Manuel L. Quezon III

178 Comments »

Rom said:
I know that we are now up to our ears with people who remember martial law with bitterness. I feel for them. But I have no memory of martial law, except what my parents told me: they woke up one morning and found no newspaper at at the doorstep. they went to work and found no disturbances in the streets. where my mother worked as a teaching assistant, kids had stopped shooting improvised arrows at teachers. where my father worked, people were railing at all the injustices being committed to aquino and all the rest. needless to say, my father believed marcos to be the devil, while my mother was thankful that she no longer had to worry about people setting the family car on fire.
# 22 September 2007 at 2:59 am

nash said:
Too bad blogs haven’t been invented yet. Marcos would have been a prolific blogger. Imagine how full his comments box would have been.
# 22 September 2007 at 3:02 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
I don’t know, between Joma and Marcos, I would choose Marcos.
# 22 September 2007 at 3:13 am

Karlo said:
between Joma and Marcos, I would choose Marcos.
Why’s that?
# 22 September 2007 at 3:33 am

slim whale said:
marcos’ diary is simply disturbing.
# 22 September 2007 at 3:43 am

Bencard said:
take away the systematic plunder of the nation’s wealth, and the bastardization of the rule of law in the equation and i would have supported marcos’ dictatorship, for as long as necessary, to discipline a wayward society that was weaned in aberrational governance by spanish friars and spineless secular officials. it appears that our home grown rulers, elected though they may be, followed the example of these despicable foreigners and carried on where the latter left off.
i don’t think the people learned any lesson from the marcos’”authoritarianism”. its now business as usual, with the licentious press and profit-oriented media arrogantly proclaiming its own untouchability; politicians seeking public office for personal gain, their relatives and their cronies; a gullible citizenry that cannot be outraged by the most heinous crimes against the national welfare committed by its highest official; a clergy that has lost credibility and moral ascendancy and yet tries to cling to pre-spanish power and privilege; an “educated” portion of the population who gives up any form of idealism and sulks in the corner in defeat, or become obstinate cynic who insists that his countrymen cannot do anything good or right; a budding entrepreneur who sets up shop in the middle of a street; a family who builds a barong-barong in the first vacant lot it sees that belongs to another; etc., etc.
yes, the country may be ripe for another dictatorship either by the left or the right of the political spectrum. and we only have ourselves to blame, whether we like it or not.
# 22 September 2007 at 4:53 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Karlo,
Bencard supplied some of the answers.
# 22 September 2007 at 5:15 am

peter m. said:
mlq3,
These caught my attention:
“so we must keep our moves clean and submerge self-interest.”
submerged crocodile !
“They (SC) insisted that we retain a color of constitutionality for everything that we do.”
chameleon camouflaged crocodile !
“Occasionally, however, some people feel that we are back in the Old Society and suggest I share in the profits and material rewards of the civil order I have been able to reestablish.”
A crocodile feast New Society turned out to be.
# 22 September 2007 at 7:53 am

The Ca t said:
Sec. Juan Ponce Enrile was ambushed near Wack-Wack at about 8:000 pm tonight. It was a good thing he was riding in his security car as a protective measure…
Staged.
I would have been impressed by the diary if I have not read Conjugal Partnership.
No one can match Marcos in terms of strategic planning. Even his diaries were written according to the plan.
# 22 September 2007 at 7:59 am

peter m. said:
Bencard, MBW,
Define discipline. What’s your definition of disciplne? What to you is discipline? Was Marcos able to discipline his cronies?
Peace-and-order disciplne applies to the people.
Feast-and-order discipline to his cronies?
Weren’t everybody so disciplined then, huh?
# 22 September 2007 at 8:00 am

Bencard said:
peter m, who or whatever you are, you may be one of the reasons for the next martial law, or other form of totalitarian rule. discipline begins with oneself. i don’t have to define it to you. just look around with eyes wide open and you will see it for yourself.
# 22 September 2007 at 8:35 am

justice in waiting said:
Discipline begins with oneself? Marcos initially was successful dicisplining the masses thru the rule of law, bu enforcing the “just” penalty for even the slightest infractions, like breaking the curfew, but as time went by, he let his own circles go wild and the initial strict discipline turned into just “sloganeering”, while his cronies and families were busy plundering the nation’s treasury. NO, discipline can not just start with oneself, just look at neigboring Singapore, it is the “rule of Law” and the enforcement of Law without regards to an individual status that instill discipline among the masses, and bencard you knew it, you are living in a country where discipline was initially imposed by its pioneers by hanging its law breakers by the trees…
# 22 September 2007 at 9:16 am

Bencard said:
i support most of pgma’s policies of governance and exercise of presidential powers. but i will oppose and protest with all my heart her impending decision to pardon estrada and wipe out every bit of hope that a new era in the pursuit to contain corruption in government has finally began. it is unfortunate that she would succumb to irresistible political pressure, and enter into a pact with the devil. the advice she got from her palace guards may prove to be the most self-destructive in her entire political career. every administration has this kind of advisers – apparently well-meaning but unwittingly works to undermine the interest they are supposed to serve.
i have gone on record with a simple vision of what could be the consequence of such a pardon. estrada has remained arrogant and unremorseful of his sins. his fanatics are equally obstinate in their devotion to him and will not accept the court’s finding of his guilt. reconciliation, which pgma relentlessly pursues, is out of the question. its a fool’s gold. estrada and his people have only one thing in their mind – revenge for all the humiliation, loss of power and loss of ill-gotten wealth that he has suffered. destabilization of pgma’s government will continue with new vigor now that its prime mover is free unconditionally. its a win – win situation for estrada and lose – lose for gma, thanks to her “loyal” advisers. the ultimate loser is the filipino people. the next corrupt president, and every grafter (past, present and future) could continue their nefarious ways without fear of retribution but instead with sure expectation of impunity.
sayang! sayang na sayang. talaga namang nakapanlulumo.
# 22 September 2007 at 9:29 am

watchful eye said:
hindi nyo ba napuna. pati yun family portrait ni marcos as falsificado. marcos is about 5’6” and imelda 5’8” but in the portait marcos is made to appear as almost half a foot taller than her.
“No one can match Marcos in terms of strategic planning.” – The cat
you mean not even ate glue? to think, she has not even declared martial law yet and neri is acting like he’s under marcos’ gun.
# 22 September 2007 at 9:30 am

peter m. said:
bencard,
,a Marcosian discipline fan and a GMA fanatic, says,”discipline begins with oneself.”
“who or whatever you are, you” make my day, funny, tickle my funny bones,
# 22 September 2007 at 10:45 am

peter m. said:
Discipline in the New Society we are talking about started with Marcos himself who wasn’t able to control himself and his cronies from ‘robbing’ the country very much. Funny. Huh?
Discipline in GMA’s Strong Republic starts with GMA who was’t able to control herself from cheating, “hello”?
Funny? Not really, but someone here is.
# 22 September 2007 at 11:11 am

hvrds said:
Another great public service for those who were still unborn by MLQ3. It is once again clear that Marcos’s drive to tame the tribes and clans of the Philippine islands would not work since the rationale’s for the changes in society were basically fraudulent and flawed. The Romualdez clan and the Cojuangco clan (part of it) were complicit in the take over of power. Ponce Enrile and Cojuangco were never made to answer for their part in this take over. It was simply a consolidation of power for a few privileged families.
Marcos also created the rise of the uniformed elite in Philippine tribal society. The landed gentry simply shifted their loyalties to the heads of the new society and abandoned the Aquino-Cojuangco clan to their own resources.
The institutions of constitutional government were mere decorations and tools for the dictatorship.
After Edsa I we have clear competition amongst the clans for seizing the power of the state to push their economic interests.
We should not be surprised at this since these clans evolved from the Spanish form of European Catholic feudal systems. Divine right to rule with the Cardinal blessing the ascension to power. The present Cardinal Rosales like Cardinal Sin who did not oppose martial law. Even in Argentina’s dirty war vs. the so called left the Catholic Church supported the dictators.
The U.S. reeling from their Vietnam debacle and Nixons troubles readily gave their ascent as long as their interests were protected. The infamous Quasha decision a result of that ascent.
Marcos raised graft and corruption to an institutionalized level with brilliant technocrats and lawyers signing on to this massive plunder of the treasury. This business model has been refined and used again and again during the Cory, Ramos, Erap and now GMA years.
I was fortunate to sit with one of these men who acted as conduit for the couple and it was amazing how they conspired with technocrats to rape the treasury. They acted as if it was a privilege to serve the royal couple. But they had their share in the booty.
We see it again today. The rot has become embedded in society.
These clans see the treasury as their private domain. Look at JDV, torn between the love for his son and his Queen. What happened to the common good?
Congress has the power of the purse. The executive has the power over the purse. Disputes between the two are supposed to be resolved by the judiciary based on the rule of law which governs the power of and over the purse.
That purse belongs to the collective society in a state.
Still an alien concept for members of a tribal and clan based societies.
# 22 September 2007 at 12:46 pm

TDC said:
NEVER AGAIN!
# 22 September 2007 at 1:09 pm

Karlo said:
peter m, hvrds, and TDC:
hear, hear.
# 22 September 2007 at 1:27 pm

TDC said:
There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power,than by violent and sudden usurpation.
— President James Madison. 1751-1836
This is the style of Gloria Macapagal Arroyo—two steps forward,one step backward as she clings to power.
# 22 September 2007 at 1:55 pm

Karl Garcia said:
we are back to slogans.
Golez wants to promote “disiplina ang kailangan para umunlad ang bayan” or otherway around.
in our homes we try in vain to command our babies to learn and appreciate the word no,so i guess disciplene begins at that early stage,then when he understands right and wrong we try to inject “value systems” and “belief systems”, then life goes on.
If that is not a microcosm for discipline in society,then I don’t know what is.
# 22 September 2007 at 2:11 pm

peter m. said:
kg,
Abalos/Mendoza: “Sa ikauunlad ng bayan, ZTE ang kailangan.”
Ariel Ureta:”Sa ikauulnald ng bayan, bisikleta ang kailangan.” (Was it true Ariel was invited to Crame and made to ride a bisikleta around the grounds? Pia Cyetano can bowwow his line now.)
# 22 September 2007 at 2:35 pm

xyz said:
IT’S CONFIRMED!!!! FERDIE WAS A MENTAL CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# 22 September 2007 at 2:45 pm

xyz said:
COULD IMELDA’S CASE BE FAR BEHIND???? HIKIHIKHIKHIKHIKHIK!!!!!!
# 22 September 2007 at 2:46 pm

mantz said:
A German propaganda expert (Was it Goebels?) once said that “A lie that is repeated over and over, will be accepted as truth! (Or something to that effect).
Mr Marcos, even in his own diaries wrote lies and pure lies …
I wonder what he was thinking and feeling when he was writing his diaries …
# 22 September 2007 at 2:54 pm

The Ca t said:
you mean not even ate glue? to think, she has not even declared martial law yet and neri is acting like he’s under marcos’ gun.
Yes, because if she were, you would not be able make comments in this column with the sarcastic remarks.
# 22 September 2007 at 3:12 pm

DevilsAdvc8 said:
“…with the licentious press and profit-oriented media arrogantly proclaiming its own untouchability; politicians seeking public office for personal gain, their relatives and their cronies; a gullible citizenry that cannot be outraged by the most heinous crimes against the national welfare committed by its highest official; a clergy that has lost credibility and moral ascendancy and yet tries to cling to pre-spanish power and privilege; an “educated” portion of the population who gives up any form of idealism and sulks in the corner in defeat, or become obstinate cynic who insists that his countrymen cannot do anything good or right; a budding entrepreneur who sets up shop in the middle of a street; a family who builds a barong-barong in the first vacant lot it sees that belongs to another; etc., etc”
Bencard, you touched on something I feel most of us also feel. And you said it also: discipline starts with oneself. But its rather aberrant to support a strongman’s regime if you believe that discipline should start with the individual, no? Strongmen enforce discipline. Their kind of discipline. And their belief is that discipline starts at the end of their gun. Not with one’s own choices. So, san ka ba?
# 22 September 2007 at 3:15 pm

peter m. said:
mlq3, kg, bencard, cvj, etal,
How important is discipline in society?
Kung walang disiplina ang mga mamamayan sa isang lipunan, walang kaayusan at walang kaunlaran na magaganap.
How can we have discipline in society?
Maraming punto de vista at maraming sagot sa tanong na iyan. Kaya’t sa kontexto ng usapan sa ngayon, ang kaugnay na tanong ay:
What can a leader do so that there can be discipline in our society? Can he impose discipline on the people or lead by example?
Kaya’t mahalaga na maunawan ang pagkakaiba ng pag-didisiplina na may pananakot kaysa pag-gabay at pagpapaliwanag kaysa panlilinlang.
Ang kabuluhan ng mga katagang “Sa ikauunlad ng bayan, disiplina ang kailangan,” ay iba sa panahon ng batas militar kaysa sa panahon na may kalayaan. Gayun din na iba ang kabuluhan kung ang naghahayag ay totoo at kapanipaniwala o isang sinungaling at manlilinlang.
When did we ever have discipline in our society? Was it during martial law? During the Japanese occupation? American colonization? Spanish colonization?
Was there more discipline in our society during the time of Ramon Magsaysay or during the time of Marcos?
In our experience as a nation, was there more discpline in society when the leader is loved and reverred than when the leader is feared and hated?
# 22 September 2007 at 3:19 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
peter m.:
i once had the chance to ask ariel ureta about this, when he interviewed me. he said, it wasn’t true. the marcoses would never have locked him up, because he was friends with the marcos kids.
# 22 September 2007 at 3:28 pm

