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Jan 05

Like Rashomon

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In Why the Pangandaman Issue Refuses to Die or At Least Abate, the Warrior Lawyer points to the archetype of the Bullying Official as the reason behind the longevity of the Valley Golf Beating Story. There seems to have been a kind of bewilderment in official circles that the beatings became headline material. Warrior Lawyer explains why:

Furthermore, the Pangandamans lost the war for public sympathy from the onset, the circumstances of the event being what it is. Setting aside the question of who gave provocation, it’s clear from the versions of both sides that the De la Paz family were at the losing end of the encounter. There was the father, no spring chicken, and his 14-year old son and college-age daughter, against able-bodied young men, powerful and influential people at that, and their armed bodyguards. Who’s being bullied here ? Pinoys will always sympathize with the underdog.

And if the rumors are to be believed, the Pangandaman camp have little idea of how the blogosphere operates. They have allegedly tried to find out and “profile” the persons behind the blogs attacking them to find ways to counteract such efforts. If true, then they betray a total lack of understanding of the viral nature of the beast. It’s not the individual blogs that dictate the agenda (not that there is even one) of the blogosphere but the medium itself: the immediacy and rapid dissemination of news and opinion among community members numbering in the tens of thousands. Issues take on a life of their own in the internet, by reason of the sheer momentum generated by information speedily passing from one person to another through blogs, social networking sites and the like. The only way to deal with it is on its own terms, by battling it out in the democratic space provided by the internet.

Moreover, the blogosphere is not a universe unto itself. Bloggers are, like it or not, part of the world at large. They are not immune from political and societal forces and will not be restrained from, at the very least, commenting on the issues of the day. They simply won’t keep quiet and anyone who tries to make them shut up would be like King Canute commanding the tides of the sea to roll back.

In his blog (see The Golf Incident: The Trouble with Mirrors), [email protected], a person inclined to be judicious at all times, was concerned over what he perceived to be yet another case of the mob mentality of the blogosphere:

The initial reaction and predictable one is to call for the resignation of the politicians involve in the case. Related to this a series of debate has ensued on Net both via the blogs and the comment threads. The huffing and puffing of beliefs and opinions.

These are all well and good on a certain level but it would be unfortunate if it becomes an issue of trial by posts and a discussion/debate that would pull out all known political and social beliefs and theories. The first one falling into a lynch mob mentality and the second one reminds one of the ineffective men of the floating island of Laputa (from Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travel). The citizens of Laputa intelligent men that they were had one tragic flaw – so indulged in the pursuit of knowledge and reasoning that they did not use their knowledge for any practical use: to much into the thought process and no input in the action.

After a reasonable time; debate without action is as effective as cupping a corpse.

So here we are;

I am not really a fan of trial by posts. It is a blind rage that can be destructive to those who receive and uses its power. Rather it would be better to use this “power” to ensure that the case is monitored and not left to die. Legal measures are a welcome resort in such case and for the politicians involved in the case – leave of absence or resignation would also be appropriate.

And again when the debate goes way for argument’s sake – well it becomes useless and at some point deadly – apathy is not the only thing that kills a cause.

This medium is truly like a mirror and reflects the actions of all those involved.

His concern was for the truth to emerge; I engaged him in discussions on this over several days, arguing that there were two issues at hand, a political one, and one of personal justice, and that the political issue had resolved itself when the Secretary hadn’t even deigned to offer to go on leave, move to resolve matters, or in any way relinquish (at least temporarily) his authority so as to foster an unimpeded investigation; that the other concerns were properly the province of the courts as far as assigning compensation for any damages, etc. The very fact a national official reacted by going to Baguio to be seen to be “malakas” with the President, not relinquishing his post or going on leave, would send a message (implicitly supported by the President’s silence on the matter and her New Year’s activities in the secretary’s bailiwick) he was untouchable.

