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	<title>Comments on: The Long View: Showdown</title>
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	<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/</link>
	<description>Punditry. Politics. History. Commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Birth Anniversary of Corazon C. Aquino &#124; blogwatch.tv</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1084114</link>
		<dc:creator>Birth Anniversary of Corazon C. Aquino &#124; blogwatch.tv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 02:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1084114</guid>
		<description>[...] Awakening. The result?The Philippines is OK and we have A more balanced Philippines, after the Great Showdown of 2010, in which the Arroyo babies had to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Awakening. The result?The Philippines is OK and we have A more balanced Philippines, after the Great Showdown of 2010, in which the Arroyo babies had to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In Asia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Looking Back as May 2010 Philippine General Elections Approach</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1078521</link>
		<dc:creator>In Asia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Looking Back as May 2010 Philippine General Elections Approach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 01:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1078521</guid>
		<description>[...] the Nacionalistas (Manny Villar, the real-estate tycoon and son-in-law of a Marcos-era mayor who managed to become a post-Marcos [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Nacionalistas (Manny Villar, the real-estate tycoon and son-in-law of a Marcos-era mayor who managed to become a post-Marcos [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Long View: Home stretch : Manuel L. Quezon III: The Daily Dose</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1078063</link>
		<dc:creator>The Long View: Home stretch : Manuel L. Quezon III: The Daily Dose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 01:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1078063</guid>
		<description>[...] the heart of the choice that voters and candidates have to make, is whether they will throw their lot with the veterans of the Marcos martial law machine, or gamble on.... Both, in a sense, are on their second and even third generations and with some interesting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the heart of the choice that voters and candidates have to make, is whether they will throw their lot with the veterans of the Marcos martial law machine, or gamble on&#8230;. Both, in a sense, are on their second and even third generations and with some interesting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: abemargallo</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1076179</link>
		<dc:creator>abemargallo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1076179</guid>
		<description>I mean &quot;From which floor, Sir.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean &#8220;From which floor, Sir.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: abemargallo</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1076175</link>
		<dc:creator>abemargallo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1076175</guid>
		<description>So Tatad was under duress when he became the youthful face of martial law, as with Lucio Tan when he â€œfrontedâ€ for the conjugal dictatorship (at least thatâ€™s what Imelda and Bongbong admit in court now)?

Do you recall the funny vignette then: Ver was told by Marcos to jump from a building in Ayala. The  dedicated general tried to clarify but without any hesitation: â€œFrom which from floor, Sir.â€

On the other hand, Laurel and company were always under suspicion, and successfully argued with the Japanese occupiers that they cannot be forced to swear allegiance to Japan under the Hague Convention.  

No, Iâ€™m not excusing Dubya for a war of choice in Iraq but I would for the Allied invasion of Normandy. You can kill or be killed for a just cause. But torture and extra-judicial killings? Can plunder be justified on national security grounds?

Noynoy did not appear to be excessively romanticizing when he authored a bill to require business to share profits with workers. Neither his father, Ninoy, when he publicly professed: â€œIâ€™m a Christian socialist.â€</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Tatad was under duress when he became the youthful face of martial law, as with Lucio Tan when he â€œfrontedâ€ for the conjugal dictatorship (at least thatâ€™s what Imelda and Bongbong admit in court now)?</p>
<p>Do you recall the funny vignette then: Ver was told by Marcos to jump from a building in Ayala. The  dedicated general tried to clarify but without any hesitation: â€œFrom which from floor, Sir.â€</p>
<p>On the other hand, Laurel and company were always under suspicion, and successfully argued with the Japanese occupiers that they cannot be forced to swear allegiance to Japan under the Hague Convention.  </p>
<p>No, Iâ€™m not excusing Dubya for a war of choice in Iraq but I would for the Allied invasion of Normandy. You can kill or be killed for a just cause. But torture and extra-judicial killings? Can plunder be justified on national security grounds?</p>
<p>Noynoy did not appear to be excessively romanticizing when he authored a bill to require business to share profits with workers. Neither his father, Ninoy, when he publicly professed: â€œIâ€™m a Christian socialist.â€</p>
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		<title>By: thecusponline</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1076143</link>
		<dc:creator>thecusponline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1076143</guid>
		<description>Abe, so you for you, &quot;all is fair in love and war&quot; then. While in the absence of war, the same atrocities are considered &quot;impermissible&quot;. I don&#039;t think you can have it both ways. An atrocity is an atrocity whatever the context it was committed in, be it in high intensity situations or low intensity ones, such as in Mendiola, Tarlac or Maguindanao, right?

