Manuel L. Quezon III

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Sam said:
Hahahaha Villar is in deep trouble. It would be interesting to observe how he would decide/act on things now that he has to please both GMA and opposition. Is it true that he’s getting cues from both Erap and GMA?
# 9 August 2007 at 1:58 pm

manuelbuencamino said:
I think the NUJP crying press freedom against Comelec threats to charge two media personalities for electoral sabotage is knee-jerk wrong.
NUJP should welcome the charge. Comelec must be forced to file those charges so a thorough investigation of last year’s election will happen. And it will be conducted in the courts not by the Comelec commissioners investigating themselves.
Let everyone stand in front of the fan. Let’s see who gets soiled.
# 9 August 2007 at 2:28 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“You remove political intervention in economic decisions and you can see that ‘public service’ will only attract two types of persons, either statesmen or masochists, and that will be for the good of the country.”
Disagree. power all on its own attracts different kinds of people. megalomaniacs, big-time syndicates, idealists..
removing political intervention in economic decisions would just move corruption from politics into business itself. look at corporate america and you’ll see what i mean. meanwhile, we’ll be at the mercy of luck in who’ll be interested in manning the govt. we’ll cash in if the benevolent win, and we’ll luck out if the crazies win. those who have incentives to at least keep the economy afloat won’t have reason to join in, as we have freed business to swim in their own mess of corruption.
# 9 August 2007 at 2:52 pm

benign0 said:
I’ve got mixed feelings about “migrant philantropy” though.
For the same reason that some (including myself) view the high proportion of the value of our economy accounted for OFW remittances as more of disturbing thing than as something to rejoice about, rejoicing in the alleviation of poverty through philantropy (whether by OFWs or whatever charitable work) is pathetic to say the least.
How long can an entire society SUBSIST in the altruism of an elite minority?
It is this kind of thinking that erodes self-respect in a people already bankrupt of self-respect.
Whereas the wealth of TRULY prosperous societies was built on SMART work (note that HARD work is such a 19th Century concept), we seem to have been reduced to pinning hope for poverty alleviation (never mind hope for prosperity) on nothing more than charity.
This is not simply being victims of whatever bogymen we love to blame (i.e. our favourite “corrupt” politicians, the evil imperialists and ex-colonial masters, the environment, God, Satan, si Bathala, mga dwende, etc.), this is simply a complete lack of imagination.
It is so boring.
It is so pathetic.
mlq3, I beg to differ to “a ray of hope” as your lead-in line into your link to Dennis D. Estopace’s article. I think a more appropriate lead-in phrase would be “a roadmap to mediocrity”.
# 9 August 2007 at 3:06 pm

cvj said:
Benign0, by looking at it from a dependency standpoint, i think you’re looking at Migrant Philantrophy with a too cynical eye. After all, how can you be sure that the assistance does not go to developing the productive capacities (aka human capital) of the recipients?
# 9 August 2007 at 3:45 pm

manuelbuencamino said:
Benigno,
“It is this kind of thinking that erodes self-respect in a people already bankrupt of self-respect.”
Were/are you the victim of racial discrimination?
# 9 August 2007 at 3:45 pm

tagakotta said:
To all our BRAVE SOLDIERS in Basilan(So Brave! but so neglected!!!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzAduXFyISU
Where have all the young men gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young men gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young men gone?
Gone for soldiers every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Covered with flowers every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?
# 9 August 2007 at 3:46 pm

benign0 said:
cvj, a couple of years back I remember seeing an ADB report citing the Philippines having among the lowest return on development funds provided.
It takes imagination to use money smartly, you know.
manuelbuencamino, I think I already answered your question a while back, saying I don’t think I’ve been.
But on second thought, I think my reply in this instance would be that racial discrimination is not an easily defined thing. It can be outright blatant or very subtle. Where does one draw the line?
Furthermore, I think it is up to the recipient of said “discrimination” (however way this term is defined) whether to consider himself/herself to be a victim or not.
Victimhood is all in the mind, in my opinion. You either rise up and face whatever is (supposedly) victimising you (which strangely enough, does not make you a victim), or you lay down and choose to die.
So why do you ask?
# 9 August 2007 at 3:59 pm

Jeg said:
Benign0: a couple of years back I remember seeing an ADB report citing the Philippines having among the lowest return on development funds provided.
Although I agree that lack of imagination had a hand in this, one cannot also discount the role our favorite boogeyman corruption played. ADB channels funds through unimaginative and corrupt conduits. OFW philanthropy I would guess – the article didnt explicitly say – would go to scholarship grants and feeding programs for children, and would go directly to NGOs. I dont see that as pathetic at all.
# 9 August 2007 at 4:10 pm

john marzan said:
re the removal of the pork barrel system,
agree ako diyan. maganda yan, para naman hindi palipat-lipat ang mga trad pol House members from one president to another every six years, dahil sa pork barrel.
Let’s say the pork barrel system is still in place after 2010. if mar roxas wins the presidency, yung mga dating trapo LAKAS at KAMPI members ay magiging LP na. Kung si Villar naman ang manalo, lilipat ang mga ito sa NP. We’ve seen it before with FVR, Erap, and GMA getting the majority of the congressmen to switch sides after becoming president.
# 9 August 2007 at 4:15 pm

manuelbuencamino said:
benigno,
why do I ask?
because your criticism of Filipinos is based on stereotypes and genralizations like “It is this kind of thinking that erodes self-respect in a people already bankrupt of self-respect.”
what factual basis do you have to say something so outlandish?
# 9 August 2007 at 4:21 pm

cvj said:
I agree with Devils who accurately describes the possible situations of market failure that have occurred in the United States. Same thing happened in Russia where the Russian Mafia and a new breed of oligarchs (most of whom where former Communist Party officials) took over and made billions after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 90′s. As Economist Dani Rodrik mentioned in his blog:
the shortcomings of governments should not be taken as a given. Just as economists think about how to improve market institutions, they can devote their talent to improving the institutions of government. The informational and rent-seeking costs of government intervention can be ameliorated through appropriate institutional design.
I think the key phrase above is Institutional Design. I’m all for encouraging entrepreneurship but removing the nexus between politics and the economy is an oversimplification.
Jeg, thanks for that. You’re right to point out that the channel through which assistance flows matters a lot. That nuance is not captured within Benign0′s analytical framework which as MB says, is based on stereotypes and generalizations.
# 9 August 2007 at 4:37 pm

benign0 said:
There’s no denying that they are indeed stereotypes and generalisations (just like there are stereotypes like Japanese industriousness and German engineering).
The fact is, however, that they are spot on.
Who here is ready to put their hand up and DENY that the Pinoy society IN GENERAL is devoid of imagination?
If any of you do have the cojones to dispute my assertion that Pinoy society is GENERALLY devoid of imagination, I hope you have some concrete examples and convincing arguments to debunk this assertion. Up to the challenge? Anyone?
# 9 August 2007 at 6:19 pm

Dave Llorito said:
“Disagree. power all on its own attracts different kinds of people. megalomaniacs, big-time syndicates, idealists..
removing political intervention in economic decisions would just move corruption from politics into business itself.”
when you remove economic incentive for political office, when you transform wealth creation from rent seeking to innovation and market competition, there would less rogues going towards that direction. people respond to economic incentive; same thing with their motivation in politics.
re corporate america, you are probably talking about enron, martha stewart, etc. that’s true, but most of those enron execs and their kind are now in jail. its because the justice system and the bureaucracy in general is not part of this politics-business rent seeking nexus.
of course, pork barrel corruption is still an issue there. but the size of the “innovation/market competitive” realm of the american economy is a lot bigger. that’s explain the continuing dynamism of the american economy.
# 9 August 2007 at 6:32 pm

cvj said:
Dave, that the Enron Execs eventually got caught does not take away the fact that Energy Deregulation and lack of Corporate oversight in the USA paved the way for the crimes in the first place. As this episode has shown, there are a lot of places where market failures can occur. Government cannot avoid the responsibility for preventing market failures. More importantly, if we want to achieve economic takeoff, government has a responsibility to ensure that markets are created.
# 9 August 2007 at 7:10 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
dave, cvj is right. but that’s exactly why we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. corruption just move offices. from political to corporate ones. i think the key lies in having a balance between the two. less political intervention but stricter regulations in honest business practices. can it be achieved? hell if i know. what i do know is that there is no such thing as a foolproof plan. only a working semblance of it.
and you are wrong to think most of the Enron execs went to jail. the bigger fishes got away scot-free. either by making a deal w/the federal government or by exploiting the legal loopholes.
# 9 August 2007 at 9:04 pm

The Ca t said:
Is Chiz the senator being accused as the new Diva?
Dae na da nakakadangog sa mga bati nin mga tawong nakakasabay niya.
Whatever it, I really do not want cheese, am lactose intolerant. Peanut butter na lang.
# 9 August 2007 at 9:55 pm

manuelbuencamino said:
benigno,
“the fact is, however, that they are spot on.”
kaya nga stereotype at generalization ang tawag kc hindi spot on.
stereotype n. an oversimplified standardized image or idea held by one person or group of another
generalization n. a statement presented as a general truth but based on limited or incomplete evidence.
“Who here is ready to put their hand up and DENY that the Pinoy society IN GENERAL is devoid of imagination?
If any of you do have the cojones to dispute my assertion that Pinoy society is GENERALLY devoid of imagination, I hope you have some concrete examples and convincing arguments to debunk this assertion. ”
No buddy. You prove your assertion, you present concrete examples and convincing arguments because you are the one making the claim.
# 9 August 2007 at 10:21 pm

supremo said:
Disagree.
Politics is not the number one factor that’s stifling entrepreneurship. It’s the general lack of capital that’s number one on the list. Unless your last name is Sy or Ayala, you cannot borrow a single centavo from a bank without collateral. Even if you have collateral, interest rates would be in double digits. Farmers generally use their farmland as collateral to get money for farm inputs. Bye bye farmland if they miss a payment. So some Filipinos just satisfy themselves with establishing sari-sari store type businesses. Small capital, small business, small economy.
# 10 August 2007 at 4:09 am

benign0 said:
“No buddy. You prove your assertion, you present concrete examples and convincing arguments because you are the one making the claim.”
ha ha!
I thought so.
Therein lies the problem: when someone insists on proving something that is otherwise so obvious.
Kawawa nga naman talaga ang Pinoy.
# 10 August 2007 at 7:30 am

benign0 said:
Some elements that demonstrate the immense void in Pinoys society where the virtue of IMAGINATION should have been:
(1) LACK OF ORIGINALITY
This is what Nick Joaquin had to say:
———
Are we not confusing timidity for humility and making a virtue of what may be the worst of our vices? Is not our timorous clinging to smallness the bondage we must break if we are ever to inherit the earth and be free, independent, progressive? The small must ever be prey to the big. Aldous Huxley said that some people are born victims, or “murderers.” He came to the Philippines and thought us the “least original” of people. Is there not a relation between his two terms? Originality requires daring: the daring to destroy the obsolete, to annihilate the petty. It’s cold comfort to think we haven’t developed that kind of “murderer mentality.”
———
(2) LACK OF SCALE AND REGARD FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE
Again, the eminent Nick Joaquin at his finest:
———
We work more but make less. Why? Because we act on such a pygmy scale. Abroad they would think you mad if you went in a store and tried to buy just one stick of cigarette. They don’t operate on the scale. The difference is greater than between having and not having; the difference is in the way of thinking. They are accustomed to thinking dynamically. We have the habit, whatever our individual resources, of thinking poor, of thinking petty.
———
(3) SMALLNESS OF MIND
AN admired Filipino economist, based in New York, surveyed the economic situation here and dolefully intoned: ”What ails the country is that Philippine society is intellectually bankrupt.” Take, for instance, the national debates, she pointed out.
“They are droll and unintelligent, focused on the trivial or the irrelevant.” When the issues are of some significance, it’s the wrong arguments that prevail, the wrong side wins. Logic and common sense take the backseat to political arguments and the views of the poorly-educated. There seems to be some bases for her disenchantment.
Just a sample of a VAST body of work articulating the smallness of the Pinoy mind and the immenseness of the imaginative void that envelops our society.
References:
Nick Joaquin “A Heritage of Smallness”
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/agr-disagr/17-4-smallness.html
The *Manila Bulletin* “The Absence of Common Sense”, 09 April 2000
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/10-comsen.html
Cheer-yo!
# 10 August 2007 at 7:45 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
devoid of imagination, benigs? i give you as proof–come up with a more imaginative claim.
# 10 August 2007 at 7:53 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
benigs,
update your literature. a heritage of smallness was written centuries ago, when the world was still viewing the boobtube instead of youtube.
# 10 August 2007 at 7:59 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“The Absence of Common Sense”
google search for the exact quoted phrase yields 1,200 results. discussion ranges from politics to business to technology to religion, pointing to human practice and relationships, generally speaking. of which, only one wrote about pinoy societal frailty.
guess who wrote about it? one imaginative pinoy. so who says the pinoy is unimaginative. i take back my earlier posting. kudos to the pinoy author.
# 10 August 2007 at 8:09 am

benign0 said:
Kudos indeed. Would you say this character is representative of Pinoys IN GENERAL?
# 10 August 2007 at 8:40 am

realist said:
benign0, palagay ko nadulas yang pag-type mo sa kapusukan, at ng hinamon kang pangatawanan yang claim mo e nabara ka. Tama si MB, sa balikat mo ang magpatunay ng pinarada mo.
Kung mahusay at fair ang pagpatunay mo, sa palagay ko, hahangaan ka ng mga nagco-comment dito. Pero kung baliktaran lang ang sagot mo(luma na yan at taktika si gma yan), wala!
# 10 August 2007 at 8:44 am

benign0 said:
Well that’s the dilemma now, isn’t it?
When asked to prove an assertion whose validity is otherwise obvious, we simply convolute the debate even further.
Given the proverbial 10-year-old observing that “the Emperopr has no clothes”, said Emperors’ handlers can easily complicate the issue by countering with “What qualifies you to say that?” “Do you have PROOF?”.
And while all that is going on the Emperor meanwhile continues walking around naked.
Sound like a familiar situation?
# 10 August 2007 at 8:56 am

realist said:
benign0, all you have is conjecture, nothing more. Unless you have some expertise in this field, some emprical evidence, you end up with nothing more than your own personal observation. You are entitled to that.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:03 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“Kudos indeed. Would you say this character is representative of Pinoys IN GENERAL?”
i’d say, statistically, it’s the consistent nature of a nitpicker who indefatigably defines the pinoy frailties as unique only to them and not to other cultures. where this nitpicker–in his long absence from pinas–has failed to realize that in fact there are no more pinoys left in his motherland because everyone has gone just everywhere.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:12 am

Karl Garcia said:
Benigno…
absence of imagination,oversimplification call it what you please.
I think crab mentality and that won’t work kinda attitude is a great hindrance to that…
Just look at the electronic jeep,tested in makati,di ba mas madaming it won’t work comments, kesa let’s give it a try.
Eto na naman ako sa pagiging corny ko..
Sa kalokohan masasabi mo ba na na kulang sa imagination ang garapal na manloloko ng bayan.
pati ang mga syndikato na nagkalat dyan sa tabi tabi…
Lighten up,sir! You are so Pessimistic!
# 10 August 2007 at 9:40 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
it’s not benigs that your observations are totally unfounded, just that they’re too biased–the myopicity of it makes the exercise invalid, ethnographically speaking.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:45 am

tagakotta said:
From the new “Diva” in the Senate:Remember his promises!
Mapayapa at pinagpalang pagbati sa inyo!
Bilang senador, layunin ko po na maiparating ang boses ninyo sa Senado upang sama-sama nating ipaglaban ang tama at labanan ang mali.
Pangunahing pagtutuunan ko ng pansin ay ang maibalik ang dignidad ng bawat Pilipino nang sa gayon ay taas-noo nating harapin ang mga hamon ng tadhana sa pamamagitan ng pagsulong sa mga sumusunod:
(1) Disenteng tirahan sa bawat Pilipino ayon sa programa ng Gawad Kalinga (GK), di lamang para sa mahihirap kundi pati na rin sa mga ordinaryong empleyado tulad ng mga guro, pulis, sundalo at iba pang mga kawani;
(2) Kabuhayan at sapat na pagkakakitaan batay sa sariling kakayahan ng bawat pamilyang Pilipino sa pamamagitan ng micro-finance, skills training, at pagbigay ng prayoridad sa sarili nating mamamayan at kababaihang entrepreneur;
(3) Pagkakataon ng kabataang Pilipino na makapag-aral at makapagtapos mula mababang paaralan hanggang sa kolehiyo sa pamamagitan ng pagbibigay ng sapat na pondo sa mga state colleges at universities, kaagapay ang pagkilala sa mahalagang papel na ginagampanan ng pribadong sektor sa larangan ng edukasyon;
(4) Pagkilala sa karapatang makapagpagamot at gumaling sa anumang karamdaman lalung-lalo na ang mga mahihirap at mga may edad;
(5) Pagtatanggol sa karapatang pantao at pagsupil sa anumang uri ng diskriminasyon;
(6) Pangangalaga ng ating kalikasan sa pamamagitan ng wastong paggamit nito upang matiyak na ang ating likas na yaman ay mapapakinabangan ng susunod pang mga henerasyon; at
(7) Isulong at ipaglaban kung anong naaayon sa batas upang makamtan ang katotohanan, katarungan, kalayaan, kapayapaan at pagkakaintindihan nating lahat.
Ito ang aking mga adhikain at pangarap para sa bawat Pilipino. Hiling at dalangin ko na sama-sama nating pagtulungan na makamtan ang lahat ng ito.
Ang inyong boses sa Senado,
CHIZ ESCUDERO
Home | About Chiz | Senate Agenda | Chiz In Congress
# 10 August 2007 at 10:09 am

rego said:
To me, it really doesn’t matter if the negative/unproductive character that benigno is pointing out is pinoy specific or not. I find his observation to be true. It will not help us much if we continue to deny it or even use excuses for it.
# 10 August 2007 at 10:16 am

Jeg said:
Im just waiting for benign0, the imaginative pinoy, to show us his vaunted creativity by outlining – in highly imaginative ways needless to say – his solution to the general lack of imagination in the unimaginative pinoy. If he can’t post them here, in language free of jargon that even a 12-yr old can understand, then alas, he’s just a typical unimaginative pinoy in the guise of an imaginative one.
# 10 August 2007 at 10:29 am

realist said:
Meron din akong sariling generalization: na ang mga nagibang bayang pinoy ay nasa isip na malinaw ang kanilang mga matang humatol. Bakit nga naman samantalang mapupula ang mga hasang, may panahon at kuwalta upang maglibang. Ano ka pa at si Juan dela Cruz abala sa kakaisip malagyan ng laman ang tiyan. Iyan ang imagination niya kumakain ng steak!
Iyang mga salitang, In general, e propaganda lang naman. Eng-eng lit 101 yan, db? So, kung magpapadala ka sa mga salitang tulad niyan na wala namang batayan, nadale ka!
# 10 August 2007 at 10:34 am

rego said:
“Im just waiting for benign0, the imaginative pinoy, to show us his vaunted creativity by outlining – in highly imaginative ways needless to say – his solution to the general lack of imagination in the unimaginative pinoy”
——————————————————-
I dont think it is for Benigno or anybody to provide an outline. The best thing that people like benigno and Nick Joaquin can do is only to point out such defect. Suggest a general solution like education .
Parang usapang Gloria rin yan eh. Everybody can point out her defects ( imagined or not ) and always nitpick. But its really up to her to take heed or not. Do something about it or just ignore it.
# 10 August 2007 at 10:53 am

jaxius said:
rego,
the tact of benigno would only be apt if he is preaching to a choir. For now, at least, that choir would consist of you and him. Obviously, most people here do not share your views.
# 10 August 2007 at 10:53 am

Jeg said:
Rego: I dont think it is for Benigno or anybody to provide an outline.
But rego, our friend benign0 has set the bar really high for himself, and it is only fair that I expect more from him. Whining and complaining and pointing out faults, any unimaginative pinoy can do.
# 10 August 2007 at 11:06 am

supremo said:
benignO,
Nick Joaquin said this, the economist said that. I want to hear it from you now.
# 10 August 2007 at 11:10 am

supremo said:
rego said
“I find his observation to be true.”
Where you looking at a mirror when you observed it?
# 10 August 2007 at 11:11 am

supremo said:
rego said
“I dont think it is for Benigno or anybody to provide an outline.”
benignO started it, let him outline his imaginative solution.
# 10 August 2007 at 11:16 am

hvrds said:
“All those who want to reform the Philippine politics and economy should therefore strive to remove the nexus between politics and the economy.”
Can you live without either your heart or lung?
I think the writer of this should distinguish first between bad politics and good politics. Developed societies evolved from raw tribal political economic systems to todays from complex institutional arrangements. It is the same for all countries. Most do not even know what the term macroeconomic fundamentals mean.
The writer it seems is convinced that the government has become the executive committee of the rich and powerful in the country. So what is new?
It is hard to disagree or agree as the writer looks to have a serious lack of appreciation on what economics and politics really mean. Hence his entire premise is flawed.
“In thinking about the economy, it is essential to try to get the balance between the market and the government or the state right to get good economic performance, and avoid very negative side effects on poverty. In some ways we failed to get that balance right. The central lesson of economics over the last more than 200 years has been Adam Smith’s view about the “invisible hand” — that markets lead, as if by an invisible hand, to efficiency; or that the individual pursuit of self-interest leads, as if by an invisible hand, to economic efficiency.”
“One of the main results of my work on asymmetric information — which is just a fancy name for saying that different people know different things — was to show that the reason the invisible hand often seems invisible is that it is not there. That means that there is an important role for government. Or to put it another way, every game needs rules and referees to avoid chaos, and that is true of the market game as well.” Joseph Stiglitz
On the other side are those who think free trade never pays. Someone sent us a review from Patrick Buchanan’s recent book, THE GREAT BETRAYAL; How American Sovereignty and Social Justice Are Being Sacrificed to the Gods of the Global Economy.
“Buchanan was a free trader as recently as 1987,” begins the review. “So he is well versed in the free trade arguments.
“From 1821 to World War II, with short term exceptions, the American tariffs ranged from 25% to 50% with an average of 40%. This was the period of the American industrial revolution. America was built under the shield of protection. Then from World War II to 1970, tariffs were lowered to 12%. There after they were cut to 5%.”
“All four presidents on Mt Rushmore were protectionists.”
# 10 August 2007 at 11:22 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“Kudos indeed. Would you say this character is representative of Pinoys IN GENERAL?”
you mean obsession-compulsion?
what do you reckon, mate?
# 10 August 2007 at 11:30 am

manuelbuencamino said:
Benigno,
(1) LACK OF ORIGINALITY
What do you call the first revolution against colonialism in Asia, timid and petty?
What do you call the first peaceful overthrow of a dictator in the history of the world, unoriginal? Did we copy that from Martians?
2) LACK OF SCALE AND REGARD FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE
“We work more but make less. Why? Because we act on such a pygmy scale. Abroad they would think you mad if you went in a store and tried to buy just one stick of cigarette. They don’t operate on the scale.”
In Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, New York City, and Washington DC, what I thought was uniquely Filipino turned out to be….NOT! I have bought cigarettes by the stick in those cities from non-Filipino storeowners and vendors. They do operate on that scale.
Besides, did you notice that cigarette manufacturers now sell cigarettes in packs of less than ten sticks?
Maybe they learned from Filipinos?
(3) SMALLNESS OF MIND
“They are droll and unintelligent, focused on the trivial or the irrelevant.” When the issues are of some significance, it’s the wrong arguments that prevail, the wrong side wins. Logic and common sense take the backseat to political arguments and the views of the poorly-educated. There seems to be some bases for her disenchantment.”
In 2004, the issue foremost in America was the Iraq war and Bush junior campaigned for a constitutional amendment against same sex marriages.
And he won.
Does that make America intellectually bankrupt?
———————————————
Do you realize now how sterotypes and generalities come to be?
You can’t walk into a US prison or a welfare line and conclude that there is something genetically or culturally wrong with blacks just because you see a lot of them there. You have to look at the BIG PICTURE!
You can’t look at a poor country and conclude that they are stupid, small, unoriginal, lazy, lack self esteem and all that just because they buy “tingi.”
Only a SMALL MIND would extrapolate biases into a general rule!
# 10 August 2007 at 11:33 am

supremo said:
LACK OF ORIGINALITY?
The Spoliarium measures four meters in height and seven meters in width. The painting was submitted by Luna to the Exposicion Nacional de Bellas Artes in 1884, where it garnered a gold medal.
LACK OF SCALE AND REGARD FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE?
The Manila galleon were the largest ships built anywhere up to that time. In the sixteenth century, they averaged from 1,700 to 2,000 tons, were built of Philippine hardwoods and might carry a thousand passengers. The Concepcion, wrecked in 1638, was 43 to 49 m (140-160 feet) long and displacing some 2,000 tons. Most of the ships were built in the Philippines and only eight in Mexico.
SMALLNESS OF MIND?
Eduardo San Juan – Filipino Inventor: Mechanical engineer, Eduardo San Juan (aka The Space Junkman) worked on the team that invented the Lunar Rover or Moon Buggy. Eduardo San Juan is considered the primary designer of the Lunar Rover. San Juan was also the designer for the Articulated Wheel System. Prior, to the Apollo Program, Eduardo San Juan worked on the Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM).
benignO,
Are you talking about yourself?
# 10 August 2007 at 11:47 am

mlq3 (author) said:
“a heritage of smallness” is an excellent essay, i give it as one of many readings whenever i conduct docent training at the ayala museum. but it’s one view, and one that has to be tempered with others.
and i think the truths in joaquin’s essay have been taken to extreme lengths by benign0. in terms of imagination, at least we haven’t had to endure national campaigns to teach imagination, the way singapore’s trying. and you only have to survey the region (and the world) to see how much filipinos are relied on as creatives in advertising, graphic design, animation, etc.
# 10 August 2007 at 11:56 am

Karl Garcia said:
Come to think, of it…
Graphic design and animation :
60s: The Flinstones and the rest of the HannaH Barbera cartoons…
recenetly,the Incredibles and some more recent ones.
Tinge mentality
came from Filipinos: an ingenious way to show how can you buy something when you can’t afford them.
Kenny Roger’s American GM visittingRP,thought of breaded chicken not from KFC but From Jollibeee chickenjoy
But wait…There is more..
The ETC. part
# 10 August 2007 at 12:39 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Me tama din naman sa citations nya kay Nick Joaquin.Re:Daring to destroy the obsolete
I mentioned the E-jeep..bakit nga ba di natin mapakawalan ang beloved jeepney natin,kahit na envrontmentally friendly version,ayaw pa din natin.Isali na din natin ang mini bus dyan.
Not only that,bakit ayaw natin pakawalan ang mga 70s Totota Coronas,corollas,mitsubishi lancer LTypes,box types natin…
In that part I agree with the Nick Joaquin citation….
Is this another Cause and effect thing,that because we cannot afford to,that is why?
The othe others I do not agree at all,like the part where we debate nonesensense based on a certain economist…
have you watched C span or cnn lately and remain awake,based on their supposedy lively issues of the bigger picture?
# 10 August 2007 at 1:12 pm

The Ca t said:
Tingi will not work for the US for the following reasons:
1. The climate encourages people especially in the East Coast to hoard . Before winter, people buy several pounds of meat and poultry and store them in the freezers. They also buy veggies and dry them so they have supply during off season.
2. Even with a convenience store that sells “tingi”, a US consumer would prefer to buy in pack so as to save time in preparing oneself for the weather outside everytime he goes out to replenish his stock. Sa Pilipinas, kahit nakashort pwedeng lumabas.
3. It is not true that it is only in the Phils where you can buy one head of garlic. Even in the supermarket here, you can buy one or two because they are sold by weight. This applies to vegetables such as one piece of talong, 1/4 of squash, two pieces of tomatoes or one stick of celery. It is not because they’re small-minded but because they are intelligent enough to know that there may be only one household member who does not need to buy a pack or by the dozen.
Hindi lang namamalengke yong author.
4. Most of the farm produce are transported by truckers across different states. They got to be sold before their expiry dates so usually they come in big packs for fast disposal at cheaper prices.
4. Cheese, shampoos, soap, mouthwashes come in small packs now. Practically parang tingi na rin.
5. Rice come in smallpacks, not sacks.
You can not expect Benigno to come up with his own recommendations. Even the ideas that he’s selling in his website are not his own. Talking about originality.
I tried that but it is just like squeezing for juice from a rock. Talking about smallness of mind.
Then he can not distinguish a mission from action plan.
# 10 August 2007 at 2:05 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“and you only have to survey the region (and the world) to see how much filipinos are relied on as creatives in advertising, graphic design, animation, etc.”
i think, the unimaginative people Benigno’s pointing out are those that deal in business, not in arts and literature. in that sense, he is somewhat right. our businessmen don’t innovate. and if there are those who do, their products are not supported by the masa bec the common pinoy consumer lack imagination (tingi-tingi mentality) and unconventional innnovative products come off as snobbish for them
# 10 August 2007 at 2:12 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Pasensya na..I really am trying to look at the brighter side of things.kahit ako na lang mag isa…wala talaga akong makita eh..
Buti sana kung kwentong barbero at am news na pamplalipas ng oras ang kinontra ni benigno..eh national debates na according daw to a Filipino economist in the US,that is plain and clear insulting us Filipinos,and this plain and simple crab mentality…
Sorry,sana within our lifetime crab mentality will be a thing of the past.
Acording to studies Koreans do love their country so much..tamo kahit dito sa Pinas ,Korean items pa din ang binibili nila.they still cater Korean hotels and the like.
kahity daw fake,they prefer Korean fakes than Hong Kong imitations.
I hope, we can love our country too,but not to that extent.
# 10 August 2007 at 2:19 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
again hvrds, you’ve pointed out something which i’ve always had in my mind before. that all of the progressive countries of today, began by being extreme protectionists and only opened up their markets when it was already strong to withstand foreign competition. and even today, the big 8 still practice protectionism when their main industries are threatened.
sometimes, it isn’t really abt what kind of system we have. if you put a good manager there, he/she can work out something even with all the limitations he/she may encounter.
# 10 August 2007 at 2:36 pm

Jeg said:
Devils: i think, the unimaginative people Benigno’s pointing out are those that deal in business, not in arts and literature. in that sense, he is somewhat right. our businessmen don’t innovate.
In the words of the sage benign0 (paraphrasing): It’s not really the businessmen’s fault. Theyre just going for ROI. Nothing personal. [Winky emoticon]
and if there are those who do, their products are not supported by the masa bec the common pinoy consumer lack imagination (tingi-tingi mentality) and unconventional innnovative products come off as snobbish for them
The genius businessman who invented the ‘tipid pack’ and the ‘value meal’ are unimaginatively shaking their heads all the way to the bank.
Give the agricultural sector more purchasing power, that is, give the largest sector of the Philippine economy support in terms of infrastructure, credit facilities, and marketing and organizational skills, then sit back and watch the economy take off on its own steam. Then we’ll see how creative the pinoy businessmen can be.
# 10 August 2007 at 2:54 pm

manuelbuencamino said:
Kung susundan ninyo ang takbo ng utak ni Benigno, he is the “unFilipino” Filipino.
That is what happens to many people, not just Filipinos, who emigrate to foreign countries and who can’t cope with differences in skin color and cultural backgrounds.
They feel inferior so they disown their race and culture and portray themselves as the “other” kind. The enlightened ones. The ones who are better.
And they are angry. They blame those they left behind. They lay on our shoulders the responsibility of making them look good to those in their adopted country.
They think that if we behave the way they want us to behave, their inferiority problems will go away…NOT!
So Benigno stop blaming us for your personal problems.
Like I asked you before, have you ever experienced discrimination?
# 10 August 2007 at 3:31 pm

benign0 said:
“in terms of imagination, at least we haven’t had to endure national campaigns to teach imagination, the way singapore’s trying”
Yes. We just sat on our arses and watched history pass us by.
mlq3, On the contrary, I think you gotta give credit to that whole Singaporean effort to artificially engineer imagination into the fabric of their society.
My point is that they RECOGNISED the weakness and TOOK STEPS to rectify it.
Compare that to (as evident in a number of comments here) to our penchant to simply rationalise or (worse) deny the existence of the issue.
So say we find comfort in the knowledge that, just maybe, Singapore was just as unimaginative as we were AT THE START.
Yet the the DIFFERENCE is that they actually recognised this as a REAL issue (instead of going into a state of DENIAL) and actually ACTED upon it.
And the results speak for themselves.
Tom Peters observed in his rant piece in the summer of 2005:
——-
Senior Minister K.Y. Lee (former PM Lee), architect of Singapore’s awesome transformation, addressed our group, and acknowledged that Singapore had achieved its exalted status by becoming Southeast Asia’s hub of “operational excellence.” Singapore does it right! (Or some such.) But he also acknowledged, the reason for his invitation and presence at the conference, that Singapore, now, had to be … and he almost cringed as he said it … “COOL .” Thence “the” “Brand Singapore” conference.
——-
Where does that leave us?
Zilch as usual. Story of our history.
# 10 August 2007 at 3:35 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Nice points,guys nice points..
Kahit na yung ke benigno me tama din kahit pano.(1 pt yata sa scorecard ko)
Cat,thanks for the demystification by explaining the practical side of it.
HVRDS,thank ever of those text book theories,made clearer to me by you,not my economics prof.
kung ganito ba usapan natin,palagi.
Let us drink to that,cheers!
# 10 August 2007 at 3:39 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
benigno, no. it tells us singapore has a problem we don’t.
# 10 August 2007 at 3:43 pm

rego said:
“But rego, our friend benign0 has set the bar really high for himself, and it is only fair that I expect more from him. Whining and complaining and pointing out faults, any unimaginative pinoy can do.
What is wrong with pointing out faults or character defects?
When somebody criticize Glorias pointing her faults is he setting the bar higher too? Does it follow that we have to expect more from oppsition too?
# 10 August 2007 at 5:23 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“Tingi will not work for the US…”
Tingi works perfectly well in the Philippines.
So, benignO, just because tingi doesn’t work in the US or Australia or Europe, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing.
Lack of scale? You call corruption in the Philippines lacking in scale? P700 million fertilizer fund scam, P3 billion Comelec automation scam, $329 million broadband contract, $460 million CyberEducation Project…
# 10 August 2007 at 5:23 pm

rego said:
“the tact of benigno would only be apt if he is preaching to a choir. For now, at least, that choir would consist of you and him. Obviously, most people here do not share your views.”
But Jaxius, people here doesn’t always share views. And that is actually the beauty of this forum.
So If I dont share your views I shoudl tell you to go and preach to the choir.
And and people that share your views automatically became your choir member?
Divisive (another negative trait) naman yata?
# 10 August 2007 at 5:32 pm

benign0 said:
“benigno, no. it tells us singapore has a problem we don’t”
Really?
Now I’m confused.
Between Singapore and the Philippines (just using common sense here, no need to approach this from a rocket scientist’s point of view), which country do you think has the bigger problems at the moment?
# 10 August 2007 at 5:39 pm

rego said:
“My point is that they RECOGNISED the weakness and TOOK STEPS to rectify it.”
———————————————————
Korek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# 10 August 2007 at 5:40 pm

benign0 said:
“Korek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Unfortunately dude, not too many people think so.
Anyways, the important thing is different people and, for that matter, entire societies are dealt different hands. Some hands suck and some are lucky enough to get fullhouses and straight flushes.
To be fair to the Philippines, I think we were dealt a straight flush. We had a well-educated workforce, topnotch public education, and relatively globally integrated economy (by 1950′s standards).
And we just flushed it all down the crapper (it’s no coincidence that Manila smells like one today).
Singapore, kung baga, (as mlq3 asserts) probably had just as unimaginative a population as ours had back when they were still a mosquito-infested colonial outpost.
But they DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
# 10 August 2007 at 5:49 pm