Baratillo prefered a more phlegmatic approach, waiting for evidence to trickle in. In subsequent conversations, Baratillo brought up the movie Rashomon as an apt comparison to the whole golf mauling brouhaha:

The film depicts the rape of a woman and the apparent murder of her husband through the widely differing accounts of four witnesses, including the rapist and, through a medium (Fumiko Honma), the dead man. The stories are mutually contradictory, leaving the viewer to determine which, if any, is the truth. The story unfolds in flashback as the four characters – the bandit Taj-maru (Toshiro Mifune), the murdered samurai (Masayuki Mori), his wife (Machiko Kyo), and the nameless woodcutter (Takashi Shimura) – recount the events of one afternoon in a grove. But it is also a flashback within a flashback, because the accounts of the witnesses are being retold by a woodcutter and a priest (Minoru Chiaki) to a ribald commoner (Kichijiro Ueda) as they wait out a rainstorm in a ruined gatehouse identified by a sign as Rashomon.

On the other hand, The Marocharim Experiment compared it to a story by Guy de Maupassant and observed,

Yet for all the bitching and whining that is taking place between the Hauchecomes and the Malandains of this issue, we’re pretty much privy to it. Like the villagers who saw the fight between Hauchecome and Malandain as nothing more than a battle of differences between strings and pocketbooks, many still see this as a battle of whodunnit first at the golf course many of us can’t afford to go to.

While they squabble about who struck the other first, some of us fail to frame this issue along – not to separate it from – the many different injustices we all suffer. The fact that something occured means that it cannot be denied.

To be sure, that is what’s unfolded since the first account, by Bambee dela Paz, emerged. This is a public issue only insofar as a public official is involved, a minor was physically harmed, and that the official took it to the point of repeated physical confrontation because he had the ultimate check on any efforts to impose reason and sobriety -his bodyguards- and continued to brandish these things as the case became a publicly-discussed one.

In a comment on Journaling on the Net, columnist Ducky Paredes took the opposite tack from my entry on the subject, where I’d pointed out that this was a case of provincial warlordism colliding with metropolitan expectations of limits on official behavior:

I am glad that some on the blogsphere want to know what really happened and not what they want to believe. It’s tough for the Pangandamans; they’re in government and with the unpopular Gloria Arroyo plus they;re outsiders being from Mindanao and Muslims. Tough but all of that has to be factored in.

Accepted that the beating up was too much - an overkill; but as a Valley golfer, let me just say that the ones who breached etiquette were the De la Paz twosome who even drove the ball and almost hit Mayor Pangandaman.

The world has gone crazy? Yes. It has dumped on the Pangandamans mainly because of ther being in government, with Gloria and are outsiders.

This is not to say that I condone what was done to the De la Paz father and son; but, could it be that they had it coming?

This is basically the case for the Pangandaman’s defense, cleverly argued indeed (there is a certain truth, perhaps, to pointing out anyone associated with the President won’t get much by way of an assumption of any kind of innocence; but the “from Mindanao” and “Muslim” arguments are canards, because first of all, there are no “outsiders” on the golf course, their being golfers making them part of the more cosmopolitan golf-playing set; and the Muslim part being totally irrelevant because what is colliding is not religion but rather, wardlordism, is equally represented among Muslims and Christians).

The whole thing has been furiously argued -and in great detail- in all sorts of places though the forum that is quoted a lot happens to be a particular thread on Pinoygolfer.com. Here, two commenters, “rge,” and “jick” basically give the pros and cons for both sides, with “rge” laying the case for the Pangandamans and “jick” taking the skeptical side (see “rge’s” Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:39 pm post on page 13; then “jick’s” response, Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:15 pm on page 14; where he questions the alleged preview of the fact-finding committee’s finds as being awfully close to the Pangandaman side posted on page 5 of the forum). Add to the various eyewitness accounts, the Incident Report first put online in a scoop by At Midfield.

I’ve taken the liberty of reproducing the efforts of “jick” to put together the two main eyewitness accounts (Bambee dela Paz’s, in green, and a member of the Pangandaman flight, in red) with his observations and his reference to the Guards’ report (in blue):

So this is all very interesting in a CSI sort of way, but it’s interesting to note that the pertinent facts emerged early on and have not changed: an official and his group, beat up a citizen and a minor. The only thing that has changed is that after some time, the officials got out their version and went on a media counter-offensive; and that other details began to be revealed, such as, that the fight may have originally been picked by the citizen; and aside from that, there seems to be imputations of aggressive/unpleasant behavior concerning both dela Paz, Sr. and Pangandaman, Jr. In other words, as with most fights, it was between gorillas. But it was all taken a fight too far (since there were, apparently, two, as was known from the start).

