The forgotten front
This is only a hunch, but the foreign blogosphere seems far more interested in Philippine rebels behead 10 soldiers (see grim photos published by the Mindanao Examiner) than Filipino bloggers, particularly when it comes to commentary (simply reprinting entire news stories doesn’t cut it). What’s particularly interesting is this:
The government initially blamed Abu Sayyaf or renegade MILF militants for the kidnapping. However, the Roman Catholic news agency AsiaNews said criminal gangs were probably responsible for the abduction.
“The theory that Abu Sayyaf is behind the abduction of Fr Giancarlo Bossi does not hold water,” the news agency said. “Rather, from what we know, he is being held hostage by a gang of criminals.”
Among non-Filipino bloggers, the mood among the interested is grim unsurprise, as shown by Little Green Footballs. The Perpetual Malcontent, for one, seems exasperated by the AsiaNews story. WuzzaDem.com doesn’t think the American media is going to give the story the attention it deserves. as Minnesota Central puts it, there is a global war going on but media (including Bush-friendly media) doesn’t want to admit it. PrariePundit points out that while perhaps not very well known to Americans, the American-assisted campaign against the Abu Sayyaf represents “one of the most successful counterterrorism/counterinsurgency effort of the post-9/11period,” although the killing of the marines represents “a serious setback.” The blog relies heavily on Peter Brookes’ “The Forgotten Front,” which says,
The good news?
U.S.-Philippine operations have significantly weakened the terrorist group. Philippines forces have killed two senior ASG commanders since last December. One was sold out by an ASG member-turned-informant, motivated by the State Department’s rewards program.
Once 2,000 fighters strong, ASG’s been whittled down to around 200 to 300 today. As a result, its trademark bus and local market bombings have dropped off, as has its once-lucrative kidnapping practice. The threat has clearly receded.
But why has this operation shown success?
Indirect Approach: The United States isn’t doing the fighting. Philippine armed forces are – 15,000 of them, with 300 U.S. troops “advising and assisting.” Our forces are not only teaching counterinsurgency tactics and nighttime operations, they’re instructing the Filipinos to collect, analyze and fuse intelligence – even when it comes from a high-tech U.S. Predator drone.
This puts the local Philippine forces in the lead – and gives them the training and battlefield experience to provide a lasting capability that will endure long after the U.S. troops head home.
Hearts and Minds: A significant effort has been made to win local hearts and minds. U.S. and Philippine civil-affairs, humanitarian aid and exercises are helping separate the ASG from the general population. During regular joint “Balikatan” military exercises, Americans and Filipinos build roads, schools, water plants and piers that allow locals to build a better future for themselves – and instill trust and confidence in Manila.
Defense Reform: In 2002, the Pentagon undertook a bilateral program to help the Philippines identify much-needed defense reforms and boost our ally’s armed forces’ professionalization.
That extends to unsexy but vital areas such as maintenance and logistics. In 2001, Philippine military helicopters were mission-ready just 15 percent of the time. Today, those helos are ready for counterinsurgency 80 percent of the time.
Stick-to-itiveness: Despite up and downs in the bilateral relationship (especially when Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo withdrew forces from Iraq), Washington stuck to eliminating the ASG. Resolve makes a difference.
But the real question, it seems to me, is whether 10 Philippine Marines died at the hands of the Abu Sayyaf, or fell prey to a criminal gang. Philippine Commentary points to TV reporter sees empty houses before all hell breaks loose and gives a rundown of what happened; he’s particularly irked that the MILF issued a statement that the whole thing was in the nature of a command and control snafu, that they bore no responsibility but were quite gleefully willing to pick up weaponry from the battlefield.
if they were slain by the Abu Sayyaf, then did the terrorist group intercept the marines as they actually went after the bandits who have the Italian priest, or are the terrorists in league with the bandits, or trying to grab the bandits’ hostage? Whichever way you look at it, it seems a case of bad leadership on the part of the marines.
Let me say I am not a believer in the “see, people are dead! for their sake, abandon all your misgivings about current policy to fight terrorism!” way of arguing or thinking. I believe that this sort of argumentation strays very close to a terrorist mindset.
The President’s been making fire-breathing statements: 1st targets: Rogue AFP men, Reds, terrorists when it comes to the anti-terror law, which yesterday’s Inquirer editorial said should be reviewed now, rather than later. Study the law before making dire predictions, Palace tells critics of Human Security Act.
To help you figure out whether the opposition is valid or misguided, check out Part 1 and Part 2 of Geronimo L. Sy’s efforts to explain the anti-terror law’s provisions.
Meanwhile, AFP troops back in NCR.
In political news, on the evening of my last entry, the Comelec had already made a sudden volte-face: after Comelec flip-flops on Zubiri proclamation, it became COMELEC defers Zubiri proclamation. And just when the public was already set to cheer or jeer (see Winners make losers. Losers make excuses and starfish hands and Tinkie Fantasy for contrasting views) now Comelec in a bind over proclamation (I don’t buy Sarmiento’s logic). Anyway, for now, Koko Pimentel gears up for final stand.
Also,even as JDV: Secret ballot you want, secret ballot you get, there’s a twist: JdV supporters oppose secret vote proposal in choosing speaker while Garcia: JdV lost moral ascendancy for Speakership (on related matters, De Venecia son hit on broadband deal and GMA presses JdV to make Mikey energy committee chairman); in his column, Efren Danao says he think de Venecia still has the edge, but also goes into an educational description of an oft-used political word, “caucus”:
A caucus is held mainly to prevent a bloody or protracted confrontation on the floor. It is not true that only members of the same political party can hold a caucus. Members of different political parties belong to a coalition, whether administration or opposition, can hold a caucus. It can also involve both the majority and the minority, as in an all-Senate caucus which is held quite often.
Any one who says a caucus to settle the speakership issue is redundant because the official balloting will still take place on July 23 ignores the real nature of a caucus. It is a parliamentary tradition that any decision arrived at in a caucus will be binding on every one present. If Pabling wins at the caucus, JdV’s supporters will go for him on July 23. JdV is being true to parliamentary tradition when he said he would personally nominate Pabling on July 23 should Pabling win in the caucus. Those who do not want to be bound by any decision contrary to their own sentiments usually avoid caucuses like a plague.
Here is an addendum to the issue of secret balloting for the speakership as proposed by the Garcia camp. In my column last Monday, Rep. Raul del Mar of Cebu City said that secret balloting is contrary to House rules that prescribe roll call voting. Rep. Arthur Defensor explained why the rules called for roll call vote. Art, whom I also covered at the regular Batasan, stressed that a roll call vote is needed to determine who should belong to the majority and to the minority. Those who voted for the winner will constitute the majority and those for the loser, the minority. Definitely, the members of the majority and the minority could not be ascertained in a secret balloting.
Overseas: China executes former food safety chief over fake medicines. And Dr. Enzo von Pfeil gets interviewed on whether and how another Asian financial crisis could take place. Elizabeth Wilner suggests that in American politics, there aren’t any second chances anymore.
My column today is You get what you wish for; my Arab News column for this week is Nuclear Option Is Back on the Table in Philippines.
A brilliant passage from Manuel Buencamino’s blow-by-blow account of how the administration targeted Gringo Honasan and then, when Honasan became cooperative, suddenly pulled a rabbit out of its legal hat:
Susmaryosep! If a finding can be pulled out of a hat to let Honasan off the hook, why couldn’t the same be done for Trillanes?
Was it because rather than doing a Gringo, Senator Trillanes swore he would investigate extrajudicial killings, reopen the Garci case and continue to work for Mrs. Arroyo’s impeachment?
No, said government mouthpieces. Under the principle of equality before the law, Senator Trillanes deserved the same treatment as a pedophile who was twice elected to Congress while in detention and who, recently, received a commutation of sentence from a close family friend, Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo.
There’s no need to detail the absurd Trillanes/Jalosjos parallel. Suffice it to say that mounting an 11-year-old girl to satisfy one’s perverted craving is not the same as mounting a mutiny against corrupt military leaders.
There is a difference between patriotism and pedophilia; between a man who stands for his beliefs no matter what and a trapo who stands principles on their head whenever it’s expedient. There is a difference between “ de jureâ€Â and “ de facto†; between the rule of law and the rule of outlaws. But this regime wants you to believe “there ain’t no difference.â€Â
Time and time again, this regime has used the law to mock the rule of law. And it has never hesitated to substitute a putative sovereign’s will for the sovereign will of the people. But this regime wants you to believe “it ain’t so.â€Â
The same Justice Gonzalez who pulled that rabbit out of his hat, is the very same Gonzalez in this news story: Justice chief relieves Velasco from Burgos case. More in Burgos prosecutor sacked after tagging Isafp agents.
As Erap trial judges reach consensus, there’s the view of Billy Esposo that the ads, etc. are actually an Estrada supporters’ plot. He says something I believe to be true:
How many out there will be willing to risk life, limb and fortune to fight and die for Joseph “Erap†Estrada? It is one thing to sympathize with Estrada the jailbird or vote for the candidates he endorses. But to suggest that millions, or nay, even just thousands of people are willing to confront the State’s armed and police forces over a guilty verdict for Estrada is stretching the limits of the imagination too far.
Then he goes on to suggest that
Before the ad came out, no one had really challenged the fairness of the Sandiganbayan in handling the Estrada plunder case. Up to that day, the public had generally given the Sandiganbayan the benefit of the doubt that Estrada will get a fair trial and verdict.
But after the ad came out, the Estrada camp went to town to claim that a guilty verdict has been rigged. This tends to erode the public’s trust in the capability of the Sandiganbayan to render an impartial verdict. It leads the public to conclude that the Arroyo regime had already gone out of its way to force the court to render a guilty verdict.
In a way, the brand of justice that Secretary Raul Gonzalez had accustomed us to expect has conditioned the public to become cynical of court verdicts in the Arroyo era. Madame Gloria Macapagal Arroyo had cast the seeds of that kind of justice that Gonzalez sows, so she only deserves to reap that sort of public cynicism.
But think again  did you really believe that the Arroyo regime would be so stupid to place that kind of an ad? Common sense will tell you that ad creates an information environment that bolsters only the kind of thinking that the Estrada camp would want to promote.
A point to consider, though I’ve never been keen on the “they’d never be so dumb to do that!” argument. You really never know. For every act of brilliance, or at least breathtaking boldness, a political player’s capable off, there’s always the chance that a blunder can take place. Tony Abaya thinks the middle class has been permanently antagonized by the Estrada camp (I agree):
Given Erap’s past history of colluding with the comradesâ€â€not out of ideological commitment, but out of his personal desire to be freed from detention and cleared of the plunder chargeâ€â€whatever violence is generated by a guilty verdict will not elicit support from the middle class, which avoided earlier efforts to entice them in 2003, 2005 and 2006, no matter how unpopular President Arroyo has become.
A not guilty verdict would embolden Erap and his entourage to try again, for the fourth time, to topple the Arroyo government, but such an enterprise is not likely to generate sympathy and support from the middle class, especially since the economy is doing fairly well and very few, if any, would want to do anything to muddy the economic waters, at least not for such undeserving persons as Erap and his communist allies.
Today’s Inquirer editorial says the trial’s been political from the start, but that the court’s handled things fairly well; see also the views of Marichu Lambino. Personally, I think people have made up their mind either way, but that one court people will end up respecting will be the Supreme Court -and the Sandiganbayan verdict will most likely be appealed, anyway.
An interesting column by Connie Veneracion on how she teaches.
In the blogosphere, even as columnists like Nestor Mata weigh in (pro Villar) bloggers ponder the Senate merry-go-round: big mango wonders which matters more, romance or practicality.
Placeholder on how giving up anonymity doesn’t necessarily mean one has to give up privacy.
Thanks to J. Dennis Torres and fmontserrat for the endorsements.
Technorati Tags: Blogging, elections, human rights, ideas, media, military, politics, president, Senate, society, war, Washington DC
The siege at the Red Mosque in Pakistan and the so called terrorist problem in the ARRM. The Jihadi in Pakistan walked his talk. They slowly escalated their attempt at imposing radical Islamicism and were smashed as they left the Government of Pakistan with no other choice. He wanted to become a “shaheed” and the government gladly allowed him to become one.
Does that kind of radical militant Islam exist in the Philippine scene? Pakistan has always been an authoritarian state. There are no institutions to allow citizens to address valid issues vs the government. This allows crazies to enter the leadership vacuum to address perceived slights by authoritarian governments.
In the Philippine scene the Philippine state has been represented by the military in the Muslim areas for generations. Sadly, the brutality of battles is not a new development. The military establishment knows fully well that their men are in a battle zone. It has been that way for a long time.
Men who have been honed in the ways of warfare and violence who seem to know nothing else for generations will also take generations for them to evolve into productive human beings. I doubt if the bulk of these men could tell what the hell they are fighting for.
The problems in areas where no state exists is clearly similar to the situation in Iraq where no one knows what they are killing each other for any longer.
Once again the choice of total war and annihilation comes to the fore. The choice for Jihadism is a simple solution to a complex problem.
Could the Human Security Act resolve the problem which clearly seems to be a case of the lack of government in these areas which is eerily similar to what happened in Lebanon some years ago.
Establishing state power over lawless areas is not an easy task for a weak state. Outsourcing the responsibility to the Americans and Australians will not work. Much less for a government who seems at a loss on how to govern effectively.
A primary example is Nur Misuari who is simply existing simply on the public dime and is allowed special privileges in spite of his being totally irrelevant.
To frame this as part of a vast conspiracy of Islamic Facism is totally outrageous.
Those marines became “shaheeds” for what cause? What a waste of good men.
I distinctly remember that incident where members of the Philippine Scouts did not have enough ammunition when they encountered members of the ASG.
You see all these fancy officers with all their fancy decorations lining up to greet the President when she travels or is welcomed to a place. This is no longer a farce as it has long become a continuing tragedy.
why are you surprised that filipino bloggers aren’t reacting to the beheading of soldiers? the answer ought to be pretty obvious: when the people you demonize relentlessly are on the receiving end of tragedy, you don’t call attention to it because they might get sympathy. did you write much about it? because pointing to articles about the gruesomeness doesn’t count either, i suppose.
and no, this isn’t a reflection of how the public perceives the soldiery, but more a picture of the biases of bloggers.
Rom is right. When the Liberal Establishment treats the military as enemies of freedom, blaming them for everything from extrajudicial killings to electoral fraud, what’ve the bloggers got to regurgitate but the same blasted drivel?
Manolo, you are creating a false distinction with your question: did the Marines fall to the ASG or to a criminal gang?
The only question really is, was the criminal gang that did this also a terrorist gang? The circumstances of the ambush do not speak of a criminal gang. What are you suggesting? That a criminal gang wanted to kidnap fifty members of the First Infantry Battalion and hold them for ransom? And that they engaged the fully armed troops in a nine hour all out gun battle in order to do so ?? C’mon!
The MILF admits they did the fighting and killing, and then some “unknown groups” did the beheading and mutilation. Speculation points to Isnilon Hapilon, who just lost a son and got himself shot in the mouth…If you read carefully the PDI account, it really sounds as if the soldiers were taken prisoner and THEN beheaded and mutilated. It was combined force of Abus and MILF. There really is no distinction among them except when they find it convenient to make the distinction. We are fools enough in the Media to broadcast their deceptions.
Those are WAR CRIMES, but I doubt very much that our new found friends in the European Union who are so CONCERNED about human rights in these parts would give a damn! And of course we care more about Abu Ghraib than Basilan!
Can you just imagine what it must be like to SAW OFF a man’s head? How about TEN MEN?
Folks, this is beginning to approach the macabre, though worse is the indifference to these young men who’ve given their lives looking for Father Bossi so we don’t have to!
My God, and to look back on all the passion and fervor and patriotism that is often expressed in all these blogs and comment threads.
I was just reading some stuff over at Ellen Tordesillas. The idiotarians over there are just too much to take…making excuses for these murdering decapitators and ghouls…wring their wrists at the root causes…yucch!