Jeg said:
Rego: What is wrong with pointing out faults or character defects?
It gets annoying when you already know the faults and defects. Like you just want to say, “Oo na. Oo na.” And we’re talking about benign0 here. Not you. I expect more from him because he marketed himself that way. I dont think youve marketed yourself that way.
When somebody criticize Glorias pointing her faults is he setting the bar higher too? Does it follow that we have to expect more from oppsition too?
Of course it follows. The opposition has marketed themselves the same way as benign0. The difference is they have outlined what they plan to do and it’s up to us the citizens to make sure they deliver.
# 10 August 2007 at 5:50 pm

jaxius said:
rego,
Precisely, rego. We always argue here.
So we should abide by the rule that “he who asserts must prove”. Anyone who asserts something and asks others to disprove him should be ignored for being a shameless attention beggar. You just can’t ignore the question to back up your assertion by saying it is already obvious. It’s like saying, “Hey man, are you so stupid not to see what I am saying?”
# 10 August 2007 at 5:52 pm

rego said:
“and you only have to survey the region (and the world) to see how much filipinos are relied on as creatives in advertising, graphic design, animation, etc.”
——————————————————–
I actually do some sort of surveys everytime I got clients that do set designs and scenic carpentry. And in two years and after 20 projects or I havent yet to meet Filipinos that working in this creative feild. Maybe I just missed them.
But if ever I find one, does that invalidate Nick Joaquin and Benigno’s observation?. Or should we take it by percentage?
My own experience and observations actually is that every one has its own creativity in them regardles of race. But in most cases ( Im not saying this happens all teh time), Filipinos doesn’t get the change to fully tap, explore and put to good use the crativenes in them.
# 10 August 2007 at 5:58 pm

Jeg said:
If I may…
Between Singapore and the Philippines (just using common sense here, no need to approach this from a rocket scientist’s point of view), which country do you think has the bigger problems at the moment?
Benny, the question was specifically about creativity. What I think MLQ3 was saying is that we do not have a problem with creativity and imagination. Singapore does. Of course we have bigger problems than Singapore, but lack of creativity is not one of them. We just dont have a robust enough economy to allow that creativity to shine, or at least a robust enough economy to make the fruits of creativity profitable except overseas.
(A bit of advice, which you could take or leave: You really should assume that youre talking to intelligent people, especially in this forum.)
# 10 August 2007 at 6:01 pm

benign0 said:
“It gets annoying when you already know the faults and defects. Like you just want to say, “Oo na. Oo na.” ”
This sounds exactly like how the typical self-important teenager would react when told to do his homework and stop hanging around all day at the mall. I know. I was once a teenager myself.
Even the eminent Jim Paredes himself observed this adolescent archetype that characterises Pinoy society:
—
“Don’t we tend to excuse our foibles and say that we are still a young country to explain why we are in the mess we are in? From all indications, we seem to be ruled by the ‘child’ archetype who refuses to look at things in an adult manner.”
—
Above is an excerpt from his blog post “What child is this?”
http://www.haringliwanag.pansitan.net/2007/05/what-child-is-this.html
And that’s the beauty of all the reactions I get whenever I publish my brilliant assertions. The reactions merely highlight further the very points I make.
# 10 August 2007 at 6:05 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
benigno, apples and oranges. you were talking about imagination. if you lump all other problems together, you could argue we’re worse off, but that ignores the difference in population sizes, and the different circumstances the singaporeans and filipinos face. to start with, a city-state, a one-party dictatorship run according to pretty much fascist principles, compared to a multi-island, multi-million population non-dictatorship, etc. etc. incidentally, scrutiny and debate over here is possible to an extent impossible in singapore, which wouldn’t even allow scrutiny of the lee dynasty’s income or management of the island-nation.
# 10 August 2007 at 6:12 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“The genius businessman who invented the ‘tipid pack’ and the ‘value meal’ are unimaginatively shaking their heads all the way to the bank.”
jeg, they just capitalized on the filipino’s “tingi mentality.” which is what i was pointing out. even if there are businessmen who think big, their business strategy won’t work here with the kind of consumers we have.
“Give the agricultural sector more purchasing power, that is, give the largest sector of the Philippine economy support in terms of infrastructure, credit facilities, and marketing and organizational skills, then sit back and watch the economy take off on its own steam. Then we’ll see how creative the pinoy businessmen can be.”
well, you’ve just pointed out one solution. for me, i think it’s just giving the masa more purchasing power, and then educating them how to spend it bulk by bulk (and not by tingi, which is actually, much costlier) and on where to spend it, and growth would be driven up. we have enough people walking with MBAs as it is, and once there is a market for creative ideas, creative businessmen will come out.
# 10 August 2007 at 6:12 pm

Jeg said:
Benny: This sounds exactly like how the typical self-important teenager would react when told to do his homework and stop hanging around all day at the mall. I know. I was once a teenager myself.
Apples and bananas this time, Benny. You marketed yourself as a sage. Impress me. Offer sage advice instead of issuing the same trite assertions from your holy mountain. I’ll acknowledge that youre right if I think you are.
The reactions merely highlight further the very points I make.
You dont know how right you are. It just highlights you lack imagination. Unless you show you dont of course.
(I was tempted to say ‘Put up or shut up,’ but I dont really want you to shut up. Youre too interesting.)
# 10 August 2007 at 6:18 pm

benign0 said:
“once there is a market for creative ideas, creative businessmen will come out”
But then it could also be argued that truly creative ideas CREATE MARKETS for themselves.
That’s where imagination comes in. It’s thinking out of the square (not merely following others’ leads). It’s being able to imagine entirely new markets (as compared to merely being able to finding an existing one to compete in).
# 10 August 2007 at 6:25 pm

Jeg said:
Devils: for me, i think it’s just giving the masa more purchasing power, and then educating them how to spend it bulk by bulk (and not by tingi, which is actually, much costlier) and on where to spend it, and growth would be driven up. we have enough people walking with MBAs as it is, and once there is a market for creative ideas, creative businessmen will come out.
By masa, are you talking about the workers in the urban poor sector? Developing the agri sector would take care of that as well. The opposite of trickle down. [winky emoticon]
# 10 August 2007 at 6:25 pm

Jeg said:
But then it could also be argued that truly creative ideas CREATE MARKETS for themselves.
I would buy the products of the market created by creative ideas. Do they accept imaginary pesos?
# 10 August 2007 at 6:28 pm

benign0 said:
mlq3, first of all I adhered to the apples-to-apples standard when I made this statement in response to an earlier one you made:
—-
“So say we find comfort in the knowledge that, just maybe, Singapore was just as unimaginative as we were AT THE START.
Yet the the DIFFERENCE is that they actually recognised this as a REAL issue (instead of going into a state of DENIAL) and actually ACTED upon it.”
—-
The starting point is where all things were equal — i.e. both the Philippines and Singapore were equally Third World not too long a time ago.
Second, I noticed you whipped out the old FREEDOM card again which is common in a comparison between the Philippines and Singapore. Fair enough. I doubt though whether a people imprisoned by mediocrity, ocho-ocho politics, and bickering politicians can truly be considered free.
The average Singaporean owns (or is paying off) his own home and has a future secured by a compulsory provident fund.
A Singaporean with a Singaporean passport is WELCOME with open arms at almost every port and airport in the world.
Who is TRULY free? Singaporeans? Or Filipinos?
Abangan ang susunod na kabanata…
# 10 August 2007 at 7:25 pm

cvj said:
Sorry, arrived late at the discussion. I think the ‘pasa load‘ concept of one of the Telco’s is imaginative (aka innovative).
Re Singapore, just like us, it’s an adolescent nation. The difference is that it’s noveau riche and grew up under a strict parent (LKY). Anyone of you who grew up under a strict household will know that sometimes you feel envy for the neighbor’s kids who are given more freedoms. LKY’s polemic against democracy and the marketplace for ideas would be more understandable if seen in this light. He is just telling his kids “huwag niyong tularan ang kapitbahay“.
I have lived and worked in Singapore long enough to appreciate that they have their own sets of problems and insecurities that they have to sort out.
# 10 August 2007 at 7:31 pm

mlq3 (author) said:
who can be considered free? ask the singaporeans who breathe a huge sigh of relief when they visit here or decide to live here. preaching the virtues of thorazine does not glorify the asylum.
besides which you assume that everyone goes along with your assumption, which is that mediocrity and a lack of imagination ruled the roost here and in singapore once upon a time. perhaps that may apply to singapore, but never here, not in terms of excellence in the arts, anyway. not even in terms of commerce, and perhaps not even in terms of science. i would insist in our excellence and high levels of achievement in all these things, and that while we may now be living on past glory in certain respects, we still collectively represent strong achievements in others up to now (even managerial ability in certain respects, ask the indonesians, etc.).
neither do our present difficulties diminish our past or future achievements, otherwise the italians or germans, living through centuries of violence, corruption and inefficiency, might as well have thrown in the towel too (and remember the exodus of italians and germans to the new world, too).
where you and i differ is your insisting on categorically denying any achievement whatsoever and then proclaiming it some sort of virtue that you have a low opinion of your former country. it does not make you a useful filipino or a credit to australia.
# 10 August 2007 at 7:33 pm

The Ca t said:
“tingi” culture did not come about because of the smallness of the mind of Filipinos.
When it became popular, freezers and refrigerators were unheard of.
People preserved their food by drying and salting.
They could not buy in big quantities. Even stores were limited in stocking merchandise.
As to the singkong-suka-and-isang kurot na asin at isang pirasong bawang, this is not a Filipino mentality but more of the Chinese-dummy-owned sari-sari stores strategy to compete with other stores in earlier decades.
Consumers would patronize Mr. Beho than Aling Sion’s Sari-sari store because you can buy tingi with lots of freebies. In marketing, that’s what we call promotion.
The tingi culture persists to selected market segments (sari-sari stores do not flourish inside subdivisions where people do their groceries regularly).
It is now more of strategy that emphasizes convenience and
thrift.
Students in the dorm, people who are always on the move and roomies would prefer products in “tingi” packs.
That in marketing is known as addressing a market niche.
# 10 August 2007 at 7:47 pm

benign0 said:
“who can be considered free? ask the singaporeans who breathe a huge sigh of relief when they visit here or decide to live here. preaching the virtues of thorazine does not glorify the asylum”
Do they now.
How many of these Singaporean’s-who-decide-to-live-in-the-Philippines are we talking about here?
# 10 August 2007 at 7:56 pm

benign0 said:
“i would insist in our excellence and high levels of achievement in all these things, and that while we may now be living on past glory in certain respects, we still collectively represent strong achievements in others up to now”
Such as what, for example? Can you cite specific examples?
More imporantly:
Where are the results?
# 10 August 2007 at 7:58 pm

rego said:
What is wrong with pointing out faults or character defects?
It gets annoying when you already know the faults and defects.
———————————————————
And yet we dont want to face these faults and defects so we wont be aggravated by it…
# 10 August 2007 at 8:24 pm

realist said:
benign0, matanong kita, ano ba talaga ang gusto mong palabasin? Bano ang pinoy, exercise ng debate, matinik si bengn0, asungot si benign0? Ano?
Sa tingin ko tulad ng maraming nadiasporang pinoy ay may tanging galing ka rin. Ngunit sa isip mo e nag-iisa ka. Nahihiya ka sa mga kasamahan mong kapwa pinoy na sa tingin mo e mga siyano, hehehe.
Ano ka ba american pinoy, canadian pinoy, british pinoy, french pinoy, etc? Yan, mapapansin mo na ano mang naging ka laging may kadikit na pinoy.
So, to generalize, ano man ang gawain mo, sa isip mo you will always be a small tinker, no magination at kung ano pa.
Sana hinde mo ginagawa yan sa mag-anak mo: na ikaw ang unang-unang magsasabi na ang mag-anak mo e walang imagination at maliit mag-isip!
Huwag naman sana! Huwag mong itakwil ang pinangaligan mo. Iyang gusto mong palabsing galing. i-channel mo sa ikabubuti ng ating lahi.
# 10 August 2007 at 8:31 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.~Hyman Rickover
I Am A Beautiful Old Person
by Eleanor Roosevelt
Many people will walk in and out of your life,
But only true friends will leave
footprints in your heart.
To handle yourself, use your head;
To handle others, use your heart.
Anger is only one letter short of danger.
If someone betrays you once, it is their fault;
If they betray you twice, it is your fault.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
He who loses money, loses much;
He who loses a friend, loses much more;
He who loses faith, loses all
Beautiful young people are accidents of nature,
But beautiful old people are works of art.
Learn from the mistakes of others.
You can’t live long enough to make them all yourself.
Friends, you and me….
You brought another friend….
And then there were 3….
We started our group….
Our circle of friends….
And like that circle….
There is no beginning or end….
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is mystery.
Today is a gift.
# 10 August 2007 at 8:44 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“preaching the virtues of thorazine does not glorify the asylum.”
nice.
and jeg, yes to your masa question, and yes i agree with you abt developing agriculture (and fishing as well).
tagakotta, and to discuss history is to discuss all these things: ideas, events, people. historians are gods.
would you agree Manolo? aren’t you the consummate historian? *wink*
# 10 August 2007 at 9:14 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Ok Cat,t, I stand corrected The the ingenious tingi system was proudly Filipino. But it evolved to something convenient,I know mathematically lumping them up would cost more,but we are thinking of now,not the end of the month.
A slight correction,or addendum it’s not just promotion…we are now 4cs not 4ps anymore my dear academic and I think it’s more on competition.
Our multinationals doesn’t only have a niche in the people on the move even households for some reason buy in tingi nowadays,they buy sachets instead of the big stuff,don’t ask me why?
Benigno,you have been in Australia too long,I have worked with Australians and they think too much of themselves.
Suggestion:VISIT THE PHILIPPINES.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:15 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Cat,
Pardon the grammar.
benigno,why do you hate your former nation,was it a bad childhood…?
Where is your originality,you even lifted something from my cousin Jim Paredes,where is your imagination?
Kidding, kesa naman ma plagiarize mo.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:21 pm

The Ca t said:
At the end of the day, you will see folks that Benigno has “made” his Point.
All Filipinos are stupid
Benigno is no longer a Filipino
and therefore he is not stupid.
At the end of the day,
Benigno can jump from one topic to another but ne’er would he answer your questions. It is his strategy of
not showing that he really does not know what he’s talking about.
So Benigno, answer their questions, what’s your recommendations?
Promise, I am not going to laugh.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:24 pm

The Ca t said:
benigno,why do you hate your former nation,was it a bad childhood…?
If I remember his story, he never get promoted in his job here in the Philippines. So he moved to the Oz.
When he moved to Australia, he suffered discrimination that he has to deny he’s a Filipino by painting himself white and dyeing his hair blonde.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:28 pm

The Ca t said:
Where is your originality,you even lifted something from my cousin Jim Paredes,where is your imagination?
Originality for Benigno is copying articles in full and posting them in his website without permission. Made us to think that these are contributors of the getreal.
Some forumers were lead to believe that he was Teddy Benigno.
Guess what, he did not correct the wrong impression.
I think he was also banned by Jim in his blog some months back. He did not use his alternick Benigno but the style is definitely his.
So Benigno, answer the questions.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:35 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
in the defense of Benigno (no, seriously) he does have a point. his only problem is that he’s applying his ideas in a sweeping manner. Filipino character faults is a trite idea (we all concede), but it is not the end-all, be-all of causes holding us back. Benigno thinks it is his duty to hammer down this point to everyone of us, but I think everyone of us recognizes this even if we disagree with him abt it. the challenge to everyone (and not just to Benigno) is to accept that there is indeed a truth behind what he (or Nick J) says. that truth is not by itself sweeping or binding on every Filipino (I dnt have the tingi-mentality, nor do i have a small mind, thank u Benigno). once we’re past this self-flagellation period can we only move forward and think of solutions. dwelling on the problem solves nothing.
by how benigno talks, we can all assume he’s still not over the “dwelling” period. give him ten or twenty more years to brood over our char faults.
meanwhile, i have accepted this long ago (that we are not perfect) and i have learned that no amount of blaming, or brooding, or preaching abt it will change anything. when it comes to ideas, Rizal is my hero. but when it comes to actions, Bonifacio is. when we merge the best of their qualities, we get an uberpinoy. i think nietzsche thought of something like this…
# 10 August 2007 at 9:48 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“All we wanted was to be heard, to be able to ask if she cheated.”
Alan Peter Cayetano quote
Will you pursue this in the blue ribbon committee?or part of the deal or no deal in your coalition with the majority?
# 10 August 2007 at 9:57 pm

The Ca t said:
Karl,
my discussion about the tingi system as a culture is to point out that it was not conceived by small minds.
Thanks for the addendum of four c’s.
Is it being taught now as “in lieu of the four p’s, we have now four c’s.
Tell me, which four c’s are they referring to:
the four c’s used to assess one of the four p’s–place which refers to marker, geographic and demographic?
to wit, context, company and competitor analysis?
Last time I heard my dear is there’s really no four p’s anymore. They are already.
Place, Product, Promotion, Price and PEOPLE.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:57 pm

The Ca t said:
correction: there are already five.
# 10 August 2007 at 9:58 pm

realist said:
“If I remember his story, he never get promoted in his job here in the Philippines. So he moved to the Oz.
When he moved to Australia, he suffered discrimination that he has to deny he’s a Filipino by painting himself white and dyeing his hair blonde.”
Uy, MLQ3, walang personalan, db? Hehehe.
# 10 August 2007 at 10:11 pm

manuelbuencamino said:
Ah basta.
All Filipinos, 86 million and counting, as Judge Pimentel would say, have to behave para naman meron mukhang maihaharap si Benigno sa mga Australians.
So stop cutting him down and start behaving like he thinks the Australians want you to behave.
His happiness rests on your shoulders. Don’t let him down.
# 10 August 2007 at 10:14 pm

realist said:
Australian na pala si binign0. alam niyo yung pamangkin ko e nagtrabaho diyan sa australia. maraming bigot dito tito, ang sabi niya. minamana mo e napakaitim pa naman nitong nephew ko, pwedeng mapagkamalang native doon.
Anyway, nung bago siya doon, lumapit siya sa isang kababayan upang humingi ng tulong. E bigla daw hinde marunong mag tagalog at ehy ng ehy, samantalang narinig niya itong nagta- tagalog ilang sandali lamang nakaraan.
Ikaw ba yun benign0?
# 10 August 2007 at 10:25 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
I love my country but I think it’s been stolen…
# 10 August 2007 at 10:36 pm

Bencard said:
there you go again, buencamino, with your sweeping generalizations of filipinos who left the philippines. more often than not, one sees the bigger picture from a distance, a panoramic, rather than myopic, perspective of the nation’s problems.
it is only when one lives in a foreign soil that he realizes something amiss in being a filipino. when the philipines is mentioned in international news only in connection with disasters,i.e., volcanic eruptions, mudslides, moonsoons, kidnapping and beheading of foreigners by homegrown terrorists, etc.; when the philipine stock exchange is hardly mentioned in the business sections of major newspapers; when hardly a glimpse of the “token” contingent of filipino athletes in the olympics is flashed momentarily on national tv; when expatriates pinoys (with active participation of the philipine consulate) parade on major avenues before a sparse crowds of curious onlookers and zero coverage by mainstream media; when pinoy entertainers attract virtually no attention from other than the usual “wowowee” pinoy fans; when philippines is usually bypassed (especially in western countries) as tourist destination in asia; one wonders why the filipinos (in the words of the late roger dangerfield) “don’t get no respect”.
junketing pinoy politicians, used to royal treatment back home, finds out they are just another joe blow in new york.
# 10 August 2007 at 11:14 pm

DuckVader said:
The error in Benigno’s thinking is that he mistakes symptoms for causes and engages in fuzzy wuzzy term use. For example, tingi buying is used to criticize us as culturally deficient. Well, tingi buying is a result of an economic truth — people can’t afford the larger thing. If they had enough money, they would buy the larger product. Therefore the problem is that they don’t have enough income, which leads us to the question of poverty and its causes in the Philippines.
To be honest, I found Nick Joaquin’s whole essay full of this act of categorizing symptoms as the problem, rather than looking for the root cause. He may write well, but his essay is very weak.
# 10 August 2007 at 11:43 pm

Bencard said:
duck, i think benigno has stated the problem – the filipino culture of medocrity, a.k.a., the “smallness” of the filipino mind. as i see it, the “symptoms” he cited were meant to support that thesis.
# 11 August 2007 at 12:06 am

DuckVader said:
Bencard,
I’m a social scientist by profession and abhor vague tags. We have a culture of “mediocrity,” aka “smallness” of mind. What are those? Nigeria is a mess. Do they have a culture of what? Have you seen East Timor lately, it’s a nasty place to be in. Do they have a culture of “stupidity?”
My point is this – we use “culture” as a rug to sweep things under. As if once we say, culture, then it explains a lot. It doesn’t. Culture is a combination of values, actions and behavior. Break each of those down. As I explained, the “tingi” behavior is caused by lack of income, which is in turn caused by poverty and its causes. In fact, some people say the tingi behavior is due to weak consumer protection standards. Would you buy a new product in a large amount knowing that your ability to seek redress is almost zero. So people, even some rich ones, buy tingi because they want to try it out first. And weak consumer enforcement is caused by several things.
Combine these two types of behavior and you have tingi behavior all around.
It would take several pages, but I hope you get the way we should all be dissassembling these “culture” arguments. They are nothing more than aggregates of behavior where we have to determine motives and incentives, instead of sweeping everything under the rug of hand-wringing “culture” explanations as Nick Joaquin did.
Let me give you another example — lechon manok behavior. People will just wring their hands and say it is an example of Filipinos being unimaginative. But Lechon manok behavior is understandable in some industries the context of a country with a relatively small market, where barriers of entry arelow, R&D is expensive or difficult, and experiences occasional macroeconomic crises that undermines ability to secure long-term capital. Lechon manok culture is based on people wanting to enter an industry where profitability has been established. I can go into detail on this, but in other words, there are empirically verifiable arguments, rather than just simply sweeping it under the rug of culture.
# 11 August 2007 at 12:52 am

DuckVader said:
Bencard,
Sorry, message got cut off. But my point is when we identify these real causes then we can then work on real answers. Some people believe behavior can be changed through exhortation (Let’s all do this, let’s all rally around that, et. al.) I believe behavior, whether individual or of societies, is changed by the chaning the structure of incentives for certain actions. And to change the structure of incentives, you have to go to the verificable causes.
# 11 August 2007 at 1:09 am

The Ca t said:
lechon manok behavior. People will just wring their hands and say it is an example of Filipinos being unimaginative.
Lechon manok is a good example of being imaginative of Filipinos.
There was a time when export of chicken to Japan was haulted due to some problems in the contract.
The exporter was left with a huge inventory of dressed chicken.
Thus lechon manok was born. Business creativity, new packaging of a product. Call it in another name, the grilled chicken became leachong manok. Lechong manok machine flourished during that time.
# 11 August 2007 at 1:53 am

Bencard said:
duckvader, it’s nice to be able to look at the pinoy “problems” from the perspective of a social scientist such as you. i thought we were using the term “culture” in this discussion in the context of the degree of sophistication, advancement, or development, that our people has attained in comparison with others in the family of man. rizal spoke of this “culture of mediocrity” that he theorized could be remedied by education. we came a long way, but have we changed? have we ever become “great” other than in our own ethnocentric eyes? have we ever progressed beyond defining excellence as the ability to replicate other people’s style from manner of speech to singing a song, from playing western-style basketball to whitening our brown skin (sometimes resulting in whiter than white).
for every effect, there’s a cause. for every symptom, there’s an ailment. it’s an unbroken chain from a single cause. tingi syndrome and lechong manok mentality are but minor effects among so many (see my 11:14 post re: how filipinos stand in the world community, particularly western).
# 11 August 2007 at 1:54 am

The Ca t said:
When he moved to Australia, he suffered discrimination that he has to deny he’s a Filipino by painting himself white and dyeing his hair blonde.”
Uy, MLQ3, walang personalan, db? Hehehe.
You should have raised that comment when he was calling me tililing.
I am just telling you the reason why Benigno hates Filipinos.
As to the dyeing of hair,it’s the way we describe the brown Filipinos who think they become Caucasian by assuming their citizenship.
# 11 August 2007 at 2:00 am

realist said:
Cat,
Hayaan mo at ira-raise ko sa susunod at ni raise mo na ngayon. Bakit tililing kaba? Di naman yata.
—————
“one wonders why the filipinos (in the words of the late roger dangerfield) “don’t get no respect”.”
bencard, dahil sa iyo.
# 11 August 2007 at 2:36 am

Bencard said:
realist, you are a classic example of a “simple mind”.
# 11 August 2007 at 2:41 am

realist said:
bencard, thanks! comparado sa iyo, complicated ba o wala naman talgang sinasabi? buti na simple and original kesa a wanabe like you.
# 11 August 2007 at 2:45 am

ratatouille said:
The things most call “cultures” just habits developed by most or majority because of the prevailing conditions in a certain place and time. In the country the “Tingi” or smallness is not a culture but reality. People can’t just afford to go “jumbo”, for lack of resources and the reason why there are no resources is because of the smallness of the imagination to create them and that is the Culture.
Also part of it is the weakness of the overall institution that can not correct these “bad habits” that they get imbedded in the mentality of the majority, and perceived as cultures.
Cultures are inherent to a group of people, unaffected by the economic conditions..
# 11 August 2007 at 3:13 am

cvj said:
I also notice a certain assymetry in Benign0′s analysis. When he describes what he believes to be dysfunctional behavior, he attributes it to the Filipino as a collective. When he recognizes achievement (as when he cited the example of Lea Salonga), he attributes it to the particular individual. In Lea Salonga’s case, this is plainly not true as her excellence was nurtured in local theater (in Repertory Philippines).
Bencard, to each his own. I have also lived in foreign soil for sometime now and, unlike you, it did not cause me to find anything that is ‘amiss’ in being Filipino. That mindset is peculiar to your generation and/or Fil-Ams which betrays an inferiority complex. My generation has less of that baggage as it seems that we are more comfortable in our skin. Just like other peoples, we have our own combination of strengths and weaknesses, but these neither makes us superior nor inferior to the others.
# 11 August 2007 at 4:23 am

Karl Garcia said:
Again my dear academician,
I was wrong again in my C(ompetion) counterpart to your p(romotion).
When you narrated the Chinese sari sari store and the pinoy sari sari store naisip ko its more on competition rather than promotion…..
The 4cs by the way are:: category, customers, competition and channel.
Which was supposedly to reinforce the 4ps (product,place,promotion and price),or define the cs first,then deploy the ps. Pero if you say,they are used to asses one the ps,then I humbly submit,to the knowledge of the dear professor.
# 11 August 2007 at 5:14 am

Karl Garcia said:
Duck Vader,
Thank you for solving the mystery of why even the rich buy in tingi, I raised it here ,without knowing the answer to it.So its consumer protectionism and trying it out first.
# 11 August 2007 at 5:28 am

Bencard said:
peculiar to my generation, cvj? what about the burgeoning vicky belo’s clientle, and not only show biz people of your “generation”, but ordinary young wage earners who try to “makeover” their appearance at cost that their ofw cousins would probably cringe. you have no inferiority complex? how come you have a penchant for quoting foreign authors to buttress you arguments on every topic of discussion here – hoping thereby to gain vicarious authority and credibility.
you are living in singapore, i understand. try living in the western world, if you can. then tell me if you are any more comfortable with yourself as we are.
# 11 August 2007 at 5:44 am

Karl Garcia said:
Cat,
Me correction ka pala,like you I multitask and resarch while discussing.
so they are:Positioning,Packaging,Persuassion and performance.
These works more for the service sector..madami sa Pinas nyan while the 4ps work more for entrepreneurs.
Speaking of service sector…
Our gameplan for the interim is increase the outsourcing service sector….
Where is the gameplan for the return of manufacturing(wala na given the China factor)
What about agriculture…
We can make use of this biofuels,without sacrificing food by concentrating on cocodiesel.
Kung kasing dami lang ng palm trees at coconut trees,pati yun sana,kaya lang 60% of palm trees are already in Malaysia,only Indonesia can match malaysia’s resources in Palm Trees/palm oil
About ethnanol,magulo yan dahil ang dami nating sugar barons sa negros and another hindrance is our failed implementation of land reform na sa tingin ko na kalimutan na natin ng tuluyan.
# 11 August 2007 at 5:50 am

Karl Garcia said:
By the way on the first point of the now famous benigno…
That Philantrophy is pathetic,even migrant philantrophy.
Get real,not bitter
CAUSE AND EFFECT,
ARCHETYPES,
SYSTEM’S THINKING,
Why did you leave its because of blank..which lead to blank which in turn also lead you to remit to your relatives here andit helped not only your realtives but the nation as well.
Still call it pathetic.
# 11 August 2007 at 6:00 am

Karl Garcia said:
Pati tuloy yung bilib ko ke Nick Joaquin nawala dahil kay Benigno.
It is in the interpretation,and mindset..if you have a bitter mindset,which you obviously displayed that is how you would interpret it..to the extreme.
take things with a grain of salt,pag me nabasa ka don’t turn it to a horror story.
Sorry kung nagaabiso ako, di ko naman naman alam kung ilang taon ka mas matanda sa akin…If I can take advice and corrections, I can also give them.(baligtad yata)
# 11 August 2007 at 6:11 am

manuelbuencamino said:
Bencard,
Anong generalization tungkol sa Pinoy dito ? –
“Kung susundan ninyo ang takbo ng utak ni Benigno, he is the “unFilipino” Filipino.
That is what happens to many people, not just Filipinos, who emigrate to foreign countries and who can’t cope with differences in skin color and cultural backgrounds.”
Sorry na lang kung tinamaan ka. Akala ko pa naman si Benigno lang ang razon kung bakit dapat ako maging magaling.
Ikaw din pala humahanap ng tukod.
But I inderstand your situation. I know ganyan talaga ang mga immigrant na insecure, galit kung walang matutukuran o masisi. Kasalanan ng magulang at bayan nila kung bakit ang kulay, english at pagkain nila ay iba kesa doon sa kanilang ginagaya.
It’s our obligation and duty to give you emigrants something to be proud of?
Try to accomplish something you can be proud of. Something that will make you forget about your skin color and your height.
# 11 August 2007 at 6:28 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
BE PROUD TO BE A FILIPINO!
“Maybe it will sound simplistic,it is my unshakable belief that the fundamental thing wrong with this country is a lack of pride in being Filipino. A friend once remarked to me, laconically: “All Filipinos want to be something else. The poor ones want to be American, and the rich ones all want to be Spaniards. Nobody wants to be Filipino.” That statement would appear to be a rather simplistic one, and perhaps it is. However, I know one Filipino who refuses to enter a theater until the national anthem has stopped being played because he doesn’t want to honor his own country, and I know another one who thinks that history stopped dead in 1898 when the Spaniards departed! While it is certainly true that these represent extreme examples of national denial, the truth is not a pretty picture. Filipinos tend to worship, almost slavishly, everything foreign. If it comes from Italy or France it has to be better than anything made here. If the idea is American or German it has to be superior to anything that Filipinos can think up for themselves. Foreigners are looked up to and idolized. Foreigners can go anywhere without question. In my own personal experience I remember attending recently an affair at a major museum here. I had forgotten to bring my invitation. But while Filipinos entering the museum were checked for invitations, I was simply waived through. This sort of thing happens so often here that it just accepted routine. All of these things, the illogical respect given to foreigners simply because they are not Filipinos, the distrust and even disrespect shown to any homegrown merchandise, the neglect of anything Philippine, the rudeness of taxi drivers, the ill-manners shown by many Filipinos are all symptomatic of a lack of self-love, of respect for and love of the country in which they were born, and worst of all, a static mind-set in regard to finding ways to improve the situation.” Barth Suretsky
# 11 August 2007 at 7:44 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“Most Filipinos, when confronted with evidence of governmental corruption, political chicanery, or gross exploitation on the part of the business community, simply shrug their shoulders, mutter “bahala na,” and let it go at that. It is an oversimplification to say this, but it is not without a grain of truth to say that Filipinos feel downtrodden because they allow themselves to feel downtrodden. No pride. One of the most egregious examples of this lack of pride, this uncaring attitude to their own past or past culture, is the wretched state of surviving architectural landmarks in Manila and elsewhere. During the American period many beautiful and imposing buildings were built, in what we now call the “art deco” style (although, incidentally, that was not a contemporary term; it was coined only in the 1960s). These were beautiful edifices, mostly erected during, or just before, the Commonwealth period. Three, which are still standing, are the Jai Alai Building, the Metropolitan Theater, and the Rizal Stadium. Fortunately, due to the truly noble efforts of my friend John Silva, the Jai Alai Building will now be saved. But unless something is done to the most beautiful and original of these three masterpieces of pre-war Philippine architecture, the Metropolitan Theater, it will disintegrate. The Rizal Stadium is in equally wretched shape. When the wreckers’ ball destroyed Frank Lloyd Wright’s Imperial Hotel in Tokyo, and New York City’s most magnificent building, Pennsylvania Station, both in 1963, Ada Louise Huxtable, then the architectural critic of The New York Times, wrote: “A disposable culture loses the right to call itself a civilization at all!” How right she was! (Fortunately, the destruction of Pennsylvania Station proved to be the sacrificial catalyst that resulted in the creation of New York’s Landmark Commission. Would that such a commission be created for Manila…)
Are there historical reasons for this lack of national pride? We can say that until the arrival of the Spaniards there was no sense of a unified archipelago constituted as one country. True. We can also say that the high cultures of other nations in the region seemed, unfortunately, to have bypassed the Philippines; there are no Angkors, no Ayuttayas, no Borobudurs. True. Centuries of contact with the high cultures” of the Khmers and the Chinese had, except for the proliferation of Song dynasty pottery found throughout the archipelago, no noticeable effect. True. But all that aside, what was here? To begin with, the ancient rice terraces, now threatened with disintegration, incidentally, was an incredible feat of engineering for so-called “primitive” people. As a matter of fact, when I first saw them in 1984, I was almost as awe-stricken as I was when I first laid eyes on the astonishing Inca city of Machu Picchu, high in the Peruvian Andes. The degree of artistry exhibited by the various tribes of the cordillera of Luzon is testimony to a remarkable culture, second to none in the Southeast Asian region. As for Mindanao, at the other end of the archipelago, an equally high degree of artistry has been manifest for centuries in woodcarving, weaving and metalwork.
However, the most shocking aspect of this lack of national pride, even identity, endemic in the average Filipino, is the appalling ignorance of the history of the archipelago since unified by Spain and named Filipinas. The remarkable stories concerning the Galleon de Manila, the courageous repulsion of Dutch and British invaders from the 16th through the 18th centuries, even the origins of the Independence movement of the late 19th century, are hardly known by the average Filipino in any meaningful way. And thanks to fifty years of American brainwashing, it is few and far between the number of Filipinos who really know – or even care – about the duplicity employed by the Americans and Spaniards to sell out and make meaningless the very independent state that Aguinaldo declared on June 12, 1898. A people without a sense of history is a people doomed to be unaware of their own identity. It is sad to say, but true, that the vast majority of Filipinos fall category. Without a sense of who you are how can you possibly take any pride in who you are?”Barth Suretsky
# 11 August 2007 at 7:53 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
BAYAN KO!
I get misty-eyed everytime I hear this song. Beautiful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tbm4eNJDIY
# 11 August 2007 at 7:56 am