The whole problem is if it had stayed at fight one, the Secretary, the Mayor, et al. would be in the clear and could argue they put a gorilla in his place; fight two showed they were gorillas, too -and with armed goons, to boot.

But I also believe that the window of opportunity, so to speak, for this to be a public issue, has already closed. The moment the dela Pazes took it to court, and the Pangandangans filed their counter-suits, it has become a battle over compensation which is for the courts to decide, and in which the public ought to have little interest -except the more general one, for all cases, that it be concluded by means of a speedy and fair trial. But as far as the political resolution of the political part of this issue: where public pressure ought to have been applied to pressure the Secretary to make manifest his willingness to be held accountable for the incident, and for the President to suspend the Mayor, the chance for that has passed. As it was expected to, of course.

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  1. Pilipinoparin

    “Personally, I want to see the alabang boys in a congested prison in muntinlupa for 25 years. Really…” Philwo

    I second the motion. But I doubt it, they belong to the bigwigs and if ever they are convicted, most probably it would be like a tap on the wrist or the most, a few years in Munti in special condos with all amenities, separate from jailed Juan de la Cruz…just like Jalosjos.

    The more “explosive bomb” here is how these lawyers do their tricks! How could they “manufacture” those papers? It is supposed to be signed by the Sec? the highest guy in that Department? Talagang malakas ang loob ano? Is it common in DOJ?

  2. bw

    I play golf every weekend here bro – between late spring and fall. I play in public courses – majority of which are in this part of the world. How about you?

    Playing through isn’t the rule of the game – it is an exception. On many ocassions we had to let a lone golfer or a pair ahead because he/they had to wait for 4 of us ( we were all walking). We also felt no pressure if no one is trailing us and we can take our time – that sort of thing. Now if the courses are full, each group need to keep up with the pace. No need to kill each other for this.

    Going back to the brouhaha, if you check the link I supplied in my last post, the marshal had confirmed that the Pangandamans were actually registered in the flight before the de la Pazes and were simply catching up.

    Here’s the Pinoy crap that is typical of our nature – ” I am a frigging member of this club – who the fuck are you trying to get ahead of me ?”

    Now, Bambee de la Paz, a golf scholar at the University of Cincinnati was with the de la Paz group. I’m pretty sure she knows golf ettiqute to the letter. In her blog she claims the Pangandamans didn’t have the courtesy to ask – they just went through.

    Who is telling the truth ? Net net, there was no reason for latercations which could lead to cutting each other’s throats. What was at stake here ? Frigging 10 minutes of delay ????

  3. bw

    altercations 🙂

  4. TonGuE-tWisTeD

    Ah, so any mayor with his bodyguards can register and even if you’re MORE THAN AN HOUR LATE, the starter allows you to tee off at hole #4! No need to be inconvenienced by waiting at the clubhouse. Ang galing.

    Golf course ba talaga yang Valley Golf o sungkaan?

  5. leytenian

    bw,

    i’m not a bro but a sis. so if the mayor was indeed registered to be ahead of the dela paz but LATE on pace of Play. who has the responsibility to maintain order of Pace of Play and warned the dela paz that a possible Play through may occur?

    the mayor’s reaction of insisting that he was registered first is irrelevant. Because the dela paz was already allowed to tee off by VGCC. They were already on the 4th or 5th tee. If I have to calculate the time in every hole at normal pace, it could be every 15 minutes for golf cart and longer for walking as time spent in every hole.
    This could mean that the mayor was late for an hour or more from the original registration. I will not believe that the mayor was only late for 30 minutes because this could only take the dela paz on the second hole.

    Even if we assumed that the pangandamans were registered together, the mayor who was late should have confronted the club marshall and let the marshall do all the talking to the dela paz so that the mayor can play through. Is it not the right thing to do as a public servant?, to uphold the law of ethics and respect the citizens he serves

    The dela paz has the right to say NO to anybody who will play through, don’t you think?

    If we are both on the same golf course, I am ahead of you. I am walking with 2 other friends and you are in the cart with 2 other friends. How do you approach me to play thru. When is the best time to approach me and my group? What would be your reaction if I will say NO to your request of play through? would you say, hindi mo ba ako kilala? 🙂

    As a golfer, do you request to play through in the middle of the fairways where I am already on my second shot or when I’m done with the hole?

