The Mandate of Heaven (concluded the next day)
February 20, 2008 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
“Unity Walk”
“Solidarity Walk”
Same walk, different caption. A sign of the state of confusion at the Palace. Is it just me, or or are these pictured (from yesterday, the so-called “solidarity walk,” swiftly retitled “unity walk” at the Palace; by the way, see abashet joey on the President and PhotoShop) too creepily reminiscent of the End Days for Estrada, when he, too, tried to show his administration wasn’t beleaguered, by trotting out his cabinet?
Who among them is in or in the official family? The Inquirer editorial yesterday asked, Is it Neri next? and today it says it’s Panic time.
Trot, trot, clip-clop, tick-tock. What do you get?
A horse gone wild: Adviser calls Arroyo ‘luckiest b*tch’.
That’s just karma for what must surely have been a Palace factotum-released tusongbaboy YouTube video, featuring what seem to be wiretapped conversations between Jun Lozada and Joey de Venecia.
The Financial Times reports the President may be losing her fondness for playing the China card. I’ve begun rather interesting scuttlebutt of an intriguing kind, involving a government commitment to relinquishing our claims to the Spratley Islands in exchange for investments. But nothing firmer than that.
The ancient Chinese believed that the “mandate of Heaven†was revealed by tangible signs, such as flood or famine. Such misfortunes were indications that the legitimacy of a ruler was waning. Confucius elaborated the idea further, and taught that the “mandate of Heaven†was dependent on knowing the moral order of the universe, and demonstrating it in the six relationships that govern superiors and subordinates (i.e. minister to prince, friend to friend, teacher to student).
These relationships are evident in the various groups bestirred by recent events.
The Action for Economic Reforms is holding a presscon-forum on “The Godmother and the Philippine mafia” on Friday, Feb. 22 9:30 am to 12 noon at the Sta. Ana Room, 3rd Floor, U.P. College of Law. On the same day, February 22, The Law Student Government Coordinating Council, composed of the Student Councils of the Ateneo Law, UP, UST, FEU-La Salle and UE Schools of Law will be holding various activities (see i’m NOT a stop along the way. i’m a a DESTINATION for details). And Simbahang Lingkod ng Bayan has a forum on Feb. 23 (with regards to the Ateneo, read the concrete steps proposed by Simbahang Lingkod ng Bayan in their statement, as well as those proposed by the Ateneo’s Department of Political Science in its statement (the question then becomes, of course, what if government refuses to do anything?). On Feb. 25, there will be a “Concert for Truth, Accountablity and Reform” at the Ateneo from 4-8 pm (for information contact Ms. Reese Fernandez Programs Head, Team RP Tel: (02) 426-5657 <reesefernandez@ yahoo.com>)
Starting February 24, it seems Masses “for Truth vs. Corruption” are going to be held, sequentially, in Adamson University, the University of Santo Tomas, de la Salle University, and then Miriam College.
In recent weeks, the political landscape of the Philippines has been shaken because of one man, Rodolfo Noel Lozada, Jr., and his past proximity to Romulo Neri, Jr.
Both are of Chinese extraction; I have even heard that Romulo Neri, Jr. practices a form of divination, the I Ching. At this point it seems to me, whether consciously or not, both consider themselves Mandarins.
The Analects of Confucius, L. Giles translation.
The first two extracts concern definitions of good government. The first involves the “five excellent things” and the “four evil things”:
Tzü Chang asked Confucius, saying: What are the essentials of good government?—The Master said: Esteem the five excellent, and banish the four evil things; then you will become fit to govern. —Tzu Chang asked: What are the five excellent things?—The Master replied: The wise and good ruler is benevolent without expending treasure; he lays burdens on the people without causing them to grumble; he has desires without being covetous; he is serene without being proud; he is awe-inspiring without being ferocious.—He is benevolent without expending treasure: what does that mean?—The Master replied: He simply follows the course which naturally brings benefit to the people. Is he not thus benevolent without expending treasure? In imposing burdens, he chooses the right time and the right means, and nobody can grumble. His desire is for goodness, and he achieves it; how should he be covetous? The wise and good ruler never allows himself to be negligent, whether he is dealing with many men or with few, with small matters or with great. Is this not serenity without pride? He has his cap and robe properly adjusted, and throws a noble dignity into his looks, so that his gravity inspires onlookers with respect. Is he not thus awe-inspiring without being ferocious?—Tzü Chang then asked: What are the four evil things?—The Master said: Cruelty:—leaving the people in their native ignorance, yet punishing their wrong-doing with death. Oppression: requiring the immediate completion of tasks imposed without previous warning. Ruthlessness:—giving vague orders, and then insisting on punctual fulfilment. Peddling husbandry:—stinginess in conferring the proper rewards on deserving men.
The second related extract involves the tangible signs of good government, and the things that can be dispensed with, and the thing that absolutely cannot be dispensed with:
Tzü Kung asked for a definition of good government. The Master replied: It consists in providing enough food to eat, in keeping enough soldiers to guard the State, and in winning the confidence of the people.—And if one of these three things had to be sacrificed, which should go first?—The Master replied: Sacrifice the soldiers.—And if of the two remaining things one had to be sacrificed, which should it be?—The master said: Let it be the food. From the beginning, men have always had to die. But without the confidence of the people no government can stand at all.
Then two extracts in a similar vein, on the means to maintain public confidence, and the means to instill harmony in the people.
A simple rule of thumb concerning the hiring and firing of officials:
Duke Ai asked, saying: What must I do that my people may be contented? – Confucius replied: Promote the upright and dismiss all evildoers, and the people will be contented. Promote the evil-doers and dismiss the upright, and the people will be discontented.
A similar reiteration concerning promotions:
Chi K’-ang Tzü asked by what means he might cause his people to be respectful and loyal, and encourage them in the path of virtue. The Master replied: Conduct yourself towards them with dignity, and you will earn their respect; be a good son and a kind prince, and you will find them loyal; promote the deserving and instruct those who fall short, and they will be encouraged to follow the path of virtue.
And then, an extract pointing to the importance of precision on the part of policy makers:
Tzü Lu said: The Prince of Wei is waiting, Sir, for you to take up the reins of government. Pray what is the first reform you would introduce?—The Master replied: I would begin by defining terms and making them exact. —Oh, indeed! exclaimed Tzü Lu. But how can you possibly put things straight by such a circuitous route?—The Master said: How unmannerly you are, Yu! In matters which he does not understand, the wise man will always reserve his judgement. If terms are not correctly defined, words will not harmonise with things. If words do not harmonise with things, public business will remain undone. If public business remains undone, order and harmony will not flourish. If order and harmony do not flourish, law and justice will not attain their ends. If law and justice do not attain their ends, the people will be unable to move hand or foot. The wise man, therefore, frames his definitions to regulate his speech, and his speech to regulate his actions. He is never reckless in his choice of words.
And what about wrongdoers?
Chi K’ang Tzü questioned Confucius on a point of government, saying: Ought not I to cut out off the lawless in order to establish law and order? What do you think? -Confucius replied: Sir, what need is there of the death penalty in your system of government? If you showed a sincere desire to be good, your people would likewise be good. The virtue of the prince is like unto wind; that of the people, like unto grass. For it is the nature of grass to bend when the wind blows upon it.
In sum, then, in the face of wrongdoing on the part of officials, considering the things that make for effective government, and which weaken it:
Confucius rejoined: Ch’iu, an honest man hates your hypocrite who will not openly avow his greed, but tries instead to excuse it. I have heard that the ruler of a state or of a clan is troubled not by the smallness of its numbers but by the absence of even-handed justice; not by poverty but by the preresence of discontent; for where there is justice there will be no poverty; where there is harmony there will be no lack in numbers; where there is content there will be no revolution. This being the case then, if outlying communities resist your authority, cultivate the arts of refinement and goodness in order to attract them; and when you have attracted them, make them happy and contented. Now you two, Yu and Ch’iu, are aiding and abetting your master; here is an outlying community which resists your authority, and you are unable to attract it. Partition and collapse are imminent in your own State, and you are unable to preserve it intact. And yet you are planning military aggression within in the borders of your country! Verily I fear that Chi-sun’s troubles will come, not from Chuan-yü, but from the interior of his own palace.
Do you need someone else to tie this all together for you? Including the abstract at the end of this entry? Thank you, Left Flank.
The question then… as my column for today is titled, is for people to see what the Minimum and maximum goals they want achieve from hereon up to 2010 will be. (someone who takes the court of public opnion seriously is Chances in the Starlight).
Blogger un suplemento metafisico a la realidad de mi existencia slices and dices things very well:
The administration shall be presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. However, its actions do not allow me to do so. The anti-truth mafia has scribbled so much manipulation of evidence, information, and facts that the presumption of innocence has been vaporized. Instead of testifying for the “truth” the co-conspirators of the anti-truth mafia has been hiding behind what they call “executive privilege.” The administration has pushed the envelope too far. It is now at the edge of a cliff and is desperately holding on by trying to cover-up all pieces of evidence that may eventually lead to its demise.
Thanks to the anti-truth mafia’s propaganda, Jun Lozada has been accused of harboring nothing but hearsay which they claim is inadmissible in courts. However, he does say these statements under oath, thus he has with him what is called testimonial evidence. “A woman who has been raped can send a man in jail just with her testimonies.”(Escudero, 2008) In addition, he seems to be very consistent with his statements unlike some of the anti-truth mafia. Jun Lozada was also accused of being corrupt – which he admitted with a smile, and I think this makes him all the more credible – He was part of the project, he was an insider, he knew the goings-on of the ZTE-NBN deal.
Jun Lozada is neither a saint nor a hero but he has with him the truth. Whether he came out to tell the truth for the sake of truth or for some other ulterior motives – which is hard to think of considering that his testifying in the Senate has put him in a very precarious situation. If he were to lie, what motive was so great that he was willing to put himself out of the pan and into the fire almost voluntarily? Testifying has put Jun Lozada between the legendary monsters Scylla and Charybdis. He is currently between hell and the deep blue sea. In whatever perspective I try to view the course of events for Jun Lozada, I can’t seem to find any advantage that he might gain in testifying. In fact, he was “forced” to do so – as with the summons, this implies that testifying is not advantageous for him. On the other hand, he might be thinking of a career in showbiz. If that is so, then he is making a good start. We are probably watching one of the best soap operas ever made.
It doesn’t matter whether or not the bringer of truth has been tainted with wrongdoings in the past. What is more important is that he has the truth with him and so his voice shall be heard. The substance lie in the statements, not in the personality. An honest man will voluntarily take off his clothes to show that he has nothing to hide; while a thief would wear layers upon layers of clothes just to hide whatever it is that he has stolen.
In the rest of the blogosphere, the Ateneo Mass last Monday was covered by Don’t fight darkness. Bring the light, and darkness will disappear and by Mahal ko Pilipinas!!!!! and …strawberry-filled donuts… (Lozada’s nephew) and with photos by Blahg, Standing in Motion, neo saicon, sj while thatniceboy gives an insight into the minds of those who remain detached. There were other activities, too: it’s a yummy world recounts attending a Mass at the Redemptorist Church. highwayse7en8 doesn’t like Masses with political aims. Neither does priest-blogger Bangor to Bobbio. On the other hand, Postcard Headlines in Cebu describes the first glimmerings of people bucking the view that the city is “GMA Country”.
As for Lozada, lifelong learning compares what he’s doing to debriding dead tissue; pine for pine compares folksy Lozada and Abalos stories; as for views, there are the pro: there’s lecheplan, and four-eyed joie’s thoughts as well as Verities of a Writer’s heart; con: you can’t be more straightforward in expressing skepticism than under deconstruction; and neutral: preMEDitated wants to believe, but doesn’t yet. dino! dedicates poetry to the man. rl_829 thinks he’s a dead man. My Mirror to Reality undertakes an interesting experiment: what if Lozada is 100% good, or what if he’s 100% evil?Law and ICT and mga kababalaghan sa buhay ko take opposing views on whether Lozada’s phone being hacked is believable or not. Vincula points out we should give thanks for the demolition team assembled by the Palace.
There are, of course, continuing views on what’s going on. Katataspulong some time ago, wondered if people really want decent officials, or whether the tangled web of corruption makes for a comfortable pigsty for everyone. jmtaylor has a bone to pick with politicians in general. Romwald’s Realm tackles the dynamics of corruption: subtle rebel runs down a list of the ironies of life (politics-wise).
Lawyer notes of marichu c. lambino points out that the government keeps corroborating the testimony of Lozada (tart comments on Gaite’s admitting he gave Lozada half a million in Alleba Politics and Bong Montesa’s weblog ). The Mount Balatucan Monitor is certain of the outcome of government efforts at damage control. The Warrior Lawyer takes a similarly skeptical look at the Ombudsman, etc.
And yet… there are those who prefer to stick it out with the administration because they continue to loath those who oppose her more. In a sense, the “same-same” message track of the Palace continues to work, as Walk This Way echoes:
I mean, yes, the First Gentleman is a little piglet. No doubt about that. But please don’t tell me that all the politicians pursuing this issue aren’t little piglets either (below). Getting little greasy slices of pork from projects like the NBN is modus operandi in ANY administration – it’s no secret to us and it’s no secret to the senators doing the grilling. It’s been the modus operandi for decades! Where else would ANY administration get money to do things like, oh, give to senators and congressmen for their election campaigns? Senators and Congressmen don’t come for free, ya know. Tip: instead of looking at the noisy ones, let’s try and count who are the quiet ones in Senate and Congress. Perhaps they are quiet because they already were given their pieces of the pork. And it’s only the squealing ones that are upset because they didn’t get theirs. Hence, if it’s all just piggies fighting piggies over pieces of pork that they just pass on to other piggies, then it’s just politics in the end. Period. Philippine politics and governance is sick, that is as obvious as obvious can be. But will this Jun Lozada scandal be the catalyst for the great changes that need to be made? Ha! Great changes will be done in this society through small ways and on a person to person basis. Paradigm shifts don’t happen through Senate hearings. Trust me, this “moral revolution” WILL NOT be televised.
Do I think corruption should be addressed? Yes. Do I think getting rid of Gloria will solve this issue? No. Do I agree with JDV that a moral revolution in government should be pursued? Yes. But will that revolution come from Senate and from Congress or from JDV himself. Hell no. Parehong baboy silang lahat. So that’s why I’m ignoring the politics and protests. And judging by their sad rally last week (Please. Makati Business Club, Black and White Movement, Cory Aquino et al. More people attended the Beyonce concert than your rally), I think others are too.
A senior citizen, My Life in the Philippines, is ambivalent about removing the President from office but for different reasons:
I consider GMA having lost the “Moral Authority” to continue on as President until Yr2010. Granting PGMA credit for a resurging Philippine Economy does not justify Moral Bankrupcy. While our kind of Democracy has made ours a “Country-of-Laws” (where Public Issues ought to be decided in the heirarchy of our Courts), a collective judgement of a fully-informed Citizenry (by a Free Press) in the Court-of-Public Opinion does carry a strong moral value.
…On the other hand, I believe: (1st) That People Power I & II have not brought about a “Better Philippines”. I consider “Graft & Corruption,et.al” as an Ethical Problem which have not and could not be remedied by street-mandated Political Solutions – i.e. People Power Change-of-Presidents; (2nd) That the Church (visibly represented by the Religious Priest & Nuns in the Streets, in Congress, in the Courts) have failed in its Pastoral Work of enlightening and encouraging Political Leaders to move away from the evil of Greed-for-Money – thus necessitating “Graft & Corruption”.
…Given all of the above, I contend that it would be good for our country for PGMA to continue in office until Yr2010. But, she must take the lead for all in Public Office in a “Moral Crusade for Good Government”. She (together with all who would follow her example) could redeem herself/themselves in the Public Eye and erase all doubts about “Hidden Wealth” by a public demonstration of giving-up 90% of their respective Family’s Private Wealth accumulated during their entire Political Career. I liken this “Moral Crusade” to a “National Cleansing” following the Korean Example – not too long ago.
The senior citizen blogger isn’t alone: UST student james_cartmire says something similar:
i got into some debate though when i opened that my position, no matter where investigations lead, was for gma to definitely finish her term in 2010. i said that even if everything leads to impeachment, the impeachment process, being a political process, will just muddle and broker ties with old faces, further preventing genuine reform efforts, and that the whole gma vendetta might even ruin the promise of a new start in 2010. i also echoed what neri purportedly said (based on the supposed lozada document i received trhough mail) that an impeachment buzz would just increase government spending (i.e. malacañang diverting public funds to buy out representatives, opinion leaders and power brokers) and that all these crises could lead to another economic slump. after almost breaking to a 39-level before the nbn hearing resumed, just yesterday, the peso-dollar exchange rate was again P41 to $1.
And so, some are ambivalent about resignation or People Power (see paperchimes.net). Or the Catholic Church: Brown SEO asks some tough questions, as does Philippine Commentary opposes People Power. On the other hand, Ceci Da Supastar reproduces the soul-searching appeal of a member of the Left, who says they can’t afford to miss the bus again:
Why should we work with them? Because we all want the same short term goals, which are the end of the GMA administration, the reform of a corrupt system, and free and fair elections. We may disagree on our broad ideologies, but we agree that these are the immediate obstacles to our various long term goals.
But, perhaps more importantly, if there is anything we should have learned from our EDSA experiences, it is that we want bargaining chips when this is all over so that we can influence the future. And those bargaining chips only come in the form of weight of our participation and the numbers we draw.
And yet… Lunasandwich says people are increasingly interested, but still stumped on what to do:
I take this as a good sign, of the keen interest of the people to know how others feel or think about the issue. What has really struck me though is the disenchantment and shared distrust for almost all people in government…
It seems the enormity of the problem — graft and corruption (which does not end with Arroyo’s removal from office) and the deeply rooted social malaise — is not lost on the people. Sadly, while the problem has long been identified, at the moment, people still seem to be at loss on what to do.
Marvelous photos of the Senate hearings taken by Bro. Ceci of La Salle: Ceci’s Corner.
And here’s something eloquent by Yogon Multiplies: let’s remember to do the small stuff, too. lovelife?! – eto self supporting! ^_^ writes about school pride.
Thank you to the reader who sent me a copy of this paper: The Integrity of Corrupt States: Graft as an Informal State Institution by Keith Darden. Interesting abstract:
This article argues that corrupt practices such as bribery and embezzlement, which scholars have previously assumed to be evidence of the breakdown of the state, may reinforce the state’s administrative hierarchies under certain conditions. Drawing on a cross-national analysis of 132 countries and a detailed examination of the informal institutions of official graft in Ukraine, the article finds that where graft is systematically tracked, monitored, and granted by state leaders as an informal payment in exchange for compliance, it provides both an added incentive to obey leaders’ directives and the potent sanction of criminal prosecution in the event of disobedience. Where graft is informally institutionalized in this way, it provides the basis for state organizations that are effective at collecting taxes, maintaining public order, and repressing political opposition but that may undermine the development of liberal politics.
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Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 2:40 pm
Hi mlq3,
From your above write up regarding Lunasandwich’s concern
This needs to be seriously discussed and analyzed. While the events of our nation seem to be speeding up, civil society yet have to discuss the safety net of ANY possible post-administration collapse.
The social political leeches looking for an opening to exploit our country further, whatever their persuasion, should not be allowed to sit in governance ever again. At the very least an excellent third party check and balance system must be established outside the confines of government power and politics.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 2:48 pm
whatever happens, whether GMA be removed or not, we must not accept ANY old face as our leaders again. i can even go and vote for fr.ed for president going by his track record as governor of pampanga.
i could only count by the handful politicians who are worthy of their office. and not one of them is a senator or a congressman. two are governors, four are mayors, and a few are city councilors.
Blackshama on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 2:52 pm
If we don’t want to see the ancien regime once more, we should opt for revolution.
The Equalizer on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 3:08 pm
¡Basta Ya! ( Enough is Enough!)
It’s Time To Say ENOUGH!
As if the spins, half-truths and outright falsehoods of the spin doctors were not enough.
As if the lies about the Hello Garci scandal were not enough.
As if the switching of the ballot boxes in the Batasan was not enough.
As if the squandering of billions of pesos in a litany of scandals since 2001 was not enough.
As if the shroud of secrecy that binds this administration was not enough.
As if the violations of human rights and the disappearance of Jonas Burgos and many others were not enough.
As if the gross neglect of the very poor (except on election time) by this administration was not enough.
As if the Palace bribery of congressmen and governors was not enough.
As if the kleptocracy of Jose Pidal was not enough.
Now ,after all that, we have the abduction of Jun Lozada and the subsequent cover-up .
Now we have had enough!
WE,FINALLY,HAD ENOUGH!
¡Basta Ya!
Bal(t)imoron on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 3:14 pm
If ZTE is like Watergate, then a word to the wise: don’t castrate the government too well, or it will invite a reaction. And, beware of the younger ones, especially the defense ministers and chiefs of staff!
magdiwang on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 3:24 pm
Wow!!! You guys are talking already of a post GMA scenario here. It seems like the only acceptable thing is for GMA to be ousted. Do you really think GMA is the source of all what is wrong in our society?? Mark this post, if GMA is overthrown there will be more problems and all of you guys/gals are back posting lamenting the fact the the new powers that be have hijack the new government without implementing real reforms.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 3:24 pm
blackshama, would you go as far as a revolution as bloody as france’s?
i’ve always held that only by destroying every vestiges of the current phils can we create a new one.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 3:32 pm
magdiwang, there won’t be any hijacking if snap elections are called. erase all the leaders we have till now and vote NEW ones in. erase the comelec we have now and put credible people in. then have snap elections. worried abt where to get the budget? there’s some sitting prettily at the president’s discretionary fund right now, plus some hefty pork barrel earmarked for the thieves this fiscal year. worried abt a junta? as long as all of us are united, people power will make those generals think twice. that or we face civil war. which is more the merrier for us. much more so if the war gets drawn out for years.
let filipinos then fight for the phils they truly want. then let’s see if after that filipinos still don’t have a sense of country.
Jon Mariano on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 3:43 pm
Gloria’s resignation is also acceptable. She might just see it as for the good of the country. (eyes rolling).
magdiwang on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 3:49 pm
I really admire your optimism in our society. Im also for the ideal scenario but Im a little bit more realistic. Whoever will be president will not get the necessary reforms implemented. There are just too much powerful interest groups to contend with. Short of a cultural revolution, nothing will change. We should work within the system to achieve the necessary reforms. This might be slow and protracted but it is the only alternative IMHO that is less disruptive to our fragile economy.
CecDaSupastar on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 4:03 pm
Everyone please be advised: Rumor has it that GMA is planning on bribing local officials to stage a fake rally in her favor on the EDSA anniversary, Feb. 25. She wants people to believe that she still has the support of the silent majority. Let’s spread the word and not be fooled by yet another tactic of bribery and lies!
I agree that what we have learned especially from EDSA II is that changing the president is not enough; there must also be some basic institutional changes. It is the system itself that is broken, it allows corruption and limits the space with which good people can work to bring benefits to everyone.
Thus, the answer is a movement to not only remove GMA, but to institute an agenda of reforms that fix elections and corruption in the bureaucracy.
Jeg on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 4:20 pm
Speaking of post-GMA scenarios: Please, when we succeed and GMA steps down, for the love of all that’s holy, DONT celebrate. This isnt a victory. It means we failed yet again to make this work. It means for the past 7 years, good citizens did nothing and just shrugged their shoulders when GMA’s administration started abusing its powers.
jhay on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 4:25 pm
The Palace has started the ‘Revenge of the Sith’ as the PNP filed a perjury charge against Jun Lozada’s wife while the Bastusan Pambansa comtemplates stripping the Church and religious groups who become involved in politics of their tax privileges.
tess on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 4:30 pm
Jeg, totally agree with you. Very sad really. She has to go, and she will go.
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 4:37 pm
Carlos Celdran’s (Walk this Way) blog entry demonstrates how too much skepticism leads to a breakdown in one’s moral compass.
Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 4:42 pm
Moreover, we must be careful even of the currently “good” leaders we might have. A third-party check and balance system must be established to prevent the failure of post EDSA II government from repeating again and discourage new officials from “backsliding” into the old ways of corruption and abuse of power.
Not only Gloria and a lot of her cabinet failed; even Senator Joker Arroyo who for the longest time I used to consider as a true patriot and defender of human rights failed. The lack of adequate third-party check and balances may be the reason for this; or maybe its simply his choice.
Check out my link with new article and photo: Trying to understand Joker Arroyo, “to be a Vader or not to be a Vader, that is the question…”
Mike on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:13 pm
The problem with a revolution, Blackshama & Devils, is that once you start it, no one controls it. We could end up like France…or we could end up like Cambodia.
john marzan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:13 pm
carlos celdran:
i think celdran is channeling austero. why call on them to commit suicide when it’s the arroyo administration who has betrayed our public trust and abused it’s power?
John Christian Canda on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:16 pm
It’s too bad that we don’t have politicians in the mould of America’s paleoconservatives Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, and Duncan Hunter.
John Christian Canda on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:21 pm
To borrow from a Pat Buchanan 2000 campaign ad, “Team Unity and Genuine Opposition are for sale.”
Nick on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:24 pm
The question then becomes if The People want to exact their power. And because there lacks the moral authority on both sides, the indecision of the people is the result.
Nick on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:26 pm
Revolution cannot take place if there lacks moral authority because for it to happen, there must be a stark contrast from the before and to the after. If Noli is the after, is this really a revolution?
John Christian Canda on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:28 pm
It seems that the Arroyo Administration and the Opposition are both sides of the same coin. But let’s hope that there are still a few good men and women from both sides of the political fence.
benign0 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:32 pm
“Short of a cultural revolution, nothing will change. We should work within the system to achieve the necessary reforms. This might be slow and protracted but it is the only alternative”
Actually this is a solution that hasn’t been tried yet. Only because the more POPULAR options has always been Fiesta Revolution (the EASY path is always the preferred choice of people who are short on IMAGINATION).
Floyd Buenavente on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:49 pm
On the cynical side I bet we still need more bloodshed and more bombings before everybody realize the kind of government they replaced Estrada with. Of course there will be more flat denials or in the words of Freud defining Defense Mechanism per-se:
* Denial: Refusal to accept external reality because it is too threatening; arguing against an anxiety provoking stimuli by stating it doesn’t exist; resolution of emotional conflict and reduce anxiety by refusing to perceive or consciously acknowledge the more unpleasant aspects of external reality.
