One Day More
February 29, 2008 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
Listen to “One Day More.”
Itaguyod ang Katotohanan.
It is time to be COUNTED!
Join us at the Friday Inter-Faith Prayer Rally
Ayala cor. Paseo de Roxas – 4:00 to 8:00 PM
Where former President Cory Aquino and Jun Lozada will join us as we make the call for Truth and Accountability.
Black and White Movement, together with Hyatt 10/La Salle 60, MBC, MAP, Manindigan,
and other professional and church groups will assemble at the
AIM (Paseo de Roxas) Parking lot at 3:00 PM.
Please join us.
Sa Totoo Tayo. Now Na!
Today there will be people from all walks of life and different generations and varying political and non-political persuasions, coming together to make a stand.
It’s unfortunate that the focus on Makati will obscure the efforts being made elsewhere in the country. Whether a rally in Cebu City, or elsewhere, the only divide I see is between urban and rural Filipinos: though the majority, for some time now, of Filipinos are urban dwellers. I strongly believe the sentiments among urban Filipinos are converging while rural opinion won’t be far behind.
Returning to today’s rally, the authorities are pulling out all the stops: PNP renews warning about communists, terrorists at rally. They’re spooked.Yesterday, something remarkable happened at PUP, see: PUP bomb threat fails to stop Lozada. And something else happened, see: Dirty Tricks in Uniffors.
But two bloggers say it best.
Market Manila declares he will be there:
Because we live in a democracy by choice. Because not speaking up when you know something is wrong makes you an accomplice to the wrong. Because I think everyone must be held accountable for their actions, particularly where their actions impact the welfare of millions. Because of the increasingly brazen disregard for the laws and even basic ethics that should apply to educated individuals. Because in many ways, I am embarrassed to be in the same gene pool as those who are perpetrating and then possibly getting away with such outrageous actions. Because of dozens of other reasons I will keep to myself as I know you get the point.
A reply he gives to a commenter is zeroes in on the issues even more:
mapster, I agree that we have to do everything we can everyday. I pay my taxes and a LOT of them. I have never ever slipped a policeman lunch money. I have voted with a conscience and watched at the polls. I have volunteered services for politicians or candidates which I thought rose above the rest, and I have never accepted any gifts, compensation or positions for the effort. So yes, I think we have to do our daily bit. But I also used to believe that we had a high corruption rate because we were poor… and that somehow the petty corruption of the streets and licenses, etc. were a function of poverty. But that is simply not true. The folks who are implicated in multi-billion scandals are well to do, and as someone above says, how much money do they need to live a decent and comfortable life? And the Hello garci scandal was offensive precisely because it suggests that the elections themselves are rigged, hence the votes of the people are ignored. At the very least, we have to indicate a great deal of displeasure and let everyone know they can’t get away with these kinds of behaviors.
As for being in the company of crooks and wannabees as some intimate above, I think in all democracies people from all walks of life will band together for similar causes, though they all may not look, sound, or be the same. While some of the folks who will be there at the rally this afternoon are opportunists and perhaps not folks I would normally look up to, many others could or should be every day folks who simply want to say, TAMA NA! And while I am not the biggest of Cory fans, I think she IS someone to look up to and her presence is only one of the minor reasons I would show up this afternoon.
I agree with other sentiments about changing the system et al. But I would agree more that we need to change the people on a massive scale with folks that really want to do the BEST for their country, a noble and difficult scenario, I concur.
As for others, you are definitely entitled to your opinion and free to choose what you will, can or want to do. With Marcos it took 20 years to reach the “boiling point.†In subsequent administrations the flare ups occurred with less time required. But at some point, when we all are personally so incensed or affected directly, you too will feel the need to do something.
If you re-read the post above, I would like to point out that I only said that I WOULD BE GOING. Not that I thought all of you should as well, that is obviously your choice.
Touched By An Angel says,
Though not a popular choice by our Catholic Bishops, I believe, GMA has to go. Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo has to go.
I truly believe that The President and her people have engaged in so much lying that they can no longer recognize the truth even if it stared them in the face. (PDI) As to the next step to take, I will take one step, one day at a time. I do not have the answers yet but in time, I will discern it. Our Filipinos will discern it. I will be there at the The Interfaith rally…
Among young people, there will be those, like on a red day who will be there, as will Tristan’s Mental Assylum ristan’s Mental Assylum and Jamel Ignes who is attending a rally for the first time! (for the religious, see melo touch). Other young people share their views, and efforts at discernment: a slice of wine.. and a shot of cake.. points out the dividing line and respects those who have decided to speak up against the President. There are others who are still uncertain, yet watchful, like Prudence and Mandess, and such as student Timmyland or who remain ambivalent, who will not go but who will be keeping those gathered in their thoughts, see OFW jihAn.zillA. Sh, and Yeweifang’s blog .
Among more senior bloggers, Red’s Herring puts everything in perspective:
If the events that have led to People Power I (EDSA Revolution of 1986 or EDSA I) are any guide, revolutionary uprisings go through certain levels (of consciousness): First, the underlying belief by a sizeable segment of society that the rulers and certain institutional arrangements have lost legitimacy; second, certain intense participants or change agents have gotten around their sense of powerlessness and come to realize they have the power or capacity to effect the needed changes; third, the disaffected members of society have more or less formed a consensus as to the nature and or scope of the changes they desire to occur in lieu of the illegitimated rulers or arrangements, whether be it about a total systemic overhaul, a “regime change,†an extra-constitutional overthrowing of a corrupt or immoral government, etc.
My sense is that People Power III has already reached the first and second levels of consciousness described above. However, before the Great Beast “could take care of itself†today it has yet to hurdle the third level of consciousness.
For one, I have noted even the reformists in the military and the progressives in the civil society are still tentative about the scope and the nature of the changes to be sought (note should also be taken for instance that the mere suggestion during the Manila Peninsula “uprising†that a military junta was being contemplated has not sit well with potential supporters), while other veteran people power practitioners are apprehensive the next exercise “could again end up repeating a vicious cycle of simply ‘moving on’ in circle, and not leaping onward or to a higher ground†or a “new qualitative state. 
…Now, the question once again: Why is People Power III taking its time?
My own take is: There is yet no general consensus among potential people power participants and activists, as has been in EDSA I or EDSA II, as to what change to aspire for and institute.
Arguably, proposals for reforms or transformations, at odds with each other for the most part, still abound. To cite a few: some who believe the two EDSAs were both a failure aim this time to act against a failed system and plan to overhaul it either according to some rigid ideologies or based merely on the “best practices†of ongoing successful experiments; other groups are just angry and frustrated because of “relative deprivation†(middle class weighed upon with a looming downgrade to the next class complain how come only their counterparts in other regions are having all the fun); still others are focused only on struggling for control of the state apparatuses and effecting “regime change†while keeping both the political and economic structure intact; and specifically, accused coup leader and now detained senator Sonny Trillanes is eager to transform the nation “without reinventing the wheel†or whereas Bishop Francisco Claver can only entertain the belief that “our problem comes down to this: how to correct the aberration that is the present administration without destroying the stabilizing structure that is our democratic system of government.â€
…As a result, reactionary moves from old and once reliable alliances, the CBCP in particular, are silently taking place in the form of tokenism (a plea to President Arroyo to take lead in the fight against corruption) and diversion (a call for a new brand of People Power through “communal actionâ€).
Mon Casiple on the part of the political pundits, observes,
The nature and circumstances of this political crisis is such that it can only have one resolution: the end of the Arroyo regime within the context of the existing electoral democracy. From there, it may result in the affirmation of this electoral democracy and thus the integrity of the 2010 elections. Or, more remote, it may lead to the ending of the electoral democracy itself. At any rate, these are the days of reckoning.
The people’s consciousness and readiness to action are developing by leaps and bounds. The usual tactics by the GMA administration are not working anymore and proved to be ironically pushing faster the momentum for change. From the JDV triumphal ouster to its present travails, the Arroyo administration has rapidly traversed a half-circle towards a downward spiral.
What’s Casiple referring to? I can only guess, but think of this. Did you notice the article, 52 governors troop to Palace to show support for Arroyo ? A friend encountered one of these governors on a plane bound for Manila, and the governor prattled on about how he was going to Manila on business -only for my friend to see the governor on TV lurking near the edge of the gathered governors. Said my friend: you see, they’ve begun to get embarrassed over their support for the President (the governor knew my friend’s an oppositionist; but a mere month ago, the governor would needle my friend and crow about the President every chance he got). And the news leaves an even bigger question hanging: what of the other 29 governors?
Recall that one of the officials proclaimed a convenor of the Loyalist rally in Manila on Feb. 25 pointedly told the media, “oh, I’m in Manila doing shopping.”
While Amando Doronila notices that:
Speaking to a joint meeting of the Makati Business Club, Management Association of the Philippines and PinoyME Foundation last Feb. 26, Aquino did not make a pitch for another People Power uprising, to the disappointment of many people. She merely called on President Arroyo to step down, saying it was the least disruptive way out of the “severe moral crisis†facing the country. She said, “She must give way to a credible government that could lead by example. Given our concern to protect the moral pillars of democracy, the extra-constitutional removal of the President is not an ideal we would want to aspire for.â€
Aquino’s call for restraint was echoed by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines, which in a pastoral statement on Feb. 26, called on the President to allow her officials to tell the truth about the slew of allegations of corruption related to several government transactions, but fell short of demanding her resignation. Instead, the bishops urged the President to be “part of the effort†to seek the truth.
The coyness of Aquino and the disappointing position of the bishops restraining people power highlighted the departure from the dynamics of 1986, when Aquino rode the crest of a forceful people power movement driven by the activist archbishop of Manila, Jaime Cardinal Sin, and the mass civilian participation in street protests in support of the military mutiny led by Marcos’ Defense Minister Juan Ponce Enrile and Constabulary chief, Lt. Gen. Fidel Ramos.
Today’s configuration has lost the fervor for mass action of 1986. It tells us that today’s movement is not based on mass action to bring pressure on the key support institutions of government to defect, such as the military and the bureaucracy. Today’s movement has changed emphasis. It has shifted its cutting edge from confrontation in the streets to bringing moral pressure on government. The shift is not exerting a powerful pressure on government officials to step down. It emboldens them to stonewall.
Though as the Inquirer editorial today points out,
We realize that, in itself, the language of the recommendation (“Urge the President and all the branches of government to take the lead in combating corruption wherever it is foundâ€) seems to be neutral. But in the present context, it actually disregards a fundamental reality. In the scandal over the National Broadband Network, the President and her men have been less than forthright in telling the truth. That, in fact, is one of the reasons we have a crisis in the first place.
Apropos of the bishops, read An Open Letter to the CBCP at Brown SEO.
(courtesy of pedestrianobserver)
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Silent Waters on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:03 pm
An excerpt from the column of Amb. Ernie Maceda
“Politicians now welcome. The Black and White Movement’s exclusive “no politicians allowed†policy for today’s Ayala Rally was rejected by other organizations when Makati City Mayor Jojo Binay threatened to pull out of the rally. Binay said “I am a politician, so exclude me too. Former President Cory is a politician, and so was Ninoy and now Noynoy. I am out and you can build your own stage.â€
By the way, who are members of the Black and White Movement? We only see Vicente Romano and Leah Navarro. Maybe they should release the list of their members and explain who are black, who are white and who are gray.
Maybe the Black and White Movement can stage a rally exclusively by itself and show any attendees it can gather. UNO and the politicians have proven several times we can gather 20,000 anytime.”
This is the reason why I am so wary of joining the rallies.
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:10 pm
“This is the reason why I am so wary of joining the rallies.” -Ernesto Maceda, Trapo
Well, that’s great news motherfucker!
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:12 pm
Tonight the pro Gloria rallyists will celebrate mass and all that at the welcome rotunda. I will drop by that rally after the Makati rally so I can take pictures and listen to the homily of their priest.
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:15 pm
the expletivw was not addressed to you silent waters. it was addressed to maceda, a trapo who can make gloria and mike look honest and respectable by comparison
Silent Waters on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:16 pm
Mr.Buencamino
For somebody who claims to be a diplomat (in your previous blog commenatries), you certainly have colorful language.
Silent Waters on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:19 pm
Mr. Buencamino,
I think you still should not have used such colorful language.
I am just telling you that this is one of the reason why these rallies do not prove anything to ME yet. Kasi mga trapo ang nandiyan. Even Erap, if I did not misunderstand the news, is going to be there. Mr. Lacson is also going to be there. Baka naman mabalik lang sa kanila ang kapangyarihan, if not in form, in substance.
Silent Waters on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:20 pm
ALso, I think you misunderstood the excerpt. Mr. Maceda is telling people to join the rallies. I am saying I don’t want to join as politicians will be there. Hakot lang nila rin. Padamihan lang ng hakot ang pinagmamalaki niya.
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:23 pm
manuel,
Maybe you should leave the profanities to me.
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:24 pm
What’s wrong with the site, the borders have been removed. Manolo, please embed the youtube video again. delete the code first and re-embed.
Jeg on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:26 pm
SilentW, who cares if politicians will be there? Ano talaga laman ng puso mo? Yun ang sundin mo. Wala nang paki kung ano man ang ginagawa ng mga nasa labas ng puso mo, kesyo politician man sila o nagtitinda ng taho.
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:28 pm
The difficulty of mass rallies today and the deliberate method in which critical mass is achieved should be a lesson to civil society and all concerned citizens. EDSA may not be dead but it’s getting difficult. We have only one option, the politicians have several and, obviously, Gloria has been educated by the mistakes made by Erap.
magdiwang on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:29 pm
I really feel bad for the Black and White Movement if Mr Maceda is to be believed on what he wrote. I mean B&W have very good intentions in promoting good governance. I guess sometimes reality trumps idealism. Philippine politics is so dirty that if you want to dabble on it, you sometimes have to compromise certain principles.
Silent Waters on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:39 pm
Jeg
I have learned my lesson. Paulit ulit na lang ito, tanggal palit, tanggal palit. Kahit sino ilagay mo riyan, ganun pa rin. Ginawa na natin kay Marcos, Kay Erap at ngayon kay Gloria. Panahon lang ni FVR nanahimik ang bansa natin.
Kung palagay ninyo, dapat tanggalin, kayo ang bahala. Pero nakikini-linita ko na na hindi ito ang huling pangulo matatanggal dahil sa people power…dahil ang iluluklok din diyan, pulitiko rin.
Lahat ng mga taong ilinukluk na inakala nating idealistic nung nasa labas pa sila ng kulambo..ano nangyari??? Si Tiglao, Si Defensor, Si Neri….
Bakit di na lang kaya kayo ang tumakbo sa puwesto. Tignan din natin kung gaano kayong tatagal sa pagiging malinis..
Peace
Jeg on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 1:46 pm
Bakit di na lang kaya kayo ang tumakbo sa puwesto. Tignan din natin kung gaano kayong tatagal sa pagiging malinis..
Haha. SW, naunahan mo ako. Yun sana ang imumungkahi ko sa ‘yo. Hayaan mo, si Atty Lacierda hinihimok si MLQ3 na tumakbo. Malay mo.
Ayoko sana’ng mag-benign0 pero kung ayaw natin ng politiko, bakit politiko ang binoboto natin? Sa susunod na halalan, kung wala tayong makitang hindi-politiko, tama lamang na ilagay sa balota, “wala”.
Naalala ko dati may magandang mungkahi si MLQ3 na mga gobernador at mayor ang tumayong Kongresista, pero tignan mo, mga gobernador at mayor ngayon ang isa sa mga pinaka-haligi ni GMA.
Kaya lalong mas kailangan natin ng People Power, o ang pagpapalakas ng taong-bayan. Para matakot sa atin ang mga hinalal natin. Unti-unti, kaya yan. Kung pagod ka na sa paulit-ulit, pahinga ka muna. Kakailanganin ka namin sa susunod.
Diego Torres on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:14 pm
I will be at Ayala and these is my wish list:
1. Arroyo must go;
2. Noli can go, too;
3.
Diego Torres on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:15 pm
3. If Noli stays, the Comelec must be overhauled/revamped;
4. Judiciary next;
5. Bureucracy ratinoalized;
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:27 pm
ganyan din lang naman pala ang gusto mo di gawin natin tanggalin na lang ang halalan. idaan na lahat sa people power total mukhang hindi ka naman napapagod. tingnan mo ang mga kasamang personalidad na bumubuo ng people power ngayon sila yung napeople power noon o natanggalan ng poder. ika nga ni silent paulit-ulit lang yan. it’s a cycle. so maige talaga idaan na sa people power ang pagpili ng lider. sigurado pang matino ang mapipili dahil matatalino ang pumili. sa halalan may dayaan pa at maraming botante ang bobo at nabibili.
Jon Mariano on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:30 pm
SW, palitan na lang natin si Gloria ng kahit sino. Si Gloria wala nang chance magbago, ang ipapalit sa kanya meron pa di ba? I don’t buy the argument na lahat lahat sila ay pareho lang naman kaya huwag na lang palitan si Gloria. I will take a chance on somebody new.
tonio on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:33 pm
yup. hell, i’d even go with ColdKing for president. he’d be crazy enough to kill the corrupt people in government. just give him enough guns and bombs.
Jon Mariano on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:34 pm
grd, sino na ba ang natanggal sa pamamagitan ng people power? Di ba si Marcos at si Erap pa lang naman? Sino ba sa dalawang ito ang naibalik sa pwesto, di ba wala naman?
At saka, ano na ba ang mga lessons learned natin sa People Power? We can use those lessons if ever Gloria si gone! If you don’t like Gloria, then ask her to go. Doing nothing right now means that you want her to stay. That’s your choice and that’s fine. If somebody else’s choice is to join the call for her to resign, then that’s fine too, di ba?
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:36 pm
o, kita nyo gusto nyong matanggal si gloria tapos yung legal na papalit ayaw nyo rin. dapat talaga idaan na sa people power lahat para masunod lahat ng gusto nyo. isama na rin yung sa mga lokal na pamunuan.
mindanaoan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:38 pm
Jon Mariano : I will take a chance on somebody new. and your neighbor prefers another somebody new, and another neighbor insists on somebody old like erap, and so on and so forth. perfect formula for chaos.
Jeg on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:41 pm
ganyan din lang naman pala ang gusto mo di gawin natin tanggalin na lang ang halalan.
Pwede rin yan. Di naman talaga kailangan ng demokrasya ang halalan. Kaso madami na tayo kaya nga representative democracy ang napiling paraan. Kaso marami pang problema na di naman siguro lingid sa kaalaman ng lahat.
so maige talaga idaan na sa people power ang pagpili ng lider.
May mas maayos na paraan sa pagpili ng lider. Pero tingin ko nasa tama kang landas. Kailangan lang maayos ng konti para lahat ng tinig maririnig, hindi lang yung maimpluwensiya. Marami talagang problema ang universal suffrage sa panig nating botante, at ng paraan ng pagkwalipika sa panig ng mga tumatakbo, i.e., kailangan marami kang pera.
total mukhang hindi ka naman napapagod
Ano, superman?
(By the way, all of the above are neither here nor there. Tingin ko sa comment mo, grd, red herring e. Ang topic kasi namin ni Silent ay ang pagsali ng politiko sa rally. Sani niya ayaw niya, sabi ko wala akong pakialam kung gusto din nilang umatend.)
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:42 pm
Wonder what happened to this new blog format, naka align-center lahat, medyo nakakahilo, hope that it’s not only in my computer. Noticed that Ellensville’s blog comments cannot be accessed, hmm, hope its temporary.
In any case, in several hours I’ll leave these fascinating analysis to you guys; got to do what one has got to do.
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:46 pm
jon mariano,
may sinasabi ba akong ayaw kong palitan si gloria? hindi ba ang sabi ko para maganda at masunod ang gusto natin idaan na lahat sa people power ang pagpipipili ng mga lider?
sino na ba ang natanggal o nais natin tanggalin pa sa pamamagitan ng people power? after ni marcos at maliban kay cory na namuno sa isang transisyon na pamahalaan si ramos lang ang hindi na people power. sige nga sabihin mo sa akin kung ano ang trend.
Lee on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:48 pm
Ang hirap makapasok sa blog mo! Bakit kaya? Dirty tricks na naman ba ito. O sya see you in Ayala.
tonio on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:51 pm
kabayan:
i think manolo’s tech people haven’t finished adapting his template to the new version of wordpress.
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 2:56 pm
jeg, i was responding to your 1:46pm post na reply kay SW 1:39pm post. clearly, your topic of discussion is not anymore about those politicans joining the rally but about people power at tangggalan ng lider.
Jeg on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 3:04 pm
jeg, i was responding to your 1:46pm post…
Ah, but the 1:46 post isnt about tanggalan at all if youll notice. It’s about politicos and people power as it has always been. (People power isnt just about tanggalan. Teka, baka yun nga ang akala ng mga tao; that PP is just about tanggalan.)
Anyway, I’ll be off in a bit. Thanks, grd.
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 3:07 pm
jeg,
tungkol naman sa pagpipili ng mga local leaders through people power, why not? kung kaya natin mag-organize ng people power sa national level why not in the local level? total naman palagi na rin tayo naloloko ng mga local representatives natin. di idaan na rin sa people power ang pagpili sa mga yan. that way, if pumalpak sila sa kongreso mapalitan kaagad. palagay ko puede naman sigurong maayos eto at maeliminate yung maraming problema na sinasabi mo. tayo naman ang nagimbento ng people power so walang karapatan ang ibang nasyon na humusga sa atin katulad ng sinasabi ni gloria na “the world will not forgive another edsa people power”.
Hopeless_BD on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 3:07 pm
lagi sinasabi ng palasyo wla na daw intest publiko sa rally—eh kng hindi ba naman sila gunggong eh pinahaharang nila mga gzto pumunta sa rally. tanga talaga!
kalmado daw sila ngayon eh kng alam ko lng nagpapanik na sila eh at naiihi na sa mga pantalon nila HAHAHA!
The Equalizer on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 3:44 pm
“My family has never made money illegally, much less made money from government. My father has always steered clear of any action that might even cast doubt on my mother’s integrity.”Luli Arroyo
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 3:50 pm
silent, have you heard the quote:
“Those who are truly fit to hold power are those who do not desire it.”
re B&W policy of no politicians, i think it’s a commendable policy. if we would give up our idealism, what would make us different from the folks we want to remove? yes it is hard, but setting the bar high is the only way to get others to aspire for the same standards. in fact, this policy is even more effective.
it screens out the opportunists, and identifies the genuine people really wanting change. even if that rally reach only small numbers, it’s identifying who your real allies (and those with the same principles as you) that would really prove important in the long run. achieving critical mass would just happen some day.
as for not attending bec opportunists are present? why not make it: attend so that opportunists won’t be able to hijack the change?
this goes with same argument as not voting. di ako boboto kasi ganon din lang naman, pare-pareho sila.
disengaging from the system only makes it worse. participating doesn’t make it better INSTANTLY, but at least it gives us the fighting CHANCE we need.
this is also the same with the thinking: dito na rin ako magtatapon ng basura, lahat naman ginagawa eh.
why follow hive mentality? do some things and make decisions based on what your heart tells you, not bec of some other people and what they do.
cvj on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 3:58 pm
grd has one foot on the other side already.
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:00 pm
jeg,
everyone knows that if you talk of PP or say edsa PP, it’s all about tanggalan. it’s a demand for the removal of whoever is the sitting inept leader either through force or voluntary resignation. it has been the symbol eversince. surely it’s not just about demand for reforms or good governance and second chances isn’t it? it’s a total display of lack of trust in the leader, or in the system it is a call for action through extra-constitutional means of removing a leader (as what pro PP in this blog has been advocating all along). otherwise, i think people like BW would not be wasting their time organizing this PP. maybe i’m wrong with my perception about PP? maybe you or mlq3 can enlighten me on this one. what exactly is the meaning and purpose of PP if not just plain “tanggalan”?
anyway, thanks also jeg for the pleasantries.
Hopeless_BD on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:07 pm
lam mo kaya nagkahetot hetot bansa ntin dhil sa mga selfish, greedy at family-oriented na mga kbabayan mo!
kng palitan ba nlng ntin yan mga opisyal mataas na yan hangang janitor sa gobyerno ng hapon edi sana may narating pa tayo!
tama si almonte kinokontrol ng mga oligarchs etong bansa ntin. maiaayos lng ang sistema kahit unggoy ang ilagay mo dyan sa govbyerno aasenso tayo!
benign0 on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:08 pm
“SW, palitan na lang natin si Gloria ng kahit sino. Si Gloria wala nang chance magbago, ang ipapalit sa kanya meron pa di ba? I don’t buy the argument na lahat lahat sila ay pareho lang naman kaya huwag na lang palitan si Gloria. I will take a chance on somebody new.” — Jon Mariano
Sana Erap would have a chance to run for president again so that we could establish once and for all the actual degree of the collective stupidity of Pinoy society.
Kahit sino nga ba?
benign0 on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:12 pm
“disengaging from the system only makes it worse. participating doesn’t make it better INSTANTLY, but at least it gives us the fighting CHANCE we need.” — DevilsAdvc8
Unfortunately, to use Mr. hvrd’s analogy — Pinoys would rather fnck democracy than make love to it.
Just like we perverted the concept of “Merry Christmas”, we’ve perverted not only democracy but People Power itself.
I wrote about the Pinoy’s propensity to pervert otherwise brilliant ideas way back in 2005:
“What was cited above is actually “adaptability” perverted into tolerance for mediocrity and impropriety. We have “adapted” so much to aversity that we now tolerate the worst of dysfunctions not only in our government but in the very soul of our society.”
Check out the full article here:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/10-5-perverted.html
-
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:12 pm
Napupuno na ang Ayala, I got to go before it fills up, bye guys and gals
Hopeless_BD on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:27 pm
wait for me!
lets party! haha
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:32 pm
cvj, can’t get my drift? pardon my sarcasm but my stand eversince is to remove the sitting president through constitutional process. make the system works and strengthen it.
tonio on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:34 pm
there they go…
there they go again…
tonio on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:35 pm
grd:
oh but that would mean doing things the right way man. since when did THAT ever appeal to people over here?
benign0 on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:36 pm
Fiesta Revolution!
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:41 pm
tonio, and that’s why we are bad. while erap, jvd hand in hand with cory are now on the good side.
tonio on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 4:42 pm
plus ça change, plus c’est la meme chose….
sorry for being sarcastic, but i promise you i will be the first to rejoice if i see something new come out of this..
tonio on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:00 pm
grd:
that’s cause our solution has no entertainment value. hahaah!
balatucan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:07 pm
manolo,
hindi ka ba mag la live blogging? Yung online radio putol putol. Yung online news naman ang bagal. Mamaya na talaga kami makakita pag TV Patrol na.
balatucan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:10 pm
“benigno
“disengaging from the system only makes it worse. participating doesn’t make it better INSTANTLY, but at least it gives us the fighting CHANCE we need.†— DevilsAdvc8
Unfortunately, to use Mr. hvrd’s analogy — Pinoys would rather fnck democracy than make love to it.
Just like we perverted the concept of “Merry Christmasâ€, we’ve perverted not only democracy but People Power itself.
I wrote about the Pinoy’s propensity to pervert otherwise brilliant ideas way back in 2005:
“What was cited above is actually “adaptability†perverted into tolerance for mediocrity and impropriety. We have “adapted†so much to aversity that we now tolerate the worst of dysfunctions not only in our government but in the very soul of our society.â€
Check out the full article here:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/10-5-perverted.html
-
”
You are out of tune. But anyone, your piece is relavant to those idiots massing in Welcome Rotunda.
You can still catch up. As of this moment, they have already prayed 2000 Hail Mary’s.
balatucan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:11 pm
Ooops… But anyway, I mean.
Floyd Buenavente on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:32 pm
Armed revolution anyone? (Thanks for the link Sir Manolo)
nash on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 5:39 pm
@grd
“through constitutional process….”
GMA resigning is still constitutional.
rego on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:06 pm
“cvj, can’t get my drift? pardon my sarcasm but my stand eversince is to remove the sitting president through constitutional process. make the system works and strengthen it.-grd”
This is what I dont understand, some people are trying really really sooooooooooo hard to make people power work. But there are existing and well defined processess and systems that I believe is easier to work on.
