds, then he is a plunderer who deserves to be punished by the full force of the law, but when GMA lies, cheats, and steals, then blame the political culture.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:48 pm
you can say that again. most teachers here worship rote memorization. and it is the lowest form of learning.
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:57 pm
gwert,
The sponsorship program frauds was so cleverly done by a network of Quebec Liberals and some of the money went back to the party coffers. Even then Finance Minister Paul Martin who is being Chretien most important member of cabinet had no knowledge of what was going on. There were no direct involvement of higher ups officials and there was not any suspicion until the Globe and Mail ask for the information under the Access of Information Act.
But it was then PM Chretien who called on the Auditor General to find more of the allegations and it was inherited by Paul Martin who replaced Chretien after ll years, one of the longest tenure for PM.
Paul Martin re-assure the public that if the inquiry found out evidence that he knew of the fraud, he will resign, but no need to, because his government was defeated on the election called after losing the confidence due to that scandal.
The difference between the two, is the Administration of President Arroyo, is not doing anything to clear or resolve most of the scandals, on the contrary She is doing all to block all attempts to “dig deep” whether they are just malicious rumours or just the tip of the iceberg. And most just fade without the public knowing if is there is the truth to all the allegations.
Like a said one simple question by an inquiring paper and the iceberg surfaced and sank the government of the Liberals..
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 1:59 pm
cvj,
I have been facinated by “group dynamics” eversince I was tasked to lead people, it is very important to appreciate it so it would be easier to lead/manage well, but it can also be used to manipulate people and these people would even “thank you” if you if its done right.
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=947612
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0038-0431(195803)21%3A1%3C30%3ACNIIG%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q
http://sgr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/citation/11/4/359
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:01 pm
cvj,
I posted several links to GC Homans theory and application in society and industry but its under moderation.
I have been facinated by “group dynamics†eversince I was tasked to lead people, it is very important to appreciate it so it would be easier to lead/manage well, but it can also be used to manipulate people and these people would even “thank you†if its done right.
qwert on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:06 pm
“Like a said one simple question by an inquiring paper and the iceberg surfaced and sank the government of the Liberals..”- vic
I wonder,How many simple questions should be asked for the iceberg to surfaced and sink the Arroyo government?
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:08 pm
vic,
From what I gather from your comments, successful countries like Canada had their share of bad governance but were able to handle it well, while the Philippines is still struggling with it. Is this because the Philippines is still an immature democracy and there is a possibility that all these experiences will be part of our learning process? If so, there is hope in the Philippines after all.
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:11 pm
“I wonder,How many simple questions should be asked for the iceberg to surfaced and sink the Arroyo government?”
gwert, your guees is just as good as most, except for Arroyo’s die hards..None for her ship is Anchored in the desert sand loaded with gold and silver and ready to dole them out for any attempt even by the pirates of the Carribean who may gone lost and ended up in the desert..
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:18 pm
“The RCMP started as a proud tradition of Police mounted on the horseback, (no patrol cars then) and in the old days pledge their loyalty to the Crown and to the crown only..Today they still maintain that tradition by security of tenure, very generous compensation, and the way the recruitment process is done, no amigo system, no political intervention and only the qualified are privileged to join the Force.” – vic
Vic, you know this is very similar to the PMA started by Manuel L. Quezon (Closer than Brothers, Al Mcoy), but along the way it got polluted.
vic on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:18 pm
ramrod, there are always possibilities. just one good leader with courage and convictions, just as the institutions were already in place, enough laws that just need enforcement and everything will just follow including the improvement in economy and even the masses realizing that they too are needed in the overall scheme of things…
It’s part two in the morning here and I need some coffee to keep awake. going out for a walk to Tim Hortons and it is already hitting freezing brrrhh..
ay_naku on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:29 pm
From MLQ’s PDI column: “To those who were at Edsa Dos, but who wouldn’t budge in 2005 and 2006, and who are suddenly filled with outrage over Ms Arroyo pardoning Estrada, what did you expect? You made this not only possible, but inevitable. Edsa Dos was not betrayed by this pardon, it was betrayed when the President tried to steal the 2004 election, when she refused to be held accountable by means of the impeachment process, and when she very nearly imposed martial law in 2006 but was foiled by Nonong Cruz. I am glad you now see what others saw—years ago.”
Well said, MLQ.
