Impunity
December 28, 2008 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
(Free Press editorial cartoon from the 1920s.)
Gentility is supposed to permeate places like country clubs and golf courses. They are the places where the hoi polloi are kept out and where everyone else can see and be seen. When someone like Bambee dela Paz and her family collide with official thugs, the collision isn’t just physical, it’s cultural. The set of rules that keeps the plebs in their place is never supposed to intrude into places where gentility matters.
But power, which relies on armed might to enforce obedience and simulate public respect, by it’s very nature isn’t genteel, can never be civil, will always ride roughshod over others.
I fully sympathize with dela Paz, her father, and her brother: bravo to her for raising hell and bravo to all those who’ve taken up her call for there to be consequences for what happened to them.
There is an irony here, of course: several, actually.
One irony is that gentility is the last thing that really matters in the supposed enclaves of the middle and upper classes, where the old days of black balling potential members because they were scandalous or generally socially unsavory individuals has long disappeared and been replaced by the sort of entitlement culture where mere possession of wealth or influence (the two are joined at the hip like Siamese twins) trumps all other considerations (how obtained and how used?) is what matters.
Another irony is that this incident could only have happened in the national capital, where an altercation in one place can safely be reported by someone when they get home: the metropolis is vast enough for you to be able to get away with blowing the whistle, everyone has kinship ties extended enough, at least among the middle and upper classes, to neutralize those belonging to those with whom you’ve collided.
There is a reason rallies tend to take place in national capitals; there is a reason a young lady can go and blog and have people rally to her cause in sympathy, both expecting something to be done and not having to think through whether the call and rallying to that call will have fatal consequences. It is the existence of a civic culture which is still powerful enough to compel limits on official impunity.
So we have here a clear clash of civilizations: between the entitlement and warlord culture of the provinces, which compels obedience by force, and which doesn’t hesitate to use that force to compel submission by anyone who isn’t part of the ruling clan’s pecking order of enforcers; and the national capital culture which expects self-control of officialdom, which doesn’t think twice about standing up to official bullying; which, even if beaten to a pulp thinks it’s possible to rally support from like-minded people who actually believe in justice and notions of equality -because there are more decent people than the bad.
Still another irony is that People Power is now being mobilized -its first stirrings being the sharing of officially embarrassing news, the stoking of popular outrage, the expression of public opinion, the coming together of a constituency mobilized by shared values- among the sort of people who’d shrugged off so many other acts of official impunity. There is a lesson here somewhere: and it’s a simple one. Impunity eventually sows the seeds of its own destruction. There will always come a time when a line will be crossed, and it’s a line too far.
Which is not to say that this incident will cause a revolution; but it is proof of how reality will always intrude into even the politest of conversations.
The coming year is going to be a showdown, of sorts, between the exponents of the culture of impunity, from the President to her allies on the official and local level. It is a showdown between those who furiously resent a political culture where public opinion matters, where impunity is challenged, and where privilege is supposed to be something subjected to questioning.
In Resistance isn’t futile, I mentioned just one way I oppose impunity: by blowing my horn at official convoys. This holiday season, I had the satisfaction of doing so, to the president’s convoy itself, twice. The second time around, the President passed within spitting distance and the PSG actually craned their necks to get a view at whoever was committing this act of lese majeste. They genuinely seemed startled. I myself was startled to see that the President no longer uses license plate No. 1 on her car. Her limousine has no license plate, at all.
My point is we see this impunity all the time, in small ways, and shrug it off -oddly enough, in the same manner we shrug off the big, spectacular, cases of impunity, too- when we ought to start tying it all together.
And their project next year is to basically abolish public opinion; to reduce it to its component local parts, where public opinion has been muted, and where it can be treated in such a way and such a manner as to be beyond questioning, court cases, heckling, letters to the editor or blog entries demanding resignations: because the trump card of an official when it comes to the provinces is the message every bodyguard represents: you can run, but you can’t hide.
Wait till the Nasser Pangandamans of this country are both members of parliament and ministers of state, ruling over Federal states where their writ is literally and not just figuratively, the law.
You’ve seen what has been unfolding over the past few years and what is out to entrench itself over the first quarter of this year.
The danger is to confuse the forest for the trees. We are susceptible to doing this: shrieking over Estrada’s threatening to run for office, while overlooking the President who cynically released him with a pardon; twisting Cory Aquino’s comments out of all recognition while overlooking how truly mistaken everyone was, to think the President would be a stateswoman and not a thug in skirts; wringing our hands over Mar Roxas’s cussing when no government since martial law has so thoroughly justified cussing because of it’s crossing every line, written or not, expected of officialdom; placing traffic and corporate premiums over public demonstrations of outrage; venomously scorning Jun Lozada while overlooking the officials who wanted him rubbed out and who very nearly managed to do it.
The Japanese had a chance to be welcomed to the Philippines, as they were in many other parts of Asia, as liberating heroes, except they proceeded to slap Filipinos who refused to bow to them; and so, resistance was immediately sparked, even among those disillusioned with the Allied cause. Again, I’m not saying this appalling incident will accomplish anything more than inspire horrified tut-tutting over how tasteless, and ungentlemanly, the President’s official family is. But you never know.
Postscript:
The incident seems destined to get bogged down in Court. Court is appropriate for determining the monentary compensation due the ones beaten up. The Court of Public Opinion is where this ought to be settled politically, and the political solution is twofold: the resignation of the Secretary of Agrarian Reform or his being fired if he refuses to quit; and the suspension of the Secretary’s son, the mayor, immediately. And if those currently angry really want to do something, then they belong to the circles of our society that can effectively embark on a campaign of social ostracism against not just Secretary-father and mayor-son, but, so long as no Executive action is taken, then against the entire official family of the President. This includes the children of officials who drive No. 8 cars to school, at any official beyond the handful mandated by Executive Order as entitled to official escorts, to officials who have more than one bodyguard, and so on.
Officials have quit or been made to resign elsewhere for much less.
Good reads: see Of Golf, the Internet and Elites, and We haven’t really gone anywhere and Piyudal
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With Great Power Comes Great IRresponsibility? « Here’s to Life! on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 1:52 pm
[...] Impunity by Manolo Quezon [...]
Mayor Nasser Pangandaman Jr. (DAR chief’s son) Mauled A Father & Son at Valley Golf and Country Club | A Filipina Mom Blogger on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 1:53 pm
[...] Impunity by Manolo Quezon [...]
On A Nightmare at a Golf Course: A Cynical Worldview | Filipino Voices on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 2:14 pm
[...] MLQ3 in Impunity asks, Are we confusing the forest for the trees? The danger is to confuse the forest for the trees. [...]
Rocky on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 2:45 pm
Reading your article makes me want to buy a car and drive by Malacañang (honk! honk!)
This is a great article. .
Pedestrian Observer GB on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 2:50 pm
I just saw the guy’s portrait here….. and Chyt says he looks better…..
Madonna on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 2:54 pm
Nemo me impune lacessit
“THE thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge. You, who so well know the nature of my soul, will not suppose, however, that I gave utterance to a threat. AT LENGTH I would be avenged; this was a point definitively settled — but the very definitiveness with which it was resolved precluded the idea of risk. I must not only punish, but punish with impunity. A wrong is unredressed when retribution overtakes its redresser. It is equally unredressed when the avenger fails to make himself felt as such to him who has done the wrong…”
cvj on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 3:08 pm
To the Filipino Middle Class, impunity can be tolerated as long as it does not happen to a fellow member of the Middle Class. That explains the muted reactions to the disappearance of Leftists (Burgos, Empeno etc.). OTOH, we in the Middle consider Bambee de la Paz as one of our own, enough to make the ‘Let’s Move On’ crowd identify with her family’s predicament.
Pinoy Life At Large » Pangandaman and son display bad behavior on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 4:06 pm
[...] way things are going, I don’t see much public outrage over the matter, perhaps except for the bloggers who totally sympathize with Bambee. I would really love to see the “wheels of justice” [...]
BrianB on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 4:36 pm
Manolo, the way they go about it now, I see no cause here except a personal one. The friends seem vengeful, too. Bodyguards of politicians and non-politicians has always been a problem. Something should be done, generally speaking. Has a bodyguard the right to point a gun at an unarmed civilian?
BrianB on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 5:17 pm
“Wait till the Nasser Pangandamans of this country are both members of parliament and ministers of state, ruling over Federal states where their writ is literally and not just figuratively, the law.”
You’re not a Federalist now, are you?
kaminaman on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 5:35 pm
I lived apathetiically, oblivious of the Hello Garci, the wanton disregard for decency of the politicians during the impeachment proceedings in Congress, the puking ZTE deal, the try on the life of a whilstleblower the Joc-joc zarzuela, etc etc.
Why shoud i be moved by this Valley Golf affair?
The World has Always Been Crazy, We Just Don’t Notice It: Mayor Beats Up 56 Year Old Man and 14 Year Old Boy » Noisy, Noisy Man | Your daily dose of retard | funny website on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 6:03 pm
[...] Impunity by Manuel Quezon III [...]
Bert on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 8:24 pm
“Why shoud i be moved by this Valley Golf affair?”
Because the next victim will be you!
Starshadow Rivaulx on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 9:05 pm
@Madonna: nice reference to Poe’s “Cask of Amontillado” – though immuring the perps alive beneath a brick wall? Hah…not if the human rights activists have their way.
@ the general public: Myself, I grew up in the era of the political private armies. When anyone – especially a politician with access to armed people – points at a teenager and yells “Tatandaan kita!”…my freak-o-meter starts clanging.
The last time someone in our family heard that phrase from a provincial politician, he had to lie very low for quite a bit. That or go six feet under.
kaminaman on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 10:13 pm
Bert
“Because the next victim will be you!”
Typical middle class hopeless romantic.
Anyway, you miss my point. ENTIRELY.
kaminaman on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 10:18 pm
My previous comment was nothing but a damnation of the attitude of most of the country’s citizens.
Those who are far see the beauty of the mountain but those who lived in the valley failed to.
mindanaoan on Sun, 28th Dec 2008 11:02 pm
oh no! not another benign0!
Blog Addicts » Golf mauling sparks blog outrage on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 12:07 am
[...] Quezon III wrote a scathing commentary where he relates the incident to the warlord culture in the [...]
urDaysRnumbered on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 12:47 am
Just a while ago, I read that the Pangandamans are filing counter-charges. Gumanti lang daw sila. Well, sino’ng lolokohin nyo? Pusta ko i-ba-bribe o tatakutin lang yung mga testigo sa country club. Mga bloggers, dito na lang tayo gumanti. May araw din yang mga yan. I hope this Secretary gets sacked! But, I doubt it. The case is peanuts. The higher-ups have done far worse than this. Well, I just hope the heavens hear the cries of the abused citizens. I do admire the French in what they did to the royalties during the French Revolution. In more recent times, I envy how the Argentinians spat at their politicos and so-called public servants when they abused their authority and caused their economy to collapse.
ARA on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 12:48 am
There is a thread in Pinoy Exchange where someone defends the Pangandamans…saying the De la Paz people started it all… see this link
http://pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377412
vic on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 1:39 am
Whatever happened, shame on you Pangandamans, maybe you have the dough (don’t know how you got it?), but you have no class and do not deserve membership in a country club, but I guess in the philippines money is everything., too bad.
leytenian on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 2:44 am
a characteristic of a third world country where people are managed by public officials lacking ethics, good moral character, professionalism, sincerity and respect.
Mandated continuing Education and seminars of 24 hours /per year for all public officials to remind them that Such Code of Conduct exist in our Constitution. And that they have the utmost responsibility to implement such conduct in public office.
Education starts with the role models not the people who cannot afford to attend.
This country has a long way to go. The disease is too chronic. This requires prevention of progression. This is not about Gloria. This is Philippines.
leytenian on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 2:54 am
“The Court of Public Opinion is where this ought to be settled politically, and the political solution is twofold: the resignation of the Secretary of Agrarian Reform or his being fired if he refuses to quit; and the suspension of the Secretary’s son, the mayor, immediately.” postcript
This is what Rule of Law is all about. It’s the time that Justice Courts in our country must build its credibility and integrity. It has to lift its standards of PRACTICE.
liyam on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 2:58 am
ARA: the one who was defending the Pangandamans doesn’t even have a good defense, he’s just pushing about the idea where Pangandamans are a Moro/Muslim family who does not back out in a fight or like they’re ready to die for whatsoever.
A typical barbaric-minded guy I should say.
Mayor Nasser Pangandaman Jr. (son of DAR Chief) in Mauling Golfers in Antipolo : The D Spot on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 3:22 am
[...] Impunity by Manolo Quezon [...]
Mayor Nasser Pangandaman Jr. (son of DAR Chief) in Mauling Golfers in Antipolo : The D Spot on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 3:22 am
[...] Impunity by Manolo Quezon [...]
Allan on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 3:27 am
If the Mindanao Muslims dont back out of fights why do they have to resort to ambushes and treachery in their fights. To me they are just a bunch of cowards. I just wonder what the situation would have been if the dela Paz group numbers to 10-15 bulky men instead of a 56 and 14 years old.
Captain Canuck on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 3:57 am
I guess in the Philippines we don’t care about the rights of people whether they are rick or poor . If you have power and lots of money , you are untouchable. We , Filipinos , are proud people and yet so stupid . The poor will follow the rich and the rich takes advantage of the same poor people . Paulit-ulit lang . Just about everyone goes to church or ask for forgiveness for their past sins and yet the next day they are doing the same shit . I pray for all of you and hope to live in peace . Someday a great leader will come and will bring us justice .
ken on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 4:17 am
this is terrible. i admire bambee dela paz for having the courage to post this on the internet. i think it’s great that this is being talked about. that’s the first step to finding out the truth. now now, let’s not get carried away and make hasty judgments. none of us were there. and we haven’t heard the side of the mayor yet. although personally, i believe that this is reason enough to put the mayor on trial, at the very least.
Next drama please! | reyna elena dot com on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 4:26 am
[...] MLQ3 writes: [...]
maximo on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 4:48 am
it’s too bad that an old man got beat up by a big shot politician. however, i find it hard to believe that anyone would beat up anybody for no particular reason. there’s two sides to every story and we’ve only heard one side, so i’m sure that the big shot politician has his story. whatever the reason, be it being disrespect because he is from the province and not because the old man didn’t know that he is a big time politician, it’s not enough to beat the living crap out of anybody.
kaminaman on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 6:59 am
I heard the interview with the mayor over dzXL.
He narrated how the de paz (father) berated him and how his two sons hurt him.
Based on his narration, it was actually the de la paz that threw their weight around and started the confrontation.
Come to think of it. He could be telling the truth.
ANYWAY. LET US PUT THAT INCIDENT IN THE PAST and “move on.”
IF WE CAN FORGET AND FORGIVE THE NUMEROUS POLITICAL SCANDALS AND CORRUPTIONS IN THE COUNTRY, it will be easier to put that personal fight between two golf enthusiasts.
MOVE ON, MOVE ON, MOVE ON.
Pilipinoparin on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 7:35 am
See, it is just starting to unravel the whole incident and this poster started the the nonsense ” USUAL MOVE ON” response of pathetic crowd!
Just wondering, this golf course is teaming with rich people and surely hundreds if not all of them have cell phones with cameras or even videos, why is it there’s nothing posted in the you tube?
Pilipinoparin on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 7:43 am
As usual, no one will resign, voluntarily, no one will be forced to resign, those who beat up the Dad and son will surely fight it out tooth and nail…unless the de la Paz clan has a bigger Ninong. Well, maybe something will come up, this is already in the net after all.
Ronald del Rosario on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 7:44 am
Would you still agree to the old man who said that the Philippines was better even if it is “ran like hell by Filipinos”?
kaminaman on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 8:03 am
A FATHER AND HER DAUGHTER WERE KILLED MISTAKENLY DUING AN ENCOUNTER BY POLICEMEN AND ROBBERERS. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO-CALLED MIDDLE CLASS .
TWO COEDS FROM UP WERE ABDUCTED AND UP TO NOW STILL MISSING. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A MOTHER HELPLESSLY LOOKING FOR HER MISSING SON SUSPECTEDLY ABDUCTED BY SOME ELEMENTS IN THE MILITARY. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A POLITICIAN CALLED UP A COMELEC COMMISSIONER TO FIX THE ELECTION RESULT. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A GOVERNMENT EMPLOYE ALMOST RUBBED OUT BECAUSE OF HIS KNOWLEDGE OVER THE BOTCHED ZTE-NBN DEAL. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A HIGH RANKING GOVERMENT OFFICIAL OPENLY OFFERING 200 MILLION TO ANOTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
and so on and so forth. why should we show our outrage to this very personal fight between the de la paz and pangandaman families.
AWAY NILA YUN. move on, move on, move on.
Pilipinoparin on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 8:17 am
kaminaman, you don’t grasp the implications of the whole incident to Filipino culture and politics as a whole, its implications to the elected officials, to the supposed to be gentile golfers, etc. Please think!