After joiningg two People Powers , I came to realized that people power just open more debates, arguments questions, confusions and even chaos. First and formeost there is a question on how many warms bodies really constitute a peopel power? Then who are the people and group of people behind it. And then what are the motivation of this people? Self interest or really sincerity to make the country move forward or Ego and Pride or Elitism or just simply flexing tmuscle for teh next election or Media mileage? There is really no clear and real way of determining them.
And then theere this concerns of manipulations and how do you protect peopel power from it. Peopel power is just sooooooo open to manipulations and other ill motives . Remember the talks that Mike Aroyo manupulated Peopel Power 2.
Id rather stick to Bencard’s advocay of Legality, Justice and Fairness. I believe is its a principled and reasonable compared to unstable and emotional approach like peopel power and resignation call. Id rather nor subject myself and the peopel to another round of never ending debates, arguments, confusion etc etc etc again and again and again
The Ca t on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:14 pm
Armed revolution anyone? (Thanks for the link Sir Manolo)
Wow taas na nama ng mga EQ.
balatucan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:21 pm
“rego
And then theere this concerns of manipulations and how do you protect peopel power from it. Peopel power is just sooooooo open to manipulations and other ill motives . Remember the talks that Mike Aroyo manupulated Peopel Power 2.”
I think its unfair to compare the mass actions now to what manipulation Big Mike did in 2001. This time the movement is driven by a higher and nobler cause. Social change and not merely leadership change.
Thats why 2001 is more like a naked power grab. This time around, if it will succeed in regime change, is truly a moral revolution.
The Ca t on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:23 pm
Minsan, hinala ko maka-Gloria si Erap.
Tingnan mo last rally, biglang siningit ang sarili niya as caretaker president, turned-off ang marami. hahaha
Silent Waters on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:27 pm
@ balatucan
sana nga…dalawang beses ko na narinig kasi iyan na moral revolution…..
The Ca t on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:29 pm
Noong umasenso ang Pilipinas dahil kay Ramos, credit ni Ramos, pag kay Gloria, kahit sino na lang, aasenso din ang economy.
Sige manghuli ka ng unngoy para maging presidente mo. Ganyan lang naman kababa ang tingin mo sa sarili mo.
nash on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:42 pm
@rego
“Bencard’s advocay of Legality, Justice and Fairness”
Huh?? Eh tanggap nga ni Bencard na there is nothing wrong with calling and exerting pressure on an election official during the counting eh….
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 6:54 pm
@ balatucan, is that the moral revolution being pushed by jdv?
@nash, you mean gloria resigning on her free will? nothing’s wrong with that, i think it’s legal. but realistically speaking, do you believe she will do that?… after 3 long years of this never ending “entertainment” as what tonio regard this whole brouhaha is all about?
Geo on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 7:01 pm
I read that the PNP is saying 12~15 thousand, while the organizers are saying 75~80 thousand.
Anybody have a first-hand account/estimate?
Mandaragat on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 8:03 pm
As long as there is no alternative in sight, GMA will remain in power until 2010.
Assuming GMA quits, De Castro is the next in line, constitutionally, babalik na naman ba sa EDSA kasi ayaw nila or ayaw namin kay Noli?
Pakita mo alternative, then I will decide kung susuporta sa rally o hindi.
Armed revolution naman kaya?
nash on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 8:39 pm
@mandaragat
well, it will serve as an example that if you aspire to be top sayote of the land, you have be fit and competent for it….hopefully, we will get better leaders because they know they would not survive if they are incompetent or corrupt.
@grd
no, realistically, GMA will not resign. She thinks God is on her side and that delusion keeps people like Mugabe in power. Sadly
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 8:46 pm
Flexing the muscle
There was a crush of people in Ayala, before I left in the afternoon, it was already 80,000 people and when I arrived they kept on coming and increasing. I would not be surprised if it already doubled by the time I arrived. It was funny; shortly before I left, helicopters and other aircraft were banned by the Air Transport Office from traversing the massive rally area, apparently this was to prevent any camera photos to have a real estimate of the numbers. Even up to now, this evil administration is clutching at straws trying to foment the Big Lie just like Hitler did during World War 2. Meanwhile the police are blocking incoming people from the province from the rallies, they were denying they were doing this however the police block was seen from the helicopter on the air. Another Big Lie. Our police are learning fast from the lies of the Big Liar in Malacanang. In, a way, I am not surprised.
Even up to now the crowd does not diminish for as some leave (some were assembled at the outskirts of the rally area since 1 PM) people keep on coming. It’s now beyond the 8:00 PM curfew but the crowd is maintaining its number.
Hi Manolo,
I would like to suggest a new paradigm in crowd estimates. I have noticed while the traditional method of counting people is using the old per square meter area estimate, this method does not count people leaving and arriving. For example if there are 250,000 people at a rally, even if the 250,000 goes home but 250,000 take their place, in totality there is in attendance in one time or another a total of 500,000 attendees. If the rotation of people is rapid, it is possible to have even three times the actual crowd, giving it a total of 750,000 people who attended in on time or another.
To Anti-corruption groups,
Good show, I know many of you are still out there as I can see you on TV. This is simply a first major step among many other major steps still to be taken to rid our nation of all these corrupt and abusive men and oligarchs in power. Continue to build, strengthen yourselves and list down people we want kicked out including so called trapo “allies”. The job does not end with Gloria being kicked out, in fact it is only the beginning. The evil and corruption is very deep, we have to continually degrade them even those who disguise themselves as wolves and balimbings in sheep clothing. Mabuhay kayo at Mabuhay tayong lahat.
Oh by the way … Don’t get cocky.
Nick on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 8:55 pm
Cebuanos also staged a rally… Many sectors of society, across all regions joined the call for resignation.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 8:57 pm
OFWs too staged rallies abroad calling for the resignation of Gloria Arroyo
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:07 pm
According current news media estimates, there was more or less 80,000 in the Makati rally.
This is not counting the crowd rotation total estimates. Not bad for a follow up rally
Metrocom Ini on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:09 pm
I agree with Mr. Buencamino on Mr. Maceda. Even when in the US on self exile, Mr. Maceda, probably not being able to help himself, also had a questionable reputation.
I suppose that it is really hard to go against one’s nature.
Silent Water, I think I know what you mean about being wary of joining rallies. I had the same sentiment until I realized that I was cheating myself from exercising my right to protest just because someone I distrust is also at the rally.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:10 pm
According to news reports, Gloria is not in Malacanang when the governors rushed to “support” her. She is suspected to have holed up in Camp Crame
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:18 pm
It’s now 9:17 PM, far beyond the 8:00 PM deadline, the program ended but the people are still there
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:25 pm
Kulang sa middle class ang rally. So few people. I was near the artista corner behind the stage. I went around before that. There’s not more than 2000 people there when I left. I went up and down ayala and paseo de roxas. Not many people. Well, at least I sweated it out for a couple hours.
Mandaragat on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:30 pm
@kabayan
baka merong free concert, di kaya?
frombelow on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:34 pm
observations at the rally, i was there.
the middle class and professionals need to exert more.
the left ( not necessarily the CPP-NPA) is still a political reality in the country.
there is really a sense of outrage, at least among the rallyists.
i think the outrage has not peak yet and there is still the absence of a feeling a snowballing movement.
but the protest movement has now gained a life of its own and only future developments whether it will lead to arroyo’s ouster.
arroyo is still favorite to weather the crisis but only if she played well and the protest movement played bad.
assuming that both played their cards well or bad, arroyo will be out in months, wanna bet?
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:47 pm
BrianB, you must have attended a different rally. while kabayan is saying that the rally is more than 100k and people keep on coming, you’re saying that so few people were there.
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:53 pm
No, I was there from 6:30 to almost 9. Just got back home, really. I live in Ortigas. Mga 2k lang talaga. Compare it to the crowd inside glorieta or any sizable mall. I’m not a mathematician, so maybe I got it wrong. Still, it’s an anemic crowd. The speakers are much louder than the crowd themselves, another reference point for the size. Not anywhere near 100k.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:54 pm
Haha, we were probably joining a different rally, there was a small pro-Gloria rally at Welcome Rotonda. Though I’m not certain if BrianB was referring to that.
Let the news camera speak for themselves
However in fairness, according to current news estimates it was at around 80,000. That does not count rotation estimates of course.
While there were people arriving, the early birds were leaving. When I and some people left, still others were arriving.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:57 pm
BrianB
We’ll see the news estimates tomorrow, and see who among us is more accurate okay?
torn on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 9:59 pm
I agree with BrianB. I have just come back from the rally and it was a disappointing affair, especially after all the talk earlier in the week. I was there from about 5.15 to 6.45 and I wouldn’t put the number at more than 15,000 (and that’s generous). What struck me as odd was the fact that even as I made my way to the rally, I saw people leaving even though it had hardly started and the speeches had not yet begun. I am not talking about office workers here, but people who had obviously come to rally. That suggests that even those who showed up weren’t that committed. The fact that it wasn’t possible to attract a decent crowd after the revelations of the last few weeks is surprising and disheartening.
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:03 pm
I’m not suggesting it’s a failure. I was just surprised at the 100k estimate. There were definitely some very sincere folks out there, especially the non-celebs.
Complain ko lang. There was someone giving away free bottled water (a cooler full of it), but he was positioned in the area occupied by the upper middle class (the artista crowd) while there were some very thirsty people down Ayala Avenue going towards Edsa. They were buying ice scramble and water in plastic bags.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:03 pm
torn,
Your estimates are the police estimates, the program started as early as 3 PM so it is not surprising that some are coming home, yet many are arriving. Air Transport Office has banned any helicopter from flying to give proper crowd estimates. The police too denied they were blocking protesters from the province, but they were caught in the camera of helicopters.
The Equalizer on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:04 pm
“Razon said the President happy throughout the briefing, especially after learning that the crowd in Makati reached its peak only at 15,000.”
They have to lie on every single thing happening in this country.Hopeless…
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:09 pm
BrianB,
You have just seen the tip of the iceberg, but no matter, believe what you want to believe. We’ll see the crowd estimates tomorrow okay?
I remembered someone saying the Feb 15, 2008; 9,000 people mass rally at Ayala was “supot”, now it is far more numerous.
Doesn’t matter what others believe, what matters is the growing movement geared against corruption.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:13 pm
Watch it on TV, the rallyists being blocked by police and prevented from joining. Check out the news regarding the Air Transport Office ban on helicopter flying and covering the rally; a lame attempt to prevent the media from properly estimating the crowd.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:16 pm
Gloria holed up in Camp Crame, scared shit I should say. Meanwhile the ***-licking governors went to Malacanang but were at a loss where to find her. Now who has lost her “commitment” now?
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:18 pm
SWS Survey, 76% percent of Filipinos have small or no trust in Gloria Arroyo.
In the US, Fil-Ams held demonstrations against Gloria Arroyo.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:19 pm
Sorry I think that was a Pulse Asia Survey.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:21 pm
The AFP and PNP gathered their tanks and soldiers at Aguinaldo and Crame, while Gloria cowers within.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:22 pm
Tomorrow, expecting Gloria’s spin doctors to make it look like a victory for her.
justice league on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:23 pm
Benigno,
Not that I want to pre-empt Jon Mariano but I’ll guess that based on his quoted statement and your post; you seem to have a different interpretation from him of the term “somebody new”.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:23 pm
Why Gloria? Can’t take the consequences of your deeds and the deeds of those close to you?
grd on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:26 pm
out in months… shall we start the official countdown?
DAY 1
The Ca t on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:27 pm
It depends on who gives the estimates. Don’t fool yourself.
Lozada failed to convince the people of his hero image.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:28 pm
Filipinos in US stage Anti-Arroyo rally in San Francisco and New York. More than 1,000 said to have participated.
Huge crowd of 10,000 protesters in Bacolod
500 protesters in Iloilo
200 protesters in Gen Santos City
Neri met with protest at Davao City
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:29 pm
CAT,
Actually, Lozada was more popular than Erap or Cory. He got a better response from people – from what I see on TV.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:29 pm
The movement grows, to my fellow anti-corruption protesters, build, develop and grow…
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:30 pm
grd, frombelow,
Don’t jinx the entire thing by betting on it.
hvrds on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:30 pm
Ninoy Aquino was part of the landed oligarchy. However he was one politician who refused to compromise with the dictator. He could have. But he did not. Jose W. Diokno was another. But he was way ahead of his time to be appreciated by the Filipino people.
Aquino was the equal of Marcos in ruthlessness and drive. In their battle of wills Ninoy never gave in. In the end there is no doubt the dictator or his people were so frigthened when he returned since Marcos was seriously ill.
That grinding commitment created the symbol of sacrifice that united enough people and eventually the dictator shot himself.
Politics and political action is more emotion than it is rationalty.
Hence those televised hearings are defining the reality for a lot of people.
Politics and religion are about rituals and symbolism. Trust and faith are abstracts.
Unfortunately the masses of poor people do not have time to think about the future and trust and faith will be translated on who can help one feed himself for the day.
The trapos are the social security safety net of the country. They work together with Church. The oligarchs make sure the system is kept in place. We are an ersatz state.
Reforms or reforming the system is a protracted process. Anyone thinking of another manner should think as the corrective process that shock treatment will entail will mean a pacification or re-education campaign that would and could go haywire.
In the country the moneyed and powerfull have debased the institutions to point that they do not work. Retribution and restitution are essential.
Recently the U.S. Senatorial select judiciary committee through their special counsel had subpeonaed the emails of a sitting V.P. in the person of Cheney. off course they are all now missing.
Check and balance. The imbalance in the social structure in the country cannot be sustained. A break up of the country would probably be in the offing. The country could operate like the E.U. The Europeans are all related anyway.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:31 pm
Visayas anti-corruption movement grows.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:34 pm
Most of the Stocks up today.
Carl on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:36 pm
Come to think of it, this whole exercise parang election din as both sides battle to win support on their side. But unlike a straight out election where individuals vote, we have institutions casting their votes as well like the military, the cabinet, church, business etc. Nung Edsa 2, yung vote ng military and cabinet tipped the odds in favor of GMA.
Say, if this battle will not be a protracted one contrary to what pundits here would hold, then GMA will have a fresh mandate if the opposition fails to topple her government in the coming days.
So ayan, the battle lines have been drawn, the people and our institutions are in the process of choosing, so whatever the outcome, let’s accept it and yes, “move on” for lack of better phrase.
Jon Mariano on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:36 pm
Si Cory, si FVR, si Erap, at si Gloria ay nasubukan na. Somebody new naman. Noli is fine too as he is the constitutional successor. Si Mayor Lim kung gusto niyo okay rin. Si KC Concepcion pwidi na rin
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:41 pm
This will not end in a “few days”, this will be a protracted movement to remove a corrupt and mafia-like governance. Anti-corruption movements does not believe in “instant noodle” victory.
A section of the rally filmed from one side of a building:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d4bva8D1lg
Now you know why they banned a helicopter to show the whole crowd
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:44 pm
Next time they will ban filming from buildings, wonder who would enforce this? The MTRBC?
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:46 pm
Ok, based on the YouTube video, definitely more than 10,000, maybe close to 20k. But this is in the beginning, right?
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:47 pm
Maybe they will ban the use of the handycam altogether, it is just “not fair” for the pro-corruption groups. Wonder who would enforce this, the BIR? Customs? LTO? Hmmm.
jakcast on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:48 pm
I agree with you hvrds. Found this in the abs-cbn site. I’m truly amazed on how media in this country spins things without giving their sources. Besides the ratings wars, is abs-cbn under instruction from the Lopezes to keep this alive for some score to settle with the Macapagals? Just asking. Don’t throw me out Manolo.
“Noli ‘all set’ to assume presidency. The vice president is in close contact with personalities who will advocate constitutional succession in case of a power vacuum
Exclusive to abs-cbnNEWS.com
By Aries Rufo”
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:48 pm
Heheh Brian dream on, that was from ONE SIDE of the building, they closed off a MAJOR INTERSECTION. An intersection has FOUR sides.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:49 pm
That is why the 2,000 estimate made me shake my head in incredulity.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:51 pm
Where were you BrianB? I thought you were there? Or did you just peep from afar?
alas ka dora on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:52 pm
No, I was there from 6:30 to almost 9. Just got back home, really. I live in Ortigas. Mga 2k lang talaga.-brianb
I was there 4:30 until 6:20 brian b check your mathematics
2K???
Sorry to have underestimated the crowd in my mind before this day. I was afraid we may not actually take action although, as surveys show, they beleive worst corruption is happenning in the present administration.
I took pictures of employees from UCPB, SGV, Assumption, Ateneo law,UP students, Adamson Students, and yes, Oscar Orbos.
I hope Mr. MLQ3 will allow me to upload pictures here.
I wouldn’t like the idea of trapos piggy backing on the successful efforts and genuine concern of the people to press for accountability and truth.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:53 pm
Now the smoke screen of the administration is broken, even the ATO helicopter ban came to naught. The administration has severely lied, is lying and will continue to lie for a long long time to come unless removed.
Carl on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:53 pm
The cabinet was a huge factor in determining the Edsa 2 outcome. But the military is the Ace of Diamonds in the president’s hand: I learned that lesson from the Hyatt 10.
Nevertheless, I think defections from GMA’s cabinet at this time is crucial to the opposition.
But ironically, the Hyatt 10 have unwittingly strengthened GMA’s hold on the cabinet as the 2004 event weeded out those cabinet men who would more likely defect given the events happening now.
alas ka dora on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:56 pm
third paragraph should read- Sorry to have underestimated the crowd befor this day. i was afraid we, the people, wouldn’t actually take action although, as surveys show, wwe are convinced that worst corruption is happening in this administration.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 10:57 pm
alas ka dora,
Up to now alaskadora, they still believe what they want to believe. Unless you’re really there and MADE THE ROUNDS you cannot see the truth. They tried to ban the helicopters and foment the lie, they blocked the incoming people from the provinces and claimed they were not doing this however they were caught in camera.
In the end the lie will be discovered since the estimated 80,000 plus those who later arrived knows the lie and tell this to their families. The lie if for the convenience and comfort of those who support this corrupt administration.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:01 pm
The Hyatt 10 had a conscience. The niceties of strategies by the corrupt does not matter. Corruption and abuse is continually exposed today. It does not matter if takes a long time or a short time, the anti-corruption movement will not allow such behavior to proliferate in governance.
BrianB on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:04 pm
kabayan,
I went around up and down ayala and then paseo de roxas. Two thousand lang talaga estimate ko. That is 6:30 and beyond
alas ka dora on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:06 pm
kabayan, hindi ko nga maintindihan sa mga opisyales natin alam naman nila na sa ginagawa nila lugi ang bayan ang panalo ang pamilya arroyo bakit hindi man lang sial mahiya.
i have been setting as an examble Mr. Abe of Japan the duly elected Prime Minister of japan after koizumi. At the mere instance showing the distrust of the people based on survey, it was enough for him to go. he was not even accused of corruption.
Ang kapal na ng mga mukha ng mga tao natin sa gobyerno walanghiya talaga.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:07 pm
Namalikmata ka lang siguro, anyway it does not matter, perhaps it is just what it should be. The youtube show speak for itself, it was taken from one side of the building. Let’s leave it at that.
alas ka dora on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:09 pm
I went around up and down ayala and then paseo de roxas. Two thousand lang talaga estimate ko. That is 6:30 and beyond.
Kasi nga as early as 6 may mga nagsi uwian na rin. isa ako dun sa mga umuwi bfore 6:30 because i live far. Nanay ako I still need to attend to my children after office.
Grabeng tao sa mrt!
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:10 pm
alas ka dora,
Nagtataka rin ako dati, pero ngayon hindi na. Kung ilang bilyon ang makukuha nila sa iisang transakyon lang, at paniwala nilang nabulsa nila ang Kongreso, pulis at militar, lumaki ang ulo. Akala nila hindi sila hahabulin ng karma ng kanilang pinaggagawa.
Jason Born on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:10 pm
Breaking News
Gloria had already stepped down after the people in the rally threatened here to KICKBACK. He He.
Jason Born on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:12 pm
correction 101: (threatened her not here)
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:12 pm
Corina Sanchez Live in TV today 11:12 PM , estimate tonight already at 85,000 people. Umuwi ako ng 7:30pm at marami pang iba. If that is accurate, 100,000 people including those who went home a while ago should be easy.
The Equalizer on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:14 pm
Expect the following:
1)Gloria and her “GloLiars mob” will argue that the “crowd was very small”(police estimates:15,000,rally organizers:75,000 and Reuters :50,000).
2)GloLiars will also say that protest rally confined to “Imperial Manila”.The rest of the country remains very happy with her.
3)The majority of the rally crowd was composed of students and young people.Student power is truly on the rise!
4)The unthinkable happened.Ex-Presidents Cory and Erap on the same stage.We now have the two ex-presidents versus Gloria and FVR on the other side.It’s no brainer to guess which side has the popular appeal.
5)The people have drawn the line on the sand.The bishops will have to take a stand soon(“manindigan!)or become irrelevant.
6)The crowd remained cohesive even after Presidents Cory and Erap left the stage.This
is a growing movement that does not revolve around personalities.
7)Gloria sought refuge,literally and figuratively,in the military camp during the height of the rally.It shows her state of mind.
8)The Movement for Truth and Accountability is leaderless.”The ability to get along without an exceptional leader is the mark of social vigor.”Eric Hoffer
9)The big mistake of Gloria is her complete reliance on the military.In the end,will the military side with her or with people?
10)Gloria is acting like a wounded puppy.Senator Dick Gordon warns “I’ve always been a risk taker but we have to be careful because it could be a ‘coup me,’” referring to a scheme by which a coup would actually benefit the administration.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:14 pm
The people does not seem to want to go home, they’re really outraged.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:17 pm
Anybody has a TV right now showing the site, watch it. Let the live film of Ayala protest speak for itself.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:17 pm
Spin doctors probably preparing to say tomorrow the whole affair as “supot”.
Kabayan on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:21 pm
I rest my case
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:42 pm
to everyone who went to makati…my CONGRATULATIONS FOR STANDING AND BEING COUNTED!!! but the work is not finished yet until we get rid of the illegal squatters in malacanang! and prosecute for the crimes they have committed against the entire nation.
nash on Fri, 29th Feb 2008 11:57 pm
whether it was 100, 2000, 40000 or 5, at least they were brave enough to stand up for their convictions.
renmin on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:01 am
2,000 people? 15,000? “disappointing affair”?
That Youtube video doesn’t even show the crowd along Ayala from the corner of Paseo to Makati Ave. and beyond. That’s where the contingents of Watch, Pray, and Act (the Catholic schools) and BAYAN (national democrats) were positioned. Watch, Pray and Act occupied one lane (Stock Exchange side), BAYAN the other. These were the two biggest organized contingents in the rally.
cvj on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:07 am
Kudos to all who attended the rally. Thanks to the organizers, great job!! It was a good size crowd and i liked Lozada’s speech. He was in his element.
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:13 am
NOw you should undertand why other people don’t join the rally. You just don’t call them apathetic and pro-corruption. They have also families. They work 6 days a week and one day holiday is big time for them to be with their families.
You are not the only commenters/bloggers na magaling lang sa mga discussion pero pagdating sa totohanan, excuse na sila. Kasama lang sa gayak. hohoho
Di bale iba yong iba. Kina-reer na nila ang magrally. Kung baga investment. PAg naupo ang kanilang tao, tiyak na ang position nila sa gobyerno.
YOng iba naman ang pilit. Just like the University of Makati staff and students. Ano kayang memo ang natanggap nila para sumali? Sana naman si Mayor Lim, hindi ginagawa yan sa PLM.
Jon Mariano on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:28 am
Nice try Cat, if some people here are trying to increase the number of participants, on the other hand you’re trying to hit on the reason why people join rallies? Did you do a survey? Huwag mo naman sasabihin na kaya mong mag-read ng mind? Ano iyan, superman?
Carl on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:29 am
Itanong natin kay Ms. Either-We-Have-Press-Freedom-or-Not Maria Ressa.
Anonymous on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:30 am
To all those who went and participated, congratulations for being brave and making a stand.
Carl on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:38 am
Not joining the rally is standing up for one’s convictions. Inaction is a decision.
Just because someone doesn’t agree with your views and join you doesn’t mean he doesn’t hold a conviction.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:45 am
tonio, no it’s because your solution is a non-solution. new regulations are being drafted so that neda cannot release any documents to the public without presidential permission. in contrast to the way it was, say, in winnie monsod’s day. the purpose is of course to fend off even the formal revocation of eo 464 in case the supreme court decides harshly against the president on march 4.
it’s because your solution relies on a president who sneers at a supreme court decision making inutile the portions of eo 464 manny gaite wrote to shield the president, and why students and teachers have to go to the streets just to demand the president do what she ought to have done the moment the supreme court struck down the controversial portions of her order.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:46 am
balutacan, sorry nasa rally ako kanina.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:47 am
and i find it funny the loyalists are sneering at erap -who pardoned him, i wonder?
UP n student on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:49 am
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:50 am
geo, you can see the link yesterday for how to compute crowd estimates. i was in the middle, at the crossroads. at its height, from there the crowd stretched to about makati tuscany/gilarmi going towards edsa; to roxas triangle and buendia on the other; to the makati fire station and buendia again; behind the stage, only to bpi family bank. that was at its height before jun lozada spoke at around what, 630? as soon as he spoke, people started to leave. i can’t say though how densely packed it was, but not too densly packed except from around 530-630. personally i think it was larger than the largest rally prior to this, which is when susan roces addressed the crowd at makati in 2005.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:52 am
End-Game (Partial until there’s agreement on the number of Pawns at play)
8. While green is color of current revolution, former King arrives in red.
9. New cult Bishop (who wanted to be King in 2004) calls for transition court.
10. Star Pawn speaks (he earlier admitted cheating on his lady, but that’s beside the point. Present game is after high crimes)
11. Meanwhile, Queen holes up in Knight’s garrison
12. Queen happy that only 15,000 Pawns attend
13. Queen survives second uprising of third revolution.
carlos on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:52 am
The crowd today couldn’t even fill up Araneta Coliseum.
Tsk.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:03 am
jakcast, i actually think the lopezes are being extra prudent, because gma has them by the balls over meralco. ever wonder why christian monsod is so ardently pushing the keep her until 2010 movement?
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:05 am
Best to stop analyzing and just go there whenever a rally against the liar, cheater and thief is called.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:05 am
well, the amusing thing about the no-fly-zone order was: now the palace can’t debunk even inflated opposition claims, but then, neither can the opposition prove its claims.
but everyone’s missing the point. a loyalist rally took place tonight, at the welcome rotonda. people stood up for the president. except i don’t know if even the pnp bothered to count them.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:09 am
She’s even trying? Her best option is to ignore everything. See no people, hear no people, don’t feel for the people.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:11 am
Thanks, mlq3. Ms. Luli has been complaining that they are given air time to reply.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:12 am
carlos, i’ve been to the araneta colisseum plenty of times. it certainy would have been filled to the rafters.
but anyway, on sunday why don’t you go to the araneta colliseum where admu vs dlsu will play an exhibition match to raise funds for the whistleblower fund? with ust as cheerleaders.
please, go. and cheer for the president.
you should have gone to the welcome rotonda and saved us taxpayers 200 pesos.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:14 am
Meant: Ms. Luli has been complaining that they are not given air time to reply.
March 1st, 2008 at 1:11 am
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:15 am
jakast, you can see, any time something is going on a whole parade of government officials invite themselves to push the party line. they have no shortage of airtime minutes.
vic on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:16 am
MLQ, Here is a scandal brewing that could explode or fizzle depending on the outcome of the RCMP investigation, but not posting it as may distract the discussion at the moment, but it touch on some sort of Bribery in Government that was just revealed in a book..you may check it here in today’s headline:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/308112
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:22 am
Luli is going to need a psychiatrist after this.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:30 am
But that ABS-CBN piece on VP Noli talking to puschists (I’m not sure of the spelling but you used loyalists) of a post-GMA scenario is poor judgement knowing that he was and is still close to the station. I read it as planting seeds of doubt.