DevilsAdvc8 said:
It is I, Hyde, speaking. Having read and learned from a tragic strongman, I now list the actions a reformer must take in order to avoid the pitfalls that Marcos suffered:
1. Write the ideals you are fighting for in a list. Read them everyday while you are in power.
2. Steep yourself in doubt. Surround yourself with people you can trust, but do not lock up people who criticize you. Their criticisms are important in helping you resist self-delusion.
3. Do not lock up the SC, media, or congress. If faced with obstructionism, use the people’s voice in your persuasion. If faced with threats of being unseated, rally the people to your defense.
4. Only claim martial law powers in one aspect: strengthening our institutions. Establish the groundwork for making these institutions impervious to executive demands. Lay waste to every corrupting system within these institutions.
5. Prepare for the eventuality of stepping down. Put measures to prevent the rise of another dictator after you, the gradual come back of corrupt men, and the subversion of everything you worked hard to reform.
6. Reform the education sector and use it to instill nationalism to the children. Let critical thinking reign supreme, and rote memorization be smitten down. Above all, teach history in context. Tell stories, not dates, figures, and names. Teach events and history’s lessons, not who, what, where, and when. The only important questions are HOW and WHY. And they should be taught the answer.
7. Go to bed, and sleep soundly.
# 22 September 2007 at 3:37 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
peter m., if you ask people who lived through those times, the two traumas our society had difficult coping with were: ww2 (the japanese occupation) and the latter part of martial law. i once talked to an economist who said he had empirically proven that the point where corruption became endemic in phil. society was a date that shocked me and would probably surprise you: 1983. that’s when our economy basically collapsed.
personally, i think the best discipline is when it’s shown to be in the person’s interest to exercise some self control. people line up patiently to ride jeeps, etc. now, just ten years ago people were saying it would never happen.
you also have the perennial example of subic: enforced impartially, people obey the rules.
# 22 September 2007 at 3:43 pm

DevilsAdvc8 said:
“i think the best discipline is when it’s shown to be in the person’s interest to exercise some self control. people line up patiently to ride jeeps”
Manolo: so, what we just need now is for the mrt-riding throng to learn the same.
and a subic-like enforcement of rules nationwide.
Filipinos are great lawbreakers. But they obey them when it is enforced with diligence. We all know this from actions of OFWs. The great chameleon in following laws. Outside pinas, the ever dutiful follower of laws. Returning home: will break laws, if no one is looking, or if one thinks he can get away with it.
# 22 September 2007 at 4:02 pm

JDQ said:
“Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.” –ALCUIN c. 735-804 Letter to Charlemagne, AD800 Works.
# 22 September 2007 at 5:06 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
devils, i dont think that even a unqiuely filipino characteristic. it’s human nature to act that way.
# 22 September 2007 at 5:11 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
alcuin quote was from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_populi
i.e.
Often quoted as, Vox populi, vox dei, “The voice of the people is the voice of God”, is an old proverb often erroneously attributed to William of Malmesbury in the twelfth century.[1]
Another early reference to the expression is in a letter from Alcuin to Charlemagne in 798, although it is believed to have been in earlier use.[2] The full quotation from Alcuin reads:
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.[3]
English translation:
And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness
# 22 September 2007 at 5:19 pm

peter m. said:
mlq3,
Vox populi, isn’t always vox Dei?
But conditional if and only if, in an elections for example, the voters vote according to conscience?
Concscience is the vox dei among the individuals comprising the populi.
Vox populi who follow their conscience is vox Dei.
# 22 September 2007 at 5:31 pm

peter m. said:
mlq3,
“personally, i think the best discipline is when it’s shown to be in the person’s interest to exercise some self control”
So that a good disciplinarian must also be a good explainer. Kailangan daanin sa paliwanag at kailangan credible ang nagpapaliwanag.
In that sense, who among the front running presidentiables, has the best potential of being a good disciplinarian? An important campaign issue, don’t you think?
IMHO, as a better explainer both in terms of patience and credibility, Villar is a better choice as a discplinarian than Lacson who projects the image but not the substance of one.
# 22 September 2007 at 5:44 pm

peter m. said:
mlq3,
“in subic: enforced impartially, people obey the rules.”
When people are free, when people freely agree to the rules and freely submit to the rules, then the people’s obedience to the rules is the measure of discipline in a society.
That I think ideally is in essence the meaning of discipline in society.
Of course, anyone can give a discourse on what is discipline in society and what is not, but the question at hand is,
Can history really credit Marcos for the discipline in the New Society during Martial Law?
# 22 September 2007 at 6:05 pm

peter m. said:
mlq3,
“in subic: enforced impartially, people obey the rules.”
When people are free, when people freely agree to the rules and freely submit to the rules, then the people’s obedience to the rules is the measure of discipline in a society.
That I think is in essence the meaning of discipline in society.
Of course, anyone can give a discourse on what is discipline in society and what is not, but the question at hand is,
Can history really credit Marcos for the discipline in the New Society during Martial Law?
# 22 September 2007 at 6:08 pm

cvj said:
Whether or not the ‘voice of the people is the voice of God’ has the same basis in reality as debating whether Voltes V or Mazinger Z is more powerful. Why are we still relying on mythologies in use during the 9th century as the basis for running 21st century society? The choice is not on who has God’s voice or blessing. Even Marcos (as shown above) and Arroyo have claimed a mandate from God. The real question is whether we want government that follows the will of the few, the many or everyone. True democracy is the rule of all by all, something that our homegrown elitists won’t allow.
# 22 September 2007 at 7:32 pm

cvj said:
Along the same lines on what i said above (at 7:32pm), JDV has just said that his son is ‘an agent of the Lord’:
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view_article.php?article_id=90090
I did not realize the Lord dabbled in Broadband deals…must buy AHI stock.
# 22 September 2007 at 7:55 pm

vic said:
A few good reasons why discipline start with oneself, not because it is inherent to human nature, but because of the pain of the consequence.
Traffic infraction:
Car insurance for beginners (driving without experience locally) start at minimum $2000 a year.
One infraction of speeding under 20 kms., maybe just a fine of under $100. Over 20 kms. A fine of up to $300. plus demerit points plus increase of insurance premium to double the initial premium. Over 50 kms. First offence maximum up to $10 grand, second offence forget driving. DUI under the Criminal code.
Libelous insults: lawsuit
Carrying firearms in person, only Police officers are allowed, anybody else is a criminal (except armoured guards on duty).
Throwing refused on the street..littering.. Fines…
Drinking Alcohol or going around intoxicated…fines or detention in detox…
And the cops are serious with their business…
# 22 September 2007 at 8:52 pm

TDC said:
Ohe of the most memorable lines in the arrival speech of Ninoy:
“On one of the long corridors of Harvard University are carved in granite the words of Archibald Macleish: ‘How shall freedom be defended? By arms when it is attacked by arms; by truth when it is attacked by lies; by democratic faith when it is attacked by authoritarian dogma. Always and in the final act, by determination and faith.’
I promised on the grave of Ninoy “NEVER AGAIN!”
# 22 September 2007 at 9:01 pm

TDC said:
37.
Morality is the bedrock of public service. And this must start by the example set by leadership at the highest levels.”
-Glria Macapagal Arroyo’s, Phil. Navy, Headquarters
March 21, 2001
If this speech were delivered by another person,he or she will be considered a “DESTABILIZER” by the government.Kasi,ang sakit ng tama kay GMA!
# 22 September 2007 at 9:12 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Sa ikaaunlad ng bayan biskleta ang kailangan….
hindi naman pala 22o yun eh, sabi ni mlq3.
muntik na akong malito kung sino nagiinterview naalala before the explainer and the other shows ariel ureta had a 6-7 pm slot on anc on a particular weekday.
it was a management decision,but I guess kailangan magyari yun kundi walang palabas na explainer.
———————
maiba tayo
martial law: for us born in the early seventies,depende kung ano sabihin ng magulang.
basta importante sa amin holiday pag september 21 dahil martial law daw sabi ni teacher.
we spent our early elementary years when martial law was lifted and just two years later ninoy was killed….
so biglang iba na ang sina sabi ng mga magulang namin.
ako na military bra,t at least we were told to admire marcos, medyo force of habit na yata sa mga militar yun nung time na yun eh.
pero nung time ng assasination ni ninoy nagulat ako sa homerrom adviser namin na hiningan kami ng opinyon grade six pa lang kami nun, sabi namin sabi ng mommy at daddy namin ganito ganuon….ano pa nga ba ang maasahan nya,bata pa kami nuon para hingan ng opinyon,buti sana kung nababsa na sya sa libro nung time na yun. Imposible.
what a random thought.
# 22 September 2007 at 9:16 pm

Bencard said:
devilsadvoc8, i get your point. strongmen enforce discipline in society, especially a weak society such as ours, if i may add. i had written in this blog some time ago that weak people needs a strongman, a strong people has no need for one. of course, there will always be ‘pasaways’ in every society, as in most families. that’s were the “rule of law” and its enforcement come in. only when self-discipline fails , or not employed, that forced compliance with good behavior becomes inevitable.
lack of self discipline emanates from lack of self-respect, indifference and absence of sense of personal responsibility, among other things. it is an aberration for an adult, apparently normal person (mentally) to be coerced into doing the right thing.
the failings of marcos stemmed from his own eventual surrender to lack of inner self discipline and that of his relatives, courtiers, and cadre of sycophants and bootlickers (some or many of whom are still in our midst).
one indication of lack of national discipline is the tragic loss of the people capacity to be outraged by the revolting behavior of its leaders.
# 22 September 2007 at 9:35 pm

Bencard said:
erratum: people’s capacity to be outraged…
# 22 September 2007 at 9:38 pm

The Ca t said:
phil. society was a date that shocked me and would probably surprise you: 1983. that’s when our economy basically collapsed.
# 22 September 2007 at 10:17 pm

The Ca t said:
Continuation:
I was not shocked. Dollar salting must have been intense during this period.Preparing for the worst to come when resources were being moved to other countries by those who accumulated wealth illegally.
importers found it difficult to buy dollars for importation.
They charged penalty for dollars withdrawn from the bank.
# 23 September 2007 at 12:03 am

mlq3 (author) said:
cAt, the economist’s argument was corruption at all levels, top to to bottom.
# 23 September 2007 at 12:30 am

Bencard said:
i beg to disagree with you mlq3. i think corruption was endemic in philippine society since the spanish colonial rule of which jose rizal wrote about. the padre damasos, padre salvis, kapitan tiagos, padre camorras, donya victorina, don tiburcios, ben zayb, etc. are still with us after 200 years.
what happened to the proceeds of the sale of the islands to the spaniards (the gold salakot, etc.) in the 16th century? what about the funds supposed to have been received from the americans in hong kong (through adm. george dewey) purportedly for use to prosecute the philippine “revolution” to its completion, and set up its own independent government? were they all accounted for?
i may be historically way off, mlq3, but since you are the historian, please enlighten me. thanks.
# 23 September 2007 at 12:34 am

