The Witness
February 8, 2008 by mlq3
Filed under Events Mode
Here is the transcript of his early morning press conference held at LaSalle Greenhills. Details in abash*t: The backstage of Rock Ed Philippines, in the entry Tired Brave Heart. and a photo page, JUN LOZADA, witness.
A background briefing by Newsbreak: Lozada: Benjamin Abalos and Mike Arroyo Behind Broadband Deal Overprice. A profile in the Inquirer: Just a ‘probinsyanong Intsik’
Lozada’s early morning presscon derailed plans in place by Michael Defensor to have held an afternoon press conference in which Lozada would then be made to read the government-prepared affidavits that out to lie any previous affidavits. That same evening, the President;s husband was obvious informed the coast is clear. Which have been the case if government minders hadn’t let down their guards and which allowed Lozada to contact friends who came forward and made the early morning press con possible.
late morning to mid-afternoon yesterday I was in the office of Senator Allan Peter Cayetano where Jun Lozada is being kept preparatory to his appearance before the Senate. It’s the first time I’ve encountered the man. He looked tired, his eye-bags were already purplish, and he was, understandably, rather high-strung, at times breaking down and sobbing as he recounted the ordeal he’s undergone -and which is continuing- and he said he was too tense to sleep and keep down his food properly. He had a firm handshake but his hand was clammy.
He will testify before the Senate, today, under oath, and so concerning the details of his being sent to Hong Kong, his stay there, his decision to come back, and what happened to him from the time the plane landed and he finally had his early morning press conference, we’ll all know his version of events soon enough.
What I did ponder upon, as I heard him recount recent events, is that there are many kinds of pressure that can be applied on a person to bend them to one’s will, and not all of them require brute force or overt threats.
Watching him and talking to him, I recalled something my father told me when I a small boy. I once asked him, what is courage? And he replied by telling me a story about his own father when they were on Corregidor. In the midst of the tunnel being shelled, he said his father spotted him cringing and biting his lip in fear; and his father told him that the truly brave man is not the man who doesn’t feel fear, but rather, the man who is filled with terror but does his duty anyway.
I can appreciate Lozada’s courage. Make no mistakes, he has faced among the worst kinds of peril I can imagine: a combined crisis of conscience, fears for his own life and that of his loved ones, the end of a career, the hostility of some friends and the harsh judgment of powerful patrons, uncertainty whether his answering the cries of his own conscience aren’t a foolhardy exercise. Being in such a pressure-cooker situation, contemplating the prospects of a kind of not only professional and financial suicide but of embarking on a sacrifice the public won’t even recognize -or possibly even deserve- whether at the end of a chain of events one initiated or in which one was swept up… Well, it’s enough to destroy anyone. His is the dilemma of a proud, perhaps overconfident man who has had to realize he is nowhere as clever, nimble, and important as he thought he was.
Let me explain what I mean by this, and these are all impressions.
To me, Lozada is no saint, or put another way, he represents the kind of man who finds himself at the center of great events, yet who could never have expected he would gain fame in such a perilous manner. He is the kind of man who doesn’t hold the actual power but who has access to those who wield power -and more importantly, has done so because he’s proven himself competent at certain things, and who thus holds a certain amount of authority.
And so, he is the kind of Useful Man who then believes that his competence and limited authority allows him to pull a kind of fast one in that, he can both tolerate a certain level of official wrongdoing, and yet accomplish something beneficial, because his efforts somehow mitigates the wrongdoing around him. (One of his more quotable quotes was his being advised by Neri to attend meetings to “moderate the greed” or words to that effect). Operating in a perpetual moral twilight, thinking it’s ultimately for the common good, can’t that then start tricking the senses into confusing twilight with the dawn? At least until a ray of light reminds that person of what the light is truly like.
Most of the questions I addressed to him were along these lines: if your work in the government involved tolerating a certain amount of official corruption, then what finally made you decide that a line had been reached you could no longer cross? He tried to explain by means of a parable.
He said that his work takes him to forestry areas and in one such area, he encountered a Dumagat. He pointed out to the Dumagat that the trees were heavily laden with fruit; that the fruit should be sold in the lowland towns. And the Dumagat replied, but those fruits are there to feed the birds. Lozada says he recalled that story when he encountered an official who, not content with the 3 billion Pesos in overpricing he (Lozada) was willing to let the official have, then insisted no, he (the official) should get 7 billion Pesos. That was simply unacceptable.
And again, I had to return to my question -what was the line, then? Essentially, this, Lozada said: percentages -commissions- say, up to 25%- are par for the course in government projects but beyond that, officials insisting on more have simply gone too far: their pound of flesh becomes so large as to deny the public any possible advantages or gains from the project. (This is not a direct quote, I am paraphrasing our exchanges.)
As he was expressing these thoughts I recalled something I’d heard from a defender of Romulo Neri, which was that his attitude, say concerning the North Rail Project, was that a certain amount of corruption was acceptable, so long as the public obtained something beneficial in the end: in this case, a railroad that should be built, anyway, without incurring heavy government obligations.
I must say that I am uncomfortable with his explanation: it makes sense, and on a certain level, yet betrays a kind of hubris. What he said does go to the heart of a very basic line (ultimately, a fluid one) most Filipinos instinctively draw, which is, that there are certain things that are just too crass -too garapal- that once crossed, can’t be tolerated. It is this, more than his obvious intelligence, or his being stuck in a perilous situation, that will resonate with the public. We navigate between our own personal spheres and the official one always conscious of the grey areas, always factoring in a certain amount of official malfeasance, but there always comes a time, even if we aren’t directly affected, when something is too much -too crass to tolerate.
But I do find it troubling that an official relies on a line he himself drew, on a basis that by its very nature must be vague or at least arbitrary, compared to the lines that should be drawn, beyond a shadow of a doubt, by the law. This is the kind of discretion that can result in a line so erasable and movable, that it becomes meaningless. In Lozada’s case he obviously resisted the temptation to keep moving the line, though he stopped moving it quite late -a matter of mere nights ago, possibly? It’s just as well he seems firm, now; it’s too bad he has moved the line so often that any potential benefits arising from his testimony will be that much harder to achieve. I am also under the impression that his personal line also involved whether or not he would have to make statements in public.
So long as everything was in the realm of speculation, did not involve his personally having to testify under oath, he may have thought that prudence was the better part of valor -no sense in seeking some sort of martyrdom. But confronted with a summons he could not ignore, and facing pressure to avoid those summons; and furthermore, realizing that the ultimate response on the part of the administration was not to enable him to permanently avoid those summons, he wouldn’t go as far as perjuring himself, at least not at the point at which he’d personally have to raise his right hand and swear to the veracity of what he would say, before the public.
There are two things about Lozada that will go far, I think, in understanding the distinctions he’s tried to make, and his eventual decision to hold the line once he felt things had gone too far. The first is that he is proud of being a Thomasian, he quotes Thomas Aquinas widely. The second is he is a passionate student of Jose Rizal.
Some snippets from his remarks to people during the hours I was there, to illustrate. Again, these more along the lines of paraphrasing his conversation, as I was taking notes by means of sending text messages to myself.
“Thomas Aquinas said the worst form of corruption is the corruption of the best.”
“We’re a failing state. The obligation of a state is to provide basic services…. Self restraint isn’t there. Checks and balances do not work. Instead, influence peddling moderates the checks and balances.”
“Rizal asked his brother Paciano, did God makes us poor and silent, or we were so misgoverned we ended up that way? Paciano couldn’t answer. Two years later, Rizal wrote to Paciano, and said, in my travels abroad I have the answer: we didn’t get the right kind of government from our leaders.”
“Rizal said there are three requirements for a Just Revolution. First, there must be a great cause, and all peaceful means must be tried to achieve it, and still, all fail; second, prepare for imminent victory, this is why he rejected Bonifacio’s invitation to join the revolution, they’d left too much to chance without thinking of what would happen afterwards; third, we must have an educated population otherwise the slaves of today will be the tyrants of tomorrow.And also, you must be prepared to erase every shred of the system you overthrow.”
“We must make it too expensive for someone to screw up the country. Only then will the next person will have second, third, fourth thoughts about trying to mess the country up.”
“If you want to understand my moral compass, there’s this book I read in which this question was tackled: ‘Why is it that billions have walked the earth while only a few have stood the test of time. And yet those few lived at a time when there were many who were more powerful or famous than them?’ When a group of thinkers examined these people, they identified four polarities. First, they had a Transformative Vision, for example, Christ’s concept of love. Second, they had Courage, even if it meant going against the trend. Third, they had a Firm Grasp of Reality. Fourth, they had Unbending Ethics. The four things form a kind of diamond and with all sides present, you have a formidable leader. But if any side is lacking it’s enough to doom any leader. The book is ‘The Philosophy of Greatness.’”
(A note on how one’s recollection of another’s recollection works in a pressure cooker environment: as he was recounting this, a nun in the room asked him the name of the author of the book; he couldn’t recall; eventually, I tracked down this book: “Leadership: The Inner Side of Greatness, A Philosophy for Leaders, New and Revised” (Peter Koestenbaum) which has an Amazon page which boils down what he was trying to say:
Believing that leadership is a “mindset and a pattern of behaviors” that can be learned and taught, Koestenbaum presents and illustrates the meaning of his “Leadership Diamond.” This consists of “four strategies for greatness”: vision (thinking big and new), reality (having no illusions), ethics (providing service), and courage (acting with sustained initiative).
A reader’s review is even more illuminating, I think, in that it presents what Lozada probably thinks he’s tried to do, regardless of whether his peers or the facts bears it out:
Koestenbaum presents his approach in a didactic manner, yet never underestimating his audience, utlizing a model for Leadership values in the form of a four vertex diamond: Vision, at the top, encompassing the ability to think strategically, but also to understand others with different cultures and realities than our own; Courage at the bottom, which surprisingly represents not heroic, one-time achievements but rather sustained initiative, the ability to focus on an objective throughout life; Reality on the left, comprehending the ability to deal with hard facts, but also the understanding of the paradoxical nature of life; and, last but not least, Ethics, which beyond anything represents empathy and stewardship, service to others as the ultimate way of realizing greatness.
I also noticed that his recollection of the events surrounding his decision to testify in public, seem solid enough, in large part because they withstood constant re-telling).
Again: the person with little actual power but some authority, the person of superior intelligence but inferior social or political status, must either accept his condition as a servant or adorn his existence with the trappings of being a kind of philosopher-king in training; servitude is always an unpleasant existence for the person convinced he has a greater mind and a superior virtue to those he serves; it makes for what some would call a messianic complex and others a hero-in-the-making.
Personally, I believe he is motivated by patriotism, and that he subscribes to the notion that he’s reached a point he did not want to arrive at, but the challenges of which he must embrace. But part of the blame, part of the peril he faces, was the making of people like himself, who thought that he could somehow outwit those who may be dull of mind and insatiable in their appetites, but who have the means to hire brains to counter his and wield force which settles any possible debate with finality.
I do think he was treated very badly by a government that failed to recognize every man has his limit and that furthermore, which overestimated its capacity to be the master of events just as it thinks it has found the measure of every man. Because there are times when the threat of brute force, or the even more cunningly applied implications of dire consequences, stiffens instead of weakens a person’s resolve to obey a higher law.
Redemption is something every person should have an opportunity to achieve.
But let us see how he testifies under oath; and how he faces up to the cross-examination by the Senators allied with the administration.
As it is, for now, a new phrase has entered our political lexicon: Moderate their greed’ :Instruction refers to Mike Arroyo, Abalos.
For now, may I refer you to the Inquirer editorial for today, and the analysis of Mon Casiple in his blog:
What happened to JDV showed that the Arroyo family is prepared to ruthlessly discard even a top ally who may dissent from its position. It demonstrated the vulnerability of all friends and allies once they doubt or oppose the ruling family. Further, the JDV ouster can be seen as a major–if not a fatal–blow at the independence of the House of Representatives and the building of a genuine political party system.
What happened to Mr. Lozada was something else. It exposed the readiness of the Arroyo family to use the state instrumentalities–even if violative of laws and human rights–for purely political survival imperatives. Malacañang’s subsequent explanations and “evidences†to support an alleged “voluntary request†by Mr. Lozada for protection pale in the face of Lozada’s own story of forced abduction. The actual events support Lozada’a own version, such as the cloak and dagger operation, the denial by Lozada’s own family of such a request, the subsequent urgent motion for a writ of habeas corpus and writ of amparo before the Supreme Court, the contradictory stories of various government officials identified with the abduction, and the renewed Malacañang attack on the Senate investigation of the ZTE-NBN deal.
The panic, desperation, and tenseness evident in the sloppy decisions and executions in these incidents vie for supremacy with the arrogance, ruthlessness, and power-tripping evident in the mind-processes of the decision-makers.
And from Billie Princesa, niece of Lozada, an appeal for prayers.
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inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:27 am
mlq3,
the road to damascus is not paved in sanctity. why would i have any less reason to believe lozada if a whole nation even bought singson’s loadful of crap? i say, let lozada have a fair go if this will put plug to corruption.
tess on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:40 am
“he who has no sin cast the first stone.”
benign0 on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:45 am
“Rizal said there are three requirements for a Just Revolution. First, there must be a great cause, and all peaceful means must be tried to achieve it, and still, all fail; second, prepare for imminent victory, this is why he rejected Bonifacio’s invitation to join the revolution, they’d left too much to chance without thinking of what would happen afterwards; third, we must have an educated population otherwise the slaves of today will be the tyrants of tomorrow.And also, you must be prepared to erase every shred of the system you overthrow.”
I think all our so-called “revolutions” don’t meet any of the above criteria.
Even in the business of “revolution” Pinoys are still hopelessly mediocre.
nash on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:02 am
benign-zero,
and your proposed solutions to this malaise that affects us filipinos?
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:14 am
nash,
see what intellectual masturbation can do: all pleasures, no measures.
Kabayan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:20 am
Benign0 wrote:
“Rizal said there are three requirements for a Just Revolution. First, there must be a great cause, and all peaceful means must be tried to achieve it, and still, all fail; second, prepare for imminent victory, this is why he rejected Bonifacio’s invitation to join the revolution, they’d left too much to chance without thinking of what would happen afterwards; third, we must have an educated population otherwise the slaves of today will be the tyrants of tomorrow.And also, you must be prepared to erase every shred of the system you overthrow.â€
——–
If we followed Rizal’s “perfect” route we would still be under Spanish rule till now.
Most of the time, in a social revolution, we have to move and struggle (not necessarily violently of course) so as we evolve into a better nation. Even this struggle with Gloria’s morally bankrupt administration, we have to move and struggle to improve.
As such we know that corrupt political vultures are around ready to pounce once we remove a corrupt government, henceforth this time we as a people should evolve our techniques when such an event occur to protect the ideals of good governance.
While we all struggle with the dark powers that be, in parallel we also properly educate our fellow citizens not only in the technical aspect but more importantly in the moral aspect as well.
Even in this current society, I’ve seen many brilliant minds but they are still geared in the immoral belief that it is okay to steal with the alleged purpose of helping the “poor” (Often they define themselves and their relatives as poor). This and many other dark beliefs were spawned as a result of people espousing a morally bankrupt society while currently condoned and promoted by a morally bankrupt government.
We just have to move and change for the better at the fastest way possible but also with the long term view in mind through pushing for a good technical and moral grounding and education.
Fight to change for a better and moral society (To remedy present ills); but we must also not forget to strengthen the foundations within (To insure a better evolved future.)
Jeg on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:08 am
and [benign0's] proposed solutions to this malaise that affects us filipinos?
Migrate and stay away from fellow Filipinos in your adopted country if you can help it. That is the gist of benny’s Get Real thesis.
MLQ3, that was an insightful take on the complexities faced by the middle level persons in government, especially the younger, more idealistic ones. All they can try to do is ‘moderate the greed.’
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:44 am
amfufu. nakakakilabot yung kwinento ni Lozada sa pagdukot sa kanya. sa tingin ko, kaya lang siya pinakawalan ay dahil sa mga sumusunod na rason:
1. nalaman ng gobyerno na may nauna na syang affidavit na iniwan exposing what he truly knows
2. natutukan ng media ang pagkawala nya
3. nagising ang senado sa katangahan nila (allowing to be co-opted) at nakita nilang GMA will not stop with this (di titigil ang gobyerno hanggang kay JDV lang)
at higit sa lahat
4. napulsuhan ng tama ng gobyernong ito na kapag di na lumabas si Lozada, sasambulat ang opinyon ng taumbayan laban sa kanila. parang yung sa cha-cha, faced with certain people power, aatras muna si GMA para mag regroup.
so ang tanong ngayon: hanggang kelan pa ba natin sya papabayaang mag regroup? kapag di na sya mapigilan? kapag ikaw na ang nakararanas ng naranasan ni Lozada?
complacency kills.
Jowana Balana Bueser on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:22 pm
He! He! Ang kulit ng mga sagot ni Lozada. Sana lahat ng isalang sa senate hearing tulad niya – hindi boring
The Ca t on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:25 pm
from the testimony, i do not see any abduction.
kahit abduction ng alien from outer space.Wala. Sheesh na mga speculations sa previous thread.
what i read was that he really sought the help of Atienza and he was sent to HK and was fetched at the MIAA upon coming home to be brought to LA Salle.
Tapos nagtago sa skirt ng mga madre.
Kabayan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:27 pm
DevilsAdvc8 :
“so ang tanong ngayon: hanggang kelan pa ba natin sya papabayaang mag regroup? kapag di na sya mapigilan? kapag ikaw na ang nakararanas ng naranasan ni Lozada?
complacency kills.”
Nadale mo, di yan sila titigil, ang pilosopiya nila, “attain absolute power and control at all cost”
Unang una plano sila ng kalokohan
Ikalawa pag may pinaplano silang kalokohan at mabisto, ide-deny muna nila at baka pumalpak ang plano.
Ikatatlo kakaibiganin at makikipagusap muna sila sa target nila
Ikaapat, sasaksakin nila sa likod ang target nila
Ikalima, sasaksakin nila uli at baka buhay pa
Ikaanim, ide-deny nila na sila ang may kasalanan sa pagsasaksak
Ikapito, balik uli sila sa pagpaplano ng kalokohan
Mike on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:27 pm
Whoa, only two posts in the last couple of hours! Is everyone listening to Lozada?
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:27 pm
So Lozada is just like the rest of them after all…..
He has some questionable dealings of his own, which he admits to. His track record isn’t clean.
He won’t file kidnap or abduction charges.
Hearsay which won’t be substantiated and a refusal to take the accusatioons to the proper legal courts…we’ve seen this movie before. Another circus.
Kabayan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:40 pm
Geo,
Don’t matter if Lozada is a sinner just as long as he is a contrite and remorseful sinner. If all sinners in government start doing the same thing, to be remorseful, confess and change, then true change will come and our nation shall be blessed.
Currently many of the evilly corrupt still continue on their wayward ways, hence we are still cursed … as such the struggle continues.
BrianB on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:43 pm
If Lozada is really an ordinary Filipino, I think this country is OK.
What’s wrong with Madrigal. I assume rich-born people like her have grace. Naka promise nanga Senado na hangang 12:30 lang eh, tanong pa nang tanong.
BrianB on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:46 pm
This testimony by Lozada is a genuine must-see. This is the TV appearance of the year.
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:48 pm
Many sinners are remorseful when they are caught. A true “rehabilitated” sinner should voluntarily confess his sins which are NOT known.
Plus he just said during the last few days that he “cannot lie; doesn’t know how to lie”.
He cries a lot, though. Not many tears come out, though.
Again: Why not file charges re kidnapping? That should be the easy way to hit the government.
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:51 pm
I hope he is for real. And Ihope too that something good will come out of this.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:51 pm
Cat,
ironic nga eh. na Lozada was willing all along to “toe the govt line” (sinabi nya to ha) only to be spooked by that “whisking away” incident. obvious nga eh di kidnapping dahil may usapan sila ni atienza.
pero ang nangyari, nagkaron ng miscommunication. in the end, akala ni lozada, for liquidation na sya, or tinalikuran na sya ng malacanang – Cat, i wait while ikaw naman mapunta sa sitwasyon na ganyan, and then i wait kung san ka magtatagong saya.
what forced lozada to change his mind and go agst the “government line?”
unlike Neri, he saw that “this thing will never end.” sabi nya, “pag sumama ako sa kanila, kasali na ako sa kanila ng buong-buo (or to that effect)
Neri threw his lot with the govt and decided na sumali na ng buong-buo sa gobyerno, good, bad, and the ugly. Lozada refused to be tormented forever.
alam nyo ba kung bat DevilsAdvc8 handle ko? dahil dun sa pelikula, the theme revolved around the battle of good and evil for the conscience of one man.
and that battle never ends.
so, ano ngayon kung di malinis ang track record ni Lozada? ang punto, inadmit nya na may mga pagkakamali sya. pangalawa, totoo pa rin ang sinasabi nya. at pangatlo, pano siya magfa file ng abduction at kidnapping charges kung in between truth and lie ang charge na iyan.
nag request nga sya na magpasundo, ang kaso yung mga sumundo sa kanya di nya naman kilala.
between a mafia man who lies and a mafia man who tells the truth, which would you choose?
remember that mob bosses were sent to jail on the testimonies of their once colleagues.
did it matter that the witnesses had less than clean records or even conscience? no, what mattered was that the statement they were bringing was the truth.
and watching lozada speak, i can say he’s telling the truth. makita mo pa lng kung pano sya mag recount nung kwento nya, he’s recounting from memory. halata mo pag fabricated eh.
and besides as mlq3 put it, his story withstood re-telling. kahit pabali-baligtarin mo sya, pareho pa rin ang kwento nya.
eh ang malacanang, simula nung mawala si lozada, mismong sila eh nawindang sa mga pinagsasasabi nila. si Razon parang may pigsa sa puwet na di mapakali sa mga presscon nya. ganyan ba ang mga nagsasabi ng totoo?
BrianB on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:53 pm
Should I say, Welcome to America?
hawaiianguy on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:54 pm
Geo,
Better wait until Lozada has fully come to his senses and said his piece to the senate. Don’t jump into a conclusion when you don’t have a handle of how things will unfold.
Kabayan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 12:57 pm
Geo,
Lozada did not get caught, he surrendered to the Senate because he does not trust the goons which Praetor Razon sent to “escort” him (Listen to Lozada’s statement if what they did even qualifies as being an “escort”.) He fears the touch of death of this administration.
As for validity of crying with many tears coming out, that does not even really deserve an answer; that is if you believe that crying actors “tortured” in movies are experiencing real pain.
Relax Geo, one step at a time, there was just too much crime being exposed and they can only handle a piece at a time.
BrianB on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 1:05 pm
Guys, why overburden the fact – ehm, impression that Lozada’s is a very believable statement. It’s not as good as that Hello Garci tape as far as being evidence but for emotional effect, this is definitely a nuclear blast.
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 1:11 pm
I’ll withhold final judgement until this latest chapter is complete…that’s fair, Hawaiian. But so far, he has added little solid evidence on anything.
Kabayan — I was referring to his admitted (now; once caught) anomalous activities in The Forest Corp. That wasn’t volunteered and runs counter to his recent emotional outpouring for “the love of the country”.
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 1:14 pm
kahit naman siguro ako mag sa-sign din ng antedated na affidavit when under threat. kung wala talagang dapat ikatakot ang malacanang sa mga bagay na ito bakit di nila hayaan ang senado to do what they are suppose to do. Bakit kailanagan pang pigilan ang mga opisyal ng gobyerno na mag testify. kung may espekulasyon man ang mga tao laban sa kanila lasalanan din nila.
hawaiianguy on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 1:25 pm
Kabayan,
Between a crying Lozada with less tears coming out (or shedding crocodile tears as Cat said) and an apolgetic Gloria who pretended to look terribly sad as she spoke on TV with her well rehearsed, scripted “I’m sorry,” I give my vote to the the guy. He speaks spontaneously as he tells his “truth”.
At least, he is not an incorrigible liar and cheat. As we can sense, Lozada admitted playing rough and thought he would be ok like Neri. One big mistake of Atienza, or Razon, is to get some unknown “henchmen” pick up Lozada from NAIA. That’s why Lozada was not crying “kidnap,” but it scared him no end.
Without the writ, the nuns, media people and other concerned parties, Lozada might have been a dead meat by now. Their timely confluence saved him.
Abangan!
Floyd Buenavente on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 1:39 pm
Now the question is had it been approved (the commission being cut in half) and the project went underway would Lozada act differently?
If Lozada had even half of the commission will it also be considered as “moderated greed†or “Greed Controlled: Mission Success� Would it add to his resume of doing something moderately right for the Filipinos?