    Do you like to swing your club when moving golf cart or moving object is within your vicinity of view? It could have been that the mayor did not wait for the right time that the dela paz was annoyed. In this case, who is responsible in starting the fight?

    The whole issue is political with no ethics and moral. Please do not play like the mayor. It will not improve your game. 🙂

  6. leytenian

    bw,

    it’s not altercations. it’s about ethics in golf and ethics in public service. the latter is what make this issue sensational. it reflects the ethical behavior of the current administration.

  7. bw

    You nailed it sis .. The marshal should have informed de la Paz that the Pangandamans are registered in the flight before them. Now, should de la Paz acquiesce to the marshal’s request ? In my book and consistent with the golf rule book, the answer is YES. That’s what marshals do – they regulate the flow of the game. NOTE : I’m only talking of letting through with the flight directly BEHIND me.

    Now, If I was to be told to wait to let through another team 3 holes behind me to catch up with their flight ahead of me – hindi pwede yan. That’s not consistent with the rule book. If they want to play with their mates in front of me, they better skip the 3 holes
    and join them immediately. I would give a rats ass if they join them on the 17th hole – it’s their money , not mine .

    We of course know that what transpired after was the case of pataasan ng ihi, sindakan – bakit inuuhanan mo ako, sino ka ba, e late ka naman blah..blah. In short, both parties started making a mountain out of a molehill and nearly killed each other in the process 🙁

  8. bw

    I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass… 🙂

  9. leytenian

    bw,

    the pangandamans did not ask permission to play through. they drove pass the dela paz. Now, is this consistent with your book in the game of golf? if not, what’s your reaction?

    me, I will get my money back and confront the mayor. the mayor then has the responsibility to keep it calm.His actions ruined his own credibility. Now they are begging to stop the blogs. hahahah. that’s what they get from bringing their barbaric side in the golf course.

    in normal scenario, anybody would be insulted or upset if someone will just play through without permission.

    the pangandamans were not fair at all. They were using their power to control the PACE of play. No way Jose.

  10. sleek

    why is Gloria still not suspending both pangandamans from public service? what did Gloria owe to these people?

    Gloria should not care anymore. She only has until 2010 anyway. Make then resign Now or Never.

    Bloggers keep your voices loud. Great job.

  11. bw

    Barbaric actions are never justified in any manner whatsoever and this is what makes it shameful.

    For me and in my experience many times over , the marshal’s instruction is more compelling than the player’s request. I have no issue if a group goes in front of me as long as the marshal has forewarned me of the reason.

    Problem in Pinas is politicians feel a sense of entitlement and preferential treatment hence the lack of humility. Club members also consider themselves a chosen lot, esp when you have an elite player in your team you think you’re being dissed if people pass you over. Bottom line it’s freaking PRIDE on both protagonists that caused the escalation to violence. Further – do these elite people respect the MARSHAL anyway? E empleyado lang ng club yung marshal at puro saludo sa lahat na guests ang pobre 🙁

    Kahambugan lang ang dahilan ng incident na ito. In my opinion, both parties are at fault here and man, I’m not a Gloria fan either but common, she’s got nothing to do with these pathetic assholes who squabble over marbles – that’s stretching it too far in my opinion.

    I think the Valley club is on the right path by expelling both these numnuts from the membership for their stupidity which is an insult to a gentleman’s sport that relies heavily on the most extraordinary set of rules in the world of sport. Only in golf can you get disqualified for carrying more than 8 balls and 14 clubs in a tournament 🙂 It’s a fun game with absolutely no body contact and here’s people trying to kill each other all because of a tee off confusion… yikes 🙁

  12. sleek

    bullshit all of you people !

    hindi niyo ba ako kilala?

    I gave Gloria millions of votes. She owed me her seat.

    I will not resign over this brawl.

    Oh ano, kilala niyo na ako?

    I will counter sue for bullshitting me… tandaan niyo yan!!!!!

    🙂

    and the farmers are begging for their lands that the DAR secretary cannot deliver.

  13. hvrds

    Why can’t people distinguish between etiquette and ethics.