Pilipinoparin on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 8:23 am
ronald, just like most Filipinos and foreigners, you forgot the more important second part of the statement of MLQ…..BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT!
This has been emphasized by MLQ3 in several of his articles. Is seems no one is listening. Some people prefer to remember the “bad” part of the statement. Why? Maybe they feel that “naisahan nila si MLQ!”.
Ka Fredo on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 8:39 am
@ kaminaman , very well said.
ang nakita ko lang pagkakaiba ng pangyayaring ito sa mga sinabi mo ang kawalan ng pulitika sa “away” na to. kaya tinatangkilik sa ngayun, at ang lakas ng loob ng mismong biktima para ilabas ang mga pangyayari laban sa isang pamilya ng mga pulitiko at may kapit.
Shimvita on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 9:16 am
Dear Manuel
Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Shimvita from Iligan City who works as a nurse here in Cagayan de Oro. During my college days in Xavier University during the early 90’s, I happen to have a classmate named Hussein Pangandaman a Muslim who studied in this Jesuit school but wrecked havoc to all by poking guns at classmates, threatening teachers and would be the in the local news involving prostitutes, arms dealing and even aleegations of drugs.
He happen to have a brother named J.R Pangandaman , the Nasser Pangandaman Jr. the notorious name we all know by now by now.
They together with their cousins would roam the streets of Iligan and CDO throwing their weight around and wala silang sinasanto. News even surfaced that during PAL flights to Manila and back to Mindanao, they are known to threaten airport officials and cabin crew, even boasting not even Gloria Arroyo can stop them.
Thats how bad and worst they are that a mention of their name would immediately illicit disgust and fear among listeners.
Hussein Pangandaman even had his steady girlfriend Irish Barria impregnated but immediatly after she was pregnant, dumped her like a worthless 5 centavo coin.
The brothers whimps is obviously being tolerated by their parents and even made JR the Mayor of this sleepy muslim town of 5 thousand inhabitants composed of poor relatives by paying them 1 thousand pesos each to win. This is common knowledge here that JR Pangandaman being Mayor at age 26 would justify his lust for crime. Even women are not spared coz maski mga babae ay binubogbog nila. A check with police archives of CDO and Iligan will reveal a pandoras box of these disgusting revelations.
If you really sympathize with the De la Paz’s, I urge u to ask other bloggers as well to encourage people who have been victimized by the pangandamans to come forward to soildify in pursuing the crime commited.
A piece of warning to eveyone if you happen to meet a dark looking chinese looking guys by the name of JR and Hussein Pangandaman… BEWARE you will be the next victim.
Hope they are pressured to resign and a justice will prevail to benefit all Filipinos!
Shimvita
kaminaman on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 9:22 am
PILIPINOPARIN
“kaminaman, you don’t grasp the implications of the whole incident to Filipino culture and politics as a whole, its implications to the elected officials, to the supposed to be gentile golfers, etc. Please think!”
OK. I WILL WAIT IF REALLY THERE WILL BE IMPLICATIONS. ( filipino culture and politics )
FOR YOUR “PLS THINK!’ COMMENT.
NO COMMENT YET. I AM STILL TRYING TO THINK.
ilaga ng luzon on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:04 am
ban the pangandamans on any golf course period!!!!! void their membership as well, if any.
kaminaman on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:17 am
I HAVE PARDONED, NAY CONDONED, THE MOST DISHONEST, CORRUPT AND HYPOCRITE REGIME.
I WILL NOT FIND IT HARD TO CONDONE THE PANGANDAMANS.
I JUST WANT TO MOVE ON.
MOVE ON. MOVE ON. MOVE ON… TO CHA CHA
missingpoints on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:41 am
Pilipinoparin: You’re missing kaminaman’s point.
mindanaoan on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:48 am
to the anti-gloria people, this is gloria’s fault. to benign0-types this is proof of rotten filipino culture. to mindanaoans this is ‘molecular’ abusiveness. a bet muslims will see it as prejudice.
what is interesting here is the new angle of powerful molecule versus bloggers. the usual ending to these stories is the little ant getting squashed. unless you are a dragon, a kuratong or you have three truckloads of bodyguards, steer clear of these people. i hope the anonymous and communicative blogosphere proves to be a redoubt against organized thugs.
Randy on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 11:18 am
It’s just a 14 year old boy…. what are they thinking
Christoph on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 11:30 am
Bukod sa pagkangitngit sa mga pulitikong abusado ay di ba nakakangitngit din ang mga taong kung makapagsalita ay akala mu kung sinu silang magaling at pinapangaralan ang mga bloggers na katulad natin at mga Pilipino sa mga baluktot nilang paniniwala?
- – - – - –
A FATHER AND HER DAUGHTER WERE KILLED MISTAKENLY DUING AN ENCOUNTER BY POLICEMEN AND ROBBERERS. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO-CALLED MIDDLE CLASS .
TWO COEDS FROM UP WERE ABDUCTED AND UP TO NOW STILL MISSING. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A MOTHER HELPLESSLY LOOKING FOR HER MISSING SON SUSPECTEDLY ABDUCTED BY SOME ELEMENTS IN THE MILITARY. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A POLITICIAN CALLED UP A COMELEC COMMISSIONER TO FIX THE ELECTION RESULT. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A GOVERNMENT EMPLOYE ALMOST RUBBED OUT BECAUSE OF HIS KNOWLEDGE OVER THE BOTCHED ZTE-NBN DEAL. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
A HIGH RANKING GOVERMENT OFFICIAL OPENLY OFFERING 200 MILLION TO ANOTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL. NO OUTRAGE FROM THE SO CALLED MIDDLE CLASS.
and so on and so forth. why should we show our outrage to this very personal fight between the de la paz and pangandaman families.
AWAY NILA YUN. move on, move on, move on.
- – - – - –
kaminaman (or more likely “ikaw nga lang at mga alipores ninyong baluktot”) why do you keep on comparing the severity and weights of various incidents and injustice to one another? Kung ganyan ganayn din lang pag-iisip mu eh di sana wala ng Andres Bonifacio, Jose Rizal, Tandang Sora at libo pa nating mga bayani na ipinaglaban at sumuporta laban sa mga taong umabuso sa kanilang kapangyarihan at mga mamayang Pilipino. Kung gagayahin ng mga naunang Pilipino ang pag-iisip mo malamang ay maramin pang namatay sa pamamahala ng mga prayle nuong panahon ng Kastila, mas marami pang hinalay at nilapastangang Pilipino nuong panahaon ng Hapon dahil katulad mu iniisip nila na “ayus lang yun, move on! nahalay ang nany ko, napatay ang kapatid ko, kelangang magpatuloy”… without seeking justice?
Oo kabilang ako sa middle class society, di ako kasing “dunong mo” sa paggamit ng mga metaporya at malalalim na banyagang idiyoma para lang laitin ang pagtuligsa sa pananaw mu. Kaya ka nga sinabihang mag-isip kasi nagpapakapilosopo ka eh simple lang naman eh… katarungan ang hanap para sa mga naagrabyado.
Move on? Move on? ba? Ikaw mag move on… dami naming nagkumento dito na naghahanap ng hustisya laban sa mga pulitikong inaabuso ang kapangyarihan tapos ikaw move on? It’s either pakawala ka ng ng mga Pangandawanan, kapamilya o may kalapit na pulitikong abusado, ikaw mismo abusadong pulitiko o talagng manhid lang sa mga pangyayari at pinipilit na walang insidente ang mas bibigat pa sa isa?
Please don’t give me that “Tou completely don’t get my point”? Huh? Anu bang namiss out ko? At mga idioma in English o mga tipong “ang latang walang laman maingay” dahil ikaw ang naunang mag-ingay, inubos mu mga laman ng lata namin kaya tinatapatan ka namin. Ikaw ba sumuot ba sa kamulatan mu ang sinasabi namin dito? Oh sarado pa din ang utak mung balikrot?
hayley on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 11:31 am
to kaminaman,
pre kaw naman. alam naman natin ur part of a counter propaganda operation alam namin san ka at ano ginagawa mo at mga kasama mo. patuloy mo lang yan makikita mo din sa darating na panahon paano mo binenta kaluluwa mo.
wag na mag atubili sumagot sa mensaheng ito at di ko babasahin sagot mo.
para sa bayan!
mlq3 on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 12:21 pm
ronald, i agree. i think you would too, if you took the time to understand the construction of the sentence. this piece might help you out: http://emanila.com/philippines/2008/12/10/quezon-was-right/
mlq3 on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 12:22 pm
i deleted the comments calling for exterminating ethnic groups.
mlq3 on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 12:30 pm
shimvita, are there any blog entries or press reports on line that could help point to the behavior you outlined above?
leytenian on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 12:30 pm
trial jury would send this mayor to jail. the father as an accomplice would cost him his job. these people are not acceptable anymore. Right in the open and in the golf course. I don’t get it anymore. A 26 year old mayor with bodyguards? versus 14 year old boy, an elderly man and a young girl, what’s wrong Philippines?
Dream Catcher on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 1:45 pm
what happened should not be disregarded and seeking justice is the only option. consider yourselves so fortunate to be a part of the middle class as most of them relates, as shown here, importantly, acting and helping accordingly. i myself recently was mauled by 4 individuals, whereby, apparently the key ring leader belongs to an influential family that have interests in media and part owner of a well known radio station.
i spent almost 5 days in hospital and needs not less than 30 days to recuperate.
as they say who am i? they can get away with it as they say. no middle class noise/help behind me. in fact, the police never lift a single finger despite i able to run for help, blood running down my face literally.
as i said consider yourself lucky as you have the middle class crowd. but how about the likes of me? the rest of us/them?
bakit po tahimik kayo pag ang biktima hindi ninyo kauri?
i used to believe that being simple and peaceful can make the difference and somehow inspire change but as they or i learned the hard way, it can never be. for the sole reason this type of individuals respects no other things but guns and power.
presently, i have 4 armed and well trained bodyguards and a lawyer on call. yes they did a critical mistake of judging and voilently discriminating me, thinking im just a worthless meaningless low life individual, a lower class for them. that can’t fight back.
where are the middle class ideologues? nasaan na po kayo?
do we have to resort to armed struggle? bloody revolution?
or a civil war is needed to cleanse our damaged culture/society?
or just maybe a cultural if not a religious war?
make no mistake im more than willing to be a major player for such a stuggle.
Jon on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 2:29 pm
This case is a chilling threat to all. What if the next victim is you, or a loved one?
However, my belief is that the majority will still think “it’s not going to happen to me”. Even Bambi in her blog herself expressed the same thought. But happen it did!
I don’t believe that ordinary Pinoys don’t care about what happened, it’s just that they care less (they care more about what’s going to be on the dinner table next). As for middle class people who thinks of Bambi and her family as one of their own care a little bit more about this case.
Bambi and Bino are golfers who carried the Philippine flag when they played. They’re certainly more high profile than most of us.
o. on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 2:39 pm
to kaminaman.
ok. how about this?
magpasapak ka muna sa aming lahat.
tapos mag move on tayo.
Allan on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 3:38 pm
Let’s email to the board of the Valley Golf and Country Club to cooperate with the police (see. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/metro/view/20081229-180482/Cops-frustrated-over-golf-clubs-silence) and shed light on the issue (and asked them why the didn’t help the Dela Pazes).
Their website: http://www.valleygolf.com.ph/
Their email: info@valleygolf.com.ph
The distinguished board: membershttp://www.valleygolf.com.ph/temp/board.asp
Madonna on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 3:38 pm
as i said consider yourself lucky as you have the middle class crowd. but how about the likes of me? the rest of us/them?
bakit po tahimik kayo pag ang biktima hindi ninyo kauri?
where are the middle class ideologues? nasaan na po kayo?..” — DreamCatcher
DreamCatcher,
Apparently our kind is too busy making a living and surviving, much like the rest of the masa. We have grown tired of pursuing romantic political ideas that never panned out.
Apparently, YOU have much more in common with de la Paz family than we do. See, the true middle class doesn’t really go gallivanting in golf courses… except for real business — rarely, for R n R (take note, Bambi de la Paz wrote than she has been “a golfer all her life”).
We take injuries (and we have loads of them, more than your kind will ever know, that never go written in blogs or reported in the media) with a grain of salt…and we dig our heels even though, these injuries pile up — opps, we certainly cannot afford to get a few bodyguards and a lawyer on-call to secure ourselves; we focus on sense, rather than sensibilities (we needed and we need to). And we don’t allow ourselves to get insulted… over “small” matters such as “golf etiquette”. This is not to say that the middle class does not place importance on “manners” — just saying, that in real life, we cannot afford to raise hell over “etiquette” — if we do, it’s usually choosing survival over it. Apparently, for the de la Paz family, they could afford to raise hell. Or could they still really?
“do we have to resort to armed struggle? bloody revolution?
or a civil war is needed to cleanse our damaged culture/society?
or just maybe a cultural if not a religious war?
make no mistake im more than willing to be a major player for such a stuggle.”
Tsk. How cliched these questions are. For decades, the middle class and the lower classes have let themselves be goaded (or manipulated) into such “romantic” pursuits while the conservative, sensibility-oriented upper classes were merely content in calibrating the power dynamics in this country. So sad but true, but the calibrating has failed (i.e. since 2005) — proof that real power has fled into the hands of the likes of Nasser Pangandaman and the traitors to your kind like the Mike and Gloria Arroyos.
In other words, DreamCatcher — you are barking at the wrong tree.
PhilwoSpEditor on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 4:07 pm
Madonna,
I especially liked the quote from the Cask of Amontillado by Edgar Allan Poe. We will have our day we bury those hoodlums under bricks of stone, as they weep, begging us to spare them.
Everyone else,
Is there a way we could monitor the case, besides the Media? Give it a week or two, everything gets piled up. Sigh.
By the way, flipping an official’s convoy is fun, since I don’t have a car yet. *But I want to use car horns too…*
DreamCatcher,
We need to make a living too. We’re tired of Popular Uprisings already. We were part of the Forces from Edsa1 and a good chunk of mobilizing forces in EDSA 2… The Middle Class needs to live, especially now that the Financial Crisis is affecting everyone of us…
DarkAngel on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 4:26 pm
linisin natin ang boung pinas, kung kailangan natin paahimikin pati kapitbahay natin,bakit hindi… the only way para maka move on tayo eh dapat katayin ang may maitim na budhi…..
erase ‘em all
BrianB on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 4:34 pm
kaminaman should reveal himself. I like this parody he’s making. Very… well, to the point.
BrianB on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 5:03 pm
madonna, stop reading Poe. He’s the worst overwriter. I only realized this mga 7 years ago. He’s a bad influence to us, too.
@golf course
People stop hating anything and everything about the pangandaman. Hindi pa natin alam ang lahat. There is a possibility the dela Pazes started it. Quite likely really. They hear probinsyano accent, they get pissed.
I’m not saying these pols should get away, I’m saying invest your anger on areas that will actually STICK. I keep telling you, it not the beating up itself, its the use of bodyguards.
Dahil umiyak lang si bambee sa camera di ibig sabihin tama na ang pamilya nya. Pano kung sila pala talaga ang naunang maging violent. Mas Malaki sila. Pandak lang ang mga Pangandaman. This isn’t ellentordessillas blog. I was hoping we’d be more reasonable.
I was really hoping we could use this to take the bodyguard threat off. Manolo mentioned he honks his horn at the president’s car. Eh what if tinutukan sya ng armalite? Nangyayari mga ganito, eh.
pinoyapache on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 5:54 pm
I detest in the strongest word possible these overkill. I’m sure this so-called Mayor Nasser Pangandaman Jr. doesn’t have the guts to square off with even the 14-year old Bino dela Paz. How COWARDLY this mayor hiding behind his phalanx of security guards. I’d say he better wear a skirt if he can’t show to us that he’s man enough to stand on his ground. I spit on you!!!
Jon on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 6:05 pm
Brianb, kung ang mga de la paz nga ang nag-umpisa, bakit hanggang club house meron pang gulo? Di ba tapos na sana sa Tee house?
On the other hand, if it were the Pangandamans who were really at fault, what do we expect the punishment should be? Manolo already touched on this, and I agree. What they’ve done is none punishable by electric chair, but it doesn’t look good for public officials to lose their cool in public.
Jon on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 6:08 pm
Kahit wala ako doon sa golf course, I would think that it was the Pangandamans who were at fault. The De la paz kids are world class junior golfers, violence is not in their vocabulary.
In the two versions of this incident, I would give more credence to Bambi’s account.
BrianB on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 6:16 pm
Just don’t invest your anger on IFs, is my point. I’m not the prosecutor, you know.
Jon on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 6:21 pm
Sure BrianB, but I can’t be happy with things like this. Bloggers who share the same sentiment can’t be blamed for feeling so, right?