The Equalizer on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 1:53 pm
Expect the following:
1)The Abduction of Jun Lozada shows that PIDAL INC. will not hesitate to employ the massive resources of government to intimidate our citizens.
The TRUTH will will be suppressed at all costs!
2)Orchestrated Demolition Job on Jun Lozada:Senator Miriam,as expected,has started questioning the credibility of Lozada by exposing “his sins” in his Philippine Forest Corporation job ,grilling Lozada even on the purchase of “mestizo goats” in his projects.
Expect more demolition from Senator Enrile,Senator Joker Arroyo ,Secretary Ronnie Puno and Secretary Lito Atienza.Of course,Secretary Bunye .
Expect the spin doctors to peddle LIES and,HALF-TRUTHS about Lozada to destroy his credibility.
3)The Massive “cover-up job” on the ZTE project.Romy Neri,initially a whistle-blower,is now part of the cover-up job.
A conspiracy of silence.Scapegoats (like Abalos) will be sacrificed to protect the Pidal Inc.
4)ZTE-NBN is just the tip of the iceberg.Watch out for the expose on the South Rail,Cyber-Ed,etc.
5)EO464 will be used to block more vital witnesses from the Senate hearings.
6)”Moderate the greed” means put a ceiling on the bribes but still allow Pidal Inc. to rake it in.
Every project apparently has at least a 22% margin for the First Greed (FG).
7)The public ,as expected, will forget the bravery of Jun Lozada.Pinoys are a people with short memory!This story will grab a few headlines.
Will we remember it,say, by next month?
8)The show will go on.
The Pidals will exhort the public “Let’s Move On!” and accuse everybody else of destabilizing!
9)The Church will take a more assertive stance if something happens to Jun Lozada in the future.
Watch out the nuns and priests in the streets again.
10)We will remain apathetic.(Yawn)
Dr Emer on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 1:53 pm
We all hope this provides the effective spark which will initiate the overdue change we have been longing for so long. True courage should not go to waste.
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:07 pm
tingin ko kay lozada hindi tactful. banggit ng banggit ng pangalan kahit hindi connected sa zte.
baka pangalan ko madamay pa!
balatucan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:10 pm
The Ca t :
“from the testimony, i do not see any abduction.
kahit abduction ng alien from outer space.Wala. Sheesh na mga speculations sa previous thread.”
I do not know what abduction meant to you. Eh klarong klaro yung ginawa ng mga tao ni Atienza. He was prevented from meeting his family, his movement and calls were monitored, and he did not know where he was taking them.
Tapos pina pirma pa siya ng mga affidavits. These affidavits were the ones presented by Atienza in their press con. So the dots are now connected.
tonio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:11 pm
i like this new actor. the tears and the quotations and all.
but unless he starts giving out hard facts, his time on stage may be cut short.
leah on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:14 pm
why is ANC wasting time showing the liars?
go back to the senate
balatucan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:15 pm
Sabi ni Atienza they are fetching Lozada to protect him? to protect him from whom?
Eh kung nag pro protect sila kay Lozada ba’t ayaw nila itong makausap ang pamilya. Ba’t pinasyal pa nila hanggang Cavite.
At bakit pina pirma ng mga affidavits na naghingi siya ng tulong. Eh klarong klaro they want to legitimize their acts.
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:18 pm
….mga opportunists nag-aabang lang ng panahon.
wala rin eh.
sana makagawa sila ng mga batas hinggil sa ginagawa ng senado.
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:19 pm
does he have documents to prove his allegations?
or will we just take it like religion?
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:26 pm
….wala rin kayang mga kick”bucks” sa senado o congress?
sana may lumantad na witness….hehehehe para maimbestigahan nila.
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:32 pm
tingnan mo nga naman, sabi niya nagpunta sya kay atienza humihingi ng tulong na ayaw nyang sumipot sa senado kaya sya ginawan ng travel papers. ngayon iba na ang tuno. hindi na nya inaako na kaparte sya sa panloloko ng travel papers nya.
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:40 pm
I have just realized that accusations without hard facts and evidence is just like the afternoon tsismis programs on our local tv by lolit solis or christy fermin..
many believe it because its controversial.. because certain circumstances fit in.. not because they have proof or evidence..
if there is one sad part of this story it is that more and more educated and conversant Filipinos are accepting statements and making conclusions without need for proof or evidence..
i myself have made the same errors whether i was doing it in defense or against something..
boy.. how wrong was i..
The Ca t on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:41 pm
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:44 pm
MALABO TALAGA ANG KINASADLAKAN NI LOSADA.
hinay-hinay lang sa pagdaldal….
The Ca t on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:45 pm
According to his testimony, he approached Atienza because he does not want to testify. Tapos nagyon pinalalabas ni Lacson na he’s doing it for the country. Phlease, tell that to marines. I hate seeing man crying. So many tears have been shed in so many investigations by COngress. Nasaan na yong mga umiyak na yon?
Mike on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:50 pm
Liam:
His testimony has to be viewed against the other pieces of evidence, including (but not limited to):
1. His position, acknowledged by Neri, as NEDA consultant involved in the project
2. The circumstances of his abduction (that IS what it was, Ca T)
3. The questionable transformation of the NBN project from B-O-T to loan
He’s not just some guy. He’s like Frankie Pentangeli testifying (before the Senate!) that Michael Corleone is the Godfather of the Corleone Mafia clan. Pentangeli’s evidence was his own word as a credible witness.
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:50 pm
Liam Tinio,
Paano mo kaya lalagyan ng kasulatan ang kickback na 130m usd. Kung maisusulat nga lang sa contract na out of theprice of 329m usd 132m kay Abalos di wala na sanang imbestigasyon. Siguro naman hindi kailangan pa ang hard evidence dyan sapat na na nag corraborate ang statement nina JDV3 at saka Lozada about the deal. And just look at how malacanang is handling this issue. Kung talagang wlang anomalya bakit ki-nansel ang contrata.
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 2:59 pm
alaskadora,
well.. formoso on anc has answered your question about the alleged overprice of 130m USD..
that is because the 260m USD only covers 30% of the estimated range of the project.. and to cover the entire philippines for a true ‘national’ broadband network the additional 130m USD has to be added..
i have yet to receive the data by which they are taking the government’s assumption.. but at least, they have public documents that can be actionable if proven to be incorrect, wrong or just crafted..
from how i see it, lozada and devenecia only has their words as proof.. while the govt have papers and documents duly signed..
but i will not make a conclusion until i get the hard data published.. i am now asking you to do the same..
LET US GET HARD EVIDENCE FIRST BEFORE COMING UP WITH HILARIOUS STATEMENTS
pirate on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:01 pm
so anong gagawin natin ngayon?
as usual di na naman papalag ang pilipino.
habang buhay tayong nakatuwad.
Mike on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:01 pm
Ca T,
He may not have wanted to testify at first, but the behavior of his “protectors” (preventing him from seeing and contacting his family, bringing him to Cavite) probably convinced him that turning himself over to the Senate was the better way to save his life.
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:02 pm
MALABO TALAGA!!
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:04 pm
Mike,
in the case of the Mafiosi in the US, they resorted to relying on testimony because the there is no available documents which would support his allegations.
and in this case, THERE ARE DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE that can be scrutinized and examined and can be taken to the courts.
his word vs evidence? i would take evidence anytime
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:07 pm
PARANG OKEY LANG SA KANYA KUNG BALATO!
OH MY!
Mike on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:07 pm
Liam:
If 260m is 30% of the whole project, then you don’t add 130m to make 100%. You add 636m. Perhaps Formoso learned his math from COMELEC.
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:07 pm
Pirate,
file charges in the courts. give it to the supreme court.
this was the same stand i took when they ousted erap in 2001. you have to let legal action continue and take place. because it is the ONLY form of justice where we can really achieve closure.
if you say SC will be biased, then its clear that you are ignorant on how the SC crafts its decisions.
The Ca t on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:08 pm
The circumstances of his abduction (that IS what it was, Ca T)
May inabduct bang nakakagamit ng cell phone at kumakain sa public resto?
Sheesh
Mike on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:10 pm
Liam:
So why believe Pentangeli if there are no documents?
In any case, NEDA isn’t releasing the documents the Senate has been asking for. Isn’t that suspicious?
Willy on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:12 pm
“Moderate the greed” – what a nice turn of phrase.
I can’t help imagining a scene of a rampaging pack of hungry lions around you, and there you are in the middle with a puny stick to ward them off.
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:14 pm
Mike,
formoso also explained why the additional 130m was not proportional to the 260m earlier presented for the 30%
the 260m includes the construction of data centers, the training of personnel, establishment of a technical and support system and the construction of the necessary infrastructure.
to cover the additional 70% YOU DONT NEED TO BUILD ANOTHER DATA CENTERS AND BUILD ANOTHER SUPPORT STRUCTURE. YOU JUST NEED TO BUILD ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRAIN ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL.
if you would just listen to what the govt panel said its pretty justifiable. all we need are the said documents.
funny your math logic
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:15 pm
Mike
suspicious but certainly actionable
what happened to benefit of the doubt?
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:18 pm
….pagdaan daw nila sa south superhighway naalala nya daw si DACER!
di nya ba alam na nakatunganga lang sa kanya ang SUSPECT!
hahahahaha! ano kaya ang facial expression ng DACER KILLING SUSPECT kung pinakita ng ANC yong mamang SUSPECT!
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:20 pm
di lang SUSPECT, MASTERMIND pa!
hehehehehe
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:22 pm
how i wish i could edit my posts..
“another data centers” << piff my english s*cks
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:25 pm
…nakakulong na nga ‘yong isa sa USA, ibang kaso nga lang. GUILTY pa.
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:28 pm
Liam Tinio,
of course, by all means the governmnt will have to justify the price of 329 m usd. The contact must appear clean. nowhere in the contract will anybody find provision for overprice so that FG and Abalos get their share of the fill. One can only agree on the circumstances sorounding the deal and the circumstances that LOzada, the unwitting witness had gone through. Only the the hardcore government lackey will try so hard to discredit these hard facts.
Mike on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:29 pm
Liam:
So what do 30% and 70% refer to? 30% and 70% of what exactly?
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:29 pm
na-mention na naman ang DACER ni aquino III….
mang_isko on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:42 pm
napressure na pala sya ng kapatid nya na kinausap ni lacson!
greenblooded on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:46 pm
i just noticed that there had been a resurrection of pro-GMA forces in the blogging world, not just in this site..
probably using palace computers…
been a blog lurker for years, and it just fascinates me how the orcs resurfaces everytime the dark goddess is in hot water..
or i might be wrong. im just a lowly, innocent student who likes observing blogs.
balatucan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 3:54 pm
“The Cat
Ang abduction ay yong kinuha siya nang sapilitan. Eh meron pa siyang travel order na nakuha. Sheesh.”
Eh peke naman yung mga travel order na ginagawa. Wala namang meeting. Itinago siya.
You ask a lawyer what is abduction. It does not necessarily mean you are forced.
Danielle on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 4:13 pm
What do you think will happen to that Atty. Bautista who told Lozado to sign the affadavit when Lozado told him he had reservations on the accuracy of the statements made. In effect was he letting him commit perjury?
juancho_juanker on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 4:26 pm
I work in IT management for one of the biggest bank in the world. 130 million for a data center? we just built one in Hong Kong that will cater for transactions of 52 countries, for a third of that money.
Liam Tinio on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 5:08 pm
Mike
the percentages refers to the COVERAGE
260M USD covers 30% of the country
add 130M USD to cover the remaining 70%
Juancho
i did not say they need the additional 130m USD for
another data center.. as i remember there will be
3 data centers that will be built and this is included
in the 230m USD which will have a coverage of 30%..
the 130m USD is needed to build the infrastructure needed
to cover the remaining 70%
so if you look at the numbers, it will actually be cheaper to cover the remaining 70% since the CORE infrastructure has already been built through the 230m USD
and juancho, the data center will not just be a commercial or financial data center.. it will also be used for telephony, fax, video conferencing.. as well as become a repository of government documents forms and basically the national archives.. and add military intranet as well as the dbm, dof and the bot network backbone.. imagine the dedicated SC and hardware for the logs alone..
im sure your bank, global as it is, cannot compare with the amount and the variety of data that these data centers will process..
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 5:30 pm
If indeed the cost of 329m usd is justified why in the hell the project was shelved. The project will do the country so much good, why not proceed with it.
balatucan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 5:50 pm
alas ka dora,
Yeah, why they shelved it if it was aboveboard?
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 6:00 pm
Copied from my mail this pm. I think the humor is up to the time.
Para sa lahat ng PINOYS!
Kung Pinoy si Noah….
…Ganito ang mangyayari sa barko. Read along…
Taong 2007 at isang ordinaryong middle class Pinoy si Noah. Nagpakita sa kanya ang Diyos at sinabing “Pagkatapos ng isang taon ay bubuhos ang
ulan at babahain ang buong kapuluan ng Pilipinas. Gusto kong gumawa ka ng isang malaking
arko at isakay mo rito ang pares-pares na mga hayop at mga mag-asawang pilipino sa iba’t ibang kapuluan.”
Ibinigay kay Noah ang “specs” ng arko at taos puso nitong tinanggap ang responsibilidad na sagipin ang sambayanang Pilipino sa napipintong pagbaha.
Lumipas ang taon, muling nagpakita ang Diyos kay Noah. Walang arkong nagawa si Noah
at galit na galit siyang tinanong ng Diyos,
“Nasaan ang arko na ipinagawa ko sa iyo? “Tumugon si Noah,”Patawarin po ninyo ako kung di po natupad ang utos ninyo! Nagkaroon po ng malaking problema sa plano po ninyo .”
At inilahad ni Noah ang mga sagabal na nakaharap niya sa pag-gawa ng arko.
Humingi siya ng Mayor’s permit pero papayag lang daw si Mayor kung ang gagawa ng arko ay ang construction firm ng kanyang pamangkin. Tumungo siya sa Congressman
pero papayag lang daw si Congressman kung may matatanggap siyang
30% commission. Nagtayo ng unyon ang mga kinuha niyang manggagawa at nag-strike.
Natunugan ng mga left-leaning groups ang kanyang balak at ang mga ito ay nag-rally dahil daw sa hindi makatarungang pagpili ng mga taong sasakay sa arko (mga taong naniniwala lang sa Diyos ang pwedeng sumakay). Nakisali sa rally ang mga bakla at tomboy dahil bias daw na normal na mag-asawa lang ang pwedeng sumakay.
Ang civil society group ay nakisali na rin sa gulo dahil napag-alaman daw nila na ang pondong gagamitin sa paggawa ng arko ay galing sa donasyon ng
mga gambling lords at katas ng hueteng
Sa kaguluhang ito ay napilitang magpatawag ng hearing ang senado “in aid of legislation”.
Sinubukan ni Noah na gamitin ang EO 464 para makaiwas sa hearing pero dahil hindi sya executive official, napilitan siyang tumistigo.
Nang malaman ng senado na utos ng Diyos ang pagpapagawa ng arko, dineklara nila itong unconstitutional dahil hindi raw nito iginalang ang separation ng church at state
.
Nakialam na rin ang NBI at PNP at sinabi nilang meron silang impormasyon na ang barko
raw na ito ay gagamitin ni Erap sa kanyang pagtakas. Sinabi naman ng ISAFP at DOJ na ito raw ay gagamitin ng grupong Magdalo sa binabalak nilang coup laban kay Arroyo. Nilapitan ni Noah si Mike Defensor para makipag-usap kay GMA. Payag daw si GMA na ituloy ang arko kung ipapaskil daw sa arko ang malaking mukha ni Arroyo
na may slogan “Towards a Strong Republic”. “Hindi po ako pumayag kaya hanggang ngayon po ay may TRO ang pag-gawa ng arko.
Sa palagay ko po kailangan ko pa ng 10 taon para matapos ang inyong proyekto”. Ang huling wika ni Noah. Napa-iling ang Diyos at sinabing, “Di ko na kailangang wasakin pa ang bansang ito. Hayaan ko na lang kayong sumira nito.”
tagabukid on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 6:13 pm
Moderate their greed = Wag naman masyadong GANID!
Magtira naman kayo ng para sa taumbayan…
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 6:37 pm
kung palulusitin pa ito ng mga pilipino, mswerte si arroyo
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 6:38 pm
or should i say sinuswerte si arroyo
satan on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 6:59 pm
Pact with the devil! Her soul is mine!
marichu c. lambino on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:05 pm
Quote for the day at the Senate investigation of the ZTE deal, afternoon session:
Senator Honasan to witness: So…ikaw ba yung…the explainer doon?
Rodolfo “Jun†Lozada: Sir?… Sir hindi ho, si Manolo Quezon ho yon…
(laughter) (Hi Manolo, just saying hi! – marichu)
The Ca t on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:13 pm
Even a lawyer without bell (hindi abogado de campanilla ) will tell you that abduction is holding a person against his person’s will. kaya nga abduction at hindi elopement kung sa babae.
ibig mo sigurong sabihin without the use of force.
nash on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:14 pm
Sino itich? Is Lozada a Lacson witness?
Kasi, mga witness ni Lacson puro kuryente lang. Hanggang powerpoint presentation tapos bigla nalang mawawala yung witness. Wa tuloy denouement .
cvj on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:26 pm
Liam, Mike, the 130 Million USD (that Abalos wanted to ‘protect’) is included in the 262 Million USD that covers the original scope.
cvj on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:30 pm
The contract price upon signing ended up to be 329 million (which is 67 million USD on top of 262 Million). This portion is what is in question as to whether this amount was added because of additional coverage or as added kickback.
Dog cornered cat on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:36 pm
cAt,
Talagang kinidnap si Lozada at may obstruction of justice. Hindi mo get yun? Para kang si Bunye o Apostol (name sounds ironic) na ayaw maniwala.
Dog cornered cat on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:47 pm
“telling a lie” is systemic na dito sa ating gobyerno, sobra na talaga! The worse is, it developed into a mafia-style practice and proliferates in all departments. “Telling a lie” is becoming a norm; an accepted and protected norm. Too bad!!!! Bad example to the next generation of leaders.
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:51 pm
Arroyo flew to davao to avoid the heat in manila.
An hirap ng katayuan ni Lozada beacause Gloria’s minions will press him for hard evidence to back up his claim of kickback on the deal for Abalos and FG. Pero paano mo lalagyan ng ebidensya ang kickback kahit totoo. At isang punto na lang kung talagang malinis yung kontrata at wala naman palang ebidensya sa kickback bakit kinansela?
nash on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 7:55 pm
@dog,
Tama ka po.
Will Defensor come to you and try to convince you to tell the media that you were not ‘abducted’ if you were not?
And since China is showing off to the world that it’s getting tough on corruption, any way that these ZTE officials can be made to testify? An overprice of $130M is a lot even for a big company. Any ideas?
alas ka dora on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:00 pm
kung hindi abduction yun, bakit naman inikot ikot pa si Lozada sa laguna,cavite. bakit hindina lang dinala kung saan gusto ni Lozada. Ang lagay b na yun gusto ni Lozada yung rides na yun. kung hndi sila natunugan ng media siguro for cremation na si lozada ngayon malamang. Tapos hindi abduction. Only the die hard malacanang lackey will believe this.
ricelander on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:05 pm
Liam Tinio,
So you think the project is aboveboard and therefore defensible. If you were the President how would you react to this “scandal”?
As for me, if I were the President I would assemble experts who will defend the project, gather all those involved in every step, get all the documents, and challenge all and everyone to a debate. Number for number. Technology for technology.
What did the government do to defend the project: cancel the project, make part of the documents disappear, invoke executive privilege, and so on and so forth. Looks counterintuitive to me, but it’s probably just me and the few among here.
Anyway, if you were the President, and your bastard enemies are insinuating you are a thief, how would you do it?
The Equalizer on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:11 pm
Ending the Impunity of the Gloria and Jose Pidal!!!
Gloria and Jose Pidal are fond of condemning “destabilizers.” In reality ,the Pidal couple are the biggest destabilizers of the nation as they commit big-time scandals,one after another, with impunity.
* The National Power Corp. (Napocor) -CPK-Kalayaan rehabilitation project.
* The race horse importation fiasco.
* The overpriced Diosdado Macapagal Boulevard exposé.
* Misuse of the fertilizer funds.
* The Philippine Amusement and Gaming Corp. scandals.
* The jueteng scandals.
* The ZTE-NBN scandal .
* The Bribery of Governors and Congressmen in Malacanang.
* The MOTHER of ALL SCANDALS: THE HELLO GARCI Mega Scandal that influenced the last Presidential elections.
* The Extra-Judicial Killings of Activists as reported by the United Nations special rapporteur on human rights.
*The Recent Abduction of ZTE star witness,Jun Lozada
* And many more…
The problem is not incompetence. It’s inhumanity, cruelty and unbelievable greed.
Their two-fold strategy on every scandal that breaks out in the open:
1)Deny,deny,deny to the bitter end!
2)Exhort the public to forget the scandal(“Case is closed”) and “Move on!”
This Pidal Inc. strategy has always worked time and again!
It’s time to end the impunity of Gloria and Jose Pidal.
We must organize effectively while demanding political accountability. That means depriving Gloria and Jose Pidal and their congressional allies of the power they ruthlessly enjoy.
And that means ending their impunity, so that truth has consequences.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:22 pm
equalizer, you must mean, so that lying has consequences.
well, saying the truth also has consequences, if you’re to nitpick. but good consequences. while – well, you know what lying entails…
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 8:41 pm
So…
…after all was said and done, what is the result of today’s marathon?
No facts or evidence submitted; no new legal charges filed.
Increased agitation within the anti-GMA circles…calling once again for a change in leadership. The media fires have been stoked…but has the general public been affected? We’ll see.
Sorry, but for me, I still see today as another TV re-run. A daytime soap opera re-run.
I hate being/sounding so cynical (I’m an optimist, actually), but was today just a big waste of time? Bunch of hot air signifying nothing? Kinda seems like it.
Even the abduction accusation — which I thought would be the admin’s Achilles heel — fell flat. No charges filed…that’s ridiculous.
Bah, Lozada was a flop. He might now even get charged with estafa, malfeasance, corruption, whatever due to his admitted actions while in the employ of the government.
Well, at least it was watchable TV (though I feel guilty about not doing any work today).
justice league on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:10 pm
Geo,
His self incrimination is not enough for such charges.
Unless he is going to be charged for the sake of charging him; the crimes will have to be proven.
And there could be a lot of “collateral” damage in proving those crimes.
Dog cornered cat on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:21 pm
Quoting Nash: “any way that these ZTE officials can be made to testify? An overprice of $130M is a lot even for a big company. Any ideas? ”
…Yeah, good question. We can solicit for more ideas from others. Can we propose to the Chinese government (thru our Senate) to investigate these ZTE officials? I’m no expert in diplomacy & Philippine-China government agreements but I think it’s possible. The testimonies from these key officials will be useful…but I don’t think & it’s unthinkable that the Executive branch will initiate such probe.
One big problem in ferreting for truth is this government’s twisted belief of equating such action to power grabbing… may they be enlightened!!
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:32 pm
justice,
You are probably right — Lozada won’t be attacked…as an admin attack might backfire, image-wise (and, as you say, might accidentally ensnare allies).
But Lozada admitted that the company he owns (founded?) went into contracts with the gov controlled corp that he heads. That’s a more solid start than anything presented so far in this ZTE drama.
The truth is: There is a lotta dirty biz in government procurement. That’s for sure. Though it’s not exclusive to the Philippines, we only care about what’s going on here. And it sucks. It rots. It’s killing us. It takes a huge bite out of the economy and the welfare of the people.
Listen to Lozada himself: There is a “permissible” level of corruption in gov purchasing. Look at his role — to mediate it. Look at him do it himself.
There IS a disease. But pretending that this is limited to a particular transaction, office, institution or regime is BS. The probs run much deeper than this.
The hardest thing to swallow is…the solution will take quite a lotta time and effort to take root and succeed. Those who are selling a short-term and sudden turn-around might be selling something that sounds too good to believe.
And you (hopefully) know what that means….
…caveat emptor.
zhazam2003 on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:34 pm
May the force be with you all !!! would anyone of us believe the result of DOJ probe on the ZTE scam? But it seems that will be the way to go. As this point in time the DOJ chief Gonzlez has already a prejudice saying that there is no direct link to FG. Hay buhay,nothing will change unless we stop blogging and make our presence felt by Malacanang boys.. Apostol ,in display of arrogance,said that ” intsik pala siya ,dapat i deport” not knowing that tomorrow ,Their chinese elections benefactors like Sy’s , gokongwei and Lucio Co might react to this. “KILL DARTH VADER”!!!!