I think it is unfair to say that just because Filipino bloggers haven’t blogged about the despicable incident, they are not interested. This line of thinking is patently unfair. It doesn’t necessarily follow.
Come on Manuel, I gave a statement, albeit concise… I think, local bloggers will be writing more about this in the coming days..
I said the following,
in the following comments,
I’m having computer problems, I’ll be writing a more in depth commentary soon..
I agree with Arbet..
DJB sees this as an opportunity to wrap himself up with the Filipino flag. If there’s anything we learned in the past five years, in these matters, we have to follow the relatively level-headed approach shown by the Brits. American-style jingoism and war-mongering will only lead us further deeper into the quagmire.
Rom and DJB,
I didn’t read it the way you did. I suppose mlq3 was saying that the marines had a tactical mistake by trusting the enemy. It would seem they were merely on a march order because of the supposed ceasefire with the MILF. You don’t trust your enemy even if there is a ceasefire.
A friend who is in the military put it this way: Abu Sayyaf Group represents the enemy forces. The MILF, on the other hand, are the “Friendly” enemy forces because of the ceasefire.
Stated differently, in combat operations you do not trust those who are not your allies.
DJB, I think you’re bias against the so-called Liberal Establishment tends to put words on the mouth of those you argue against. Come to think of it, with GMA in power and the AFP solidly behind her back, there is no Liberal Establishment as of yet in this country.
At this point, i think it is also prudent to warn against any bum advice coming from our foreign ‘allies’. For example, we have to remember that it is the MILF that hit us so the military has to retaliate accordingly against them. Using this incident to go off and round up suspected ‘communists’ is about as strategically sound as the USA’s going after Saddam instead of Bin Laden.
cvj:the brits are seriously thinking of passing an anti-terror law too, aren’t they?
And to call people names is not only patently unfair, but also a sign of desperation.
Why hit on the liberals? Who shapes and controls policy? The Fortress by the Pasig. Why not hit it instead? If you think snuffing the life out of the MILF is the answer, hit the policy, hit the shaper of policy. The liberals may cry their hearts out, but they don’t craft policy. Hitting the liberals for something they cry about but have no control is barking at the wrong tree.
cvj:who said anything about rounding up communists? oh. we’re just warning the government, aren’t we?
arbet:i didn’t know describing some group as “liberal” was considered name-calling. as opposed to the “Fortress by the Pasig” being a mere euphemism, i suppose.
Rom,
The Brits have already passed 4 laws dealing with terrorism since 2000.
Rom, i need to see the details of the proposed law before i can comment on it. Anyway, what i like about the Brits’ methodology is that they use good police action to handle their problems with terrorists. The ideologues who shout ‘dhimmi’ and seek to divide the Muslim population from the rest of their citizenry don’t seem to be in charge, at least not yet. I also don’t think they ship suspects to other countries to be tortured or keep a concentration camp like Guantanamo. (Of course, it’s unfortunate that Blair became W’s poodle, that part i don’t agree with.)
Rom, people and places are different. And I am not talking about you labeling people as liberal. If you cannot spot ad hominem errors, then it is no longer my problem.
cvj,
It’s embarrassing isn’t it? To criticize a law like HSA for months and months and then have something happen just as it is about to come into effect that so stunningly speaks for its necessity. MILF are cruisin’ for a bruisin’ and need to be put in with their paisanos: the ASG.
And what may I ask, is so wrong about wrapping oneself in the Flag?
Jaxius,
Consider the fact that the gunbattle lasted for nine hours! This was not some kind of chance encounter that resulted in a few random shots being fired. Then after they captured ten of those soldiers, they beheaded them!
It’s like saying Julia Campbell made a “tactical mistake” hiking alone in the Cordilleras. Come to think of it that’s what Manila Bay Watch was saying yesterday: that it’s the soldier’s fault for only bringing sixty men!
but this is precisely what I mean by the Liberal Establishment. You folks will bend over backwards to try and understand a bunch of cutthroats so you can blame it on us.
Like CVJ, she thinks it’s wrong to care about victims if they happen to be soldiers.
arbet:its ok. i didn’t call anyone a liberal (oh no, Kurt! i know a dirty word too!).
DJB,
The battle lasted for nine hours and that is what puzzles me. Were those 70 marines the only AFP forces in Basilan? I imagine those hapless marines were rendered isolated from the main force that it took them 9 hours to get to “allied territory”.
Where were the reinforcements? I wonder whether they wandered so very far from any allied troops by their own initiative or by command of higher headquarters? That is the tactical blunder I was referring to.
As they say, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You are seeing a connection that’s not there.
Try to get a hold of yourself. You’re putting words into other people’s mouth which i don’t think a person of your caliber needs to resort to.
Arbet,
Why hit on liberals?
Well, for one think, it is Liberals who keep saying that we don’t need an anti-terrorism law. they keep saying that such a law will be used to suppress human rights.
Yet why are Liberals silent, –abashedly silent!– when things like this happen? Is it because they would have to show a measure of support for the Armed Forces and by implication for GMA?
That is reprehensible, if true.
But it is true, judging by comments in threads less unashamed of their politically correct dhimmitude than this one. Liberals are finding all sorts of ways to blame the Armed Forces or the Govt.
A particularly twisted line, coming even from the govt itself, is that peace talks with the MILF must be saved at all costs.
I heard Ermita mouthing such drivel even as the corpses of those ten soldiers were probably still giving up their tenants’ last full measure of devotion.
It’s not we that ought to be wrapped up in the Flag, CVJ, but them!
Since you asked…
…i hope that answers your question.
…Perspective…
Could anything be
more sad and absurd
than ten people
being beheaded
while looking
for a missing Italian priest
in the driving rain?
…well may be yessss…
the Liberal silence
Someone needs to clean his ears…or at least read Nick’s comment above (at July 12th, 2007, 2:27 pm).
I think whatever the liberals say don’t matter to the fact at hand (unless they are in power). Hitting them will be a useless exercise.
Again, whoever shapes the policy is the problem.
Dean, question: if HSA is in effect a month ago, how can it prevent the despicable incident yesterday?
Ten mothers.
Ten fathers.
Ten sons.
Twenty stems and roses.
Arbet,
An important aspect of HSA is increasing the intelligence capabilities of law enforcement and the military. The huge attacking force was well coordinated, but the police and military should know when and where large concentrations of MILF/ASG troops are. HSA could have prevented what happened! Imagine if the cellphone networks are being monitored, that channel would not be available to insurgent troops and rebels, severely hampering their large scale operations. Let them use smoke signals, but not smart or globe.
DJB, maybe you would want to revise your poem a little to account for the other 4 soldiers who were killed (but not beheaded). We should equally care for them all.
I love it, DJB says liberal silence…
manuel says Filipino blogger silence…
I say, deafness for those who care not to listen — and selective blindness for those trying to advance an agenda…
Also, Liberal becomes name calling, when it insinuates that a person loses free will and has to be bound by ideology…
i’m liberal on some issues, conservative on others…
reminds me of Bush calling Kerry a liberal from Massachusetts…
stick to the issue please.
I don’t think there is a Filipino out here that doesn’t feel the shock and even pain at this atrocity..
Sort of like the propaganda coming from Bush Admin, saying “those who don’t support the war, also doesn’t support the troops”
logical or propaganda??
CVJ,
I’ve got news for you.
We ARE the Jews.
If you say so, Herman.
Dean,
You are like those MILF fighters that you so despise – not to be trusted when it comes to interpreting what they read (in their case, their ‘interpretation’ of the terms of ceasefire with Gloria), you can’t see beyond the tip of your nose – that you should say, insist, put words in my mouth and others here that I blame the foot soldiers for getting killed is really pathetic. I blame their frigging commander – the ONE WHO IS ALIVE for getting his men killed, you plonker!
Point ONE & ONE LINE TO ME WHEREIN I BLAMED THEM. Don’t be a goddman pillock, Dean! Your head is getting overruled by your testosterones!
Cutting and pasting from the MILF hooch(luwaran dot com): Majid also disclosed that 23 Marines were killed on the spot including 10 who were “beheaded†by unknown groups after the fighting.
…Majid also said the MILF forces captured 27 firearms described as follows: six (6) M-60 machineguns; eight (8) M-203 grenade launchers, ten (1) M-16 Armalite rifles, one (1) 60mm mortar, and several night vision goggles.
Hmmm…how convenient…”unknown groups”… but it is clear from the MILF statement that those beheaded were maybe alive after the fighting, before they were decapitated, in which case it would be a clear case of a WAR CRIME breach of the Geneva Conventions. Even if those “unknown groups” had done the decaps after the fighting and the men were dead, then they would be guilty of desecrating corpses, also considered a WAR CRIME under the Geneva Conventions (and common human decency.) In either case, the perpetrators are revealed to be…coprophiliacs!
The MILF and ASG do not represent the Bangsa Moro People! How can they? They are monsters, not men, warlords and warlocks, not wise spiritual leaders, which the Liberal Media is trying so hard to make the new Abu honcho out to be. Pweh! I say, Pweh!
It is naive to think that the battle against islamic terrorism will be fought only in the jungles of Basilan. Manila is not so far and I bet a lot of so-called liberals would quickly change stripes after their favorite Starbucks is car-bombed one of these days. A prototype IED was discovered by police in Cagayan de Oro city about a month ago, suspected to be the work of Indonesian terrorists operating in the country.
Arbet,
An important aspect of HSA is increasing the intelligence capabilities of law enforcement and the military. The huge attacking force was well coordinated, but the police and military should know when and where large concentrations of MILF/ASG troops are. HSA could have prevented what happened! Imagine if the cellphone networks are being monitored, that channel would not be available to insurgent troops and rebels, severely hampering their large scale operations. Let them use smoke signals, but not smart or globe.
arbet, why is it unfair? we’re closer to events, why should we be the last to comment?
Quezon here has calmly pointed out “Whichever way you look at it, it seems a case of bad leadership on the part of the marines.”
That’s exactly what I meant too and I’ve been saying that since yesterday.
Operations wise, how did those 10 marines get beheaded? Could only mean that they were operating by squads with no back-up support in extremely hostile and enemy territory, you goddamn don’t do that. You provide air cover, naval gun fire and don’t tell me that geographically navy gun trajectory wasn’t feasible! In that case, there should have been 80mm guns surrounding the battle perimeter within a 9km radius!
djb, i don’t see how the events justifies the new law. what we have is one report that says, its criminals that abducted the priest. the other reports, to my mind, suggests a possibility we should consider: that the milf are muscling into the act, that the abu sayaff might have already muscled in, that it’s even possible the abu sayyaf are being used as scapegoats. still another possibility, and it’s one i find the most alarming, which is why i asked the questions i did, is that you have a new, as in totally new, bandit group, or a new, as in cobbled together from old groups, bandit group strong and resourceful enough to give our marines a whipping.
this is a command and control question. why is it, after foreign observers can speak glowingly of our anti abu sayyaf efforts, did the marines end up ambushed and our troops abducted in that manner? the accounts seem to suggest that they didn’t even have the means to put up a good fight. which seems to indicate to me that something is rotten in terms of our officer corps, and that something needs looking at in terms of our soldiers’ ability to fight.
and again how on earth an anti-terrorism law matters at this point is beyond me. starting with the priest -it’s a kidnapping. it’s a search-and-rescue operation. and where are the demands or how are the crimes being currently committed in the nature of terrorism and not plain banditry and kidnapping?
rom, i think i’ve been careful to support the armed forces where they should be supported. and yes, to point to articles is precisely to point to an issue.
Not every one can grasp the gravity of every situation, Sir Manolo. That’s my point.
And add the fact that not every blogger has the means to post about it FAST.
MLQ3,
An important feature of the new law is the attempt to modernize and upgrade our Intelligence Gathering capabilities. The disposition of enemy forces is an elementary aspect of military management, and could’ve prevented this situation. The scale of the investment and the type of capability we should acquire ought to be guided both by the war on terror and the need to be able to make the fine distinctions you seem to want. Legislation is more than enforcement, it is also institutional development, both of technology and human resources.
How can you ask what the relevance of an anti terror law is in this case, when the Abu Sayyaf is involved. You can’t hide behind the idea of “criminal elements”. I mean c’mon Manolo, what criminal gang of ordinary kind takes on the First Infantry Battalion???
Peter Brooke’s question “The Good News?” remains a question, and will remain a question, no more no less particularly in light of this military operation fiasco.
Someone said it already. They were stuck there 9 hours and where were the reinforcements?
And those dud mortar shells they were using? Kudos to GMA7 for being there to show us that.
“The huge attacking force was well coordinated, but the police and military should know when and where large concentrations of MILF/ASG troops are. HSA could have prevented what happened! ”
I simply am gobsmacked! The AFP doesn’t need the HSA to modernize their intelligence gathering methods and equipment. They have THE BEST OF THE GODDAMN BEST methodology and equipment at their disposal – US sattelites, US information, etc, etc, etc, that is in addition to the equipment that both AFP-PNP intelligence units have at their disposal today that they’ve purchased and have upgraged several times over since 2000!
I will agree with you that there is gross negligence in the military management of the operations. That’s where the problem is.
Your HSA will not provide them with better intelligence gathering ammo than those the AFP-PNP already have and use.
The very aspects of the new law that civil libertarians and human-rights activists seem most worried about are also the ones that could potentially make the war on terror “working smart” instead of “working hard”.
On top of the expected improvement in intelligence gathering capabilities, there is also the matter of disrupting their material and financial support systems. It takes a lot to feed, clothe, shelter and arm 300 gun men capable of takin on the First IB. Those systems need to be degraded and taken out.
Finally, the anti terror law can put a stop to the never ending Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde charade about who is who, lost commands and bandits, etc. by putting the finger on the spades and calling them what they are.
The HSA is front and center on this one MLQ3. Front and center!
Dean, can’t tapping phones be done even without HSA? If intelligence is the problem, why don’t we address that instead of enacting a law that can be problematic at the wrong hands?
Cut the crap and tha faux flag-waving, DJB.
Those who beheaded the marines are rightly called savages.
But what does one call someone who picks-up those decapitated heads and uses them as props to sell the Anti Terror Law?
Look at what you told cvj:
“It’s embarrassing isn’t it? To criticize a law like HSA for months and months and then have something happen just as it is about to come into effect that so stunningly speaks for its necessity. MILF are cruisin’ for a bruisin’ and need to be put in with their paisanos: the ASG.”
You composed a sappy poem about 10 beheaded marines and you ignored the others who also died. Why? Because the propaganda shock value is not there?
Stop molesting the dead, DJB! It’s beneath you to engage in such behavior!
Dean,
Your HSA will not help this government dismantle the material and financial support systems for the MILF for as long as this government allows THE MALAYSIANS to head and control the panel and for as long as this government permits Malaysian “advisers” to advise your MILF!
The financial support systems don’t have to go through banks – they can be brought in bauls by a nondescript vessel plying the Sabah and Tawi-Tawi routes (where there is virtually no control).
arbet, but i didn’t post about it fast, either.
rom: i ended up posting a response but since i’m not registered, it came out as “anonymous”
MB,
The four dead Marines died honorably in battle. The Ten were captured, then beheaded by coprophiliacs. I don’t honor the four any less, but feel greater melancholy for the ten.
MLQ3,
Be consoled! The whole idea behind the law is also DEMILITARIZATION of the problem. Now it is a matter for police, the Chr, the courts! I like that because no one can hide from their Duty to defend the Republic.
Sir Manolo, again: the means, which includes time, infrastructure, monetary considerations. Not every one is a problogger/full-time blogger. Some have desk jobs to attend to.
MBW,
The money has to be spent here to buy bullets and noodles (halal). It can be interdicted and the support system at least degraded. We don’t have the legal means to do that yet, but with HSA we will. These are probably more important than any military moves against the terrorists.
an ounce of Prevention is better than a pound of cure.
I consider that arbet and Manolo may both have a point…
most Filipino bloggers are tech, showbiz, or personal bloggers…
I’ve come to realize this with my Musa Dimasidsing writing project when someone replied to my invitation to express their reaction to the murder of Musa Dimasidsing with a simple, “I am politically apathetic”… “I am a technology blogger”
Pardon my outrage at this apathy
And some just can’t blog about this on the spot, ricky Carandang hasn’t blogged about this (I consider his schedule), but I am not concluding that he is not outraged..