Bencard said:
buencamino, you and cvj are masters at shooting the messengers for the message they bear. like benigno, i pointed out some of the most currently visible “symptoms” of what rizal and nick joaquin once articulated as the “culture of mediocrity” in philippine society. instead of a rebuttal of the issues we raised, what do we get from you? personal frontal attack assailing us for being insecure “emigrants”, suffering from inferiority complex. why can’t you two just debate the issues without attempting to psychoanalyze us, or is it just another indication of a simple mind to take everything personally?
# 11 August 2007 at 8:14 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
I’m glad duck vader is here to put some context to the Filipino situation from a social scientist’s point of view.
I fully agree that the tingi system is income-driven rather than a product of some smallness of mind.
Early in our marriage, my wife and I would always shop at Landmark Supermart retail. Now, we can go to Makro and buy wholesale.
Should it mean that I must deprive myself of something just because I can’t afford to buy it in bulk? Why should I buy one kilo of black pepper when I only need 100 grams? Should I deprive myself of black pepper then because I can’t afford the one kilo, just so I can’t be accused by benignO of smallness of mind?
Here’s a situation:
In America, when a poor man wants to smoke and he can’t afford a pack of cigarettes: “Can you spare me a cigarette, buddy?”
In the Philippines, when a poor man wants to smoke: “Pare, pabili nga ng isang Marlboro.”
Who has self-respect, the mendicant or the tingi buyer?
# 11 August 2007 at 8:27 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
When will it end,all your endless self-flagellations on the Filipino?
Let’s all BE Proud To Be Filipinos!
# 11 August 2007 at 8:35 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“…and the reason why there are no resources is because of the smallness of the imagination to create them and that is the Culture.” – ratatouille
I’m sorry, but I can’t agree that our poverty (lack of resources) is caused by “the smallness of the imagination to create them.” The main causes of our poverty is the lack of opportunities to create resources due to bad political leadership and the iniquities in our social structure.
Look at all those millions of overseas Filipinos (including Bencard and benignO) in places where there are opportunities and where the social systems are more equitable. Where is the “smallness of the imagination” in the billions of pesos that they annually remit back home? Where do I see culture here?
# 11 August 2007 at 8:55 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
The holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl in his book, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” said: “…everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.” Also: “Even though conditions such as lack of sleep, insufficient food and various mental stresses may suggest that the inmates were bound to react in certain ways, in the final analysis it becomes clear that the sort of person the prisoner became was the result of an inner decision, and not the result of camp influences alone. Fundamentally, therefore, any man can, even under such circumstances, decide what shall become of him – mentally and spiritually. He may retain his human dignity even in a concentration camp.”
# 11 August 2007 at 9:07 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“it is only when one lives in a foreign soil that he realizes something amiss in being a filipino. when the philipines is mentioned in international news only in connection with disasters,i.e., volcanic eruptions, mudslides, moonsoons, kidnapping and beheading of foreigners by homegrown terrorists, etc.; when the philipine stock exchange is hardly mentioned in the business sections of major newspapers; when hardly a glimpse of the “token” contingent of filipino athletes in the olympics is flashed momentarily on national tv; when expatriates pinoys (with active participation of the philipine consulate) parade on major avenues before a sparse crowds of curious onlookers and zero coverage by mainstream media; when pinoy entertainers attract virtually no attention from other than the usual “wowowee” pinoy fans; when philippines is usually bypassed (especially in western countries) as tourist destination in asia; one wonders why the filipinos (in the words of the late roger dangerfield) ‘don’t get no respect’.” – Bencard
All those enumerations can be said of a hundred other countries, not only the Philippines.
To Bencard, only the developed nations are admirable. The rest of the world must be hated, insulted, denigrated. Especially the Philippines, since he is a Filipino and he is so ashamed to face the likes of Roger Dangerfield.
Dangerfield is a pure racist and “doesn’t get no respect”.
# 11 August 2007 at 10:13 am

Karl Garcia said:
I have to agree with Rego,that the beauty of this forum is that we don’t always ahare ideas,pero as per tagakotta de cebu,it is souding like self flagellation.matagal ba holy week.
Either we change topic,or start being proud to be Filipinos. Simplistic? What happens next is up to us?
# 11 August 2007 at 10:23 am

hvrds said:
Why all the fuss about Singapore? On one hand why can a city of 600+ sq km with only a labor force of almost 3 million people produce almost as much as a country with a labor force of almost 50 million in a country with 300,000 sq km. We do not count the GrossValueAdded of the subsistence sector of the economy.
Per capita why does Singapore produce more than the countries of India and China?
Are the Pinoys, Chinese and Indians all dumb?
First of all you have to give credit to the highly evolved Chinese warlord Lee Kwan Yew.
He was forced to secede from the Malaysian federation because of the intractable dichotomy between the Chinese trader and the Malay populations of Indonesia and Malaysia. Both the Dutch and English colonizers traded not with the Malays but with the more advanced (evolutionary wise) Chinese traders who were the integrators of both economies just like here in the Philippines. After the wave of nationalizations and expulsion of the white men except here, the Chinese merchant classes took over the trade of the British and Dutch East India companies. Since they were a simply a port city they moved from being a haven for privateers and later a safe haven for the savings of Chinese traders in S.E. Asia predominantly Indonesia. Almost 70% of the monies in Singaporean banks belong to Indonesian Chinese. Obviously they became the Switzerland of the east in the world. Mainly for the Chinese business in S.E. Asia. Hence banks use the SIBOR rate as the benchmark interbank rate for offshore funding in Asia. Singapore became the money center of banks in the region. Singapore became the capital of what is known formally of Greater China. Countries outside the influence of the mainland. In S.E. Asia it is the Chinese businessman apart from the transnationals that integrated Asean.
Economic power determines political power. The west deals mainly with the Chinese in and out of the the mainland. Now that the PRC is rapidly industrializing the influence of the West is slowly shifting to the upcoming mother of all economies. Now Singapore has to turn itself into Disneyland and Las Vegas to survive.
Naisbitt’s Megatrends Asia
Ethnic Chinese: New Great Economic Power
Big Businesses That Are Chinese-Owned
Thailand 81 percent
Singapore 81 percent
Indonesia 73 percent
Malaysia 61 percent
Philippines 50 percent
You cannot take Singapore singly as an independent economy. It was always deeply integrated with its neighbors through the Chinese merchants. Personally I consider most big Chinese businessman her as Chinese multinationals. Nothing racist mind you. But the merchant class is not tied to any country.
The Philippines like its neighbors were fashioned by empire. To say that pinoys are dumb is simply a statement of extreme ignorance which must be forgiven.
For the vast majority of pinoys who have to use their wits on a daily basis to put food on the table that statement is utterly lacking in thought and imagination. At the end of the second world war the plan for Germany was to devolve the society back to the agricultural stage of human development. In other words turn back the clock. A plan for cultural genocide. The Spanish landlord culture is hard to break. Even Ninoy Aquino was infected with it. Maintaining that culture and the culture of trade and commerce is endemic in this country.
Pandit Nehru wanted to build industry by insisting that India be able to establish a watch industry. Learn how to build a watch from scratch and you can build anything. -Engineering and science. Move from the artisans to industry. But they did have an evolved artisan class. The forerunner of engineers. Our forefathers had evolved to that level as they were capable of weaving their cloth with hand looms. That normal evolutionary pace was interrupted by history. Now we have got serious challenges on how to move forward without devolving. It is will difficult.
Not all human species will evolve at the same pace. The conditions for this will vary dependent on so many factors. Prior to the industrial revolution the East and Middle East surpassed Europe in so many aspects. Now India and China are rapidly industrializing their economies and the west is realizing that the future of the planet is dependent on Asia. For us since we are latecomers to this game of nation building consolidating tribal cultures, peasant cultures with the predominant neo-colonial culture is going to be interesting.
Excerpts from a paper on the persistence of underdevelopment. The last sentence says it all.
“Why is underdevelopment so persistent? One explanation is that poor countries do not have institutions that can support growth. Because institutions (both good and bad) are persistent, underdevelopment is persistent. An alternative view is that underdevelopment comes from poor
education. Neither explanation is fully satisfactory, the first because it does not explain why poor economic institutions persist even in fairly democratic but poor societies, and the second because it does not explain why poor education is so persistent.
This paper tries to reconcile these two views by arguing that the underlying cause of underdevelopment is the initial distribution of factor endowments. Under certain circumstances, this leads to self-interested constituencies that, in equilibrium, perpetuate the status quo. In other words, poor education policy might well be the proximate cause of underdevelopment, but the deeper (and more long lasting cause) are the initial conditions (like the distribution of educational endowments) that determine political constituencies, their power, and their incentives.
Though the initial conditions may well be a legacy of the colonial past, and may well create a perverse political equilibrium of stagnation, persistence does not require
the presence of coercive political institutions. On the one hand, such an analysis offers hope that the destiny of societies is not preordained by the institutions they inherited through historical accident.On the other hand, it suggests we need to understand better how to alter factor endowments when societies may not have the internal will to do so.”The Persistence of Underdevelopment:
Institutions, Human Capital, or Constituencies?1
Raghuram G. Rajan (I.M.F. and N.B.E.R.)
Luigi Zingales (Harvard University, N.B.E.R. & CEPR)
# 11 August 2007 at 11:06 am

Abe N. Margallo said:
“To be honest, I found Nick Joaquin’s whole essay full of this act of categorizing symptoms as the problem, rather than looking for the root cause. He may write well, but his essay is very weak.” – DuckVader
I’m with you Duck. Here’s why:
We have heard many complaints, and every day we read in the papers about the efforts the government is making to rescue the country from its condition of indolence [or “heritage of smallness”]. Weighing its plans, its illusions and its difficulties, we are reminded of the gardener who tried to raise a tree planted in a small flower-pot. The gardener spent his days tending and watering the handful of earth, he trimmed the plant frequently, he pulled at it to lengthen it and hasten its growth, he grafted on it cedars and oaks, until one day the little tree died, leaving the man convinced that it belonged to a degenerate species, attributing the failure of his experiment to everything except the lack of soil and his own ineffable folly.
xxx
We desire that the policy be at once frank and consistent, that is, highly civilizing, without sordid reservations, without distrust, without fear or jealousy, wishing the good for the sake of the good, civilization for the sake of civilization . . .
From the “Indolence of the Filipino” by Jose Rizal
Si BenignO ay mapagpapasensiyahan. But, I’ve once thought, how did Nick Joaquin (who admired Rizal) miss this one? Did the mother rear an ungrateful child? Joaquin’s own heritage will stand or fall on this folly.
# 11 August 2007 at 11:09 am

hvrds said:
Another concrete example of when the rich and powerful fuck up with their hedge investments governments step in to save them. The free market at work. Yesterday for a short period the interbank market for funds seized up. Left alone it had the potential of starting a spiral of defaults in the class of financial assets. A massive deflation of values that could have precipitated a rout.
Paulson and Bernanke said a few days ago this will not affect the rest of the economy as it is simply a small sector. Yup, that is why they had to intervene to prevent it from affecting the entire financial markets. They just had to make sure. So we now know that the Greenspan put is still in effect. When these fancy financial architects fuck up governments will move to save them.
The poor farmer who lost his newly planted crop in the last floods does not even have crop insurance. But we just contracted for billions in credit from the Chinese to put up a broadband for the government. How dumb is that?
“Everyone is confident. Because we are all true believers in the Theology of Capitalism. But just in case this capitalism thing doesn’t work out, the Bank of Japan, the Bank of Canada, the European Central Bank and the Fed all joined to say that they would put some additional liquidity into the system. The ECB, for example, announced that it would make “unlimited” amounts of money available at 4% interest. The idea is to protect the financial system from a serious mishap. In a truly capitalist world, of course, there are no protections. People get neither what they want nor what they expect. Instead, they get what they got coming. But the world’s banking cartels have stepped in to fix the credit system and make sure real capitalism doesn’t happen.” Bill Bonner, The Daily Reckoning
All this to save hedge fund investors who belong to the upper strata of the income spectrum.
# 11 August 2007 at 11:22 am

The Ca t said:
so they are:Positioning,Packaging,Persuassion and performance.
Karl,
I am talking about the Marketing Mix as marketing principles taught by Kotler.
Those poor p’s that you enumerated above are marketing strategies that may fall uner promotion.
# 11 August 2007 at 11:36 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
Let’s be proud to be Filipinos!
Puro pataasan ng ihi kayong pseudo- intellectuals and so called marketing whiz kids in this blog.
Ok bilib na kami sa inyo!
But in the end ,STOP the self-flagellation of the Filipino race!
# 11 August 2007 at 12:36 pm

cvj said:
Now Singapore has to turn itself into Disneyland and Las Vegas to survive. – hvrds
That observation is spot on. Singapore (under LKY’s son) is approaching the uncertain future with a certain bravado that belies an underlying sense of insecurity. That being said, things are looking up over here with the job market and real estate market being better than it was compared to recent years. (I’m crossing my fingers that my landlord won’t raise my rent.) Everyone is holding their breath and hoping for the success of their two major Integrated Resorts (casinos) in Marina Bay and Sentosa.
Bencard, the popularity of Cosmetic Surgery is not a measure of nationalism (of lack of it). If you were right is using your yardstick, South Korea can be considered less nationalistic than the Philippines which is clearly not the case. Extreme makeovers is a global phenomenon. As for living in the Western World, i have done my share of visiting and working in the West (Europe, America and Australia) and this does not change my above-mentioned observation.
I wonder why after giving your critique against the Filipinos, you now complain when a criticism of the same sort is directed at Fil-Ams and Filipinos of your generation. The behavior of many (though not all) of your kind is well known among us locals and has been written about and commented on often enough. It’s something that Filipinos who have remained in the Islands just have to put up with on a regular basis.
# 11 August 2007 at 1:38 pm

inodoro ni emilie said:
“in the defense of Benigno (no, seriously) he does have a point. his only problem is that he’s applying his ideas in a sweeping manner.”
i agree. and there lies the danger. to make generalizations without backdropping his arguments in a system (political, cultural, social, etc.) so complex is not ony irresponsible but intellectually dishones, considering he has not controlled for many of these confounding factors.
# 11 August 2007 at 2:32 pm

rego said:
“So we should abide by the rule that “he who asserts must prove”. Anyone who asserts something and asks others to disprove him should be ignored for being a shameless attention beggar. You just can’t ignore the question to back up your assertion by saying it is already obvious. It’s like saying, “Hey man, are you so stupid not to see what I am saying?””
——————————————————-
Ey yun naman pala Jaxius eh. Yan lang naman pala ang ibig mong iparating. So why the sarcasm?
# 11 August 2007 at 2:49 pm

rego said:
kailangan mo ba talaga idaan sa ganyan? Bakit ba di mo diretsahin?
# 11 August 2007 at 2:52 pm

rego said:
“peculiar to my generation, cvj? what about the burgeoning vicky belo’s clientle, and not only show biz people of your “generation”, but ordinary young wage earners who try to “makeover” their appearance at cost that their ofw cousins would probably cringe. you have no inferiority complex? how come you have a penchant for quoting foreign authors to buttress you arguments on every topic of discussion here – hoping thereby to gain vicarious authority and credibility.
you are living in singapore, i understand. try living in the western world, if you can. then tell me if you are any more comfortable with yourself as we are.”
——————————————————-
Bravo, Bencard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# 11 August 2007 at 3:03 pm

rego said:
“To be honest, I found Nick Joaquin’s whole essay full of this act of categorizing symptoms as the problem, rather than looking for the root cause. He may write well, but his essay is very weak.” – DuckVader
——————————————————–
But then you can not identify the root cause without a well defined problem statement.
# 11 August 2007 at 3:10 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“Between Singapore and the Philippines (just using common sense here, no need to approach this from a rocket scientist’s point of view), which country do you think has the bigger problems at the moment?” – benignO
Walang sense of proportion itong si benignO. How can you compare a 270-sq.mi. city-state of 4.5 million people with a 115,831-sq.mi. archipelago of 7,100 islands and a teeming 85 million people?
Pwede ba, stop this inane exercise of calumniating the Filipinos as dumb, stupid, unimaginative and small of mind just because we have not achieved what the Americans, or the Australians, or the Singaporeans have achieved so far?
Siguro 100 years from now at na-achieve na ng Philippines ang level ng US ngayon, at buhay pa si benignO at si Bencard, para sa kanila, dumb, stupid, unimaginative and small of mind pa rin ang mga Filipinos dahil ang mga Americano may mga bahay na sa moon at Mars, tayo wala.
Iyan ang logical conclusion ng mga inane comparisons na ito.
# 11 August 2007 at 3:55 pm

Karl Garcia said:
tagakotta,
Sorry ha,di naman kami pataasan ng ihi and I don’t claim to be whiz cheese whiz or anything.
Kung makipag usap nga ako dito,ayoko ng name calling at asaran,pero minsan di maiwasan,napipikon din ako .
pansinin mo sino ang nakakatagal ke Cat at Rego na walang pikunan at tawagan ng masasakit na salita.
dahan dahan ka naman padre,inayunan na nga kita sa self flagellation.
Kung pwede lang.
# 11 August 2007 at 5:03 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
Karl Garcia and Other Intellectuals and Marketing Experts in this blog:Tama na ang debate! let’s enjoy the weekend.
Life is simple.Life is short.Life is corny.
Here’s one Cebuano joke for you:
Anak: Tay unsay English sa otot?
Tatay: Wind of Change
Anak: Ug Otot nga wa tingog?
Tatay: Sound of Silence
Anak: Ug Otot nga dalang tae tay?
Tatay: Dust in the wind
Anak: Pag ka bright dyod ning tatay, Liwat dyod ko nimo!
# 11 August 2007 at 5:52 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“But in the end ,STOP the self-flagellation of the Filipino race!” – tagakotta, i agree. but i have to correct you on your statement. the term itself means no one can stop it but one’s self since it is self-inflicted, and you cannot inflict it on a whole race. self-flagellation as it pertains to the filipino as a whole, is a character trait, and not one which everyone will have. it is a noun, not a verb.
to propositions that Filipinos in general lack pride or a sense of pride, and that this has led to us being a fuck-up country of small minds, let me quote an excerpt from my essay… (yes, not from a foreigner)
“The social cancer that plagued Dr. Rizal’s time was never really cured. Following executions after executions of martyrs willing to give up their lives for their country, revolutions after revolutions of fighting and in-fighting for our freedom, toppling of dictators and corrupt governments, we are still where we have been a millenia before when Rizal lamented, ‘And taong di magmahal sa sariling wika, ay mabaho, at mas masahol pa sa isang malansang isda.’ And I’m not referring to language deficiencies. I am referring to that trait of ours to be innately ashamed of anything Filipino, or that attitude of attributing anything bad as innately Filipino, that has become our downfall… We speak of undisciplined fellow Filipinos in the 3rd person, as if we, who are also Filipinos, are not part of them. When we see others breaking traffic rules we say things like: ang Pilipino talaga walang disiplina. Hello? Parang di ka kasali don…We have to reinvent the Filipino. We are not a class of thieves, frauds, and drunkards. We are just a class plagued by them. They are not one of us. We true Filipinos, must therefore work at it, to expunge them from our midst.”
# 11 August 2007 at 6:38 pm

The Ca t said:
Puro pataasan ng ihi kayong pseudo- intellectuals and so called marketing whiz kids in this blog.
Is it pataasan ng ihi if you quote marketing principles in the discussion of a “dysfunctional culture”.
To be credible in a forum, one has to impress that she/he is an authority of what she’s talking about. I do not participate in topics that I know nothing about.
Just like in the discussion of legal issues where one has to quote references and proper terms, I find it necessary to describe a phenomenon using the proper terminology.
I do not care if someone gives me a heads up about some information that I may not be aware of.
It’s been years that I have stopped teaching the Principles of Marketing in the Graduate School in the Philippines so I thought that there must be new trends in the local academe that I am not aware of. My exposure to marketing now is being part time consultant to people who’s putting up business here in the States and helping a sister who’s finishing her Graduate School.
Kung gusto ko talagang makipagtaasan ng ihi dito, I should be using big words in Economics, Marketing and Finance and pasting articles that I hardly understand.
But my purpose is to impart knowledge in the simplest way possible. Some people who doubt what I am writing do research and in that process they learn too.
Gusto ko may napupulot ang nagbabasa ng aking comment at hindi ang mga emosyonal na mga salita na nagpapainit ng dugo.
# 11 August 2007 at 6:54 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
this idea of a TRUE Filipino vs a FAKE Filipino has been playing on my mind since it struck me that our char faults were not of our own making, but was ingrained in us by the Spanish and American colonizers themselves. I look at the TRUE Filipino as the ones before the colonizers came. History speaks of how honorable our people was then.
perhaps that’s why my attitude differs so much from that of Benigno’s. instead of feeling bitter, i feel anger. instead of feeling guilty, i feel pride. why blame or feel sorry for those that exemplify those character faults? are we truly at fault? someone who’s been born wearing a blindfold will not know anything except that darkness given by his blinds. likewise, someone who’s been relentlessly told that his race is inferior will not believe anything likewise. the Filipino has been told so much how small of a mind he has that he has begun to believe it true, w/o even trying to dispute it.
I believe we all exhibit this “un-Filipino-like” facade. It is only when we look deep inside ourselves and realize that the TRUE excellent Filipino lies underneath, and has been there all the time, do we realize that neither are we an inferior race nor one who has small minds, but rather just one imprisoned in our blinded belief that we are.
Intensive brainwashing, err, teaching pride in ourselves will do wonders.
# 11 August 2007 at 7:05 pm

benign0 said:
Kakatuwa naman!
# 11 August 2007 at 7:11 pm

realist said:
bencard, gumawa ka kaya ng web blog mo para malaman kung may idea ka na galing sa sarili mo. ano ba yan lagi ka na lang messenger. tapos, mali mali pa o binabaluktot mo ang balita.
Eto suggestion na blog title:
bencard the __ complex mind. yung reader na ang bahalang magsabi kung ano ang complex sa tuktuk mo.
# 11 August 2007 at 7:26 pm

benign0 said:
“the Filipino has been told so much how small of a mind he has that he has begun to believe it true, w/o even trying to dispute it”
I beg to differ though.
Look around you in cyberspace. How much content of the kind that constitutes http://www.getrealphilippines.com can you find?
I think the more accurate observation is that praises to the high heavens of Pinoys is far FAR more abundant than the kind of content I publish. There’s lots of Pinoy feel-good and back-patting content around.
The fact that there are more of you here DISPUTING my assertions and condemning cute little moi for daring to say bad BAD things about Pinoys than those who are actually willing to REFLECT on the sad truths contained in my assertions ironically points to the fact that Pinoys are proud to be Pinoy and are willing to fight for said pride.
The trouble with this pride is this:
What exactly SUBSTANTIATES this pride?
What COLLECTIVE ACHIEVEMENT can we actually cite to make this pride SUSTAINABLE?
That we struggle to answer the above questions, explains why the other part I observe, this willingness to “fight” for said “pride” seems to amount to nothing more than personality attacks (even sadder — speculations on Yours Truly’s personal circumstances), pathetic ad-hominems, and appeals to emotion.
If what we see above is the best defense of the Filipino’s honour we can come up with, then our society is in a sad state indeed.
Sad indeed that those who presume to fight for Pinoy pride, merely undermine it further in the process.
# 11 August 2007 at 7:30 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Look around you in cyberspace. How much content of the kind…can you find?”
Benigno, cyberspace is not an accurate place to look for what I’m pointing out. while the rest of us here have access to a computer and internet, many of those I point out as wearing blinds, would even be lucky to know there are such things.
“I think the more accurate observation is that praises to the high heavens of Pinoys is far FAR more abundant than the kind of content I publish. There’s lots of Pinoy feel-good and back-patting content around.”
Pinoy feel-good and back-patting are not the same as pride. feel-good sentiments are actually coping mechanisms, and back-patting is just one way of being content with mediocrity.
and the fact that there are more of us disputing your “assertions” (are they really yours?) does not automatically translate to everyone of us disputing the entirety of what you said. unless you failed to read between what we wrote, you would’ve noted that many of us (Manolo, me, and others included) accepted that there is a “hint” of truth in what you said. where we differ from you is that we do not agree it is sweeping, nor applicable to everyone. generalization is a fallacy. and there is a reason why it is so.
and here are my answers to your questions:
What exactly SUBSTANTIATES this pride? When realized, excellent work beyond that of what mediocre acceptance can churn out.
What COLLECTIVE ACHIEVEMENT can we actually cite to make this pride SUSTAINABLE? none. for there are few people with that exact pride to drive them to excellence. most pinoys are just like you, content to be bitter that we will never succeed bec we are inborn with character faults, not realizing that one can always rise above one’s self. hey, but when more people achieve enough pride in themselves, maybe we can “collect” them and their “achievements” and hammer it relentlessly on future generations so that we can “sustain” that pride.
“Sad indeed that those who presume to fight for Pinoy pride, merely undermine it further in the process. ”
speak for yourself. you’re the one doing a lot of undermining. and our society isn’t in a sad state. it is people like you who believe it is that are. stop preaching hopelessness Benigs, maybe you might actually help.
# 11 August 2007 at 9:11 pm

ratatouille said:
“Look at all those millions of overseas Filipinos (including Bencard and benignO) in places where there are opportunities and where the social systems are more equitable” – Shamam of Malilipot..
I agree with you that opportunities are lacking in the country, but abundant where B & b where and in places where millions of other OFWs are now earning and remitting to the country. But why are they abundant in a those countries where just decades ago, they were in equal footing to us or even worse? Malaysia for example.
Bencard and benignO if their claims are true, then maybe they jettisoned the Culture of small mindedness to adapt to their new country. Most people who immigrated to First World countries, left the undesirable cultures behind and bring along the one they can be proud of.. but then again a theory is just a theory, anyone can be proven wrong even those who claims to be experts. we are not scientists.. you know…
# 11 August 2007 at 9:14 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
I still believe we should enjoy the weekend .Basang basa na kami sa “P.N.I” contest about the brilliant marketing whiz kids and pseudo -intellectuals .
ako simple lang,di ba na i repeal na ang law of supply and demand???
Have a nice weekend KIDS!
# 11 August 2007 at 9:19 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
To all the Marketing Gurus and
Pseudo-Intellectuals of this Blog:
I dedicate this Cebuano song:
Where is the moment we needed the most
You kick up the leaves and the magic is lost
You tell me your blue skies fade to grey
You tell me your passion’s gone away
And I don’t need no carryin’ on
You stand in the line just to hit a new low
You’re faking a smile with the coffee to go
You tell me your life’s been way off line
You’re falling to pieces everytime
And I don’t need no carryin’ on
Cause you had a bad day
You’re taking one down
You sing a sad song just to turn it around
You say you don’t know
You tell me don’t lie
You work at a smile and you go for a ride
You had a bad day
The camera don’t lie
You’re coming back down and you really don’t mind
You had a bad day
You had a bad day
Well you need a blue sky holiday
The point is they laugh at what you say
And I don’t need no carryin’ on
You had a bad day
You’re taking one down
You sing a sad song just to turn it around
You say you don’t know
You tell me don’t lie
You work at a smile and you go for a ride
You had a bad day
The camera don’t lie
You’re coming back down and you really don’t mind
You had a bad day
(Oh.. Holiday..)
Sometimes the system goes on the blink
And the whole thing turns out wrong
You might not make it back and you know
That you could be well oh that strong
And I’m not wrong (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeeeah)
So where is the passion when you need it the most
Oh you and I
You kick up the leaves and the magic is lost
Cause you had a bad day
You’re taking one down
You sing a sad song just to turn it around
You say you don’t know
You tell me don’t lie
You work at a smile and you go for a ride
You had a bad day
You’ve seen what you like
And how does it feel for one more time
You had a bad day
You had a bad day
(Oh, yeah, yeaaah, yeah)
Had a bad day
(Oh, had a bad day)
Had a bad day
(Oh, yeah, yeah, yeeeeah)
Had a bad day
(Oh, had a bad day)
Had a bad day…
Had a bad day…
# 11 August 2007 at 9:23 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Amen,to all of you!
We are here to learn,and I have learned a lot from this blog entry and comments.
Enjoy,what’s left of your weekend!
To those in the states it’s just starting,so enjoy!
# 11 August 2007 at 9:26 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
tagakotta, law of supply and demand is not a written law. it cannot be repealed. unless you can repeal intangibles. it is a theory which became a law after having been empirically proven as true.
# 11 August 2007 at 9:27 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
laws like that, like murphy’s law, law of gravity… are laws of ideas and not laws of men. go figure how you can repeal the interactions of supply and demand. the best that you can do is interfere with the markets, and even that won’t solve everything.
# 11 August 2007 at 9:31 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
Mr Devil ADV
Galing ninyo mga sir!akala narepeal na ang law of supply and demand!
sir iyung”law and order”,ok pa ho?di pa narerepeal?
and typhoons ho bannned na ba sa Filipnas?akala ko pinagbawal na rin!
hapi weekend po galing pa po sa cebuuuuuuuu
# 11 August 2007 at 10:14 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
thanks. at yung law and order imposible ma repeal, baka ma recall pwede pa. kaso na renew pa ata eh. yung mga bagyo naman, di pa napagbabawal eh. baka pag nakakuha na ng emergency powers si Madam baka pagbawalan na nya silang makapasok dito satin. pero as of now, stay put ka lang, wait for further announcement na lang tayo. at enjoy ka rin dyan sa weekend mo sa cebu. wag mong intindihin dito ang mga gurus at “pseudo-intellectuals.” inggit lang sila sayo. at nga pala, music lover din ako. ganda ng mga kantang pino-post mo. balik ka pagkatapos ng weekwend mo, ha? tsup, mwah!
# 11 August 2007 at 10:53 pm

ratatouille said:
de pa lovey lovey pa kayo dyan. hayan ang kagandahan nating manga pinoy, kahit na nagsuntokan na may pa loving loving pa. happy weekend din sa lahat, habang yong manga sundalo at manga kapatid natin manga muslim sa mindanao ay nagpapatayan.. hay kailan pa???
# 11 August 2007 at 11:01 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
Lahat tayo PILIPINO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rLIGXIajnY
# 11 August 2007 at 11:22 pm

Bencard said:
abe margallo, if i may ask, applying the rizal quote to what we are discussing here, who is the disingenuous gardener?
is it the foreign ruler? if so, why should a people need an outside entity to develop itself? did the britons, the germans, the japanese, the israelites, the americans, etc., etc., need a ‘gardener” to make themselves into what they are in terms of ‘greatness’?
# 12 August 2007 at 12:33 am

rego said:
“It is only when we look deep inside ourselves and realize that the TRUE excellent Filipino lies underneath, and has been there all the time, do we realize that neither are we an inferior race nor one who has small minds, but rather just one imprisoned in our blinded belief that we are.”
———————————————————
I completely agree,Devils, Reminds me so much of a required Filipino Values class for newly hired employees of Intel Phil. The class is really great with no Less than UP anthroplogist professor Felipe Landa Jocano as instructor. I tried to google and found this article
“http://www.geocities.com/kabatuhan/Features/pinoycentral.htm”
I believe it is not wrong for Benigno to come up with his latest rants. For one, it genegrated this kind of discussion. And the character defects in his assertions is really exist.
Yes, I believe this character defects is really just a product of conditioning and is not really inborn traits of Filipinos. And as far as I am concern, Benigno’s challenge is for us to come out of these conditioning. And there is nothing wrong with that. And I believe it can be overcame if we just work hard on it.
# 12 August 2007 at 12:38 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
OMG! back-reading Manolo’s columns proved more beneficial than what I initially thought. here Benigno, you may wanna choke on this:
http://archive.inquirer.net/view.php?db=0&story_id=5373
the all impt excerpt:
“When, as a child, I first asked what nationalism meant, I was simply told, “It means love of country.” There are many kinds of love, as we all discover as we grow up, but fundamental to understanding love is that it requires a sense of self-worth and dignity. You cannot love and be loved, first of all, if you do not love yourself. And you cannot love properly if your love is the kind that is dependent merely on the approval of others, or measured by what you might believe to be the superior love of others. To love one’s country is to love one’s land and people with all their flaws, despite all their wrongs; and to maintain, at the same time, a conviction that one’s love for nation and nationhood will result in a better, stronger country.”
there. we stand on opposite fences.
# 12 August 2007 at 12:47 am

