Numerology and politics

benign0 on Wed, 21st May 2008 5:43 pm 



You failed to mention Jun Lozada and his posse of nuns — an image that at the height of his popularity was hungily lapped up by the masses.

Why don’t we give this “crisis of modernity” a word — primitivism, as in: The Philippines is a primitivist society.

mlq3 on Wed, 21st May 2008 5:50 pm 



benign0, ask anthropologists why they reject the term “primitive.”

Marck on Wed, 21st May 2008 6:01 pm 



benign0:

“crisis of modernity” is not “primitivism.” “crisis of modernity,” if i remember my social theory classes correctly (and please, correct me if i’m wrong), is more accurately translated into “disorientation.” modern society is faced with huge, unmanageable degrees and levels of change that mechanisms for rationality are either no longer responsive, or people seek alternatives to the order brought about by rationality.

hence, “post-modernity;” ambiguity, interpretation, difference, change, absence, etc. rationality and order give way to a multiplicity of voices, against-the-discrete, against-the-order.

in effect, we may all have experienced that anyway, that our lives as constantly-living, constantly-cognate, constantly-emotional, constantly-thinking, constantly-conscious human beings are in a state of constant crisis. so we go beyond reason and engage in resistance against an order established by rationality to constantly resolve a constant crisis.

it’s more than “primitivism.” “crisis of modernity” itself is an intellectual debate, not an exercise in labeling…

The Equalizer on Wed, 21st May 2008 7:33 pm 



(Chinese：中兴通讯)

Those who know Chinese in this blog will tell you this SPELLS the real problem of Gloria Arroyo!

benign0 on Wed, 21st May 2008 8:44 pm 



So kung baga, Marck, we’ve come full circle from primitivism to rationality (or at least access to but not appreciation of it) then pushed past it to go back to a new form of primitivism that we now call “post-modern” among other things?

mlq3, just because the anthropologists reject it does not necessarily invalidate the concept it seemingly describes.

cvj on Wed, 21st May 2008 8:54 pm 



Don’t despair too much Manolo about superstitious beliefs. Even LKY is a believer in lucky charms. A local told me that early in its post-independence history, the Singapore government in one of its public works projects accidentally did something that would bring it bad luck (something to do with disturbing a ‘dragon’). LKY then approached a geomancer who advised him that in order to counteract bad luck, every Singaporean should carry a ‘ba gua’ (an octagon shaped lucky charm). That explains the shape of the Singapore Dollar coin.

On the Crisis of Modernity, Randy David (who also cites Niklas Luhman) specifically describes it as the transition to a functionally decomposed (or in Marck’s terms ‘differentiated’) society. This is manifested in the ‘Elitist Mindset’ by the political class and its middle and upper class supporters (among others). This group is still stuck in the hierarchical paradigm of Pre-modern Society. I suggest you despair more about this.

cvj on Wed, 21st May 2008 10:25 pm 



Some Taiwanese TV stations are also blaming the feng shui of Beijing’s massive new “Bird Nest” Olympic stadium, saying it has “interrupted the pulse” of a giant dragon said to lie beneath the country.

I suppose this means that we should expect ba gua shaped coins to soon become part of China’s currency.

supremo on Wed, 21st May 2008 11:02 pm 



‘President Arroyo has had the presidential palace exorcised several times’

I guess it didn’t work because she is still there.

BrianB on Thu, 22nd May 2008 1:08 am 



Crisis of Modernity? How about crisis of shallowness.

Our elite are obsessed with the notion that their fate and their family’s fate are greater than the fate of the nation. History pale in comparison to their own domestic concerns. That’s why every time there’s a problem, they turn to the latest TV show they’ve watched for a solution. What’s worse is that they look upon the masses and the continuous generations that comprise the stagnating class with utter contempt. If they can put them all in a box they would. True democracy is antithetical to their way of life simply because one has to count the millions of poor and uneducated people that must participate too.

Shallow.

supremo on Thu, 22nd May 2008 3:11 am 



There is a need for an environment which can provide more opportunities for the lower class and more restrictions for the upper class to rig the environment in their favor. Don’t expect the government to provide this environment in the Philippines.

Bencard on Thu, 22nd May 2008 3:53 am 



“rig the environment in their favor supremo? it’s not nice to fool mother nature (LOL).

Bencard on Thu, 22nd May 2008 4:02 am 



speaking of nostradamus, the rise of the biblical anti-christ is, according to his prediction, starting right about now. his description of the beast, and the manner it captures the adulation of the multitude, are uncanny.

benign0 on Thu, 22nd May 2008 4:32 am 



There’s a book titled Triumph of the Airheads.

It’s one thing for shallowness to afflict societies that have the financial resources to indulge in it. But to be embraced by a primitive society like the Philippines is another.

Wala na ngang pera, shallow and primitive pa. Patay kang bata ka.

supremo on Thu, 22nd May 2008 4:36 am 



Environment as in social environment Bencard.

Thanks for the warning about the anti-christ. Is this somehow related to the latest Indiana Jones movie or you just got a memo from you know who?

hawaiianguy on Thu, 22nd May 2008 5:49 am 



it’s more than “primitivism.” “crisis of modernity” itself is an intellectual debate, not an exercise in labeling…

Marck

I agree. You seem to espouse a post-modernist view (judging from your blog). The crisis of modernity that David mentioned has been floating around in academia for so long.

In brief, the crisis is brought about by the failure of society to keep up with the gains of modernity (aka “progress”) that is built on science and rationality. As a consequence, it has disappointed many individuals who now seek for more viable alternatives to answer pressing problems in society that persist despite advancements in technology and communication.

One such problem is the issue of property, which is rationalized by means of a document known as torrens title. Spain has bequeathed this legacy to its colonies like the Philippines.

Its unfortunate consequence is, that it set aside the age-old tradition of property ownership based on communal values. Hence, ancestral domain is resurrected to protect tribal communities and other minority groups that have not “modernized” or embraced “rationality” that came with colonization.

The rise to modernity is associated with people being disenchanted with charm, magic and even religion that we now call “orthodoxy.” They think that they can better answer life’s mystery by an appeal to reason and facts, rather than by clinging to faith and beliefs.

This is why many are now tempted to use so-called post-modern approaches that may provide more meaning and vitality to people’s lives. Early thinkers like Locke, Hobbes, and even Marx have failed to see that man’s penchant for rational thinking is the same trap that imprisons him and causes his downfall.

Question now is, shall we disregard ancestral domain because it runs counter to modern concept of ownership?

This is basically the raging issue why the Bangsamoros call for secession. Their right to ancestral domain is ignored by legalists simply because their proof of ownership doesn’t come in the form of a signed document.

The post-modern explanation is to essentialize the right of voiceless, marginalized communities – those groups of people who have not been colonized, or have little or no access to modern science and technology, or don’t subscribe to Hobbesian rationality that puts primacy on the literate citizens of a nation-state.

I guess, what we should ask is: how do we deal with the “other”, rather than how we go along with our own kind? This is the most human thing we can do under these trying times.

jude on Thu, 22nd May 2008 7:42 am 



Right now, the most serious “numerology” to consider would be the escalating price of oil and its effects on the world economy. At over $130/barrel and rising, it raises the specter of high inflation and low growth. The dreaded “stagflation”.

No less than Warren Buffett has indicated that the that the effects of an economic downturn could last for a while.
“I don’t necessarily think we’re halfway through or necessarily a quarter of the way through the effects throughout the general economy,” Buffett said. “The initial effects are felt by the people who really did the silliest things, but you can have a whole bunch of domino-type effects that eventually can get to people who are doing fairly sound things.”

And Goldman Sachs has predicted $200/barrel oil within this year. This, plus possible interest hikes to combat inflation, would bring about a “perfect storm” which would lingeringly snuff out consumer spending and production. Unlike recent recessions, this slump will take its toll slowly, but last for a longer period.

anthony scalia on Thu, 22nd May 2008 9:10 am 



cvj,

This is manifested in the ‘Elitist Mindset’ by the political class and its middle and upper class supporters (among others). This group is still stuck in the hierarchical paradigm of Pre-modern Society, – cvj

such an anti-elitist view is also a type of ‘hierarchical paradigm’ of pre-modern society as well.

lets not make the mistake of thinking that a ‘hierarchical paradigm’ is non-existent in supposedly modern western societies.

after all, having a form of ‘hierarchical paradigm’ is human nature

its already the postmodern era. using terms such as ‘pre-modern’ is ’so modern’

cvj on Thu, 22nd May 2008 9:22 am 



Anthony, you’re right that hierarchies still exist but that was not my point. As i explained repeatedly (most recently in the previous thread), while hierarchies still exist within each of Society’s subsystems, there cannot be a hierarchy for Society as a whole. A Caste System, especially one that is highly unequal, is inimical to the level of specialization and coordination needed in Modern Society.

BTW, when you that Society is postmodern, what do you mean?

Marck on Thu, 22nd May 2008 9:52 am 



cvj:

there is no such thing as a “postmodern” society. many postmodernists take exception to being called “postmodernists.”

to echo walden bello’s term, i think the proper term would be “permanent crisis.” society, faced with the demands constant and accelerated change, is encountering a need to cope, but current paradigms are no longer able to resolve the anomalies (with reference to thomas kuhn; as an example, read dilbert). as such, the “postmodern” alternative would be to accommodate as many paradigms – voices – as possible and to look at things not from oppositions and presence, but in terms of difference and absence. that has many implications on society.

i personally would recommend a reading/skimming of lyotard’s notions of “the postmodern,” or a slim volume written by derrida entitled “positions.” although i have to admit: i have problems reading and digesting them.

hvrds on Thu, 22nd May 2008 10:32 am 



For everyone deeply enamored by monism – the monetization of life itslef.

A simple explanation of why a neutral medium of exchange like the value of gold tied to physical production of goods and service that benefit and sustain humanity (that means the planet) would be best and this would remove the power of politics to create inflation that ultimately destroys the productive value of labor.

All major upheavals apart from natural calamities have been caused by government fooling around with monetary values and creating inflation. It has also created very few wealthy men for in the process those who own most of the means of production grwo richer from asset inflation that gets embeded to the detriment of the vast majority.

hvrds on Thu, 22nd May 2008 10:36 am 



“It consisted of twelve regional Federal Reserve banks nominally owned by private bankers, but in fact government sponsored, controlled, and supported. Credit extended by these banks is in practice (though not legally) backed by the taxing power of the federal government.”

GOLD AND ECONOMIC FREEDOM

by Alan Greenspan

An almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense – perhaps more clearly and subtly than many consistent defenders of laissez-faire – that gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other.

In order to understand the source of their antagonism, it is necessary first to understand the specific role of gold in a free society.

Money is the common denominator of all economic transactions. It is that commodity which serves as a medium of exchange, is universally acceptable to all participants in an exchange economy as payment for their goods or services, and can, therefore, be used as a standard of market value and as a store of value, i.e., as a means of saving.

The existence of such a commodity is a precondition of a division of labor economy. If men did not have some commodity of objective value which was generally acceptable as money, they would have to resort to primitive barter or be forced to live on self-sufficient farms and forgo the inestimable advantages of specialization. If men had no means to store value, i.e., to save, neither long-range planning nor exchange would be possible.

What medium of exchange will be acceptable to all participants in an economy is not determined arbitrarily. First, the medium of exchange should be durable. In a primitive society of meager wealth, wheat might be sufficiently durable to serve as a medium, since all exchanges would occur only during and immediately after the harvest, leaving no value-surplus to store. But where store-of-value considerations are important, as they are in richer, more civilized societies, the medium of exchange must be a durable commodity, usually a metal. A metal is generally chosen because it is homogeneous and divisible: every unit is the same as every other and it can be blended or formed in any quantity. Precious jewels, for example, are neither homogeneous nor divisible. More important, the commodity chosen as a medium must be a luxury. Human desires for luxuries are unlimited and, therefore, luxury goods are always in demand and will always be acceptable. Wheat is a luxury in underfed civilizations, but not in a prosperous society. Cigarettes ordinarily would not serve as money, but they did in post-World War II Europe where they were considered a luxury. The term “luxury good” implies scarcity and high unit value. Having a high unit value, such a good is easily portable; for instance, an ounce of gold is worth a half-ton of pig iron.

In the early stages of a developing money economy, several media of exchange might be used, since a wide variety of commodities would fulfill the foregoing conditions. However, one of the commodities will gradually displace all others, by being more widely acceptable. Preferences on what to hold as a store of value will shift to the most widely acceptable commodity, which, in turn, will make it still more acceptable. The shift is progressive until that commodity becomes the sole medium of exchange. The use of a single medium is highly advantageous for the same reasons that a money economy is superior to a barter economy: it makes exchanges possible on an incalculably wider scale.

Whether the single medium is gold, silver, seashells, cattle, or tobacco is optional, depending on the context and development of a given economy. In fact, all have been employed, at various times, as media of exchange. Even in the present century, two major commodities, gold and silver, have been used as international media of exchange, with gold becoming the predominant one. Gold, having both artistic and functional uses and being relatively scarce, has significant advantages over all other media of exchange. Since the beginning of World War I, it has been virtually the sole international standard of exchange. If all goods and services were to be paid for in gold, large payments would be difficult to execute and this would tend to limit the extent of a society’s divisions of labor and specialization. Thus a logical extension of the creation of a medium of exchange is the development of a banking system and credit instruments (bank notes and deposits) which act as a substitute for, but are convertible into, gold.

A free banking system based on gold is able to extend credit and thus to create bank notes (currency) and deposits, according to the production requirements of the economy. Individual owners of gold are induced, by payments of interest, to deposit their gold in a bank (against which they can draw checks). But since it is rarely the case that all depositors want to withdraw all their gold at the same time, the banker need keep only a fraction of his total deposits in gold as reserves. This enables the banker to loan out more than the amount of his gold deposits (which means that he holds claims to gold rather than gold as security of his deposits). But the amount of loans which he can afford to make is not arbitrary: he has to gauge it in relation to his reserves and to the status of his investments.

When banks loan money to finance productive and profitable endeavors, the loans are paid off rapidly and bank credit continues to be generally available. But when the business ventures financed by bank credit are less profitable and slow to pay off, bankers soon find that their loans outstanding are excessive relative to their gold reserves, and they begin to curtail new lending, usually by charging higher interest rates. This tends to restrict the financing of new ventures and requires the existing borrowers to improve their profitability before they can obtain credit for further expansion. Thus, under the gold standard, a free banking system stands as the protector of an economy’s stability and balanced growth. When gold is accepted as the medium of exchange by most or all nations, an unhampered free international gold standard serves to foster a world-wide division of labor and the broadest international trade. Even though the units of exchange (the dollar, the pound, the franc, etc.) differ from country to country, when all are defined in terms of gold the economies of the different countries act as one – so long as there are no restraints on trade or on the movement of capital. Credit, interest rates, and prices tend to follow similar patterns in all countries. For example, if banks in one country extend credit too liberally, interest rates in that country will tend to fall, inducing depositors to shift their gold to higher-interest paying banks in other countries. This will immediately cause a shortage of bank reserves in the “easy money” country, inducing tighter credit standards and a return to competitively higher interest rates again.

A fully free banking system and fully consistent gold standard have not as yet been achieved. But prior to World War I, the banking system in the United States (and in most of the world) was based on gold and even though governments intervened occasionally, banking was more free than controlled. Periodically, as a result of overly rapid credit expansion, banks became loaned up to the limit of their gold reserves, interest rates rose sharply, new credit was cut off, and the economy went into a sharp, but short-lived recession. (Compared with the depressions of 1920 and 1932, the pre-World War I business declines were mild indeed.) It was limited gold reserves that stopped the unbalanced expansions of business activity, before they could develop into the post-World War I type of disaster. The readjustment periods were short and the economies quickly reestablished a sound basis to resume expansion.

But the process of cure was misdiagnosed as the disease: if shortage of bank reserves was causing a business decline – argued economic interventionists – why not find a way of supplying increased reserves to the banks so they never need be short! If banks can continue to loan money indefinitely – it was claimed – there need never be any slumps in business. And so the Federal Reserve System was organized in 1913. It consisted of twelve regional Federal Reserve banks nominally owned by private bankers, but in fact government sponsored, controlled, and supported. Credit extended by these banks is in practice (though not legally) backed by the taxing power of the federal government. Technically, we remained on the gold standard; individuals were still free to own gold, and gold continued to be used as bank reserves. But now, in addition to gold, credit extended by the Federal Reserve banks (“paper reserves”) could serve as legal tender to pay depositors.

When business in the United States underwent a mild contraction in 1927, the Federal Reserve created more paper reserves in the hope of forestalling any possible bank reserve shortage. More disastrous, however, was the Federal Reserve’s attempt to assist Great Britain who had been losing gold to us because the Bank of England refused to allow interest rates to rise when market forces dictated (it was politically unpalatable). The reasoning of the authorities involved was as follows: if the Federal Reserve pumped excessive paper reserves into American banks, interest rates in the United States would fall to a level comparable with those in Great Britain; this would act to stop Britain’s gold loss and avoid the political embarrassment of having to raise interest rates. The “Fed” succeeded; it stopped the gold loss, but it nearly destroyed the economies of the world, in the process. The excess credit which the Fed pumped into the economy spilled over into the stock market, triggering a fantastic speculative boom. Belatedly, Federal Reserve officials attempted to sop up the excess reserves and finally succeeded in braking the boom. But it was too late: by 1929 the speculative imbalances had become so overwhelming that the attempt precipitated a sharp retrenching and a consequent demoralizing of business confidence. As a result, the American economy collapsed. Great Britain fared even worse, and rather than absorb the full consequences of her previous folly, she abandoned the gold standard completely in 1931, tearing asunder what remained of the fabric of confidence and inducing a world-wide series of bank failures. The world economies plunged into the Great Depression of the 1930’s.