But in general, on a collective note, manuel has a point..
search blogs with judy ann Santos, you’ll get better results..
philippine political bloggers are rare..
I don’t get it, “We don’t have the legal means to do that yet, but with HSA we will.”
To do what? Stop the MILF spending the money they may receive that’s expedited in bauls by sea freight? And how do you propose to do that? Catch the MILF fighters in the act of spending the money by brandishing your HSA?
You will have a better crack by sending home those Malaysian advisers first.
MB,
My poetry may be sappy,
but my conscience is happy.
for even allah works in mysterious ways,
and not even your dour countenance darkens the days.
And where do you reckon they buy the bullets (the jalal noodles they can buy from their Chinese friend – singular – there)?
djb, the same kind of criminal elements that play dodge ‘em with our navy, and outruns our navy with their boats smuggling drugs, etc. the same criminal elements that engage in piracy not out of any ideological motivation, but for the sheer… piracy of it.
we’re approaching the problem from different angles, i guess. i agree fully 100% that if a law can be passed improving intelligence gathering, that law ought to be passed. but you see, you have a law not concerned only with intelligence gathering, but with apprehension and sentencing, which seeks to create a new type of punishable crime… that’s where it gets tricky.
arbet:ad hominems abound in manuelbuencamino’s posts. maybe your just not as fast at criticizing someone you agree with. in the meantime, if not the HSA, what would be the best response to the beheadings?
I agree with Nick’s observation. It’s just that I am allergic to things unfair. Peace.
Send home the MILF’s Malaysian advisers first.
Then round up their Indonesian friends.
Give up Bossi for good so you can pummel the MILF with no back thought!
djb, incidentally, if an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (i agree) and better intelligence and interdicting funds can go a long way in preventing terrorism (i also agree, but isn’t this what the anti money-laundering law was supposed to help prevent), then why is ermita wrong when he points to the need to be cautious and look after the peace process. i actually think the peace process is one area where the government is actually moving forward and where talks have been productive. could it not be, that a faction of the milf wants to blow the peace process up, and is thus eager to take credit for beheading the marines? so you would give in to this hard-line group, on the argument that the only good muslim is a dead muslim?
Rom, it depends on what you mean by best response?
MLQ3,
I don’t believe that the peace process is going somewhere.
Rom, I respect all kinds of opinions, even ad hominems. If you notice, I rarely comment in here. I don’t posts comments in Uniffors (I hate registrations), where MB blogs.
Here is the comment you are alluding to: And to call people names is not only patently unfair, but also a sign of desperation.
I am not pertaining to anyone in particular; I am pertaining to every one who resorts to ad hominem.
Nice try, Rom. Better luck next time. That is, I get to post comments here. As I have said, I comment here very rarely.
arbet, the level-headed nick points out where we can meet half way
manila bay watch: hmm… why not? i’d be interested why you think not…
In the case of the ongoing ‘war’ near the land of below the wind, I don’t see the MILF as Muslims – I see them as a brutal, hard core force from which all these gangsters emanate – it’s a “parallel” army that ought to be destroyed.
And to answer your question, Rom: end the peace talks, take these bandits to task, get their financiers. This has been done before, but was overtaken by Edsa 2.
Sir Manolo, I respect you, you know that. We agree to disagree. =P
DJB,
Surrounded by decapitated heads as props
if that don’t work he’ll juggle them for you until one drops,
he knows it’s low but that don’t matter
it’s the anti terror law that’s all he’s after,
Mlq3,
You can’t have a peace process when you allow a foreign government with vast interests, political and material, in that particular area to control the negotiations IN YOUR TERRITORY (The Philippines) and when you allow the same “peace advisers” to conduct and control the logistical inputs on which you base the terms of negotiations.
Mlq3,
The Malaysians will surely “kill” me for this but I dare say, they will let this peace nego go on forever and ever because they haven’t finished the building of their Sabah submarine base (in Lomok) yet.
Anyway, not to worry – I have no doubt, HSA or no HSA, the Marines, the Scout Rangers and every element of this poorly-led AFP will go on a murderous rampage to avenge the deaths of their comrades.
This is when you all ought to be wary because even the kids in the neighbourhood run the risk of being slaughtered when military operation avenger happens…
arbet: oops. my bad. when you wrote: “And I am not talking about you labeling people as liberal. If you cannot spot ad hominem errors, then it is no longer my problem.” you didn’t mean to criticize ad hominems.gotcha. oh, and we take these bandits to task? they must be trembling in their little booties by now. nice try, too arbet. but no cigar.
cvj:you guys are the ones with the deep thoughts about the HSA, so i suppose you can tell me what your idea of a best response is. what parameters are there? what outcomes will satisfy you?
MBW:no shit?! they’re building a submarine base there? seriously. i didn’t know malaysia had that kind of hardware.
mlq3:saw your post.figgered it was you when i saw the word “muscling”
rom, yes i do have my ideas but i was also hoping you would share your thoughts as well.
Rom and Arbet,
I admit I use ad hominem attacks and very often these days. But look at it this way, and I make no reference to anyone in this blog in particular.
I agree one should argue over ideas, opinions etc without getting personal but when, as the saying goes, you begin to suspect that its “the devil quoting scripture” arguing with you, do you call him on it or do you pretend you are still engaged in intelligent debate?
I think there’s a certain point where you just say fuck you asshole. I guess that’s what Arbet calls desperation. But really, how can you, for example, not call names a guy like Abalos who blames the moral degeneracy of voters for last May’s election? Are you going to get into an argument about moral degeneracy, the character of Filipinos, the electoral system etc. with a guy like that or are you just going to invite to Shang Palace and pour hot soup on his fucking head?
I’m sorry if I offend you with my ad hominem attacks. But as the saying goes, “the devil made me do it.”
cvj:ah. but that’s the rub. the purpose of the question was to elicit original thoughts, not reactions to other people’s opinions.
manuelbuencamino:no sweat. i like ad hominem. its one of those things that people pretend to dislike because some logic 101 teacher called it a fucking fallacy, but actually use all the time. kinda like the spice girls. no one evar admits to having their CDs …
Forgotten front? I guess you’re wrong about your hunch…
blogsearchengine listed the following blogs:
(1)
Mindanao Rebels: What kind of people are they?
… beheaded 10 marines. Why behead them? Why kidnapped a priest? Is it an order from their religion? What kind of God would order… for the Marines, and Brigadier General Ramiro Alivio, chief of 1st Marine Brigade, said 10 of the 14 who had been reported missing were …
(Jul 11, 2007 09:03) – Pinoy x-sa KSA
(2)
SELF DEFENSE = BEHEADING
… their positions.†Yet after the smoke cleared, 14 Marines were killed, 10 of them who were reportedly missing were found beheaded. The MILF said… of sighting of Fr. Bossi proved to be false. The MILF said they acted in self defense but they cannot explain why the bodies of 10 Marines were …
(Jul 11, 2007 09:38) – THE PATSADA KARAJAW NATION
(3)
14 marines killed in battle with MILF
… spokesman for the Marines, and Brigadier General Ramiro Alivio, chief of 1st Marine Brigade, said 10 of the 14 who had been reported… there be such force leveled against the military? COTABATO CITY– Fourteen Marines searching for a kidnapped Italian priest had been …
(Jul 11, 2007 13:13) – Tingogdotcom
To me an armed army of men and women, rebels or not, but with whom the Philippine government officially negotiates, either for “peace” or for other reasons, i.e., for an independent homeland, their own territory, who are in fact prepared to take on the official army of the nation is a parallel army, virtually at par with the official Philippine Army. No other way to put it really. Or in a country that seeks stability, law and order and peace, one cannot have other armies operating in parallel to that nation’s official army.
The existence in the country of parallel armies that are almost as powerful in terms of firepower, ‘military’ dogma and reach as the nation’s official army undermines not only the effectiveness of that nation’s official army but also makes it difficult for the official army to professionalize its ranks.
Rom, i thought the purpose was to exchange ideas (never mind if it’s original or not). Anyway, the best response to me is one that will take into account the interests of the following:
1. Residents of Basilan who are not armed combatants, but may potentially be affected by the fighting.
2. The residents of the rest of Mindanao.
3. The widows and immediate family of the slain soldiers.
4. The soldiers who are doing the fighting.
5. Fr. Bossi
6. Ordinary citizens who oppose the government, but are not armed combatants.
7. Young Filipinos who may get conscripted if the civil war gets out of hand.
8. Filipinos who fund the military via direct and indirect taxes.
9. Filipinos who are affected by the opportunity costs of the war.
I hope i did not miss anyone.
cvj,
you forgot djb. surely we can find a place for him in your list.
cvj,
frankly, i don’t believe the fighting will ever stop – the players are deeply imbroigled in political and materiel (not only material) shenanigans with their foreign supporters, backers, initiators, etc.
This government, including the men who are under executive orders, the military, the bit players in Mindanao (Christian and Muslim warlords alike), has no backbone nor the desire or lack the intellect perhaps, to solve the problem by providing the necessary political and economic solution to the Mindanao problem but it’s the only government we’ve got and whether or not, some of us here support or don’t support their blasted HSA in their perception that HSA could dismantle the MILF and other parallel armies existing in the archipelago, the likes of you, me, djb, nick, count for very little in the scheme of things or in the order of battle in Mindanao.
MBW, just thinking aloud, what if there was a Draft? One of my officemates here in Singapore asked me why we don’t have mandatory National Service (NS)in the Philippines. I told him it won’t be supported by the public since there is an actual insurgency (CPP/NPA and Muslim insurgency) taking place. He told me that if there were enough bodies, via the draft, then maybe the war would end quicker. I don’t agree with him but i find it hard to dispute his logic.
who says these marines were abducted?
they were sacrificed by their commander in chief for a greater purpose. and that purpose is to justify the HSA, and its full use, with all the horrors it contains.
Yes. I accuse the govt of staging everything so that they’ll have a reason to unleash the HSA in a very unholy way.
sorry, i dnt have any proof.
mine is just a silly accusation.
okay, go on with your niceties and theories.
It is said that Filipinos were paraded at a World Exposition as still living in trees and hunting heads.
The news of these beheadings in the first decade of the 21st century (17 already in 2007) marks us as belonging to perhaps 7th century and not having changed much since that exposition. We are like savages and join that subterranean category of bloodthirsty cutthroats. Every time one of our number is encountered in a civilized nation, he or she never know what thoughts may cross people’s heads about us, since we do not know how critically they may apprehend such news as “TEN MARINES BEHEADED IN SOUTHERN PHILIPPINES”.
I think we need the anti-terror law just to save our reputations!
What other nation in the world has had SEVENTEEN EXTRAJUDICIAL BEHEADINGS in just the last three months??
cvj,
the draft will cost money and to spend the money they don’t have, a provision will have to be inserted in the budget to make the spending of the money legal but know what, your friend has a point: tactically, the draft may very well unite this fragmented nation.
i mean budget proposal to Congress which Congress will have to deliberate on and on (watch out for Cong Danny Suarez!)
the AFP will have to explain where the particular budget item will be spent – long process but the chief executive should find some loophole in the Constitution to declare emergency and get the draft rolling.
“I think we need the anti-terror law just to save our reputations! ”
Heheheheh! Which of “our reputations” do you want to save first?
cvj, just to complete my earlier phrase “but the chief executive should find some loophole in the Constitution to declare emergency and get the draft rolling.” after all, she’s very cleverly done that in the past, not once but twice and evern many times.
btw, has anyone heard from our NSA yet re the beheading and the so-called ongoing peace process with Malaysia-advised MILF?
see? there’s alrdy one asking for it.
and bec what? that people whose jobs always entail laying their life on the line were killed in the line of battle?
how abt the rest of the citizens killed all this time?
yes. their death were even worser than these marines.
know why? they didn’t even have arms in the 1st place to defend themselves. these marines went into the jungle knowing all the dangers and knowing what it entails.
im not belittling their death or spitting on their honor.
im belittling this govt and spitting on its stupidty.
and for others to fall in with theirs…
cry out for the HSA to take effect bec of the marines deaths? tell me DJB, will the HSA prevent the govt from sending our troops in no-mans-lands and war torn areas?
funny, you were only aghast at extrajudicial killings by beheadings…
be more aghast at the number of those gunned down by motorcycle riding assasins.
‘Extrajudicial beheadings’ – nice rhetorical touch DJB.
I didn’t see any concrete suggestion/s in this thread on how to end the Muslim insurgency (or the NPA). Anybody?
Devilsadvc8,
Yep! You’re right. Murder comes in many forms and not only by beheading. The HSA ain’t gonna solve or stop murders but when this government starts using the laws that are already in place and are operational correctly – NO ONE BUT NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW kind of, then maybe we will see the beginning of the end to mass murders.
Instead of abducting and killing militants and human rights activists, the issue of parallel armies that are hugely armed, capable of bringing down the Philippine Republic or dismantling it should be the first worry of the Philippine Army/AFP and this Gloria Arroyo-led government because militant farmers, human rights activists, outspoken priests and other individuals cannot REALISTICALLY, MATERIALLY bring the Philippine Republic down but its parallel armies definitely can even as we speak, as when they slaughter squads of marines!
Jon,
Then you missed my comments – at least, that of my comment on the destruction of the MILF.
Jon, from the last two threads, the suggestions raised so far are:
1. granting independence to Mindanao.
2. a mandatory draft of young adults into the armed forces.
Someone has also been aggressively hawking the ‘HSA’ (using flag waving, poetry and appeal to amor propio) but i think it’s too much of a hard sell.
cvj,
with due respect, why discriminate against the drafting of not so young adults into the armed forces? i’m pretty certain, djb would feel slighted if he weren’t drafted to fight ‘em MILF ‘freedom fighters’.
Here’s something that will get djb off his gong again:
International Committee-DEFEND
12 June 2007
EUROPEAN COURT ANNULS TERRORIST LISTING
OF PROF. JOSE MARIA SISON IN LANDMARK DECISION
In its judgment issued in Luxembourg yesterday, in Case T-47/03 of Jose Maria Sison versus Council of the European Union, the European Court of First Instance (ECFI) in Luxembourg annulled the Council of the European Union (EU) decision blacklisting Prof. Sison as a “terroristâ€Â.
The ECFI ruled that the Council of the EU violated the rights of Prof. Sison to defense, the obligation to state reasons and the right to effective judicial protection. There had never been any competent judicial authority calling him to a criminal investigation or any court hearing regarding any terrorist act.
The ECFI also ordered the Council of the EU to bear the costs of the litigation incurred by Prof. Sison and the National Democratic Front of the Philippines (NDFP) which acted as an intervener in his favor.
The judgment of the ECFI directly covers the Council Decision 2006/379/EC of 29 May 2006 and is applicable to the Council Decision dated 29 June 2007 because this decision has exactly the same infirmities and is also violative of the rights of Prof. Sison.
The ECFI judgment does not give compensation to Prof. Sison for the termination of his social benefits (living allowance, health insurance, old age pension) and for moral and material damages but it paves the way for him to claim these in The Netherlands or in further litigation at the European level.
The judgment was penned by Judge J. Pirrung, President of the Second Chamber of the ECFI. The other members of the panel of judges were N. J. Forwood (Rapporteur) and S. Papasavvas.
International Committee-DEFEND
12 June 2007
EUROPEAN COURT ANNULS TERRORIST LISTING
OF PROF. JOSE MARIA SISON IN LANDMARK DECISION
In its judgment issued in Luxembourg yesterday, in Case T-47/03 of Jose Maria Sison versus Council of the European Union, the European Court of First Instance (ECFI) in Luxembourg annulled the Council of the European Union (EU) decision blacklisting Prof. Sison as a “terroristâ€Â.
The ECFI ruled that the Council of the EU violated the rights of Prof. Sison to defense, the obligation to state reasons and the right to effective judicial protection. There had never been any competent judicial authority calling him to a criminal investigation or any court hearing regarding any terrorist act.