Let’s wait and see what ordinary people on the street say (and feel) about this. I’m waiting for videos/interviews…
Randy on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 6:22 pm
Let our friends and people in the world know that management of “Valley Golf and Country Club” will not help them when trouble happened on their property.
mindanaoan on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 6:30 pm
shimvita, i asked someone to check iligan police archive for nasser pangandaman and the result is ‘no record’
KamotBalls on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 7:51 pm
Who give’s a rats ass if the middle class are being reactionary towards the incident? Any reaction is better than none at all. And to those little leftists who rant about “no one cried when journalists were killed”, get it into your puny marxist-leninist-maoist heads that people will almost always be reactionary in nature. I dont give a crap if you people think the middle class are just being whiny, selfish bastards. I’m more interested in the social experiment that will take place. The details and ideologies behind it dont matter, only its effects do. Kinda hoping for vigilantes or serial killers to cause some trouble in this country. Chaos would be great. Lots of people talk about change, or doing something different. Why not put a bullet into a politician’s head? It would send shock waves to this country. Nearly all democracies of the modern age went through a phase of blood and carnage, like the great terror of the French Revolution. What we need is anarchy, vendetta, chaos.
The EQualizer on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 9:10 pm
The EQ “No Brainer “Test:Who will eventually be blamed for the golf brawl?
1)The 56 year old dad and his 14 year old son
2)Nasser Jr. and his bodyguards
3)The probe body will find the De La Paz family (56 year-old dad and 14 year-old son) and Nasser Jr. and bodyguards EQUALLY GUILTY.
4)”It didn’t happen at all” (no witnesses!)
Bert on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 9:37 pm
“to the anti-gloria people, this is gloria’s fault. ”
to the pro-gloria people, this is the opposition’s fault, heheh.
He Who Had Too Much Sense of Entitlement | Prudence and Madness on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 9:53 pm
[...] Impunity by Manolo Quezon [...]
Madonna on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:23 pm
BrianB,
With all due respect, you can’t tell me who I should not read or read. Just because I quoted E.A. Poe doesn’t mean that I really dig him. LOL — in fact, the Cask of Amontillado is the only short story by him that I like — most esp. the first para — it’s perhaps one of the best opening lines. Err, bad influence, you say — after all we’ve gone through as a people — you think the ghoulish-inclined Poe is dangerous? Dangerous to whom? I find that downright funny, if not ridiculous — coming from you.
Bert on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:23 pm
“We will have our day we bury those hoodlums under bricks of stone, as they weep, begging us to spare them.”
Or, better yet…cut their heads off using a rusty gillette blade while they wriggle, begging us to spare them, lol.
Prudence on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:28 pm
The Pangandamans should know better, even IF somehow it was de la Paz who started the fight. They are government officials. They should not have, in the first place, beaten up a 14-year old (even if the Pangandamans would claim the boy cursed them). Doon pa lang, maling-mali na.
BrianB on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:36 pm
madonna, in writing, a bad influence. Overwriter but to us pinoys he sounds really good, right?
BrianB on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:43 pm
Repost from FV from one brianna asal:
“Below is a true and actual narration of the incident that happened last December 26, 2008 at the Valley Golf Club, Antipolo, Rizal.
On December 26, 2008 at around 11:00am, our group composed of Rene Maglanque, Sec. Nasser Panagandaman, Arnel Estacio and Atty. Faisal Abdullah registered to play with the Valley Golf on the first (1st) flight of our group. The second (2nd) flight was composed of Hussein Pangandaman, Adnan Pacasum, Nasser Pangandaman, Jr. and Farah Locsin. We also registered the eight year old son of Hussein named Angelo Pangandaman whom they cannot leave behind the clubhouse as there will be no one to take care of him.
Nasser Pangandaman, Jr. and Farah Locsin were late. They caught up with their flight (2nd) at hole no. 4 accompanied by a marshall and their caddies riding on two golf carts and in the process overtaking the flight of Mr. Delfin de la Paz who reacted by protesting what seems to be an overtaking of flight. Nasser Jr. explained to the elder De la Paz that they will just catch up and join their flight mates at hole no. 4. He further explained that they, who like them, had earlier lined up to play and were pre-registered. With the said explanation, del Paz replied “Okey, kortesiya lang.â€
When the 2nd flight of Nasser Jr. already played hole no. 4 which is a par 3 and Nasser Jr. was still outside of the green trying to pitch his ball into the green, the flight of dela Paz hit their shots into the green which almost hit Hussein without shouting “Fore!â€. Surprised, though sensing trouble which they deemed to choose to avoid, they allowed the other Dela Paz player to hit his shot so they can peacefully resume and concentrate on their playing. At this point, the caddy of Nasser Jr also took the 8 year old Angelo to stay behind the golf cart to avoid being hit by golf balls coming from the dela Paz players.
On the next hole which is hole no. 5, after the 2nd Pangandaman flight hit their drives into the fairway and before they could hit their second shots, again the dela Paz players hit their drives without warning by shouting “foreâ€! the 2nd Pangandaman flight puzzled and surprised asked themselves why the flight behind them were doing this to them since they could be hit by their golf balls. One caddy even said, “Ano ba yun?â€
When the 2nd flight reached the green of hole no. 5 and after holing out, they joined the 1st flight of Sec. Pangandaman and took their snacks. While doing so, the marshall approached and told Nasser Jr. that the dela Paz’s were complaining why they were 5 of them in their group and why they overtook their flight. Nasser Jr. reiterated to the marshall what he explained to the elder dela Paz, which his knowledge the former already accepted his explanation.
Later, unconvinced even after the marshall relayed to him that there were only four (4) and not five (5) in their flight, and that they were not overtaking as they just had to go back to the clubhouse and later join their flight.
The elder dela Paz came and approached Nasser Jr. already agitated and pointing saying, “Mali ka! There were two carts in your flight and you overtook us!†Nasser Jr. answered, “Akala ko po, Sir, nagkaintindihan na ho tayo kaninaâ€.
Explaining about them not overtaking yet elder dela Paz was not convinced , and at the top of his voice said, “Putang ina ka! Member ka ba dito, ha?, Hindi mo ba ako kilala?â€
Nasser Jr. patiently and respectfully explained again to him their side, even using “po†and “Sir†– as a sign of respect without revealing that he is the Mayor of Masiu, Lanao del Sur, and replied, “Bakit po kayo sumisigaw? Hindi po tayo nag-aawayâ€.
The elder dela Paz reacted, “Ikaw ang naghahanap ng away!â€, while pulling his umbrella and thrusted the pointed part and hit the belly of Nasser Jr., while the latter was backing up.
The marshall tried to intervene but the elder Dino dela Paz pressed on which prompted and led Hussein to defend his brother. Dela Paz punched Hussein and they engaged in a fist fight.
Meantine, Nasser Jr., prevented the two (2) younger dela Paz from joining the fight by saying, “Awat na, Awat naâ€. but they got away from him and went in between their father and Hussein. The two young dela Paz was able to hold Hussein preventing him to reach the elder dela Paz as if “umaawatâ€. Yet, Bino Lorenzo dela Paz kept punching Hussein in the face and Marie dela Paz from behind kept on scratching his face.
In one instance, the elder Dino dela Paz took hold of a golf club driver and tried to hit Hussein. But, Rene Maglanque was able to get hold of the driver’s shaft and took it away from him.
Later on, Sec. Pangandaman, Rene Maglanque, and another golfer from another flight pacified everybody and asked the dela Paz’s to just leave them to prevent further trouble. Delfin dela Paz called someone in his cellphone and we heard him say, “Punta kayo ditto! May away kami!â€
The dela Paz’s left. And, after about ten minutes, our group also discontinued playing and went back to the clubhouse. When Hussein was hurrying up to the bathroom to relieve himself and wash his wounds, the elder Dino dela Paz accosted him and warned him in a threatening voice, “Ikaw mag-ingat ka! Hindi pa tayo tapos! Gagantihan kita!â€
Blocking is way to the locker room, Hussein replied, “Hindi ka pa ba umaalis? Sumusobra ka naâ€, the young Bino Lorenzo went in the middle saying, “Huwag po, fourteen years old lang akoâ€, and yet having his fist ready to give him a punch.
Hence, Hussein defended himself and the three engaged in another fist fight. Maridel dela Paz came from behind Hussein and started scratching Hussein on the right cheek, the neck, and ear, while pulling and tearing his shirt.
Immediately after, they were prevented from further engaging in a fist fight by those present in the clubhouse, the security and other golfers. But the elder dela Paz still shouted “Gaganti ako. Hindi pa tayo tapos.â€
The rest of the dela Paz family arrived, with the eldest son carrying a baseball bat. The wife in “duster†with a bladed weapon in hand, as if ready to assault Hussein. They were likewise prevented by the clubhouse security and other golfers present.
At this point, Sec. Pangandaman told his sons to leave already and the dela Paz’s to stop and leave, so that no more untoward incident would happen. Soon, we also left but we had to leave through the parking exit because the dela Paz family was waiting for us at the clubhouse lobby”
BrianB on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:47 pm
link:
http://www.filipinovoices.com/of-political-arrogance-a-nightmare-at-a-golf-course#comment-25278
Madonna on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 10:57 pm
BrianB,
Oh, I see, so this is a matter of bad writing and good writing — accord. to you (in your first statement). I had thought that you were merely irritated with the use of Poe’s material.
Opps, apparently not only that… because
As to your question — I don’t know, you tell me since I can’t speak for the whole Pinoy nation (I spoke as a member of the middle class in response to DreamCatcher). I didn’t say that “he [Poe] sounds good to us pinoys”, did I?
BrianB on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 11:03 pm
Maybe I was just talking about myself.
mindanaoan on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 11:30 pm
BrianB, what malarkey! can you believe that? one man, a boy, and a girl can gang up on only one man, when there are three or four other men, his companions, around? what father wil endanger his children that way? f*king unbelievable!
anthony scalia on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 11:45 pm
Madonna,
“Fall of the House of Usher” is by EA Poe right? I enjoyed its movie adaptation
anthony scalia on Mon, 29th Dec 2008 11:55 pm
Ronald del Rosario :
“Would you still agree to the old man who said that the Philippines was better even if it is “ran like hell by Filipinosâ€?”
if i remember my history right, that old man never said the country was better if it is “ran like hell by Filipinosâ€. what he said was he preferred a Philippines run like hell by Filipinos to a Philippines run like heaven by Americans.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 12:04 am
scalia, it’s about having pride that, tragically, we never got too.
cvj on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 12:07 am
kainaman, i appreciate your point, but the reality is that this episode is a middle-class friendly controversy. no dangerous ideology to threaten their way of life (unlike Burgos, for example). the heroes/heroines come in neat, innocent packagesn (unlike Jun Lozada who is damaged goods). the villains are Muslims and politicos. Sense of proportion aside, anything that wakes them from apathy is good practice, i guess.
mlq3 on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 1:27 am
i don’t like this talk of mass slaughter and if this continues i will be compeled to delete such messages. there are very few rules i insist on, and no death threats is one of them.
DarkAngel on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 1:55 am
BrianB :
scalia, it’s about having pride that, tragically, we never got too.
Yeah, too bad. Too much pride ended up beating a 14 yr old kid. Hmmmm is that the same pride you want to instill to your kids. If they beat the old man thats good for them, its like Pacman beating Dela hoya. Whether they like it or not, the actions simply reflects how narrow minded politicos they are. Or maybe too much PRIDE covered half of their brain, disallowing a thorough sizing up of their sorroundings before doin their act of violence. It could be that, the boy is too big for them to think that he is only 14 or maybe its really their way of handling things on their estate.
Kawawa naman yung bata but mas naaawa ako kay mayor at sa tropa nya kasi ang hirap din naman mag isip paano lumusot sa ganitong sitwasyon. Akalain mo CabSec pa naman father nun, so ang hirap din. Kayo din kaya ang ilagay sa posisyon ni mayor?ano kaya sa pakiramdam nyo? may posisyon na iniingatan, may career na kailangang pagandahin. abah mahirap din yun. hahanap pa sila ng mga state prosecutors na babayaran ng 50M tulad ng ALABANG BOYS.
abah, mahirap din kaya mag isip. Lalo nat ang isip eh pabalagbag. abah……..
Bert on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 2:00 am
My apology to Manolo, and to all. That was no death threat, just a tongue-in-cheek-trying-hard witty response to a post. I am sorry.
Carl on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 5:26 am
Trying to make this incident into a national symbol for outrage is overreaching.
From what I’ve read so far, it was an altercation between uncouth probinsyanos and stuck-up, indolent city slickers. It may strike a chord with some touchy middle class folk, but it’s “par for the course” for the rest of the Filipino nation. After all, the Filipino priveleged class has treated the rest of the Filipinos like shit for so many decades.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 6:16 am
“i don’t like this talk of mass slaughter and if this continues i will be compeled to delete such messages. there are very few rules i insist on, and no death threats is one of them.”
Mass slaughter… ha ha ha. Too funny.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 6:17 am
darkangel, the comment has to do with Quezon’s statement about Filipinos running pinas like hell.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 6:28 am
“BrianB, what malarkey! can you believe that? one man, a boy, and a girl can gang up on only one man, when there are three or four other men, his companions, around? what father wil endanger his children that way? f*king unbelievable!”
Mindanaoan, think about it. Some men are braver when in situations that they see won’t result into violence. It was a golf course and yes he had kids with him. Who would’ve thunk? I have a personal experience that compares. The man was a balding short guy. He was with his wife and three kids, one of whom was a baby in a trolley. How the men went at me, geez! Tapang tapang. He even poked me with his forefinger several times. I doubt if he would even so much as lift his eyes if he was alone.
Yeah, I couldn’t do anything with his family around. This happened in a mall, though.
vic perez on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 6:45 am
‘en campos de batalla, luchando con delirio’ so the Pangandaman’s thought their golf course was.
hope the de la paz’s won’t apologize in the years to come.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 8:36 am
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473744,00.html
I pity the pols,almost. “Pinoy pugilists”? Ya haha. They still hung over dela Hoya’s defeat, methinks.
PhilwoSpEditor on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 9:02 am
BrianB,
The article you posted is another side of the story. I need to see the version from the point of view of the club management. It’s impartial to me, compared to the two sides.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 9:22 am
philwo, that was just a curiosity, probably from the pangandaman PR people or their lawyer. Some girl commenting at FV posted it. I wonder how she got hold of a copy.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 9:24 am
http://delfindjmontano.blogspot.com/2008/12/crazy.html
Brian Gorrell finally! Now we got a genuine fighter of the pinoy oppressed.
Arrogance on Naked Display on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 9:48 am
[...] their way into traffic. Irate motorists frequently retaliate by not giving in, or in the case of Manolo, honk their horns in anger at the passing [...]
PhilwoSpEditor on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:07 am
Brian B,
Ok. Thanks for the clarification. It kinda makes a bit of the story part from Bambie’s mix a bit, but where was the gun pointed part? I’m already pissed at the club management for being shut in the case.
Pedestrian Observer GB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:31 am
If all else fail which I hope not but past experience tells us that under the Garcified presidency miracles do happen, here is a stress reliever for golfers so they can whack (not literally so don’t get any bad idea, lol)a mayor BULLY while improving ones’ golf skills.
Jon on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:41 am
DAR sec already apologized not for what has happened or his role or what his sons have done, but just that it happened! That’s legal speak for not admitting guilt, right?
While people are being swayed to sleep until another controversy comes, counter prop (like what Brian has posted) is executed. This tells me that the Pangandamans are not going to take the attacks sitting down. They’re not going to back down either.
sleek on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:20 am
it’s on fox news. more international coverage is coming.
justice league on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:22 am
BrainB,
“I have a personal experience that compares. The man was a balding short guy. He was with his wife and three kids, one of whom was a baby in a trolley. How the men went at me, geez! Tapang tapang. He even poked me with his forefinger several times. I doubt if he would even so much as lift his eyes if he was alone.
Yeah, I couldn’t do anything with his family around. This happened in a mall, though.”
Yup. I feel for you.
But if his 2 other kids were that large ; his “bravery” against your implied lonesome needs no further elaboration.
justice league on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:24 am
Ooops Sorry BrianB about misspelling.
mindanaoan on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:31 am
BrianB, if you were alone when you were accosted, that’s a different story. the pangandamans have male companions. if two others step in to make their presence felt, i can’t believe the father won’t shoo his children away, if he realy wants to fight. the story is unbelievable.
Boom on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:34 am
Philippine Daily Inquirer is MINIMIZING DAMAGE for the sick-Sec by calling it a “Brawl” instead of the truthful “Maul.”
According to the article someone in Pangandaman’s group was hit with “an umbrella.” Then the sick-Sec let his goons at the businessman and his family.
HOW CAN THAT BE A “BRAWL?”
Inquirer is doing a cheap cleansing job.
SPREAD THE WORD!