* Distortion: A gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs.
* Delusional Projection: Grossly frank delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature.
Seems like Joker Arroyo is reeling with one or all of them. ^_^
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 5:57 pm
Benign0, they tried a ‘cultural revolution’ in China. See where that led them.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 6:06 pm
that’s the fun part you see. at least we’re giving our country a 50-50 odds of going away like france
and is our country’s state today any less diff than cambodia? take away all the facade, our country is exactly like cambodia.
besides, i have more faith in the filipino people than you. that’s why im willing to gamble on a bloody revolution. it’s total change or bust
Danielle on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 6:41 pm
I hope you’re not serious about wanting a revolution because that’s the last thing the country needs. Any change must be through peaceful means.
On a lighter note, I was watching Wheel of Fortune (Kris Aquino’s) and Jun Lozada’s name was used as a clue.
benign0 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 6:47 pm
Fearless forecast:
I see this whole addiction to Edsa “revolutions” as something that will keep on spiralling — the periods in between these circuses getting shorter and shorter.
At some point a president will come along — a veteran of several of these — who will know enough to use a HEAVY hand to crush any form of “revolution” violently if necessary.
Maybe Gloria is this president.
Walang sisihan. Pinoys, and our silly addiction to this fantasy called “people power” asked for this.
benign0 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 6:48 pm
“Benign0, they tried a ‘cultural revolution’ in China. See where that led them”
The Philippines is NOT China, in case you haven’t noticed.
Darwin on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 6:52 pm
I was talking to a friend earlier today about what to do given the increasing public anger over the ZTE scandal.
My idea basically is this: all of us turn up the heat, not just on GMA, Neri and the Cabinet, but also on our congressmen so that they’re compelled to impeach GMA later this year when the ban expires. Yes, I know they’re crooks too. But if we do it well enough and they realize that their re-elections are at stake, the optimist in me thinks it can work.
When GMA is impeached, we can ask the Senate to make sure the trial lasts for a few years to prevent Noli for assuming the Presidency (and have the benefit of running for the Presidency as an incumbent in 2010). They can convict her maybe shortly before the campaign period starts in February 2010.
This way we not only expel the Malacañang mafia, we also prevent a Noli presidency. The best part is, if we stick to the Constitutional processes, I do not think our economic growth would be adversely affected. And our people will not have to suffer as much from having been again betrayed by its leaders.
What do you guys think?
Mike on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 6:59 pm
Is this a good thing, Benigs? It’s fine if that person’s a Lee Kwan Yew…but if it’s a Somoza? a Noriega? an Idi Amin? Does clamoring for good governance merit this kind of “leader”?
The Ca t on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:10 pm
It’s no brainer. That simple.
Mita on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:19 pm
Saw the news report with this “walk” and laughed at the possible conversation between the president and sec. neri…
Neri: hawak na kita sa leeg ngayon…YOU will do as I say…
Gloria: tumahimik ka na jan…ginagawa ko na nga lahat ng hiningi mo!
Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:32 pm
Somebody is still addicted to heavy handed mailed fist dictatorships
benign0 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:40 pm
“Is this a good thing, Benigs? It’s fine if that person’s a Lee Kwan Yew…but if it’s a Somoza? a Noriega? an Idi Amin? Does clamoring for good governance merit this kind of “leaderâ€?”
I didn’t say it is a “good thing”. I’m just saying that we may have it coming.
Where do you see this string of street “revolutions” leading to? If another one comes along that is successful, that will simply make Pinoys more addicted to it.
And we all wonder why corruption is so rampant in Pinoy society. It’s because by its ver inherent nature, Pinoys are ADDICTED to shortcuts and instant gratification.
benign0 on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:42 pm
If Gloria were as shrewd as I think she is and knowning now in hindsight what complacency in the face of growing unrest can mean for an incumbent (ask Marcos and Erap), I’d say the thing to do would be to quell this forcefully asap.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:55 pm
A look at the bigger picture – the Chinese Connection.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybz8M1TRc6o
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KYrTXK2pKE
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcQaa6IUiR0
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdImiG0lFgk
Mike on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:55 pm
You’re right, Benigs. She’s been Marcosian so far, so we may be in for another 20 years of GMA rule, courtesy of a little bit of Martial Law.
Or not. She’s gotta do what she’s gotta do, and we’ve gotta do what we’ve gotta do.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 7:59 pm
benigno/mike,
My God, you guys are scary. Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious – are we prepared to be vicious?
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:00 pm
I don’t think we should rule out the scenario that Benign0 is proposing. After all, someone did say that Gloria is ‘evil’ (which Benign0 considers as being ’shrewd’).
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:02 pm
mike,
Haven’t you noticed? We are already under Martial Law! Look at all the familiar check points (choke points), arbitrary detention cases, disappearances, illegal raids, wire tapping, surveillance. Democracy is an illusion expertly weaved by the powers that be.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:10 pm
An eerily familiar scene. They must have the same choreographer, but where is the suntok sa ere ala Erap?
DJB Rizalist on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:14 pm
People Power is the legislative and political process in a direct democracy. We have a representative democracy, a very different sort of thing. People power is like av-gas in a cigarette lighter. It gets the cigarette lit along with the frontal lobe areas. It is elitist not because of the elites that take part, but because of vanishingly small fractions of people actually needed to accomplish regime change. At Edsa Dos it only required One Guy who happened to be wearing the Black Robe Costume of the Chief Justice. But what exactly was his authority to be there and not presiding at the Impeachment Trial? Haha! Edsa Dos wasn’t even “People Power”! It was a putsch by Davide.
There has only been one real People Power. I salute that. But like being born, we really should do revolution only rarely in a nation’s life. Lifetime revolution is for the other kind of religious fanatics–Jomaoists!
I oppose people power now because we have a marvelous chance to set everything right by doing what we failed to do in 2001: impeach and convict a President.
Remember folks there is a HANGING Senate. A House impeachment move is sure to end in conviction and victory for those who sign on to it. Nov 15, 2008 is the 7th anniversary of Erap’s impeachment. Let JDV get Lakas to decide whether they want to go down in flames with kampi in 2010!
December 7, 2008 would be a good day to start an impeachment trial and ship the whole Supreme Court to the Senate during the trial where the Sgt at Arms can keep an eye on them!
Mita on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:17 pm
I don’t think that scenario is going to happen naman…wala nang communist threat eh. People and the international community won’t take it naman…hanggang 2010 lang.
Here’s a really grim scenario: invasion by a foreign power.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:21 pm
DJB Rizalist,
Strangely enough, I cannot help but agree with you on this one. Lets try IMPEACHMENT again, this time lets do a better one. If that fails, lets try again. I cannot bear the thought of another extra-judicial ejection, a mob can easily run awry and uncontrollable, I cannot imagine putting friends and brothers alike in harms way.
Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:21 pm
Some have forgotten some other historical events in history … What would have happened if East German state police and soldiers clashed with their civilians during the fall of the Berlin Wall; or if the civilians have fomented a violent revolution while they tear down the Berlin wall?
I understand however that there is a possibility that great violence may break out and but it would not come from the civilians (of course this evil administration, following the Marcosian doctrine, can put in “moles” and “agent provocateur” among the protesters to instigate violence from their ranks but that is another story); that is the reason why prayer, reflection and ultimately correct reflected action is necessary.
It is not only meant for humbly requesting from our Supreme Creator for deliverance and protection from this evil in society, it is also meant to ask for guidance to realize the right moves in specific situations. This is the way towards practicing true communion, unlike the present day physical communions (using bread and wine) which have become routine habits to some and have lost its true meaning to others.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:24 pm
Mita,
Check out the you tube videos (7:55). We are already under invasion, with consent pa. While we are busy fighting each other, we are weakening by the day.
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:29 pm
DJB, your comment above meanders across different positions:
1. first you criticize people power,
2. then you say what happened in EDSA Dos was not people power,
3. then you salute EDSA (1986) as the only People Power,
4. then you discourage any repeat of people power and conflate advocates of People Power with the communists
5. then you oppose people power because of what happened in EDSA Dos which (you first said was not people power.)
Please clarify, thanks.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:32 pm
kabayan,
By EDSA, I mean the peaceful redress of grievances, by all means lets continue. What I fear is the possibility of a violent end as our sitting president is no Marcos nor Erap – she may not have the restraint for shooting down people which is typical of those who have no experience in the martial lore.
At times, the most dangerous people are those who have never been in a fight, they have others fight for them, as they will not have any qualms of hurting others.
ace on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:35 pm
” A House impeachment move is sure to end in conviction and victory for those who sign on to it.” -DJB Rizalist
Why would the house majority allow an impeachment of GMA? The mere threat of a people power will not make them change their minds and an actual people power makes the impeachment moot and academic.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:41 pm
One obstacle we need to overcome inorder for impeachment to have a chance though – the congressmen. Is it at all possible to dissolve congress first? The way I see it, as long as they can close ranks, use their numbers, the battle is won even without the conflict. These guys are Sun Tzu enthusiasts without being aware of it.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:43 pm
DJB,
I never really found out. Are you anti-GMA? or just anti-EDSA? or anti everything with the red motif?
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:46 pm
Ramrod, i don’t think the Constitution provides a mechanism for dissolving Congress.
Karlo Mikhail on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:51 pm
Woe to the nation that does not raise its voice save in a funeral, that shows esteem only at the grave, that waits to rebel until its neck is under the edge of the sword.
–Khalil Gibran, The Nine Woes
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:52 pm
FOR LAWYERS ONLY (and those who like to peek)
Why impeachment is not necessary. This article changed my mind about it, check it out.
http://www.senpinglacson.proboards83.com/index.cgi?board=investigation&action=display&thread=1203511056&page=1#1203511056
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:54 pm
cvj,
It might help if we fine tuned our approach some more. Like taking away their power base, congress and local government, or at least weakening it.
Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:18 pm
ramrod wrote:
True, Gloria has never been in a real firefight seeing real wounds and real dead people, that makes her simply decide willy-nilly on the value of life and scoff at the results of real suffering. She has insulated (or was insulated at the beginning) from the pain and suffering of a real war. I agree, this makes her doubly dangerous. At least grudgingly I admit that Marcos had experienced the rigors and horrors of battle and witnessed the suffering of the families of the dead and wounded.
Sometimes when people say something about “lets go to war (as in a gunfight)” to settle differences, I just smile wryly since obviously they really don’t know what they’re talking about. “Rambo” and a lot of glorified war heroes make it look enjoyable and easy, but what they never really focus on the movie is what the family of the dead “enemy” went through after their breadwinner got cut up by a supposed Hollywood “hero”.
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:21 pm
Ramrod, as far as weakening GMA’s power base, on the legal front, what i can think of is for someone to file a case in the Supreme Court that removes the prerogative of disbursing pork barrel funds from the Executive on the grounds that it compromises the independence of Congress and the principle of Separation of Powers. Hopefully, that would make for a more independent Congress.
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:24 pm
Now would also be an opportune time to revive our hosts previous suggestion of a nationwide signature campaign to shorten the President’s (and Vice-President’s) term of office. It would be a genuine People’s Initiative.
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:28 pm
I’m referring to Manolo’s suggestion of Institutionalizing People Power:
http://www.quezon.ph/?p=875
ace on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:35 pm
“On Wednesday, one of the President’s economic advisers referred to her as the “luckiest b*tch around” during a forum attended by businessmen and business leaders.
“Alam naman nating lahat at alam naman ni Presidente na masuwerte siya. [She] may be a b*tch but she’s the luckiest b*tch around,†said Albay Gov. Joey Salceda.
The off-tangent remark, which Salceda acknowledged as a joke, was made as he discussed economic growth issues at the Ateneo Center for Economic Research and Development.” – ABS-CBNnews
Mickey and Dato will surely be offended with this joke, they will jokingly be called sons of the _________.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:37 pm
ace,
I hope someone got a video of that, that would make a nice ring tone!
ace on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:40 pm
ram,
something to look forward to…
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:43 pm
“Institutionalizing People Power” hmmmm, I wonder why we didn’t pick up on this?
Edwin on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:47 pm
EDSA Dos was filled with Bands and Free Drinks and Goldilocks. Who wouldnt go for free booze and entertainment? I went there. I drank san mig lite and ate goldilocks for free, so does my friends kaya nga kami pumunta eh. Nakikishout na lang ng Erap resign!
Kung ganyan din ba ang mangyayare sa susunod na rally e d mas maraming pupunta.
Ideology my ass. We were having fun for free. Pakikibaka sa korupsyon came later.
rego on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 9:51 pm
“Where do you see this string of street “revolutions†leading to? If another one comes along that is successful, that will simply make Pinoys more addicted to it.”
=====================================================
This is the reason why I dont like snap election, resignation and peopel initiative at all. Just like peopel power, his can set a really bad precedent that pinoys will be addicted to. Not to mention manipulation of some politicians or even businesmen and the church for their self serving interest.
Gloria should be allowed to finished her term until 2010 or remove her through impeachment.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:00 pm
Edwin,
That was just you. Not all people are like you, you know, some are responsible and most have faces to match.
Mike on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:00 pm
Ramrod:
Hmmmm! Interesting angle: usurpation of public office.
Well, I’m all for bringing her to justice via constitutional means. It’s when these avenues have been subverted (e.g., impeachment impossible due to purchased loyalty of congressmen; investigation hobbled by questionable E.O. 464; Ombudsman compromised by personal loyalty) that People Power becomes a last alternative for expressing outrage against misgovernance.
Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:09 pm
ace wrote: (regarding Salceda’s description of Gloria)
On one description that she’s “lucky”, maybe, but luck tends to run out. For the other description, I would not debate with Salceda on that.
The siRaulo in DOI said that Neri should resign because Neri never denied saying that Gloria was evil. He simply said he just could not remember. I’d like to see how Grand Inquisitor siRaulo would handle Salceda’s statement.
Kabig ng dibdib ba Gov. Salceda?
hvrds on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:09 pm
The American Jihadist makes a lot of sense. If one wants to strengthen representative government you start by going through the institutional process of removing the President. She has to be separated from the Office of the President.
In the U.S. a president can pardon a suspected criminal even before one is charged.
In the Philippines high government officials should be tried till they get convicted or acquited.
Every one poor and powerwill be good for the political full should be held to account.
The process itself will be good for the political economy.
The one lesson that Philippine culture will have to learn and absorb is accountability and being held to account.
The is essentially critical for the micro-minority that is the middle class who are predominantly centrists and right of center rightists.
The left is still trying to recover from Jomaism and they can supply the mass base for effect.
For the Catholic Church, the perfect storm that induced Sin to call out for people to go to Edsa for Edsa I was sorely lacking in Edsa II. Sin stretched the pretext to push for Eraps resignation. For a short time the theocrats decided Eraps faith.
Justice Puno’s decision in declaring that Edsa II was a simple matter of removal of the Chief Executive by people power and was intra constitutional is still hard to take.
Erap had no business being a President but his removal destroyed the constitutional process. Big Mike and GMA simply deepened and broadened the destruction of constitutional processes. They both propagated the theocrats by even establishing a office for religious affairs. They created their own cabal of mullahs and ayatollahs. Now everyone is competing to get their own mullahs and ayatollahs to lead a mass movement. The taste and flavor of Edsa II has turned sour. A more critical eye has been focused on Edsa I. Edsa I primarily responsible for the return of democratic space. The economic mismanagement continues unabated. The country is now almost totally dependent on the export of human resource to keep the economic accounts in positive balance. It is obviously not sustainable as the previous economic problems have seriously undermined the capacities of governance that has turned the Philippines into a cannibal state. Every man and family is out for himself and themselves. When state institutions fail man will revert to his natural state. Self preservation and the kanya kanya system becomes the ideological model.
The U.S. constitution implicitly upheld racism and slavery for almost a hundred years. The U.S. still is ideologically working itself out of that doctrine.
In the Philippines the theocratic influence of religion is still dominant in political discourse.
This time organizing a mass movement to push for reforms is the perfect vehicle for pushing for another impeachment process.
The Philippine constitution needs desperate reworking. It has been seriously compromised.
It is clear from the photographs above that the military and police have now achieved cabinet status. Erap’s walk did not have a military police component.
Yesterday Ambassador Kenny was photographed with MILF Head Murad.
In parts of Mindanao the Philippine State has almost disappeared.
UP n student on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:11 pm
The mechanism for putting a new set of faces simultaneously into Congress and Malacanang is well-defined. Elections!
UP n student on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:12 pm
Kung parliamentary na ang Pilipinas, hindi na kailangan ang snap election by the people — vote of “no confidence†by the honorable members of parliament na lang ang kailangan. A motion of no confidence is a parliamentary motion traditionally put before a parliament by the opposition in the hope of defeating or embarrassing a government.
Ngayon, to prevent crises of the state by ensuring that whoever is head of government has enough support to govern, siguro kailangan kopyahin ng Pinas-parliamentary ay ang mother-country Spain which use “Constructive Motion of No Confidenceâ€. In Spain (also Israel and Germany), a vote of No Confidence requires that the opposition, on the same ballot, propose a candidate of their own whom they want to be appointed as successor by the respective head of state.
rego on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:13 pm
“Institutionalizing People Power†hmmmm, I wonder why we didn’t pick up on this?”
Actually everything else di not pick up, di ba? . If you back since very start of these scandal an dami ng suggestion s at advocacies na lumabas. So many groups has been form and so many ideas good or bad came. did any one of them picked up at all?
One reason I see is that there is no credible leader at all on those advocacies that came out.
So who will lead these institunalization proces of people power. Manolo? Nope, I cannot even stomach most of his very biased writings and entry on this blog. I dont think he is capable of leading any movement or advocies for now. He should demonstrate some form of objectivity and maturity first before he canbe a leader.
If there is one that really picked up , its the sucessful demolition of each other. Yes ,the mudslinging was so sucesfull to the extent that we are now having difficulty in identifying who is credidle and who is not. One that will be acceptabel; to both side and to the majority of the people. The anti Gloria her will be very quick to point finger at Gloria who destroyed the gevernment institutions but actually they too is very much guilty of such destruction .
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:17 pm
mike,
Thats why this fight should have been fought on many fronts, not just in the arena of public opinion. We may enjoy ridiculing Gloria or any of her goons but whats that going to achieve “sticks and stones…”
I’m still hoping that the opposition will come up with a real united effort in effectively removing Gloria without us having to play around with the “mob phenomenon,” as what the end will look like if we have a build up of outraged people and the government’s unpredictable response.
There is a way if we really put our heads together, one is charging her of usurpation, take out the doctored election returns, follow the paper trail, the “hello garci” should have been thought through.
Another front would be her power base, congress, and local government, these should be neutralized. All of us, per district, per municipality – lets bang on the doors of our respective congressman, mayor, even governor!
Revisit EO464! Is that something the senate-in-aid-of legislation can get into?
Why not take a look at Manolo’s “Institutionalizing People Power?”
Also, another EDSA type removal of the sitting president may not put us in good light with the international community, whether we like it or not we live in a global community.
People Power need not be a bad word, really, can we change it to Filipino Power.
ace on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:18 pm
Two bicolanos on the side of GMA, one is joker, the other one is joking.
UP n student on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:26 pm
Make the Presidential Term to be every 3 years (and no person can be chief-of-state for more than 6 years, combined).
Or even more “institutionalizing of people power” is to make the Presidential Term to be every 2 years (6 years as President, max).
Not good enough??? Make the term 1 year!
cvj on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:30 pm
UPn, have you read Manolo’s suggestion?
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:32 pm
rego,
Manolo will not think of leading at this time and one has to make a stand on something. There’s no such thing as objectivity unless you view life as a theoretical existence. You have to cast your lot somewhere.
For me, all these unpleasantries are just smoke clouding real life threatening issues – real lives that are threatened really. The end result I’m looking at is the release of those arbitrarily detained, abducted and still missing, a solution the street children, street people issue, hungry people I pass by everyday living under a bridge, poor sick people the hospitals had to push away because they had nothing to pay with plus hospitals without any meaningful equipment and medicine. If I had the power to disburse 500K without batting an eyelash, it would go a long, long way. But as it is, I have no resource of that kind.
So I’m open to suggestions short of storming the palace and dragging Gloria out by the hair – I don’t want that either. But we need to hurry, peoples’ lives are at stake!
DuckVader on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:35 pm
And we all wonder why corruption is so rampant in Pinoy society. It’s because by its ver inherent nature, Pinoys are ADDICTED to shortcuts and instant gratification.
——————-
Funnies thing I’ve read in a longtime — about corruption. And where’s the basis for the statement that we are addicted to shortcuts and instant gratification? And what is the cause?
rego on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:36 pm
Babala? Yet another group has just sprouted. But look who is doing the talking? Leticia Ramos Shahani? Credible ba sya? I dont think so. Just like teh others lam ko na kung saan hahantong ang grupong eto.
Makes me wonder ? bakit kaya hindi na lang mag stick sa iisang grupo ang mga eto. Isisa langnaman ng Puntirya at gustong mangyari. Ang mapaalis si Gloria sa Malacanang. Why not just joing Grand Alliance Agaisnt Gloria. Or simply just join United Opposition?
Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:40 pm
By his actions, I do not trust FVR
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:47 pm
United Opposition. I pray that it becomes a description not just a group’s name. Have we ever had one? The need for a united, singular effort is there, but some choose to splinter.
The reality on the ground is that we are being invaded by foreign forces already, area in focus – Spratleys. While we are busy going at each others throats, we are losing our sovereignty. That is real…
nash on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:51 pm
I wonder at what point in time did China begin ignoring The Analects.
Here we have a wonderful treatise on leadership and good governance and yet we cannot say that the Chinese take them to heart knowing how corrupt and immoral their business dealings with Burma, Somalia, Zimbabwe (to name a few) are…
UP n student on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:53 pm
cvj:
The mechanism for putting a new set of faces simultaneously into Congress and Malacanang is well-defined. Elections!
I humbly believe that my proposal: elections every 3 years to be superior to the PeopleInitiative documentation process proposed in Manolo’s “Institutionalization of People Power”.
Mine is so much easier to understand (by fishermen in Jolo, farmers in Negros, labanderas in Batac, and yes, the population of metro-Manila) that it — elections every two years — allows better participation by the population.
Just think again between “garci” and today and you have… every 3 years.
UP n student on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:59 pm
Mine is also geared towards getting the process done better — getting the vote out from all communities of the country, by any and all (not just those who have the level of sophistication and the time for “people initiative” paper flows). And the Honasan-wannabes can’t say “but it takes too long to get the Malacanang trespasser out!!!”.
There is also a minor detail of UncleSam money being offered so that the Philippines can get the votes counted fast and correctly, maybe it can be used to buy ZTN equipment.
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 11:05 pm
USELESS, USELESS
Whatever we say or do, Gloria will not leave the palace, she can’t, she believes that she is ordained by God!
Watch this if you don’t believe me…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYwF88arI64
Kabayan on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 11:13 pm
ramrod said:
Yes and I think the self proclaimed Son of God, Quibuloy, said she’s “heaven mandatedâ€(***canned laughter***)
ramrod on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 11:24 pm
If indeed Gloria believes in Quiboloy’s preachings we are all in deep shit. She will listen to no one as she looks at us as lost, misguided souls, and that only she alone can lead us to the promise land, to bring us closer to God! Hey, Quiboloy said God told him personally? So whatever she does, she has is insured safe conduct pass through the pearly gates already!
Honestly, how can you reason with fanaticism?
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:14 am
yes. look at what two peaceful revolutions got us.
ang sinungkit ng matulin, walang kaabog-abog na tatapunin
di kasi pinaghirapan kaya di rin pinahalagahan.
ah oo, may mga naghirap sa unang EDSA. ilan sila samantalang lumabas lang ang milyon ng patapos na?
sa news clip kanina, pinakita ilang saglit flash back ng EDSA II. the people were chanting “Gloria, Gloria, Gloria!”
perhaps that got into Gloria’s brain and made her think the people there were really clamoring for her instead of just a change in leadership. anybody wag lang si erap.
the next revolution should not have us chanting names but ideals: PAGBABAGO! PAGBABAGO! PAGBABAGO!
to the admin: dnt worry, critical mass will be reached in 2010. have your heads ready.
Madonna on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:15 am
Wonder why Joey Salceda, governor of Albay and long-time supporter of Gloria uttered those words. Oppps. Freudian slip. He didn’t even bother apologizing afterwards. Trouble in Gloria’s camp. The pols are starting to smell opportunities for jumping ship.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:25 am
devils/madonna,
Watch this. Hindi na matatakot si Gloria, lakas ng kakampi niya…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYwF88arI64
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:26 am
devils/madonna,
Watch the video I posted (11:05) hindi na matatakot si Gloria, ang lakas ng kakampi niya!
supremo on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:27 am
ramrod,
‘So I’m open to suggestions short of storming the palace and dragging Gloria out by the hair – I don’t want that either. But we need to hurry, peoples’ lives are at stake!’
Take out the most vulnerable member of the Family.
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:31 am
sa unity walk ni erap, namataan ko si mar roxas. naks! erap man to the bitter end pala ‘tong si mr. palengke!
harinawa pagkatapos ng rebolusyon, wala sana akong makitang familiar faces sa bagong gobyerno. pls lng enrile, magpalibing ka na. simula martial law mo pa pinahihirapan ang bayan.
at least easily identifiable na kung sino ang ha-huntingin di ba? ULAP. Congress. GOCC heads.
make your list, check who’s naughty or nice. itaga mo sa bato. bastille is now truly, inevitable.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:39 am
Grabe. A video speaks a million words. And people were calling Trillanes, Lozada. et al messianic?
Gloria is worst, God directly saying she is the mandate of heaven?
If this is what we’re up against, devils scenario is looking more and more viable…
The Ca t on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:46 am
‘
Check your EQ. it is abnormally high. Better still cut your coffee intake.
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:47 am
walang rule of law dito sa pilipinas! binaboy na ni arroyo ang saligang batas ng pilipinas. putang inang rule of law yan! sino si doj sec. gonzales? boses na ng bayan ang nagsasalita! 70% na taong bayang ang ayaw kay arroyo! nagisilayas na mga mamamayan dahil sobrang katiwalian at mamamatay na lang tayo sa gutom kung maghahantay na lang sa gobyerno para mapabuti ang kalagayan ng ekonomiya!