In this election, the knight of one is the knave of another. Let us not engage in romanticism excessively, that&#039;s all I&#039;m saying. We will be in for larger bouts of cynicism and despondency later on if we do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abe, so you for you, &#8220;all is fair in love and war&#8221; then. While in the absence of war, the same atrocities are considered &#8220;impermissible&#8221;. I don&#8217;t think you can have it both ways. An atrocity is an atrocity whatever the context it was committed in, be it in high intensity situations or low intensity ones, such as in Mendiola, Tarlac or Maguindanao, right?</p>
<p>In this election, the knight of one is the knave of another. Let us not engage in romanticism excessively, that&#8217;s all I&#8217;m saying. We will be in for larger bouts of cynicism and despondency later on if we do.</p>
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		<title>By: thecusponline</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1076141</link>
		<dc:creator>thecusponline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1076141</guid>
		<description>MLQ3, I don&#039;t know what to make of your last point. What you term as an &quot;orderly transfer of power&quot;, the use of patronage to gain control of the house, would preserve politics as we know it and undermine parties as political institutions.

GMA is within her rights and privileges if she wants to run for Congress. John Quincy Adams did so too. And if she engages in patronage in her bid for speakership, then that is no worse than if the next president attempts the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MLQ3, I don&#8217;t know what to make of your last point. What you term as an &#8220;orderly transfer of power&#8221;, the use of patronage to gain control of the house, would preserve politics as we know it and undermine parties as political institutions.</p>
<p>GMA is within her rights and privileges if she wants to run for Congress. John Quincy Adams did so too. And if she engages in patronage in her bid for speakership, then that is no worse than if the next president attempts the same.</p>
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		<title>By: abemargallo</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1076134</link>
		<dc:creator>abemargallo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1076134</guid>
		<description>Cusp (and mlq3),

Iâ€™m not sure if there was even a need for Benigno, Sr to be â€œpolitically rehabilitated.â€ Manolo can confirm this but anybody who was anybody in the Philippines during the Japanese occupation was a â€œcollaboratorâ€ with the exception of a handful, some paid dearly with their lives such as Abad Santos and Wenceslao Vinzons. 

The election in 1946 of Manuel Roxas as president effectively eclipsed the collaboration issue. (Roxas was himself accused as a collaborator, a bitter issue raise by his opponents during the presidential election). President Roxas later issued a proclamation of amnesty for the collaborators which was approved by a collaborator-dominated congress. 

Now, local administrators like Estrada and Nemesio Yabut of Makati served as Marcos lieutenants for survival, political or otherwise, and not to make the lives of his constituency bearable.  

Cusp, for allowing the pillage of the economy through booty capitalism, for one, some Marcos technocrats deserved to hang by the lamp post.        

Hair-splitting? More than 3,000 extrajudicial killings, 35,000 torture victims, and about 100,000 victims of arbitrary arrests when thereâ€™s neither a civil war nor a global war to speak of?

Letâ€™s get real, the power of persuasion and of setting the agenda, not formal authority,  is the real power of any president, whether of a mature democracy or a Third World country.  And cusp, you very well know that unless, a dictator, a president cannot monopolize policy making.  
 