With a logic reminiscent of a generation earlier, statists argued that the gold standard was largely to blame for the credit debacle which led to the Great Depression. If the gold standard had not existed, they argued, Britain’s abandonment of gold payments in 1931 would not have caused the failure of banks all over the world. (The irony was that since 1913, we had been, not on a gold standard, but on what may be termed “a mixed gold standard”; yet it is gold that took the blame.) But the opposition to the gold standard in any form – from a growing number of welfare-state advocates – was prompted by a much subtler insight: the realization that the gold standard is incompatible with chronic deficit spending (the hallmark of the welfare state). Stripped of its academic jargon, the welfare state is nothing more than a mechanism by which governments confiscate the wealth of the productive members of a society to support a wide variety of welfare schemes. A substantial part of the confiscation is effected by taxation. But the welfare statists were quick to recognize that if they wished to retain political power, the amount of taxation had to be limited and they had to resort to programs of massive deficit spending, i.e., they had to borrow money, by issuing government bonds, to finance welfare expenditures on a large scale.

Under a gold standard, the amount of credit that an economy can support is determined by the economy’s tangible assets, since every credit instrument is ultimately a claim on some tangible asset. But government bonds are not backed by tangible wealth, only by the government’s promise to pay out of future tax revenues, and cannot easily be absorbed by the financial markets. A large volume of new government bonds can be sold to the public only at progressively higher interest rates. Thus, government deficit spending under a gold standard is severely limited. The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. They have created paper reserves in the form of government bonds which – through a complex series of steps – the banks accept in place of tangible assets and treat as if they were an actual deposit, i.e., as the equivalent of what was formerly a deposit of gold. The holder of a government bond or of a bank deposit created by paper reserves believes that he has a valid claim on a real asset. But the fact is that there are now more claims outstanding than real assets. The law of supply and demand is not to be conned. As the supply of money (of claims) increases relative to the supply of tangible assets in the economy, prices must eventually rise. Thus the earnings saved by the productive members of the society lose value in terms of goods. When the economy’s books are finally balanced, one finds that this loss in value represents the goods purchased by the government for welfare or other purposes with the money proceeds of the government bonds financed by bank credit expansion.

In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists’ tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists’ antagonism toward the gold standard.

hvrds on Thu, 22nd May 2008 10:47 am 



GSIS, SSS, Pag Ibig, Philhealth, Workmens Compensation are taxes collected for future entitlements. They are separte from income taxes, excise tax and duties.

During the Estrada regime the government (SSS & GSIS) with the majority owners of Equitable bought PCI Bank. They bought the block of shares owned by Gokongwei and Geny Lopez at a huge capital gain for both parties. The buying price was Php 90+ a share.

Banco De Oro then bought out these two government cheap. SSS took a capital loss on the sale. While GSIS got its purchase price back but had to give credit terms to the buyer. During the interim period from 1998 till last year no dividends were earned by both pension funds. The loss of income opportunity was huge. If they had lent that money to the government at least they would have earned close to 10 percent per anum compounded before taxes. Their principal would have doubled in the interim.

When government somehow handles public funds they seem to neglect the basics of making money.

Who profited from these gifts of the public treasury?

cvj on Thu, 22nd May 2008 11:19 am 



Thanks Marck, that’s what i thought so as well. Sometime back, i read Niklas Luhman’s essay ‘Why Does Society Describe Itself as Postmodern’ where he explained that the term is used to redescribe Modern Society. So, the underlying Modern Society is still there, only the second-level description has changed.

I don’t know whether they’ve read Postmodern literature or not but i believe that Gloria Arroyo (or her handlers) have a gut-level appreciation of its ideas well enough to make it work for them.

jude on Thu, 22nd May 2008 12:03 pm 



I think that the Filipino non-Muslim majority find the premises for ancestral domain questionable. One of the premises is that the Bangsamoro and their territories were never conquered and therefore not subject to the concept of land titles, or to treaties between colonial powers that concerned the Philippines. To many Filipinos, that is a stretch.

I would like Mr. Quezon if, by the fact that Muslim leaders served as local and congressional officials in the Commonwealth and in the Republic of the Philippines, does that not signify that Muslims de facto accepted the governing power of both the Commonwealth and the Republic of the Philippines? Being conquered, to my mind, does not only mean being vanquished by force.

And the sweeping Bangsamoro claim to “the entire Mindanao mainland, Basilan, Sulu archipelago, and parts of Palawan” is disputable because, even if there may have been scattered Muslim communities in different areas of these islands, the sovereignty of the Bangsamoro over these territories was not established.

anthony scalia on Thu, 22nd May 2008 1:01 pm 



cvj,

BTW, when you that Society is postmodern, what do you mean?

maybe one characteristic of a ‘postmodern society’ is the noticeable tolerance of contrasting ideas, a willingness to dialogue

KG on Thu, 22nd May 2008 1:09 pm 



(Chinese：中兴通讯)

Equalizer,

I looked it up in mahjong tiles I can only decipher the red dragon character ,sino ba nagmamahjong dito?

KG on Thu, 22nd May 2008 1:13 pm 



Chinese：中兴通讯

ZTE lang pala
naghirap pa ako tingnan sa mahjong

cvj on Thu, 22nd May 2008 1:20 pm 



maybe one characteristic of a ‘postmodern society’ is the noticeable tolerance of contrasting ideas, a willingness to dialogue – Anthony Scalia

I see, thanks. I’m not sure though if that’s a distinguishing characteristic because openness to new ideas and willingness to dialogue has been there at least since the Enlightenment (i.e. liberty, equality and fraternity). You have a point though because as Hawaiianguy (at 5:49 am) has referenced above, postmodern thought makes explicit the concept of the ‘Other’ and the need to deal with them (whoever they may be).

KG on Thu, 22nd May 2008 1:31 pm 



Jude,

I remeber your Winston Garcia post that he might be the Warren Buffet or Carl Icahn of the Philippines.

I just saw his once questioned move to buy the Luna and Amorsolo painting got dismissed by the ombudsman.

Sa tingin ko buti nang sa atin mapunta ito,kesa sa foreigners, this became a hot topic in fiduciary duties ,during the time it happened.

KG on Thu, 22nd May 2008 1:32 pm 



postmodernism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_modernism

KG on Thu, 22nd May 2008 2:10 pm 



primitivism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_culture

jude on Thu, 22nd May 2008 2:27 pm 



KG:

Winston Garcia isn’t the most likeable person. My first impression of the guy was that he was obnoxious, although I did think that his decision to buy the Juan Luna painting, in order to keep it in Philippine hands, was the correct one. This fellow’s track record shows that he dilligently does his homework and he has the guts to make tough decisions, even if they are controversial.

He’s a tough cookie and doesn’t back down from a fight. He’s earned his spurs. He’s faced down taipans and political cronies and got the better of them.

mlq3 on Thu, 22nd May 2008 2:28 pm 



jude, as with any political position, a claim to an extensive ancestral domain makes political sense, you can be bargained down from claiming half the philippines but if you start by being scrupulous about your territorial claims you have nothing left to negotiate.

and as a partisan claim the claim is of course selective about its arguments. it can afford be like that, because most of those on the other side haven’t even studied the claims as thoroughly.

i do agree with your points about inclusion in the commonwealth, etc. being an implicit (and more likely, explicit) acceptance of the sovereignty of the national government, etc.

the other side of the argument vis a vis the moro claims is that the same treaties they cite -because present-day moro leaders and the moro public they claim to represent view themselves as successors in fact of the old moro sultanates- involved repeated recognitions of spanish sovereignty over the sultanates; the sultans in essence turned themselves into satraps of the spanish. not to mention fairly extensive actual conquest and control over palawan and portions of mindanao by the spanish. that aguinaldo asked the sultan of sulu to accede to the newly-proclaimed republic and was rebuffed, only points to how embryonic the philippine state was in 1898. but that state was thoroughly destroyed and conquest by the americans established an entirely different sovereignty over the remainder of the philippines.

and the moro claims of course ignore two things: the bates-kiram treaties and when those broke down (recognizing american sovereignty) actual conquest by the usa of the moro areas. and a new set of treaties which definitively established american sovereignty over the moro areas, retaining the sultan of sulu as a kind of grand mufti of muslim filipinos but without political authority.

and if the present-day moro leaders are successors-in-fact of the old sultans, then their predecessors were the muslim leaders who participated in drafting the 1935 constitution, who had representation in the national assembly and who had representation in the first national senatorial elections in 1941. also, when the last sultan of sulu died, the commonwealth didn’t intervene and didn’t recognize a successor, since the political entity had been absorbed into the country under the americans; the result has been competing claims and no real successor as sultan, only many claims.

where the social contract, if you will, with the muslims broke down, afterwards, was when the policy of sending settlers to mindanao, originally to unpopulated areas, began to result in land-grabbing by christians from muslims. the policy of settling mindanao had two reasons behind it, to serve as pressure valve for agrarian problems in luzon and the visayas and to solidify control over relatively-sparsely-inhabited mindanao, due to lingering distrust between national and muslim leaders because, after having been defeated by the americans, the moro leaders had at times preferred the american to the christian filipino side: support for the americans was strong in muslim mindanao even when christian areas went through an initial period of ambiguity because of the abandonement of bataan and corregidor.

then the exposure of a new class of moro leaders not from the traditional nobility led to a challenge to those traditional leaders and their cozy relationship with christian politicians, and the adoption of a different, originally more secular idealogy of moro identity on the egyptian model under nasser; then the adoption of a pan-islamic ideology in more recent decades. but one criticism some moros have is that these new leaders ended up reproducing the old style of governance of the traditional nobility.

KG on Thu, 22nd May 2008 2:37 pm 



Jude,

Re: Winston Garcia

I agree!

KG on Thu, 22nd May 2008 3:04 pm 



Re:

The plan to have a Republic of Mindanao by the muslims:
That was supposedly one of the assignments to be assigned to my father by FVR w,hen he was the ASEC DND for plans and policies (for a very brief period). before he can craft any plan or policy, Erap took over and removed all the asecs and usecs with any military background in the DND,well he got his all out war, which accomplished nothing.it was an irony, the usecs and the asecs with no military background suggested that. So The military does not have the monopoly of having “utak pulbura” in that case.

jude on Thu, 22nd May 2008 5:50 pm 



“the muslim leaders who participated in drafting the 1935 constitution, who had representation in the national assembly and who had representation in the first national senatorial elections in 1941″ – mlq3

Thank you for the explanation, Mr. Quezon. That makes it very obvious that the Moro leadership was very much involved with the Commonwealth of the Philippines.

And the fact that they have energetically participated (even acquiring a notorious reputation for “extreme” voter turnouts) in elections under the Republic, that would certainly qualify as recogniton of sovereignty in my book.

UP n student on Thu, 22nd May 2008 8:23 pm 



It is the will of the people residing in those pieces of territory that is the biggest roadblock to carving out large chunks out of land from Mindanao. As example, the results of a plebiscite in 2001 that proposed to expand the ARMM from four to 14 provinces — “NO” to bangsamoro expansion.

Luzon- and Visayas-Filipinos should be alerted that Bangsamoro now wants to include more than a thousand non-Muslim communities into the Bangsamoro Juridical Entity, including hundreds of Christian communities (and hundreds of lumad communities). The MILF is very active — just in past months, there were again instances where heavily-armed men forced villages to vacate their homes. Maybe it is not ethnic cleansing yet because lumad- and Christian-villagers are not dying, but there is “land purification” going on.

supremo on Thu, 22nd May 2008 11:33 pm 



The Mindanao problem will not go away even if the GRP agrees to the Bangsamoro Juridical Entity as proposed by the MILF. The MILF will probably split into 2 as soon as the papers are signed. The new group will inherit the weapons of the old MILF and continue the fight.

supremo on Fri, 23rd May 2008 1:30 am 



from atimes.com
‘To weaken the Tamil demand for inclusion of the Eastern Province in the “Tamil homeland”, successive governments have sought to alter the demographic composition of the Eastern Province by encouraging Sinhalese settlements here – and they have succeeded. Today, the east is equally divided between the Tamils, the Sinhalese and the Muslims. It has become multi-ethnic. And Trincomalee has become overwhelmingly Sinhalese, which means the government has been able to break the contiguity of Tamil-dominated districts as well.’

UP n student on Fri, 23rd May 2008 5:29 am 



As late as December 2007, an Indonesian media company correctly describes Mindanao:

The MILF has demanded the creation of an autonomous Muslim region on the island, where Shariah Law would be enforced and they would have control over security and natural resources.

But Mindanao is largely a Christian Island with Muslims just 18 percent of the population. There are concern that if an agreement is not implemented carefully, inter-religious communal violence could erupt.

– from Mindanao Muddle : Fighting the hidden war in the hearts of the people -ASIA CALLING December 11th, 2007

MILF asks — Shariah law by the minority Muslims over the majority of Mindanaowans island population? But they do have practice of rule of the gun.

GRP (government of Republic of the Philippines) is correct. The Constitution of the Philippines has jurisdiction over all territories of the country.

UP n student on Fri, 23rd May 2008 5:34 am 



A cut-and-paste from ASIA CALLING article :
December 11, 2007

Mindanao Muddle : The child fighters of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front

The MILF, the largest rebel group in South-East Asia, has been fighting for decades for an autonomous Bangsamoro homeland on the island of Mindanao, in the Philippines. The MILF has around 12,000 armed mujahadeen, or holy warriors, who say they are fighting for a return of ‘their land’.

Rebecca Henschke went inside one of their camps outside Cotabao City to find out what these men will accept as peace.

We have just arrived at one Camp Darapanan, set in a grove of palm trees at the foot of a mountain. We have passed around 100 rebel fighters on either side of the road leading up to the camp.

Many look only about 15 or 16 years old. They are dressed in military uniforms and carry semi-automatic rifles.

Rex, now 45 is a veteran of this battle. He became a rebel solider when he was just 13 years old.

“This is the true jihad. It started during the time of Marcos. We were attacked by the military during the time of President Estrada. Many of my comrades were killed. It’s very difficult to live away from my family but this is a sacrifice we have had to make.��?

Walking next to him is a young soldier, Abdul.

He says he joined the movement when he was 12 years old. He is now 23 but looks much younger.

He carries his Russian AK 47 weapon like a professional soldier and follows his commander’s orders with ease. However he is shy and withdrawn when it comes to talking about why he took up arms.


hawaiianguy on Fri, 23rd May 2008 5:45 am 



MILF asks — Shariah law by the minority Muslims over the majority of Mindanaowans island population? But they do have practice of rule of the gun. UPnS

I think the MILF doesn’t refer to or ask for the whole Mindanao in its Bangsamoro Juridical Entity, but some 1000 communities only. It was the MNLF under Misuari in 1986 that this claim for the entire island of Mindanao, including Sulu, Tawi-Tawi, Basilan and Palawan was made.

Maybe you’re right on the “rule of the gun” practice, which is what makes most people there esp. Christians apprehensive of being placed under a Moro autonomous (or independent) govt.

jude on Fri, 23rd May 2008 9:29 am 



“Maybe you’re right on the “rule of the gun” practice, which is what makes most people there esp. Christians apprehensive of being placed under a Moro autonomous (or independent) govt.” – hawaiianguy

I also think that the prospect of an Islamic government under Sharia laws is repulsive to most Filipinos. We have been used to freedoms under a secular environment. There is no desire for Theocracy, whether Christian or Islamic. Most Filipinos, including Muslims, have no desire of seeing religion meddling with politics and running their daily lives.

hawaiianguy on Fri, 23rd May 2008 10:21 am 



jude,

You’re right. Many Christians are repulsed being placed under the Islamic shariah, which in some cases imposes more severe penalties (e.g., death penalty for most heinous crimes, stoning to death infidel wives, cutting the arm/tongue of thieves/liars, etc.).

Iran is an example of theocracy, which is anathema even among many Philipine Muslims, who are Sunnis. However, most Muslims would favor religion and politics coming together as one, under the Islamic concept of tauhid (roughly, Arabic for unity). Tauhid is not necessarily theocratic. In Islam, religion and politics are inseparable facets of social life, unlike in western secular societies which put premium on specialization and compartmentalized knowledge. Islamic scholar Ali Shari’ati said this:

(tauhid)…”is to be interpreted in the sense of the unity of nature with metanature, of man with nature, of man with man, of God with the world and with man. It depicts all of these as constituting a total harmonious, living and self-aware system.” In other words, it is essential for man to know not just the parts or the whole but also to understand what relationship exists between the two. (Shari’ati, 1979)

TonGuE-tWisTeD on Fri, 23rd May 2008 12:08 pm 



I have no problem living with Muslims in my community. It is only the possibility of having terrorists/extremists for neighbors that is unsettling. This, I assume, is shared by many if not the majority of non-Muslim Filipinos. But back in 1909, General Black Jack Pershing already had discovered the solution:


“In 1909, before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the United States forces in the island of Mindanao in the Philippines, by Muslim extremists. General “Black Jack” Pershing was the appointed military governor of the Moro Province. He captured 50 terrorists and ordered them to be tied to posts for execution. Since all the prisoners were Muslim, he asked his men to bring two pigs and slaughter them in front of the prisoners. He then proceeded by dipping bullets into the pig’s blood.

In the process he executed 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. Then, the soldiers dug a big hole in the ground and dumped in the terrorists’ bodies and covered them in pig’s blood and viscera. The last man was set free. For 42 years there was not a single Muslim attack anywhere in the world.”