Bencard said:
shaman, roger dangerfield was a known comedian who popularized the double negative “i don’t get no respect”.
i just used his phraseology, but he never said filipinos are not respected (he probably never heard of them…lol). i honestly believe he was by no means a racist.
yeah, you’re right. my enumeration applies to over a hundred other nations. but much closer to home, we are at the tail end of the spectrum in comparison to our neighbors japan, china, korea, india, singapore/malaysia, indonesia and thailand (not to mention australia and new zealand) in the area of international prestige and recognition.
i don’t hate being a filipino, shaman. it’s more like an alcoholic coming to terms with the fact that he is a drunk and hoping to take the first step towards rehabilitation.
# 12 August 2007 at 12:59 am

Bencard said:
oops, i meant to include vietnam in my enumeration above.
# 12 August 2007 at 1:06 am

realist said:
bencard, hinde mo maipagkakaila ang totoo mong damdamin – you hate being a pinoy. gusto mong maging kano which you will never be. why don’t you face it. maybe it will do you good. Kaysa ito, you always have to deny and defend your true feelings. tamo, halos lahat na lang dito inaaway mo! don’t lie to yourself, bro!
# 12 August 2007 at 7:14 am

Karl Garcia said:
Sory Tagakotta,
Ths is my one way to enjoy my wekend..read comments…
dati numg matagal ako jobless wala ako ginawa kundi ganito.
Yung pong exchanges namin ni Cat ay for my learning purposes din..naalala ko kasi na academician sya at ako one time graduate student..I believe in continuous learning nangangalawang na din ako eh,kaya pumupunta ako dito kahit na tawag mo pseudo intellectual,I still would want to hear what they want to say,konti lang yung mga di ko pinapansin na comment,dapat yun na lang ginawa mo sa palitan namin ni CAT,yung subject sa skwela na tinatawag na DEADMATOLOGY…
mahilig ka na din sa kanta
so eto title “WE LIVE,WE LEARN” sa lyrics mahina ako,ikaw na bahala.
# 12 August 2007 at 7:17 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
between reading a passionate, biased cultural idea of a race and a self-congratulatory resume, there is more brilliance in the former.
that said, let me get back to you benigs:
“The trouble with this pride is this:
What exactly SUBSTANTIATES this pride?
What COLLECTIVE ACHIEVEMENT can we actually cite to make this pride SUSTAINABLE?”
good treatises you have here to pursue. now let us hear you substantiate these hypotheses of yours. but take caution: in a highly dynamic social science study–like the one you so proudly sell in your website–you can only do as much as propound on your social theories, but never ever make definitive generalizations as if these are period markers. where are the caveats, dude?
# 12 August 2007 at 10:42 am

Abe N. Margallo said:
Abe margallo, if i may ask, applying the rizal quote to what we are discussing here, who is the disingenuous gardener?
is it the foreign ruler? if so, why should a people need an outside entity to develop itself? did the britons, the germans, the japanese, the israelites, the americans, etc., etc., need a ‘gardener” to make themselves into what they are in terms of ‘greatness’? – Bencard
What Dr. Jose Rizal painstakingly had tried to deconstruct in “The Indolence of the Filipino” Nick Joaquin – in the unfortunate tradition of anthropologist Allan R. Holmberg in his study of the Bolivian natives – swimmingly reconstructed in “A Heritage of Smallness”.
The current efforts of Dr. Amy H. Sturgis to dismantle The Myth of the Passive Indian, by which “generations of scholars took as gospel and applied to other indigenous groups” who “had no real history prior to European contact, when Western influences at last put them on a path to genuine social evolution,” are no less Rizalian.
In defense of the “degenerate species,” Rizal made the case that Filipinos, before their “discovery and conquest” were, among others, shipbuilders, artillery manufacturers, international traders and warriors of great consequence.
“All the histories of those first years [of the discovery of the Islands], in short,” Rizal argued, “abound in long accounts about the industry and agriculture of the natives: mines, gold-washings, looms, farms, barter, naval construction, raising of poultry and stock, weaving of silk and cotton, distilleries, manufactures of arms, pearl fisheries, the civet industry, the horn and hide industry, etc., are things encountered at every step, and, considering the time and the conditions in the islands, prove that there was life, there was activity, there was movement.”
In similar fashion, Dr. Sturgis wrote that during the Columbian conquest, the Aztecs were “more sophisticated in terms of construction and cleanliness than their counterparts across the Atlantic” and had made “extensive use of ceramics to build up the soil, elaborate road systems, and artificial ponds and canals—‘a highly elaborate built environment, rivaling that of many contemporary complex societies of the Americas and elsewhere.’”
According to Sturgis: “For example, despite many clues in post-conquest sources (often written by Spanish colonial leaders or clergy) scholars only realized in the late 1990s that the bunches of intricately knotted strings produced by the Inka actually represent a writing system yielding three-dimensional written texts.”
Sturgis further pointed out:
The first systematic analysis of the grammar of the khipu code did not appear until 2003. As the Western Michigan University historian Catherine Julien explains, the chance now exists that we “may be able to hear the Inkas for the first time in their own voice.” Likewise, surprises found in new excavations of Maya sites—some of which have been made public in the months since the publication of [Charles C. Mann in “1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus”] —illustrate how much there is to learn about the basic chronology and structure of one of America’s dominant civilizations. Each new revelation underscores Holmberg’s error. Native Americans prior to and after 1492, like other peoples across the globe, interacted in innovative, deliberate, and fascinating ways with each other and their environment. If we can transcend petty current politics long enough to investigate these discoveries with all the tools at our disposal, we may learn not only about them but also from them.
Rizal’s conclusion was not surprising:
The evil is not that indolence exists more or less latently but that it is fostered and magnified. Among men, as well as among nations, there exist not only aptitudes but also tendencies toward good and evil. To foster the good ones and aid them, as well as correct the evil and repress them, would be the duty of society and governments, if less noble thoughts did not occupy their attention. The evil is that the indolence in the Philippines is a magnified indolence, an indolence of the snowball type, if we may be permitted the expression, an evil that increases in direct proportion to the square of the periods of time, an effect of misgovernment and of backwardness, as we said, and not a cause thereof. Others will hold the contrary opinion, especially those who have a hand in the misgovernment, but we do not care . . . .
My question now is: By magnifying the so-called “smallness” of the masang Pilipino, did Nick Joaquin have a hand, witting or unwitting, in the misgovernment?
# 12 August 2007 at 11:47 am

manuelbuencamino said:
If only benigno, bencard and rego would return to our shores to save us…
Larry, Curly, and Moe to the rescue!
# 12 August 2007 at 11:56 am

cvj said:
Bencard, as far as international prestige goes, i think the American in you has more to worry about courtesy of your President (the American one). BTW, aren’t you referring to Rodney Dangerfield (not Roger)?
# 12 August 2007 at 9:43 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Sorry, Bencard, I mistook Dangerfield for that racist DJ whatchamacallhim. Dangerfield was the self-deprecating comedian. If I’m not mistaken, he has died.
But still, I think it’s not right to say that Filipinos don’t deserve respect just because we are not a major player on the international stage. I don’t remember the Austrian stock exchange being mentioned in the business section of the major papers. And the Austrian Olympic contingent is not exactly gigantic. When was the last time Austria was mentioned in the major news networks? Does is mean that Austrians “don’t get no respect”? There is something amiss in being an Austrian?
Now, please tell me frankly, how did you feel when the Filipinos played big on the world stage in 1986? I know, you had fled the country before that. But how did you feel?
# 12 August 2007 at 10:39 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“If I remember his story, he never get promoted in his job here in the Philippines. So he moved to the Oz.”
Really, Cat? Then that explains his extreme hatred for the Philippines and the Filipinos.
BenignO is just a clinical case. I won’t bother with him anymore. But he needs professional help.
# 12 August 2007 at 10:55 pm

Bencard said:
cvj, bush is a different subject altogether. please don’t change the thrust of the discussion by changing the subject. whatever bush, or his administration does, has no bearing on the american people’s place in the world in terms of “respect” and “recognition. one president doesn’t a nation make.
btw, referring to your previous post, i did not make the idiotic proposition that cosmetic surgery is “a measure of nationalism”. you’re the one who brought up that idea on your own and then negated it as if it came from me. i only cited belo’s clientele, among others, to rebut your claim that your “generation” doesn’t have the same “inferiority complex” that mine has. classic cvj dirty trick to reformulate a debate to suit his flawed argument.
shaman, that is why i agreed with you that there must be some hundred other nations who, like the philippines, “don’t get no respect”. austria, however, doesn’t need constant attention. it has already earned its place in the world stage with its world-renowned composers, musicians, men of letters, inventors, scientists, etc., etc.
i was proud of what we did in edsa 1 and 2. that pride was, however, offset by the facts that we had to do it to kick out a home-grown tyrant, and an alleged plunderer , respectively. but the bigger shame was our inability to build on what good we have done, and our miserable failure to learn the lessons of our history by committing the same, as well as other forms of, stupidities again and again.
btw, cvj was right. the name was rodney, not “roger”. and yes, he had passed away.
# 13 August 2007 at 1:29 am

Bencard said:
and, shaman, i did not say “filipinos don’t deserve respect”. what i said was they “don’t get no respect”. there’s a difference, if you think about it.
# 13 August 2007 at 1:37 am

cvj said:
bencard, how can you claim that it’s “a different subject altogether” when we are talking about the international prestige of various countries? Anyway, Americans are accountable for Bush since you guys reelected him. Since you’re an American, that’s a cross you have to carry. Of course, you can always claim to be Filipino to save yourself the aggravation.
As for the reference to vicky belo, you were the one who brought it up in the context of our discussion of something being ‘amiss’ in being Filipino. You bring up your red herrings at your own peril.
# 13 August 2007 at 2:12 am

Bencard said:
cvj, your way of arguing is typical of what we are talking about – the “smallnes of the filipino mind”. find yourself another nitwit.
# 13 August 2007 at 3:09 am

ratatouille said:
just state your points guys and let the readers decide who have some sense in their arguments.
As for President Bush, one President’s decision can change the course of history. May not make a nation, but can ruin a nation, sometime his own as we can see Pres. Arroyo and the Presidents before her (now many Presidents compound the destruction of a nation) as our good example. It is ok to hit on the Presidents. ang daga..
# 13 August 2007 at 3:33 am

Bencard said:
ratatouille, are we now going to debate bush’s decisions or those of other presidents, including pgma, and how they affect their country’s international prestige? have we yet resolved the issue on the “culture of mediocrity” that benigno has raised, by means of relevant arguments and without interjecting new matters that have no bearing on the issue in question?
# 13 August 2007 at 4:54 am

Bencard said:
cvj, again, don’t flatter yourself. being subjected to your topic manipulation is the last thing i would consider a “peril”.
# 13 August 2007 at 5:01 am

Karl Garcia said:
Bencard,
Since you want to stay in the same topic…..
If I may ask,sorry if I don’t find it apparent.
Why do you consider yourself a drunkard who found rehab,in terms of the issue of being proud to be a Filipino? Are you Paris,Brittney or Lindsay fan?
I always have to agree,with something some one says,no one is one hundred percent wrong…
The two edsas did not solve our woes,they made matters even worse..
Like Cory created(for lack of a better term) the kamag anak inc. and let’s throw her out of office brigade,and kung si Marcos ay pala(shovel) si cory ay bulldozer etc,etc,(all that happened under her nose btw)
(That is a classic example of you can’t separate presidents from nations)
We all know what unsolution Edsa2 did,although you may beg to differ,karapatan mo yan.
Guys call me a KJ if that’s what I thought about the two Edsas,I am proud of the event itself ,but what happened next was what is bothersing me.
And as to what Devils essay said..ano ba yang mga pinoy (praphrasing) parang di pinoy…pag nakakita ng road rage sabihing walang disiplina pinoy eh,try riding with a driver in Singapore(although that was a Singaporean friend I was talking about)They drive the same.
Sa states although mas madami ang me displina kesa wala ganyan din,just look at those gals in and out of rehab.
Speaking of law and order and safety.
Have you heard of the Filipina mother not wanting her son to go home to their hometown in Mindanao only to die in a terror blast in London.
Ganyan talga pag puroo flaws nag hanhanapin natin,you can easily smell stink and be bitter about it,without finding a solution like taking a bath.
# 13 August 2007 at 5:52 am

Bencard said:
karl, the reference to “drunk” is only an analogy. the first step to a cure is to stop denying the disease, to accept the existence of the problem. btw, except a light beer irregularly once or twice a month, or a shot of scotch on the rock at socials, i am not a drinking man. i do share your sentiments about the authentic edsas.
nothing that bush does would add to or detract from the greatness of america. afterall, there probably is more opposition to his policies (i’m a democrat) than support them. if there really is filipino “smallness of mind” no amount of inferiority complex on my part, or benigno’s, would make any difference.
# 13 August 2007 at 7:13 am

Abdullah Salah said:
benign0 is right. Filipinos have a dysfunctional culture. That is why we the noble Moro people want to disassociate ourselves from you Filipinos! From the beginning you were all cowards and are unimaginative. You can take all your ocho ocho garbage and sex bomb dancers out of the land of promise. If more Filipinos realize what benign0 is saying and change for the better instead of trying to justify your weak and stupid ways, WAR IN MINDANAO shall never end INSHALLAH.
# 13 August 2007 at 7:32 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
To our Muslim Brothers
The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows when
But I’m strong
Strong enough to carry him
He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother.
So on we go
His welfare is of my concern
No burden is he to bear
We’ll get there
For I know
He would not encumber me
If I’m laden at all
I’m laden with sadness
That everyone’s heart
Isn’t filled with the gladness
Of love for one another.
It’s a long, long road
From which there is no return
While we’re on the way to there
Why not share
And the load
Doesn’t weigh me down at all
He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother.
He’s my brother
He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother.
# 13 August 2007 at 8:54 am

benign0 said:
Bencard,
I find it interesting that the discussion has gone the way of parallelisms with alcoholism.
I’ve used this analogy many times (the metaphorically-challenged responses have been the same in most cases). But i think you put the whole point behind the parallelism very succinctly. Note that in Alcoholics Anonymous, the first step (and the BIGGEST one) that a participant takes is to first acknowledge that he/she is an alcoholic.
Also you are spot on in your second paragraph. I may be sane or insane, a product of racial discriminatin or not, never got promoted in Manila ergo moved to Oz or not. But whether or not these (i.e. conjectures about my personal circumstances) are true or false, do they, in any way change the trueness or falseness of the assertions I make when examined purely for their logical merit? Many people can’t seem to fathom this simple tenet.
People like cvj, for example latch on to a single powerful individual representative of the population (in this case Bush) and make it the core underpinning of their argument. That behaviour actually reflects the whole problem with the type of hollow-headed politics we see in Pinoy society today — Pinoys are comfry with the notion that the President (or an elite chunk of the population) maketh or breaketh the society. But then in truly prosperous societies like the U.S., their prosperity is STABLE enough to weather the comings and goings of good and bad leaders alike.
Take South Korea. They’ve had a far worse track record of corruption at the highest places than the Philippines. Yet their economy is amongst the strongest in the world. Japan for its part changes prime ministers every couple or so years (at best).
If there was anything that exemplifies the REALITY of the small-mindedness of Pinoys, it is, ironically, the arguments of the very people who beg to differ to the assertion that Pinoys COLLECTIVELY are small-minded.
# 13 August 2007 at 9:00 am

Abe N. Margallo said:
bencard, my answer to your question of Aug 12 @ 12:33 am which i posted more than 35 hrs ago is still awaiting moderation (nasa shore yata si mlq3). it’s fine though because i had the chance to refine it. you can click on my name should you still care reading it (i know what ms. The Ca t will think, well, ang lagay si binignO lang ba ang marunong ng marketing? ha!)
# 13 August 2007 at 9:22 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“(the metaphorically-challenged responses have been the same in most cases)”
Some of the bloggers here are also grammatically challenged!What a pain to read their comments!
Let’s be proud to be Filipinos!
# 13 August 2007 at 9:23 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“That behaviour actually reflects the whole problem with the type of hollow-headed politics we see in Pinoy society today — Pinoys are comfry with the notion that the President (or an elite chunk of the population) maketh or breaketh the society.”
benigs, and you have to point this out to bencard who took his leave from pinas because somebody maketh the NEW SOCIETY?
south korea and japan have greater sense of delicadeza. at the slight of corruption charges, they resign. in pinas, pakapalan ng bulsa at mukha. and you can’t even bring in the issue of moral governance into your arguments? getreal, benigs.
# 13 August 2007 at 9:58 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
i meant the leaders in korea and japan.
# 13 August 2007 at 9:58 am

hvrds said:
“For Caesar to be the wolf the Romans must be sheep.
One of the principal reasons why the U.S. dropped the bomb on Japan was the battles for Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. I used to kid my Japanese supplier that if he were late for his deliveries he would have to go to suicide hill and jump off for lose of face. Surrender was forbidden.
As the U.S. forces got closer to the Japanese mainland the people were prepared for what Churchill had described years earlier- we will fight you on the beaches, we will fight you in the fields, every town, every city, every street, every doorway. We will never surrender.
Apart from that Truman did not want the Russians from gaining a foothold in mainland Japan. Stalin was relishing the idea of payback and regain territory and more.
The Japanese were brain washed into collective sacrifice after years of very strong feudal warrior tradition isolated from the outside world. This culture was exported to Korea and Taiwan their colonies. Park Chung Hee the first president of S. Korea was a veteran of the Japanese military. That brutal feudal tradition was transplanted to S. Korea. Hence the Koreans evolved along that severe command structure. They are a very inclusive group. Everyone outside their group is a barbarian. No individual initiative allowed as this is frowned on. The state is a major player in the developmental process. Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan had already gotten rid of their landlord classes so to speak. They turned their peasants into farmers with full state support generations ago. They practice a form of state capitalism. (developmental state)
A peasant culture is naturally small minded and backward for one looking at it from a perspective of modernity.
However if modernity fails and we have to go back to survive from the land they become the smarter group.
That culture of dependency became an offshoot of the economic/political system. “Keep them pregnant and barefoot on the farms.” The natives of the islands are still natives of their own “Bayan’s.” That is not small mindedness that is historical. The people who should know better keep it that way. That is precisely the colonial model still in play in this country. How many still have maids, drivers, cooks in their homes?
The Communists who run the PRC when they decided to impose the one country two systems policy for HK understand dialectics more than any other country. The societal development of HK and the rest of China were in varying degrees different. They had to integrate the people of both sides of the fence over a certain period.
The white men led by the Brits had scared the people of HK that the PLA would come marching in and take over HK and impose command rule. Even today in the PRC labor mobility or movement between the provinces is highly regulated.
Managing societal development is a tricky thing. In Australia, like in the U.S. the indigenous people whose natural evolutionary development were distorted have a hard time integrating into white man’s society. Are the aborigines in Australia small minded or ignorant as some Australians think them to be?
That is exactly how the white men viewed the black man during the times of slavery and even after. Even Lincoln thought that way.
“Now, gentlemen, I don’t want to read at any great length, but this is the true complexion of all I have ever said in regard to the institution of slavery and the black race. This is the whole of it, and anything that argues me into his idea of perfect social and political equality with the negro is but a specious and fantastic arrangement of words, by which a man can prove a horse-chestnut to be a chestnut horse.”
“I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose, either directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality; and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that, notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in”
[p. 230]
”the Declaration of Independence-the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man.” Abraham Lincoln in his debates with Stephen Douglas when he was running for the Senate.
# 13 August 2007 at 10:03 am

Karl Garcia said:
Inaamin ko tagakotta isa ako sa mga challenged na yun…
wala kasi akong time mag cut and paste from lyrics.com
Yung songhits ko naman di ko ma scan kasi sira scanner ko.
kaya nga instead of going to mp3.com sa tabi tabi na lang kahit me bayad para mas mabilis.
Deadmatology,remember.
We have many many flaws,but as in marriage (some will answer a quick yes)will you instantly leave your wife whom you love so much after discovering such flaws.
Don’t look far away many past entries of MLQ3 have entries of love of country as Devils pointed out.
The South Korea example of Benigno,is correct pero huwag naman nila SANA tayo isahan sa pagtayo ng business dito na sila lang ang makikinabang.
Pero as I pointed out they do love their country aside from not having a small mind.
I also recommend to read Abe’s blog.
Remember the coin never has one side,unless that coin sudenly becomes a card.
To whom it may concern.
If you honestly would not want to be called small minded Filipino everyday in your new home ,and give the reply of that’s why I left.
I have a question,is that contributing to the solution,or the problem?.
No right or wrong answer kasi parehong tama.
What ever latin word is for agrumentum uboth r correct is..
There is no point in discussing the smallness of mind, because one,If you are Con..you would negate it by proving it wrong by , by giving big ideas.
Likewise if you are pro,the more you justify it… you prove yourself wrong by also giving big ideas.
So who has the small mind now?
The Filipinos in general?
# 13 August 2007 at 10:29 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
hvrds,
well explicated there. i wish benigs can sound more academic than this, i.e., to pursue his arguments by removing the racial cataracts that blur his sweeping arguments.
pity how he again makes this fallacious conclusion that those who counterargue with him are small minds. on the contrary, those who only think that the opposite of yes should still be yes are pea brains. even a sound scientific theory will always welcome strong evidence of its falsifiability to strengthen its claim.
# 13 August 2007 at 10:30 am

The Ca t said:
The Ca t will think
okay lang saco yan, sir. sadiri mong opinyon ang sinurat mo.
saka bag-o. saiya luma na. mwehehe
And I agree with what you wrote. Little srops make the ocean.
Dr. Yunus, a Nobel Peace awardee for his Grameen Bank is considered one of the greatest entrepreneurs of all time along side with Bill Gates, Henry Ford and other business visionaries.
Small Business here in America is encouraged with the availability of small loans from banks for start-up.
# 13 August 2007 at 11:48 am

rego said:
Sus ginoo, do we really have to through all these nasty conversion.
Simple lang naman yan. If you think you are not “small minded” then Benigno’s assertion doesn’t apply to you. And just show and act big then.
If believe you are “big minded” how about helping those small minded people around you? Motivate them to think big. You can never deny that there are alot of people around who talk like ” Magsasaka LANG ang po ako, instead just of saying it with pride “magsasaka po ako”. Driver LANG po ang tatay ko, karpentero LANG po ako, mahirap lang po kami. You just can not deny that there are people who talk like these around you. Sila na mismo ang nag mamaliit sa mga sarili nila. …
# 13 August 2007 at 12:00 pm

cvj said:
People like cvj, for example latch on to a single powerful individual representative of the population (in this case Bush) and make it the core underpinning of their argument. – Benign0
Just to clarify, if you re-read what i wrote above (at 2:12am), you will see that i’m not latching on to GWB as an individual but pointing out that GWB was reelected by the American people because he was seen to best express their values (conservative, God fearing etc.). As an electorate, they are accountable to the world for making such a choice. In your writings, you blame the Filipino for electing corrupt and incompetent leaders. Why are you not holding the Americans to the same standards?
Let’s not get into the false dichotomy between the ‘single powerful individual’ and the group which creates him/her. Gloria Arroyo is an individual but she is also a member of the Philippine elite and draws her strength from the elitist mindset. Same with Erap who is a member of the elite who panders to the masa mindset. In any case, to deny that an individual can be the catalyst for the making or unmaking of society hasn’t studied enough history.
As for South Korea, as inidoro has pointed out, what differentiates them is their sense of delicadeza (at least when caught). Deadma is still an alien concept to them. And what made them prosperous (if you read the book i recommended before or at least read hvrds above) is their industrial policy.
# 13 August 2007 at 12:29 pm

Friend said:
hay naku. mlq is still such an arrogant but stupid columnist.
sayang lang ang pangalan mo. sinayang mo sa ka-baklaan!
# 13 August 2007 at 12:29 pm

Friend said:
filipinos are dumb, stupid, and imaginative because mlq3′s stupid grandfather wanted hell on earth.
and he wanted hell on earth to be represented by the philippines.
right, mlq3?
your shit-brained lolo is to blame, right? shit-brained ka rin, tama ba?
# 13 August 2007 at 12:36 pm

rego said:
but the way you write, freind, is just showing so much about about you than mlq3….
# 13 August 2007 at 1:00 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“filipinos are dumb, stupid, and imaginative because mlq3’s stupid grandfather wanted hell on earth.
and he wanted hell on earth to be represented by the philippines.
right, mlq3?
your shit-brained lolo is to blame, right? shit-brained ka rin, tama ba?”
friend: such stupid comments.go have a life!
# 13 August 2007 at 1:14 pm

The Ca t said:
Ayan na nagsimula na ang mga troll.
Don’t feed the troll. Let it go hungry.
We are already in Stage 4.
# 13 August 2007 at 1:18 pm

vic said:
We may not be equal in stature, in looks, and the colour of skins. Some may even be descendants of Royalties and Sultans and the Oligarhs and the Warlords from the distant part of the world, but in this part, we never consider anyone above anyone and One has to leave his peerage home if he wants to be among his equals…
for imbedded in the Constitution is the Equality Rights which states:
Equality Rights: Canada Charter of Rights and Freedoms –
Constitutional Act of l982
Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law:
Section 15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
Affirmative action programs:
(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. (83)
# 13 August 2007 at 1:36 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
# 13 August 2007 at 1:43 pm

ratatouille said:
which are you? i’m just a mouse…
# 13 August 2007 at 2:10 pm

benign0 said:
“In any case, to deny that an individual can be the catalyst for the making or unmaking of society hasn’t studied enough history”
Precisely my point, cvj dude. You come from a school of thought where PEOPLE — their posturings, their agendas, etc. — are considered to be the drivers of change. Which is why you can’t seem to rise above discussing PEOPLE and understand the IDEAS that gave such people their power.
What REALLY drives change is IDEAS. The idea, for example, that the German people (1) deserved better than to be subject to the financial ruin resulting from their reparation obligations and (2) are racially superior was what gave Hitler the opportunity and, eventually, the power over German minds and later influence them to do or tolerate the terrible things they did.
The idea that organised religion such as the Catholic Church is the primary intercession channel between man and god is what gives organised religion their power over the “faithful”, and their ability to propagate ridiculous doctrine (such as the “infallibility” of popes, holy wars, etc.) for centuries.
People don’t follow people. They follow the IDEAS that these people espouse.
Interestingly enough, this is just a repeat of a conversation I had with the eminent Patricio Abinales in the PCIJ blog here:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/rant/rant00006.html
So we might observe that you, cvj, and Abinales have similarly-sized minds.
# 13 August 2007 at 2:51 pm

benign0 said:
“People don’t follow people. They follow the IDEAS that these people espouse”
From here we can further conclude that Pinoys are beholden to the idea that skillful ocho-ocho dancers and jailed mutineers are people worth following.
# 13 August 2007 at 2:55 pm

cvj said:
Benign0, i consider your comparing me with Abinales as a compliment I think we are more or less in agreement with your formulation that people “follow the IDEAS that these people espouse” so no need to make it look like i’m opposing you there.
That has been, all along, the operating principle, for example, in the case of opposition to Gloria Arroyo which little to do with personal hatred, and has more to do with the wrongness of cheating during electoral exercises. Similarly, those who support the status quo don’t necessarily like her personally but believe that cheating is excusable under certain circumstances.
Even in the corporate world, we cannot survive on ideas alone. Quality of execution matters and for that, you have to consider people (or groups of people).
BTW, i find your ocho-ocho fetish curious. Why the morbid fascination when most of us have moved on?
# 13 August 2007 at 3:15 pm

benign0 said:
cvj,
Yup, you can consider that a compliment if you’re the type who’s validates one’s self on the basis of one’s affiliations or associations and not based on his/her own personal convictions.
btw, i never said that we can survive on ideas alone. What I assert is that it is ULTIMATELLY ideas that drive change.
People come and go (how many popes, for example has there been). But certain ideas endure, the same way that Filipino and entire generations come and go but certain cultural traits continue to undermine a any effort to build a prosperous Pinoy society.
What’s so “morbid” about ocho-ocho? Isn’t that our national folk dance?
# 13 August 2007 at 3:26 pm

cvj said:
What’s so “morbid” about ocho-ocho? Isn’t that our national folk dance? – Benign0
your national folk dance.
# 13 August 2007 at 3:29 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it–always.
Mahatma Gandhi
# 13 August 2007 at 3:39 pm

Jon Mariano said:
Is the idea that Ideas drive change superior to the idea that Influential People drive change? Or the idea that Ideas of Influential People drive change more superior? For example, was Jose Rizal or was it his ideas that drove change in his time? Isn’t it more accurate to say that Jose Rizal and his ideas drove change? For how can there be ideas if there were no people behind them, and how can ideas flourish without people supporting them?
I find it childish when somebody tries to force somebody else to accept as fact arguments in this line of reasoning. It’s like the classic egg-chicken argument.
# 13 August 2007 at 3:47 pm

Jeg said:
Since people have been starting to psychoanalyze our pal benign0 (I wonder why), maybe you could all take this little test for Asperger’s syndrome. You too, benny. I would peg you as a classic case, but Im no psychologist.
Link: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
# 13 August 2007 at 4:32 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“A seed has to die in order for a plant to grow!”
That’s what Jose Rizal and Ninoy Aquino had to do for our country.
# 13 August 2007 at 4:35 pm

inodoro ni emilie said:
or baka naman a seed has to be sown in order for a plant to grow, cebu.
# 13 August 2007 at 4:46 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
that’s what the Bible said..
# 13 August 2007 at 4:49 pm

vic said:
a person with great ideas should take the test to see these ideas to fruitation. that separates the messenger to the message sender, the doer…
as to a good example of a little man with big ideas and work 40 years to see those came to fruitations check this out:
http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/douglas-tommy-know.html
# 13 August 2007 at 4:49 pm

Jeg said:
Ooops. Something wrong with the results page of the previous link on Asperger’s. Try this one: http://www.piepalace.ca/blog/asperger-test-aq-test/
# 13 August 2007 at 5:02 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Tama si tagakotta de cebu. The seed must cease to exist as a seed (die) for the plant to come into being.
The seed of Rizal had to die at Bagumbayan for the plant of the 1898 Revolution to grow. The seed of Ninoy had to die to give birth to the plant of the 1986 Revolution.
# 13 August 2007 at 5:04 pm

realist said:
Palagay ko itong si bencard e laging ginagago ng mga kano. Halimbawa, kung may news na di kanais-nais tungkol sa pinoy, tinutukso itong si bencard. Sabi siguro ng kano, hey bencard you wanabe look at what your fellow pinoys have done! You are all a bunch of small tinkers, to which bencard replies, you are right sir, sorry sir, sabay mura pag talikod nung kano. Walanghiya talaga itong pinangalingan ko, pinapahamak ako, ika ni bencard. bakit ako hindi naging kano o british man lang, sabi niya. Hehehe.
Okay bencard, hinde eloquent yang salaysay na yan tulad ng mga nabasa na kinokopya mo, pero posibleng mas may kinalaman yan sa attitude mo towards your own pinoys.
# 13 August 2007 at 6:41 pm

Karl Garcia said:
One compliment to give to Tagakotta de Cebu is that he is a walking encyclopedia.
For almost every situation, he has a song to sing to you or a quote to share,and that is not easy.
Alam ko madami satin medyo ganyan din pero sa timing and quickness,I salute you tagakotta.
# 13 August 2007 at 7:29 pm

rego said:
What’s so “morbid” about ocho-ocho? Isn’t that our national folk dance? – Benign0
your national folk dance.- CVJ
——————————————————–
Like it or not, this dance is really very popular. I have never attended a pinoy party or gathering here without singing/dancing ocho-ocho….(instead of the national dance tinikling and other folkdance )
And look at our most popular TV shows, Eat bulaga, wowowee. And we even have no qualms of showing it to the whole world via TFC.. Put that side by side the popular shows in the US like CSI, Grey Anatomy, Desperate Housewive, Lost etc. Di ba nakapanliliit?
And yet most of us are denying and reacting violently on Benignos assertions on Pinoy character defects/faults.
# 13 August 2007 at 8:13 pm

cvj said:
Rego, unlike you i haven’t danced the ocho-ocho. Kung nakapanliliit, why not just say ‘no’ instead of obliging your hosts/guests? Maybe you can suggest the tinikling instead.
Jeg, thanks for the pointer! I got 20. I find it interesting that the person who designed the test is Borat’s first cousin.
# 13 August 2007 at 8:22 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“People don’t follow people. They follow the IDEAS that these people espouse.”
I wonder. I hope you are not again generalizing. There will always be exceptions, and in this case, the opposite might just even be EQUALLY true. consider
JESUS. did people follow His ideas, or Him specifically? i do not have any memorized texts from the Bible (and I am too lazy to search for a specific verse) but here’s what I remember He said: Only through me will you gain salvation… leave everything, and follow me…there will be those who will deny me, and there will be those who will die for me. for those who will (die for Him) I assure you, I am always with you.
SYCOPHANTS. ahh. the perfect example of an exception to Benigno’s “grand theory.” these people don’t follow ideas. they stick to people they deem strong enough to protect them like gum on hair. championing ideas is something foreign to these people. id like to digress more on this, but i think Michael Tan has it down to a science. here:
http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view_article.php?article_id=75927
in sum, there are people who will follow ideas, some who will only follow people regardless of their ideas espoused, some who will follow people bec of their ideas, some who will follow ideas bec they are espoused by certain people, and some who will neither follow people nor ideas. i for one, will not follow some idea blindly like it will get me anywhere no matter how much that idea appeals to me. i may fight for it, die for it, argue for it, but i won’t follow it. what am i, a dog w/o a mind of my own following a glimmer of a bone? i follow only myself. as for people, i’ll only follow those who can show to me they are worth following or that they can better accomplish what i want to accomplish. and then, not even much.
# 13 August 2007 at 9:11 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
cvj, you must understand Rego and friends (the ocho2 fetish club). Ocho-ocho is the symbolic pinnacle of their belief in the smallness of the Filipino mind. it is the crown jewel among their hoard of comparisons. in their belief, you only have to watch the pinoy dance the ocho-ocho and you will surely be struck with the revelation: my goodness, look Peping, how small the minds of Pinoy! let us away from these poor folks and immerse ourself among crowds with bigger brains. oh look! there’s the team of engineers who developed America’s “smart” bombs. come let us commune with them. i gather they’ll have something to say about bigger minds having better ideas. come to think of it, we must measure our brains soon to get an idea of how big a mind we have. it must be pretty big.
Peping: sir what abt our hearts?
Sir: what abt it?
Peping: will we measure it also?
Sir: whatever for my dear Peping? we already have big brains to solve everything else.
Peping: (looks dejectedly at his pathetic heart)
Sir: come now, throw that garbage away. great minds have no use for it.
# 13 August 2007 at 9:36 pm