The ECFI also ordered the Council of the EU to bear the costs of the litigation incurred by Prof. Sison and the National Democratic Front of the Philippines (NDFP) which acted as an intervener in his favor.
The judgment of the ECFI directly covers the Council Decision 2006/379/EC of 29 May 2006 and is applicable to the Council Decision dated 29 June 2007 because this decision has exactly the same infirmities and is also violative of the rights of Prof. Sison.
The ECFI judgment does not give compensation to Prof. Sison for the termination of his social benefits (living allowance, health insurance, old age pension) and for moral and material damages but it paves the way for him to claim these in The Netherlands or in further litigation at the European level.
The judgment was penned by Judge J. Pirrung, President of the Second Chamber of the ECFI. The other members of the panel of judges were N. J. Forwood (Rapporteur) and S. Papasavvas.
Prof. Sison was represented by a high-powered international team of human rights lawyers, headed by Jan Fermon (Belgium) and including Hans Schultz (Germany), Antoine Comte (France), Dundar Gurses (The Netherlands), Thomas Olsson (Sweden), Mathieu Beys (Belgium) and Atty. Romeo Capulong (Philippines). The NDFP was represented by its long-time Dutch lawyer Bernard Tomlow.
Jon, this is kind of long, so jz kindly follow the link…
http://forums.mukamo.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=17506&view=findpost&p=1058085
http://forums.mukamo.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=17506&view=findpost&p=1062042
CRIMINALIZATION of terrorist acts and terrorist conspiracies actually paves the way for a nonmilitary solution to both insurgencies.
It is a paradox some people cannot fit into their heads but must try to nonetheless.
You see, it is precisely because we uphold the right of people to believe in ideas, even strange ones like Marxism Leninism and theocracy, but cannot allow them to act on imposing these ideas on everyone else, that we seek to criminalize terrorism as a tactic to achieving those political or ideological ends.
What has happened over history is that these ideas have never had but a small base of support, yet they have survived by adopting guerilla war as a strategy not of victory but of avoiding political annihilation.
By criminalizing organized criminal activity that is being used to pursue larger ideological and political ends, we force the individuals in these movements to give up their violent and illegal means, without necessarily forcing them to give up their goals and ends.
It’s a tightrope act that the HSA must perform. And I will remind the Cassandras that GMA has only 3 years to go. Terrorism and terrorists will be a problem for a bit longer than than her, that’s for sure.
As I said, criminalization can lead to demilitarization of the solution path because now more than just the armed forces are involved. The intelligence and financial countermeasures are certainly the work of civilian professionals. Courts, lawyers, watchdogs, media and the Public are all engaged in the awesome tasks of self-defense.
Anti-terrorism is just common sense that way. The Military can’t handle it alone. You guys say that all the time. Now the HSA comes along and you complain.
I guess Liberals like having terrorism be purely the Military’s problem and not the public’s. Because then we’d have to think straight about what we really want to do to solve the problems for real.
I’m with MBW for a tougher, no-nonsense approach to the military aspect of things. But also the intelligence and nonmilitary operations.
MBW,
Here is something that will get you going. That report on Joma was just denied by the European Union on TV a few minutes ago. He is still on the EU’s terrorist list. Hahehihohu!
Oh is that so? Well, it’s not getting me going…try again.
cvj,
granting independence is not a solution.
it’ll only embolden the extremists more and ask for the whole Philippines. unless you have forgotten, Muslims consider any land which their ancestors have previously lived in, as theirs by right. and to remind you, Manila was once an Islamic city before the Spaniards came. come to think of it, so was most of the country.
and so is a mandatory draft. you would just be adding to the cycle of violence.
this war will never end unless you go directly to the source of the extremist’s/NPA’s/rebels’ strength. no ideology survives when the future generations refuses to adhere to it. (see my link above how that can be done)
i wish u could’ve watched a documentary i watched abt a tribe dying off. the young kids refuse to listen to their parent’s old ways, enticed by civilization, and by new wonders and possibilities offered by it. they left the jungle in search of a better life.
Oh, and Dean, re “The Military can’t handle it alone. You guys say that all the time. Now the HSA comes along and you complain.” I ain’t complaining. I’m indifferent to it. To me, that HSA is one simple crap of paper. It’s the backbone that’s needed to make things work to obliterate your dreaded MILF.
Devils,
Let’s set aside the ideology bit of the cause/causes of all these problems for a minute and for the sake of argument, and let’s talk of the operational bit that’s the cause of these problems, continuing existence of the parallel armies that’s making it difficult for the nation to settle down in relative peace.
1) it is primordial for any nation that’s been in rough and tumble war with its own citizens for generations to professionalize its armed forces; by professionalizing I mean, right salary, right training, respect of military traditions, right equipment, right commanders, right whatever
2) discontinue the peace talks and send those peacenik negotiators from Malaysia and Indonesia home (time to tell them you are useless, we’ll do it my way…)
3) disallow foreign troops fighting on its soil, or at least in public – don’t show them to the public – get our own troops to do the winning of hearts and minds bit of military propaganda
4) increase the size of the armed forces
5) and this is where justice must prevail – nope, I mean rule of law must prevail, punish erring military commanders and officials right away when a military operation or corruption is discovered. the military can do this on its own, no need to call on DoJ Gonzales to do it for them.
But truthfully, I don’t see those things happening today, not under Gloria or under Esperon not even if Dean’s HSA produced a dozen babies between today and tomorrow.
Key to dealing a serious blow to the MILF is rapid response fire – difficult to defeat the enemy by engaging in protracted warfire.
Your AFP isn’t a proud armed forces – give them something to be proud, treat the foot troops with decency. A regiment can survive without its officers but officers can’t without its regiment.
Ooops, but officers can’t without its regimental FOOT SOLDIERS (Msgts included!)
MBW,
i agree with what u said that the commanders are to blame for the marines’ deaths. that hit home, sending ten of them w/o back-up into extreme hostile territory…
just so u know, did they do it knowingly or unwittingly?
and here’s what’ll get your kibitzes, does the military really wanna erase these goons into oblivion or not?
remember that episode wherein trapped Abu Sayyaf were allowed to escape? i mean, they were surrounded, and yet they escaped?
if u were someone profiting heavily in all this war, would you want the carnage to stop? if u were someone whose sole existence and power comes from having this protracted war, would you wanna stop it? who would want their usefulness outlived?
why is the MILF still alive anyway? weren’t their camps overrun already? oh i forgot. those were MNLF camps! MILFs just had theirs spared by breaking away from MNLF and declaring peace w/d govt. why do they still have weapons?
gagnamit! Lord of War is so totally cool…
Devils,
Re just so u know, did they do it knowingly or unwittingly?
Know what? I think it’s the militics or intra-service politics or intra-service snaffu that could be partly responsible.
The back up support that the Marines (Phil Navy needed at that time or while the carnage was going on needs approval from central command: SOCOM or SOCOM is under an Army commander. If your Naval Task Force commander is the scared type, not wanting to bypass cencom, then he won’t send in or call for support or if he did and was asked:
Where are they? Roger! Don’t know… etc.
The guy at cencom post must have said, well, give me the bloody coordinates – can’t very well send in the only chopper i’ve got here that i need to return to manila without proper coordinates and left it at that then returned to manila.
your poor naval task force commander doesn’t have equipment and his air force equivalent wouldn’t send in anything without authorization from cencom so he’s left stranded.
what he should have done is asked HPN to intervene with higher hq – woken up the goddamn foic if necessary but heck, in your AFP today, few have the balls to do that.
Devils, i agree with you 100%. I’m sorry if i seemed to endorse those ideas. I just listed them for purposes of inventory.
DJB, your assertion that liberals consider terrorism a purely military problem is a red herring. For example, Manolo’s above link to my blog (thanks Manolo) is to a discussion on how we can eliminate anonymity (which is often taken advantaged of by would-be terrorists) without sacrificing privacy. Fellow [classical] liberal blogger Manila Baywatch has even volunteered concrete examples. Thinking of possible solutions to the terrorist threat is not the monopoly of neocons.
CVJ,
I bet most people who are against HSA have never read it! They rely on the opinions of others and feel no need to do so. Having convinced themselves of the herd’s firm decision to oppose it, they feel safe taking the usual moral cop out of not really thinking things through for themselves.
But in the case of the HSA I assert that passage of the law means terrorism becomes the concern of Civil Society and not just the Armed Forces.
It is a recognition that Terrorism is not just a military threat, but an inherently political and even cultural one.
As such it will involve the Public, the Media, academe, everybody else and not just the military. I think that is also why some people don’t want the law. Many people don’t want to be bothered by “police matters”, much less become involved in a “war on terror.” That is human nature. But perhaps it is unavoidable.
I claim the existence of the law expands the fight against terrorism beyond the purely military realm into areas like intel, finances, organization, even propaganda, public education and the whole thing about winning hearts and minds.
Just imagine that GMA is not the President. We would still need a Law such as HSA to conduct all these “non military aspects” of the fight against terrorism.
i went to bed last night before i saw this thread with the invitation “be the first one to comment”. i woke up this morning to see over 75 posts made overnight. i think you did strike a sensitive chord, mlq3.
i appreciate rom’s first comment. i thought the usual anti-gma cynics, which dominate this blog, couldn’t care less about atrocities when government forces are at the receiving end of depraved cruelty. our soldiers, who fight our battles and lay down their life, don’t become mere inanimate spare parts of a machinery just because they don military uniforms and carry arms to protect society from its enemies. they are still flesh and blood human beings, with parents, spouses, children and other loved ones, not to mention dreams that would never be fulfilled and hopes that are ended with finality. true, they get a few hundreds of pesos for what they do but do they deserve to be ignored when they die with their boots on?
where are those who, in this blog, hastily hailed the likes of dimasingsing (is that his name?) from maguindanao as a “hero”? what about those who beat their breasts in ostentatious display of outrage over so-called “extra-judicial” killings of activists cum communists, and alleged corrupt “envelopmental” journalists – without even being certain that the alleged killers were government agents?
yes, manolo, you hit a very soft spot in the conscience of many a commenter in this blog. some are obviously defensive, others are castigating the “stupidity” of the command (a la raul when he made a comment about julia campbell’s “carelessness”), while others, like rom and djb, are analyzing the reasons for the apparent lukewarm reaction. the big shame, however, is, we were engrossed in re-hashing the debate over the sins of estrada, and the brouhaha in the senate over selecting the new senate president, while the fiendish outrage was being inflicted upon our soldiers, some of whom were probably still alive at the moment.
cvj,
As a [classical] liberal, what in your opinion does “the terrorist threat” consist of, in practical and concrete terms? Would you classify what just happened in Basilan to be a terrorist incident if the beheadings turn out to be true? (I mean as opposed to the legitimate beheadings that happen in Jedda all the time, for example.)
The very neat lines some of us want to draw among the Abu Sayyaf, MILF and ordinary criminals are blurred in the hinterlands of Mindanao. What blurs these lines are money and family ties.
For instance, some pundits and political observers are sometimes surprised why the number of Abu Sayyaf fighters suddenly balloons when military intelligence estimates say that their number are decreasing. Some are quick to conclude that the military is sugarcoating its intelligence.
What we have in Mindanao are ordinary villagers who sideline as MILF Lost Command or Abu Sayyaf fighters if there is money to be made. We can readily see this with the abduction of Fr. Bossi. Suddenly, the ASG is not operating in small groups to avoid detection but in bigger groups because ransom money is almost at hand. It is Sipadan and Dos Palmas all over again. Once money is gained, they go back to being villagers.
Some military commanders have successfully prevented ambushes against their troops by gathering the village leaders and elders and telling them the howitzers will not spare their respective villages if soldiers get whacked within the vicinity of the villages. Ruthless but effective in the short term. However, it bites them in the end because it merely stokes the long-standing prejudices that have been the root cause of this little war.
Going back to the MILF, their claim to the ambush was merely to preempt charges that they do not have control over their supposed fighters. In fact, they really have no operational command over these fighters who are answerable to their respective warlords. These warlords, on the other hand, give lip service to the MILF leadership because they gain from the various concessions the government gives to the MILF. But if their is money to be made, they can can drop the MILF insignias and become instant ASG fighters. Clever, no?
As long as someone profits from war, peace cannot be attained. The siege of Lamitan showed how officers can manipulate a situation to the detriment of the entire operation. Lamitan hero Guinolbay is a living testimony that money really talks in the military. The AFP leadership is the last to wish for peace, mawawalan sila ng kickback.
Look at the big mansions retired generals own. The lowly foot soldier has to resort to squatting just to have a home.
ben,
of course there are those who are anti-gma, who are also anti-afp, and ultimately, anti the very idea of liberal, democratic political system such as we have. their objectives makes it difficult, at times, to stand up for a better republic. after all, if your enemy has an enemy, and your enemy, in your mind, is turning the country to the right, and the other enemy is turning the country to left, where does anyone in the middle stand? my view is,there are certain tools and policies that unwisely used, can turn a democracy into a rightist quasidictatorship; but pointing out those dangers leads you to snading side by side with left which, should they ever win, will eliminate the center with every much zeal and energy as they will the right.
i don’t think we should regret threshing out other problems. but the massacre serves as a reminder that there is a war going on, and that unless your ultimate objective is to destroy the republic and eliminate the afp, then this is a time whenpeople should come together to work through the problem.
to my mind it would:
1. an aggressive saturation drive in the area of conflict
2. a concurrent postmortem to figure out what went wrong
3. greater coordination and assitance from our allies as to what the next step should be
4. civilian leadership explaining to the public what went wrong, how it can be avoided, and a more cohesive and easy to understand set of briefings for the public and for provincial governments.
5. involving the muslim community who hold spiritual authority over muslim fighters, in coming up with teachings to remind the fighters that they are committing what is tantamount to war crimes.
6. local governments telling their officials what to watch out for; and briefings, through ads, etc. for the public to look for anything suspicious, and where to report it (this was how the london car bombings were foiled; no intelligence, just a vigilant public that noticed suspicious things).
You wonder why there was silence on the news about the Marines who were killed in action in Mindanao? This shows the insensitivity of a great segment of the population towards the military. It is sad that people do not show their concerns to the Filipino soldiers despite the great sacrifices they do.
So many of us including the media are quick to condemn when we see our soldiers’ mistakes, but did we give them praises when they do good, when they die fighting the insurgents for so many years (since 1970’s)?
Most of us play double standards, we only see what pleases us which in the end show our real colors.
Fear makes men do terrible things. And fear mongering is a terrible thing to do to man.
Dean said the attack could have been prevented if we had an anti-terror law because the military would have been able to bug cell phone messages etc.
Our side cannot gather intelligence without an anti-terror law?
A parallel army without the help of American and Australian technology could do it and was able to ambush our troops.
What is the anti-terror law, some kind of brain pill ?
Are those fucking idiot commanders playing golf in Camp Aguinaldo going to become tactical and strategic geniuses because of an anti-terror law?
Adopting the rationale for the anti-terror law serves to:
(1). legitimize Bush’s insane war; and (2). allow Gloria to stifle dissent. It won’t do anything more than that.
Let’s fight bandits the good old fashioned way. It worked against Kamlon, Nur Misuari, and against the MILF and Camp Abubakar.
Good intelligence on the ground, just like what those bandits used against the marine convoy, will go a lot further than the Deanie’s futile law.
As to solving the muslim insurgency…the problem is not in Manila. The problem is in Mindnao itself. It’s those warlord political dynasties in Mindanao who have stolen money meant for development and who have kept their constituents under their heel since time immemorial. Get rid of those warlords and you will democratize Mindanao and the MNLF/MILF/ASG won’t have a leg to stand on.
mlq3:with the exception of the saturation drive (which most of your commenters would no doubt object to), aren’t the rest of the items on your list being done?
as for civilian leadership explaining … i really don’t see how any headway can be gained by that. too many people refuse, nowadays, to listen (not that i blame them).
i really do hope people come together to resolve this whole gruesomeness. otherwise,those poor boys will really have died for nothing.