Read TORTURE, INTERROGATION AND INTELLIGENCE.

cvj on Fri, 23rd May 2008 12:31 pm 



Tounge, it can work both ways. A similar act of disrespect in India led to their first War of Independence against the British.

TonGuE-tWisTeD on Fri, 23rd May 2008 1:20 pm 



Ah, the use of bovine (or was it porcine) fat to grease their guns, right? AsianCiv 101. That’s as far as my History goes, heheh.

cvj on Fri, 23rd May 2008 2:16 pm 



Yes, i came to know of it by watching an Indian movie shown on TV here in Singapore (Mangal Panday).

KG on Fri, 23rd May 2008 3:34 pm 



Nakireseatch na din po .
They used lard (unclean for muslims) and or tallow which was sacred for the hindus.

KG on Fri, 23rd May 2008 3:58 pm 



Jologs ko talaga
bovine is for cow,porcine for pig,sorry ha

eh basta sana sebo de macho na lang ang ginamit nila, i tried looking for any porky or beefy in it wala akong makita sa web.

pero malamang it either is from pig or cow kaya di rin pwede

cvj on Fri, 23rd May 2008 4:17 pm 



Karl, i think the British East India Company (a trading outfit which was outsourced by the British Empire to manage its India colony) was cutting costs which is why they used beef intestine and pig lard (or vice-versa) for manufacturing the gun powder casings. They thought they can get away by not telling the native soldiers.

BTW, the movie was very entertaining (and educational) and the musical numbers fitted well into the story line, and were well choreographed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NSZGoQY0M&feature=related

nash on Fri, 23rd May 2008 4:50 pm 



OMG!

Did someone just mention that terrorist General Black Jack Pershing!

He killed the native american indians and killed lots of filipinos!

That man is a disgrace!

KG on Fri, 23rd May 2008 5:08 pm 



CVJ,
Ty for the info and the link!

UP n student on Fri, 23rd May 2008 7:57 pm 



On Blackjack Pershing and the 49-plus-1 Muslim terrorists:

Bummer: Black Jack Pershing Vs Muslims – Its an Urban Legend

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/noframes/read/90763

UP n student on Fri, 23rd May 2008 8:05 pm 



Now there is a slight chance the website that the story is untrue may be counter-propaganda.

Like when FITNA came out and within 3 days, dozens of other links appeared in Youtube or that other video-clip-web-site with FITNA. Clicking on the links, though, pointed you to lectures on or counter-claims about #####.

Not sites about Mother Teresa nor Fidel Castro…. it appears the only websites with “the truth, nothing but the truth” out there in the web are those about Rocky Balboa.

UP n student on Fri, 23rd May 2008 9:35 pm 



Point of clarification: The story about 49+1 and General Pershing may be urban legend. But the website provided by TongueTwisted apparently is a WikiLeak by someone who obtained lecture-material written by a US Marine interrogator.

The interrogator’s statement : My interrogation technique is quite simple. I follow General Pershing’s example and order a pig to be slaughtered near the prisoner. The blood of the animal run’s freely toward the prisoner’s feet. He will immediately lift his knees to avoid making contact with it. I fill a syringe with the pig’s blood and threaten to inject him in the arm. The prisoner will talk — and quickly.

Fair? Depends on your perspective. Effective? Extremely.

He also said this about torture:
Fallacy #3. Torture as a means of interrogation is generally not accepted throughout the world.

In point of fact, within the last three years, more than three-quarters of all countries in the world have practiced torture as a means of interrogation. This applies to their own citizens, as well as foreigners, whether combatants or not.
I hazard to guess that the Abu Sayyaf, MILF, MNLF and NPA are torture-practitioners, too.

cvj on Fri, 23rd May 2008 10:33 pm 



Nash, at least Pershing is an equal opportunity murderer. In the History Channel, i watched a World War I documentary where the soldiers under his command were still ordered to attack on the morning of the last day of the war. Everyone knew that an Armistice had been signed previously which will take effect at 11 am on that day.

UP n student on Fri, 23rd May 2008 11:09 pm 



cvj: Here is a website talking about the US Congress inquiry into wasted lives, the last hours of WW I, the french Marshall Foch and what military men think of ceasefires.

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-i-wasted-lives-on-armistice-day.htm

Read at your peril — may contain half-lies, half-truths and propaganda.

hawaiianguy on Sat, 24th May 2008 2:42 am 



Pershing didn’t put an end to the spate of violence in the Moro Province despite alleged use of pork to deal with so-called Islamic “terrorists.” His victory over the Moros at the Bud Bagsak battle in June 1913 didn’t even deter the Moros. When he bowed out of office as governor of that province later that year, he proclaimed that Moroland was already secured from the threats posed by juramentados, those suicidal fighters who would go on a rampage killing Christians and Americans until they themselves got killed in the process.

Such was not the case. The violence in Moroland continued until shortly before the grant of Commonwealth status in 1935. This is well documented by many reports. Francis Burton Harrison’s diary (then adviser to Manuel L. Quezon) partly testifies to this fact. (See MLQ3’s reference). Also, Vic Hurley wrote more elaborately on Moroland after Pershing left, but never mentioned such atrocity associated with use of pigs against Moros. In fact, he valorized the Moros as fighters, not as terrorists: “As fighting men, they take first rank in the pages of martial history.” (http://www.bakbakan.com/swishkb.html)

UPnS is probably right. Accounts on Pershing’s exploits using porcine matter to terrorize those juramentados may be more urban legend than truth. His biographer, Dr. Frank Vandiver, also denied it.

I consulted Dr. Frank E. Vandiver, professor of history at Texas A&M University and author of “Black Jack: The Life and Times of John J. Pershing,” to find out if there’s any truth to the above, and he responded via email that in his opinion the story is apocryphal. “I never found any indication that it was true in extensive research on his Moro experiences,” he wrote. “This kind of thing would have run completely against his character.” http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/noframes/read/90763

Abe N. Margallo on Sat, 24th May 2008 3:50 am 



Exploits like Pershing’s are thought to be apocryphal since they have not been captured in photos (as in the Abu Ghraib torture) or in tapes (as in the “Hello, Garci” tapes).

Moreover, in the case of the Garci tapes, GMA partisans also urge that what has been memorialized remains “legally doubtful” for lack of “proper authentication.”

Bencard on Sat, 24th May 2008 4:24 am 



not merely “doubtful”, abe. like it or not, the alleged tapes (regardless of authenticity) are simply not “evidence”. any speculation based on that is still a speculation. we’ve gone through this can of worms before. when are you going to think like a law professor that i think your are? partisan or not, let’s not be intellectually irresponsible trying to fool the laymen in this blog.

Bencard on Sat, 24th May 2008 4:42 am 



i shudder to think how many “historical accounts” exist that are nothing but tall tales, fictional romanticism, partisan interpretation, or half-truths based on defective information. history, as it transpires in real time, is always written by the victors. the vanquished almost never get to tell their stories in a believable way because, in most cases, they have no proof.

hawaiianguy on Sat, 24th May 2008 4:57 am 



Abe,

Considering the technology at that time was very poor(primitive photography, no tape recorder, and of course, the first airplane was invented in 1905), it’s hard to capture events like those. But then, there were US writers and servicemen, many of whom didn’t respect or like Pershing. They could have used his “unacceptable military tactics” as cannon fodder to demolish his integrity. Moroland history tells us that Pershing rose to the rank of General over the shoulders of some 80 promotable officers before he assumed the post as governor of Moro Province in 1909.

Pershing’s own files in the archives of Washington, D.C. and other libraries also didn’t give a hint that he maltreated (or “tortured”), or ordered his Moro captives to be killed. He admitted, however, that he’d rather shoot them as long as they were firing back or hacking Americans with their krises. In his memoirs, he detested American officers who played rough with Moros in a fair fight. While he regarded Moros as “savages” (like the American Indians that he fought), he fought them fairly according to established rules of engagement. He was non-partisan compared to those brutal officers in Moroland and Iraq. As a testimony, he earned the admiration of many Moro leaders (Amai Manabilang, Datu Grande, Datu Piang, Arolas Tulawie, Sultan Kiram, etc.) who, after being conquered, would rather submit and defer to American authorities than follow Christian leaders like Quezon and Osmena.

Now, those GMA partisans are entirely different. They never have an iota of professionalism and objectivity. The Garci tapes are genuine despite those questions (due to editing) hurled by her lapdogs about authenticity and legality. Those who come from Garci country would not have any doubt that Garci was the operator of GMA’s cheating machine in the Muslim areas of Mindanao. Sadly, many Muslim officials sided with or condoned cheating rather than promoted fairness and justice. That’s a far cry during Pershing’s time in Mindanao, when the Moros would rather not cooperate with the Christian leaders in Manila. Or would only do so as a matter of palabas.

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 6:29 am 



The Filipino public, though, seem to be more concerned with personal safety and is willing to strengthen the powers of the state against criminals and terrorists. One of the latest laws passed — Human Security Act 2007 — while the Anti-Torture Bill has been in discussion as far back as 2004.

The Filipino culture is a supportive environment for torture — a large proportion of the Filipino public is approving when a pickpocket is pinag-babatukan or even kicked and punched by the police and police-trustees inside the jail.

The Asian Human Rights Commission bewails the lack of a Philippine law criminalizing torture. As the AHRC cites lack of leadership by GMA and the Philippine congress, AHRC also notes that the legal community is at fault (Filipino lawyers argue the Constitution already prohibits torture even when they know the Constitution is toothless without “…an enabling law that defines torture as a criminal act and provides adequate remedies.”}

The AHRC notes — the tacit support for torture is also endemic not only among lawmakers and lawyers “.. but also the public.”

People’s “understanding of torture is so flawed,” the AHRC said, “that torture has subconsciously become an acceptable practice, a normal part of criminal investigations. Brutality and cruelty in police stations and military camps? Any person suspected of committing a crime, in many Filipinos’ view, deserve to be abused,” the AHRC said. “As a result of this attitude, the basic foundation of criminal justice — the presumption of innocence – is diluted and becomes irrelevant.”

————————–

Stupid AHRC — must be the British legal background or whatever. It is just wordsmithing if AHRC think it can present a connection with willigness to discard the presumption of innocence with supportive of torture .

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 8:49 am 



“The Filipino culture is a supportive environment for torture ”

Sad but true.

Our kuyog mentality,pag may sumigaw ng manghihipo, o mandurukot.

Kahit di naman nakita makikigulpi sila.

well madami din naman dedma na walang pakialam.

On GMA that we have discussed the can of worms a million times over. The positive side is acknowledging that these are indeed can of worms .

Pero it seems that acknowledging is nothing;pagpalagay natin si Glria ang humirit nito:… sige na, me kinausap akong taga comelec anong masama dun,nag sorry na ako?

O sige na kinausap ko na ang nga taga zte, anong masama,kailangan pa bang maging state visit para mangimbita ng investors?

I agree that most stuff maybe tall tales,half truths even those written in history books,autobiographies,the heck I could even imagine someone writing that the president never apologized and the president never made an unofficial state visit to counter claims of other writers who writes the opposite.

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 9:04 am 



Saw the link cvj,

Parang gumamit ng sebo de macho ang mga dancers.

Going back to that independence war in india;

here is what’s according to wikipedia, regarded by many as reliable,with about the same number of people who thinks it is not as reliable as it claim to be.

“The final spark was provided by the controversy over the new Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle. To load the new rifle, the sepoys had to bite the cartridge open. It was believed that the paper cartridges that were standard issue with the rifle were greased with lard (pork fat) which was regarded as unclean by Muslims, or tallow (beef fat), regarded as sacred to Hindus.[15]. East India Company officers first became aware of the impending trouble over the cartridges in January, when they received reports of an altercation between a high-caste sepoy and a low-caste labourer at Dum Dum.[16] The labourer had taunted the sepoy that by biting the cartridge, he had himself lost caste, although at this time the Dum-Dum arsenal had not actually started to produce the new round, nor had a single practice shot fired.[17] On January 27 Colonel Richard Birch (the Military Secretary) ordered that all cartridges issued from depots were to be free from grease, and that Sepoys could grease them themselves using whatever mixture ‘they may prefer’.[18] This however, merely caused many Sepoys to be convinced that the rumours were true and that their fears were justified.
”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857

cvj on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:00 am 



Karl, yeah whether rumor or not, the soldiers believed it enough to rebel. In the wikipedia entry on Mangal Panday, it also explains that:

The mutineers were of the opinion that this was an intentional act of the British, with the aim of defiling their religions.

Commandant Wheeler of the 34th BNI was known as a zealous Christian preacher, and this may also have impacted the Company’s behaviour. The husband of Captain Wilma Halliday of 56th BNI had the Bible printed in Urdu and Nagri and distributed among the sepoys, thus raising suspicions amongst them that the British were intent on converting them to Christianity

…which goes back to my original point (at May 23rd, 2008, 12:31 pm) that we have to be careful and engage in such a way that will not offend religious and community sensibilities that will fuel further conflict among fellow Filipinos.

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:12 am 



cvj,

well said.

TonGuE-tWisTeD on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:16 am 



KG,
Going by the same logic someone here said, I suppose we shouldn’t believe that that rebellion was caused by, of all things, fat, unless there are evidences to prove it.

Further, why don’t we throw away the Bible and all those history books? Life is real easy, isn’t it? For once, we should think like lawyers.

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:22 am 



But how sensitive?

Frontpage magazine has an article:

Outlawing the PIG by Janet Levy:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=B4D7EA5D-074C-4D34-AB04-71E9354504CB

“The practice of political correctness may soon be tallying another casualty: the pig. Increasingly, as America and the rest of the Western world continue accommodating Muslim religious demands, pork food products are being singled out for removal from dining tables and pig-related trinkets banished from the desks of office workers.

If this continues, good ol’ American food, such as barbeque replete with hot dogs and ribs and the typical American breakfast of eggs, bacon and sausage, might be seen as the equivalent of political poison. Could outright censorship of pig depictions in drawings, pig references in literary works and pig portrayals in movies be far behind? Could the well-known, cartoon figure Porky Pig become a cultural embarrassment of our unenlightened past as we fear to utter the “P” word?”

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:33 am 



“Further, why don’t we throw away the Bible and all those history books? Life is real easy, isn’t it? For once, we should think like lawyers.
”

That would make life MUCH MUCH easier!

Hay,Naku We should live in Bizzaro I mean Benign0 world ,were everything is so simple!

Abe N. Margallo on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:33 am 



Bencard, I could no more fool the laymen in this blog who can do their own vetting of the many exchanges here about the Garci tapes can of worms than I could the millions of Filipinos who have formed their own judgment upon actually hearing their president from a recorded phone conversation asking Garci to pad the presidential election results so that she would win by a million votes.

Is Sabrina Harman’s photo with her thumbs-up and smile over a dead Abu Ghraib detainee in body bag speculation based on speculation? Or that too tells us of another can of worms?

Hawaiianguy, all of history has been illegitimate, the saying goes. Even Hitler has alluded to the genocide of the native Indians by the Americans to justify his massacre of the Jews.

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:37 am 



where everything is so simple,I mean.

sa dinami dami ng mga errors ko, tama na muna ang ikorek ko ang isa.

Bencard on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:50 am 



there you go again, abe. your ears were just hearing too much of something that wasn’t there. it was like a mirage that comes out of desperation for a “smoking gun”. you can keep trying but i assure you, the result will never be different.

cvj on Sat, 24th May 2008 11:00 am 



Karl, reminds me of my late colleague in Malaysia who quipped that the movie ‘Babe’ was only 15 minutes from start to ending when it was shown in their local theaters.

The author may be correct in her observations but to single out the Muslims reflects more on her prejudice. We go back to the postmodern concept of the ‘Other’ brought up by Hawaiianguy above.

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 11:46 am 



For a view of what Mohatma Gandhi had achieved for India and Muslim-Hindu relations, click here:

The Guiding Path of Gandhi
by V. Sundaram

http://www.boloji.com/analysis2/0164.htm

This item may be in store for Mindanao.
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=197&page=22

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 12:04 pm 



Cvj,
Sorry to hear about your late colleague.

Yah, singling out muslims is preejudicial.
The author did mention the jews, but only to support her bias against the muslims.

maiba tayo tungkol sa pagworship ng mga non muslim sa saudi,etc.

Come to think of it,siguro tinotolerate na ng mga muslims ang discrete practice of the non muslimns to worship.

Imposible naman na di nila alam ang mga ginagawa ng mga ofws natin,na tinelivize pa yata at prinint pa yata sa dyaryo na gumagawa sila ng paraan para mag misa at any innovative way para magdasal.

mindanaoan on Sat, 24th May 2008 12:08 pm 



mlq3, do you know for a fact when and where this land-grabbing by christians from muslims happened? because i’m a mindanaoan and what i know is that it’s not safe to buy a piece of land from a muslim. there’s a risk some descendant or relative will claim back the land for the simple reason they didn’t give their approval. that’s true even if you’re a muslim yourself. a christian grabbing a piece of land from a muslim is calling for disaster.

KG, erap was applauded here in mindanao for attacking the milf

cvj on Sat, 24th May 2008 12:09 pm 



UPn, i see you also have soulmates in India. If that kind of tribal attitude has a significant presence over there, no wonder Gandhi was shot.

cvj on Sat, 24th May 2008 12:21 pm 



Karl, if that’s the case then its good to hear. The type of Islam (Wahhabism) practiced in Saudi Arabia is more conservative than in other places. When i was in Malaysia, i could go to mass anytime if i wanted to.

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 1:56 pm 



“KG, erap was applauded here in mindanao for attacking the milf”

OK,how cam I argue against first hand knowledge,but has the milf’s strength anyhow diminished?