    Both sides are guilty of bad etiquette. However the one side that has the so called political power stepped over the bounds of ethical behavior.

    Ethical/moral values in a country run by fiefdoms means the De la Paz family should have first addressed the other side as your Lordships to inquire as to why they appeared to have jumped the line so to speak.

    Those Lords were taken aback when they were not recognized and given their proper due. The group should have had their bodyguards first inform the elder De La Paz that they were royalty and could do as they pleased. The sons of the Secretary of Dar should not have even spoken to De La Paz and should have had their asistants take care of the matter.

    Hey guys settle down already as when you are on the streets of the Philippines and hear a “wang wang” you give way no matter who is jumping the line.

  14. Carl

    Bad remake: “CADDYSHACK” Philippine version.

  15. Bert

    “You can only appreciate this brouhaha when you are an avid fan of the game….”-bw

    Ah, so, golfer as you are, you appreciate this brouhaha, as if that brawl in the Valley Golf and Boxing Club a shooting of a Max Alvarado film, heheh.

    Wierd foreign golfer!

  16. Rob' Ramos

    I don’t understand why I have to be a golfer to “appreciate” that a MAYOR, the son of a Cabinet Secretary no less, beat up or was part of a group that beat up a 14-year old kid.

    I’m all for hearing other sides and not taking a black-and-white position on any issue, but, really… beating up a 14-year old. Over golf.

    So, tell me… is there something that could ever justify THAT?

    And please note that what complicates this matter is the fact that the Pangandamans are a political family. Too bad for them there’s already bad name-association with that, but I know of a lot of political families who DO exercise restraint when in an altercation. The thing was, REGARDLESS of who started it, a decent individual would NOT have beat up a 14-year old kid!

    Yes, we are all witness to the way our so-called leaders exercise entitlement, but… really: beating up a kid?

    Does that seem EXCUSABLE to you?

  17. Carl

    “Two wrongs don’t make a right but three rights make a left.” – From the classic movie “Caddyshack”

  18. baycas

    More of “Happy Gilmore

    …i.e., Gilmore x2 (DLP + P)*

    Twice the violent behavior…but nothing hilarious.

    Latest Reviews:

    VGCC weekly: “Why did it have to happen here?”
    DAR bulletin: “For the Secretary’s eyes only.”
    Bloggers monthly: “Bring it on!”
    NBI daily: “A must-see!”
    RP times: “Two thumbs down!”
    GMA fortnightly: “Two thumbs up…and a tongue out!!!”

    —–
    *MTRCB rating XX

  19. baycas

    Addendum:

    Masiu chronicle: “A box office sensation!”

  20. bw

    Bob Ramos –

    This is what I said “Barbaric actions are never justified in any manner whatsoever and this is what makes it shameful”

    Agree. The Pangandamans have to suffer the consequences of their barbaric actions. If the court says they each deserve a belly putter plunged into their butts from tip to toe, so be it. But that doesn’t mean that de la Paz can trot around with his tongue out celebrating victory. The courts must likewise smash his balls with a wedge ( a driver will be a bit too much methinks 🙂 ) for acting like a prick and for stupidly causing misery to himself and to his poor son. 😯

  21. leytenian

    bw,

    i think it was courageous for bambee to express her anger and bino to let it out at a young age. although i will not encourage it to my children but the people of this country has been so voiceless. this case spread like wildfire across the blogosphere. It gives signal to all political figures that activity is not only on rally but on the internet. these kids will be stronger because they did the right thing. Arrogance is curable but the foundation of a barbaric exposure can be compared to a stone age personality. That will take a long time for the pangandamans to repair.

    i still believe that the mayor threw the first punch to the arrogant mouth of dela paz. ( i won’t blame dela paz though) . If this case will go to trial and i happen to be one of the jury, I will send the mayor to jail and suspend the DAR secretary. That’s what democracy is all about.

