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	<title>Comments on: Requiring perspicacity from those dulled by gluttony?</title>
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	<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/</link>
	<description>Punditry. Politics. History. Commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-2/#comment-970282</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-970282</guid>
		<description>hvrds, yes you have good reason to doubt. In a run-off it could still go both ways but if you add up the results.

1998 election returns &amp; percentage
Joseph Ejercito Estrada  &lt;b&gt;10,722,295 39.86%&lt;/b&gt;

Jose de Venecia 4,268,483 15.87%
Raul Roco       3,720,212 13.83%
Emilio OsmeÃ±a   3,347,631 12.44%
Alfredo Lim 	2,344,362  8.71%
Renato de Villa 1,308,352  4.86%                               
Anti-Erap vote  &lt;b&gt;14,989,040  55.71%&lt;/b&gt;

The 55.71% anti-Erap vote would have been enough to trump Erap&#039;s 39.86%.  (That&#039;s percentage disparity is probably going to be bigger than the eventual result of the 2008 Presidential elections between Obama &amp; McCain.)  The big assumption, (and this is where doubt sets in), is how may of the voters for other candidates would have shifted to JDV.

BTW, did you notice that it is the rich elite who propagate the  &#039;familist&#039; culture in the Philippines (e.g. Dondi Teehankee)?   As Manolo mentioned previously, the OFW (who mostly come from the lower classes) once they get established, are the first ones move away from their relatives by establishing retirement homes away from their hometowns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hvrds, yes you have good reason to doubt. In a run-off it could still go both ways but if you add up the results.</p>
<p>1998 election returns &amp; percentage<br />
Joseph Ejercito Estrada  <b>10,722,295 39.86%</b></p>
<p>Jose de Venecia 4,268,483 15.87%<br />
Raul Roco       3,720,212 13.83%<br />
Emilio OsmeÃ±a   3,347,631 12.44%<br />
Alfredo Lim 	2,344,362  8.71%<br />
Renato de Villa 1,308,352  4.86%<br />
Anti-Erap vote  <b>14,989,040  55.71%</b></p>
<p>The 55.71% anti-Erap vote would have been enough to trump Erap&#8217;s 39.86%.  (That&#8217;s percentage disparity is probably going to be bigger than the eventual result of the 2008 Presidential elections between Obama &amp; McCain.)  The big assumption, (and this is where doubt sets in), is how may of the voters for other candidates would have shifted to JDV.</p>
<p>BTW, did you notice that it is the rich elite who propagate the  &#8216;familist&#8217; culture in the Philippines (e.g. Dondi Teehankee)?   As Manolo mentioned previously, the OFW (who mostly come from the lower classes) once they get established, are the first ones move away from their relatives by establishing retirement homes away from their hometowns.</p>
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		<title>By: hvrds</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-2/#comment-970169</link>
		<dc:creator>hvrds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-970169</guid>
		<description>On JDV you are correct. But I still doubt if he could take Erap on and win in a runoff. 

I heard someone on TV last night talk about the low trust &quot;familist&quot; culture of the Philippines. It was none other than Dondi Teehankee defending his brothers clemency. 

Then he said that we must move away from this format.  Huh??

If you want to make class contradictions you have to  have a general idea of the class status. 

For the informal settlers- the peasants who have been unable to find jobs what class would they fall under? 

Point out the blue collar industrial worker in the Philippines. Where are they? 

Point out the what is known as elite since one uses class contradictions.

Who send off and who receives OFW&#039;s at the airport.. The entire barangay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On JDV you are correct. But I still doubt if he could take Erap on and win in a runoff. </p>
<p>I heard someone on TV last night talk about the low trust &#8220;familist&#8221; culture of the Philippines. It was none other than Dondi Teehankee defending his brothers clemency. </p>
<p>Then he said that we must move away from this format.  Huh??</p>
<p>If you want to make class contradictions you have to  have a general idea of the class status. </p>
<p>For the informal settlers- the peasants who have been unable to find jobs what class would they fall under? </p>
<p>Point out the blue collar industrial worker in the Philippines. Where are they? </p>
<p>Point out the what is known as elite since one uses class contradictions.</p>
<p>Who send off and who receives OFW&#8217;s at the airport.. The entire barangay.</p>
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		<title>By: vic</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-2/#comment-969883</link>
		<dc:creator>vic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969883</guid>
		<description>What is our Electoral Law? Do we have one?