Aames on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:37 am
I am dismayed at the presence of the ex-convict Estrada at the rally, sitting on the stage beside former president Aquino, at that. So the enemy of our enemy is now our friend?
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:46 am
jakcast, unless it’s true. though you do have a point. what if he’s been sending feelers to many groups? every instance should be reported, i suppose.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:47 am
aames, how can you be dismayed when you don’t even sympathize with the various issues that drew people to that rally??
that’s like my saying i’m upset the president hangs out with drug lords like luis villafuerte.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:49 am
In that case, a pressure point will be to VP Noli. I pity the guy.
TheColdKing on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:50 am
BWA HA HA HA HA HA, YOU CAN REALLY TELL HOW DESPERATE THAT BIGGEST BITCH IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD IS ALREADY BY HOW MANY OF HER PAID-HACKS ON THIS MESSAGEBOARD ARE IMMEDIATELY TRYING TO DOWNPLAY THE SUCCESS OF THE RALLY TODAY.
YES, THE SAME CYBER-WHORES* THAT HACKED THIS BOARD AND ELLENVILLE YESTERDAY AND THE DAY BEFORE, ARE NOW TRYING TO MAKE US ALL FEEL BAD ABOUT THE SUPPOSED “FAILURE” OF THE COMMUNAL ACTION , BUT THEY HAVE NOT FOOLED ME, AND I HOPE FOR YOUR OWN SAKES THEY HAVE NOT FOOLED ANY OF YOU EITHER.
* NOW DO YOU BELIEVE ME ABOUT THE BLOGGING BRIGADES OF MALACANANG?! I REALLY DON’T KNOW HOW, IN A WORLD WHERE THE CHINESE HAVE THEIR OWN OFFICIAL CYBER-HACKER ARMY, THE RUSSIANS RECENTLY ENGAGED IN A CYBER-INVASION OF ESTONIA, AND WEBSITES ACROSS THE WORLD ARE CYBER-ATTACK EVERYDAY, YOU PEOPLE CAN STILL REMAIN SO NAIVE ABOUT THE VERY REAL POSSIBILITIES OF CYBER-WARFARE?!
TheColdKing on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:53 am
OH BY THE WAY, ABOUT THE SO-CALLED LOYALISTS OF GMA, IT WAS SHOWN ON ( IRONICALLY ) GMA NEWS, THAT NOT ONLY DID MANY OF THEM NOT EVEN KNOW WHY THEY WERE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, EVEN THE REGULAR PEOPLE AROUND THEM ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY WERE MOSTLY “BAYARAN HAKOT” , SO MAKE OF THAT WHAT YOU WILL!
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:05 am
So, this S.O.B. tagalog is still alive.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:07 am
Henceforth, I’ll call you “TheColdCut” for your tiny weiner. Everyone knows Bisayas have bigger dicks.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:13 am
This guy thinks I didn’t mean it when I said I required an apology for all Bisayas.
Aames on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:20 am
mlq3, I don’t understand your comment. I am against corruption and the rally was a stand against corruption. What was the ex-convict Estrada doing there?
Will on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:36 am
my two cents:
aames, i support your cause. but one at a time, one at a time. estrada carries the votes of the masa–believe it or not, he was a good man. he won the trust of this masa enough to bring them to the so-called Edsa 3. to cut him down now would also cut down the strength of labor and the masa.
you noticed that estrada was a little disconcerted in his presence in the rally? with his pardon hanging over his head, he and arroyo are certainly “two sides of the same coin”. but think of it this way: he, at least, did his fair share of punishment. maybe not enough, but we were vindicated. the bitch is a different story.
to those who are anti-edsa:
“those who are not with us are against us; those who are against us SCATTERS”
to everyone else:
do you hear the people sing?
singing the songs of angry men
it is the music of the people
who will not be slaves again!
when the beating of your heart
echoes the beating of the drums
it is a start of a new life
when tomorrow comes!
hawaiianguy on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:38 am
BrianB, why? Are you a Bisayan? (Cebuano?)
hawaiianguy on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:44 am
Just watching at the news (TV Patrol), I could say that the police estimate was a downplay (dumbplay could be a better term). I may be wrong, but I think the protesters could be anywhere between 50k to 80k at the time of the newscast. It’s a lot, lot bigger than the previous rally.
Kabayan, and all those who were there, your guess estimates are much better than the “folis” figure.
(Sigh!)I wish I were there.
UP n student on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:53 am
Will: I like that song!!!! But you did not quite tell the ending, and Marius singing.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:55 am
When you lambaste a people that makes up half this country, you are not only showing your prejudice but saying in effect you have no clue what democracy is all about.
rom on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:13 am
brianb:what did he say?
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:25 am
aames, well, let’s look at why he was there. he was impeached. the people rebelled, he went home, he was charged, so he was jailed, he was convicted, and he was pardoned.
so legally speaking he’s a perfectly free man and starting afresh in the law.
the rally was for the truth in getting to the bottom of many things.
again, come to think of it, he’s a pretty good poster boy for the system at least functioning sort of, kinda. instead of not functioning, totally, completely, as it is now.
hey, i’m beginning to see why he still gets lustily cheered.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:32 am
Sen. Gordon today mentioned about some of the unresolved issues I was saying about the 1986 and 2001 upheavals: who killed Ninoy Aquino?, compensation for human rights victims, claims on Marcos wealth. I’ll add these: who killed Bobby Dacer? who’s telling the truth/lies, Erap or Chavit. Senator Gordon called “no closure” issues. I call them scores to settle. For as long as we keep them in inventory, we will have more, and more of these days of reckoning. And more frequent. Am i pro-corruption for raising these? Certainly not. Realist maybe. Are these part of vibrant democracy? Maybe. But please let us not try to enforce our politics to the people in the countryside, who in all simplicity, may just be trying to earn a daily living.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:43 am
TheColdKing
This can also be directed to the OFWs. Hnestly, I don’t know what Beho means.
bogardo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:17 am
We had a company Christmas party last December @ SMX and it did not really require too much area to fit us 8000+ employees. Looking at how compact and massive the crowds were in both sides of Ayala Ave and and Paseo de Roxas Ave, the 15,000 estimate was, I’m sorry to say, either done by a sane person who can count only up to 15000, or else a lunatic who was trying to sell us a joke. I’d say at least 50,000 thousand just within the 200 meter radius of the stage, and since I think it stretched further than that, 80,000 would have not been impossible.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:23 am
BrianB, rom, coldking,
Ah, what coldking said is unacceptable not only to Bisayans but also to Tsinoys (“beho”). It’s a statement that reeks of ethnic prejudice, no matter where you look at it.
That’s the same as the movie “Sakal, Sakali, Saklolo” which earned the ire of Sen. Pimentel (a Bisayan), because it is derogatory to all Bisayans. He cited the portion of the film in which a grandmother was telling a nanny in Tagalog: “Bakit pinapalaki ninyong Bisaya ang apo ko?” The mother butted in: “Speak to the kid in Tagalog. Para Pinoy.”
Apparently, coldking’s statement follows about the same line: “sabagay halos karamihan ng mga katulong sa pilipinas, mga Bisaya naman” (most maids in the Philippines are Bisayans). I doubt if that statement is founded on statistical reality.
Why can’t we tolerate other pinoy groups? Being a Bisayan or Tsinoy doesn’t make one less (or not) pinoy or whatever.
What we shouldn’t tolerate, regardless of ethnicity, is the cheating, lying, stealing of this govt under Gloria. As the saying goes (in obverse), “what’s not good for the goose is also not good for the gander.”
Guys, pagpasensiyahan na lang natin si coldking. Tutal, katsokaran naman natin siya dito. (Kabalo na ta sa mga ingana nga sinultihan, ayaw na dungagi pa aron walay gubot. Pasabta na lang siya nga sayop kana.)
Bencard on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:43 am
what can one say about a “communal action” led by one convicted plunderer and one fascistic (mendiola & luisita massacres) ex presidents; partisan rabble-rousers in priestly garbs; fat nuns “praying” with upraised clenched fists in bellicose stance; turncoats and disgruntled former partakers and beneficiaries of the “corruption” they are now hypocritically denouncing; out-of-power politicians pining for another opportunity to retrieve past glory; former influence-hawkers who have fallen out of grace but suddenly found instant-celebrity status; partisan businessmen who have axes to grind against the incumbent president; assorted malcontents and the ubiquitous red flag bearers, and ideologues from both sides of the political divide. yeah, that’s some kind of “diversity” all right.
but like the old song asks: is that all there is? 20,000, 50,000, 100,000, out of 80 plus million. that’s people power?
hundreds of helpless victims of landslides and flooding in bicol and samar are digging for their lost loved ones with their own bare hands while these self-righteous hate mongers are busy findings ways to depose a sitting president. and they mask their unchristian activities by calling them “inter-faith prayer rally”. right! what is happening to our country?
wonder how costly these unholy exercises are in terms of lost productivity, lost energy, expenses for transportation of everyone involved, security and maintenance of order, street-cleaning, traffic disruptions, absenteeism at work, and impact on business and commerce, as a whole. for the oligarchs and the “elites” among the agitators, it may not matter. but what about the ordinary masses, wage earners, jeepney and tricycle drivers, employees who survive from small paycheck to small paycheck, etc., etc.? it’s good for their soul, they are told, but what about their body?
and the 64 million-dollar question is: who will enjoy the spoils if these “leaders” succeed in deposing gma?
UP n student on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:05 am
Bogardo: 80,000 people will need about 320,000 square feet (3-sqft to 5 sqft per person, depending on how “friendly” to each other — “cheek-to-cheek” versus “cha-cha” dancing — the crowd is). A traffic-lane is about 9 feet wide. So 4 traffic lanes and 2 sidewalks (on both sides) will be 50 feet wide. 80,000 people will “need” about 6,400 feet by 50-feet-wide “space”. 6,400 feet is just a shade under 2-kilometers.
Errol on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:07 am
The road to an Ed Panlilio presidency is being paved..
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:27 am
I do not have read minds. alas kadora wrote:
Kasi nga as early as 6 may mga nagsi uwian na rin. isa ako dun sa mga umuwi bfore 6:30 because i live far. Nanay ako I still need to attend to my children after office.
Am`sure that it is not only she who wanted to be out of that place. As passionate as she is in commenting here, she can not spare more than a few hours for the anti-gMA advocacy.
so what do you think of those people who are working in makati? they make usi muna, stayed a little while then go home. they were never there to join these professional rallyists.
yong career eh mag rally and the moment, their anointed one becomes the president, they solicit juicy positions in the government.
Parang edsa 1.
investment lang yan.
UP n student on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:30 am
Just pull out a ruler and a calculator and you can compute to your imaginings and your satisfaction. And when the 80,000 bodies are “butt-cheek-to-butt-cheek” magka-AKBAYAN/KAMPI friendly, still need a 4-lane boulevard… a little under kilometer.
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:31 am
Ganoon, pagkasama ninyo sa anti-GMA, okay lang ang bigot pero pag pro-GMA, kapaos kayong pagalitan at tawaging mga pangalan.
Sheesh.
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:36 am
I saw the aerial view of the mass rally.
May description sa tagalog na hindi mahulugan ng karayom pag maraming tao. Iyon, kahit kalabaw ang ihuhulog mo, sasayaw pa ang kalabaw malaki pa ang espasyo. Ilang libo din kaya yong mga vendors. Isama ang 5,000 policemen, siguro nga may 10,000. peroang alam, ilang daan lang ang kasama ni erap tsuwariwap.
Yong green tshirt ng mga kampon na binay at para makita kaagad sa roll-call. hehehe
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:38 am
he just want to be in the right place at the right time when there is people power. baka makasingit pa rin. hohoho.
fanny barnham-smythe on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:41 am
cant make it dear,severly laid up in bed dear,head feels like a train wreck dear! with jeremy here on his “business trip” went out on the tiles LaST night ,started in Makati dear (your pinoy gin really packs a punch)bumped into Glor somewhere ,I think she was incognito! ended up at some twadry establishment in Ermita at 5 in the morning!! now if you can please keep the noise down and stop shouting ,your hurting my head dears!!
bogardo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:03 am
UP n student: I suppose you will be correct if the person in your 3 to 5 square feet/person computation is as big as fatass FG.
My estimate is the size of a lowly Juan Dela Cruz who can squeeze in (contented enough) and occupy quarter the size of what you had given.
Do your math kung taga-UP ka talaga.
santaclos on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:09 am
What an a–ho–e he made of himself this Favila! FG for Florante G Igbiten? Dapat dito kay Favila, IBITEN patiwarik para malaman niya na ang FG stands for First Gentleman, plain and simple, end of story.
santaclos on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:12 am
Sorry guys, ipost ko sana sa ellenville, pero kahapon pa, hacked iyong site niya.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:29 am
if you pack people shoulder to shoulder (4 per sq meter), you need to fill ayala from herrera to makati av and paseo from dela rosa to ibm to get 80,000 people
hawaiianguy on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:32 am
Ca T,
Ikaw naman. Pati hindi katsokaran, pinagtatanggol ko din, at pinagpapasensiyahan lagi. Pero ung ethnic prejudice, mahirap talaga ipagtanggol un, tulad ng pagsisinungaling, pagnanakaw at pag iimbot. Hindi ba?
UP n student on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:34 am
bogardo: My estimate does not have to match your estimate. You are as correct about your numbers as you desire to be.
Mandaragat on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:39 am
Enough with complains!
Let’s talk about alternatives. Meron ba?
torn on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:39 am
So far as I can tell, many of the commenters who argue for a higher crowd figure are basing their estimates on the TV and Youtube. Yet this was not a tightly packed crowd. You could move around easily enough, even quite near the stage.
Compare this to the crowds in front of the EDSA shrine in 2000/2001. Anyone who was there knows that once you got close to the shrine you were stuck as more people piled in behind you. A big crowd should give you a slight frisson of panic “how will I get out of here?â€â€”I doubt many felt that last night.
My football team in Scotland plays in a 16,000 capacity stadium. I have been there many times and I have a good sense of what 16,000 people look on the streets before and after the game and en masse in the stadium. When I go to a rally I try to imagine fitting the crowd into the stadium and, as I said above, yesterday’s crowd could have fitted in there comfortably. That’s just my opinion of course; we are just comparing guesstimates.
Still, it was bigger than other anti-GMA rallies I have observed (as mlq said) and may be a stage on the way to bigger things.
bogardo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:42 am
I would agree with your 4 person/sq meter.
If you come up with 20,000 sq meters to accommodate 80,000 people, and that this is just equivalent to 200m x 100m, then you can easily imagine that the crowd yesterday surpassed this area more than enough.
This is just equivalent to 16 Olympic sized pools.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:49 am
sidewalk-to-island of ayala is 10 meters, herrera to makati av is 700 meters, do the rest
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:56 am
my point is, to test the accuracy of an estimate, compare the actual density to 4 per sq m, and if filled up ayala up to herrera and makati av. if it didnt, it’s probably less than that. if it did, it’s more than that.
bogardo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:59 am
From Inquirer:
Director Geary Barias, chief of the National Capital Region Police Office, told the Inquirer that the corner of Ayala and Paseo de Roxas measured half a hectare, or 5,000 square meters.
So, given your 4 person to 1 sq meter figure. This would already be equal to 20,000 people. And, we know that the number of people surpassed this area quite easily. And that’s just counting one side of the intersection.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:08 am
and you didn’t check? the corner of ayala and paseo measures 30×30 = 900 sq meters
istambay_sakalye on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:12 am
pro gmas here are talking about the proper venue of removing gma- impeachment or other legal processes. the problem is gma and her minions have already bastardize and prostituted or blocked any attempt of following the rule of law. she has been rebuked by supreme court time and time again! majority of the congressmen men are under malacanang’s payroll. gonzalez is the sec. of dept. of injustice. ombudsman’s office head is an arroyo lapdog. the comelec has been bought. top brass of the military is not protecting the state’s interests but of gma and gma is not the state.
people are fed up and outraged by all the greed and corruption in the arroyo administration. the only venue left to vent that outrage is to go out to the streets and express them collectively. anger is just an understatement of how people feel! being angry and outraged is not only right but also that is how people should feel if his rights are violated by those same people who should be protecting them!
people who don’t see the obvious (or just refuse to see it for reasons i don’t want to speculate- may involve some pera?) are the __________ (fill in the blanks)!
bogardo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:16 am
Go ask the General. but 70 x 70 is not bad. The length is just almost 1-1/2 the length of a 50m pool, which I think you can easily fit there.
tmp on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:20 am
The Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras (which is on tonight!) gets more people than that and its more fun!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/politics-and-partying-on-sydneys-gayest-day/2008/02/29/1204226997048.html
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:25 am
i measured it in google earth, and i used to work at an office in manilabank building, so im familiar with the place. definitely 30×30.
james on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:58 am
cory shouting against corruption beside a convicted plunerer? makes me want to puke
and seeing dinky girl again..puke some more
so I’ll put it even at 50,000 gullible people in imperial manila…can the number give us truth? it seemed like truth is now relative..
but the truth that I know is the undisputable truth that armin’s Lozada is filthy as can be…more puke
james on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:04 am
cory shouting against corruption beside an convicted plunderer makes me want to puke
seeing dinky girl again …more puke
so I’ll put it close to 50,000 gullible people in imperial manila, will that give us the truth? seemed like truth is relative to some
the indisputable truth that I know is that armin’s hero lozada is fithy as he can be.. puke some more
Bencard on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:13 am
erap was complaining that he “understayed”. yeah, he did understay…in jail! pardoning the perp was the biggest mistake pgma could have done -that and appointing the “hyatt 10″ trojan horses in her cabinet.
Bencard on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:22 am
lozada and jdvenesia3 continue to bask in their infamy. with those kind of “heroes”, who needs villains?
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:30 am
Honestly, who are these leisure time bloggers kidding? These guys cannot do anything of consequence, they defend Gloria but are not even doing anything to help her – JUST MORE CHEAP WORDS (from obviously cheap people).
Have fun reading your own comments pro-GMAs, its all you’re good for anyway…PSYCHOLOGICAL QUADRIPLEGICS!
mang_kiko on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:34 am
bumaliktad na ata ang Mundo..Ang admininstration at manga opisyales ang suspetsado sa manga anomaliya, ngayon yon manga testigos pa ang dinadali. kung ganyan ang systema, di pa-ano masolbar and Corruption sa Bayan Natin?
Dapat sana dito, ang Gobyerno manguna magkompanya laban sa anomaliya, dito baligtad na naman tayo, Gobyerno ang kontra Bida. Sila ang nagtatago, dapat lantaran ang laro..
Bencard on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:35 am
abs-cbn news hardly has any other “news” than the anti-arroyo rally. moronic speeches by lozada, devenesia,erap & cory & some non-sequitors are covered to the hilt with gushing reports by korina, failon, etc. guests from the hate-gloria crowd dominate talk-shows, mouthing the same diatribes, dire predictions, and self-righteous prejudgment about gma’s “corruption”. fair and balance? my foot!
justice league on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:36 am
Hawaiianguy,
I’ve watched Sakal, Sakali, Saklolo a few days after it was started to be shown last December and that particular scene did not happen as it was described.
Sen. Pimentel must have been gravely misinformed.
And if you believe that ethnic prejudice is hard to defend; then I suggest that you don’t try.
Coldking seems very capable of defending himself by going very low. If he wants to accompany you is one thing but I don’t think you need to accompany him. You might hurt your back.
justice league on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:48 am
Bencard,
Camarines Sur is one of those affected by landslides.
Dato Arroyo is a congressman from Camarines Sur.
Where was Dato Arroyo yesterday?
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:57 am
justice league,
Don’t waste time with useless people, not even Gloria will have anything to do with these kind. They can’t do anything really except post empty words.
For those of us who are actively involved in business here in the Philippines, while some won’t have anything to do with rallies – are hoping that these events will trigger much needed revamps and reforms in our goevernment most especially in evening the playing field. Corruption can only exist if it is hidden, lexpose it and lets do something about it. We can actually achieve a lot more if we remove this obstacle as opposed to inspite of it.
If they don’t like Lozada et al, who cares? They can go with Chavit Singson, nobody will miss them at all as they are not contributing any good to the Philippine situation anyway – ZERO! Just a lot of hot air! Its sickening really…
justice league on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:01 am
Ramrod,
Thanks for your concern.
Bencard on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:07 am
jl, i assume he was in libmanan where he resides unless he was in batasan. sorry, can’t possibly have personal knowledge since i’m about 30,000 miles away.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:12 am
20 years ago (or so), we had this officer who made it his personal mission to capture Fr. Balweg, who at that time gained notoriority being with the NPAs – people that we were trained to hate and condemn as traitors to the country. We were surprised to hear one day that he was able to capture Fr. Balweg finally but released him, it was probably the end of his career… What did he learn after talking to Balweg? That as a priest serving the people he could not stand idle while rich people were using the government forces to grab their lands from them, terrorizing them, to the point of massacres…Truth has a strange way of showing itself – only to those who really listen, only to those who get out of their asses and actually talk to actual people, as opposed to watching news on tv in between favorite soap operas.
As all this proves is that we have COUCH POTATOES pretending to be real people.
Bencard on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:15 am
btw, jl, i suppose that self-anointed “corruption fighter” has any use at all just because he is some hot-shot “businessman”. hot air? i say his is a lot of foul air, aka utot!
hawaiianguy on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:17 am
Justice League,
Thanks. I’ve not watched the film myself, just got it from Pimentel who made the case, and suggested that the objectionable lines be taken out. But I’ll take your word against someone who may have secondary info.
I just read coldking’s apology in another thread, so for me that’s enough. I don’t know for BrianB, who has taken the initial offense.
justice league on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:21 am
Bencard,
Very well but I don’t think he was in Libmanan, but definitely he was in Malacanang by afternoon till night.
justice league on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:38 am
Bencard,
Your last reply is taken under advisement.
Hawaiianguy,
Ok.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:44 am
justice league, yesterday the palace summoned mayors and governors to the palace for a loyalty check. quite a few were told to fly to manila to do that. dato led a mass at the palace for what was announced was 100 congressmen and he spoke after the mass.
however the effect was spoiled because the president wasn’t at the palace as she was lurking in camp crame instead.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:45 am
Speaking of disasters and officials, the double whammy that struck the typhoon belt two years ago brings to mind an example.
Did people ever took stock of what’s happening, while Bicol and adjacent areas were devastated by two supertyphoons (Reming and Milenyo) in Sept-Nov 2006? While 700 lives reportedly perished, and the estimated damage was over $250 million, excluding revenue losses to businesses and lost opportunities?
Our congressmen and other officials were doing something else more important. Instead of attending to the poor flood victims and damaged infrastructures, Villafuerte, Lagman, Salceda and others were busily “railroading” the constitution to suit the needs of Gloria and their own. The Lower House focused on cha-cha, as if people’s lives wholly depended on it, forgetting those who badly needed help to keep their heads above water.
Pathetic!
inodoro ni emilie on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:48 am
bencard, who’s stopping you from stopping to watch? go subcribe to ptv4.
inodoro ni emilie on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:52 am
who cares about numbers?!? she only needs to prick her conscience.
barf.
barf.
barf.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:06 am
Manolo,
Prez holing (not hiding) up inside Crame is the tell you’re looking for.
I’m giving her a few months. Hopefully her cabinet will see the light as I do not feel she has eyes anymore.
Torn,
Yeah, a football fan should know crowd estimates. I’m sticking to my 2k (at 6:30 onward). A few people actually trickled in around 8pm, presumably just after having dinner.
The Equalizer on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:08 am
Gloria sought refuge,literally and figuratively,in the military camp during the height of the rally.It shows her state of mind.
justice league on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:10 am
Manolo,
Yeah. Watched part of it in the news. But I just can’t tell Dato’s exact whereabouts the whole day.
But it definitely seems he wasn’t in Bicol to personally oversee any rescue efforts.
Of course its really the local executives main domain along with help with the National Disaster Coordinating Council. (But last time I heard; the NDCC heads were in a meeting in Camp Crame also yesterday although the calamity in Bicol, Visayas, and Mindanao have been several days old)
But its still not wise for a congressman to appear to have other priorities other than their constituents in their constituents’ moment of great crisis.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:10 am
And wouldn’t it be just grand, not to mention JUST, if she wold be ousted by lesser numbers compared to the one that ousted Erap? You can spin it that way.
Another thought: couldn’t we hasten things up by someone declaring that we do not need the CBCP? Bishops can stay in their moral ivory tower. Won’t take much getting rid of this mad madame.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:17 am
brian yuour 2k boggles my mind. we must have been in alternate unverses at that time.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:26 am
You were stuck on your vantage point, correct? I was going around. At the center, the intersection, itself, there wasn’t more than 300 people and I did an unsystematic actual head count.
Anyway, the effect of a crowd is not in mathemathical numbers but more like its gestalt.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:28 am
Guys, smething’s wrong with Ellen Tordesillas’ blog. You cannot comment.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:37 am
Saw this from GMA News site: “De Castro: I’m always ready to assume presidency” clarifying the earlier abs-cbn report of “I’m ready to become president.”
mlq3 – if VP Noli indeed sent feelers to the enlightened side. He could (1) promise to lead only until 2010. (2) amend the Constitution. (3) Becomes a patriot. But how do we hold him to such promise?
Reminded me of favorite passage (the Prince):
“The cause is just; we have before us unexampled proofs of Divine favour. Everything has concurred to promote your greatness. What remains to be done must be done by you, for God will not do everything Himself.”
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:46 am
densely packed, the ayala-paseo intersection can contain less than 5000 people. so up to where is the crowd in ayala? did it reach herrera and makati av?
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:49 am
if we cant get this simple arithmetic right, i doubt if we’ll know the truth in this zte deal, even if it stares us in the face
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:51 am
This stupid practice of commandeering containers to blockade the palace everytime there are incidents like these is causing a shortage in containers leading to delayed shipments. I thought this administration’s priority is the economy? Can’t they use their rusting, overpriced APCs and tanks instead? Really?
mindanaoan,
Are you really from Mindanao? Asa didto? Pangutan-a bisag kinsa didto kung suportado ba nila si Gloria wala kay makit-an. Ngano makakuha sila ug 1M votes siguro mga dili ingunato to?
cvj on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:01 pm
The earth’s circumference is less than 25,000 miles, so if you’re ‘30,000 miles away’, that must mean you’re not on this planet. (But we already knew that.)
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:02 pm
jakcast, i can only think of two ways.
1. commit to providing a reform constituency that will support him and serve as a buffer on other pressure groups, provided he commits to a reform agenda. these have been percolating since 2005 and have pretty much been firmed up on broad points across various groups, anyway.
2. outside of that, committing to guarding the process every step of the way and raising hell if he starts engaging in monkey business.
what people overlook with regards to the vp is that he has two things the president lacks: a base of support among the people, a significant reservoir of good will; and an unquestionable electoral mandate that has survived legal scrutiny.
torn on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:06 pm
“erap was complaining that he “understayedâ€. yeah, he did understay…in jail!”
Ha, ha — nice one Bencard.
TheColdKing on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:22 pm
OH OKAY, IF IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER, I APOLOGIZE TO ALL BISAYANS FOR PUTTING YOU DOWN AND OUT FOR GENERALLY NOT BEING QUITE UP TO PAR WITH LUZON, IT’S NOT JUST YOUR FAULT, ALL FILIPINOES HAVE TO SHARE THE BLAME FOR THAT :-p
AND I REALLY DO NOT PERSONALLY WHICH REGION WHERE ANY OF MY ASCENDANTS CAME FROM ORIGINALLY, ALL I KNOW IS I AM METRO MANILA BORN AND BRED, GODS BLESS THE IMPERIAL CAPITAL!
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:23 pm
All this hulabaloo about “truth” is getting to be nonsense already. We have allowed everybody to say their peace to the public – to the people, and let them be the judge right? We have the people’s answer already, overwhelmingly, so what are these nay sayers going to do next, destroy the credibility of the people? The nerve! If you really are serious about your stand, will you put your money where your mouths are? Are you willing to bet on Gloria winning an honest election if we had one right now? Let the people speak and listen!