I’m surprised that the prosecutors expressed shock over the pardon and dismayed that there “there was no transparency.” Didn’t they see it coming? As MLQ noted, GMA was just being true to form. No transparency? There hasn’t been transparency in the GMA administration for years, much less accountability. Have they been sleeping all these years?
cvj on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:44 pm
Ramrod, i take your point that people are susceptible to thought manipulation and i do believe that happens to a wide extent which is why Puno’s services are in demand. what i disagree with, and this is in line with ay_naku’s observation, is that often the upper and middle classes often think that their education renders them less vulnerable to such manipulation.
That false sense of relative immunity is the foundation of a lot of the elite-vanguard approaches to governance and to me, that’s a very weak foundation. As i commented before that i believe that the proportion of gullible:critical thinkers is constant across socio-economic classes. The only difference is in our areas of vulnerability. Our experience with Erap/Gloria is proof of that. That’s why genuine democratic deliberation, where we call out each other’s blindspots is a necessity.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 2:53 pm
cvj,
I agree, the elite-vanguard is not immune to manipulation, you cater to their weakness, if you can’t find one, use their strength – pride, wealth, power, anything that makes them tick. Even leaders like generals can be manipulated and they have been studying and making a living of making others do their bidding. If someone is successful in creating a blind spot for this this elite or persuade them to have one (subtle threats of loss of the pride, wealth, power, etc.) its actually simple, of course I emphasize “subtlety” so as not to arouse hostility in the initial stages.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 3:07 pm
Lets see how Puno will react to counterspin…
ay_naku on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 3:12 pm
Just wanna share a very good piece from Sylvia Mayuga, published in inquirer.net’s Viewpoints section:
opinion.inquirer.net/viewpoints/columns/view_article.php?article_id=97199
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 3:15 pm
cvj on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 3:23 pm
Ramrod, regarding your suggestion (at 3:15), Uniffors’ blog is currently doing a good job at that.
cvj on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 3:30 pm
http://www.uniffors.com
qwert on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 3:32 pm
“you can say that again. most teachers here worship rote memorization. and it is the lowest form of learning.”-devils
“Everyone is capable of critical thinking” – cvj
“To a certain extent “critical thinking†is a skill that not even all schools teach as most have become instruments of mass indoctrination of conformity”-ram
I agree with all your observations but the stark reality we have to admit is the fact that majority of our people are deprived of “critical thinking”.
Let me illustrate,since I’m referring to the majority,then I will use the public school as our laboratory. The “rote memorization is the lowest form of learning” but it is the most convenient (not that I condone and encourage it)style of teaching.
If you are a teacher and you handle an average of seven subjects per advisory class compose of 60 to 70 students(elementary teacher) and six to seven classes per subject and relatively the same number of students(high school) and every class is given an average of 45 minutes because of the shifting of schedules to accomodate other students,it is impossible for you to find out how your students think (70 of them if your teaching in elemenaty and 420 if your a high school teacher) much less to encourage them to be “critical thinkers”.
For example, in teaching history,the teacher does not have the luxury of time and materials of having his/her students analyze, the hows and whys of a certain historical event,the flaws,weaknesses,evils,strong points of a certain culture and society etc…
…the teacher will just have someone to copy the book verbatim on the board or distribute a photocopied material and give the exams based from a rote method of learning and besides it will take one whole day(maybe more) to checked the exams of 420 (7×60)students if it is an essay exam which is the best way to find out what is in the mind of the student,not like the objective type of exams, you can even have someone (students from other classes)checked the papers for you, you just give them the key to the answers.
This is one of the reasons why we do not have on the whole a “thinking” electorate, not because they are not capable of critical thinking but because they were and are deprived of “critical thinking”.
The Ca t on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 6:44 pm
Isn’t it merely the same old awkward generation gap where old folks are convinced that the subsequent ones are terrifically stupid and dumb?
Despite the talk about the educational system meltdown, aren’t the old folks here surprised that the revolutionized media aka blogging are monopolized by the youth and initiated by the youth. Old columnists still use their old rickety typewriters and have them processed by the “youth” of today. Commenters find difficulty tweaking their comments to make them readers-friendly. Young people can easily learn the technology without having to wait for a techie, they merely go to website ehow to. Maybe their apathy is due to their wide knowlege about the world because of accessibility to data in the internet. They can no longer be influenced by the teach-ins and one-sided opinion makers. They feel that they have to cope with the fast pace of the time.