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:45 pm
“One big problem in ferreting for truth is this government’s twisted belief of equating such action to power grabbing… may they be enlightened!!”
–Dog cornered cat
—————————————————-
The problem is that much of the “ferreting for truth” HAS been power-grabbing moves.
An enlightened public should demand facts and reject BS.
I wish we could push a “re-set” button and start anew today:
From now on, accusers must produce evidence or shut up. The slightest (proven) inappropriate behavior by a public official should trigger heavy, heavy penalties. Media should help us with this…but should suffer extreme penalties for false or misleading stories.
May we be enlightened!
Jun Dadagdag on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:51 pm
Here’s a tribute to Mr. Lozada…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNfzITqgWoo
pinoy on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 9:55 pm
This bothers me.
Questioned by Senator Loren Legarda, Lozada says he is privy to the contents of a conversation Neri had with President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo in which Neri reported Abalos’ attempt to bribe him. Lozada, however, refused to divulge what he knew about the conversation, saying it had been given in confidence to him.
Is his love for country below Neri’s confidence in him?
The Equalizer on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:00 pm
deviladv8:Truth is painful to the Pidals.
ricelander on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:10 pm
Facts? Evidence? I suppose anything supporting that which questions what you think is true are not. That which you call enlightenment is that which agree with your idea, lest they are not facts–impressions out of the blue.
Care to explain why, it seems to me at least, they’re scrambling, confused, and agitated. I am looking for impression of confidence and strength, like that of a rock, which they say exude from an innocent man.
Anonymous on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:11 pm
What proof is needed to prove Lozada’s allegations? What proof did the banker that saw Erap sign as Velarde?
Anonymous on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:14 pm
Clarissa Ocampo’s testimony was accepted. Why shouldn’t Lozada’s testimony be accepted?
ricelander on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:17 pm
I was asking Geo.
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:21 pm
rice –
The concept of objective proof/evidence is well-known.
The process of establishing such is well-defined.
Anonymous –
I take it you know what proof/evidence/legal process means. But, for the record, I did not think that EDSA 2 was a justifiable action…for these very reasons.
Laws are the foundation of society.
UP n student on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:24 pm
The Opposition should get Scotland Yard to investigate. See below — Pakistan Bhutto investigation.
——
Associated Press
MATTHEW PENNINGTON, Associated Press Writer
Friday Feb 8, 2008
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – Scotland Yard said in a report released Friday that Pakistan’s opposition leader Benazir Bhutto died as a result of a suicide bomb blast, not a gunshot — findings that support the Pakistani government’s version of the events.
Bhutto’s Pakistan People’s Party immediately rejected the British conclusion and repeated its demand for a U.N. investigation.
The British probe also found that a single attacker both fired the shots at Bhutto and detonated the blast by blowing himself up moments later.
UP n student on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:25 pm
Sometimes, the government version stands up to investigation.
Kamoteboy on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:27 pm
Medyo malaking mali ang sinasabing hindi na kailangan ng mga bagong datacenters. Mukhang malaking insulto sa aking simpleng utak pag sinabing 262 million usd can only cover 30% at another 130+ million to cover 70%?
Base sa aking simpleng kaalaman. kung ang ginastos mo e kaya lang ng 300 user e 1000 users pala gagamit syempre KAILANGAN MO DIN DAGDAGAN ANG MGA GAMIT. pang 300 users lang pala yun eh. Wag mong idahilan ang andun na ang infra dahil yung design lang ang andun hindi mga gamit mismo. para din yan karinderya pag mag eexpand ka kunwari ng 70% more capacity kailangan mo din mag dadagdag ng 70% na improvement.
at masyado namang ginawa akong pinanganak kahapon pag sinabing 30% lang e 262 million na ang aabutin. tapos another 130 million na lang para maging 100%.
at isa pa hinding hindi mag ra ride ang military sa civilian networks. tanga na lang ang gagawa nun.
[quote]
nd juancho, the data center will not just be a commercial or financial data center.. it will also be used for telephony, fax, video conferencing.. as well as become a repository of government documents forms and basically the national archives.. and add military intranet as well as the dbm, dof and the bot network backbone.. imagine the dedicated SC and hardware for the logs alone..
[unquote]
medyo mali ang definition mo ng data center dahil data centers ang nag hohost ng mga gamit na binanggit mo
eg. the pbxs na gagamitin for telephonies 
at super duper dami ng mga back up datacenters ang kailangan din so basically kailangan mag triple ang presyo.
vic on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:30 pm
I hear so many here talking about filing charges to the court, but for all I know only the Prosecutors can file charges before the court on the evidence gathered by the Police Authorities upon suspicion of a crime , (this one is very, very, very OBVIOUS) or in the absence upon complaints of victims..but so far the Police is the one that needed to be investigated in this case and the supposed good guys, now it is just getting much more confusing…better clear the mountain of snow outside…
Mike on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:34 pm
Geo,
Like I said a while ago, evidence is not merely a smoking gun or documents saying, “Abalos Commission – $130 million.” Testimony of a credible witness can also be evidence. As Anonymous points out, if Clarissa Ocampo’s testimony was accepted, why not Lozada’s? No one’s questioning that he was involved. What motivation does he have to lie? Not to mention, this whole abduction episode (yes, that’s what it was, Ca T) and the government’s inability to get its story straight raises the question: why are they trying so desperately to suppress his story?
vic on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:41 pm
Here another good suggestion: why not pressure ( I meant encourage,for the sake of being annointed as the Moral Leader of New Order of Nations) the Chinese Government to do the investigation in their Side to perhaps clear these matters once and for all, because in this side, things just getting so muddled it is even making the grown up man cry…
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:43 pm
vic,
I was expecting Lozada to file kidnapping/abduction charges. Why didn’t he? He said he was taken against his will and also forced to sign documents. Based on his info, he can take the police et al to court.
He could of, he still can, and can even do it tomorrow.
Let’s see…..
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:57 pm
Mike,
No arguments against your point — testimony is part of the legal process. OTOH (and I’m no lawyer), words alone are not considered as hard evidence either.
I believe that’s a typical reason that two parties go to court — a disagreement about what facts are facts.
My question is: Why isn’t Lozada pressing kidnap charges? According to his testimony, this is a no-brainer.
Harion on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:59 pm
saksak mo ang ebidensyang hinaharang ng malacanang sa pukeng inang executive privilege na yan.
asan ang yo depotang public document na yan?
i available mo sarili mo sa mental, mamimilosopo ka pa!
supremo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 10:59 pm
‘abduction
Noun 1. abduction – the criminal act of capturing and carrying away by force a family member; if a man’s wife is abducted it is a crime against the family relationship and against the wife
seizure, capture – the act of taking of a person by force’
Ano sa Pilipinas ang definition ng abduction?
UP n student on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:01 pm
Geo & Kamoteboy: With the information you have, there is no way you can determine what is reasonable pricing. “Datacenter” means diddly-squat if you don’t know what is in it. And then, there is the network.
You need specifics, at least get a copy of the topology so you identify the POPs (points-of-presence), the Hubs, the bandwidth requirements, the routers and switches proposed, the digging-up-the-trenches for lines, the footprint-requirements, etcetera.
If you already know what conclusion you want, nothing being mentioned in this blogthread will convince you to change your mind, you might as well be happy that you have convinced yourself that you are right.
Now everyone seems to have accepted the $262Mil value? Why? Why could this not have been $186mil?
[ Actually, a reason why is that the number ends in 2. $262 is much more believable than $260 or $300 even if there is no paperwork detalya to back up the number.]
Harion on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:02 pm
presumption of innocence EVAPORATED the moment malacanang started hiding behind executive privilege
ricelander on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:02 pm
Geo,
The laws as we know have specific penalties for specific crimes. There are rules that govern them. Evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Preponderance of evidence. And so on.
But there are penalties or punishments beyond the pale of law. Loss of confidence. Loss of trust. Loss of empathy, of love, of compassion… there are no laws that prevent me from losing them on someone. Nor are there laws, if it be possible, to compel anybody to keep them on one which he used to grant them. I need not consult a lawyer what I think. I react on my own counsel– as do most. What was lost? In the case of the President– those! It may be asking for the moon to wish her prison for these alone, so that evidence beyond reasonable doubt should be demanded… but loss of confidence and doubt about legitimacy are her punishments– by undermining her rule. The relationship of the governor and the governed is in ruin and peril, and as President, she suffers day and night for it. She must come clean, if he cares about leading effectively. In the same manner a husband suspected by his wife of marital infidelity could invoke all his legal rights if it’s all the legal consequences he cares about, but if he wishes to preserve the relationship, he must come clean and not say ” where’s your evidence!”
Ray of Light on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:05 pm
i hink lozada was abducted because first, the abductors didn’t alow him to see his family, second, the abductors didn’t tell him where they’re gonna take him, and third they stopped him from using his phone. They aborted their plan only when somebody called them up and told them that they have to bring lozada back because of the media.
vic on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:07 pm
Geo, kidnapping and abduction charges are criminal charges and can only be filed by prosecutors upon complaints by the victims. and here is the process (in our jurisdiction at least) Mr. Lozada will summarize his complaints to the proper Police authorities and the Police will conduct investigation for Probable cause and if the Police has enough evidence to secure conviction, they can go the prosecutors and recommend filing the charges, if not then Mr. Lozada may has the choice of filing a civil suit which demand a lesser weight of evidence.. that just a layman way of interpreting the Justice process…
Harion on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:14 pm
hoy tonio, nasaan na yang available na documents na yan na pinagsasasabi mo? hingin mo na kay neri ang addendum nung contract. available pala eh.
public document my pwet!
an honest man hides nothing, a dishonest man uses all means within him to hide the truth.
napakasimple nang solusyon sa problema ng malacanang. kung gusto nila tumigil na ang iskandalong ito, eh di wag na silang magtago sa likod ng executive privilege. inosente pala sila eh, bat sila nagtatago!
ha? ha? ha?
eh kung ako yung akusado at INOSENTE ako matagal ko nang binuksan lahat ng baul ko, buong bahay ko, maghubad pa ako – kung inosente talaga ako, HAHAHARAP AKO!
YAN ang pukeng inang di ginagawa ng mga guilty. kaya mabulok kayo sa kangkungan kakasigaw ng procedural etse buretse nyo!
anong rason daw kung bat pinatalsik si JDV? vote of no confidence?
hala, mag botohan nga tayo ngayon kung meron pa nyan si GMA, ampotah nyo!
supremo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:15 pm
geo,
‘He won’t file kidnap or abduction charges.
Hearsay which won’t be substantiated and a refusal to take the accusatioons to the proper legal courts…we’ve seen this movie before. Another circus.’
Ang ibig mong sabihin kung sinampal ka at hindi ka gumanti hindi ka talaga sinampal.
you’re a clown!
vic on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:16 pm
Actually there is no need for complaints, any incident suspected as abduction or kidnapping, even tips coming from anonymous tips line, is subject for Police investigation and if warranted by evidence, Kidnapping and Abduction charges be filed against perpetrators. that’s why we have 222 tips and we also get rewards anonymously…
ricelander on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:37 pm
Heroes are compelled by circumstances. Lozada could have chosen the other way if offered the right price at the right time. Everyone has a price– that is true! Price does not just come in the form of money; freedom from threat too. He was just much too expensive. If one said ‘your truth is equivalent to the life of your wife’, that’d be his selling price perhaps.
Geo on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:38 pm
“But there are penalties or punishments beyond the pale of law.”
–ricelander
Yikes! Who gets to make the decisions about all of this? Can XYZ decide that so-and-so is “good/bad”? Heil Hitler!
————————————————-
vic,
I still don’t get it — why no charges?
supremo,
Hi. Have a nice day.
vic on Fri, 8th Feb 2008 11:50 pm
geo, in the of Mr. Lozada, the Police has not initiated any investigation yet regarding his alleged kidnapping, have they? That is the most important step for them to file charges of kidnapping on behalf of Mr. Lozada..even then the prosecutors may reject the filing if the evidence is not suficient enough to secure conviction as it will be just a waste of taxpayers money, that is assuming the state prosecutors are impartial…but they have to explain that to Mr. Lozada…
justice league on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:06 am
Geo,
Lozada is no saint and he admits that. Whatever permissible level he had doesn’t make it right.
Britain was no saint either. They celebrated when they achieved “Peace in our time” as they permitted Hitler to take this and that. Their PM even mediated it. But Hitler went too far and even Britain couldn’t stomach it anymore.
And as to any reluctance of Lozada in filing charges, I’m only surmising that Razon will still be head of the PNP and that Sec. Gonzales will still be head of the DOJ (which has jurisdiction over the NBI) and that might be weighing heavily on any immediate decision.
Kabayan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:27 am
I guess most of the bloggers here are too concentrated on Geo’s “why no charges?” question rather than the real issue at hand; Mike Arroyo and Abalos’ involvement in the ZTE corruption fiasco. Also if we would remember, Gloria rushed the Northrail transit transaction. Why? Likely scenario: Brinraso at kailangan ang komisyon, kaya ano mang mangyari eh tuloy ang ligaya sa Northrail?
Now Lozada mentions that the corrupt powers that be wants ZTE to be a Northrail “clone” of sorts.(i.e. Dapat yung ZTE tulad ng Northrail contract)
What is it with these rushed transactions with Red China anyway? Another issue that escaped the notice of most Filipinos, is when the Dept of Agriculture decided to lease to China’s Jilin Fuhua Agricultural Science and Technology Development Co., Ltd. (Fuhua Co.) some one million hectares of Philippine land under vague terms, an area which covers about a tenth of all Philippine agricultural land. If it were not for the ZTE controversy, this too would have been rammed right down our throats. This administration trust the Chinese to handle our agriculture, but do not trust our landless farmers to utilize the nation’s land. Why? I leave that for fellow bloggers to answer.
Utterly disgusting. But in another way that is also ordinarily expected of this administration, utterly corrupt. The sad thing is that if we Filipinos think that corruption are “ordinary” and “expected”, it shows the severity of the social cancer we are in now. When people think that it is okay to accept bribes just as long as they allegedly give it to the poor, we have begun our spiral towards a morally bankrupt society.
ay_naku on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:30 am
Hahahaha! Nicely put. I mean, even just through their actions and reactions, napaka-obvious naman na guilty ang Malacanang. Puro cover-up, puro kasinungalingan. May mga nagtatanga-tangahan lang talaga, maybe because napasubo na sila masyado sa pagsuporta sa administrasyon, na kahit na kagatin na sila sa pwet ng mga ebidensya, eh magbubulag-bulagan pa din.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:40 am
why is this kind of remark allowed by the moderator.
Nababoy ang usapan.
Gustong magmumog para luminis ang bunganga mo?
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:43 am
clarrisa did not shed a tear. walang drama. Buti pa ang babae walang kadramahan. her life was endangered but she did not surround herself with nuns.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:48 am
if it is fake, he could not have used it. He’s using red passport. He expected that the department is going to shoulder his expenses in Hk. His fare must have been shouldered by the government agency. He was with the cover-up all the time for fear of his life and now he’s crying abduction. sheesh.
Kabayan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:50 am
I could sympathize with Harion, his main message is that every administration hack and apologist wants this document and that document when exposes of their corruption are brought out but in the end Gloria’s administration simply would run back to E.O. 464 when they cannot properly answer anymore or are threatened with a good witness or evidence. To add they also have their Congressional goons block all investigations and have their Praetorian guard giving the third degree to the witness or their family. Without the strong words and emotions Harion’s statement rings true.
Blogging about the Lozada Testimony and ZTE Broadband Scandal | WordPress Philippines on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:52 am
[...] of MLQ3, he has quite a number of lengthy blog posts himself, the latest being “The Witness”. Lots of links out too, including a plea from Lozada’s niece. It’s clear that aside [...]
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:59 am
ang alam ko sa kinidnap ay yong against his will.
pumayag siyang pumunta sa hk. ayaw niyang magtestify. binigyan siya ng protection pag-uwi niya para sundin ang kaniyang hiling na ayaw niyang magtestify dahil baka masabi niya ang di dapat sabihin.
Takot niyang baka ma-dacer siya kaya nagtetext siya sa kapatid niya’t asawa para malaman kung nasaan siya dinala ng escort niya (which for me is natural for someone who does not know who is dealing with). the wife and the relatives made noise for his safety (na normal pa rin para sa kamag-anak na takot para sa buhay ng mahal sa buhay).
ngayon what am i drivig at. yong pagkatapos niyang humingi ng tulong kay atienza para hindi siya mapilit magtestify
ay nasa harap siya ng kamera at sinasabi niyang GINAGAWA NIYA ITO PRA SA BAYAN AT PARA SA PILIPINO. aNO SIYA NABABALIW.
pati naman ang amo ng dalawang pulis na sinususpetsah sa murder ni dacer –ping lacson ay sinasabi rin na ginagawa nia ito para sa bayan. SUS tumigil nga sila.
and the only way that they can impress that was to make it appear that he was abducted because he wanted to testify in his own volition.
sorry, sa akin. drama queen siya.
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:00 am
mlq3 has been talking about “bastusang pambansa”. how about “tsismisang senado’? lozada’s testimony consists of 99.9% tsismis, and 0.9% irrelevant melodrama. most of the questions violate all known civilized rules of fairness and truth-seeking. with possibly one or two exceptions (senators santiago and enrile), most of the others focus on what the witness thinks, not what he knows. often lozada has to preface his answers with “this is just my assumption”, or “this is my understanding”. what kind of “truth” does that produce? other times, the questioners supply the answers they want in the question and then force or confuse the witness into affirming it, or, at least, make it difficult to contradict it. too bad, both the questions and answers are not tested in the crucible of established evidentiary rules as in a court of law.
if senate investigations were meant to seek “truth” in aid of legislation, it’s a wonder how it can pass good laws based on “truth”. in a body full of joseph mccarthy wannabees, aided by a partisan media that has no concern for fairness, and which pays mere lip service to “truth”, it is easy to subject anyone to public lynching and scorn or even topple a government.
justice league on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:04 am
Ca t,
Their supposed endangerment weren’t exactly similar. Lozada supposedly felt what Dacer was supposed to have experienced.
But are in fact admitting the cover-up?
Kabayan,
Geo seems to be using the credibility of one idea against the other and that he is coming across that both ideas are not real for him.
fisball on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:07 am
“I must say that I am uncomfortable with his explanation: it makes sense, and on a certain level, yet betrays a kind of hubris. What he said does go to the heart of a very basic line (ultimately, a fluid one) most Filipinos instinctively draw, which is, that there are certain things that are just too crass -too garapal- that once crossed, can’t be tolerated. It is this, more than his obvious intelligence, or his being stuck in a perilous situation, that will resonate with the public.”
I am amazed, amazed mlq3 by how you seemed to focus too much on your personal estimation of Lozada’s attitude in working for the government and tried to view him in a very “moralistic lense”. Pardon me but you seem to display naivete of how corruption in our country should be seen in reality.
There is no such thing as zero corruption in governments — even in first world countries. For us developing countries, with a political system that is dysfuntional in a lot of ways — the realistic standard should be less in how government leaders practice strict morality, but how they must always practice national interest above everything else.
This may tick off a lot of people: but a certain level of corruption in a developing country such as ours, facilitates development (oh when I was a pol sci major in college I didn’t get this at all and was mightily ticked off when a prof raised this as a hypothesis)– but only if the greater part of the equation is partial to the national interest. The trouble really starts when the level of corruption in big ticket projects is aimed not to facilitate or fast-track development that will be beneficial to the country over the long-run but to enrich a few, powerful people people such as what happened to NBN-ZTE deal. This is in fact what is problematic with the Arroyo administration — massive corruption and incompetence with governance.
In any case, I find Lozada a very credible witness during the Senate hearing. He seems to me a realist through and through, and yes a man with a very firm ethical grounding.
And mlq3, why begrudge him the fact that he only decided to become a witness lately? It makes sense, that loyalty oath — “if you work for a man, in heaven’s name, work for him and stand by the institution which he represents..” he did not want to speak out because he worked for the government and cannot be disloyal to his superiors — well until he resigned, which was the right thing to do first.. “and when you are on the outside, damn to your heart’s content.”
But bravo, this Lozada guy, he didn’t even speak out against his friend, Neri… now, how one values one’s friendships at a particularly difficult time where battle lines are clear — that speaks in greatest measure about the character of a person.
Kabayan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:10 am
True justice league, a poor attempt of a few to muddle the real issue. Mike Arroyo and Abalos in the thick of it with the passive (or is it secret) acquiescence of Gloria. Let’s add the Praetor guards at work to nicely top off their sherbet of corruption and complicity.
J. Cruz on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:25 am
Controversy aside, what is the net result?
Republic of the Philippines
a “subsidiary” of the People’s Republic of China
Ladies and Gentlemen, that is the BIG & ONLY PICTURE!
cvj on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:26 am
fisball, i also realize from the experience of other countries that corruption (even massive corruption) does not preclude economic development. however, the problem with granting a ‘permissible zone’ is that it tends to grow over time. in contrast, an attitude of zero-tolerance towards corruption, although it would not realistically eliminate such practices, would at least prevent things from deteriorating over time in the form of expanding the zone of permissibility (as it has in our case).
The other thing to consider is that other countries follow some sort of Spartan code in that once corruption is revealed, the perpetrator is subjected to severe penalties either by the State or by his/her own hand. That code is non-existent over here, most specially among the political and business elite.
That being said, i agree that Lozada is an authentic hero and a man of courage. Even a former military man like Senator Honasan has recognized this.
nash on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:34 am
Whatever happened to the hard-hitting TV journalist who exposed corruption and helped the poor back when he had a weekend TV show?
NOLI de CASTRO.
Where is he? Did he vanish? Shall we send out a search party
supremo on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:35 am
justice league and kabayan,
‘Geo seems to be using the credibility of one idea against the other and that he is coming across that both ideas are not real for him.’
Which Geo? Geo the cynical or Geo the optimist.
nash on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:35 am
“clarrisa did not shed a tear. walang drama. Buti pa ang babae walang kadramahan. her life was endangered but she did not surround herself with nuns.”
Eh? What’s this got to do with witness testimony?
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:36 am
fisball:
“In any case, I find Lozada a very credible witness during the Senate hearing. He seems to me a realist through and through, and yes a man with a very firm ethical grounding. ”
I vote with you. Despite his shortcomings and possible involvements in what would become a mega-corruption deal, he has decided to veer the other way. Neri chose to go through and through, to protect the Arroyo govt, esp. Gloria and Mike.
“this Lozada guy, he didn’t even speak out against his friend, Neri… now, how one values one’s friendships at a particularly difficult time where battle lines are clear”
That’s part of the imperfection of a man, esp. a Filipino. Attribute it to “pakikisama.” In any case, he said his piece clearly and its message, Neri uses him to “moderate greed” if possible. Both of them must have realized later that they were in against a giant who would not budge. And Gloria knows that.
BrianB on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:38 am
“Guys, why overburden the fact – ehm, impression that Lozada’s is a very believable statement.”
Sorry, I meant belabor.
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:40 am
make no mistake about it. the whole lozada affair is part, or manifestation, of a “state of war” that exists between the executive branch and the senate. the senate was compelling lozada to testify and had issued a warrant for his arrest. the executive had reasons to believe that the investigation and compelled attendance were not “in aid of legislation” as claimed, but to embarrass the president and her family through unfair publicity, put them to public loathing and hatred, “destabilize” her government, and, ultimately, force her to resign.
lozada was an officer of the executive department. it was just natural for that co-equal branch to protect one of its own using as basis its own interpretation of the constitution which, pending a ruling by the supreme court, is, i think, a valid exercise of power. it appears to me that the executive branch’s effort to protect lozada from the moment he arrived at the airport was justified, with or without his request or that of his family.
cvj on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:53 am
Bencard, protecting lozada from what or whom? In your last paragraph, where you say ‘lozada’, don’t you actually mean ‘Arroyo’?
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:07 am
After hearing Lozada on TV, the picture has become clearer to me now. He is telling the “truth” about this big-time NBN-ZTE project, with the Arroyo govt dipping its dirty hands into it through its operators like Abalos. Hindi lang “pambayad sa utang na loob,” kurakutan galore pa!
Wow! 40% of the project cost goes to “commission.” Unbelievable, only in the Philipines. Hindi pa pala kuntento sa 22%, gusto doblehen pa. Mga buwaya talaga!
Of course, the Arroyo legalists and apologists will throw a monkey wrench in this thing. The cover up, participation, and attempts to sweep it under the rug are evident. In a decent, democratic country elsewhere, these actions amount to obstruction of justice, abetting corruption. In others, they’re enough for a leader to resign or commit harakiri. What a shame!