What needs to be done is to finally find leaders that the Filipino people will be responsible for, that true representation has been established, no “hello garci, 1million votes, etc. manipulations.” If these guys still don’t see what manipulation of “electoral returns” means its downright stupidity! If we speak of dagdag-bawas in ballots that is done by precinct level (everybody’s ballgame) but if its “election returns” it can only be done by people who have access to it – the COMELEC. How do you account for filled up election returns and no ballots? Magic? Of course, the culprits won’t sign documents that they did this, or sign affidavits, or sign vouchers after being paid for it. There is no paper trail but logic dictates that we see the clear picture even in the absence of so called legal evidence.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:25 pm
coldking,
No harm done. You can’t possibly put down the bisayas from down there.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:29 pm
And for MLQ3, kabayan, and others who went to Ayala yesterday, I’m proud of you. My heart was with all of you all the time I was having meetings in EDSA Shang, btw, I saw Prospero Pichay there.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:31 pm
ramrod : unsay 1M votes? sa 2004 elections? daug man si gloria diri zambosur. i cant say for the rest of mindanao, but as far as i can see, there’s not much of anti-gma moves here. there was even a pro=gloria rally yesterday in pagadian. btw, im not pro-gma but i dont like rallies
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 12:41 pm
mindanaoan,
Rallies are an expression of our sentiments, where our outrage can really be shown and being in one to actually experience is REAL. It is the hallmark of democracy, we should be grateful we can still have them as not all countries do. Also, it is constitutional, “Peaceful redress of grievances.” My parents are in Gen. Santos, I was born there but raised in Mactan, I am a red blooded Bisdak but I don’t believe in this Imperial Manila bullshit, no such thing.
carlos on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:00 pm
“carlos, i’ve been to the araneta colisseum plenty of times. it certainy would have been filled to the rafters.
but anyway, on sunday why don’t you go to the araneta colliseum where admu vs dlsu will play an exhibition match to raise funds for the whistleblower fund? with ust as cheerleaders.
please, go. and cheer for the president.
you should have gone to the welcome rotonda and saved us taxpayers 200 pesos.”
Manolo. What a silly childish reply. So unlike you, dude. You could have come up with something wittier than that. I don’t get the 200 peso joke.
But if it’s money lost. How much did we lose in productivity from that exercise in futility last night? Do everyone in Makati a favor and hold rallies in Quirino Grandstand the old fashioned way. The Makati venue is not only disruptive, it’s just cliche na.
AND why is it that if we aren’t on your side, IT MUST IMMEDIATELY mean we are pro Glo or loove her to death? Things aren’t BLACK and WHITE like that in real life, dude. You are smarter than that.
Don’t get pikon just because yesterdays numbers were sad, OK? You are bigger than that.
And on SUNDAY I WORK. And I think that all of you should do the same too. I’m sorry but yesterday’s crowd was same old same old and a wake up call that your issues DO NOT RESONATE with the people. It’s obvious that the anti glo crusade guys haven’t tapped fresh markets or developed a new audience so to speak.
And just like a TV show that has outlived it’s relevance, this attempts at People Power and grandstanding all needs cancellation and you guys need to find a new game plan. This old one isn’t working and you are alienating more people than appealing to them.
OR you could Just wait two fricking years and save your effort and energy. And I’m not saying this because I love Glo. I’m saying this because it’s the truth.
Sorry for speaking my mind. I apologize in advance because I know you guys hate hearing opposing opinions from your own in this echo chamber of a blog.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:07 pm
Forwarded from hKofw
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:12 pm
My comment is awaithing moderation again.
carlos,
Why can’t you see life as black or white, right or wrong? If you’ve compromised your life its not the fault of the people, and you’re not “our” target market. This movement needs people who can “act” on issues not daydream about impossibilities (like your use of “dude” etc., to mimic Americans, stop it, you’re Asian, don’t humiliate yourself). Unlike you, most of us can act on what we believe in…
Geo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:13 pm
ramrod said: “We have the people’s answer already, overwhelmingly…”
Apparently, the repeatedly clear answer from the general population is — We are not with you people in the Makati rallies and masses; this is not what we want…not like this.
Unfortunately, you seemingly confuse this message with a pro-GMA one.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:14 pm
carlos,
Life is black or white, right or wrong, not pink, fuchsia, and avocado like the way you see it.
cvj on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:15 pm
…says the elitist.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:17 pm
ramrod: rallies to express sentiment, by all means; rallies to try to oust a president, no.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:17 pm
geo,
As I said, put your money where your mouth is, lets put this to a vote! Are you willing to bet 200KPhp that Gloria will lose? I’m even willing to bet higher than that. You as well as other leisure time commentators apparently are out of touch. Really?
Neil on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:21 pm
If we look at photographs of the rally yesterday, the crowd was easily around 100 meters deep on both sides of Ayala Ave., and likewise along Paseo de Roxas.
That’s 300 meters. Multiply that by the width of the roads, which is 35 meters, and you get 10,500 square meters of people.
Normal density of crowds in similar situations is 3 persons per square meter. That means 32,000 people were in the rally yesterday.
Add a generous factor of 25% for kibitzers, uzis, the “curious”, etc, and you get around 40,000 people.
More than 40,000 is dumb.
cvj on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:22 pm
Sorry Ramrod, Geo…the above (at 1:15pm) was for my tokayo.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:24 pm
mindanaoan,
How would like it to be done? Like the Americans with Abraham Lincoln? or something close to home? Our capability of ousting even the highest position in the land without bloodshed is something to be celebrated not condemned. I wasn’t there too, but lets allow things to go their natural course and observe history in the making. Pastilan, naa pa mang ko’y igsoon diha nagpuyo karon sa Pagadian, tawgan na lang nako ug kumustahon.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:26 pm
cvj,
No harm done. I thought elitists are equated to bisayas nowadays.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:30 pm
Hi Manolo, I have a comment earlier about “Antisocial Personality Disorder†– modern term for Sociopath but its awaiting moderation. Ist interesting as it refers to “absence of conscience.”
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:42 pm
fuck you coldking. you rub me the wrong way even though you’re anti-gma.
i’ve never given much thought abt regional differences. i can get along with anyone. but seriously, wtf can we be proud of as luzonians? or even as you say, “metro manilans?”
this stupid business of segregating pinoys based on regional descent is counter-productive. there is only one delineating mark for me, and that is the whole archipelago. so whether they be bisaya, kapampangan, bikolano, moros, mindanaons, tsinoys – i treat them all the same: as filipinos!
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:43 pm
neil, deduct the island in the middle of ayala. and paseo towards makati av is narrower than towards greenbelt. but if it’s 100 m deep on all directions, i’d say between 26,000 (your 3 per sq.m) and 35,000 (4). so 32,000 is it, ok? more than twice the police estimate, and less than half of binay’s
Geo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:44 pm
ramrod,
I don’t actually know what you are talking about — betting money on GMA??? What, in a hypothetical new election or something? What does that have to do with reality?
Reality is that the rallies are not resonating with the general public. Again. And again. Even though the public is not pro-GMA.
How do you explain that? What does that tell you?
DJB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:46 pm
Abolishing EO 464 won’t abolish executive privilege. She doesn’t need EO464 anymore. She has Senate v. Ermita!
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:49 pm
neil and mindanaoan,
Why you guys are fixating yourselves to the person per square footage is so funny to me as it looks like penis envy. 20,000 ; 40,000 ; who cares? can you organize something like this? can you even gather 10 people to go with you on a cause you believe in? I doubt it really. by the sounds of it, you guys are so busy with yourselves you don’t have time to think of others. Really.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:53 pm
“Reality is that the rallies are not resonating with the general public. Again. And again. Even though the public is not pro-GMA.” – geo
How do you propose to find out? Specifically, MEasurably, Attainably, Relevantly and Time bound? Lets stop this speculating and approach it empirically!
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:54 pm
neil and minda,
Why you guys are fixating yourselves to the person per square footage is so funny to me as it looks like penis envy. 20,000 ; 40,000 ; who cares? can you organize something like this? can you even gather 10 people to go with you on a cause you believe in? I doubt it really. by the sounds of it, you guys are so busy with yourselves you don’t have time to think of others. Really.
jakcast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:54 pm
mlq3 – the context of my inquiry: if VP Noli declares that he will only lead until 2010, I believe the prospects of amending the Constitution will be better (no agenda of perpetuation), division of spoils could be moderated (to borrow the term from Neri), etc. My question again: how do we hold him to do it if the present rule book only says “Section 8. In case of death, permanent disability, removal from office, or resignation of the President, the Vice-President shall become the President to serve the unexpired term.”
isatambay_sakalye on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:55 pm
yeah let us all wait for 2010…fastforward…gma dictatorial president de facto…RP under martial law…
conrado de quiros- ” i told you so!”( in camp crame)…those who were against rallies to oust gma- “we should have gone to rallies then”(sic)…
gma and her minions- “hohohoho” all the way to the bank for more!….body count- “0″, they all disappeared and never to be found again! no bodies to count…media/press-”censored”! rule of law and constitution- toilet paper!
isatambay_sakalye on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:55 pm
…visayas and mindanao- under imperial manila still!
torn on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:58 pm
Carlos
Isn’t it a bit disingenuous of you to come across as a sort of a neutral party in all this? You have consistently supported the administration and dissed the anti-GMA side on your blog (often to good effect).
And as for an echo chamber, that’s a bit rich considering the approving mob that hangs around Walk this Way complaining about how protests disrupt the traffic and their trips to restaurants.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 1:58 pm
istambay,
Let them explain to the parents of Jonas Burgos and the reat of the “disappeared.”
Mike on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:01 pm
Whatever the estimates, it was clear that this rally was much bigger than the previous one. And it is equally clear that the admin is using more and more dirty tricks – stopping provincial contingents from reaching Manila to join the rally, barring media helicopters from taking aerial footage of the rally, etc. – to prevent this movement from reaching critical mass, clearly showing that it’s worried. The direction of the momentum is clear. All that’s needed is for it to be sustained.
So – when’s the next one?
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:03 pm
I promise to join the next one, starbucks is on me.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:04 pm
neil and minda,
Why you guys are fixating yourselves to the person per square footage is so funny to me. 20,000 ; 40,000 ; who cares? can you organize something like this? can you even gather 10 people to go with you on a cause you believe in? I doubt it really. by the sounds of it, you guys are so busy with yourselves you don’t have time to think of others. Really.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:06 pm
mike,
Sama tayo next time, I’ll bring the coffee you bring the HAMBORJER ha?
magdiwang on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:19 pm
Congratulations to the rally organizers!!! Thank God, it was peaceful and so organize that nobody was there an hour after the rally. It certainly represented the whole spectrum of Philippine society with politicians, the religious, cause oriented groups, business and the youths attending.
I was kind of surprised however by the turnout considering the mainstream media was suggesting it to be the mother of all demonstrations against our president. Let us be very generous on the numbers….say a 100,000. If somebody is looking forward to pressure GMA to resign in a show of hands, they definitely got extremely dissapointed with the attendance. There is a disconnect between the perceived outrage and the protest action.
i wonder if there is now disagreement among the disparate opposition on how to achieve the goal of ousting president GMA. Are the civil society groups selling out to the traditional politicians? I think this is counterproductive as a big segment of the population specially the middle class will be alienated and are wary of this group.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:30 pm
ramrod, we already have enough democratic space given our cultural traditions. revolutions are for despotic regimes. if we abuse this concept of people power, we
run the risk of having revolutions every year, and for every flimsy reason lunatics with imagination can concoct. and it’s not as if we dont have venues to redress our grievances. wait till 2010 then hale gma into the court of your choice. cases drag on for years, two years is not that long.
and what do we get if we oust gma? satisfied egos of rallyists, and? there’ll be peace and quiet? no more corruption?
Madonna on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:31 pm
jakcast, i can only think of two ways.
1. commit to providing a reform constituency that will support him and serve as a buffer on other pressure groups, provided he commits to a reform agenda. these have been percolating since 2005 and have pretty much been firmed up on broad points across various groups, anyway.
2. outside of that, committing to guarding the process every step of the way and raising hell if he starts engaging in monkey business.
– mlq3
Commit manolo? You sound like you are in a position to dictate terms should de Castro assume the Presidency?
I feel uneasy over the sound of this and the fact that politicians such as Lacson, Estrada and even the presence of Cory (for though she would not personally extract her pound of flesh, her coterie of businessmen, Catholic bishops and “liberals” would, should there be a power vacuum in case GMA voluntarily resigns; it’s only the nature of power that dictates this scenario) were given prominence in the rally Friday.
It is only proper that a Vice President is always ready to occupy the Presidency just in case the President resigns or becomes incapacitated. That’s why we elect one. But using Noli De Castro as one tactical move against the President is totally wrong because it is clearly moving over the extra-constitutional line.
I am personally against the word “ouster”. I support rallies as a way to send message that the President must resign, VOLUNTARILY. People Power III if it is to happen must never repeat the mistakes of Edsa Dos where GMA ended up being beholden to the groups that were behind her (it is clear that what the upper class-led civil society and the middle class and the military did in in 2001 was a coup to oust a duly constituted Estrada government).
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:31 pm
“There is a disconnect between the perceived outrage and the protest action.” – magdiwang
Not really, its human nature that there will be someone to speak for a group. Not all people speak out but nevertheless its going there.
Let everyone who’s anyone attend, this is not a test who is more zealous than who – lets all unite to solve the ills of the country one by one…
maginoo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:32 pm
Why do we have to be generous with the numbers? “Kung tinambang at kulang” Kulang! Kulang ang atensyon ng mamamayan. Iyan ang demokrasya. Huwag niyong ipilit kung ayaw!
balatucan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:34 pm
“The Ca t :
I saw the aerial view of the mass rally.
May description sa tagalog na hindi mahulugan ng karayom pag maraming tao. Iyon, kahit kalabaw ang ihuhulog mo, sasayaw pa ang kalabaw malaki pa ang espasyo. Ilang libo din kaya yong mga vendors. Isama ang 5,000 policemen, siguro nga may 10,000. peroang alam, ilang daan lang ang kasama ni erap tsuwariwap.
Yong green tshirt ng mga kampon na binay at para makita kaagad sa roll-call. hehehe”
Eh kahit pa isang milyon yan sasabihin mo pa ring sampu. Eh kung padamihan lang naman ang pinag uusapan natin, eh kumusta naman yung rally para sa “evil b***c woman sa rotunda?
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:35 pm
Madonna,
Re “ouster” lets use a simpler term, Gloria, YOU’RE FIRED!
Neil on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:36 pm
From a neutral point of view, the crowd yesterday was somewhat disturbing to the administration, but a little disappointing to the rally organizers.
Forty thousand is substantial, but is a dud compared to the expectations of the anti-Arroyo groups.
When is next time, a week from now? Can we expect 20,000 there? Then after that, 10,000? Then after…
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:36 pm
ramrod, it’s just a way of making sure we’re not suckered. we want the truth, dont we?
benign0 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:37 pm
One word to describe the 29 Feb rally:
Supot.
What’s the bukang bibig given this pathetic turnout? Nothing more than “When’s the ‘next’ one?”
The more appropriate question is this:
Where are the RESULTS?
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mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:40 pm
carlos, what pissed me off was that:
1. you simply won’t see the new faces who were there. the students from so many schools.
2. you *are* pro gloria.
3. how much has the country lost and is continuing to lose from the president’s doings?
4. and really, if you keep demanding acknowledgment of your views and respect for it then respect those who engaged themselves in appealing to the president to respond, somehow, to legitimate concerns and i’m not even referring to those, like me, who want her to go, now na. there were many others who simply want her to start moving in the direction of opening up reforms and not blocking them. your biggest complaint is you weren’t able to go to a dinner.
what’s her response?
http://businessmirror.com.ph/0229&012008/opinion01.html
i’ve done my best to stand by what i believe in but to engage others a productive dialogue. you know that. but don;t expect me to stand idly by as you snipe then have you grouse when i call you on your crap.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:42 pm
mindanaoan,
Put it this way, you have this maid, you don’t like her, she lies, steals, etc. but she has a contract that says you have to wait six months. You don’t wait, you just fire her right off, bakit ka pa magtitiis?
Gloria is a public servant right? Fire her right away! Don’t fall for the trap that without Gloria the country will go to the dogs – we are capable of managing the country inspite of her and better without her.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:44 pm
jakcast, the only way anyone’s ever figured out: to recognize all political leaders need to be kept on their toes not just during election time, but in between.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:46 pm
benigno,
For you “who cares?” You don’t even have a voice in the Philippines, do you vote? Do you send Usd? Not really. So quiet ka na lang and watch…you are of no consequence!
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:48 pm
ramrod, you can simply reset a pc; pull the plug off a mainframe and see what you get. a household is not a country.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:48 pm
Ramrod, yes Starbucks will be appreciated, pero pwede naman tayong mamigay nang tubig ah. Volunteer ako.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:49 pm
benigno,
At least offer a prayer man lang. Kahit anong contribution will be appreciated. Oh, your comments are your contributions for a better Philippines? Those are not worth anything to the people in Payatas…
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:54 pm
mindanaoan,
Is not the President a public servant?
Neil on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:55 pm
“Put it this way, you have this maid, you don’t like her, she lies, steals, etc. but she has a contract that says you have to wait six months. You don’t wait, you just fire her right off, bakit ka pa magtitiis?” – Ramrod
Ramrod,
Remember that you are not the head of the household, so you cannot fire the maid right away. You have to air your gripes to the HOH, so he can hear your side.
But the HOH has to hear what the other members of the household have to say about the maid.
Surprise! The others find the maid efficient and good in her job, even if she sometimes take a bite off your favorite cake.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:56 pm
NEWSFLASH!
Please visit “Ben’s Diner” in Wack2, 50% disccount on reputed magic hamborger!
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:59 pm
ramrod, analogies can only work to a point. in any case, she is a servant to 85 million filipinos. if you have 40 million who want her out, you still need the approval of the other 45 million.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:00 pm
madonna, my approach to politics is its about constituencies. they manifest themselves at election time and also in between. i do think that the question is if the president goes, noli, who has no party, who has popularity but no people situated in the corridors of power, will be pondering who can move forward his agenda, whatever that may be.
lakas is positioning itself, via fvr, to be the arbiter in a transition, to cushion the president’s fall and take the credit for boosting noli to the succession. that is why fvr alternates between bitchslapping the president then soothing her: never quite leaving the administration but shaking it up to keep kampi on its toes.
other groups against the president are confronted by the dilemma facing everyone else: with all the glaring acts of institution-breaking the president has done, is the answer to shake the government to its foundations? but then you risk permanently weakening those foundations.
the simplest solution and the constitutional one, is to recognize the president lacks two things noli has: popular support and an unquestionable mandate. armed with those two things, he represents perhaps the least painful restoration of the proper balance among our institutions -in government and the public as it relates to those in authority.
that being the case, if the vice-president steps up to the plate, everyone can offer their support. there is nothing wrong with asking him to commit to a reform agenda. whether such an agenda will harm or help him is his call; whether the groups who would support him in pursuit of that agenda will help or harm him is also his call. if he doesn’t, then the fight is not necessarily against him, but those who have set themselves against that agenda, and the battleground will be not just the elections in 2010 (i think the reform groups won’t really coalesce and matter, politically, until 2016) but elections thereafter. all within the established constitutional parameters unless a consensus emerges for a new constitution, which could be in place either in 2010 or soon after.
the question of what makes for a voluntary resignation is an interesting one. when nixon resigned, how voluntary was it? he knew he would be impeached and convicted. the role of public pressure via protests, what is it, in terms of institutions? when people rallied, marched, got gassed and set upon by dogs, were shot at, how voluntary, then, was the u.s. congress’ passing laws eliminating segregation?
every variation of people power -a strike, a rally, a march, a prayer gathering, various forms of civil disobedience- carries with it an implicit threat, except the ultimate threat of force of arms. this is because if you go down the road of using violence, it validates the ultimate response of governments, which is force. but when violence is renounced by the citizenry it deprives the authorities of everything but the most naked use of coercion, and coercion may triumph in the short term but always loses out in the long run.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:01 pm
neil,
Walanghiya ka, I had to ask people here what HOH means Head of Household from the Pinoy Big Brother series. The HOH in this case are the people collectively, where sovereignty resides right?
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:05 pm
mindanaoan,
Not all the population will participate in electoral activities, only a certain percentage. Some people don’t participate, or probably most – and then complain that life is this and that, mahal ang bigas, ulam, babae este.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:11 pm
mindanaoan,
Its only a CRITICAL FEW that actually constitute shakers and movers, or those that actually make things happen probably 20% of the population, the rest – they just follow the flow wherever it goes. If you are to make something happen – focus on that critical 20%…
TheColdKing on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:14 pm
THOSE WHO SAY THAT THIS WILL LEAD TO REVOLUTIONS EVERY YEAR ARE EITHER REALLY STUPID OR LYING, IT TOOK THE PEOPLE THIS LONG TO REACH SUCH A CRITICAL MASS, DO YOU THINK THAT IT IS THAT EASY TO UNITE FILIPINOS, OF ALL PEOPLE, IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Neil on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:16 pm
“neil,
Walanghiya ka, I had to ask people here what HOH means Head of Household from the Pinoy Big Brother series. The HOH in this case are the people collectively, where sovereignty resides right?†– Ramrod
Ramrod,
You should know that the people are not the HOH, but the household itself.
The HOH is the voice of reason and the implementer of law and order in the house. And his voice is the supreme authority in the house, not those of the spoiled brats.
Jon Limjap on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:16 pm
Manolo,
As for me, I was starting to feel I wanted to go while I was in the office, but when I heard about people cheering for Erap, my enthusiasm went pffft, and I just told myself: nevermind.
I still don’t think having her go now would benefit us that much.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:22 pm
ramrod, all the same, we need the consensus of those who participate. that is what escapes me. during the 1986 edsa, we didnt have classes. we were glued to the radio for days. during erap’s impeachment, we skipped office to watch ANC. today most people i know think it’s either a political show or a waste of time. only one is ‘gma-resign’. what’s really the country’s pulse?
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:24 pm
the critical few, like the people in manila?
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:30 pm
coldking, over ka na, ha. sa mga bisaya at chinese comments.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:31 pm
mindanaoan,
Critical few = people who give a damn and willing to do something about it. The “most people you know” are those who don’t give a damn or care enough to do anything at all – so useless, they’ll just follow the flow…at times complaining and complaining…my point is – do something, don’t be a fence sitter, take a stand, any stand…
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:31 pm
john limjap, i can sympathize.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:33 pm
Forget how many thousands, it struck fear on GMA. Just a moment ago, there was a loud procession of sirens along Sam Miguel Avenue. Firetrucks and other cars. It was a longish parade, but I had no way of telling who was it for, probably pro-GMA.
John Christian Canda on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:35 pm
Manolo, I am one with you and the Opposition in looking for the truth, but how can we find the truth if we only listen to the side of the accuser and not also to the side of the accused? We are no longer looking for the truth but for allies or enemies. The temptation for many of us Filipinos is to uncritically accept or reject all accusations against a President or Administration without discernment.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:37 pm
The accused is obstructing justice. Listen to what? To platitudes and BS-speak, yes even now, sadly, we listen. We listen because she is still president. We just feel discombobulated every time.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:40 pm
One of the very significant issues we have here, also pointed out by foreigners is our apparent disregard for ACCOUNTABILITY. GMA et al, seem to believe that they own the country, they can take, give away money, without accounting for it. They can take away lives without accounting for it. If its as simple as “you can’t prove anything, good luck finding evidence” you just get rid of it.
Its even a joke here, that the President and company get 10% of the National budget (personally in their pockets), which is really embarassing. I make it a point not to put down the president in front of foreigners as Gloria and I are both Filipinos, but among us, its open season…
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:45 pm
john canda: that’s a good point. and the point of those still appealing to the president to be reasonable.
there are two forums: the court of public opinion and the court of law. the president isn’t lacking in resources to promote her defense in both.
so far, we’ve seen the court of public opinion: and exhibits a to z are the government officials trying to push the government line, but unable to agree on what that line is, and who keep contradicting or changing their stories. when asked for evidence, theres eo 464, sc decision or not, and mc 108, and so forth. as for the other forums where public opinion could be marshaled to defend the president, say impeachment hearings, etc., well, those have been closed off by the self-innoculation strategy.
but let’s assume, as i do, that the public also knows legal forums matter, too, not to settle the president’s fitness for office, which is a political question, but in terms of charges. they are being filed all the time. but they aren’t moving. but no one has dismissed them or closed them off as a means to settle the question of evidence. in the court of law, the president won’t lack the finest defense money can buy, as is her right. but simply look at the glacial pace of the doj and ombudsman and see that they buy the president time to make hay while the sun shines.
nowhere: in media, in public, in the senate, has the president lacked for defenders and a chance to air her side.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:45 pm
John Christian Canda,
Ang haba. She’s already tried to say her peace in th “I’m sorry” but its was clear that she was not sincere, she is definitely not going to tell the truth, she’s going to fight it out, thick-faced, and stubbornly. Opting to hire image consultants instead…
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:48 pm
ramrod, it’s not for you to say who cares or who doesnt. my position is like voltaire’s. i may not agree with what you say but i will die to defend your right to say it. because it’s the ‘freedom’ system. we need to defend the system from those who try to subvert it. it’s fine that people denounce gma for corruption, it shows they care. but it’s not ok to see people try to remove her outside the process of impeachment. it will weaken the system.
benign0 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:49 pm
Why don’t we make a bet.
I’ll bet this won’t even warrant a story page on Time Magazine (ASia edition).
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ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:49 pm
john canda,
There are two government-owned TV channels airing Gloria’s side non-stop. Her supposed achievements, etc., and they are repeatedly showed, over and over again – just like a mantra…
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:55 pm
benigs got a point. That would be embarrassing, wouldn’t it? I imagine TIME Asia will pick it up as the revolution escalates. I believe next month it will be front page. TIME practices good journalism.
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 3:57 pm
mindanaoan,
She cannot be impeached, her minions will close ranks to protect her. Please update yourself on the latest preemptive strike. She has congress in her hands, how can you get the numbers? Look closely, its highly organized and highly financed. She has the governors, mayors, etc. eating at the palm of her hands via overpriced infrastructure projects nationwide. Haven’t you heard of the very expensive lampposts in Cebu, actually Mactan, well I actually went there last year and even touched one, obviously it was locally fabricated judging by the workmanship. And you know what happened to the guy who exposed it? Yes. In jail. There is only a facade of democracy here, really, and rallies are the only venues we have left for democratic expressions…
ramrod on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:08 pm
mindanaoan,
I’ll be honest with you, I was a Gloria supporter two years ago, because I just based my opinions on newspapers, cable tv, and banco sentral economic statistics. Its when you actually get involved with the local business sector, military, and NGOs that you see the dark side of the force. Take time to find the real score…
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:14 pm
and ousting her will fix all that? read monsod’s piece today, and evaluate things.
while ousting her opens a lot of dangerous possibilities, including lacson as president, or the return of estrada, there is only one benefit that we might get, satisfied egos.
rego on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:25 pm
People who attended the Ayala rally should be congratulated indeed. They stand to their conviction expressed their sentiments about et etc.
The same congratulations should be extended to the people who choose not to attend rally. They too expressed their choice or preferred way on how to go about this problem about corruption and public accountability.
Lets just respect each other choice. And continue examining our conviction as we go on.
I have this very good freind for abot 5 years now. He is a rabid anti Gloria and while I m not. Today He came froma rally in Manhatan while I came froma project not very far from teh rally site. It was not really a big rally. Even my freind is amenable to that. And we both understand that its really very difficult to gather peopel here for that kind of event. But I believe its good for him to be able expressed his conviction that way. I also feel good that I was able to make a stand by really declining his invitation for me to join him all the anti GMA rallies in the past. At the end of the day , we are just happy with to celbrate our choices witha coupl eof beers in Baryo whiel istening to our favorite bands.
Sna ganyan din lang kayo dyan sa Pinas. Togilan na yang bangayan. Pare pareho lang naman ang gusto natin na mappaayos ang Pinas eh. Nag kakatalo lang sa sa pamamaraan.