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 8:41 pm
“Isn’t it merely the same old awkward generation gap where old folks are convinced that the subsequent ones are terrifically stupid and dumb?” – the cat
The cat,
It is no longer a matter of generation gap but access to quality education. The schools with the biggest population of students here are the public schools, this was what qwert was talking about. Its not being stupid or dumb but inability to utilize “critical thinking.” There are many supposedly smart people who can function very well in society but are susceptible to manipulation because of this deficiency. Case in point is the difference between the standard of private schools and public schools in terms of “achievement” tests or the measure of what students learned from grades 1 to 6. Public schools, yes even in Makati consider a rating of 69% as very good already, in fact the highest nationwide among public schools but this is not an acceptable rating for private schools. If you look at the lessons of grade 6 public school pupils in math right now they are still studying “fractions” while the grade 6 private schools are already studying linear equations with one unknown. Classes in the public schools are half day as other classes need to use the classrooms in the afternoon.
The internet or access to cybercafes does not necessarily mean smarter kids. If you are at least familiar with the situation with students and cybercafes right now, the students are flunking school because they would rather cut classes and play counter strike, or Tantra, or Ragnarok, and definitely not blogging. Chatting maybe, Friendster, but the kids involved in serious blogging is a minority, again limited to the private schools.
The electorate is the problem not the students, but the way the students (majority) are being deprived of “critical thinking” skills the greater are their chances of growing into voters who can easily be manipulated. Not by teach ins or one sided opinion makers but by media, TV, print, and radio, add an organized local government political mechanism of governors, mayors, barangay captains, barangay tanods, etc., as the Filipino are broken down into small groups. No student ever feels having to cope with a fast pace of time, they’re kids, they want to enjoy life as much as they can (except working students maybe).
Ponder on this and ask yourself why is the current administration focused on other issues (cyber educ, ZTE broadband, etc.) and while you’re at it,take a long good look at the Philippine public school system…
ramrod on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 8:57 pm
cvj,
I checked out the uniffors web site, the pictures are funny but quite harmless, I’m talking about “hard core stuff” with “SHOCK AND AWE” value. Ones that become news on tv and international media, like the Cory Aquino “slut” thing etc., (even that was mild).
manuelbuencamino on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:32 pm
Bencard,
Ilang beses ko ba kailangan ulitin First things first! abf razon ko.
The Ca t on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 1:02 am
just because people do not want to subscribe to your political opinions, they are dumb?
Sheesh. May be it’s the other way around. These young people
can clearly observe that there’s no use in partisan politics where every move of the “opposition” or the party that is not in your list should be backed up by people power.
Waste of time.
Sheesh again.
The Ca t on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 1:14 am
Now tell me why the US are giving green cards to our professional health care givers when US can easily produce the skilled workers with their ladderized curricular program for this type of profession.
Why are some European countries planning to issue blue cards to lure the professionals from Asia particularly the engineers and computer experts. Can’t they produce their own graduates ?
Why is it that our engineers are in demand in Singapore?
Bencard on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 1:58 am
buencamino, medyo malabo yata ang “razon”mo, pare. di bale na lang, sigue lusot ka na.
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 2:03 am
mlq3 on getting clearer.
Every crisis is an opportunity. What doesn’t kill Gloria, made Gloria stronger. Estrada’s pardon decimated opposition forces. Impeachment has not been killed but overtime it is getting weaker, and weaker, and weaker – reverse energizer. Resumption of charter change is what Gloria had been advocating from the beginning will add to her strength. Oil reaching $100 per barrel is a world issue (not only Phil government) that Gloria can take to her advantage by giving short term relief. Filling up vacancies is good for those who need to be promoted.
Gloria as seasoned in trench warfare knew well the terrain and her wars. She has the upper hand and dictates the direction of the battle.
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 2:09 am
People power equated to critical thinking?
Huh?
It doesn’t get us anywhere. It has polarized the Philippines.
cvj on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 2:38 am
Doubly trite.
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 2:47 am
“Doubly trite.”
And so is people power…. it has no stings anymore. Sad, don’t you think?
triolosbogus on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 9:17 am
“Gloria as seasoned in trench warfare knew well the terrain and her wars. She has the upper hand and dictates the direction of the battle”.
GMA has been in power going into her 8the year including the time served after Estrada was ousted and still 3 mores to go..There’s no reason to doubt she has not used all the tricks in the book of “survival” but soon she’ll run of those tricks, as sure as Marcos did for 14 years after declaring Martial Law, Estrada, too confident as he was didn’g last any longer, but that too because he was too confident the the Constitutional process would not be co-opted by extra-constitutional means..And I believe that Gloria with all the confidence and bravados (or bravadas) will soon meet the same fate..but then again, she doesn’t much to worry about, take a look at Marcos and his family, still in power as free as birds to enjoy the loot, so is Estrada and family..so why worry..got money, make the deals… everything is transactional..
cvj on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 9:37 am
What is sad is the apathy that came after. People Power deposed a corrupt president. Apathy has protected the current occupant of Malacanang.