Noel on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:37 am
May I just say that maybe the root of the evil so to speak is our penchant to always not commit to something as right or wrong. There is always that gray zone, a murky realm where the light of day and truth is easily dispensed with. Is there a separate set of right and wrong when we talk of the elite and the hoi polloi? Why do we have to imply that there are different sets of standards here. What am I saying? Its fact that society has not really taken good care of people who “do not have it” (that is an understatement) and you know what they say, a boomerang always comes back. When that happens, we blog it and complain about it. Imagine the rightful anguish of the poor who are not only deprived of material goods but of dignity as well, their inability to be heard. Incidents like this golf club mauling only happens because sometime in the past we were silent when the same perpetrators were allowed to get away with worse simply because the victims were inconsequential hoi polloi and not the cream of society who are able to indulge in golf games and the like. The best way to prevent this and make something of our country is that we treat each person equally, with inalienable rights as human beings to be accorded dignity. Otherwise this will not be the last and it will just go on and on and we would be going nowhere fast. The true test of a rule is if it will do justice to society. We must remember that this kind of incident dehumanizes not just the parties but everyone concerned if we turn a blind eye and ear to the cries for justice.
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:59 am
The FV comment BrianB posted is now the official statement of the Pangandaman group.
A story for the stupids. Bodyguards not immobilizing attackers of their VIPs armed with umbrellas and driver clubs. A secretary’s son who has just figured in a fight enters the locker room sans bodyguards. An unknown golfer telling a club VIP “hindi ba ninyo ako kilala?” A resbak team with a man brandishing a baseball bat and a woman with a bladed weapon? The Father, Bino and Bambee ganging up on Hussein while the rest of the Pandangaman’s group just watched – all eleven of them!
Who wrote this, Bunye?
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 12:01 pm
That’s what you get for “listening to the other side”.
justice league on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 12:19 pm
Carl,
So now it’s a rural vs urban thing.
But how could you miss the part of one side being public officials?
Haven’t you read that part yet?
But if you are referring to the Pangandamans as the privileged class treating the De la Pazs as shit like the Pangandamans would treat the rest of the Filipinos; there wouldn’t even be a handful here who would disagree with you.
And BrianB’s own comment of “Something should be done, generally speaking” in his Dec. 28, 4:36 pm post should appropriately address your issue there.
And though it wouldn’t exculpate the Pangandamans for what they “supposedly” did, if however you are lumping the Dela Pazs as members of the privileged class themselves who treat the rest of the Filipinos like shit; maybe its best if you provide certain instances of the Dela Pazs acting as such so we can judge it for ourselves.
Pedestrian Observer GB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 2:18 pm
My apologies for reposting this, I have to delete the original and repost it the links somehow screwed the post….
If all else fail which I hope not but past experience tells us that under the Garcified presidency miracles do happen, here is a stress reliever for golfers so they can whack (not literally so don’t get any bad idea, lol) a mayor BULLY while improving ones’ golf skills.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 3:20 pm
justice league,
typo. Just one adult male there, him. His kids were too young for anything, like 2 years apart they all were. I suppose the pangandamans had no medico legal confirmation of violence related injuries.
I’m sorry to say the larger angle here is already a ship that’s sailed. Nakakatakot pag ganito especially pag masyado ng insecure mga pols natin. Bodyguards would shoot first and ask questions later in times of extreme political unrest. Think about it. With GMA gunning for an extension, and Erap perhaps running again with vengeance in mind? We need a specific law to keep public spaces safe from pol bodyguards… this is my original argument.
The EQualizer on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 8:44 pm
In your opinion,how can you help Gloria become a good President in 2009?
Join the EQ poll:
http://mav-equalizer.blogspot.com/
justice league on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:08 pm
BrianB,
My dad visited a few hours ago, he just loves cuddling his grandchild. I got reminded of a far ago incident that we are fortunately able to laugh at now.
My dad and I had just finished eating at an eatery when some guy was going up to the cashier.
As I was on my way out, my dad suddenly pulled me back and held my head against his chest and even shut my eyes with his hands and told me SHHHHHh…….
It was so fast. Later my Dad told me that the place was robbed by men with guns and that an accomplice was about to block my way out. He was the one scared for both of us since I couldn’t see anything while the accomplice continued to look at our direction.
At a time before cellphones, fortunately they were only interested in the eatery’s earnings.
On our way home, my dad told me in the vernacular, “Son, if they harmed you in any way; you’d likely be mourning for me right now”.
Understanding my Dad, I told him “Dad, if they did that to you, Mom, ate and kuya would be mourning for both of us”.
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
Your personal story; as incomplete as it was, reads a lot better the first time.
But now it is apparent that the guy cannot expect much help from his 3 kids in a physical altercation.
So that just leaves the wife.
Obviously, you will now have to contend that the wife is of such size or physical prowess that the short balding guy can expect help from her should things go awry between you two. So how large is she?
I guess its about time you complete your personal story.
What did you do or what happened that a short balding guy who wouldn’t even dare lift his eyes towards you if he was alone is now willing to fight it out because his family of 3 small kids and a wife happens to be there?
First, they didn’t shoot (in this case).
2) As I read Bambee’s blog, the bodyguards did draw their guns. But she didn’t intimate (at least not in that story) that they pointed those guns at them. There doesn’t seem to be much story on the bodyguards anywhere. Much of what she says is that flightmates of Pangandaman and friends did the beating.
There was a video once and I think it involved Jiggy Manicad of Channel 7. He went to an outpost that contained some American servicemen in Mindanao back then and the Americans told him to stay where he was. He however continued to proceed and the serviceman drew his gun and placed it belly high and held it with both hands.
Jiggy was aghast and started to say towards the camera that he was being threatened. The serviceman however said that he just placed his sidearm in the “ready position” and kept saying that when Jiggy kept saying that he was being threatened.
Eventually Jiggy and his crew went away.
The older Pangandaman is a cabinet official. Likely those guards came from the PNP or the AFP.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the investigation to find out what the bodyguards did.
As such; I have little idea what specific law you want regarding bodyguards of politicians in public spaces.
Papichulo168 on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:16 pm
Who cares who started it? The important thing is we have in front of us a real telenovela where a cruel Mayor of small town throws his weight around and beats up a kid and his old father as the pretty daughter watches.
It’s almost too predictable what will happen next in this real life telenovela as the equally evil father of this evil mayor mobilizes all his political and financial resources to manipulate the truth. And if that doesn’t work, the antagonists can just eliminate the protagonists in a Romy Diaz-like albeit less creative way beginning with death threats and ending with a one way scuba trip to the bottom of Lanao Lake (or bloody family picnic on the grassy ravines of Antipolo).
The only difference though is the “bida” in this unravelling real life telenovela is US. The caped crusader to rescue the poor family is the collective public opinion watching this telenovela unfold.
Carl on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:17 pm
There is absolutely no doubt that the De la Paz’s belong to the priveleged class.
How many Filipinos can be members of the country club set?
How many Filipinos can have the whole family play an indolent sport like golf, which not only takes up precious time, but involves large expenses like buying golf clubs, the proper attire, green fees, caddy fees, membership dues and, in most cases, shares in the golf club amounting to millions of pesos, etc., etc.?
And, inasmuch as some people make sweeping generalizations about the abusive attitude of public officials or the barbarity of Muslims, it can also be argued that members of the country club set are a bunch of loud-mouthed braggarts who feel a sense of entltlement within the confines of their territory, i.e. the country club. Visit any country club or golf club, there is no shortage of “mayabang” types.
Papichulo168 on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:21 pm
“The only difference though is the “bida†in this unravelling real life telenovela is US.”
US as in “we”. Not the United States. Hehe.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:31 pm
justiceleague, very minor thing, and actually nothing. I just asked his eldest son who was tentative about taking a table if he was indeed taking it. I did not in any way raise my voice or touch the kid. I bowed a little and ask him if the seat was theirs. The rest of the family was comfortably seating on another table quite farther off than where the son was sitting-leaving. It wasn’t too complicated to remember but that’s about it. I believe I wanted the table because it had a good view of the mall where I was waiting for someone. Very trivial, no? I dunno, maybe he knew me or something, who knows? Never intimated anything to me other than invectives. His aggression was very impersonal, just pure aggression. I was about five inches taller. Maybe there was something wrong in his head.
The other curious thing about the golf course incident is that if there were bodyguards involved then why did the mayor had to get involved. Usually, the case is the bodyguards do the beating and the bodyguards go to jai, an even more horrible predicament for the dela pazes. That’s why we need new laws.
justice league on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:40 pm
Carl,
Will you be providing specific instances regarding the Dela Pazs or will you be ending it here?
justice league on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:45 pm
BrianB,
Can’t say. Maybe he does.
This will be a rather personal question and I don’t want to imply any wrongdoing and I will understand if you refuse to answer; but are you gay?
mindanaoan on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 10:52 pm
what? leave it to the bodyguards to enjoy the mauling? that’s why they’re paying for bodyguards, so they can enjoy the mauling!
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:00 pm
No. Is it relevant to the story? You mean a gay man talking to his son? Sheesh. i find that hard to believe. I don’t dress gay and I don’t talk like a gay man. My assessment of the guy is this: he’s the sort that one bullies in high school. In fact, he would be mistaken for a gay man quite often. He’s the nerdy type, the type na wala talagang maikakasa sa suntukan. I don’t want to beat this thing into a pulp (pun intended), but I had to cite an example because it seems to me people expect all men to act logically and with their family’s safety in mind during these situations. In fact, they don’t. They expect other people to be the gentleman. That’s my point. He probably didn’t expect the violence to escalate, which made him bold.
Carl, mukhang hindi mayaman ang pamilya.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:02 pm
More assessment. The man, I believe, had very little experience in violence. He never engaged in fist fights. Parang inexperience sa mga situations na pwedeng mag-escalate into something awful. He just had no idea when to stop. I was already leaving, he still kept shouting, unprovoked. Unjust vexation definitely.
BrianB on Tue, 30th Dec 2008 11:06 pm
Good timing this story:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28430359/
Awful. Fathers don’t have the parental extinct by nature. They have to learn it.
vic on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 12:42 am
BrianB:Wait till the Nasser Pangandamans of this country are both members of parliament and ministers of state, ruling over Federal states where their writ is literally and not just figuratively, the law.â€
BrianB, Am I looking at Afghanistan where every Province or Region has its warlord and the Central Government has only dominion over the Capital Kabul? possibility? now the pass the seeds for the heroin and marijuana, and we will be the biggest exporter of these renewable oils.
mlq3 on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 12:45 am
Bert, much appreciated. by all means, blow off steam and vent, just so we’re all on the same page that i don’t endorse and no one here is calling for murder.
anyway, this thing is going viral:
http://karlokoloko.multiply.com/journal/item/37/My_Contribution_to_Society
BrianB on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 12:52 am
Hasn’t gone viral. Before I started the highest was 16k, which means bvery few have played. I just got the perfect score btw… 101,5++
Vic, wrong quote, not by me.
BrianB on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 12:53 am
now 111k.
BrianB on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 12:57 am
153,438. Beat that. Ok, I’m out of here. Happy new year!
Chronicles of Hole No. 6 | Paolo Mendoza on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 1:03 am
[...] Manolo Quezon missed his iced tea and wrote a telling: this is the type of incident that proves the prevalence of a coercion culture in rural areas, and that more incidents like this would be expected if political families such as the Pangandaman’s are granted the road to power through the Charter Change (Cha Cha) route. He postscripts: The incident seems destined to get bogged down in Court. Court is appropriate for determining the monentary compensation due the ones beaten up. The Court of Public Opinion is where this ought to be settled politically, and the political solution is twofold: the resignation of the Secretary of Agrarian Reform or his being fired if he refuses to quit; and the suspension of the Secretary’s son, the mayor, immediately. And if those currently angry really want to do something, then they belong to the circles of our society that can effectively embark on a campaign of social ostracism against not just Secretary-father and mayor-son, but, so long as no Executive action is taken, then against the entire official family of the President. This includes the children of officials who drive No. 8 cars to school, at any official beyond the handful mandated by Executive Order as entitled to official escorts, to officials who have more than one bodyguard, and so on. [...]
justice league on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 1:21 am
BrianB,
Probably relevant depending on your answer. Since the answer is no, then it is definitely not.
But I don’t think you realize that your assessment of the short balding guy brings your personal story to a full circle.
So you encountered a short balding guy who you believe wouldn’t even dare lift his eyes towards you and I guess that is even if transgressions were done on him personally.
You assess that he suffered being bullied back in High School and that he is the “type na wala talagang maikakasa sa suntukan”, has very little experience in violence (except probably violence done unto him), and that he never engaged in fist fights.
And though you believe that the guy doesn’t expect the violence to escalate; you had there a family man willing to risk it.
And if you may ask for what.
For his eldest son!
You did say that you talked to his kid who was “sitting-leaving.” From where he was seating, what he probably saw was that his son got “bullied” out of a seat. And though he would probably allow such to be done unto him, he was obviously not going to allow his son to suffer the same.
You are likely right that there was something wrong in his head. Getting bulllied back in your youth can do that.
And so you see, there seems to be purpose behind his madness.
But as such; it is commendable that you took the higher road and didn’t allow it to escalate.
justice league on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 1:25 am
Ooopsss.
From where he was seated ………….
inodoro ni emilie on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 1:37 am
no manolo, federalism has nothing to do with the boorish behavior of these thugs. the pangandamans are just that:–mere “pangas” of their masters. tangna, ang sarap gawing pulutan.
Shimvita on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 1:57 am
Dear Manuel
Thank you for posting my thoughts which i feel beneficial to all freedom loving Filipinos because the facts speaks for itself.
To get straight to the point… during the early days of the Pangandamans rampage in the nighlife of cagayan de oro from 1995-2001 at its highest… records of their ghastly behavioir where indeed lodged at the respective police stations in Iligan and CDO but somehow because of their influence these would miraculously disappear from the archives….
No surprise as they were close to the ex mayors Quijano and Emano who conives with them conviniently because of business interests kaya if u check by now wala.
Sunstar and Goldstar had an article back in 98 how Hussein threw something at the guards of Xavier University but Google wasnt able to scan them.
Kaya when i heard them on national news… i was horrified to see them ressurect from a dead zombie turning into a nighmare right there in Manila.
Tingnan mo mga taga Mindanao halos wala tayong naririnig na complains kasi takot nga except for me brave enough to come here in the internet cafe just to let things out.
I chose you Manuel because i was u in ANC and your one of our more credible bloggers…..
As for that Farah Locsin eto message ko in Bisaya…. Day ayaw pag gugma na himu-on kang prinsesa kay bilat ra nimo ang kinanglan nya…
I said Farah Locsin GF ka daw according a balibalita ni JR if i were you get lost because you dont want to suffer the faith of Irish Barria (check this names on friendster and facebook) na inanakan lang ni Hussein.
If your after the money.. go ahead and suffer the consequence because u asked for it… sa pag golf nyo palang disaster na so If i were u girl get a life.
Mga classmates namin ni hussein sa XU nag meet and we were all collective in our thoughts that dapat the They should suffer for their unacceptable behavior……..
Mga Muslim na yan ina angkin ang Mindanao pero minority lang sila dito coz majority christian mga tao.
mayor nasser alam mo capable ka sa mga salita mo and hussein trademark mo yang paninipa and pananapak.
Yung mga babae na ginamit mo yung ang katapat mo sa blogs ngayon…. maski bata pinapatos nyo…. tatay nyo peace negotiator pa naman>> tskk… tskk….
Blogers Unite! May cabinet revamp ngayong 2009 so patalsikin na yang DAR secretary na yan na walang kwenta! Mga salot !
Hope the truth will prevail for the Dela Cruz’s
Thank you MLQ3
Love Shimvita
maximo on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 2:52 am
Shimvita, you naughty girl. Some of us, like me, maybe only me in this crowd, do understand Visayan (Bisayan, whatever). I always find it amusing when Tagalog speakers use the word “lagay”, which I guess means “put” or “to put”. In Visayan “lagay” means penis.
Pilipinoparin on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 3:12 am
“BrianB:Wait till the Nasser Pangandamans of this country are both members of parliament and ministers of state, ruling over Federal states where their writ is literally and not just figuratively, the law.â€
BrianB, Am I looking at Afghanistan where every Province or Region has its warlord and the Central Government has only dominion over the Capital Kabul? possibility? now the pass the seeds for the heroin and marijuana, and we will be the biggest exporter of these renewable oils.”
That’s a possibility in Federal state. Additionally, it would be a “legal army” the National Guard whose loyalty is to the state governor and not to the President or Federal government. That’s what happened in the Red River stand off, between TX and OK, and in Alabama between National Guard and the Federal Army. Battles between National Guards among states and Federal Army have been depicted in several movies. So, this situation should be debated thoroughly if they decide to adopt a Federal Form of government….the government which I think is inferior to what we have now.