But of course I agree with Ca T, there are really people in this debate who have moree stake that just conviction. May kanya kanya kasing manok para pumalit kay Gloria eh. People power man or though election. Even my freind here admitted to me that their organization is receiving funds from a senator. And they expect to be rewarded pag naging presidente na si senator.
Pero yung mga wala naman stake other than just pure conviction. Mas makakabuti yata na kalma lang tayo.
Mike on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:32 pm
People, you have to remember: this is a game of “Matira ang matibay”. We know which direction the momentum is moving in. Pero kailangan matibay ang loob natin.
rego on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:32 pm
“One of the very significant issues we have here, also pointed out by foreigners is our apparent disregard for ACCOUNTABILITY”.
I dont think that foreignesr really undertstand the situation (understadable naman kasi foreigners nga sila) istnot really disregard for accountability. I believ its more on deciding how to go about the public accountability. Peoepl power ba or bring Gloria to courst or wait na lang na matapos ang term nya…
tmp on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:36 pm
Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is 30 years today. Expected crowd attendance 300,000 people both from Sydney and International visitors! It contributes more than 46 million dollars to the Sydney Economy! Now that’s what I call a protest March!
The military will be represented!
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23299396-662,00.html
There will be reverends and religious people too! yehey!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/clergy-sorry-for-rejection-over-sexuality/2008/02/23/1203467453418.html
And lots of Gorgeous boys and girls! So there! Why would I fly all the way to Phils to join your pathetic People Power rally?
maginoo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:39 pm
mlq3 – your piece on constituency politics is quite good. you forgot one big consituency though – the one that’s armed. don’t you think they will coerce some concessions from VP?
Madonna on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:44 pm
mlq3,
I am one with you that one’s of people power’s strengths is that it serves as a threat to the authorities should they use institutions for their selfish ends. And I am proud that our country, no matter what the rest of the world says what it is, has developed it as our our own means towards socio-political change.
But re: your views on constituencies, you got my goat there again especially that which concerns the issue of the VIce President stepping up in case GMA is out of the picture. Isn’t the fact that de Castro who was elected without much question on his legitimacy, has already a constituency to speak of in the first place?
So what’s the talk of constituency now? As I said it is implicit that a Vice PResident is always ready to assume the top position because that is the Constitutional mandate.
If you are arguing about the realpolitik scenario where Noli de Castro now stands, then I think that’s where there are points of contention. And the concerns that I pointed out was that there would be groups who would be unduly influential again to the detriment of our political system, which is based on representative democracy.
You say there is nothing wrong with letting him commit to a reform agenda. My issue is who are the people or groups who would spell out this “reform” agenda. Reform is always an attractive word, but sadly, we have yet to see one that has seeped through, enough to shake up for the better our dysfunctional socio-political system.
Secondly, it is jumping the gun too soon on the VP, and openly at that — even if realpolitick states that a political event is much as a product of deliberate and systematic planning in secret awaiting for the right time to implement it.
If and Noli de Castro step up to the Presidency then let us keep in line with the fact that since he was elected to the post, then he would have the gumption to do what it takes to lead (including assembling his own people). This is not only out of respect to the VP but largely out of respect to the people who successfully elected him into the office (sigh, we keep forgetting that we are in a democracy).
And to think, I am one of those who cringed at the likes of Noli de Castro becoming a Senator, then a VP. But my personal likes or dislikes are of not of consequence if we really stick to what is right.
Re: “voluntary” and “forced” — it depends who’s doing what. What we are sure of was that Erap did not “voluntarily” resign. He was forcibly ousted. Now, do we want the same thing? Sure, we who want GMA to step down, are both using persuasive and forcible tactics — but again, we have to make sure that we are not alienating those who are anti-GMA but who are not necessarily loud in their views and are still making up their minds. When we see certain political groups too eager to make their case, apart from the unaffiliated students, common workers and professionals it raises the suspicion that what we have is intra-elite power struggle and not the issue which is all about battling corruption and its roots.
Personally, I would have been glad if during the Friday rally, a student or an ordinary worker was allowed to speak and address the crowd instead of Cory or Erap (and even if I am a Cory fan). Of course Lozada as always, was right on target with his message.
Madonna on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:47 pm
“one’s of” — > one of
maginoo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 4:59 pm
Solita Monsod’s argument of keeping GMA until 2010: the MOB might be replaced by the MAD (mean, armed, and dangerous).
Mita on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:01 pm
just go? no way. that’s why the resign calls never sat well with me. if there was a crime, then it should be brought to court and if we have to wait till 2010 to do that, then so be it. this business of letting a president just go riding off into a Hawaiian sunset is BS. with marcos, we never had closure. at least with erap there was a conviction. there’s already a precedent. if we tell ourselves it cannot be done, it will not get done.
as for the numbers…who cares about the numbers. it was a sizeable crowd, kinda sent mixed messages (reform, resign, oust, fight for truth) but that’s what it was…
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:03 pm
maginoo, the political maneuverings will take that into consideration, of course, although their demands may not be so big. anti-insurgency is government policy, and i don’t think the hard-liners who want to extend that policy to include liquidations reflect the majority of officers’ opinions, anyway. nor would they be too interested in civilian jobs though current retired generals in lakas might want to stay on in their jobs… the real question is can the political pros head of a situation where administration inflexibility leaves both noli and the military no choice, but to go where the public goes? because i don’t think the afp is prepared to undertake a tiananmen scenario.
Mita on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:05 pm
maginoo, that’s true. the next step for us if we don’t get our act together is for an armed revolt. it might take time because those who attempted in the past didn’t get very far…medyo bumbling din yung efforts kasi mahina sa strategy.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:08 pm
“Solita Monsod’s argument of keeping GMA until 2010: the MOB might be replaced by the MAD (mean, armed, and dangerous).”
AFP is incapable of taking over. No support from the populace and insurgency may bubble. US may stop giving support. Ridiculous, even for a non-insider.
nash on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:09 pm
@benign-zero
“Why don’t we make a bet.
I’ll bet this won’t even warrant a story page on Time Magazine (ASia edition).”
Haha! This proves that you are just a cosmetic artist pre-occupied with keeping up appearances. Why don’t you organise a rally for yourself involving ten people who read your blog. good luck.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:14 pm
mlq,
what’s your take on Solita Monsod’s column today (March 1) in the inquirer?
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:15 pm
mita, who cares about the numbers? the numbers tell us in fact that between the rallyists and the police, the truth is somewhere in between
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:18 pm
madonna, i don’t think there are major differences in our views. but there’s a difference between a theoretical base of support and those actually front and center. the president for one doesn’t leave it to chance. she counts heads all the time and knows how to trump public opinion every time.
the vice-president has high ratings, so public good will. he has an office his by virtue of an election declared legitimate. he occupies an office that the president herself decided ought to be his, in case she drops dead as three of her predecessors did. there are those who don’t want him to succeed because they don’t believe in the constitution, in the system, etc, etc.
so there are constituencies who’d rather we go back to a more predictable constitutonal order just as there are those who are not exactly pleased by the president but are displeased by her critics and who don’t think any uncertainty arising from her leaving office is worth it.
i view it from the view that the president will inevitably drive even the moderates and her reluctant supporters to the other side, if not between now and 2010, then after 2010. i think it’s healthier for our country if she goes, sooner rather than later because many of the problems we face aren’t with the system but what she has done to it.
in the end, if you distrust whatever reform agendas are being proposed and those who propose them, the alternative is to demand to see those agendas, and determine if they are selfish or not; and also, to do your part to reassure the vice-president that his mandate should he assume office isn’t a theoretical one.
again: he has no party, he has no cadre of bureaucrats, his allies in the senate have ambitions of their own, etc. etc. i think he is something the president is not, which is, a good communicator and politics is communication. in that sense he will be very strong in restoring the sense of common purpose we look for from our leaders.
but actually, the real issue at hand now is that since many things are out of our hands (will the president start being conciliatory, or will she continue to stonewall?), the best thing to do is encourage the constitutionally-oriented consensus.
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:23 pm
Manolo, I’m cnvinced. I want Noli, at least until 2010.
mindanaoan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:23 pm
mlq3: the best thing to do is encourage the constitutionally-oriented consensus. amen, brother.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:24 pm
jason: my view is that it was honest and she finally stated where she stands: beside the president. all other considerations in her judgment pale in comparison to things heading in a more radical direction. my criticism is that she refuses to see how the president whom she asked for a truth commission has kept things going in a more radical direction, despite the disunity, bumbling, incompetence, etc. etc. of many of her critics, including the military rebels. despite all that, the president keeps adding gasoline to the fire. each time she does so, more people get fed up.
and to this, monsod’s argument is more of the same: let the president lead, she could still change but even if she doesn’t is still better than the people monsod hates, and notice monsod’s demand is what? gosh, maybe the president ought to consider sending her husband away.
we’ve been down that road before.
and meanwhile, neda drafts new regulations to further restrict information.
but again, it’s a piece that helps clarify where people stand and that’s a good thing.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:27 pm
Brian,
I agree with you. Noli is perhaps, less corrupt than GMA.
The Equalizer on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:40 pm
My family has never made money illegally, much less made money from government. My father has always steered clear of any action that might even cast doubt on my mother’s integrity.Luli Arroyo
Salients Points of The President’s Resignation Speech:
“I shall resign the Presidency effective at noon tomorrow. The Vice President will be sworn in as President at that hour in this office.”
“I shall continue to work for the great causes to which I have been dedicated throughout my years as a Senator, a Vice President, and President, the cause of peace not just for our country but among all nations, prosperity, justice, and opportunity for all of our people.”
“In all the decisions I have made in my public life, I have always tried to do what was best for the Nation. Throughout the long and difficult period of my political crisis, I have felt it was my duty to persevere, to make every possible effort to complete the term of office to which you elected me.”
“I would have preferred to carry through to the finish whatever the personal agony it would have involved, and my family unanimously urged me to do so. But the interest of the Nation must always come before any personal considerations.”
“I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body. But as President, I must put the interest of the Nation first. The country needs a full-time President and a full-time Congress, particularly at this time with problems we face at home and abroad.”
“I shall leave this office with regret at not completing my term, but with gratitude for the privilege of serving as your President for the past years. These years have been a momentous time in the history of our Nation and the world. They have been a time of achievement in which we can all be proud, achievements that represent the shared efforts of the Administration, the Congress, and the people.”Richard Nixon
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:45 pm
As i was writing here before your comment, erap must be a Gloria’s “pakawala” :p.
He is scaring the people.
He is in the same league with those red flag bearers. People are turned off by their presence. But of course they always bring with them their own PALA.(taga palakpak, may echo pa. hehehe). A handful of these paid mini-people power” cheering for them would convince them that they’re still hot.
maginoo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:47 pm
mlq3 – it is hoped that the advisers of the presumptive constitutional successor are triangulating/cross-checking their assumptions in their “realpolitik” strategy (as mentioned by Ms. Madonna) of being “always ready to become President.” Sometimes, it is not only a matter of an electoral mandate that has cleared legal scrutiny, especially if the populace know that votes are bought and sold in RP like a commodity. The VP’s popularity goes back to his DZMM days.
nash on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:53 pm
mabuti ng si noli maging president kaysa kay mar roxas who will unleash Korina as first lady…yikes!
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:54 pm
I’ve been hearing this bet for years. IF I had taken the bets for several thousand dollars I could have been rich.
hohoho.
You bet on this, Lozada will join the club of the whistleblowers who tried politics and never won even a local election. mwehehe
Jon Mariano on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 5:58 pm
Cat, one person says she needs to go home because she’s a mom and you generalize that “people” can’t stay in rallies? One person said that he didn’t go because people were applauding Erap and you say Erap scares people?
How can you even estimate home many people has that kind of sentiment?
Anyways, I agree with MLQ3 that Erap has been pardoned and legally speaking, he’s a free man and it’s not his fault that people are still rooting for him whatever their reason is for doing that.
In my eyes, the courts convicted him and he should therefore have stayed in jail for the remainder of his jail term. It’s Gloria’s fault that she pardoned Erap. She and the rest of us who has no love for Erap have to live with her decision and Erap’s actions.
Madonna on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:06 pm
i think it’s healthier for our country if she goes, sooner rather than later because many of the problems we face aren’t with the system but what she has done to it.
– mlq3
I agree that it healthier if she goes sooner, that’s why I don’t buy the view that we should wait for 2010 because I for one see that tolerating her wrongdoing since 2005 has put the country on a brink of flight and fight response, very much like those who has suffered abuse and trauma but who can’t muster the will and power to do what is right.
But I so very disagree wholeheartedly when you say that many problems that we face today are not with the system. I SO VERY DISAGREE. I am from the middle class manolo and you are part of the upper class and unlike you, I don’t just have a theoretical view of what ails our social system.
When an ordinary taxi driver or a salesgirl says that “pareho-pareho” lang naman sila kahit sinong iluklok mo sa Malacanang, I respect and wholeheartedly believe it because I know for a fact that it rings with the gospel truth when applied to the majority of our countrymen for over a hundred years. I talk to my friends who are in the States and Canada, and the motivating reason why they left the Philippines — it is the absence of EQUALITY in our country, and they are far from leftists or commies.
So I say that I agree with Neri when he said that GMA is evil, not because she consorts with Satan, but because she has not only the condoned our rotten socio-political system that has benefited elists and oligarchs but she profited mightily from it. She is also the epitome of evil because she uses the rotten system as partly her excuse (refer to Luli’s treatise on corruption).
From the time of Marcos, FVR, Cory the talk has been to destroy the evil of oligarchy and elitism, but no administration has ever has the balls (ok Marcos at the start did) and the will or peristence to confront them.
I just hope that those we who are seeking that GMA be accountable do not EVER forget that what we are seeking is justice and accountability for the long term, and that just doesn’t include her and her administration but the very system that bred her.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:17 pm
i’m convinced too, it was an honest piece. but i could not agree to her argument that economic gains should be given preference over the malignant corruption of this administration. Economic mana, which has not trickled down to the masses, over the stoppage of this unabated and in-your-face stealing done by the President’s croonies and probably with her blessings, I think, we should prefer the latter. yes, we could not eradicate corruption quickly; the very least, we could slow it down with the President’s removal while we repair the damage to our gov’t institutions.
Should we heed to Monsod’s advice, it could had been an error for us to ovethrow Marcos because anyway, there was no assurance Cory would not become corrupt.
The level of corruption of this administration, if left alone, might even surpass what Marcos had pillaged from us. Tnx MLQ.
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
Mark Twain
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:18 pm
madonna, you have to trust the people to work out how to fix the system. there was a growing trend in that direction. but all efforts to move towards that direction have been blocked.
i was being fuzzy though: by system i meant our constitutional system. theoretically it’s pretty good. given a chance, it could work and by this i mean foster a better constitutional system without the defects of the present one.
with the president out of the way the moves will accelerate though perhaps not move as fast as you want. the alternative though is along the lines your misgiving about pressure groups having reforms in mind you mistrust. it’s too risky to embark on a complete free-for-all.
the trend is there, the pressure is there, but also, those resisting have set up enclaves, like the chopping up of provinces which builds more easily defensible territories for the warlords. but the national pressure is towards change. recall i’ve pointed out the “old obediences” are vanishing and we’re accelerating towards a more egalitarian direction.
i’ve said, too, that we lack equality. the only question is how you pursue it. the easiest way is a year zero -but that’s theoretically speaking. the only way that succeeds is build a community of those who come from diverse backgrounds but trust each other more than they mistrust the various components of our society.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:29 pm
but corina is prettier and sexier than Noli’s wife. he he he. Yam yam yam!
carlos celdran on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:31 pm
You know what? You are right.
I totally diminished the seriousness of your pursuit. My bad. Totally insensitive of me not to realize how close this issue is to your heart.
The fact that I don’t care about this whole issue is really my own thing and I should have left it at that. It was totally improper of me to impose my point of view upon you and other readers of the blog.
My apologies. I’m serious. I’ll stop now.
Peace bro.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:34 pm
Dear Belinda:
Sen. Panfilo Lacson revealed last Thursday that your husband is a Malacañang appointee. What’s your response to this possible conflict of interest between your Jurassic, I mean, journalistic work (?) and your husband’s appointment?
What is your response to this possible scenario: Belinda criticizes the “Evil Bitchâ€. The “Evil Bitchâ€, who is the patron of Belinda’s husband, gets mad and sacks Belinda’s husband. Belinda’s husband loses his salary, bonuses, and perks. Ergo, Belinda keeps licking the shoes of the “Evil Bitchâ€. I hope you will shed light on this matter and won’t stonewall like your husband’s patron.
Sincerely yours,
Jason Born
P.S. If you have time, can you please write an article about your husband’s positions in government.
grd on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:35 pm
Official Countdown… DAY 2
BrianB on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:37 pm
“The fact that I don’t care about this whole issue is really my own thing and I should have left it at that. It was totally improper of me to impose my point of view upon you and other readers of the blog.”
A gentleman’s version of dissing. Creeps me up.
“the easiest way is a year zero”
Don’t even get us to talking pot, as in Pol Pot.
“But corina is prettier and sexier than Noli’s wife. he he he. Yam yam yam!”
Hm, reminds me of ABS-CBN’s penchant for busty anchor women. Worked for them.
Question:
What is theory behind these TGIF rallies?
nash on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:42 pm
@jason born
“but corina is prettier and sexier than Noli’s wife”
Yes, if you find someone caked in two-inch thick make-up pretty. I make it my vow to ensure that Mar and Korina split up if Mar decides to make a run for top banana.
maginoo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:44 pm
TGIF rallies? I would venture more people, no work the following day. Gimmick pagkatapos.
cvj on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:45 pm
I agree. I also don’t believe in a ‘year zero’.
mlq3 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:48 pm
you’re always welcome here, carlos. specially if its to exchange views.
maginoo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 6:54 pm
Madonna, the power of the old (landed) elite is quickly being repleced by the merchant (entrepreneur) thanks to the taipan/mini-taipans. Lets hope these new elites are much more civic-minded and give back to the lower classes like us.
cvj on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:04 pm
Maginoo, not quick enough. Also, the linkage between the landed oligarchy and the merchants is still too close. In the United States, the tensions between the industrialists and the landlords (aka the slaveowners) was resolved in favor of the former via Civil War. Over here, they’re all too closely linked for that.
We can make the replacement quicker by implementing land reform more aggressively. Also, even for the taipans (as well as the Ayalas), why are they concentrating on real estate? Let’s make real estate unprofitable for them so they can shift their capital to industrial activities where they actually can make money by making stuff as opposed to just renting property out.
Jon Limjap on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:05 pm
maginoo,
Why don’t you join them instead, so that you can exert influence and encourage them to do their part, or at least, you can do your part as a mini/taipan and be civic-minded yourself?
Jon Limjap on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:11 pm
cvj,
Way too simplistic of you to say “make real-estate unprofitable” to encourage manufacturing.
Real estate is the core of the capitalist economy. Consider that, in the most successful capitalist Southeast Asian economies (Singapore and Malaysia) as well as the northern Asian economies (HongKong, China, Taiwan, Japan) the success of their economies have been preceded and ushered in by intense real estate development. Killing the profitability of real-estate leads to the collapse of economies.
Look at the US subprime crisis. What triggered the crisis? At the end of the day it will boil down to real-estate’s unprofitability.
maginoo on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:19 pm
What’s the sarcasm for? The statement was made in the context of Ms. Madonna’s perceived and real inequalities in society.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:20 pm
yes, i have no doubt you can make Corina and Mar split up if you have your face caked in two-inch thick make-up and run for Mar’s banana.
nash on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:27 pm
Article Excerpt from this week’s Economist
“The Tigers that lost their roar”
- …after all this time the region’s five main economies-Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand- are still notable for the near-absence of companies that could truly be called world-class.
The region has 570m people and had a head start in the economic development over much of the rest of Asia. So why does it still have no global consumer brands of the stature of South Korea’s Samsung and LG?…….the region’s business scene, says Joe Studwell, remains dominated by old-fashioned, mediocre, sprawling conglomerates, run at the whims of ageing patriarchal owners. These firms’ core competence, such as it is, is exploiting their cosy connections with governing elites. Their profits come from rent-seeking: being handed generous state contracts and concessions, or using their sway with officialdom to keep potential competitors out…..as a result the region has no indigenous, large scale companies producing world class products and services….”
…The reason why SEA has been slower than other regions to produce world-class businesses are complex and open to debate. But they do seem to be linked to the perserverance of narrow elites and to the countries’ sluggishness in overcoming old rivalries and building an integrated regional market….”
The article also point out that we actually do very little trade with our ASEAN partners, instead doing 3 times as much trade with non-ASEAN members, this prevents the growth of local companies.
DISCUSS.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:27 pm
i believe in year-zero
Jon Limjap on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:28 pm
maginoo,
No sarcasm there. I myself am taking up the entrepreneurship challenge (with my wife) to see how far we could go. Our first “social” project is to help our daughter’s nanny to finish her college education, who had to quit school midway through her freshman year.
My point is, many times we detach ourselves from both taipans and politicos, when in fact many of them started out as ordinary people like us.
nash on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:30 pm
@jason,
are you implying mar has a fetish for thick white powder?
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:31 pm
ha ha ha.
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:51 pm
Cat,
Sabi mo “Lozada failed to convince the people of his hero image.” Bakit, nandoon ka ba?
Dakdak ka ng dakdak, wala ka naman doon sa rally, pagkatapos sasabihin di niya nakumbinsi. Paano mo alam? Eh di mo naman narinig ang lahat ng talumpati ng mga nagsasalita.
Palibhasa, pro-Gloria ka, nahihiya ka lang sabihin, pa-ekis ekis pa ang mga eksplanasyon mo!
Peke ka, duwag ka! Sabihin mo ng totoo! Umuwi ka rito sa Pinas, manood ka ng rally, saka kita paniniwalaan. In the meantime, shut up ka muna sa San Francisco ha?
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:54 pm
Cat,
Sabi mo: “YOng iba naman ang pilit. Just like the University of Makati staff and students. Ano kayang memo ang natanggap nila para sumali? Sana naman si Mayor Lim, hindi ginagawa yan sa PLM.”
Pro-Gloria ka talaga! Eh bakit di pansinin yung mga pro-gloria rallyista sa Welcome Rotunda. Yung ang talagang binayaran. Ni hindi alam kung anong pinag-rarallihan.
Sa susunod, wag kang puna ng puna ng mga anti-gloria. Umuwi ka muna rito mula sa San Francisco bago kumutsya ng mga taong nag-rarally. Beha!
The Equalizer on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 7:57 pm
What Should Gloria Do With A Problem Called “Mike Arroyo”?
“My father has always steered clear of any action that might even cast doubt on my mother’s integrity.”Luli Arroyo
The Results To-date on the EQ Poll on “What Gloria should do with a Problem called Mike Arroyo”?:
Divorce Him:20%
Send Him On Exile Again:(18%)
Tell Him To Buck Off From Deals ((20%)
Go on Exile Together With Him (75%)
Tuloy ang Ligaya (3%)
BASE:101 EQ Readers
Note:multiple answers allowed in poll)
mang_isko on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:00 pm
naku…..
tama na itong mga buladas ninyo.
wala ring mangyayari.
hintay na lang kayo sa 2010. naiisip ko tuloy na walang kapanaloan sa taon, kaya hanggat maaga kampanya na.
hehehe
o sa 2016 na lang kaya!
hahahaha!
Jon Limjap on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:04 pm
I am alarmed by the number of simple-Simons who sport the you’re-either-with-us-or-against-us attitude.
Para silang si George W. Bush. Badtrip.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:04 pm
Hi Cat:
I’m putting my bet now on the table. Lozada won’t run for any public office. Do you have a Nostradamus school there in San Francisco? Are you studying there? Can I please borrow your crystal ball. Ah, maybe, you’re a madam auring wanabe. tarot cards nalang. he he he
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:17 pm
I’ve been writing in this comment what i think will happen and they all happened.
btw, I am one those who see dead people. ngggiiii.
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:22 pm
Wow, bakit ang mga anti-GMA pikon. Sabi nang pag walang nangyari sa demos, walang pikunan eh.
YOng mga pro-Gloria rally ay talagang pro-Gloria sila.
Pero yong mga pumupunta sa mga anti-GMA rally dahil takot silang matanggal sa trabaho, iba yon. I know that, naging govenrment employee doon ako. The only difference is I was not intimidated by the memos. Kasi di ko bread and butter. As I have been saying, I do not eat bread and butter, pandesal lang saka matamis na bao.
May rally din dito sa SFO agaist GMA. Yong mga orgnizers will make you hold a placard tapos may kadokan. Ang piktyurs pinadadala sa media.
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:24 pm
Cat,
Sabi mo: “You bet on this, Lozada will join the club of the whistleblowers who tried politics and never won even a local election. mwehehe”
Ang galing mong magsalita. Palibhasa, hindi ka pa nakidnap or bantaan ng mga may makapangyarihan. Maging whistleblower ka muna diyan sa San Francisco bago ako makikinig sa yo.
Ang galing mong pontificate. Panay ang bira mo kay Lozada, ni hindi mo alam ang kanyang pinagdaanan. Huwad ka talaga! Pro-gloria ka, ayaw mo pang aminin. Bakit, nakakahiya bang aminin?
Kamusta ba ang San Francisco? Boring ba at wala kang magawa kungdi kutyain ang mga anti-gloria. Kamusta yung rally sa Welcome rotunda. Pinalakpakan mo ba? este nakutya mo na rin ba?
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:26 pm
Bakit walang nangyari? Kahit ang TFC, GMA at ANC proceeded with their regular programming. Hindi kagaya noong may mga malalaking rally na nakatutok ang TV networks sa happening.
PIKON TALO. Inom ka ng maramig tubig.
diego on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:29 pm
kayong mga blog addicts, puwede ba pag-aralan muna niyo yung i-popost ninyo. nauubos space ni manolo sa inyong mga walang kuwentang kumentaryo. yung iba nahahalata pagka-bading niyo.
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:36 pm
Jon Limjap,
Alam ko, masipag kang tao. Pero isa lang ang tanong ko sa yo, mayroon ka bang kamag-anak na naging biktima ng extrajudicial killings? Kung ikaw ay nasa katayuan ng mga biktima, sa tingin ko, hindi ka sasang-ayon na hanggang 2010 pa ang presidente.
At saka, ano ang problema kung paalisin siya ngayon. Nagbitaw na ng salita ang MBC, mas ikabubuti ang ekonomiya pag ang ating pamahalaan ay hindi kasangkot sa korapsyon. Ang problema sa mga tulad ninyo, dahil maganda kuno ang ekonomiya, papayag kayong malagi si GMA diyan. You would have allowed Hitler to stay on because the economy is doing great. Ganyan kayong kabulag!
nash on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:45 pm
@cat
“YOng mga pro-Gloria rally ay talagang pro-Gloria sila.
Pero yong mga pumupunta sa mga anti-GMA rally dahil takot silang matanggal sa trabaho, iba yon.”
You seem so sure about your factoids.
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:47 pm
No one disputes you dear that what you write did not come from what you think, otherwise, you are this year’s first Breakthrough in Science: THE FIRST ROBOT BLOGGER.
They all happened? Let’s see.
Future questions:
(1) Will GMA run for the presidential election after she promise not to run during Rizal’s Day?
(2) What will be the result of the 2004 presidential election between GMA vs FPJ?
(3) Since GMA is the incumbent president, will she use govt resources, including the fertilizer fund, for her bid.
(4) Will she talk to commissioner Garciano election day?
he he he he
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:48 pm
No one disputes you dear that what you write did not come from what you think, otherwise, you are this year’s first Breakthrough in Science: THE FIRST ROBOT BLOGGER.
They all happened? Let’s see.
Future questions:
(1) Will GMA run for the presidential election after she promise not to run during Rizal’s Day?
(2) What will be the result of the 2004 presidential election between GMA vs FPJ?
(3) Since GMA is the incumbent president, will she use govt resources, including the fertilizer fund, for her bid.
(4) Will she talk to commissioner Garciano on election day?
he he he he
nash on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 8:56 pm
@jason
“(1) Will GMA run for the presidential election after she promise not to run during Rizal’s Day?”