Mike on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 1:40 pm
Of all the hypocritical…
HEY, BENCARD!! Instead of criticizing us for not protesting the pardon enough, why don’t you lay the blame squarely at the feet of the person who pardoned Erap in the first place??? All this time you’ve been pooh-pooing us for protesting GMA, and now when she does something that offends your peculiar sense of justice, you say we make YOU sick??? F*ck you and the horse you rode in on, Bencard!! You’re just bitching because now GMA has screwed you just like she has the rest of the country!
But Bencard, when you’re sick and tired of eating her sh*t, I will be happy to welcome you to the human race.
ramrod on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 1:59 pm
the cat,
As usual you are operating in a parrallel dimension. Critical thinking is not a monopoly of the “intelligent” alone. So many people can be smart but are easily duped, a clever manipulator only has to look for the weakness or even strengths.
It doesn’t have anything to do with care givers given green cards in the US or engineers in Singapore or Europe. But enough of that OFW worship crap. I’m an OFW myself but after looking at the overall impact of OFW remittance dependence, yes, even BPOs here, its not a viable basis for our economy in the long term. Its more of a “temporary relief” solution. What the country needs is to evolve from being an “assembly area” of components to a “genuine manufacturer” of real products most especially in technology. I don’t know what GMA or her administration was focused on, but it sure wasn’t in this direction. Critical thinking is looking beyond the obvious, ask questions, don’t believe you know everything, the more you learn, the more you will discover that there is much to learn…
The Ca t on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 4:03 pm
Get real ramrod,
If you think that we can manufacture these electronic components that top our exports, I can say that you are clueless how this business work.
With the assembly business, there is already market.Just think if we would start our own. We would do the manufacturing and marketing at the same time?
Most of these assembly businesses in any part of the world is a kind of backward integration marketing strategy.
That is spelled CAPTIVE MARKET.
Philippines trying to start on its own?
Nababaliw ka ba?
Even SIngapore and China are assemblers of these electronic components.
And do you know how the parent companies keep their trade secrets?
Yeah, you are an OFW an you must have witnessed the ingenuity of Filipinos regardless of the universities where they graduated from. And that’s what I am about being critical thinker and not critical thinking focused in politics.
So you’re a critical thinker huh because you think that BPO and OFW phenomenon is temporary.
But these things have existed even before Marcos, GMA, Cory’s administrations. Only they have different labels.
The first batch of medical doctors came to the US before martial law. I met the aunt of my friend in New Jersey.
That was what we called BRAIN DRAIN. The manongs in the USA were the first OFWs before World War 2. They worked in plantation. A relative of mine had been to the Middle East since early 70’s.
That was BRAWN DRAIN.
It was the remittances of these people whom we do not call OFWS then which really keep us afloat since the MArcoses were sending dollars abroad and the rich people hoard also their dollars and the corrupt politicians also salted their dollars abroad.
Even the exporters were guilty of technical smuggling that is directing their payments of the clients in their dollar accounts in overseas bank.
Now tell me, did you ever think about this or you are just so focused to a personality and that you just believe in whatever is printed?
Is that what is critical thinking for you ?
ramrod on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 4:33 pm
the cat,
If you are involved in actual business you will understand what I’m talking about. Look at Korea, Taiwan, Japan, you don’t have to look so far. How did they achieve their industrial status? Not by going abroad and becoming muchachos and muchachas (like I am) to foreigners but by sheer political will and focused development. I do not come from Ateneo or La Salle, in fact I graduated from an unknown school in Mactan, Cebu, so small you wouldn’t know it. How I ever came to work for a global giant, I don’t know, I only knew I needed the money and will learn anything, any skill, travel anywhere, accomplish any objective given to me because I need the money. What gets me is why I have to go to the far ends of the globe just so I can give my family a good future? Why do I have to be away from those I love just so we can have a life? Even if I could possibly go up further the corporate ladder I will still be a “glorified utusan” of my foreign master call it Contry Manager or Sales Director or Managing Director.