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:15 am
cvj, there you again with your penchant for mouthing off first and reading later. didn’t i say lozada (not arroyo) was the one being “arrested” (hunted) by the senate operatives? who do you think needs protection from the hunters, huh? think bubby dacer!
anthony scalia on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:22 am
Geo,
“I hate being/sounding so cynical (I’m an optimist, actually), but was today just a big waste of time? Bunch of hot air signifying nothing? Kinda seems like it”
in one sense its a waste because the end-product is new legislation (whatever that will be) and a mere committee report.
any prosecution of wrongdoing lies with the executive branch, which gloria heads!
what the Lozada episode can accomplish is the further tarnishing of gloria’s and FG’s reputation
observer on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:37 am
If tomorrow, Gloria will suddenly appear with a pair of wings, the same group will ask: “oh, what a specie of devil is she”??? but if she shows up with pair of horns sticking up her forehead the other group will say: “we just want to let you know that scientists just published that there is a new illness with exactly similar symptom, just a million dollar surgery and they’re gone”…you guys are all predictable…hehe just to break the monotony..
cvj on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:42 am
Bencard, do you mean that the Executive believed that Lozada was in danger of suffering a fate similar to Bubby Dacer which is why you said (at 1:40am above) that “the executive branch’s effort to protect lozada from the moment he arrived at the airport was justified, with or without his request or that of his family.“?
UP n student on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:00 am
American Heritage Dictionary
kid·nap (kÄd’nÄp’) Pronunciation Key
tr.v. To seize and detain unlawfully and usually for ransom.
Merriam-Webster
kid·nap : to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:07 am
pinoy talaga. nakuha pang tumawa sa pag-amin na corrupt din siya. pare-pareho lang sila.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:25 am
you got to talk to a lawyer or to a photo journalist . When presenting witnesses or the accused, they got to psyche themselves to project an image that would create impression for pity and sympathy, Cry, kahit na maglagay ka pa ng sibuyas.
If you still do not understand it, then we are not in te same page, read more para makahabol ka.
hvrds on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:30 am
Upon the advice of lawyers former President Bill Clinton testified under oath in his grand jury testimony, “I did not have sex with that woman.”
His lawyers decided to take the perspective that since no penile penetration into a vagina occurred therefore no sex occurred. Fellatio is not having sex. Inserting his cigar into Monica’s vagina was also not having sex.
He had also gotten some of his people in government to give her a job away from the White House.
The issue being vented in the press and in the Senate is not about legalities. It is about the workings of the political system. Theoretically the idea of three separate but equal branches that in certain cases will bring them into a state of war. Armed conflict being the breakdown of political discourse but for some the extension of political discourse brought to the battlefield. Evolved political systems have brought conflict into institutional forums.
The arbitration and mediation of power and wealth lies with the state. “Moderating greed” in more modern states have institutional safeguards. Free markets and free trade is not about fairness and equality.
Lozada participated with the executive in avoiding the Senate at first. He said this whole “abduction” was miscommunication. But he had raised expectations that he was returning but unfortunately for the executive department they had not prepared the documentation for him prior to his return. Get real guys, cell phones, internet and instant communication through media, what were these guys thinking? In this very clear attempt at spin they government screwed themselves. Lozada’s picture appears in the Financial Times.
Historically for the Philippines greeting someone at the tarmac of NAIA raises connotations. The scenario that the executive had prepared for him was not yet complete. It was so obvious they did not want him to testify in the Senate and he was not seasoned unlike his friend Neri who has been in government longer and is used to spinning words and playing the game.
In an analogous sense the government has now created the perception that they do have something to hide and Esperon and Razon are looking so much more like Luca Brazzi and Clemenza and when these two men ask anyone to go for a ride the perception of disappearances and killings become so real. The consiglieres around GMA are doing what they have been paid to do.
What is simply exhilarating is to see that almost the entire machinery of the executive is being used to prevent testimony in a Senate hearing. They created their own monsters for all to see.
Being pragmatic about corruption and trying to rationalize it to protect ones professional credentials is par for the course in the private sector.
But in the public sector it is dangerous as it destroys all notions of civilized behavior. That is why the theory behind the division of labor in an but separate system of government. They are not independent but are interdependent. Having an imbalance in power will almost surely result in disequilibrium.
The writer of the Lucifer Effect points to the idea of absolute power given to groups in society. You saw it in the actions of Atienza, Defensor and Razon. The Queen has to protected by all the means of the State.
It is ironic that the World Bank has just chosen a Chinese gentleman to be their chief economist. He speaks of a developmental state. We have criminal syndicates running the state under the guise of political families.
“By contrast, Lin has written that the government is the most important institution, and the quality of a government determines the success or failure of development. That, in itself, represents a sea change, and it will be fascinating to watch the degree to which the international financial institutions absorb this new thinking.”
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:31 am
cvj, don’t be naive. in the philippines, anything goes. that’s why, making hasty conclusions is dangerous. as both the npa rebels and the military are both capable of mischiefs, i.e., extra-legal killings, so are both the pro and anti- “gloria” fanatics and their leaders. neither side has a monopoly of holiness or evil, therefore, neither trusts the other.
it happened many times before, e.g., bubby dacer, it could happen again. either side could do it and try to incriminate the other through false propaganda and media campaigns. a gullible public, fed by a massive dose of false information, is easy prey.
it all boils down to evidence, evidence, evidence, and not opinions, speculations, surmises or conjectures. the fact that many in this blog are already drawing conclusions as to the first couple’s culpability is proof of how easy it is to manipulate certain minds.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:35 am
national interest? eh ,paano yung inamin ni lozada na mga ‘permissible zone’ na siya ang nag umpisa? hero my ass, insurance deal na pabor para sa asawa niya, deal na pabor sa company he owned. i wouldn’t be surprised kung marami pang lalabas. pare-pareho kasi silang magnanakaw. kung ang nakararami ay ‘ayos’ lang ang 20% ‘permissible zone’, sa kangkungan nga pupulutin ang pilipinas. gusto ba ninyo na ang mga ank ninyo ay ganitong ‘moral standard’ ang matutunan?
cvj on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:38 am
Bencard, while he was being driven around, Jun Lozada did say he was reminded of Bubby Dacer. That’s when he was in the custody of the Administration elements.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:47 am
ayos lang sa iyo ang ‘moderate greed’?
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:51 am
cvj, good question. assuming that what lozada said was true, how can we know whether or not the “custody” was for the purpose of ensuring that a similar tragic fate would not happen to him in the hands of the “hunters”?
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:59 am
btw, cvj, weren’t the people supposed to be “escorting” dacer also killed? or am i confusing that sordid episode with the kuratong baleleng massacre?
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:59 am
hindi naman si singson o si clarissa ang nagpatalsik kay erap. grupo ni erap ang dahilan – AYAW PA-BUKSAN ANG ENVELOPE!
ang pagkakaiba naman ni clarissa kay lozada, ang kay lozada ay matatawag na ‘hearsay’ compared to clarissa na first-person account. she was physically present when the document was signed: harap-harapan. smart kasi si erap.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:05 am
Dinapinoy: “ayos lang sa iyo ang ‘moderate greed’?”
Hindi. Maski na ung 1% na sinabi ni Lozada, di pa rin ako ayon.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:08 am
Bencard,
I don’t see a “state of war” here. In a way, it’s a palabas, another show. Wasn’t pro-admin Enrile who moved to issue that arrest warrant for Lozada? Why? (Then he tried to demolish Lozada’s credibility during the hearing, in concert with Mirriam.)
Meanwhile, Atienza and company are trying to delay, divert and hide Lozada as part of the show, hoping that the senate committee would end its hearing even without Lozada’s and Neri’s testimonies. (Cayetano had previously announced this, didn’t he?).
But something fouled up along the line, when Lozada was allowed to come back from his pre-arranged trip abroad (courtesy of Atienza), under the protective arm of this govt he was, uh – how shall we say it? – also trying to “protect” earlier.
That “kidnap†episode has something to do with it, among other explanations. (I think Devils said it more clearly, Feb 8, 12:51pm.) Kaya nga ayaw ni Lozada sabihin na kidnap, kasi usapan na nila para hindi siya maaresto ng senado sa airport pa lang. But between dying for this corrupt govt and saving his ass (at the expense of telling all), he chose the latter.
Now that Lozada has told his story, let the axe fall where it chops. We’ll see how Abalos defends himself, and what will Big Mike do.
Taking you for a ride: the Lozano Expose « Phoenix Eyrie, Reloaded on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:14 am
[...] in his blog, noted how, in conversations with Lozano, the guy sounded sincere, and his story is sound because [...]
cvj on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:28 am
Dinapinoy, it is not hearsay on Lozada’s part as he was present when Abalos requested to ‘protect’ 130 million of the contract price, when Abalos called Mike Arroyo to push for the Loan arrangement, as well as when Abalos threatened to kill him.
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:40 am
cvj, lozada said he was present when abalos made a phone call, but he did not know (of his own knowledge) who the person abalos called, or talked to at the other end.
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:44 am
cvj, i thought what lozada said was that he was there when abalos made a phone call, but he did not know (of his own knowledge) who the person abalos was calling or talking to at the opposite end.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:56 am
cvj,
you are right. first-person account kay abalos. pero hindi si abalos ang gusto nating mahuli. sabi nga ni bencard, evidence. as in documents in an envelope.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:34 am
Dinapinoy: “pero hindi si abalos ang gusto nating mahuli. sabi nga ni bencard, evidence. as in documents in an envelope.”
Simulan kay Abalos, tapos ang iba pang kasabwat. Lalabas din ang documents, tulad ng ante-dated travel documents ni Lozada. Para lang mapagtakpan at hindi sumabulat ang baho.
the bystander on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:41 am
Ipag-pasensya na natin mga tol. The old man is blind, blind, blind. He only sees what he wants to see.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:48 am
Let me focus a bit on the title of this thread: “The Witness.”
I heard during Erap’s impeachment trial someone pointing to a “Mr. Wetness,” a govt prosecutor, who is now a govt protector. The same guy, I believe, was shown on TV, quoted by Shazam2003 “…Apostol, in display of arrogance,said that †intsik pala siya, dapat i deport,†or something of that nature.
Wondering how the Filipino Chinese community, or tsinoy bloggers, react to this remark by Apostol?
nash on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:58 am
@ cat
“When presenting witnesses or the accused, they got to psyche themselves to project an image that would create impression for pity and sympathy, Cry, kahit na maglagay ka pa ng sibuyas.”
I agree with you that this is a sad reality of our system perhaps. The point I was making was that these are irrelevant. Dahil in a good court, good judges are not interested in IMAGE.
Siempre, I don’t expect those senators to be high calibre judges. Baka nga madaan sa iyak. Who knows. Sana hindi.
Parang Philippine Idol, dinadaan nalang sa paiyak-iyak para manalo.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 6:51 am
wala rin yan. hindi si FG or GMA ang nakapirma. sayang, noong jose pidal pwede pa sana. malakas-lakas ang ebidensya.
baycas on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 6:54 am
as part of government, J LO toed the government line…
as part of the norm in government, J LO tolerated (even owned up some) corruption…
afraid of broadcasting a brazen lie in public, J LO avoided (even up to the last minute “in custody” with atienza’s boys) the senate…
afraid of death and harm to family, J LO continued to be part of the government’s lies and deceptions…
BUT this was up to a certain extent. He drew the line yesterday…
and look at HOW RELIEVED he was at the senate!
a guy overwhelmed by the greed of some…a guy overburdened by fear…would certainly be relieved.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 6:59 am
si lozada ay parang si singson – mula sa loob, insider ika nga. kaya kung walang lalabas na clarissa ocampo na magbibigay ng first-person account supported by documents, ang magyayari dito ay he said/she said at ang sambayanan ay manonood na naman ng isang soap opera.
paikot-ikot.
ay_naku on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:11 am
True. While I can’t say that I quite agree with the premise (“certain level of corruption is acceptable”), the stark reality is that will always be SOME corruption in government, maybe any government. But when exposed, it shouldn’t be condoned and the persons concerned should be made accountable (I’ll grant that there may exist some gray areas in this regard.) The general objective though is to minimize it and to ensure that the mechanisms for accountability and checks and balances are in order.
But not only is there an obscene level of corruption in the GMA adminstration, the Arroyo mafia has arrogantly and deviously brushed aside attempts at accountability. They use any means fair and foul –mostly foul– to get away with their crimes: lie through their teeth, neutralize investigations (EO 464), payoff people (right inside Malacanang, even), abduct and intimidate (Rashma Hali, etc), fabricate “evidence” (Garci’s fake passport, and Malacanang’s crude attempt to splice their own “Hello Garci” tape to make it appear that GMA was actually talking to a certain Gary Ruado), even outright murder (political killings, and Musa Dimasidsing, witness to electoral fraud in Maguindanao.) Ilan sa mga yan ang na-resolba at nabigyan ng hustisya?
When it comes to the culture of impunity, the Arroyo regime has pushed to envelope to soul-numbing levels. Kelan pa kaya gigising ang Pilipino. Not only have we lost out moral bearing, we’ve also lost our minds (at least the die-hard Arroyo fans, and of course Miriam Defensor Santiago) and our balls too. Jun Lozada seems to have recovered his moral compass and his balls. I salute and support him.
enchilada on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:15 am
I find Lozada to be a very credible witness. This Arroyo of administration, instead of straightening up its act after escaping numerous scandals has only become bolder in committing corruption in a scale that we have never seen before. In the past, I would say pagbigyan na para walang gulo, but this time I no longer care kung magkagulo as long as this GMA government is replaced NOW!
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:22 am
99.9% + 0.9% = 100.8%
Overpricing din si Bencard. May kumisyon ba si Gloria na 0.8%?
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:34 am
DinaPinoy: “wala rin yan. hindi si FG or GMA ang nakapirma. sayang, noong jose pidal pwede pa sana. malakas-lakas ang ebidensya.”
Hwag ka mag alala, maglalabasan ang mga iyan pag hinalungkat na. Isang example lang ung ante-dated TO ni Lozada.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:36 am
ang ‘culture of impunity’ ay hindi pansin ng pinoy (maybe asia too. just look at thailand). noong panahon ni marcos, corruption was rampant too. hindi lang bulgar dahil walang makapalag sa media. nasaan ngayon ang mga marcos? nasaan ngayon ang mga estrada? replace GMA with reasonable corruption, ‘moderate greed’? erap and JDV are already ‘talking’, ready for 2010 (maybe sooner?).
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:38 am
ok, tongue twisted. my mistake. pardon my music, i meant 0.1%.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:43 am
sabi ko nga, si J LO ay insider. si JDV3 ay insider din. he said/she said ang mangyayari. kahit ngayon, pwedeng gumawa si J Lo ng kahit na anong document at lagyan pa niya ng kahit na anong date. unlike clarissa’s document na may pirma ni jose vilarde. at inamin pa ng pumirma.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:46 am
Tongue:
Galing ng aritmetek mo, ah. Parang dag-dag bawas ang dating! (joc joc lang, ok?)
mang_isko on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:49 am
ang nagtatago sa ilalim ng mga saya ng mga babae, eh walang bait sa sarili…
…parang mali-mali yata ang pagkadugtong ng salawikain ko..
sorry mgs tsong!
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:58 am
Ikaw naman Dinapinoy, inaapura mo. Hintayin natin ang sunod na kabanata. Kung kelan babanat si JdV, magde- defensa si Abalos, Mike, at iba pa sa gang. Tapos, dun na sa huling hantungan, purgatoryo ba o langit.
Tingnan mo, tila kumakalog na ang tuhod ng mga nakapalibot kay ma’am. Kung ano-ano ang pinagsasabi.
Ano kaya sa tingin mo, nakakatulog kaya ng mahimbing si Gloria mula noong nag presscon si Lozada?
baycas on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:00 am
tongue,
overpricing…LOL…
ay_naku on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:02 am
ay_naku on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:04 am
Again again again.
Marcos and Erap were overthrown. Marcos died in exile, and some of his ill-gotten wealth have been recovered. Erap was arrested, tried, and found guilty (nabigyan nga lang agad ng pardon.) So hindi natin masasabi na “‘culture of impunity’ ay hindi pansin ng pinoy.†Medyo mahaba lang ang pasensya ng pinoy, pero nauubos din. Kelan kaya tayo dadating ulit sa “sobra na, tama na, palitan na�
(Now about the infamous short memories of pinoys, that’s another matter.)
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:08 am
hindi ako nag-aapora. ikaw nga dyan ang sa tingin ko eh atat na atat na. maganda nga ang nangyayari dahil sila-sila naglalabas na ng baho. JDV, JDV3, J Lo? kasali yang mga yan.
nakakatulog ng mahimbing? you bet. kasi tulad noong panahon ni marcos at erap, pera-pera lang ang laban ng admin/oposition kuno. ang mga affidavit ni lozada kahit pa lagyan mo ng date na 1900 (pwede niyang gawin yun di ba?) ay isang ‘he said’ lamang. kung pinatay nila si J Lo, yun ang talagang sabit sila.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:14 am
sobra na, meaning above the 20% threshold. ayos lang ang ‘moderate greed’.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:16 am
“palitan na! now na!”
don’t worry, nag-uusap na si erap at JDV kung sino ang papalit.
Kabayan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:25 am
DinaPinoy wrote:
“…hindi naman si singson o si clarissa ang nagpatalsik kay erap. grupo ni erap ang dahilan – AYAW PA-BUKSAN ANG ENVELOPE!…”
—
Oo nga eh, di ba tulad ng mga Tongressmen, ayaw buksan ang mga questionable ballot boxes sa mga “severe vote anomaly tainted areas”. Sa sobrang pressure kay Gloria yan tuloy gumawa ng E.O. 464. Nung natikman ang masarap na E.O. 464 dinagdagan pa ng E.O. 1017, mmm sarap talaga. Oo nga pala – Ayaw rin BUKSAN ang Hello Garci investigation (salamat sa mga Tongressman at bago nilang sinaksak na JDV)at ayaw BUKSAN ang imbestagasyon sa Lanao cheating arrangement; kaya kawawang General Gudani at Colonel Balutan, walang puwang ang nagsisiwalat ng katotohanan sa dating magiting na military, dapat lahat sundan nilang ehemplo ay ang mga Praetor ni Gloria, ang pinakabago ay sina Praetor Esperon at Praetor Razon. Tapos ngayon nagtataka sila bakit maraming galit na Junior officers at rank and file sa kanila. Salamat ito sa PMA Class of World Class Corruption na kasama ni Gloriang tumitimpla ng Lutong Makoy.
Tsk tsk, mahirap talagang maraming tinatagong baho ano?
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:48 am
wala silang pakialam sa baho.
ang bantot ni marcos at bantot ni erap noon, pabango na ngayon. si loi, naging senador pa! si jinggoy, VP na ang inaasinta!
ay_naku on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:58 am
Solita Monsod is now a fierce administration critic? Will wonders never cease?
opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view/20080209-117751/Obvious
Ayan kasi, dapat simula pa lang hindi na tinolerate at ginawan ng excuses ang mga kabalastugan at kawalangyaan ng Arroyo misrule. Lalo pa tuloy naging garapal at gahaman. Still, better late than never. Welcome aboard, Mareng Winnie.
justice league on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 9:40 am
DinaPinoy,
Why are you so fascinated with the term “moderate greed” when the mother term came from Romulo Neri (Neri has admitted that, though he claims that is was colorful language)?
observer on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 9:58 am
Don’t worry, even after Estrada was convicted many of his “believers” still were not convinced that he was a plunderer and until today, the same believe that Macoy still had the best Interest of the Country in his Greedy Heart..the same with Gloria supporters..to the end they will be demanding ‘concrete’ evidence but even if they see them, still be demanding irrefutable ‘concrete evidence’…And FG Arroyo never meddle in Government…and they believe it too…and they call the oppositions naive and some other names they should call themselves…
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 9:59 am
greed is greed, right? “mea culpa” is colorful too.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:05 am
Naive?
jinggoy is the son of erap
escodero is the son of marcos’ escodero
alan is the son of kumpanyero
ping is the son of military martial law
they’re all son of a ………..
balatucan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:05 am
“The Ca t :
clarrisa did not shed a tear. walang drama. Buti pa ang babae walang kadramahan. her life was endangered but she did not surround herself with nuns.”
She was lucky, she was not kidnapped. She wasnt send outside the country. She didnt receive any death threats.
C’mon others are stronger thant the rest but that doesnt mean those who shed tears are not credible.
manuelbuencamino on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:05 am
Bencard,
Res Gestae is what they call Lozada’s account of his kidnapping. It is given more weight that anything he or anyone else says after. Abogado ka, alam mo yan. Lozada gave a first hand account of his experience and he stated very clearly that he was taken and held against his will.
Harion on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:20 am
CaT, bec, first & foremost, my cussing was not directed to any of the posters here. my posts were not a personal attack, or threat to any poster.
read back, and you’d realize that my cussing was directed at that “pukeng inang executive privilege” at “ampotah nyo” referring to the admin. in which case, manolo says, is fair game.
mine is a display of righteous indignation (maybe the right term is rigteous anger), as opposed to some squalid argumentation.
magmumumog ako, kung magpapa lobotomy ka. baka sakaling maalis yang moral relativism mo.
Harion on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:28 am
eh kung pagsisipain ko kaya sila palabas ng solar system?
ang tapang ng apog nyo! sino nagbigay sainyo right para maging king-makers? ang ginagawa nyong backroom deals ang syang katulad na deals na nagluklok sa pwesto kay GMA. kaya please lang, wag nyo nang hijackin ang pagbabagong ito. matulog na lang kayo dyan sa sagingan.
sa masang pilipino, wag na kayo pumayag na half-assed na naman at half-baked ang pagbabago. ika nga ni rizal, “you must be prepared to destroy all shred of the existing system…”
sana naman ngayon, mag resonate na ang RESIGN ALL movt. snap elections po. di sya unconstitutional. mas pinapalakas pa nga nito ang demokrasya. at saka, wag sana nating makalimutan yung mga bumoto, yung mga di bumoto, at yung mga nag abstain sa huling botohan sa kongreso. nasa newsbreak ang lista.
turuan natin ang mga hayop na ito na buhay ang accountability sa bansa.
Geo on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:32 am
manuelbuencamino,
OK…but then why isn’t he pressing charges? I don’t think anyone has answered that yet (forgive me if I missed a post which did).
I would also think that the opposition would jump on this chance to pin down the government.
The problem with all of Lozada’s words re ZTE is that he was not a witness to any crime. But in the case of the alleged abduction, he is the actual victim!
It still seems to me that yesterday was a waste unless something concrete comes out of it. And this abduction case seems to offer the best chance to get a real result.
So why no formal complaints/charges? This seems so strange.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:44 am
these people should know that without corroborating evidence, even the testimony of an eyewitness will not be accepted by the court as conclusive. lalo walang body at walang weapon.
Ito kahit boses hindi narinig.
Sus ginoo, kadali namang sabihin na ito kausap ko si ano pero huwag ka, dinayal pala ay ibang telepono.
Chineck ba nila ang phone call?
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:49 am
The reason why Lozada is singing a different tune as being abducted is to avoid jail time. He had a warrant of arrest and if the law is going to be enforced, he can be jailed on sight.
Plain and simple. SOmeone nust have advised him.
Kaya tigilan ninyo na ako sa hero effect. Wala ng hero ngayon. Mga duwag meron.
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:50 am
mb, res gestae is one exception to hearsay rule which includes spontaneous statement made immediately after the occurrence of the alleged crime. it just means that this type of evidence may be admitted (despite being hearsay), but you’re wrong to think that they are special and entitled to more weight than other admitted evidence. res gestae evidence is still subject to other tests of truth, e.g., competency, relevancy, materiality, credibility or witnesses’ ability to comprehend. a court may consider it but is not compelled to believe it.
btw, you’ll get my bill in the mail (lol).
qwert on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:14 am
“So why no formal complaints/charges? This seems so strange.” – Geo
First things first, there a writ of amparo hearing next week and the lawyer/s of Lozada are preparing for it. I think protection is their first priority and then maybe file the appropriate charges against the perpetrators later.
balatucan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:34 am
“The Ca t :
The reason why Lozada is singing a different tune as being abducted is to avoid jail time. He had a warrant of arrest and if the law is going to be enforced, he can be jailed on sight.
Plain and simple. SOmeone nust have advised him.
Kaya tigilan ninyo na ako sa hero effect. Wala ng hero ngayon. Mga duwag meron.”
What a spin! Please wag nyo nang baligtarin ang usapan. Sino ba ang nag issue ng warrant of arrest. Ang alam ko, the Senate does not issue warrant of arrest to any witness to imprison him but make him testify.