Abdullah Salah said:
Filipinos have always been conquered because of their small minds and weakness just like these people here who keep contradicting benign0. You don’t think to improve yourselves and choose to remain pathetic. Ocho-ocho is a symptom of Pinoy weakness. So is Wowowee. Culture molds a person and Pinoy culture molds weaklings and people easy to fool! God willing our noble Moro race would be dissociated from you pathetic Filipinos.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:27 am

cvj said:
Devils, i noticed that the ocho2 fetish club crosses faith lines.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:51 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Some of the bloggers here are also grammatically challenged!What a pain to read their comments!” – tagakotta, wrong grammar pains me as well. but more often than not, i am bound to forgive them for it. after all, i have my own slips sometimes. (and it is not for lack of grammatical knowledge, but more for lack of good editing) speeling mistakes are even more forgivable, for they do not automatically translate into bad spellers. (and yes, I did that to sound humorous. forgive me if my attempt fell flat) And please KG, tagakotta is hardly a walking encyclopedia. His attempts are getting annoying, and I am tempted to tell him that I am nearing Song and Quote hell. It is well and good to quote lyrics and famous people’s words when it suits the topic being discussed, but to quote almost the entire song (instead of just naming the song’s title! or linking to its lyrics) or words of famous people by the by (in tagalog, basta-basta na lang) without even a word of your own, or an exposition of your stand, is really grating on one’s nerves. not to mention one’s forgiving attitude towards grammatically challenged individuals and bad, really bad spellers.
and he likes to repeat them too. have mercy.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:56 am

rego said:
“Rego, unlike you i haven’t danced the ocho-ocho. Kung nakapanliliit, why not just say ‘no’ instead of obliging your hosts/guests? Maybe you can suggest the tinikling instead.”
——————————————————–
Oh gee, cvj, what going on? Don’t you think you’re reacting?
I was just commenting on the popularity of the dance that supports benigno’s assertion that this dance has became a national dance. And not only his national dance.
If you dont dance ocho ocho or you dont like it at all,thats fine! I dont dance it either and just politely refuse when asked to. I dont have fetish for it. And we dont teach the kids at hoem to dance it either. But what ever and however we fell about the dance , that doesn’t invalidate benignos assertion at all.
You just cannot deny that the dance is very popular that even small kids as young as 3 years can easilly dance with it. And im very sure, these kids doesn’t have any idea at all what is our national dance.
Do I think ocho ocho is is such a morbid dance? No. It is something related to teh Filipino small ness of mind. The dance per se is not. Heck you dance it just for fun. But if we do it over and over again including the politicians campaigning for an important position. To me it just inappropriate.
# 14 August 2007 at 1:24 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Devils, i noticed that the ocho2 fetish club crosses faith lines.” – cvj, wahaha. noted.
“Culture molds a person and Pinoy culture molds weaklings and people easy to fool! ”
Thanks God, culture overlook me. I was molded more by my experiences and the large number of books I read.
“God willing our noble Moro race would be dissociated from you pathetic Filipinos.”
God willing, bigots and hate-mongerers should someday disappear from the face of the earth. I swore, I’ll never rise to flame-baiting, really. Let me just indulge in this instance a couple of “grrs” and “magtimpi ka DA, magtimpi ka!”
And sorry Jon if I missed your post, but my sentiments as well, though not exactly like that, but well, more or less it follows your line of thought. And KG, my essay was not exactly about Filipino’s being “undisciplined” but about us being TOO accepting that that is exactly the sad truth. if there’s a line separating me from the naysayers of “Benigno’s” assertions, it is this: I have been way past step 1 of AA. You yourself said it quite beautifully. “Ganyan talga pag puroo flaws nag hanhanapin natin,you can easily smell stink and be bitter about it,without finding a solution like taking a bath.”
Too much time being spent on bitterness. I’ve accepted it, and I’ve lived whole. Sometimes I get bouts of hopelessness, but it passes. As Manolo said, I love my country, and I take all its flaws and imperfections along with all the good in it, and still hope, that somehow, someday, my countrymen would also realize this, and have as much love as this, to move past blaming everyone else (but themselves) and work for a country that our kids will someday, really love. Not just puppy love.
# 14 August 2007 at 1:25 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
and oh, Abe, how do you do that? (I mean, make your name a link to your blog?) I’d like to employ that “marketing” strategy as well! And nice article, Abe. Also, your site gave me a nice surprise. I didn’t imagine you’d be quite old. Well, old only in the sense of my age. Though I do have the impression Manolo’s regulars are older than me. though newer arrivals seem to be getting younger and younger. (i wonder if that is a case of Manolo having broken into “mainstream” by having his own show in ANC…) And I’m only saying this bec online anonymity really breeds a lot of false impressions. just as an example, i was really (personally) embarrassed when I learned that the DJB i was disrespectfully arguing with, was the eminent Dean Jorge Bocobo. sometimes, I wonder abt the identities of some of the others here as well. like how I imagine hvrds will somehow turn out to be Walden Bello, or cvj, that guy that used to be my co-worker. idk. i guess it’s a habit of mine to put faces to people i meet online. there’s even this character i’m always at odds with in another forum that strike me as too similar to Bencard. (except that Bencard somehow makes me like him w/o liking his ideas that i disagree with) But that char was a she, so trash that idea. also, staying here, and then wandering at another “popular” blog woke me to something i’ll eternally be grateful for. never resent dissenting opinions or opposing views. they may just be the kind you need to keep you from being that obnoxious bigot you so damn hate. Michael Tan’s article (which I linked) gave a good picture of it. Sulsuleros and Sycophants distort their master’s views so much, that sometimes, they get trapped in their (s&s’) vicious grasps, that no further arguments will be able to save them, and they’ll go down the same path other bigots did before them. intolerance. so thank you folks. im a much better person now bec of you.
# 14 August 2007 at 2:22 am

cvj said:
Devils, currently your name is also already linked to your blog.
# 14 August 2007 at 2:49 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“and oh, Abe, how do you do that? (I mean, make your name a link to your blog?) I’d like to employ that “marketing” strategy as well! from Devil adv”
Vanity is so secure in the heart of man that everyone wants to be admired: even I who write this, and you who read this. ~Blaise Pascal
# 14 August 2007 at 7:24 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
Mabuhay ang Pilipino!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooGtSV7UafI
# 14 August 2007 at 7:48 am

benign0 said:
“I find it childish when somebody tries to force somebody else to accept as fact arguments in this line of reasoning. It’s like the classic egg-chicken argument”
Nobody’s “focing” anyone here, dude. Just laying ideas on the table. If there is any childish behaviour going on here it’s in people who are unable to critique said ideas purely on the basis of (or lack of — if they can demonstrate so) their logical merit and, instead, undertake what amounts to nouting more than ad hominems and conjecture about the personal circumstances of the messenger.
Here’s an example: “Palagay ko itong si bencard e laging ginagago ng mga kano. Halimbawa, kung may news na di kanais-nais tungkol sa pinoy, tinutukso itong si bencard”. Palagay mo nga ba, Mr. Realist?
“Rego, unlike you i haven’t danced the ocho-ocho. Kung nakapanliliit, why not just say ‘no’ instead of obliging your hosts/guests? Maybe you can suggest the tinikling instead”
Well unlike a few people here, I haven’t danced the tinikling. But this quaint tribal dance is still considered to be a “national” folk dance.
“God willing, bigots and hate-mongerers should someday disappear from the face of the earth”
God willing ba? A lot of prayers have been said that “God willing” the Philippines will prosper “someday” (whenever THAT may be). By the looks of our track record in achieving said prosperity in the Philippines God doesn’t seem to be inclined to will it.
It takes a bit more than the “will of God” to get things going. Maybe that’s something Pinoys need to realise.
Hope only works when it is substantiated by a clear roadmap to whatever is hoped for.
Pride is only sustainable when it is substantiated by concrete ACHIEVEMENT.
# 14 August 2007 at 8:09 am

Karl Garcia said:
Benigno,Sir!
Matagal na po ang kasibihan sa pinoy na nasa diyos ang awa nasa tao ang gawa.
If those concrete achievement of Pinoys are too small for you,then let me quote or paraphrase Rego.
Let them think big of themselves,na instead of sabihin na katulong lang po ako eh, sabihin na Ang trabaho ko po ay katiwala ni nina sir ganito. O yung sampol nya nya instead of driver labng ako eh ay. Driver ako.
There is a factor in any job that you do whatever it may be,which is DIGNITY. Kahit na CEO ka e araw araw almusal mo sa chairman ay sermon,sasaya kaba sa ganun na trabaho.
Most of them left this country,too,not due to small mindedness of course,not to inferiority complex but due to a complex phenomenom,which I was expecting to get from you but as of now,the mystery to the madness has not been solved yet..
# 14 August 2007 at 8:41 am

Karl Garcia said:
Me napansin ako sa pinoy pride..re:boxing
dati pag naglalaban si Morales o Barrera vs Paquiao.
sigaw ng mexican fans..Viva el Mehico!
sigaw ng Filipino fans:Manny,Manny!
Ngayon,dahil siguro world cup Philippes vs. Mexico na
ang sigaw na ng pinoy:Philippines!Philippines!
Always look at the bright side and I see this an improvement of being proud to be Pinoy!
# 14 August 2007 at 8:52 am

Karl Garcia said:
If that is not concrete achievement from the common pinoy to you guys…..
what more do you want from the common pinoy!
(I was referring to pinoy pride and support,not to our winning over Mexico,which itself was a big achievement in its own!)
# 14 August 2007 at 8:58 am

benign0 said:
“Most of them left this country,too,not due to small mindedness of course,not to inferiority complex but due to a complex phenomenom”
I beg to differ.
There is really nothing complex about the reason Pinoys leave the islands.
It is quite simple.
People go to wherever the return is higher on the skills, effort, and thinking that they invest in whatever endeavour they pursue.
# 14 August 2007 at 9:06 am

benign0 said:
“I was referring to pinoy pride and support”
Pinoy pride and support? Hmmmm… Hindi yata nakaka-busog yan a.
And it certainly can’t pay for all those cheap celphone trinkets we love to import from China. I think we’d rather pay for those with OFW remittances.
# 14 August 2007 at 9:10 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“Me napansin ako sa pinoy pride..re:boxing
dati pag naglalaban si Morales o Barrera vs Paquiao.
sigaw ng mexican fans..Viva el Mehico!
sigaw ng Filipino fans:Manny,Manny!
Ngayon,dahil siguro world cup Philippes vs. Mexico na
ang sigaw na ng pinoy:Philippines!Philippines!
Always look at the bright side and I see this an improvement of being proud to be Pinoy!
from KARL!”
very inspiring! you just made my day! thanks!!!
# 14 August 2007 at 9:19 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“Filipinos are generally happier than other people, according to statistical expert Dr. Romulo Virola.
Virola, the National Statistical Coordination Board secretary-general, said Philippine suicide rates, as recorded by the World Health Organization, showed 2.5 male and 1.7 female Filipino suicides in every 100,000 cases, among the lowest in the world.
In his online column “Statistically Speaking” titled “Measuring Progress of Societies: Would You Rather Be Rich Or Would You Rather Be Happy?”, Virola said that from a scale of zero to 10, Filipinos’ happiness rating according to the World Database of Happiness was at 6.4, tying at the 40th to 43rd place with Czechoslovakia, Greece and Nigeria.”
# 14 August 2007 at 9:29 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
cvj, yeah. jz discovered that. i didn’t know putting a URL at the website box would do that. i thought it was jz a verification method (to find out if the email you typed in was valid…)
# 14 August 2007 at 9:58 am

Karl Garcia said:
Natutuwa naman ako Tagakotta,na inspire kita. BTW that compliment about your wit was very very sincere!
That small observation in boxing meant a lot me as well,because nainggit ako sa mga Mehikano na kahit talo ang manok nila ay proud pa rin na ibandera ang bandila nila. Tayo nuon sa tingin ko ang tunog ng Manny ay money!(balato)
# 14 August 2007 at 10:20 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“cvj, yeah. jz discovered that. i didn’t know putting a URL at the website box would do that. i thought it was jz a verification method (to find out if the email you typed in was valid…)” from Devil adv.
The point of Ecclesiastes is “Everything under the sun is vanity!”
# 14 August 2007 at 10:36 am

Jeg said:
benign0: If there is any childish behaviour going on here it’s in people who are unable to critique said ideas purely on the basis of (or lack of — if they can demonstrate so) their logical merit…
But benny, my good man, where are the ideas from you we’re supposed to critique? You havent presented any yet. And we’re still waiting.
# 14 August 2007 at 10:40 am

Jeg said:
Tagakotta: Virola said that from a scale of zero to 10, Filipinos’ happiness rating according to the World Database of Happiness was at 6.4, tying at the 40th to 43rd place with Czechoslovakia, Greece and Nigeria.”
A study I read – forgot the URL – offered a correlation between happiness and social capital. We still have a lot of it among the rural folk and to some extent with the urban poor communities. Among the middle class, social capital is at an ebb. They have this sort of siege mentality where they dont trust their neighbors.
# 14 August 2007 at 10:45 am

Karl Garcia said:
Ok Mr. Benigno
if it is that simple,then let us leave it as that a simple phenomenom called the higher the return ,the better.
Alright,sir!
# 14 August 2007 at 11:02 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“Why is the Filipino called Juan de la Cruz?”
# 14 August 2007 at 11:04 am

realist said:
Wow, patuloy ang bakbakan! Banat mga kapatid. Sana may makumbinsi sa bakbakan. Napansin niyo na siguro na yang three stooges e mga gloria fanatics.
Si gloria ba e pinoy? Alam natin na small siya, db?, Ok short, para kay bencard, short na pinay. Ano kaya big sa kanya, kung meron?
# 14 August 2007 at 11:12 am

Karl Garcia said:
Tagakotta,Kimosabe:
He was simply asking how to link his website to his name.
BTW:trivia yung dating blog ko me description na anything under the sun,if that is vanity…then I don’t wanna die coz as the song says”Vanity Kills”.
But look what it did to Belo and the likes,it made them rich,me iba sumabit at namatay na pasyente sa maling procedure pero mga peke daw sila..
# 14 August 2007 at 11:14 am

benign0 said:
Jeg, if you hadn’t noticed yet, here is the core idea behind the assertions I make in this particular thread:
Pinoys are devoid of imagination.
I broke that concept up further into a few quotes from some references in response to Manuel Buencamino’s challenge “No buddy. You prove your assertion, you present concrete examples and convincing arguments because you are the one making the claim” here:
http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1468#comment-559201
So wait no more, dude. It’s all in the table for everyone’s viewing pleasure.
# 14 August 2007 at 11:25 am

Jeg said:
Pinoys are devoid of imagination.
But that isnt an idea. That is a problem. (Yes Im aware you mean pinoys in general.) The idea we’re waiting for are those which propose to solve it.
Frankly, I dont think pinoys are devoid of imagination in a greater degree than their neighbors. It’s just that pinoy ideas are unappreciated by their fellow pinoys. I believe that is the problem we ought to be solving and not the one you posted.
# 14 August 2007 at 11:38 am

Jon Mariano said:
Now even Benign0 believes and lives his own ideas. He’s Pinoy, so he’s devoid of imagination. He’s standing on his self-made assertion even if he can’t prove it or support it with facts.
The fact is, there are Pinoys who are devoid of imagination. How do you count them and get the percentage against the overall population? There are Hong Kongers, Americans, Europeans, etc. who are also devoid of imagination. How do you count them too and get the percentage compared to their population?
# 14 August 2007 at 11:41 am

benign0 said:
“But that isnt an idea. That is a problem. (Yes Im aware you mean pinoys in general.) The idea we’re waiting for are those which propose to solve it.”
Nope.
It’s an idea.
Problems and solutions are just CLASSES of ideas. Kung baga:
(a) The IDEA that Pinoys are devoid of imagination is CONSIDERED to be a problem;
(b) The IDEA that education can contribute much to filling the imagination void in Pinoy society is CONSDIRED to be a solution.
Or i could also present it this way too:
On the basis of the IDEA that Pinoys collectively lack imagination, I make the assertions that (1) Pinoys lack originality, (2) are unable to grasp the bigger picture, and, therefore, (3) are unable to come up with sustainable solutions to their problems.
# 14 August 2007 at 11:56 am

Jeg said:
Fine. Consider it an idea. But it still isnt the idea we’re interested in. We’re interested in your idea that is CONSIDERED a solution.
Like I said, any schmoe can whine, complain, and point out what they see as the problem. You havent set yourself up as a schmoe, so we’re waiting for ideas from you. And the way youve marketed yourself, it better be a doozy.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:05 pm

benign0 said:
“He’s Pinoy, so he’s devoid of imagination”
I think this is a fallacious statement though.
When one makes a generalisation as I do (i.e. Pinoys are devoid of imagination), it does not necessarily follow that all members of the group which said generalisation describes NECESSARILY bear said generalised trait.
For example, when we say that German engineering prowess accounts for the excellent quality of Mercedes Benz cars, it does not necessarily follow that all Germans are excellent engineers or, for that matter, that all Germans are engineers.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:07 pm

cvj said:
Yeah yeah Benign0, but you’ve been saying the same thing for years and haven’t really gotten down to specifics. It does not take a ‘big mind’ to realize that we need education as part of the solution mix, but you have to flesh out your proposals. Considering that you’ve been around for years, it’s unfortunate that you haven’t really contributed beyond generalities – which is not efficient, not very productive and not very imaginative.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:09 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“Tagakotta,Kimosabe”from Karl Garcia
Oh my goodness. Guess who gets the last laugh on this one. I wonder how long the Native Americans have known this one and have kept their lips sealed while busting a gut inside. This is worse than the Kimosabe joke in which Tonto uses this name for his white-man friend, the Lone Ranger, letting him think it is an Indian name of great repute. Later, Kimosabe realizes that his nickname means “horse’s ass.”
# 14 August 2007 at 12:11 pm

benign0 said:
“Fine. Consider it an idea. But it still isnt the idea we’re interested in. We’re interested in your idea that is CONSIDERED a solution.”
I’m glad you asked!
I’ve got an entire PROPOSED solution framework drawn up to provide a kind of an architecture or roadmap to follow to systematically rid Pinoy society of its unproductive cultural baggage here:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/solution/framework.html
The first step, it seems would be to identify elements in that framework that have direct impact upon the problem assertion that Pinoys are devoid of imagination.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:15 pm

Jeg said:
That wasnt so hard, was it? Will check it out later. But, like I said, I dont think the lack of imagination is the problem, and you might be trying to solve the wrong problem. The problem is the underappreciation of pinoy ideas by their fellow pinoys. Our inventors for example have had to finance and market their own inventions (which isnt their expertise) since they dont get support from those professionals (financiers and marketers) that can help them.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:20 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
Beningno:you are one of the top contenders in my ” Pataasan ng ihi” P.N.I award.
keep it up!just don’t wet us!!!!
# 14 August 2007 at 12:22 pm

benign0 said:
“The problem is the underappreciation of pinoy ideas by their fellow pinoys”
I don’t think that lack of appreciation of Pinoy ideas is the problem. If that were so, then jeepneys Tito-Vic-and-Joey humour, the ocho-ocho, and adobo wouldn’t be the big hits that they are today.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:25 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
I don’t think that lack of appreciation of Pinoy ideas is the problem. If that were so, then jeepneys Tito-Vic-and-Joey humour, the ocho-ocho, and adobo wouldn’t be the big hits that they are today.
Keep it up!PNI top contender!
# 14 August 2007 at 12:26 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“The first step, it seems would be to identify elements in that framework that have direct impact upon the problem assertion that Pinoys are devoid of imagination.”benigNO
You’re so vain
You probably think this song is about you
You’re so vain
I’ll bet you think this song is about you
Don’t you? Don’t you?
# 14 August 2007 at 12:30 pm

Jeg said:
If that were so, then jeepneys Tito-Vic-and-Joey humour, the ocho-ocho, and adobo wouldn’t be the big hits that they are today.
I admit that the jeepney is inefficient and should be sent to ply the side-streets to support the rail-based mass transport we have and not to compete with it (a problem of political will, not creativity), but I dont have a problem with TitoVicandJoey humor. It makes pinoys laugh. And ocho-ocho? Uso pa ba yan sa Australia? Laos na dito yan.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:31 pm

Abe N. Margallo said:
Devils,
I have visited your blog. (Yeah, the tool works!) Well, I’m not sure if I can catch up with your brain wave. You are chimerical, quirky, far out, dreamy, fictive, crotchety, romantic, testy and of course way out IMAGINATIVE.
If Filipinos are “devoid of imagination,” you are proof that Bikolanos are not. (Hope no one berates me for “decentralizing” the race like amoeba.)
Uragon ka talaga noy.
Karl, salamat din. Mabalos. I’m really learning from your originative street-fighting. Just as from mb, cvj and now Jeg and tagakotta. Talagang mga Pinoy.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:38 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“everything under the sun is vanity..” – tagakotta, wahaha. kuhang-kuha mo bro. of course i wouldn’t deign to deny this one. guilty as charged your honor. the reason i write is bec its my therapy. the reason i blog is bec i wanna get famous. of course desire alone wouldn’t get me there. crap. it even remains to be seen if i even have anything to offer that anyone besides my wife will like. i used to abhor soliciting to be read, but that’s exactly what im doing eh? the shame of it all, reduced to begging… wahaha. don’t worry tagakotta, you didn’t offend me. you even made me laugh at myself. btw, am i included in ur PNI list? i hope im giving benny the run for his money… that’ll truly crack me up.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:45 pm

cvj said:
Benign0, i browsed at your ‘Solution Framework’ and it’s not a bad start. Except for the ‘use of english’ and ‘connect with the intelligentia’ portion, i find nothing objectionable with the recommendations. Since you came up with it five years ago (in August 2002) have you had a chance to flesh out each of the boxes?
BTW, in the context of your framework, opposition to Gloria (and her cheating) can be located in the box on the top left corner under ‘Right Philosophy’ i.e. ‘Create environment of trust’ and all the downstream effects that you identified. With this, i hope you understand where we are coming from and not just dismiss it as personality-oriented politics.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:46 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
benignO,
Forget Nick Joaquin. In your own words, what do you mean when you say that Filipinos lack originality? So what if Aldous Huxley said that Filipinos were the “least original”? What proof did he show. Just because he was Huxley, should we believe every word he said as gospel truth?
So what if I enjoy the benefits of the Mercedes Benz of the Germans, the Whirlpool freezer of the Americans, the Sony television set of the Japanese, or the Samsung camera of the Koreans? Do I have to reinvent the wheel every time I have a problem, just so I can be “original”?
In your own words, without quoting from anybody else, define what you mean by “originality” in a people.
Again, forget old and cold dead Nicky. In your own words, what do you mean by “lack of scale and regard for the bigger picture”. The tingi evidence is fallacious. In fact, it is an imaginative solution to a very real (as in: get real) problem. God help the Filipinos if stores didn’t sell tingi!
So, in your own words, not quoting anybody else, show me the evidence.
Why should I believe the opinion of “an admired Filipino economist based in New York” as gospel truth? Show me, in your own words and not quoting anybody else, the imperical evidence (not just an opinion) that Filipino = small mind.
I’m waiting.
# 14 August 2007 at 12:49 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
DevilADVs: your style is ok;straight from the heart!keep it up young man!
The main criteria for the PNI awards:
1)writes or blogs toIMPRESS others.
2)Listens only to HIS point of view.
3)craves for others’ attention by endless discussions about ocho-ocho! (pas·sé na iyan dito!)
# 14 August 2007 at 12:51 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Tagakotta,
I know ignorance excuses no one,no intention to call you that kung yan talaga ang ibig sabihin,was stuck with it meaning friend!
Siraulo pala yung mga nag produce ng the lone ranger eh! kundi ba naman sila %&&#@? producers of lone ranger,tarzan,since youve mentionmed it are all but supremacists, and ignorant at that.
I will refer to the long post of HVRDS about slavery and
whatnot.And also to Abe’s post on how Europeans survive in the tropics.
I have to apologize,deeply!
# 14 August 2007 at 12:51 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
KG: no prob! relax lang! take care of your high blood and diabetes!
1)Avoid stress
2)Listen to good music
3)Have a positive attitude!
4)Make fun of others(and yourself)
5)Enjoy sex.
Don’t worry you are not in my PNI list.
take care(as they say in French…”Inga’t)
# 14 August 2007 at 12:56 pm

benign0 said:
“Show me, in your own words and not quoting anybody else, the imperical evidence (not just an opinion) that Filipino = small mind”
I’m glad you asked!
I’ve got lots to say about this. But out of respect for MLQ3′s blog, I’m not really inclined to clog it up with my DETAILED thoughts on the matter.
I might refer you to my book instead which you can download at:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/book1
Specifically, check out the text on page 54 under the heading “Imagination capitalises wealth”.
# 14 August 2007 at 1:04 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
awww, tnx Abe. with my discovery (yeah, so stupid of me not to realize some poster’s names here are actually linkable), i’ve been visiting most of the peep’s blogs here. like back reading Manolo’s articles, it’ll take me time to finish browsing all of it. hope you weren’t offended that I called you “old.” wahehe. i was actually imagining you to be along Manolo’s age bracket. it also dawned on me (when cvj used a post’s permalink) that comment’s date and time here link to its permalink.
btw, kadakulon nagbibirikol digdi. hare baya, pira kita mga Bikolano digdi. Oragon talaga. incidentally, why have we never had a Bikolano president? if you go to Manolo’s presidency project (or something) you’ll notice most of our presidents come from northern Luzon, a few from Visayas, but none from southern Luzon and Mindanao. what’s up with that?
# 14 August 2007 at 1:05 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“btw, kadakulon nagbibirikol digdi. hare baya, pira kita mga Bikolano digdi. Oragon talaga. incidentally, why have we never had a Bikolano president?from Devil adv.”
Kit Tatad
Gringo Honasan
Joker Arroyo
Chiz Escudero
Sonny Trillanes
all Bicolanos,ex or current Senators,What else do they have in common(analyze and you will know the answer to your question!)
# 14 August 2007 at 1:13 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Abe,
Walang inumin,este walang anuman pala.
At Diyos Mabalos.
# 14 August 2007 at 1:14 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Devils,
si Roco sana eh,nataon lang madami masayado yung mga nakasabay nya on two ocassions.Tingnan lang nating itong LP NP rivalry kung ano mangyari,baka di rin mapunta kay Villar at Roxas ang slots. Malay mo isa sa mga ex and current Bicolano senator maging pres.
Bilog ang mundo.
# 14 August 2007 at 1:33 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
tagakotta, you forgot Raul Roco, also a former senator. as for what they have in common aside from that, beats me. other known politicians you missed are Lagman, Villafuerte (who really puts Bikolano’s name in shame) Andaya, Robredo.
KG, ang mali ni Roco, he wouldn’t sacrifice his principles for a shot at presidency. If he ran for VP either during the 98 or 2004 elections (which I believe he would’ve won), he would’ve been president when either sitting presidents (ERAP and GMA) were assailed with controversies. civil society then wouldn’t be too allergic to removing GMA and asking all that sino ipapalit promo. people were then telling him to run for it (VP), but he wouldn’t take it. He said he’d be too hypocritical and that he’d be failing those who were supporting him to run for president. even to his last breath, he stayed true to himself. that’s why even if it was apparent he’d lose, i still voted for him. whatever is my vote for if im jz going to waste it on someone i dnt believe in? and people who believe in practical voting are fools.
# 14 August 2007 at 1:53 pm

Jeg said:
Not bad at all, benny.
(1) Right philosophy — subscription to a philosophy (or set of philosophies) that will put said society in a collective state of mind that is conducive to sustainable prosperity.
(2) Efficient communication — a shared strength in a chosen language (proficiency of which is not monopolised by an elite class) that provides the society access to as big a body of knowledge as possible
(3) Wealth creation ethic — the capability to sustainably create and accumulate wealth domestically
Item 3 we can do something about immediately. Our policies are geared toward attracting foreign investors while at the same time not giving the same incentives for local investors. Item 2 would take some time but doable. Item 3 has to throw off years of division forced on pinoys from outside and from within. But economic prosperity would take care of that more or less. I mean look at the Belgians.
# 14 August 2007 at 2:02 pm

Jeg said:
btw, kadakulon nagbibirikol digdi. hare baya, pira kita mga Bikolano digdi.
My mother’s family is from Pili and Naga. Bikolano man giraray.
# 14 August 2007 at 2:04 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Dae siguro nindo aram, pero si Bencard Bicolano man yan.
# 14 August 2007 at 2:44 pm

ptt said:
Here’s another quick fix for “(3) Wealth creation ethic” the Filipino people should demand a reasonable way for aspiring entrepreneurs to set up shop. The people shouldn’t tolerate incompetence. Nobody seems to be pissed of at the idiotic and needless hassles of acquiring a business permit. It seems like people in general have accepted the layers of red tape as the norm. The initiation for most common folks trying to run a business happens when they realize why they need to bribe fire inspectors, city and barangay officials. We have dozens of activist groups and had Edsa rallies but I wonder, has there ever been a mass protest against a local clerk from the Registry of deeds or against a municipal government office for incompetent services?
# 14 August 2007 at 3:35 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
benignO,
Your book was an analysis of the ills of Philippine society as a whole – ills that are already widely known and acknowledged. Nothing original there.
But let me quote something that you said that, I believe, points to the area on which mitigation of most major problems will hinge:
“If Filipinos cannot even imagine a fundamentally different society that will underpin a prosperous
future, there can be no inspiration to drive deep systemic change. We have delegated the courage to dream and work at fulfilling these dreams to politics and our
politicians. This is a monumental tragedy because Filipinos lack any context to hold to account the politicians they elect to office.”
My reading is that you seem to denigrate the role of politics in bringing about a “society that will underpin a prosperous future…” And yet, you credit Lee Kuan Yew, a political leader, for the great transformation of Singapore. You cited the progress made by the Malaysians and the Chinese, but who were the catalysts of rapid development in Malaysia and China? They were the political leaders Mahathir and Deng Xiao Peng.
There is no lack of ordinary Filipinos dreaming of or imagining a “fundamentally different society that will underpin a prosperous future”. There are many pockets of excellence in the private sector that are products of visionary corporate leadership that prove that Filipinos have the imagination to attain world-class achievements. But unless political reforms are achieved that will enable a Filipino Lee Kuan Yew or a Mahathir to rise and forge a government that will work and create the needed structures and conditions, that will “drive deep systemic change”, that will unleash the Filipinos’ innate capacity for excellence, we won’t make any time soon the quantum leaps that our neighbors have made.
That’s why civil society must never tire in its political activism “to hold to account the politicians they (Filipinos) elect to office” as the first step on the road to that “fundamentally different society”.
That’s why civil society must never tire in confronting cheating, lying, and stealing in government, instead of just turning its head the other way and “moving on”. Otherwise, nothing will change. We will just be moving on to more of the same. But we are not getting any help from the Bencards, the Regos, and the Austeros.
You have the ideas of what ails the Filipino society, that a lot of other people already share.
Now, if only you can take a second look at how you market your ideas. Perhaps, you may want to take some lessons from the Cat.
# 14 August 2007 at 4:19 pm

rego said:
Benigno,
Congatulations. It was actually a nice that you were able to put all your ideas in a book. How I wish I have the time to read it now so I can give some reaction. But just the same Im getting a copy.
Another enteresting person that I believe should write a book too is HVRDS….
Or maybe shaman should write a book too , even just to refute all your ideas and present another point view. would’nt that be enteresting?
# 14 August 2007 at 4:46 pm

realist said:
So lumabas ang tunay na pakay ni benign0. gusto lang pala magbenta ng libro. bwahahahaha. ano yan walang gustong bumili kaya dito sa blog ni mlq3 mo gustong iadvertise.
may endorsement pa ni mlq3, thanks a lot for the warning. meron ka ba diyan? benign0, you’re a “big stinker!” bwahahaha.
# 14 August 2007 at 4:47 pm

realist said:
rego, ano kayo ni bencard, mga pala ni benign0? pare-pareho talaga kayong mga tagahanga ni gloria, mga tuta.
# 14 August 2007 at 4:52 pm

rego said:
“But we are not getting any help from the Bencards, the Regos, and the Austeros.”
———————————————————
Oh please shaman, you have no idea what we are doing outside these blogs just to be help in our own small way. Rather than asking help from us, how about presenting your own small undertaking that you believe can be help. Just to remind you, you dont have teh monopoly of a civil society involvement. I hope you are not just a non performing member of any of these civil society groups.
I dont know if you are aware, that I m very much involve in a college scholarship project for 7 years now. Which is the best that I can do in my sitiuation. But if you expect me to join any civil society groups to over throw a government. That will never happen. I believe much in educuation as one of at least alleviating poverty. so I believe educating poor but deserving youths is one to help.
I dont know too if you are aware Bong Austero is very much involve in helping HIV victims and prevention. He is I believ is holding a top position in Remdios AIDS Foundation.
I dont know about Bencard, but a nice and decent person as he is, Im sure he also doing his share.
Ikaw shaman can you tell us what have been doing to help? Aber nga?
# 14 August 2007 at 5:08 pm

rego said:
Im waiting shaman!
# 14 August 2007 at 5:12 pm

rego said:
realist, im very sorry pero dont expect na patulan kita sa yong kababawan…you better look for other people that will stoop down so low to your level. alrighty???
# 14 August 2007 at 5:14 pm

Bokyo said:
I agree with S of M.
I believe we should concentrate first with improving the efficiency of our law enforcement, justice and electoral system. I am also dreaming of a society wherein we are all free and can do our best and being kept honest by efficient enforcement of laws and justice system. The same is true with choosing our leaders and the path we should push through. Walang mangyayari kung magkakampi-kampihan at magtatakipan lang tayo.
# 14 August 2007 at 5:15 pm