My travels and dealings with different markets only made me realize that what you say is “captive market” is a choice rather than fate. We have become an assembler because we chose to, our leaders negotiated that type of arrangement, and any “good idea” was never supported enough, look at “Filipino inventors” and how they have to sell their patents abroad. Now their inventions are manufactured elsewhere.
Its not about personalities (GMA or whoever) per se, its a failure of leadership, a weakness of political will, an acceptance of mediocrity that we will always exist to serve a foreign master. Being real does not necessarily mean accepting your present fate, it is knowing you can and knowing how to determine your destiny.
ramrod on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 4:45 pm
the cat,
Btw, for the recorde I did not say you are not doing critical thinking, the fact that you consistently put your two cents in this blog is proof of that. Also, I did not say that I have a monopoly of critical thinking, if ever, I’m a late bloomer in this politically speaking. I will admit to you that I voted for Marcos, Aquino, Ramos, and Arroyo, without batting an eyelash. All I used as basis were their platforms, I never bothered to take closer look, I wasn’t a political critical thinker, I’m only good at what I do and that is make money for my company.
It would have been different if I was educated differently, to understand, to ask questions first, to look at the consequences, instead of just following orders…
bugsy on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 5:18 pm
It’s not enough to make time for your children. There are certain stages in their lives when you have to give them the time when they want it. You can’t run your family like a company. It doesn’t work.
bugsy on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 5:20 pm
Having kids has been a fantastic thing for me. It’s meant that I’m a little more balanced. In my twenties I worked massively, hardly took vacation at all. Now, I, with the help of my wife, I’m always making sure I’ve got a good balance of how I spend my time.
qwert on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 5:48 pm
“Isn’t it merely the same old awkward generation gap where old folks are convinced that the subsequent ones are terrifically stupid and dumb?” – The Cat
The Cat,
I really don’t understand your abovementioned statement, maybe it’s just me. I am going to add to what I have posted, hoping that it might clarify the point I am driving at.
Our country lacks the adequate infrastructure to deliver basic social services that makes techno-peasants of many Filipinos. Last year, the absence of electricity gripped about 20 percent of over 40,000 barangays in the country based on data from the National Electrification Administration. This literally put people in these barangays in the dark, out of reach by digital technology.
The school system, too, stands in the way of technology absorption. More than 60 towns in the country don’t even have a high school and over 42,000 barangays can’t offer the required six years of elementary education, Asian Development Bank data show. This is bad news for many young Filipino students who turn to schools for a chance to use a personal computer and to access the Internet.
Now, I am not blaming GMA alone for this problem.This problem is much older than her term as President and I don’t expect GMA or any President for that matter to completely solve this problem overnight. I believe this problem will continue to persist even beyond GMA.
On the other hand, you can’t blame me (I hope)for expecting too much from GMA, she’s smart,intelligent,well educated, a “critical thinker” and most of all she’s the President, to reasonably alleviate the plight of our students/youth in the countryside.
I hope your in good stead and in good health as you read my response.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 11:32 pm
Cat,
Just to clarify… Don’t know if you are knowledgeable in hi-tech transfer or purchase to be able to say without batting an eyelash that “Even SIngapore and China are assemblers of these electronic components.”
True, these two nations have assembler companies for electronic components but in the absolute, they now possess their own technlogies to be able to assemble and sell products of their own and compete with the West.
So true is this for Singapore that Singapore now sells hi-tech which are results of technology that they purchased from the West.
For RP to be able to eventually sell its own hi-tech products or to sell its own hi-tech is to purchase technology. Pinas cannot continuously beg for technology transfer without shelling some money. Technology is there but RP has got to invest money and not saliva.
Really, to compete with its neigbours, there is no solution around it but to purchase technology.
Obviously, this is not at all possible if our own local would be investors keep on with capital flight.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 12:01 am
Wonder when the last time RP invested in high tech, i.e., own the high tech from which to produce and assemble components to sell abroad?
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 12:04 am
By “own high tech”, I meant technology, eg., electronics not just for making Timex watches.
The Ca t on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 3:04 am
What technology did they purchase?
As far as manufacturing concerned, Singapore produces 10 per cent of the supply of wafer.
Timex does not necessarily produce watches. It is a semicon.
Ask any semicon expert what a wafer is, then you will understand that Singapore is more on this backward integration strategy of marketing and production.
I was once a consultant of a VP of a semicon.
The Ca t on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 3:29 am
If you’ve been reading other than opinions and newspapers, you will find out that many Japanese worked in the US sugar plantation together with the Filipino manongs before World War 2.