Yes, there is, not as most may like it but duly enforced will do for a moment, and that where the problems lie, enforcement.

Leytenian, just two years ago, corporate donations and from labour unions were allowed in our Electoral Laws, but even that were abused, so it was abolished and now the source of election campaign fundings come from only two sources, the individuals contributor, including the candidates and the government in forms of rebates and refunds...and even that a very strict guidelines of record keeping is required since most of these contributions are refunded by the government, including a refund of at least 50% for the qualified Parties for the allowable expense...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is our Electoral Law? Do we have one?</p>
<p>Yes, there is, not as most may like it but duly enforced will do for a moment, and that where the problems lie, enforcement.</p>
<p>Leytenian, just two years ago, corporate donations and from labour unions were allowed in our Electoral Laws, but even that were abused, so it was abolished and now the source of election campaign fundings come from only two sources, the individuals contributor, including the candidates and the government in forms of rebates and refunds&#8230;and even that a very strict guidelines of record keeping is required since most of these contributions are refunded by the government, including a refund of at least 50% for the qualified Parties for the allowable expense&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-2/#comment-969591</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969591</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Extended families. That vision of people helping move a home on their shoulders is part of that familial culture. - hvrds&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s the first time i&#039;ve heard such an interpretation. I&#039;ve always thought that the people helping the family in moving house are the neighbors who are not necessarily their relatives which makes it part of community culture (on top of familial culture).

&lt;blockquote&gt;Then you use class contradictions to mouth your arguments. For the guys living in the slums and other garbage dumps eveyrone person who is in a private car is an elite. - hvrds&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True, but i don&#039;t see how that invalidates my use of class contradictions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Extended families. That vision of people helping move a home on their shoulders is part of that familial culture. &#8211; hvrds</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s the first time i&#8217;ve heard such an interpretation. I&#8217;ve always thought that the people helping the family in moving house are the neighbors who are not necessarily their relatives which makes it part of community culture (on top of familial culture).</p>
<blockquote><p>Then you use class contradictions to mouth your arguments. For the guys living in the slums and other garbage dumps eveyrone person who is in a private car is an elite. &#8211; hvrds</p></blockquote>
<p>True, but i don&#8217;t see how that invalidates my use of class contradictions.</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-1/#comment-969540</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969540</guid>
		<description>ricelander, hvrds, yes, jdv came in second in 1998 and  could have won in a run-off.  he came in &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_general_election,_1998&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;second at 15.87% of the vote&lt;/a&gt; and it is possible for him to have consolidated  all the anti-Erap votes.  (hvrds, perhaps you were thinking of mitra?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ricelander, hvrds, yes, jdv came in second in 1998 and  could have won in a run-off.  he came in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_general_election,_1998" rel="nofollow">second at 15.87% of the vote</a> and it is possible for him to have consolidated  all the anti-Erap votes.  (hvrds, perhaps you were thinking of mitra?)</p>
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		<title>By: leytenian</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-1/#comment-969503</link>
		<dc:creator>leytenian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969503</guid>
		<description>First order of the day is to change our Electoral Law. There must be full disclosure of minimum and maximum donation to a party.  Buying of votes is not acceptable . Corporate entities endorsing a presidential candidate  must be limited in terms of advertising. What is our Electoral Law? Do we have one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First order of the day is to change our Electoral Law. There must be full disclosure of minimum and maximum donation to a party.  Buying of votes is not acceptable . Corporate entities endorsing a presidential candidate  must be limited in terms of advertising. What is our Electoral Law? Do we have one?</p>
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		<title>By: UP n grad</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-1/#comment-969413</link>
		<dc:creator>UP n grad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969413</guid>
		<description>What is the likelihood that if they discard the term limits  and if there are clean elections,   then GMA  will win in a contest against at least 5 others?

Reasons --- (i) power of the incumbent;  (ii)  dissipation of anti-GMA votes across 5 others;  (iii)  the 5 others.