Madonna on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:54 am
ramrod,
Nyahahaha… Nutter that Pastor C. Quiboloy! And Gloria kept on saying praise the Lord, praise the Lord when he was recounting his “vision”.
nash on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:55 am
@ramrod,
Oh my god, that video is hilarious! Akala ko walang tagapagmana sa trono ni Willie Almeda…..buti nalang meron sina Quiboloy at Fr. Suarez to continue entertaining us with voodoo.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:57 am
The Cat,
Look at the video posted 11:05, if you’re rational or a christian you’ll respond with shock. If not, you’re well, good thing you’re not in Pinas, but we need your help though.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:11 am
And we all wonder why corruption is so rampant in Pinoy society. It’s because by its ver inherent nature, Pinoys are ADDICTED to shortcuts and instant gratification.
=========================================================
No! We are led by LUNATICS in government! You want proof? Try a whole video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYwF88arI64
WillyJ on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:17 am
So Neri said he couldn’t remember saying GMA was evil, huh? Why on earth didn’t he just say outright that he never said that? Even though the spotlight was trained on him, surely he knows how to mince words properly (being Arreneow trained). But I guess its safe to say safe answers. And that is the root of the problem in our society, where a spade is not called a spade.
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:23 am
ramrod, i did not just wake up one day and said to myself, wow, i’ll go post at manolo’s blog and be a doomsayer. my prediction takes events to its logical conclusion.
1. we are now at the point wherein groups previously divided over whether to give gma a chance or not are now coming closer to agreeing that 6 years is more than enough of a chance given her. and if she keeps harping on to give her more chance, we can wait till hell freezes over, giver her 10 or 20 years, but the fact still remains: she had those 6 years and she used them to enrich her family. how much more benefit of the doubt should we give her?
2. congress is now poised for charter change.
3. there is but one tiny chance (a sliver actually) that all anti-arroyo forces would actually agree on one post-gma scenario. critical mass would be reached agreeing GMA has to go. but that’s as far as unity goes.
4. comelec is still the palace’s lapdog.
5. congress would convene into a constituent assembly while the people are sleeping. lower house would unilaterally vote it doesn’t need the senate. wham-bham-ty. protest rallies would gather more fierce than ever to force the lower house to back down (like it did the last time).
6. the iron fist will now show itself, swipe away those rallies, swoop down on all comm stations (cellphone, internet, tv, radio – all down) gma will appear on govt owned TV, wearing red, warning all “destabilizers” that she will not allow this country to go to “communists” insurgents.
7. the new pinoy generation (post martial law babies) never having experienced martial law all cower in fear. martial law veterans are either dead or aging.
8. the “sham plebiscite” can now proceed. nothing beats success other than success, gma will think to herself as the new parliament is approved “overwhelmingly” by the filipino people.
9. we end 2009 with a whimper. those who kept harping on abt waiting for 2010 ate their words. wtf? too late!
10. now it becomes glaringly clear. the policy of human exportation has made this country a wasteland in more ways than one. all the best and brightest, gone. this is the land of the forsaken. and vultures are feasting at the seat of power. the poor and uneducated has not the will nor the capability to organize a resistance. but they feel hunger. and they are legion. and tnx to the catholic church, they multiply exponentially. all poor and uneducated.
11. 2010 marks the flight of the rest like bencard (who also ran at the eve of martial law). my prediction thus begins.
idk how many years, or how long the filipino people can take it. it took 300 years for spain, 17 years for marcos (correct me manolo if im wrong), 3 years for erap…
is the filipino people evolving out of their passive selves?
one thing is certain. and that is bastille at the hands of the hungry legion. for no one can stay and reason with a man who has devolved into man’s ulterior mode: survival of the fittest.
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:44 am
my story doesn’t end there of course.
that’s just the beginning. in his column today manolo said the worst options: social implosion and/or a filipino pol pot.
not removing gma today leads to that road eventually.
after the mob lynching, the revolutionaries would be divided into two groups. one advocating an end to bloodshed and restoration of democratic institutions, the other advocating more purges. the latter group carries the filipino pol pot.
civil war will rage.
the filipino diaspora is now complete. thousands become refugees.
luzon will become the stronghold of one group (more likely the pol pot group), visayas of the other group. mindanao breaks away and tribal wars start dividing that island into islamic states.
whoever wins in that civil war will not call themselves filipinos. the true filipinos have now become like the jews. no real place to call home.
now pray i am wrong.
cvj on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:45 am
Ramrod, that footage in April 25 2004 (where she says ‘Praise God…Praise God’) was just a few weeks before Hello Garci. Maybe her sense of being anointed gave her the stomach to go ahead with tampering with the election results.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:52 am
devils, cvj,
Strange, just tonight someone sent me this post:
“I really hope that I’m wrong but I think GMA has a contingency plan (an evil one) just in case a people power revolution materializes in Manila, she will flee to Mindanao(Davao in particular) and will force the issue using the Congressmen, Governors, Mayors including Quiboloy and his congregation. Even Mayor Duterte was quoted that they will secede from Luzon and the Visayas.
Last Sunday, Norberto Gonzales met with the governors of Mindanao in Cagayan de Oro city and to quote some excerpts from the Sun Star report( a Davao Newspaper):
“In the meeting, the governors agreed to assert their collective and individual authority to resist any unconstitutional and illegal moves to oust or force to resign President Arroyo.
Davao del Sur Governor Douglas Ra. Cagas, in a text message, said they agreed not to recognize in their respective provinces any “usurper†who benefits from the ouster of Arroyo.
It was Compostela Valley Governor Arturo “Chiongkee†Uy who revealed that Gonzales also discussed with them the possibility of the President staying in Davao region for a week to meet with Mindanaoan governors.
But he denied that Arroyo is seeking refuge here in Mindanao as anti-Arroyo sentiment in Metro Manila grows.
“Para lang daw makausap niya yung buong Mindanao officials. The governors of Mindanao also suggested that the President should put up a Malacañang of sort here.â€
This explains the Quiboloy connection.”
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:57 am
ramrod, gma would perish quicker in mindanao.
supremo on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:13 am
DevilsAdvc8,
GMA’s titles
The President of the Philippines
The Chosen One
The Resident Evil of Malacanan
Big Sister
The Filipino Pol Pot
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:44 am
“set-up”…buong arroyo regime and cronies na set-up!
official stand ng malacanyang…”set-up”….hahahaha…
ibig sabihin nila na na set-up sila ni mr.lozada? bobo naman nila! buti pa si neri, original…”i can’t remember”…at si gov. salceda, another arroyo man…”she’s the luckiest bitch around”…nothing funny at all…sana matakot tayong lahat baka ma set-up tayo!
UP n student on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:57 am
GMA as Pol Pot? Pol Pot was a leftist-to-the-Nth-degree whose propaganda of levelling the playing field and the classless society, when put to action, became not only humiliating but shoving bayonets and putting bullets into the middle-class and the rich. GMA as Pol Pot? I can not see her ordering the population of Alabang or the stockholders of San Miguel Beer to be marched to Payatas and there, bayonetted or buried alive.
UP n student on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:16 am
Unfortunately, a few people in this blogthread has not yet benefited na umaapaw, but … (music, please!!!):
And the money kept rolling out in all directions
:
…..
Now cynics claim a little of the cash has gone astray
But that’s not the point my friends
When the money keeps rolling out you don’t keep books
You can tell you’ve done well by
the happy grateful looks
Accountants only slow things down,
figures get in the way
Never been a lady loved as much as __
supremo on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:34 am
UP n student,
Most of the people buried in Pol Pot’s killing fields are not rich people. I also don’t believe that Pol Pot was a communist. He was just plain nuts.
nash on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:19 am
yeah I agree, there was nothing ‘leftist’ about pol pot, he was a psychopath…
mang_kiko on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:46 am
mayro-on nang Internecinesa manga Oligarhs. Si Mrs. JVD nag breakaway na, sinisisisi daw manga Oligarh na nagmidnight Cabinet pinagulohang nang Proxy Presidente FG, kaya pala daming Utang na Lo-ob si GMA. Yan isang Insider na nam. Sabi naman nang Palasyo sa-an ang EVIDENSIYA? ang galing talaga nang Palasyo Paulit paulit lang, tumatabla rin ang Tehcnique nila, dami rin nakumbinsi. Sin-o ba may sabi na kailangan Ulit-Ulitin mo lang, epektebo rin yon parang Placibo..
lakas_pinoy on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:53 am
GMA seeking refuge in Mindanao? From the frying pan to the fire! % :wink %
nash on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:44 am
JDV and moral renewal eklat. Sarili nga nyang distrito, hindi man makolekta basura at maayos ang kalsada. JDV hindi ka na national ‘leader’, umuwi ka na ng Pangasinan at ayusin mo sarili mong bakuran. Baon ni inam.
Karlo Mikhail on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:28 am
GMA seeking refuge in Mindanao?
In the event of an upheaval in the capital, its also plausible that GMA may seek refuge in Cebu City. Not only does it have the reputation of being “GMA country,” it also houses the Malakanyang sa Sugbo or the Malacañang in the South. Likewise, militant and civil society groups can barely mobilize a thousand here during “big” protests.
UP n student on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:42 am
I would agree if anyone praises Pol pot for efficiency. Of the thousands who entered is famous fields, less than 30 are known to have survived.
He was a damn cheapskate — most were executed with pickaxes to save bullets.
And his “chosen ones” included homosexuals (favorite of practically all liberators-with-moral-superiority), plus:
-professionals and intellectuals – in practice this included almost everyone with an education, or even people wearing glasses (which, according to the regime, meant that they were literate);
-ethnic Vietnamese, ethnic Chinese, Cambodian Christians, Muslims and the Buddhist monks;
- non-farmers : former urban dwellers (who had not starved to death in the first place) were deemed to be guilty of by virtue of their lack of agricultural ability;
-anyone with connections to the former government or with French, USA, UK, Vatican, Japan… any foreign government.
A PolPot running loose in Philippine politics will unite the country. There is no PolPot yet in a mayoral- or higher elected position in the Philippines.
UP n student on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:47 am
PolPot, in 1949 or 1950, joined the French Communist Party, the most tightly disciplined and orthodox Marxist-Leninist of Western Europe’s communist movements.
No, PolPot did not have a business degree from the University of California-San Diego nor an economics degree from Georgetown University/WashDC.
DJB Rizalist on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:48 am
Folks,
The fact is the People have always known the Truth, at least those beyond a certain age and below a certain income. But the Right to Know is vastly overrated and does not always lead to knowing the right thing to do. And even then, we are always seduced by the EASY thing to do, which usually involves throwing out the Constitution. As for the LEFT, that’s the ONLY thing they KNOW to do, or WANT to do: thrown out the Constitution. They don’t want democracy to work, because that is precisely their argument: that it cannot work. By rallying and pushing the situation to boiling point, they are the ones preventing the right thing from happening.
After Jun Lozada has so carefully built up a moral high ground from which to stand above the Palace and on which to rebuild our democracy, the people power diehards are pushing it all off a cliff with rallies and demos.
Better na nga the signature campaign of MLQ3. If only we valued our IDENTITIES enough to allow the govt to print cards proclaiming them, signatures might mean something. But no. the Organizers want us to use our BODIES instead of our BRAINS.
They want the People to be Mob, not a Movement.
The want People Power to be an Insurgency, not an Institution.
There already IS such an institution that enshrines, organizes, limits and deploys People Power, with the wisdom of many peoples, not just of those who claim to have invented it somehow in 1986.
It is called the Constitution, a magnificent plagiarism that those Barrio Mechanics refuse to treat a simple Social Contract and would rather construe it as Bible.
When I say impeachment, I also mean the impeachment of a Chief Justice, or at least, SOME Justice, say for bribery and corruption. It’s the only way to re-establish the SOLE and EXCLUSIVE power of the Congress of the People in the matter of Accountability of Public Officers. I remind you all, the Supreme Court has the largest number of such officers at 15.
In the Writs of amparo and habeas data, the Supreme Court Justices are all impeachable for culpable violation of the Constitution. In their defense they will have to prove that these WRITS are not NEW RIGHTS that they have established using constitutive power, contrary to the rule making power provision they used. They have to prove they have not increased, decreased or modified our substantive rights. yet in habeas data, I calculated they just gave 20,000+ consanguine and/or affine relatives of mine the RIGHT to KNOW my data. Also look it up. These are among the most corrupt instruments in courts all over south america.
They need a taste of People Power that they cannot strike down. For in Accountability, they have no Jurisdiction. Congress does.
One thing many people don’t know about the Supreme Court is that actually nothing is final there when it comes to “transcendental” cases. ANY past decision can be reversed by a future Supreme Court.
Estrada v. Arroyo cannot stand! It is logical carpentry that does not stand up to even the merest moral scrutiny of first year law students.
It is not enough to be RIGHT. It is more impt to be FAIR. That is if we want to be JUST.
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:56 am
“You’re right, Benigs. She’s been Marcosian so far, so we may be in for another 20 years of GMA rule, courtesy of a little bit of Martial Law.
Or not. She’s gotta do what she’s gotta do, and we’ve gotta do what we’ve gotta do.” — Mike
And this thing that “we’ve gotta do” is yet another hollow-headed street “revolution”. As I said before, gimme a break. Pinoys are losers either way.
If this “revolution” succeeds, it will merely feed Pinoys’ ADDICTION to moronic street circuses.
If it fails… well now; let me count the number of ways that Pinoys will fall flat on their faces:
(1) It may merely make Gloria’s resolve to crack down even harder on dissent (something Pinoys probably deserve given our penchant for stupid shortcut solutioneering).
(2) It will make the military even more loyal to the incumbents.
and, more IMPORTANTLY:
(3) The laughter at our standup comedy in the region will grow even louder and rumbunctious.
“My God, you guys are scary. Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious – are we prepared to be vicious?” — ramrod
Are Pinoys prepared to be spanked considering we’ve been such cry-babies for the last 20 years?
“After all, someone did say that Gloria is ‘evil’ (which Benign0 considers as being ’shrewd’).” — cvj
OBJECTIVE people call her “shrewd”.
SUPERSTITIOUS people call her “evil”.
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 7:09 am
“Strangely enough, I cannot help but agree with you on this one. Lets try IMPEACHMENT again, this time lets do a better one. If that fails, lets try again.” — ramrod
I’m all for this!!!!
Let’s face it guys, as Mr. ace quoted Salceda as saying: “[She] may be a b*tch but she’s the luckiest b*tch around”
Firstly, she is IN POWER with a generally loyal military (for someone so allegedly unpopular). She could sick the BIR’s auditors on all these Makati Business Club bozos to muzzle them all. Crank up “routine” health and safety compliance checks on certain businesses run by “uncooperative” characters. Maybe even do a probe on certain Church “practices” — you know, shed some light on certain priests’ “personal” activities or re-visit certain “shelved” cases on certain clergymen/womens’ “inappropriate” behaviour. Bury everyone in paperwork, kung baga.
Now THERE’s some really great ideas there (Madam President, are you listening?
). There’s lots of things that can be done within the Law and with the national coffers at your disposal (these are all State processes by the way — processes that should be happening in the first place rather than these “Senate inquiries”).
Pinoys at heart are suckers for authority — even if we like posturing and chattering about being ‘rebels’. When we see someone step up and use Power with CONVICTION (which is not the same as saying it be used ‘properly’ or ‘improperly’), we line up behind him or HER and follow like sheep. Gloria is in the perfect position to step up and do just this — CAPITALISE on the relatively strong loyalty of the Army to her, consolidate this, stem any indication of this loyalty eroding, and wield this power with CONVICTION.
A vacuous people deserve to be ruled with an iron fist.
It is this CONVICTION that Pinoys deserve — not the limp-d1ck street “revolutions” and the ironic Catholic masses in the campuses of the very schools that produced the Philippines’ oligarchs that that old-fart romantics like Salonga (who could barely lift his head to speak out) harp on about.
Second, she is presiding over statistically prosperous times (as her luck would have it). At the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about. As Bill Gates said: Money is the best scorekeeper. We may carry on like hollow-heads (like we’ve always done for the last 50 years) about the pleasant nature of Pinoys, our hospitality, pristine beaches, and colourful jeepneys (I’m trying not to laugh here), but at the end of the day, if Pinoys continue to leave by the drove to wipe Western European arses at the other side of the world, we’ll be nothing more than a pathetic footnote on the pages of mankind’s history books.
And Third: Do we have a CREDIBLE replacement? I’m sure Erap loyalists are vindicated AND hopping mad about his ILLEGAL removal back in 2000.
Go figure. History will simply repeat itself and SOME of us will be laughing (along with the rest of the world) all the way to the bank.
Mark my word.
-
BrianB on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 7:41 am
Blogger fired from CNN for having a blog:
wwwdotdeusexmalcontentdotcom
The Ca t on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 7:44 am
why should i be shocked. almost all charismatic organizations claim tat they have direct land line to heaven.
some posters here state that if glma is going to be ousted, it is God’s will.
what’s the difference?
and why sre those people with rage in heart attend masses with clenched fists.
what i know is when you come to the house of God, you even love your enemies.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:04 am
joey salceda calling GMA a bitch was a ploy to show people anyone, esp. Neri, can call her anything and suffer no consequences…
i think all these scenarios are WAAAY over the top…ang sama naman ng tingin nyo sa kapwa nyo. Di lang magnanakaw. mass murderer pa???
why not recruit FVR, former president whose administration had the least scandals amongst the living presidents, to dialogue with GMA for the people, get her to do the reforms we want, and assure us she will step down in 2010. FVR may not be palatable to all but we cannot argue the fact that he had a relatively stable term as prexy AND he has shown her enough goodwill (ok and bad) in the past so as not to antagonize her…
he wants to be an elder statesman, let’s test his mettle now…once more.
Jeg on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:00 am
Looks like Malacanang feels the need for another shot of its antidote to the people’s ardor.
“Executive Director Ray Roquero of Lakas-Christian Muslim Democrats (Lakas-CMD) Wednesday told the Philippine Daily Inquirer that the stage was being set for De Castro to be endorsed by Ms Arroyo as her presidential candidate in 2010.”
From PDI report: VP De Castro seen as Arroyo’s 2010 bet, says Lakas exec (First Posted 02:19:00 02/21/2008)
It might cool some people’s ardor, but I dont think the ploy will fly in this crowd (Im talking about those who frequent this blog.) I hope De Castro isnt stupid enough to fall for it.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:23 am
People seem to keep on talking about the “critical mass” to get another people power going. Wouldn’t it be easier if we people power our representatives to withdraw their support for PGMA. Wouldn’t it be easier if we divide the country to conquer it?
These congressmen are OUR representatives so for heaven’s sake REPRESENT us! The congressmen are a vital part of this evil web. It is high time for this people to realize where their power comes from, NOT GLORIA but US! We need to breathe down their necks. If we go by IMPEACHMENT then we need to buckle down and do our job. These congressmen will have to vote according to OUR WILL or they will be removed from office by their constituents.
Also, my skin crawls when I see JDV and family speak of moral revolution! Wow! Can you believe him? Pumepwesto na. Trapong trapo talaga!
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:33 am
The President basically bought the Lower House, well we need to show her that we own the Lower House and IT IS NOT FOR SALE! The government is a heirarchy and WE ARE ON TOP!
Gloria “power” that she brags so much about comes from the congressmen. If we erode her arrogance from below, she will eventually lose footing and will crumble down.
rego on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:39 am
OK Lets lighten up guys…
I just saw the performace of Ramielle Malubay, the only Pinay who made it to Tope 24 in American Idol 7. Man, she is really really good and really impressed teh 3 judges. Yes including Simon Cowell.
Now for the very first time, I am going to vote in this reality show.
Jeg on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:41 am
I just saw the performace of Ramielle Malubay
and she’s so cuu-u-uuute.
james on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:42 am
Rule of law gone to the garbage. Instead we again celebrate the emergence of rule of mob, rule of media , rule of religious.
Very sad that the instigators are at it again. I can not understand how religious(daw), men and women of cloth could be so easy to condemn people without any factual , documented evidence..it ‘s plain and simple hypocrisy.
Priests and nuns at the senate hearing looked very oa.
The 4,000 that attended the makati rally is certainly not close to even 2% of the population.
Did Jose Rizal and our other National heroes use their position/s like how Lozada did: asked by a philsar reader
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:43 am
“Also, my skin crawls when I see JDV and family speak of moral revolution! Wow! Can you believe him? Pumepwesto na. Trapong trapo talaga!” — Zel
Trouble is, MANY Pinoys eat that cr@p for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. May merienda pa.
Even the most vile of politicians can invoke the “word of God” and Pinoys will eat it up. This is typical of a society that has delegated all its thinking faculties wholesale to religion, ideology, and political slogans.
As an “admired Filipino economist, based in New York” noted about the kind of discussions that pervade the chattering classes of Pinoy society:
” ‘They are droll and unintelligent, focused on the trivial or the irrelevant.’ When the issues are of some significance, it’s the wrong arguments that prevail, the wrong side wins. Logic and common sense take the backseat to political arguments and the views of the poorly-educated. There seems to be some bases for her disenchantment. ”
This was back in 2000. Check it out here:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/10-comsen.html
Now step back and take stock of the national “debate” going on EIGHT years since.
You just gotta laugh, folks.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:44 am
We must also include our , kabataang barangay officials, barangay officials, mayors and governors in the new brand of “people power”. Let us work within the system. Use the bureaucracy to our advantage. The religious, students, businessmen within our cities must exert force on these local officials and demand that these officials express OUR REAL sentiments and not their personal sentiments on the issue at hand.
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:48 am
“Rule of law gone to the garbage. Instead we again celebrate the emergence of rule of mob, rule of media , rule of religious.” – james
The ironic thing is that while the people affiliated with the above crowds constantly crow about becoming a ‘modern’ democracy ruled by Law, there is nothing more Medieval- and Feudal-looking than the sight of throngs of these cretins waving clenched fists followed by robed men and women waving religious icons in the air.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:06 am
could only count by the handful politicians who are worthy of their office. and not one of them is a senator or a congressman. two are governors, four are mayors, and a few are city councilors.
Yes, i know of one- perhaps this Jess Robredo of Naga City. Anyone from the Bicol region here, please enlighten us of Mr Robredo. Our knowledge of his illustrious achievements is limited in print.
Luoy gyud si joker, kung kanus-a pa natigulang saka pa gyud nagbinuang
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:25 am
Pastilan, maminaw ta kay rego, usahay kinahanglan mag pahuway, dili maayo ang stress kada adlaw, kada oras!
james on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:28 am
how can people be so naive to believe these instigators!!
AbS-CBN, print-media are hopeless but priests and nuns?
but again their only difference with us is the white cloth that they adorn
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:32 am
james,
So you’d rather go with Quiboly huh? Go ahead, join your momma…
Jon Mariano on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:38 am
James, lahat ba ng pari at bishop dapat huwag pakinggan?
Jeg on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:43 am
but again their only difference with us is the white cloth that they adorn
Exactamente, James. Theyre citizens too and have rights protected by our laws.
james on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:50 am
this letter is taken from philstar
“Dear Br. Bernie FSC and my Lasallian family,
“I would like to respectfully furnish you and our community with a copy of the statement of my husband, Deputy Executive Secretary Manuel Gaite in the light of the repeated public allegations of Mr. Jun Lozada against him.
“The words of St. Augustine �No one can claim a monopoly of the truth� are what have kept my husband and I going at this darkest hour of our family life. I fully stand by the integrity and honesty of my husband and I know he is not capable of doing anything as dishonorable as what Mr. Lozada has kept telling the senate and the media.
“It is very sad that when my husband finally got a chance to face Mr. Lozada in the senate and state the facts from his side, Mr. Lozada so easily got away with his very damaging statements in the previous days. I vividly recall how in a previous senate hearing before my husband was called to testify, not to mention in many media interviews, Mr. Lozada so freely maligned the name of my husband, saying among others, that it was my husband who told him to lie, go to Hong Kong to evade the Senate, and allegedly used the term “dilatory tactic” to orchestrate the entire cover up.
“When my husband finally got his chance to be heard in the senate, at one point, Mr. Lozada corrected himself, saying he must have confused my husband with another lawyer. And Mr. Lozada so easily got away with it, just like that, and still earned himself the description of a very credible and consistent witness thereafter.
“Last Saturday night, when my husband was not there in the “Harapan” to be able to promptly refute, clarify or correct Mr. Lozada�s heavy allegations, Mr. Lozada again so freely accused my husband, saying that the same gave him P500,000 to keep him away from the Senate.
“The next day, which was the 100th year of our town fiesta where my husband happens to be the parish centennial celebration president, was a very trying time for us as a couple, when he had to stand up in our parish and thank all those who have supported him for the celebration. Although I know how he must have been hurting inside, I never heard him utter any word to use the opportunity to air his side in the face of such damaging accusations. It was also the same time when my own La Salle community was hailing Mr. Lozada a hero in our nation�s search for truth, someone whose words cannot be questioned anymore, someone against whose words, a differing view would only be condemned.
“I have silently watched and listened to how our La Salle brothers and other members of our La Salle community, many other religious and former government leaders have repeatedly affirmed the credibility of Mr. Jun Lozada to a level seemingly beyond doubt, calling others whose words do not jibe with his story as corrupt and merely covering up for the President. Even then, I prayed I would not be tempted to pass judgment against the brothers although in my hearts of hearts, my question was how could some of the brothers who I thought knew me personally and my husband quickly judge him purely based on the allegations of Mr. Lozada?
“During the MBC meeting the other week, I learned that Dean Juico stood up for my husband whom he had known since the time of President Cory and asked the MBC to at least hear first what my husband had to say in the senate before asking him to resign based on Mr. Lozada�s very serious allegations). I was surprised to learn today from Dean Juico that it was only a couple of days ago when Bro. Armin was able to recall that Deputy Executive Secretary Gaite is my husband. It bothers me because I had thought that considering that if the allegations of Mr. Lozada are all true, the people charged would be punished; at least due diligence must have been done by persons supposedly discerning and courageously standing up for the truth.
“I know I�m not an authority in spirituality but many innocent people could be irreparably damaged through trial by publicity and even our own search for truth if our means are not as carefully consistent with our sincere ends. This is not to discredit anybody nor to criticize those who fully support the crusade for truth of Mr. Lozada as well as those who believed him completely but rather to contribute to our communal discernment of Truth for our country.