They were so lonely that they had “picture brides” whereby they paid the parents of young Japanese women who would like to go to America to become their companions.
In fact many of these Japanese who migrated to the US were interned in camps during World War 2 for which the US apologized and paid reparation in 1980.
This was the equivalent of the tobacco brides of the British migrant farmers to the US where they paid the families of the brides with tobaccos.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 3:35 am
Cat “What technology did they purchase?”
I see you don’t know. For starters, Singapore purchased defence technology to produce fire control systems for starters…
Military radio technology next and lots of components to produce defence equipment locally.
Obviously, they went about doing these things not by purchasing the entire or complete technologies necessary to produce fire control systems right away or to start is with… they went about it by purchasing components first and then offering Singapore as base for the production of some of the components and bought into the company set up for the purpose, hence Singapore (and Malaysia too) now own high tech components required for a complete system and have started to produce this same high-tech equipment for export.
Also Singpore (and Malaysia) purchased high tech maintenance know-how, refurbishment capability know how, upgrade technologies that they now use to attract various nation end users in the region and elsewhere…
What I meant by purchasing high-tech… come in several forms as mentionned above.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 3:36 am
Cat, my job involved JVs and technology transfer.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 5:15 am
Ramrod,
Just a thought… or a rejoinder:
“Even if I could possibly go up further the corporate ladder I will still be a “glorified utusan†of my foreign master call it Contry Manager or Sales Director or Managing Director.”
I believe if you really think about it, even the non-Pinoy foreigners that these companies hire to do a job are also glorified “utusan” in a sense. So, it’s not really something so bad.
I was living in France working for an international conglomerate but had to scour the world for business for my company just like my French or British colleagues (the travelling and the lack of time with family almost killed me) so in a way, your serving a foreign entity to work as their sales manager, country manager or whatever is no different from what your foreign colleagues do as glorified utusans.
In a way again, we cannot compare being the glorified utusans to these foreign companies to the plight of OFWs who absolutely cannot get the right jobs so they can support their families or even simply for their families to survive. They are forced to leave spouse and child behind for years ending even at the risk of family explosion, all by gambling in the hope of of providing for a brighter future for their children.
ramrod on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 8:56 am
mbw,
You’re right. Its not so bad. Its just that I may have to leave the Philippines again soon and after spending sometime with my kid its not that easy. But we have to do what we have to do, we chose this kind of life, no dreamt about it even…
ramrod on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 9:07 am
the cat,
I actually traveled to these places. My point is they have graduated from this OFW stage of plantation workers, and have become industrially independent. So far I’ve been to Texas Instruments here, Intel, Timex , and even Lexmark (my clients) all serving global markets but if you really talk to the engineers they are just there for “assembly work” not the 5 year course they studied for. There is no “technology transfer.”
Of course some of us have excelled as OFWs (Filipinos always do) but wouldn’t you agree that access to quality education and industrial development making us another global player. When it comes to marketing the product we have several competent people who have been working for other countries to sell, develop the markets, strategise, etc. and are very good at it.
The Ca t on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 10:48 am
Precisely, they are just producing components. When I talk about technology transfer and joint ventures, it includes the R& D with a support from educational institutions. It is more of businesses for VCs which would like to invest in new products or technologies.
Without the R & D, the technology transfer would have been obsolete or upgraded in a matter of time just like patent’s useful life is only 17 years even though it is esxtened to 20 years in 1995, still the product especially technology is subject to rapid obsolescence. One of the downsides of getting into partnership or joint venture with MNCs is that the technology transferred may be already on the sunset stage.
What I know about technology transfer that Singapore is working on with Europe is more on biomedical.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 11:24 am
Cat,
When European companies finally sell components for eventual production via partnership with companies in situ, i.e., Singapore, one of the terms of the JV is for a joint R&D without which the European company will not sell the components that form part of the equipment.
The JV’s production part will have that R&D component — a European company will not want its basic technology that it wants to eventually produce with the local partner and sell “messed” up at all hence the R&D component.
Whether the technology involved is in upgrading capability say of C130s or other helicopter gunships or even just straight production of some equipment, military radios for instance, R&D is a critical component of the entire venture.
If you take the case of Indonesia for instance that has purchased European technology to produce helicopters (Eurocopter Indonesia), R&D is a huge component of the technology transfer, eg., production of rotors and other electronic components that’s needed to produce the helicopter locally. You see each major electronic piece of the chopper itself otherwise termed as components involved a separate technology. And we are looking here at civilian choppers.