Anti-Terrorism Law or Human Security Act if implemented in accordance to its intentions, is just one tool to fight terrorism. Now again I will give my country as the basis, since I’ve been living here most of my life and very familiar with our own Anti-Terrorism Law, which was enacted and became in force in October of 2001 immediately following 9-11. It was hurriedly drafted and enacted that recent challenges by some of its victims found a few defects on it, but overall it was a good law.
To make everyone aware, next to the U.S.A., Canada has more Terrorist groups or potential for terrorists than any other country. The most important tool for fighting Terrorism is Intelligence Gathering. Where potentials and threats of terrorism are detected and disrupted before they materialized. Of course we have the absence of Insurgency and Rebellion that in most cases have resorted or switch to Terrorism as their new Techniques and Strategies for their ends.
I would for a moment suggest to examine the law, without considering who is in the administration or power.
*Will the law give more poser to the government in fighting terrorism?
*Will it complement good Intelligence, military and civilian to disrupt or prevent potential threats or stop the threat before they materialized?
*Are the safeguards in accordance with the Constitutions enough to guarantee the basic rights of individuals concerned as guaranteed?
Six years had passed since we have our Anti terrorism law in forced now. At first, critiques and opponents of the law, criticized the Liberal Government of PM Chretien of Dancing with the Neocons of George W, while the supporters where also complaining the Law didn’t go Far enough, but all agreed that it is indeed a very good law, since we didn’t experience the pains and sufferings that terrorists and terrorism had caused in some other countries. And we keep our fingers crossed that the men and women of our Civil and Military intelligence will be forever guided by their adherence to our Anti-Terrorists Act and good intelligence works..
And also hope that and when the Law comes into force in the Philippines that it will be used as Intended, To fight Terrorism and Terrorists and No other…
Mlq3,
I’ve just read pronouncement of Ed Ermita about not doing anything drastic that would jeopardize the peace process.
In my book, he is wrong to say that – it shows government’s hand, weak. He must admit that that the OIC-Malaysia led/chaired peace process with the MILF failed with the beheading of 10 marines and the death of 4 others.
If ever this government believes, no matter how minute this belief is, that the peace-process is not being served by the presence of our next door neighbour down south, our government must come forward and say it, must send the Malaysian peacenik panel back home, pure and simple.
Vic,
You’d be happy to know that UK govt peace process talks with the IRA (Irish Republican Army which counted only 800 members) moved forward with the help of Canada who sent a Canadian general oversee the surrender of weapons in 1996, America wasn’t called in because some American nationals and groups had been involved in the arms and money supply to the northern Irish terrorist IRA.
Malaysia is too involved down south including in our own territory to make them credible mediators in the so-called peace talks. They gotta be kicked out – time to stop yakitayakyaking.
Mlq3,
I go for the saturation drive! As I said, time to stop yakyakitayakiting.
UPn student asked me this question back in March and i told him that i think the defining feature that makes [for] an act of terrorism is disregard for collateral damage, i.e. the death of innocents.
The above definition has the advantage of covering both acts of rebel and bandit groups as well as the agents of State.
Also, a bit further back in Manolo’s November 5, 2005 blog entry (‘First Blood’), i acknowledged that the threat of terrorism (as a tactic) is real and that there is a clear need to eliminate the risk of a small group whatever their motivations to disrupt the lives of the general population. I said back then that , in this matter, there are practical issues that need to be sorted out. If i’m not mistaken, that’s also the first time i brought up the need to separate privacy from anonymity.
(Just a minor clarification, i believe MBW is the ‘classical’ (i.e. 19th century) liberal aka conservative, while i’m the liberal in the modern usage of the word. Anna, correct me if i’m wrong.)
If they were beheaded after death, i would classify it as an atrocity and a barbaric act which is probably part of their psy-war. If they were beheaded as prisoners of war, then it’s an act of terrorism as well as a war crime.
This is when I believe there should be a naval blockade – not the one they put up a few months ago around Sulu for no apparent reason save that there were ongoing balikatan exercises, etc.
The government watns to show it means business? Now is the time to show it – don’t allow the MILF to behead 10 more soldiers before doing it.
Cvj,
I think your definition is quite accurate! I could say I fall in the classical liberal category.
The Duke of Wellington was one!
The Duke of Wellington was a typical clasical liberal (never mind his century) – he would talk to his enemies through mediators while preparing for battle and if he couldn’t get them to sue for peace, he attacked but made sure unarmed civilian population were out of the way or as best as he could get them out of the way.
His motto was boy scout motto: BE PREPARED
Manila Bay Watch,
I also read somewhere, that our government offered to get involve in the MILF-Government Peace Process by helping In Organizing Good Governance, if ever the two sides come to term. I think we are in better position for we don’t have any baggage or chips on our shoulders. and also this morning the Defense Chief is Contemplating of changing the role of Forces in Afghanistan as Trainers to the Afghan Forces instead of Fighting role. That is a good first step for our complete withdrawal after our committment expires in 2009. And we will just stick to peacekeeping after that, which we are very good at…
Allow me to but in cvj and answer djb’s question as if he asked it of me:
Would you classify what just happened in Basilan to be a terrorist incident if the beheadings turn out to be true? – DJB
NO! I would consider it an act of war.
Vic,
I was gonna suggest the same thing – ask Canada to chair the peace talks if peace talks there should be – precisely for the same reason, Canada has no chip on its shoulders re Mindanao problem.
Vic,
I would welcome anything from Canada, I am a great supporter of their NATO initiatives in Afghanistan. Made friends among their delegation during a NATO-sponsored meet in Ankara that ended 1st July.
vic, not that there is anything wrong with it, but i’m having a little problem when you refer to “our”, “ours”, we, and us, in your comments. i think you are a canadian naturalized citizen, but with your seeming keen interest in philippine affairs, i kind of wonder sometimes if you are speaking from an outsider’s perspective or as a “former” filipino who just want to point out the superiority and wisdom of your adopted country’s ways and policies. in any event, if it’s beneficial, i think there’s nothing wrong in copying or utilizing it. i’m not sure about the others but i think we, filipinos, need all the help, we can get.
Ben,
I think it was unfair for you to criticize those who “castigated” the stupidity of those who were in command after what happened in the ambush and paint us in the corner with those who demonize the armed forces because of anti-gma sentiments. You’re painting in too broad a stroke. I thought you were better than that. And the comparison to “raul” took the cake.
I, for one, think that it is just one of the things that need to be objectively analyzed so that lives of our soldiers are not sacrificed needlessly. I don’t think I am devaluing the lives lost by trying to point out errors and lapses that could have been avoided and saved their lives. At least, future lives would be saved by more prudent and decisive command and control.
I don’t need to shout to the high heavens to damn the Abu Sayyaf or the MILF’s lost commands. They’re already demons in my book. Nor would I use the soldiers’ deaths to push for a law that couldn’t have saved them. And for the argument that they could have been saved if the communication lines were being monitored, the military has been using the technology a long time ago. They weren’t just using it against the right people (Yes, DJB. The military has been using everything that your precious HSA provides even before the law was crafted. And you better make up your mind whether to call the HSA a stupid law or the savior against terrorism. Consistency seems to be not one of your strongest suits).
“As long as someone profits from war, peace cannot be attained. The siege of Lamitan showed how officers can manipulate a situation to the detriment of the entire operation. Lamitan hero Guinolbay is a living testimony that money really talks in the military. The AFP leadership is the last to wish for peace, mawawalan sila ng kickback.”
Yes. Reminds you of the Bushes and Lockheed Martin huh? Whenever profit goes down bec the world is getting relatively peaceful, these guys instigate wars to up demand considerably to their side.
Anyone ever consider the idea that perhaps these events (Fr. Bossi’s abduction, the marines’ beheadings) were orchestrated by people agst the peace process currently going on?
jaxius, i tried to re-read my entire 10:51 pm post in search of anything that sounds like an opinionated criticism of the varied reactions of commenters here on the subject. i found none other than the use of the words “castigated” and the comparison to “raul” about which you are complaining about. what i stated as “reactions” are factual, not conjectures. if you disagree with that, show me why.
i did lament the fact that, as rom first observed, there was a seeming disinterest on the part of the “usual suspects” with regard to the atrocities apparently because the victims were men in uniform, and that while some were quick to anoint a suspicious character a “hero”, they were silent as to the truly heroic acts of the soldiers.
i do agree with you that this matter is deadly serious for our country and has to be “objectively analyzed” and see where we have gone wrong. after that, we have to employ real and effective solutions to address the problem. but first we have to get rid of the divisive, offensive and adversarial mindset, both in words and in deed, before we can even begin to do the right thing.
to save the abducted priest, into VERY HOSTILE and unfriendly territory, the military decides to send 10 marines to do the job. (im not sure if there were only ten)
to do community work and anti-left propaganda, the military decides to send battalions into metro manila and elsewhere.
this, kinda shows how AFP generals think. bec Gloria and her minions are busy diverting military personell in “other” crusades, the areas really in need of military presence, are left unattended until events like this happen. upon which GMA will agn LIP her way into magnanimity, as if her words still mean anything but just that…
i meant FROM a very hostile..not INTO
devilsadvc8:it’s really not that hard to understand. a small force, going into territory that, while traditionally hostile, holds no discernable or immediate threat, would be a better choice than a battalion. nothing in the reports seems to indicate that these boys or their commanders knew they were going into battle. on the other hand, community work means you have to cover a lot of territory. a large contingent would therefore be better able to do the work more efficiently since the work would be spread out.
and i hope, devil, that you are not demeaning or ridiculing the afp’s community work which, according to media accounts, is well-received and appreciated by its beneficiaries. anything to discredit government’s efforts, huh devil? you really deserves your name. what a fit!
bencard,
just for everyone information, Canada has only one Class of Citizenship, however it is acquired. that anyone, unlike in some other countries, U.S. for one that a naturalized citizen can not hold specific office like the Presidency and some others. and if you notice we don’t use hyphen like fil-can or chin-can.
and also we have a choice to have as many citizenship’s and as a natural Pilipino born, I still maintain the same assumption that once you are a citizen of a country, you remain a citizen, unless renounced, but technically I was stripped of the Philippines citizenzhip the day I pledged the oath of Canadian citizenship some thirty years ago.
also I have most of my family relatives
in the Philippines and it is always our wish that they will see the day that they will have a governance, that they can be proud of and by the way, quite a lot of our fellow Pilipinos asked me to impart some observation of our system here, especially the electoral process including one working with the Comelec hoping that it will somehow help him convince his bosses in the commission that transparency in electoral process also comes with sound quidelines and strict enforcements. but so far, i don’t see he has any effects….
Just read this in GMA news:
Arroyo defied on MILF hunt as Esperon holds punches
07/12/2007 | 05:49 PM
Contrary to the presidential directive to go after the Moro Islamic Liberation Front following Tuesday’s bloody clash, Armed Forces chief Gen. Hermogenes Esperon Jr opted Thursday to exercise restraint in its ongoing offensive against the separatist rebels.
Esperon said he is holding their punches because “we have peace process that is ongoing” and an investigation into the bloody encounter is underway.
“With the death of 14, 10 of whom are beheaded, there is a natural tendency to be angered by the dastardly act but our soldiers are keeping their cool, their senses, keeping in mind that this is not all about just getting back at the perpetrators,” said Esperon.
President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo earlier Thursday ordered the military to “hunt down” those who killed 14 Marines and beheaded 10 of them following an encounter in Tipo-Tipo town in the island-province of Basilan.
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Sanamagan! I would very much like to know what Esperon proposes to do; as the leader of the Surrender Gang, I suppose he will ask to sit down with the MILF spokesman himself and say “Bati na tayo!”
Djb,
I don’t know how your HSA is gonna work when even your own chief of staff, AFP seems to have surrendered.
Gobsmacking in the extreme!
And he’s lying!
Ask any marines if they’re keeping “…their cool, their senses and keeping in mind that this is not all about just getting back at the perpetrators.” He probably is keeping his cool, etc. etc yak yak but I don’t believe for one second that the foot marine troops is not rarin to go to avenge their comrades.
Esperon reminds me of Angie Reyes in 1998 who as SOCOM commander was lambasted by General Nazareno CSAFP during a command conference because he was wanted to solve the MILF problem via an AIM patterned presentation.
Nazareno asked: 1st Division, are you ready to fight? Reply: Yes sir, to the last man, Sir!
Second division, you ready to go? Reply: Right away, Sir!
And after having made the round of all the commanders in the conference turned to Angie Reyes and said: Well, it seems you are all prepared to fight except the Commanding General SOCOM!
thanks, vic, for the information. however, i am a u.s citizens, and like others here, we refer to ourselves as “filipino-americans” or “fil-ams”. the natives, and the government, don’t care how we call ourselves. it’s just our own preference, not a mandatory requirement. nor does it denote any kind of inferiority or lower class citizenship.
i guess its “to each his own”. i guess that, regardless of all legalities, once a filipino, always a filipino.
My heartfelt condolences to the families, relatives and friends of the dead troops.
Good night folks!
MWB,
don’t believe everything you read. What Esperon probably says is the official line. If something happens, there would be nothing to tie up to the AFP because the official policy is one of level-headedness. Plausible deniability.
AFP’s intelligence units are probably picking up the usual suspects now. Namimitas na ng hinog!!!
“it’s really not that hard to understand. a small force, going into territory that, while traditionally hostile, holds no discernable or immediate threat, would be a better choice than a battalion. nothing in the reports seems to indicate that these boys or their commanders knew they were going into battle.”
territory that is hostile yet holds no discernible or immediate threat? which is it?
“on the other hand, community work means you have to cover a lot of territory. a large contingent would therefore be better able to do the work more efficiently since the work would be spread out”
right. a city is A LOT of territory while a jungle is just A LIL playground.
“and i hope, devil, that you are not demeaning or ridiculing the afp’s community work which, according to media accounts, is well-received and appreciated by its beneficiaries. anything to discredit government’s efforts, huh devil? you really deserves your name. what a fit!”
no. if only that’s all that they do. and sad no? for people to feel safe only when soldiers are around. i guess we should abolish the useless PNP then.
and i would not expect you to understand the name which im going by here in Manolo’s blog and elsewhere. anything to disparage a govt critic huh ben? going so far as to ridicule one’s name… (does my name even matter in this discussion, no matter if i deserve it? and yes, i do deserve it :p)what’s next?
ay mali. MBW pala. sori.
The Philippine government had several peace agreements in relation to the problem in Mindanao. Since then, time and again another group/organization comes out and starts another type of attrocities/offensive towards the government. The government in turn agrees to negotiate with such new group.
In the 70′s we only have MNLF under Nur Misuarri. The government enlisted so many returnees into the AFP as part of peace agreement. Next we have MILF, the Abus, what else.
Some of us says that the problem in Mindanao is a good business. I agree. What will happen to the AFP when we have a peaceful Southwestern Mindanao and other troubled areas? It is just disheartening that so many Filipino families are becoming part of the collateral damage. We have this problem more that 30 years ago.
I consider myself an “anti-gma cynicâ€Â, though not rabidly so. So, I consider the statement below unfair and a hasty generalization.
“the usual anti-gma cynics, which dominate this blog, couldn’t care less about atrocities when government forces are at the receiving end of depraved cruelty.â€Â
You are basically doing something which you chide anti-gma cynics for, i.e., shooting their mouths off without being certain. Silence may mean many things, Ben. Although, I have to give it to you, it sometimes means indifference.
From what I’ve heard from first-hand accounts from friends in the armed forces, these things are of common occurrence in Mindanao. Just last year, several soldiers were killed in an ambush and mutilated. Some of them had their penises cut-off and stuffed in their mouths. “Iniwan para tukain ng mga manok,†my friend said. Their comrades were able to recover the dead and the AFP successfully kept it from the press. This most recent ambush would probably be hidden by the AFP if not for members of the press who were with the troops.