Jailed on sight? Is that your government is practicing now with the absence of due process?
If the government wants to jail him, it should have assisted the Senate in arresting him. Why the government to be the one protecting him by carrying him around to escape Senate apperance?
Ang labo!
balatucan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:36 am
Opps, I meant,”Why the government appears to be the one protecting him…”
mlq3 on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:39 am
i think the critics of lozada are underestimating the effects such a situation has on someone who once was at the center or near the center of things, and who then discovers he is not only a pawn, but one doomed to be sacrificed. also, consider that there are many kinds of pressure, many forms of intimidation, they can be implied or overt but equally terrifying. and that finally coming forward is such a momentous step to take that pursuing the legal process is something not only premature to consider at a time when one’s safety is far from assured, but also secondary compared to the task at hand.
the point of my entry above is to propose that this is a man with very definite flaws but considerable courage and it doesn’t matter whether it took him months or moments to arrive at where he is now. it is a better place than most other people can ever hope to be, because he has achieved a kind of redemption.
Geo on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:41 am
A — In sum, Lozada says he actually was a party/witness to the following events before the ZTE deal was finalized:
1. Abalos told him he wanted to protect his $130m “comission”.
2. Neri told Lozada to mediate between JDV3 and Abalos and reduce the amount. Lozada recommended that the amount be reduced to $65m.
3. JDV3 and Abalos could not agree with each other and were very mad. Abalos spoke into a phone, purportedly with the FG.
4. The FG briefly joined a dinner once and said little.
5. Abalos told him there was some money for Neri which maybe Lozada could share in. Abalos wanted them to agree to not recommend Joey’s BOT approach.
Lozada resigned and the deal eventually went G2G.
B — Other issues:
1. He was abducted, but won’t press charges.
2. He admits to entering anomalous deals while being a government employee.
3. He thinks there is a “permissible level” of kickbacks…the going rate being around 22%.
4. Admin types have tried to keep him from saying any of the above.
—————————————————-
Is that right? Did I catch the key points? If so, what actionable evidence is there?
hawaiianguy on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:43 am
balatucan, cat,
The arrest warrant was issued, upon motion of Enrile. And during the hearing, what did Enrile do?
Who asked Lozada to sign the prepared affidavit while he is being “held captive/kidnapped,” or simply whisked away. A certain Bautista, who is a partner of Enrile’s law firm. Wanna check it out? http://www.uniffors.com/
Connect the dots.
Mita on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:56 am
mlq3, given all that…the guy should get a hold of himself because it really is hurting his testimony. there’s already a disconnect with his first press con and his senate testimony regarding the “abduction” – he first called it a “misunderstanding” – which is a totally different scenario. Who is not going to say then that his whole testimony is all a “misunderstanding”?
don’t get me wrong, I believe the guy but he is muddling things by his inability to get a hold of himself.
mlq3 on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:04 pm
mita, i don’t know if he is. we’d all react different ways to such a dilemma, i guess. he’s doing it by being unable to sleep, bursting into dry heaves and tears and not wanting to say any more against people he’s been close to than he has to -all very typical of our culture, i guess.
the consensus from the lawyers i talked to who watched the goings-on in the senate is that he’s a pretty devastating witness.
Mita on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:07 pm
mlq3, yes it is very typical of our culture and it is very sad. anyone of us can be in his shoes, done the dirty but relatively minor deeds without much thought then wake up one day to ask – “how did I get here? i want my soul back.”
i hope someone gives him a valium over the weekend so he can get his rest before the next hearing.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:25 pm
Pag-aralan mo muna ang bench warrant at warrant of arrest, bago ka makipag-usap sa akin.
In the meantime, ignore mode ko. Kakapagod mag-explain.
DuckVader on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:35 pm
Is something being lost in all of these debates about what is evidence and what is not, and what is acceptable in court and what is not?
Here is my premise. Neri claims Abalos offered him a bribe. Lozada claims Abalos threatened him (with help from FG). Joey De Venecia claims Abalos threatened him too (and FG).
First hypothesis: These three individuals — one of them a Cabinet-level secretary — are all making this up. Assuming they did, why did they do so, and are they are being manipulated by some puppetmaster?
Second hypotheses: These three individuals are all telling parts of one big and real story.
But people say: These are all accusations, without evidence.
But don’t most criminal cases start with an accusation, and then the police investigate?
Where is the ombudsman in all this? Where are the institutions that are supposed to do the proper investigation?
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:38 pm
Even at the start of the discussion of the ZTE NBN deal, I already wrote that Neri’s explanation of the project made me conclude that he was not the one who made the analysis.
JPE’s questions proved that Lozada was the guy and he did not do it in any official capacity as consultant. Just a mere “colleague”. He’s not being paid for it. Just lunch.
A practice of most execs who do not know howo to do things , so they have somebody do for them not in official capacity, para hindi halatang hindi niya gawa.
If you are keen enough to follow JPE’s manner of questioning starting with the number of years that Lozada had known Neri…
You will THINK Why such a question. Kung ako yan susundan ko ng bakit ka isinubo sa bunganga ng buwaya?
mlwnag on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:38 pm
In the end, Lozada is admitting that he and Neri were massaging JDViii bid although condemned as technically unacceptable by DOTC. And both resorted proposing to split the supply and installation/maintenance service to ZTE and Amd respectively.
Neri, Lozada and JDV3 can be charged already for corruption. Neri testified that he want JDV3 proposal but it is not acceptable by DOTC. It means that he should not open the commercial bid of Amsterdam and discard any further commercial evaluation of the bid.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:46 pm
I want to believe that he knows the anomaly. But telling the media that he’s doing it as a payback to the country which gave him means of livelihood, I should like to refer him to his statement that he was whining because he used his credit cards when he was in HK. He expected the government agency to foot his bill. Ano gagastusan ang pagtago niya at pag-avoid sa arrest warrant?
DuckVader on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:47 pm
OT: Does anyone know where I can watch the famous “I’m sorry” video and the “I will not run” speech?
thanks
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:50 pm
What’s devastating about his testimony when all you hear are the raw and the daw. Cayetano, the lady asked a leading question.
Another senator supplied the answer. Even a dumb lawyer could have objected on these questions.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 12:54 pm
The knight was protected by sacrificing a pawn and the spectators of the game of chess, cheered. Sheesh.
Kabayan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 1:29 pm
ay_naku,
Perhaps finally Solita Monsod has seen through the Potemkin illusion that Gloria’s administration has been trying to prop up through the years. Well, better late than never.
b.vodka on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:07 pm
Yeah Cat, nothing devastating about Lozada’s testimony at all. nothing at all. Kaya pala the full might of the government’s resources were exhausted in an attempt to stop his testimony.
“sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.”
P.S. dont speak about legal procedures, nabubuking ka na walang alam. If youre a lawyer, take your MCLE! Mag remedial ka muna.
fiball on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:18 pm
P.S. dont speak about legal procedures, nabubuking ka na walang alam. If youre a lawyer, take your MCLE! Mag remedial ka muna.
A, b.vodka, hindi po siya lawyer — feeling lang minsan. Minsan feeling din na economista sya. Sheesh, what feelings can to do to a person talaga — mainly feelings of malice.
balatucan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:35 pm
I think Cat should free us with her non sequiturs. His arguments have no rhyme or reason. He says Lozada felt guilty that the government foot his bill in Hong Kong. In the first place, Lozada will not go to Hong Kong if not for the intimidation he got. When Lozada said he does not want to appear in the Senate, its not because he does not want to but because of the consequence he will face if he will do so.
balatucan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 2:38 pm
All Cat is doing is to destroy Lozada.
Why cant he present evidence to refute Lozadas testimony instead of concentraqting on the peripherals that do not have anything to do with what he is saying about the NBN deal.
Tama na po ang paninira kay Lozada. Naisiwalat na niya ang gusto nyang sabihin, paniwalaan mo man o hindi.
Besides who do you want to win on your side. Definitely, not the bloggers here because we made up our minds about the truth of what Lozada is saying and his credibility as a person.
BrianB on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:40 pm
ALL
You’ll probably think I’m too emotional but Filipinos are capable of ignoring incontestable proof like the Hello Garci tape but I doubt if they can ignore a testimony like Lozada’s. It’s one thing to compartmentalize cold facts, it’s quite another to turn a blind eye on a human being who has opened up his soul to you… not to mention risked both his life and his family.
Chabeli on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:53 pm
What kind of government is this ??!! They deserve to be lynched ! Who do they think they are ???!!! They have taunted & spat at the faces of the people by CHEATING, LYING & STEALING. This has gone too far ! It is time for people to fight & take back the dignity Gloria & her lapdogs have taken away from the people. If the people do not react, then they simply have not self respect !
I am also appalled at the racial slur of Muchacho Apostol on Mr Lozada ! Palibhasa, wala na ma sabe dahil buko na !
Chabeli on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 3:55 pm
BrianB,
I TOTALLY agree with what you say, “It’s one thing to compartmentalize cold facts, it’s quite another to turn a blind eye on a human being who has opened up his soul to you… not to mention risked both his life and his family.”
Geo on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 4:42 pm
Duck Vader,
If you want some more potential theories, look at mlwnag’s 12:38pm post:
“In the end, Lozada is admitting that he and Neri were massaging JDViii bid although condemned as technically unacceptable by DOTC. And both resorted proposing to split the supply and installation/maintenance service to ZTE and Amd respectively.
Neri, Lozada and JDV3 can be charged already for corruption.”
And remember that JDV himself had written an endorsement letter for Mendoza to sign. And he had arranged meetings amongst the players and his son.
I don’t know if that’s the true story either. That’s why we resort to facts, courts of law, etc. rather than trials via media, using accusations, innuendos and hearsay, in a circus of a senate led by presidential wannabes. The whole idea is to avoid witchhunts.
justice league on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:01 pm
DinaPinoy,
So now we’re down to one word.
But that one word is still carved from the mother term which came from Neri.
justice league on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:09 pm
Geo,
I think you missed a post of mine for you earlier.
Supremo,
I’d rather not guess.
Bert on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:54 pm
Did any of you guys wonder why not a whimper from any senator being told by Lozada that he could hear the senator’s conversations from the abductor’s radio while being driven around? They are bugged, and don’t mind it. Gives me the feeling that kind of thing is now a normal occurence, is it? I’m dizzy, where am I?
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 5:55 pm
Dispute whatever I wrote about the legal procedure that you do not agree on.
Hindi ako feeling economist. I would not dare anyone debate with me if i do not know a thing about the subject.
Bert on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 6:04 pm
“The knight was protected by sacrificing a pawn and the spectators of the game of chess, cheered. Sheesh.”-cat
And when the queen is mated by the pawn the feline cry? heheh.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 6:20 pm
Naintinidihan mo ang sulat ko o emotional ka lang.
I said he was whining that he used his own credit cards and spent for his short stay in HK. He was EXPECTING that the government agency should have foot the bill since he was “supposed to be on an official travel”. That alone would tell you that he is a party to whatever attempt there was to prevent him from testifying.
AND HE SPOKE ABOUT DOING IT FOR HIS COUNTRY. Pinautang na loob pa ang mga Filipino. Sheesh.
Naintindihan ang ibig sabihin ko?
And he admitted that offered a commission, he would accept a balato. This guy who is professing that he is just a simple man would accept a balato. Even a balato from a commission would still come from the cost of the project. Knowing how much money is involved, the bslato could run to millions.
The Ca t on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 6:28 pm
The pawn has hardly reached the middle of the chessboard and the people in the gallery are already cheering.
If you’re playing the chess, even with the loss of the queen, the game continues. It is the king which should be checkmated before the game is over. You associate the queen for a lady. The king is a woman.
Kabayan on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 6:36 pm
Whatever Lozada’s failings, if he exposes those leeches (i.e. the Gang of Mike et al) sucking the economic and moral lifeblood of the Filipino people (even down through the generations as our grandchildren would be paying for the loan) that in itself is an achievement worthy of praise. An expose that even some of our spunkiest bloggers would think many times before doing and something that pro-administration spin-doctors would ignore and downplay to the utmost of their ability (or up to the ability the Palace is willing to pay for services)
tj on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:20 pm
I think somebody should picket the ZTE local office or the Chinese embassy for them to present their knowledge of the matter, like how did the project end up in their table. (who solicited who, why was the coverage increase, why didn’t they find a partner to do a BOT, who propose that it be a govt to govt loan, when did the Chinese govt decide that a loan would be available etc.) (Mao ZeDong and Deng XiaoPIng must be turning on their graves),( Makes you wonder if ZTE also did a similar deals with Sudan and Burma )
manuelbuencamino on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 7:25 pm
Lozada told the truth. The entire Pidal regime is lying. Period.
benign0 on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:10 pm
If what is happening starts a chain reaction of uncovering shady deals and encourages others to come forward and spill the beans, then that is good.
But it needs to be understood that whatever corruption is being exposed today has been around and INSTITUTIONALISED over periods that transcend any one administration. After Arroyo goes, others will come (most probably elected by the same voters) who will continue this deeply-ingrained culture of crime of Filipinos.
So if we are to cheer on these things, lets cheer them on not as anti-Glorias or pro-Glorias or whatever but as people who want deep systemic change.
Whatever “cheating” or “lying” is attributed to the current administration has always been inherent to the society and the administrations and their politicians that merely reflect this society.
Bert on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:34 pm
“If you’re playing the chess, even with the loss of the queen, the game continues. It is the king which should be checkmated before the game is over. You associate the queen for a lady. The king is a woman.”
Exactly what I meant, the pawn mating the queen, who is also the king. I hope that’s clear enough.
cvj on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 8:48 pm
Benign0 (at 8:10pm), i agree. Uncovering the corruption of the Arroyos is by no means the be-all and end-all, but it’s a necessary start.
Bert on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 9:05 pm
“The pawn has hardly reached the middle of the chessboard and the people in the gallery are already cheering.”
The people in the gallery cheered because one of the rook was captured, and the opponent panicked.
enchilada on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 9:27 pm
There is no harder evidence of guilt than the abduction of Lozada and the full court press this government is doing to control the damage – including dispatching an Internet brigade to spread lies and toe the government line in the blogoshpere. 20% kickbacks from corruption can do and buy a lot indeed.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 9:36 pm
galit si CaT kay lozada dahil may messianic complex ito. it’s one of lozada’s misgivings. his assessment of himself being a little too high. it’s human nature i guess. caught between the limelight of the press, one just can’t help presenting oneself in a better light. so what if he can’t admit to himself that he’s only doing this to save his ass? the fact still stands that his testimony is the truth.
zero in on all his wrong motivations, assassinate his character, but CaT and all the admin apologists left his testimony standing untouched. as if they know demolishing it would be very hard.
cmon! akala ko ba magaling ka sa debate? so why don’t you stop the ad hominems and focus on lozada’s testimony alone. so, oo na, demonyo na si lozada. pero totoo ba ang sinasabi nya?
vic on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 9:37 pm
corruption history lesson 10l..when sponsorship scandal in the admministration of PM Chretien was first questioned by a reporter from Globe and Mail, every government supporters including the PM were questioning what corruption?? But the opposition kept badgering the Govt. with the questions during the daily “question period” that finally the PM asked the Auditor General to take a look at the allegation..the AG did and she found out what there were indeed systemic patronage and kickbacks, and assigning of government contracts to Government friendly firms without services or goods in return and some monies found their way back to the Liberal party funds that the AG ask the Mounties to take a look themselves..and after, it Took a Judicial Inquiry Two Years to dig deep and detailed the events from millions of pages of transcripts, lies, half truth, facts, truth and testemonies of all parties of interest including of the ex PM and the sitting PM..now there no freaking chance that anyone can ascertain the the truth from the confusion just now…what is clear is something amiss here and it is for the best Interest of the 90 Million Filipinos the clear these mess up maybe in TWO years or Less, but clear up it should…
Jackie on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 10:09 pm
The Cat will defend the Arroyos to death. Parang PR officer nila
observer on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:00 pm
Just observe in the PDI that Senator Biazon has an open invitation to all, including those who were issuing PR left and right refuting Lozada and his family claims that he was abducted, to do it Under Oath in Senate and so far only the PNP chief said that he is willing to do it…now there is a chance for the “fair judges” in this forum to listen and bring down their own impartial verdicts…or should I say, predictable as always….
Mike on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:01 pm
Bencard,
As Sen. Biazon explained in his introductory remarks, Congress has both a legislative function and an OVERSIGHT (over the Executive) function. Seems the government and its allies want people to forget about the latter.
fiball on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:02 pm
malicious cat, malicious cat…ang alam ko walang malisyoso/malisyosang pusa sa mundong ito. wow, zeroing on something as a remark as “doing it for one’s country” — so what that affected you so much? Di mo siguro ma-imagine sarili mo na feeling that way. And Lozada did not “whine” about using his credit card when in Hong Kong – he merely stated as a fact.Listen to yourself, you’re the one whining. Sheesh. And a chess game metaphor for this latest bruhaha? So you want to descredit this guy as if he was part of another demolition job by the opposition against the government? Won’t stick though if you listen (alam mo ba kung ano ibig sabihin nun? in Tagalog, makinig ineng) look at all the facts and connect the dots (or are you pretty stupid?). This was just a guy telling the simple truth. If you can’t handle that, ewan ko, dahil isa lang ang conclusion ko sa yo — isa kang malisyosang tao or die-hard ni Gloria Arroyo. Take your pick.
Bencard on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:27 pm
“what’s devastating about his testimony when all you hear are the raw and the daw. cayetano, the lady asked a leading question.
another senator supplied the answer. even a dumb lawyer could have objected to these questions.” the c’at.
you’re right on the money, c’at. as far as the first family is concerned, nothing i heard from lozada’s testimony can stand up in a court of law, or even in a prosecutor’s office. the gullible commenters in this blog don’t even know the hogwash they are being fed to condemn the first couple on nothing but innuendoes and haka-haka. see the usually premature cheering, jerring and high-fiving? the likes of cayetano, escudero, jinggoy, jamby, pimentel, lacson, et al. are visibly salivating, while the bias media is on another frenzy doing its part of the witch hunt.
this illustrates the insidiousness of this “in aid of legislation” inquisitions. woe unto him who gets to be the subject of it. virtually every rule of fairness in a civilized society goes out of the window, and must give way to the inquisitor’s personal agenda.
as a tool for propaganda, lozada’s testimony and tears may succeed in generating more negative perceptions about this administration. i doubt very much if it has any value in a court of law except, maybe, as against himself, abalos and neri.
btw, no lawyer (including a dumb lawyer) can object for his client in a senate investigation. they can observe, and counsel in private, but not participate. fair, isn’t it?
The Equalizer on Sat, 9th Feb 2008 11:44 pm
The Equalizer did a “quick and dirty ” research to get feedbacks from the general public regarding Jun Lozada,the Star Witness (or WETNESS per Sergio Apostol)in the the ZTE-NBN Scandal:
1)A Shell gas attendant: “Bilib na bilib ako kay Lozada,itinaya ang buhay para magsabi ng katotohanan”
2)A young businessman: “I admire him for his guts.But knowing the current administration,I fear for his life.I think Jun Lozada is a walking deadman!”
3)A young housewife: ” I just wonder what HER (mastermind’s) real intention in ordering the abduction of Lozada from the airport”
4)A cashier in Shell Select:”Galit na galit ako noong kinidnap si Lozada ng mga tao
ni Arroyo.
5)A lola: “Kailan kaya magagalit talaga ang tao?”
EQUALIZER COMMENT:” To the palace gang: DON’T DO ANYTHING TO JUN LOZADA WHICH YOU DON’T WANT GOD AND THE FILIPINO PEOPLE TO KNOW LATER ON!!
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:03 am
Corruption History Lesson 102: When the opposition and the Media kept badgering PM Chretien about the involvement of his trusted Underlings to the Sponsorship Scandal, he countered that the COPs are investigating and if they were guilty to Jail they go and to Jail they went and also sued for the money corrupted…Now why not order a Police Investigation to this Allegations..might indeed something in it..really???
The Ca t on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:15 am
T
sharpen your brain and browse the archives if i have ever defended the arroyos.
I just hate incompetence of the opposition in pursuing the cases.
nothing happened except for media mileage of grandstanding politicians.
And people giving verdict according to hearsay.
As a forensic would define hearsay; even a witness’ testimony is a hearsay if it can not be substantiated with hard evidences.
true, otherwise we are going back to the dark ages when witchhunting was a way of people to exact revenge on their enemies.
bakit ang anti-gma pikon? mwehehe
Pilipinoparin on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 1:33 am
“But people say: These are all accusations, without evidence.
But don’t most criminal cases start with an accusation, and then the police investigate?
Where is the ombudsman in all this? Where are the institutions that are supposed to do the proper investigation?”–Duck Vader
Iyan ang hirap, sabi nga nila bulag, walang bayag,tuta ng kung sino, walang silbi ang ombudsman. Kaya iyan, walang nangyayari maski iyong mga kurakot noon pang martial law nalimutan nang lahat.
Bencard on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 1:43 am
if our system of government was the true, democratic parliamentary form, as the british model, things could be different. perception, as opposed to legal “truth” could be a basis of “lack of confidence”, which could, in turn be the basis of a peaceful change of government. perhaps, there would be less need for “people power” marches, coup d’etat, self-inflicted economic disasters, washing dirty linens before the eyes of the international community, protracted political vendettas, and fears of dictatorship.
when people are told that a “moderate” amount of corruption is o.k. as an inevitable fact of life, that’s when i think our current system, on the whole, is broken. i think it’s time the country takes a long, hard look on the benefits of the parliamentary system. i believe the advantages far outweigh the potential problems.
Bencard on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 1:57 am
pilipinoparin, contrary to conventional (layman’s) belief, prosecutors don’t go around investigating and filing cases whenever a suggestion of wrongdoing is made. when a prosecutor decides to litigate a case, he must be convinced that he has a viable case, strong enough evidence, good witnesses, and jurisprudential basis, to overcome the inherent advantages of the defense, and win. a prosecutor is not tasked to prosecute blindly. he has to uphold justice for or against the accused.
cvj on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:02 am
Hmmm….laying the predicate for a parliamentary system… Bencard, i remember you saying before that you are opposed to Arroyo staying beyond 2010…hmmm…interesting change…
BrianB on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:06 am
@Bert
Bert. Obviously they weren’t listening. If yu watched the hearing last Friday you’ll notice many Senators asking the same questions or asking questions already answered in Lozada’s statement.
Bert on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:10 am
“when people are told that a “moderate†amount of corruption is o.k. as an inevitable fact of life, that’s when i think our current system, on the whole, is broken. i think it’s time the country takes a long, hard look on the benefits of the parliamentary system. i believe the advantages far outweigh the potential problems.–Bencard
Well now, that, I think, completes the cycle, the link…from the defender of the person to advocacy of the objective of the person. Perpetual rule, Bencard here waiting for you, what advantages have ye got?
Pilipinoparin on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:29 am
Parliamentary?
Ito ngang hiwalay ang Congress (esp. Lower House) sa Executive nagkakandaleche-leche na ang Pillipinas. Paano pa kaya sa Parliamentary system? Eh di lalo nang maghahasik ng lagim ang mga “Tongressmen”/MP’s.
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:32 am
Pilipinoparin, that’s possible too, especially if the Government is in Majority, that is Scary, that could be the making of another Zimbabwe..
hawaiianguy on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:36 am
All these talks about shift to parliamentary govt, if done during this regime, are bound to fail. The people don’t like it now, because it lends to Gloria’s power obsession.
Pilipinoparin on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:39 am
Bencard, you know what happened during the old Batasang Pambansa, you were still there in RP. I remember you said the situation in the Philippines were the reasons why you left our country. What do you think will happen kung mabuhay na mag-uli ang Parliament? Well, it may not matter to you, you are now safe in your adopted country. However, I am sure that hundreds of your relatives are still there.
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:44 am
However much the other side tries to push Lozada’s unquestionably damaging testimony to “downgrade” it, the more the truth flies high. Because the assailants are merely biting off at the insignificant and the absurd fringes pathetically, the core of the testimony is fortified. Their arguments are not helped by an uncoordinated script in their own presscons either.
Manolo, if you could review the tapes on ANC on the Malacañang presscon aired while the Senate was having its 45-minute break, with former CICT chief Sales, Telof Asec. Formoso and DOTC Sec. Mendoza (because I’m sure you wouldn’t have seen it since you were in the Senate), you would have heard another revelation that totally startled me but escaped everyone in media. I say this because I’ve not read or heard anyone talk about it.