“The thing that gets me going these days, as I have said, are St. Augustine�s words: No one can claim the monopoly of the truth. Truth is neither yours nor mine. It is God�s. We all hold in our fragile hands a piece of Truth and I believe the call is for us to put those pieces together, humbly and with a readiness to hear other sides, even a contrary view, believing the best and not the worst in each other in order to build our country from where we are, however broken or in need of healing.
“This will be my first time to say publicly that my husband has served four presidents as an honorable man. And in all those times, not one president I recall can claim perfection nor freedom from any allegations. What if, by any chance, not all that Mr. Lozada is saying is true? Can we still bring back the good names of people and their families should they be later proven innocent in the court of law, or completely erase the clouds of doubt that have been sown in the minds of people against them?
“All I ask is for you to give my husband and all others concerned the benefit of the doubt and the human right of presumption of innocence unless proven guilty. Loving my husband as much as I do, I would not in any way attempt to obstruct justice, if he has truly done anything unlawful or dishonorable.
“Since I am currently serving in your august school as director of our Center for Social Responsibility and Human Development, which I consider the closest to a Center for Ethics that we have at the moment, I would understand it should you honestly feel I no longer have the credibility necessary for the good name of the Center.
“I have humbly attached for your kind attention the statement of my husband. In a way it�s our joint statement since a part of what was recounted there happened when I was there. While I informed him that I would send you a copy of his statement, I did not tell him anymore of this emotional transmittal letter from me, which I will also copy furnish him.
“I only wish good things for Mr. Lozada and the rest of us.
“Yours sincerely,
“(Signed) Mrs. Maribel R. Gaite”
Jeg on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:53 am
In the words of the esteemed C at, paraphrased:
She his wife, what do you expect?
(But anyone who’s married would point out that husbands and wives do keep secrets from each other. I know I have. Yes, Im scum.)
Mike on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:58 am
Benigs, what are you saying? That if we can’t impeach GMA, we’re not allowed to feel and express outrage at her administration’s shenanigans? And that if she cracks down, it’s our fault?
Ano bang gusto mong mangyari?
magdiwang on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:00 pm
GOOD NEWS!!! The economy decoupled itself from the political noise. Equities following wallstreet choppy trading instead of the drama at the senate. Did the people also decoupled itself from the corruption controversies as there are very few showing up at the rallies? Now Nograles wants to decouple the church from its tax exempt status.
Chat on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:15 pm
This is a shallow comment admittedly but to the Harry Potter fans out there, doesn’t Neri remind you of Peter Pettigrew? Traydor na sobrang sipsip kay Voldemort. Pero parang awa naman wag gawing Harry Potter si Lozada. Please lang.
Abe N. Margallo on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:19 pm
I>People Power is the legislative and political process in a direct democracy. We have a representative democracy, a very different sort of thing. People power is like av-gas in a cigarette lighter. It gets the cigarette lit along with the frontal lobe areas. It is elitist not because of the elites that take part, but because of vanishingly small fractions of people actually needed to accomplish regime change. DJB
(This is a bit late because I have just voted too . . . no, no, not in the caucuses but for Ramielle Malubay!!)
Now, I believe People Power exists whether the form of a democratic government is direct or indirect. The conception of People Power both during EDSA 1 and EDSA II was in the nature of the exercise by the people of the power of the last say, a sovereign power which underlie the colonial Constitution of 1935, the Marcos Constitution of 1973 or the People Power Constitution of 1987 (as well as the American Constitution from which our constitutional system has been modeled).
As a product of People Power, there is a fundamental drift in the 1987 Constitution from a purely “representative†government towards a “potential†yet expressly acknowledged form of direct democracy in the very first section of the article on Legislative Department (Article VI, Section I in relation to Section 32 thereof) reserving to the sovereign Filipino people, the principal, a provision for initiative and referendum as an express legislative power-sharing mechanism co-existent with that so delegated by the same sovereign to the agency of the Legislative Department. This pubescent form of direct democracy also finds expressions in Article XIII, Sections 15 and 16 as well as Article II, Section 23 of the Constitution recognizing the national role of people’s organizations, NGOs and community-based organizations and facilitating “the establishment of adequate consultation mechanisms.â€
If the members of the present SC are not as “elitist†as they are, there’s been a couple of opportunities (in Santiago v. COMELEC and in Lambino v. Comelec) to pullulate at least a hybrid system.
DJB, your math ignores the numbers constituting the “passive†participants.
For example, today the survey says (and I’m aware of your position re surveys) that 77% of Filipinos want GMA to resign, and if 1% of them who are so intense to brave police truncheons, water cannons, rubber or even live bullets and the natural elements and succeed in making GMA resign, it won’t be perfect science but it would be illogical (and math is logic) to exclude the “onlookers†and living room activists from the equation.
I will have to distinguish too between People Power as a process and as an outcome. As a process both EDSA I and EDSA II were a legitimately political exercise of the sovereign power of the people. Whether the final outcome was a dud or a total fiasco is another matter. It’s like legitimately electing an exceptionally gifted Marcos or supposedly egalitarian Estrada and ending up with a megalomaniac thief and a little-minded jerk.
Abe N. Margallo on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:21 pm
Sorry, the paragraph of my post above is a quote from DJB’s
Mike on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:23 pm
James, like it or not, religion exerts influence on Philippine society–just as it does in a lot of other places. It’s like socio-economic status. You probably can’t prevent it from affecting people’s attitudes.
And the leaders of the Catholic Church here are in quite a bind: they’re criticized for both speaking out too much and speaking out too little. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. I wonder why the INC doesn’t get this kind of flak.
cvj on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:29 pm
Abe, i agree with you that we have “to distinguish too between People Power as a process and as an outcome“. Especially since human will is involved, there is an inherent contingency in outcomes. For example, even if Erap was successfully impeached and Gloria took over via that route, it does not mean that Hello Garci would not have happened.
It is inconsistent to defend EDSA (1986) and then criticize EDSA Dos and then defend EDSA Tres (at least for those who accept it as a genuine mass action). In a similar fashion, those who criticize EDSA Dos but call for Arroyo’s ouster via people power are also being inconsistent. Because of the contingency of outcomes, all EDSA’s should be defended and/or criticized as a package.
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:29 pm
“Benigs, what are you saying? That if we can’t impeach GMA, we’re not allowed to feel and express outrage at her administration’s shenanigans? And that if she cracks down, it’s our fault?” — Mike
Nope. How can one not be “allowed to feel and express outrage” when THAT is exactly what is already happening today?
The question is, where is this “expression of outrage” LEADING to? Another moronic street “revolution”? Or a PROPERLY undertaken regime change (i.e. via elections or via impeachment)?
If she “cracks down” it is our fault not because we did anything bad but because we did things HALF-WITTEDLY.
Regime change through street “revolutions” served its purpose once. But to have it virtually “institutionalised” as the preferred method everytime we are unhappy with a politician is the handywork of half-wits who are short on foresight and long on, well, vacuousness.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:41 pm
Lets face it, there are two types of bloggers, one actually does something (act on his words), the other – well, just makes up words.
If the supposedly Gloria defenders are for real – let them show it, go barricade Malacanang with yourselves or come up across the EDSA group with your own Defend Gloria movement out where we can see each other. Or maybe yet at least do something like send Gloria “We support you emails” etc. or send her more money for whatever purpose she requires.
If not, as I said, words without actions are cheap thats why its easy to come up with them.
If all goes well another EDSA you’ll say “oops sorry you’re right guys” and if not “I told you so!” Come on, cast your lot, be men, not mice!
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:45 pm
On CBCP bashing. James et al, remember this, once you’re in your sickbeds (or deathbeds) you’ll all cry out to God. In your funerals you’d want a mass too probably? You condemn the church yet you cry out for it when the time comes.
Sickening really, contribute first before you demand!
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:49 pm
benigno, anthony scalia,
You both are very articulate I give you that, but this is the real world – we have real people with real needs who need real results, some immediate (life threatening) and some long term. I really hope you help out a bit with the immediate.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:49 pm
“Regime change through street “revolutions†served its purpose once. But to have it virtually “institutionalised†as the preferred method everytime we are unhappy with a politician is the handywork of half-wits who are short on foresight and long on, well, vacuousness.” – benignO
What do you propose regular citizens like me to do instead? Do we just leave it up to the ombudsman to investigate the way we did with JOKJOK scandal? Do we leave the Congress to initiate an impeachment like the Garci tapes? Do I really have other avenues I can go to so I can complain that I don’t like getting shit on my head day in and day out? Can I go to the police and tell them I am being robbed? Do I leave it up to Gloria’s conscience to lift her stupid EO464? I want to know what can I really do.
Kasi this is not the first time. Mahaba nga ang pasensya ng Pinoy eh. Pero grabe na! As much as galit na ako sa mga reklamador at manggagamit at politiko, mas nakakagalit na binabastos na ako ng garapalan at wala akong magawa!
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:50 pm
No matter what Mrs. Gaite gripe about what Lozada had said on her husband, she doesn’t deny that her husband gave Lozda 500k. Did she ever wonder where her husband got that amount and who is Lozada in her husband’s life that lozada enjoy so much privelege as borrowing that amount of money withoout condition.
magdiwang on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:56 pm
This is becoming interesting. Did you get to hear the wiretap conversation of JDV111 and Lozada.
Heres the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAVaXA8kBM
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:56 pm
HELLO GLORIA SUPPORTERS!
Please visit http://lulisbrigade.blogspot.com/ and send your “daddy get well”, “mommy tell god I’m good too”, and “Gloria, my president right or wrong” emails.
Send money also, so they ease up on the taxes we paid.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:58 pm
Oops, my comment is awaiting moderation. Its the lulibrigade blog for the Gloria supporters – please let them know you’re here for them!
Lester Cavestany on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:00 pm
I just hope the prayer rallies can encourage more “insiders” to come out and tell the public what they know about the corruption in the government.
I think Jun Lozada is losing steam and we need more evidence from him or other star witnesses so that the opposition doesn’t lose momentum.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:07 pm
Mrs. Maribel R. Gaite, what do you want us to say? PAUTANG NAMAN!
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:13 pm
“….we need more evidence from him or other star witnesses so that the opposition doesn’t lose momentum.” – Lester Cavestany
————
Hmmm…. why the opposition? I hate the opposition and is dismayed by Erap’s “escape” from prison. That is also an issue Gloria has to account for. Erap never wronged the Filipino (according to him) and refuses to even ask for an apology (the nerve!) and yet Gloria “pardoned” him.
Yes, the opposition may be drooling on this opportunity but we have to make sure they too are prosecuted and sent back to jail. So, deal or no deal? NO DEAL!
magdiwang on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:21 pm
Mr Quezon, please allow my post. I think its relevant to the discussions here. Thanks
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:24 pm
“You both are very articulate I give you that, but this is the real world – we have real people with real needs who need real results, some immediate (life threatening) and some long term. I really hope you help out a bit with the immediate.” — ramrod
But that’s not the niche I fill in the scheme of things. There are enough bozos here clamouring for IMMEDIATE results. These are the bozos that usually win the arguments in Pinoy society — the ones who get their immediately-gratifying street revolutions, their OA rallies, and their tear-jerking crying heroes.
There are enough ‘volunteers’ out there who dole out the proverbial fish. But there are not enough people who are able to grasp, much less teach the proverbial fishing technique.
Those who clamour for long-term results seem to be clearly in the minority. That’s because sustainable long-term solutions are devilishly difficult to implement, require a lot of discipline and foresight to see through (both virtues famously ABSENT in Pinoy society) and involve contemplation of things that ordinary schmoes consistently fail to grasp. That’s why people who manage at that level earn the big bucks, while those who think short-term are those you’d tend to find waddling around on the streets with clenched fists eternally beholden to the robed sector of our society.
Mike on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:28 pm
No one’s saying this is the preferred method. How many times has GMA been “inoculated” from impeachment by faux impeachment complaints? How many times have investigations been impeded by E.O. 464? How many more scandals have to erupt before she loses legitimacy in your eyes, Benigs?
Mike on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:30 pm
Benigs, we all want long-term results. But how are we going to get good governance in the long term if officials cannot be held accountable?
matt on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:31 pm
Did Gaite really say that the 500k was his? Because now Ermita’s saying that it came from a private source and not Gaite’s own.
Man, cant they practice their scripts before hitting the stage? Tsk
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:33 pm
“What do you propose regular citizens like me to do instead? Do we just leave it up to the ombudsman to investigate the way we did with JOKJOK scandal? Do we leave the Congress to initiate an impeachment like the Garci tapes? Do I really have other avenues I can go to so I can complain that I don’t like getting shit on my head day in and day out? Can I go to the police and tell them I am being robbed? Do I leave it up to Gloria’s conscience to lift her stupid EO464? I want to know what can I really do.
Kasi this is not the first time. Mahaba nga ang pasensya ng Pinoy eh. Pero grabe na! As much as galit na ako sa mga reklamador at manggagamit at politiko, mas nakakagalit na binabastos na ako ng garapalan at wala akong magawa!” — Zel
This statement of yours is interesting: “Do we leave the Congress to initiate an impeachment like the Garci tapes?”. The fact that you ask this question goes to the heart of the reason why Pinoys suck at democracy.
Our job as citizens is to vote REPRESENTATIVES into Congress. The people who then win a seat in Congress are then responsible for REPRESENTING the voters.
So to answer your question, YES. Congress should be left to initiate an impeachment.
Where they fail in this representation, it becomes the duty of citizens to employ the proper channels to engage their respective representatives to “encourage” them to do the right thing. One of these channels is the next Congressional election. But there are also channels available IN BETWEEN Congressional elections. Pinoys just need to use their brains to understand these simple principles rather than delegat their thinking to the cretins who are dishing out all these “revolutionary” slogans today.
The rest of the day, and the rest of the 365 days in a year, our job is to focus on our job and raise our kids right. I don’t think Pinoys can get even THAT responsibility right.
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:35 pm
kabayan, i’ve posted my ideas on this a couple of comments back. it’s easy really.
line up all present politicians supporting GMA admin. (appointed officials a must!). shoot them. list all opposition politicians, blacklist them. go look for leaders in the private and NGO sector.
then start the audit of every govt employee and jail those found to have assets and liabilities beyond their pay. jail the small fries and kill the big ones.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:42 pm
“Our job as citizens is to vote REPRESENTATIVES into Congress. The people who then win a seat in Congress are then responsible for REPRESENTING the voters.” – benignO
So if the CONGRESSMEN are our direct link to Gloria, we need to PEOPLE POWER this s*** of b****es instead of PEOPLE POWERING Gloria to boot her out of office.
If the Congressman in our district fails to listen to us NOW! Then let us remove them from office NOW!
matt on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 1:45 pm
i wish ordinary voters can directly remove their congressmen via a vote of none confidence. thatll scare them.
JMCastro on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:00 pm
Most of these congressmen have guns (!). Every election time, there is a great deal of violence, and what is striking in the last election is the number of incumbent candidates killed (more than 40 yata). In my opinion, provincial congressmen have it the roughest when it comes to getting elected, because local provincial politics requires a lot of guns, goons and gold.
UP n student on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:02 pm
All EDSA’s should be criticized. Well-functioning democracies do not need EDSA’s — to “institutionalize EDSA’s” is, by design, to admit to a people’s inability to design for a healthy democracy. EDSA’s are counter-intuitive to how to design for a democracy. EDSA’s are “tapal” to a problema as opposed to solving the problema.
EDSA’s result in a suspension of an existing constitution, which is, by itself, an indication of an inherent flaw of EDSA’s.
If a people just can not believe that they do not have the ability to vet the candidates welll enough and that the officials they put in power have to be removed from their office within two years, then structure the Constitution so that elections are held every two years.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:18 pm
I hear more people saying the Constitution needs some change…
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:22 pm
“All EDSA’s should be criticized. Well-functioning democracies do not need EDSA’s” – UP n student
Under the condition you gave, yes then all EDSA’s must be criticized. But remember 1986 EDSA didn’t happen in a democracy. Yes, in paper the Philippines was a republic then, but in form it was very far from that. So the judgment of the merits of 1986 EDSA must be done under totally different parameters. I will always be PROUD of EDSA and the ideals it espoused. I will NOT allow anything to tarnish that moment when I was truly proud of the FILIPINO!
“…the officials they put in power have to be removed from their office within two years, then structure the Constitution so that elections are held every two years.” – UP n student
Marcos was in power for 20.
Things are always easier to analyze in a perfect world where all factors remain constant.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:43 pm
benigno,
So I’ll just call my friends in Rotary, Jaycees, etc. and tell them they’re short term bozos thats why they don’t earn big bucks. And in the World Vision dinner tonight I’ll announce that its a waste of time because we need long term solutions and that the children who cannot go to school without help can wait. Not!
People who earn big bucks? Are you even one of them? I’m a regular at the EDSA Shang, I meet the people with big bucks really, even at Wack Wack, but not one of them can dish out the bullshit that you do – you’re in a different level.
Excuses, excuses. tsk tsk tsk.
Have you even met a real hero? One who picked up a victim of a crossfire in the middle of that crossfire and carried her to the nearest public official’s house for help only to be turned away because the public official did not want to get involved? You and your kind never will I guess, sad to say, the world needs less of COWARDS like you.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:45 pm
ramrod, the Church is a big part of the problem! by the mere showing of favoritism between not just individuals but SENATE WITNESSES, they CORRUPT the process of finding the TRUTH. They say they have the gift of discernment…well you know…they are only human like the rest of us.
===============
okay, after reading Mrs. Gaite’s letter i say, “THAT’S IT…ENOUGH OF THIS NONSENSE!”
I was fooled by this Lozada character for a while there. Enough making excuses for the little inconsistencies. When you lie under oath, whether through ommission or an addled brain, the rest of your testimony is GARBAGE. I despise his nonchalant finger pointing and dropping of names. PROVE ALL YOUR ALLEGATIONS before you drop more names.
BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE. Let’s get to the TRUTH . DO you want the TRUTH? Can you handle it? Then you better be prepared to go through the JUDICIAL, LEGAL PROCESS because that is how our SOCIETY works. NO MORE SHORTCUTS.
Thank you, Mrs. Gaite. I hope you read this, and I hope you know: If no one believes you, I DO.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:48 pm
ramrod, it doesn’t take a lot of brains to make a lot of money…just look at Britney Spears…
geez, i can’t believe you are DROPPING places and organizations to validate yourself! this is the internet, who cares WHO YOU ARE, it’s what you have to share that matters…
inodoro ni emilie on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:49 pm
up n,
care to provide a check list serving as parameters for a “well functioning democracy”? let’s begin with how “democratic” elections should be carried out, shall we? or how impeachment procedures should be processed?
edsa indeed is not indeed. that’s why edsa 2 was a political deformity bearing consequential deformities. let this outcome gobble up its cause. then we can start anew.
inodoro ni emilie on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:50 pm
i meant a string of edsas is indeed not needed.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:00 pm
“I was fooled by this Lozada character for a while there. Enough making excuses for the little inconsistencies.” – Mita
———–
Just be careful that Mrs. Gaite is not fooling you now. I still think little inconsistencies (if there really are some) are far better than blindingly glaring ones.
Madonna on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:04 pm
Wow Benigno, now you make sense. We are on the same page on this.
Zel, right. The best way to resolve this bruhaha is through an impeachment. It’s fair, legal and constitutional. But how? As I wrote in the previous thread, we must let our representatives in Congress represent our will. That is their job. These bozos in Batasan always forget their primary job responsiblity. Since they have been bought by Malacanang and vested interests so many times, now we better show these clowns who are their their real bosses. That’s us — the citizens! The silent majority has always been against this regime since 2005 as surveys show, so the masses are with us in this fight. We are not stoking what has not been there before. We only need to mobilize.
We must channel peoople power properly this time around. And throw away our mob mentality, which has always been guided by our emotions, and going down deeper actually reveal that they have manipulated by vested interests to suit their agendas — and I am sorry to say, that includes the Catholic Church and other religious groups too, even the business groups and other groups that are sprouting everytime there is a crisis.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:07 pm
I believe the call is for us to put those pieces (of truth) together – Mrs. Gaite
———
Exactly, we can’t piece them all together if the government refuses to hand theirs over because of EO464.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:10 pm
BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE. Let’s get to the TRUTH . DO you want the TRUTH? Can you handle it? Then you better be prepared to go through the JUDICIAL, LEGAL PROCESS because that is how our SOCIETY works. NO MORE SHORTCUTS.-Mita
Remember EDSA II happened before the case of Erap was tried by the court. If we shall wait for the legal process or the court to prove allegation of corruption in the present gov’t, things will tarry and before good justice see its course, the dish has ran away with the spoon.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:12 pm
Zel…there you go…you never know, do you? it’s all perception, based on our own experiences, right?
The Equalizer on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:12 pm
Dante wrote that the “hottest place in Hell is reserved for those, who in time of crisis, remain neutral.â€
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:13 pm
A Call to Bloggers, Forumsite and Website Administrators Out There,
You sick and tired of this corrupt and abusive administration and wish to express your intense displeasure? Another BLOGSWARM this Sunday or Monday (February 24 to 25), the day of the EDSA I celebration/protest will be in the offing.
Like in the first Blogswarm, put your favorite face of Gloria (edited or unedited) in you article, put a title Gloria Resign! or something of similar effect, and place an article regarding this Evil b****y administration.
Either hyperlink or post your website here in Manolo’s site so that we and the Filipino people would see your work and gather both their active and silent accolades.
See you in the Cyberprotest!
(Note: Those who are able are enjoined to be part of both the Cyberprotest and Realtime Protest on February 25; the more talents you have, the more is expected of you
)
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:13 pm
alas ka dora, EXACTLY. and we still refuse to learn our lesson??
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:13 pm
“it’s what you have to share that matters…” – mita
And your share is…pardon me, more bull shit.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:16 pm
Mita,
Pardon me but unlike you I have a face and make make sure I do in every interaction that I’m in, if you were here earlier you could seen it. A face to a name for me still spells CHARACTER.
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:18 pm
Mita,
Its not what you share (share what? words?) just go to the library its full of them. Its what you actually DO. Shame on you! and you call yourself a Filipino? You are a disgrace to your race!
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:22 pm
ramrod, bullshit or not, there it is…ain’t life grand?
btw, you are pardoned.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:23 pm
ohhh….ramrod…cool ka lang…nasaan na ang character mo!
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:25 pm
For all those who still believe in the BULLSHIT of just sharing WORDS without action, you are a disgrace to the human race! Evolution is action not hiding in a safe dark corner somewhere – get out and be counted!
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:27 pm
yan ang Pinoy, di pahuhuli…dapat may pangalang PINAGMAMALAKI at mukhang ka-akit-akit…
sabayan mo pa ng endorsement ng simbahan…tiyak pasok na yan kahit saan pang halalan.
may pera, may mukha, may mga kagalang-galang na kaibigan, well-connected ika nga,…may na-uuto!
like i said, enough already…we are doing EXACTLY what we accuse politicians of doing…
ramrod on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:27 pm
Mita,
Sorry. I didn’t mean it to get out that way. To tell you honestly I have brothers being detained arbitrarily to this day – real heroes and its getting to me each time.
Again, I’m sorry…
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:28 pm
“The best way to resolve this bruhaha is through an impeachment. It’s fair, legal and constitutional.” – Madonna
I agree. But this time around people will have to bite and not only bark. We have until October to prepare. We have until October to PRESSURE our Congressman to do what we want them to do. We have to watch our representatives and the slightest hint of treachery will be punished by removal from their seats. We must institutionalize accountability. We have to reclaim our place in this democracy.
Don’t get me wrong, the search for truth must continue. So investigations must go on. Let us use this as opportunity to learn. Let’s use these as tools to fire us up so we do not forget that crimes will be punished and criminals will rot in JAIL!
JMCastro on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:29 pm
Mita:
All expenditures of government taxes come under legislative oversight. From what I can glean in news reports, only NEDA-ICC, a collegial body wholy under the executive branch of government, approved the NBN deal. From what I can see in the news, no legislative oversight was performed on the NBN deal — don’t you think Congress, whether it is the Senate or the lower house, is entitled to ask questions regarding the NBN deal?
While I agree that any criminal wrongdoing by the stakeholders of the NBN deal has to be addressed by the court, I think that there are basic policy issues that our legislature has to address with regards to the handling of foreign loans, grants and development assistance.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:30 pm
alas ka dora, EXACTLY. and we still refuse to learn our lesson??_Mita
I’d like to be clear on this, are you trying to say that people power afterall was not effective because we have placed wrong people in gov’t through this method?
When the devil quoted the scripture to suit his needs, who was at fault the devil or the scripture? I nevr regret my participation in the last edsa although i could not completely convince myself to accept GMA as the beneficiary. It was my resolve to give GMA the benefit of the doubt considering her credentials. And I don’t mind joining street protests all my life if this is the only way we can bring down a gov’t that has lost moral ascnedancy to govern.
Jeg on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:35 pm
Mita: we are doing EXACTLY what we accuse politicians of doing…
Enriching themselves with our money?
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:36 pm
“Zel…there you go…you never know, do you? it’s all perception, based on our own experiences, right?” – Mita
———–
Mita,
I agree, its all perception, our very own reality is dependent on how we perceive things.
But we must also be critical of what and who we doubt because if people are so OBSCENELY INCONSISTENT and CONSISTENTLY INCONSISTENT chances are they’re telling you lies!
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:36 pm
“I hear more people saying the Constitution needs some change…”
Cha-Cha again, the whirlwind of a topic going to circle again, same arguments, pro and con, hohum.
rego on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:38 pm
Actually, Mita is makes a lot of sense.
Mita ist been a long long way. I remember you in PCJ blog years before. wala ka pa ring kupas!
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:41 pm
JMCastro,
Entitled? Yes of course…but for the investigation to have results we can chew on, those found of wrongdoing should be brought to the courts – the only real arbiter of disputes. None of this grandstanding and dramatics, to gain the public’s sympathy and which only hurts the innocent.
I still have faith in the judicial branch…if only we can all be patient and rational while pushing for the wheels to grind faster…
ramrod,
I didn’t know that. I’m sorry too and I hope your family is reunited soon. If there’s anything you need, don’t hesitate to shout and I’ll come running, even if it’s only to add another voice to your cause.
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:41 pm
I do not trust Noli, he lost his old fire after he resigned his job as the original “Kabayan”; and now a Vice-President who is practically an impotent “Yes-man.” The hidden kingmakers might maneuver him to position yet to insure that the current bureaucratic hacks and influence peddlers keep their jobs and continue on their corrupt practices.