“Karl, if that’s the case then its good to hear. The type of Islam (Wahhabism) practiced in Saudi Arabia is more conservative than in other places. When i was in Malaysia, i could go to mass anytime if i wanted to.”

Maybe they are still conservative,just wshful thinking that they are no longer that conservative,considering the stories I hear about how creative the pinoys in hearing mass.

mindanaoan on Sat, 24th May 2008 2:29 pm 



kg, like what supremo said, the mindanao problem will not go away. the peace process is just a cottage industry so they have something to do while recovering strength. what else is there to do after having been beaten? the government only needs to project superior arms and all will be well.

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 2:59 pm 



Ok mindanaoan,got you.

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 5:42 pm 



“the government only needs to project superior arms and all will be well.”

What brand of projector will they use?

Kutkkut on Sat, 24th May 2008 5:51 pm 



Is there any crystal ball which says we will be all chinese in 3 generations?

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 5:55 pm 



Joke only Mindanaoan.

I got lots of relatives there in Mindanao from my mother’s side (in Davao);Misa ang surname nila .kaya importante din sa akin kung anong nagyayari sa Mindanao.

I just wish all will be well in Mindanao.

mindanaoan on Sat, 24th May 2008 6:56 pm 



kg, Liesegang DV900! hehehe. mindanao is much better now than two decades ago

KG on Sat, 24th May 2008 7:24 pm 



Funny thing you have mentioned two decades. It has been almost two decades since my last visit.

Nice brand btw. hehe

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 8:23 pm 



cvj: I thought M. Gandhi was shot by a Muslim?

I don’t know what you picked up from those 2 articles I linked to about India, but it seems the message about Gandhi is that he ultimately betrayed the country, that he misread the thinking of the Muslim leaders he allied himself with:

By lending support to the Khilafat Movement of Ali Brothers in 1920, Mahatma Gandhi inaugurated a new era of a fresh wave of Hindu-Muslim riots. Mahatma Gandhi was a confused man.

and that M. Gandhi practiced political deception.

During the Moplah rebellion in Kerala in 1921, thousands of Hindu men, women and children were killed by the Muslims. Hundreds of women were raped. And yet Gandhi supported the Moplahs and not the Hindu victims of Moplah violence and oppression. In fact Gandhi had no sympathy for the Hindus. Mahatma Gandhi wrote in his ‘Young India’, ‘it is wrong to say that Islam has employed force. No religion in this world has spread through the use of force. No Musalman, to my knowledge, has ever approved of compulsion.’ Does this not show that Gandhi practiced political deception?

But as usual, one has to beware propaganda, misguided souls, appeasement and treachery.

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 9:16 pm 



My mistake. Wikipedia (which writes of Gandhi more glowingly than the 2 articles I pointed to) says the assassin, Nathuram Godse, was a Hindu radical with links to the extremist Hindu Mahasabha, who held Gandhi responsible for weakening India

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 9:33 pm 



I never knew this, but Mohatma Gandhi had several “names” especially during his last years (and even in today’s India), to include “Father of Pakistan”.

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 9:39 pm 



Click here for a description of the mindset of the Hindu assasin:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jan/30arvind.htm

which included this:

‘During more than thirty years of the undisputed leadership of the Mahatma there were more desecration of temples, more forcible and fraudulent conversions, more outrages on women and finally the loss of one third of the country.

‘Gandhiji was, paradoxically, a violent pacifist… He had often acted contrary to his professed principles and if it was for appeasing the Muslim, he hardly had any scruple in doing so.

‘By the Act of 1919 separate electorates were enlarged and communal representation was continued not only in the legislative and local bodies but extended even within the Cabinet… Government patronage to Muslims in the name of Minority protection penetrated throughout the body politic of the Indian State and the Mahatma’s slogans were no match against this wholesale corruption of the Muslim mind. The position began to deteriorate and by 1926 it became patent to all that Government had won all along the line but Gandhiji… went on conceding one undemocratic demand after another to the Muslim League in the vain hope of enlisting its support in the national struggle.

—
‘Gandhiji is being referred to as the Father of the Nation — an epithet of high reverence. But if so, he has failed in his paternal duty… Had Gandhiji really maintained his opposition to the creation of Pakistan, the Muslim League could have had no strength to claim it and the Britishers also could not have created it in spite of all their utmost efforts… The reason was… the people of this country were… vehement in their opposition to Pakistan. But Gandhiji played false with the people. He has proved to be the Father of Pakistan.

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:27 pm 



It was not by the Muslim citizenry of India of his time until they were goaded and “inspired”… it was by political leaders (of the Muslim League). Mohatma Gandhi may simply have been not bright enough and not tactically-adept enough. Even Gandhi, in the months before his death, was feeling despondent and depressed that his “non-violence” principles were failing to bring India the goals that he – Gandhi — had desired for it. There was no way for Gandhi to not have known the bloodbaths — citizens against citizens.

Gandhi was against partitioning, but the principle of “unintended consequences” overtook him; appeasing the Muslim League proved a mistake for Gandhi. Gandhi, too, probably was among who said “We’ve been had!!!!”.

UP n student on Sat, 24th May 2008 10:35 pm 



And cvj…. do you believe that there are Gandhi-like non-violence practitioners among the current leadership of the “Mindanao separatist movement” ? Do you believe that the Mindanao residents (even just the 18% who are Muslims) want to be governed by the separatists?

cvj on Sun, 25th May 2008 4:40 am 



UPn, the Satyagraha of Gandhi does not assume that the adversary also subscribes to non-violence. It’s similar to Jesus Christ’s turn the other cheek philosophy which so-called Christians seem to have forgotten.

I think the role of moderates on both sides is to make sure the war freaks on their own side don’t takeover the agenda. Yes, i believe that there are peacemakers on both sides. If you take a systemic viewpoint, as i do, the real struggle is not between ‘Christians’ and ‘Muslims’ but between the Peacemakers and the War Party of both sides. George W. Bush and Bin Laden are actually allies since war serves both their agenda.

The last thing i want to see is for the Philippines to be another Yugoslavia (or Rwanda).

Bencard on Sun, 25th May 2008 7:37 am 



peacemaking should not be confused with appeasement. the former only works when both opposing parties are willing to give up demands that are declared non-negotiable. the latter seldom ever works, if at all, and often leads to a shooting war because the “appeased” is never satisfied, and the “appeaser” sends a wrong signal of being weak or a pushover.

judging by the declared intentions of the muslim leadership in mindanao, i doubt the dispute will ever be settled by other than a decisive armed conflict similar to the u.s. civil war between the union forces and the confederates. of course, the politico-religious separatists will never vow to complete defeat just like the palestinians against the israelis and will continually wage a protracted, even endless warfare, as long as dying for their cause is regarded by them as a ticket to “paradise”.

jude on Sun, 25th May 2008 8:50 am 



“. . .the moro leaders had at times preferred the american to the christian filipino side: support for the americans was strong in muslim mindanao even when christian areas went through an initial period of ambiguity because of the abandonement of bataan and corregidor.” – mlq3

Mahilig sa “imported” ang mga kapatid natin na Muslim. Ayaw ng lokal. Pilipino pa rin sila.

Kidding aside, even on their ancestry, prominent Filipino-Muslim families trace their lineage back to foreign shores, whether to Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, peninsular Malaysia or Borneo. The most noble are those who can link their families to the Prophet Muhammad.

The importance of “tarsilas”, literally meaning “name-chain”, or written genealogy, illustrates the importance Filipino Muslims entrust to lineage. And the Filipino-Muslim nobility always trace their ancestry to Middle Eastern or South Asian forebears, preferably extending all the way to the Prophet Muhammad.

For example, among the Maguindanao bangsamoro, nobility is linked to their apical ancestor, Sarip Kabungsuwan. According to the tarsilas, Sarip Kabungsuwan was the son of Jusul Asikin, the daughter of the Sultan of Johore, and Sarip Ali Zain-ul Abiden from Mecca. Thus, Kabungsuwan was the offspring of a princess of the Melaka royal family and, more significantly, the son of an Arab sharif (the original Arabic form of “Sarip”), and hence a direct descendent of the Prophet Muhammad.

The tarsilas relate how Kabungsuwan arrived by chance at the mouth of the Pulangi River in Cotabato and began to convert local chieftains and their followers to Islam. He married the daughters of some of these chieftains, thus establishing in Mindanao a barabangsa, or royal lineage, whose members claimed a sacred genealogy, tracing their origins to the Prophet Muhammad.

Among the Tausugs, the founder of the Sulu Sultanate, Hashim Abubakar, was the son of a princess of Johore and an Arab sharif who traces his ancestry to Muhammad.

It must be noted that much of the Filipino-Muslim elite, true to the self-perpetuating instincts of the upper classes, collaborated with Spanish and American colonizers in order to preserve their privileged status.

KG on Sun, 25th May 2008 9:49 am 



I learnt a lot Jude,et al!

On all out war.
For me an all out war is not a solution.
The reason we would not know the armory of MILF plus the others. We not know how much the JI has suppiled them,even others like ordinary arms dealers and gun runners including our AFP.

I am not mocking my dad’s modernization program for the AFP, because it is not his fault kaya di ito matuloy tuloy at iba ang nangyari. I am against all out war and I said that it was the civilian/lawyer dnd personnel who convinced Erap of the all out war,but I would not really know if I am giving ERAP too much credit for that all out war. I am speaking for myself against all out war.Erap’s war was not even allout, it was just throwing out the MILf out of their strong hold, they did not touch the Abus,konti lang sila bakit di pa inubos.Don’t blame our geography for that.

sa ngayon,our navy can’t even outrun the pirates, our special forces like SWAG can be outsmarted or out intelled.

I just did not want to argue with mindanaoan,one to sawa ;but we can not just simply project that we have more arms.

I may have to agree that what happens in today’s peace talks are trying to make everybody happy,which is appeasement in every sense of the word.

What do we do, ask the americans to Visit us forever?
Sa mga news tuwang tuwa na mga taga Basilan at taga sulu tuwing darating sila.Now Palawan is next,is that the projection of strength mindananoan is talking about?

Having them here for so long even made us fool ourselves that we can do without them. all out war? come on!

mindanaoan on Sun, 25th May 2008 11:14 am 



KG, i don’t know who’s arguing for all-out war. the milf has around 10,000 to 13,000 ragtag fighters, too small to fight the afp. like what erap did, they’re easy to crush. it’s only for show, to have some leverage to negotiate.

KG on Sun, 25th May 2008 11:35 am 



I have to apologize Mindanaoan,but it is more on this comment below,which was not from you(which come to think of it has a point).

“judging by the declared intentions of the muslim leadership in mindanao, i doubt the dispute will ever be settled by other than a decisive armed conflict similar to the u.s. civil war between the union forces and the confederates. of course, the politico-religious separatists will never vow to complete defeat just like the palestinians against the israelis and will continually wage a protracted, even endless warfare, as long as dying for their cause is regarded by them as a ticket to “paradise”.

I am not even saying this comment is out of touch,because it is not.

But thanks for the clarification,anyway.
Sorry for giving the impression of argument,mindanaoan.Nalimutan ko ihand break,temporary foot break lang ang nagawa ko.

vic on Sun, 25th May 2008 11:50 am 



I don’t believe the conflicts in Mindanao can be settled by Force. It had been done before, being done now and it can only grew worse, unless both parties, the National Government and the Muslims Leaders sit down and Thresh out all the issues with the Give and Take negotiations.

The armed segments of the Muslim “separatists” are not substantial and even defeating them can not assure the complete victory against the movement. There had been grievances that were not fully addressed and leaders on both sides are up to this point have their own self interests to protect to even contemplate a negotiated settlement.
There are many politicians and Big Time business people in the South who profited from the Status Quo and most of them will be doing their darnedest best to see that the Status Quo remains..

Bencard on Sun, 25th May 2008 12:05 pm 



i don’t need to be patronized by the likes of you, kg, or whatever you are. if you have any problem with my comment, you address it to me. if not an “all out war” what do you have in mind? do you have a better idea that will work?

Bencard on Sun, 25th May 2008 12:24 pm 



do you know how long have they been “negotiating”, vic? isn’t there an end to this moro-moro? when a secessionist group wants to grab a portion of a State’s territory (under whatever claim) literally the old-fashioned way, the only answer is FORCE. the alternative is surrender, with or without peace.

mindanaoan on Sun, 25th May 2008 12:29 pm 



“I don’t believe the conflicts in Mindanao can be settled by Force”

“There are many politicians and Big Time business people in the South who profited from the Status Quo and most of them will be doing their darnedest best to see that the Status Quo remains” – vic

you are correct, vic. in fact, the conflict cannot be settled by anything. and some people are profitting from the endless negotiations.

vic on Sun, 25th May 2008 12:38 pm 



mindanaon, very obvious, isn’t it? but we can only wish that time will come that there will be a “real” leaders that will rise above all these to finally resolve the centuries of conflicts.

well, even up here in the North, there are still pockets of ongoing negotiations with our First Nations issues. And there are hundred of Tribes and that is not easy, but most been settled long time ago.

mindanaoan on Sun, 25th May 2008 12:40 pm 



i mean, is there a place anywhere in the world with a muslim minority which doesn’t have some kind of conflict?

jude on Sun, 25th May 2008 12:57 pm 



“i doubt the dispute will ever be settled by other than a decisive armed conflict similar to the u.s. civil war between the union forces and the confederates.” – Bencard

Very different times, very different circumstances from an American Civil War scenario. As KG points out, our armed forces aren’t ready for protracted war. They can’t even finish off the Abu Sayyaf. And if it comes to all-out war, what assurance is there that Malaysia or Indonesia will not give aid and comfort to their fellow Muslims? Not to mention involvement by JI and Al Quaida. Furthermore, I don’t think our fragile economy can take the burden of a civil war.

Civil-war era U.S.A. was not as susceptible to intervention from outside forces because of its inaccessibility and because modern methods of transport were not available. There was also no reason for major players to intervene because the issues did not affect them, the war being more of a struggle for supremacy between the industrialized Northern States and the agricultural Southern States.

If the purpose for going to war is in order not to “appease” the Muslims in Mindanao, there are better ways of dealing with that problem. We cannot compare the Philippines with the U.S., which is not only the world’s biggest superpower, it is presently the world’s only superpower. Only the U.S. can afford the arrogance of demanding contrite behavior from rivals or adversaries without dialogue or consultations.

The U.S. boasts of the world’s largest and most modern stockpile of weapons of mass destructions and it has demonstrated its willingness to use these weapons, not only to eliminate opposition to its goals, but for no other reason than to take over the assets and resources of another country, as it did with Iraq. Of course, several justifications were made including the now-proven lies that Iraq was itself stockpiling WMD’s.

Because of the U.S.’s vast and superior arsenal, it is easy for right-wing American politicians to “walk the walk” and “talk the talk” of all-out war. Threatening the world by proclaiming that “you are either for us, or against us”, as George Bush did, is the arrogant attitude of an aggressor who wants to intimidate the world into submission. And with the specter of “preemptive strike” (another buzzword in fashion with the right) hovering any country who disagrees with the U.S., it is actually the entire world who has to “appease” the American bully.

The American far-right has brought out the word “appeasement” from the dictionary and made it the dirtiest word in the lexicon of political jargon. They have buried “diplomacy” far from public consciousness and made it synonymous with the horrible “A” word, which has currently surpassed the “L” word as the most repulsive word in right-wing vocabulary. Conveniently forgetting that diplomacy was once practiced with great skill by distinguished conservative Republicans like Dwight Eisenhower, Henry Kissinger, Richard Nixon (his legacy as President may be have been doomed, but his diplomatic contributions, such as rapprochement with China, were seminal and remain to this day), Gen. Alexander Haig and George Schultz.

KG on Sun, 25th May 2008 1:01 pm 



Bebcard,
I say this in your face.

I never doubted whatever you are, I take your word that you are an immigration lawyer,who left bicol before martial law.

That’s all I have and i need to know.

siguro, dahil minsan nababanggit ko si erpat, sabagay dapat hindi, he is a nobody compared to you, pero he does not mind being a nobody. Ang akin naman sino pa ba ang maipagmamalaki kundi ang magulang natin.
ako wala I am just an ordinary schmoe,no credentials and resumes to brag about.

I tried my best not to lock horns with you. Ikaw what are you? Ang sama pakinggan di ba?

Kahit na nong suggestion natin tungkol sa war and peace and appeasement, in the end it does not even matter.

Ps
call it patronizing, I call it coming to my senses that you may have a point,afterall.

Karl Garcia

UP n student on Sun, 25th May 2008 1:02 pm 



The Philippines can use more soldiers — hopefully 20,000 but at least 5,000 additional soldiers in Mindanao to crush the MILF.

For every additional 5,000 soldiers (privates, m/sgts, lieutenants, captains and other officers), the yearly salary cost will be approximately be P1.3Billion. LOgistics and operational costs (transport, food/medicine, ammunition, weaponry) can easily exceed P2Billion a year (especially with extensive use of helicopters).

Nominally, the Philippines can “afford” more soldiers for counter-insurgency. The Philippines spends 0.9% of GDP for its armed forces compared to Cambodia (3%), Thailand(1.8%), Indonesia (3%), Argentina (1.4%), Bangladesh(1.5%), Cuba(3.8%), India(2.5%) or Malaysia(2.03%). Unfortunately, the Philippines underspends for its military despite active combat against separatists and bandits.

3 x 250 x 3 = 2,200 x 1000 = $2.2Mil
5000 x 100 x 50 = 30mil = $12M

$30Mil = 1200

KG on Sun, 25th May 2008 1:39 pm 



Ok, Cat is right that this not a mutual admiration club.This is not a friendster social network forum as well.