The Ca t said:
mlq3,
cAt, the economist’s argument was corruption at all levels, top to to bottom.
I remember an old friend telling me that during the martial law,corruption was monopolized by the people in power at the top. Sabi niya at least isa lang nagpapasasa.
In 1983,siguro nakita ng mga tao na crime does not pay, so labo-labo na rin sila.
Wala naman yatang naparusahang corrupt official noong martial law, meron ba? alam ko ang naparusahan lang mga opposition.
# 23 September 2007 at 1:20 am

mlq3 (author) said:
bencard, in the absence of the professor in question presenting his paper, then his opinion is as good as anyone else’s.
we can stipulate some things. first, that corruption is a construct -legally, morally, etc.- but that it is never absent. second, that however defined, societies revise those definitions, so what was permissible at one point in time, may no longer be so, at some later date. but that also, so long as the consensus exists, as to what constitutes corruption, then we have a basis for some kind of comparison. third, corruption, however defined, is fostered by many things, including the strength or weakness of the rule of law, the prestige or ability to inspire cooperation and obedience from governors and the governed, adverse circumstances (war, famine, global/local economic events) and positive situations.
consider bonifacio, in justifying the revolution, accepted that a contract had taken place between the spaniards and native rulers: the blood compacts by which spanish sovereignty was recognized by local rulers. but he said, it is time to tear up that contract. if spanish authority, to us, today, involved basically land grabbing an archipelago, intimidating and fraud (which to us today would make any agreements void ab initio), we say so only because bonifacio et al said, look, the premises of the past no longer apply.
consider ww2, when basically you had anarchy in many areas, a military occupation in the rest, officials torn between conflicting claims to sovereignty and allegiance, an economy suddenly ly wrecked by war, etc. dog eat dog as is often the case in war: and our elders more often than not say, something snapped, the moral fiber of the country proved very brittle indeed. the proliferation of arms led oppresssed peasants to finally try to get even, landlords trying to defend their privileges, no one sure which government was legitimate or would win, infrastructure wrecked. the bedrock of prewar society, the newely-emergent middle class, as well as the upper class, suddenly found themselves without finds.
after the war, those classes tried to regain what was lost by all means necessary; the dispossed continued their fight: but stability was restored quickly enough to prevent a total disintegration and there were enough instances of reform to prevent a total downward slide.
the exodus of our middle class began when? the 70s and the 80s, when they began to be joined in their exodus by the masses. never have you seen such an exodus by a country’s professional classes unless in times of war or total anarchy. the professor, in our conversations, and convincingly so, to me, argued that in the 80s things had gotten so dire, that with the possible exception of the japanese occuption and the revolutionary period, our country has never faced such a dog eat dog situation.
how long did the revolutionary period last? the violence was from 1896 to 1903; all remnants of opposition stamped out by 1907. 10-11 years max but more intensely, 7 years. how long did ww2 last? 41 to 45, four years and with a devastation that surpassed the revolutionary era. how long was martial law? officially, 72 to 81, but we know the whole deal was 72 to 86, 14 years. and the exodus has continued and accelerated since; so how long have we been feeling the effects of the 81-83 collapse? it’s 2007. over 20 years.
officials accused of corruption pre martial law seem myopic compared to what took place later and even marcos’s plunder seems less breath taking today, considering many more are feasting in a big way compared to the handful of cronies during the marcos years.
incidentally, my impression is, an actual case was filed against pres. aguinaldo during his exile in hk and he was able to prove he handled revolutionary funds prudently. also, ‘ive done computations of official salaries prior to martial law, let me quote myself:
“In the present day, when the President of the Philippines earns 300,000 pesos a year, or 25,000 pesos a month, this seems inconceivable. This made me wonder if this was even conceivable in Magsaysay’s time. Or any previous president’s time.
“I will leave it to Solita Monsod to embark on a more scientific study of what I am about to reveal, but I think the figures I’ve arrived at are as good a rule of thumb as any to arrive at what presidents actually used to earn.
“Under the 1935 Constitution, the salary of the president was 30,000 pesos an annum. To figure out what, say, this amount circa 1937, would be worth in terms of today’s pesos, I asked the help of Jeremy Morales Barns, who is an economist and historian. Since we couldn’t find tables that calculate, say, the equivalent of a peso in the year 1937 if you received a commensurate amount today, we resorted to first, figuring out what pesos were worth then, in dollars, figuring out what those dollars would be worth in today’s dollars, and then converting those dollars to today’s pesos. If course this doesn’t take things such as the cost of living, both then and now, into account, but it’s a start.
“From the time of the Commonwealth until the administration of Diosdado Macapagal, the peso-dollar exchange rate was fixed at 2 to 1. So whether in 1937 or 1957, the president’s salary of 30,000 pesos was equivalent to 15,000 dollars. To find out what 15,000 dollars earned per year in 1937 would be equivalent to, in terms of what the dollar can purchase today, economists apparently refer to a table of “purchasing power conversion factors” prepared by the U.S. government. For example, you take 15,000 dollars circa 1937, multiply it by 12.814 (the factor according to the table), and the amount you get is what those 1937 dollars would be worth in the year 2004. You then multiply that amount by the current exchange rate and you get an idea of what a certain amount in 1937 could buy you in 2004.
“To cut a long story short, in today’s peso terms, the president of the Philippines circa 1937 was earning an annual salary of 12.814 million pesos! A cool million pesos a month in today’s peso terms. Based on the 1937 appropriations act, among the lowest paid people in the government, janitors, were earning 18,000 pesos a month in terms of 2004 peso equivalents. Still a decent salary.
“Based on the different rates in that table, the following deductions are possible: in 1946, Manuel Roxas was earning as president, the equivalent of 9.43 million pesos a year; in 1957, President Magsaysay was earning the equivalent of 6.54 million pesos a year! At that salary, it is certainly believable that President Magsaysay could honestly instruct Palace accountants to deduct the expenses of his children for food and entertainment, gas and sundries, from his salary, and send them to good private schools (it also explains how his predecessor, President Quirino, and successor, President Garcia, could afford to retire to comfortable but far from flashy homes, located on fairly large but not enormous lots, after they left office).
“President Ramon Magsaysay could afford to be honest and do what he did –be strict about spending for personal, and official, purposes- without it being improbable. His predecessors and succesors, who were less stringent about separating Palace expenses for their families, could certainly have achieved the amount of savings required to retire with a modicum of style and comfort. ”
Notice that until the OFW phenomenon, the last time our professional classes could achieve stability: home, vehicle, schooling for kids, was the 50s and 60s when we’d recovered from the war. increasingly, today, people born into the middle class can only stay in the middle class, if their parents leave them an inheritance or if they go abroad; otherwise, they face a decline in living standards. even the wealthy, to a certain extent, are facing this so they’re moving abroad, too. the poor have lost access to social mobilty locally, i think it’s safe to say, unless they take the shortcut and work abroad.
all these factors intensify corruption. if you’re poor, you will face dilemmas aplenty, to sell your soul or body to get the permits and money needed to travel and keep working abroad; if you’re middle class, you must break rules and cut corners to maintain your standard of living; the wealthy, facing competition from home and abroad, must deal dirtier and dirtier with a political class that finds itself devoid of prestige, lacking in the ability to inspire support, and which has to turn to more and more repugnant means to stay in power.
# 23 September 2007 at 1:30 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
One of the reasons why I liked Marcos was because he was prepared to invade Sabah to recover the island… Sabah rightly belongs to the Sultan of Sulu. It belongs to the Philippines by extension…
Now we have not only almost officiously surrendered Sabah, we have also accepted that they officiously back the rebellion in the South – the Malaysians are the godfathers of the MILF!
# 23 September 2007 at 2:19 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Now we have not only almost OFFICIALLY surrendered Sabah to Malaysia without a squeak, we have also accepted that they officiously back the rebellion in the South – the Malaysians are the bloody godfathers of the MILF!
# 23 September 2007 at 2:21 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Marcos had the guts to do something that the entire Philippine leadership under him put together would never ever even deign imagine doing… He prepared to invade Sabah and guess who squealed prompting America to withdraw the vessels that were on their way to Pinas to ferry the troops en route to station 1?
# 23 September 2007 at 2:23 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Marcos had the guts to do something that the entire Philippine leadership AFTER him put together would never ever even deign imagine doing… He prepared to invade Sabah and guess who squealed prompting America to withdraw the vessels that were on their way to Pinas to ferry the troops en route to station 1?
# 23 September 2007 at 2:24 am

justice league said:
MBW,
You mean Jibin Arula, the lone survivor of the Jabidah massacre?
# 23 September 2007 at 3:05 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Nope, not Arula Justice League, not him.
# 23 September 2007 at 3:37 am

peter m. said:
mlq3,
1983 was something like our ‘Great Depression”? Prof had empirical evidence that it was the direst time ever and since, are ther elements of that peiod present today? are there indications that history — 1983 — will repeat itself in three years perhaps when GMA’s cronies and allies move the loot out of the country and be Overseas Filipino Wealthy Fugitives?
# 23 September 2007 at 4:13 am

peter m. said:
mbw,
Right thing to claim back Sabah, another thing to be saber-rattling against an oil-rich, OPEC-backed country. FM bungled the Sabah claim. We lost Sabah because of his ill conceived attempts at confronting the issue.
# 23 September 2007 at 4:29 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Maybe so, peter m but that doesn’t take away the fact that he did try hence the guts and courage to try – as to ill-conceived attempts, i don’t believe they were, it was more like someone squealed and a well-prepared attempt was bungled by that someone.
Philippine history has shown that in the most important events of its nationhood that the country was never short of people with courage but also of traitors and cowards.
# 23 September 2007 at 4:45 am

justice league said:
MBW,
Well in any case; Arula was unlikely to have kept his silence since certain people were precisely out to silence him forever.
# 23 September 2007 at 4:52 am

peter m. said:
mbw,
Yeah agree FM’s got guts. He cut short the US base lease, (indefinite to 50 yrs, 50 to 25 yrs ? am not sure about details), he’s got the guts to face up to the Americans, who were getting tough during the nego, i remeber marcos saying “Unless they’re willing to fight another land war in Asia, we’ve fought a guerilla war against the japs, next time we’ll be more cruel”
# 23 September 2007 at 5:18 am

Bencard said:
mlq3, thanks for giving a primer on the history and economics of corruption in the philippines. i’m much obliged. one thing is clear, that most succeeding filipino leaders did wise up to the colonial friars’ admonition to “give your earthly riches to the church to save your soul” and instead lined their own pockets from the nation’s coffers, with vengeance.
you may be right about there being more sticky hands in the pgma administration than marcos’. i think marcos wielded a very strong mailed fist on would-be grafters, both in and out of government, and not within his favored and protected cohorts. in contrast, and as you hinted in previous posts, pgma seems to enjoy less popularity, and generates less fear, because of the threats of ouster, by hook or by crook, by her enemies. false and fair-weather “allies” who are engaged in clandestine corruption, and not at all intimidated by punitive measures, could not be easily controlled. of course, pgma is capable of doing a marcos if only she could be as ruthless. i think despite claim that it could never happen again, a marcos – style pre-emptive counter-revolution could be possible in a weak society such as ours – where everything and everyone have a price. but i have faith that pgma would not succumb to that kind of lure. she’s not that kind of a leader.
it’s not enough to be an honest leader. one must also have honest men and women to work for him or her and honest people to govern. thus we go back to the issue of individual or personal discipline, multiplied 80 million times.
# 23 September 2007 at 7:43 am

Bencard said:
mbw, i recall it was pres. diosdado macapagal who formalized our claim to sabah. he, however, pursued it diplomatically with malaysia and indonesia, and legally with, i believe, the international claims court. i thought, he could not risk a shooting war with the other claimants (malaysia & indonesia) because it could lead to confrontation between u.s., our ally and protector (by treaty), and u.k., malaysia’s champion. i didn’t think u.s. was enthusiastic about taking on u.k. on our behalf.
# 23 September 2007 at 9:03 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“it’s not enough to be an honest leader. one must also have honest men and women to work for him or her and honest people to govern. thus we go back to the issue of individual or personal discipline, multiplied 80 million times.” – Bencard
For one thing, GMA is not an honest leader. She is a cheat, a liar, and a thief. And definitely, most of the people around her are as dishonest (what do you expect with a leader like her?) Now, if you again ask me for concrete evidence beyond reasonable doubt, I have the right description for you, supplied by your nemesis Marcos: you’re “too bound by technical legalism.”
The solution is not to wait until all 80 miilion Filipinos become personally disciplined. That would be like waiting for Godot. Even in the USA, your adopted country, not all 300 million Americans are personally disciplined.
What the country needs is a strong, honest, sincere leader who only has the nation’s interest at heart. Just the right leadership, Bencard, as the other recently developed countries around the region have demonstrated, is needed for the country to really move, not on, but upward.
# 23 September 2007 at 9:15 am