In fact I’m really wary of both Noli and FVR. The power structure of the Oligarchic Syndicates must be broken, and they could be using Noli and FVR to preserve their hides and their Crime Syndicates.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:43 pm
But we must also be critical of what and who we doubt because if people are so OBSCENELY INCONSISTENT and CONSISTENTLY INCONSISTENT chances are they’re telling you lies!-Zel
Agree. As an example- Gaite admitted lending the money to Lozada. Kulang na nga lang pag sabihan nya si Lozada na walang utang na loob. “tinulungan ko na sya ito pang igaganti nya sa akin”, sumbat ni Gaite. Pero ngayon ang sabi ni Ermita that money did not come afterall from Gaite’s own pocket but from some unnamed private person. Kung hindi ka ba naman ginagawang gago ng mga ito.
Mita- how will you bring this case in court.
Mike on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:44 pm
Pressuring congressmen in October is a fine idea (although that gives Malacanang around 8 months to keep them well-fed), but I’m not gonna sit on my ass in the meantime. If we can lop the head off the snake, so much the better. So…when’s the next mass action?
Jon Mariano on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:50 pm
EDSA 1 – Marcos was hated, Marcos was ousted.
EDSA 2 – Erap was hated (by his enemies), Erap was ousted.
I guess, they’re successes by themselves. The long term results are different matters altogether. It can be debated forever whether it is the right way or not and just like the French revolution, they will have for and against it. We didn’t end up like France or Cambodia after both times, so we can try some more times (using people power) and hopefully we end up like France. Giving up after failing (long term effect) twice doesn’t look good, right? I say we try again.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:51 pm
rego,
now that I’m back home, I get frustrated a lot because there’s so much that needs to be done…parang I want to move back to the States but my family is here.
I try to help the people who need it most…but wow…it can get very complicated.
Zel,
Yup, I tried to stay neutral and weigh everything. I saw the initial press con of Lozada kasi eh…almost 3 am yun.
May inconsistencies na after that…like the kidnapping. Timawag nya kasing “misunderstanding” at humingi daw sya ng tulong kay Lito Atienza….so I dunno why nag-iba ang hihip ng hangin.
Then there was the Fely Arroyo incident….nag backtrack sya dun…total turnaround.
But this letter of Mrs. Gaite, I not only saw her pain as a wife (which I am) but as an active Catholic who believed and still believes. It makes you realize, there are too many groups, like the Church, trying to corrupt the whole process for what? For what they believe is the truth…
Like Mrs. Gaite said, no one has a monopoly of the truth, and that is so very true. so I hope we stop acting like we do…and hopefully we’ll resolve this and get to a better place for the country.
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:53 pm
“Dante wrote that the “hottest place in Hell is reserved for those, who in time of crisis, remain neutral.‖The Equalizer
And in the war of the animals and the birds, the bat learned its lessons well permanently.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:53 pm
Jon Mariano..it wasn’t about HATE. if that’s what it is all about..lalong walang sasama jan..
anthony scalia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:56 pm
ramrod,
“You both are very articulate I give you that…”
salamat for stating the obvious
“…but this is the real world – we have real people with real needs who need real results, some immediate (life threatening) and some long term. I really hope you help out a bit with the immediate.”
immediate? look at what EDSA 1 and 2 have begotten? this is not to say that they should not have taken place, but we all have this propensity to go for the immediate. pagkasipa sa nakaupo, okay na. Mali tayo dun.
yes, this is the real world. and the reality is the country has more pressing problems than gloria. i’d rather help in job creation. besides, any kick-gloria efforts will continue even without me, so dun na lang ako magfo-focus sa job creation na talagang makakatulong
saka napaka-super sobra to the max naman to say na life threatening na (maybe to Lozada and Neri but not to the rest of Pinoys) ang situwasyon. parang comment ni Bro. Eddie na impending na daw ang bloodshed! asus!
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:56 pm
alas ka dora,
paano mo naman na-equate na IKAW ang ginagawang gago…EMOSYON na lang yan, hindi ka na makaka-isip ng derecho kung emosyon lang paiiralin mo.
Jon Mariano on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:04 pm
Mita, paano naman ang inconsistencies ng government men? (e.g. Sino ang humingi ng police protection? At saan ba talaga galing ang perang 500k na ibinigay ni Gaite kay Jun Lozada?)
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:05 pm
alas ka dora,
The Lesson was, NO MORE SHORTCUTS, nakakatipid lang mga politico at hindi na sila nangangampanya! there’s a price to pay for the shortcuts we made. For one, we are left with a system of government that cannot get off the ground and institutions cannot work in synch with one another cause just one whisper and one sutsot and we rush off to the streets…
We keep doing people power and the politicians, especially the opposition (whoever they may be) will get so used to it, tatamarin na silang gawin ang trabaho nila…TRABAHO at OBLIGASYON NILA sa BAYAN ang dapat nating sinisigaw.
tonio on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:05 pm
just a thought.
People Power your local congressman.
critical mass, as is so often hope for these days, may not come on the streets of Imperial Manila.
but it may come when these bozos that we put in office are suddenly besieged in their home turf.
they were put there to represent the people, yeah?
so why the hell are you letting these guys get away with representing their own narrow interests?
remember these guys (your local congressman/woman) may still have a conscience. or is so drunk on power that they would do anything their constituents tell them.
a greater understanding of the nature of representative democracy is what i think called for. because it seems that the only way any real change can be had is if you work through the institutions we already have. so why not work through your representatives in Congress. tell them, in no uncertain terms, what the will of the people in their district is. whatever it is.
lozada ain’t the only one who can “play the system”.
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:06 pm
“For all those who still believe in the BULLSHIT of just sharing WORDS without action, you are a disgrace to the human race! Evolution is action not hiding in a safe dark corner somewhere – get out and be counted!”
Psst… Don’t look now, but someone has just recently crowned himself judge and jury here.
Kawawa naman. Marami pa namang “friends” sa Rotary and Jaycees, tapos frequent tumambay pa sa Shang.
-
Padamihan nga ba ng “heroes” na kilala?
Pataasan na lang tayo ng ihi, at least that’s a more objective measure…
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:13 pm
“Lets face it, there are two types of bloggers, one actually does something (act on his words), the other – well, just makes up words.” — ramrod
Lest you forget, legislators’ jobs are to put words together to make Laws. A different branch of the government implements the Law, and various agencies EXECUTE the law.
Not everyone can be doers, dude. At the same time not everyone can be wordsmiths.
Just like there are people whose role in this earth is to create wonderous feats of engineering while others’ roles are to wipe the arses of those engineers when they grow old.
Kanya-kanyang role yan at kanya-kanyang iskil.
Don’t presume to be the judge of what is the better role or the better skill.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:13 pm
Mita wrote:
“But this letter of Mrs. Gaite, I not only saw her pain as a wife (which I am)”
and Mita answers alas ka dora:
“EMOSYON na lang yan, hindi ka na makaka-isip ng derecho kung emosyon lang paiiralin mo”
hmmmm… is it me or are you being inconsistent?
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:14 pm
Jon,
Bakit naman ako ang tinanong mo? Sabi ko nga, wala sa atin ang may monopoly ng truth…
pero tignan mo, lahat ng inakusahan ni Jun Lozada ang sabi nila nadala sila sa paiyak-iyak nya….AT ang sabi rin nilang lahat humingi sya ng tulong. Bakit ka naman iiyak-iyak sa bagong kakilala mo lang?
Iisa lang naman ang sinabing humingi ng TULONG, si Lozada. Sinabi din nya yon sa press con nya at 3 am…nakita ko kasi yon. If I didn’t see that, tahimik ako ngayon. Kung sabihin nya ngayon misunderstanding yon, okay lang ako. I can understand there were mixed signals….pero pag-inakusahan naman na yung mga hiningan mo ng tulong ng kidnapping…susmaria…ewan ko na lang.
Nagtrabaho din ako at alam ko ang mga shortcut para mapadali ang trabaho. Naranasan mo na ba yung walang request pero kinukulit ka na sa taas ng mga boss? Tapos pahahabulin mo ngayon yung papeles para hindi masabit department mo…
di talaga maganda ang shortcut, no?
Karl Garcia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:15 pm
i used to react to some commenters here with impulse,especially benigno.
Effective din pala ang magbasa at makinig na lang sa mga opinion nyo. I used to think that benigno is cocky dahil parang dali lahat para sa kanya..ano ba yong linya nya..it is simple,you know.
One (maybe not only one) statement made sense is that we are more on shortcuts and not the long term.
Now, as to CVj’s what if’s :What if the Huks ruled,or something to that effect,we might have been like China or Vietnam.I don’t know,but as far as i know the chinese have been here for more than five hundred years,how come we are not like them yet?
But his concerns about the elites or elitists,at first sounded weird ,but being exposed to those roundtables about the failure of the coups and the military’s role, I am beginning to get his drift.
Now, to Devils’ inciteful comments on revolution,for me whatever the solution is; as long as its sustainable, I am for it.
keep your comments coming.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:19 pm
tonio wrote:
“People Power your local congressman”
I am with you here. They ask for a new brand of people power then lets give them a new brand of people power. Instead of meeting at a single place, simultaneous people power must be held in our respective districts.
Imagine Nograles, the Arroyos et.al besieged by the overwhelming majority in their own turfs all at the same time! Wow! Now that is a statement!
Jon Mariano on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:19 pm
Mita, tinanong kita dahil sabi mo nagbago ang tingin mo kay Jun Lozada dahil may mga inconsistencies. Eh mas marami pa ang inconsistencies ng government men, di ba? So kailangan mo rin maging consistent.
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:20 pm
some people here keep on insisting that we play by the rule when gma and her minions doesn’t and break all the rules! haven’t we tried impeachment? like three times? did she and her cohorts in congress played by the rules? it’s a numbers games, they said. ngayon buong bayan ayaw na sa kanya dahil punong-puno na! we have the numbers why not use to get her out of her throne?!
debate na lang ng debate. talk is cheap! panahon para mag-aksyon! ano pa bang proweba ang kailngan natin? beyond reasonable doubt? tingnan nyo na lang ang kaso ni ninoy, hanggang ngayon wala pa ring matukoy mastermind. pero may duda ba kayo kung sino ang talaga ang mastermind? ang hirap sa mga pilipino kasi puro na lang sarili natin and iniisip. kung sino ang malapit sa pwesto at nakikinabang ay nakikinakaw na rin at hindi na iniisip ang taong bayan na naghihirap. huwag na antayin pa si neri, wala ng pag-asang magsalita yon! nasa dark side na completely! alam na natin ang lahat at hindi lang naman nbn-zte deal ang corruption, meyron pang hello garci, north rail, south rail, macapagal highway at automated machine ng comelec! ano pa ba ang kulang para maniwala tayo?
huwag magpadala sa emosyon? sino ba ang hindi ma high blood di umalma sa mga kasakiman?
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:21 pm
So the next time you see a senator on the streets waving a clenched fist or placard with a half-witted political slogan painted on it, ask him this question:
Why aren’t you doing the job we pay you to do?
Next time you elect halfwits who are veterans of recent coups to the Senate, ask them:
Are you able to put enough words together to come up with a Bill and debate it in the Senate?
The criteria are quite simple. It’s the expectations that Pinoys have on their politicians that are half-witted.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:27 pm
Zel, are you trying to point out inconsistencies in my comments? Like I said and I’ll repeat, perception, perception, perception…based on our own experiences.
Like I just said, unang labas pa lang ni Lozada nakita ko na. Pinagbigyan ko, for fairness’ sakes, marami nang dumaan…marami na ring nasabit. Hindi lang emosyon ang ginamit ko, nag-isip din ako. Isa pang taong sinabit, tama na.
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:28 pm
at bakit parati na lng sa maynila ang sentro ng mundo? dapat buong bayan sa pilipinas ay makisali na rin!!! pareho lng naman na ginugutum ang mga mamamyan sa buong pilipinas. pero rin ng mga taga probinsya ang ninanakaw ni abalos at FG. at taga probinsya din naman ang mga kasabwat ni gma sa paglilinlang sa taong bayan. kayo tayong lahat ay dapat magalit ang sabay-sabay sumigaw at ipakita ang galit natin sa kanila! tingnan natin kung paano mag react ang mga tangang sundalo at general kung ang buong pilipinas na ang umalma ng sabay sabay.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:30 pm
Mita, you are nit picking on my emotion when you need to train your gun on the meat of the discussion about the inconsistencies of government officials. How would you explain where Gaite got the 500K? isa lang yan. ang sabi mo hindi ako makakapag isip kung emosyon lang ang paiiralin ko. I must say where is your brain on the matter? You have not oferred any answer to the simple example of inconsistency above. Besides, Mrs. Gaite’s pain as a wife over her husband’s involment in the present scandal is also emotion, masasabi mo ba na hindi nakapag-isip ng mabuti si Mrs. Gaite dahil emosyon ang pinairal nya.
tonio on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:43 pm
i just want to see the look on these congressman’s faces when they start receiving text messages saying that their constituency office and their homes in the province are being picketed by the people who voted them in.
maybe then, they’d listen.
and maybe then, they’d start doing the job they we’re voted into Congress for. representing us.
and maybe now, we’d see what stuff the Filipino people are really made of. are we united, as so many people on manolo’s blog say we are? then let the people’s voices be heard, district by district.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:47 pm
I won’t formulate an answer Alas Ka Dora, nor do YOU need to….it’s not up to you…or me. We don’t have the answer because we were not there. Do you really think I’m trying to RESOLVE this whole mess just between us or even here? What good will it do?
Kung emosyon lang ginamit ni Mrs. Gaite nagpa press con na rin sya at nag-iiyak na din sa taumbayan. Ano ginawa nya? sumulat ng mahabang sulat sa mga pari ng La Salle kung saan kunektado din sya….that process of writing alone makes it a thinking, rational thing.
You yourself made it personal when you said ginagago ka. Sa akin ba nanggaling yon?
And I didn’t nitpick on you…I pointed it out.
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:52 pm
ahaha. nice one karl.
sustainable revolution. nice.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:52 pm
shortcut is good when it will get you faster and better to where you need to go. when driving it is wise to take a more effecient route than the circuitous one.
Call people power or its variant a short cut as you may but if this is the most effecient way by which we can get rid of what is plaguing us at the moment, i dont mind taking this route.
JMCastro on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:57 pm
Mita:
We are talking about budgetary questions already with regards to the NBN project, not a question about putting people in jail. Achieving budgetary transparency in government is a policy and governance issue, which is not a judicial but a political issue.
I do not agree that only legal truth is the only truth — what about the political truths which have to be resolved?
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:58 pm
“Call people power or its variant a short cut as you may but if this is the most effecient way by which we can get rid of what is plaguing us at the moment, i dont mind taking this route.”
Jeez. How does one argue with a character who has such an inconsistent thinking framework as this?
Note the phrase ‘at the moment’. So what happens after this “moment” is gone? Everytime an Edsa “revolution” MOMENT passes, the addiction to this moronic activity increases. And as more moronic activities are undertaken at the drop of the hat, Pinoys IQ levels drop even further.
Tuluyan na nga talagang magiging moron ang Pinoy.
anthony scalia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:59 pm
hmmm. last i heard, those working for the ouster of Erap are in government now, wallowing in corruption. those who were neutral then were, just that, neutral.
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:04 pm
Mita,
I am trying to understand the inconsistencies in your statement. I would like to understand where you are coming from. You said you have to use facts and not emotions when you think. You considered yourself neutral until the letter of Mrs. Gaite. After the letter you made up your mind because as a wife you felt her pain, you said..
“Isa pang taong sinabit, tama na.”
Then you said nobody has the monopoly of the truth, but also said and I quote:
“Thank you, Mrs. Gaite. I hope you read this, and I hope you know: If no one believes you, I DO.”
I just don’t get it. Everybody has the right to defend themselves. Mr. Gaite can speak his truth, because truth is truth regardless of the forum. The problem in this scenario is that, government officials need LEGAL forums to speak their truth.
One cannot help but wonder.
Jon Mariano on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:07 pm
I’m with Zel in this argument.
Mita pointed out Lozada’s inconsistencies, can she also point out the facts she saw from Jun Lozada?
Madonna on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:09 pm
Achieving budgetary transparency in government is a policy and governance issue, which is not a judicial but a political issue. — JMCastro
Tumpak! That’s why the NBN must be settled in the court of public opinion and the constitutionally mandated court for that is an impeachment court.
Floyd Buenavente on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:10 pm
Sometimes it takes more than prayers to achieve discernment, and perhaps the revolution is not going to happen with the Filipino People, but with the clergy.
Thanks again for the link Sir Manolo ^_^
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:13 pm
Tonio,
How do you think we can get this idea off the blogsphere and into the real world? I’m really excited to help organize our community to get the predominant sentiments on this issue and dictate this to our congressman with a force they never thought simple folks like us are capable of delivering.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:14 pm
you missed the point again, Mita. it is our responsibility to sustain our vigilance in order to keep gov’t officials on their toes and inculcate in their minds that shuld they do foolsh thing they would be made answerable to the people. Ang problema when Manny Gaite’s name was mentioned by Lozada as the generous man who provided the 500K, Mr. Gaite admitted it came from his own pocket. Now Ermita is saying it was provided by a private individual whose name they cannot disclose or would not disclose. Anong tawag mo dito hindi ba ka gaguhan o ginagawa nila tayong gago kasi hindi nila maipaliwanag ang katotohonan tungkol sa 500k. Between Lozada and these men who is more credible?
Zel on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:16 pm
Tonio wrote:
” maybe then, they’d listen.
may be then, they’d start doing the job they we’re voted into Congress for, representing us.”
———————-
And maybe then we can be truly deserving of our democracy!
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:18 pm
Mita:
“Zel…there you go…you never know, do you? it’s all perception, based on our own experiences, right?
“But this letter of Mrs. Gaite, I not only saw her pain as a wife (which I am)….”
Sometimes our perception is also based on sympathy.
Experiences and sympathies, both basic stoker of emotions, are good bases for perception, but the other senses ought to be utilize as well.
ace on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:24 pm
“Next time you elect halfwits who are veterans of recent coups to the Senate, ask them:
Are you able to put enough words together to come up with a Bill and debate it in the Senate?” – benign0
**********************************
SBN-2088: Rechargeable Battery Law
Filed on February 18, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2087: Highway Safety Program of 2008
Filed on February 18, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2086: 2008 Emergency Management Agency Act
Filed on February 18, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2085: Philippine Halal Act of 2008
Filed on February 18, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2084: Transfer in the Philippines of Science and Technology by Overseas Filipino Professionals
Filed on February 18, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2059: Pilotage Service Act of 2008
Filed on February 11, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2058: Post-Harvest Facilities Support Act of 2008
Filed on February 11, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2057: Pernicious Practice of Resigning From Elective Positions to Accept Appointive Positions
Filed on February 11, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2039: Philippine Youth Corps Program of 2008
Filed on January 30, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2038: Coffee Research, Development and Extension Center (Cordec)
Filed on January 30, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2037: Young Farmers Program Act of 2008
Filed on January 30, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-2000: Fire Protection Modernization Act of 2008
Filed on January 14, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-1999: Witness Protection, Security and Benefit Act
Filed on January 14, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-1998: Public School Democratization Law of 2008
Filed on January 14, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-1997: Checkpoints
An Act Regulating the Installation and Maintenance of Checkpoints Filed on January 14, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
SBN-1996: Senior Citizen Card
An Act Imposing Stiffer Penalties on Pharmacies and Drug Stores Which Refuse to Honor Senior Citizen Card Issued by the Government Filed on January 14, 2008 by Trillanes IV, Antonio “Sonny” F.
There are many more but the point has been proven.
Madonna on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:26 pm
hmmm. last i heard, those working for the ouster of Erap are in government now, wallowing in corruption. those who were neutral then were, just that, neutral. — Anthony Scalla
Hey, that is so not true. You mean to say that many people who worked for the ouster of Estrada, and that includes me, full disclosure, are now wallowing in corruption? No sir, no, that is not true.
Neutral parties — now and then — I don’t have a have data on that.
But how about the majority of the people who voted for Estrada who were against Edsa Dos, but have consistenly been against the GMA regime since 2005.
Facts, please.
anthony scalia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:29 pm
nakupo! mabuti sana if this ’short cut’ does not produce collateral damage! one lasting ‘collateral damage’ is the continued belief that ‘people power’ is available all the time
this ‘people power on demand’ does not do the country any good! that medicine is worse than the disease called gloria!
if only to diffuse, once and for all, this ‘people power on demand’ im willing to let gloria sit until 2010 (besides shes entitled to it), but without prejudice to bringing her to justice after her term ends
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:29 pm
“Sometimes it takes more than prayers to achieve discernment, and perhaps the revolution is not going to happen with the Filipino People, but with the clergy.”
Floyd, you mean, not by the Filipino people but, by the clergy? Good heavens!
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:32 pm
at the moment means we must solve our numerous problems one day at a time. a decaying tooth need to be extracted first before deciding fitting for good quality denture when needed. and while deciding and waiting for the deture to be done, you will naturally bear the inconvinnience asociated with ahving incomplete set of teeth.
anthony scalia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:39 pm
Madonna,
“Hey, that is so not true. You mean to say that many people who worked for the ouster of Estrada, and that includes me, full disclosure, are now wallowing in corruption? No sir, no, that is not true.”
oh yes i agree thats not true. because that is not what i said!
id like to bring you to the phrase “in government.”
Are you in government?
“Neutral parties — now and then — I don’t have a have data on that.”
me neither. i just assumed that they are the people who did nothing to trigger or prevent EDSA 2.
“But how about the majority of the people who voted for Estrada who were against Edsa Dos, but have consistenly been against the GMA regime since 2005
Facts, please.”
ehem ****clears throat****
my post was just a comment to the quotation cited by The Equalizer.
i was implying that those who stayed neutral back in EDSA 2 turned out to be okay compared to those who were not neutral but partial in removing Erap, and who are presently in government! to insinuate that (1) being neutral may be, in the long run, preferable, and (2) one is never too sure how the ‘non-neutrals’ will turn out to be
what could be the facts you are looking for, milady?
Madonna on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:41 pm
“if only to diffuse, once and for all, this ‘people power on demand’ im willing to let gloria sit until 2010 (besides shes entitled to it), but without prejudice to bringing her to justice after her term ends” — anthony scalla
ya right, as if Gloria is not the shrewd politician that she is. She is evading moves to make her accountable now and before, how much more when she knows she will not be immune from suit after 2010. By her track record, she will evade being made accountable, unless the people pre-empt her moves. The issue is accountability, not her ouster per se. Or haven’t we learned our lessons. Politicians, the current breed that we have have consistently shown that they use power for their own ends, not according the spirit of the law that say they should be the representatives of the people.
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:43 pm
nakupo! mabuti sana if this ’short cut’ does not produce collateral damage! one lasting ‘collateral damage’ is the continued belief that ‘people power’ is available all the time
“this ‘people power on demand’ does not do the country any good! that medicine is worse than the disease called gloria!
if only to diffuse, once and for all, this ‘people power on demand’ im willing to let gloria sit until 2010 (besides shes entitled to it), but without prejudice to bringing her to justice after her term end–Anthony S.
naku po, ang kulit talaga nating lahat! pa-ikot-ikot na lang tayo! this waiting ’til 2010 will not do because the cha-cha will be forced into our throat, and gloria will rule us forever with the same dirt that pervade us today. are we thinking this dirt similar to the real thing that can be washed with a bar of soap? ano, Anthony, hihirit pa?
nash on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:46 pm
@ramrod
“remember this, once you’re in your sickbeds (or deathbeds) you’ll all cry out to God”
Probably but definitely cry out NOT to CBCP or the Church…..:D
cheers
Danielle on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:49 pm
I read the letter of Mrs. Gaite and she sounds very genuine. I sympathize with her. So is resigning from La Salle.
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:54 pm
From Philstar.com headliners excerpt:
Ombudsman’s lead prober cleared Abalos in automation case
By Sandy Araneta
Thursday, February 21, 2008
The lead prober in the Office of the Ombudsman’s investigation of the national broadband network (NBN) deal with Chinese firm ZTE Corp. had cleared former Commission on Elections (Comelec) chairman Benjamin Abalos, one of the respondents, in a previous case also involving a multibillion-peso project…
Madonna on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:55 pm
Anthony,
Claro, I get you. I am not in government.
tonio on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:58 pm
i honestly don’t know where to start. but maybe some questions are in order…
1. does everyone know which district they live in? (they should)
2. does everyone know their congressman? (if they voted in their proper district, they should)
3. does everyone know how to contact their congressman? (this i’m not sure of)
let’s be clear here. i’m advocating working within the system. the EDSAs should have taught us how ineffective misguided civil disobedience is. it should have taught us that if we leave our fate with this current crop of politicians… pupulutin lang tayo sa kangkungan.
a clear, co-ordinated, plan of action is in order.
and it starts by going through the proper channels.
nash on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:58 pm
“…Board of Nursing, said that out of 67,728 examinees, 28,924 passed for a 43.45-percent passing rate”
The sad reality of our life is that of these 28,924 new nurses, how many have ‘moral revolution’ on top of their agenda?
Sigh, supply far exceeds demand. Junk the CBCP and its moronic meddling with population control programs! Population control now!
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:03 pm
of course, the pain that mrs. gaite is feeling right now is genuine. but she has only her husband to blame for whatever their family or she has been put through.
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:09 pm
“Kung emosyon lang ginamit ni Mrs. Gaite nagpa press con na rin sya at nag-iiyak na din sa taumbayan. Ano ginawa nya? sumulat ng mahabang sulat sa mga pari ng La Salle kung saan kunektado din sya….that process of writing alone makes it a thinking, rational thing.–Mita
Aha, Mita, semantecs. Umiyak, sumulat, what’s the difference as long as it conveys the same objective. Many ways to skin…..heheh.
anthony scalia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:16 pm
Bert,
YOU BET YOUR BOTTOM PESO NA HIHIRIT PA AKO!
(sorry, di ko alam mag-italics or mag-boldface dito, maybe you can show me how. salamat)
iho, alam mo ba kung paano mag-amend ng constitution?