I was at Rizal Park when she said that. Pumalakpak pa nga kami sabay “Hay salamat, buti naman.” Yun pala she was just making etching. The bitch. (And I mean ‘bitch’ in a bad way and not the term of endearment I use for my dogs)
Jason Born on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:01 pm
that’s why her confidant call her “Evil Bitch” he he
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:14 pm
Cat,
Bakit kailangan may mangyari? Ikaw pala nakabaon sa EDSA 1. The fact na nasa Crame ang presidente mo na nagtatago imbis na sa bahay niya, the fact na ginawang no fly zone ang Ayala dahil takot ipa-alam ang makitang mga madla, the fact na sabi ng pulis kinse mil lang ang nagpunta, nagpapakita lang na takot ang pamahalaan ng gobyerno. E ano kung walang nangyari ngayon? Galit na ang mga tao! Bulag ka na, sinungaling ka pa, parang si presidente.
Pwede ba Cat, tumigil ka na sa pagkukunwari mo! Wala ka naman sa rally, dakdak ka pa rin ng dakdak. Para kang babaeng Golez! Magpahinga ka muna sa San Francisco ha? Meow meow…Beha!
Kabayan on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:48 pm
THE STORY is told about a burglar who broke into a house one night. Unknown to him, it was the house of FG. As fate would have it, the two met each other in the dark corridor and they both froze in their tracks: When the scared burglar recognized FG he ran away shouting, “Thief! Thief!”
(Above story modified from the joke of Fr. Jerry Orbos)
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 9:56 pm
Cat,
Sabi mo, “Pero yong mga pumupunta sa mga anti-GMA rally dahil takot silang matanggal sa trabaho, iba yon. I know that, naging govenrment employee doon ako.”
Namputsa, sinungaling ka na, bulag ka pa! Ang memo ng gobyerno ngayon, wag papuntahin ang mga tao sa anti GMA rally. Pwede bra, ayusin mo ang mga facts mo!
Eh ano ngayon kung naging government employee ka noon, pakialam ako! Kung mayroong government employee pupunta ngayon sa mga anti-GMA rally ngayon, lalong nagpapakitang hindi sila takot mag-attend ng rally dahil hindi sila bulag, o mga sinungaling na tulad mo.
Oy, beha! Pwede ba? Kung sinasabi mong hindi ka pro-Gloria, sasabihin ko rin sa yo na hindi ako pikon!
Huwad! Umuwi ka rito sa San Francisco at tigil mo yang mga armchair comments mula sa San Francisco! Beha!
Jon Limjap on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:02 pm
Haha, tama.
Gusto mo ng history? Ang tiyo ko, tibak. Muntik na siyang i-purge ng CPP noong 80s, pinatakas lang siya ng isang magsasakang kasapi sa kilusan na naawa sa kanya. Nung hinahanap yung tiyo kung iyon ng mga sundalo, ikinulong ng halos ilang araw ang nanay at lola ko sa Crame. Buti pinalaya sila nang buhay.
Nung paslit pa lang ako, sinalakay ng METROCOM yung compound namin kasi gusto agawin ni Marcos yung lupa nung PAF officer na nakatira sa katabing-bahay namin.
So siguro kelangan ako mismo ang dukutin at patayin ng militar para maintindihan ko yung sentimyento mo? O ipinagdarasal mo na iyon ngayon, alang-alang sa ika-liliwanag ng aking pananaw?
Mahabag nawa ang Panginoon sa aking kaluluwa.
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:04 pm
Cat,
Sabi mo: “Wow, bakit ang mga anti-GMA pikon. Sabi nang pag walang nangyari sa demos, walang pikunan eh.”
Hoy Beha! bakit ang mga pro-Gloria, ayaw aminin na sadlak sila sa pagmamahal kay presidente? Bakit ba meow meow, nakakahiya bang aminin?
Huwag ka nang magsinungaling! Siguro, it is a better vice to be pikon than to be a liar like you!
Umuwi ka muna mula sa San Francisco bago ka magpontificate! Dakdak ka ng dakdak! Beha!
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:09 pm
Jon Limjap,
Sa sinabi mong karanasan mong yan, lalo akong nagtataka sa iyong 2010 na paniniwala.
Mahabag talaga kayo sa kaluluwa ninyo. Sana, pag-isipin mo muna yung mga sinasabi niyo dahil sa mga nakararaming mga maralita, ang presidente na sobrang gahaman sa pera at korapsyon ay hindi dapat malagi na muli.
Hindi lang gahaman ang presidente, pati ang mga inaakalang mga mabubuting mga tao sa gobyerno tulad ni Manny Gaite at Avelino Razon ay napipilitang magsinungaling at magtakip para lamang sa kanilang presidente.
And by the way, kilala kong matalik si Bo Sanchez.
The Ca t on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 10:50 pm
Cat,
Sabi mo: “Wow, bakit ang mga anti-GMA pikon. Sabi nang pag walang nangyari sa demos, walang pikunan eh.â€
Hoy Beha! bakit ang mga pro-Gloria, ayaw aminin na sadlak sila sa pagmamahal kay presidente? Bakit ba meow meow, nakakahiya bang aminin?
Huwag ka nang magsinungaling! Siguro, it is a better vice to be pikon than to be a liar like you!
Umuwi ka muna mula sa San Francisco bago ka magpontificate! Dakdak ka ng dakdak! Beha!
Pikon,pikon, pikon. Mumog ka ng listerine, mawawala yn.
Bakit ako uuwi, papakainin mo ba ako. Exercise mo muna ang utak mo. Palagay ko masyadong nakokorta sa kapikunan. mwehehe.
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:10 pm
Bencard,
Ang kapal ng apog mo! Pa sulat sulat ka rito, hindi mo pa sinasagot si Manuel Buencamino. Tapos patutsya ka pang hinamon ni Joker, tameme ka pa rin.
Hoy, Abugagong pulpol! Sumagot ka sa tanong ni Manuel Buencamino! Yabang mo pang turuan si Mr. Buencamino, tameme ka nung nalaman mong diplomat siya!
Magaling ka lang dito sa comment thread! Pero isang kang malaking duwag!
riddler on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:12 pm
Cat,
Duwag! Duwag! Duwag! Dakdak ka ng dakdak! Wala ka naman sa rally! Pwede bra beha! tumigil ka na.
Hoy behang bingi! Aamin akong pikon ako kung aamin kang pro-Gloria kang beha ka!
At kapal muks mo! Bakit kita pakakainin, eh di kainin mong yung pusa mo! Beha!
jackast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:27 pm
From abs-cbn “Legarda not joining calls for GMA to resign”
mlq3 – GMA now have allies from the opposition for her to stay until 2010. These senators dreaming of becoming president (also including Villar, Lacson, Roxas) are showing their true agenda. They got scared of the item on VP being ready to assume the presidency. Let the maneuvers begin.
jackast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:32 pm
what irony! even if an impeachment charge reaches the Senate, these solons will vote aginst it. what circus our politicans lead us into.
jackast on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 11:46 pm
From the above, variation of the end game.
1. Pawns, Bishops rebel.
2. Military knights support Queen.
3. Political knights want status quo, afraid of the Pawn who would be King
4. Some Knights want to be King/Queen
5. Queen holds Castle for 28 more moons.
6. Pawns lose, again.
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:01 am
My point is, many times we detach ourselves from both taipans and politicos, when in fact many of them started out as ordinary people like us. — Jon Limjap
Yes, a few perhaps, but “many” with reference to the absolute number is not accurate. The fact is that most of the taipans and politicos did not start as “ordinary” people as most of them are 3rd or 4th generation wealthy. Just research on the families lording it over the House of REpresentatives or the wealthiest families in the Philippines. It’s so hypocritical when the likes of Manny Pangilinan say that he was not rich when he started out — how so when he was sent to Ateneo and then to Wharton for business school? Even John Gokongwei is not immune to spinning about “ordinary†roots – when in fact he was born wealthy.
My point is that the socio-political elite as a whole must look beyond charitable giving as a means to solve inequality but look at the viability of systematically implemented programs or policies (progressive taxation, land reform, agricultural productivity, more employment generation in high value-added sectors of the economy etc.).
Ground zero manolo as in purges ala Cambodia and China? Lol, thanks to that stupid book by Jose Maria Sison, I ended my flirtation with communism and anarchy when I was 18.
Inequality of power is a means for oligarchs to perpetuate their quasi-legal hold on the economy and society and without addressing inequality we will not get rid of rampant corruption.
Without getting rid of oligarchic power, neither would our economy get in full throttle because oligarchs stifle the workings of a free market economic system and we will not be able to drive up productivity.
Otherwise, we should jus be content with sending labor to other countries and wait manna from OFWS. Meanwhile, our country is being increasingly reduced to a land where the poor and powerful majority pine away in apathy in the case of increasingly rapacious oligarchs.
In another generation if the inequality of the social system is not addressed, our middle class will be totally wiped out.
There are the so-called enlightened elite such as the coteries of Cory and FVR, but most of them practice Western style liberalism and fail to see that freedom and rights tend to become abusive weapons of the few especially in our country’s case where oligarchs and elitists wield power. Although with the case of FVR, I admire him for having the ability during his presidency to balance relatively liberal economic policies with respect for public opinion, which is a core aspect of a working democracy. In 2010, I would vote for someone who is equally a liberal as much as he is a democrat. I think a Villar, not a Mar Roxas would suit my criteria.
magdiwang on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:03 am
jackast,
its one of many reasons why people which includes me dont want GMA unseated. i believe that if the impeachment goes to the senate, they will also junk it. the serial opposition are only for the media mileage and not really seeking the truth. they are the meanest people I know of as they play others people emotions.
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:07 am
“poor and powerful majority” — > poor and powerless majority
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:09 am
Jon, as far as the role of real estate in economic development is concerned, here’s how Hongkong did it:
In China, the government also owns all land.
In Singapore, it’s something similar with the government’s Housing Development Board (HDB) providing housing for 85% of all Singaporeans.
In these countries, there is hardly any place for landed oligarchs in the scheme of things.
The subprime crisis was a result on speculation on real-estate. What triggered the crisis was the realization these structured investment vehicles were actually a package of dodgy debts i.e. housing loans that were unlikely to be repaid.
http://www.cvjugo.blogspot.com/2008/01/ingenuity-of-market-primer-on-subprime.html
All along, it was a confidence game by confidence men, hardly in the true spirit of entrepreneurship which produces real products (and services) and more in the province of speculation on the change in prices of assets.
I doubt if this kind of asset speculation is what you want to promote as the basis of our economic development. We should instead be producing real things of value.
ramrod on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:10 am
“Otherwise, we should jus be content with sending labor to other countries and wait manna from OFWS. Meanwhile, our country is being increasingly reduced to a land where the poor and powerful majority pine away in apathy in the case of increasingly rapacious oligarchs.” – madonna
Can’t we we EXPORT OUR POLITICIANS also?
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:13 am
jackast,
Don’t confuse Senators’ stance for not supporting the resignation of GMA with not voting to impeach her. You are jumping to conclusions.
I am for the resignation of GMA but I rather like it that Villar and Legarda do not state that they are for the resignation of the President. Senators in case they they sit as judges in an impeachment court need to publicly state their impartiality.
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:16 am
Jackast, the political maneuvers of the Senators is all the more reason for People Power. That’s how the people stay relevant.
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:18 am
Can’t we we EXPORT OUR POLITICIANS also? — ramrod
Hehe, sana nga. E sa tingin ko sa first stage QC (quality control) pa lang, reject na sila. As I wrote before, our pre-schoolers work harder than these bozos and clowns.
ramrod on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:20 am
More often than not I tend to be tactless when addressing opposing views, like the pro-Glorias but really I do not mean disrespect. In fact those who defend their stand whether for or against Gloria et al should deserve to be respected and heard as these people dare to make a stand and passionately at that.
I have never liked neutrality on vital issues, or worst fence sitting, for me, it smacks of indecisiveness which is always mark of mediocrity. I admire people who because of a burning passion in their hearts will fight to the last drop, as Filipinos do, and usually this is where we see ordinary people achieve extraordinary things…
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:22 am
Nash, as far as Studwell’s thesis is concerned, Singapore has produced a world class company in Singapore Airlines. It says a lot that it’s government owned.
carlos celdran on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:28 am
Thanks Manolo. I’ll move on. Peace to you too cvj.
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:32 am
Peace tokayo.
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:33 am
Madonna, you have so much faith in these politicans. With their “investigation in aid of legislation?” they have brought this country to the brink of chaos again. The evil and greed are so much. No, but its ok you can stay until 2010 because VP Noli might take over and he controls the government machinery to get reelected. Can’t you see what they have done?
UP n student on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:34 am
ZTE is also making its presence known all over the world. ZTE Corporation’s full range of network products cover wireless, data, optical transport, switching, video conferencing, power supply, monitoring, etc. ZTE also provides solutions in narrowband, broadband, wired and wireless products, including a ZTE branded line of mobile handsets. ZTE operates in mainland China, Bangladesh, Hong Kong , the Philippines, Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Brazil, Romania, Pakistan, Nepal, Iran, India, Libya, Benin, Ghana, Nigeria, Zambia, Tanzania, Angola, U.S., UK, Algeria, Venezuela, Tunisia, Russia, Cuba, Argentina, Chile, Australia, Canada and Sri Lanka. Its financial report is audited by Ernst and Young.
ZTE is expanding overseas. A PSTN project in Bangladesh was its first overseas project. ZTE undertook ADSL broadband access projects at 16 venues and press centers for the Olympic Games in Athens 2004. ZTE was awarded a contract from Viet Nam Railways valued at VND1 trillion (62.5 million USD) to upgrade and modernize the railway’s signal and telecommunications systems. The multi-million dollar project, with planning started in 2001, includes upgrades on three lines out of Hanoi as well as several junctions within and around Hanoi. ZTE made headway in the international telecom market in 2006 and took 40% new global orders for CDMA networks [2] and topped the world CDMA equipment market in 2006 by number of shipments. ZTE is installing its ZTE Class 5 soft switch system in Global e Networks’ London Docklands telecoms hub for IP-based communications between the UK and European markets.
On March 13, 2007, Reuters reported that ZTE had received the go-ahead to sell equipment based on 3G in China from the Chinese Ministry of Information Industry [5].
ZTE manufacture several models of 3G mobile phone which are rebranded by Telstra for use on their NextG network. Spanish telecom company Telefónica España will jointly manufacture and distribute 3G mobile handsets with ZTE. Telus of Canada is currently offering the ZTE D90 cellphone with the innovative FastapTM keypad.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:37 am
i agree that there were some opportunistic individuals in the makati rally, but it doesn’t discount the fact that gma has to go for the grevious evil she and her minions committed against the filipinos. the fact that the majority of those people in the rally really had the national interest in their mids and hearts and are outraged!
ms. monsod’s argument of having a military authoritarian government post edsa IV is just a scare tactic and can be easily refuted by the fact that edsa I & II were military backed and non of them led to such military junta government. let us give some credit to most of our brothers in military. not all of them are robots and most of them are decent human beings. the likes of esperon, razon, palparan doesn’t represent the entire military. trillanes, querubin, gundani et al proves that their are still good people in the military.
and if history proves me right, bonifacio (not even rizal initially) and the rest of our true heroes did not have the support of the entire filipino race when they started the revolution against the spaniards. and also let it be known that bonifacio did not die in the hands of the spaniards but in the hands of caviteneo(sad fact but true). but in the end we won our revolution did win. led by the few! we had our first repubic nonetheless under a caviteneo.
people who are against rallies and getting rid of gma because of being scared of who might take over will be worse. this is not a perfect world. our leaders and people in the government owe their allegiance to the common filipino people who pay their taxes. they work for us not the ohter way around. so we can FIRE them anytime we want! it’s the economy stupid!
i think there is no argument here that gma and her minions stole the election last 2004 and are atealing money from the national treasury. and her military are committing extra-judicial killings. otherwise those who stil doubt those facts are either bind, deaf or just too stupid to accept the fact!
restraint is good only up to a point. and i think we are past that point a long time ago when gma’s lapdogs in congress time and time again blocked the impeachment from proceeding because they have the numbers by their own admission. not because it was the right thing to do. and they were handsomely rewarded. too bad for jdv his outlived his usefulness to gma. e.o 464, to keep a tight lid to prevent her cabinet officials and the likes of gudani to tell the truth. here we have a userper in malacanang who is doing everything to prevent the truth from coming out. some of us still wants to give her the benefit of the doubt. now that is stupidity! i know patience is virtue but even Christ got angry when the traders turned the temple into a market, becasue the temple is the house of His Father! that is what gma is doing to our country. turning it into market where the whole country is for sale and she her croniies are making tons and tons of money while the tao are getting poorer and poorer and lef to pay for it. so ponder on this all of you who advocate 2010, see and wait and pro-gmas. have pity on the suffering filipino masses! cause patience has it’s limts too! and we are out of it!
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:38 am
ramrod : sometimes, people decide to be neutral. it’s not a sign of mediocrity. appreciate opinions on their own merit, dont harbor prejudices
frombelow on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:40 am
MLQ3
the movement against corruption has all the potentials of becoming a mass movement which could at least make a dent in advancing the political maturoty of the people.
Wittingly or unwittingly, the bishops have marginalized themselves as well as the politicians.
my belief is that we can transform this movement for a positive change.
the mood is very evident. CHANGE. Don’t let our movement hijacked by the politicians (CBCP), the military (Esperon, Honasan, Triallanes, Lim), the politicians (Noli, Legarda, Villar, Roxas, Lacson, Nograles, Recto,Ramos, Dew Venecia).
Let us make this movementa against corruption truly peoples movement. Only then we can be assure that after this uncertainty, a truly enlightened society will come out.
It does not matter if Noli or any other politician will lead. My point is that’s the politician’s problem.
WAG SILaNG SASAKAY SA ATIN. Very disappointing indeed.
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:40 am
And please, let us not over-analyze the obvious.
frombelow on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:41 am
Don’t let our movement hijacked by the religious(CBCP
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:51 am
Mga kapatid,
Pwede bra, wag na kayong maniwala kay Solita Monsod? Isang huwad na kolumnista yan. At least si Bel Cunanan, alam nating pro-GMA o si Prof. Randy David, anti-GMA. Pero itong si Winnie Monsod, balimbing yan! Kunyari pang rule of law, pero silang mag-asawa, ayaw paalisin si GMA kasi feeling nila, may contact pa rin sila sa kanya at nakikinig pa si GMA sa mag-asawang traidor na yan.
Maniwala kayo sa akin. Basahan ninyo si Winnie Monsod at ang mga kolum niyan. Kunwari patira laban sa presidente pero panay ang praise niya sa ekonomiya. Pero ang hindi sinasabi ni Winnie Monsod, ang bumubuhay sa ekonomiya ay hindi ang mga policies ni GMA kundi ang mga OCW. Kung wala ang OCW dollars, lublob na tayo sa kahirapan.
Gayunpaman, bulag pa rin yang si Winnie Monsod. Trojan Horse yan. Magaling mamangka niyan sa dalawang ilog. At saka, paboritong media personality yan ng Palasyo, kunyari panay ang tira sa gobyerno pero kampi yan kay GMA.
Basahin niyo ang mga nakaraang mga opinyon niyan, akala mo laban kay GMA pero sa kahuli huli, sasabihin niya di pwedeng patalsikin iyan.
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:53 am
@cvj
true. and impressive for a national carrier… but then again we don’t expect an airline company to be a beacon of ‘innovation’…unless of course Singapore Airline starts manufacturing its own planes…
we really need to trade with our ASEAN neighbours more…it will be beneficial to everyone.
magdiwang on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:54 am
Ramrod,
If you read closely on their opinions. I guess most of the so called pro-GMA are not really for GMA per se. Most still keep an open mind on all the things leveled against her. They probably have a strong sense of justice.
There are those who believes that its the rotten system which is to blame and not GMA. A system so dysfunctional that who ever leads it in one way or another will be corrupted to survive.
Others believe there is no sound alternative to her. They keep a wary eye on anybody seeking power.
A big number of them also thinks rocking the boat at this time does not bode well for our economy. The middle class and the very rich have never it so good since FDR want the status quo to remain.
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 12:59 am
Holy Fr. Suarez and St. Judiel Nieva!
Burlesque King Nograles and ‘leader’ used in the same sentence. Surely, an oxymoron….
“Nograles said he and Puno tackled the political situation as two former Philippine presidents renewed calls for Arroyo to resign and civil society groups organized protests in the wake of the ZTE-NBN corruption controversy.
“We both jointly discussed the political situation and both jointly expressed concern about it as it affects our role as Filipino leaders today,” Nograles said in a text message to the Philippine Daily Inquirer.”
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:06 am
jackast,
Me, trust the politicans? Now, you are being funny here. Of course, politicians grandstand. Let them grandstand, but let the people be on the lookout always for what is real and true.
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:15 am
“Fire her”? clueless, dumb and simplistic statement. informed adults know there is a process for ousting a president.
“the accused is obstructing justice”. brianb.
defending oneself is not obstruction of justice. not proving one’s innocence is not obstruction.
“there are two forums. the court of public opinion and the court of law”. mlq3.
if there ever is a “court of public opinion”, its verdict can only be enforced in an election. it deals with popular “truth”, not legal truth. on the other hand, a verdict of a court of law is enforceable at all times. truth is ascertained according to established rules of a civilized society on truth-seeking.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:15 am
Magdiwang,
I find your justifications for the pro-GMA believers morally bankrupt!
She has pilfered, stolen and plundered the national treasury. She has used the Chinese ODA loans as a source of further corruption. And here we are, we continue to blame the corruption on the dysfunctional system.
If the system is truly dysfunctional, then whoever the alternative is should not really matter, deba? If the system is truly the problem, then that means we have to socially and legally re-engineer the political system and economy like what Lee Kuan Yew did in Singapore.
Unfortunately, it is not only the system that is dysfunctional. The president herself is leading the destruction of the democratic institutions and now filching all the money she can steal from the Chinese.
For your information, it is not true that the president suspended the 11 Chinese ODA loans. That was merely a face saving measure. The truth is the Chinese government got so fed up with all the negative publicity starting with the Northrail, then the ZTE, now the Spratleys, and the Southrail that the Chinese govt decided to screw it all and cancelled unilaterally the 11 Chinese ODA deals.
Did you guys ever wonder why all the suspended loans were Chinese? Its because they were all cancelled by our Chinese neighbors. How did i know? What if i told you that like Manuel Buencamino, i am also a diplomat?
Just a food for thought.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:17 am
Bencard,
Sagutin mo muna si Manuel Buencamino. Huwag kang sulat ng sulat dito.
Hanggat di mo sinasagot si Manuel Buencamino, tatawaging kitang isang malaking duwag!
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:24 am
Nash, i think Singapore Airlines has had its share of innovations within its own industry. It was one of the first to introduce personal screens in economy class. Recently, it has the distinction of being the first carrier to commercially fly the A380. It’s just not into building planes and for good reason.
The point i was trying to make in saying that Sinagpore Airlines is government-owned is to highlight that the “generous state contracts and concessions, or using their sway with officialdom to keep potential competitors out” that the Economist’s article blames for the lack of “indigenous, large scale companies producing world class products and services….” is capable of producing world class companies.
The problem with the Economist is that they are blinded by their Neo-liberal ideology to see this. If China, India (and earlier South Korea) followed their prescriptions, then these countries would also lack world class companies. Hvrds pointed out in the previous thread that the economically successful countries ‘coddle’ their oligarchs. We have to do some of that as well.
It is not trade alone that generates innovation and growth within local companies, but rather a combination of trade, protection, incentives and disincentives which is part of the government’s industrial policy. In fact, trade can sometimes kill local companies.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:25 am
i like mlq3’s blog because a lot of posts are intelligent discussions, and you can find occasional gems here and there on both sides of the issues. sometimes however, like the ranting against monsod above, you find pure drivel. baseless, asinine, hateful, irritating drivel.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:28 am
Mindanaoan,
Really? Take a look at her column. It sounds so intelligent and so logical but you dont have a whit of idea what she tries to indoctrinate on the readers.
Irritating drivel? I suggest you read all her columns and you come back to me and tell me if what I said is utterly fallacious.
I have followed all her readings. I am not as blind as you are. I have stopped admiring monsod since I got to know her true colors.
Asinine? Think again!
Upelina on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:30 am
Wake Up People!!!
With all these power play by Gloria, it requires a lot of resources to do it. If we dont terminate their service now, we will be charged double because they can get away from it. Act now, Manolo’s is right if we lost confident and trust to government that should the end of it.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:36 am
Mindanaoan,
You said: “and ousting her will fix all that? read monsod’s piece today, and evaluate things. while ousting her opens a lot of dangerous possibilities, including lacson as president, or the return of estrada, there is only one benefit that we might get, satisfied egos.”
No wonder you got pissed! You dont have your own independent thought. You read monsod and you had an epiphany! My gulay!
If we were in the Third Reich with Hitler lording over all his domain and the economy was doing very well, you and Monsod would have turned a blind eye on all the human rights abuses and corruption in the government as long as we have a 7% growth.
Read her column! That is exactly what she is saying! A philippines without Gloria will lead us to destruction! That is the real drivel!
Ramon del Rosario said that the Philippine economy will survive without Gloria. Between Ramon del Rosario who is a heavily invested businessman in the country and a Monsod who has no business of her own to run, who will you believe?
magdiwang on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:41 am
I beg to disagree, What strong words you have there. Accusing anybody of wrongdoing is so convinient but without substantiating it is another matter. All accusations should pass some judicial scrutiny otherwise people wont buy it. The opposition should try another tact as this has proven to be ineffective. They will have to try harder to convince people like me of the culpability of the president. The senate with all its resourses and after months of scrutiny has so far not able to finish all the investigations they initiated with no definite conclusions…..Have they???? hello garci, fertilizer scam, megapacific. northrail, DM boulevard to name a few. All bombast with nothing to show for. I think we just have to sgree to diagree on this.
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:47 am
mlq3, these gargoyles, coldking, joker, and riddler sound one and the same entity that must have strayed from ellenville’s hell hole. i’m sure even your liberality has limits. kudos to you for putting up with these flotsams.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:50 am
can you read ’satisfied egos’ in her column? just because i mentioned her, i now dont have independent thought? still baseless drivel
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:52 am
From GMA website: “Church’s intelligence network confirms corruption serious”
What an unintelligent assessment. Too late the hero!
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:59 am
Mindanaoan,
You answer my last question: Who do you believe, Ramon del Rosario or Winnie Monsod?
Dont give me the Erap or the Lacson scare! Bhay, nabenta na na!
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:01 am
Bencard,
Duwag! Duwag! Duwag! Sagutin mo si Manuel Buencamino!
Abugagong Pulpol! Hanggat di mo sinasagot si Manuel Buencamino, wala kang karapatan magyabang dito. Hindi ako abogado pero hindi ako duwag na tulad mo!
Hinihintay ka ni Manuel Buencamino! What part of Manuel Buencamino’s challenge ang hindi mo gets, Attorney?
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:10 am
i just noticed. morag ako ra may ga tubag-tubag ani. ngano diay ni siya?
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:10 am
Magdiwang,
My goodness! How blind can you be? You are just like Golez, you want the rule of law but the rule of law here is selective!
You are asking for judicial scrutiny and you know very well those cases wont proceed beyond Ombudsman Merceditas Gutierrez.
The whole ZTE investigation in the Ombudsman is a farce. Merceditas asked Dennis Villa Ignacio to be part of the team but when Dennis Villa Ignacio wanted a free rein on the investigating panel and to prosecute the personalities where the evidence will lead, he was turned down.
Dont you people find it odd that the Ombudsman did not include Dennis Villa Ignacio, the lawyer who successfully prosecuted Erap in the plunder case? How did I know? What if I told you I was a lawyer?
Come on Magdiwang, no big fish friendly to the Arroyo government has ever been prosecuted in this administration. Dont expect all the cases to pass judicial muster. It wont go through the courts because our charter requires cases to pass through the Ombudsman. Unfortunately, our Ombudsman integrity is beneath reproach!