Sales, who says he is no longer in gov’t, spoke to repeat their claims that ZTE was the superior proposal, that they were not remiss, etc. Just to debunk Lozada’s earlier statements regarding “supplier-driven” contracts and the “government’s dysfunctional procurement system”. He gave an example wherein he said he asked his people that they do actual testing of the claimed benefits of ZTE’s WiMax protocol. He said they constructed a few WiMax stations “from an order that has already been paid but not yet delivered” and the ZTE claim of its system’s technical soundness was proved.
Whaaaat? An order paid but not yet delivered? That’s a big no-no in government, not even in Marcos’ time! Even downpayments or Letters of Credit are not allowed, how much more prepaid orders! The paid yet undelivered equipment may have been ZTE/NBN or CyberEd, or another project that fits the theory I raised in an earlier thread, could have been for Abalos’ Microwave Transmission of Election Returns part of the computerization deal.
There it is. Abalos’ connection to ZTE goes back farther than NBN. The deal was partly prepaid (via Northrail?), commissions advanced, they needed an NBN and/or CyberEd to consumate it.
Pilipinoparin on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:52 am
Vic, I think most of the time, the Majority in Parliamentary system holds the Government.
It is very easy to buy the votes of, say 500 MP’s vs 30 million Filipino voters.
Pilipinoparin on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 3:06 am
Ben, you maybe right, prosecutors are very selective in filing cases. I am just wondering about the filed cases in our courts, especially in the Ombudsman. Man, these cases have been filed for ages, marami nang nangamatay na kasangkot, inaamag na ang mga documento, marami nang naglaho na parang bula.May apo na sa tuhod si Lolo, wala pang makitang hustisya. Maybe CJ Puno may start the changes in the justice system, afterall, he is an Arellanite.
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 3:13 am
Pilipinoparin, I was thinking on the line of the Strong Party System of Parliamentary Form of more than Two parties where there could be a chance of minority government..
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 3:16 am
Anyways, I’m getting a lot of chatter from national HQ that we may have an election called anytime..and our party is ready, just forwarded my “election ready” donation….
Bencard on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 3:47 am
cvj, bert, not so fast guys. a change to parliamentary system could be had without “gloria” being allowed to circumvent the present constitution. a transitory provision on the amended charter could take care of that. of course, that would depend on the people who would re-write it, and those who would vote for it in the plebiscite that follows.
why should “gloria’s” perceived design to perpetuate herself in power automatically follows every mention of change? are the filipinos so irredeemably helpless that it cannot even chart its own destiny? are we just going to consign ourselves to a “culture” of venality shackled by a belief that “there’s nothing we can do anyway”?
i’m not here making a judgment on “gloria” – that she or her government is corrupt. i am for the rule of law. and the present law does not allow that kind of conclusion. i am making a judgment on the kind of system we have, where there is hardly anyone you can trust, or put your faith upon. we have to make a fast and peaceful change in governance possible, whoever maybe the incumbent. otherwise, these turmoil we are having now will be re-played over and over again beyond gma’s presidency against her successors.
Bencard on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 4:11 am
pilipinoparin, if i remember right the “batasang pambansa” parliament kuno was constituted under marcos’ dictatorship by a captive “constitutional convention”. i have already left when that happened.
as far as i can see, the present (1987) constitution is still working. so are the agencies, instrumentalities and offices of the democratic government. marcos’ powers then are not comparable to gma’s now, regardless of spins to the contrary. therefore, i think your fears are unfounded.
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 4:16 am
To complete Bencard’s convenient half-truth about how a prosecutor begins investigating, the Ombudsman, in its mandate, does not need a complaint, or a complainant for that matter, before it begins investigating. Ex proprio motu. Same with the police.
The inaction of these two agencies simply highlight their complicity in this charade of conflicting scripts – the travesty of justice.
UP n student on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 4:20 am
@Pilipinoparin :
So how much do opposition congressmen sell their votes for?
And the votes are needed about three times a year, right?
The middle-class voter, of course, do not sell his/her vote.
And the Filipino-voter who can be bought sells for no more than P200 a vote. Plus the vote lasts for 3 years or even 6 years.
So it is possible that the sentence “500 MP’s versus 30 million voters” proves faulty.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:09 am
ahh. not yet.
only up to the point it becomes fulfilled.
and then, debating it is inconsequential.
bencard, how can you be so intelligent and so dumb at the same time? is your mind convoluted with legalese? your memory of marcos must be faulty, bec from my pov, we are today at the point of marcos’ first term as president.
gma is gathering her forces as we speak. just as marcos did. review your history. how marcos destroyed the opposition in his time, and how he consolidated his power.
and then you go back to me and tell me if my fears are unfounded.
DuckVader on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:09 am
Bencard wrote:
“as a tool for propaganda, lozada’s testimony and tears may succeed in generating more negative perceptions about this administration. i doubt very much if it has any value in a court of law except, maybe, as against himself, abalos and neri.”
So why are we not pursuing Abalos, Neri and Lozda in court cases?
I think the problem in this blog is that we are already making decisions as to whether evidence is admissible or enough to convict.
In this case, I do agree with Benigno. We already had a Cabinet-level secretary accuse a very high public official of attempting to bribe him. And of two other witnesses who say that this same official tried to broker the deal.
Were there ethical violations? Were there violations of law?
Isn’t it up to the Ombudsman to determine whether their testimonies are enough to START building a case? As we all know, not all the evidence used to convict is found at the start. The initial evidence is only used to build the larger case. After all, they are the ones who know how to do so not us.
SO why is the Ombudsman not telling us whether or not they are doing so, and what their reasons are?
Imagine this: You come upon a street corner. One guy shouts at another: “He killed my child.” But it is not the scene of the crime.
Police come on the scene and say: “Well, since it’s only your word against his right now and you don’t have any evidence, we conclude that you don’t have a case.”
Shouldn’t the police investigate. Because if the police don’t, then at some point confidence in the institution of law enforcement will disappear.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:12 am
ironic really, that GMA models her philosophy of power on the one man who defeated her father. daddy must be so proud. if he weren’t so dead.
Jonesey on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 6:16 am
Every single politician and high-level bureaucrat in the Philippines should be shot. Or jailed. Or both. They are all magnanakaw. All kurakot. All greedy pigs feeding at the people’s trough. Down to a man, they’re all leeches. The only difference is in their degrees of thievery.
Pilipinoparin on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 6:37 am
Jone,
Take it easy, that’s not the way we do it here, we “Moderate their greed” and “Move on”. Heheheh!
Mita on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:41 am
Whatever system of government we have it won’t work if the culture of corruption is so deeply ingrained in society and in INDIVIDUALS. Lozada is now being praised for coming out and speaking the truth when he is nothing more than a self-confessed thief himself.
Is this the only kind of hero we can come up with?
Going further, I’ll point out – how many more individuals among ordinary citizens will do the same crooked deals Lozada did if they had an opportunity to serve in government?
The honest individual will turn down a job in government if he wanted to stay true to himself, as was the case with my uncle years ago…and myself just last year. Let’s not kid ourselves, we know corruption happens..moderation doesn’t make any less of a CRIME.
I hope I’m not the only one who realizes how deep in shit our country is really in.
BrianB on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:48 am
“Is this the only kind of hero we can come up with?”
As people who prioritize OURSELVES, we listen to the message. We do not have to put this messenger up on a pedestal, though he needs to be protected… for our own good.
JMCastro on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 9:04 am
Every election time, poor simple people ask the offices of politicians for whatever they need. I was talking to a “government consultant”, and the requests are varied — money, t-shirts, medicine for a sick loved one, “kubeta”, and other construction materials. Every time someone dies, politicians are also expected to fork out “abuloy”, and even provide the coffin in some instances. I can go on and on and on — even when it is not election time, the typical receiving office of a politician is lined up with all kinds of people expecting help in some way, shape or form.
These are the benefits of the typical Filipino voter from the Philippine politics of patronage. Within this context, corruption is inevitable, even necessary for a typical Filipino politician’s survival. In my opinion, this is a self-supporting and self-perpetuating cycle which ensures the relevance of corruption in Philippine government.
In my opinion, this implies two (2) things –
1.) Unless and until there is an institutional channel which Juan de la Cruz can turn to during his time of legitimate need, he will continue standing in line outside his local politico’s office, election or no election.
2.) Many ordinary simple barrio folk or squatter dweller have yet to learn the value of relying on their own strength in resolving their own problems. All of us who are in a position to mould and manage these people’s values, aspirations, needs and productivity share common blame in this. Those “corrupt politicians” are not the only leaders of this land.
JMCastro on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 9:24 am
Mita,
There are many heroes working out in the field, in civil society and NGOs who are working out in city slums and provincial barrios — it’s just that they don’t speak in the Senate, nor featured a lot in print, radio or television.
Some of them are subjected to opposing police and military operations, which ironically is taken seriously by foreign governments (see Alston report) but given short shrift by media here.
My guess is that the political drama unfolding on TV right now is more entertaining than boring notices from foreign governments and institutions.
BrianB on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 9:44 am
Inquirer Editorial today cuts deep.
I am schoolmate with one of the sons but I never really noticed any “Castillan” pretensions. I’ve always thought he and the men in his family acted like probinsyanos and are proud of it.
Many mestizos from Negros are said to be part “black” or pygmy, the original natives of Negros. This makes sense as the mestizos there are quite short. Either that or they killed off most of the original inhabitants, so you can see how preferable it is to believe you have ati blood, even if it is your wont to look racially at the many races that comprise this country.
Still calling the Arroyos pretentious must hurt.
ay_naku on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 10:24 am
Yeah I’ve also wondered about this. Pati sa mga news items parang di nabigyan ng pansin. Weird. Maybe the senators were afraid that if they asked Lozada about it, i-share din ni Lozada kung ano yung mga narinig nyang usapan, and the overheard conversations might not be flattering to the senators? Hehe.
hawaiianguy on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:03 am
Duck & Tongue,
Good points you raised on the Ombudsman. I’ll bet my ass, this Ombudsgirl would take Lozada to court first rather than Abalos or Neri. Right now, Malacanan attack dogs are demanding for his blood, urging the Ombudsgirl to run after Lozada’s neck.
hawaiianguy on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:16 am
Mita, “The honest individual will turn down a job in government if he wanted to stay true to himself, as was the case with my uncle years ago…and myself just last year. Let’s not kid ourselves, we know corruption happens..moderation doesn’t make any less of a CRIME.”
Lucky you are and your uncle.
How about the cadre of unemployed, average young graduates, esp. teachers, who can’t find jobs in the private sector? As they have nothing to turn down in the first place, would they rather not seek govt jobs even as casuals? Going the path of corruption is far from their minds, it’s survival first.
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:24 am
greenblooded :
i just noticed that there had been a resurrection of pro-GMA forces in the blogging world, not just in this site..
probably using palace computers…
been a blog lurker for years, and it just fascinates me how the orcs resurfaces everytime the dark goddess is in hot water..
or i might be wrong. im just a lowly, innocent student who likes observing blogs.
=========================================================
this kind of observation did not work before and will never ever work now and in the future. like it or not there will always be comments in the blog world that will favor Gloria the same that there will always be comment that is very destructive about her. Deal with it!
Bencard on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:25 am
tongue-twisted, i don’t know what your problem is but when you use fancy words to sound smart, please check their implications and meaning in common usage. “convenient half-truth”? to educate you a bit about half truth, it means false, or a lie. what false remark or lie did i make in my comment that you are criticizing?
i did not mean to give a full lecture on the job of a prosecutor. i was giving philipinoparin some reasons why every SUGGESTION of wrongdoing is not being investigated and brought to court. of course the ideal is for the law enforcers to investigate all suspicions, complaint or no complaint. but is that practical or realistic? do you know how many staff prosecutors the ombudsman has and their ratio to the actual complaints already pending, let alone mere suspected cases? do you know how much funding and resources his office has?
justice league on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:34 am
UPN,
I’m not going to say that you don’t have a point but the story of Wily Brandt (former head of West Germany) might be interesting.
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:35 am
Greed..Insatiable Greed..once possessed a man, destroys his being…makes him a liar, a devil unto himself…
Bencard on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:45 am
devilsadvoc8, unlike you, who must have connections with some preternatural forces, i’m just a normal person observing things as they happen. gma has been president for more than 8 years and i have yet to see any hint of dictatorship in her governance. the last i check, the courts, the media (often abusive), the clergy, the “civil society”, the “left”, the “right”, congress and senate, the businessmen, the military, and all the people opposed to her, are alive and well, plying their respective trades and usual activities.
i still think your prognostications are unfounded.
justice league on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:00 pm
Bencard,
In your answer to Pilinoparin; you mentioned that his fears seem unfounded based on the powers of ex-president Marcos and PGMA as referred to the Charter.
In the decision on PP1017; the SC declared parts of it unconstitutional including the part of PGMA promulgating decrees which the Charter does not empower a President to have.
If Pilipinoparin was talking about the Charter, then your answer should suffice, if he was however referring to the mindset of people in power (at least to the ones he seems to be referring); then I don’t think your answer would allay his fear or maybe even devils advoc8 but I’ll leave devil to clarify his stance since I’ve indulged so much with someone else’s at this time.
observer on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:05 pm
The Philippines under the regime of GMA is not yet a dictatorship as strictly defined, just without the usual Checks, so the results just about the same as they people in power can dictates the innards of the Government’s functions, while allowing the facades of normalcy. how can it pull off consistently the alleged huge percentage of “kickbacks” if it can not Dictates the Terms? How can the PNP, the military, as in the case of the supposed abduction, Lie the same Lies and tell another story the next day if they are not Dictated from the Top? Dictate is the Key Word..not yet there, close.
BrianB on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:14 pm
“gma has been president for more than 8 years and i have yet to see any hint of dictatorship in her governance.”
This is what happens when people exaggerrate and they have no imagination to think of other evils besides that witnessed by Filipinos during Martial Law. Obviously, GMA is not a dictator. Dictators don’t have to bribe people. She uses the savvy of her political operatives to get away with obvious crimes like Hello Garci. She uses coercion, bribery and she lies to the public, a public so powerless and desperate they have no choice but believe.
No, not a dictator but a criminal, the highest public official of the land and one of the least trusted… not because she is president but because of her lies.
Maybe dictatorship will improve her chances of coming out of her regime free from persecution. I doubt if she’ll to be a dictator, being a woman and being that dictatorships are frowned upon internationally, which because all the support she has come from favoritism in the military and political favors, would put her in a precarious position.
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:19 pm
If that is the definition of dictatorship then we can also say that Bush is a dictator as well as majority of the heads of state aroun the world…. Maybe we should stop addressing the head of state as President or Prime minister. Just plain Dictator Aroyo, Dictator Bush ………
JMCastro on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:20 pm
Bencard:
The participants involved in this affair are smart enough to make sure that they leave only the most minimal traces of evidence in terms of physical objects or documentary materials, items which can become exhibits in a court of law or an administrative proceeding. That’s why every corruption case in my personal memory boil down to testimonies by whistle-blowers.
In my opinion, virtually all of the evidence in the ZTE broadband deal will probably be testimonies made official in affidavit form.
Faced with this dilemma, how do you propose we resolve this?
Bencard on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:39 pm
brianb, your comments usually are worth responding to but not this one. anyway, i just want to say, i believe this time you are thinking with your gut, not with your brain. i’m not warning you but your use of words like “criminal”, “bribe people”, “lies”, “coercion”, directed at the sitting president of the republic may not be very prudent. hope you have something to back them up and good luck. freedom of expression is not unlimited, you know.
justice league on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:43 pm
Bencard,
Britain’s parliament appears to be functioning well so your endorsement of the British model seem appropriate (Unfortunately I am terribly unfamilar with it so my view might change should I be able to read more on it).
However, I think everyone in favor of a parliamentary government should look at the kind of parliamentary form of government that our politicians proposed/endorsed (this is in reference to your view on the possible kind of people who would re-write it).
AFAIU; they took some of the good features of some (they unfortunately left out one very important part) parliamentary models and molded it into a proposed Philippine parliamentary government.
The product wasn’t so pretty and it stinks like “kaning baboy”.
Fit for pigs but not for humans.
They incorporated in it ideas like prevention of turncoatism, proportional representation of parties in lieu of our present party system, replacement of the Prime Minister ONLY when a successor has been elected, etc….
In some combinations or even individually, the ideas certainly had merit.
But ALL of such as included the proposed Charter made that proposed Charter unfit for human consumption.
I even termed it as a “Constitutional Oligarchy”.
The pro parliamentary bloggers in other forums didn’t put up much of a fight of ideas so I don’t really know if my conclusion on it could really withstand a discussion of ideas.
If you wish, I can always indulge you with a discussion on the merits of that proposed charter.
In reference to the kind of people who would vote for it in a plebiscite; if the politicians proposing such a change will be using the public’s money (and they surely will)and will be proposing such a lousy change in the first place; shouldn’t we be rejecting the idea already even before they use again the public’s money on a plebiscite?
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:44 pm
JMCastro, very hard indeed…I recall a Scandal in our City which was detailed in a ‘blameless inquiry’ but the criminal part investigations before the inquiry, can not produced enough acceptable evidence that the Crown refused to file charges against the perpetrators..but of course the Principals were shamed and disgraced and faded and all the public employees involved noted in the inquiry reports either resigned or fired, but most importantly the enactment of guidelines to prevent municipal officials and public servants to do the same..but one thing I find amusing in the head of the Inquiry reports: Madame Justice Belamey, about the Principal suspect..’his nose is gettin longer as he lied about the lies’, something to that effect..
But recently, the Federal Government in order to streghtened the Accountability Act, amended and give more Protection to the Whistle Blowers, especially for Government employees especially on the retaliation part..and also suspended lobbying for 5 years to study what best to deal with it..but the best part is the maximum limit to political contribution is also scaled down, and donation from corportate and labour unions banned, now only from individual citizen with strict limits, including politicians..
justice league on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:46 pm
Bencard,
I seem to have forgotten to state what they left out.
What they left out in the proposal was the power of the people to “RECALL” members of parliament that other parliaments in the world empower their people to do.
BrianB on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:56 pm
“freedom of expression is not unlimited, you know.”
Damn, I wonder what happened to Manolo’s “libel detector.”
Bencard I exaggerrate, talking to a Comelec officer during election is not a crime. It is, however, very very bad.
justice league on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:56 pm
Ooooooppppsss.
“… proportional representation of parties in lieu of our present party system,” should have been stated as
“proportional representation of parties in lieu of our present PARTY LIST system”.
BrianB on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 12:58 pm
I mean the “Palace.” I think lawyering should be taught in school. Nakakalito mga palusot na to.
BrianB on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 1:16 pm
Hi Bencard,
Listen to what my future cell mate says about GMA:
“President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo is a hardened criminal. She and her armed group will not cease attacking the rights of the people notwithstanding the international condemnation her government is getting,“ said Gabriela secretary general Emmi de Jesus.
BTW, I don’t really fear legal intimidation so don’t bother with the warnings. I’ve been accused before of “attempted murder.” He, this is true, I am not joking. The case never passed the investigative prosecutor but I had to deal with it for several months, almost a year. The only thing that guides me really is ethics. If I feel it is not right calling someone a name, I won’t do it no matter how annoyed I am of the person. I believe this is a country ruled by criminals, and this criminality trickles down. Even good people do illegal things because they believe they have to do. Lozada isn’t the only witness to this “tolerable crimes” in government.
qwert on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 1:20 pm
“gma has been president for more than 8 years and i have yet to see any hint of dictatorship in her governance” – Bencard
Maybe you meant “proof of dictatorship”.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:08 pm
Bencard, to settle the question, let’s ask Manolo to give us the links to historical accounts of what marcos did months before he declared martial law, and then counter-check it with what gloria is doing today.
i’ve always trusted my memory that when i read something, i really read it. it’s buried somewhere in this blog, but my inference in comparing gma to marcos lies in what i’ve read.
mlq3, bencard and i need your help. i know there is a historical account here somewhere that details marcos’ actions before he declared martial law. if it isn’t too much to ask, could you kindly provide us the link?
Jun Dadagdag on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:13 pm
Clearly, what we have here is Lozada vs The Mob.
A situation that deserves a plug on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkIoJNxVJVc
Enjoy!
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:19 pm
btw rego, Bush is indeed a dictator. the actions and decisions he made as president of the US have harmed the executive’s other 2 co-equal branch. he has over reached executive power and is not yet finished destroying the ideals which made america great.
rumors have floated that if Obama wins the nomination, he will be assassinated. comparisons with JFK will then be complete.
hawaiianguy on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 2:25 pm
Allow me to show some parallels between Marcos and Arroyo, re “Martial Law” and “Emergency Rule”:
Witness their strikingly correlated language, an almost perfect isomorph:
Proclamation 1081 (Marcos)
“NOW, THEREFORE, I, FERDINAND E. MARCOS, President of the Philippines, by virtue of the powers vested upon me by Article VII, Section 10, Paragraph (’2) of the Constitution, …, in my capacity as their commander-in-chief, do hereby command the armed forces of the Philippines, to maintain law and order throughout the Philippines, prevent or suppress all forms of lawless violence as well as any act of insurrection or rebellion and to enforce obedience to all the laws and decrees, orders and regulations promulgated by me personally or upon my direction.â€
Proclamation 1017 (Macapagal-Arroyo)
“NOW, THEREFORE, I Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, President of the Republic of the Philippines and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, by virtue of the powers vested upon me by Section 18, Article 7 of the Philippine Constitution … in my capacity as their Commander-in-Chief, do hereby command the Armed Forces of the Philippines, to maintain law and order throughout the Philippines, prevent or suppress all forms of lawless violence as well any act of insurrection or rebellion and to enforce obedience to all the laws and to all decrees, orders and regulations promulgated by me personally or upon my direction.â€
Yesterday, Ferdinand Marcos. Now, Gloria Arroyo?
JMCastro on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 3:46 pm
DevilsAdvc8, hawaiianguy:
Just an observation –
Invoking Marcos and Martial law in an argument is like Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies (see this link — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law).
Lemme paraphrase it — “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Marcos or Martial Law approaches one.”
Lol.
Mita on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:09 pm
hawaiianguy, yes I am lucky in a way, but that wasn’t always the case. I’ve always believed man – any man – always has a choice. Also, the situation for young graduates today is not as dire as it was for me during our time. There are so many options today that were not available to us. Back then, sobra pa yung preference for “exclusive” school grads – mas kawawa mga bata nun.
JMCastro, I hope one hero will surface before 2010 who is not a Trapo participating in this whole zarzuela, not a member of the opposition who is incapable of providing the people a better alternative, not overly-religious who will kill every attempt at population control – just one well-meaning person who can LEAD and turn things around for the country at this important juncture in our history. whatever criicisms against this government, there IS progress in the economy and we owe it to ourselves to make sure the gains of the past years are not wasted.
I wonder if the people can find another Panlilio like the Capampangans did?
If my reading of events proves right, Lozada’s testimony will not matter in the long run. This is not the tipping point for this administration so many have been waiting for. UNLESS, a paper trail can be provided to back his pronouncements in the Senate – or another witness steps forward (Neri?) to corroborate.
This is the big difference for EDSA 2 and Erap’s case…
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:29 pm
“i’ve always trusted my memory that when i read something, i really read it. it’s buried somewhere in this blog, but my inference in comparing gma to marcos lies in what i’ve read.”
Oh sorry but I have to go with Bencard on this! ( again? but what can I do, this aging lawyer’s mind is just so sharp……..)
Kailangan ba talaga mag pa kampi kay Manolo????????????
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:31 pm
Allow me to show some parallels between Marcos and Arroyo, re “Martial Law†and “Emergency Ruleâ€
Susginoo!!!!!!!!!!!!! di pa ba halatang obvious ang pag kakaiba sa pangalan pa lang. Hay naku tigilan ako !!!!!!!
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:33 pm
qwert :
“gma has been president for more than 8 years and i have yet to see any hint of dictatorship in her governance†– Bencard
Maybe you meant “proof of dictatorshipâ€.
==========================================
Alright so where’s the proof????????????
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:35 pm
BrianB :
Hi Bencard,
Listen to what my future cell mate says about GMA:
“President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo is a hardened criminal. She and her armed group will not cease attacking the rights of the people notwithstanding the international condemnation her government is getting,“ said Gabriela secretary general Emmi de Jesus.
BTW, I don’t really fear legal intimidation so don’t bother with the warnings. I’ve been accused before of “attempted murder.†He, this is true, I am not joking. The case never passed the investigative prosecutor but I had to deal with it for several months, almost a year. The only thing that guides me really is ethics. If I feel it is not right calling someone a name, I won’t do it no matter how annoyed I am of the person. I believe this is a country ruled by criminals, and this criminality trickles down. Even good people do illegal things because they believe they have to do. Lozada isn’t the only witness to this “tolerable crimes†in government.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I rally realy think you’re joking! And you are a writer at that?????????