(1) all the House can do is propose amendments. but the House cannot do it alone, the Senate must also concur. in short, coming up with amendments require the united action of both chambers.
as if naman the Senate will agree to the amendments proposed by the House! diyos ko day! 2010 na, wala pa ring concurrence ang Senate dyan. sigurado yan!
at this stage, expect cases to be filed with the Supreme Court. pampatagal din yan.
(2) then the COMELEC will schedule the referendum for the ratification of the proposed amendments.
expect cases din sa Supreme Court
(3) then the actual referendum. gaya ng nangyari sa 1973 Constitution, sigurado ako if the referendum will result in a ‘Yes’ win someone will contest that sa Supreme Court! pampatagal din yan!
baka di mo napapansin, activist na ang SC ngayon. di friendly kay gloria ang mga desisyon
kaya sa madaling sabi, iho, dadaan pa sa butas ng karayom ang kahit anong amendments para ito maisama sa konstitusyon!
baka iniisip mo, the House, all by itself, can effect the inclusion of amendments.
depende din sa amendments. kung ang proposals ay puro sa economic provisions, that will not be difficult.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:17 pm
just read the Inquirer breaking news-Palace changing story on gAite hit. Ginagago, iniinsulto ang intelihensya ng tao parehas lang ang ibig iparating.
Karl Garcia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:33 pm
Devils,
mukha bang oxymoronic,o sige defensive mode time.
one of the meanings of revolution is complete change;what happenned to us might havee been incomplete change or if complete change has ever happened; it went 360 degrees and back to normal again. That is the cycle I observe that keeps on happening. What I read in comments of the french revolution type, what happened to them immediately afterwards; after 1799 came Napoleon, kaya sa akin, commemomorating an event,with putting blinders on what happened afterwards is not learning from history at all.
kaya icommemorate natin eds one and forget about what the lousy revolutionary government that came after it,wag na lang.gumawa tayo ng constitution, reactionary lang naman sa 73 constitution…an example would be that the afp is the protector of the people..sure it was meant to prevent military abuses;but if were explained properly to us,no one would make it as an excuse to adventurism.
that’s all baka kung saan pa mapunta ito.
Cheers devils, that rant was not an attack to you.
alas ka dora on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:34 pm
Gina Devenicia told arnold clavio of gma news FG holding midnight cabinet. Dapat siguro ki Mrs devinicia tumugiltigil sya dahil parehas lang sya ng asawa nya na walang credibilidad. wag nyang haluan ng vendetta ang pagnanasa ng taong bayan na malaman ang katotohanan at maibalik ang respeto ng tao sa gobyerno.
benign0 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 6:37 pm
Now it’s this idiot Velarde who is now set to rally his flock.
Bozos like this see their organisations as nothing more than a body shop that can be mobilised at their whim.
It’s time people took away power not only from politicians but from religious leaders as well and understand what it means to be spiritual (vs. being MERELY religious).
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 7:31 pm
Zel, you are reading my comments with a closed mind because you’ve already made up your mind and it doesn’t jive with mine and that’s why you cannot understand. I don’t begrudge you that nor am I criticizing you. That’s just the way it is.
First of all, belief is different from the truth.
Parang reincarnation sa Buddhist at Langit sa Kristiyano…belief yon pero kung may bumalik at kinumpirma ang isa sa dalawa, o ang dalawa…TRUTH na yon. Gayunpaman, hihingan pa ng pruweba yon, diba?
I already repeated, NO ONE HAS A MONOPOLY of the TRUTH. Kahit ako, wala. Sino pa sa inyo ang aamin na hindi nyo talaga alam ang nangyari? Can anyone else here admit that they do not have the whole story, that they are going on about ALLEGATIONS like it were TRUTH.
If you want to believe one person or the other, that is all up to you. But let’s please remember, BELIEF IS DIFFERENT FROM THE TRUTH.
JMCastro, Political truths? meron ba nun! ? hehehe..
but seriously why resolve political truths kung truth na. I’m talking about courts because eventually, if the Senate investigation establishes that there is enough to take it to court and make someone accountable, which as of now, meron na. hence, we have to let that process play out. I recognize what you are saying, the budgetary details will shed light on a lot of anomalies, then that should be addressed by the legislative who will make a law or make recommendations for the Executive to consider.
But when it comes to accountability, then the Judicial Branch of government has to step in. Yun ang batas sa bayan natin. THAT IS THE LAW.
I know people can get away with murder in this country, I know we can get away with making lagay if we get caught in traffic, I know people get away with a lot of things, BUT
as much as we have sacrificed our principles, AND CONTINUE TO DO SO, for EXPEDIENCY, we should draw the line somewhere, this is our country at stake…GMA is not going to be there forever, presidents come and go as they have done in the past. THERE IS A BIGGER PICTURE.
Obviously, we are not at a place where people can trust the different branches of government or we wouldn’t be in this mess. But we have to TRY or we’ll never get it right. It’s not an easy task but we have to take that single step and walk those miles one at a time or we might find ourselves lost.
Karl Garcia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 7:32 pm
magalit na ang may ibang opinion,
tuwing madidinig ko si erap na never sya nangurakot, na ang gabinete nya never nagurakot para bang gusto kong masuka; kung ganyan ang strategy nya mali,wag nyang gamitin yung never sya nangurakot dahil marami din namang naniniwala na hindi ito totoo.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 7:51 pm
convicted na si erap tumahimik na sya..kaso na-pardon! *&(%$
cvj on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:07 pm
Yes indeed they are different but then they should not be set in opposition with one another. The proper comparison is not between belief and truth, but between substantiated belief and unsubstantiated belief. The question then becomes, what is the basis for holding such beliefs?
As far as truth is concerned, the concept is related to degree of authentication. As per Thomas Sowell, the level of authentication then enables one to classify a belief (aka an ‘idea’) into a hierarchy that includes:
Theories – “ideas systematically prepared for authentication”
Visions – “ideas not derived from any systematic process”
Illusions – “ideas which could not survive any reasonable authentication process”
Myth – “ideas which exempt themselves from any authentication process”
Facts – “ideas which have already passed the authentication process”
Falsehoods – “ideas known to have failed – or certain to fail – such processes”…”both mistakes and lies”
http://www.cvjugo.blogspot.com/search/label/philosophy%20of%20science
This process of authentication applies inside and outside the courtroom.
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:21 pm
The Om-bads-men are at it again … just like hair care … conditioning, conditioning, more conditioning, then rinse … Abalos is shiny clean from the Poll Automation graft case.
Now let’s take that new ZTE dirt off you, this should be easy, there was already a lot of conditioning…
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:29 pm
Sorry, Anthony, ‘di ko rin alam mag-boldface at italics. At mag-amend ng constitution. Inggit nga ako sa’yo, kasi alam mo iyong isa. But your explanation looks so simple to a simple me, it gave me the impression that you are up to some mischief at my expense, so am wary. I’m not sure of that so pardon me if I’m wrong. BenigNo will call me a moron for this, but isn’t there a move called ‘people initiative’ or something that the Supreme Court rejected for mere technicalities that could do away with the senate to effect charter change, and this could be done once the technicalities are taken care of? In any case, if what you explained is correct, which I don’t doubt it is, but only a diversion, then how come the president’s minnions, when this NBN brouhaha is over, will be pushing for that cha-cha if that is so hard to achieve, as you said? Are you now giving me a hint that Gloria and her minnions are so moronic (borrowed from BenigNo) to indulge in such futile exercise? And, please, don’t give me that crap(excuse the word) about the comelec and the house…they’re pretty efficient(read:smiley w/horns) instituions basing from recent history.
Hindi rin ako marunong maglagay ng smiley, turuan mo nga ako.
TheColdKing on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:31 pm
Bah, why do any of you even waste time arguing with the likes of Benigno, James, et al, when it is so obvious that they are all nothing more than alaga and bayaran of Gloria, the very embodiment of upper class white collar oligarchy, which makes them in a single 4-letter word, EVIL, and you DO NOT REASON with EVIL, you do not appeal to its BETTER NATURE, because evil is by it’s very nature beyond all reason and has no better nature to begin with. The only way to deal with evil is Aku Soku Zan – ” Sin Swift Slay ” – or Kill Evil Instantly . The only appropriate and fitting way to deal with creatures like that is to hunt them down and wipe them out as soon as possible. This is why the Philippines is the way it is now, nobody good, decent, or honorable is ready, willing, or able to get their hands dirty getting rid of the real and true scum of society, these monsters masquerading as men and men who transformed themselves into monsters. How do you think the French and the Russian people liberated themselves from their own native oligarchies? Not by all these polite talk with fancy words, they took matters into their own hands and literally tore those bastards apart ripping them limb from limb as was only right and proper. Until and unless the good people of this nation find it in themselves to do the right thing and actually purge the body politic of monsters like the administration and all it’s supporters , each and every single one of those demons ( as well as the opposition ), by spilling the blood of the wicked, the Philippines will continue to be the hell on earth Quezon I foolishly wished it to be in his bombastic excess. Of course, I know this comment will most likely be deleted because most of you are cowards, but there are things which have to be said!
TheColdKing on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:31 pm
Bah, why do any of you even waste time arguing with the likes of Benigno, James, et al, when it is so obvious that they are all nothing more than alaga and bayaran of Gloria, the very embodiment of upper class white collar oligarchy, which makes them in a single 4-letter word, EVIL, and you DO NOT REASON with EVIL, you do not appeal to its BETTER NATURE, because evil is by it’s very nature beyond all reason and has no better nature to begin with. The only way to deal with evil is Aku Soku Zan – ” Sin Swift Slay ” – or Kill Evil Instantly . The only appropriate and fitting way to deal with creatures like that is to hunt them down and wipe them out as soon as possible. This is why the Philippines is the way it is now, nobody good, decent, or honorable is ready, willing, or able to get their hands dirty getting rid of the real and true scum of society, these monsters masquerading as men and men who transformed themselves into monsters. How do you think the French and the Russian people liberated themselves from their own native oligarchies? Not by all these polite talk with fancy words, they took matters into their own hands and literally tore those bastards apart ripping them limb from limb as was only right and proper. Until and unless the good people of this nation find it in themselves to do the right thing and actually purge the body politic of monsters like the administration and all it’s supporters , each and every single one of those demons ( as well as the opposition ), by spilling the blood of the wicked, the Philippines will continue to be the hell on earth Quezon I foolishly wished it to be in his bombastic excess. Of course, I know this comment will most likely be deleted because most of you are cowards, but there are things which just have to be said!
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:48 pm
Really cold Cold King, but in truth your desire is not lost to a lot of Filipinos. But for many this is considered as a last resort. Mahirap din kasi baka sakyan ng mga masasama in guise of cleansing. But believe it or not I sympathize with you, the only problem with that is once started there is no turning back.
cvj on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 8:49 pm
TheColdking, check out the previous thread. There’s this guy ‘grd’ from the other side of the fence who shares your viewpoint. Previously, he just wanted me to go back to the Philippines (from Singapore) to work. Now, wants me to volunteer to become a suicide bomber.
http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1682#comment-738292
Maybe you both should meet up.
TheColdKing on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:21 pm
Kung may portable nuclear bomb lang ako, payag akong maging suicide bomber para burahin na sa mundo ang buong administrasyon at ang mga alipin at alipores nito…
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:36 pm
dang…in this day and age, we still have people talking of HATE, HUNT DOWN, WIPE OUT, CLEANSING, RIPPING FROM LIMB TO LIMB, SPILLING BLOOD….
Is this what you really want?
cvj, stop doing the twist on me. I didn’t put it in opposition…I just said those two are different. we may disagree on a lot of things but apparently we agree that BELIEF and TRUTH are DIFFERENT, is that right?
cvj on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:45 pm
Mita, that belief and truth are different is in itself an uninteresting point. You did not use up 430 words (at 7:31pm) just belabor that.
cvj on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:47 pm
sorry that should read,…just to belabor that.
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:48 pm
Yes, and these primal urges are being prodded and resurfaced by this corrupt administration by their constant use of mafiosi tactics and management. They should be careful, the Filipinos have different stages of critical mass, one the non-violent one, the other, the violent one. Once the corrupt people in power are considered NOT Filipinos anymore, that is the time for them to run or hide.
DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:53 pm
karl, i know what you meant. lam ko ur comment wasn’t agst me. mejo natawa lng ako sa concept na pumasok sa isip ko nang sinabi mong sustainable.
sabi ko: langya, rebolusyon na sustainable. parang walang katapusang bloodbath yan ah
pero tama ka, incomplete nga ang mga nakaraang rebolusyon. kaya dapat pa rin nating tapusin ang incomplete revolution na ito.
yes benigs. it’s time you lead this fight. i really am interested in how you can un-brainwash religious fanatics. but i know how to make religious leaders impotent (no, not sexually, but politically)
so what good suggestions have you? you know how i’ve been agst institutionalized religion from the start.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:54 pm
cvj, but I didn’t, didn’t I? Do I get a “D” for that?
oh BTW, if it’s an uninteresting point….funny you should post a multi-paragraph reply to it…and NO I will not count the words because I’m not THAT anal…
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:55 pm
sorry…”did I” is what I meant..
tonio on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:55 pm
wheee. seems like we have a Rurouni Kenshin fan.
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:58 pm
oh shoot, again…
I did, didn’t I?
anthony scalia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:00 pm
Bert,
iho, masalimuot ang pag-amend ng constitution.
baka ang iniisip mo, kapag nanalo ang Sigaw sa Supreme Court, effective na ang amendments? No!
baka di mo nalalaman, the division and commission levels of the comelec denied Sigaw’s petition. kaya Sigaw went to the Supreme Court
ang legal issue sa Supreme Court noon ay tama ba ang pagdismiss ng Comelec sa petition ng Sigaw.
pag nanalo ang Sigaw sa SC, ibabalik ang ang petition sa comelec para i-process ito. its still possible na i-dismiss pa rin ang petition. at this stage, whatever the comelec decides, meron maga-apeal sa SC
di ko alam kung moronic sila. ewan ko nga ba sa media, they are blowing out of proportion yung mga bali-balita sa cha-cha. much ado about nothing
yung nangyari nung 2006 sa efforts ni JDV to railroad cha-cha, wala ring epekto yon kung natuloy dahil kelangan ang concurrence ng senate.
the ‘doing away with the senate’ refers to the desired end-result of the amendment – unicameral legislature, members elected by district. Parang House. it does not refer to the process of amendment itself
The Ca t on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:02 pm
I remember my grandfather telling me about this people advocating for bloody revolution.
They are the people who have not experienced war. They are the people who think that killing and spilling blood is a walk in a park.
They have not seen the eyes of the innocent children, hungry and orphaned. being a guerilla was also a no-picnic for the men who had to leave their families.
yong mga nag-aadvocate ng bloody revolution, ere lang yan.
just fart and you will feel better.
Don’t expect the Filipinos to become heroes by joining a bloody revolution. There is no such thing as hero. but there is such as thing as if the price is right.
tonio on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:06 pm
Cry “Havoc!”, and let slip the dogs of war… because i think i just saw a puppy of war.
ColdKing, if you think violence is the solution to this entire situation, then please, go grab a couple of your buddies, and a few grenades and automatic weapons and launch yourselves at Malacañang. Your tirade is sure as hell sounds like fighting words, so either get out there and fight, or find another forum to air your brand of violence.
m’kay?
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:16 pm
Cat wrote:
Be careful Cat, you could be wrong.
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:19 pm
Cat wrote:
You obviously never been in a firefight where people risk their lives for the lives of their comrades and families.
cvj on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:26 pm
Mita, you’re third paragraph (at 7:31pm) explains the manner in which you tried to set the two concepts in opposition.
Karl Garcia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 10:46 pm
suicide bomber na pinoy?
sa tingin ko kahit na me mga muslim tayo na mga kapatid,wala pa sa kanila ang magiging suicide bomber.
Sana tama ako.
pero may mga kulto din dito na madaming nabrebrainwash,kaya medyo nakakatakot din,baka sa sa mga tipo nila manggaling.
To whomeveer thought of that idea,I hope he spends at least a week in south asia or the middle east para masampolan nya ang horror nito pasalamat tayo walang series of suicide bombings dito,sana walang manguna.
re:terrorism I don’t want to be called an american jihadist or a moron or a bozo;rewind to the glorietta bombing,the reason why the pnp has a covenient excuse is it may have been a combination of rdx and methane gas explosion;the methane gas explosion explains why me pataas na pagsabog (unscattered) and the rdx could explain why the parked cars also exploded;as to the source of rdx let the irrelevant senate(according to many here) find out;and we must not forget the batasan blast and all the blasts from the past. To the suicide bomber wannabe..do it somewhere else,or in another lifetime.
Karl Garcia on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:06 pm
The suicide bomber has another personality, the mutilator or axe murderer who wishes destruction from limb to limb;let us say they are figures of speech,why even imagine such a figurative scenario;or if it is meant to be literal,you can join hannibal lecter wherever he maybe.Wow Scaaaary.
As to the revolution, French style;boy it was a bloody ten years before a monarchy was turned into an empire.
Or move up north using Cromwell’s civil war;everything he despised about the monarchs he outdone it,or he topped it all by doing worse,so no one thanked him for getting rid of the evil king later because he was a worse dictator.
Ganito na ng setup natin, we have the elites or the few who are influential,powerful,landed . How can a revolution change that;let them give up their lands and distribute them and bahala na sila kung anong gagawin dun;ay pumalpak nga pala ang land reform.
Not allow them to peddle influence;wala pala silang pinagkaiba sa sidewalk vendors at peddlers sa divisoria.
Power;kahit wala silang power maimpluwensya pa din sila look at Pichay and Defensor.
To end this like an Axe commercial..
What happens next is up to us!
Kabayan on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:06 pm
No need to prod what need not be prodded, there are other silent readers as well
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:13 pm
“TheColdking, check out the previous thread. There’s this guy ‘grd’ from the other side of the fence who shares your viewpoint. Previously, he just wanted me to go back to the Philippines (from Singapore) to work. Now, wants me to volunteer to become a suicide bomber.
http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1682#comment-738292
Maybe you both should meet up.–cvj
cvj, that could very well be the battle of the century.
Silent Waters on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:24 pm
If you guys think Gloria is shrewd, maybe that’s the whole point of all this exercise….to make sure she is not a lame duck president….tignan niyo ngayo, lahat kayo nagtatatalon…
Bert on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:36 pm
One very innocent sentence (at 11:13) and my comment is awaiting moderation? hmmmm,bakit kaya.
TheColdKing on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:39 pm
Kagaya nga ng sinabi ko, bigyan niyo lang ako ng kahit isang bomba kagaya ng mga tauhan ng al-quaeda na personal wmd, at ako na mismo ang gagawa ng soluyson sa problema ng buong bayan
, para talagang puruhan silang lahat, kung hindi e kayo na ang tumahimik diyan mga duwag, kasi hindi ko sasayangin ang buhay ng isa sa mga konting natitira pang tunay na patriot sa bansang ito dahil may nakaligtas, kung ibibigay ko ang buhay ko sisiguraduhin ko hindi ito maaaksaya dahil sa kakulangan ng lakas sa armas …
Mita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 11:41 pm
coldking, maramng dinamita jan, tumalon ka na lang sa manila bay baka makahuli ka pa ng fishda….yung big ha!
cvj, quit while you’re ahead…you have now replied several times to an uninteresting point…
ace on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:10 am
Supreme Court orders dismissal of LRA cases
“Saying it has stayed on the case too long, the Supreme Court has ordered the Office of the Ombudsman to dismiss the administrative and criminal charges against officials of the Land Registration Authority (LRA).
In a 14-page decision penned by Associate Justice Angelina Sandoval-Gutierrez, the first division granted the petition of former LRA administrator Alfredo R. Enriquez and other officials that charges against them in connection with the agency’s Land Titling Computerization project be dismissed.
The Fact-Finding and Intelligence Bureau of the Office of the Ombudsman started the litigation on May 9, 2000. After repeated follow-ups, however, the Ombudsman failed to resolve the cases.
The delay, the officials said, “has not only besmirched their reputation but also caused them severe anxiety and great and irreparable injustice as they have been denied employment opportunities and retirement benefits rightfully due them.”
The case reached the high court on Oct. 20, 2006. The court, in favoring the officials, noted they exerted diligent effort by filing several motions for speedy trial.
The Ombudsman, despite its task to “determine the causes of inefficiency in the government, and make recommendations for [its] elimination and the observance of high standards of ethics and efficiency,” violated due process.
“Here, respondent, the very protector of the people, became the perpetrator of the dictum that ’justice delayed is justice denied.’ The said dictum is not a meaningless concept that can be taken for granted by those who are tasked with the dispensation of justice,” the court said.” — Ira P. Pedrasa, BusinessWorld
**********************************
Now, who wants to file a case before the Ombudsman with this kind of a track record?
Bert on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:15 am
DevilsAdvocate wrote:
“but i know how to make religious leaders impotent (no, not sexually, but politically) so what good suggestions have you? you know how i’ve been agst institutionalized religion from the start.”
Devils, the BIR had beat you to it, the castration (not literally, but figuratively) process begun already with Bishop Cruz of Dagupan (see Inquirer news).
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:31 am
Mita, just to clarify, your original point (at 7:31pm) where you attempted to contrast belief with truth was interesting enough to react to.
It is your fallback position, where you claim that you were merely saying that truth is different from belief, is what is uninteresting, i.e. trivially obvious. That was not your original message.
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:32 am
cat, there no such thing as hero? so ano ang tawag mo kina rizal, bonifacio et al? did we have bloody revolution against spain? maybe you should read your history books if you have any!
supremo on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:16 am
‘the BIR had beat you to it, the castration (not literally, but figuratively) process begun already with Bishop Cruz of Dagupan (see Inquirer news).’
This is amazing!
New York City filed a tax case againts the Philippine goverment for the same reason. The Philippine consulate building along 5th Ave. used to house a bank and a restaurant. The Philippines said the property is tax exempt. New York City said yes but not the whole property. The tax bill is now several million dollars because of interest.
hvrds on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:58 am
Tax exempt status of the Roman Catholic Church. Properties or assets of the Church that are used for worship and education are tax exempt. I am not sure about hospitals. However assets of the Church that are invested in commercial enterprises are not tax-exempt.
The properties of the Catholic Church in the Philippines are under the control and possession of the Vatican.
The Vatican recently fired the heads of UST who had mortgaged parts of the land of the university to fund the building of a new hospital. UST is a Pontifical University under the direct hierarchy of the Pope himself.
All this nonsense about separation of Church and State forgets that the Dean of the diplomatic corps in the Philippines is the Apostolic Nuncio. The representative of the former Holy Roman Empire.
Remember the Pope who faced down the former Commie head of Poland and the Russian bear in his open support of the Labor movement vs the state in Poland.
In a country of predominantly Catholics he united his unarmed legions against the tanks and guns of the Russian commissars. They blinked.
During his life he stood in Cuba and in front of the Cuban people railed against the evils of savage capitalism. He condemned both Marxism and savage capitalism.
The present Pope rails against relativism and secularism but not secularity and relativity.
The entire bedrock foundation of the Catholic faith is its universality of humanity and the fact that we are incapable of knowing the whole truth.
Can we handle the truth that Catholic dogma tells us that we are actually eating and drinking the actual blood and flesh of Jesus whenever one takes communion.
That is the integral part of the mystery of the mystery of faith. Giving up your flesh and blood for the life of your fellow man.
The Pope quoting from St. Augustine on secularism and theism.”the struggle between two loves: love of oneself, ‘even to the point of showing indifference toward God,’ and love of God, ‘even to the point of being indifferent toward oneself.’â€
For agnostics or atheists morality is not the exclusive monopoly of religion. For man’s own self preservation and self interest evolving rationality and philosophies would make everyone wish to treat others are they would wish to be treated.
The Philippine Catholic which has evolved from the Spanish branch of the Church (theocracy)which remained stuck in Pre-Copernican theological mode makes the Church in the Philippines undemocratic and closer to a Phalangist model.
The Church in the Philippines is more facist than it is not.
hvrds on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:16 am
Read the excerpts of Erap’s speech in the Manila Polo Club and you will see an undercurrent of facism in the man.
His message is simple I did not steal from the State like the present occupant has done. I might have made a few mistakes of indulging in criminal activity but never from the State.
His main policy framework is that he is a law and order man.
Go hard on the enemies of the State.
Thank you Erap for making it harder for Big Mike and GMA to go.
Let us look at the face of the political opposition in the country.
Erap, Binay and Maceda. Joma and Trillanes.
The effective rot that has forced the best and the brightest of the country to leave and shy away from the political process has brought us to this.
The message of the left is dead on. However something went wrong with the messenger.
The Ca t on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:35 am
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:58 am
ahaha. dapat siguro inuuna ng BIR sina Velarde, Villanueva, at yung sa Dating Daan. mga mom and pop cultist ‘to operating as religious fronts. si Soriano nga garapalan na business por business na talaga di na relihiyon.
nope. taxing them is one of the lesser idea. if you really want to break religious leaders’ hold on people you have to go to the base. outlaw baptism of minors. forbid cathechism in schools. if religion is to be taught at all, it should be as a historical and factual study, covering all religions, and should be taught by teachers who are secularists. schools should be removed from religious orders’ control.
am i warming up yet?
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:01 am
altho dapat sana sinagot na to ni Benigs. amf. wait ko pa naman kung masasagot nya. oh well. any other bright ideas benigs?
pwede tayong mag tandem. you’re good with pointing out problems, im good with finding creative solutions.
hvrds on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:10 am
Is it naivete or stupidity of Neri’s part on his complaints against the oligarchy.
He got caught with his hands in the cookie jar and now he turns reformist and populist against the oligarchy he so willingly served.
The local oligarchy that controls the Philippine economy is dependent on the global oligarchy that basically pulls the strings of our local oligarchs. The basic issues being debated in the present U.S. electoral contest is the move to electoral populism where everyone will rail against the corporate oligarchs.
On TV everyone becomes a populist and God fearing.
Yet the continuing crisis of global oligarchy is at the heart of the slowly developing destructive deflationary movement in the asset markets that is threatening to unleash a deadly deflationary virus in the real economies of the world.
The slow implosion of the U.S. derivative financial markets is spreading. The cause: the unregulated policies of the global oligarchy. A colossal failure of governance.