Carl on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 3:19 am
Some people want to act like prosecuting lawyers, yet refuse to heed all circumstantial and corroborative proof that the De la Pazes are full-fledged members of the country-club set.
In today’s Inquirer, Delfin De la Paz is mentioned as a fishpond owner. And you can’t be a small fishpond owner and play golf all day, together with all the members of your family. Siguro naman hindi fisherman lang yung mama. The average Juan de la Cruz can hardly afford to buy fish, let alone be a fishpond owner. Besides, poor fishermen don’t have the luxury of wasting their time just hitting a ball to a hole. Much less have the whole family join in this expensive exercise.
Bambee De la Paz is a student at UConn. Aba U.S. university yan. Hindi biro magpaaral sa U.S. Kahit sabihin may golf scholarship, the incidental expenses can’t be afforded by the Juan de la Cruzes, especially those who don’t have fishponds. Besides, it would have required years of daily practice, come rain or shine, to develop skills that would qualify a person for a U.S. golf scholarship. It would take too much time and money for the average Filipino to be able to develop a junior golf champion in the family. So much so, it is inconceivable. The only regular Filipinos who make it in golf are caddies. And they do backbreaking work from a young age in order to earn their keep.
Actually, it doesn’t take a genius to see that the De la Pazes are country club types. Some people are just too desperate to make this silly incident a rallying point, tying to represent it as an assault on Everyman. People are entitled to their opinions, but this is most definitely a stretch of the imagination.
And if people want to stereotype Muslims and government officials, there is also the stereotypical country-club bumpkin.
justice league on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 3:56 am
Carl,
Since you are lumping the Dela Pazs as members of the privileged class who supposedly treats the rest of the Filipinos like shit; maybe its best if you provide certain instances of the Dela Pazs acting as such so we can judge it for ourselves.
Or are you going to be ending here with just generalities about the De la Pazs?
Your premise is that there is a stereotype regarding Muslims and government officials.
If there is indeed a stereotype of Muslims and government officials; will you be arguing that the Pangandamans do NOT deserve to be stereotyped as such?
Your other premise is that there is a stereotype country club bumpkin.
So please show instances that the De la Pazs deserve to be categorized as stereotypical country-club bumpkin other than that Delfin De la Paz is a large fish pond owner and that Bambee De la Paz is a student of a U.S. university or that the whole family plays golf all day.
jim on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 4:52 am
He who asserts his own views is not distinguished;
He who vaunts himself does not find his merit acknowledged.
The “Pangandaman ” clan is accustomed in their wicked ways, and coming to the Metropolis, they think they can raise havoc too. Everyone has his/her end and its only a matter of how. Saddam Hussein’s sons were also A-holes to the max. They thought they were untouchables too. Guess not!
Pangandaman version of the story, well, it may fly when your in your lttle hometown and almost everyone is in fear or complainant ’s are already six feet under. If it’s not going to be whitewashed with a poker-face, the victims are going to be reversed as the villain, the rage starter. What a pitiful ( DoJ) we have, greedy self centered politicians. Oh! by the way, GMA was never people-elected Pres after Erap fell nor is she now (hello Garci) a real Pres, everything was cheated,paid and or bribed for, ooppppss! SO forget Madame Pres, you don’t deserve s*#$.
BrianB on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 5:05 am
justceleague,
oh my God, you’re right. Never thought about it that way. Never really looked at the boy. My voice to him was low and avuncular, I thought, but it’s possible he felt shooed away. You’re so right.
BrianB on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 5:08 am
Again let me just correct this attribution:
————————————————————————————–
“BrianB:Wait till the Nasser Pangandamans of this country are both members of parliament and ministers of state, ruling over Federal states where their writ is literally and not just figuratively, the law.â€
————————————————————————————
Not mine, someone else’s. I’m nitpicking, yes, but author, whoever he is, should be credited.
BrianB on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 5:10 am
justiceleague, thanks, btw. Must’ve taken you a lot of time trying to fix a guy’s mind online.
The thing is, when someone’s poking a finger at you, you couldn’t really think much. Thank God I didn’t do anything though I felt humiliated.
Carl on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 8:55 am
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
The Filipino priveleged class has, in fact, treated the rest of Filipino society like shit. Otherwise, this country wouldn’t be in such a mess. Witness how the priveleged class sucked up to the colonizers, Spanish and American, in order to advance themselves at the expense of the rest. Witness how the priveleged class has myopically prevented progressive laws or measures, just to be able to control or hold sway over the economic pie.
As for the De la Pazes being of the priveleged class, the facts speak for themselves. Would they not be big fishpond owners and members of the country club set if they were not priveleged?
Obviously some people just want to split hairs. And to stretch matters beyond what they really are.
Pilipinoparin on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 9:39 am
There is no question that de la Paz belong to the privileged group. The problem here is how the members of the privileged group act with impunity, a la feudal times.
I think in the end, nothing will happen here, these privileged groups will reconcile. If not, the one with a bigger Ninong will win, de la Paz…he is from Pampanga, I think, that will weigh heavier than being in the cabinet. We know how it works now in RP, don’t we?
missingpoints on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 9:56 am
@Carl
You’re generalizing. The question is not whether they’re members of the privileged class, it’s whether they treat other people like shit. No evidence of that coming from you except the general observation that “The Filipino priveleged class has, in fact, treated the rest of Filipino society like shit. ”
justice league re: brianb: “But as such; it is commendable that you took the higher road and didn’t allow it to escalate.”
Which proves that BrianB knows how to behave in public better than the Pangandamans
If the Pangandamans were decent government officials and their bodyguards were trained properly, they would’ve done the same thing. They would’ve neutralized the threat with the minimum force necessary and they pressed the proper charges if applicable.
They’re government officials so we need to hold them to higher standards.
mlq3 on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 1:00 pm
just a note: feudalism involved both privileges rights and obligations. this isn’t a case of feudal behavior in the strict sense, it’s the brawling macho culture meets the warlord culture. if it had been a brawl between hot-headed golfers no one would give damn.
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 2:25 pm
So, we should now just forget this episode just because the victims are wealthy fish pond owners and country club types? Don’t these people deserve justice, too?
Some people’s values are awfully twisted.
justice league on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 2:35 pm
Carl,
There are none so noisy as those who talk and talk but who have nothing to say.
I’ve been re-reading your posts (yeah, I’m not blind). All you have come up so far is that the De la Pazs are entrepreneurs and do not need to rely on government money to play golf all day.
You have not come up yet with anything specific against the De la Pazs to warrant them being labelled as having “treated the rest of the Filipinos like shit”.
Your idea is like guilt by association.
Well I’ve heard the phrase “mangmang ang mga mahirap”. But I didn’t buy that then and I still don’t.
If you got anything else to sell, well we’ll see then. Who knows, it may be interesting.
But you’re in luck for a Prosperous New Year.
Seems there is at least one here willing to buy your product. You two should talk business.
Pilipinoparin,
That is always a possibility.
Isa ka pa.
If you have anything specific on Dela Paz as acting with impunity, a la feudal times; expose it already so we can judge it for ourselves.
Missingpoints,
Cheers and Happy New Year.
BrianB,
Like I stated, it’s commendable that you took the higher road.
Cheers and Happy New Year.
To all of us, may we all have a Happy and Prosperous New Year! Cheers.
DarkAngel on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 2:54 pm
(mlq3 :if it had been a brawl between hot-headed golfers no one would give damn.)
if it is indeed between two A-**les mayors or between to well capable individual who could ponder each jab and return each punch, then its ok. even it will degrade their status as public officials, its still ok. its their problem. but enjoying every punch, every blow you throw to a 14 yr old golfer,… that is something good, isnt it Mayor uhu
KG on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 6:12 pm
Happy New Year to all!
manuelbuencamino on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 8:45 pm
Carl,
Who is this “the privileged class” you hate so much?
Are those who became wealthy through hard work included in this privileged class?
Are they not allowed to enjoy and share the fruits of their labor with their family?
So they play golf, what’s wrong with that?
So they chose to join a country club, what’s wrong with that?
What’s your idea of a pasa tiempo? Is there a politically correct way to enjoy time with one’s family?
If a man owns a fishpond and it’s earning enough so he can play golf with his children, join country clubs, and send his children to school abroad and motivate them to become golf champions then more power to him.
There’s nothing wrong with becoming wealthy through hard work. Even Marx said “To each according to his abilities…etc.”
What’s with the brick on your shoulder?
Life in Gloria’s Enchanted Kingdom » What the fuck is this? on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 9:16 pm
[...] I came across thie comment below in Manolo Quezon’s recent blog post, Impunity [...]
Bert on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 10:40 pm
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!
See you next year.
Carl on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 11:20 pm
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
People have been posting very insulting generalities about Muslims, just because some Muslims may have behaved improperly. Even worse, they have made references to violence against this particular minority.
So, if people want to make sweeping statements damning Muslims, it must be pointed out that the non-Muslim Filipino middle and upper classes aren’t lilly-white and they do have their flaws that can also be damned.
PhilwoSpEditor on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 11:31 pm
Happy New Year!
[The 14 year old kid deserves justice, for the love of justice...]
mindanaoan on Wed, 31st Dec 2008 11:48 pm
happy new year mlq3!
happy new year to all!
Lurker_Lang on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 12:39 am
Happy New year!!!
Pilipinoparin on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 1:38 am
Justice,
I was referring to the mayor and cohorts as privileged group, act with impunity and like warlords in their territory ( that is based on the reports I have read, I was not a witness). Both groups are privileged, one group is acting inappropriately. The outcome in this brawl may depend on the “Ninongs” as what happens in most cases of brawls in RP, poor vs poor, poor vs rich, rich vs rich. I have little confidence in law and justice in RP, the exception is JC Puno. That’s my opinion, others may have different views.
Manigong Bagong Taon po sa lahat!
leytenian on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 2:26 am
Happy New Year Manolo and everyone..
Proost……
rego on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 2:46 am
Happy new year to Manolo and to all your readers!
kaminaman on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 7:22 am
I give this “Valley goif affair” one more week. After that. Another forgotten case.
Consdiring that it was more of a personal fight, i was amazed it hugged the net this long.
but outside the net where public opinion can really be gauged, the isssue is hardly being talked about.
When a Pasig mayor punched a radio reporter of Radio Veritas back in 1983 and caught on camera, people talked aboput the incident endlessly.
That was because the incident intertwined with the current political situation during that time.
And that is lacking in Valley golf affair.
The public cannot resonate.
missingpoints on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 10:28 am
kaminaman: “Consdiring that it was more of a personal fight, i was amazed it hugged the net this long.”
Bakasyon. Walang magawa ang mga taong nagbababad sa internet.
justice league on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 6:13 pm
Pilipinoparin,
Very well.
But you stated “There is no question that de la Paz belong to the privileged group. The problem here is how the members of the privileged group act with impunity, a la feudal times.”
If you had omitted “the”; I think I would not have reacted the way I did.
Anyway, cheers.
Kaminaman,
“When a Pasig mayor punched a radio reporter of Radio Veritas back in 1983 and caught on camera, people talked aboput the incident endlessly.”
If you are referring to Mayor Caruncho; its an election period in 1981 so I hardly remember what political situation you are referring to.
And getting caught on camera was a big factor.
Pag nga me nambatok e tinatawag namin na Mayor Caruncho nung panahon na iyon e.
There are a lot of cases/issues we should be vigilant about.
Just because it is “forgotten” doesn’t mean it is not important to everyone/anyone.
Are you aware of the UNCLOS? If you were, do you remember its importance? We just might wake up sometime this year to find out that we no longer own this or that territory.
justice league on Thu, 1st Jan 2009 7:36 pm
Kaminaman,
Btw, do you know what happened to the Caruncho case?
Salvador Reyes (the victim) executed an affidavit of desistance as he accepted Caruncho’s offer to settle it out of court!
bpga on Fri, 2nd Jan 2009 2:21 am
“Salvador Reyes (the victim) executed an affidavit of desistance as he accepted Caruncho’s offer to settle it out of court! ” justice
Kitam, adi nuun pa ganuun na ang nangyayari! Bugbugan na iyan kalilimutan din laang. Manhid na yata ang mga Filipino sa mga iba’t ibang gulu.
pulis na pogi on Fri, 2nd Jan 2009 10:15 am
here is another opinion from another blog:
So far, in the internet and news on televisions I’ve only heard dela paz side. Let’s not drop into conclusions and lets also hear the other side of the story which I myself think is much more relevant. There are many inconsistencies in dela paz’ stories that makes it even harder to believe them.
The dela Paz siblings should be banned from jungolf & all golf courses. They were a flight of two when the club prohibited it bacause it was a holiday. They went ahead & teed off + hit mulliganin hole 4 (par 3) w/o any warning when the flight of the Pangandamans was still walking to there balls to putt/pitch there 2nd shots. In hole 5 (par 4), they again teed off w/o warning when the Pangandaman players didn’t even hit their 2nd shots yet. The Pangandamans peacefully proceeded with their game. They told the club marshall that dela Paz flight can go ahead. Delfin dela paz went to Mayor Pangandaman, shouted “PI mo, hindi mo ba ako kilala, member ka ba dito?â€. dela Paz hit Mayor Pangandaman with his umbrella. The mayors older brother got the umbrella from dela Paz’ hand. dela Paz punched the Mayors brother . Bino dela Paz grabbed a golf club & hit the Mayor. The Pangandamans wanted to leave the golf club when another dela Paz group attacked the Pangandamans with bats & ice picks at the main club house. – Testimonies from witnesses will prove that dela paz clan are liars.
Mayor Nasser Pangandaman Jr. was awarded, “The Most Outstanding Mayor in RPâ€. Why will Mayor Pangandaman do something so low without being provoked? Delfin dela paz’ arrogance started the fight.
missingpoints on Fri, 2nd Jan 2009 10:38 am
The de la Pazes are stupid enough to attack a government official with armed bodyguards with ice picks at the main club house? I could understand the initial altercation but a second one, with minimal “resbak?” And how incompetent is the mayor’s security if he wasn’t whisked away immediately.
“Why will Mayor Pangandaman do something so low without being provoked?”
The point is it doesn’t matter if he was provoked or not, HE DID SOMETHING LOW, which is unbecoming of a public official. Oh, and the “outstanding mayor” thing is what we call a non sequitur.
justice league on Fri, 2nd Jan 2009 2:38 pm
Bpga,
No one died then, no one died now (at least not yet).
It is the prerogative of the victim in both cases to determine if they will proceed or not with their cases.
Do you know who supported the victim back then?
Radio Veritas (of course), the city fiscal Sergio Apostol, and the Minister of Justice. And with the Minister of Justice supporting him, it was pretty sure it was with the blessings of President Marcos. I don’t think you can get a higher padrino than that.
Yet the victim chose to accept a compromise.
Just because victims will accept “such” a compromise (given the case) sooner or later doesn’t mean that they do not need support.
Pulis na pogi,
” all of a sudden, bambee, together with her mother ”
Though its best that Bambee De la Paz answer this allegation; I don’t think Bambee De la Paz nor her mother will be the complainant here against the Pangandamans.
Unless you also believe in guilt by association which in this case of just being a De la Paz.
Well at least we can expect a medical certificate for the Pangandaman side.
Good. More findings on those medical certificates for the Pangandaman side.
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
One thing interesting about this though is that both sides are rather detailed on what the other side did but rather hedged on what their own side did.
When both versions are eventually reconciled, I think it would be a very interesting story.
justice league on Fri, 2nd Jan 2009 3:40 pm
Pulis na pogi,
Rejoinder.
If one looked at the story of Bambee De la Paz in her blog, one would surmise that her side got beaten up real bad.
Now if on the other hand one looks at the stories defending the Pangandamans like the story from you and Brianasal where you read of Hussein “washing his wounds” and Bambee “scratching Hussein on the right cheek, the neck, and ear, while pulling and tearing his shirt”; one would surmise that it is the Pangandamans that got beaten up
But only one side has shown proof lately that their side indeed got beaten up. And it is not the Pangandaman side.
As long as Hussein’s wounds are not on his knuckles , he should show those wounds already.
leytenian on Fri, 2nd Jan 2009 4:27 pm
pulis na pogi? that’s a very arrogant screen name. it would be ok if there’s substance to your recent comment but it’s lacking common sense and values.
some people are not grasping the reality that there’s a gap between Rule of Law and Human rights abuses. It’s an endemic pattern- very widespread that only the middle class can blog about it and have the courage to ight for their rights. If the middle class will stop to care , who would fight for the Human Rights in this country and influence our laws? The Middle Class may be a minority in number but the publicity will reach the very poor. The middle class can bridge that gap.
I will not rely in our police force or the Justice System. Neither has been able to establish good reputation and integrity as its foundation.
This country is not fair to many of its citizens. A continued discussions and publicity of this issue will give way to a more democratic country.