Why keep it from the press? Terrorists delight in the fact that they inflict not only the deaths, but also a “moral victory†because of the propaganda value of such an act. To express excessive outrage only pushes our mindset where these depraved souls would want it to be, on the edge of fear and fury. So, forgive me and others of my ilk if we don’t express our outrage by tearing our clothes and putting ashes on our heads for all to see.
I have all sympathy for the AFP. If not for a twist of fate, I’d probably be one of those soldiers in Mindanao right now. So, don’t think that because some assail GMA and the AFP for abuses they commit in the name of national security, they have no love for the government and the armed forces. For some, that is the unkindest cut of all.
I think the problem with Liberals is that they like hearing themselves thinking but most of them have not found anything to devote their lives to, and don’t know what they really, really believe. Yet. When they do figure it out, that is when they become…………..conservative!
The lives of these men, or rather their deaths, will convince many Filipinos how wrong they are to tolerate evil in the name of political correctness.
But the “savage terrorists,” the decapitators, the jihadists working for Allah’s paradise, they are not the big ideological problem. It is the “sophisticated terrorists” the ones who are working for a Workers Paradise and have evolved all sorts of adaptations and survival strategies, that are the bigger problem.
The latter cannot be rooted out militarily because their presence in Philippine society is not even primarily military, but ideological, social, cultural. They are not so much in the hills as they are in Media, Academe, and the Street. Their protracted struggle has little to do with actually taking over the reins of government, which they would be unable to do, and more to do with parasitism.
They have erected and assiduously maintain a permanent protest culture and propaganda machinery that trumpets a people’s revolution that has been on the verge of victory for over forty years. Themes are eternal: imperialism, feudalism, bureaucrat capitalism, as unassailable as any religiousd cult, they have this Anti-Divine Trinity from which flows an anti-position no matter what issue or epoch. The Left have a Religion as compleat as Islam, without an Allah but just as compelling and brutal.
The Anti Terror Law is the MEME we are deploying against such formidable FOES. It is the IDEA we wish will get into a cockfight with MLMTTJMS and THEO.
Oh how mortally our Champion has been weakened by Nene Pimentel. Encumbered our Warrior with handicaps and tied one hand behind its back.
Make no mistake folks. The War on Terror is a War of the Memes.
True..very true:
“I think the problem with Liberals is that they like hearing themselves thinking but most of them have not found anything to devote their lives to, and don’t know what they really, really believe. Yet. When they do figure it out, that is when they become…………..conservative!
The lives of these men, or rather their deaths, will convince many Filipinos how wrong they are to tolerate evil in the name of political correctness.”
In this War of the Memes, the territory being contested is an archipelago of hearts and minds.
Territory is won or lost by direct occupation of the brains that contain those hearts and minds.
It is a complete mystery why certain memes thrive or even survive. Take the meme of Suicide. It is present in every human generation, yet it’s prime objective when attained, annihilates it’s strongest proponents.
This observation proves that the sheer longevity of an idea is no guarantee of its benevolence or moral legitimacy.
The Left is wedded to such a Labour already long in the tooth when I first met it in my youth.
I suppose the old saying is apt: if you arent a communist at 19 you have no heart. but if your still are a communist at 29, good God, you have no head!
Okay, okay! I give you guys and galz until 39!
“I think the problem with Liberals is that they like hearing themselves thinking but most of them have not found anything to devote their lives to, and don’t know what they really, really believe. Yet. When they do figure it out, that is when they become…………..conservative!”
“I suppose the old saying is apt: if you arent a communist at 19 you have no heart. but if your still are a communist at 29, good God, you have no head!”
Said like a true neo-con, leftist/communist roots included.
bencard,
welcome, but I don’t know what to call my youngest sister, and her husband (both mds in N.Y) since they are Pinoys, Canadians and now Americans. And truly the are just as proud Americans as they are Canadian and Pilipinos.
anyway I long made a statement that we may had left our birth country for any particular reason or reasons, but we can Never Leave being a Pilipino.. thanks…
Vic… I know that you say “…Canada has only one Class of Citizenship, however it is acquired” but my understanding is that racism is quite endemic in Canada. Case in point — Canada puts little value on credentials earned from non-Canadian universities/ colleges.
And racism is particularly strong in Western Europe. European countries do accept foreign workers/etcetera, but they are not assimilated at all into the social thread of the individual countries. I think it was CNN or Yahoo-news which mentioned that the behavior that Europeans want from the the African-, Asian- and other foreign-workers is that they come, they work, and when they are done with their contracts or nearing retirement, that they go home to their original countries.
Rom, regarding your question to me (at July 12th, 2007, 3:02 pm), the reason why i had to give that warning about ‘bum advice’ (at July 12th, 2007 2:55 pm) is because i expected that statements like the above would eventually crop up. Notice the shift in emphasis (and targets) as well as the emphasis on ideologies (‘memes’).
Wow, so many comments.
That’s the problem with you Rom. You ask a question, I answer, and you want all the world to know how witty you are. So maybe the best thing to do is to ignore people who likes to twit and outwit others. I like intelligent exchange of opinion, but not comments like “they must be trembling in their little booties by now.” Comments like these don’t add to the sum-total of knowledge; they don’t add to the clarification of issues.
manolo,
why is my comment still on moderation?
why is my comment still on moderation?
One of the quirks of MLQ3′s comment box is that it moderates comments with links in them. Did yours have a link to another site?
Even with no links, Manolo’s comment moderation software also targets a specific set of words, i think with possible commercial content. I think that’s why my comment on S*M cards (for the ph*ne) was previously moderated.
I suppose the old saying is apt: if you arent a communist at 19 you have no heart. but if your still are a communist at 29, good God, you have no head!
Okay, okay! I give you guys and galz until 39!
——————————————————
He he he so funny but so true!!!!
Anyways, this thread has gotten so long. Almost all the posted comments are really good especially that of DJB and Bencard. However Im still very confuse. Siguro tulugan ko na muna….
yes. manolo’s blog is quite good in screening spams. moderation also aims to prevent potential badware proliferators or sites that unknowingly links them, hence links are moderated.
on DJB’s previous posts:
wow. memes. i had to wiki that.
cvj, what is the “bum advice?” that the LEFT is more of a threat than TERRORISM?
it is laughable, considering terrorism’s propensity to start the next world war.
DJB:
Let us be
Set us free
From sappy poetry
14 dead on 14 sleds
Set free
Let Heroes rest
Devils, that’s right. Hitting back at the [liberal- or communist-] left when the culprits of the ambush are the Muslim rebels/bandits follows the now familiar American strategy of hitting them where they ain’t.
Sir MLQ3,
I also want to write about the MILF beheading but it’s too violent. I cannot even make a mental picture of it. Even if I soak myself with Quentin Tarantino films, the reality of this one is too hard to imagine.
By the way, Sir, I posted the answer of our Team Chiz administrator regarding Chiz’ stand on the senate presidency issue. It kind of fits Billy Esposo’s article. It’s not Chiz yet, but it’s the next best thing. Malapit siya kay Chiz at alam niya ang nangyayari sa opposition backroom.
Jowana
MOWEE,
I like “small poems” too.
Here is a favorite:
Four ducks on a pond.
A grass bank beyond.
A blue sky of Spring.
White clouds on the wing;
What a little thing
To remember for years–
To remember with tears.
cvj,
Are you a “Leftist”?
DJB, i took the ‘Political Compass’ quiz and i posted the results in my blog. On the Economic Scale, i’m more to the left (‘collective’) side while on the Socio-political scale, i’m on the libertarian side. As far as historical figures are concerned, i’m supposed to be in the vicinity of Gandhi and Mandela. As far as fellow bloggers are concerned, Abe Margallo (redsherring) and Arbet (awbholdings) is to my left while Jeg (versimillitude) is a bit to the right. Fellow commenter UPn Student is further to the right.
…but the furthest to the left/bottom (who took the test) is blogger Torn (tornandfrayed) who i think is approaching ‘V for Vendetta’ territory.
cvj,
Here is part of an editorial published today on the Basilan incident:The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) remains on the losing end of the war for hearts and minds; we find it telling that not a single resident tried to send a warning to the military convoy.
Also, the lines that divide anti-AFP forces are porous indeed: MILF, Abu Sayyaf, “lawless elements†— in certain villages the differences may not make much of a difference, or may not exist at all.
This lack of public support at the local level and the ambiguousness of the “enemy†make it difficult to root out the causes of insurgency, terrorism, even crimes of opportunity like kidnapping. All the more reason to forge a fair deal with the MILF. Those we smoke the peace pipe with have less incentive to lie in ambush, in the pouring rain.
This just shows the heartlessness of intellectuals who are also bleeding heart liberals!
How does the editorialist know that no one TRIED to send a warning message to military convoy, or that ANY resident knew of the ambush plan. Maybe they don’t own cellphones in Barangay Ginanta, Tipo tipo, Basilan. Maybe they had no load.
But it is fallacious for the editorialist to conclude that the military is losing the battle for hearts and minds from their own manufactured assumption.
This editorial is just as stupid as when Raul Gonzalez blamed Julia Campbells for getting herself killed by hiking alone in the Ifugao Rice Terraces.
Even if it were true that the military is losing the propaganda battle on the ground, it is idiotarian for the editorial to make that seem to be the proximate cause of this atrocity, rather than a cold, calculated ambush and massacre with mutilation and decapitation for dessert.
The cheek of the editorial too in blaming the incident on a “lack of public support at the local level”!
Heck, how about a lack of support at the level of the national media, who are the number one promoters of hate and enmity against the Military?
Arlyn de la Cruz, once Janjalani’s squeeze, today bylines a story in the Philippine Daily Innuendo, headlining her idol’s successor, the new Abu Sayyaf leader, a certain Yaser Igasan, VERY SPIRITUAL.
Yeah, tell that to the Marines.
But Dean, you too were once a leftist, weren’t you when you were playing activist, that’s why Marcos put you in jail?
While at that time, I was pro-Marcos all through and through, absolutely backing Marcos and military policy then to round up all those communist students and activists, shall we say, like you…
I’m inherently still anti-left when that left threatens my way of life but I do believe that the left today (not where I sit) no longer espouses the downfall of my ‘capitalist’ life although I will never adhere to the UK Labour Party with or without Tony Blair, not even the UK’s New Labour dogma nor to the French Socialist Party dogma – never!
While you, it seems, & correct me if I’m wrong, followed the traditional path just like you said, “if you arent a communist at 19 you have no heart. but if your still are a communist at 29, good God, you have no head!”
Isn’t it rather uncanny that those who were once leftist become more conservative, nay worse than the conservatives, than the traditional conservatives the moment they turned around? So, perhaps, given that, inconsistency is progress, wouldn’t you say?
Ooops, I meant “but I do believe that the left today (WHERE I SIT) no longer espouses the downfall of my ‘capitalist’ life…”
Hmmmm – says, ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation.’ so will try to re-post:
But Dean, you too were once a leftist, weren’t you when you were playing activist, that’s why Marcos put you in jail?
While at that time, I was pro-Marcos all through and through, absolutely backing Marcos and military policy then to round up all those communist students and activists, shall we say, like you…
I’m inherently still anti-left when that left threatens my way of life but I do believe that the left today (not where I sit) no longer espouses the downfall of my ‘capitalist’ life although I will never adhere to the UK Labour Party with or without Tony Blair, not even the UK’s New Labour dogma nor to the French Socialist Party dogma – never!
While you, it seems, & correct me if I’m wrong, followed the traditional path just like you said, “if you arent a communist at 19 you have no heart. but if your still are a communist at 29, good God, you have no head!â€Â
Isn’t it rather uncanny that those who were once leftist become more conservative, nay worse than the conservatives, than the traditional conservatives the moment they turned around? So, perhaps, given that, inconsistency is progress, wouldn’t you say?
Re: Arlyn de la Cruz, once Janjalani’s squeeze,
I think the poor girl is still suffering from the Stockholm syndrome even after many years of her capture, kidnapping by the Abu group. (Or was she reallly kidnapped?)
Arrrrgh – my comment still awaiting moderation.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Hmmmm – says, ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation.’ so will try to re-post:
But Dean, you too were once a leftist, weren’t you when you were playing activist, that’s why Marcos put you in jail?
While at that time, I was pro-Marcos all through and through, absolutely backing Marcos and military policy then to round up all those communist students and activists, shall we say, like you…
I’m inherently still anti-left when that left threatens my way of life but I do believe that the left today (not where I sit) no longer espouses the downfall of my ‘capitalist’ life although I will never adhere to the UK Labour Party with or without Tony Blair, not even the UK’s New Labour dogma nor to the French Socialist Party dogma – never!
While you, it seems, & correct me if I’m wrong, followed the traditional path just like you said, “if you arent a communist at 19 you have no heart. but if your still are a communist at 29, good God, you have no head!â€Â
Isn’t it rather uncanny that those who were once leftist become more conservative, nay worse than the conservatives, than the traditional conservatives the moment they turned around? So, perhaps, given that, inconsistency is progress, wouldn’t you say?
cvj,
Re Even with no links, Manolo’s comment moderation software also targets a specific set of words, i think with possible commercial content. I think that’s why my comment on S*M cards (for the ph*ne) was previously moderated.
But my comments re DjB’s comments do not have any commercial contents unless of course, branding Djb a leftist as once is commercial content, yet these comments are still moderated (my oooops comment passed though.)
Hmmm – maybe I should delete “capitalist” in my comment…
See what I mean? Well, will try again…
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Arrrrgh – my comment still awaiting moderation.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Hmmmm – says, ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation.’ so will try to re-post:
But Dean, you too were once a leftist, weren’t you when you were playing activist, that’s why Marcos put you in jail?
While at that time, I was pro-Marcos all through and through, absolutely backing Marcos and military policy then to round up all those communist students and activists, shall we say, like you…
I’m inherently still anti-left when that left threatens my way of life but I do believe that the left today (not where I sit) no longer espouses the downfall of my ‘capi£££££talist’ life although I will never adhere to the UK labour party with or without Tony Blair, not even the UK’s new labour dogma nor to the french socialist party dogma – never!
While you, it seems, & correct me if I’m wrong, followed the traditional path just like you said, “if you arent a communist at 19 you have no heart. but if your still are a communist at 29, good God, you have no head!â€Â
Isn’t it rather uncanny that those who were once leftist become more conservative, nay, “worse” than the conservatives, than the traditional conservatives the moment they turned around? So, perhaps, given that, inconsistency is progress, wouldn’t you say?
(Djb seems to be a living proof!)
In all the comments here, Manuel Bunecamino’s comments stand out – well reasoned, his recommendations are doable and are pragmatic. As I’ve said, it’s the backbone that’s needed to solve the Mindanao problem.
The Muslim, Christian, Chinese warlords in Mindanao ought to be disbanded – these bandits will use Dean’s HSA to wipe their asses with.
manuelbuencamino :
Fear makes men do terrible things. And fear mongering is a terrible thing to do to man.
Dean said the attack could have been prevented if we had an anti-terror law because the military would have been able to bug cell phone messages etc.
Our side cannot gather intelligence without an anti-terror law?
A parallel army without the help of American and Australian technology could do it and was able to ambush our troops.
What is the anti-terror law, some kind of brain pill ?
Are those fucking idiot commanders playing golf in Camp Aguinaldo going to become tactical and strategic geniuses because of an anti-terror law?
Adopting the rationale for the anti-terror law serves to:
(1). legitimize Bush’s insane war; and (2). allow Gloria to stifle dissent. It won’t do anything more than that.
Let’s fight bandits the good old fashioned way. It worked against Kamlon, Nur Misuari, and against the MILF and Camp Abubakar.
Good intelligence on the ground, just like what those bandits used against the marine convoy, will go a lot further than the Deanie’s futile law.
As to solving the muslim insurgency…the problem is not in Manila. The problem is in Mindnao itself. It’s those warlord political dynasties in Mindanao who have stolen money meant for development and who have kept their constituents under their heel since time immemorial. Get rid of those warlords and you will democratize Mindanao and the MNLF/MILF/ASG won’t have a leg to stand on.