“The big question, indeed, is whether lessons must be embedded in regulation. Optimistic opponents of regulation argue that the banks have learnt their lesson and will behave more responsibly in future. Pessimistic opponents fear that legislators might create a Sarbanes- Oxley squared. The Act passed by the US Congress in 2002, after Enron and other scandals, was bad enough, they say. The banks might now suffer something worse.”
“Dream on†is my reply to the optimists. To the pessimists, I respond: yes, the danger of over-regulation is real, but so is that of doing nothing at all.”
“Two points shine out about the financial system over the past three decades: its ability to generate crises, and the mismatch between public risk and private reward.”
“It is true, on the first point, that none of the financial crises of this period has gravely damaged the world economy, although some have devastated individual economies. But it is probably just a matter of time. What would be happening now if US inflation were out of control or foreign official support for the US dollar were withdrawn? A deep and prolonged US recession would be probable, with devastating economic and political consequences.”
“It also true, on the second point, that the banking sector is the recipient of massive explicit and implicit public subsidies: it is largely guaranteed against liquidity risk; many of its liabilities seem to be contingent claims on the state; and central banks create an upward- sloping yield curve whenever banks are decapitalised, thereby offering a direct transfer to any institution able to borrow at the low rate and lend at the higher one.”
“In addition, banking institutions suffer from massive agency problems – between clients and institutions, shareholders and management and management and other staff. All this is also exacerbated by the difficulty of monitoring the quality of transactions until long after the event.” Martin Wolf, The Financial Times
Lozada will be crushed like a bug. Someone should just simply help him with some investible funds so he may migrate to Canada or Australia. Like Magnolia the new flavor of the month will come out in due time.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:23 am
i’ve never minced words when it came to some of the catholic church’s stand on some issues. im what you call a nominal catholic. baptized of the faith but hardly practicing it. the only times i go to church is when my wife wants to and when i offered a thanksgiving mass. my last confession was 9 yrs ago. i don’t fast.
the closest i have of a religion is this:
http://bhapu.blogs.friendster.com/rendezvous_in_dreams/2007/08/ive_just_been_c.html
humanism tweaked with my own beliefs.
i have no hatred of God. only of his middle men. those who usurp his title and act as if blessed with blanket omnipotence, who refuse to accept fallibility, and cannot bridge the gap between faith and reason.
nash on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:22 am
times, they are a-changing…back in the 80s we’d have the vietnamese and the thais coming over to learn better crop techniques…..
“President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo has asked Vietnam to guarantee her country an unspecified volume of rice as tight world supply threatens its food security, Agriculture Secretary Arthur Yap said Thursday.
Yap said Arroyo had been in contact with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung to secure an undisclosed volume of the Philippines’ food staple.”
Eh kasi naman, Who is Arthur Yap and why is he agriculture secretary? He is a lawyer…and Arroyo, our very intelligent and competent President has in her divine wisdom, deemed him qualified.
Pwe. Corrupt na, incompetent pa. And you think Erap was dumb?
bernardocarpio on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:08 am
Nash,
Dapat siguro itigil na ang pagconvert ng mga taniman ng palay sa buong Pilipinas bilang golf course, subdivision, mall at industrial zone mula pa ng time ni Cory. Take the case of Cavite wala ka ng makitang remnant ng malalaking palayan. E kung walang pakundangan ang pagconvert ng mga lupa sa buong Pilipinas e talagang nakakahiyang isipin na nag-iimport tayo ng bigas. Ganun talaga pag hacendero ang mga lider natin mula sa executive at legislative.
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:12 am
hvrds, i don’t think Neri’s statements against the oligarchy is a last minute move to turn reformist. In an article by Vic Limlingan back in 2001, he points to…
http://www.limlingan.com/documents/TwilightOligarchs-01-07-02.htm
Even back then, Neri was a leading proponent of the view that the oligarchic elite is the problem.
supremo on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:36 am
‘Dapat siguro itigil na ang pagconvert ng mga taniman ng palay sa buong Pilipinas’
If this not doable then I suggest the following
1) Filipinos should go on a diet. Eat less rice.
2) Stop exporting Jasmine rice to the USA.
3) Invade Sabah to increase land area.
4) Merge with Indoneasia and send Filipino rice farmers to Irian Jaya.
nash on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:21 am
5. stop making golf courses…magasto rin ito sa tubig at doon ang tambayan ni Abalos
nash on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:25 am
@bernardocarpio
alam mo po nung bata ako, laging ipinagmamalaki ng nanay ko na ang pilipinas ang centro ng agricultural education at excellence. maraming mga thai, indonesian ang pupumunta sa IRRI at sa amin sa Bundok upang matutunan ang mga good agricultural practices…
ngayon, tinatamad na kaming mag-farm dahil lugi ka na, dami pa kotong cops sa highway, at mas mura ang mga smuggled.
nash on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:28 am
PS.
Wala naman tayong magagawa sa pagconvert ng agri land for housing. Population growth natin ay mataas….
Maria on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:36 am
Da blonde gay son of my imployir madam Fanny said Neri is now sooo powerful..can mek or brek govermint!!! He should demand GMA or butch dyke Madrigal and oder politics to approve Gay Rights and Marriage in Da Phils. This will help economy also by reducing population growth! Ay naku I no understand dis tings!
tonio on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:43 am
oh, this i like. let the Church go do its own marketing for a change. let it compete with other ideas unassisted. then maybe it will realize how irrelevant it is in these modern times.
Karl Garcia on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:50 am
To The cold King;why don’t you borrow the anti satellite missile ship of the US and tell them you have a personal mission.Puro ka dada e kung may magbigay sa yo gagawin mo ba? ang lakas mo magtawag ng duwag.siguro ilan beses mo pinanood ang season one ng heroes kaya naenganyo ka sa consepto ng taong sumasabog.
Itigil mo nayan bago ka pa matawag na bozo o moron.
Someone said not to prod,prodding is just sundot,kung yan ang paraan mo para manundot baka di lang si benigno ang magtawag sa yo ng bozo;baka pati yung mga tinatakot mo na isama sa pagsabog mo.
Sige, sakyan na nga kita ….
Tulad ng sinabi ko at ng madami pa bago sa akin na the problem is the oligarchic elite.
What wild show stopper do you have in mind to solve that problem?
here we have the transco,where a local oligarch Razon, who is made a dummy by the the new international power, the chinese.
We have 2 million hectares of land to be leased to the chinese for produce not meant for us,but made for china.
I could have admired your patriotism, pero para saan kung di naman ito makakasolve ng problema.
any other suggestions?
Mike on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:10 am
1987 Philippine Constitution, Article III, Section 5. No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.
The Ca t on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:23 am
it should have read there are no heroes these days.
see the big difference in the meaning when you omit some words. Now i made a point. thank you for taking the bait.
rizal, bonifacio et al are heroes and they’re all dead.
don’t ask me to read a book. i have four websites that cater to researchers and students about Filipino culture and history.
And they’re all dead.
The Ca t on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:26 am
i don’t find you funny.
The Ca t on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:28 am
the statement they are all dead does not refer to my websites. they’re active, one getting at least 3000 hits a day and others, 500.
Jon Mariano on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:28 am
I find Cat to be overbearing sometimes. Parang ang taas taas ng dating na know it all and never makes mistakes.
Jon Mariano on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:30 am
Overbearing = Having or showing arrogant superiority to and disdain of those one views as unworthy.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:32 am
“yes benigs. it’s time you lead this fight. i really am interested in how you can un-brainwash religious fanatics. but i know how to make religious leaders impotent (no, not sexually, but politically) so what good suggestions have you? you know how i’ve been agst institutionalized religion from the start.” — DevilsAdvc8
I wrote a whole piece on the nonsense behind the concept of being “religious” way back:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/agr-disagr/13-3-spirit.html
Excerpt:
“In fact, our Edsa “revolutions” can be considered the modern versions of Crusades and jihads. They are blatant exercises in the use of methods to incite religious (as opposed to spiritual) fervor (which results in the alienation of other Filipino Christian sects) to create a mob psychology to move people to do “wonderous” miracles collectively.”
I do disagree though when you say “taxing them is one of the lesser idea. if you really want to break religious leaders’ hold on people you have to go to the base. outlaw baptism of minors.”
The last think you want is to drive organised religion to go underground. Remember that their rise to power was driven by an underdog/martyr mentality that the underbellies of societies (i.e. 95% of Pinoys) wholeheartedly relate to. When you make them illegal, it removes any further pretense of legitimacy and makes them even more dangerous.
If you keep them within the legal framework and then work on dismantling them or progressively undermining their relevance THERE, there’s a better chance of succeeding in the long run. It’s bizarre though that given the relative literacy and degree of educational attainment of Pinoys, the dumbing down effect of religion on Pinoys’ minds seems to have not abated (and even seems to have strengthened) over the last few decades.
Maybe their “marketing strategy” of always associating themselves with street “revolutions” is quite a clever one… Makes sense considering that addiction to these moronic activities is almost the exclusive province of the weak-minded (i.e. religion’s biggest fans).
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:35 am
“The Church in the Philippines is more facist than it is not.” — hvrds
Maybe this is why it always leads in stirring up all these moronic rallies and street “revolutions” — to divert attention from its own fascist initiatives.
Food for thought for the cretins who don’t think twice about delegating their thinking to the robed ones.
Karl Garcia on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:37 am
On outlawing catechism on school, sa public school siguro tulad sa tate at sa iba pang lugar pero sa mga catholic schools,di pwede ito.
On adult bhaptism,I have no prblem with that pero who can have that influence to make such a paradigm shift?
Out of the box suggestions is ok,but solutions should be implementable.
sorry ako tuloy ang lumamalabas na devil’s advocate;in other words contravida.
The only revolution that will happen, are the planets revolving around the sun.
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 10:02 am
Cat wrote:
—————
So its all about money … tsk, tsk just as the god of this corrupt administration is money, how fitting.
—————
Cat wrote:
—————
I don’t know Cat, do you feel threatened?
UP n student on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 10:13 am
Food for thought: Anger: Contagious and Deadly
“Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man. . .or you may learn his ways.” (Proverbs 22:24–25).
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 10:33 am
Food for thought: Apathy
“So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.” (Revelations 3:16)
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 10:39 am
Yes being lukewarm can be deadly, look at these new round of repressive measures:
===============
February 21, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Rallyists vs ‘evil’ warned on sedition
Luneta protest moved to Makati
by Regina Bengco
Malacañang yesterday said government would allow its critics to hold a prayer rally on Friday but the justice department would monitor it for seditious statements.
“Hintayin natin ang mangyayari. Hindi namin sila pipigilan,†said chief presidential legal counsel Sergio Apostol.
Apostol said the government will not suppress the rights of the rallyists, including Church leaders, to gather in Makati City.
“(Ang) DOJ ang mag-e-evaluate niyan, sila na ang bahalang mag-assess,†he said with regard to statements against the Arroyo administration.
Civil society groups are set to hold an interfaith rally Friday next week. The initial plan was to hold it at the Luneta Park but organizers yesterday said the rally venue would now be Makati City, where a thanksgiving mass will be offered Monday to mark the 22nd anniversary of Edsa 1.
Two bishops have said the interfaith prayer rally could lead to calls for President Arroyo’s resignation. Militant and other anti-Arroyo groups joining the thanksgiving mass have said they would also hold mass actions after the event.
Deputy presidential spokeswoman Lorelei Fajardo said the interfaith rally should be a “peaceful activity†and that Church leaders should lead the people to discern, instead of dictating on them what to do.
Members of the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines appealed for sobriety in the interfaith prayer rally that was organized in response to the CBCP’s call for “communal action†against corruption in the government.
Msgr. Pedro Quitorio, CBCP spokesman, said despite the possibility of the rally turning into a call for Arroyo’s ouster, the event is a prayer gathering and should be kept as such.
“Sana maging within a religious atmosphere ang gagawin,†he said.
Bishop Honesto Ongtioco said there is a need for proper discernment amid the ouster calls. He said the Church does not believe in a violent way of instituting changes in government.
Earlier this week, several civil society groups met with CBCP president Archbishop Angel Lagdameo, Archbishop Oscar Cruz of Lingayen-Dagupan and Bishop Deogracias Iñiguez of Caloocan to seek moral guidance on their response to the bishops’ call.
Lagdameo said this action could be a “new brand of people power†that the public is looking for in combating corruption and suppression of truth in the government.
According to Cruz, the prayer rally could eventually result in a massive call for Arroyo to step down because “it cannot lead to ‘Gloria remain’ calls.â€
VENUE CHANGE
In a media briefing yesterday, Fr. Joe Dizon of Solidarity Philippines said the interfaith rally was moved to Makati because he and other prime organizers want to save Luneta for the largest rally against Arroyo that he said they are planning.
“As of now kasi nagsno-snowball pa lang naman yung mga sumusuporta sa movement ng mga umaayaw sa administrasyong Arroyo,†Dizon said.
Quitorio said Luneta “might be too big†as a venue for the event.
Dizon said for the series of mass actions against Arroyo, they are looking to top the number of attendees in the Makati rally last Friday which had about 10,000 participants.
The rally last week was organized by the United Opposition and militant and civil society groups to press for Arroyo’s ouster on the ground she has lost the moral authority to govern.
MORAL COMPASS
The new calls for Arroyo’s ouster were triggered by allegations that payoffs and commissions bloated the price of the national broadband network project that government awarded to the Chinese firm ZTE Corp.
“Malinaw na sinasabi dito na panahon na para sa taong bayan na maninidigan para sa truth and justice. The bishops have been providing the moral compass for us and it is up to us to act upon it,†Dizon said.
Asked whether he agrees with Cruz that the prayer rally could lead to Arroyo ouster calls, Dizon said it depends on the people.
“Hindi namin pinagbabawal ang freedom of expression. If people ay sisigaw para mawala na si Arroyo sa Malacañang, hindi namin sila pipigilan. That is their right if they have already reached that kind of discernment,†he said.
‘GLORIA MUST GO’
A Filipino-American group that led protests against Desperate Housewives’ racist slur has trained its guns at the so-called “Desperate Household†of President Arroyo and First Gentleman Mike Arroyo.
In an open letter to Filipinos in the US, the National Alliance for Filipino Concerns (Nafcon) lauded Rodolfo Noel “Jun†Lozada, the Senate’s star witness in its investigation in the alleged overprice broadband project, “for risking his life and that of his family for the cause of our nation.â€
It said “because of its treasonous acts and sinful violations of our nation’s integrity and of our people’s dignity, Arroyo and her regime must go.â€
The Nafcon letter, signed by Rev. Fr. Benjamin E. Alforque, MSC, expressed support to the CBCP’s call for communal action “leading to innovative and creative forms of People Power.â€
“We call on our people both in the Philippines, in the USA and throughout the world, to withdraw their support for GMA and her regime.â€
RALLIES ELSEWHERE
The group Gloria Step Down-Hong Kong (GSM-HK) announced the holding of interfaith prayers for Lozada on Sunday at Chater Road where many OFWs congregate on their day-off.
“Here in Hong Kong, Jun Lozada and the truth have the support of Filipino migrant workers,†said GSM-HK spokeswoman Dolores Balladares.
Balladares said Catholic groups, the Philippine Independent Church, the Jesus is Lord Church, associations of Filipino Muslim migrants and Protestant churches such as Methodists and Baptists will join the interfaith prayers.
Balladares said OFWs are outraged over “the astounding greed of the GMA government, her husband and their friends.â€
“In the face of the economic hardships we face, we cannot be but indignant at the blatant robbery and display of unconcern for the plight of our people and our country,†she said.
Migrante chair Connie Bragas Regalado said OFW families would be at the interfaith rally.
OFWs will hold demonstrations in front of Philippine embassies and consulates on the same day, she said.
“For too long, this administration has used overseas Filipinos as ‘milking cows’ or as a photo-opportunity. It’s also reprehensible that while Arroyo and her lackeys wallow in multi-billion peso kickbacks, she turns her back on OFWs in distress,†said Regalado.
NO PERMIT, NO RALLY
The National Capital Region Police Office said the “no permit, no rally†policy will be enforced for the Edsa 1 activities and the interfaith prayer rally.
Director Geary Barias, Metro Manila police chief, said he and his five district police chiefs would hold dialogues with the rally organizers so they can lay out the regulations.
He said about 10,000 policemen will be placed on standby during rally days.
Barias said he has yet to be informed by the protesters where exactly they would hold the Edsa 1 rallies.
He said his information is that one activity is to be held at the Sto, Domingo church in Quezon City to be led by former President Corazon Aquino and the United Opposition.
He said the NCRPO will go on heightened alert status on Sunday. –With Gerard Naval, Anthony Ian Cruz and Raymond Africa
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 10:46 am
red alert! ego-tripper on the run.
competent researchers do not use blogs as reference unless the authors of such blogs have established themselves as authorities in the field, assessed as such by peers in the academe and recognized in their field. you want to educate visitors of your blog, put a caveat: “all these are products of my own research and have not been peer-reviewed.”
please lang–or we’ll end up having several morons in our midst.
hawaiianguy on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:01 am
Inodoro ni Emilie,
Thought I was the only one who noticed that ego-tripper. % :smile %
hawaiianguy on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:04 am
InE, how do you make that icon again?
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:09 am
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:11 am
drop the two %, and insert another : right after e.
hawaiianguy on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:12 am
Yup, I forgot how to do it per UPnS manual.
hawaiianguy on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:13 am
hawaiianguy on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:14 am
gotcha! thanx.
BrianB on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:42 am
On wiretapping cellphones.
Manolo, someone should send this to the newspapers. Very cheap for $1,000. Any GSM phone and they can actually track your location.
wwwdotengadgetdotcom/2008/02/21/researchers-claim-gsm-calls-can-be-hacked-on-the-cheap/
jude on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:49 am
“I’ve begun rather interesting scuttlebutt of an intriguing kind, involving a government commitment to relinquishing our claims to the Spratley Islands in exchange for investments. But nothing firmer than that.” – Manuel Quezon III
It may be more than scuttlebutt if it has been published in the Far Eastern Economic Review. The title of the article is:
“Manila’s Bungle in The South China Sea” By Barry Wain.
In this article, Barry Wain, a writer-in-residence at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies and former Wall Street Journal Asia editor, explores the implications of conflicting jurisdictional claims in the South China Sea.
It’s available in the magazine’s website: http://www.feer.com/
although one has to subscribe to be able to access the article.
However, Jose de Venecia, the former speaker, is included as one of the accomplices having signed away the Philippines’ territorial rights to the Spratlys.
So, by all means, Mr. Quezon. Dig deeper into this matter, no matter who gets hurt! This may involve high treason as it deals with our sovereign territory.
TheColdKing on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:58 am
Kailangan talaga ng bansang ito ng isang V kagaya ng nasa V for Vendetta , wala na talagang ibang paraan, kumbaga sa computer, corrupted na talaga ang programa kaya dapat ireformat mula sa umpisa, dapat magkaroon tayo ng Year Zero dito sa Pilipinas…
UP n student on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:02 pm
To hawaiianguy, I-n-E and all:
In addition to
and 
other smilies can be found here:
http://faq.wordpress.com/2006/06/04/what-smilies-can-i-use/
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:16 pm
jude wrote:
Months ago there were other highly questionable deals which put our national sovereignty but was buried in the ZTE scandal. I had the impression that this deal was withdrawn but I’m not sure if they trying to creep this back in, I haven’t monitored the status of this questionable deal lately…
Gov’t Leases 1 Million Hectares to China Firm in Vague Contract
Excerpt:
“…This, according to a ranking official of the Department of Agriculture (DA), is the government’s main consideration when it decided to lease to China’s Jilin Fuhua Agricultural Science and Technology Development Co., Ltd. (Fuhua Co.) some one million hectares of Philippine land under vague terms. The area covers about a tenth of all Philippine agricultural land.
The DA says that the memorandum of understanding (MOU) with the Chinese company is just an additional strategy to meet the department’s goal under the Medium Term Philippine Development Plan (MTPDP), which is to develop two million hectares of agricultural land…”
http://www.newsbreak.com.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3855&Itemid=88889066
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:21 pm
thanks up.
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:30 pm
THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR APATHY
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/kevin_carter/sudan_child.htm
Click the link and the picture itself will speak a thousand words.
The story goes further that after winning the Pulitzer prize and all the accolades, when asked whatever happened to the starving little girl in the picture – the photographer realized he forgot all about her. When he returned a few months after, what he saw were just the skull and bones of what was once a small human being.
With the exception of the owner of this blog and probably some others, the profile of a regular blogger would be one of a solitary individual opting to spend his free time (or most of his time) validating his existence by doggedly putting his thoughts, opinions, doubts, and even outrage in the perfectly safe insulated venue of the blogosphere. Add the illusion of courage afforded by anonymity and the simplicity of changing handles and IP addresses, perhaps we’re willing to lose our identity and demand that others accept us for what we can say not for who we are. But that’s just it, its who we are that matters and most importantly “what we did here†our words will be lost as easily as we forget last week’s menu for lunch. So lets move our stereotype, anti-social, geeky behinds and socialize with others, talk to real people, and see the real issues.
The solutions to our economy do not lie in “high falluting†economic jargon but in our hearts. Its easy to manipulate numbers and words to come up with reports that highlight strengths and negate weaknesses. Anyone who has presented so many powerpoint works-of-art can see this ploy a mile away. If you know what I mean, you’ll have seen through the SONAs with more objectivity and see them for what they really are. What matters is what is real, what is here, and what we are actually going to do about it.
The Filipino as a people have been maligned, insulted, called names by foreigners and surprisingly fellow Filipinos. What are we going to do about it? Our country has been under foreign occupation, our men slaughtered, our women raped, our children abused, and we read people saying that was the past and we shouldn’t judge the people who did that to us because it was a different era, a different context. If we listen to these pacifiers we will be the biggest PUSHOVER in the world. No, we must not forget, we must remember the HUMILIATION of being treated as slaves, as animals, as lesser humans. We have to use this humiliation as the source of IMPETUS for us to rise above mediocrity, to achieve, to gain the recognition that we deserve, and more importantly, to gain RESPECT. Now we are facing another point in our lives wherein we must choose, to act or remain as spectators, to make a difference or to ignore, this is another shining moment in our history as a people – lets use our POWER, let us feel once again that we are men who can chart our own destiny, to be able to change what does not work for us!
Lets start by looking around us, see what is needed to be done, and do it with the degree of urgency akin to the emergency room scenario – a patient strapped to a defibrillator!
Let us not be like the photographer who in his was able to win the Pulitzer but failed to act when the time came. This is our time, to do something good, something worthwhile, something to prove to ourselves that we are alive…
TheColdKing on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:45 pm
Sa mga lumang panahon, kapag may mga aswang sa isang barrio, nagpupulong ang tauhan sa buong barrio para patayin sabay-sabay ang lahat ng maga aswang at sunugin ang kanilang mga tinitirhan, bakit hindi na natin magawa ito sa kasalukuyang panahon, wala na kasi tayong espiritu ng bayanihan …
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:47 pm
ramrod, kung baga, you want Pinoys to act ON IMPULSE yet again?
Maybe it’s high time people act with the benefit of REFLECTION like mature adults (you know, the kinds who use their brains) rather than strutting around the way hormone-pumped adolescents do.
Your sob hero-laced story is quaintly poetic. Unfortunately we have enough men in robes already telling the same story in various versions. They’re the kinds of stories that merely make people’s eyes glaze over nowadays.
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:56 pm
benigno,
Its never on impulse, its a deliberate, decisive act, probably something you’ll never understand it seems.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:02 pm
“Its never on impulse, its a deliberate, decisive act, probably something you’ll never understand it seems.” — ramrod
True, it may be deliberate and decisive. But not all deliberate and decisive actions are based on sound thinking.
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:02 pm
Benign0, i suppose you’re the type who would pour ketchup on that child for the benefit of the vulture.
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:04 pm
Manolo,
Before I go off to the wild blue uonder and forget. Remember last year you mentioned the book “12 Little Things Every Filipino Can Do to Help Our Country?” I sought out the author (just to see if he’s for real) and I finally was able to track him down last night. Yep, I met Atty. Alexander Lacson, and he’s for real! He said you were giving away copies of his book to friends and acquiantances…I didn’t get one
Just kidding, I bought one the day you posted that title.
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:04 pm
ramrod,
Nice post. It was easy to discuss the philosophical issues of a dying child rather than doing something about it. Some would certainly realize that there is a time for talking, a time for discussing and a time to finally act.
We just have to give up on some people … they could discuss philosophical discourses with the Creator when they explain their actions (or inactions) to Him after dying. Let’s concentrate on those who realize what’s happening and with those willing to act correctly with the situation at hand. We, who are living in the Philippines, are not insulated from the actual corrupt things happening. We are the ones directly affected, so it is us who have to directly act.
All one has to do nowadays is to go to a few LRT and MRT stations and look at the hungry children begging out there; while later looking at a concert entrance where people shelve out P 20,000 just to see up close the sweat of a celebrity to see the contrast between.
P 500,000 bribe money is just pocket money to some, but it goes a long way to help build the lives of others in need. Those who do not see the problem in this right now most likely never will.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:14 pm
“lets use our POWER, let us feel once again that we are men who can chart our own destiny, to be able to change what does not work for us!” — ramrod
Errr, dude, you speak as if this ability to “change what does not work” is completely missing in the Philippines.
Last i checked, there are proper channels for exercising this “power”.
One of them is ELECTIONS. But then we all know how the average Pinoy schmoe votes. Pinoys have the power to vote for their REPRESENTATIVES, but then you can see in the current crop of legislators how Pinoys choose to exercise this power.
My point is, it takes a bit of brain to get these proper channels to work PROPERLY for us. And it does not take a rocket scientist to see that brains are in short supply in the Philippines.
So…
It seems you are barking up the wrong tree.
The root cause of why the Philippines chronically fails to make its expensive democratic institutions work for all is not because those channels for instigating change are absent. Rather, it is because they are not made to work PROPERLY.
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:19 pm
benign0 wrote,
Oh it will be made to work properly alright, you can be sure of that.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:20 pm
“We, who are living in the Philippines, are not insulated from the actual corrupt things happening. We are the ones directly affected, so it is us who have to directly act.” — Kabayan
On the other hand, it can also be argued that you who live in the Philippines are so neck deep in it that you fail to see things from a different perspective.
People have been so indoctrinated in the half-truths of politicians and religious leaders that they have completely lost the ability to think CLEARLY and CRITICALLY.
As Einstein said: You can’t solve problems with the kind of thinking that created them in the first place.