The Ca t said:
kung kamong mga lalaki oragon, pano naman akong babaye, oragan?
# 14 August 2007 at 5:21 pm

realist said:
wow, rego must be special. malalim ka ba? masakit mabisto, ha. magaling-galingan ka man, ang bottom line ng parada mo e BULOK din. alam mo yan diba. garbage in garbage out. lagyan mo ng pabango ang baho mo, mabaho pa rin. hehehe.
ganitong klaseng comment style ang bagay sa inyong tatlo ni bencard at benign0. small mind pinoys, eh!
# 14 August 2007 at 5:26 pm

realist said:
rego,
di mo ko kaya, tuts.
# 14 August 2007 at 5:29 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Rego, it’s in the context of your opposition to make the Gloria administration accountable for all its wrongdoings. I’m sure you are making a great contribution in your professional and personal life.
Again, unless there is a “hotstove” discipline at the highest levels of our political life, where wrongdoings are penalized with unrelenting consistency and immediacy, we can never realize that “fundamentally different society that will underpin a prosperous future” that benignO is talking about.
# 14 August 2007 at 5:44 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Garong bakong magayon, Cat, as in “Oragan taka!”
# 14 August 2007 at 5:51 pm

benign0 said:
Shaman,
“Widely known and acknowledged” nga ba? Judging by the conduct of a number of people here it seems Pinoys haven’t even gotten past the denial stage yet. It seems many still can’t handle the truth.
Regarding what you said about the achievement of Mahathir, Lee, and Deng, yes they are “political leaders” but if you look closely at what underpins the achievement, you will see that Lee and Deng are both leaders of largely ethnic Chinese communities, and Malaysia’s economy is propped up primarily by ethnic Chinese business. In fact his issue was mainly with how to bring the majority ethnic Malay “bhumiputras” up to speed so that they could be on an equal footing with the ethnic Chinese minority of his country). Refer to his lament of the continued lag of ethnic Malay performance despite his efforts:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/17-1-newmalay.html
==========
Excerpt:
“The answer lies in the culture of the Malays. They are laid-back and prone to take the easy way out. And the easy way out is to sell off whatever they get and ask for more. This is their culture. Working hard, taking risks and being patient is not a part of their culture. It should be remembered that in the past the Malays were not prepared to take up the jobs created by the colonial powers in their effort to exploit the country.
Because the Malays were not prepared to work in rubber estates and the mines, the Indians and Chinese were brought in. At one time, the migrants outnumbered the Malays. Had they continued to outnumber the Malays, independent Malaya would be like independent Singapore.”
==========
So it may be some comfort to you that whilst the problem of Pinoys in general are not unique, they are issues nonetheless. And the reality is that we will never prosper as a society unless we face these issues squarely.
Regarding the Ca t, I owe her much of the knowledge I gained on the true extent of the underbelly of the Pinoy psyche. This is a whole different story which is immortalised in this article:
http://www.apmforum.com/columns/orientseas47.htm
Cheer-yo!
# 14 August 2007 at 5:54 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“has there ever been a mass protest against a local clerk from the Registry of deeds or against a municipal government office for incompetent services?” – ptt, none. but there has been a very hot outburst of emotion (courtesy of yours truly) and an equally motivated public servant (SSS) suddenly “enlightened” as to what doing her job really means. what most of us lack is enough spine to fight for our rights. pinoys, accustomed to centuries of colonial rule, have been bred to be servile, even when rudeness and people obviously undeserving of respect slap them smack on their faces. i think we should kill politeness in cases where it clearly does not benefit us. tang ina, paghintayin ka ba naman ng isang oras, magsa sabi ka pa ba ng “please” sa kanya? swerte lang sya kung mura lang abutin nya sakin eh. oh sya ineng, ipalaganap ang ebanghelyo ni Avdc8. Murahin at bastusin ang mga di kagalang-galang sa gobyerno. Amen.
# 14 August 2007 at 6:09 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
benigO,
Widely known and acknowledged are the ills of Philippine society (what society does not have problems?), but what is unacceptable is your view that makes Filipinos a congenitally inferior race because of these problems.
So, why is it that despite the ethnic Chinese control of business in Malaysia before Mahathir, the economy languished? The answer was found in astute political leadership. Chinese business control, per se, did not bring about rapid economic development.
If you will look closely at the Philippine economy, the ethnic Chinese domination is almost complete. They are not called “taipans” for nothing. But, then again, why isn’t the economy shooting through the roof? Look at the political leadership and you’ll understand why.
All those issues confronting us won’t be tackled squarely unless we first win the battle for wide-ranging reforms in our political life.
# 14 August 2007 at 6:34 pm

The Ca t said:
Have I known that Benigno is going to paste that ugly flow chart of him, I should have saved my rebutall on that issue five years ago.
I just remembered that it was the time I realized that he knows nothing about cause and effect and he has to be lectured in flow charting and other chartmaking.
Regarding the forum that he always links in this forum, I have never been ashamed of what I did to that expat who thought that just because his article about Cebu prostitutes got a lot of hits, he was already a popular writer. He did not realize that his business articles were never popularly read. Essays and articles with keywords that insinuate sex and women paid by the hour for pleasure will always attract traffic. Some celebrity blogs are in top list because of their sexy photos of the celebrities.
Why don’t you link also the museum of hoaxes where my name would be forever etched?
# 14 August 2007 at 6:52 pm

Bencard said:
shaman, i don’t think we are lacking in “hotstove” treatment of our leaders at the highest levels. most, if not all, of our presidents had faced the harsh judgment of public opinion (both just and unjust)and made to account for actual and perceived wrongdoings not only by him/herself but by people around him/her. some, like quezon, roxas, and magsaysay died in office under tragic circumstances and were spared the penetrating scrutiny of a judgmental public. some were definitely deserving of their fate, and some others are still awaiting the verdict of history. i reserve my judgment on pgma, and hope she will continue doing well till 2010 for the good of all of us.
btw, bicolano man nang gad ako (camarines sur). ca’t,
ma -urag ka!
# 14 August 2007 at 6:59 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
peace to all bloggers!!!Be it strong views or opposing opinions…
Be it brilliant or outlandish schemes…
Be it truth seekers or just the plain curious
All these and more are welcome in my online office.
More than just a venue for finding out more about my public and personal life or the latest news on the campaign trail, consider this as a free zone for exchanges of ideas and insights. I appreciate hearing anything and everything from you.
Huwag kayong pumayag na manood,pumalakpak, ngumiti at kumaway sa isang gilid lamang. Sana’y makilahok kayo sa paghubog ng ating kasaysayan.
Sincerely,
say cheese
# 14 August 2007 at 7:12 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“”The problem with the Americans is that they are overpaid, oversexed, and over here.””
Miriam Defensor Santiago quote
# 14 August 2007 at 7:17 pm

benign0 said:
“Have I known that Benigno is going to paste that ugly flow chart of him, I should have saved my rebutall on that issue five years ago.”
Oh are talking about your famous tililing rampages of those days?
And I don’t think I have a flow chart of me, much less an ugly one (or is that just your appalling grammar at work again?). What I do have is a flowchart illustrating the solution framework that may underpin a prosperous future for Pinoy society.
# 14 August 2007 at 7:36 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“benign0 :What I do have is a flowchart illustrating the solution framework that may underpin a prosperous future for Pinoy society. ”
Keep it up ,your pomposity makes you the top contender for my “PATAASAN NG IHI” award!
# 14 August 2007 at 8:22 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“GMA’s spinal cord is made of titanium — it will never break. Ganyan siya katibay. She’s never the type, like me, who will reach the point who will hold up my hands and say, ‘That’s it. I’ve drawn the line. I’ve crossed it.”
Senator MIRIAM DEFENSOR SANTIAGO
# 14 August 2007 at 8:28 pm

rego said:
Shaman,
Im stil waiting shaman on what have you done or have been doing to be help to this country.What are the progress so far? If politocs is your cup OK, just share it to this forum. How you were able to be of help. Be as academic like hvrds if you want…
I think Manolo and CVJ, already mentioned a while ago that my our scholarship project is irrelevant to the political sitiuation. But, our group beg to differ. We we believe by arming poor and deserving students education we are giving a good fighting chance in life….
I dont have a very specific issue with Gloria that would convince me to join your civil society group that seek to ovethrow Gloria. I already have my own group which I help found, a huge group really although they are not as noisy as your group. Im still very happy with my group for 9 years now.
My stand about Gloria has been very clear at the start. Follow the process defined in the constitution in removing a president………
# 14 August 2007 at 9:17 pm

rego said:
Ca T, Benigs
There is so much animosity between the two of you. Para kayong cat and dogs . Curious toluy ako kung kelan nag simula yan. Mukhang matagal na….
Anyways I like you both….
# 14 August 2007 at 9:28 pm

vic said:
Quote from Tommy Douglas when asked why he declined an offer from then PM of the day to switch Party in exchange of a “Juicy Job” (he belonged to a Socialist Party and the Government was Liberal) his reply was.
“I was not interested in getting power unless you can do something about this power. I have watched politicians for last 40 years drop their principles to get power, only to find that those who controlled the Party that they joined prevented them from doing all the things that the really believed in”. Tommy Clement Douglas (l904-l986) The Greatest Canadian…
For more of Great Ideas and how to put them to work, take a look at the life of this Great Man…
# 14 August 2007 at 9:50 pm

cvj said:
Rego, i did not say your group’s scholarship project was irrelevant. At that time you told me about it, what i actually said was:
Rego, actions speak louder than words, so on balance, you and your group may actually be doing more for our country than the average Filipino of similar means.
What i took issue with was the ideology of your ‘silent revolutionaries’ who believe that you can make government and politics irrelevant. I explained to you that:
…the ideology you and your group promotes – that of making government and politics irrelevant, is self-defeating. While there are areas where collective action can be done through NGO’s and other private initiatives, there are limits to this approach. In any case, NGO’s and private initiatives work better when supported by an environment that has a just and responsive government.
As it turns out, Danton Remoto, who was one of the leaders of your group, became one of the victims of the very political system that you wish to make irrelevant.
# 14 August 2007 at 10:06 pm

DuckVader said:
Benigno:
Where did you get the empirical basis for this assertion:
“no culture of saving and accumulating surpluses for the winter (our climate stays the same all year round).”
Please show me a study that links climate to the savings rate. Because if you take a look at indicators of southeast asian economies, you will see that the really hot countries like Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand have very high gross domestic savings rate. And that savings rates have gone up and down, if you’ll notice, which means that they’re based on other variables. Because last I looked Vietnam was as hot in the 1990s as when I was there just a month ago. But their savings rate shot up from 2% to 30%. Would liberalization and development have something to do with it? My sense is savings rate are influenced more by proper capital market and development policies, rather than the weather.
http://www.adb.org/Documents/Books/Key_Indicators/2007/default.asp
# 14 August 2007 at 10:38 pm

Karl Garcia said:
Tuloy natin ito hanggang 2010 campaign,ibigay natin sa mga candidato…joke
me isa pang tama sa sinabi ni Benigno…kawawang pinoy!
Di ba nakakabusog ang pride at support? kung ganyang ang sinasabi mo araw na ginawa ng diyos,paano nga tayo aangat
with out pride and support.
Kawawa nga ang pinoy kung di man lang nila maipagmamalaki ang ginawa nila o ng kababayan nila.
What about your theories,and your book did it not need pride and support,hindi ka ba nabusog? O baka nga hindi,did it sell on its own,is it for a non-profit foundation?
It took more than two hundred entries to get at least one percent of us to take a look at your idea you call a solution ,nabusog ka ba sa pride mo and support na naibigay sa iyo?
# 14 August 2007 at 11:27 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
KG:tama ka pare!
Kaysa sarap maging Pinoy sa sariling bayan natin!
Ingit lang ang iba!(lol)
# 14 August 2007 at 11:45 pm

tagakotta de cebu said:
“Masarap maging Pinoy sa sariling bayan natin!”
# 14 August 2007 at 11:47 pm

Karl Garcia said:
1) Right philosophy —
Philosophy is the love for wisdom,if it does not contain any wisdom how can it be called philosophy.
So what exactly is right philosophy?
(2) Efficient communication — I worked in a call center and communication barriers cannot be avoided even by the so called best of them,some how meron pa din ditortion along the way.
Don’t call english elistist,if you want to get real,it is impossible to promote Tagalog as the common language,because many will object,so English even if it does not sound nationalistic is the most common denominator.If mode of instruction in scools the native dialect should be forgotten even for the the formative years.
(3) Wealth creation ethic —
Eto matagal na sana nating na optimize kung wala lag kumontra.
Abaca was very abundant,then sayang di natin na optimize.
We were better than the Thais in terms of rice.
Ngayon sa bio fuels.pakakawalan pa ba natin ito.
We already lead in coconut production.
Sa ethanol,pwede din
Mining,sabagay mas maraming disatster kesa proof of environmental friendly ways of doing it,although claimed to be isolated ang accidents; just make them environment friendly and many will accept.
madami pang laman ang small mind ko,pero di bale na lang,I will just enjoy my sex life,instead.
# 15 August 2007 at 12:00 am

Karl Garcia said:
correction(self)
di naman pwede palampasin:the native dialect should not be forgotten even just during the formative years.
Tagakotta,will heed your advice ang good night!
# 15 August 2007 at 12:09 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
Just finished reading Benigno’s “Solution Framework.” I thought of saying a lot of things, but decided to keep it to myself (as of now). Well, to Benigs and the GetRealists, I hope all of you find some time in the future to all go back home to your native land and try to oversee the implementation of your “Solution Framework.” It sounds really good. While at it, you should continue breaking it down till you have it to specifics, step by step, etc.
To go back to this blog post’s original question: will dissociating business from politics be for the better?
maybe the question we should ask is: can we?
The US of A would be a great case study. A nation with very strong institutions, slowly being ground into dust by one stupid man, and his neocon friends.
Keep off politics you say?
Everything is politics my dear friend. Even the war bet heaven and hell.
# 15 August 2007 at 1:08 am

cvj said:
Devils, and if i may reinforce your point by quoting below a passage from economist Dani Rodrik who in his blog, talks about two schools of thought for countries such as the Philippines who are in the shadow of China. The first approach follows a path similar to what David Llorito prescribes:
For countries such as the Philippines, without a big arsenal for public investment, policy recommendations from most business people for competing with China involve no magic elixir. Governments should improve logistics, infrastructure, the business climate and education; try, possibly, to spot specialities emerging and support them, but otherwise get out of the way. They warn against governments crashing into the market having decided what the economy is likely to be good at and then promoting it at all costs.
Rodrik does not agree with the above and instead recommends an alternative approach:
The other school (which includes me) thinks that by following this route you not only remain in a rut, but you also miss out on the most important lesson from China’s success: the need for the government to be strategic (and yes also flexible) in supporting industries. Yo do need an industrial policy–but…not of the traditional type.
He then links to his paper “Industrial Policy For The Twenty-First Century, Dani Rodrik, Harvard University, September 2004” (available online) which describes the latter approach in detail.
# 15 August 2007 at 1:32 am

Karl Garcia said:
“Everything is Politcs”
Don’t go as far as heaven and hell,just look at your home.
There are lobbyists,law makers, decision makers and judges,and the whole nine yards.
# 15 August 2007 at 7:45 am

Karl Garcia said:
“To go back to this blog post’s original question: will dissociating business from politics be for the better?”
Quick answer:lobbyists and the law makers.
Bussiness seeking mayor’s permits,etc.
Don’t tell me it is only in the Philippines. Tell me that and I will tell you, “GET REAL”.
ure in Australia,you can get a permit within minutes,but tell me if certain “system failures”,would sudenly change that to days.
# 15 August 2007 at 7:51 am

Karl Garcia said:
As I have said I have worked with Australians before,not in Australia but in the Port Area,and don’t tell me it is a when in Rome thing,when they do business here.
And when I say system failure,I may mean accidental or otherwise.
And when system failure happens in the ports we rely on I.B.M meaning ibalik sa manual.
# 15 August 2007 at 7:57 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
“And that’s the beauty of all the reactions I get whenever I publish my brilliant assertions. The reactions merely highlight further the very points I make. BENIGN0″
I like you fighting spirit hijo.If you know no one will
praise you,you praise yourself!
# 15 August 2007 at 8:20 am

Karl Garcia said:
Here is what can help in your solution framework an ealy ninties management fad called system thinking. I have to rely on good old wikipedia just to get the definition.
“Systems thinking is an approach to integration that is based on the belief that the component parts of a system will act differently when isolated from the system’s environment or other parts of the system. Standing in contrast to Descartes’ and others’ reductionism and philosophical analysis, it proposes to view systems in a holistic manner. Consistent with systems philosophy, systems thinking concerns an understanding of a system by examining the linkages and interactions between the elements that comprise the entirety of the system.
Systems thinking attempts to illustrate that events are separated by distance and time and that small catalytic events can cause large changes in complex systems. Acknowledging that an improvement in one area of a system can adversely affect another area of the system, it promotes organizational communication at all levels in order to avoid the silo effect. Systems thinking techniques may be used to study any kind of system — natural, scientific, engineered, human, or conceptual.”
*******************************************************
This is why I understand most who argue against the sweeping generalizations,you make and also why I understand your holistic approach.
It is a good start,though
after that ibenta natin yung ideas mo sa isang kandidato sa 2010.
PS
Bencard…
since you are a democrat…sa tingin mo ba dapat tanggalin ang outsourcing na maraming pinoy ang nakikinabang sa ngayon.
Or just separate business from politics.
I forgot to acknowledge that you agreed on some of my points earlier,and you know I was exaggerating on the alcoholism part..
# 15 August 2007 at 8:22 am

Karl Garcia said:
Bencard,
Sorry for the wrong punctuation marks.
# 15 August 2007 at 8:31 am

benign0 said:
“Congatulations. It was actually a nice that you were able to put all your ideas in a book. How I wish I have the time to read it now so I can give some reaction. But just the same Im getting a copy”
rego, no problemo, dude. Just read it at your leisure.
-
“It took more than two hundred entries to get at least one percent of us to take a look at your idea you call a solution ,nabusog ka ba sa pride mo and support na naibigay sa iyo?”
One thing’s for sure, you can keep guessing ’til kingdom come about what my PERSONAL motives are for doing what I do and writing what I write. But at the end of the day, regardless of what you find out or don’t find out about why and how I do these things, the ideas I present are either valid or invalid regardless. So if you are going to make a hobby out of coming up with conjectures about what makes me tick, well, that’s YOUR prerogative, dude.
-
Devil, that was actually the intention — to bring the “framework” to the next level of detail. Trouble is, concept and framework level pa lang, di na magka-sundo (ironic, considering that many here say that these ideas are all “Widely known and acknowledged”).
# 15 August 2007 at 8:41 am

Karl Garcia said:
“A Solution Framework that aims to address the cultural dysfunction of the Philippine Nation hinges on three solution classes. These classes represent the key roadblocks to change at the cultural grassroots level of Philippine society (in contrast with the more often-highlighted political roadblocks which to a large extent have merely cured the symptoms of our cultural malaise).
(1) Right philosophy
(2) Efficient communication
(3) Wealth creation ethic
*********************************************
bahala ng masali sa PNI awards mukhang I am in good company naman eh.
*****************
Tama si Cat,where is the Cause and effect here?
Is the cause cultural dysfunction…effecting to what,if I may ask? (everything in the flowchart?tapos to follow pa yung iba.)
To follow pa yung ibang problema that is solved by the three mentioned mentioned above?!
that is why I suggest the systems thinking approach,cause and effect and archetypes,d systems thinking,organizational learning and as Peter Senge et al’s book says is to dance with change.
Sayo Solution first and the rest of the problems it can solve will follow is that what you call a framework?
Again with assistance of pareng wiki,not that I don’t have other sources.
“Conceptual framework:
A conceptual framework is used in research to outline possible courses of action or to present a preferred approach to an idea”
Not the other around ,my dear brilliant man.
# 15 August 2007 at 9:07 am

ratatouille said:
Usually, we start with ideas, then the Plan of Action or Action Plans, then financing source if needed, result expectations and then actual results. only then we can judge if those ideas really worthwhile. sabi ni daga…
# 15 August 2007 at 9:19 am

Karl Garcia said:
O baka naman mali ako at yun nga ang ginawa mo,
OK you used the alternative courses of action approach,displayed in the flow chart
pero puro solution,how do you demystify cultural dysfunction,what lead to it.
You don’t have to go far as the precolonial years.
Kahit mahaba,I think HVRDS explained it better.
Prof.Hiro Vaswani,you have been an idol since way back.
# 15 August 2007 at 9:26 am

Karl Garcia said:
Benigs,
This is just one blog entry.And you call several entries a hobby,now that is also a conjecture.
i have not disagreed in enirety with you,because I know we are human and we can’t be right or wrong all the time.
I do not guess or conclude,on what your motives are or what the hell it is for…
As to conjectures,I do not judge or guess a person based on the entries found in cyberspace…kung me tirahan dito pag nagkita ba sa labas yan magsusuntukan yan di naman siguro.
Kahit mga artista na nakita natin sa sine,ibanaman sila sa personal di bah. Kahit na yung mga so- called open book daw me mga sikreto din yan.
My raising the issue about pride and support as to whether it is nakakabusog,is a reaction to what you said about my entry,which I apologize for such a childish reaction.
tama na nga,enough said.
# 15 August 2007 at 9:48 am

benign0 said:
“My raising the issue about pride and support as to whether it is nakakabusog,is a reaction to what you said about my entry,which I apologize for such a childish reaction.”
No problemo, Karl. It’s all about the issues, not the people (in a perfect world, that is).
# 15 August 2007 at 10:00 am

Karl Garcia said:
Benigs,
Thanks for acknowledging.
I have to apologize as well for the other points and questions I raised that you might have found offensive.
Mabuhay ka!
# 15 August 2007 at 10:08 am

Bencard said:
karl, business vs. politics? i think business will beat politics anytime, anywhere with one hand tied on its back. i think in america, as well as in the philippines (or elsewhere), big business is the invisible government to which the visible one must pay homage to. it will take a long dissertation to analyze and explain this point. suffice it to say, for now, that most, if not all philippine, as well as american, politicians kowtow to big business to acquire and retain power.
i have grave misgivings about whether outsourcing will be curtailed in america. it works and works well for big business. it will raise a big stink should such a proposal
be formally made. and, i believe, big business will prevail.
# 15 August 2007 at 10:08 am

cvj said:
Bencard, i agree with your description above on the power relations between business and politics (so will Marx), although i have a hunch that we will differ when it comes to its normative implications.
On outsourcing, i agree with your take as well. Back in 2003, i attended a Company function in the US and our Chairman told us that outsourcing/offshoring is a reality that everyone has to accept. Of course that delegation from India was delighted and i suppose our American and European counterparts were not. As India becomes more mature (and labor starts to get expensive), we in the Philippines are starting to fall within the radar. If we play our cards right, this will result in thousands (or even tens of thousands) of new jobs. (Puwera usog.)
# 15 August 2007 at 10:51 am

Abe N. Margallo said:
cvj,
If I may parse what Rodnik said in the context of our present exchange, what’s needed in order for the Philippines to join the big-timers in the big world out there, are:
1) Not necessarily for the small guys to think big as a condition precedent but for the bigwigs (the political leadership, the economic elites and the technocrats) to think big TOGETHER. However, during this process of big thinking, the petty Pinoy of the tingi mentality must be given a bigger voice than usual, allowing the Bayanihan spirit thus generated to legitimate the process.
2) The taipans must realize that low private returns from vigorous entrepreneurship in new activities may be compensated by high social returns. This demands of the economic elites a high “sense of country.”
In earlier post I have also noted: “The key to economic progress is somehow attitudinal too and this happens when economic men and political animals judge such progress to be good not only for the material comfort it brings forth for their pioneering spirit but also for national identity and dignity, the welfare of the next generation and the common good.”
Historically, according to Rostow, the decisive ingredient during the transition is the building of an “effective centralized national state” imbued with a “new nationalism” versus regional interests, the colonial power (if any), or both. When growth becomes steady and normal and institutionalized into habits and social structure and dominates the society, takeoff is said to occur. Likewise, Rostow postulated, takeoff is spurred not only by the investment in “social overhead capital” (such as in railways, ports, roads or education) and the expansion of technological development in industry and agriculture, but also by the rise to political power of a group dedicated to the proposition that the modernization of the economy is a national goal of paramount order.
# 15 August 2007 at 11:10 am

Abe N. Margallo said:
I mean Rodrik.
# 15 August 2007 at 11:15 am

Jeg said:
Historically, according to Rostow, the decisive ingredient during the transition is the building of an “effective centralized national state” imbued with a “new nationalism” versus regional interests, the colonial power (if any), or both.
Interesting. Would it therefore be necessary to manufacture the effective centralized national state if one didnt exist? How does one do that in the Philippines without resorting to government via strongman?
# 15 August 2007 at 11:24 am

cvj said:
Abe, i agree. Rodrik emphasizes that industrial policy is needed to facilitate coordination to, among other things, remove information externalities and encourage the creation of markets. As you say, it is the big guys (the economic and political elites) that are in a position to do this.
Rodrik explains that industrial policy has to be a process of exploration and discovery between government and business which necessarily involves winners and losers which is why it is counterproductive to have either (1) a completely arms-length relationship between government and business or a (2) a too-cozy relationship between politican and business crony. The former will not help in the process of identifying which business ventures to go into while the latter will just encourage rent-seeking in place of engagin in productive activity.
I agree that ‘sense of country’ is important. During the 1998 financial crisis in South Korea, you had ordinary citizens coming forward and offering their personal jewelry to save their country from default. While, objectively speaking, it was a futile gesture, it demonstrates the same sense that enabled them to achieve what they have.
Jeg, whether democratic or authoritarian, the problem to be solved is the same – discovery of profitable business ventures and coordination on a national scale. So to answer the question, we have to determine which system is best able to foster coordination and discourage rent-seeking (and therefore encourage productive activities).
One thing i know is that unless we are willing to trust the current political-business elite, then maintaining a mindset of making government and politics irrelevant is the wrong philosophy to follow.
# 15 August 2007 at 11:54 am

Jeg said:
Thanks, cvj.
And I agree with the last bit. Making government and politics irrelevant is a goal of government, not the citizens.
# 15 August 2007 at 12:11 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Rego,
I don’t have to justify myself to you. Suffice it to say that if I’ve been into granting of scholarships longer than your seven years. Professionally, I’m in senior management level in a group of companies (Filipino) that has an annual turnover in hundreds of million pesos and employs thousands of our countrymen. I’m not going to be provoked into an “achievement race” with you. I don’t intend to join tagakotta’s pataasan ng ihi. Deal with my views and ideas, not with my person. It’s the mature thing to do.
I advocate government accountability, regardless of who the President is, Gloria or someone else. My main issue with Gloria is that she refuses to be accountable to the people.
I’m for constitutional processes. Impeachment is a constitutional process, but it should be honored in its spirit, not in its letter. It’s in the constitution precisely to make a President account for his/her actions, not to play a numbers game.
# 15 August 2007 at 12:26 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Bencard,
Hotstove discipline means making the President account for his/her individual acts. We can’t wait until a President finishes his/her term to make him/her account for his/her acts. That would be too late.
As I’ve told Rego, impeachment is the constitutional process to make a President account for his/her individual acts, not on account of, but despite public opinion. Gloria has the propensity to act unconstitutionally, but she has not been impeached. The hotstove has gone cold on her.
We could just imagine if Marcos was allowed to finish his term (until his death). How could he be made to account for his acts?
# 15 August 2007 at 12:41 pm

Abe N. Margallo said:
Jeg,
A strongman?
I have instead rooted for a “revolutionary government” possibly in the nature of what Rostow has called the “transitional coalition” of intellectuals, soldiers and business leaders sharing one common conviction, which is the creation of an independent modern state.
Here’s a old and pertinent entry of mine:
_________
When many saw President Arroyo to be at the end of her tether [because of “Garci” tapes debacle], a transition government or a provisionary council of varied composition was also proposed. More than anything, the revolutionary nature of that proposal is what won me over to it as against “snap elections” as the immediate alternative for a post Arroyo government.
Why would my own instinct go against my entrenched belief in People Power democracy? Well, the self-contradiction was merely more apparent than real.
Firstly, I thought and wrote that GMA without declaring a revolutionary government “(lost) one great window of opportunity by balking to fully legitimize People Power II and to venture into a fresh start, preferring to look backwards to the status quo ante . . . .” Indeed, as quickly as she was swept to power, GMA lost no time recoiling to employ extraordinary powers to put the house of the state in order the way she is determined today to avail of similar methods to ensure her political survival. It was a great disappointment.
Secondly, I believe a revolutionary route is the best imperfect solution to the long-standing scourge of the nation and that a piecemeal, painful, slow and deadly approach to the monstrosity of the problem would fail as any other incremental attempts before. Think about it again, do not the extreme destitution, desperation, and powerlessness of tens of millions of Filipinos deserve the use of extreme measures? But against whom should extraordinary powers be exercised? The state employs coercive actions against street marchers or labor strikers. Should the same strong-arm tactics be used against senseless and heartless capital strikers and fly-by-night operators? Whose liberty it is that is protected when the rights of others to seek redress for grievances are trampled upon in the name of commerce, for instance?
Thirdly, I draw certain philosophical parallelism BETWEEN the belief of some in the value of limited (versus universal) suffrage, that is, limited only to those who have a stake in the system (the stakeholders so-called) to the exclusion of the uneducated and the unpropertied until the latter earn and learn enough to become stakeholders themselves AND the idea of political sovereignty being withheld, albeit temporarily (hence, the preference for the establishment of a revolutionary government to the holding of status-quo-preserving snap elections), if only to hasten and secure direly needed political, social and economic reforms.
When political, social and economic resources are distributed, the attainment of true political capacity for fully qualified citizens cannot be far behind.
________
The transitional coalition is a short-term goal in the attainment of a longer-term vision of an independent modern Philippine state of free Filipinos associated with one another on terms of equality.
# 15 August 2007 at 1:35 pm

Jeg said:
Thanks Abe. That is a bitter pill, but Im afraid we have indeed come to that point. There is nothing in what you wrote I could disagree with except for the participation of ‘soldiers’ but I suppose your revolutionary government needs muscle to match its heart and mind. Im assuming of course, having read your comments before, that this revolutionary government will not curtail the rights of the citizens.
I dont remember who said it but he said we’re fond of doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results each time. I think he was talking about our representative democracy.
When I read an interview the late Teddy Benigno had with Ninoy in Boston and he reported that Ninoy said that he wouldve done the same thing Marcos did (form a revolutionary government) I thought it was time for a re-examination of Marcos’s justification for his coup d’etat and examining what both he and Ninoy saw. Alas, Marcos turned into a despot, and whatever he saw then, no one wants to look at now for fear of being associated with his legacy.
# 15 August 2007 at 2:16 pm

cvj said:
Abe, effective transitional arrangements assume that wisdom is concentrated on a subset of the Filipino population and that power is best wielded by this subset. It also assumes that such wisdom will not leave them once this select group attains power. In Philippine Society, while the former assumption is debatable, the latter is untenable.
# 15 August 2007 at 2:29 pm

rego said:
Shaman,
Precisely, you same way that I am not answerable to you.
And mahirap sa yo. Pinagmamalaki mo ang sarili sa pamamagitan ng pag hahanap ng mag naitulong namin. Pero ano naman ang ginawa. Ano naman ang naitulong mo?
You are deluding yourself that have the monopoly of the your advocacy. Your advocacy is everybody advocacy. Sino ba ang ayaw ng government accountability dito sa forum na eto.
So what have you been doing to promote your advocacy. Any plan of action? And progress? If bengino provided his solution framework, where are yours.
And what help do you need from us?
# 15 August 2007 at 2:40 pm

Jeg said:
effective transitional arrangements assume that wisdom is concentrated on a subset of the Filipino population and that power is best wielded by this subset.
Referring to our past discussion on suffrage, I take a slightly different tack: power is best conferred by this subset to those whom they choose to wield it.
# 15 August 2007 at 2:45 pm

benign0 said:
“I draw certain philosophical parallelism BETWEEN the belief of some in the value of limited (versus universal) suffrage, that is, limited only to those who have a stake in the system …
…When political, social and economic resources are distributed, the attainment of true political capacity for fully qualified citizens cannot be far behind”
One of the things Lee Kuan Yew focused on in the early days was to get as many citizens as possible owning (or at least paying off) their own properties.
There is no better way to get people to have a stake in the way things are run than to give them not just a sense of ownership but ACTUAL ownership of the system they are part of. This is the reason why many companies have employee shareholding plans and stuff like that.
Maybe that’s the reason why Manila is such a dump — because a big chunk of the population there is made up of squatters and dumpster scavengers.
The real issue though is why Pinoys don’t seem to see themselves as stakeholders in our governance institutions and the due processes these institutions embody. It’s the reason we have such a penchant for street parliamentarianism and participative cheating during elections — despite the fact that these institutions are funded by taxes. Oh but wait, maybe it’s because many Pinoys for their part don’t pay taxes either!
# 15 August 2007 at 2:50 pm

cvj said:
Jeg, the same assumptions hold even if that subset delegated, instead of actually wielded, such power. What is the probability that this subset (whether they be bloggers or oligarchs) will choose a leader who will uphold the general welfare even when it conflicts with the interests of that subset?
# 15 August 2007 at 2:58 pm

cvj said:
Benign0, i totally agree with you on giving the Filipinos a sense of ownership. Someone told me last week that the LKY government, early on noticed that the apartment blocks that were owned were better maintained than those that were leased which is why they mandated government housing (and discourage leasing of government housing). I take it then that you’re in favor of land reform (both agrarian and urban)?
BTW, the biggest tax evaders are the Taipans whom you otherwise praise as worthy of emulation. Where would that observation fit in your solution framework?
# 15 August 2007 at 3:06 pm

Jeg said:
What is the probability that this subset (whether they be bloggers or oligarchs) will choose a leader who will uphold the general welfare even when it conflicts with the interests of that subset?
I would think the probability that they will choose a leader who will uphold the general welfare would be greater than if suffrage were universal. My suffragists and Abe Margallo’s suffragists are composed of different, but possibly overlapping people. For example, I dont have a property requirement.
Oh what the heck. Here’s a link for all those interested in what cvj and I discussed a long time ago:
ergone.blogspot.com/2007/02/thought-experiment-on-universal.html
# 15 August 2007 at 3:08 pm

Jeg said:
Maybe that’s the reason why Manila is such a dump — because a big chunk of the population there is made up of squatters and dumpster scavengers.
Developing the agri sector would take care of that.
Instead of turning our farmers into factory workers, we need to turn them into better farmers. Land reform is just a start.
# 15 August 2007 at 3:14 pm

cvj said:
Jeg, the subset you defined in your blog thread i.e. an intellectual and moral elite on which the viability of your scheme of limited suffrage depends on, is just not there. (I’m sure there will be no shortage of applicants but that’s another story.)
Anyway, issues surrounding suffrage (universal or limited) deal only with the representative aspect of democracy. I believe that such a subset (if it does exist) will be more helpful in the area of direct democracy, in terms of pushing for their advocacies.
# 15 August 2007 at 3:41 pm