If one gets in your nerves,get into their nerves as well.
That I learned from..ay di bale na baka sabihin nagpapatronize lang ako.Gusto daw nya direchahan e di kay bencard.

Ok going by Bencard point of an all out war and going by UPN’s chart above.
An all out war is not feasible as of now.

What’s the solution,then.
Concentrate on defense spending???

What model shall we follow, The north Korean’s and let their people starve?

Or the US Model? A seemingly spread out budget with taking a look at it ,you will find out that trillions are spent for defense.

or just fllow UPNs chart and just be at par with the countries mentioned?

This I know is being studied periodically,having witnessed by being a miron a multisectoral meeting.

On what to do with our budget,maybe it’s time we go to those budget workshops, para malaman naman ng mga tao kung pano nagbubudget at di na lang palagi sa pork barrel ang blame.

Siguro dito din mag allocate ng time ang media,I saw one above in MLQ3’s post.

The Ca t on Sun, 25th May 2008 3:25 pm 



with the muslims broke down, afterwards, was when the policy of sending settlers to mindanao, originally to unpopulated areas, began to result in land-grabbing by christians from muslims.

This would never happened, Christians grabbing land from the Muslims.

It was not a policy, it was the land for the landless program of Ra mon Magsaysay which drove several settlers to Mindanao. When I was a kid, we had a neighbor in QC who left his 16 hectare land in Mindanao after risking his family to the danger of the wilds while clearing the area to prepare it for farming.

According to him the neighbor Muslims did not disturb them while they were doing the cleaning but once the land was productive, the stalking started until they left everything for fear of their lives. They never recovered the land. And the old man said that it happened to almost all those who like them also responded to the call of the government to develop Mindanao. The Muslims claimed that it is their land. The lands were untitled because they were actually forests.

Christians grabbing the land? Gusto ba nilang mamatay ang buong pamilya nila.

mindanaoan on Sun, 25th May 2008 3:35 pm 



The Ca t, it only happened to those who made the mistake of occupying lands near predominantly muslim areas.

The Ca t on Sun, 25th May 2008 3:41 pm 



The Filipino culture is a supportive environment for torture — a large proportion of the Filipino public is approving when a pickpocket is pinag-babatukan or even kicked and punched by the police and police-trustees inside the jail.

Possible reasons why the pickpocket is pinagbabatukan.

1. the pickpocket is invading the territory of the pickpockets under someone’s protection.

2. to comply to the order of the boss of the syndicate of the pickpockets to punish guys who are caught.

3. to show the people that they have already punished the culprit before they are released when the pickpocket’s patron orders them.

When I lost my 24 karat baht necklace from a snatcher, I contacted a friend who contacted also a friend. The friend asked the place where it was snatched.

So they knew who is in “charge” of that territory.

When a friend was pickpocketed and he was able to catch the thief, the friend-police asked him to punch the guy all his might. The cop said that the pickpocket will be out in just a few hours courtesy of the “ninongs”. Do you think these people are freelancers? Nope.

These are things that you do not read from links.

The Ca t on Sun, 25th May 2008 3:44 pm 



Oh btw, the torture is not Filipino’s. It is a prison culture everywhere and anywhere.

TheColdKing on Sun, 25th May 2008 6:46 pm 



HINDI TITIGIL ANG GULO SA MINDANAO KASI AYAW NG AFP, WALA NA SILANG BUDGET KUNG WALA NANG GUERRA .

The Ca t on Sun, 25th May 2008 6:55 pm 



HINDI TITIGIL ANG GULO SA MINDANAO KASI AYAW NG AFP, WALA NA SILANG BUDGET KUNG WALA NANG GUERRA .

And the arms dealers would lose a lot of business both from the military and the rebels/terrorists.

And the corrupt military officers will lose sideline selling
ammunitions and weaponry to their enemies. Whoa…

And the foreign contractors/builders will lose business of there are no more roads and buildings to be reconstructed after bombing.

Hohoho, according to my friend, an international consultant who frequently travel to
mindanao and other wartorn countries, his escorts in visiting their projects are the rebels themselves.

KG on Sun, 25th May 2008 8:28 pm 



“the pickpocket will be out in just a few hours courtesy of the “ninongs”. Do you think these people are freelancers? Nope. ”

same thing with car nappers.pero di nga lang nakukuyog ang mga ito .suggestion to others, kahit na makita mo pabayaan mo na kahit auto mo ,mabaril ka pa.driver nga namin sinabihan pa namin wag ng magsorry tapos namin macarnappan dahil kahit sa amin mangyari yun,bibigay din namin,we had to let go of the driver of course ,wala na syang idradrive.

KG on Sun, 25th May 2008 8:37 pm 



speaking of crimes.

Me nakuha akong chain letter, pero from a classmate,kaya di ko binura.

For guys with children studying in DLSU, the cops are praying on those open cars and plant drugs,then take you to an atm to avoid jail time.

Copy furnished na yung mga manila politician classmates namin pero alam namin wala ding magyayari,sabi lang nila they will look into it.

Bencard on Sun, 25th May 2008 9:47 pm 



jude, diplomacy is not appeasement, never has been, never will be. while the latter is a dubious tool of diplomacy, i see it as nothing but giving in to extortion or blackmail. and you know how blackmails go – they never end.

the last i checked, the u.s. civil war happened almost 200 years age when the federalist union did not have “vast and superior arsenal” or weapons of mass destruction which they have never even imagined at the time. they suffered many defeats before they triumphed in the end.

foreign intervention from other muslim nations, particularly in the immediate neighborhood, is a possibility but highly unlikely. malaysia and indonesia have their own housekeeping to do, and they are not exactly wallowing in wealth. the last thing they need is invite our non-muslim allies, e.g anzus, u.k., japan. sokor, etc. to the fray. the mindanao conflict is purely a domestic affair which the philippines has a right not to be interfered with. external attack could trigger actions under mutual defense treaties with the west, who themselves have axes to grind, and interests to protect, against violent muslim regimes.

left-wing policies of appeasement and surrender must be rejected at all cost.

Bencard on Sun, 25th May 2008 10:00 pm 



btw, i don’t think think america needs “appeasement” from the rest of the world. just live and let live and follow the “rule of law” and i bet it won’t bother anyone.

Bencard on Sun, 25th May 2008 10:27 pm 



kg, i now see where you’re coming from. sorry if i sounded a bit belligerent. i know we don’t see eye to eye on a lot of things but i never see you disrespectful of others in any sense of the word.

UP n student on Sun, 25th May 2008 10:56 pm 



ColdKing: Really, you should train yourself to respond to information to be more goal-seeking and less a defeatist. The Philippine military is seriously underfunded (0.9% of GDP versus our immediate neighbors — Thailand 1.8%, Indonesia 3%, Malaysia 2%) and needs more headcount and resources.

A much more disciplined and professional police and military that responds positively to the chain of command AND the constitutional process (i.e. human rights, rule-of-law) does the country good. Professionalization of the police and military (not just helicopters, trucks, weapons but more importantly in community action, information gathering, crowd-control) can be achieved with better training, more funding. I doubt Pinas will ever “do a Castro” (3% of Cuba-GDP for military) but the desire of our soldiers to serve the country well should be matched by the willingness of the Filipino citizens to pony up the money to better fund the military and police.

It is easy to compute the salary-cost, but think the value — less threat of a terrorist attack in GenSan city — with 5,000 additional soldiers put against the MILF. Think of the value if, before getting sent out into the field (and then every 2 years thereafter) every soldier (and CAFGU) receives an extra 4 weeks of education and training in crowd-control/ community-action/ human-rights.

UP n student on Sun, 25th May 2008 11:17 pm 



typo — not ” 4 weeks” but “4 days educ/training in community action and civics (rights and duties of citizens)” for every soldier (and CAFGU) every 2 years.

Bencard on Sun, 25th May 2008 11:59 pm 



great ideas, upnstudent. every pinoy should think along that line. all candidates for national office should be required to make a personal commitment to work for it, and renegades should be politically ostracized, and socially shunned like a leper. a tall order, but we can do it in progression starting with the present administration. let’s put the pressure where it is most needed – not the counterproductive “patalsikin” mantra at the first sign of possible political wrongdoing.

vic on Mon, 26th May 2008 12:09 am 



UPn, here I found a nice web site where there are different ways to measure the defence expenditures and one just may not give the true picture of the real “thing”.

NATO itself uses three different measurements in its annual report on members’ military expenditures:1: defence expenditures in national and U.S. currencies, 2: defence expenditures as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP),3: and defence expenditures per capita.

Among analysts, the least common comparison is based on per capita because the military spending of countries with large populations is understated. A per capita comparison for China or India, for example, is not very helpful because of their large populations.

The two most common measurements are real dollars, usually converted and expressed in U.S. dollar amounts, and defence spending as a percentage of the country’s GDP, which measures the output of its entire economy.

The first method, comparing spending in real dollars, is the best method to determine the overall strength and capability of a nation’s military. Real dollars deliver real firepower on the battlefield, especially given that the cost of military equipment has skyrocketed as systems have become increasingly complex.

The second method, the percentage of GDP, assumes that there is a connection between defence spending and the size of the economy in determining how much a government should spend on its military. That is, the government taxes its economy and should devote a certain percentage of the revenue on military spending

Using the percentage of GDP measurement is rather murky. What is the appropriate amount to spend on defence relative to the economy? If your economy grows because of an increase in the price of oil,
for instance, and your security situation remains unchanged, should military spending suddenly climb as well?

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/documents/National_Office_Pubs/2007/More_Than_the_Cold_War.pdf

Illuminatri on Mon, 26th May 2008 12:36 am 



“HINDI TITIGIL ANG GULO SA MINDANAO KASI AYAW NG AFP, WALA NA SILANG BUDGET KUNG WALA NANG GUERRA.” – TheColdKing

Warlords serving as de facto local officials also want hot peace to ensure their grip on controlled territories. They are threading the thin line between the national agenda and local autonomous aspirations.

cvj on Mon, 26th May 2008 1:47 am 



UPn (at 10:56 pm), a good start would be to not use them in election cheating operations.

On ‘appeasement’ versus ‘all out war’, this is what Machiavelli said:

“Men ought either to be indulged or utterly destroyed, for if you merely offend them they take vengeance, but if you injure them greatly they are unable to retaliate, so that the injury done to a man ought to be such that vengeance cannot be feared.”

So if you’re gung-ho on a decisive ‘all out war’ against someone you define as your ‘enemy’, this should be the aim and for that, your numbers above (at 1:02pm) won’t suffice. Military doctrine recommends having at least a ten to one advantage against the guerilla forces so to handle Mindanao alone would need 300K fighters (not including support personnel). That would require a military draft. That’s just a start. As a guideline, here’s an equivalent set of ratios (as discussed in the context of America’s invasion of Iraq).

http://www.fpif.org/papers/quagmire2003.html

We don’t want to repeat the mistake of underestimation that the US Military commmitted in Iraq.

leytenian on Mon, 26th May 2008 2:30 am 



“It is easy to compute the salary-cost, but think the value — less threat of a terrorist attack in GenSan city — with 5,000 additional soldiers put against the MILF. Think of the value if, before getting sent out into the field (and then every 2 years thereafter) every soldier (and CAFGU) receives an extra 4 weeks of education and training in crowd-control/ community-action/ human-rights.”

this paragraph make sense the most. an investment for long term peace

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 5:47 am 



nicolo machiavelli wasn’t wrong all the time. extreme situations need extreme measures. the only good terrorists (which i define as individuals or groups who aim to kill innocent civilians indiscriminately to advance their cause, whether or not legitimate) are DEAD terrorists. turning the other cheek is not feasible with this forces of evil. they not only want to just slap you, they want you kill you or blow you up to smithereens.

btw, comparing the cost of armaments and personnel we need with that of the u.s. and other world powers (including rogue countries like iran, syria, nokor, or even red china) loses sight of the fact that our immediate need is purely for defense and preservation of our integrity as a nation, including enforcement of our laws against lawbreakers inside our borders, whether homegrown or not.
i don’t think we will ever have the ambition of becoming an aggressor against any other State. we are not, and we cannot be, that pretentious, i think.

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 6:09 am 



edit: 1. not feasible with THESE forces of evil…

2.they want TO kill you or blow you up to smithereens.

DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 26th May 2008 6:12 am 



btw, i don’t think think america needs “appeasement” from the rest of the world. just live and let live and follow the “rule of law” and i bet it won’t bother anyone.

this is a load of crap if i ever read one. the U.S. has been bothering everyone ever since it won WWII and became the lone world superpower after the disintegration of the USSR. the only rule america recognizes is the rule of force. fuck the rule of law if that law is inimical to US interests.
–
an all out war realizes nothing but making your enemies fight to the death. this has been a proven fact. armies known to be merciful to their enemies would take lesser losses as enemy armies would be much willing to surrender than cruel armies known for their butchery. citizens of cities besieged fought fiercely when they know no quarters will be given, hence dealing more losses to the invading force.
–
there is only one way to defeat insurgencies: go to their birthing grounds. foil them before the seed is planted. if no fresh warriors will replace the old, insurgencies will never last for long.

unless we are willing to commit the same genocide the Americans did when they conquered the Indians.

it isn’t all out war when you don’t kill them all.

and i don’t think we can wage an all out war against the whole islamic world.

KG on Mon, 26th May 2008 6:43 am 



Bencard,

Sir, It is Ok.

KG on Mon, 26th May 2008 7:13 am 



Number of personnel,funding.

Eto madaming napataas kilay ang tatay ko.
he sis that we have too many generals.Way back having a colonel to command a batallion(?) is a big thing already.
Ngayon padamihan ng stars.

Tapos depleted na ang pension fund, ang tataas ng mga retirement fund nang mga yan ah.

How can you remove all those star ranks and positions nasa plantilla na yan kumbaga, at sa tingin ng lahat incentive ang promotion(syempre naman).
medyo outside the box kahit ako naweirdohan pero it makes sense.

UPNs,
mabilis ka mag research,you can look up the number of generals sa Pilipinas and other countries. I wont be surprised if you will find out that we have a ridiculously high number of generals.

Sa ngayon, wala tayong magagawa kahit mangisay pa si jamby sa commission of appointments, well she is not barking up the wrong tree when she questioned the commission on appointments.

KG on Mon, 26th May 2008 7:14 am 



correction na na naman

from He sis to he says or he said

KG on Mon, 26th May 2008 7:16 am 



sa ang tataas ng mga retirement fund to ang tataas ng mga retirement benefit.

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 7:30 am 



you are seeing loads of crap from all directions, devilsadvo. it could be in your brain. what you observed about desperate enemies is a sad fact of life but better them than you, ain’t it so? as long as you didn’t initiate the bloodbath, i guess you can end it by eliminating the perps. and how do you propose to “foil them before the seed is planted” at their “birthing grounds”? by bringing the whole wowowee crew and exterminate them by sheer annoyance?

300 or so spartans stopped over a million muslims in their tracks and save the greco-roman civilization, including democracy, that is now a part of our heritage. who said the whole muslim world will intervene just because we are trying to enforce the rule of law on our renegade citizens?

cvj on Mon, 26th May 2008 7:39 am 



300 or so spartans stopped over a million muslims in their tracks and save the greco-roman civilization – Bencard

What the..!?!…i can’t believe even you can be so ignorant..the Persians depicted in that movie could not have been Muslims because there was no Islam at that time. BTW, the 300 Spartans were likewise not Christians.

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 7:41 am 



btw, devils, can you name one State that was invaded by the u.s. and still holding now? how does americans “bother” them? by insisting that they live in a civilized way?

leytenian on Mon, 26th May 2008 8:03 am 



in our country, our rule of law is not as systematic as it should. we are limited in terms of implementation management not only by the lack of continuing education and learning from others but simply because we lack the financial resources to maintain such an investment for long term. we are still considered poor and highly corrupt.

i do agree with bencard: “preservation of our integrity as a nation, including enforcement of our laws against lawbreakers inside our borders, whether homegrown or not.
i don’t think we will ever have the ambition of becoming an aggressor against any other State. we are not, and we cannot be”

jude on Mon, 26th May 2008 8:27 am 



“i don’t think we will ever have the ambition of becoming an aggressor against any other State. we are not, and we cannot be, that pretentious, i think.” – Bencard

The facts have spoken for themselves that George Bush and Dick Cheney spun a web of lies and intrigue in order to justify to the world the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The attempt to subjugate Iraq was and continues to be an act of aggression by the U.S. aimed purely to take over the resources (oil) of this country.

The whole world knows that the neocons now in control of the U.S. government blatantly aspire for dominate and dictate to the world. George Bush and Dick Cheney have repeatedly threatened the world that “either you are with us, or you are against us”. That’s unequivocably telling the rest of the world that they’ll get their asses whipped if they don’t toe the U.S. line, never mind if it involves aggression and corruption (oil and service companies, which have close ties to the White House, have exceedingly enriched themselves in the aftermath of Iraq).

“foreign intervention from other muslim nations, particularly in the immediate neighborhood, is a possibility but highly unlikely. malaysia and indonesia have their own housekeeping to do, and they are not exactly wallowing in wealth. the last thing they need is invite our non-muslim allies, e.g anzus, u.k., japan. sokor, etc. to the fray. the mindanao conflict is purely a domestic affair which the philippines has a right not to be interfered with. external attack could trigger actions under mutual defense treaties with the west, who themselves have axes to grind, and interests to protect, against violent muslim regimes. “ – Bencard

There is no need for our neighbors to openly intervene. All they have to do is contribute funds to belligerent Filipino Muslim groups, which they did in the 1970’s, when Ferdinand Marcos took the offensive against the Muslims. Our neighbors can also turn a blind eye to training of Filipino Muslim combatants in their soil (in the same way JI terrorists were being trained in Mindanao) and to smuggling of arms from their territory. As for not exactly wallowing in wealth, they may not be first world countries, but they are certainly wealthier than the Philippines. Malaysia aspires for newly-developed status and its per capita income is much higher than the Philippines. Indonesia has a booming agriculture and mining industry cashing in on the present high prices. Besides that, there is nothing that can galvanize their people more than a cause for Islam.
As for “anzus, u.k., japan. sokor” coming to the Philippines’ rescue, relying on something like that would prove to be nothing but wishful thinking.