So, military technology, eg, fire control systems (to fire guns or missiles for instance) are more tricky and involve a certain number of electronic technologies. You purchase the know how otherwise known as the technology, say for one of the components so you can produce it but the European entity will not sell it to you off the shelf — you will have to go into partnership and that involves the R&D component even if only to do research and development on local materials, etc. that may be used to produce said item.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 11:26 am
Also, Cat, even a small item like a night vision goggle requires two sets of technology already, i.e., the lens and of course the kit that carries the lens. Maintaining the night vision goggle also require know how which is called maintenance technology. That is for sale too.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 11:39 am
Ramrod,
Don’t know if this could help, but what I used to do when I travelled a lot before, which was an average of 2 weeks a month, was to use my frequent traveller points and take my kids with me on every school break occassion as much as possible. They loved it and learned a lot from travelling too.
Very difficult to be away so much but it’s better to do it today when kiddies are very young than when they are much older and need ‘fixtures’ at home.
Hence, I can connect with what you are going through because it happened to me. I only stopped travelling when my youngest son started getting bad grades at school and failed a year some 5 years ago (he was 11) which was a result of my being an absentee mum and because of an absentee Dad who was in the same line of job as I was.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 11:42 am
Oh Cat, just to add, to support the R&D component, my company even set up a “university” in the countries where we made technology transfers in addition to on the job continuing education programmes in seller country.
ramrod on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 1:50 pm
mbw,
Thanks, I will think of taking my kid to some of my travels in the future, but not in Myanmar.
tagabukid on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 7:13 pm
“tagabukid, the way you talk, you seem to have a handle on truth. why don’t you be a witness and testify under oath, instead of yakkity-yakking about those “scandals†that you seem to know much about.”
Bencard, wala pang dumarating na subpoena e
I think it’s you who’s “yakkity-yakking” (hey, did you copy that from Sonny Trillanes?) about the Erap pardon.. you’re like the fishwife who wants to pick a fight with her customers instead of asking the cop who let the snatcher run with the purse. come on man, ask yourself: “Wadapak is da matter wit me?”
Not that I have a “handle on the truth”, mukhang mas ok lang talaga ang sense of right and wrong ko kesa sa iyo.
Ikaw, you can weave all your tales using your arsenal of legal gobbledygook pero everything boils down to the fundamentals: right and wrong, black and white, zero and one, good and bad. Let me echo mlq3’s sentiment: if your President has nothing to hide, why does she and her men would want to hide behind executive privilege? Iba na ang guilty!
for your consolation, here’s a toast to Curt Schilling and the Boston Red Sox. Cheers!
The Ca t on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 9:51 pm
thanks MBW for the input.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 10:50 pm
Thanks too, The Cat…
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 12:10 am
tagabukid on, “Iba na ang guilty”
Even murderers are presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you think Gloria is guilty, impeach her. But majority in the congress donot think she is. Their vote is more important than yours. If they are wrong, you should run and be a congressman, so you can impeach a president.
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 12:33 am
the cat on “but if you really talk to the engineers they are just there for “assembly work†not the 5 year course they studied for. There is no “technology transfer.â€
This is the good point to illustrate that one cannot expect the Philippines to suddenly jump and become a technology hub, much less expect a government to be just like that. Technology is private domain, not government. If Bill Gates chose to get employed in Digital Equipment Corp, we would not know today Microsoft. The driver should be the Filipino engineers who have the technical knowledge but have no guts to go personal business.Again to Gloria haters, don’t blame the government.
ramrod on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 1:27 am
dodong,
Problem is, the engineers with probably Bill Gates potential are mostly working as OFWs. So if the government does not lay the groundwork conducive to the “private domain” its a case of “which comes first the chicken or the egg?”
Its a matter of policy, re Industrial Reforms, this is basically government initiated. How long have we had the Export Processing Zones, since the time of Marcos? From that time to now would have been sufficient enough to jump to technology hub, as other countries have done in less time.
Its not just a matter of hating Gloria, its hating what she has been doing and failed to do, as the presidents that came before her as far as this area is concerned. If its as simple as “hate Gloria” it would have been easier, its “hate lack of satisfactory results.” As result-oriented individuals I believe we deserve the right to expect the same (or more) from our leaders.
Its a matter of management. Its a matter of leadership, “lead us to where?” Genuine leadership shows, nobody can fake it, the people will notice it – and its getting obvious.
ramrod on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 1:28 am
and dodong,
If ever you will hold a leadership position in the future, the job description is summed up as “ITS ALL MY FAULT.”