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:25 pm
Benign0, banal generalities repeated over and over are not a sign of clear and critical thinking. You have to go beyond your 30,000 feet view and tell us what you think should be done. ALL CAPS does not count as an explanation.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:27 pm
“Oh it will be made to work properly alright, you can be sure of that” – Kabayan
What will be the BASIS of this “sure”-ness that you encourage people to feel for the prospect of making these things work properly?
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:31 pm
Benign0,
Critical thought you say? Oh there is a lot of that right now. We do not lack the brains here in this nation Benigno, the problem actually is there is just too much brains being used in immoral,evil, corrupt and selfish acts. Many government systems would work if there is honesty and good governance not only in the head but also having the right heart and attitude for truly helping one’s fellowmen.
We actually have a lot of laws, in fact TOO MUCH laws but are NOT implemented. The Spirit of the Law is replaced by manipulating the LETTER of the Law to suit selfish ends. That is what is happening in the Philippines right now. The administration has turned this nation into a MAFIA-like institution, so even if you try to use or correct the system, they will manipulate it and make the twisted letter of law work against you. Even if you have tons of evidence against them, YOU WILL LOSE in all of your cases if you step on the toes of the “untouchable ones”. The corrupt allies will be protected and YOU will be the one jailed, harrassed or DEAD. THAT is the way it is here, the system has been made to serve them rather than the people.
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:33 pm
benign0,
Just keep your eyes peeled.
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:35 pm
benigno,
If I could see through the haze of cynicism that you weave around your persona without being handicapped by my biases I could actually understand you. Resisting the urge to speculate on your background and past experiences with the country of your birth (like an abused childhood, etc.) – I could actually say with 100% degree of confidence that you are patriotic in your own sick way reminiscent of TOUGH LOVE of the old school.
You’re right in saying we should o through the representatives (we’ve been saying that also) and what do you think we’ve been doing all this time?
I can tell you “been there, done that!” What we have here is a very strong coalition betweenn GMA, the league of governors, league of mayors, right down to the league of barangay tanods. I should know, my landlord is the vice-mayor of Mandaluyong and he lives two floors below me and Abalos has been my client for the longest time.
You are a PATRIOT, you just don’t admit it outright, and for all your unkind remarks about our race – I take it as a challenge to prove you wrong.
tonio on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:43 pm
kabayan:
then let the people demand that the system serve them. there are many ways to that. it’s just that these ways are perceived to involve a lot of time and effort.
we pride ourselves on being a creative, innovative people. ma-abilidad ika nga.
so instead of shortcuts and band aid solutions, why not apply this vaunted intelligence to looking for a solution that does not involve destruction.
i do not claim (as others do) to have the solution to this problem. suffice it to say that it will involve a transformation of the national consciousness, on all levels.
the only alternative, is the violence born of anime and comic books as some other people are espousing on this thread.
or else
tonio on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:44 pm
oops. that last ‘or else’ was supposed to have been deleted.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:47 pm
“You have to go beyond your 30,000 feet view and tell us what you think should be done” — cvj
Unlike you, dude, some people are able to distill so called “30,000 feet views” into something more palatable for themselves.
To quote a few:
“We must channel peoople power properly this time around. And throw away our mob mentality, which has always been guided by our emotions, and going down deeper actually reveal that they have manipulated by vested interests to suit their agendas — and I am sorry to say, that includes the Catholic Church and other religious groups too, even the business groups and other groups that are sprouting everytime there is a crisis.” — Madonna
“if religion is to be taught at all, it should be as a historical and factual study, covering all religions, and should be taught by teachers who are secularists. schools should be removed from religious orders’ control.” — DevilsAdvc8
“as much as we have sacrificed our principles, AND CONTINUE TO DO SO, for EXPEDIENCY, we should draw the line somewhere, this is our country at stake…GMA is not going to be there forever, presidents come and go as they have done in the past. THERE IS A BIGGER PICTURE. Obviously, we are not at a place where people can trust the different branches of government or we wouldn’t be in this mess. But we have to TRY or we’ll never get it right. It’s not an easy task but we have to take that single step and walk those miles one at a time or we might find ourselves lost. — Mita
Not all of the above are direct responses to my comments. But all of them demonstrate a kind of ability to take high-level ideas, knit them together into a framework, and develop the details around said framework.
Compare the above to you who goes by the lame challenge — “sige nga, tell us the details of what you propose…”
Then again someone like you probably wouldn’t get what I just said judging by the quality of the comments and arguments you’ve always put forth.
Stidi ka na lang diyan.
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:50 pm
tonio,
That is the reason that if there should be change then it should be done peacefully, which I advocate. However, we must not discount the simmering discontent could get out of hand if this mafia-like government starts getting violent. With that even with Mother Teresa on our side we might not be able to contain the people choosing drastic means. That is the reason we must lightly tread on people who finally had enough and had CONSIDERED that change cannot be attained in a peaceful way. That takes work, a united front, reflection, and then finally action.
Jeg on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 1:51 pm
I take it as a challenge to prove you wrong.
Well done, ramrod. I myself skip most of benny’s comments most of the time since theyve become predictable. Benny by his own accounts have been banned in several other fora but not here, since in his own perverse way, we need to hear what he has to say and answer him point-by-point. And sometimes benny does have a point. Sometimes.
It’s like meeting someone like him in a bar and after beating him up for being obnoxious, a few minutes later on our way home, we realize he has a point.
“You know, come to think of it, he really had a fair point.”
“Yeah. But it was fun beating him up, though.” High five.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:00 pm
ramrod, it’s good you are able to resist the “urge to speculate on [my] background”. Many cretins have gone down that path and made complete arses of themselves.
The eminent Patricio Abinales himself fell into that trap with me:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/rant/rant00006.html
(You’ll have to excuse me. Being Pinoy myself, I often succumb to the temptation to drop names)
Anyways, you’re one of the very few who’ve set out to prove me wrong (rather than go around stomping their feet about how unreasonable or rude my assertions are).
Proceed with caution though…
mlq3 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:06 pm
ramrod, i admire atty. lacson very much.
ace on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:07 pm
“On the other hand, it can also be argued that you who live in the Philippines are so neck deep in it that you fail to see things from a different perspective.” – benign0
****************************
What about the Overseas Filipino Workers?
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:16 pm
Benign0, i see. So you’re leaving the detail work to others.
tonio on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:34 pm
cvj:
nothing wrong with that, man. there’s only so much you can do from 30,000 feet, eh?
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:06 pm
I suppose so Tonio. He reminds me of a number of Management types i’ve encountered at work.
TheColdKing on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:10 pm
A poster already banned in so many online fora should be assassinated in real life already like their namesake for the good of humanity!
Nagpapaloko lang kayo diyan sa B-astardo na iyan at sa ibang mga pro-administrasyon dito na ayaw umalis si GMA, bayaran lang ang mga iyan ng malacanang, kasali ang mga iyan sa mga blogging brigades nila, hindi pa ba kayo natuto doon sa gagong gumagamit ng iba’t ibang pangalan ?
Pero, sa malas, muli na naman hindi niyo nakikita ang ayaw niyong makita, kaya kinakausap niyo pa kesa ang dapat na gawin na i-ban niyo na para hindi na sila makaloko ng mga mahihinang isip . Tandaan niyo, hindi niyo mababago ang pananalig nila, kahit anong gawin niyo, kasi pera lang ang katapat at pinapaniwalaan nila at sinuhulan sila para pahinahin at sirain ang kagustuhan niyong matanggal at maparusahan ang mga Pidal at ang mga kampon nila.
P.S. Saan na nga pala ang nilalang na iyon, parang hindi ko na nakikita kahit ilan sa mga alyas niya…
Bert on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:10 pm
I think I’m getting the points made by supremo and hvrd (at 1:16am & 1:58am) regards church tax exemptions. My point though, which I think they overlooked, is not the legality of such but the timing.
The Ca t on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:23 pm
When someone makes fun of someone’s gender orientation, do you find it funny?
Probably because you are so used to calling people names, laughing to other people’s disabilities so you hardly notice remarks which are off tangent.
Grow up people.
Kabayan on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:30 pm
Bert wrote:
==============
True, they are expecting them to fold up and lick the a** of Gloria so that she could grant “Executive Privilege”
rego on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:32 pm
“Nagpapaloko lang kayo diyan sa B-astardo na iyan at sa ibang mga pro-administrasyon dito na ayaw umalis si GMA, bayaran lang ang mga iyan ng malacanang, kasali ang mga iyan sa mga blogging brigades nila, hindi pa ba kayo natuto doon sa gagong gumagamit ng iba’t ibang pangalan ? ”
=========================================================
My dear you have deluded yourself so much.!!!! This has been argued, discussed, debated over and over again inthis forum and even in other forum. Unfortunately, it remained unsubstantiated until now. Wonder why all your advocacies about goverment accountabiliy etc etc etc from you side has never ever prospered at all? Gloria is still in malacanang?
IT WAS BUILT ON A VERY WRONG ASSUMPTION FROM THE VERY START!!!!!!!!!!!!
TheColdKing on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:38 pm
Rego, or whatever your name is, you condemn yourself with your own words. YOU, REGO, are a paid hack of GMA and as such you should GO TO HELL ASAP ! >-(
The Ca t on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:44 pm
Someone’s reading too many blogs where authors write what they eat, what they smoke and what they have read.
And expressing inane political opinions.
Learn more about other kinds of blogs, will you? ang inggit ang palaging lumalabas eh. So far, I have been receiving thanks for showcasing Filipino culture.
Visit them and learn more about the Filipinos. Read for yourself my disclaimer. Hirap, di pa nabasa, dami ng satsat. Ow and it is not my Now What Cat? that is more of personal blog where you will get to know my expertise and my brand of humor which do not make use of disabilities and gender orientation of people.
They are in my “other blogs” caption.
mwehehe.
tonio on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:47 pm
rego:
i know your convictions are almost diametrically opposed to many here. but don’t feed the troll, dude.
Mita on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:49 pm
the OFW’s? diba nga bagong bayani sila…the OFW’s are the true reason why the economy has grown by 7% last year.
that’s been repeated here so many times…yet the OFW’s who comment with opinions on the other side of the aisle here are continually denigrated and their opinion called flawed somehow…
“From a distance I just cannot comprehend
what all this fighting is for
From a distance there is harmony…”
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:03 pm
Ca T, i thought they were referring to Benign0, but if you felt alluded to, i suppose you’re entitled to that as well.
mlq3 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:05 pm
rego is not a paid hack of anyone.
fiball on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:08 pm
Grow up people. — Meow
Pagpasensyhan nyo na ‘to. Inilihis ang usapan. EGO! EGO! EGO!
Maria aka Inday (regards to Madam Fanny), I like your sense of humor, don’t find a trace of malice there at all and in fact, your suggestion makes a lot of sense. Unlike others, di alam na cruel sila dahil malicious palagi ang atake. Imagine, sabihin na heroes don’t exist nowadays. Ala sguro sya nakita na hero sa buong buhay niya — magulang, kasintahan, kaibigan, guro. Heroes can’t just be found in books, they are all around. Ineng, consider why fairy tales continue to be taught and told in schools and at home. Ponder on that. Kung walang hero sa paligid mo, then just consider Maria Carey’s dictum in her song. You are a hero ateng, — opps wag lang maging ego-tripper dear.
fiball on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:17 pm
At meow, you’re not funny at all. Kala mo funny ka? In fact, your brand of sarcasm remind us of Nuestra Senora Malu. Gets mo?
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:36 pm
Mita,
I’m an OFW but I don’t feel heroic. Most of the time I feel helpless and frustrated, but there is no choice but to go on. You’re all aware why people choose to be OFWs in the first place right? So on top of the needs of their families, they are constrained to look at the needs of others also because from a distance – the Philippines becomes their family. Many of those who experienced being away from the fatherland will know what I mean.
Karl Garcia on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:51 pm
CAT di ri n ikaw ang unang pumasok sa utak ko, I had the privilege of visiting Now What cat,let me try your other blogs later.
For Rego,
isa syang masipag na OFW traveling from Jersey to NY daily,di ko lang alam kung ganun pa din,pag sya may comment lahat kami napapatigil saglit, at gusto pakinggan ang mga punto sya.
Benigs, aaminin ko akala ko sya ang tinutukoy na ego-tripper,pero tama si Jeg,sometimes may point sya.
No one is a paid hack here,at di rin nila ako binayaran para idefend sila.
Atty Bencard nalimutan ko kayo,pero same thing no one is a paid hack here,sometimes we do have tough love,senseless and pointless exchanges dahil tulad ulit ng sinabni Jeg pagtapos gulpihin ang isang pinagkursunadahan..me punto sya pero ang sarap nyang gulpihin.No offense
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:52 pm
Mita,
And its easy not to get involved really. You can just close your eyes and be busy with work or travel, but then again our Filipino penchant for finishing everything on time (sometimes earlier), casually striking conversations with people you meet, and touching base with old friends – its unavoidable (in other words tsismoso).
I speak for those who are in this cause who are not religious, for I have no religion myself. What would you call someone who was born catholic, became born again then fell away? Probably the worst kind of sinner with no hope for divine redemption huh? At least from the religious people’s point of view. Fortunately, the afterlife has never been a priority… But those who are really alive – hopefully still are…
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 4:56 pm
“So on top of the needs of their families, they are constrained to look at the needs of others also because from a distance – the Philippines becomes their family. Many of those who experienced being away from the fatherland will know what I mean.” — ramrod
Are you speaking for most OFW’s? Or just yourself?
The idea of OFW’s thinking of the Philippines ‘becoming’ their family because of distance seems a bit far-fetched. In the Philippines, cleanliness for most Pinoys doesn’t go beyond their doorstep. Pinoys may be anal about keeping their houses spotless but wouldn’t think twice about dumping garbage into an estero (or even the sidewalk just in front of their house).
You should also see the politics (intrigahan, inggitan, lamangan, you name it) in Pinoy expat communities. They’re microcosms of this “fatherland” of ours.
benign0 on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:00 pm
I forgot to make my point nga pala about what I wrote here “In the Philippines, cleanliness for most Pinoys doesn’t go beyond their doorstep. Pinoys may be anal about keeping their houses spotless but wouldn’t think twice about dumping garbage into an estero (or even the sidewalk just in front of their house).”
My point is, Pinoys are famous for our loyalty to our families, clans, and tribes AND equally famous for our inability to extend this loyalty beyond those onto the greater community. There is no collective trust (which is why corruption prevails). There is no meritocracy (in its place is the cancer of nepotism).
Jeg on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:07 pm
Pssst, Karl, huwag mo naman isama si Manoy sa masarap gulpihin. Senior citizen na siya at dapat igalang.
At benny, talinhaga lang yung ‘gulpi’ na sinabi ko kanina a. Hindi ko naman iminumungkahi na gulpihin ka sa tunay na buhay.
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:08 pm
I could relate to what Ramrod is saying about the Philippines becoming your ‘family’ once you become an OFW. As Raul Pangalangan once wrote, holding a Philippine passport and having to write ‘Filipino’ (under ‘Nationality’ and/or ‘Race’) in the forms that you have to fill-out tends to make you aware of that aspect of your identity.
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:19 pm
benigno,
I see that you’re one of those who have actually fell over the edge of the limits of your frustration. I don’t blame you, for to be honest about it, I felt the same way before I visited this blog. In this “LOVE THE FILIPINO” movement of sorts, I’m a new convert so to speak. I’ve always asserted, rather erroneously before, that I’m a CEBUANO and Filipino refers to the Tagalog speaking minions of Imperialistic Manila.
Our brothers and sisters (Filipinos) are not an easy people to please and at times downright difficult. You should try asking for contributions for a cause and you’ll see why its frustrating at times. But then again, you find one, then two, then some more – it takes a bit of time, brute force, and native talent but you’ll get there. Also try stopping at a place where street children and their street parents frequent and start giving away food – you’ll get swamped and impolitely sometimes get jostled and if you’re lucky you’ll get away with only a scratch on your car. Temporary relief i agree, but at least its a relief somehow, right?
The Filipinos deserved to be loved. And loved UNCONDITIONALLY, much like my mother does with me (as they say a face only a mother can love).
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:21 pm
…And by Filipinos (who deserved to be loved) – that includes you benigno.
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:32 pm
benigno,
Don’t get any funny ideas, the name is ramrod akin to rambo (just so we’re clear on that).
Mita on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:38 pm
yes, ramrod…been there done that and gone full circle.
and the frustration..oh gee. now that i have more time on my hands I endeavored to teach a 15-year old to read and write. we had to start from the alphabet. she’s our maid and she comes from a family of 8 kids…maaawa ka talaga cause her father tried to strangle her in a drunken rage once. I offered to send her to school but she doesn’t have any papers, no birth certificate…nothing at all. we’ve gone quite far in our lessons and now she’s quitting at the end of the month because she finds her life here boring and all her money goes to her family anyway. she’s young but I spoke to her, told her to just be patient so she can learn and earn at the same time while I keep some of her money for her. nada…she’s bored. bahala na.
Bert on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:43 pm
“The idea of OFW’s thinking of the Philippines ‘becoming’ their family because of distance seems a bit far-fetched. In the Philippines, cleanliness for most Pinoys doesn’t go beyond their doorstep. Pinoys may be anal about keeping their houses spotless but wouldn’t think twice about dumping garbage into an estero (or even the sidewalk just in front of their house).
You should also see the politics (intrigahan, inggitan, lamangan, you name it) in Pinoy expat communities. They’re microcosms of this “fatherland†of ours.”
That’s what is called selective vision, the eyes used to looking at the dirt would always divert toward the dirt, the bright part will be be too glaring to be comfortable.
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:50 pm
Mita,
I admire your patience, too bad that girl didn’t have the vision of seeing beyond the present – it could have been a way out of her current situation and a better one. Myself, I don’t have that kind of patience, I’m more of the beat-them-up-to-shape kind of teacher.
I really hope you don’t tire of helping, if you ask me to pray about it I won’t mind, really.
Sometimes, re charity efforts etc., I’m tempted to approach the real moneyed ones like Erap. If he asks for something in return, I’ll volunteer to clean his cars, his house, his lawn, etc. but I won’t do the cooking though…
alas ka dora on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:53 pm
If i were president arroyo i would fire Romulo Neri as member of the cabinet. if Neri spill the beans, it would look like he’s doing it out of gripe in much the same way we look at exposes of Gina devenicia. therefore loosing bites and venum. Pero habang nasa cabinete pa ni Mrs. Arroyo si Neri, you cannot avoid considering the possibility that he is being controlled by the palace, and by their very act in handling Neri, they look guilty as charged by Lozada.
tonio on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:00 pm
to those in the diaspora, tell me this isn’t true. that’s why there’s an association for every town, province, and what have you… because you can’t bring Filipinos in a large group together without the knives coming out, each blade aimed at someone else’s back.
for a few months i lived out in the boonies of saskatchewan. and over where my uncle was there were only two other filipino families. and they got along great. and all of those families were doing quite well for themselves, the parents with stable jobs and the children active members of a larger community. it was really cool.
but any larger i think, and it all just devolves into a mirror of the way things are here.
so, maybe we should start with that, eh?
cvj on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:16 pm
Tonio, from what i observed, i think that truer of the older generation of Filipinos(i.e. Ca T’s, Mita’s and Bencard’s).
The Ca t on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:18 pm
If that is the type of humor that you find funny, then I know where you’re coming from.
Lowlife. Is that ur alternick?
If you don’t find me funny, it is because I am not a comedienne nor a stand-up comic. I am a humorist.
Karl Garcia on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:22 pm
Ramrod,
I think based on past comments of Mita mukhang nagtagal sya sa sates at mukhang bagong balik bayan lang sya.Nagkakaintindihan kayo more than you know.
Karl Garcia on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:24 pm
Jeg,
nagbibiro lang din!
syempre ayaw ko ng gulpihan
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:46 pm
“I am a humorist.” – the cat
Is that the same as satirist?
ramrod on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:48 pm
tonio,
We’re normal people, some are good, some are bad, but it would be wrong to streotype Filipinos as one rotten, damaged, hopeless, race.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 2:41 am
“Someone’s reading too many blogs where authors write what they eat, what they smoke and what they have read. And expressing inane political opinions.†– Ca T
“Ca T, i thought they were referring to Benign0, but if you felt alluded to, i suppose you’re entitled to that as well.†– cvj
“CAT di ri n ikaw ang unang pumasok sa utak ko, I had the privilege of visiting†– Karl Garcia
I agree with Karl. Truth is, Ca T’s blog never entered into my mind but somebody else who keeps on telling people around to read his own work. Am not sure if that’s what Inodoro ni Emilie is thinking. Definitely, it’s not Manolo as far as I’m concerned.
Anyway, most bloggers here would know by now who is an ego-tripper. Just between him/her (a dude?) and us.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 2:44 am
ramrod, “We’re normal people, some are good, some are bad, but it would be wrong to streotype Filipinos as one rotten, damaged, hopeless, race.”
That’s basically a thesis of Fallow’s “damaged culture” essay. If my memory serves me right, Mangahas (an economist, see recent PDI article) argues that it is an acknowledgment of “inferiority” (“superiority”) on the part of those who accept (propose) it. I agree.
But is there really such a thing as “superior/inferior” culture? Among anthropologists, this is an expression of ethnocentricism which doesn’t stand up against the more widely accepted principle of cultural relativity. That is, we can’t judge other people’s behaviors and practices on the basis of our own cultural standards or norms.
Maybe a “damaged state” (political institution) at a particular moment. But then, looking at culture as a social/biological system, the whole will eventually settle down to an equilibrium after fixing the “broken part.” That’s part of survival mode common among all cultures the world over.
Unlike when the whole is “damaged” and “hopeless,” there’s nothing more one can do except to thrash it overboard – just like an old, cannibalized, useless car. That’s because cultures can’t regenerate once they reach the end of the road (e.g., Maya/Inca civilization, Egypt’s age of pharaohs, etc.).
Unlike other pessimistic bloggers, I believe in the creative and positive traits of pinoys. Let’s start with the state broken or damaged by this regime’s orgy of corruption.
carlos on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 5:49 pm
So according to some dude nameed cvj I broke my moral compass. Whatever. All you guys need to get a life and get to work. CVJ you have no idea what I do or who i am so fuck off, asshole.
Why can’t you all accept the fact that people have different opinions? Why have to resort to insulting us? Or claim that it’s some “palace” conspiracy which is why we don’t join your cause.
It is not and you know it. Maybe it’s your alienating condescending attitude which is why we refuse to go anywhere near you.
We are intelligent moral people who pay our taxes and do not kick dogs. Just like you. We just don’t see eye to eye when it comes to politics. That’s all.
Deal with it!!!
ramrod on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 6:23 pm
carlos,
Its good to know that you don’t kick dogs.
carlos on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 11:05 pm
Thanks. That usually comes a surprise to most people.
MBSP on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 11:11 pm
Hey MLQ3,
I love the excerpts from the Analects. As a student of Chinese history and philosophy, this post of yours inspired me to write my take on one of that text’s contemporaries, the Tao Te Ching. You can check it out here.
cvj on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 11:17 pm
Getting a puppy so i can kick it after a hard day at work did cross my mind.
justice league on Sun, 24th Feb 2008 1:10 am
Ca T,
I thought you would have held that people like Acsa Ramirez or Clarissa Ocampo are “heroines”.
Unless you have some information against people like them; your issue with “heroes” is appearing to be more of a gender issue.
The Ca t on Sun, 24th Feb 2008 7:46 am
This is a repost. I posted this in the latest mlq3’s article. My mistake.
Now, now justice league, I may have short memory lapses but never did I write that these two ladies were heroines.
This is what I wrote:
I admired Singson’s secretary though when she testified in the Senate. She was straightforward and never was intimidated by the questioning of the veteran defense lawyers. Hindi siya umiyak. Neither did Clarissa.
These I wrote after my impression about whistleblowers which included Singson. These two ladies were not whistleblowers. They were just witnesses. YOur “hero’ was a self-confessed corrupt turned witness with all the drama that he can muster.
If you watched †The BONES†last night, you would have seen how even an expert testifying in court is advised what to wear, how to project and what words to use in trying to connect with the jury.
And if you’ve seen “Monkâ€, you will learn what kind of picture the photojournalist take to sell photos. Like the Vulture and the Kid.
I would like to see that invisible director in this teleserye.
justice league on Sun, 24th Feb 2008 12:01 pm
Ca T,
I also posted my actual reply in the latest thread too.
ramrod on Sun, 24th Feb 2008 11:33 pm
The Cat,
The title is just “Bones” and regarding the JOURNALIST, THE VULTURE, AND THE CHILD – the journalist won a Pulitzer alright but committed suicide three months later, perhaps because of guilt, as he didn’t do anything to help the child, focused apathy…trabaho lang…
And real life is a drama, there are no directors…there are people who are involved, get involved, and then there are spectators…focused apathy…
ramrod on Mon, 25th Feb 2008 9:05 pm
GLORIA RESIGN!
Mita on Wed, 27th Feb 2008 12:17 am
ramrod, wag! there’s a real chance good evidence like a multi-million dollar (nalula ako) money trail can be produced…I need closure!
Jonas on Thu, 28th Feb 2008 11:39 pm
Sec. Neri called Greedy Arroyo “evil.” Gov. Joey Salceda called her “bitch.”
I’m right all along. Nuon ko pa tinatawag si Greedy Arroyo na isang
Mandarambong, Tulisan, Ahas, Masiba, Halang ang Bituka, Ipokrita, Magnanakaw, Sinungaling, Impakta, Makapal ang Apog, Panget, Apeng, Makapal ang Mukha, Dayukdok, Bitch, Haragan, Putaching, Hudas, Hestas, Barabas, Mandaraya, Demonya, Plastic, Hidhid, Talamak, Garapal, Dorobo, Gahaman, Busabos, Matakaw, Traydor, Ganid, atbp.
Bakit ko sinabi ‘yan?
Meron bang hinarap na akusasyon ‘yan na giniba at pinawalang saysay niya dahil pinakita n’yang siya ay inosente at mapapagkatiwalaan ng taong bayan? WALA.
‘Yung sa Garci tape issue nga e umamin pa hilaw pa. “I am sorry” daw pero hindi pa inamin ang kabuuan kung bakit siya nagso-sorry.
Kapag ganyan ka-busabos ang lider dapat na talagang mag-resign!