So dont talk to me about rule of law or judicial scrutiny. It exists in this country on a very selectice basis.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:12 am
Mindanaoan,
My question begs an answer: Who do you believe?
magdiwang on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:21 am
Riddler,
Who said that life is fair? Even in advance democracies, trials and litigations are not perfect, but they still proceed and go through the motions because that’s how civilized people do it. The alternative is much worse, you want us to subscribe to vigilante justice. Do you want to be in a position in not able to defend yourself?
grd on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:22 am
ang lagay eh papayag silang mag-ala gma si noli eh malapit na ang 2010 specially legarda who lost to noli.
mlq3 on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:23 am
bencard, re “on the other hand, a verdict of a court of law is enforceable at all times. truth is ascertained according to established rules of a civilized society on truth-seeking.” as for the first, not when the court is in disrepute or the enforcing authorities are held in such disrepute as to inspire resistance. i have time and again pointed out that indeed, people would generally prefer the established rules for truth-seeking to prevail, what happens, though, when the authorities themselves bend or twist or simply don’t apply the rules? this is the situation we’re at. recall the 1st and 2nd impeachments with their miserable rules, which the majority hoodwinked the minority to also accept, because the majority knew it had the numbers while the minority assumed it could incubate a people power moment. the result was both sides ended up in disrepute, and the process meant to be enabled by the rules, placed in disrepute as well. and yet we know the majority prefers those twisted rules (in contrast to the quirino era impeachment rules) because they place at the fore questions of form and substance without tackling the evidence in a public hearing. the result is that no complaint can ever get beyond the initial hurdles which are impossible to surmount -because what would give them teeth, the evidence, is left for last and not first.
the same applies for an ombudsman more interested in the anti song writing competition than the other pending cases; an executive that pushed the envelope with regards to executive privilege and which continues to assert provisions struck down by the sc; and which is working on means to accomplish the same thing, under a different name (hence the ongoing haggling with the bishops who, beyond eo 464 being revoked, have simply asked the president not to invoke the privilege in the higher national interest.
and so you have students rallying precisely for the things they want -the evidence- but which has been supressed by an administration then challenging everyone else with the taunt, “where is your evidence?”
the evidence is there, in the files of neda, in the files of the executive office, etc. under presidentially-sanctioned wraps.
this is why lozada says we have a legal system but not a justice system.
\
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:24 am
may ibang sumagot.
your question does not beg an answer. it’s begging the question!
mlq3 on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:27 am
it’s scream therapy day, i see. but please all bear in mind there are many readers scared to death of making comments here, because they’re afraid they’ll be lynched. the more the manier sana.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:30 am
Mindanaoan,
My gulay! the question is simple to answer: Who do you believe, Ramon del Rosario, a heavily invested businessman, who claims that the Philippines will survive without Gloria or Winnie Monsod, an economist who has no ongoing business concern who claimed that the Philippines will suffer without Gloria?
Simpleng tanong, simpleng sagot. Kung ayaw mong sagutin, duwag ka!
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:33 am
mlq3 -could be Saturday night fever for many.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:33 am
Mlq3,
Dont worry! I reserved my comments only on certain people I and Manuel Buencamino find objectionable.
But I will leave the profanities to Mr. Buencamino.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:36 am
if it’s not obvious to you, the question is: why do i have to choose between them?
mlq3 on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:40 am
jackast, nod.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:40 am
Magdiwang,
You said: “Who said that life is fair? Even in advance democracies, trials and litigations are not perfect, but they still proceed and go through the motions because that’s how civilized people do it. The alternative is much worse, you want us to subscribe to vigilante justice. Do you want to be in a position in not able to defend yourself?”
You still dont get it, do you? I am not advocating for a perfect system. In the first place, we dont even have a fair system and thats the principle of what rule of law is. Let justice be done though the heavens fall! All legal system must be fair. If you do not have a fair legal system, then why are you asking that the cases to go though judicial scrutiny? Isnt that an inconsistent argument?
And you are so wrong! Western democracies do not go though the motion of administering justice. They have a working administration of justice.
Vigilante justice? Dont you know we have vigilante justice already? Lozada says Abalos et al are corrupt and Siraulo Gonzales of the Justice department instead wants to file cases against Lozada and not Abalos?
We are already under a vigilante justice system if you havent noticed, my dear laddie!
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:41 am
Mindanaoan,
Duwag!
Abe N. Margallo on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:42 am
According to his handlers, Noli de Castro will be ready “from Day 1†if he is suddenly shoved into the presidency.
That sounds similar and familiar. But it’s certainly not working for the one who concocted the catchphrase first. Ms. Hilary is trailing “Barry†because Americans as Filipinos are enamored today with “change,†and not with business-as-usual or trapo politics.
Noli should fire those dilettante ignoramuses.
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:42 am
@cvj
I agree with you but the point I wanted to make was that an Airline is not in the same category as, say Taiwan’s Integrated Circuit foundries, South Korea’s LCD innovators……that article obliquely touches the fact that ASEAN industries don’t generate or own their own IP…we do have the world class factories in the Philippines but we provide very little value added services.
We need to put money into incubation centres (such as that ASTI inside UP) and we need to develop home-grown technologies. Tulad nalang ng ZTE-Broadband ek-ek na yan. We can build that broadband network ourselves, sure we need to buy equipment from outside, but the design should have been passed on to DOST…
Having said that, SAL is truly amazing for a government owned company, well managed and separated from government appointees….unlike our Govt companies whose boards are full of mga talunan sa election pero binalatuhan na rin ni GMA ng mga position…(Take for example Mike Defensor, this man has jumped from one post to another and yet he is underqualified for all those posts…
Please extend my congratulations to SAL (baka sakaling bigyan ako frequent flyer points…)
cheers
PS. I don’t look at the neo-liberal ek-ek of the Economist. It’s only one source of info
diego on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:43 am
it seems that there are people out there debating with their own alter egos, and in the process getting lost in their own arguments.
stick with the issues, guys!
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:46 am
riddler,
hehe, tonsils mo. but your arguments have meat and substance nevertheless.
mindanaoan,
you don’t have to choose between them. just choose yourself and what is right for you. then hopefully the rest of the choices are easier
magdiwang on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:50 am
Riddler,
Of course I perfectly understand what you are alluding to. We should turn back the clock and install the “makapili” form of justice. I hope your neighbor wont finger you when that time comes accusing you for this and that with no way of defending yourself. Good Luck with you when that time comes.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:52 am
some people skipped logic 101. you dont answer questions ‘begging the question’
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:53 am
UP n, ZTE is rumored to be interested in buying Motorola, which is in trouble financially. That does not mean there are no corrupt executives at ZTE. Chinese corporations have never been interested in building good reputations.
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:57 am
Bencard, some flotsam carry the ashes of the beloved
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:59 am
Madonna,
O o nga, tonsils ko.
Dinadaan ko na lang sa bastusan kasi talagang bastusan na ang mga pro-GMA na sumusulat dito pero ayaw naman nilang aminin! Panay kasinungalingan na ang naririnig natin pero ayaw pa nilang tumigil.
Pero kung susuriin ninyo ang aking sinusulat, may mga laman yan at ang mga impormasyon na aking inihayag ay pawang katotohanan lang. Ang ayaw ko lang sa ibang mga tao ay kung sila ang tatanungin, umiiwas sila at ayaw sagutin ng tuwid. Yun ay isang uri ng kasinungalingan dahil ang bawat tao ay mayroong pananaw, tama man o mali.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:02 am
Magdiwang,
Thank you for your concern but I am perfectly capable of defending myself from my neighbor or from those who seek to do me ill.
I wish the same for you.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:05 am
Mindanaoan,
Yes, I skipped logic 101. Its not taught in Harvardian College but at least, my teachers taught me courage, integrity and honesty and to answer all questions even if the question is supposedly “begging the question” because in that way, we learn and profit from other people’s cowardice.
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:05 am
Nash (at 2:42am), i agree and thanks for the clarification. Like you, i also think the Economist article is correct in attributing the lack of industrialization of the Southeast Asian economies (including ours) to their respective big businesses who engage in rent-seeking. This type of analysis does make more sense than Benign0’s double standard, where he lets the Taipans off the hook while placing the burden of industrialization on the common folk.
grd on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:08 am
manolo, why not put a shoutbox here just like in pcij? that would be good for those who miss taking their pills (like i sometimes do
)and may not scare away potential commenters.
maginoo on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:12 am
CVJ, I think the business model which RP took in a way by-passed traditional manufacturing. We went straight to IT, knowledge-based, and the sort. This strategy utilized our skilled, English-speaking labor pool but not enough. That’s why 3,000 OFWs leave each day. Also as a consequence, we import almost all manufactured goods for consumption. Is this a valid assessment?
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:15 am
To Winnie Monsod,
Like a good wife, Gloria might have promised her husband a cut of the Philippine economy if it does well on her term. And it did, and he did.
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:17 am
Riddler, the only way to have integrity without logic 101 is to shut yourself up from any intellectual suggestion. Gloria has learned that the hard way.
The Ca t on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:22 am
Are u teh spokepersn of M. Buencamino?
or are u the regular commenter who has a change of halloween costume in this period of lent.
take ur prozac, it may ease you a little bit. bwahaha
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:22 am
riddler,
Reminds me of the inutility at times of the so-called rules of logic, i.e. rules against ad hominem arguments (some invokes this when in fact they crossed the line of degrading the truth or when they stonewall, such as what frequently dear Ate Glo uses).
Logic is the servant of the truth, not the other way around. I say when a person is in all honesty being a cad, or evil as Neri says, or Salceda says a lucky bee — and it’s the truth, well stating so trumps puny logic all the time.
Good a.m. folks or night (to others who are on the other side of the globe). Calling it a day na.
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:24 am
Maginoo, yes i think that’s a valid assessment although the by-passing was not a conscious choice but a result of lack of industrial policy. (The last such policy i remember is Marcos’ 11 Major Industries before 1983.) Our technocrats are neo-liberal market fundamentalists and to them, industrial policy is a bad word.
Whether the strategy of leapfrogging via services alone is enough to result in a sustained acceleration of our economic growth is arguable. Both China and India have both manufacturing and services to fuel their growth.
Madonna on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:26 am
“invokes” — invoke
The Ca t on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:26 am
Courage? Calling people who do not agree to your opinion, duwag with another DISPOSABLE ALTERNICK.
bwahahaha. joke of the day. thanks for making me laugh.
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:27 am
Madonna,
Logic is a servant of nothing. It is a good unto itself, as philosophers like to phrase it. In logic, one can always find a liar. The problem is the way Filipinos treat truth-finding as a debate, with time limits, etc. In this situation, the person who talks rapidly wins and the person who hesitates looses.
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:28 am
@Cat
Huli ka na sa balita. Prozac has been shown to be as effective as a placebo.
diego on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:31 am
i share mindanaoan’s observation. we have very erudite bloggers here. please continue the good work, so i don’t have to increase my reading.
grd on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:32 am
Cat, whatabout integrity?
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:33 am
Who you calling erudite?
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:36 am
Cat,
O Beha! Natawa ka! Masarap ba yung pusa mo? At least, di baluktot ang mga facts ko! Pwede ba? Magpakatotoo ka naman! Pro-GMA ka naman, ayaw mo pang aminin! Beha!
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:39 am
@cvj
you, reading benign-zero? ay, bumaba na tingin ko sa iyo. Matapos mo akong laitin for reading The Economist, heto ka pala at na-advertise mo pa si Benign-zero.
cheers
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:42 am
Cat,
Oh and by the way beha, I was not forcing Mindanaoan to agree to my opinion. On the contrary, I was merely asking him to answer a question which he refused to directly answer.
You know beha, next time, please check the comment thread. You are not only grievously wrong on your facts, you are also so lazy following the thread.
Halika, magamin ka na. Aminin mo ng pro-GMA ka. Hanggang ngayon, ayaw mo pang aminin. Nakakahiya ba? Ikaw ang duwag! Beha!
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:46 am
nash, i plead no contest.
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:48 am
most commenters here are worth debating with. you really learn from them even as, at times, you disagree. some insolent interlopers, who manage to pop in and out like foul air, are best ignored and left to their own insane soliloquy. as the big C’at admonishes, don’t feed the trolls!
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:49 am
Cat,
Beha! Sumakay ka pa kay Manuel Buencamino!
Uulitin ko beha! huwag mo nang pagtanggolan si Bencard. Abogago yon, kaya niyang depensahan ang sarili niya. Si Manuel Buencamino, isang diplomat lang naman. Magtapatan sila.
Hindi ako spokesperson ni Manuel Buencamino. Hindi niya kailangan ng spokesperson. Kayang kaya niyang sagutin sino man kahit na mga pro-GMA na bloggers na nagpapanggap na objective kuno tulad mo. Beha!
Salamat sa Prozac pero di ko kailangan yon! Beha!Bigay mo na lang kay nash.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:53 am
Bencard,
You’re such a weasel. You call yourself a lawyer and yet, you could not even dare answer Manuel Buencamino’s challenge to you!
No, i think i will make it my duty to see to it that pompous guys like you and Cat deserve all the true recognition that you deserve, i.e., you’re a coward.
And until such time you can answer Manuel Buencamino’s challenge, I will always remind you of him.
Troll? Oh, so that’s what you are!
Sagutin mo si Manuel Buencamino and I will desist. In the meantime, panero, let me have the privilege of calling you duwag!
maginoo on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:55 am
paki-moderate yung spite. baka mainis si manolo at kick-out tayo lahat.
grd on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:56 am
hahaha! it’s entertaining here.
calling it a day. but before i retire, i’ll continue w/ my countdown… DAY 3
magdiwang on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:07 am
Riddler, I think you are articulate enough to defend and express yourself on the issues. Like you said you believe that your opinions are relevant. What I dont understand is why you have to call people names. This is a social networking site where people can agree to diagree without resorting to insultin people. Peace.
The Ca t on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:13 am
Thank you for reminding me BC.
I should be repeating it as matra today.
NEVER TAUNT CAGED ANIMAL by dangling food to his nose.
sometimes it FARts the loudest. mwehehe.
memo to myself. repeat that again and again.
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:20 am
mlq3, we have debated these matters oftentimes before but each time is an opportunity to reinforce or revisit our positions.
each time an impeachment attempt fails because of the application of pre-set rules adopted by the duly-empowered impeachment body, it is a triumph of the “rule of law”. each time a prosecutor dismisses a complaint, or refuses to indict, for lack of sufficient evidence, it is a triumph of the rule of law. each time a president act according to her interpretation of the constitution, he/she is implementing the rule of law, until and after her act is invalidated, in a proper case, by the supreme court. no one, but no one, including 9,20,30,50 or even 100 thousand “interfaith” rallyists, can take the law into his/her/their own hand.
btw, i don’t think lozada is a most “credible” authority on justice.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:22 am
Magdiwang,
Fair comment but there are trolls here who deserve to be treated as such. People who continually and deliberately foist lies do not deserve a genteel treatment. The minimum requirement I believe in this comment thread is that at least do not deliberately misstate your facts. Those who deliberately prevaricate deserve the scorn heaped upon them.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:29 am
Bencard,
Panero, tama na yan! Sinasagot mo si Manolo pero hindi mo pa sinasagot si Manuel Buencamino? Sabihin mo sa akin na mali ka at titigil na ako. Rule of law, rule of law, eh yung challenge ni Manuel Buencamino, di mo masagot!
Hay, cobarde!
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:32 am
@bencard
“each time a president act according to her interpretation of the constitution”
Please excuse me, but even people who did not go to law school KNOW that is is NOT the president’s job to INTERPRET the constitution.
cheers.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:33 am
Cat,
Beha! Make another memo: I, Cat, promise to distort the facts, este, not to distort the facts pala.
Beha!
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:36 am
was that another UTOT, or was that the real stinky thing? and it calls me “panero”, amazing!
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:38 am
Bencard,
Ha ha ha, that was funny! Duwag ka pa rin! Sagutin mo si Manuel Buencamino. Duwag!
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:39 am
Bencard,
Hoy Duwag! Baka ang roll of attorney number mas mataas kaysa sa yo! Once again with feelings, sagutin mo si Manuel Buencamino. Duwag!
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:42 am
nash, i’ll humour you. everybody, including you, can interpret the constitution the way you understand it. if anyone is aggrieved because of your “interpretation” he can sue you and the court will decide whether you are correct or not. if you don’t agree with what i’m telling you here, ask your own attorney, or maybe abe margallo can help you.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:57 am
Readers,
This is why I am so mad at Bencard who so arrogantly proclaims he is a lawyer and why I find him to be the First Coward of this thread. This is what he said to manuel buencamino:
“buencamino, first, who says it is a treaty? don’t you know there is a complex process in negotiating and consummating a treaty, not the least of which is approval by the legislature? second, in a contract, each party recognizes the other’s capacity, i.e., ownership of the subject matter. are you saying that while we have to recognize china’s claim, they don’t have to recognize ours? try not to lecture me on legal principles, will you?”
In response, this is what Manuel Buencamino retorted:
Bencard,
buencamino, first, who says it is a treaty? don’t you know there is a complex process in negotiating and consummating a treaty, not the least of which is approval by the legislature? second, in a contract, each party recognizes the other’s capacity, i.e., ownership of the subject matter. are you saying that while we have to recognize china’s claim, they don’t have to recognize ours? try not to lecture me on legal principles, will you?
FIRST, if it is executive agreement, an moa or mou, it is worse. That means your president singlehandedly committed the Philippines to recognizing China’s claim to the Spratleys without the consent of Congress. Can you see the constitutional problem you just created for your president?
Maybe we should check to see if she made a similar deal with Malaysis over Sabah. If you will recall the farthest Fidel Ramos ever went on the Sabah issue was to announce he was going to put it on the backburner. You know there is a world of difference between FVR’s and your president’s position.
SECOND, our claim is we are the SOLE OWNERS AND SOVEREIGNS of that disputed territory. That’s why we cannot enter into a contract with a party that has a rival claim. We cannot enter into a mutual recognition arrangement without sacrificing our claim to SOLE OWNERSHIP AND SOVEREIGNTY!
Which part of SOLE OWNERSHIP AND SOVEREIGNTY do you not understand?”
And then bencard again arrogantly displays his shingles and talks down to buencamino in this way:
“buencamino, it’s my business to understand the concepts of “sole ownership†and “sovereigntyâ€. what about you? being able to write those words doesn’t necessarily connote technical understanding of those terms. i don’t think debating the matter would benefit either one of us. sorry, buddy.”
And this is what buencamino said that nailed bencard’s pompous lawyerly ass:
“bencard,
“buencamino, it’s my business to understand the concepts of “sole ownership†and “sovereigntyâ€. what about you?â€
I am a diplomat. It is my business to understand matters involving national territory and sovereignty because that is my business.
So I am telling you that recognizing another country’s claim to territory we say we is ours weakens our claim and strengthens theirs!
So once again I ask you: which part of SOLE OWNERSHIP AND SOVEREIGNTY did you not understand?”
I checked the comment thread for that day and to date, Abogagong Bencard has yet to answer Buencamino’s challenge!
I have continually issued a challenge to Bencard because I despise the way he foists his lawyerly abilities on other just because he is a lawyer. Well, I too am a lawyer and I would never talk down to any person.
That shyster Bencard deserves to be pilloried and until such time he answers the challenge of Buencamino, I, as a fellow member of the bar, will hold him to his arrogance and pompousness!
isatambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:58 am
the impeacment proceedings( at least three) against gma wasn’t dismissed because of lack of sufficient evidence! it was a numbers game- as admitted by arroyos lapdogs un congress. they only used that “lack of sufficient ecidence” as an excuse! if you don’t know these then quit arguing! do you watch news or read the papers? trust it was all over every newspapers then even a first grader will tell you this!
the rule of law in congress is being bastardize and prostituted by arroyo’s congressmen. rule of (arroyo’s) law that is!
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:01 am
@bencard
I don’t need an attorney. Maybe it’s you who needs one, baka may maniwala sa iyo na the president can really “interpret” the constitution.
Yes, we can casually ‘interpret’ the constitution when we are in da kanto but in your statement you say that the president should ACT according to her/his interpretation of the constitution. Maling mali ka doon, As in wow mali.
isatambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:09 am
let us have it all in the open! be able to defend your position! if you can’t stand the heat get out! it is either you have or you don’t! will it stand in plaza miranda?!
isatambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:10 am
FUN!FUN!FUN!
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:10 am
Bencard,
Stop bragging about your abilities as a lawyer. You talk down to non-lawyers. Stop it. You’re not only a coward, you are an arrogant shyster.
I’m still waiting for your response to Manuel’s challenge. And unless you do, no one will believe in your “credibility”. In the same manner that you dont believe that Lozada is a credible authority on justice, the readers dont think you are a credible representative of the legal profession.
You’re a coward and an arrogant lawyer!
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:20 am
you? a lawyer? you could have fooled me! you sure don’t sound like one. you sure you’re not jambay madrigal?
btw, as i said, further debating “sovereignty” and “ownership” with your friend, buencamino, will not benefit either of us. we are not on the same plane of thought, not speaking the same language, not the same level of understanding. you call that arrogance or pomposity, suit yourself.
ca’t, sorry, i broke the rule. but this is the last time i’m addressing this troll who calls me “panero” (lol).
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:25 am
Bencard,
ha ha ha. that was funny. but you’re still a coward and an arrogant lawyer. I will keep posting that thread wherever you post in this blog just to remind you that the lawyer’s oath does not include haranguing other people with their legal knowledge.
And yes, I am sure I am not Jamby Madrigal and I may not have even earned my legal spurs in this jurisdiction but I’m pretty sure you’re a coward and an arrogant lawyer.
From hereon, I will call you Bencard-CAL. It is an apt description.
Duwag! Such a nice term in Filipino, stronger than coward!
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:25 am
nash, wallow in your own ignorance for all i care! end of discussion.
isatambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:30 am
btw, as i said, further debating “sovereignty†and “ownership†with your friend, buencamino, will not benefit either of us. we are not on the same plane of thought, not speaking the same language, not the same level of understanding. you call that arrogance or pomposity, suit yourself.-bencard
my dumb question would be- how come debating to determine who’s position is best is not beneficial? not speaking same language? not same level of understanding? not same plane of thought?
what language do lawyers speak?
what plane of thought are lawyers in?
and what level understanding are lawyers in?
is it something a common individual here cannot reach or fathom? only lawyers such you can?
i feel those statements the least are insulting if not a show of arrogace or pomposity.
i bet even the least educated individual here will agree with me.
i think it would be best if you can enlighten us with you thoughts and knowledge and expertise then. it would be very beneficial to everyone here.
or simply “just answer the question”! is it that hard?
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:32 am
Bencard,
You said: “btw, as i said, further debating “sovereignty†and “ownership†with your friend, buencamino, will not benefit either of us. we are not on the same plane of thought, not speaking the same language, not the same level of understanding. you call that arrogance or pomposity, suit yourself.”
Excuse me, bencard, I call that cowardice! After talking down to buencamino not to lecture you on legal principles and then suddenly backing off after realizing he is a diplomat. thats cowardice. In Filipino, duwag!
Arrogance is when you tell other people to wallow in their ignorance or get their own attorney.
Either way, you’re still a coward or duwag and an arrogant shyster.
isatambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:32 am
let us not have lawyer talk here just to confuse the other. let us speak a language where everyone can understand. please. no fork tongues please. enlgish or filipino is preferred.
riddler on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:41 am
istambay,
Don’t bother asking bencard. He is in another league – the league of extraordinarily arrogant but cowardly shysters.
The truth is gauging by his answers, his knowledge of international law is nil, he answers on the basis of the law on obligations and contracts and spits a bit of what he learned in international law in his maybe 3rd year of law school.
That is why when confronted with what is a treaty, executive agreement or a moa or an mou, he is at a loss and suddenly retracts and tells buencamino, there’s no point in debating. Gee, and I thought he said somewhere that it is always fruitful and a learning experience to debate with others. Yan pala, when confronted with someone more knowledgeable about the topic, he clams up and says, it wont benefit anyone. Istambay, you had a very good observation of what Bencard-CAL said.
Yan ang problema sa mga madudunong. They think that just because this comment thread are peopled mostly by non-lawyers and non-accountants, they think they can lord it over you guys. Well, this has to stop. Bencard-CAL’s arrogance, pompousness, shrill propaganda in the guise of legal eck eck must stop. Dont listen to him, he is just, as he calls it, UTOT!
But as far as I am concerned and in my book, he is the FIRST COWARD of this thread and a duwag!
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:51 am
hear that manolo? somebody is laying down the rules here as if he owns this blog. he has been doing that since he materialized from somewhere in hell, insolently appropriating your blog for himself. and he calls himself a lawyer, an avenging one at that, what a shame!
he has been egging me to “answer” somebody as if i am his uto-uto. the nerve!
isatambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:58 am
c’mon don’t hide behind manolo’s pants! now that will be construed as cowardice. be a man!
isatambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:59 am
enlighten us!
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 6:06 am
dahil sa hamak na tambay sa kalya lamang ako ay nakakaintindi rin sa mga bagay bagay na gumugulo sa ating bayan at mga surilanin na bumabagbag sa bawat mamamayan na may malasakit sa inang bayan na nilalapastangan nina arroyo at mga kasabwat sa paghahasik ng lagim at kasakiman.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 6:06 am
“kalye”
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 6:14 am
we are still waiting for an answer and asking for one is not making one an uto-uto for answering . that if you have an answer. is it a valid question? is the answer going to be beneficial? i think both answer is yes!
Kamote on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 6:48 am
Amazing.
Manolo said.
The more the manyier or something to that effect.
Bencard, a rightfully question was asked to you by manuel buencamino. He replied to your statement then asked you that question befitting a supposed to be lawyer like you. Don’t you think it’s only proper to answer it back?
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 6:52 am
estambay, in my profession i get paid to answer questions. in this blog, i answer only if and when i want to. in both cases, i can be selective. any complaint? sue me!
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:04 am
Heheheh, guys take it easy, someone here might declare Executive Privilege then hole up in Camp Crame
james on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:12 am
mlq
You still gambling your 2 cents with this ‘took your money the last time but spent it all, sorry’ guy
here is a brilliant article from pedrosa: Fascism in the streets
excerpts
‘The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information.
With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.†So is it in the Philippines
The Makati Business Club’s omnipresence in the rally (reportedly footing the bill for the rally) is not surprising. Italian Giovanni Gentile wrote in the Encyclopedia Italiana: “Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.â€
“American fascists would have to lie to the people in order to gain power. And, because they were in bed with the nation’s largest corporations — who could gain control of newspapers and broadcast media — they could promote their lies with ease.
Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism. They use every opportunity to impugn democracy.
They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection,†Wallace added.
That is not difficult to translate in Philippine terms circa 2008 and the interpretation of recent events by media owned or influenced by big business.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:13 am
THEN RIDDLER IS RIGHT!!! i rest my case your honor.
and i thoght we just having a spirited discussion here for free! monolo, you’re not charging a fee here right? no texting fee or any of that kind to comment here, right?
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:18 am
Heheh, fascism in the streets? How about fascism in governance.
Air Transport Office: “No-fly zone over the rally…” (takot kaming mabisto ang bilang ng protesters)
Police: “Di namin hinaharangang ang rallyists…” (meanwhile a chopper films the police roadblock preventing rallyists from passing through)
Administration: “Let’s give them the Spratlys and lease between 1 to 2 million hectares of Philippine agricultural land as a bonus…” (malaking kickback dito)
Worse that a fascist government… a lying and corrupt fascist government
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:21 am
estambay, in my profession i get paid to answer questions. in this blog, i answer only if and when i want to. in both cases, i can be selective. any complaint? sue me!-bencard
really?!!! and how much that would be? maybe we could come up with that fee so we could here those precious words of wisdom that lawyers such as you could only have!
magcocolect ako sa mga kasama ko sa kalye at sa mga tsuper na dumadaan. piso-piso hanggang makabuo!
name your price. we will wire it via bpi o pnb. we talking here in terms of peso or dollar?
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:22 am
we could “hear here”….those word of wisdom!
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:28 am
Heheheh, guys take it easy, someone here might declare Executive Privilege then hole up in Camp Crame-kabayan
he’s digging his own hole and a very deep one. now he can’t come out.and asking for manolo to throw him a rope. maybe manolo sould, then he could hang himself with it. no need to dig a hole just tambakan na lng! he is already where he shold be anyhow of his own making. just like the arroyos digging their own holes. soon that is where they will all stay for eternity!