  22. istambay_sakalye

    my two cents on this, let me put it this way, i am mr.dela paz, with my fourteen year old son and eighteen or something daughter, trying to pick a fight with bulky men and with body guards. i don’t care how disrespected i felt i was but common sense will tell me i will have the shit beat out of me and i will put my son and daughter in danger too. maybe the fact that he was a member of country club gave a false sense of security that if the fight escalated people will intervene and nothing will happen. or maybe he only was expecting verbal tirades and that’s it.

    i don’t really care about both sides. they could beat the shit out of each other for all i care. if you are that stupid to put yourself, your son and daughter in danger just because of golf etiquette? don’t get me wrong i play golf too, so none of those “only golfers will understand” crap. there is a time and place to pick your battle. instead of raising hell mr dela paz could have brought it with the management and made a better role model of himself to his son and daughter. again, mr, dela paz i never thought he’ll get the beating of his life!

    then the daughter goes to blog and blame everyone else except his dad who should have exercise restraint and could have avoided all this. now that the public is (mostly) behind them they are willing to settle out of court?! sorry to say mr. dela paz deserve to have his ass kicked but not his son and dauhgter. you will hate me for writing these but son and daughter should kick dad’s ass too for putting them in danger!

  23. leytenian

    istambay,

    i will have the shit beat out of me and i will put my son and daughter in danger too.

    did you really think that dela paz could have have known that the Pangandamans are dangerous on the first place? in normal day to play golf, would you really think that there will be danger in in the golf course? Danger sign was not visible. 🙂 Danger was not expected. This is a golf course for god sake except for lightning. Even lightning don’t have sign around the course , the weatherman will tell you that. It was a perfect day for the children to play golf. Of course, you don’t put your children in danger, that’s common sense but that’s beside the point.

    The word dangerous confirms even more that the pangandamans are indeed dangerous. 🙂

    Perfect wildfire across the internet. I am loving it.

  24. istambay_sakalye

    as i have earlier stated, dad with teenage son and daughter against a group of young bulky men, where is your common sense. and if he forgot he was in da pilipins not in tate as some of our ex-pats are. anywhere you are you always in danger. sad and embarrassing but it is the reality here in pinas. i don’t care if they are the pangandamans or the tarpolanos you don’t put yourself in a situation that can put your family in harms way! in a country club or tennis club!

    hello! yes, i treat all government officials as dangerous, especially with gma admin.. you have to be ignorant not to do so! harsh reality isn’t it?

  25. istambay_sakalye

    with regads to lightning in golf courses, common sense will tell you not to use an umbrella with steel point during those weather condition. just common sense. 😉

  26. istambay_sakalye

    “Danger sign was not visible. ”

    if you need a “danger sign” all the time to tell you that danger is just around the corner then maybe God wasn’t generous when he showered us humans with common sense.

  27. istambay_sakalye

    let me make it clear here, i am not defending the pangandamans in any form or shape. the point i am trying to get across here is that mr. dela paz is not faultless in what has transpired. all of this could have been avoided if BOTH parties could have practiced restraint on their parts. but a lot of water under the bridge and i see that both parties are willing to settle of court amicably without admitting fault on either side!

  28. leytenian

    istambay,

    the golf course is not a place that one will expect danger in normal condition. the possibility of danger is LOW. Now if you take you children to a crowded place in the are of mindanao and you know for fact that there’s recent bombing in the area, then you are putting your children in danger.

    The word danger do not belong to the golf course where the scenery is very beautiful therefore the pangandamans were a danger to a golf course that no one would have ever known. anybody who will verbally intimidate them will be in danger. 🙂

    maybe we should not use the word danger? how about barbaric? 🙂

  29. leytenian

    correction: Now if you take you children to a crowded place in the area of mindanao and you know for a fact that there was a recent bombing in the area, then you are putting your children in danger.

  30. leytenian

    istambay,

    i will still use my umbrella to poke somebody for self defense if provoke. we all know that an umbrella is not the right tool to start a fight. it is just common sense. 🙂

  31. istambay_sakalye

    “The word danger do not belong to the golf course where the scenery is very beautiful”

    are sure you are a golfer??? let us take away pangandamans from the equation and a golf course is still a dangerous place on it’s own! have you heard of people getting hit by golf balls and one should always be alert when someone yells “fore!” ? a golf course is a beautiful place indeed but dangerous as well! but let us not stray from the point that mr dela paz is not as faultless as most may think he is. not only he managed to got the shit beat out of him he also place his own son and daughter in harms way. atapang a tao eh!