â€œElecting a shiny white knight to replace her will not change the dynamics of this.â€ Are you then suggesting transformation by other than normal means?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cusp (and mlq3),</p>
<p>Iâ€™m not sure if there was even a need for Benigno, Sr to be â€œpolitically rehabilitated.â€ Manolo can confirm this but anybody who was anybody in the Philippines during the Japanese occupation was a â€œcollaboratorâ€ with the exception of a handful, some paid dearly with their lives such as Abad Santos and Wenceslao Vinzons. </p>
<p>The election in 1946 of Manuel Roxas as president effectively eclipsed the collaboration issue. (Roxas was himself accused as a collaborator, a bitter issue raise by his opponents during the presidential election). President Roxas later issued a proclamation of amnesty for the collaborators which was approved by a collaborator-dominated congress. </p>
<p>Now, local administrators like Estrada and Nemesio Yabut of Makati served as Marcos lieutenants for survival, political or otherwise, and not to make the lives of his constituency bearable.  </p>
<p>Cusp, for allowing the pillage of the economy through booty capitalism, for one, some Marcos technocrats deserved to hang by the lamp post.        </p>
<p>Hair-splitting? More than 3,000 extrajudicial killings, 35,000 torture victims, and about 100,000 victims of arbitrary arrests when thereâ€™s neither a civil war nor a global war to speak of?</p>
<p>Letâ€™s get real, the power of persuasion and of setting the agenda, not formal authority,  is the real power of any president, whether of a mature democracy or a Third World country.  And cusp, you very well know that unless, a dictator, a president cannot monopolize policy making.  </p>
<p>â€œElecting a shiny white knight to replace her will not change the dynamics of this.â€ Are you then suggesting transformation by other than normal means?</p>
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		<title>By: mlq3</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1076129</link>
		<dc:creator>mlq3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1076129</guid>
		<description>there is a distinction to be made for patronage as part of the processes of democratic government or even in building one kind of state: the question is whether the political process is nudged towards in the opposite direction, actually weakening the state as the government of the day tries to shore up its crumbling authority. the tug of war then becomes between those who&#039;d prefer a system that allows for the orderly and predictable transfer of power, reinvigorating the system as required, and one clinging by all means fair and foul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is a distinction to be made for patronage as part of the processes of democratic government or even in building one kind of state: the question is whether the political process is nudged towards in the opposite direction, actually weakening the state as the government of the day tries to shore up its crumbling authority. the tug of war then becomes between those who&#8217;d prefer a system that allows for the orderly and predictable transfer of power, reinvigorating the system as required, and one clinging by all means fair and foul.</p>
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		<title>By: thecusponline</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2010/02/11/the-long-view-showdown/comment-page-1/#comment-1076086</link>
		<dc:creator>thecusponline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=3780#comment-1076086</guid>
		<description>We might be splitting hairs here. It is true that the Aquino name only got rehabilitated politically through Benigno, Jr. And that Roxas was under instructions to make life during the War bearable. But then again, many of the technocrats and small town administrators who served under Marcos would claim the same.

My point is that demarcating a point in time, i.e. 1986, 2001, 2005 or 1945 for that matter becomes arbitrary if not haphazard for these reasons. The one constant in all this since the early 1900s is the dominance of political families in milking the system to engage in patronage to retain power. 

It doesn&#039;t matter which dispensation prevails. Mrs Arroyo is but the latest in a long succession of presidents since Quezon who have exploited the potential for centralising authority based on patronage. Electing a shiny white knight to replace her will not change the dynamics of this.

It only took 18 months after the yellow revolution for the restoration of elite patronage based politics to occur. Under Aquino-Roxas patronage will have to be relied on from Day 1 in order to woo Lakas Kampi members who would otherwise form a majority in the House away from Mrs Arroyo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We might be splitting hairs here. It is true that the Aquino name only got rehabilitated politically through Benigno, Jr. And that Roxas was under instructions to make life during the War bearable. But then again, many of the technocrats and small town administrators who served under Marcos would claim the same.</p>
<p>My point is that demarcating a point in time, i.e. 1986, 2001, 2005 or 1945 for that matter becomes arbitrary if not haphazard for these reasons. The one constant in all this since the early 1900s is the dominance of political families in milking the system to engage in patronage to retain power. </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter which dispensation prevails. Mrs Arroyo is but the latest in a long succession of presidents since Quezon who have exploited the potential for centralising authority based on patronage. Electing a shiny white knight to replace her will not change the dynamics of this.</p>
<p>It only took 18 months after the yellow revolution for the restoration of elite patronage based politics to occur. Under Aquino-Roxas patronage will have to be relied on from Day 1 in order to woo Lakas Kampi members who would otherwise form a majority in the House away from Mrs Arroyo.</p>
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