Anton said:
Should it matter what discipline should be? Isn’t it obvious? I don’t understand the whole discussion. A nation of disciplined folks would certainly move the country forward. What we have right now in our country are a people who are basically so used to corruption in their midst that their sense of right and wrong has become totally screwed. The baser form of survival has certainly taken over. Love of country is certainly in the backburner for most people. That’s why you see a majority of people who want to just leave the country for greener pastures.
# 23 September 2007 at 10:38 am

js said:
mbw, sya ba yung nasa 500 bills.
# 23 September 2007 at 10:38 am

js said:
i thought nag-squeal si 500 peso , kaya na-abort yun oplan na yun, that caused the jabidah massacre
# 23 September 2007 at 10:42 am

supremo said:
mlq3
Is the Jabidah massacre true?
I read somewhere that Ninoy had a Senate report that said it didn’t happen. What’s your take on this?
# 23 September 2007 at 10:42 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Bencard,
You are right on all counts:
“he could not risk a shooting war with the other claimants (malaysia & indonesia) because it could lead to confrontation between u.s., our ally and protector (by treaty), and u.k., malaysia’s champion. i didn’t think u.s. was enthusiastic about taking on u.k. on our behalf.”
# 23 September 2007 at 10:52 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
I had the chance to interview a few AFP officers in the mid-90s and who were young lieutenants and captains involved in the planned invasion of Sabah at the time. One of them was a young pilot at the time – he told me horror stories after he and fellow pilot officers were left stranded on an island because the plan had to be aborted following the denunciation of the military invasion.
# 23 September 2007 at 10:56 am

mlq3 (author) said:
peter m., i’d refer you to my article on the martial law years:
http://www.tribo.org/history/edsa.html
see the section “prescription for change.” based on how things tanked at that time, i don’t think it would be even possible to duplicate our economic collapse at the time.
# 23 September 2007 at 11:05 am

mlq3 (author) said:
bencard, to be fair:
marcos’ time is when government graft became systematized plunder. if in the past, politicians skimmed, with marcos a smaller number of politicians actively raided the treasury. i was recently reading a book on the environment and under marcos, logging concessions, for example, grew tenfold in as many years.
at the same time, under marcos, corruption became endemic in the lower ranks of the civil service, because of economic mismanagement and advancing up the ranks becoming determined solely by favoritism.
i think it’s fair to say that under gma, low-level corruption has probably been reduced, in some offices, drastically., there are definitely efficiencies established in some gov’t offices and with that, a corresponding reduction in petty corruption. therse are genuine, because possibly theylll be long-lasting, achievements.
where the president has been a big failure is in curbing smuggling. and in customs. if you look at her bases of support, you will see why her successes in curbing petty corruption have been accompanied by singificant failures in big-time corruption.
# 23 September 2007 at 11:11 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Curiously, Malaysians and non-Malaysians can buy property in Sabah but only on a freehold basis, i.e., 99 year lease while in the rest of Malaysia, one can buy property on freehold basis, i.e., ownership ad vitam eternam.
My suspicion is that Malaysia – which has been telling the world that it “owns” Sabah – cannot deliver deeds of ownership other than a leasehold title to the buyer very likely on account of the standing contention by the Philippines that Sabah belongs to the Philippines! (Also, even if you buy a property in Sabah today, it takes a minimum of a decade to get that leasehold deed…)
When I advanced this theory to friends in Malaysia, particularly to those who live in Sabah, they acknowledge that this could very well be the reason.
Surprisingly (I don’t know if it’s out of politesse or courtesy), no Malaysian I’ve met, neither in Sabah nor in mainland Malaysia, not even officers of the Malaysia defence forces, has ever contradicted me frontally about what I’ve always said, “Sabah belongs to the Philippines.”
# 23 September 2007 at 11:13 am

Manila Bay Watch said:
Oops, “Curiously, Malaysians and non-Malaysians can buy property in Sabah but only on a LEASEHOLD basis, i.e., 99 year lease while in the rest of Malaysia, one can buy property on freehold basis, i.e., ownership ad vitam eternam.”
# 23 September 2007 at 11:16 am

mlq3 (author) said:
supremo, this is the first time i’ve hear jabidah wasn’t real.
i haven’t read as much as I should on this subject.
# 23 September 2007 at 11:19 am

supremo said:
mlq3,
I couldn’t belief it too. Maybe Ninoy’s Senate report will clear up everything.
# 23 September 2007 at 11:40 am

TDC said:
MLQ3:I really enjoyed THE EXPLAINER episode on Martial Law declaration particularly the part where the students really wanted to know what that infamous event meant in our history.Never Again!
# 23 September 2007 at 12:37 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
tdc, many thanks. i was pleasantly surprised by the questions, too. hoping experiment with new format will be rewarding.
# 23 September 2007 at 1:36 pm

justice league said:
MBW, js,
It depends on the timeline. Most would have it that the massacre occurred earlier and thus the opportunity for the denunciation.
Your pilot interviewee might have been lucky that he was only stranded.
# 23 September 2007 at 2:45 pm

historybuff said:
can i request mlq3 can i photocopy the marcos diary because i really want to read it i already have the book delusions of a dictator but it is incomplete i have already started to read the diary in the magazine smart files before published by ricardo manapat but the magazine already closed shop i am really intrested to read it
# 23 September 2007 at 2:45 pm

justice league said:
MBW,
Your statement on American ferries seems somewhat eerily like the Bay of pigs.
# 23 September 2007 at 2:58 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
The Americans had apparently agreed to sell the vessels to FM and knew what they were supposed to be used for – transport troops and ammunitions to the island where some fighter jets were already based to provide for air support in anticipation of the the invasion.
But when the planned invasion hit the news, the US apparently withdrew from the agreement to sell the vessels to RP. It was Pres Carlos Garcia’s legal adviser who remained in the inner circle of FM who provided this story which was later corroborated by the said fighter pilot.
# 23 September 2007 at 3:08 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Some members of PMA Class 63, 64 and 66 whom I had the opportunity to interview had their own stories to tell.
# 23 September 2007 at 3:11 pm

pete said:
mlq3,
Salamat,
re: 1983 collapse, the US factor came to mind, bases issue, marcos cut it short to 25 yrs., gap with US set in, marcos playing/toying with the China hand,
at some point US dropped marcos and orchestrated to a degree the events, including the 1983 economic crisis, leading to EDSA.
# 23 September 2007 at 3:20 pm

pete said:
mlq3, mbw,
if marcos had succeeded, he, imelda and his cronies would have plundered Sabah too.
Ninoy saved Sabah from Marcos! Sabahenos should build a monument to Ninoy and read about what your blogging about now as part of their history. Ninoy could be saying ” the Sabahenos are worth dying for”
not only from marcos, but from every administration since and upto now,
Sabahenos are spared from GMA, thank Ninoy for that
Sabah is better off now
otherwise Filipino mindanaoans wouldn’t be fleeing, braving the high seas, be tnt, to work in sabah to escape from the poverty they blame on evil politicians that should be thrown to the sharks in high seas between sabah and the poor poor country marcos and his successors plundered.
if marcos had succeeded Sabahenos could have seceded long ago bringing the whole island of mindanao with them to be part of malaysia!!!
Ninoy saved Mindanao from being part of Malaysia but not from Marcos and his successors!
if a referendum is done now, no bidol, no garci can do enough to cheat the mindanaoans from being ceded to malaysia,
thank NINOY for squealing the truth, and pray that NERI does the same
# 23 September 2007 at 3:54 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Pete,
You may be right. But that’s not what the Bangsamoro people want today – to secede in order to be part of Malaysia.
They want an independent state composed of a vast portion of Mindanao at least together with Sabah which they claim is also colonized illegaly by Malaysia.
I thought I’d never say this: Today, I personally would be opposed for Sabah to be returned to the Philippines given the current government (there’s oil in Sabah) because of the risk of prosperous Sabah being turned into another Luzon, Visayas or Mindanao!
I’m confident that the people of Sabah, including the Filipinos living there who call themselves “locals” who don’t believe or aspire to be Malaysians at all will refuse to be part of the Philippines in its current political state.
However, at the time when the invasion of Sabah was being planned by Marcos, the province was totally underdeveloped, depressed and isolated.
But you are right – we do not deserve Sabah because we are as tribalistic as the fratricidal African tribes; we have no right to impose our corrupt Philippine way of life on Sabahns. If things worsen in the Philippines, the right thing to do is to give Mindanao its independence…
# 23 September 2007 at 4:23 pm

pete said:
mbw,
“If things worsen in the Philippines, the right thing to do is to give Mindanao its independence…”
the rigt thing to do is to make it better, if that could not be done, we don’t have to give mindanao its independence, they’ll just do it their way and there’s nothing we can do to keep them,
# 23 September 2007 at 4:56 pm

pete said:
mbw,
If Ninoy had lived to be president, he woild have been a good leader, we would have had prosperity that follows good governance,
we would have had a gov’t Mindanaoans would be happy with, Sabahnos would have preferred to be part of,
# 23 September 2007 at 5:11 pm

karl garcia said:
“Is the Jabidah massacre true?
I read somewhere that Ninoy had a Senate report that said it didn’t happen. What’s your take on this?”
If not,then what on earth led to the formation of the MNLF?
Then the squeeling account of MBW,which led to “project Merdeka” being aborted….made me further think..and now the peacemakers are giving land to the MILF.
But this is interesting,for me at least.
If that(Merdeka) did happen ,with it simultaneous to the vietnam war,what could have happened? sa tingin ko iiwan tayo sa ere ng US at hihingi tayo resbak sa iba na walang kinalaman sa vietnam war.
# 23 September 2007 at 5:23 pm

pete said:
mbw,
Can you tell your Sabahno friends about Ninoy, about a Filipino whose courage to tell the truth saved Sabahnos and Filipinos from a dictator?
# 23 September 2007 at 5:33 pm

karl garcia said:
“Is the Jabidah massacre true?
I read somewhere that Ninoy had a Senate report that said it didn’t happen. What’s your take on this?”
“In a series of articles smuggled from prison, and published in the Bangkok Post in 1973, Benigno Aquino wrote of the worsening rebellion by communist guerrillas in Luzon and by Muslims in the South seeking to avenge the execution of 25 of their “brothers.” The Bangkok Post printed a caveat against taking the clandestine Aquino Papers as “gospel truth” though in the main those warnings were about other aspects of the story. “In his clandestine writings, the Senator has been helped by his journalistic training and his accounts of various important events have a professional precision but the reader must keep in mind that he is a politician with great rhetorical skill,” the Bangkok Post wrote. ”
Paul F. Whitman
Corregidor Then and Now.
# 23 September 2007 at 6:02 pm

justice league said:
MBW,
Still it doesn’t explain the timeline which tells that the massacre happened before the expose.
So what does your pilot say about the Massacre, which interestingly enough is supposed to be celebrated by secessionists as “BangsaMoro Day”?
(But I have serious doubts about the benefit of an “independent” Mindanao to both Mindanao and the rest)
Also this from II.The Mindanao Conflict in Context:
“The Jabidah massacre was damaging to the psyche of the Muslims; the secular, religious, modern and backward sectors all began to reconsidered their future with the Philippines government. Jose Crisol, ‘then President Marcos’ highly regarded technocrat said that, the Civil Affairs Office bungled its job so badly that the Muslims practically lost its faith in the government, as well as inflicted deepest wounds in Tawi-Tawi and Sulu. Then Senator Benigno Aquino in a fact-finding mission found scores of families weeping inconsolably for their dead or missing folk. All over Sulu communities considered this event an intensely personal tragedy. Nur Misuari was among those who participated in the demonstrations in Manila before Congress and Malacanang. Quoted from T. J. S. George, pp. 122-8. “
# 23 September 2007 at 6:55 pm

jay said:
Kailangan magkaroon talaga ng pagbabago para maiwasan ang pagkawatawatak ng pilipinas, ang Pinoy kung saan-saan lupalop na napunta.
Corruption billion billion!!
Ayaw ko nang magbayad ng VAT!
VAT REVOLT!!! Welga, boycot, strike , kahit ano laban na,
kaysa mamatay tayo sa gutom!!!
# 23 September 2007 at 7:15 pm

andres said:
Sama ko diyan Jay,
text mo lang ko 01919-888888, fight..
# 23 September 2007 at 7:17 pm

joe gonzaga said:
VAT Revolt? How can you skip VAT, it’s consumption tax, anything you buy is taxed.
VAT revolt’s objective should for the VAT on power and oil and water be removed!
# 23 September 2007 at 7:33 pm

joe gonzaga said:
mbw,
Your suggestions about giving up Mindanao is seditious.
# 23 September 2007 at 7:37 pm

3rdson said:
anung mamatay sa gutom? nakakapinternet ka nga diba? siguradong may cell ka rin. anung gutom ang sinasabi mo?
# 23 September 2007 at 8:25 pm