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 8:53 am 



the great “master” of wikipedia strikes again, calling me “ignorant” as if by doing that he becomes any smarter, hah!

if persia under xerxes should have overrun the city states that comprise what is now known as greece, there would not have been a roman empire that had been the catalyst for the spread of christianity. persian domination of the known world, including all of the populated areas of europe, would have led to the islamization of all that conquered territories when the muslim caliphate took over the persian empire. who said the spartans that fought off xerxes were christians, and xerxes’ forces were muslims?
i think you are too “smart” for your little brain, mr. cvj.

cvj on Mon, 26th May 2008 9:10 am 



…so that justifies categorizing the ‘Persians’ (who fought the Spartans) as ‘Muslims’ more than a thousand years before that religion was established? Hanep sa palusot..

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 9:25 am 



jude, believe whatever pleases you but by “we”, i was referring to we, filipinos – not we, americans. so your lament about americans being aggressors is irrelevant to my comment that you are taking issue with. in any event, bush and cheney may be the highest executive authorities right now but they are not america. soon they will be replaced, most likely by mccain and his running mate, and their successors may pursue a different approach on how to deal with rogue antagonists who want to kill us “infidels” and “great satans” of the world.

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 9:47 am 



o.k., smart boy, i should have said “would-be muslims”, what the f…, now you can celebrate and pat yourself on the back, as if the existence of the whole universe depended on it.

mindanaoan on Mon, 26th May 2008 10:02 am 



there’s always a conflict when there’s a muslim minority, so both expensive all-out war and “appeasement”, solves nothing. we have been living in this situation for as long as i can remember, so what’s the big fuss?

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 10:08 am 



“relying on something like that would be nothing but wishful thinking.” jude

so you don’t believe in binding treaties among nations, huh?
i think most nations of the free world are more honorable and law-abiding than you believe. what basis do you have to make that kind of assessment, other than downright presumptuousness?

cvj on Mon, 26th May 2008 11:13 am 



Bencard, thanks that’s an improvement, but concluding that a victory for the Ancient Persians in Thermopylae would lead to Muslim hegemony in Western Civilization requires speculation of a chain of cause and effect that spans a Millenium. It also ignores the historical fact that the Persians were more benevolent to their conquered peoples (e.g. Cyrus the Great allowed the Jewish exiles in Babylon to return to their homeland) than the Romans who annhilated the Jewish rebels and fed the Christians to the lions for their entertainment.

While we’re at it, here’s some information to help set the record straight:

What is most disturbing about this movie is not that it lacks historical accuracy. It is not that Xerxes, the Grandson of Cyrus The Great and loving husband of Esther, is shown as an oversized drag queen. It is not even the outdated racist cliché of casting the Persians as Africans and the Spartans as white, blue-eyed ‘Chippendale dancers,’ when in reality the roles may well have been reversed.

What is so distressing about this movie is the realization of the tremendous power Hollywood wields in determining a people’s identity. It is the same nightmare Native Americans endured during the whole ‘cowboy-movie’ genre.

Read the whole thing below:

http://www.spentaproductions.com/300themovie_the_truth_behind_300.htm

mang_kiko on Mon, 26th May 2008 11:56 am 



ngayon sa panahon na ito, di na masyado kailangan ang Sobrang Lakas o Armas para maging epektibo ang Labanan. Propaganda, katulad ni Bin Laden, at isang dozena na handang mamatay na tauhan, ay makaapekto nang boung “policy” nang isang pinakamapangyarihan Bansa sa boung Mundo. At sa haanggang ngayon di pa matalo…

All Out war na nga ito, pero magsampong ta-on na at ilang Trillion dolyares, balik sa simula…

jude on Mon, 26th May 2008 12:19 pm 



“so you don’t believe in binding treaties among nations, huh?
i think most nations of the free world are more honorable and law-abiding than you believe. what basis do you have to make that kind of assessment, other than downright presumptuousness?” – Bencard

Because it has happened before and nobody, most especially the Americans who then had their bases in Clark and Subic, intervened. Experience is the best teacher, presumptuousness has nothing to do with it.

Those treaties don’t call for intervention on internal matters. If there is no open intervention by other countries, those treaties cannot be invoked.

DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 26th May 2008 2:09 pm 



and how do you propose to “foil them before the seed is planted” at their “birthing grounds”? by bringing the whole wowowee crew and exterminate them by sheer annoyance?

i guess i should’ve elaborated. it’s quite simple really, if you think about it. extremism grows because new blood is infused to it everytime. that’s why it can never be killed. fighting terrorism is like fighting ghosts. it will never end unless you cut to the heart of the matter. and that is islamic indoctrination. it’s how the spaniards conquered us and we shuda learned from them.

no, i’m not proposing a religious indoctrination of Mindanao. just quite the opposite.

btw, devils, can you name one State that was invaded by the u.s. and still holding now? how does americans “bother” them? by insisting that they live in a civilized way?

uhh, can you spell I-R-A-Q?

DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 26th May 2008 2:22 pm 



who said the whole muslim world will intervene just because we are trying to enforce the rule of law on our renegade citizens?

when Afghanistan was invaded by Russia, mujahadeens from all parts of the world went and helped their muslim brothers in Afghanistan. yes, including our muslim brothers in Mindanao.

the fight in Gaza, in Taliban, in Iraq, Israel…

in any conflict wherein islamic interests are threatened, the whole Islamic community will give its backing.

that’s why oil prices continue to rise. because Saudis and most islamic countries virtually control the supply of oil. they do not do it on a whim, or because of market forces.

they do it first: to force the US to its knees. and second, to enrich themselves.

isn’t it crazy that the U.S. is funding its own enemy?

if the U.S. truly wants to defeat the terrorists, it would earnestly start a campaign to wean away it’s economy from oil and go to alternative sources of energy.

we defeat the terrorists the day we suck dry their coffers.

anthony scalia on Mon, 26th May 2008 5:59 pm 



that’s why oil prices continue to rise. because Saudis and most islamic countries virtually control the supply of oil. they do not do it on a whim, or because of market forces. – devilsadvc8

i thought close to half of the price per barrel is due to speculators seeking to recover losses from the US subprime mortgage mess?

jude on Mon, 26th May 2008 6:06 pm 



“that’s why oil prices continue to rise.”

Oil prices have risen precipitously because the gangsters who have held power in the U.S. for the past eight years LOVE high oil prices. Almost as much as much as they love greenhouse gasses (refusing to sign the Kyoto protocol), gas-guzzling vehicles (refusing to mandate higher fuel economy standards) and wars that destabilize oil supplies (lying to the world in order to justify aggression against Iraq).

George Bush’s heart is with the oil industry. Oil is big in Texas and the Bush family is in the oil business. The Bush family also has very strong business and personal ties with the Saudi Royal Family, who must be ecstatic about the soaring prices of oil.

Bush’ Vice President is Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney also very close to the oil industry. He was the CEO of Halliburton, an oil-services company that also provides construction and military support services. That’s a home run, with bases loaded, for wartime spoils. Is it any wonder, then, that oil has rocketed to such great heights since the Bush-Cheney mafia took over?

Bencard on Mon, 26th May 2008 6:55 pm 



jude, about honoring treatises, are you using my argument against yours? read again my comments. didn’t i say foreign intervention that could trigger action by our allies under mutual defense treatise?

cvj, regarding thermopylae, believe the spin of your own source (a dime a dozen)to your heart’s content. what do we know? as you said it happened a bunch of millenia before our time.

jude on Mon, 26th May 2008 8:15 pm 



Bencard, I stated that there is no need for our neighbors to OPENLY intervene.

To enlighten you, allow me to point out historical events in our country that illustrate how intervention between countries can be done surreptitiously.

At the height of the Muslim insurgency in the 1970’s, it was an open secret that Malaysia was giving aid, arms and comfort to Filipino Muslim rebels. Malaysia’s clandestine support wasn’t only just to come to the aid of fellow Muslims. It was also to put Marcos and the Philippine government in their place due to Marcos’ attempt to claim and take control of Sabah.

Muslim fighters were trained in Malaysia by professional instructors, financed and supplied with arms by the Malaysian government, through the intercession of the powerful and wealthy Tun Dato Mustapha, who was then Chief Minister of Sabah and who was, ironically, actually a Tausug of Philippine origins.

Malaysia trained and developed leaders of the Muslim insurgency. These included Nur Misuari and Salamat Hashim, founders of the MNLF and MILF, respectively. Malaysia also funded these insurgent groups and provided them with arms. At that time, it was common knowledge that Muslim politicians and mujahideen opposed to the Philippine government were given sanctuary and comfort in Malaysia. Secessionists, as well as anti-Marcos politicians like Pendatun and Lucman were graciously treated in Malaysia. Even Ninoy Aquino made a stopover in Malaysia before proceeding to his martyrdom in the Philippines.

The Americans then had their bases in the Philippines. The mutual defense treaty between the U.S. and the Philippines was very much in force. Why didn’t the U.S. attack or even censure Malaysia?

vic on Mon, 26th May 2008 9:23 pm 



“Why didn’t the U.S. attack or even censure Malaysia?”

Jude, let me give my tuppence worth on this subject. During those days, the U.S. can only attack in Return or in imminent danger of being attacked, or if under the treaty will provide support in arms or personnel to an ally under attacked or threatened by another sovereign. It did not have yet the “Preemptive” policy that was only invoked in Iraq.

Even Russia at the height of its occupation of Afghanistan, can not do much about the indirect and direct support of Pakistan as Proxy to the U.S. and all other Muslim countries supporting the Mujaheddin and So the U.S. can only do as much as Threw words against the Chinese and Russian during the Vietnam War.

And also, the U.S. does not want to compromise its Interests with another country (in your comment, Malaysia) for something that was Hypothetical as seen on their own side.

leytenian on Mon, 26th May 2008 9:30 pm 



“Oil prices have risen precipitously because the gangsters who have held power in the U.S. for the past eight years LOVE high oil prices”

I beg to disagree with you but you may have a point on the speculative side. It is an imbalance of supply and demand.

Demand Side: Although many factors have contributed to higher crude oil prices, a combination of strong (and somewhat unexpected) global demand for oil since 2003 and expectations of continuing future tightness is the major cause. These demand/supply imbalances reflect robust global activity, an apparent shift in the demand for oil by China and other emerging economies, and limited investment in the oil sector in the past two decades. Naturally, given the tightness in the oil market and uncertainties about demand and supply, factors such as geopolitical developments, fears of potential supply disruptions, and speculation have also all played a part in price movements, but largely through their impact on expectations regarding future fundamentals.

Supply Side: On the supply side, the main players in the crude oil market are OPEC—which currently provides about 40 percent of world supply and holds about 70 percent of proven reserves—and non-OPEC producers. OPEC, as the marginal supplier, behaves as a semi-cartel in normal times by aiming to maintain excess extraction capacity in order to influence crude oil prices. In recent years, its policy has been to balance the market while allowing for an ‘appropriate’ level of crude oil inventories in consuming nations. Non-OPEC producers, on the other hand, have relatively limited reserves and spare capacity, and generally behave as price takers. Under current circumstance—when quantity demanded is close to productive capacity—OPEC’s ability to lower prices is limited.

The Role of Speculation: The significant rise in longer-dated futures prices reflects the perception of continued tightness in the physical market, and is facilitated by increased investor interest… ( bush and cheney are oil investors)

Bencard on Tue, 27th May 2008 2:24 am 



“uhh, can you spell I-R-A-Q?” devilsadvoc8

i thought there is a democratic government in iraq, by, for and of iraquis. u.s. is still there, not as occupiers, but to help maintain peace and order, and clean up the place of terrorists. if there’s anything the u.s. wants right now is to be able to go home and leave the place to the iraquis to defend and preserve its democratic government. ditto with afghanistan.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 2:54 am 



Bencard (at 6:55 pm), i can understand why you would prefer the version with Xerxes in drag.

leytenian on Tue, 27th May 2008 3:34 am 



“that’s why oil prices continue to rise. because Saudis and most islamic countries virtually control the supply of oil. they do not do it on a whim, or because of market forces.”

It is not just the Muslim countries that controls the oil supply. To coordinate oil production policies, OPEC was created in 1960..
Opec’s members..http://www.opec.org/aboutus/
The demand of oil have increased since 2003: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_price_increases_of_2004-2006

Bencard on Tue, 27th May 2008 4:42 am 



cvj, and i can understand why you believe everything you read as long as it’s not from your own authorship. how can you be sure that that i’ve seen the movie your blogger “scholar” is criticizing, anyway. xerxes a drag queen? who knows?

Bencard on Tue, 27th May 2008 4:58 am 



btw, how do you know that cyrus the great sent the jews back to where they came from, not on the kindness of his heart, but to get rid of them without having to deal with the mess of annihilating them inside his own empire? again, there are no eyewitnesses that can tell us the “truth”, so your guess is as good as anybody’s, including mine. evidently, hitler thought that was stupid, hence, the holocaust.

supremo on Tue, 27th May 2008 5:28 am 



‘For me an all out war is not a solution.’

I agree. I already said these things before but what the heck I’ll say them again.

1)Construct 3 penal colonies 1 each for Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao. Make sure they can accomodate 50,000 prisoners. build the Mindanao penal colony first probably in Maguindanao province. Open the gates of the Mindanao penal colony as soon as the MILF declares independence.
2) Construct a military complex that can accomodate a naval base, air base and army base in Cotabato. Don’t leave it when the MILF declares independence. It will stick out like a sore thumb similar to the US base in Guantanamo bay.
3) Build up the transportation infrastructure in Mindanao. Rail and expressway to connect each major city to each other. Leave MILF the tab when they declare independence.
4) The most effective thing to do is ignore the MILF. KSP lang ang mga yan. Puro drawing.

Bencard on Tue, 27th May 2008 5:30 am 



btw (#2), as between your authority a certain cyrus (not the great) kar, and herodotus, i’ll bet my money on the later. i was looking for kar’s credentials but other than his own claim that he is engaged in “correcting” ( sounds to me more as ‘revising’ or ‘rewriting’) ancient history by filming alleged historical sites, among other things, i couldn’t figure out how in hell he could second-guess herodutus. i’m sure you “contributed” a hefty sum to his project. i did not, and would not, even if i could.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 5:59 am 



Bencard, you can ask about Cyrus the Great if you have any Orthodox Jewish friend or Rabbi. Alternatively you can look him up in the Old Testament. Just a clarification, Cyrus did not send the Jews outside his empire, rather he sent them home to the Promised Land which was still within his Persian Empire. You see, prior to that, the Jews were conquered by the Babylonians (under Nebuchadnezzar) who sent them into exile in Babylon. In a manner of speaking, Cyrus the Great put Israel back in the map.

Bencard on Tue, 27th May 2008 7:41 am 



cvj, you’re always on the lookout for mistake, aren’t you? it does give you a boost of confidence about yourself, right? i guess that compensates you for acting as my editor.

i know “the promised land” a.k.a. judea, was conquered by nebuchadnezzar’s babylonia, enslaved it’s inhabitants, and made part of the babilonian empire. cyrus’ seat of power was in babylon and my hypothesis was that he did not like the jews living with his people and had to send them back to where they came from (there was no “israel” as a distinct territory at the time, and up until 1947 when the u.n. carved a portion of the area for the jews and called it the state of israel). thanks for your suggestions about asking an “orthodox jew” or rabbi. i’m sure they have their religious convictions which i respect but not necessarily believe for reasons i’ve already stated.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 8:31 am 



Bencard, actually, there was an ‘Israel’ as a territory (under the Persians, then the Macedonians, with a brief period of independence under the Maccabees, then under the Romans) from the time of their return (courtesy of Cyrus) from Babylonian captivity up until the time of the Jewish revolt where the rebels chose to commit suicide in Masada (rather than submit to the Romans) in the first century AD. From then, they became an wandering people until 1948. That’s why the oath of every Israeli soldier is “Masada shall not fall again.”

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 8:37 am 



In summary, contrary to your understanding, it was the Ancient Persians who put the Jews back on the map (by bringing them back to Judea from Babylonian captivity), and it was the Romans who wiped them off the map (by crushing the Jewish revolt).

jude on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:07 am 



“It is an imbalance of supply and demand.” – leytenian

It always boils down to a supply and demand situation. However, the circumstances for a supply-demand imbalance can be influenced by wasteful energy policies OR SIMPLE BAD FAITH BY THOSE IN A POSITION TO CREATE POLICY. The U.S. is the world’s biggest consumer of oil by far. By itself, it consumes more than 25% of the world’s oil. China’s consumption is a mere fraction of that, and so is the entire Europe’s. Being the world’s only superpower and the world’s largest consumer of oil and energy entails responsibility and leading by example.

Europe has shown responsibility and judiciousness by setting policies that discourage high consumption and waste of energy. It has imposed high taxes on oil in order to discourage profligacy. It has established fuel efficiency standards in order to steer the automotive industry towards higher mileage. It has encouraged and subsidized research and development of alternative systems of energy.