The Pangandamans had the advantage of force over that of a 14 year old, 56 year old and an 18 year old girl. It’s common sense, no sane Filipino will listen to another twist.
pulis na pogi on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 5:38 am
leytenian,
very nice comments–full of common sense and values.
some people are not grasping the reality that there’s a gap between Rule of Law and Human rights abuses. –ano raw?
———–
It’s an endemic pattern- very widespread that only the middle class can blog about it and have the courage to fight for their rights.
endemic? then wide spread? here is what mareng merriam says about endemic:
1 a: belonging or native to a particular people or country b: characteristic of or prevalent in a particular field, area, or environment
2: restricted or peculiar to a locality or region
ano ba talaga ate?
——————-
If the middle class will stop to care , who would fight for the Human Rights in this country and influence our laws?
zte, fertilizer scam, hello garci scam, northrail–saan ang middle class dito? i have yet to see them in the rallies that we attend to! puro bayarang ralyista lang ang nakikita ko sa frontlines thus have you heard any dispersal operations in quite a long period? the police simply wait for 5 PM because usually, the 200 per day payment of rallyists is only up to that time. after that, the police need not do anything: the ralyists will just go back payatas and tondo on their own! so what do the middle class care?
The Middle Class may be a minority in number but the publicity will reach the very poor. The middle class can bridge that gap. –bridge what? samar and leyte like the one built by another leytenian?
————–
I will not rely in our police force or the Justice System. Neither has been able to establish good reputation and integrity as its foundation. –neither THE LEYTENIAN
———-
This country is not fair to many of its citizens. A continued discussions and publicity of this issue will give way to a more democratic country.
The Pangandamans had the advantage of force over that of a 14 year old, 56 year old and an 18 year old girl. It’s common sense, no sane Filipino will listen to another twist.
this is your most sensible comment: you want continued discussions yet in the end you concluded that no sane filipino will listen to another twist!
very leytenian indeed!
justice league on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 9:39 am
Pulis na pogi,
You mean the same way the media didn’t prioritize Teehankee in the first Hultman vs Teehankee and also in the second Hultman vs Teehankee?
Like I stated to Kaminaman, “There are a lot of cases/issues we should be vigilant about.” , whether you give it a week or not.
leytenian on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 1:41 pm
ahhh pulis,
“after that, the police need not do anything: the ralyists will just go back payatas and tondo on their own! so what do the middle class care?”
you are still not getting it. the point that you keep blogging, you become the middle class but maybe poorer than me
hehehe
and don’t be confuse with leytenian. it’s only a name just like pulis na pogi. why do you need to tell the blogosphere that you are pogi? hahaha. onli in da pilipins, are you insecure or KSP?
leytenian on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 1:49 pm
honestly pulis, if you cannot understand the GAP, then i’m not sure if you can exercise your duty.
pulis na pogi on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 2:08 pm
haha, now the official report was out. while the de la paz defenders would like to think that it helps them, take a look at the 5th, 6th and 7th sentences:
“but based on the statement of vgcci starter marshall (mr elmer saguisa) at that time he talk already both parties, but suddenly he was not expected that argument was not settled.â€
now where did this detail first appear in the blogsphere?
answer: from the 5th and 7th paragraphs of the post of a certain brianna asal that was first posted on december 29, 2008 or three days after the incident, and i cut and paste: hahahahahaha!
paragraph 5, lines 5 and 6: “Nasser Jr. reiterated to the marshall what he explained to the elder dela Paz, which his knowledge the former already accepted his explanation.â€
paragraph 7, line 3: “Akala ko po, Sir, nagkaintindihan na ho tayo kaninaâ€.
hahahaha. credit to the blog of manuel quezon iii http://www.quezon.ph/2104/impunity-2/. i cur and paste from there.
what can bambee say now? why is this detail not in her blog? it is becoming clear now. before the fisticuffs, the pangandamans already thought that the overtaking issue was already settled! ask that marshall mr elmer saguisa!
hahahahahaha
pulis na pogi on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 3:00 pm
now, the official security incident report is now out! find it at http://midfield.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/valley-golf-guards-report-pangandaman-security-men-drew-guns-on-dela-pazes/
and guess what: take a look at lines 5, 6, and 7 and let me quote (with all the typo errors):
“but based to the statement of VGCCI marshall/ starter (mr elmer saguisa) at that time he talk already both parties but sudenly he was not expected that argument was not settled.â€
aray! now, where did this detail first appear in the blogsphere?
answer: from the post of brianna asal above, posted on the 29th of december or 3 days after the incident and i cut and paste:
paragraph 3, lines 7 and 8: With the said explanation, del Paz replied “Okey, kortesiya lang.â€
paragraph 6, lines 5 to 7: “Nasser Jr. reiterated to the marshall what he explained to the elder dela Paz, which his knowledge the former already accepted his explanation.â€
paragraph 8, lines 3 and 4: †“Akala ko po, Sir, nagkaintindihan na ho tayo kaninaâ€.
another answer: from the post of p that only appeared yesterday, or 1 week after the incident: and i cut and paste again:
paragraph 6, line 14 and 15: Thinking that things had been cleared up, Mr. dela Paz said, “Okay, kortesiya lang†(â€Okay, just seeking courtesy“) .
paragraph 8, line 8 to 12: During their break, the marshal approached Nasser Jr, stating that the dela Paz’s were complaining that there were five of them in their group and why they overtook the dela Paz flight. Nasser Jr. reiterated to the marshal what he had already explained to the elder del Paz, to which his knowledge the former had already accepted his explanation.
aray again. now why are these very telling details not in bambee’s blog? it is now clear as daylight that before the fisticuffs started, even the mashalls thought that the overtaking issue was already settled! ask mashall mr elmer saguisa!
aray! aray! aray!
ps:
and thanks to manuel quezon iii for marking my posts as spam and deleting them even before it is moderated. now, your pseudo-personality (leytenian) is commenting on my posts even if i cannot find it in the enties above! hahaha
Why the Pangandaman Issue Refuses to Die or At Least Abate » The Warrior Lawyer | Philippine Lawyer on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 4:39 pm
[...] in the public mind of the abusive politician, and how he would behave. The Free Press cartoon from the 1920’s reproduced by Manolo Quezon in his recent post “Impunity” [...]
leytenian on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 4:39 pm
pulis,
you are still not getting it. here’s a link about farmers wanting to oust DAR chief. it’s not just about bambee. the issue will connect to this issue. it may not be relevant to you but it’s about building a bigger case
http://barangayrp.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/farmers-go-online-to-oust-dar-chief/
“The DAR has never supported the farmers in their struggle. All the time that he [Pangandaman] has been there, the department has never produced good results for the farmers,†Olaes said, adding that more farmers have indicated their desire to sign the online petition.”
i don’t understand why you are siding the bad guys.
pulis na pogi on Sat, 3rd Jan 2009 4:41 pm
hello leytenian!
now my posts here are not filtered as spam? ok back to business:
i don’t pretend to be part of the middle class. have you seen the stats that more than half of policemen are living below poverty line and more than 80% do not own houses? i consider myself poor who just knows how to budget my income and prioritize things.
and don’t be confused with with pulis na pogi. it’s only a name just like leytenian. why do you need to tell the blogosphere that you are leytenian? hahaha. onli in da pilipins, are you insecured or KSP? it is too parochial1
justice league on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 1:21 am
Pulis na pogi,
“We also registered the eight year old son of Hussein named Angelo Pangandaman whom they cannot leave behind the clubhouse as there will be no one to take care of him.”
“paragraph 8, line 8 to 12: During their break, the marshal approached Nasser Jr, stating that the dela Paz’s were complaining that there were five of them in their group and why they overtook the dela Paz flight. Nasser Jr. reiterated to the marshal what he had already explained to the elder del Paz, to which his knowledge the former had already accepted his explanation. ”
If being registered means being part of a flight, there would indeed be 5 of them. Unless indicated that the 5th is not going to play golf; it would really be a bone of contention if there are supposed to be only 4 players.
If you look at the story from the Pangandaman side, it appears that the De la Pazs saw 2 adult golfers overtaking them. (Pangandaman Jr and Farah Locsin)
If it is indeed that the overtaking issue was supposed to be resolved there; that does not mean that the De la Pazs already knew that there are 5 registered names (if that should be the case).
Maybe they later found out that there are 5 registrants for one of the Pangandaman flights without knowing that the 5th is not a player so they sought to complain again.
Many people resurrect a previous complaint when they have a new complaint.
mindanaoan on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 2:06 am
i don’t understand why pulis na pogi is gloating over the fact that there was an argument before the mauling. can you use it to justify beating up a child?
bpga on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 3:24 am
“i don’t understand why pulis na pogi is gloating over the fact that there was an argument before the mauling. can you use it to justify beating up a child?”…Mindanaoan
Paano nga naman kung tiningnan ka nang pasuliling, sinita ka, binulyawan ka ? Banatan agad? Mamang guapong parak? Onli in da Pilipins.
pulis na pogi on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 6:56 am
hahaha, many posters are now posting, conveniently circumventing the fact that in hole nr 5, the official report says: “based to the statement of VGCCI marshall/ starter (mr elmer saguisa) at that time he talk already both parties but sudenly he was not expected that argument was not settled.â€
it may be in broken english but the message is clear: even the marshall thought that the initial confrontation about the overtaking issue had been settled already–after talking to BOTH parties!
now, the marshall is the police, fiscal, and lower court in the fairways. if the de la pazes do not recognize his authority, or are unhappy with his decision, they could have contested the actions of this marshall to the valley golf management, very much like you go to the CA if you are not satisfied with the judgement of the RTC.
but heck no, they went to the pangandamans directly and confronted them AGAIN, never mind the fact that the marshall had already resolved the issue! (or so the marshall thought!). hell, you don’t go to your opponent across the courtroom and blow him away if you are unhappy with the judge’s decision. there is one very apt term in the courts if you do that: “CONTEMPT OF COURT.” here, the de la pazes showed utter contempt of the fairway authority which is the marshall.
they were really looking for trouble and when they found it and had their ass kicked, they went to the media and to the blogs, crying out loud how they were “trampled upon” by a powerful and heavily armed warlord!
pulis na pogi on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 8:44 am
here is the ultimate aray for the de la pazes:
this is the post of a certain rge in pinoygolfer.com forum. he is a member since april 2007 with 595 posts to date (he is a pioneer member i supposed, as the forum started only in end of march 2007) he placed his address as valley golf, orchard, eagle ridge so i suppoed he is personally known to many others in the philippine golfing community and is a “somebody†given his access to information sources. his preliminary statement said it all.
http://www.pinoygolfer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5801&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=pangandaman&start=180
I just spent some time with the head of the fact-finding committee. He has submitted all pertinent facts to the board and leaves it to them to make the necessary decision based on all the facts. I will outline the facts to you as it was outlined to me. Rest assured that the facts were obtained from all parties involved and all witnesses at each incident site. The statements were obtained both by the valley fact-finding group and by the NBI as well. Testimonies were recorded, verified, and re-verified. Fortunately for the parties involved, there were always witnesses to give supporting statements on the events as they occurred.
i now wonder what is take of the de la pazes and their apologists on this?
pulis na pogi on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 8:45 am
for those who care to read, here is rge’s post (mabuhay si bill gates for the cut and paste technology!)
I just spent some time with the head of the fact-finding committee. He has submitted all pertinent facts to the board and leaves it to them to make the necessary decision based on all the facts. I will outline the facts to you as it was outlined to me. Rest assured that the facts were obtained from all parties involved and all witnesses at each incident site. The statements were obtained both by the valley fact-finding group and by the NBI as well. Testimonies were recorded, verified, and re-verified. Fortunately for the parties involved, there were always witnesses to give supporting statements on the events as they occurred.
I will compose the outline shortly as it will be lengthy but just to whet your appetite or get you thinking, you will be quite surprised with the findings. Let’s put it this way, the people we thought of as villains weren’t quite what they were depicted to be. and the supposed protagonists may have yet been quite as factual in their testimony as it turns out to be. Even our 14-year old isn’t as innocent and “prayerful†when all the details come out. just give me a few minutes….
In the interest of making sure that no facts might be left undisclosed, I will take it upon myself to start from the very beginning. Firstly let us start by saying that on or at about 12:40 p.m., the party of the Pangandaman’s registered at the starter’s area. They registered for 2 flights comprised of 4 individuals per flight. Unfortunately, they still had 2 members of their group that had not yet arrived, so they initially tee’d off as 2 successive threesomes. The starter and marshall were informed that the 2 individuals that had not yet arrived would just catch up with them in the fairway. On or at about 1:05 p.m. the Dela Paz group registered initially as a twosome but since this isn’t normally allowed, they registered as a 3-some even if the elder Mr. Dela Paz was not really going to play.
When the Dela Paz 3-some was playing on hole number 3, they were passed by 2 golf carts containing Mayor Pangandaman and his companion (in one cart) and the caddies being brought by one of the starter personnell. The Pangandaman’s did not ask permission to drive through because they did not want to disturb the Dela Paz’s who were in the middle of the fairway. Upon reaching the green of the 3rd hole, Mr. Dela Paz asked the caddie why the people in the cart just went through. Mayor Pangandaman who was already positioned at the 4th hole, personally informed Mr. Dela Paz that they were part of 2 foursomes. At this point, Mr. Dela Paz said “ah okay, courtesy lang namanâ€. This was verified by the caddies. Mr. Pangandaman said that he did not disturb them anymore because the player was about to hit. At this point, Mayor Pangandaman thought everything was okay so he proceeded to the 4th hole (Par 3) where his other flightmates were. In the records it says that Mr. Pangandaman was not yet even done pitching into the green when a ball landed near his 8-year old child so they immediately made sure the child was secured in the cart. ( For those unaware of the common practice at Valley Golf, on every par 3, the group behind you is signaled to hit into the green once everyone from your group is already on the green) Until you have been cleared to hit by the group ahead, you should not hit into the green. It is common sense and basic precautionary procedure.
In this particular case, we have no corroborative testimony. One set of caddies say they were given clearance, while the other say that no clearance was given as of yet when the ball/s had landed.
The Pangandaman’s claim that the same situation happened in the 5th hole (Par5). Even the caddied confirmed this. At this time, Bambee Dela Paz had called the Marshall to tell him that the flight behind them was complaining about why their pace was slow and that the cause of the delay was the 5-some in front of them. Shortly thereafter, a marshall on his motorcycle appeared and approached the Pangandaman’s and asked if they were playing as a fivesome to which the Mayor said no. “We are 2 foursomesâ€. Nonetheless, the Pangandaman’s had already agreed among themselves that they would rather the Dela Paz’s play through. The Mayor was even quoted saying to his Father. †magagaling yung mga bata at malakas pumalo, baka mabagalan sa atin†They informed the marshall that they would just let the Dela Paz group play through and the marshall informed the Mr. Dela Paz of this. ( Just as an aside, the investigative group actually asked the group behind Dela paz if indeed they had complained about the slow down and the group said that the y said no such thing to the Dela paz flight. They were not even in contact at anytime before they arrived at the tee house to see the fight and eventually help stop it) When the Delapaz group reached the green of hole 5, the caddies of the 2 kids gave them their drivers so that they would waste no time playing through. The Mayor, who at that time was sitting along with their companions, stood up to personally tell Mr. Dela Paz to play through. Caddies, and the tee house server claim that the Mayor told Dela Paz na “Mauna na ho kayo†and walked to approach Dela Paz, The response of Dela Paz was “Huwag mo akong pagtaasan ng boses†Dela Paz began to question the Mayor why they were playing as a fivesome. The Mayor said that this was not the case but Dela Paz was insisting and even said (again corroborated by the caddies) “Linoloko mo ba ako?†“Member ka ba dito, Kilala mo ba ako?†(as you can see, this question did not come from Pangandaman. In fact, in the recorded testimony, this is exactly what Pangandaman claimed delapaz had said to him and yet in Delapaz’ recorded statement, he never said that the mayor asked him †kilala mo ba ako†Completely different from when the media was already involved.
When Delapaz was posing the above question, the mayor was heard to say. “Sandali lang, hindi naman tayo nagaaway dito. Akala ko ba naayos na natin yung issue kanina sa hole 3? At about this point Delapaz closed his umbrella and then poked the mayor on his stomach using the pointed end ( some caddies say Dela Paz swung the umbrella and some say that he poked the Mayor) The investigative board asked Dela Paz what he did, he said that he poked the Mayor in self defense. When asked who was attacking him, Dela Paz said that he was being surrounded by 4 men. The caddies and other witnesses on hand said that when the umbrella incident happened, it was only Dela Paz and the mayor that were talking. The other parties were in the tee house about 15-20 yards away. The Mayor says he was poked and so he backed off and just as he was about to be poked again, his brother, Hussein ran and attacked Delapaz and hit Delapaz knocking him to the ground.( At this point the commotion took place. One of the things observed is 14-year old Bino hit the Mayor with his driver. Apparently, the mayor parried with his forearm and hand so this is where he sustaned the injury. In the process also, Hussein was being pulled off the older dela paz by his 2 children but again Bino was seen to hit Hussein in the face and head while Bambee had scratched the other side of Husseins face. At this time also, witnesses say, that 3 or 4 other members of the flight excluding the Secretary, the 8-year old boy, and the girlfriend of Hussein were involved in attacking or subduing the older dela paz but this lasted very shortly and when the combatants had been separated the existing people in the tee house as well as the new flight that was playing behind the dela paz’s.