Bencard said:
mbw, shades of bay of pigs debacle. whoever was that one who “spilled the beans” must have been motivated more by personal ambition, or “holier-than-thou” complex, than love of country. i think i have an idea of who the culprit was.
# 23 September 2007 at 8:58 pm

pete said:
bencard, mbw,
The Bay of Pigs fiasco continue to be discussed in some circles up to the present. US intel officer Landsdale whose name came up re MLQ’s post on Ramon Magsaysay was also mentioned as having involvement in the bay of pigs. If we can juxtapose the timelines, he was senior intel adviser at the Whitehouse at the time of Marcos’ botched up attempt at forceful claim of Sabah.
# 23 September 2007 at 9:16 pm

pete said:
mlq3, mbw, bencard
Quite interesting, The Philippines’ Claim to Sabah.
http://www.epilipinas.com/SabahClaim.htm
# 23 September 2007 at 9:30 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
pete,
my understanding is the malaysians accept the propriety claim of the heirs of the sultan of sulu, but do not accept that the sultan’s claims were inherited, in turn, by the republic of the philippines. the philippine claim wasn’t first made by macapagal, it was first expressed shortly after independence in 1946. macapagal, though, was the first to make it a centerpiece of policy in alliance with indonesia, as both the rp and indonesia were hoping to carve up territory as british malaya made the transition to independent malaysia.
it turns out something i’d written some time ago touches on the sabah question:
http://www.quezon.ph/?page_id=1516
# 23 September 2007 at 10:54 pm

peter said:
mlq3,
Maraming salamat,
There is a lasting solution to the problem of Mindanao that is waiting for the right leader to proclaim it.
# 24 September 2007 at 1:29 am

Bencard said:
shaman, what has “technical legalism” got to do with my comment re personal responsibility and discipline? my views on the matter is apolitical, and whether pgma is honest or not has no bearing on what i was trying to say. how come almost every time i make a comment, you always have to refer to what i do for a living, or to my support far gma. garo angot ka pa sa imong pagtaram.
dai na ngani noy kita magpersonalan. kung igwa kang problema sa sakuyang opinion, dian sa’na kita magargumento. dai man gabos na topic, igwang kinalaman kay gma o sakuyang propesion.
# 24 September 2007 at 2:46 am

Datu RSK said:
mlq3,
..my father is an ex General of MNLF..got shot on his left leg but pray to Allah he’s still able to walk after the incident…came here illegally but after how many years he manage to make contacts here in Sabah to become solid Malaysian citizen..he was admited in Sandakan Hospital and we stayed in 1 of the island (can’t recall the name of the island)but what i remembered is that island was full of heavy firearms…wow..looks fun to me that time..after few years then we moved to Kota Kinabalu (city of SABAH The Land Below The Wind)..this is where my parents started a new living after all the suffering during their war in the jungle…for further story about the war,the best person to tell u the whole story is my father..u should meet him in person..he knows about all the full details about the politics and the politician in that area…you’ll get shock and pist off with the politician and all the dirty games in that rich Island…of course it’s peaceful rite now but the dirty games still rolling …not scared to tell u that my uncle on my mother side is The Mayor of the city til now…but sadly i didn’t see any Development going on…why?is it because the fund from the government not enough?or maybe its stuck in the pocket?!..so confusing and complicated..no wonder my father never want to join politics…everytime we pay a visit there,he just monitor our own land,how to bring in investor and develope our 2000hectars..kinda hard ….
# 24 September 2007 at 2:59 am

karl garcia said:
MBW,
What about those ww2 medals of Macoy,no one dared to prove that it was fake. Any anecdotes for that?
_____
I know that mindanao statement was out of frustration,but let us not lose hope that this nation will be great,if not within this lifetime,siguro the generation after.
# 24 September 2007 at 9:52 am

supremo said:
“If not,then what on earth led to the formation of the MNLF? – Karl Garcia”
Maybe the MNLF were looking for some rallying point for the Muslims and they just grab the Jabidah massacre. Who knows!
Maybe you can dig up the Ninoy Senate report to help clarify things Karl. I’m planning to go to the National Library to do some research next time I’m in the Philippines.
# 24 September 2007 at 10:02 am

Francis said:
It is indeed very impressive to read the diaries of the late President and Dictator of the Philippine Republic President Ferdinand Marcos. He seem to be delusional at some point but mostly realistic in his depition of situations engulfing the Philippines. Maybe, if one looks at it in the bigger picture like the world situation at that time (the cold war and all…just read on Mao: The Unknown Story
by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday) then perhaps it was necessary to declare it. Besides, the Martial Law declararion I believe would have not been realised without the blessing of the Americans…..this somehow proves and in Marcos own admission that the Americans seems to be happy about it only proves that we the Philippines is a neocolony of America weather we like to accept it or not. I can’t seem to think that I should be proud of the Philippines in it’s present state, religion and culture since the true culture of the Philippines has long been gone and you can not even see it in Museums…(alright some of it are coming out slowly and thanks in part to the Ayala’s and other’s )
The diary does tell a different side of the story that neither Marcos nor Ninoy are heroes but paints a picture that where Marcos is in Malacanang he has the great responsibility like a father to his son to manage and discipline trouble-makers which is in this diaries depicted amonst other in the person of the anarchist Ninoy Aquino…(whose death will in the end be pin-pointed to the CIA on it’s low intensity conflict foreigh policy or strategy…).maybe our historians should be more objective in relation to the portrayal of Ninoy as a hero and Marcos as a villain because based on this diary and especially or specifically the events that lead to the revolution of Edsa, it is not at all the making of Aquino. Nor the Filipinos. I mean ….hey there were millions other in the provinces who did not participate compared to the ….ok call it a million at Edsa but the population of Manila at that time is more than that. Tough. Luck obviously was on the other side of the fence.
Sadly, the Catholic religion’s participation to this revolution destroys it’s credibility as a true revolution comes from the masses and not those who controls the minds of helpless and indoctrinated Filipinos. Not to say that there were free spiritual songs, free rosary beeds, free sandwhiches, free flowers and the holy spirit was there…..Oh la la…..And hey, I feel like puking in the thought that there is a Lady of Edsa? Really now…..This obviously portrays the Catholic religion and institution as more delusional than Marcos. I mean if there is the Lady of Edsa then god…Ferdinand Edralin Marcos must be truly the God…..
Also, in part and I hope Filipino’s especially historian will be more objective that it was not completely a revolution but a pseudo revolution and a coup d etat sponsored and in conspiracy with the Catholic religion, the American government and the few military personalities who have their own vested interest as proven by succedding events in the very recent history of the Philippines.
Come on now, mga kababayan, I always believe that you guys are matalino….so don’t limit yourself with censored story or history (of the Philippines) by those who controls and have the money and want to portray themselves as saviour. Thanks god the Cardinal (Jaime Sin) is Dead otherwise it’ll be a much worst Philippines.
# 24 September 2007 at 11:31 am

LuzViMinda said:
mlq3,
1)Have we ever had a president from Mindanao?
Nagakaroon na ba ng Presidente ng Pilipinas na taga Mindanao?
2)Was there a serious proposal for a system where there is an equittable sharing of governmental powers among Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao?
Nagkaroon na ba ng totohanang panukala para magkaroon na pantay-pantay na bahagian ng kapangyarihan sa pamahalaan ang Mindanao, Visayas at Luzon?
# 24 September 2007 at 12:08 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Bencard, dai man ako angot saimo. I’m not angry with you. It’s just that I feel that your being a lawyer gets in the way of your ability to make conclusions about a person’s (especially GMA’s) actuation, with just the circumstances and context around it, without being presented with evidence beyond reasonable doubt. In other words, my personal observation is that you seem to always demand for evidence beyond reasonable doubt for everything before you allow people to make conclusions. But that’s not the real world. I have made, and will always make, conclusions about a person’s action based on just the circumstances and context around it. And I’m sure you have done the same thing. That’s normal human behavior.
I described GMA as a cheat, a liar, and a thief above, (just to say that she cannot be the “honest leader” that you said we need) and I fully believe that she’s all three. I was afraid you’d again demand evidence beyond reasonable doubt, as if people were always inside a courtroom, hence, the “technical legalism”.
Now, to my question: Should we wait for each and every Filipino, all 80 or 87 million of them, to be imbued with “individual or personal discipline” on their own volition before we can see genuine progress in this country, as you imply in the paragraph that I quoted? I said that to do so would be like waiting for Godot – i.e., forever. Or do we only need a national leadership that has the moral authority, because it is itself moral and disciplined, to instill, or even just inspire, discipline in the people, both in the public and private sectors, by strict and consistent fair enforcement of the law? What I called “hot-stove” discipline – you touch a hot-stove, you get burnt; you do wrong, you get punished – everytime, all the time. That means impeaching a cheat, a liar, and a thief, all rolled into one, and throwing in a golfing fixer for good measure. That also includes dragging to court someone who barks, “Back off!”
# 24 September 2007 at 12:17 pm

TDC said:
Shaman of Malilipot:What kind of electorate do we have electing DIRTY,ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS as Presidents???
I suggest we name the Presidential ROGUE GALLERY in MALACANANG or MUNTINLUPA as :The “MARE ” Center for Presidential Scoundrels!
M:Marcos
A:Arroyo
R:Erap
E:Ramos
# 24 September 2007 at 12:36 pm

TDC said:
GLORIA to bring NERI to the US of A!.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view_article.php?article_id=90327
Typical Gloria tactic:flight is the evidence of guilt!
# 24 September 2007 at 12:39 pm

TDC said:
Mrs Gloria Pidal is really incredible! (orIncorrugible, Imperfect, Irrepressible, Intoxicate, Immensely Irritating, Ingratiating, and a bunch of other “I” words…
# 24 September 2007 at 12:45 pm

justice league said:
Francis,
Primitivo Mijares used to serve under ex-pres. Marcos.
He wrote “Conjugal Dictatorship” while Marcos was still in power. You might find the book interesting if you can get a hold of one.
# 24 September 2007 at 1:05 pm

justice in waiting said:
shaman, my man i fully agree with your “hot-stove discipline”, as for initial indoctrination of the whole masses. Laws are already in the book and all needed is impartial enforcement of them to all and one. It is a habit forming passing thru generations as maybe bencard should realized that in the good old USA before the ‘disciplined society’ as they have now (with regards to the rule of law) it was once a wild, wild west where the hot-stove discipline was in abundance. you do the crime, you hang by the old oak tree. Or drink and drive and lose your license and go to jail or even insult people for their opinions could land you in the civil courts.
As to the legal technicalities of the so-called weight of evidence, it is remedied that if anyone of us, maliciously and without any shred of evidence or allegations as we read and opined from the media or from our own observation and put forward our own objective or subjective opinions on the matter, then the injured party or parties can always get relief by going to the courts and file their own evidence as to their personal reputation and honor being violated. that is the rule of the law that even non-lawyer knows…
# 24 September 2007 at 1:30 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
TDC, the tragedy for the electorate is that, more often than not, it is presented with a choice among evils, the best scenario being the election of the lesser evil, but evil still. Personally, when faced with such a choice, I abstain. Sometimes, even the electorate’s choice does not get to win.
It’s more about the rotten ways the whole system is implemented, actually – the system of choosing the candidates, the system of counting the votes, the system of rendering justice just in case the electorate chooses someone who turns out to be a scoundrel.
The impeachment process is in the Constitution precisely because of the possibility that the electorate might choose a latter-day scoundrel. The Ombudsman is there supposedly to punish venalities by public officials. You know, like the reason why there is an eraser at the other end of a pencil. The electorate can make mistakes. But, thing is, the erasers have been turned into wood.
# 24 September 2007 at 1:39 pm

Francis said:
justice league:
Thanks a lot for the referral to the book “Conjugal Dictatorship” and for your information I do have it and read it from cover to cover. However, I have read other books as well on the Marcos issue both for and against the man. So yeah, I really cannot with all objectivity rely on that book (Conjugal Dictatorship) alone as perhaps with all Primitivo Mijares good intention (if that was the case…though it does not seem to be 100%)as my basis for judging Marcos or history of the Philippines in that era because that book was written with smearing the man and lost it’s objectivity.
Please don’t get me wrong though that the book manage to convince me too of the evil or should I say geniusness of Marcos having amased such wealth and sadly the death and disappearance of radicals or suspected of being one. Amazing really if I may be allowed to say so. But we are looking at the smaller picture here. We should look at the reason why Marcos was allowed to do this. Again, I am going back to the issue of the Philippines being a neo-colony of America and one that is still looking for it’s own identity. Hello….the Philippines is named after King Philip of Spain after all. Is it not about time to change the name of the Philippines perhaps. And if you going to ask me I will call it the Francispines..alright it may sound delusional and religious but hey allow me to indulge at least in writing as it will never ever happen anyway. I will leave that re-naming of the Philippines to the experts(anthropologist, historians, Americans perhaps?, the Vatican maybe….it’ll be called Jesuspines then oh la la maybe the gods forbid…and so on and so fourth)Oh well…
Yes, America allowed it to happen for their own objective and that is capitalism and hold of the region in the name of Democracy and in short….American interest. Surely, you probably know more than I do of what am talking about. And let’s not forget the real danger of deluded Communist…in the like of Ninoy and company who double crossing the republic…shame coz Communism was written and conceived with all the good intention by a man who seems to have not work a day in his life at all he he he…the irony of it all really. In theory I may admit having read the manifesto that Communism is good but realistically it seems to be not applicable to any society really. More than anything, I think Dictatorship can be allowed if the end result is what happened to the majority (am talking about Peace and Order, Discipline, etc) of the Philippines population at that time rather than the few who wants to be in power and whose ideas and interest being forced into the republic. Amen for now….and opinion ko lang po yan….Salamat….any more books perhaps you want to refer to me? Hopefully one that I have not read yet…surely your not going to refer me to the book called Americas Boy by James Hamilton Patterson…
P.S. I do hope you also have read the book by Marcos called Todays Revolution~:Democracy….
# 24 September 2007 at 1:54 pm