Jeg said:
Anyway, issues surrounding suffrage (universal or limited) deal only with the representative aspect of democracy.
True. I thought we could still save representative democracy by electing true representatives. Im beginning to be convinced though that the problem of representative democracy is systemic; that it is inherent in the system itself. Technology will bring us closer to direct democracy.
Jeg, the subset you defined in your blog thread i.e. an intellectual and moral elite on which the viability of your scheme of limited suffrage depends on, is just not there.
Then we’re worse off than I thought.
# 15 August 2007 at 3:49 pm

benign0 said:
“Please show me a study that links climate to the savings rate. Because if you take a look at indicators of southeast asian economies, you will see that the really hot countries like Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand have very high gross domestic savings rate”
I think you are evaluating that statement using the wrong timescales.
Whatever way those three countries were performing over the last 3-6 decades is a small blip compared to the gap in technological and organisational development that saw societies from the more temperate climates surge way ahead of their tropical counterparts of over the last several centuries.
Of course that does not mean that climate is the ONLY factor that determines how prosperous a society becomes in the same way IQ is no guarantee that a person will be successful in life. But people with high IQ’s are statistically MORE LIKELY to succeed. And just like this whole business with climate as a factor to success, there is still an on-going debate as to how IQ contributes to individual succcess.
So if I were you Lord Vader, I’d try to have a bigger mind and process this idea from the perspective of a broader frame of reference.
# 15 August 2007 at 3:54 pm

inodoro ni emilie said:
“I’m not going to be provoked into an “achievement race” with you. I don’t intend to join tagakotta’s pataasan ng ihi.”
shaman, please don’t. we have too many resume builders here already. you don’t have to prove your worth to rego. readers in here can tell who are a boastful lot, and who can stand and deliver.
# 15 August 2007 at 4:34 pm

cvj said:
Jeg, you’re right about our crisis of representation. The representatives we elect turn to the darkside quicker than you can say ‘cheese’. That’s because we have little or no public involvement after the elections. I agree that technology will also play a role in direct (aka deliberative) democracy in the form of facilitating regular plebiscites but that is at least a decade away and assumes that the COMELEC cleans house turns into the kind of institution that Musa Dimasidsing fought for.
# 15 August 2007 at 4:38 pm

Karl Garcia said:
I do hope agriculture,proper implementation of land reform,farm to market infra,roro,and the rest of the factors to make the balik probinsya worth it.
But do we also give up manufacturing to china,I would not know,maybe someday,China will bububle burst and the rest of them go here.(how i wish)
But in reality the biggest employers here are the government national and local,maybe that too has to change.
that is why we cannot just relocate squatters just like that malalayo sila sa employment nila.
stakeholder involvement post elections,can happen hopefully if we eliminate election donations from corportations,sana ganun kadali.the stakeholders will have a say instead of going to the streets.Kundi bussiness will have power over politics all the time.
The problems are not that simple and the solutions offered must first present the problems other than its problem statement of cultural dysfunction.
I wish the solution framework has an answer to all of these.
# 15 August 2007 at 6:55 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Don’t worry, INE, I won’t. Thanks.
# 15 August 2007 at 9:49 pm

rego said:
shaman, please don’t. we have too many resume builders here already. you don’t have to prove your worth to rego. readers in here can tell who are a boastful lot, and who can stand and deliver.
——————————————————–
Excuse me, hindi ako nag simula nito. At wala akong planong makipagtaasan ng ihi kahit kaninuman.Si shaman mismo ang nag simula ng pataasan ng ihi na eto when she made that statement that she is not getting any help from the regos and bencard and the austeros.. Implying that while she doing something for the country we, are not helping at all.
If ever I mentioned what we doing to be of help in our own small way. Its because she asked for it. I did not just give away that information for pataasan ngihi purposes.
Now I am asking. What exactly is she doing to be help to this country and what help she needs from us? A mere mention of your advocacy in this forum is helping is just a vague statement and is not helping at all. She should present a specific action plan so we would know when to come in to be help, how we can be of help, and if we agree to her action plan.
Im waiting…………..
# 15 August 2007 at 9:58 pm

cvj said:
Rego, so that’s why you brought up that scholarship project again. It’s good to know that you felt the need to prove yourself.
# 15 August 2007 at 10:02 pm

DuckVader said:
Benigno —
Your assertion was that a warm climate is a disincentive to saving. I showed you countries that had extremely high savings rates despite having temperatures that would make someone from Manila sweat buckets. Then you redirect it to “but that’s not what I’m talking about, I’m talking about th longer term and development in general.” Your misdirection won’t work and I’ll take you head on on this.
Where is the data that shows savings rate over the longer term as being influenced by temperature? There is none, because savings rate is data that has been collected largely only in the past couple of centuries and once macroeconomic techniques became sophisticated enough to capture savings rates on a wide scale. Thus you may proxy savings rates for some industrial economies as early as the 19th century, but beyond that it becomes shit guesswork.
So where is the empirical and statistical proof that savings is determined by temperature on a long-term basis? I say there is none because there is not data available beyond the early 20th century that will be wide enough to allow for statistical testing — whether cointegration or linear. Because as you admit your assertion doesn’t work for short-term and if you can’t prove that it works for the long-term, then your assertion is nothing more than something you pulled out of thin air.
And if climate is not the only factor, how much of a factor is it? 5%, 10%, 70%? How much of the variation does it predict? These are simple statistical questions.
# 15 August 2007 at 11:04 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
Devil, that was actually the intention — to bring the “’framework’ to the next level of detail. Trouble is, concept and framework level pa lang, di na magka-sundo (ironic, considering that many here say that these ideas are all ‘Widely known and acknowledged’).”
oh, i’ll say the pinoy faults you pointed out were indeed widely known and even “acknowledged” if not accepted wholly. as for your ideas, hmm, let me jz say that in this juncture of humanity’s brief stint in time, no one can still claim an idea as original. that’s why sometime i lay daydreaming that if only humans can inherit memories the way they inherit genes, we’d all be a lot better off. and hey, you can still proceed on to the details even if no one’s agreeing except your gang. and man, you need some serious refining in tact and humility to win ppl over to see your point of view. well, that is if you want to succeed in your goals for a better Phils.
instead if saying: no. everyone’s gotta be wrong and im the only one who knows best, why don’t you try: do you think this is a good idea? or hey, i’ve thought of something, waddya think?
sometimes benigs, people aren’t really upset by ideas other people bring. sometimes the messenger just annoys the hell out of them. would be sad to see a good idea go to waste simply bec the messenger was shot bec he was such an unlikable jerk. not that i think you’re a jerk. or that you’re unlikable. hell, i’ve gone anti-social and people still like me.
# 15 August 2007 at 11:33 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
cvj, ah basta. for me government in economy is this. trash WTO, start aggressively protecting our agriculture and fishing industry, infuse capital and funds into this 2 industries. encourage entrepreneurial growth by: removing red tape in business applications, declaring start-up businesses tax free for its 1st 3 yrs, crackdown on monopolies and legislate laws breaking them down. and for god’s sakes, protect our patrimony at all cost!
should i go on with how i think governance of our country should go? or should we revisit civil war and just have everything razed to ashes so we can start anew? that way, benigs won’t have to keep complaining abt all the barriers to his, err his group’s Solution Framework.
what do we do with a severely infected, virus-ridden, hideously spyware-afflicted computer? reformat, my dear cvj, reformat.
or, we could appeal to Media exec’s better sensibilities and request them to do the reformatting for us instead of a bloody revolution. wait. they’re already doing that except they’re doing the reverse! thanks to them, the next generation will be more stupider than the generation before them. hey, if it’s any consolation, they’ll reap what they sow eventually.
# 15 August 2007 at 11:37 pm

cvj said:
cvj, ah basta. for me government in economy is this. trash WTO, start aggressively protecting our agriculture and fishing industry, infuse capital and funds into this 2 industries. encourage entrepreneurial growth by: removing red tape in business applications, declaring start-up businesses tax free for its 1st 3 yrs, crackdown on monopolies and legislate laws breaking them down. and for god’s sakes, protect our patrimony at all cost! – Devilsadvc8
That’s a concise summary and I largely agree with you except maybe for the part about thrashing the WTO. Since we don’t have the aggregate domestic purchasing power locally, we need other countries’ export markets for the purpose of building up the two (or whatever number of) industries that we select. Depending on what industry we focus on, we may also need to import some of the inputs so raising trade barriers for these would be counterproductive. Also, when selecting an ‘industry’, Rodrik advises that we should be thinking in terms of specific activities or sets of activities to be good at, rather than whole industrial sectors.
# 16 August 2007 at 12:05 am

cvj said:
what do we do with a severely infected, virus-ridden, hideously spyware-afflicted computer? reformat, my dear cvj, reformat. – Devilsadvc8
Before we reformat, we normally would want to backup the important files first. We wouldn’t want to lose valuable programs and data that would be needed later. As you very well expressed in your previous comment…
that’s why sometime i lay daydreaming that if only humans can inherit memories the way they inherit genes, we’d all be a lot better off. – Devilsadvc8
# 16 August 2007 at 12:11 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Also, when selecting an ‘industry’, Rodrik advises that we should be thinking in terms of specific activities or sets of activities to be good at, rather than whole industrial sectors.”
Agriculture: 3 products need special mention, RICE, MANGOES, and COCONUT. esp rice. i find it pathetic that we import rice bec our own farmers cnt produce enough for the whole population. and our staple food is rice! perhaps some genius in govt would’ve thought that it being our staple food, it would’ve been impt to at least see to it we dnt run out of it w/o having to import it.
FISHING: i cnt emphasize good PORTS and sea regulations enough. we are a goddamn archipelago, surrounded by so much water, and our ports suck, and our fishing waters raided by others nationals. wouldn’t it be good if the Philippines were to be known as the SeaFood capital of the world? (there goes the National Branding that Benigs has been pining for all these years) and our rivers, gaah! if our local govts had even a shred of imagination, they would’ve realized that cleaning them would open up a lot of business opportunities. lots on the riverfront would appreciate and skyrocket like shit. we have so many rivers, we could have little Venices everywhere around the country. instead, a couple of factories bribe them, and allowed to dump their waste for a handful of happy purses. people stupidly equate caring for nature as adverse for businesses. and mining, oh mining. this single policy of GMA jz shows how stupid she and her gang is. sustainable mining? pray tell, what exactly is sustainable abt it and how do we sustain it? perhaps you and your folks have gone and discovered you can shit minerals out of your anuses. minerals dnt exactly grow back you know.
# 16 August 2007 at 12:49 am

cvj said:
Devils, i agree with your suggestions above most especially with your opposition to mining. I also think that in the area of FORESTRY, we can offer up our bald mountains and hills as hosting areas for the trees that would be planted by environmentally-conscious air travellers who want to become carbon-neutral.
# 16 August 2007 at 1:11 am

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Before we reformat, we normally would want to backup the important files first. We wouldn’t want to lose valuable programs and data that would be needed later.”
all the important files are in our history, and programs can be created the same way all other programs are created.
as for civil war case study, North and South Korea is the perfect example. The South struck luck and had a great leader, and the North luck out and was stuck with, as Benigno says, a very big SOB with a “vision.” what propelled S. Korea successfully? the war made everyone deeply nationalistic. after all, they’ve fought and undergone the same things and have formed a bond all nations need. what made the North fail? well, everyone was feeling downright nationalistic as well, but damn, one man can sure ruin a party. hey, we had that kind of man too!
and what abt us? we thought People Power was all fun camping and flag waving. did anyone sacrifice anything for anything? oh yeah right, Ninoy lies interred at the Libingan ng mga Bayani, and no one even died at the 2nd one! in short, whatever we won on those two occasions was won too cheaply, and that’s why few could even care less what happens to it.
if you were a sculptor, how would you feel if a work of yours in progress (which you’ve been sculpting for years) was suddenly destroyed by someone?
the key then to nation building, is to get the citizens to emotionally invest in their nation. that any notion of even fucking it would push them into ballistic rages.
# 16 August 2007 at 1:22 am

KG said:
“if you were a sculptor, how would you feel if a work of yours in progress (which you’ve been sculpting for years) was suddenly destroyed by someone?
the key then to nation building, is to get the citizens to emotionally invest in their nation. that any notion of even fucking it would push them into ballistic rages.”
That’s why I was mentioning pride and support,but Benigs told me it could not fill our stomachs or di nakakabusog.
But I acknowledged that my reaction was childish,thus it was misinterpreted.Oks lang .
On mining :kawawang South Africa and the whole African continent,kaya hanggang ngayon mahirap pa din,dahil mga multinationals ang nakikinabang sa minerals nila….Come to think of it,baka ganyan din mangyari sa atin..so scratch mining..sorry for suggesting.
On mangoes: Guimaras oil spill put a grinding halt to it.
Let us look for other spots,nandun kasi ang big producers like Marsman Drysdale eh.
On rice:
Sa gulangan sa presyo ng Rice dealers,middlemen vs poor farmer: resulting to higher prices,kaya yan 2loy because of that vicious cycle alone. Imported rice would always be cheaper.
Coconut:
solve the damn coco levy fund and we are good to go.
Fishing industry:
Ou modernization for our ships was not supported by our law makers saying,that it better be spent fror”better”purposes”like..nevermind baka nga mas importante.
Thus we have a weak Navy and poor coastguard,so our neighbors can fish on our shores with impunity.Bandits can kidnap tourist with impunity,as well.
Our rivers,para san ang piso patra sa pasig kung tuloy tuloy ang envronmental permits for sale.
A lot of vicious cycles….can we all make them virtuous instead..
One hindrance to the sculptor analogy is,ok destroy it,there is notthing I can do.
on revolution:
Minor minor correction:Ninoy is in Manila Memorial,di ko alam kung bakit even after the Marcoses left that he was not transferred to the libingan.
Some may say that the revolutions were elite lead kaya walang nangyari..if that is so then it is business over politics all over again.
Reformat: annihilate then procreate(joke)
what the F is the opposite of annihilate,maybe build would be apt. Save is too messianic sounding.That is what we are always looking for.
pS
Since madami KG tawag sakin,then KG it is.(Karl)
# 16 August 2007 at 6:32 am

Bencard said:
“Ninoy lies interred at the Libingan ng mga Bayani…”, devilsadvoc8.
i thought ninoy aquino’s insistence to leave the safety of boston to prove a point was ill-advised. at the time, marcos’ days were numbered with his fatally debilitating diseases. aquino knew what was going to happen as evidenced by his wearing a bullet-proof vest. he probably knew also that there was a sliver of a chance that he would survive. but still, he chose to ignore that “discretion is the better part of valor”. had he lived, there would have been probably no need for edsa, but there would have been no more marcos, either.
# 16 August 2007 at 6:32 am

KG said:
Devils,
Revolution:Wala lang….
Devils backread to 2004 and a link will lead to Apolinario Mabinii’s Revolution.
As to the Edsas, as we speak I am doing a research on this,and I need all your inputs(you and others),as to books,suggestions, etc.
CVJ gave me one through the books of the week section.(ty)
So far aside from that book puro online,a brief 2004 artcile by our host and wikipedia.
Time to demystify the Edsas, it might be like Transfromers, which is more than meets the eye.
I will also see if my blabbering about that it is elite lead is valid or not.
Wala na rin akong time mag blog:pakipost na lang sa walang kwentang blogpost ko under comments: re inputs
nakakahiya naman kung dito.
laging mali ang link kom ito,tama na siguro.
karlgarciasblogs.blogspot.com
Ty
KG
# 16 August 2007 at 7:25 am

KG said:
Bencard and Devils,
Ninoy lies six feet under sa manila Memorial. At one point in my life I visitted it when visting my dearly departed.
Conjecture time again:
Maybe kaya wala sa libingan si Ninoy para di magdemand ang mga Marcosses na ilipat sya libingan. Again,I wouldn’t know.
I could guess till kingdom come ika nga ni Benigno.
# 16 August 2007 at 7:39 am

KG said:
mali na naman ang subject verb agreement,grammar,punctuation at speeling
Tao lang sensya na.
Sa bago kong pinasok di pwede ito,kahit na madaming mag edit.baka di ako makatagal.
Sa call center naman nakatagal ako.
well sa writing naman eh me rough draft dito kasi wala pero pwede naman iedit bago submit.
See you when I see you.
# 16 August 2007 at 7:47 am

benign0 said:
Duck Vader: “Your assertion was that a warm climate is a disincentive to saving.”
No I didn’t dude.
I said that societies that evolved in tropical climates show “no culture of saving and accumulating surpluses for the winter”.
There’s a big difference.
The context of the term “saving” I used above is different from the context of “savings rate” which is an economic indicator you are using to compare countries in recent timescales.
Note in the following article how I use the concept of “savings rate” in the proper context:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/17-savings.html
Completely different bannana, right? Note also that from this particular context, the Philippines still comes up at the bottom of the pile.
Tsk tsk.
# 16 August 2007 at 7:48 am

tagakotta de cebu said:
Pls watch Ricky Carandang’s interview of Mar Roxas tonight in the Big Picture at 8:00 pm on ANC.see Ricky’s blog for details.
Let’s give our opinion on Mar.He is one of the most promising 2010 contenders.
# 16 August 2007 at 8:38 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“had he lived, there would have been probably no need for edsa, but there would have been no more marcos, either.”
yeah right. and there would have been a ver and a new set of cohorts propagating the very new society you so dreaded. is this what exile can do to your thinking–slant historicity?
# 16 August 2007 at 8:53 am

benign0 said:
“that’s why sometime i lay daydreaming that if only humans can inherit memories the way they inherit genes, we’d all be a lot better off”
Richard Dawkins (I think) proposed the concept of the “meme” as the equivalent of genes in the evolution of ideas. Ideas, in this regard also undergo a survival of the fittest competition as they get passed on from one human generation to another. So memes like religious beliefs for example, because they appeal to some deep aspect of the human psyche (making them, in this sense, “fit”), has endured as a robust idea for thousands of years.
And, yes, the articulation of “getrealist” ideas continues regardless of support or opposition to them. This has been happening since 2000 and, as Ms Ca T will surely attest to, the irony is that it is primarily the “input” from detractors drive further development.
As to my tact, well, I’m not really into this for the popularity. I do find that those who are able to see past my PERCEIVED lack of tact are those that are more likely to possess the right aattitudes to evaluate ideas objectively.
Those who live on appeals to emotion, unfortunately, tend to get left by the bus too often.
# 16 August 2007 at 9:14 am

benign0 said:
“Agriculture: 3 products need special mention, RICE, MANGOES, and COCONUT. esp rice. i find it pathetic that we import rice bec our own farmers cnt produce enough for the whole population”
Even more pathetic is our inability to build valuable brands around these products.
For example, our pineapples and some of our bananas are marketed around the world under the American brand names Del Monte, Dole, and Chiquita.
Our mangoes — amongst the best in the world — languish in low-margin fresh produce palengkes. I’d take dried mangoes over Arnott fruities anytime yet the bigger more valuable brand dominates supermarket shelves.
Kawawa nga naman talaga ang Pinoy. We are swimming in natural resources but lack the brains to turn them into high-added value goods. Instead we export them raw — just like we did with our forests, and just like what we are doing now with our human capital.
Small-minded talaga – til kingdom come.
# 16 August 2007 at 9:32 am

rego said:
“Rego, so that’s why you brought up that scholarship project again. It’s good to know that you felt the need to prove yourself. ”
————————————————-
CVJ,
I really don’t mind proving myself if I need to…especially that scholarship project. Im very proud of it as well everybody that involve on it.
Did you know that it just started from forum like this? Wala pang blog noon yahoo group pa. And where in this yahoo group whose membership grow to 8,000 filipinos world wide. Maraming ring bangayan na katulad na katulad ng nangyaayri dito sa blog na eto. But eventually, there were people who “EB” each other and find out there are so many decent members in the group and became good really good freind. And when I arrive here I meet up with also with other members that are based here. And people who came here for a visit and other countries and from Manila also mett up with. And it just evolve to an amazing and in informal botherhood. (One member whom I meet here forteh first time even allowed to stay for free in his house in NJ for 6 years now. All though I cant afford to ther every day now becuase of my toxic sked.)
There was just one member who raised an idea on how we be of help to country. Ecventually a core member of twenty agreed to put a scholarship project. And we are now on our 7 year.
What I am saying is that, I’ve been in this forum for more than year now. And I observe there are so many good intention bloggers, (educated, intelligent, moneyed etc etc,) in this forum. If only we could set aside our differences the same way that that yahoo group did. We can actually come up with a something…and somthing really big! Dont you think.
# 16 August 2007 at 9:33 am

Bencard said:
inidoro, ver was a small satellite basking in the reflected dim light of a dying star. he and the “new cohorts” would be like straws in the wind that could not have withstood the wrath of a nation thirsting for justice.
don’t persist in your “hollow-brained” habit of personally assailing a commenter for his comment. just attack the comment, if you please. and don’t forget the attribution when you quote someone, even for the purpose of criticizing him/her. it’s just elementary courtesy. we can use a little civility here. i refuse to believe that you are one of the “trolls” that ca’t was referring to, or a “simple mind” that we have been discussing about in this thread.
# 16 August 2007 at 9:56 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Rego,
I wonder if you really understand context.
Read again below what I wrote:
“That’s why civil society must never tire in confronting cheating, lying, and stealing in government, instead of just turning its head the other way and “moving on”. Otherwise, nothing will change. We will just be moving on to more of the same. But we are not getting any help from the Bencards, the Regos, and the Austeros.”
If you will note, I’m bemoaning the mindset of the “move on” crowd vis-a-vis Gloria’s electoral cheating controversy spawned by the “Hello, Garci” tapes, the lies and cover-up that followed, the stealing of the fertilizer fund, and all those mega-corruption scams. This mindset of closing the eyes to all these wrongdoings and urging the country to just “move on” is not helping (there’s the contextual operative word) any the effort to demand greater accountability from our political leaders.
It doesn’t mean that you’re not helping the country, in general, in some other ways.
Comprende, señor?
Next time, please try not to shoot from the hips.
# 16 August 2007 at 9:58 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Karl,
At the time of Ninoy’s internment, Marcos was still in power. And Ninoy had not yet been officially declared a hero. He could not have been buried at Libingan.
Why have they not transferred his remains now that he’s a bayani? I guess the Aquino family wants him to remain where he is.
# 16 August 2007 at 10:21 am

Jeg said:
cvj: That’s a concise summary and I largely agree with you except maybe for the part about thrashing the WTO.
Take a look at this article on free trade and agriculture by Anuradha Mittal and Gawain Kripke. You might find it interestting.
Link: gnn.tv/articles/3228/Free_Trade_Doesn_t_Help_Agriculture
# 16 August 2007 at 10:26 am

rego said:
Shaman,
Alright, so its the move on crowds and you singled us out to be belonging that that crowd. Put us in bad light. While you put yourself in good light. So sino ngayon nag nag tatatas ng ihi?
You this is whats happening here. You want us to toe your line or else we will be the contra bida and you will be the bida. You see the light and we don’t?
So what do you intend to do with cheating issue of Gloria? What is your plan of action now? And what help do you want from us?
# 16 August 2007 at 10:38 am

Bencard said:
shaman, as part of the “move-on” crowd that you are referring to, at the risk of being makulit, i would say to you again that the rule of law prevents these charges from seeing the light of day. he who makes a charge has the burden of proving it, not the other way around. we have an adversarial system of justice wherein an accuser cannot, and should not, force the person he is accusing, to supply the evidence to prove his guilt.
in a country where false witnesses and fabricated evidence are a dime a dozen, prosecutors ought to be extra careful in bringing up cases that have no leg to stand on lest they be serving not justice but injustice. again and again, we have stated in this forum that perception is not fact and accusation is not tantamount to guilt.
are you advocating that our president should cease functioning until she proves she is innocent of all the gossips, calumny, speculations of wrongdoing, trump-up charges, and unsubstantiated accusations made by cowards hiding behind a cloak of immunity or privilege, and believed by some gullible “simple minds” or people with selfish personal or political agenda?
whether or not you believe that she was legitimately elected, the fact is she is the sitting president. she has to be respected and obeyed as such until she ceases to be president strictly in accordance with law and the constitution.
# 16 August 2007 at 10:42 am

kampupot said:
Share ko lang po itong forwarded email na ‘to na may subject na “A Modern Parable”. Siguro nabasa nyo na ‘to o kaya naman ang autor nito ay isa sa commenter sa blog na ‘to. Enjoy reading.
A Japanese company ( Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.
Feeling a more in-depth study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team’s management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the ‘Rowing Team Quality First Program,’ with meetings, dinners and free pens and a certificate of completion for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower (a reduction in workforce) for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year’s racing team was “out-sourced” to India.
Sadly, the End.
However, sad, but oh so true! Here’s something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can’t make money paying American wages. Toyota has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US.
The last quarter’s results:
Toyota makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads.
IF THIS WASN’T SO SAD, IT MIGHT BE FUNNY!
# 16 August 2007 at 11:25 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Rego,
If your being a part of the “move on” crowd put you “in bad light”, it’s not my fault. I mentioned you because you were one of the most vocal here. If my arguments exposed the undesirability of your “move on” mindset, as far as promoting government accountability is concerned, that put you “in bad light” (not my words), that mindset is perhaps to blame, not me. You should be prepared to take the consequences for what you believe in.
It’s not my intention to be a bida. I laid down my argument, rebut it. Prove to me that the “move on” mindset advanced the cause of government accountability. Don’t ascribe motives to me.
I didn’t want you to “toe (my) line”. I can’t force you, can I? I was just hoping that you, and others of like-minds, might see the light. The “good light”, as you say.
I have long accepted that the “move on” mindset has won in Gloria’s case, but not because it’s on the right. I just want to show that it is another example of our failure to exact accountability from our leaders.
Maybe, it’s time to take a good second look at Manoy Abe’s “revolutionary government”. Just maybe.
# 16 August 2007 at 11:50 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“inidoro, ver was a small satellite basking in the reflected dim light of a dying star. he and the “new cohorts” would be like straws in the wind that could not have withstood the wrath of a nation thirsting for justice.”
too late philosophizing from your armchair.
i am not shooting the messenger here bencard, because in your case, the message and the messenger are embodiedly intertwined. what i am really curious to psychoanalyse is this: why do exilers think differently now about the political situation in pinas, when all these reactionaries (noise to let’s-move-on movement) are raising are cries to curtail the spectre of a resurrected marcosian regiment? note that i am setting my arguments in context: what does the comfort of distance do?
# 16 August 2007 at 11:51 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
because, willy-nilly, bencard, the generation after you expects more from you who have suffered from the tyranny of the marcos regime (that’s why it such such a frustration to see joker a suddenly becoming a politician in his sunset days). you have not even come face to face with the ghost of the marcosian past, and would instead speculate on how history would have changed its course had ninoy not decided to come back. or is this projection on your part?
did you hear the bleating of the lamb, bencard?
# 16 August 2007 at 11:57 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Bencard,
You’re a lawyer and I know you’ll again cite the rule of law. The letter of the law, that is.
My view is simple (there’s merit in being simple-minded, at times, benignO notwithstanding [there I go again mentioning names]): Gloria can only be made to account for her acts as president through an impeachment trial. She has not been impeached. So, there was no trial. So, there could not have been any presentation of evidence. Don’t blame her accusers for not being able to present their evidence. Wala ngang trial, lawyer Bencard, di ba?
Gloria was not impeached. Why? Oh, impeachment is just a numbers game. Use it to exact accountability? Are you kidding? It’s all there in the letter of the law – it’s just a numbers game. Win 2/3 to impeach.
I wonder what a numbers game is doing in our constitution.
So, now, let’s just resign ourselves to respecting and obeying sitting presidents. Don’t bother with their shenanigans. To hell with accountability. It’s just a numbers game, you know. The rule of law says so.
Say that again, Manoy Abe. Revolutionary government?
# 16 August 2007 at 12:20 pm

inodoro ni emilie said:
“I wonder what a numbers game is doing in our constitution.”
a lawyer’s reasoning will likely go like this: there is no wrongdoing committed to the constitution until the supreme court has declared so.
man, that’s like beating the red light at the nick of time. balasubas pa rin ang driver.
# 16 August 2007 at 12:26 pm

benign0 said:
Shaman,
Having a simple mind is different from being small-minded.
# 16 August 2007 at 12:27 pm

rego said:
Shaman,
Can you just tell us how we be of help to you?
Im an seeing a contradiction here. You want us to help you and at the same time you are alienting us.
Do you really want help from us or you are just raising your self up to the moral throne- way above us? Nag tatas ka lang yata ng bangko mo eh. And its seem to me your way of doing it that it is by assigning a label to certain group of people in a negative way.
# 16 August 2007 at 12:27 pm

rego said:
“So, now, let’s just resign ourselves to respecting and obeying sitting presidents. Don’t bother with their shenanigans. To hell with accountability. It’s just a numbers game, you know. The rule of law says so.”
So Shaman what is it that you really want to do?. Impeach the president? And you want help from us to achive that? How?
# 16 August 2007 at 12:30 pm

rego said:
Or you want a civil disobedience? A people power? what is it really?
Present it to so we can discuss the viability and doability of such option?
# 16 August 2007 at 12:35 pm

rego said:
Present it to us so we can discuss the viability and doability of such option.
# 16 August 2007 at 12:40 pm

cvj said:
all the important files are in our history, and programs can be created the same way all other programs are created. – Deviladvc8
The most important ‘programs and files’ are in our communities of practice. Yes, we can safekeep the history books for the duration of the war, but what about our civilized way of life. Wars, no matter what intention, tend to bring out the animal in us and that persists even during peace time. It’s a breeding ground for new ‘viruses’. Look at what happened to us Filipinos after World War II. I guess we differ on how much is worth preserving and how much needs to be destroyed.
Rego@August 16th, 2007 at 9:33 am, i agree. We can be on opposite sides of the fence but that shouldn’t stop us from doing what you described. That, however is beside the point (aka a red herring) since, it is the ‘move on’ mindset and its effects that Shaman is taking issue with.
Jeg, thanks for the pointer, i’ll read it and tell you what i think later. FYI, i’m actually against any ‘balik probinsiya’ program. There are too many people in the agriculture sector as it is.
# 16 August 2007 at 1:03 pm

cvj said:
kampupot, i don’t know if that story is apocryphal but since i work for an American company, i can vouch for its underlying truth. That reference to Toyota is very relevant to the discussion since Rodrik says that his recommended approach to Industrial Policy has a lot of similarities to the Toyota Production System.
# 16 August 2007 at 1:08 pm

Bokyo said:
“whether or not you believe that she was legitimately elected, the fact is she is the sitting president. she has to be respected and obeyed as such until she ceases to be president strictly in accordance with law and the constitution.”
I agree “she has to be respected”.
(Fake respect nga lang din)
# 16 August 2007 at 1:32 pm