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:38 pm
btw rego, Bush is indeed a dictator. the actions and decisions he made as president of the US have harmed the executive’s other 2 co-equal branch. he has over reached executive power and is not yet finished destroying the ideals which made america great.
===============================================
thats what im saying………………
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:39 pm
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!
hawaiianguy on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:42 pm
Rego:”Susginoo!!!!!!!!!!!!! di pa ba halatang obvious ang pag kakaiba sa pangalan pa lang. Hay naku tigilan ako !!!!!!!”
Ay, oo nga pala, tama ka. Magkaiba nga ng spelling eh. Galing-galing mo pare ko! Bilib talaga ako sayo. Meron ka 200 dito.
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:45 pm
asan?????? I’ll take it ! pakimail pls. I really really need additional cash para sa sprint bill ko!
hawaiianguy on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:52 pm
sige bay (day?), paghulat diha.
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:54 pm
“rumors have floated that if Obama wins the nomination, he will be assassinated. comparisons with JFK will then be complete.”
ayyy tsismoso ka ! bagay na bagay ka sa senado!!!!!!!!
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 5:58 pm
I mean the “Palace.†I think lawyering should be taught in school. Nakakalito mga palusot na to.
oo nga obviously nakakalito ka brian! maybe you take a break from writing. try other profession, maybe???
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 6:03 pm
sige bay (day?), paghulat diha.
di ko masyadong well versed sa cebuano o ilongo pero pahulat means hantayan mo, right? I really need it bai, migo. so ill anxiously wait for it!
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 6:06 pm
Invoking Marcos and Martial law in an argument is like Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies (see this link — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law).
=======================================================
whats with this link???????? kalowkaHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
The Ca t on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 6:19 pm
If my reading of events proves right, Lozada’s testimony will not matter in the long run. This is not the tipping point for this administration so many have been waiting for. UNLESS, a paper trail can be provided to back his pronouncements in the Senate – or another witness steps forward (Neri?) to corroborate.
I agree with you Mita. I do not think these “prosecutors” are really doing their job. Their obvious goal is to incite the people to rise just like Edsa 2.
They saw what the impeachment trial of GMA had brought shining moments to the members of the Senate who were seeking reelection.
They’re leaving it to the people to finish the job.
The difference between the impeachment of Erap and the investigations conducted by the current legislative body was that there so many paper trails in the first. The prosecutors did their research and Erap was so confident that his corruption will never be checked so that he was transparent even in his personal lives and justified influence peddling of his relatives and mistresses.
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 6:39 pm
Amen amen, Mita!!!!!!!!!
The Ca t on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 6:48 pm
He is just a hero because these people would like to bring down GMA.
For me he’s a party to the corruption that he’s talking about.
He’s coming out was just that he fears for his life and the chance to get a balato was also botched. Remember when he was interrogated by Honasan? He’s willing to receive commission or balato.
Remember when Neri asked him to moderate the greed which to me means ADJUST the project cost and hide commission somewhere.
Remember when I commented about the inability of Neri to explain how he was able to come up with the costing?
BECAUSE, it appears that the project cost was computed by Lozada himself . Kasama ang commission and possibly the balato if the project is going to be implemented.
Remember when he was interrogated by Pimentel about his travel to attend a conference in HK, the travel of papers of which was personally prepared by him? Pimentel’s inquiry showed that he was never a delegate to that conference. Meaning, he lied.
Okay, granting that he had a change of heart because his father reminded him to pay back his adoptive country but phulease, it pissed me off when he presented himself to be a witness because he cares for the Philippines and the Filipino people complete with dysfunctional tear duct. I hate teleserye.
(canned boos from the cats) meow.
And many of the people here would like me to stop discrediting him?
I do not have to. He is discrediting himself in the testimony. If the people here who are blinded by their hate to GMA would just read the NBN transcripts, they could find that the person is nothing but as you have a said, a thief himself given the chance.
observer on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 7:01 pm
The current crop of craps are smarter than the past ones for doing their crafts as they already had seen what happened to those with so much confidence that they will never get caught, Estrada as an example. Not only that there are no Paper Trails, but the layers of operators were thick by the time it gets to the active parties, they are all unaware of the Masters and if exposed DENY and that’s about it..a very well-planned by people who learned much from experienced and legalities..as for Lozada,there is a very Few High Government Officials, or maybe none that are not tainted with corruption and he is not a willing Hero.
He did his best not to appear before the Senate and even asking the Help of His boss named Atienza to avoid testifying under oath, because HE IS many skeletons to undug himself, but as the events developed, there were very few options left for a small fry against the pack of Sharks who were already feasting on the limited resources of the sea by their sheer brute force and insatiable appetite for more…that I OBSERVE…
Bert on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 7:02 pm
“cvj, bert, not so fast guys. a change to parliamentary system could be had without “gloria†being allowed to circumvent the present constitution. a transitory provision on the amended charter could take care of that. of course, that would depend on the people who would re-write it, and those who would vote for it in the plebiscite that follows.–Bencard
The people who will re-write it will be invited to malacanang, when they leave, glossy paper bag will be the item of the day.
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 7:12 pm
“Okay, granting that he had a change of heart because his father reminded him to pay back his adoptive country but phulease, it pissed me off when he presented himself to be a witness because he cares for the Philippines and the Filipino people complete with dysfunctional tear duct. I hate teleserye.”
============================================
More so I really really hate hypocites….
Thank you so much to Ca T for really taking your precious time out to really unmask and condemn (?) this latest act of hypocrisy in our dear native land! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
observer on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 7:14 pm
Additional Observations: that is why in the past a max of 20% “kickbacks” will not raise an eyebrow, but as the Witness Lozada testimonies revealed, it has to be raised to the amount that even Him, a very smooth facilitator had a hard time working out. One of the reasons for this I believe is the number of Layers of operators to cover the Trails, hence a large sum to make them all happy. And of course the other one, the expensive cost of maintaining the experts, mostly the “after the facts” people to work as shield in case. like the people to spin, with never ending PR. correct the other inconsistencies. and some to attack directly at the “enemies”. More OBSERVATION As the saga develops…
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 7:44 pm
And before the Oberver goes to sleep, Mr. Lozada has the MEDIA to thank, one of the most despised institutions in the country for his new lease of life. We just don’t want to speculate what would “have been”,what could have been, it not for the Media making such a ruckus. Long live the Media People, you still have a long way to go yourselves, but at least this One for You…
Bert on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 7:57 pm
obserer, don’t forget the big one, the one who has the biggest cut of all, who can influence the queen anytime of day or night.
Bert on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 7:59 pm
that one to observer, heheh.
vic on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:01 pm
Bert, To allay all fears that GMA may use the Charter to perpetuate herself to power, the best thing to do, is to give a grace period of say a year or two after her term expires before the Charter takes effect.
A Charter is not just good for a set period of time. It is lasting documents. Pierre Trudeau was scored, until today and was compared (to you know who?) when he, in one of his speech stated that the l982 Charter will last a Thousand Years. The problem is not that it is defective, but some worries that Trudeau made it hard for Future amendments or revision. but that just Trudeau
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:04 pm
there’s a troller on the loose.
and i dnt think you’re the real rego who used to post in this blog. i’ve ready many of his posts, and it simply doesn’t have the troller quality you eminently display.
btw, it’s so much easier to simply ask for the link from manolo rather than digging in thousands of link posted in this blog, don’t you think?
magpakampi? lols. bencard can settle the question for himself once he reads the article im talking abt.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:18 pm
JMCastro, thank you for the condescending education. but now, let me wipe that smug smile from your face, by leading you back to your own link (na mali pa. the correct link is posted below) here are some things you should ponder upon
yes JM, your invocation is such an exception.
kaya i-lol mo ang sarili mo, dahil you just stuck your foot in your mouth.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:18 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
rego on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:32 pm
Nope! Im the same rego you ve privately emailed using the name J…is that enough proof? The thing is devils, I just dont agree with you this time. What is a troll ba?
Nagtaaon lang that i dont have much time visting this blog these days kaya sinagadsagad ko na ang mga comments ko. Kaw naman compare that to the number of comments youve posted since Jan mas marami a rin yung comments mo!
God know when will I ever have the chance to visit this blog again. So pag bigayan nyo na ako. Hayaan nyo I will be finished with this drawing/arch. plan that Im doing by 8 am and this blog will be all yours again.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:42 pm
rego,
ok. my bad. you’ve proved your identity. but i still can’t believe you’d resort so low as to flamebaiting.
i know you better than that.
and btw, i missed some of your more “sober” posts.
so, kindly accept my apology for the accusation.
but in no way, is this blog mine, you know that.
i’m just a reader and poster, same as you.
Kabayan on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 8:56 pm
Indeed an increase in number of baiters. I am glad that most bloggers can see through the ruse, best to ignore, mostly hot air anyway. We have to understand, they have to earn their pay.
Geo on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 9:47 pm
Keeping emotion out of the equation has become too much to ask for, I guess. Logic thus suffers. Herd mentality arises, bordering on a witch hunt.
Hopefully, irrational behavior will not ensue…..
qwert on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 10:28 pm
rego,
How was your project, natapos na ba? You seem so aggressive with your blogs, very different from the rego that we know, baka pati si Bencard manibago sa iyo.
JMCastro on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 10:59 pm
DevilsAdvc8:
I really don’t know how to link properly, just copied and pasted the link from Wikipedia. If I hit a raw nerve, then I apologize.
Still, I honestly think that simply invoking Martial Law and Marcos is a definite dead-ender to any Philippine political discussion, and that was my opinion when I made my earlier post. If it strikes you as irreverent or lacking in humility, again I apologize.
justice league on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:46 pm
Rego,
Your particular issue with Hawaiianguy is actually answerable within the quoted segment that you used.
“some parallels”- clearly indicates that there are “some” similarities but it does not mean that they are totally the same.
Your observation on the difference/s of the two therefore clearly lies outside the “some”.
BTW, this is at least the second time I’ve seen you put (what I believe to be) undue pressure on Bencard. But then, he might have a different view of it altogether.
Anyway, if you are going to finish your drawing/architectural plans by 8 AM; why does it come across that you’ll be having difficulty coming to this blog when it seems you won’t be working after 8 AM?
JMCastro on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:51 pm
Mita:
If by hero you mean a viable presidential candidate who can radically turn the Philippine political system upside down within two years, I kinda doubt it.
I wish it is possible for the Philippines to gain a certain measure of, I dunno, political peace (for lack of a better term) necessary for people to just be productive, and to grow. For all his faults, I actually liked JDV Sr. for his capability to reach political accommodation if only because that is, in my opinion, the primary essential requirement for any growth, be it economic, political, social, or whatever.
GMA is pretty much lacking in this regard, any fight Madame gets into escalates to the point where the battles get ugly, and people stop working to take stock of the body count.
And I refuse to believe that “economic growth” for the past couple of years, fueled primarily by OFW remittances, is true growth, since it is at the expense of spending people capital, the most precious capital in the wealth of nations.
Lastly, I think Lozada’s testimony, which I think sounds true, warts and all, matters in the short and long run. No avalanche of counter-affidavits can knock a single affidavit supported by testimony that is truthfully delivered. If all it achieves is an education to the Filipino people about how corruption is done in the highest positions of government, then Lozada’s sacrifice is worth it.
Bert on Sun, 10th Feb 2008 11:53 pm
“Bert, To allay all fears that GMA may use the Charter to perpetuate herself to power, the best thing to do, is to give a grace period of say a year or two after her term expires before the Charter takes effect.–vic
I cannot disagree with you on that, vic. All safeguards, and all good points of parliamentary form had been been discussed already and pointed out in various fora and in different guises, some sincere, some to misled. However it’s not the point. Your suggestion is easier said than done. I will repeat my previous statement(at 7:02 pm), anyone (or everyone) who will re-write a new charter will be invited to malacanan….
And you know how it is, if you won’t disregard our current history you will see that everything gloria wants gloria gets…by hook, or by other means.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 12:09 am
JMCastro, it is I who should apologize. i am being sucked into emotional arguments this last couple of posts. i know my reply to you is uncivil. i should’ve lessened my tone. im sorry.
but u must understand why i pointed out the limitation of invoking godwin’s law. it only applies when comparisons of nazi (or marcos) are drawn agst an opponent (or poster) and cannot hold true when valid comparisons are drawn (well, i believe them valid anyway. bencards disputes so)
eg. we are debating on a certain topic, perhaps democracy vs benevolent dictatorship. running out of arguments, i called you a nazi-loving pig for espousing benevolent dictatorship. that is an instant invitation to fall in the jaws of godwin’s law.
meanwhile, your instant invocation of godwin’s law fell to quirk’s exception. bec it is fallacious to invoke godwin’s law purely as a tool to rebut an opponent’s arguments, without proving why that opponent’s arguments fall into godwin’s law.
in short, you got lazy.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 12:14 am
anywhoo, this is as close as i can get to a marcos in retrospect article (and boy, upon re-reading this thread, i discovered a lot of golden posts)
http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1515
i know there’s a phil free press article i read(am not sure), an interview with locsin maybe or someone i can’t remember enumerating marcos’ steps in demolishing the opposition and then finally declaring martial law.
that’s the one i can’t find.
ay_naku on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 12:41 am
And the heightened shrillness in the baiting too. They can “hijack the agenda” and try to change the focus of the discussions, and yeah some bloggers are willing to indulge them, however pointless, malicious, intellectually dishonest, or just plain stupid their arguments might be.
I used to pay some attention to them, but no more. If in my best judgment I gauge that the comments are intellectually dishonest, or coming from people na patuloy na nagtatanga-tangahan (o talagang tanga) then I mostly just ignore them. I mean, we have to accept that some people are just hopeless cases. My time is too precious to waste.
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 1:20 am
Ca T,
Though she didn’t proclaim herself to be one, Acsa Ramirez
is a hero (at least afaik).
But the government initially didn’t view her that way.
She came forward to the authorities to complain about the misdeeds of her boss.
And what did the government do?
PGMA along with NBI director Wycoco presented her before the media as a suspect in the very same crime that she came forward to divulge.
She later recounted that she (Acsa) wanted to die right there and then.
Bereft of protection that the government should have afforded her in the first place, the government not only humiliated her before the nation but actually endangered her life as well as her family’s by practically telling the actual individuals involved in misdeeds that it was she who is responsible as for whatever charges that will fall on them.
You had there a person who the government certainly didn’t view as a hero. The governmnent not only tried to portray her as a criminal but they seriously tried to charge her as one as well.
Nevertheless they did act on her claims.
Later on, some people were charged based on the claims Acsa made. Fortunately she wasn’t one of them.
Maybe Lozada is a hero, maybe he isn’t. He might indeed be a self confessed criminal.
But why does it seem that acting (by the authorities) on the claims of a self confessed criminal (given his government status and supposed involvement) would be different from acting (by the authorities) on the claims of someone whom the authorities seriously wanted to make out as a criminal?
Authorities acted on the claims of someone they considered as a criminal. Shouldn’t they act also on the claims of someone who could be a self confessed criminal (hopefully on issues that could incriminate more people than just the particular guy)?
If so; then whether one is considered a hero or not doesn’t really matter that much, does it.
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 1:28 am
Oooopppssss.
Heroine pala dapat.
hawaiianguy on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 1:28 am
Thanks, Justice, for pointing out the problem to Rego.
Also thanks Devils, for your explanation of that Goodwin law which, by itself, makes comparison too farfetched, even invalid.
Haven’t responded yet to JMCastro, but I hope your query is now settled. For a while, I thought I got an instant online education there. Maybe we can talk over a cup of coffee sometime? Ditto for Rego, promise, ako ang bangka. Hindi ka pala Bisaya, kasi nag asusginoo ka eh!
Ayu-aku’s post is sobering.
JMCastro on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 1:29 am
DevilsAdvc8:
The edginess and passion that you apply to your arguments are quite refreshing.
Right from the get go, it has never been my intent to dwell within the niceties of Godwin’s law (which I don’t consider a law, more like a social observation). That you want to run it down to the bitter end is really something else.
I have no doubts about the strength of emotion in your convictions. I will definitely aim for less levity in my future posts.
hawaiianguy on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 1:38 am
Ay_naku pala. Damned keyboard!
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 1:45 am
Hawaiianguy,
You’re welcome.
vic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:21 am
Self-crimination 13. A witness who testifies in any proceedings has the right not to have any incriminating evidence so given used to incriminate that witness in any other proceedings, except in a prosecution for perjury or for the giving of contradictory evidence.
Justice League, above is the Section 13 of our Charter dealing with self-crimination which I believe you will also find somewhere in the Philippines Charter..It states plainly like in the case of Lozada, as long as he does not perjure or contradict himself, the evidence that may incriminate him in his own testimonies may not be used against him..it is a mechanism to make sure that witnesses are not going to commit perjury so as to pervert justice for fear of getting into big trouble themselves in account of their testimonies..
hvrds on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:51 am
Ingenuity, innovation and entreprenuership. The pinoy is really a marvel at it. The former Head Gatekeeper of the Electoral process became a de facto investment banker organizing and packaging a multibillion peso project on behalf of it seems Big Mike and GMA.
His capital became the power to grant electoral positions to his patrons.
The chief executive of the country is given the keys to the treasury.
A lot of people still do not see the serious implications of the present crisis in the country. For a predominantly landlord/comprador based economy trying to find a place in a world of financial capitalism coming apart. Financial markets are somewhat integrated but economies are still predominantly national. Modern societies are undergoing the shift from industrial capitalism to financial capitalism (industrialization to financialization)and emerging market economies are having the painful process of undergoing birth pangs in trying to safely integrate the coupling of financial markets into their weak underdeveloped economies.
The fight between the two proponents were the mode of paying for the project. The privatiation process would entail a little more transparency. The ODA loan package could be loaded with goodies. Keeping the technical parameters cloudy would give perosns concerned with oversight at bay. Even Neri himself had to call in his expert consultant in Lozada. Then it became simply a matter of how much would the boys share in the commission.
The one defining component of the industrialization process is the emergence and development of effective states. From the U.S. (soft intensity state capitalism)to the PRC (semi-hard intensity state capitalism)the state was a pro-active player in the developmental process. When the gold standard was abolished the power to create credit without limit by nation states (fiat currency) became the norm. GMA has started signing the present crop of Philippine currency notes. She signs on our behalf. She reigns with the consent of the governed (theoretically)and unfortunately it seems she is more concerned for her own families self-interest
In the context of the Philippine state it is still wrapped around the singular personality of autocrats. Big Mike and GMA and family believe themselves to be the state and the state is them.
The treasury is for them to use as they see fit. The Chinese government probably had no problem dealing with the government of Big Mike and GMA. They were dealing with the “Deciders.” Working in a semi-command autocratic system they were right at home in dealing with the Head Gatekeeper who was enabled not only by the royal couple but by key cabinet ministers and included the Speaker of the Congress.
For some minimizing this as a simple case of law enforcement is minimizing the the utter lack of the foundations that are necessary for the rule of law to operate. In a recent forum where a speech was delivered for Chief Justice Puno, he related the critical differnece between having a country governed under the rule of laws to one ruled by laws.
Under Big Mike and GMA the government is ruling by laws. They are the police, prosecutor, judge and executioner.
Low intensity facism that is simmering under the surface that could burst out in the open.
There is no credible opposition apart from the same type of outsiders to the gears of power supported by a still predominantly moribund Catholic heirarchy that still supports the idea of a neo-theocratic state.
The ugly vestige of the country’s colonial past.
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 3:20 am
Vic,
Is that automatic or does the person have to invoke a privilege or something?
vic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 3:46 am
Justice league, it’s a constitutional right, its automatic and can not be infringed.
A case right now, Guy Lafleur, the former biggest star of Hockey was charged of giving Contradictory Evidence during the testimony for his son (charged of sex offences) when he stated that he is making sure that his son was complying with the court bail conditions, when he was seen driving his son to meet his 16 year girlfriend..
vic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 3:50 am
Sorry the girl has nothing to do with son charges..among the bail condition that before the resolution of the case, the son is prohibited to have any meetings with girls…
vic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 3:57 am
JL, you may look at Charter of Rights and Freedoms Canada and go to legal rights. Actually the whole charter just 33 sections, very short, less than 20 pages. that is the basis of all challenges now and the reference to which new laws are drafted before they are enacted. because once the court dismissed the case on the challenge of the law constitutionality, then automatically that law has no longer any force and back to the drawing board..
The Ca t on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 5:40 am
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 8:01 am
Vic,
Just to clarify your claim; what if for instance while testifying on the case of his son, Guy Lafleur suddenly declares that he stole 10 million Dollars from some company or murdered someone; is that kind of information no longer usable on him?
But I’ll try to see your Charter tonight. Saw your post on the new thread but I just scanned that thread. I’ll read more of it tonight.
Ca T,
So if Lozada is not treated a hero and just given a deal to lessen his would be sentence so long as he provides information for the conviction of other guilty parties; would that be fine with you now?
vic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 8:38 am
Justice league, I believe the intention of the provision is for the testimonies to the Proceedings or the one that is being heard..in your scenario Guy would be confessing to a crime unrelated to the case of his son which he was a witness…never heard a case yet in your example..
Anyways Lafleur surrendered already as warrant was issued for his arrest. a minor cover-up of father to his very spoiled son that just didn’t escape the eyes of the law..
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 8:53 am
Vic,
THis is definitely my last post for the morning.
The nearest thing approximating your idea is the one on our Bill of rights wherein
“Section 17. No person shall be compelled to be a witness against himself.”
With emphasis on “compelled”.
We invoke the privilege against self incrimination here. Not exactly as seemingly automatic as yours.
The Ca t on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 9:28 am
But this hero treatment is just a hype to make him a credible witness. It’s all in the package–the presence of the nuns, the crying “moments” and the abduction scenario.
Unfortunately, I am not convinced.
So who’s preventing him to stop testifying. He’s already in the Senate. Is this the kind of witness that claim he’s doing it for the country. When further asked about the conversation between Neri and Arroyo, he refused to divulge what he knew because it was given in confidence to him by who else–Neri. Therefore, he’s much concerned about Neri than the Filipino people who’s seeking for the truth.
Read the transcript:
Ano siya pari na hindi puwedeng sabihin ang ikinumpisal?
vic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 9:58 am
JL, Thanks and goodnight..and the beauty of our Charter once violated even the authorities are subject of being sued..
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 10:50 am
Re: “Ano siya pari na hindi puwedeng sabihin ang ikinumpisal?”
Agree with the Cat!
Put up or shut up is what I say. These dithering tactics are not gonna advance his cause.
fiball on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 11:08 am
Ano siya pari na hindi puwedeng sabihin ang ikinumpisal?
– Ayon naman po ang malisyosang interpretasyon ng isang taong di marunong umintindi. Di nya maintindihan na ang dahilan ni Lozada ay dahil si Neri ay nagsabing confidential ito at sila po ay magkaibigian. Sheesh, wala siguro syang kaibigan kasi kaya di nya maintindihan ito.
At MBW, these are not “dithering tactics”. If you saw the testimony of Lozada when he was being asked about NEri, he felt very discomfited. So what tactics? I mean give the guy some space and some pity! We are asking too much of this guy who has almost given up everything! In the first place, it is other people who are treating him as if he is a hero.
The Ca t on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 11:23 am
Sabi niya ginagawa niya para sa Bayan at sa Pilipino.
Bakit tameme siya noong tinanong siya na ang sagot pwedeng magpahamak kay Neri?
Ano ba una? Bayan o kaibigan. Para sa sinasabing hero?
Nakuha mo? hindi kailangan yan ng interpretasyon o napakalim para saiyong intindihin?
fiball on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 11:36 am
Ikaw ang sagsasabing hero sya — hindi sya. Sheesh. The pressure must be placed on Neri — not him, because Lozada obviously reached a point na he values his friendship with Neri. O ano — have you not ever reached a point that you want to protect a friend or a family member? Sheesh! You lack humanity in your accusations — shows in how much you want to discredit a person who spoke out the truth!
alas ka dora on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 11:43 am
Cat,
I think you dont get it. Nagreklamo sya na ginamit nya ang credit card nya dun sa trip nya sa Hong Kong kasi he was sent there by Atienza on the pretext of attending a seminar on forstry pero hindi naman pala naka registro as one of the participants ang Pilipinas.