Beancurd said:
Bencard,
Do not take Shaman’s comment personally. It is not about you, it is about your arguments.
You see Marcos as a crook even though he was never convicted as a crook, yet you seem not to apply the same to the present squatter in malacanang. All right, no one seems to accuse gloria of personally pocketing some money in all the controversies in her administration although so much talk abound regarding her husband. Do you not think, her being the wife of a husband who, granting for the sake of argument that there is unassailable evidence to back it up, has pocketed public or private money, that she would also profit from the conjugal fruits of the ill gotten variety? And do you not think that the ill gotten variety of the conjugal fruit would not be possible if not for her position in the government?
An aram ko sa bikol, kan a manok dai ipinagi-bulang sa ayam. An bulang para sa mga manok, an ayam, sumsuman. Sa pangikita niyamo, si marcos ni si gloria, parehong manok.
This is a case of what is sauce for the goose as sauce for the gander. This is not beauty in the eyes of the beholder.
# 24 September 2007 at 2:01 pm

Beancurd said:
By the way, in 2001 Edsa II, the choice was, presumably, between the devil and the deep blue sea. The past six years has shown that it was a leap from the deep blue sea to the devil aided wolves in sheep’s clothing. Now, with talk of erap being extended and accepting pardon, that is the devil conquering the deep blue sea.
# 24 September 2007 at 2:09 pm

kookoomonster said:
hi mlq3,
i have a question for you…who do you think was most likely be ninoy aquino’s killer? was it imelda marcos? gen. ver? fidel ramos? the CIA? or DANDING COJUANCO????
# 24 September 2007 at 2:18 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
kookoo, i’ll put it this way. first, i dont know why people say pres. marcos would never have had nony killed. second, whether his underlings ordered it, command responsibility lies with the president.
# 24 September 2007 at 2:23 pm

Beancurd said:
Francis, You seem to have read a lot. Do you mind if I ask where you came from? What is your province? The thing is, our beliefs are most of the times clouded by our own experiences and, at times, by what we have read. A thief is most of the time the best father, brother, sister, daugther or son to his or her relation and their relations would most vehemently deny any accusation against their benefactors. That applies to Luli too and the same can be said of most ilocanos or warays in relation to the marcoses. The challenge is whether we can be like Joey de Venecia who can risk the political career of his father and criminal prosecution for himself just to tell what to him is truth.
As for dictatorship being allowable depending on what happens to the majority, that would depend on in what condition the majority are in. If they are miserable, poor, malnourished, then killing them en masse by a dictator would certainly deliver them from misery, poverty and poor health. Would that be preferable and would the people be thankful for it? If that is the extreme, are you willing to be the guinea pig? Perhaps, some government official can be convinced to use a mailed fist policy to the inhabitants of a remote island which can be made a place for volunteers.
# 24 September 2007 at 2:38 pm

Francis said:
Beancurd,
How eloquent and very respectable opinion of course of yours….however, I’d much prefer to have a clouded (if that’s how you percieved it of course as you have said yourself that “our (or should I say yours) are most of the times clouded by” etc…..)opinion on the issue of who is right and who is wrong in the episode that is the Marcos presidency/diary rather than generalised on a particular ethnic group (i.e ilocanos or warays)as the artist trying to paint the artwork so to speak. I am not saying of course that Marcos is a saint or the greatest Filipino or even the worst Filipino ever….what am saying is that their are circumstances why such event was allowed to occur and yes opinions are clouded by the limitation or one-sidedness of opinion…(hence personally I make a point to read both side of the coin)…. and belife system….surely that applies to your eloquence too….
I, of course do hope that your eloquence comes with statistic as well on the issue of poverty, health, etc….Records of the Philippines at that time and to the present somehow tells me that the Philippines was better off at that time statistically. Guinea pig? I think weather we admit or not the Philippines is still is a guenea pig in a very subtle way of the Americans….and this is the real issue really why it is still not moving on…take for example the case of Erap and the illegitimate President Gloria…
Thing is the Philippines in able to progress and move forward should really have to look after itself….impossible dream perhaps with the cancerous society and especially politicians the Philippines have…and the ever present American influence….Goodluck to the Philippines….surely Jose Rizal won’t be amused either….
# 24 September 2007 at 3:08 pm

karl garcia said:
supremo,
maaring nagyari at sa numero lang nagkatalo..me nagsabi 20, me nagsabi 25,me nagsabi 28.
The MNLF said 200 people were killed then later fed to the sharks.
the bottomline is it was enough to be more than a rallying point, for it created a war that is still on going.
# 24 September 2007 at 3:08 pm

karl garcia said:
Supremo,
From Closer than Brothers..pp 127
“On March 21, a frontn page report in the Manila Times charged that the military establishment had a secret training camp-”so secret high defense officials don’t even know of its existence”-and this camp was training “armed infiltrators ansd saboteurs.
Marcos was sensitive to the controversy and named -a top echelon investigative panel-Chief of Staff Velasco,his deputy general manuel yan,and Army commander Romeo Espino. On March 22, only days after the incident broke,the panel delivered a report that appears,in light of information, to be a cover up.
page 128 same book.
The opposition’s leader,Senator Benigno “Ninoy” Aquino, charged that Operation Merdeka was cover for a “secret strike force under the president’s personal command,to form shock troops of his cherished garrison state.
……After a close study,Senator Ninoy aquino charged that “there was a secret army, so secret even the chief of staff had been bypassed in its planning.”
# 24 September 2007 at 3:27 pm

ronin said:
Manolo:
For the entry for January 25, 1971, Marcos wrote that ‘the congressional opening and State of the Nation address were peaceful.”
But isn’t it that shortly after he delivered the SONA at the old Congress building, Marcos and Imelda were greeted by protesting students at the steps of the building? If I’m not mistaken, an effigy of a crocodile was even thrown at them, with bodyguards hurriedly escorting them to their vehicles.
# 24 September 2007 at 3:46 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
ronin, no, that was the SONA of 1970.
# 24 September 2007 at 3:57 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Karl,
Re: “What about those ww2 medals of Macoy,no one dared to prove that it was fake. Any anecdotes for that?”
I think Sen Lorenzo Tanada, at one point or the other, said that Macoy did exagerate about the number of medals he got.
Gen Castaneda (he was an adc or a military asst to a pres but can’t remember which one) said that one or two could be genuine but apart from that, not even Gen Gacis (class 54) could say anything about them.)
Max Soliven wrote extensively about them in the late 60s as being fake but Max was a Macapagal boy even then and was close to Ninoy Aquino too so his opinion might have been ‘clouded’ – sadly, no further anecdotes.
Only US records, if any exist still, could shed light into the real score.
# 24 September 2007 at 4:10 pm

ronin said:
Ah, OK. Thanks!
Another question: Did Marcos really form a secret military (or PC) unit to act as agents provacateur by conducting bombings (and other destalization attempts) during the countdown to Martial Law and then blame such acts on the communists?
# 24 September 2007 at 4:12 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Re: “Can you tell your Sabahno friends about Ninoy, about a Filipino whose courage to tell the truth saved Sabahnos and Filipinos from a dictator?”
No.
# 24 September 2007 at 4:14 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Re: “Your suggestions about giving up Mindanao is seditious.”
Why is that?
# 24 September 2007 at 4:15 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Mabalos, Beancurd, for reinforcing my comments.
I couldn’t help laughing because in Bahasa Indonesia, ayam = manok.
# 24 September 2007 at 4:16 pm

Beancurd said:
Francis, to say that Ninoy was as much a product of Marcos, that i think cannot be denied. to say however, that marcos was no villain as ninoy was no hero, well, the latter is debatable, but the former? you may want to ask anyone from our generation from bicol what they felt during marital law when they see members of the military or even only when the sun sets in the afternoon. To stay in the house because it is getting dark and the dogs of marcos are about to go prowling notwithstanding your desire to play patintero in the moonlight, what price can you place to that? It is not about eloquence, it is about real experiences of real people.
Logic is good, statistics even better, but there is no substitute for experience. and while the first two can be made to lie, the latter cannot. and regardless of whether we are still under the clutches of the eagle from the west, one cannot deny the active role politicians in this country play that has a direct bearing on the lives of ordinary mortals like us. and those roles, those actions, we can judge, whether good, bad, heroic or treasonous.
# 24 September 2007 at 5:02 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Karl,
“……After a close study,Senator Ninoy aquino charged that “there was a secret army, so secret even the chief of staff had been bypassed in its planning.””
Many of the generals could have been bypassed in the planning of a so-called “secret army” including the chief of staff, formally speaking – and it’s plausible especially if you have generals in the likes of Gen Ugalde – but it’s unlikely that CSAFP didn’t have an inkling at all that there was a military group being trained patterned after very special forces like the British SAS or La Légion Etrangère, groups which could have produced an image of a dreaded “secret army” to the non-military.
# 24 September 2007 at 5:33 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Agree with Beancurd.
# 24 September 2007 at 5:35 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Re: secret army thinggy
This might be a good parallel as any:
When Volt Gazmin became PSG chief to Pres Cory, he formed a secret elite group within the PSG that was trained by the British SAS. Even the British Embassy was formally bypassed and gobsmacking as it may sound, follow on the British DAs (who came in service at the UK Embassy after the elite group had been trained) absolutely had NO INKLING, no record that during Pres Cory’s time the SAS had trained an elite group within the PSG.
Now, the staff of generals at AFP GHQ wasn’t even in the know.
# 24 September 2007 at 5:41 pm

karl garcia said:
Mbw,
yes, about bypassing the higher ups is as common as the common cold.
maybe that is why they are called special forces.
At least, in this case,as long as the highest of the ups is not bypassed might be the case.
But in some cases like the one you mentioned about PSG trained by the brits, I guesss that time the highest of the higher ups was bypassed.
# 24 September 2007 at 7:04 pm

karl garcia said:
Mbw,
Many thanks for reply re:medals
# 24 September 2007 at 7:10 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Karl,
Actually I asked FVR when he was already retired if he knew that Gazmin had a “secret” elite group trained by the SAS, he feigned or jokingly commented “But that’s a secret!”
Sabay, wink wink… I shouldn’t have asked because I’m pretty certain he knew!
# 24 September 2007 at 7:25 pm

Manila Bay Watch said:
Mlq3,
Re your comment September 23rd, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Agree that malaysians accept the propriety claim of the heirs of the sultan of sulu, but do not accept that the sultan’s claims were inherited, in turn, by the republic of the philippines.
As to dates when the Philippines first presented their claim, a Paul A Rodell wrote in his book, Terrorism and Violence in Southeast Asia: Transnational Challenges to States that a claim had been made as early as 1922 which appears to be the basis of Pres DM’s renewed claim in 1962.
# 24 September 2007 at 7:44 pm

Bencard said:
shaman & beancurd, here we go again with this never-ending debate like an abs-cbn unresolvable teleserye. let me try to put it this way. suppose you are president and treasurer respectively, of your local 4-h club in legaspi. you engages in fund-raising drive to put up a swine-feeding facility in your district, with the help of your spouses. you are able to raise i million pesos with substantial contributions from mlq3 and cvj, among others. some bitter rivals who covet your positions accuse your wives of skimming the funds and using the alleged ill-gotten proceeds to augment your conjugal assets. 9 out 10 members of your club swear that the allegations are true but they have nothing else to offer by way of proof.
somehow you and your wives get indicted but since the “rule of law” and the justice system work, you are absolved and are able to sue the false accusers for defamation. what do you say to that?
by the way, can you two (as, by your words, haters of corruption) give me your opinion on the seemingly certain ABSOLUTE pardon of estrada? i posted a comment early on this thread about the subject but was met by a deafening silence from the brave champions against corruption in this blog.
# 24 September 2007 at 9:31 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
my view is it’s more important that he return the money than be kept in jail.
i also believe if he believes he’s really innocent, he should fight it out in the supreme court.
an absolute pardon is the worst of all worlds. he keeps the money, the judgment is never finalized, no one believes the whole thing wasn’t political, period.
i’d have been open to an amnesty following the precedent of laurel, but the weird evolution in the thinking of the courts apparently makes that impossible to duplicate, unless fr. bernas’ advice is taken.
# 24 September 2007 at 10:05 pm

justice league said:
Francis,
Well, to whom is America named after anyway? The Americans seem to delight calling themselves Americans.
And I wouldn’t know that much of communism.
And I seldom purchase these kind of books so I have not been fortunate to have read either of yours. I would have pointed you to “Some are smarter than others” but I only scanned it as it wasn’t mine. But having read The Daily Express day in day out and other media source during the Martial law years, I’ve had a glimpse of the Marcos side already.
# 24 September 2007 at 10:05 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Bencard,
Wrong parallelism. In the case of our 4-H club, the rule of law was allowed to work. We willingly submitted ourselves to trial because we knew we were innocent. In the case of GMA, she did everything, including buying off the congressmen with the people’s money, to frustrate the impeachment process because she knows she is guilty. That, dear Bencard, is the great difference.
As to Estrada, he has been found guilty and the wheels of justice should be allowed to turn to its final conclusion – SC ruling with finality. Absolute pardon should be out of the question. But who floated the idea of pardon, in the first place? Your illegitimate President who is afraid of the rule of law. To establish a precedent? So when her own time comes, she can expect to be pardoned, too?
# 24 September 2007 at 10:43 pm