Jeg said:
cvj: FYI, i’m actually against any ‘balik probinsiya’ program. There are too many people in the agriculture sector as it is.
Developing the agri sector isnt really about balik probinsya. Developing agri would allow the urban labor sector to stay in the cities because they would have jobs there. (Granted some will go balik-probinsya of course.) Being the biggest sector in the economy, developing agri would not be a trickle. It would be a wave that would help even the urban labor sector. Imagine strengthening the purchasing power of those in the agri sector. That would create markets. If they make enough money to buy a new pair of slippers (for example), once every 3 months, it would create a demand for slippers, making money for the slipper factory, providing jobs for the urban labor sector, etc, and so on down the line.
# 16 August 2007 at 2:04 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Rego,
Oh, how I wished Gloria were impeached! But it’s too late for it now, Rego. The “move on” crowd has won, remember? So, now we are moving on in our rut (or should I say “rot”?).
But, tell you what. The next time a president violates the spirit of the law, do a little paradigm-shift. That is, if you want to help. Demand for impeachment. That’s the only way a president can be made to account. How? Let’s cross the bridge when we get there. There are different circumstances to every situation, di ba?
“Or you want a civil disobedience? A people power?” If I may add, Manoy Abe’s “revolutionaty government”?
Ecclesiastes said, “There’s a time for everything under the sun”, or something to that effect. Although what really entered my mind was the song, “Turn, turn, turn”. Was it by The Byrds? Perhaps, terrakotta can help me on this (why can’t I keep from mentioning names?). Perhaps, it’s because I once learned from Dale Carnegie that people should call others by their names.
Well, Rego, I think you took my mentioning your name too personally. I promise I won’t do it again. Honest Injun!
By the way, Barak Obama is calling for greater accountability in government in your neck of the woods.
# 16 August 2007 at 2:10 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
inodoro,
And all the while I thought that numbers games just belong to Pagcor, or are more comfortable with Bong Pineda. Okay rin pala sa rule of law.
Tama ka, the rule of law can be the refuge of “balasubas”.
# 16 August 2007 at 2:21 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Since we don’t have the aggregate domestic purchasing power locally, we need other countries’ export markets for the purpose of building up the two (or whatever number of) industries that we select.”
Im not suggesting we become isolationist like effin N. Korea. Im only suggesting we only play with countries who’ll play on equal footing with us. globalization could’ve been the coup of the century, had the big players simply not practiced double standards. instead, underdeveloped and developing countries are condemned to remain slave to richer countries. all in the name of their comfort.
“Depending on what industry we focus on, we may also need to import some of the inputs so raising trade barriers for these would be counterproductive.”
I only meant aggresive protectionism, in instances that the same is being foisted on our industries abroad. Do unto others…
Duck and Benigno, savings here are not too attractive bec savings interest pale shit in comparison to inflation. Inflation will overtake your sleeping money in the bank, while the bank utilizes the full value of your money in the present. So when you do take out your savings, its purchasing power is greatly diminished. The money you saved 5 years ago on a .75% interest would’ve grown to a stupendous 3.75% while inflation would’ve diminished its value by 12 percent! terrific. that’s really smart saving. so if your money could’ve bought you a refrigeratior today, if you let it sleep in the bank, you’d be lucky if it can still buy you the smallest model when you do withdraw that money. climate has nothing to do with it.
# 16 August 2007 at 2:28 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Toyota makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads.”
Maybe it wouldn’t be such a puzzle if the ford (and GM execs) realized that the american consumers are searching for better fuel-efficient cars. and basically their cars are not only fuel-inefficent, they’re the exact opposite: gas guzzlers. while Toyota trailblazes the industry in producing more and more fuel-efficient cars. of course labor division may also have something to do with it.
Karl, I stand corrected. perhaps i had that notion that he was interred at Libingan bec. well i automatically assumed that all our heroes would’ve been… tnx for the correction
Benigno, memes are not exactly what i envision when i pine for memory inheritance. the most successful memes aren’t exactly the best ones in terms of value. the most successful are those that contain self-propagating and self-saving mechanisms. christianity for example is one of the most widespread religion bec baptism is self-propagating. normally, christian parents would have their children baptized during infancy. there is no element of choice. the child would be instructed and raised in the beliefs of the religion, and would thereby be successfully implanted with the christianity meme. that is self-propagating. and jz to insure its survival, christianity threatens that salvation only lies with their religion. it is self-saving.
memes are diffrent from memories inherited directly like genes in the sense that inherited memories and ideas would not be diluted, would not be modified externally, and would not contain any selfish mechanism for survival. people would then have a huge library of history to learn from, and ideas would evolve the right way. trial and error with only the best surviving.
# 16 August 2007 at 2:51 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
The Americans are not saving anymore. On the contrary, they are deep in hock. That’s why Wall Street is plunging on credit concerns. The Chinese and Japanese have all their money in US Treasuries and are financing the Americans’ spending.
Climate? Siguro, “weather, weather” lang yan.
# 16 August 2007 at 2:57 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
also, inherited memories aren’t prone to breakdown in traditional ways of knowledge transfer. when either the educational system is hijacked by selfish interests, or its standards decreased in a vicious cycle.
Jeg, i too subscribe to your idea of increasing the purchasing power of the masses. a look of other countries’ history would show us that they got their economic ball rolling by “pump-priming” their economy. what exactly does that mean? simply put, it jz means that the sitting presidents of those time (US after the depression)realized that to drive growth, they have to give people the power to purchase in order to create a market for products. new markets create jobs and opportunities, which in turn translates into more purchasing power, which of course completes the cycle.
“I agree ‘she has to be respected’ (Fake respect nga lang din)”. – Bokyo, i must emphatically, violently disagree. mainly bec it will simply delude GMA into thinking people do respect her (she has not the sense to differentiate bet real and fake). if anything, we must push for a spit campaign. since there’s a lot of lawyers here, it’d be useful to ask them if there is anything criminal abt spitting on somebody. would that constitute assault and battery? well, if there is no legal impediment, i highly suggest that we do spit on her person any chance we get.
“Wars, no matter what intention, tend to bring out the animal in us and that persists even during peace time.”
cvj, well if that is the case, what’s the difference? kahit pala peace time the animal in us comes out eh.
“It’s a breeding ground for new ‘viruses’”.
only if the wrong people won. in which case, it won’t matter to the vanquished. they’d all be dead anyway. or at least id wage my revolution that way. to the death.
“I guess we differ on how much is worth preserving and how much needs to be destroyed.”
Yes, you’re quite right. the only thing i see worth preserving is the Filipino heart and our history’s lessons, and id much have everything else destroyed.
# 16 August 2007 at 3:20 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
“Having a simple mind is different from being small-minded.”
Oh, yes, of course, benignO, I’m sorry, definitely there’s a diffirence.
Ah, those small-minded Japanese making all those fuel-efficient small cars and earning those $4-billion profits! Why can’t they be like the big-minded Americans and produce those big gas-guzzlers and turn in a neat $9-billion loss?
# 16 August 2007 at 4:09 pm

Beancurd said:
An observation: In the US of A, people from there have respect for their institutions (like the Presidency, the Courts, Congress, and of course, the Constitution and the Thanksgiving) so people there demand strict accountability from people sitting in those intitutions; In Japan or Korea, they also have respect for their institutions but secondary only to their names, if not their ancestors, so people sitting in those in institutions kill themselves in case any impropriety on their part is exposed; in the Philippines, people sitting in its institutions demand respect by virtue of their being in those institutions, resulting in a distorted sense of accountability, with people being made accountable only when the next in power or the more powerful deems it so.
The difference, I guess, is in the sense of right and wrong. Foreigners have it even if they are the ones involved. Filipinos have it only when others are involved.
So, please do not confuse respect for the institution with respect for the person, and invoke the mantra of moving on and rule of law when the concepts of moving on and the rule of law depend, in this country at least, on who holds the power to make them work.
And that analogy of the race between the Americans and the Japanese, it may be interpreted as supportive of the moving on argument, of the respect for the leader and let us all do what we can to help otherwise you are just an obstructionist-terrorist-good-for-nothing critic. Well, we have had more than 10 years of that during the Martial Law years and where did that lead us? Maybe we should have moved on and endured 20 years more?
# 16 August 2007 at 4:17 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Beancurd,
Thanks for those bean-curdling thoughts. I fully agree with them, except for that part on respecting the leader that left me a little confused. I wish you could be more nuanced. Do you mean we should respect the leader, good or bad, and do everything we can to help him/her, otherwise we would just be “obstructionist-terrorist-good-for-nothing” critics? Sounds to me like the “moving on” variety. Kindly de-confuse me.
By the way, I love taho.
# 16 August 2007 at 4:51 pm

cvj said:
Jeg, on my confusion between balik probinsiya and agri development, point taken. I’m not against developing the agricultural sector and hardly anyone is against the principle of increasing aggregate purchasing power. However, the economic takeoff of our neighbors was a result of them being able to export their industrial products to overseas markets (e.g. cars & microwaves for Korea and bicycles for Taiwan), particularly the richer countries. They did not rely on local purchasing power alone.
If we can get away with widthrawing from the WTO without losing access to those markets, then fine, but i’m not betting that such a move will not have repercussions. These things usually operate on the basis of the perception of reciprocity (unequal power relations nothwidthstanding).
Devilsadvc8, the difference between civil war and no civil war is in the degree in which animal behavior takes over. The ‘new viruses’ would apply to all as war opens up all sorts of opportunities to commit unspeakable acts, especially when one believes that he/she engages in those acts in the name of righeousness. We have seen this in the way many of those in the winning side of World War 2 rationalize the nuking of Hirsohima and Nagasaki, something that wouldn’t have been condoned during peacetime.
# 16 August 2007 at 6:49 pm

Bencard said:
shaman and inodoro, the “numbers game” is the essence of democracy. not all the people will have the same sense of right and wrong, good and bad, just and unjust. democracy works because of the willingness of the minority to accept the will of the majority.
one serious problem of filipinos is the apparent inability to accept a loss. so much discussion have been made on this subject, its nothing new. losers don’t stop whining that they are cheated. they just cannot yield when they are defeated. worst, they refuse to “move on”, equating it to “surrender of principles”. no wonder, we are what we are – losers – in the world we live in.
# 16 August 2007 at 7:14 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
By the way, Bencard, reading your post again, this statement struck me like a bolt:
“i would say to you again that the rule of law prevents these charges from seeing the light of day.”
Last I looked, the rule of law was supposed to shed light on charges, not prevent them from seeing the light of day. Last I looked, the rule of law was supposed to enable the charges to be ventilated so that if they are proved true, justice can be meted out to the guilty, not to be suppressed in some dark, airless Pandora’s box.
You continued:
“he who makes a charge has the burden of proving it, not the other way around. we have an adversarial system of justice wherein an accuser cannot, and should not, force the person he is accusing, to supply the evidence to prove his guilt.”
Sure. But the problem with the Gloria case was that the accusers were not given the proper forum to prove their charges. And the proper forum could only be the impeachment trial. But your rule of law, that quaint variety that prevents charges from seeing the light of day, suppressed the charges on the way to the forum, by playing a funny little numbers game.
Nobody asked Gloria to supply the evidence against her. What was asked was for her to submit herself to an impeachment trial so that the charges against her could be ventilated, and guilt or innocence could be established.
Then, you moved on:
“in a country where false witnesses and fabricated evidence are a dime a dozen, prosecutors ought to be extra careful in bringing up cases that have no leg to stand on lest they be serving not justice but injustice.”
Now, donning the robes of a judge but without the benefit of a trial, you have ruled that the case against Gloria has no leg to stand on and the evidence are all fabricated and the witnesses false.
Then, you really made me doubt the efficacy of the rule of law. The rule of law should be able to render justice even if a case without a leg to stand on were brought up. I would have thought that it would be fairly easy for the rule of law to strike down a case without a leg to stand on. I would have thought that the rule of law would say: “Bring it up, leg or no leg. You can be assured that justice will be rendered.”
Further sayeth thou:
“again and again, we have stated in this forum that perception is not fact and accusation is not tantamount to guilt.”
So, as a result of the rule of law’s effective role of preventing the charges from seeing the light of day, perceptions remained as perceptions, and accusations remained as accusations. No wonder Malacanang and the House of Representatives declared it a thriumph of the rule of law.
Wait, there’s more:
“are you advocating that our president should cease functioning until she proves she is innocent of all the gossips, calumny, speculations of wrongdoing, trump-up charges, and unsubstantiated accusations made by cowards hiding behind a cloak of immunity or privilege, and believed by some gullible “simple minds” or people with selfish personal or political agenda?”
I advocate that your president be impeached and tried so it could be proven that worngdoings were really speculations, that charges were really trumped up, and accusations were really unsubstantiated, not only on the say-so of Judge-without-trial Bencard.
No, Bencard, the Filipino people are not gullible “simple minds”. They are decent citizens hungering for justice that your rule of law cannot deliver.
Thank you, Atty. Bencard, for shedding light on your rule of law. But I wonder whether you are an attorney-at-law or an attorney-out-law.
# 16 August 2007 at 7:57 pm

KG said:
Devils,
Oks lang,personal opinion ko dapat dun din sya nakalibing.
CVJ,Jeg..
I too pointed out the balik probinsya,and I wish agri sector to be developed too.Ok so lets put a stop to alis probinsya instead by making the usual promises of candidates to develop farm to market roads and Romulo Neri’s brainchild the roro Happen, so that Food from Mindanao would be cheaper than food from China.Yung factor na pricing ng dealers at middlemen to follow na yan.
With all the proposals around, it all depends on who has the power over the purse.
Proposals and lobbying have been going around,maybe its time for a paradigm shift and let us have a say,as to how….again I could not say and I would not know.
# 16 August 2007 at 8:20 pm

Devilsadvc8 said:
“Proposals and lobbying have been going around,maybe its time for a paradigm shift and let us have a say,as to how….again I could not say and I would not know.”
Karl, this is nice. i’ve suggested this here before, and i understand Benigno has a working site of his that utilizes the same idea.
headline reads: Online Legislation, Anyone?
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/regions/view_article.php?article_id=82835
dahil aminin na natin, di natin maasahan mga legislators natin na magtrabaho para sa ATIN at di para sa KANILA. tingnan nyo na lng last congress. inubos ang panahon sa midnight Cha-cha tapos dinerail ang Cheaper Medicines Act. isn’t there a mechanism where we can force them to tackle the issues that we wanna tackle instead of them choosing it themselves? (and lobbying is not very effective. not to mention u need money to lobby) tingnan nyo ngayon at uubusin na naman yan sa Cha-cha at maghahabol ipasa ang mga pampabangong bills pag gahol na oras, para magmukha naman silang guwapo. mga gago!
# 16 August 2007 at 8:43 pm

KG said:
S O M
Thanks so much , I was not that young then grade 6 ata ako nung time of death ni Ninoy. Thanks about the opinion that the family wants it to stay that way and forget about my conjectures of: so that the Marcos family would not demand Marcos to be transferred there.(as far as I know they are still demanding or asking until now,anyways)
Many thanks SOM,
About Rego,madadaan naman yan sa usapan minsan…pero I was surprised to hear from him asking our nasty conversations to stop ,from his comments he is so brutally frank.(not to say that brutally frank = nasty)
Sa ilang comment threads na palitan natin dito and there would be more ….we should find a formula to coexist,ako din minsan nadadala at napipikon,since sabi nga ni tagakotta to take care of my hypertension and life is short.Medyo alalay na sa term na nakuha ko sa isang commenter somewhere in the blogosphere sa:bakbakan blogging and as to Mr. Abe’s viewpoint:originative street fighting.
# 16 August 2007 at 8:54 pm

rego said:
Shaman, shaman, shanamagan….
You are just so good and muddling your assertions.
Maybe it would help much if you give your self enough time and sober up to really think before you point finger to any one or even just before you write something in a forum like this.
You demand help from the so called “move on” but you are not really sure what you wanted to do your self! You even can not decide if its impeachment, revolution etc etc. You just wanted to really yak out and yak out, take a high moral stand and cloth your self with a holier than thou cloak to make your self really look good.
I m not taking it personally. I just wanted you to really clarify your sweeping statement. I seriously wanted to listen to you so I will understand better your hatred towards certain group of people But it seems to me that you just wanted to really point fingerit without basis at all. Just a product of you small minded ness?
Paradigm shift shaman”. Do you really know what what is this all about? How sure are you that the people you are finding fault of and not you who needed it so badly. Did it ever occur to you that they may have already undergone that process after two EDSAs? Are you aware of taking reponsibility, Shaman? That when your strategy towards a misbehaving president failed you have the responsibility to revisit and review such strategy a for any defects? And make correction so that next tiem you are faced with the same situation you know better? That when you want your advocay to suceed you just cannot alienate certain group of peoepl becuas eyou actually need them.
And how about a paradigm shift on how you behave in this forum? That this is not just a place for posturing, grandstanding.
And now you are saying its too late, Rego? I hope you are not saying this out of lack of nothing better to say. Dont you think you are in a dire need for paradigm shift on this one too? The problem is still there!Didn’t you just claim that you have a better solution in your rebuttal to Benigno’s frame work. Didnt you just said in you rebuttal of bencard that you just dont want people to just sit there….? So think and act! If you really care to solve the problem you just cannot quit. Because if you quit, how is that better than the “move on” crowds you so despised. Oh I hope this doesn’t mean that the moved on crowd should be rolling red carpet for you to welcome you to their club…
Oh so now you feel that the move on crowd won.Do they really? Or you re small minded ness just put you in a losing position and a losing strategy from the very start? Or really is such a LOSER and you are in need for something and some one to blame . Of except yourself of course.
Mag pakatoo ka kaya, sister. Or sabi nga ni Benigno, GET REAL.
# 17 August 2007 at 5:53 am

rego said:
Magpakatoo ka kaya, sister. Sabi na ni Benigno , GET REAL!
Get off from that moral throne, throw away you holier than thou cloak, shake the crabs in your head, at. Umapak SA lupa sa ng nakapaa . That way you well have a real feel of the real world. Then you will reali that in the end you are really is no better than the move on crowds you so despise. And just like them you too are at a loss on what to do really with the the mess thatis plaguing the country. That the best way to do in this forum is just to really exchange ideas hoping that in the end we can and come up with something that will shake out the country problems.
O sya mag muni muni ka ngayong week end huh. BE SOBER AND REALLY THINK! At please lang wag ng pakialam ang problem ng America. Dahil dahil ang problem nga ng sariling mong bansa di na maatupag eh. Hayaan muna ang mag merkano sa kanilang problem. Focus on on your advocy of accountbility. Dont be a loser! Go for the effective startegy and realizingyour goal.
And next time you cry out for help. Please just make sure you really know well what help you really need. Or you maybe you just have to help yourself first??????!
Alrighty????????????
# 17 August 2007 at 6:11 am

KG said:
call me plastik, a diplomat wannabe but I reiterate my request on how we coexist in this beloved forum.No one has to be friends with everyone,that is not even a minimum requirement.
Daananin na naman natin sa sibling rivalry,o away mag asawa na hanggang kainan nagbabangayan in the end kanino tatakbo pag me trobol.
Less than three years 2010 na, so the next strategy could be or would be or may be is to stop anyone from building a king or queen .
Natauhan ako dun sa Roco all the way and to hell with practical voting ni Devils
Di natin iboboto dahil matatalo,ano ba election sabong o pustahan.
In another blog post one questioned that is it all about the money and the numbers, and the host replied Sad but true.
***********************************
In the talk shows as of late:
Gloria might endorse or trash Noli,Lacsom night run
and the NP and LP might try to renew their rivalry through Roxas and Villar,and a wildcard in Gordon.
As that talk show said Noli might continue with his masa approach,Lacsonm must incrase his support base.
Gordon must solve a national issue.
As to LP and NP.bigla nga naman sumulpot na naman si seabntor Mar all of a sudden,about Villar…maabilidad na tao(no need to explain,it is obvious)
As they say..Strictly Politics.
************************************
As to empowerment and involvement of stakeholders,maybe if the re is such a thing as bloggers/commenters unite movement! Post elections our voice could be heard!
Plus the usual channels of the media of course.And the yahoo groups,like Rego mentioned.
Revolution?
Although, I am researching about revolutions, I don’t agree.Although I do keep an open mind when I am researching.
But we do need a lot of nation building to happen without annihilation.
Hope it is not just a wishful thinking!
# 17 August 2007 at 7:10 am

KG said:
While researching on the edsas,this time edsa II, I again encountered the website of get real philippines.
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/12-3-nyt.html
Expecting Praise, Filipinos are Criticized for Ouster
by Seth Mydans
MANILA, Feb. 2(NYT)
…….
No further comment!
# 17 August 2007 at 9:12 am

KG said:
Scratch my comment waiting for moderation:
Sorry bout that.
# 17 August 2007 at 9:42 am

Bencard said:
no shaman, the rule of law works both ways. what you need is proof of what you allege presented in a proper forum. absent that, you allegation will not see the light of day. the rule of law does not impose a duty to shed light on any wild assertion. i said, let him who makes the charge CONVINCE the appropriate authority that there is merit to the accusation.
the reason there is voting in any forum, be it congress, senate, court of appeals, supreme court, or in the boardroom of a private business enterprise, etc., is that issues can only be resolved by “numbers”. that is democracy, not totalitarianism. the same law that protects pgma from arbitrary prosecution or impeachment safeguards you and me and everyone in this beloved country of ours from arbitrary prosecution by people who hates us.
sorry, shaman, but your point by point rebuttal fails. nice try, though.
# 17 August 2007 at 9:47 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“Sure. But the problem with the Gloria case was that the accusers were not given the proper forum to prove their charges.”
beat the red light, that’s what she’s doing shaman. balasubas pa rin ang driver.
# 17 August 2007 at 9:57 am

Bencard said:
btw, i don’t need to remind you that congress, in the performance of its constitutional duty, twice voted by overwhelming majority that there was no “substance” to both impeachment charges lodged against pgma. that’s why it didn’t see the light of day. why can’t you and like-minded individuals accept that in the same spirit that pgma accepted that eo 1017 was not constitutional, as found by an almost evenly divided sc?
# 17 August 2007 at 9:57 am

Bencard said:
inodoro, you cannot win an argument just by using the word “balasubas”. c’mon, prove that your’s is not a “simple mind” by doing better than that.
# 17 August 2007 at 10:03 am

Jeg said:
cvj: However, the economic takeoff of our neighbors was a result of them being able to export their industrial products to overseas markets (e.g. cars & microwaves for Korea and bicycles for Taiwan), particularly the richer countries.
That’s true. They were able to do this precisely because they took care of their agri sector first. That’s what I was advocating. Let’s not skip a step. The Philippines seems so willing to transform farm lands to industrial lands, willing to turn farmers into factory workers. Historically, advances in civilization followed the development of agriculture. Im willing to bet economic development follows agri development too. Nick Joaquin wants us to think big. Im all for that. Export cars to rich countries and all that. But before you can think big, you have to think smart, think ‘appropriate’: intermediate technology, as EF Schumacher proposed in his book Small Is Beautiful.
Maybe it’s not too late to develop the agri sector, and maybe we can form a block of third world agricultural countries in the WTO that protects our interests like when they stood up to the Biggies regarding third world fisheries exports.
# 17 August 2007 at 10:26 am

rego said:
“About Rego,madadaan naman yan sa usapan minsan…pero I was surprised to hear from him asking our nasty conversations to stop ,from his comments he is so brutally frank.(not to say that brutally frank = nasty)”
——————————————————
Karl,
He he he… , Di ko naman yata kayo pinatigil. It was actually in question mark? Nagtatanong lang po if that kind of exchanges is not really necesary. Dont be shocked just keep going. Brutally frank, well siguro. I m just not used to beating around the bush anymore. Impluwensy na rin siguro ng lugar na kinaroronan ko. Im not being nasty he he he
# 17 August 2007 at 10:28 am

Abe N. Margallo said:
Abe, effective transitional arrangements assume that wisdom is concentrated on a subset of the Filipino population and that power is best wielded by this subset. It also assumes that such wisdom will not leave them once this select group attains power. In Philippine Society, while the former assumption is debatable, the latter is untenable. – cvj
cvj, I’m sorry but I didn’t see right away the above very important observation/comment of yours.
Anyway, to be legitimate, Rostow’s “transitional coalition” should not be equated to Justice Laurel’s “moral and intellectual aristocracy.”
If you recall I have mentioned three difficult challenges to Laurel’s proposition:
FIRST, should such a regime be created now, who would constitute the first anointed ones? SECOND, if the aristocracy pretends to be not sovereign, who is, and who would set the boundaries of powers and then anoint the next in line and under what objective criteria other than such vague and intangible “moral and intellectual endowments”? FINALLY, what happens if the chosen ones turn out to be amoral and unwise, who will tell the fun is over so that the time has come to cut?
I have actually tinkered with the idea of a revolutionary government upon realizing that the “real political, social and economic challenges of GMA’s administration . . . would be how to balance the market prescriptions with social justice on the one hand, and, on the other, how to marshal and factor democracy, expressed in people power through consultation and consensus, in bureaucratic efficiency” and fearing that “GMA was about to lose one great window of opportunity by balking to fully legitimize People Power II and to venture into a fresh start, preferring to look backwards to the status quo ante, a situation her predecessor ousted by the revolt has continued to exploit.” Thus the urging then for GMA “to welcome and take the path of adventure, of being a visionary and a revolutionary, not just a ‘good president.’”
The revolutionary path is not really what normally many of us would have in mind but only something of the Randy David’s scheme, as follows:
“First, a large and articulate constituency for reform must assemble itself from the countless fragmented voices and social movements that are already making themselves heard in our society today. Its first task is to draw and agree on a realistic roadmap to national recovery [adopting the Dani Rodrik thesis is one], carefully marking out the main obstacles and dangers and indicating the immediate priorities to be tackled. Second, the document must be explained and debated in public fora all over the country, refined, and then presented to the President and Congress for action. And third, depending on the response of the present political leadership, the reform movement may either call for new elections or a constitutional convention or both.”
It is therefore revolutionary simply because it assumes the system in place, the metizo/taipan political economy (which to me is no less an extension of Friar system couched in “Madisonian democracy,” one the American founding fathers designed against the so-called tyranny of the majority) after more than a century has in Noam Chomsky’s terms failed to justify itself. A system that cannot be justified after that long period of time must go. The systemic failure once acknowledged, it is time to go through another experiment, our own experiment, where every member of the body politic could be committed to an open inquiry of the system. The transitional coalition, which I’d hope to come out of the Randy David scheme above, is just one proposition towards an enduring vision of an independent modern Philippine state.
Yes, according to KG, let’s keep an open mind because indeed “we do need a lot of nation building to happen without annihilation.”
# 17 August 2007 at 10:35 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
“inodoro, you cannot win an argument just by using the word “balasubas”. c’mon, prove that your’s is not a “simple mind” by doing better than that.”
prove it to you? what for? don’t you know your metaphor? oh, okay, i get your point. balasubas is not appropriate. let me rephrase that for you: mandurugas pa rin ang balasubas na driver.
simple mind bencard is the myopic take of anything as everything in legal terms. which you–i admit–are good at. which very much reflects the stance of the balasubas driver i am metaphorically talking about.
you say democracy is a numbers game. bah, i wish you said that during the aborted impeachment of erap, which i was already resigned to accepting his acquittal because the opposition just did not have the numbers. what i could not accept is the legal manuevering to install a bogus president. you see, your driver learned so much from this experience, so much so that when she was put in the spotlight, she managed to kill the charges headon on the basis of technicality. democracy is by the people, for the people, from the people. not by her people, for her people, and from her people. you know who these eeky ilk are.
# 17 August 2007 at 10:47 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
what would you want to call a driver who repeatedly tries to beat the red light, if not balasubas then what–conscientious?
# 17 August 2007 at 10:51 am

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Rego, rego, rego, rage! (just to counterpoint your “Shaman, shaman, shanamagan…”)
First off. I’m very much a “he”. So, you may call me brother.
Calm down. I was challenging a mindset, an attitude, a point of view, not your person. No need to get upset. Don’t take it too personally. I also mentioned Bencard but by the looks of it, he didn’t mind. Thanks, Bencard.
To help you calm down, I’m not going to say anything further. Let me just say that I stand by what I have already said. How’s that for restraint?
I’ll leave you for now and take your advice to make “muni-muni”
# 17 August 2007 at 11:29 am

KG said:
Rego,
hehe, yeah,if I recall you live in New York medyo kailangan tough and straight to the point ang dating nga.
or was that in jersey….ah basta.
Mr. Abe, your comments here are really helping the analysis part of my researxch, though i loved reading Guerreros translation of Mabini linked here in this blog as well.I need to know what I am researching and tidbits help a lot. Time to do back reading on your blog too!
Yung sinasasbi kong scratch the coment awaiting moderation ay tungkol sa wikipedia entry about edsaII na muntik na naman akong maging tactless,na pinakaiiwasan ko nga.
Just click on wikipedia re:EDSAII and what is cited on EDSA II are two artcles posted by our man Benigo,read the one done by him ,not the NYT article na nakakapikon pag pikon ka. Title pa lang napikon na ako,which is admittedly wrong.
# 17 August 2007 at 11:52 am

rego said:
Alright brother Shaman, peace and enjoy your week end then.
Karl, its both I shutle between two homes,in nyc and in NJ. At parehong libre lang.In short nakikitira lang….
# 17 August 2007 at 12:24 pm

kampupot said:
“In the talk shows as of late:
Gloria might endorse or trash Noli,Lacsom night run
and the NP and LP might try to renew their rivalry through Roxas and Villar,and a wildcard in Gordon”
So sad at wild card lang pala si Gordon. Para sa aking siya ang pinaka-QUALIFIED para sa 2010 presidential election. Naba-vibrate ko kasi na sya ang makakatulong para i-solve ang small-minded issue sa blog na ‘to.
# 17 August 2007 at 12:26 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Bencard,
Ganito na lang, p’re. Why do you keep on saying that the charges against Gloria are “wild”, “no leg to stand on”, “unsubstantiated”, etc. etc. I would have thought that, for someone who is steeped in the concept of “probable cause”, at least you would see some “reason to believe” that cheating may have been committed in the “Hello, Garci” tapes and stealing may have been perpetrated in the Senate investigation of the fertilizer fund, just to take two of the many charges. Do we need proof beyond reasonable doubt to at least make Gloria stand trial?
Okay, perhaps the rule of law does not mandate that light be shed on charges, but shouldn’t justice cry out to be served? Oh, how I wish the American “…and justice for all” were in our Pledge of Allegiance, too.
Sure, numbers are inescapable in a democracy, but shouldn’t something be said about the “how” in arriving at those numbers? That it should not only be a game with hundreds of millions of the people’s money at stake for the taking by the “winners”, regardless of whether or not the ends of justice have been served? Are we going to be simply reduced to paraphrasing Madame Roland and crying out, “Oh Justice, how many crimes have been committed in thy name!”?
Is the rule of law just all about the stale letters of the constitution and the statutes? I remember that Marcos (whom you must have despised so much that you had to flee your beloved country) never failed to drape the letters of the law (by presidential decrees and letters of instructions) even on the most morally unconscionable acts of his and his cohorts’ and call it the rule of law. If that is the case, now I can understand why someone (I’ve learned not to mention his name) berated me for “tak(ing) a high moral stand”. Now, I understand why it is “gullible” of me to join those who demand that a President must be morally above reproach in the conduct of his/her duties. Now, it is clear why it is “simple-minded” of me to expect that a President must be made to account for betraying public trust.
Now, I understand.
# 17 August 2007 at 12:38 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
Thanks, brother Rego. Have a nice weekend, too.
# 17 August 2007 at 12:46 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
KG,
Thanks for your kind words.
I guess we just have to accept that there are people who are passionate about everything in daily life. So, things do really go over the brim. I think we just have to understand them. As for me, I simply try to limit my passion within the bedroom.
# 17 August 2007 at 2:04 pm

KG said:
SOM,
Hope your talking about one of the advices of tagakotta of enjoying ___ life.what else!
# 17 August 2007 at 2:47 pm

KG said:
Rego,
Enjoy your weekend,ingat dyan sa East Coast!
That goes to all of you,
bencard and benigno too!
Me nakapansin ba ke MLQ3 sa explainer nung tuesday?di ko napanood kahit replay.MLQ3 magparamdam ka naman.
# 17 August 2007 at 2:58 pm

Jeg said:
Nasan na nga ba si MLQ3? Di kaya umuwi muna siya sa Baler para ipagdiwang ang Linggo ng Wika?
# 17 August 2007 at 3:01 pm

Shaman of Malilipot said:
KG,
Have a pleasant and safe long weekend, too. Walang pasok sa Monday. RA 9492 moved the celebration of Ninoy Aquino Day to the Monday nearest August 21.
The wife has just called (no, not from the bedroom) urging me to go home early. I might just do that. Masarap sigurong mag-out-of-town later, away from the world-wide web.
# 17 August 2007 at 3:13 pm

KG said:
Jeg,baka nga!
S.O.M
bagyo (bed weather)dito sa Luzon,dyan siguro hindi, so enjoy the long weekend!
# 17 August 2007 at 4:06 pm

Bencard said:
inodoro, just to put to rest your simple-minded argument about red light. a red light is a predictable sequence of a device. a supreme court decision is unpredictable as it could get – depends on the individual opinion of the justices who cast votes to determine what the whole collegial body’s decision would be. pgma’s acts are VALID until sc decides, as a body. that it is not. now where does your “running the red light” analogy come in?
# 17 August 2007 at 6:51 pm

ratatouille said:
One of the main reason why Toyota surpassing GM as the Big Daddy of them all, is the cost to build them vehicles, more than anything else. U.S. autos can make just about any car they want, but paying hundred of thousands of already retired workers health care cost and all other benefits eats up a lot of cost that is added to the price per unit of car. While Japanese autos started assembling their cars in North American (toyota notably in Cambridge, ontario) it is also for their own advantage to qualify for NA contents for tax purposes and still the Japanese Autos don’t have a pool of thousands of retired workers to pay for health care (the reason why they prefer to build their assy. plants in Canada, if they can get away with it, is the lower cost of Health care)yet so they still get that advantage. And it’s a whopping $2000 per car average. Think about how much it will cost Ford and the other Big Two to underwrite the cost of Health Care of aging hundred of thousands retired workers, some retired at age 55. While in Japan the govt. take care of those.
# 17 August 2007 at 11:43 pm

indoro ni emilie said:
drat. you still don’t know your metaphor. ah, what semantics can do to a highly literal linear brain.
who’s talking about s.c. beating the red light. indeed the red light is a predictable sequence of a device. who’s using her driving skill to her advantage, with or without risking the issuance of a ticket? indeed beating the red light is nothing illegal. but this does not diminish the recklessness of the act–it’s joy ride fun isn’t it?
# 18 August 2007 at 9:08 am

indoro ni emilie said:
and cut the crap about this simple-mind mentality. your parroting benigs only reinforces benigs theory about pinoy’s lack of originality.
# 18 August 2007 at 9:13 am

Bencard said:
inodoro, see you are even confused with your own “metaphor”. aren’t you comparing sc to a red light and pgma the driver in connection with her e.o’s that were declared unconstitutional? (not sc beating the red light that you now are accusing me of talking about.) see how your mind works?
the crap is what you see in your environment. you are not inodoro for nothing. if i was parroting benigno, he was parroting nick joaquin, who was parroting jose rizal.
# 18 August 2007 at 9:32 am

inodoro ni emilie said:
drat again.
who issues the ticket: the red light?
“if i was parroting benigno, he was parroting nick joaquin, who was parroting jose rizal.”
you taking that as a compliment then? diminishing trickles of returns you have there. you build on the shoulders of the giant, not merely parrot them. ever wonder if a parrot even thinks what it is saying?
# 18 August 2007 at 3:29 pm

inodoro ni emilie said:
ride not build. too many speed driving here.
# 18 August 2007 at 3:31 pm

inodoro ni emilie said:
bencard,
let me spell this out (drat: spelling it out kills the metaphor) without literally spelling it out:
we agree who this reckless driver is. you just don’t agree that we call her “balasubas”.
whenever traffic rules are violated, IF the violater is FORTUNATELY caught, an attending traffic officer issues a ticket.
hint: the red light is a symbolic object that CANNOT hand in the violation ticket. so who could that entity be?
context: beating the red light is not illegal. a repeated act of driving recklessness, however, demands, at the very least, that a reprimand be lashed out at this balasubas driver.
hint: the red light cannot talk.
question: what then is the stop light–this device that tries to put order in the street? certainly not the issuing officer.
hint, hint, bencard: it’s your mantra!
# 18 August 2007 at 4:00 pm

KG said:
devils,
Thanks for agreeing.
i like that online legislation thing,kahit na medyo suntok sa bwan.
We will never know,before they thought the world was flat and the earth is in the middle of the solar system.
Just waiting for the olumbusses and the Copernicusses of today.Baka ikaw yun Devils?
# 18 August 2007 at 7:23 pm

cvj said:
Abe, thanks i needed that clarification.
KG, i also like Devils’ idea of online legislation. As much as possible, let’s make political representatives redundant. Anyway, the technology for this is already available and would only become cheaper with time.
# 18 August 2007 at 7:58 pm

vic said:
cjv, while you guys at it, also add on-line income tax file on, application for pensions, all renewals, including vehicles registrations, hunting licenses, even voting registrations. we have been doing it now, with an attached signature and that’s about it, for driver’s we still need to have a picture taking every five years, paspost just send in the forms, with an attached pics signed by your doc, dentist or pharmacist, no need to get out the comfort of your home and a little grease money to those lazy civil servants lest you will be on the bottom of the file…
# 18 August 2007 at 9:04 pm

Bencard said:
inodoro, i cannot agree about anything with your “metaphor” if i want to. it just doesn’t compute. enough of this simple-minded “debate”.
# 18 August 2007 at 9:40 pm

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