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 2:33 am
ramrod on, “So if the government does not lay the groundwork conducive to the “private domain†its a case of “which comes first the chicken or the egg?â€
So why Henry Sy and Henry Zobel businesses flourish? No private domain in the Philippines? Henry Sy started a small shoe store in Quiapo. You don’t have to go to industrial reforms, instead just talk of simple, actual, real business in the Philippines that works and Filipinos can understand. No need of chicken and egg mentality.
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 2:42 am
ramrod on, “As result-oriented individuals I believe we deserve the right to expect the same (or more) from our leaders.”
You cannot be result-oriented bad mouthing the government on business sector when you have not contributed to the Philippine business society. That is funny. You should try create business and employ Filipinos. When you failed in that endeavor, then come back and bad mouth the government.
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 3:06 am
ramrod, “Its a matter of management. Its a matter of leadership, “lead us to where?â€
Right. Pretty much obvious. Majority of Filipinos like you wanted to be lead into( where?). Hehe. That is the root cause why Philippines is LABOR economy and less of BUSINESS economy. Look at the western economy, the driving force is the business sector. Again, Filipinos rather go passive, be an employee and have the audacity to demand wage increase because of high prices. Excuse me that is not going to work.
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 3:12 am
“If ever you will hold a leadership position in the future, the job description is summed up as “ITS ALL MY FAULT.â€
You cannot tell, huh because you never been there. I tell you from my experience, subordinates always complains.
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 3:41 am
ramrod on, “Its not just a matter of HATING Gloria, its HATING what she has been doing and failed to do”.
After Gloria, the hating cycle continues. Because you are waiting for messiah to uplift your standard of living. That is not going to happen. Typical of Filipino character, passive and hateful. No wonder politics is the number one activity of Filipinos. Opps, don’t go ballistic. To put in the proper context, if Filipinos strive on business to generate opportunities for others as well, instead of becoming utusan (therefore hateful) the discussion would be different.
ramrod on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 1:26 pm
dodong,
Right now I’m with one of the biggest global conglomerates based in Europe. The things I’ve seen will probably make you faint. Efficiency at its best, benefits and compensationa at the 100 percentile, yes we even have gyms in the plants and administrative offices. I do not believe in messiahs, except Jesus Christ of course, if ever I believe in the unlimited potential of any individual to uplift himself and even surpass the foreigners you worship so much.
It is my belief that the Philippines can reach this level, the governments of these countries were not sitting down, thses literally paved the way for business to flourish. Not “help each other to the taxpayers money.” If you ever are in the Philippines you should talk to the businessmen themselves like I do and you’ll see the whole picture. I never did years before because I was abroad.
As I said, I believe we deserve better, we are contributing to the Philippine economy directly in the billions. I doubt you can say the same…But then again, you are free to say anything you want, talk is cheap…
ramrod on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 1:36 pm
Henry Sy?
Are you at all familiar with his business? Are you aware of how he conducts business?
Do your homework, look closely at the things you are interested in…
Have you ever wondered why people like me insist on something better when I could easily just whisk off my family to another country like so many others? Do you have any idea what love og country is? Have you ever served your country? I have, click my handle so that you will know me bettter. Are you even a Filipino citizen? Are you an OFW deligently sending money to folks at home? Are you even a taxpayer?
If not just blog on and enjoy what you’re doing, at least it’ll keep you from getting bored. You continue what it is you’re doing…
d0d0ng on Thu, 1st Nov 2007 11:51 pm
“even surpass the foreigners you worship so much.”
That tells how proud you are of the defense conglomerate that provides the benefits to you that most Filipinos dream about. Very impressionalistic. That entitles you to ask the same of your Philippine government? There is a wide disconnect here.
Your conglomerate is run by profit objectives. Philippine government is hemorrhaging of infightings on limited resources, thanks to destabilization of useless peoples power. No comparison. Do your homework. Do business in the Philippines so you can implement the benefits (to Filipinos) that you have enjoyed, am sure you should have no problems because you have the insights of learned & experienced person working in a very efficient and effective defense conglomerate.
Another misconception is your remittance in billions. It does not translate into government revenue to be used to pay cost and services of running the government.
d0d0ng on Sat, 3rd Nov 2007 5:25 am
“defense conglomerate”
i assume of european eads…now i know of the swedish-finnish forest product company with 30+% gp…not bad…