Bencard said:
mlq3, a crime is a crime is a crime… the law punishes the guilty without fear or favor. no one is above the law and every one must be treated EQUALLY before the law. law means for something only when enforced – we call that justice. justice requires retribution when warranted. otherwise its an empty, hollow concept. the consequence of absence of law and justice are anarchy and chaos.
we must treat corruption seriously and remove politics from it. a court of law finds guilt on the basis of evidence admitted according to pre-set rules. defense lawyers see that their client is protected according to the letter and spirit of the law. whether or not the entire people of the philippines, except me, believe estrada’s conviction was “political”, does not justify creating an unjust “exemption” from retribution.
i often disagree with you but i cannot believe that you would be an advocate for a double standard of justice.
# 24 September 2007 at 10:57 pm

Francis said:
Beancurd,
Thanks again, I would like somehow to clarify that it is not my intention to put away the experience of those people affected during the reign of the dictatorship from the fact that it is unacceptable. If anything, I’d like to re-direct if that is all possible given the mentallity some of our suppossed to be historians to the fact that there is two sides of the story and that am not necessarilly impressed with Philippines history (i.e Marcos portrayal, Edsa, etc…)from Spanish arrival to the present…right I could be wrong but is there a textbook today used in Philippine schools portraying the actual fact of the Edsa 1, to the power grab of Edsa 2, to the illegitimacy of the present occupant of that rotten Palace….and let us not forget the alleged responsibility of Emilio Aguinaldo to the murder of the real and really the first but unrecognised President of the Revolutionary Republic of the Philippens President Andres Bonifacio….(merroring the Republic of Irelands own history to be honest) did anybody dare to say in textbook the non-believer in God and the Catholic institution towards the end of his life Jose Rizal….Well, materials such as the diary of Marcos weather it’s delusional or utter lie in the perception of few still tells us that history should be written in a more objective way rather than the experience of a province such as you mentioned. I like to believe that I feel for you having experience poverty myself in my childhood….(sorry to disappoint anyone but no…..no…..no…. Marcos was not a benefactor to me or my family). Additionally, one does not write of history on personal experience alone, otherwise , what is the point of statistical and scientific data, and to add to that one cannot write that era of the dictatorship without looking at the bigger picture….
Yes, furthermore, is it indeed very debatable weather Ninoy is a hero and Marcos is a villain….well am looking forward for the time when the CIA archive on the issue of Ninoy, communist in the Philippines and the Marcoses come to see the light of day…..and very much looking forward to see what Joma Sison will say in his memoirs…(surely he knows a lot about Ninoy and Marcos being on the recieving end of the Chinese communism….)….let’s not forget the memoirs of Imelda Marcos and Cory Aquino and all those involve and time will tell who is telling a lie till the end of their existence on earth……my experience after Edsa 1 was completely indoctrination from all media about the evil that Marcos era was….(as a complete opposite to the indoctrination of my growings years under Marcos era….but thanks heavens I believe I can see the event now in a more objective way….thanks to objectivity I now stop thinking that the only religion the world should have is Catholism…then if that is the case I would promote another Catholic inquisition similar to that jihad of the Muslims…..fundamentalism really ……but not being objective….coming out of that indoctrination I have found out the other side of that era….and it’s not all stinking like how it was portrayed day in and day out post Edsa…..am not saying either that it does not stink….objectivity is what am talking about…..and yes I don’t want to end this without also mentioning the real participation of Danding to the murder of Ninoy, goodness….I wish am still alive by then to read all this liers and players to shed a tiny-winy truth from that episode….at least Marcos is still talking from his death and wow….what a genious indeed….he outsmarted me and the rest of the population….that is in my own opinion in the league of Jesus Christ….the greatest politician of all time…..Opinyon lang po…..you are entitled to your own….now guys read on this topic on both sides and let not subjectivity cloud our judgement on the era that is the dictatorship….and please am not advocating it unless am the one in power (now that is a joke so literalist f..k..f)he he he
P.S. will it disappoint justice league if I say that I also have read that book “Some are Smarter than Others”? Shame it is back home in my mum’s house in Philippines. I wish I can re-read them again for arguments sake….and yes America…..are in fact Europeans…..I mean hello let’s call on Columbus….and reading Communism as an ideology is just but an additional knowledge the same way as reading and learning American constitution so that one can come up with a well informed and not a one sided-argument
# 24 September 2007 at 11:11 pm

Bencard said:
shaman, you don’t understand. a finding of no “probable cause” is part of the rule of law. you have no right, nor competence, to second guess congress, as a body, as to the “truth”. in the 4-h club hypothetical, you did not submit voluntarily to the rule of law, or “allowed (it) to work” until you were acquitted. you and beancurd and your spouses were indicted and there was absolutely nothing you could do about it except either to hire good defense lawyers, or run to the mountains and join the npa. weren’t you glad the system worked?
i was only asking you if you agree to pardon estrada, not who floated the idea first (which i think you and i will never know by ourselves).
# 24 September 2007 at 11:16 pm

Francis said:
By the way, am not for pardon of any kind for Erap…let him prove himself in court be it a Kangaroo or not….the Supreme Court of the Philippines is not the end of it anyway, (and please who believes in the SC nowadays when all the justices need to do is open a book called The Bible and eureka they got the only correct decision….laughable really…no wonder we are called the Banana citizen of the Banana Republic…) because surely if Erap is really innocent then their is the U.N and the international court which can be more objective than the Kangaroos of the Banana courtroom….
So No To The Pardon of Any Kind for ERAP……let him prove himself in court….after all it seems the Filipino’s surveys after surveys already acquitted him of his guilt so keep on the fight if he is really innocent….and till then I will give him the benefit of the doubt
# 24 September 2007 at 11:19 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
bencard, a crime is a crime but there are also mitigating circumstances that can affect the penalty applied. or even the verdict itself. and the law doesn’t apply in a vacuum, which is why the law provides for pardon and amnesty.
again, you assume a process characterized by integrity. assuming as you do, that the process is marked by integrity, still, at the end of the process -the verdict and the sentencing- the authorities are given the latitude to take public interest into consideration.
in our past, there was roxas’s amnesty of laurel et al. in the more recent past, there was the trial and conviction of two presidents of south korea -and the campaign vow by kim dae jung, a victim of those generals-turned-president, to pardon them if he was elected. which he did.
justice can be served by the verdict itself: it may have mattered less to the south koreans that two ex presidents were rotting in jail, and more that two ex presidents had been disgraced by being convicted.
i think estrada is maneuvering for a pardon precisely to prevent the verdict from becoming final and executory. there is a difference between accepting a pardon/amnesty while a case is on appeal, and accepting the pardon/amnesty after all doubts as to the conviction have been erased by the verdict being upheld by the supreme court.
when estrada’s trial seemed headed for limbo because the president preferred the trial dragging on to having to deal with a verdict, i said estrada should run for office and let the people judge. because the people’s judgement is important. even after amnesty, etc. laurel ran for office to vindicate his name. the public still has a choice to elect him or not: it’s interesting to me that besides the wierd legal theories of his lawyers, perhaps estrada sensed he couldn’t trust the electorate to absolve him, symbolically at least, by electing him. maybe he knew he’d actually lose.
when a respected legal mind like fr. bernas can argue, as he did, that estrada, asa former president, is in a class of his own, the argument wasn’t for estrada not to face the music but that logically and sensibly, his case couldn’t be equated with a kutsero. deprivation of freedom is a heavy penalty whether in a spartan jail cell in muntinlupa or a retirement estate. you’re still a prisoner even with the trappings of luxury.
and like i said in my posts on the issue, perhaps there is wisdom in the view propounded by members of academe that our society’s concept of justice is restitution and not retribution. the fruits of corruption should be taken away, not enjoyed. and those who betray public trust should face disqualification from public office. both are to my mind even greater deterrents to future wrongdoing than whatever satisfaction’s to be gained from throwing someone in a jail cell which only makes a martyr out of them.
and i still think that if estrada had been left to his own devices after edsa dos, and left to face years of going back and forth to court to face trial, but otherwise had remained at liberty and unmolested, he would have become irrelevant very quickly. it’s the fundamentalist approach to the law that nearly brought down the government in may 2001 and has made estrada’s conviction far less significant than it could have been.
# 24 September 2007 at 11:41 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Oh, Bencard, I fully understand.
At any rate, I would have been very willing to submit myself to the court just to prove my innocence. Speaking of probable cause, there’s plenty of it in the case of GMA, but her supporters in Congress, fuelled by pork barrel bribery, demanded evidence beyond reasonable doubt to establish probable cause. This demand was publicly aired by Prospero Nograles. Machinations of a guilty person.
If you still don’t know it, Ronnie Puno has been meeting with Erap to arraqnge the pardon.
# 24 September 2007 at 11:44 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
francis, are you advocating objectivity or relativism?
# 24 September 2007 at 11:45 pm

Francis said:
Pete,
Hi…allow me to borrow your argument as it is exactly what I meant by looking at the bigger picture in the case of writing the history for or against the Marcoses….and the neo-colonialism of the Philippines….
In Pete’s own words “re: 1983 collapse, the US factor came to mind, bases issue, marcos cut it short to 25 yrs., gap with US set in, marcos playing/toying with the China hand, ” this obviously angers our Uncle Sam…..poor Erap did not extend the US bases issue and my Uncle Sam never ever ever EVER forgets…..bang….history repeats itself because the Bonifacio’s has long been dead and the Aguinaldo’s triumph….
And then Pete continues “at some point US dropped marcos and orchestrated to a degree the events, including the 1983 economic crisis, leading to EDSA.” and very well said and this has been duplicated by the business group of that tiny republic called Makati, the Catholic institution, the civil (or should I say EVIL) society, not to mention the military and yes the Communist too….oh la la in controlling the economic collapse of Manila during the time of Erap….then voila the Bible was opened and their come Zion ressurected in biblical proportion and the Philippine society becomes just like the bible chapters day in and day out coz of belief system not even original in concept (ok read on the practises of the Pagan and the religion of Greece and Egypt pre Christian era)….right looking at all of this I can’t really believe that the guilty verdict on Erap is believable in all honesty….but then again…don’t get me wrong…I don;t think either that Erap is clean….
One of those book written against the dictator which one I do not remember …but tells us that when one steal a bread then he goes to jail but steal billions and you’ll be respected…..oh well…..there you are…the diary and the dictator is not just to be told on the side of the Lopezes or Aquinos….it has to be look at and deciphered in all corners and that includes this brilliant and really wonderful diary of Marcos….I won’t be surprised if one day someone will say that this was his own making and it is a joke and that the diary does not exist….well I almost believed that Bongbong Marcos is not what he claims to be…..just ask the sons of Martial law…..with all due respect…
# 24 September 2007 at 11:50 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
By the way, Bencard, I told you who started all this pardon business because I wanted to let you know what kind of a person GMA is. And I don’t need your permission to say what I want to say.
# 25 September 2007 at 12:26 am

Francis said:
CVJ,
Just gonna say I agree on this “Whether or not the ‘voice of the people is the voice of God’ has the same basis in reality as debating whether Voltes V or Mazinger Z is more powerful. Why are we still relying on mythologies in use during the 9th century as the basis for running 21st century society? The choice is not on who has God’s voice or blessing. Even Marcos (as shown above) and Arroyo have claimed a mandate from God. The real question is whether we want government that follows the will of the few, the many or everyone. True democracy is the rule of all by all, something that our homegrown elitists won’t allow.”
And if I may add and you don’t have to agree but I believe that it is time for the Catholic institution to stop meddling in politics and governance….in fact it is also time now for them to start paying taxis like the rest of the population…that is equal law for all and that is the true essence of democracy….
Oh my god….the Lord told me that the Filipino’s should put me in Malacanang as the next President….then if you believe that then I am just another Cory, Marcos, Ramos, Erap and the God’s favorite Gloria…hallelua
Besides the brand name that is CATHOLISM should shut up if they don’t want to pay taxes since they already live a very lavish lifestyle through the contribution of the poor who remains poor forever coz they take refuge in their faith rather than help themselves coz indoctrinated as they are they were told that they will go to hell if they don’t believe….question is “they are actually in hell without even knowing it” It is a personal opinion of course and do respect that….hang on ZTE NBN calling me….ooopppsss it’s the dead Cardinal on the other end…be right back….ooopppsss another call….its GOD
# 25 September 2007 at 12:27 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
And finally, Bencard, your hatred for Erap is matched only by your love for Gloria.
I’m going to bed. See you tomorrow.
# 25 September 2007 at 12:32 am