At this point the Secretary told the delapaz group to leave so as to avoid any more trouble. As the elder delapaz was leaving he was heard calling someone on his cellphone saying †may away kami, pumunta kayo ditoâ€
No one knew who delapaz was speaking to as he walked away towards the main clubhouse. A few minutes later, the secretary and his group decided to end the day instead of continuing to play. When they got to the clubhouse, Hussein wanted to wash up because he was bleeding in the neck area. As he got near the reception area, he saw delapaz and was heard to have said “O, nandito pa pala kayo†to which Dela Paz said “Hindi pa tapos ito gaganti pa kamiâ€. At this point, Bino got in between his Dad and Hussein while saying †Tatandaan ka namin†(None of the witnesses in the clubhouse, and there were many, ever saw Bino kneel and say that he was only 14 years old at maawa na sila) On the contrary, Bino was acting like anything but a helpless child. He sounded tough, angry, and antagonistic enough that the fight broke out again. At this point, the bodyguards of the Mayor ran into the clubhouse via the poolside entrance. When questioned about this, the mayor said that one was his driver and the other was his “Yayoâ€. As far as the board was concerned, the “Yayo†was also a bodyguard. Said Yayo came into the clubhouse with a clutchbag containing a gun and brought out the gun without pointing it at anyone. The Mayor immediately instructed him that there was no need for guns and the gun was put back. During the investigation, the Mayor said that the handgun was his and that his “yayo†was likely going to give it to him but he declined. Upon instructing his “yayoâ€, the man just stayed in one corner. At this time the wife of Dela Paz and his other son arrived. The son was wielding a baseball bat and the wife had a knife which she pulled out of a scabbard. These two were subdued by security but they were verbally threatening the Pangandaman’s during this time. There was also a reported incident where the driver of the mayor ran out and came back with a suitcase containing a supposed armalite as claimed by valley security. The driver never pulled it out or pointed it at anyone but it was readily accesible
pulis na pogi on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 8:45 am
and here is what the site admin of pinoy golfer.com says about the post of rge:
“Great account of the incident, Ray. My compliments. I heard the same details third-hand from my sources. I agree with the others; Mr. de la Paz was foolish to pick a fight with his children present.
The revelation of these facts cast a severe shadow on the Bambee’s blog, don’t they?â€
aray, aray, aray!!!
tiburcio on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 10:09 am
To Bambi De La Paz,
pakisabihan mo na lang kaya nag mga kaklase mo at kalaro sa golf sa pinapasukan mo paaralan sa Estados Unidos na sulatan ang kanilang mga comgressman na i-blacklist itong mga pangandaman na di makapasok sa Estados Unidos, sa kadahilanan na, kung makakapasok sa kanilang bansa ang mga pangandaman maaring maglaro ito ng golf at bubugin din ang mga kalaro mo o sino mang makasama ng mga pangandaman sa golf course sa estados Unidos.
maraming salamat,
tiburcio
justice league on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 10:31 am
Pulis na pogi,
I think you missed my post at 1:21 AM.
To everyone else,
I believe its only a matter of time for the investigation results to be officially shown to the public.
pulis na pogi on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 11:09 am
justice,
and i think you missed mine in 6:56AM.
btw, i am missing a lot of things here. sometimes my posts get in, sometimes it is marked as spam. hahaha
Lurker_Lang on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 1:45 pm
Wow..justice league..nitpicking again. hahahaha.
its so good of you to scrutinize the report about the 4 or 5 registrants on the pangandamans team when all the while you missed the whole picture. the blogosphere have painted wholesale the pangandaman’s as an evil, inhuman person and portrayed the dela pazs as meek and docile victims of injustice, based on what? of bambees emotionally charged and bias blog.
you have shown your ability to treat an unbias report about the incident with a grain of salt, but very quick to jump into conclusion upon reading bambees one sided account. or are you just too proud to accept that the bloghosphere made a big blunder and too pompous to retract their preconcieved notion of fairness.
the dela paz have shown that THEY CAN and are willing to hurt people who they percieved are lower than them. it just so happen they pick the wrong fight.
justice league on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 1:53 pm
Pulis na pogi ,
Actually I have read that post.
Here is what Brianasal’s post stated.
“When the 2nd flight reached the green of hole no. 5 and after holing out, they joined the 1st flight of Sec. Pangandaman and took their snacks. While doing so, the marshall approached and told Nasser Jr. that the dela Paz’s were complaining why they were 5 of them in their group and why they overtook their flight. Nasser Jr. reiterated to the marshall what he explained to the elder dela Paz, which his knowledge the former already accepted his explanation.
Later, unconvinced even after the marshall relayed to him that there were only four (4) and not five (5) in their flight, and that they were not overtaking as they just had to go back to the clubhouse and later join their flight.”
In the initial explanation that Delfin de la Paz was supposed to have accepted; it was confined to the “overtaking issue”.
There wasn’t an explanation of playing fivesome there yet.
If the fivesome complaint hasn’t arisen yet at that time when the first explanation was supposedly agreed upon; reiterating that the first complaint was addressed will do little to adress the fivesome complaint.
Like I stated earlier “Many people resurrect a previous complaint when they have a new complaint.”.
Facts on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 2:29 pm
LEGAL BEDROCK
THE RULE of law can be defined as a system in which the laws are public knowledge, are clear in meaning, and apply equally to everyone. They enshrine and uphold the political and civil liberties that have gained status as universal human rights over the last half-century. . . . Perhaps most important, the government is embedded in a comprehensive legal framework, its officials accept that the law will be applied to their own conduct, and the government seeks to be law-abiding.
Facts: In the Philippines, what’s happening is exactly the opposite. Politicians own and rule the law
Do not believe sa pulis na pogi. His side of story is a MYTH and it does not support the facts.
The Pangandamans cannot serve right for this country. they can only serve terror and intimidation for the people.
DarkAngel on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 2:56 pm
Facts :
LEGAL BEDROCK
Do not believe sa pulis na pogi. His side of story is a MYTH and it does not support the facts.
nagpupulis pulisan lang yan….
nasa payroll din yan..kaya ganyan ang asta….
pulis na pogi on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 3:03 pm
hahaha, some people just cannot accept that fact na nadenggoy sila ni bambee.
legal bedrock, yan lang ba ang alam mo? oxymoron yata pangalan mo? have you forgotten that a simple denial has almost no weight as evidence?
justice league, well, its up to you. believe what you want. but in my simplistic police world, if just moments ago we had already settled an issue as minor as overtaking (with the help an authority at that), surely, i will let pass your other infraction moments later which is playing in a group of 5 instead of 4! i will just tell you, ok, go on sex orgy of 5 right there if you want! happy new year na lang!
but by the way, even that point of 5some or 4some was clarified and sorted out before the tee off in hole nr 5! here is the explanation of rge (Ray) a pioneer of pinoy golfer.com and personally know to the site admin. he is a member of valley golf:
“I also have a speculation as to why Dela Paz was insisting that the Pangandaman’s were part of a 5-some. This was not covered by any info I got from the fact finding group. If you will recall, the original flights were composed of 3 players each. Obviously, when the mayor joined the second threesome along with his companion, this would make the flight a 5-some. I do believe this was corrected before starting the 5th hole. This is not part of any information relayed to me but just something that crossed my mind when trying to analyze why Dela Paz was insistent that the mayor was playing as a 5-some.”
http://www.pinoygolfer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5801&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=pangandaman&start=240
mindanaoan on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 3:23 pm
bill gates did not invent cut and paste. it was developed by lawrence tesler.
so, the de la pazes made the mistake of provoking the pangandamans. pray tell, is that a defense for clobbering them, including the 14-year old kid? could the picture of the de la pazes as seen on tv be merely a result of self defense?
Madonna on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 3:24 pm
The de la Pazes are stupid enough to attack a government official with armed bodyguards with ice picks at the main club house? I could understand the initial altercation but a second one, with minimal “resbak?†And how incompetent is the mayor’s security if he wasn’t whisked away immediately. — missingpoints
Indeed, if “naivety” is equal to stupidity — then, they were indeed stupid. Reality bites. Maybe they should watch our tabloid-infested primetime news or just the execrable Wowawee (Willy Revillame is virtually a politico himself, dispensing largesse and trampling over the dignities of his studio contestants at the same time) and phuleeeze open their eyes (maybe we are not progressing much as a unified force against the Arroyo regime because we are not on the same plane of reality yet — and how GMA is a genius for letting each group in the society cling to its own views/paradigms/interests). Another thing here, is that, the de la Paz family sort of act like they seem to be in la-la land – clueless ‘ika nga –That the man he was confronting had bodyguards should have alerted the de la Paz father.
And the de la Paz family not belonging to the privileged class? Just consider, what family who does not have influence or is at least, used to having influence would get its own security detail after the incident provided by no less than Interior Secretary Puno? And what about the other people who are routinely subjected to indignities and outright violence by our beloved politicos? Nada. Not unless you become a Manny Pacquiao, and even the President and Vice President would kiss your behind.
When pride/hubris and real power clash (the violent kind as we have in the country), who wins?
Quibbles over etiquette are supposed to signal that its sensible underpinnings have been violated – but in this case – they were indeed violated, but the sense of the situation (and lol, the over-all situation in our poor, sad country) has been taken for granted by the De la Paz family, to their own detriment; obviously, the Pangandamans, judging from the incident, don’t give a shit for either etiquette or its purpose, and clearly abused their authority as government officials. Sec. Nasser Pangandaman resigning? From reports, he just watched – so we are boxing at the moon in hoping that he would resign (please resign? like we have been pleading since Hello Garci to the troll in Malacanang; the troll would like to keep people like Sec. Pangandaman in her cabinet (a token appointment to appease Muslims in his case?; what about the staying power of the curmudgeonly Justice Secretary Raul Gonzales who keeps entertaining us with his notions of justice?).
By all means, we should not tire of raking over the coals the reprehensible acts of government officials who have no business ever in using their people-granted power against citizens — but enough of this naivete or narrow-minded views over justice and injustice in the country.
Lurker_Lang on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 3:33 pm
mindanaon,
according to some eyewitnesses it was bino (14 yo 5 foot 6 140lbs) who first swing a driver to the mayor. so stop portraying him as a defenseless kid.
Facts on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 3:47 pm
When the rule of law is broken, there is no possibility to implement human rights standards.
When the word of the king alone ( hindi niyo ako kilala) is law there is also no possibility of protecting human rights.
To implement the rule of law, education for the people to voice out their frustration is crucial for democracy. It is also appropriate for the pangandamans to sacrifice for their country and resign from their own cruelty as requested by many.
When rule of law is abused by our own representatives, our country will not produce the desired results for economic growth.
mindanaoan on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 3:55 pm
conyo, that was supposedly after hussein attacked the father. but don’t believe it just yet. note that that story line comes from the pangandaman side.
still, you need to demonize the kid some more to justify their being clobbered.
BrianB on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 4:35 pm
I really think Gloria should fire Pangandaman already. All these lawyering from bloggers is going to make us either stupid or mad.
I was so interested in the case, hoping it will highlight the greater issue of very dangerous politician bodyguards. (Who wants a gun pointed at his face, huh? Over nothing?) It’s become an issue for nitpickers.
Madonna, you should read my first comment about the subject on FV.
Lurker_Lang on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 4:47 pm
mindanaoan,
the word came from the eyewitnesses of valley golf as narrated by a club member.
its not about demonizing the kid, i just wanted to convey an unbias version of the story. and that the kid was not as defenseless as some people would like to portray.
they got smack because of the stupidity of the father. i wonder what would you say if the pangandaman was on the recieving end.
kape tayo sa starbucks?
pulis na pogi on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 4:48 pm
facts, whatever that you are smoking right now, throw it away! call the (+632) 531-9001 immediately! hahaha
cvj on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 4:57 pm
As i mentioned above (at December 30th, 2008 at 12:07 am), the Middle Class does not like their heroes to be damaged goods. Since the de la Paz family no longer comes in a neat package, then the equivocation has started. (This is parallel to Miriam’s eliciting an admission from Jun Lozada during the Senate hearing that the latter was not exactly clean.) IMHO, that the elder de la Paz wielded his umbrella first and that the 14-year old is a brat should not change the picture but that’s just me. The Middle Cass follows its own logic.
BrianB on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 5:09 pm
“Since the de la Paz family no longer comes in a neat package… ”
I quoted Kundera on momblogger’s on kitsch.
mindanaoan on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 6:32 pm
conyo, the story is not a factual narration. it’s from the pangadaman side. notice that it includes thoughts of one side (did not want to disturb) but ignorant of the other side (No one knew who delapaz was speaking to).
it doesn’t matter if they were provoked, or if it’s all the dela pazas fault. what should be explained is why the kid was beaten up.
justice league on Sun, 4th Jan 2009 10:29 pm
Lurker Lang,
Hmmmm…. I checked if you already answered in the FV “Scandalizing the Suffering” thread.
It appears you addressed a post to Pulis na Pogi but you haven’t addressed one to me yet.
Are you having difficulty defending your ideas?
“its so good of you to scrutinize the report about the 4 or 5 registrants on the pangandamans team when all the while you missed the whole picture. the blogosphere have painted wholesale the pangandaman’s as an evil, inhuman person and portrayed the dela pazs as meek and docile victims of injustice, based on what? of bambees emotionally charged and bias blog.
you have shown your ability to treat an unbias report about the incident with a grain of salt, but very quick to jump into conclusion upon reading bambees one sided account. “- Lurker Lang
Oh, MORE allegations from you.
My first post here at Dec. 30 11:22 AM on this thread dealt with someone’s personal story.
Discounting a clarification; my next post addressed to someone else on Dec 30 12:19PM contained the statements “And though it wouldn’t exculpate the Pangandamans for what they “supposedly†did, ………”
That should tell everyone what conclusion I had or even if I had one already.
On my post on Jan 2 2:38 PM, I stated:
“One thing interesting about this though is that both sides are rather detailed on what the other side did but rather hedged on what their own side did.
When both versions are eventually reconciled, I think it would be a very interesting story.”
In the FV thread “The Pangandaman-De la Paz Family feud”; someone asked me if
“Have you already made up your mind? Is the case beyond a reasonable doubt? Or are you willing to at least let the courts decide the matter?”
And my reply was “I am willing to look at the results of the investigation.”
So what is this so called “conclusion” that I was supposed to have been quick to jump into?
If indeed the bloghosphere made a big blunder and too pompous to retract their preconcieved notion of fairness; what has that got to do with me?
Leytenian on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 2:50 am
The people have been voiceless for so long. Now the blogosphere is a medium to express. It’s still young and it needs to grow more . There’s nothing wrong with the debate. The on-going publicity may correct the wrongs of others and may open our country to real democracy. Let the politicians be bothered by it. Let them deal with it and experience it.
Let them explain and rebuild their credibility, character and conduct of public service.
Express yourself, everyone .. Let it out even more. This case is a perfect Bang for the new Year.
justice league on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 9:08 am
BrianB,
Hello Brian.
Given that there is someone who loves to ascribe nitpicking to me and somehow you are portraying nitpickers in a negative context; I’m wondering if you are actually referring this to me.
Are you asribing the negative context of this “nitpicking” to what I did regarding your personal story?
Bert on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 12:35 pm
My take on this:
Let the justice system works on this pangandaman/delapaz case.
I agree with mindanaoan. The adult may slug it out anytime they want to vent out their pent-up rage.
But they should keep their hands off the kids.
justice league on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 1:22 pm
Pulis na pogi,
Well I’m not about to admit having any experience with sex orgies so I’ll take your word for that.
But this is golf.
Simple question- Did you consider how long a group of 5 will play golf as against how long a group of 4 will play?
justice league on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 1:24 pm
Ooooopssss.
Wrong block quoting but I know you know enough to figure it out.
pulis na pogi on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 3:04 pm
justice,
goodness, have you been in the fairway yet?
stupid question.
BrianB on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 3:54 pm
justice league, nitpicking when details are hazy and much of it unknown. Nitpicking on actual details.
Lurker_Lang on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 5:26 pm
justice league,
“It appears you addressed a post to Pulis na Pogi but you haven’t addressed one to me yet.
Are you having difficulty defending your ideas?”