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:38 am
istambay_sakalye said:
Actually I have a “rope” here, but in my profession I do not throw ropes to anyone who likes digging deep holes.
JMCastro on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:42 am
I have been busy for the past couple of weeks, but I took the time to look over the testimony of Madriaga in the Senate.
The NBN project really stinks — the price and brand (i.e. Alvarion) of the WIMAX equipment they were recommending is a cheap last-mile solution, not the more expensive and reliable back-haul solution. NEDA sunk their technical team’s recommendation for a satellite-based back haul because satellite transponder space is just “too expensive” — baka dahil bubukol kung idadagdag yung patong nung mga amo nila.
This lack of concern for the reliability of this project is outrageous — this on top of allegations that the GMA government is selling us out to China. I think that every effort must be made to make GMA and her supporters accountable to the public, since this already constitutes “attempted rape” on the Republic of the Philippines, which is just too much.
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:44 am
manolo, what a hijack. see the scumbags infesting your blog now? pretty soon they will saturate it, if they have not already. then you’d be competing with tordesillias’.
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:47 am
Yes there are indeed scumbags, they like to hole up in Crame and dig deep holes
Kamote on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:52 am
I still stand what manolo said.
The more the manyier!!!
Teka nag mumukha ng harapan yung pagbira kay bencard. Pang 1 on 1 harapan eksena na tulad nina abalos at lozada plus razon at kung sino pang isa. Ang kaibahan nga lang e bencard versus the mob at yung mob ang mas pinapaniwalaan ng tao LOL.
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:59 am
Kamote said:
Nagaantay siguro mag-declare ng Executive Privilege para may lusot.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:09 am
tulongan nyo naman. nakakaawa
walang iyaakan dito!
lol.
manolo, what a hijack. see the scumbags infesting your blog now? pretty soon they will saturate it, if they have not already. then you’d be competing with tordesillias’.-
bencard
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:25 am
justice league, i meant to post this for you but i was sidetracked by visiting assassins in this blog.
re- tragedies in camarines sur, of course a congressman’s presence would go a long way towards boosting the morale of the victims’ families. i agree, dato should have been there in person. however, what i was commenting on was about the bishops, priests and nuns (never mind the hypocritical, rosary-bearing men and women shouting “gloria resign”) who never even remembered offering publicly a prayer for the countless departed and their grieving families, whereas they would happily set up a “patriot’s fund” for lozada. is this how low my church has deteriorated? an “interfaith prayer rally”? was it a christian prayer, prayer that “gloria” be ousted and damned for “corruption” that they have already prejudged she had committed? my faith as a catholic is intact, but i want to have no part in the erosion of my church because of the questionable acts of this apostates and parishees.
Jon Limjap on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:32 am
riddler, mlq3
Then my question to you guys is this:
How can you assure me that, if GMA is removed, her residual power and influence (or that of FG) will not affect any future political movement, the way that Erap’s power and influence continues to pollute the current opposition polity?
My beef on the “resign now” camp is that it doesn’t ensure that it will diminish her influence and her legacy, the way that Erap’s ouster did not diminish his influence and legacy among his ilk.
I don’t want that to happen again.
If she is ousted *now*, what difference would it make when she would be out there claiming to be the duly elected and unlawfully ousted president and even posing that she could run for president again (come 2016?) in the same style that Erap is taking now re 2010?
Having her finish her term would ensure that the provision on the constitution where a president who has served a full six year term cannot run again is fulfilled. It is very much unlike Marcos who found extra-constitutional ways to extend his mandate. GMA’s mandate is not over yet — whether or not she cheated or not. That fact could bite us in the behind the way Erap’s is doing now.
If GMA even attempts to extend her mandate, I’ve said it in my blog, I’ll say it again: I’ll gladly join the protests, or if it needs be, take up arms.
My only point is that in calculating risks I think that ousting her *now* is much more riskier than letting her finish her term and then running after her thereon.
As per the economy, the opinion of the MBC is the opinion of the MBC, but experience dictates that every extra-constitutional ouster sends our market crashing. Even if it does not, a regime change still will not mean a direct trickling down of economic gains to the poor (seriously, how THAT can ever happen is a question I can’t answer myself). So is her ouster an assurance of increased economic activity and business confidence? If experience is any indication, the answer is no, but of course you are free to think otherwise.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:32 am
we are still waiting for an answer to an unanswered question! you’ve got to face the music instead of asking for manolo’s help!
if you can’t and is conceeding your position then admit it. you’ll be a better man by admitting that you can’t win or be right all the time.
it took a while but nakahanap ka rin ng katapat mo kay
buencamino! he’s more than a handful for you!
YOU WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH! bencard!
Jon Limjap on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:37 am
cvj,
Point well-taken regarding the way HK, SG and CN handled their scarce land. However, would you really want to give government strict control and regulation over our real-estate resources, for the sake of encouraging manufacture, considering the level of corruption existing therein?
I have a feeling it will only cause more problems than it solves.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:39 am
justice league, i meant to post this for you but i was sidetracked by visiting assassins in this blog- bencard
dramatic effect. very like gma’s minions! nice try but the fact still remains that YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
and running away from it is not gonna solve it.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:44 am
there are already attempts to extend gma’s term beyond 2010. charter change sounds familiar?
contrado de quiros said it time and time again, she will hang on to her power like marcos did! she’s already in deep caca with the rest of her minions that leaving malacanang will leave her open to any criminal proceedings and she will be hang for it!
i suggest you start joining the rallies now. the sooner the better.
VeePee Bus Dev on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:55 am
Pero mayroon namang mga tao — siguro, sampu — na gusto nilang maging prime minister si GMA para mas matagal ang asenso (ng sampu).
VeePee Bus Dev on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:59 am
2010 — go Manny Villar, fishtrader turned
1990 Most Outstanding CPA
by the Institute of Certified Public Accountants.
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 10:30 am
Veepee,
Sigurado ka bang may 2010 eleksyon?
mlq3 on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 10:32 am
bencard, you can defend yourself and particularly when your credibility is impeached.
that being said, concerning your comment: everyone can and should render judgment on the legal system. and the simple principle is what is legal isn’t necessarily what’s right. we aspire to have both, a system of law that also promotes justice.
james, the less said about pedrosa, the better. we personally get along very well but her support of the president’s cha-cha blunder is one reason the administration’s where it is, now.
john, you can look at dr. mike alba’s chart of gdp and i think you will notice a boost to the economy after edsa 1 and 2. one simple reason is the return of optimism, and a mood of cooperation that comes from removing a large obstacle. the growth after edsa 1 was spectacular and only stopped by the gringo coup attempts.
recall that after edsa 2 estrada was finished as a political force until he got a second wind after being arrested. very possibly you would have had an edsa 2 landslide in the may 2001 elections if estrada had remained just another politico without a job at that time. and there’s one thing this president lacks compared to her predecessor: charisma, and people genuinely loyal. i continue to be puzzled by the paucity of those who proclaim themselves gma loyalists. why does everyone seem to preface criticism of her critics by saying “im no gma loyalist but…”.
Bencard on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 10:53 am
mlq3, i couldn’t care less if my “credibility” is questioned by anyone who doesn’t count in my book. what i write, i write. anyone can take it or leave it, refute it or agree with it.
but i’m not gonna engage anyone in a pointless debate that i find to be a useless exercise. it’s my own call, and not even you, as host of this blog, can make me do otherwise. when i argue, it’s not about me “winning” or “losing”, or whether someone is “smarter” or not than me. i’m not here to prove that.
btw, between you and me, let’s not debate my “credibility”. you can respond to my post re- your “court of public opinion” vs. court of law, if you want.
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:01 am
Credibility?
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:02 am
Incredibility?
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:03 am
Court of law?
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:04 am
Court of lawyers?
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:05 am
Court of Raul Gonzales?
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:06 am
Court of the Queen of Crame and Malacanang?
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:11 am
Warning: The Surgeon general has confirmed that crying in front of a computer because of a rejected plea for an Executive Privilege protection is deemed dangerous to ones health. Consult your nearest Presidential Spokesman and the Armed Forces of Pidal Chief immediately.
JMCastro on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:25 am
Jon:
The biggest problem right now is that there is lack of regulation because of corruption.
Right now, we are looking at just one sector — government corruption. But there is also corruption in the private sector, where it is difficult to obtain credit because of stock market manipulations (aka the BW affair and Dante Tan) and DOSRI-type bad loans. Certain influential people abused the trust in the financial sector for their own gain, and when the financial system lacks trust, there is breakdown in raising capital in order to pursue profitable business activities (not to mention exorbitant interest rates). You can forget about setting up a local semicon or a steel plant for now, since it is virtually impossible to raise the necessary capital to make one. Even development banks require a large amount of collateral before you can get a loan, since the banking system as it is right now is very risk averse because of past abuses.
From a broader perspective, it takes any organization, whether business or government, three (3) factors to set it up: 1. governance framework (rules and policies), 2. leadership (people leading others in following the rules), and 3. core competency (the techniques and processes that add value). Trust is the major component that binds these factors together. Even if we churn out competent people in our colleges and universities, you cannot lead people if rules and policies can be bent, more so if there is no trust in your leadership.
Corruption works by reducing what should have been a trust relationship into a monetary consideration — pay me, and I will continue to be loyal to you. I can imagine that it is taking more and more money in order to prevent GMA loyalists from jumping to the other side. So by all means cut-off corruption, keep a strict accounting of money spent in government projects, demand transparency from all levels of government, pay particular attention to the allocations for congressmen (CDA) and LGUs (IRAs), and everything else should follow. It’s a tough job, but if more people work with civil society and NGOs, this mid- to long-term objective should be attainable.
In my opinion, this is the first step towards making an inflexible regulatory regime from government, making it possible for business to take risks where it counts — not from maintaining a relationship with a backer who is a general or a highly-placed politico, but business risks that comes from confidence in one’s excellence and innovation.
mang_kiko on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:29 am
Si bencard nang Hamon na i sue daw siya, di naman siya kilala dito kahit nino man, pa-ano siya ma i sue? abogado nga talaga. di pag i sue mo ang tao ay kailangan i serve mo yong notice nang lawsuit, di pa-ano ma iserve yong lawsuit, ipopost ni Istambay sa kalye sa Blog, nakatutuwa naman.
Sabihin nya kilala siya ni MLQ, di ba nya alam na di puede nag may-ari nang blog na irelease ang pangalan nang manga posters dito liban lang kong may court order at yon ay ma-ari lamang kong naka concern nang National Security o kaya Serious Crimes??
Kabayan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:35 am
Pag may umiyak dito, tiyak issue of National Security at serious crime yun. Ayaw niyo maniwala? Tanungin niyo doon sa batang lansangan na umiiyak dahil kinantsyawan ng mga kalaro, declare kaagad ng State of National Emergency ang nanay niya.
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:51 am
Queen’s Gambit as proposed by grand master Solita Monsod:
4. Ooops, Military Knights might take over
5. Queen exiles nominal King
6. Its OK, nominal King always not at play when things heat up
7. Bishops, Knights, Pawns pacified? Maybe
Meanwhile, Super Pawn spews more charges to heat up the play.
Mob Boss Pawn aka “Sec, may 200 ka dito” is rumored to have fled the board.
Also, there’s so much venom in Grand Master Manolo’s box, it’s hard to call the play.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:18 pm
new discovery- a nice excuse for ad hominems, jumping to conclusions and begging the questions: i skipped logic 101 but i’ve been taught courage
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:35 pm
I guess we can agree that if we eliminate (or at least ‘moderate’) the level of corruption in government, then desirable policies such as government ownership and control over real-estate will become more feasible, and that would be good for economic development.
We know that in its present condition, there are a lot of desirable activities we would like the government to do but, because of corruption, we cannot entrust these tasks to them. Because of this, there has been an understandable temptation to avoid engaging with government altogether and try instead to take refuge in the market by concentrating on private efforts at improvement through entrepreneurship, or to limit the scope of our public engagement to community-oriented (e.g. GK-type) activities.
There is definitely a place for these bottom-up approaches, but the NBN/ZTE scandal (and the sell-out of the Spratly’s) has shown that there are limits to such an approach. Even if we leave government alone, it will still find a way to screw us. This is why active engagement by the public, including people power, makes more sense. We cannot make government irrelevant. We can only try to make it work for us.
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 1:45 pm
@cvj
yes, PEA-Amari, Fort Bonifacio, Smoky Mountain, Baseco, even MRT, etc. government decides to privatize when a very influential crony/oligarch could profit immensely. there’s a possibilty, it may happen again at Veterans.
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:02 pm
@cvj
jackast on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:06 pm
@cvj
which brings the point that, stripped of the drama and the hype, this political crisis is a quarrel between two rent-seeking families on the rent/spoils (per Sen. Santiago). Mayroon nga lang Lozada.
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:08 pm
ALL,
If we can’t handle these new commenters – ehm, these new “aliases” then how can we handle real democracy and a democracy where all classes participate.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:10 pm
mlq3, i couldn’t care less if my “credibility†is questioned by anyone who doesn’t count in my book. what i write, i write. anyone can take it or leave it, refute it or agree with it.- bencard
my apologies your highness! we are not worthy to stand in your presence! my as*! you’re so full of yourself! amd what book is that? xerex?! what a joke! get off your throne. spoken like a true gma lapdog that you are! take it to the court…did we here that before? from gma and her minions and just to be rebuked and embarassed by the supreme court time and time again! sue me! bite me!
cvj on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:31 pm
Oligarchs are as oligarchs do. If the people remain apathetic then, you’re right, the fight will remain at their level. That’s why we have to make our voices heard so that it will not be just about them. We cannot afford to keep quiet if only because we are the ones who will be paying for the loans that would otherwise have been undertaken by these rent-seeking elites.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:43 pm
brianb,
real democrazy = mob rule
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:57 pm
i admit it will not be perfect and peachykine after gma is kickout of malacanang. and we have to punish every single person involved in committing evil against the nation. let us not commit same mistakes post edsa I & II where the guilty individuals are allowed back in and free as a bird. we should bring back death penalty, only for those in the government and found guilty of crime against the nation; graft and corruption. it maybe the entire government, but it will be good for our country to finally get rid of the evils en mass.
it will be a long and painful process and big learning curve is needed, but getting rid of arroyo and her minions will be a start and a very good one. if you want to completely eliminate the termites in your house you have to find the queen termite and kill it then the rest will die as well! any pest control or termite terminator expert will tell this. this will work our country as well.
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:12 pm
“real democrazy = mob rule”
People never chooses chaos and anarchy if they really had a choice, mindanaoan.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:30 pm
dont bet on it. some people do. and that’s why we must think hard if it’s true we really don’t have a choice
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 3:50 pm
It’s human nature to seek stability. Sociopathic behavior exists and some people are in so much pain it makes them desire chaos, but humans in their most normal state are creatures of stability. This is the underlying cause this progress and change. Even war is a desire for stability. Countries don’t go to war because they desire chaos, they go to war in search for more peace.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:14 pm
brianb,
some desire instability to open political opportunities. that is what we should guard against. some people are enraged, maybe rightly so, for the right reasons. most i think are deliberately agitated. we all should be careful we don’t play into the hands of those who have an agenda, on both sides of the fence.
JMCastro on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 4:49 pm
BrianB:
Wars are fought for either survival or dominance, not for peace, which is the opposite of war.
I share mindanaoan’s concern: what is the sort of stability we are aiming for? After EDSA ‘86, our history as a nation is spotty, and our politics evolved into a dog eat dog affair. Ironically, the only moment of peace we had was under the presidential term of FVR who, to his credit (like him or hate him), peacefully handed power over to Erap.
Our only hope is to develop and maintain civic virtues through institutions that transcend personalities, especially presidential terms. The formula for getting there is tricky and tough as hell.
nash on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:05 pm
@bencard
Hala sige, please EDUCATE ME.
Name me a place in the world where the president’s remit is to “Act according to her/his interpretation of the constitution”.
The Ca t on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 5:08 pm
blockquote>ca’t, sorry, i broke the rule. but this is the last time i’m addressing this troll who calls me “panero†(lol).
No problemo. Trolls are trolls no matter what handles they assume. Usually they make use of disposable alternicks so that when they self-destruct, they can always go back to their other regular handles.
When they lose their cool, they also lose. Imagine a lawyer verbally abusing commenters just because they differ in their opinion. Paano kaya sa korte yan. Minumura rin ang kalaban. But I know dito lang yan. Kasi di siya kilala. Pag sabi niya duwag, tama sa kaniya. TOINK. SPLAT pa sa mukha. mwehehe
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 6:15 pm
JMCastro
“Wars are fought for either survival or dominance,”
People want to survve and they want to survive for as long as they can without threat (that’s why men used to hunt wild beast for sport). We want to dominate for the same reason. Peace is the purpose of these things. Inner peace, peace of mind, a peace and stable way of life.
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 6:17 pm
bencard<——damsel in distress!
the ca t <—–the prince in white and shining armor ready to rescue the damsel in distress! prrrrrrrr.
now that is so sweet. lol.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 7:56 pm
brianb,
your effort is valiant, but this ‘war to search for peace’ is simply bunk. wars are waged for so many reasons. it is a delusion to think you’ll have peace after your war.
The Ca t on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 8:37 pm
Oh yes, to put something sweet in otherwise comment box getting toxic.
At least there is one bencard that prevents this comment box from becoming a mutual admiration club.
Don’t you get tired of hearing echoooooooooooooooooooos?
Toink.
filresist on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:01 pm
Wars are fought for various reasons as already been ‘exhausted’ above.
But the most important thing to ask,
WHO INSTIGATED THE WAR?
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:43 pm
“your effort is valiant, but this ‘war to search for peace’ is simply bunk. wars are waged for so many reasons. it is a delusion to think you’ll have peace after your war.”
I’m saying, in the anthropological level, war, fighting is done to end the threat. The root cause of all other “Interests” in war. Oil, territory, religious causes… war waged to end the threat of running out of oil, of running out of land of food and of religious
This is not an effort, what are you talking about?, to make peace from war. I am merely stating the need for conflict in human nature. This need arises from threat. To end threat, what is the purpose? But peace.
justice league on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 9:46 pm
Riddler,
I could be wrong but 2 posts of yours aren’t exactly consistent.
jason born on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 10:04 pm
Hi cat, i think you are the most abused Cat in this blog. Don’t worry, i already asked the animal activists in Malacañang to rescue you.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 10:39 pm
brianb,
there are indeed anthropological theories of war, but none seems to have anything to do with peace. or are you trying to develop a new theory?
effort- i mean your effort to defend your position, because i think it’s so untenable. frankly, i’d already like to drop the subject, ok?
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:05 pm
what is peace to you?
from the dictionary: “freedom from disturbance; quiet and tranquility : you can while away an hour or two in peace and seclusion.”
You’ve father never shouted at you or spanked you because you were noisy. War can be like that, a shouting or a spanking.
i
War s man’s struggle for peace everlasting. This is basic, Philo 101.
BrianB on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:09 pm
And it is not MY position. I just mentioned it because some propagandists like to think of an absolute evil who loves death, war and destruction. If you believe that there is this kind of evil, then I suppose you don;t get why war is rooted from man’s desire to have peace.
mindanaoan on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:21 pm
“War s man’s struggle for peace everlasting.” lovely
justice league on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:21 pm
Nash,
I think what is meant is a “working knowledge” (for want of a better term) of the Constitution.
There are sections or provisions in the Constitution that certainly (may) have not been brought yet before the Supreme Court for proper interpretation depending on cases at hand.
justice league on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:28 pm
JON Limjap,
The way that I think Estrada can not run for the Presidency again is also the same that I think would restrict PGMA as based on the “current” Charter.
justice league on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:48 pm
Bencard,
I didn’t hear the prayer so I can’t say if they did state that or not. But I don’t think the idea is lost on them.
If they didn’t do so in that public gathering; then they may have done so in their parishes.
However, even in Bicol where part of the calamity has occurred; Bicolanos have held their own “masses for truth”. A mass was held in St. Stephen Parish in Ligao City, hometown of ZTE-NBN star witness Rodolfo Noel Lozada Jr. officiated by Bishop Quiambao along with other priests.
In the homily, they acknowledged that Albayanos have been reeling from natural disasters but added that they (Albayanos) “could no longer take man-made calamities†brought about by graft and corrupt practices by people in government.
diego on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 11:59 pm
@justice league
were masses held, with the same theme, in other parishes? it seems that such event in Lozada’s mileau would be a given.
justice league on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 12:36 am
Diego,
Same theme as what?
If you are referring to similar “masses for truth” then yes like in Lipa, Bacolod, etc…
If you are referring to exactly the part wherein they can’t take man-made calamities due to corruption, then I can’t say.
There were however “themes” on man-made calamities due to logging etc. which some members of the Church alluded to as greatly enhancing the effects of the rains.
Bencard,
It seems Dato Arroyo’s Libmanan was more heavily affected than I thought.
The Social Action Centers of the Catholic Church have already started relief actions several days before the inter faith rally as continuous rains have affected Bicol and Eastern Visayas provinces.
They state that
“Ten parishes from the Prelature of Libmanan’s nine towns have been affected since February 18. Over 10,000 families have been affected. Farms have been submerged in water for a number of days. The Prelature’s Social Action Center concentrated its relief efforts in the towns of Libmanan, Minalabac and Milaor.”
The Ca t on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 1:18 am
Oh don’t you worry about me. I can always scratched whenever I want to without changing my costume to different personalities.
And I do not have to be diplomat to be diplomatic. Almost got one though, offered to me by one of friends I knew.
But even then, I condemn wrongdoing of any kind.
Bencard on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 3:10 am
justice league, it may very well be that “the idea is not lost in them”. but isn’t it unchristian to prejudge? is it proper, at all, for a bishop, priest or nun, to pray for the downfall of a person he/she doesn’t like, and to call her “evil” and “corrupt” just because it’s popular to say it?. Jesus said: “whenever two or more people are gathered for me and in my name, i am right in the middle” or words to that effect.
who do you think is in the middle of the “interfaith prayer rally”? a vengeful “god” surrounded by avenging “angels”?
i don’t think a Christian church would be engaged in a business of hate.
riddler on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 3:17 am
Hay Beha,
Condemn wrongdoing of any kind daw, pro Gloria ka, lahat ng kagaguhan ni Gloria, wala kang sinasabi!
Pwede bra beha? Magpakatotoo ka! Pro Gloria ka, hanggang ngayon, ayaw mong aminin!
Beha!
Bencard on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 3:21 am
“and i do not have to be a diplomat to be diplomatic” the Ca’t.
i concur. and i might add: one can appoint a diplomat but one cannot give the brains to go with it.
btw, c’at, is “diplomat” a permanent title, as in “presidente erap” according to jinggoy?
The Ca t on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 4:28 am
Hindi ka pa naliligo, nagseshadow boxing ka na. Ingat, baka mabuntal mo sarili mo. Toothbrush ka tuloy. There’s something betweenyour teeth. Masama ang amoy na lumalabas sa bunganga mo.
The Ca t on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 4:47 am
I really do not know what’s the rule in the title because there are different ranks in the diplomatic corps.
What I do know that people in the ranks of cultural and press attaches are not really diplomats. They are just attached to the diplomats. Thus the word attache.
I know only of one title that can be used lifetime, that being of a Dean of a college or a university.
Si Jinggoy? You make me laugh. Up to now, he considered his father the president while he is enjoying the status of being a senator in the current governance. hoho
mlq3 on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 10:51 am
bencard:
http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu43.htm
alas ka dora on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 11:30 am
so what do you think of those people who are working in makati? they make usi muna, stayed a little while then go home. they were never there to join these professional rallyists.-Ca T
Speak for yourself, Ca T. Professionals i’ve been with in the rally really joined Friday’s event with genuine interest for truth and accountability. That some of them went home ahead of the rest didn’t mean they were there participating nonchalantly as seemed suggested by your “usi muna” description.
The Ca t on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 2:11 pm
Yep, they were in a hurry to catch their rides home.
That style is called
“Certificate of Appearance” attendance. They just show themselves in the first few minutes or an hour and then simply disappear later. So much about the talk for the search of truth.
alas ka dora on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 5:26 pm
Ca t, I wouldn’t expect you to understand our efforts at being one with many who are asking for this gov’t to be more decent in dealing with transaction involving national coffers/pratimony in the way we know it. Because, just like the rest of the arroyo apoligist, you are expected to see no evil,hear no evil, smell no evil on the innumerable scandals that the arroyo admistration has committed.
nash on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 10:40 pm
@justice league
siempre, we all need a working ‘knowledge’
I don’t think ‘knowledge’ was what bencard meant.
For someone who claims technical knowledge, this attorney, who is paid for his legal ‘expertise’ used the words ‘the president…acts…according to his/her interpretation of the constitution”….
So all I am asking is, where on earth is this the case because certainly, when I was in elementary it was taught to me that this is not part of the head of state’s remit. Ke sa USA or sa Pilipinas, hindi yata ganito. Ewan ko kung binago. Eh kung binago, saan ang memo because I was absent in class….
nash on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 10:42 pm
@alaskadora
malala na kasi ang cognitive dissonance ng mga gma apologists na mga iyan kaya ganyan. hayaan na natin silang manahimik sa enchanted kingdom nila. atsaka, nang-aasar lang mga iyan dahil wala naman na sila sa pilipinas, they are rubber necking.
justice league on Mon, 3rd Mar 2008 11:40 pm
Bencard,
“17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
I can only surmise that they took “much” of that to heart and probably think a lot on the intention in bringing forth the so called fruit.
No sense then telling them not to judge so as not to be judged since they likely think its worth the gamble.
justice league on Tue, 4th Mar 2008 12:00 am
Nash,
Well only he can tell you what he actually meant, but I think he ended your discussion already.
Bencard on Tue, 4th Mar 2008 12:27 am
mlq3, thanks for the link. but the questions remain: who on earth will judge and exact vengeance on the “sinner”? who on earth can ascertain a particular person is “the sinner?
btw, the Lord said” “vengeance is mine”, didn’t He?
Andres on Tue, 4th Mar 2008 2:09 am
mlq3,
I am so happy with the result of the huge rally against the Evil One last Friday. Imagine, bringing all people from all sectors, different political affiliations, together was really great! It is the broadest gathering so far!
What really turned me off is the black & white group through Leah Navarro and Boy Saycon bitching about Erap. T
I know that the B & W people are your friends, but making those statements on tv is uncalled for. This was being used by Malacanang lapdogs as an issue saying that the movement is fragmented.
We need not be distracted from the main issue and main enemy that is the Evil One.
Bencard on Tue, 4th Mar 2008 2:29 am
“bringing all people from all sectors…” andres
5, 10, 20 individuals claiming to represent self-proclaimed “sectors” hardly constitute “all people”. no wonder, brianb counts only 2,000 attendance in the “inter-faith” rally (lol).
BrianB on Tue, 4th Mar 2008 2:37 am
“2,000 attendance in the “inter-faith†rally (lol).”
Bencard, this is during the evening. Obviously there was a lot more when it began. From the partial aerial shot, I estimate at least 25k.
I don’t know why the pro-Edsa people want to keep overestimating the crowd. The more you overestimate the less heroes and sincere individuals you will see joining in. Exactly what happened to the supposed 1 million people at Edsa Dos. Just a hunch.
About the 2k. I cannot for the life of me convince my mind that what I saw when I came that evening was more than this number.
mlq3 on Tue, 4th Mar 2008 9:48 am
andres, clarification: i am a co-convenor of black & white. boy saycon is with copa and has been silent all this time since he has a pending rebellion case or something. the criticism of estrada going on stage was made by saycon who claimed all sorts of things, from bishops to randy david walking out, which later on turned out not to be true.
what leah did, when asked, was confirm that some groups were unhappy with estrada going on stage. these are groups that have been unhappy with estrada all along. also, there was a specific agreement among the organizing groups precisely not to have estrada go on stage.
mayor binay explained why he invited the two former presidents on stage. bnw has accepted his reasons. we’re sure the position of groups re: estrada will be taken into consideration in future events. end of story.