Francis said:
mlq3,
hi…as to your question….here’s what i can say
objectivity
noun
judgment based on observable phenomena and uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices
relativism
The doctrine that no ideas or beliefs are universally true but that all are, instead, “relative” — that is, their validity depends on the circumstances in which they are applied.
well….your entitled to your own opinion….and I like reading them….coz the more I learn the less I know….so I won’t mind if you tell me what you think…
Here is a blog I though I could easily have said too , hence am borrowing it for all to read…..by Erin Caldwell
“In my wise old age (of 22 years ), I’ve come to the realization that the more I learn, the less I know. Actually, I’ve been coming around to this idea for several years. I just thought I’d write about it today.
I’ve always been one to think big, see things on a larger scale, think outside the box, etc., and I’ve always had a firm grasp on the idea that there’s a lot out there that’s bigger than me. My mom calls it my “Big World” perspective. Being from a small town where your grandfather was mayor for 20 years of your life, so everyone knew who you were from the day you were born — it’s very easy to slip into a frame of mind that’s very … well … small. But me? I had big dreams, big ideas and a HUGE curiosity. All that is still with me today. Although, I haven’t tried to take apart a stove since I was eight, and it only takes one try to learn that sprinkling cold water on a hot light bulb makes it explode. And that same curiosity that was causing my parents headaches when I was little is what drives me to read, explore, research and question.
The mind-boggling thing I’ve come to discover, however, is that with each new piece of information I encounter, it just opens my eyes even more to how enormous and jam-packed with information the universe is. For example, let’s say I read an article about a new snowshoe created by an Arctic explorer. The article mentions the explorer by name and briefly references a recent expedition. So I go in search of more information on that recent expedition. Apparently, it uncovered some ancient artifacts that indicate a different form of human habitation than ever seen before. (History is definitely my weakness.) So then, to really understand what this means, I decide to research … “Well, why is this so special? How is it so different from past discoveries?” After going through several more articles, I come to find out that this particular explorer’s findings are part of a study at Harvard to parallel the living habits of these ancient humans to some of the social problems of today. And THEN, I decide to go off on a tangent researching social issues. I could spend hours on one train of thought that starts with a snowshoe and ends up reading about current legislation for education reform. And oddly enough, when I finish filling my brain with all this new knowledge … never do I have a better sense of “Wow, there’s so much out there I didn’t even get to read today.” So the more I learn, the more I realize how much more I have left to learn.
Also, the more I learn, the more my perspective broadens — and instead of just my own way of viewing an issue, I’m now aware of valid points on all sides. Some things that I thought I KNEW, after looking into it a little more, I realize that I should do even more research before I can even begin to think I really know “how it is.” Therefore, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I really KNOW.
So sometimes, you think you know. But you really don’t know that what you think you know isn’t really what you know, it’s only what you think you know you know.”
And so it goes….thanks mlq3, you made me read some more though….
# 25 September 2007 at 12:59 am

Bencard said:
mlq3, i don’t want to prolong this debate unnecessarily but do you really think it is in the “best interest” of society not to exact the retribution on corruption as the law prescribes? every body seems to be paying lip service against corruption but when his/her enemies are involved, he becomes serious and demand no less than their heads. yet when a favored one is the proven culprit, they look the other way and employ all sorts of platitudes to prevent him from paying off his debt to society.
with due respect to fr. bernas, i don’t believe it’s right justice to treat a thieving kutsero different from a plundering president (in terms of meting out the prescribed punishment for their crimes). equality before the law is a basic precept in an ordered society, otherwise the whole justice system will not work.
true, in crimes punishable under the penal code, there are cicumstances affecting the sentence ultimately imposed. in the particular estrada case, not only that the special statute is explicit as to the punishment to be imposed (death, until it was abolished) but that no mitigating or
extenuating circumstance has been found by the court.
true also that a president has the discretion to grant pardon or amnesty and whether or not its exercise is legal, the questions remain: is it for the best interest of the nation? is the threat of continuing “destabilization” by a disgruntled mob, or popularity of the convict, enough to defeat the ends of justice and thereby render the one, single, victory against corruption in highest places of the government, illusory? how hypocrite can one get?
btw, i’m a nobody, but in the very remote possibility that gma, or her spouse, is ever convicted of plunder after her term, i will oppose, as i am opposing now with respect to estrada, any attempt to pardon her/them. only when convicted wrongdoers are made to suffer the consequences of their venality, can we even begin to make a dent on the endemic corruption in our society.
# 25 September 2007 at 1:07 am

mlq3 (author) said:
bencard, i think we can agree on something:
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view_article.php?article_id=90456
that’s just wrong. any way you slice or dice it, it’s wrong. you and i might differ on whether after being pardoned and giving up the loot, he should then go home. but i think you and i will agree he can’t be pardoned and keep the loot. and avoid a final verdict, to boot.
and you and i might even agree a man convinced of his innocence would fight it out to the bitter end in court, and only then, if beaten with finality, ponder accepting pardon.
# 25 September 2007 at 2:11 am

Bencard said:
mlq3. if the report was true, then ronaldo puno would be the worst trojan horse of the gma administration. he should fire him, pronto and disown the deal. remember what happened to the most visible advocate of estrada pardon in gma’s cabinet? he not only lost his job, he was rejected by the followers of the man he was trying to pander to. but puno is of a different breed altogether. it never ceases to amaze me how he could be in the inner sanctum of gma’s presidency, considering his personal and political history.
# 25 September 2007 at 2:38 am

Bencard said:
shaman, believe me, you need no permission from me to say anything you want. you will say it anyway, in any event, and there is nothing legal in the world that i can do about it, except maybe show that it is stupid.
as to my “hatred” for erap and “love” for gma, i don’t know why you say that. am i supposed to love the convicted one and hate the suspect?
# 25 September 2007 at 3:02 am

cvj said:
Francis, i think the Church is entitled to push for their advocacies (subject to limits set by separation of Church and State), but i also believe that they should be taxed.
# 25 September 2007 at 8:43 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Bencard, GMA should fire Puno? Ronnie is only carrying out her wishes. Your abiding faith in GMA astounds me.
# 25 September 2007 at 9:38 am

karl garcia said:
In Pete’s own words “re: 1983 collapse, the US factor came to mind, bases issue, marcos cut it short to 25 yrs., gap with US set in, marcos playing/toying with the China hand, ” this obviously angers our Uncle Sam…..poor Erap did not extend the US bases issue and my Uncle Sam never ever ever EVER forgets…..bang….history repeats itself because the Bonifacio’s has long been dead and the Aguinaldo’s triumph……..It is a personal opinion of course and do respect that…:By Francis:
Opinions, I repect,but please don’t mind the minor correction;
The subic non etension happened before the 92 elections,ERap was elected 98
# 25 September 2007 at 9:40 am

karl garcia said:
objective in relation to the portrayal ….
relativity: it depends
objectivity:it doesn’t matter
francis,ok lang yan di naman masama malito eh.
Information overload lang yan.
# 25 September 2007 at 10:03 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“am i supposed to love the convicted one and hate the suspect?”
No, Bencard, I’m just highlighting the blinding intensity, with emphasis on the word “blinding”.
# 25 September 2007 at 11:19 am

Beancurd said:
Bencard, wrong analogy as Shaman pointed out. blinding indeed. And considering the Garci tapes, deaf. Rule of law? tell that to the marines. that is only good if it starts with the highest official of the land. and by golly, the rule of law is not a machine, it depends very much on who enforces it. Remember Burma? remember China? remember US of A in Guantanamo? and there is talk of equal protection. yeah, lady justice with a patch on one eye, that is all there is to it.
# 25 September 2007 at 12:30 pm

indoro ni emilie said:
my view: let erap rot if he is truly guilty.
my take: his appeal in the s.c. might just reverse the sandigan verdict. all this absolute pardon ek-ek is a face-saving measure by gma who has made lurid mockery of the justice system.
# 25 September 2007 at 2:36 pm

Bencard said:
“blinding”, shaman? all these hyperbole will get you nowhere.
beancurd, i think you should just join the npa. maybe you’ll get a better “justice” there.
# 25 September 2007 at 8:43 pm

karl garcia said:
“Therefore, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I really KNOW”.
Was that a from the theme song of the movie Pocahontas…”To learn things,I never knew,I never knew……
# 25 September 2007 at 10:26 pm

Francis said:
karl,
Thanks, alam ko it happened when erap was still a senator as i was there in the streets at that very day….hindi po ako nalilito that’s why i said the Americans never forgets hence Edsa 2….maybe you need to review what i’ve written and try to comprehend it a bit more,,….or maybe am not as eloquent as the others in a Filipino type of English….PARDON me then….also on relativity and objectivity….I think what i have written so far is very clear on what am trying to say…surely someone apart from me (as am going to tell the concern conceitedly that the question perhaps so should be addressed back to him after he read all my writting)is getting the information overload…..am being in fact humble when i said that the more i learn the less i know….forgive me as for those whose wisdom is from but one side of an equation may never understand others wisdom….be open minded people as am saying that to myself too….so i don’t need to say “I stand corrected” yet as I believe with conviction that in my writtings so far nothing is nalilito or whatever…Salamat po
# 25 September 2007 at 10:32 pm

Francis said:
Karl,
P.S. Just to explain also to you….when I wrote my replies….you have to know the history between each line or words i say for you to understand what am talking about….because i wrote them with the knowledge and assumption that the bloggers here are intelligent enough to understand and not just intelligent because they know this and that from Pocahontas or Pinochio….the ability to speak a language or to write in english does not necessarily means that one is intelligent……now that is heavy for i do hope that can be comprehensible to the intended person…..hopefully you know exactly what I meant when I use the words Aguinaldo and Bonifacio….it does not only pertains to the man but also the life and the event in parallel to the society that we have….not sure if you’ll understand that but i do hope you would
# 25 September 2007 at 10:40 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Thank you francis,
Just driving a conversation,thanks for the reply.
That was more than enough from what I have asked for.
# 26 September 2007 at 10:06 am

Karl Garcia said:
Francis,
I remebemr reading a column,by Ambeth Ocampo abot his “blog experience”
He learned that a certain stident has been trying to track him for months and almostb had a chancve in the MRT but she had no heart of talking to him.
So what Mr. de Ocampo did was visit her blog, and introduced himself accordingly and all the blogger did was lambast him and accused him of impersonating Mr. dOcampo,upon learning what really happened…she must have banged her head so many times and still failed to invite him via e-mail.
I apologize Francis, if I sounded insulting and condescending.mamaya you are already a guy like mr. ambeth Ocampo tapos makadinig ka ng ganyan mula sa wala naman k.
# 26 September 2007 at 10:42 am

ILOCANOspawn66 said:
if marcos haven’t been elected as president wat would the phillipine be like?
if they knew who assasinated ninoy aquino.. why wasnt there any proof or evidence to prove that a single man pushed the trigger. but 20 accused people put to jail?
i think marcos is the most inteligent president we ever had.. he can run the country without any support from any nation..
corrupt? how wud you run the country make it wealthy without a budget?
how do you think he sponsored making of the main road that leads most cities in the entire phil.?
the schools, the healthcares..
they said he stole millions/billions of dollars ..
where is it now? switzerland? come on they couldn’t even prove
where the money is.. and if thats true why couldn’t the gov. of phil take the money off his account..
No president is even close to what marcos did for the country not alone to let it stand by itself..
our economy use to import and export products now .. there’s barely..
NO ONE COULD MATCH MARCOS INTELIGENCE NORE HIS PRESIDENCY OUT OF THE PAST PRESIDENTS THAT WE’VE HAD!!
JUST MY THOUGHTS!
WAT DO YOU THINK??
# 5 March 2009 at 5:54 am

john jacinto said:
marcos was the worst president the country has ever had. he was a crook and a murderer extraordinaire. he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people who opposed his murderous regime. kailangan pa bang imemorize ‘yan? ha ilocano?
# 1 August 2009 at 2:47 pm

Jeri Daping said:
you keep on mentioning the evils of martial law..why did he declare it in the first place? there must be a reason..
# 14 May 2010 at 3:33 pm

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