I did not answer it so you can gloat about winning the argument..isn’t that what you really want ? having the last say?
but since you insist then i might as well answer you..
you ask me to reconcile my advocacy about the one which is inside the legal system while the other is out. This is non-sequitor; the issue is not about me, its about the dela paz and pangandaman and I say again there is nothing in my POSTs where I advocated “oakwood” while discussing the issue. You ask a question and I answer. It is what it is..But here you are, conveniently twisting the discussion and spin it where you ascribed that I am advocating it. Now who is the spinner here…
It is not an allegation. It is a conclusion your honor. When someone (that means you) tries very hard to scrutinize any report whether from a third party or eyewitnesses and DO NOT subject the other sides story the same scrutiny; it doesn’t take a Sherlock Holmes to deduct which side he believes…
kape tayo sa starbucks?
Lurker_Lang on Mon, 5th Jan 2009 6:40 pm
just so we are clear here..the 5th person was an 8 yo boy who is probably an inch taller than a golf driver.
kape tayo sa starbucks
DarkAngel on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 1:54 am
crystal clear LL…your friends are trying to drag the case towards that 8 yo old boy.
ni hindi nga nadapatan ng lamok yang bambino nila eh yung bino sa kabila, dugoan.
hihintayin kita sa starbucks ha!
tayo tayo lang naman dito eh just like kapatid na pulis. tatahimik na ito pagwala ang mga tulad nyo at tulad ko at tulad nila.
lets see what will happen to their complains filed earlier. sana duguan din si mayor pagkatapos. sabi ni atty fortun 9 to 12 yrs daw pag public official sa kasong child abuse. kakayani kaya yun ni mayor.
hmmmmmmm see yah……..starbucks huh=?
justice league on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 2:41 am
Pulis na pogi,
Since you already admit that the quality of your question is stupid; why do you have to ask it?
BrianB,
I have to admit that I don’t know what you want to convey with that.
Lurker Lang,
justice league on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 2:46 am
Lurker Lang,
You!
If you want to spin; at least be good at it.
Yes, you are not advocating “Oakwood” in your POSTS!
When I asked you where did you take “Oakwood”; I was asking what court of law did you take Oakwood.
Maybe it would have been better if you did advocate something like an “Oakwood” for the De la pazs. At least there will be consistency in your ideas.
Because the issue is Practice and Preach!
“Oakwood” is what you Practice!
Taking the case before the court of law is what you Preach!
So again, how are those 2 ideas in consonance with each other?
So this conclusion of yours is based on your own deduction. Maybe you should have left it to Sherlock Holmes.
If you look at the post that Pulis na Pogi copy pasted from the post of RGE; RGE is just outlining what was outlined to him/her by the head of the fact finding committee. Its practically hearsay but I read it anyway.
Bambee de la Paz’s or the one from Briana Asal (though I don’t know who the writer really is) come in as first person accounts.
Briana Asal’s post never mentioned the Pangandaman bodyguards. RGE and Bambee’s post mentions them.
A lot of people made comments on the Pangandaman bodyguards.
But this is what I said about them:
It is a given that the Pangandaman and De la Paz accounts will have a lot of issues contradicting each other.
I don’t think the De la Pazs would know about Hussein’s son being registered (if that should be the case) but I expected RGE’s account to contain that since it is in the Pangandaman’s account.
I haven’t seen any medical certificate detailing the wounds of either party. But I have seen a video of Bino’s wound. I have not seen any of the wounds of the Pangandaman side.
But as far as I recall, I haven’t contradicted any of the 3 accounts.
What kind of scrutiny would you have exercised?
You did allege that I love arguing for the sake of argument.
If you look at the latter part of “The right fight at the wrong time” thread, I knew that the idea of another blogger was wrong.
But I was prepared to let it go.
Not even if you’re buying!
Bert on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 2:54 am
“just so we are clear here..the 5th person was an 8 yo boy who is probably an inch taller than a golf driver.”
mabuti hindi ito ginantihan at binugbog ng mga delapaz. baka mas civilize sila, heheh.
sleek on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 9:02 am
bullshit all of you people !
hindi niyo ba ako kilala?
I gave Gloria millions of votes. She owed me her seat.
I will not resign over this brawl.
Oh ano, kilala niyo na ako?
I will counter sue for bullshitting me… tandaan niyo yan!!!!!
The Valley Golf incident and the power of the Internet « Hits and Mrs. on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 1:33 pm
[...] spree Pedestrian Observer GB: Mayor Nasser Pangandaman, Jr. GOOFBall Bully of Philippine Golf Manuel L. Quezon III: Impunity Musings of Don Kishote: Comment: Nasser Pangandaman Jr.: The warlord of Misiu Journaling on the [...]
Lurker_Lang on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 3:02 pm
[quote] “If you want to spin; at least be good at it. – justice leagueâ€
[/quote]
Then we are in agreement that you are a good spinner.
[quote]Yes, you are not advocating “Oakwood†in your POSTS! – justice league [/quote]
Thank you for acknowledging it.
[quote]I haven’t seen any medical certificate detailing the wounds of either party. But I have seen a video of Bino’s wound. I have not seen any of the wounds of the Pangandaman side. – justice league[/quote]
Then isn’t waiting for both accounts to be narrated before taking sides the right thing to do? Yes?
[quote]Because the issue is Practice and Preach!
“Oakwood†is what you Practice!
Taking the case before the court of law is what you preach!
So again, how are those 2 ideas in consonance with each other? – justice league[/quote]
No need to bang your head or split your hair justice league. You are entitled to your own interpretation but just to make things clear, do not drag me into your own delusion.
If you really understand my POSTs in which all of this insinuation about preach and practice (dati advocating now preach and practice naman) you are so insistent to prove is;
1) I am speaking on the premise of people are so quick to make judgments based on a one sided and bias account.
2) That I made an example that a lot of Filipinos including me who have suffered maybe worst than what dela paz has but are quite man enough face it. Whether it’s their fault or not is irrelevant in the issue.
You ask what is this action. I answered “oakwoodâ€. You spin the issue and construe that I am advocating both when I was only making an example where the Law should be the final arbiter on any offense.
When I mentioned “oakwood†it is in the principle of (I am speaking only for myself); that I dealt it squarely without these paawa effect of the dela paz who I believed is in a better position to fight the pangandaman in a court of law.
If you can not get that into your crackhead, then I might as well tag you as the most brilliant nitpicker in MLQ3s blog.
If you change your mind, kape tayo sa starbucks.
Lurker_Lang on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 3:10 pm
bert,
“mabuti hindi ito ginantihan at binugbog ng mga delapaz. baka mas civilize sila, heheh.”
I mentioned about the 5th person because someone is making an assumption that the flight of the pangandaman was delayed because of registering 5 in the flight when it was already asserted that only 4 are playing. unless the 5th person was also playing golf. whatyathink?
kape tayo sa starbucks
Lurker_Lang on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 3:12 pm
darkangel,
“tayo tayo lang naman dito eh just like kapatid na pulis. tatahimik na ito pagwala ang mga tulad nyo at tulad ko at tulad nila.”
why don’t you speak only for yourself.
Bert on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 8:26 pm
“unless the 5th person was also playing golf. whatyathink?”-lurker
last time I heard the 5th person was holding on to a golf driver, I think either the person was playing golf or trying to whack the opponent, heheh.
“kape tayo sa starbucks”
ayoko, mahal doon, sayang pera.
Bert on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 8:52 pm
Just some thoughts about this matter:
In golf practice, is an eight year old cannot be allowed to play?
The Pangandaman’s reason for registering the 8 yo boy was that there was nobody to take care of him.
Why nobody? The bodyguards were there, no?
justice league on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 10:45 pm
Lurker Lang,
Please give me 3 good reasons why I should agree.
You are welcome.
That would be ideal. And your point is?
I asked you how you conduct this “lumaban in our own wayâ€.
And your actual response in Scandalizing the Suffering on Jan 2 7:31 PM was:
i’ll give you a hint… â€oakwoodâ€. although i do not belong to the high profile personalities involved there.
You are referring to the “Oakwood mutiny/incident” And you were involved but just wasn’t one of the high profiled personalities.
You may have likened it to dealing without the paawa effects but you were involved in something considered to be outside the legal system. That is how you conduct your ‘lumaban in your own way’. That is your practice.
Yet you preach something else.
Oh, more spin from you.
I never said that you were advocating an “Oakwood”.
Go ahead. Show everyone where I supposedly said that you were advocating “Oakwood”. Copy paste the discussion from FV if you want.
And I don’t even have to say that you do “Oakwood”, because you yourself admit it.
And still spinning!
I never said that the flight of the Pangandamans was delayed because of registering 5.
If indeed Hussein’s 8 year son was registered; there would 9 registrants for the 2 flights.
One flight would then be considered as foursome, the other as fivesome.
I know the 8 year old kid will not play but on paper there will be 9 registrants. (if the kid was indeed registered)
If the De la Pazs were told that there were 9 registrants for the 2 Pangandaman flights without being told that 1 was just a kid who won’t be playing; it would be hard for the De la Pazs to accept that the Pangandamans were playing as 2 Foursomes.
Thanks for the offer but still no .
Btw, why were you involved in “Oakwood” anyway?
DarkAngel on Tue, 6th Jan 2009 11:32 pm
L_L,
Sorry i thought tao ka, di pala.Ok it’s all your fafa.
Dami mong pa spinning sa kwento. I like your style.
One of a kind. Pakawala ka rin ba? Eh di dami nyo na.
hehehehehe
babyblues on Wed, 7th Jan 2009 2:24 am
lurker lang is the worst commenter at mlq and at FV. he has lost his senses and values. his mentality is very typical of a corrupt personality. he/she will devalue our community.
an ignorant and cruel to the well being of this country. let him embarrass himself further just like the pangandamans. One day, lurker lang will find no peace for himself.
pulis na pogi on Wed, 7th Jan 2009 5:16 am
hahaha, i just cannot fathom that until today, there are still fans of the baseball bat-wielding de la pazes insiting the impossible for their idols.
very FORTUN-ate de la pazes.
DarkAngel on Wed, 7th Jan 2009 2:11 pm
babyblues,
tumpak!!!as in 101% balls-eye. if he(L_L), puro balls lang.if she (L_L)naman i dont know, she needs balls maybe.
Lurker_Lang on Wed, 7th Jan 2009 6:53 pm
justice league,
“Btw, why were you involved in “Oakwood†anyway? ”
I would very much like to answer you, but giving the way this discussion had turned out to… i am a little bit suspicious that this may be another leading question.
Maybe some another time..
Lurker_Lang on Wed, 7th Jan 2009 6:59 pm
babyblues,
“lurker lang is the worst commenter at mlq and at FV. he has lost his senses and values. his mentality is very typical of a corrupt personality. he/she will devalue our community.
an ignorant and cruel to the well being of this country. let him embarrass himself further just like the pangandamans. One day, lurker lang will find no peace for himself.”
Do you have any basis for your accusations?
will you be citing an example of your moral ascendancy to support your assertion that I am corrupt?
you don’t even know if I am a he or a she.. hahahahaha
kape tayo sa starbucks
Lurker_Lang on Wed, 7th Jan 2009 7:03 pm
DarkAngel,
you’re just a keyboard warrior…and that’s all you gonna be..hahahahahaha
kape tayo sa starbucks
justice league on Wed, 7th Jan 2009 10:46 pm
Lurker Lang,
Well I really couldn’t make any promises that it wouldn’t be. Might have depended on your answer.
You did admit that you have been reading my posts here in Manolo’s blog for more than 2 years.
But I don’t know if you came across a post I once wrote regarding the military here in this blog. (It doesn’t appear on “search” so I’m basing this on memory)
I remember I said that there appears to be a big difference between the military under ex-Pres. Estrada and the one under PGMA (in dealing with the secessionist threat I believe)
I think I intimated that “Oakwood” probably had a lot to do with that. ( The loss of veteran officers who are willing to fight )
If ever I do get to finish that UNCLOS story (actual phrase being “I do get to start”), I think Sen. Trillanes will play a substantial part in that article.
But I respect your decision and till that some another time or something else comes, I bid you goodbye.
Lurker_Lang on Thu, 8th Jan 2009 2:18 pm
justice league,
I do read your post including all other commens from the regulars of mlq blog. But I would admit that I may not remember specific posts that I came across with.
There really is a big difference during ex-pres Estradas time. Even with all his shortcomings I can say that troops morale are higher in Junior Officers and NCO ranks.
Maybe you noticed that most of the disgruntled military who participated in “oakwood” came from the elite units of the AFP. Noticed also that the PMA class 94 though as idealistic as the 95’s they inhibited themselves. These has more to do with upperclass/lowerclass or seniority upbringing deeply engrained in the academy. Tactical command was in the hands of the 95’s. No self respecting upperclassmen will be willing to take orders from an underclass. But this is another story..
I would very much like to read about your UNCLOS story when you do finish it.
And goodbye to you..for now
Lurker_Lang on Thu, 8th Jan 2009 2:19 pm
“comments”
glentomacruz on Fri, 9th Jan 2009 3:12 am
Clash of ego ang nangyari.. isang mayaman at isang politico…. pang maykaya lang ang golf e… status symbol…. pati anak ni dela paz e naglalaro… gentleman’s game daw ang golf…PWE! ang asal ng mga yan e hoodlum…
yang mga pulitikong mga yan, ang yayabang pati mga bodyguards… e sineswelduhan lang naman ng taumbayan…akala mo na kung sino.. idamay niyo pa yang mga pulis, militar, konsehal at pati hamak na barangay tanod…
Kaya lang kung iisipin, yang mga dela Paz e mayaman din kasi(kaya afford maggolf)…tinamaan ang mga ego sa paglalaro ng golf…away ng mga mayayabang…nagpa-awa effect din na kesyo matanda na yung tatay… tapos yung anak e may hangin din sa ulo..
gaya sa badminton sa corporate, daming mayabang(gaya ng duktor na ulol na naglalaro sa centro-inihian ko sasakyan mo gago!) at ngayon lang yata nakapaglaro ng competitive game… hindi nakakaintindi ng pagkatalo or sportsmanship…mga PWE!!!
leytenian on Fri, 9th Jan 2009 5:27 am
the mayor pangandaman has no right to claim advantage on PACE of PLAY nor have the rights to insist to ” Play through” . If de la paz decline and said NO, the mayor should have accepted it.
Our representative in this country are losing values, ethics and moral conduct . baliktad daw sabi ni tongue twisted and I agree:
Gloria – imbes paunlarin ang bansa, ninanakawan pa; sumumpa pa sa bibliya, sinungaling naman; ina raw siya ng bansa, pero ipinapaalipin yung mga anak niya sa dayuhan
Kongreso – imbes gumawa ng batas ayon sa konstitusyon, pilit gumagawa ng konstitusyon para sila mapaboran ng batas
PNP – imbes na manghuli ng kriminal, sila ang gumagawa ng krimen
AFP – imbes na dinidisarmahan ang mga rebelde, binebentahan pa ng armas
DA – imbes tulungan ang magsasaka, pinopondohan ang mga umaangkat ng bigas
DAR – imbes na palawigin ang mga lupang sakahan, ayun nambubugbog sa golf course na dapat sana’y taniman ng gulay
DOE – imbes imbestigahan yung dambuhalang oil companies, yung dealers ang binubusisi, doon lang naman bumibili sa tatlo yung mga dealers
DENR – imbes patigilin ang pagkakalbo ng gubat, pinaputol lahat ng puno sa parke sa tabi ng dating Jai-Alai
GSIS – imbes na paunlarin yung pera nila sa Meralco, pilit nilulugi ang halaga ng stocks nito
SSS – imbes na maging transparent sa mga investment nito, kumuha ng sekretaryong mahilig magtago sa executive privelege
POC – imbes sanayin ang mga atleta sa laban, sila-sila ang naglalaban – sa pondo
DILG – imbes bantayan ang pinag-gagawa ng mga pulis, kinukuha nilang bantay (bodyguard) yung mga pulis
OWWA – imbes bigyan ng tulong ang mga OFW na kumita, kinokotongan pa di pa man nakakaalis
NAPOCOR – imbes na kuryente ang ibinebenta, yung power plant ang sinusubasta
PAG-IBIG – imbes magpabahay sa mahihirap, bumili ng bahay sa Dasma
(dagdagan ninyo)
pulis na pogi on Sun, 11th Jan 2009 3:45 pm
i wonder what is the next thing that the de la paz apologists will say, now that valley golf expells Dela Paz and only suspends for two years the dar chief.
valley golf concluded that de la paz instigated the fight!
Jason B on Sat, 24th Jan 2009 4:30 am
just whack the pangandamans already;
more people will rejoice than mourn;
our justice system sucks; it only works for the
rich / in this case, the richer;
the worst feeling is seeing the end of a barrel
of a gun pointing directly at you; whether he will pull the trigger or not; we all talk/write/blog; but it is
our actions/reactions that define us as men, not animals.
diego on Sat, 7th Mar 2009 3:29 am
mayor told his bodyguards “maul them or i’ll fire you!”