DJB, maybe you’ll get less worked up if you re-read the opening lines of that PDI editorial that you called ‘heartless’:
The paragraphs you cite in your comment are preceded by three observations which laid the predicate for their conclusions. You can dispute the editorial’s conclusions and predicate but the conclusion itself, i.e. the military is losing the battle of hearts and minds, is not necessarily heartless. After all, it could be the same conclusion the military could reach after they conduct their own investigation. Better the cold hard truth than happy illusions. As a scientist yourself, wouldn’t you agree?
MBW, i’ve long accepted that for all practical purposes, this blog has two owners, mlq3 himself and spam karma (the moderation software). Unfortunately, the latter is sometimes quirky and we have no choice but to defer to its wisdom.
Thanks for the explanation, cvj.
cvj,
Leaving aside “heartless” the editorial admits that the ambush was in pursuit of “separatism”. That makes it a terrorist act.
And how in the world one is to respond with both an “iron fist” and an “open mind” escapes me.
Why? Is the gov’t being “closed minded” somehow? And what does the editorial mean by saying the govt must push peace negotiations with Moro separatists to a fair conclusion? Why is the govt being unfair in these talks?
And if their conclusion is that we are losing hearts and minds, isn’t that exactly like saying Julie Campbell was killed because the people of the Cordillera hate US imperialism.
Then the same paper publishes a headline claiming that Yaser Igasan, the new leader of the Abu Sayyaf is “very spiritual”.
Why do I get the feeling that the paper supports the Abu Sayyaf even if it agrees to call them savages?
UPn,
I understood completely about the dilemma of foreign graduates getting qualified here, I am one. I never had a chance to practice my profession here, although opportunity abound, just to keep up to their standard. I have mentioned before, that the demands for foreign trained professionals dependent upon the need of the country and the requirements needed since all professions here are self regulated. During the years when nursing was badly needed my two sisters needed to pass only the French language test and the other one Nothing.
As I mentioned also my youngest sister who came later and her husband had to migrate after becoming Canadians (under NAFTA) to the U.S. to practice their Medical Professions. Skilled workers like Mechanics, plumbers and electrician have less problems, because they are government regulated and may need only to prove their skill. My other sister a medical Technologist has to do a year upgrading before eligible for entry to the society of Laboratory Technicians.
The only difference is we are quite at home here, because of our Multicultural society. And when we retire, we rather be here, because it’s living free, or we can still work until we decided to quit. No more compulsory retirement (for latecomers and for those who have a few to support in their home country that need to work while taking their pensions).
Re Why do I get the feeling that the paper supports the Abu Sayyaf even if it agrees to call them savages?
Dean, I have a feeling that it’s your fear (as ManuelB had written above), that’s causing you to feel that way!
And I quote (from ManuelB’s piece) “Fear makes men do terrible things. And fear mongering is a terrible thing to do to man.”
Re Dean’s reservation on the PDI (not my favourite paper so can’t accuse me of being bias, besides, haven’t read the said edito) “Why? Is the gov’t being “closed minded†somehow? And what does the editorial mean by saying the govt must push peace negotiations with Moro separatists to a fair conclusion? Why is the govt being unfair in these talks? ”
Perhaps, it’s because the paper feels that this govt has all but physically surrendered to the MILF, thus paper believes that the conclusion is being unfair (to the govt)?
Btw, just asking here, was Campbell killed by the NPAs? Is there sure proof that they did it? I thought she was killed by an individual who turned out to be schizophrenic?
cvj,
The editorial uses all the right buzz words, but it is dripping with insincerity, disingenuity and manages to blame the authorities for the tragedy. The motivation of the editorial is to embarrass the govt and excuse the terrorists.
The Philippines has SEVENTEEN decapitations to its name just this year alone. We now have a terrible distinction as the beheading capital of the world. Not even in places where they stone the women for adultery in darkest Africa and chop off robbers hands and women’s clitorises, as in the House of Saud, have they had ten of their soldiers beheaded by “bandits” and then have the biggest newspaper call for more and fairer peace negotiations with the cutthroats that did it!
Now mercifully they didn’t take video in Basilan, but in the world of horrors, nothing horrifies like for example those head choppings done by what look like teenage boys sawing off another human being’s head.
We are now automatically in the big leagues of that subterranean class of savages.
We are the Porno Stars of the Real World of Snuff films.
We are National Geographic material.
We are head-hunters, as of old.
We are savages and amoks worthy of having new calibers invented to deal with our savagery.
These are the ineluctable messages about us going out into the world.
They are not true!
And this is what I hate the most about the Abu Sayyaf.
They have convinced strangers that we are all Abu Sayyaf.
“We are National Geographic material.”
One consolation – a country being featured in the National Geographic normally is a sure way to bring in tourists (and the income!) and would surely bring mercenaries from Iraq who are on R&R or people like them who have nothing to fear of countries featurd in National Geographic.
We are all Abu Sayyaf now!
DJB, for a conservative, you sure have a penchant for deconstruction. On the incongruence between an ‘open mind’ and an ‘iron fist’, i suppose it means that hunting down the savages is fair, but we should not lose sight that a peace settlement (not a condition of permanent war) is the ultimate objective. The conclusion that we are losing hearts and minds is an empirical one. It has no implication on Julie Campbell’s murder at all, whether real or symbolic. Maybe your feeling that the paper supports the Abu Sayyaf is colored by your past association with the PDI. I’m just a reader.
No one is disagreeing with you that the decapitations are apalling to say the least. I share your disgust of the Abu Sayyaf. However, in the hierarchy of priorities, our being featured in the National Geographic takes a backseat to ensuring that the killings and collateral damage stops. Try to get past your thoughts of wounded pride and focus on those who face the real threats – the soldiers in the field, their families and the residents of Basilan (Muslim or otherwise) so you can look at the situation with a level-head.
Re Dean’s “We are all Abu Sayyaf now!”
Easy now, Dean! Friendly reminder: If you keep repeating that to yourself because you believe it, you run the risk of thinking and acting like them.
We are all savages now. Strangers who know nothing else about the Philippines, know that now, if nothing else.
We are the Beheaders of the World. Call it prejudice or distortion, but that’s the Morning News all over the planet.
You folks who are stateside, may I request YouTube postings of the inevitable Filipino jokes on Jay Leno, David Letterman the next few weeks.
You’ll see what I mean. “Level head”…hehe!
MBW: Et tu, brute!
DJB,
oh, quit all the flaming. you are not goading anyone into anything…
“We are now automatically in the big leagues of that subterranean class of savages.
We are the Porno Stars of the Real World of Snuff films.
We are National Geographic material.
We are head-hunters, as of old.
We are savages and amoks worthy of having new calibers invented to deal with our savagery.
These are the ineluctable messages about us going out into the world.”
aside from exhausting your methaporically addicted mind, do tell me this rant has pointed out something profound. i noticed you have a penchant for cheapening poetry and prose, using high words to sound, err — better.
word of advice. simpler words carry more power used in a sincere way than a dozen high falluting ones used in a — cheap manner.
Djb: Et tu, Messalina?
DJB, no need to bother the stateside folks. Youtube is accessible worldwide via the internet.
DJB, pls. disregard 11:07, my mistake.
devil,
what’s the matter? does the truth hurt? is it so implausible that we are now the victims of undeserved prejudice? we need that anti-terror law even just to protect our reputation, to prove to the world we are not necrophiliacs.
(look that one up if you dare devil!)
This blog is as loud as a combat zone. It’s not about policies. The Philippines is practically a feudalism, and the armed forces is one of the presidents most powerful vassals. They’ll want those “Moros” heads and they’ll eventually get it, whatever new policy gets signed or doesn’t get signed.
jeg:wordpress automatically sets comments with external links for moderation by the blog owner. this is an anti-spam measure.
Dean,
Sorry to disappoint you but no one cares about Pinas – even with this bad news, nothing doing to get the world to even remotely take a peep in the direction of Pinas. So save your breath!
arbet:that’s right. i asked a question: what’s the best solution (or something like that). your answer: let’s take them to task. i don’t have to be witty to see that that is as non-responsive as any answer can ever be. and i’m not being witty. i’m just taking you to task.
jaxius, the matter about the “anti-gma cynics” not giving a hoot about the beheading of ten of our young heroes (indeed they were heroes, at least in my book), did not originate from me. as i pointed out, i was voicing my concurrence with rom’s observation, but that whereas he was complaining against bloggers in general, i narrowed my subject to anti-gma bloggers that dominate this blog. still, i think you have a point about unfairly making a blanket criticism vs. ALL gma-haters in this blog on that particular subject. in any case, they know who they are, and i have absolutely no reason to believe that you are one of them.
i agree with you that we suffer our grief in different ways. many of us mourn in silence, with dry eyes and sometimes with a wan smile on our lips. yet, many others are vocal about their sadness, shedding copious tears for all the world to see. i refer again to those miserable souls who are quick to put the blame on people or groups they hate for so called “extra-judicial” killings as though all the victims were truly innocent men and women of peace. at the risk of being redundant, i also call to mind those who gushingly lionize and anoint as “heroes” individuals who, for questionable motives, “squeals” on others when the dubious information fits the applauding party’s personal or political agenda.
i salute you for your unwavering faith in our government and the afp. as a brother attorney, you, along with others in other professions and callings, are at the forefront of every effort to uphold the rule of law – and that includes constructive critique on how it is administered by our government, and of the individuals we have entrusted it to.
DJB,
what truths? that we are..
“automatically in the big leagues of that subterranean class of savages?”
sorry, but in the state of the world as it is, we don’t even rank as high as some other countries in the world. (if you only count those 17 heads…) of course, no country could ever equal the US in carnage…
“We are the Porno Stars of the Real World of Snuff films?” really? and?
“We are National Geographic material.”
in what sense?
“We are head-hunters, as of old. We are savages and amoks worthy of having new calibers invented to deal with our savagery.”
contrary to your belief, a small group of bandits beheading marines does not contitute US (Filpinos as a whole) and those things you said, are not the “ineluctable” message going into the world about us. if anything, it only sends the message that we have a great internal problem, and that the rest of our populace is anything but savages to be an enemy of them…
Why, when you think of JI do you immediately go into paroxysms of prejudice and think all Indonesians are savages? How abt Hitler? Does he goad you into uncontrollable urges to shout to the world that all Germans are barbaric? Where do you draw the line from being patriotic and just being another rabid flag waving absolutist?
Protect our reputation? And for that we need what?
Do tell me, are we like Afghanistan that we harbor the criminals who did this?
Then what is there to be defensive about our reputation? Do we not in fact fight against this kind of idealouges and idealogy?
“look that one up if you dare devil!”
sorry. but nothing in your post is worth looking up. i may have said i abhor high falluters and their words, but that doesn’t mean im illiterate or weak vocabulary wise..
ah. the memes. sarcasm does tend to be inconspicuous to those being targeted by it…
All,
Why are you not worried about the probably consequences of all of this? The military will get even. Terrorists will go for an immediate escalation of events and bomb Manila or another big city.
This is not a political situation. If you know anything about the marines, you know they’ll get even. The militant moros have done something they’re probably regretting now.
Their only bargaining point is that Italian priest. If they have him, they’ll never let him go now.
“automatically in the big leagues of that subterranean class of savages?â€Â
This doesn’t make any sense. Nor this: “We are the Porno Stars of the Real World of Snuff films?â€Â
Your words are running amok.
“We are National Geographic material.†Who isn’t?
And isn’t cultural self-flagellation so passe already? “We are head-hunters, as of old. We are savages and amoks worthy of having new calibers invented to deal with our savagery.â€Â
And who the heck cares about the world? We should take a leaf from the Americans and focus on our own lovability? So humbug this: “These are the ineluctable messages about us going out into the world.â€Â
“Why do I get the feeling that the paper supports the Abu Sayyaf even if it agrees to call them savages?”
I share the same feeling and assessment of the news – the way it was slanted and presented. I got the feeling they favor the Abu’s and MILF.Dunno why.
I hope this is not the papers’ way of contributing to nation building, or their way of pulling down the country to chaos.
The media in this country just lacks…lacks many things for ex, objective reporting, responsibility, etchics etc.
For example, news article has this:
“This lack of public support at the local level and the ambiguousness of the “enemy†make it difficult to root out the causes of insurgency, terrorism, even crimes of opportunity like kidnapping. All the more reason to forge a fair deal with the MILF. ”
What does this mean?
Bencard,
There happens to be a directline between capitulation in Baghdad in the Angelo de la Cruz case and Basilan’s beheadings this week.
So don’t be standing in the shadow of your Moral Lilliputian. You’ll only get sunburned.
n,
the prose of these people boarders on opacity. But – and I’m just making a wld guess here – I think it means “We surrender!”
djb, beheading is a centuries-old practice of these people and antedates your homespun moralization. why don’t you establish that “connection” instead of blaming the “liliputian” next to the “Moral” giant that you claim to be?
The target of all my rhetoric is this:
the SELF-LOATHING of the Filipinos.
Which blinds them even to the horrors of beheading
and paralyzes them into blaming themselves for it
and justifies the terrorist acts as the result of “root causes” or bad govt policies, of our indifference to the suffering Moros, or we quibble with each other’s English Composition, Vocabulary and Comprehension, our tastes in prose and Emily Post, pretending we don’t hear in our own heads the clear message of these events.
Baghdad has found its way to Basilan on its way to Manila.
This is just the beginning. Not even those comfy media mavens will recognize their old lifestyles from now on.
Wars are not always obvious and Peace is full of comforting legend.
BrianB,
I agree with you about the meaning of that prose.Further, I also wonder why they put in quotation marks the word: enemy, in that paragraph. I am now wondering, whether that paper read by most of us, treat the ABUs as its “enemy” in quotation marks, hahaha, or I am just paranoid.
bencard,
Rape and murder and pillage are also “centuries old practices”. My moralization towards them is also “homespun”, learnt at my mother’s knee. Why? Where did you get yours?
But GMA cannot eat her cake and have it too. Always she has acted in her own selfish interests. But Isnilon Hapilon got the go ahead for gleeful decapitation this week from GMA. they know about her penchant for paying ransom for political convenience (it all started with Dos Palmas when she ransomed billionaire Reghis Romero, with the same Isnilon Hapilon being in the merrie bande of bandits clutching Gracia Burnham–he had just helped finish off Guillermo Sobero). She blamed the SuperFerry 14 bombing on “pranksters” because she was too busy with Garci, in April 2004, to avenge 116 bombed and drowned Filipinos.
Uhmm, is this enough of a “connection” yet, bencard?
“Baghdad has found its way to Basilan on its way to Manila.”
pointing out a self-evident truth? or is it really?
everything is melodramatic with you, but none strikes a chord.
do not actuate your opinions as the feelings of others. self-loathing? you should hear yourself. rabble rousing for a misguided cause. those who value life and liberty will neither be blinded by sheer sympathy bec they think those who did the beheadings were justified by virtue of their suffering being largely ignored nor justify it themselves simply bec they think root causes or bad govt policies are to blame.
Though you are right. This is just the beginning. By the way people like you are warmongering everywhere around the world, polarization is not too far off down the road. You do not see the events crystallizing into a fearful future. The farthest that you can see is from the edge of your nose. Ignorant of the fact that reaching out to those still not swallowed by the monster that is extremism is the key to this war, and not further alienating them and pushing them into the extremists arms. Even the jihadists needs a choice freed from fate. Everyone is born human. Not Muslim, Christian, or Jew.
I once met a muslim w/o knowing she was one. It wasn’t as hard as anyone thinks to befriend one and actually be close to one. All the barriers are inside our head. It is not the people behind the idealogy we need to defeat, but the idealogy itself. all organizations continue to survive bec of a system of recruitment or replacement of old members with the new. it is within this base that we must strike. a choice is all people need to choose what is good and what is evil. we must give them that.
The kind of war that the neo-cons unleashed just stoked the fires more, and strengthened this power base.
“you cannot quash an army that fights like a ghost…”
Wars are always obvious. Only those filled with wrong notions of peace fail to see it.