  32. istambay_sakalye

    “i will still use my umbrella to poke somebody for self defense if provoke. we all know that an umbrella is not the right tool to start a fight. it is just common sense. 🙂 ”

    my dear ex-pat from tate. umbrella will give you some protection in certain situation, but unfortunately not that time. several bulky young men and you use your umbrella??? where is the common sense in that. not so common after all pala. 😉

  33. baycas

    Latest volley from one of the protagonists in the Valley Golf mess:

    http://abs-cbnnews.com/nation/01/09/09/pangandaman-files-libel-raps-vs-de-la-paz-over-blog

    http://www.unlawyer.net/?p=1599

    Wanted: Another peace panel member

  34. leytenian

    istambay,

    my point was, it was not the dela paz who started the fight. many blogs commenter said that the dela paz poke the mayor with his umbrella. I don’t think the umbrella can be admissible as the tool used by the suspect. it is admissible for as a tool for self defense. don’t you think? 🙂

  35. baycas

    are sure you are a golfer??? let us take away pangandamans from the equation and a golf course is still a dangerous place on it’s own! have you heard of people getting hit by golf balls and one should always be alert when someone yells “fore!” ? a golf course is a beautiful place indeed but dangerous as well! but let us not stray from the point that mr dela paz is not as faultless as most may think he is. not only he managed to got the shit beat out of him he also place his own son and daughter in harms way.

    Hmmm…never tag along a non-golfer 8-year-old on a golf course.

  36. istambay_sakalye

    sec.pangandaman deserves to fired from DAR and so do the majority of gma’s cabinet gang for being incompetent and corrupt but will it ever happen? i don’t think so. this valley golf beating, yeah beating not brawl, is just a side show!

    just look at (in)juctice gonazalez, berating the PDEA agent for doing his job and exposing corruption in the (in)justice dept.!
    suntok sa buwan na kusang magresign o ma-fire out ni gma ang mga pangandamans at ang mga tage cabinete!

  37. from lanao

    baycas,

    On Pangandaman files libel raps vs De la Paz over blog.

    if the mayor will sue for libel then the whole Philippines will never stop making hate blogs against him. If he will do that then he will be subject to more libelous materials over the internet. It will never stop. He made many people so angry. let him sue and will see where he will end up. matigas talaga ang ulo nang gago. tingnan natin.

    hindi ba niya kilala ang mga pilipino?

  38. istambay_sakalye

    “Hmmm…never tag along a non-golfer 8-year-old on a golf course.”

    were you expecting some form or shape of intelligence from the pangandamans? your kidding right? told you common sense was not that common to either side! but one person got the beating for his lack of common sense though and got his kids in harms way too.

  39. from lanao

    send the mayor to jail. suspend the DAR secretary. the rest of the corrupts will have its turn. this topic is about the pangandamans.

  40. leytenian

    the dela paz exercise their golf etiquette and was annoyed by the mayor, not knowing that the mayor can invoke danger. this is not about common sense. this is about insult to one’s pride. now that is common sense 🙂

  41. istambay_sakalye

    now pride, is that one of those seven deadly sins catholics are being taught to stay away from because it can lead you to your downfall? ha! it is, it is! and guess what pride brought mr. dela paz? he should have taught his kids humility instead! eh. what is that common sense again?

  42. istambay_sakalye

    leytenian, have you read that book titled “don’t sweat small stuff’ ? i think you should and mr. dela paz too. there is one chapter that talks about being right but it is worth all the trouble? the author also said that if it won’t matter 2-5 years from now just let it go! maybe just maybe mr. dela paz should have just practiced common sense instead.

  43. leytenian

    istambay,

    i think it might be mr dela paz children who motivated the father to get annoyed. on bambee’s blog, she clearly highlighted that the mayor did not ask permission to play through. sometimes the children can cause the dad in trouble. look at the mayor pangandaman, he can cause the suspension of his father. worst, their political reputation, credibility and public integrity. it’s not common sense to for any public officials to get into something that may ruin their career reputation.

    on the family of dela paz, its normal for the father to make the children happy on Pace of Play and confront the mayor why he played through. now that’s common sense 🙂

    and besides, the children are more believable than the 27 year old. don’t you think ?

  44. leytenian

    istambay,

    it’s not small stuff when the SR DAR beg the public to top blogging.

    it may be small to you but you are talking to me 🙂 it just common sense.