One would suspect the likelihood is high,  else why the support for  cha-cha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the likelihood that if they discard the term limits  and if there are clean elections,   then GMA  will win in a contest against at least 5 others?</p>
<p>Reasons &#8212; (i) power of the incumbent;  (ii)  dissipation of anti-GMA votes across 5 others;  (iii)  the 5 others.</p>
<p>One would suspect the likelihood is high,  else why the support for  cha-cha.</p>
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		<title>By: PSI</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-1/#comment-969368</link>
		<dc:creator>PSI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969368</guid>
		<description>&quot;Extended families. That vision of people helping move a home on their shoulders is part of that familial culture. The basis social security is the extended family.&quot;

Although the extended family provides a good support system in times of need, the concept has a bad negative aspect. Many forms of political corruption are rooted on the extended family: cronyism, embezzlement, nepotism, patronage, etc.

An authentic and dynamic civil society must correct this nightmarish anomaly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Extended families. That vision of people helping move a home on their shoulders is part of that familial culture. The basis social security is the extended family.&#8221;</p>
<p>Although the extended family provides a good support system in times of need, the concept has a bad negative aspect. Many forms of political corruption are rooted on the extended family: cronyism, embezzlement, nepotism, patronage, etc.</p>
<p>An authentic and dynamic civil society must correct this nightmarish anomaly.</p>
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		<title>By: hvrds</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-1/#comment-969195</link>
		<dc:creator>hvrds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969195</guid>
		<description>I do not think JDV would have qualified for a runoff. He was to far down the list. I believe that even Imelda beat him. 

Erap, Noli, Ate Vi, Loren will be in the running for the next election. Korina would be a dynamite Presidential bet. Pick one for President or VP (Loren, or Ate Vi)
Manny, Mar, Ping and the rest of the pack would lose in a clean election. 
Suck it up guys this is the reality.  No need for fancy arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not think JDV would have qualified for a runoff. He was to far down the list. I believe that even Imelda beat him. </p>
<p>Erap, Noli, Ate Vi, Loren will be in the running for the next election. Korina would be a dynamite Presidential bet. Pick one for President or VP (Loren, or Ate Vi)<br />
Manny, Mar, Ping and the rest of the pack would lose in a clean election.<br />
Suck it up guys this is the reality.  No need for fancy arguments.</p>
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		<title>By: hvrds</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/10/11/requiring-perspicacity-from-those-dulled-by-gluttony/comment-page-1/#comment-969184</link>
		<dc:creator>hvrds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1970#comment-969184</guid>
		<description>&quot;hvrds, our people do have the concepts of bayanihan and pakikipagkapwa to build on. The failure to recognize this is part of the elitistâ€™s conceit.&quot;

In the countryside you have clans living close to each other.

Extended families. That vision of people helping move a home on their shoulders is part of that familial culture.  The basis social security is the extended family. Go to North Forbes and almost all the house help are from a particular province since a lot of the homeowners are from there. 

What do you think communal tribes are?  Families

You want to dress it up with fancy words that is ok. Where do you think the word Mafia comes from. Mi familia.  The accents changed the sound to listeners and it came out Ma Familia. 

That is is true bayanihan. Even the triads work along the same structure in the past. 

Then you use class contradictions to mouth your arguments.  For the guys living in the slums and other garbage dumps eveyrone person who is in a  private car is an elite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;hvrds, our people do have the concepts of bayanihan and pakikipagkapwa to build on. The failure to recognize this is part of the elitistâ€™s conceit.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the countryside you have clans living close to each other.</p>
<p>Extended families. That vision of people helping move a home on their shoulders is part of that familial culture.  The basis social security is the extended family. Go to North Forbes and almost all the house help are from a particular province since a lot of the homeowners are from there. </p>
<p>What do you think communal tribes are?  Families</p>
<p>You want to dress it up with fancy words that is ok. Where do you think the word Mafia comes from. Mi familia.  The accents changed the sound to listeners and it came out Ma Familia. </p>
<p>That is is true bayanihan. Even the triads work along the same structure in the past. </p>
<p>Then you use class contradictions to mouth your arguments.  For the guys living in the slums and other garbage dumps eveyrone person who is in a  private car is an elite.</p>
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