Cars and trucks account for more than 60% of oil consumption in the U.S. (see BusinessWeek, “Bush is Blowing Smoke On Energy”). Energy experts agree that the single most effective way to cut oil dependence is to increase fuel efficiency. “You have to start with higher miles per gallon,” says Robert E. Ebel, chairman of the energy program at the Center for Strategic & International Studies, a Washington (D.C.) think tank. And yet, the Bush administration’s tepid response has been to extend tax credits for diesel and hybrid cars. The Bush administration’s Federal fuel-efficiency standards are such a mockery that the Attorney General of California had to go to court to invalidate it because the standards were TOO LOW!

Oh sure, there are market forces and certain disturbances in the market that cause distortions in supply and demand. The Chinese surge in demand is a factor but, as pointed out, the surge in demand for oil in China isn’t enough to justify the skyrocketing price of oil to present levels. But it can clearly be pointed out what is a major cause for disruption in oil supplies, and that is the American invasion and occupation of Iraq, which was one of the world’s top oil producers and has one of the largest oil reserves in the world.

The illusion that oil prices are created by “free markets” is precisely what the Bush-Cheney mafia want the world to think. Here is what Donella H. Meadows, adjunct professor of environmental studies at Dartmouth College says about free markets, especially in the energy sector:

“Any economics textbook will tell you two reasons why the free market cannot and should not make energy policy. First, the energy market is not free. Second, even if there were a free market, it would not produce an energy policy any nation would want to live with.

Governments, corporations, and cartels constantly fiddle with energy supplies and prices, trying to bend the market to their advantage. Oil companies and then OPEC have manipulated oil supply for decades. Electricity is a regulated monopoly. Nuclear power would not be competitive if its subsidies were taken away.”

And if that wouldn’t be enough to disabuse “free market” believers and bring them down to earth, here are some characteristics of free markets, as pointed out by Prof. Meadows that reveal that they’re actually not free or spontaneous:

• “A free market assumes that complete information is available to all players — but information is itself a market commodity. For example, if Americans knew the actual costs of and returns to various energy choices, they would buy efficient appliances and cars in a big way. But it is not in the interest of energy suppliers to sell efficiency, so that information isn’t available.”

• “A central necessity of energy policy is to put into place a system based on renewables (hydro, solar, biomass) as fossil fuels run out. That could be done with a depletion tax that funds development of energy alternatives. The U.S. government gets it just backward. U.S. government gives away depletion tax CUTS – HANDOUTS TO THE OIL INDUSTRY AS RESERVES DECLINE.”

• “Markets are driven by the private values of market players, not the common values of society, such as security, justice or the environment. In markets, unlike democracies, some people have a lot more votes than others, therefore markets provide for the needs of the rich few rather than the poor many. Government intervention is essential to establish at least minimal fairness.”

Prof. Meadows goes on: “A market economy is a wonderful thing” but, she cautions: “to rely on the market alone is equivalent to stationing a nearsighted, excitable, ignorant, and powerfully self-interested boy at the wheel to steer the ship of state.”

“When a government persists in a perverse policy it’s usually best to assume incompetence, not conspiracy. But the Bush White House is not incompetent. It is full of economists who know about the market faults.”

“The President, who is an oil man, must be well aware that when he invokes “the market” like a Holy Grail, HE REALLY MEANS THE VESTED INTERESTS.”

KG on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:39 am 



“Why didn’t the U.S. attack or even censure Malaysia?”

If we are talking of the 70s:
propbably because, they just lost a lot of resources in vietnam, the anti vietnam porotest etc.

The oil problem:

I remember a few days ago HVRDS pointed to this link, on the democrats not seeing the clear picture:

http://www.ncpa.org/~ncpa/oped/bartlett/oct1998.html
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/891/ec2.htm

Going back to the uS has bases,why not attack Malaysia.

if 80s:
probably bigger problems like : Iran-Iraq,Afghanistan

in the 90s: they left.

Your guess is as good as mine.

Bencard on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:58 am 



cvj, why do you say “contrary to (my) understanding”? did i ever claim either of the two put the state of israel on the map, as you exaggerate? under both babylonian and roman empires, there was no independent “israel” except briefly under the maccabbees. yes, there was a land which the jews called “eretz yisrael” but insofar as the babylonians, and later the romans, were concerned, it was just a province of their respective empires. it was no different from what present-day muslim mindanao calls “bangsamoro”.

perhaps you are a better researcher than i but don’t even think you have a handle on truth about these matters, as you are in a habit of doing. your information as well as mine are only as good as our sources.

KG on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:02 am 



“1)Construct 3 penal colonies 1 each for Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao. Make sure they can accomodate 50,000 prisoners. build the Mindanao penal colony first probably in Maguindanao province. Open the gates of the Mindanao penal colony as soon as the MILF declares independence.
2) Construct a military complex that can accomodate a naval base, air base and army base in Cotabato. Don’t leave it when the MILF declares independence. It will stick out like a sore thumb similar to the US base in Guantanamo bay.
3) Build up the transportation infrastructure in Mindanao. Rail and expressway to connect each major city to each other. Leave MILF the tab when they declare independence.
4) The most effective thing to do is ignore the MILF. KSP lang ang mga yan. Puro drawing.”

Maganda sana eh, kaso puro drawing .

Pt.1: same as the garbage problem:
you can have dumps and landfills,but not on my backyard.

PT.2
whatever happened to the plan to remove bases in manila.
FT, bOnifacio’s sale:what happened to the funds?
Try throwing out those who refuse to leave.
Sangley:
The chinese doesn’t not want to proceed,because of what happened to the Koreans.

Pt. 3
Maganda na naman sana.
but ask any miner, kung magkano ang dapat iaabot sa mga rebelde para makabalik ka lang kinabukasan.

Another reason, why procurement does not work is that you have to allocate something for the rebels,aside from other’s who receive the ambons.

You can check how many DPWH projects are overpriced in mindanao,sa ibang me sariling storya yan.

and number 3 is the reason why number 4 can’t happen.

bakit nga ba,we can’t go over the obstacles,hurdles and constraints,get around them or under them,ewan ko.

Is a paradigm shift the answer?is going outside the box the answer?

KG on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:08 am 



http://business.inquirer.net/money/columns/view/20080525-138752/Ready-for-200-oil

A good read:
it explains something about futures trading.
and why it is not just a supply and demand thing;it also questions the so called peak oil.

supremo on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:24 am 



KG,

‘Is a paradigm shift the answer?is going outside the box the answer?’

Kasi ang mga Filipino karaniwan takot at pessimistic. Kapag may nakapag-isip ng kakaiba ang sagot ‘Hindi puwedeng gawin yan kasi blah blah blah’. Sa tingin mo ba magagawa ng mga Kano ang Interstate system sa US kung ang unang sagot ng mga engineers kay Eisenhower ay ‘Hindi pwede boss kasi blah blah blah’.
You don’t need a paradigm shift. You don’t need to think outside the box. Just do it.

leytenian on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:35 am 



“However, the circumstances for a supply-demand imbalance can be influenced by wasteful energy policies OR SIMPLE BAD FAITH BY THOSE IN A POSITION TO CREATE POLICY”

“Cars and trucks account for more than 60% of oil consumption in the U.S”

Agree and Global demand however continues growing, and U.S. consumers are reluctant to make any significant lifestyle changes or significant efficiencies.

“But it can clearly be pointed out what is a major cause for disruption in oil supplies, and that is the American invasion and occupation of Iraq, which was one of the world’s top oil producers and has one of the largest oil reserves in the world”

True but over 99% of Canadian oil exports are sent to the United States, making Canada, not Saudi Arabia, the United States’ largest supplier of oil.

Regarding Iraq: After more than a decade of sanctions and two Gulf Wars, Iraq’s oil infrastructure needs modernization and investment.

IRAQ claims to have the world’s fourth largest reserves of oil at approximately 115 billion barrels (18.3×109 m3), although it would rank third if Canadian reserves of non-conventional oil were excluded.
As a result of war and civil unrest, these statistics have not been revised since 2001( before Bush went to war) and are largely based on 2-D seismic data from three decades ago. International geologists and consultants have estimated that unexplored territory may contain an estimated additional 45 to 100 billion barrels (bbls) of recoverable oil. However, in the absence of exploration data these estimates are highly speculative and do not meet the industry definitions of proven, probable, or possible oil reserves.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

vic on Tue, 27th May 2008 11:44 am 



Talking of “Delikadeza”, How about this one:

Les Whittington
Ottawa Bureau
Toronto Star

OTTAWA–Prime Minister Stephen Harper tonight announced the resignation of Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier, in advance of revelations by his ex-girlfriend that Bernier was careless in his handling of secret cabinet documents.

Bernier submitted his resignation a few hours before TVA in Montreal aired an interview with Julie Couillard, in which she said that the former minister left a government document in her apartment in April. (Julie Couillard, was an ex-girlfriend of the Minister and was also said to have links with Bikers Gangs and Organized Crime).

“It is a very serious mistake–regardless of who the minister is, regardless of personal life–to leave classified documents in an unsecured location,” Harper told reporters in a hastily called news conference on Parliament Hill.

“The minister has recognized this error himself and offered to resign,” the Prime Minister said.

Harper, who has previously turned aside questions about Bernier and Couillard as an intrusion on the former minister’s personal life, said, “This is not to do with the minister’s private life or the life of a private citizen.”

He said Bernier would be replaced as foreign affairs minister on a temporary basis by Trade Minister David Emerson.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/431201

vic on Tue, 27th May 2008 11:53 am 



In this case nobody questioned about the truthfullness of Julie Couillard Statements, asking for more concrete evidence or just dismissed her statement as mere Hearsay.

Or not even questioned her past association with Criminal gangs as to doubt her allegations in regards to the Foreign Affairs Minister’s mistakes of Careless handling of Cabinet Documents. Just pack up and resign…

UP n student on Tue, 27th May 2008 12:26 pm 



One of the most serious tactical and strategic mistake to do is to ignore the MILF. These folks do not know diplomacy and the practical and effective nuances of negotiation. The MILF does not even know how to wage war — the MILF executes terror tactics. And terrorists, left alone, do not mellow with age. Like cockroaches that plot and cause more damage, expect the MILF to recruit more 15-year-olds or younger and to do ethnic purification of villages to enlarge the territory they can claim. GenSan City is always at risk while the MILF operates.

The GRP has already effectively weakened the MILF, but only to a stalemate. An additional thousand soldiers — well-led, well-trained — can do a lot of good. Even better if 5,000 GRP soldiers can be brought to bear. At minimum, more civic-action teams should be sent into Mindanao to protect what are currently secure villages, especially to prevent 15-year-olds from being shanghailed as under-age MILF soldiers.

[As for those short snippets on military/counter-insurgency ratios that cvj had mentioned, when did cvj believe in US military tactics anyway? And cvj has not even mentioned negotiations with the MILF. cvj has periodically given me the impression that the arguments regarding military tactics against the MILF, he chose and crafted to support the conclusion he wants --- for a let-up in military pressure against the MILF (which just provides the MILF more time to regroup, recruit and plot, "more space" that is less about "why can't we all get along"-type peace in Mindanao but more about defeatism for the republic and for the MILF to prevail in Mindanao.]

UP n student on Tue, 27th May 2008 12:46 pm 



supremo’s proposal for more kilometers of new roads in Mindanao should be supported. Development economics pushes for such farm-to-market-roads — Malacanang should encourage Saudi Arabia or Japan or Canada to fund these roads.

Interestingly, the MILF is against the roads. While more roads give the “inside villages” better access to commerce, news and other services, the same better roads also allow the Philippine army/marines to move troops more rapidly.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 12:59 pm 



UPn, what are the chances that Saudi Arabia (or any of the Gulf countries) would fund the construction of roads in Mindanao if they are aware that these roads will be used to pursue a policy of ‘all out war‘ against their fellow Muslims? Have you thought that through?

mindanaoan on Tue, 27th May 2008 1:23 pm 



cvj, you don’t seem to distinguish between the rebels, and the muslim population in general. when muslim countries fund projects, its for the muslim population in general, and when the afp fights, it’s against the rebels.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 1:31 pm 



Mindanaoan, in an all out war (or even during counterinsurgency operations), do you think we’d be capable of such nuance? Even at this stage, UPn’s (and Bencard’s) rhetoric in this thread does not seem to do so.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 1:36 pm 



On the part of the Filipino Muslims, do you think that in the event of war they would take the side of the non-Muslims?

mindanaoan on Tue, 27th May 2008 1:51 pm 



cvj, an all-out-war scenario can only be between the afp and the rebels. most of the muslims are poor, very poor. they can’t afford to join any kind of war. and the milf is not capable of fighting in christian areas, maybe just a few raids. only the afp can go to the muslim areas to fight. haven’t you noticed the collateral damage are always muslim civilians?

mlq3 on Tue, 27th May 2008 1:56 pm 



upn, why not railroads?

mindanaoan on Tue, 27th May 2008 2:01 pm 



upn, where will you put your farm-to-market roads? sulu and tawi-tawi are mostly islands, and i dont know of commercial trucking going into and out of lanao del sur. in the maguindanao marshlands then?

jude on Tue, 27th May 2008 2:31 pm 



KG: While it would be imprudent to disregard the peak oil theory, there are significant oil discoveries that recently have been made all over the world that have made up for some of the wells that have been drying up. It has to be noted, though, that most discoveries have been made at extremely deep seas.

There are important fields discovered in the South China Sea off Vietnam (fueling more speculation about oil in the Spratlys) and around China’s Bohai Bay (near Korea). Chevron has also found massive oil reserves in the deep waters off the Gulf of Mexico and more oil has recently been found in the North Sea. In Kazakhstan, the biggest oil discovery in the past 30 years may soon be coming into production.

The most spectacular recent oil discoveries are the Tupi and Carioca fields off the coast of Brazil. If estimated reserves prove correct, these oil discoveries may propel Brazil to become one of the world’s top oil producers in a few years. The Atlantic Ocean has become the most recent hotbed for oil discoveries.

In an interesting side note, this has led Peter Zeihan, vice president of Strategic Forecasting (Stratfor), the political consulting company which has been dubbed the “shadow CIA”, to state that discoveries in the Atlantic and in the Far East would diminish the importance of the Persian Gulf as a source for oil. Consequently, the U.S. Navy’s presence in the Persian Gulf and adjacent waters would be reduced, leaving the region exposed to more conflict, Zeihan said.

“We could see that world becoming a very violent one,” added Zeihan, “If the United States isn’t getting any crude from the Gulf, what benefit does it have in policing the Gulf anymore? All of the geopolitical flux that wracks that region regularly suddenly isn’t our problem.”
But before we write off the Persian Gulf, it must be noted that Iraq has not been producing at capacity for several years now. It still maintains huge oil reserves and it is estimated that many more billion barrels of oil (estimates place it as high as 250 billion barrels) have not yet been discovered in Iraq, as oil exploration has been limited by turmoil. Iraq still could become the 800 pound gorilla of oil reserves and production.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 6:23 pm 



mindanaoan (at 1:51pm), i don’t think that there’s any kind of war (conventional or guerilla) that involves only the combatants and has not affected the civilian populace. That has been the case since at least World War I. Besides, those who are very poor have little to lose.

UP n student on Tue, 27th May 2008 8:34 pm 



mlq3: “Yes” to railroads, too, but I believe one can’t just do a USD $20Million railroad project while $20-million can build a lot of kilometers of 2-lane all-weather roads.

Maguindanao: The more difficult question probably is “where FIRST to put new roads”. I doubt that all municipalities with 5,000 or more already have all-weather roads to connect them to a major highway.

cvj: most of the Mindanaoans, poor or not, will not be joining an all-out war. Don’t be ridiculous here, the Mindanaoans do not even want to join on-weekends-only wars. What they want is for the power-brokers to sit down, negotiate, find solutions because “… for crying out loud… why can’t we all just get along?”.

The unfortunate part is a small group has grown itself into an army. Now this army, because of its secessionist- and other goals, is doing territory-cleansing while projecting its presence every so often by detonating bombs, not against GRP soldiers, but against civilians. Seriously, you do not want Malacanang to cry “…we are defeated!!!!” and ask the MILF for its terms and conditions, do you?

UP n student on Tue, 27th May 2008 8:43 pm 



cvj: I agree with your sentence that there is not any kind of war (conventional or guerilla) that … has not affected a civilian populace.

anthony scalia on Tue, 27th May 2008 8:44 pm 



Bencard,

you might want to read the Old Testament, particularly the prophetic books (from Isaiah onwards), for more info on the relations between babylonians, persians and jews

since medyo mahaba yan, try reading Nehemiah and Ezra

it was the persians who decreed the return of the jews to the promised land. the jews did return, but it was not like during David’s time. they were still under a foreign power

leytenian on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:11 pm 



who cares about the history of jews and the persians? let’s deal with our very own problem.
talking about “Delikadeza” VIC,
Winston Garcia should just resign.

mindanaoan on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:25 pm 



cvj, if you are thinking that the army is fighting against the muslims, rather than against rebel groups like the milf, you are wrong. that’s probably why you have notions of other muslim countries coming in.

and what civilian population are you talking about? the fighting between the afp and the rebels are only in the jungles and remote barangays.

UP n, the question is what do you want to do with your roads. there are not many muslim farmers.

and a lot of people do in fact want to join the fighting, both christians and muslims, especially when there are news about atrocities. but what can you do if the fighting is in basilan and you are in ozamiz?

and it’s not very simple. there are also christians fighting for the milf (yes, they also recruit christians) and there are muslims in the armed forces.