  45. leytenian

    istambay,

    in fairness to you, i’m not really focus on dela paz small mindedness as you say so. i am more focus on the conduct and ethical behavior of public official. Just connect all those small pieces together so that you will find the big stuff.

    this case is highly political and can be cultural. it spread like wildfire across the internet. it’s sensational.

  46. istambay_sakalye

    leytenian, if what you say is true that it was the dela paz kids that got their father all worked up then he deserved the beating twice over. he is supposed to be the role model. bring able to explain it to his kids that there is a proper way to deal with certain situation. a father who gets in trouble because he wants to make his kids happy deserves it twice over!

    again while we are at this spirited discussion, it is a given that either side’s version will biased to each own version as none of us were there and we have only hearsay and bambee’s account is of course has to be treated as biased version. let me point out one detail from the pangandamans’ version of events where in they claimed that the dela paz’s kids, teeing off while the pangandamans’ group were still in fairway! now any golfer knows how dangerous that is. it’s a very big no no. you can actually kill somebody! IF that is true, then mr. dela paz committed a golf mortal sin.

  47. bw

    If you’re 15 mins late and your flight had teed off why can’t you join your buddies on the 3rd hole ??? Sure you missed 2 holes and didn’t get you money’s worth but why will the flight behind you get offended ?? Huh ? You’ve paid for your green fee, you missed two holes yeah but you want to play and you were registered anyways. WTF is wrong with catching up ?? Why will you not allow the dude to catch up when the flight can still take two players to form a foursome ?

    For those who haven’t played golf ever, this will sound huh – WTF are you talking about ??? I think it is important to understand how the game is played to figure out who did what , if someone broke the rules and what caused them to strangle each other.
    That is what I meant and I didn’t intend to diss anyone, when I said we have to appreciate the game to get a better prespective of this brouhaha. Yes? No? Mwhe?

    For someone to say, no flight must pass me because it annoys me, it gives the impression I’m slow and what not, it disses me – I got news for you. Maybe you should stop playing the game because golf isn’t for pricks and uptight jerks who thinks the wind have to be at acertain mph, the sun to be at a certain angle and the birds must stop chirping when he hits the golf ball. Play with people and have fun even with octogenarians who can no longer control their fart. Let people go through, get through people, smile, say hello. Unless you’re driving 300+ yards and scoring 65 in which case you should be in the PGA tour, there’s no reason for you to act like you own the frigging golf course, duh 🙁

  48. istambay_sakalye

    hey, you can make as a big of a deal if you want! if you still don’t get it that is cultural (i’m not sure if that is the right term) for a filipino government official to beat the shit out of somebody who gets in their way then you’re been away from pinas for too long. again, i am not saying it is right and we just have to accept it as norm, but at the moment it is the reality here, for a while, and if somebody claims that it is not then i might just be living on the wrong part of pinas. and i am not from mindanao. i do have relatives who have lived with our muslim brothers peacefully for decades.

    and it is not just our muslim brothers, our fellow christian brothers in government are no better too. i don’t know what is it being in government has a way of altering ones personality and thinking that other people seem to be at their mercy! harsh reality that i hope we can change. for one it would be very prudent and wise to chose your battle with them. 😉

  49. leytenian

    istambay,

    pangandamans’ version of events where in they claimed that the dela paz’s kids, teeing off while the pangandamans’ group were still in fairway! now any golfer knows how dangerous that is.

    that’s not relevant. the case was not about someone got hit with a golf ball.
    but to be fair , your statement can be used in the court of law as attempted battery but it is very difficult to prove because there was no physical injury. kung may bukol ang ulo nang mayor, then the case will be on his favor
    but it turns out to be the opposite.

    we don’t know if that statement is true therefore it is weak.

  50. istambay_sakalye

    unless you are tiger woods or phil mickelson and the likes then golf should be a relaxing sports. beatutiful greens and the smell of freshly watered and cut grass is so relaxing. just watch out for the stray golf balls! otherwise relax and take a nice stroll across the greens. 🙂

    but again, here in pinas. some of the country club member tend to look down on people they’ve just seen for the first time in THEIR country club. they give you that stare and asked the staff who you are and he is a member here? very typical of pinoy attitude!

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