Bencard,
As commander-in-chief gma has been a dismal failure. Look at the officers and men she has persecuted as mutineers: they’re still wearing their battlefield medals won in Kauswagan and Isabela against the ASG and the NPA.
But the Oakwood Mutineers should really be looked upon as Whistleblowers who were turned over to their mortal enemies in the Top Brass by the very president in which they mistakenly put their trust to set things right.
Oh, how they know, about dud ammo!
They were proven right in the case of the bagman Gen. Garcia, but here they have been courtmartialled and dishonorably discharged.
Good! That’s just the way they do it in the movies. They are civilians again and can speak the truth without permission. I want to know why they really mutinied. And so do the 11 million who voted for Trillanes. Could it really be for Erap’s sake? Or Gringo’s, or “to seize state power” that such men of studied and proven lethality, captured a floor of the Oakwood Luxury Hotel and Restaurant?
Even you won’t be such a raving fan of GMA when the truth comes out, methinks.
I want a transcript of that fateful midnight meeting between Antonio Trillanes and Gloria Macapagal Arroyo that seems to have precipitated the Oakwood Mutiny.
With that piece of the puzzle, my dear Watson, we may yet see a ten megapixel picture of Planet Lilliput. I can’t wait…
Devil,
Beware of jousting with melodrama, lest catharsis overcome you. Ideas arrive as contraband, but before you know it, you’re wearing them like designer jeans.
mr. bocobo, i hope you have something to anchor your loose imagination. you can indulge in your nether world of warped self-righteousness, but i think you are recklessly threading on dangerous minefield just to win a useless argument. i hope you are in full possession of your faculties and know the consequences of your gratuitous innuendos against the president.
you write as though you have an insider’s information on the “oakwood mutiny”. i would love to see you subpoenaed to testify at trillianes’ trial for all the world to hear what you have to say under pain of perjury. i think its time people with mouth as big as their ego be made to account for the words they spew against others, presidents or not.
DJB
no. ideas are seeds. they grow in fertile land. you cannot “wear” it unless you’re sufficiently compatible with it. it will not take root, unless your heart is ripe for it. you are molded by events and remembrances, genes and inheritance, fate and chance. these things till and plow the land that is your mind. some ideas flower more than others, others die or are supplanted bec they lacked nourishment or are uprooted by a more powerful idea taking root.
this is the center of my “meme.” to defeat ideas, you only had to deprive them of nourishment, or introduce in the land a much more powerful idea to supplant the one you’re aiming to defeat.
the war on terror then, is definitely being waged on the wrong front.
wear them? what a silly way of portraying them.
and have no worry abt me succumbing to catharsis. i already had. this is me arising from it. there is a despair larger than life which swallowed me before. suffice to say, that made me see things in a clearer way.
bencard,
Keep your panties on. I am only inferring from Trillanes’ own testimony before the SENATE Select Committee investigating the Oakwood Mutiny in July and August, 2004, The transcripts are in the public domain. You will hear these charges from him as a senator of the realm, not a blogger in a comment thread.
Your problem is you don’t appreciate the difference between a public office and its mere tenant. which is why you think oakwood was gringo style putsch. it wasn’t. it was a whistleblowers panic.
so, everything that trillianes say is gospel truth for you, huh, bocobo? what do you expect from a guy accused of treachery? the problem with you is that you believe everything you hear that fits your own purpose and foist it on others. what arrogance! i’ll keep my “panties” on if you cease using your wife’s skirt.
and , bocobo, you think trillianes’ defensive allegations, untested under the crucible of evidentiary rules, became indubitable truth once he managed to become a senator? to paraphrase lincoln, one hundred million angels swearing to the truth of a false statement will not make it true.
Bencard, ang tapang mo naman! Si DJB ay si DJB, pero ikaw, sino si bencard? A poster without a true identity! Probaby a paid GMA supporter or one of luli’s tuta. Nasa US pa! He he, ang tapang ni bencard.
wala sa tapang yan, realista, nasa katuwiran. dito sa lugar namin walang dean, dean kung wala sa lugar. wala ring bully o mayaman, o may katungkulan sa gobyerno! e bakit kayo, ang ta-tapang ninyong magmura sa presidente. sino ba kayo?
Bencard,
It’s not so much that I “believe” Trillanes as much as the theory fits the facts much better, seems more natural, is a lot more logical and natural explanation of all the things that happened and which came to light. It passes the test of Occam’s Razor. The theory feels right. Of course it is only a theory, though by your reaction, which was similar to mine at first, it does seem to make you wonder too…doesn’t it? The Oakwood Mutineers were really whistleblowers that Gloria betrayed to the Top Brass.
Let that stand as our hypothesis, shall we, and allow the Future to test it?
BTW, let no one have any illusions that they can have ANONYMITY on the World Wide Web. Everything you say or post here is “on the record”.
The Web is Man and Machine. The Men are smarter than the Machines, yet the Machines are smarter than the programmers, being driven by a logic and necessity that is there for unrelated reasons having to do with the solid state chemistry of silicon and its impurities.
Being all connected, merely means the addresses of all participants are known.
But it is the connection that is important, for what happens here is not litigation, but osmosis.
the Maguindanao senator has been proclaimed. if his mentor gloria was garcified in 2004, the last to be named senator this year was bedolized (also possibly, ampatuanized).
now, NOT doubting an obvert cheating plainly because an individual is the beneficiary of that fraud would probably be coined ZUBURY (pronounced zu–ber–E).
migz ZUBURIED, for he buried the cheating for the sake of his winning…
correction: …NOT doubting that there was an overt cheating…
mr. bocobo, you are presenting it as a conclusion of fact, not mere hypothesis. i don’t care how it looks to you. obviously, i see it differently. so don’t talk like you have a handle on the “truth” and then back down and call it what it really is – a theory. that “it feels right” to you does not justify your conclusory assertion’
btw, i don’t know why you feel you have to warn me (or anyone else) about “illusion of anonimity” in the www. i never have that kind of illusion, and i welcome any kind of confrontation with any one who gets offended by what i write. i take what is given me but i can dish out the same in return.
Roger that, Bencard.
Do Big Mike and GMA now have their “Reichstag Moment.”
By virtue of the emergency powers given to some people’s favorite poster boy Adolph we got to inculcate the words Gestapo, fuehrer and blitzkrieg in our everyday language. That became known in history as Adolph’s finest hour his “Reichstag moment”
Big Mike and GMA can now order their minions to arrest anyone without a warrant. Even under the constitutional rules governing the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus under martial law the authorities have only three days to hold anyone without a warrant.
The rules of arrest w/o warrant now enshrined in law under the Human “Security” Act is exactly the same as the rules under martial law in the Constitution.
There has been a lot of smoke and mirrors employed by the the authors and supporters of the so called “Human “Security” Law.
From the perspective of the dynamics of Jeffersonian liberalism and the continuing evolution of Anglo-Saxon common law that is the basis for Constitutional Law this is a regression to the past. U.S. Republican constitutional law evolved from British parliamentary law. The Brits remain to have the Queen as head of State but are ruled by Parliament headed by the PM. They have no constitution.
When talking about the evolution of liberalism this most important point escapes most people. The U.S. system goes way beyond the British system of guaranteeing individual civil and political rights.
There is no law in the U.S. that suspends the writ of habeas corpus for citizens of the United States unless martial law is declared. Right now even the right of the state to delve into private communication of U.S. citizens is sacrosanct. Probable cause will have to be established first.
The Human “Security Act in the Philippines using the same principles embodied in the Philippine Constitution as drawn for U.S. Constitutional law can therefore be challenged. The Chief Justice of the SC called it a mindless law.
Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma. A day care center for babies was located in the lower floors. Hundreds of men, women and children were killed. He simply wanted to send a message of his version of hate.
He was from Buffalo, N.Y. The U.S. federal government did not invade Buffalo nor did they impose emergency measures to bring him to justice. There are many people in the U.S. who share his beliefs.
Congressman Ron Paul (Republican) of Texas who is running for President in the first debate of Republican Presidential candidates declared that the 9/11 incident was blow-back for the U.S. for their continued imperial actions in the Middle East. He does not get media play in the mainstream media for his stand. He is a conservative in his political beliefs.
The MNLF/MILF and their offshoots or groups that have broken away from them evolving now for more than 30 years are now labeled Muslim terrorists by some.
Now we claim that if the state had preemptive tools like what is in the HSA the encounter that happened would never have happened.
Then they point to the Valentines day bombing and the Super Ferry incident wherein no forensic evidence has been established pointing to individuals or groups.
The reason I mentioned McVeigh is that diligent and painstaking forensic scientific work was done to link the guy.
I personally know family who lost member in 9/11 who got back a wedding ring from the rubble that was all sifted for remains and evidence.
It remains to be criminal investigative work that solves these crimes of mass murder.
The U.S. government under Bush branded this struggle the “War on Terror.” Even the Brits stopped using this brand because it causes more problems that it solves.
Transnational criminal activity of mass killings under the guise of an international Muslim insurgency is a stretch. Every Muslim crazy and for that part Christian crazies are all coming out of the woodwork.
To use it as a pretext to protect a state is to give unwarranted powers to the singular player in the state who already has a monopoly on the use of violence. To circumvent the rule of constitutional law for a perceived threat that might happen without identifying the threat based on facts is dangerous.
Even the American Jihadist analogy using the RICO statutes is a wild stretch. Rocky “The Bull” Graviano gave up John Gotti to the Federal Government that sent the so called “Teflon Don” to jail. “The Bull” was the hit man that Gotti used to take over the NY then controlled by Paul Castellano.
They got he guy without having the abolish the writ of habeas corpus. Once again relentless police work and enforcement.
In this country where the heads police and military owe their power and economic base to Big Mike and GMA you have no existing state structures to enforce and implement the rule of law. They are only written in law books. The system of patronage power which is endemic in this weak state make the rule of law a myth. We are ruled by the way these men who use the laws to oppress.
Into this breach we suddenly have military men questioning the power structure. Trillanes embodies this new development.
I do not envy this man’s position. He got almost 12M votes. He has a mandate for change. I do not know what will happen or whether he can use this small opening to enlighten or fool the people. Let us hope he uses this political capital diligently otherwise he will simply be co-opted by the structure.
The elite of this country who are mainly of the merchant and commercial class have no loyalties to the state. In fact they are the main reason and bar to the development of capitalism in this country. The Sy’s, Gokongwie’s, Tan’s, Ayala’s and the rest of the old elites are the continuing anachronism that is a contradiction to the rise of a truly national industrial elite that can only happen under a strong and effective state under the rule of law.
The unfortunate middle have to move to more effective states. There is no room for them here. Effective states require a strong economic base.
The next three legacy years for Big Mike and GMA will be the most interesting part of their rule.
Our dear soldiers, strong and true
Forever we shall remember you
You who protect us in war and strife
Now you’re bodies bereft of life
You whose deaths fills us all with pain
We won’t forget you, it shall remain
We commend your bodies to hallowed ground
Where your brethren of valor and honor abound
Against our enemies who know no rules
You tread the path even feared by fools
Where barbarians severed your hands and heads
Though you still be living or already dead
Thinking you’ll be reserved a place in hell
But your spirits have risen wherever you fell
And they have entered God’s/Allah’s holy throne
Where you are most fitting to a place of your own
And as we wail and shed our tears
We shall not waver, we shall not fear
For as your widows and orphans shall cry
“Papa gave all so the Republic won’t die!â€Â
And as this land we need to save
We won’t surrender, we shall be brave
For though the fighting has yet to be won
So that this country may remain as one
Rest now our soldiers, we say to you
Your duty is done while ours continue
And though this nation will grieve its loss
We know you’ve died for a most noble cause
HVRDS,
Sorry, but it’s obvious you have NOT read the HSA. You suffer from several major conceptual lapses:
(1) The crimes of terrorism and conspiracy to commit terrorism, are much more difficult to prove than any of the component criminal acts (which by definition must be crimes already punished under the Revised Penal Code.) You also have to prove fear and panic in the populace and an intent to coerce the govt thereby. And if you fail…
(2) Law enforcers are penalized in 25 provisions of the law with prison terms, monetary fines and administrative sanctions for various lapses. Terrorists are penalized in only four provisions of the Act’s 62 Sections. Such human rights protections do not exist in the laws like the Antiwiretapping Law.
(3) Jeffersonian privacy and liberty are expanded in this law. In the Antiwiretapping Act, there were no categories of persons excluded from Court-ordered surveillance (available from an RTC). Now even though you can still do surveillance and wiretapping by getting authorization from a Special Division of the Court of Appeals, but you cannot do it to:
(1) lawyers and their clients; (2) doctors and their patients; (3) journalists and their sources; and all business correspondence.
Reichstag Moment my foot, hvrds!
I count forty (at least) specific instances when a law enforcer can get up to 12 years in jail and be perpetually barred from public office for “violating human rights of suspected terrorists”…but check this out…
In one particularly ludicrous provision, (Section 23) we have this:
Section 23 The police or other law enforcement custodial unit who fails to comply with the preceding paragraph to keep an official logbook shall suffer the penalty of ten (10) years and one day to twelve (12) years of imprisonment.
12 years for failure to keep an official logbook?
That’s fascism? This is our Reichstag Moment?
Here pull my other leg too. It hurts.
It’s a booby trapped law! If I were a law enforcer, I would be CRAZY to try and use this law. Imagine I could go to jail and the People would have to pay a huge fine whenever someone I charge with terrorism is ACQUITTED. That 500,000 fine per day could make a lot of terrorists and judges very rich.
As for the much feared wiretapping, read the law folks! It’s only allowed for a nonextendible time period of 60 days, after which the police have to TELL the surveillance target that he has been surveilled, and they have to make all the surveillance data available to the target in case he or she wants to sue the police for “infringement of liberty.”!
That’s nice. If I were a terrorist, I would merrily communicate innocent chit chat with my terrorist contacts, then AFTER I get notice that I’ve been surveilled I know I can safely do the real job coz the cops have to close up shop when the authorization expires in 30 days, and in 60 days if they get the extension.
It’s an anti-anti-terrorist law.
Allahu Al Akhbar!
I see, you converted to Islam, Djb!
DJB, just like what Jaxius said (at July 13th, 2007, 12:52 am) i wish you’d make up your mind.
wow, that’s a lot the anti-terror folks up there have to fear abt. but thanks to their zeal and dedication to their job, im sure they’ll MAKE SURE they don’t get fined and/or penalized w/prison terms and/or disbarment from govt service by making sure never to inform the court that they’re planning to wiretap/arrest someone. that way, no record at all would exist of their involvement. and if they get accused of detaining someone missing, why, just use the tired old formula “who us? we don’t know anything abt that, and we didn’t issue any order like that.”
and just to cover their bases, if the arrested person turn out to be totally innocent, and they’ve already held him past the 3 day deadline, then its jz old snafu for poor detainee. no evidence, no crime.
it’s a shopping spree for govt cronies. seizures of property and default of ownership if convicted. that’s a lot of motivation to have someone convicted even if they’re innocent. esp if the suspect is rich.
Hopefully, this will be my final version.
Our dear soldiers, strong and true
Forever we shall remember you
You who protect us in war and strife
Now you are bodies bereft of life
You whose deaths fill us all with pain
We won’t forget you, you shall remain
In our hearts and in our minds
To your sacrifice we shall not be blind
Against our enemies who know no rules
You tread the path even feared by fools
Where barbarians severed your hands and heads
Though you still be living or already dead
Thinking you’ll merit a place in hell
But your spirits have risen wherever you fell
And they have entered God’s/Allah’s holy throne
Where you are most worthy of a place of your own
And as we wail and shed our tears
We shall not waver, we shall not fear
Because your widows and orphans cry
“Papa gave all so the Republic won’t die!â€Â
And for this land that we must save
We shall not falter, we shall be brave
For though the fighting has yet to be won
So that this country may remain as one
Rest now our soldiers, we say unto you
Your duty is done while ours continue
And though this nation will grieve its loss
We know you’ve died for a most noble cause
We commend you now to hallowed ground
Where your brethren of valor and honor abound
And after the parades and the speeches are done
The gratitude of your people shall never be gone