UP n student on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:37 pm 



Jude: I would not be surprised that off the Celebes Sea will be a huge energy deposit which has become commercially-feasible at the $100-a-barrel price-point. Now US companies will prefer t

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:42 pm 



UPn, as it is with all rebellions, i believe that a good portion of that ’small group’ or rebels represent the best and the brightest of the Philippines (or Bangsa Moro). By all means show them no quarter, if and when the time comes to fight them, but we should be fully aware of what our country as a whole will be losing in the process. Your insistence in depicting the Muslims as the Other does not help in this regard.

cvj on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:49 pm 



mindanaoan, correct me if i’m wrong, but i get the impression that you don’t live in one of those remote barangays that may be affected by the fighting?

mindanaoan on Tue, 27th May 2008 9:59 pm 



no cvj, i live in a city

KG on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:00 pm 



Supremo,

point taken,pero kailan pa nagyari ang just do it?

You just answered it,because of the blahblahblah.
But my blahblahblah,to your points are more out of frustration kung bakit di magawagawa ang maga puntos mo.
babalik na naman ba tayo sa use trust and let’s doh it.

Jude,
thanks again for the bundle of knowledge.

vic on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:05 pm 



leytenian, the Foreign Minister the Press call “Mad Max” which resigned after leaving some Cabinet Documents at her Girlfriend’s apartment is still in the Headlines, and what a beautiful EX he had that even got the attention of George W. during their meetings..and she also had a very colorful past with links and relationships with noted Biker Gangs Members and Organized Crime. But her connections got nothing to do with the Minister demise, but his carelessness of handling Government Property…and also his intervention in the affairs of Afghanistan Government, which created quite a ruffle among allies..
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/431437

And hope this one will eventually suceeds for the sake of Autistic Children.
http://healthzone.ca/health/article/429527

Autism lawsuit needs more work, court says:
Parents fighting to have their autistic children receive expensive, specialized therapies within the public education system were tossed a thin lifeline by Ontario’s highest court yesterday.

In a unanimous ruling, the Ontario Court of Appeal essentially handed back the parents some of their claims against the Ontario government and seven school boards, saying they need to be substantially reworked if they are to have any hope of succeeding in their lawsuit.

The court ruled the argument needs “substantial redrafting,” noting lack of clarity “makes it difficult to know” what the parents want.

leytenian on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:12 pm 



US early morning news: savings of 17 billion miles of travel was recorded this past memorial day weekend. people refrained from long travel according to CNN. looking on actual data of cars for sale online… plenty of inventories for SUV’s. americans are now feeling tightness and adjusting to the high oil price. this might be good news for oil demand to stabilize the price but bad news for the car industry. Not sure where would they store their Hummer inventories.

Meanwhile, tourists from all over the world continue to pour their money into the US economy. Enjoying their travel and sightseeing here in the US at very low price. This is an advantage to hotel, restaurants, parks, beach, and car rental industries.

Philippines: many friends got approve for their US tourist VISA. Is US immigration now loosening their requirements?

leytenian on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:17 pm 



hi Vic,
“The court ruled the argument needs “substantial redrafting,” noting lack of clarity “makes it difficult to know” what the parents want.”

sounds like the Philippines. we do need good lawyers who will represent our people. drafting requires financial statement, goals, objectives and “cause and effect”. Lots of signatures and proven track of integrity.

I am still very postive with Philippines..Kung sa Bisaya” mapiskan ra ta sa progress sa ubang nasud sama sa China” We don’t need to do anything except cleaning up corrupt officials. Everything will fall into place with honest leaders.

leytenian on Tue, 27th May 2008 10:23 pm 



i live in the mountains and we don’t have Jonas Burgos.. LOL. discussions?

vic on Tue, 27th May 2008 11:07 pm 



hi leytenian, me again, Intensive Behaviourial Intervention (IBI)therapy has already been introduced for Autistic Children within the Public School System in the past year or two. But it will take a while to train qualified therapists to accommodate all Autistic Children in the system..The lawsuit was launched in 2004 while debates and deliberations about funding for IBI which requires at least 20 hours of therapy a week in one to one basis was going on…Now the program is in place in its initial stage, and maybe that is the reason why the Court of Appeal is handing back the claims for further clarification of what the 5 sets of parents really want..and it a class action suit to benefits all children if it succeeds…

Bencard on Tue, 27th May 2008 11:46 pm 



thanks for the heads-up, anthony scalia. that’s exactly what i was telling cvj. the jews were ALLOWED to return to the “promised land” which remained a province of the babylonian empire, and the jewish people continued to live under the yoke of babylon until rome took over.

“who cares about the history of jews and the persians? let’s deal with our very own problems.” leytenean

sorry but i thought mlq3 is the one who sets the parameters of these discussions. the ancient persia-judea history and related subjects, i think, are relevant to the topic of bangsamoro claim of separate nationhood, a subject of this thread, and one of our more important “very own problems”. if you feel you don’t learn anything from it and care not to participate , you’re free to talk to yourself, or with someone else willing to engage you.

grd on Wed, 28th May 2008 4:10 am 



mindanaon,

the guy lives in the city too. i doubt if he has ever set foot in any parts of mindanao. maybe he doesn’t know that in most part of the south, muslims and christians are living peacefully side by side and that the military is fighting only the rebels and bandits (including the npa’s) in the jungles and not primarily against the muslims.

i even read somewhere that he fears the likes of duterte. maybe he should try living for sometime in davao and see for himself how’s life out there. if i remember it right, mlq3 once wrote that the best place for him to live is either davao or baguio.

supremo on Wed, 28th May 2008 4:36 am 



‘The more difficult question probably is “where FIRST to put new roads”.’

Connect the major cities with expressways first. That’s how they started the US Interstate system. Before you know it every corner of Mindanao is accessible.

Rail links between major cities can be achieved using diesel light rail vehicles. Similar to the LRT in Manila but powered by diesel engine.

cvj on Wed, 28th May 2008 5:07 am 



grd, i have been to Mindanao.

leytenian on Wed, 28th May 2008 6:08 am 



Hi Vic,
about autistic issue in canada

sounds like these parents need a state funded or non profit school to accomodate autistic children. a fundraising campaign will benefit to build a new specialized school just for autistic children. Autism is a complex developmental disability that affects a person’s ability to communicate and interact with others. These children cannot be mixed with other normal children in a school type environment. A speech/language pathologists/therapists ,i believe is needed not just a normal school teacher. Although suing the government for negligence is not a good idea because there are other ways to build a school like fundraising, finding a sponsor and opening a non profit organization. A non profit org. organize by women will always get a government loan but anyway, this is Canada. In the US… since I am considered a minority,opening any type of business with business planning is to my advantage. As long as I can provide a complete data, business planning and projected income statement.. any amount is funded.

Email these parents to call another autistic school for guidance on how to start their own school. More parents of autistic children must also be involved so that funding of new school will be justifiable. I wish them luck.

mindanaoan on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:01 am 



supremo, nice thought but of mindanao’s 25 cities, only 1 is predominantly muslim. there is also now a beautiful concrete highway from pagadian to cotabato, passing through lanao del sur. no commercial buses ply the route.

karl_m_gar on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:17 am 



correct if wrong:

babylon is the modern day iraq
persia is the moidern day iran

vic,leytenian,

Been looking at your exchanges re:autism

I was interested because I had two brothers with autism. I say had because one went ahead already.

anthony scalia on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:19 am 



leytenian,

“who cares about the history of jews and the persians?”

i do. believe it or not, it has a bearing on the Christian faith. in case you don’t know, the Christian faith has jewish antecedents

“let’s deal with our very own problem.”

we are. don’t worry about Meralco, its management will remain in private hands. no matter how terrible it is run, government taking over it gives shareholders the creeps.

high electric bills is more tolerable than no power at all

cvj on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:20 am 



karl, that’s my understanding as well.

anthony scalia on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:21 am 



babylon is the modern day iraq
persia is the moidern day iran

yes, geographically. but socio-culturally, no

kg on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:49 am 



oops typed part of my email addy on the name.

Cvj,thanks.

Anthony,got you and thanks for the input.

like the kurdish,take salladin(crusades) he was a kurd from iraq.But now Kurdistan’s majority speak iranian.

leytenian on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:51 am 



anthony and bencard,
please don’t get me wrong. of course there’s a connection. sorry guys, my intention was to normalize the tone of the exchanges. didn’t mean to stop it. it was simply a sense of humor. have you noticed the ” LOL”? (smiling)

cvj on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:53 am 



I didn’t know Salladin was a Kurd. It’s like in that movie Gladiator where they kept referring to the character ‘Maximus’ (played by Russell Crowe) as a ‘Spaniard’. I got cognitive dissonance because he did not speak with a Spanish accent.

supremo on Wed, 28th May 2008 9:13 am 



mindanaoan :

’supremo, nice thought but of mindanao’s 25 cities, only 1 is predominantly muslim. there is also now a beautiful concrete highway from pagadian to cotabato, passing through lanao del sur. no commercial buses ply the route.’

It doesn’t matter if no commercial buses ply the route. There are parts of the US interstate highway that nobody uses. The point is it’s there. Ready for everyone to use. You reminded me of my high school English teacher. The LRT along Taft Ave. was being built at that time. The construction noise really annoyed her. She told us everyday during class ‘The LRT is a white elephant. No one will use it’. The last time I check there are 3 LRT lines. I wonder where she is now.

mlq3 on Wed, 28th May 2008 10:34 am 



grd yes, davao or baguio in terms of climate, culture, food, and everything that makes for a good quality of life.

vic on Wed, 28th May 2008 6:40 pm 



leytenian, what the parents were asking is the IBI fully funded by the Government within the Public School System which is available to all other children with Special Needs Already…In this country where Equality is Constitutionally Entrenced, Parents would like their Children treated not dissimilar to any other Children regardless of their disabilities…

My Manager, a young Filipino Engineer who just Immigrated a few years ago have a son with Polio. He is integrated into normal Catholic School (also publicly funded) with IBI during his first few years and now a very independent young boy and would give you a dirty look if you treat him differently. Most of them grow up to even drive their own specially modified cars. As much as possible special school for special needs are avoided if it can be integrated within the Universal System…this society is still evolving for the better..

leytenian on Wed, 28th May 2008 8:32 pm 



Vic,
i understand, polio children or any other type of physical disability do not involve mental or cognitive deficit. autism is a developmental delay of understanding and cognition. a 12 years old autistic child may be diagnosed as a 3 year old child. this is not about discrimination ,this is about understanding the disease process that could impact the type of treatment required. autistic child requires a one on one treatment and is better administer in a home type environment where everything is familiar and quiet. over stimulation will not help these children at all. ( I know because i used to be in the healthcare management, also a licensed therapist in the state of florida before going back to business school)

I agree with you for government to fund but the public school must hire therapists with specialty in psychology, speech and language and the classroom must be catered for them. One therapist is not enough for 5 children to be taught for at least 30 hours a week. it will require at least 3-4 therapists. A therapist ia about 60,000 to 80,000 per annum in US labor market. A one on one session could range from 40 dolars to 100 dollars per hour depending on the severity of the diagnosis. A regular teacher will be burdened to teach these children because most of them don’t have the medical background. They cannot teach these children and vice versa the children will not learn. Early diagnosis is crucial to educate parents on how to care for these type of children. Oftentimes, parents will be in denial for a long time.

In the case of Polio,these children can get into wheelchair and still able to comprehend a normal classroom because their cognition is seldom affected.

Do these parents have health insurance for their children? It can pay for the services. Not sure what healthcare benefits and yearly quotas Canada has. The only thing I know for sure, treatments are expensive. the private insurer can pay up to 80% of healthcare cost and the government can supplement the 20%. If the parents don’t have employer sponsored plan then they need to seek assistance fromthe government by way of disability income. Suing the government is not the right thing to do. Canadian government has great healthcare benefits. This case is not about public school.

vic on Wed, 28th May 2008 11:39 pm 



leytenian, in my previous post this program is already in initial stage, IBI in a one-to-one basis within the Public School system in a Universal Scheme settings. But as I also mentioned the case filed by these 5 parents was launced before the programs was introduced but was and has always been in every government agenda.

The issue at the Moment is how fast the Colleges can turn up Qualified Therapists to handle the numbers of all Autistic Children..As you might as well know, the Government here can not be selective, that’s why it takes a lot a debates and planning since this will involve a lot of Taxpayers money to Implement and it is implemented now and in initial stages..These kids already getting all other care benefits and that is the only remaining issue, the integration in the Public system with a one to one IBI therapist…which is what the parents were asking…

Canada has no health care quotas as soon as the procedure or the “care” covered by the system, no maximum at all, extended care coverage by employees have maximums, but mostly for lifestyle and non-basic care that are not covered by the Universal care and for Drug benefits for non-hospital patients..Low income and social assistant recepient, disabled, minor and seniors are fully covered, no maximum..and it eats about 40% or a little more of the Budget.

vic on Wed, 28th May 2008 11:49 pm 



And suing the Government here for every Constitutional issue is believe me or not is the right of every citizen and the court will always allow it. The case here is about Equality, and to bring more Awareness of the Plight of Autism and their right for access to Education just like every other child and it does not matter if it will cost the taxpayers $100 thousands per child or more..we care for AIDs patients at a cost of considerable amount plus disabilities pensions as they no longer capable of making a living, that is EQUALITY..

leytenian on Thu, 29th May 2008 6:52 am 



Vic,
” bring more Awareness of the Plight of Autism”

good reason to sue the government. awareness is the key. but getting billions of taxpayers money may not be to the judge liking or to majority.

vic on Thu, 29th May 2008 12:44 pm 



leytenian, in every lawsuit, the plaintiff must specify or quote some figures. considering the thousands of Autistic Children in this Class suit, they came up with that Figures, which the courts when deciding will always consider the capacity of the dependants to pay and it could be an award for symbolic of a $1 and the cost of court or recognition of claims..

here is one Precedent for this type of Constitutional Lawsuit:
George Hislop, A Gay Activist sued Canada Pension Plan for the right to Claim the Pension Benefits for a Dead Partner (same sex) on behalf of all same sex couples, but Pension Canada refused the benefits because the law states that “marriage is the Union of man and woman at the exclusion of all others” >But the l982 Charter Section 15 provision which the challenge was based, clearly states that “Every Individual is Equal Before and Under the Law,….” and the courts in 3 provinces agreed in 3 other different challenges..the Crown (government) didn’t not even bother to challenge the court rulings but Forked Out Millions to pay for the “Widow” benefits retro active to l985 (the charter provision took effect after 3 years of passing) to all same sex “widows”..

that how same sex marriage became legal in Canada…

leytenian on Thu, 29th May 2008 8:21 pm 



Vic,
“leytenian, in every lawsuit, the plaintiff must specify or quote some figures”

true and transparency of numbers is what constitute as witness.

“But the l982 Charter Section 15 provision which the challenge was based, clearly states that “Every Individual is Equal Before and Under the Law,….”

that’s Rule of Law. it is always practice in a civilized society but in our country, not sure when these leaders learn the right way.

UP n student on Fri, 30th May 2008 4:20 am 



vic: has the legality of same-sex marriage in Canada extended beyond money? For example, does a same-sex couple have the same rights to adopting a child as the traditional couple?

vic on Fri, 30th May 2008 7:37 am 



upn,
yes, same sex couples do even have the rights for paid parental leaves given traditional couple let me compute: one year minus 17 weeks for maternity, paid and divisible beteen parents. It is now EQUAL…and Sex realignment surgery(sex change) is listed again upon being delisted from the Provincial Health Coverage 10 years. Been covered since l97l but was delisted by the Conservatives 10 years ago. now it’s free again for those who wants to convert, of course with “rigorous psychological” prerequisites as per the Health Minister…

vic on Fri, 30th May 2008 7:47 am 



The parental leave is applicable upon adaption of a child for every child, just like the parental leave allowed traditional couple for every child birth or adaption…and also the common law relationship (continuous relationship of at least 3 years) applied to traditional couple for the purpose of being considered married under the law for settlement of property or children custody upon termination of relationship or death of one partner is also applicable to both…

leytenian on Fri, 30th May 2008 8:44 am 



Vic,

Can a gay person citizen of canada petition a gay lover from overseas? LOL.

vic on Fri, 30th May 2008 9:22 am 



leteynian, Canadian immigration law in the area of spousal sponsorships has been extended to
include common-law partners and same-sex partners(requiring proof of having lived together in a commited sexual relationship for at least a year).

But for Fiancee Sponsorship, I’m not too sure yet, because the Marriage for Convenience, that is always not allowed as some of them is still at the discretion of the Immigration Officers in Charge to decide and also most countries where the same sex partner may come from does not recognize same sex marriage. But if the couple can get married in Canada or in a country where it is legal, sponsoring the spouse of Same Sex is the Same as the Opposite Sex…the simplest way is for the prospective partner to come as a Tourist, get married and get sponsored from Within the Country or both go to a country where same sex marriage is legal and start from there…

leytenian on Fri, 30th May 2008 9:37 am 



oic, california i think is now allowing same sex marriages but not sure with immigration policies. it’s interesting.

vic on Fri, 30th May 2008 10:12 am 



immigration is a federal government jurisdiction, so california law has no effect on immigration..

leytenian on Fri, 30th May 2008 10:36 am 



vic,
agree. i actually called a gay friend who are planning to get married in california, he told me the same ( federal jurisdiction). thanks Vic.

vic on Fri, 30th May 2008 1:49 pm 



welcome leytenian, sometimes it is confusing in the U.S, because crossing the State Line you could be subject to a different state’s law..whereas, criminal code is uniform all over Canada, while civil law is the same in all provinces except in Quebec which still follows the Napoleonic (French) Civil Code.. there is a little variation in Social Programs, but mostly similar laws in most…

mindanaoan on Sat, 31st May 2008 10:30 am 



supremo, how simplistic to think what’s good in one place should also be applied elsewhere. and as a solution to a completely different problem at that. not to mention we cannot afford to choose wrong priorities because we don’t have money.

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