Bakit ginugulo pa natin ang issue bakit hindi natin aminin na cover up ang lahat.Kung talagang walang anomalya ang NBN-ZTE deal bakit hindi ipinagpatuloy ang programa. Anong ebidensya pa ba ang kailangan? Of course, hindi naman pwedeng ilagay sa contrata na may kickback si Abalos at FG ng 132 m USD. Only a die hard malacanang lackey will try to muddle the testimony of Lozada by raising irrelevant detail like- he cried.
b.vodka on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 12:21 pm
Cat,
Sorry, i dont have time to check previous posts for your errors. Pero there you go again, nagpapakafeeling lawyer with your new post (see below)–
“As a forensic would define hearsay; even a witness’ testimony is a hearsay if it can not be substantiated with hard evidences.”
haha saang law book galing definition mo? magconsult ka naman minsan sa lawyer before shooting your mouth of. libre naman sa PAO (in city hall) if you cant afford one eh. and while youre at it consult an english teacher too.
“Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh”, as you are wont to say
The Ca t on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 12:49 pm
Nagmagaling ka naman, baka di mo pa naintindihan ang forensic experts.
Kilala mo lang siguro yong mga notaryo publiko sa city hall ninyo. Hindi lahat trial lawyer, gets mo.
Palagay ko ikaw may kailangang magkonsulta sa English teacher.
if you <cant afford one eh. and while youre at it consult an english teacher too.
The Ca t on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 12:52 pm
We’ll in the first place, he knew why he was being sent.
He was communicating with Atienza until he panicked and changed his mind.
PANIC lang yon sa kaniya kaya siya sumigaw ng ABDUCTION. Otherwise, he was being treated like a VIP for his protection.
hawaiianguy on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 12:56 pm
b. vodka,
A forensic expert is not necesarily a lawyer. In fact, most of them are anthropologists, criminologists, chemists, biologists. In the Philippines, anthropologist Jerome Baylon (hope I spelled his name right) from UP is an example.
alas ka dora on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:01 pm
Yes, he knew why he was being sent kaya nga he should not foot the bill. Hindi nya kagustuhan pumunta ng Hong Kong. I could imagine his dilemna between facing the senate investgation and spill all that he knew that will expose himself and his loved ones to peril or pehaps doing a jocjoc volante.
Ikaw kaya malagay sa kalagayan nya magsasalita ka ba o po-protektahan mo si GMA?
alas ka dora on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:04 pm
ang nag pa-panic ang administration because of Jun Lozada’s testimony they wouldn’t know where to bury their faces. Yan kung hindi pa gaanong makapal ang mukha nila
alas ka dora on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:10 pm
again, Cat, irrelevant na kung nag panic sya o hindi ang punto rito na expose nya kabahuan ng Malacanang at mga nasa likod ng contrata. Kung ako kay jocjoc volante, i will also do a Lozada kesa habang buhay syang nagtatago. kung talagang wala syang gnawa he can face any investgation
The Ca t on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:39 pm
His expose is no longer news. It has already been exposed by Neri. What additional material evidences did he present to strengthen the accusations hurled to Abalos and FG?
He was still pointing to Neri as the last person who can
really link Malacanan to the NBN fiasco.
Again accusations will remain accusations without the evidences. Even a confession can still be excluded as evidence if it was obtained in an unlawful manner. Sad but true but that is how the law operates and how it is interpreted.
The Ca t on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:46 pm
bakit niya pinoprotectahan si Neri? Why is he withholding information if he’s really sincere in exposing the corruption in the government?
And why are you asking me? In the first place, I would not be in his predicament because if I hate corruption, I will not involve myself in any transaction where I will be tempted to commit one. Nabasa mo ba ang blog ko entitled Keep the Change?
skwartio on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:47 pm
alam nyo sa totoo lang itong mga last statement ni lozada nag sisinungaling na sya para bang na brief na sya ng mga opposition na nasa senado. halata kasing nabubuko sya nitong mga huling statement ng mga tao na sangkot din sa pag dukot kay lozada. sila-sila rin ang maghahati-hati ng kick-back ng mga iyan kaya tumahimik nalang kayo sa kaka alaskador puro pariho lang kayo mag trabaho na ngalang kayo at wag na kayong maki sali sa gulo ng gobyerno lalo lang gugulo baka mamaya kunin pa kayong witness hala patay kayo sa ka popost nyo ng mga walang kwentang comento.
Jon Mariano on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 2:52 pm
Kung nagsisinungaling si Lozada, ipakulong! Kung hindi, ipakulong ang mga magnanakaw na kanyang itinuro!
mang_isko on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 3:20 pm
sabi ni j-lo hindi daw sila nag-uusap ni lacson, ngayon si lacson na mismo ang nagsabi kinausap niya si j-lo!
hayyyyyyy naku!
ang gulo ni j-lo!
alas ka dora on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 3:26 pm
From the Cat-what his expose is no longer news.
Well we know for a fact that Neri in the initial investigation by the Senate revealed only the 200 million promised to him by Abalos should the contract pushed through. But Lozada said that the entire price was overpriced by so much (132 m usd)supposedly as kickback of Abalos and FG. This one is something new.
Liam Tinio on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 4:26 pm
just consider it another chismis session in the senate..
alas ka dora on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 4:37 pm
Liam Tinio, why don’t you answer this challenge to you by ricelander in the above thread -
“So you think the project is aboveboard and therefore defensible. If you were the President how would you react to this “scandalâ€?
As for me, if I were the President I would assemble experts who will defend the project, gather all those involved in every step, get all the documents, and challenge all and everyone to a debate. Number for number. Technology for technology.
What did the government do to defend the project: cancel the project, make part of the documents disappear, invoke executive privilege, and so on and so forth. Looks counterintuitive to me, but it’s probably just me and the few among here.
Anyway, if you were the President, and your bastard enemies are insinuating you are a thief, how would you do it?”
Liam Tinio on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 4:56 pm
[b]So you think the project is aboveboard and therefore defensible. If you were the President how would you react to this “scandal�[/b]
if i were the president and this really was my pet project, i would do it exactly as ricelander said it.
ricelander: “As for me, if I were the President I would assemble experts who will defend the project, gather all those involved in every step, get all the documents, and challenge all and everyone to a debate. Number for number. Technology for technology.”
but as far as i know, this project wasn’t one of her priorities.. it was one of the MANY proposals that went through because of influential backing, which i think is not bad, since almost all projects start this way..
she just scrapped it because its irritating.. and its ruining the momentum.. plus its non essential.. there are other things that needs her urgent attention..
[b]Anyway, if you were the President, and your bastard enemies are insinuating you are a thief, how would you do it?â€[/b]
she’s receiving the same allegations day-in day-out. but unless they come up with evidence STRONG ENOUGH TO OUST HER, let them do and say whatever they want for she is preoccupied with other things she thinks will be good for the country..
UNLESS THE EVIDENCE(THERE ISNT EVEN EVIDENCE) IS STRONG AND COMPELLING ENOUGH THIS ISSUE DOES NOT DESERVE A SINGLE WORD FROM HER MOUTH..
only evidence would spring her into action
Kabayan on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 4:57 pm
nash wrote:
“Whatever happened to the hard-hitting TV journalist who exposed corruption and helped the poor back when he had a weekend TV show?
NOLI de CASTRO.
Where is he? Did he vanish? Shall we send out a search party”
—
No need to send out a search party, he wants to be lost. He’s been lost for some time now. Somewhere along the way he lost his b*lls.
alas ka dora on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 6:16 pm
the project was supposed to give the poor citizens access to infomation. if you listen to her minions defend this project at the onset of Lozada’s testimony, the project seemed to do the citizens so much good that’s why the price. And if this is not her priority at all why bother negotiate with the chinese.
vic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 7:07 pm
Let face there were and are corruptions going on, the only problem most of them, even the Senators pretending to expose them are all in the Game, otherwise Estrada would have not been convicted for Plunder..Marcos would have not been designated as the Top Ten among the Most Corrupt Leaders of the World and Joc-Joc is still somewhere in the U.S. and nobody wants him home, because he too knows too much and those that had already put their shares in some safe places would rather see rot somewhere and by the Way somehow was really Indebted to Mr. Abalos for a very coveted Post of the Land and people still wondering why he was involved in the NBN deal..just circumstantial evidence that means squat in the Philippines that even a rock solid “hard” evidence easily melted by a handful of brown envelop or boxes of milk cartoons..saw that picture of Mike D. getting back his 50 grand..El Chepo…If it’s 50 millions he won’t be seeing it back..
serkastic on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 7:50 pm
i think the faa downgrade with regards to the state of our airport is very laudable. they have a foresight that our airports are not safe. so countries who care for their citizens quickly issued travel advisories, not only our airports are poorly equipped, people can get kidnapped even in the tube. i think this govenment wont make such advisories, very improbable!
Kabayan on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 8:02 pm
serkastic,
If this administration really wants to, you can get kidnapped anywhere.
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 11:08 pm
Ca T,
Before the likes of Clarisa Ocampo surfaced in the impeachment of then President Estrada; the major witness against him was Chavit Singson.
Like Lozada; somehow some people regarded Singson as a hero.
Like Lozada, Singson somehow feared for his life; on a supposed assassination attempt brought about by an alleged traffic violation wherein policemen tried to pull over his vehicle. Afterwards he made the revelation on the scams then president Estrada was supposed to have been involved in.
Unlike Lozada however, Singson chose not to surround himself with nuns. Instead he chose to hide behind Cardinal Sin.
And infront of the good Cardinal; Singson unabashedly cried. I can’t remember if there were tears though but I’ll just guess that there were.
And instead of pronouncing that he was denouncing the scams because of his love for the country; he stated that he was doing it as his penance, as his moral crusade, that he was doing it for the future of the Filipino children, etc……
When a bribery ledger was brought forward in the impeachment trial, a bribery ledger that came from Singson; Singson was asked the real identity of some of the codenames contained.
Singson obliged.
AS stood for Asiong Salonga and referred to President Estrada and then so forth.
But pressed for the identities of CERTAIN codenames like RC etc… , Singson appeared reluctant. He gave excuses after excuses but the real identities couldn’t be extracted from him.
Could it be that the identites of certain individuals were more important than the future of the Filipino children?
And then came the likes of Clarissa Ocampo.
Maybe if the claims of Lozada are pursued; someone with the credibility of the likes of A Clarissa Ocampo might just come along. Or then maybe not.
But are YOU willing to give the Lozada claim a chance?
The presence with Cardinal Sin, the crying moment, the supposed assassination attempt; in the end, it didn’t adversely affect the claims of Singson.
So does the supposed “packaging” of Lozada affect you that much?
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 11:09 pm
Vic,
Sorry but I just can’t read the Canadian Charter tonight.
Maybe next time.
justice league on Mon, 11th Feb 2008 11:15 pm
Oooopppss.
I meant impeachment trial of then President Estrada.
vic on Tue, 12th Feb 2008 12:19 am
JL, don’t worry much, it is somewhat similar to the Bills of Rights, only very brief and succinct and to the point. Imagine a preamble which just look like this:
Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:
The Ca t on Tue, 12th Feb 2008 4:53 am
My impression on whistleblowers never changed. I did not consider Chavit singson a hero. As you can read my previous comments, i have no respect for people who will go out only to expose corruptions and anomalies for their own selfish reasons.
In my book, a hero is not someone whose life is endangered because of his own wrongdoing.
A hero is someone who when made to choose between friends, relatives and country, he will choose the country.
I admired Singson’s secretary though when she testified in the Senate. She was straightforward and never was intimidated by the questioning of the veteran defense lawyers. Hindi siya umiyak. Neither did Clarissa.
It is not the testimony of Singson which nailed Estrada.
They were the papers, photos and other documents that the prosecutors presented as hard evidences.
So even if the expose was made by a whistleblower, there is no guarantee of indictment and conviction.
If the Senate finds substantial evidence to bring a case against Abalos to Sandiganbayan, then by all means, they can do so. But the way, I see it, mas papicture picture lang yong mga senador para lang mapansin at mabanggit sa media.
hawaiianguy on Tue, 12th Feb 2008 5:18 am
Cat: “It is not the testimony of Singson which nailed Estrada. They were the papers, photos and other documents that the prosecutors presented as hard evidences.”
True. In the same way, couldn’t it be possible that from Lozada, those papers…documents would later come up as part of the “collateral damage?”
Start from the Abalos plan to file libel. And he should do against 3 persons, not just against Lozada. FG should also do his, if he thinks in the same mold.
The Ca t on Tue, 12th Feb 2008 2:23 pm
Do you ever see an effort from the Senate doing this?
b.vodka on Tue, 12th Feb 2008 3:22 pm
hawaiian guy, i wasnt taking about forensic experts so i dont know why you are addressing me when you choose to define forensics experts.
cat,
so sloooooooow.
i was referring to your definition of hearsay.
o ano gets mo na.
mali po.
ang definition mo.
ok na ba?
o bagalan ko pa.
but why do i bother?! im just dragging myself down reading your inane posts.
dont bother replying.
hawaiianguy on Tue, 12th Feb 2008 3:42 pm
b. vodka,
Ganun ba? Am sorry if I mistook your sentence. Ganito kasi sinabi mo eh:
Sagot sa “As a forensic would define hearsay;”
“haha saang law book galing definition mo? magconsult ka naman minsan sa lawyer before shooting your mouth of.”
The Ca t on Tue, 12th Feb 2008 5:12 pm
So dumb.
It was not my definition. I quoted a forensic expert from CSI. Panay lang kasi panood ng mga walang kuwentang TV show.
That’s the reason why someone gave you the definition of a forensic expert.
And you’re giving me an advice to consult a lawyer from your City Hall when we had batteries of lawyers here in the US when we had a harassment case.
Ang mga wala pang inabot, napakayabang.
justice league on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 12:18 am
Ca T
So it seems both Lozada and Singson are non-heroes as far as you are concerned.
But the claims of the non-hero Singson bore fruit.
Proof is the conviction in the SandiganBayan of ex-Pres. Estrada of plunder for amassing wealth; one of which thru jueteng collections.
Your contention is that it was not the testimony of the non-hero Singson which nailed Estrada. That instead it was the papers, photos and other documents that the prosecutors presented as hard evidences.
So you are telling us now that even without the non-hero Singson testifying about the bribery ledger; the said ledger would have been hard evidence against ex-Pres. Estrada.
That the prosecutors and the court on their own could decipher the contents of the ledger like “7/14 AS/258 2.650″ meant P2,650,000.00 was given to ex-Pres. Estrada on July 14,2000 , that “8/16 AS/258 3.050″ meant P3,050,000.00 was given to ex-pres. Estrada on August 16, 2000 and so forth.
But are you also telling us that the court would have had their hands on that ledger if Singson did not provide it in the first place or squealed on the name of Yolanda Ricaforte (who had her own bribery ledger)?
You extoll the non-hero Singson’s secretary’s and Clarissa Ocampo’s decorum during their testimony. Alright they deserve it.
But are you implying that they would have come out on their own and denounced the highest official of the land even if the non-hero Singson had not already paved the way for them to do so?
Singson did not present evidence when he denounced the scam. He presented it bit by bit later to try to prove his claims.
Maybe Lozada can also do so to prove his claims. But then maybe he can’t.
But you did say that “If the Senate finds substantial evidence to bring a case ….”; so in the end, whether you consider Lozada as a hero or not is irrelevant, isn’t it?
sunny ignes on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 6:33 am
Mr Jun Lozada should be jailed along with everybody that will fall in this ZTE mess. He is very credible in his testimoy, which is great,but we should never mistake credibility with integrity. It is unfortunate to hear and see people whom I respect fall for guys like Jun Lozada because of thier emotions and not thier reasoning. I am referring to the nuns and brothers that escorted him. There is no way that he should be praised with words like courageous, hero .. some even used saint in thier sentences to describe him. It is insulting. What king of message are we sending our children… OK lang magnakaw ka basta malakihan lang, pagkatapos pag nahuli ka ituro mo lang yong mga kasabwat mo na mas impotante sa yo o malakihan magnakaw kaysa sa yo.
justice league on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 8:10 am
Sunny Ignes,
Long before Lozada came, there is already a concept of a state witness coming from those accused.
Whether certain people believe such accused is hero or not is irrelevant for the protection of the “squealer” from further prosecution for that offense.
b.vodka on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 11:05 am
well, your battery of lawyers (not batteries. sheeesh) obviously did not do you any good. And when you quoted the forensics’ definition, you made it your own, didnt you. So dont dissociate from it.
I just corrected it. D mo matanggap?
And how would would you know where ive been? wala pa akong inabot because i am not in the states? hahaha. ive been there before. and the ten year visa’s been renewed. but i dont see the need to go there. nagpapakafeeling ka e youl be a second class citizen there forever. pinagmamalaki mo pa.
sheeeesh.
Mita on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 11:28 am
sunny has a point though. the day we make heroes out of self-confessed crooks (Lozada says he doesn’t consider himself a hero) is the day we give up on our principles…
why should we do this? out of convenience? there are just certain things in life you cannot and should not sacrifice – just because we are lacking in genuine heroes.
sunny ignes on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 1:29 pm
justice league,
I agree with you on the concept of witness protection. however i still maintain that when you are a thief you should be treated like one wether you squelled or not. should he earn to be placed in the witness protection program so be it.
cha on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 1:34 pm
Joker Arroyo was very disappointing–mukhang pera din pala. I regret now that I voted for him everytime he ran for the senate-even when he joined Gloria.
Mirriam Santiago is getting crazier each day. I’m glad she never got to be president. I just feel sorry for all the people she sentenced when she was a judge. She probably destoyed a lot af people and families with her crazy judgements. She should be in a mental hospital before she victimizes more people.
louie on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 1:46 pm
1. I may not be popular with what I am about to share with you. I am not a psychologist but after reviewing the TV clips and the statements, I believe the Filipinos are in for a ride. You have a savvy con artist in your hand.
2. Ask yourself the question how he made it to IBM, Alcatel, then to the Govt. It is obvious he is a good marketing trickster. If you analyze the pattern of events you will see a common denominator. I have seen a lot of those in my business work and its something amazing how one can sell his whole shirt to make the deal and climb the ladder.
3. He said his boss in the Middle East was so impressed with his work that as a result ask him to bring more of his classmates which he had proposed. what a proposal!
4. He said he got the job with Victor Corpuz because he offered him help in reviewing the Cyber Education proposal Corpuz was planning to present
5. He said Neri called him in to help him understand the ZTE Broadband proposal and AH broadband proposal.
6. He went to all the big names in politics because he does not want to appear in the Senate. This was his proposal to get opinions everywhere. With his sweet talking style, he was able to harness all the opinions and help in the political marketplace. Note how he dropped names left and right at the witness stand.
7. Atty Bautista made some interesting statements. Lozado was very impressed with how Atty Bautista can summarize what they have discussed. In return Lozado quip to help him do some business since he has a 50 hectare land. Atty Bautista said he was God sent since Bautista was looking into those opportunities. Atty Bautista also mentioned that Lozado pointed out to him that somehow that being a UST centennial awardee was not included in the affidavit.
8. The President of De La Salle has said that Lozado prearranged to keep the Lozado family at De La Salle before his departure to Hong Kong. So he had a master plan how to stage the De La Salle fiasco.
9. If he claimed that he was kidnapped and he knew where his family why did he not called the De La Salle brothers for whom he connived for the shelter of his family.
10. The sergeant at arm of Congress, De La Salle President, and his family is supposed to meet him at the airport. Is this not a stage event? So maybe there is direct communication in HKG with Lozado family and who else??
11. I may assume the “govt†is also caught in the spin thinking that Lozado is a govt official he is entitled to be protected by the govt that he finally denounced. They may have also their counter plan of escape that had been turned to “kidnapped”. Its a drama in the making. The question who is really a better director to the stage play.The masses are watching a good opera in the making. The question who will be the fall persona and bless by the Church leaders whose heads are also been spinned.
You can tell me I am wrong I am looking at the pattern “proposal ante anteâ€. All those testimonies are laid bare in public to us to judge. Unfortunately in our search for truth we are for a good spin on both side of the equation.
The Ca t on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 3:44 pm
There is again your ignorance.
I said batteries of lawyers because we have a group of lawyers for each case.
Unlike in the Philippines when even a notary public, abogadong pulpol can represent you in court, here, you got to get lawyers for every case.
Corporate lawyers cannot handle immigration cases, it has to be an immigration lawyer. Corporate lawyers can not handle patent and copyright issues; it has to be a patent lawyer; Divorce lawyers handle divorce proceedings and personal injury lawyers handle accidents and car mishaps.
And if it is a corporation like what we owned where stockholders were sued separately with that of the corporate entity, you really need to have batteries of lawyers, one for each stockholder and another group of lawyers for the corporation itself.
Are you now educated?
Castador on Wed, 13th Feb 2008 5:11 pm
I believed J-Lo (Jun Lozada) is telling the truth. Ang isang pagkakamali lang nya ay sinabi nya kay Atienza ang detalye ng nalalaman nya tungkol sa zte deal, na agad namang iniulat ni Atienza sa Malakanyang at doon na nagsimula ang plano nila. Ang pag-alis at pagbalik ni Jlo ay mistulang may timer sa mga mata ng gobyerno ni GMA. Mahigpit ang seguridad sa NAIA, hindi basta-basta nakakapasok ang kung sino lang para sunduin doon sa loob ng tarmak mismo. Pero dahil galing sa taas ang utos, lahat tiklop-tuhod at sunod-sunoran ang mga ahensya ng gobyerno. Lahat kailangan pagtakpan. Military trained ang karamihan sa alipores ni GMA, madaling gumawa ng lusot, maparaan, kasihudang may masagasaan at mamatay. Meron din silang tinatawag na Damage Control Team, kasama dito ang liquidation squad to facify the talking public. Idea din ito ng mga militar..ang number 1 killer ng human rights. Look, ano ang nangyari after the decision on impeachment last october? galit ang mga tao. to divert the attention, pinasabog ang glorieta..para di halata, methane gas daw ang dahilan at aksidente ang pagsabog. After the decision on Anti-terrorism bill, pinasabog ang Batasan, para madivert na naman ang atensyon. Maraming divertion tactics ang ginagawa ng militar.
Hindi tayo santo, lahat me kasalanan. Marahil ang iba ay nagkakasala lalo dahil sa pagsunod sa gusto ng iba. Sana kung magkakamali man tayo, sana tayo lang ang apektado. Pero kung magkakamali ka at buong sambayanan ang magsasakripisyo, wala kang puwang sa gobyerno.
Malamang sa hindi, dahil sa halos lahat ng pamilya ni GMA ay nasa pulitika, halos lahat ng kabulukan sa gobyerno ay dala ng kanyang pamilya.
Kung seryoso ang GMA government na ayusin ang gobyerno, una nyang paalisin sa pulitika ang kanyang pamilya. Nakakaladkad ang impluwensya nya hanggang sa kamara dala ng kanyang dalawang anak. Tingnan nyo na lang kung gaano kadaling magpalit ng Speaker sa congreso ang gobyerno.
Di ako aktibista, at lalong di ako pulitiko, isa lang akong taxpayer..masakit sa loob ko na ang bawat sentimong kinakaltas sa sahod ko ay mapupunta lang sa luho ng mga pulitiko.
Sana isa lang sa isang pamilya ang pwedeng pumasok sa pulitika at hindi isang buong pamilya para mabigyan ng pagkakataon ang iba na mamuno at magsilbi ng maayos sa taumbayan.
Zel on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 1:02 am
There seems to be a cloud of inaction that envelops the decent citizens of this country. But this inaction I think must never be mistaken for indifference and apathy. I think if there is one thing that hinders the decent majority to DO SOMETHING it is the fact that we no longer know what to do.
I for one am on the verge of exploding. My senses has been obscenely offended and violated by all that is happening around me but I have also been burned before by joining rash action led by people with less than honorable and honest intentions.
In as much as I support Mr. Jun Lozada with my whole heart and soul and will do everything to make sure his sacrifices are worth something, I will NOT JOIN the protest actions on Friday. I cannot join people who use to support officials who are very much like the people I pray will be removed from office today.
They have lost their moral ascendancy for me to follow them. Taking the cue from Mr. Jun Lozada, I REFUSE TO BE USED by either the opposition or the administration. Because in reality these two warring sides are 99.99% similar. They are carbon copies of each other.
I keep on hearing people say we need to heal the wounds of EDSA. I wondered why the wounds don’t heal from the time of the Marcoses until the present. I then realized what common sense tells us. DIRTY WOUNDS DON’T HEAL, THEY GET WORSE!
We never clean our wounds. We just cover them up with bandages over bandages over bandages! All we do is stitch things together and let the pus go wild inside. So now everytime we move, we feel the pain. With this pain we can never get too far. We will never get well until we CLEAN them all.
I love how Mr. Quezon explains the value of history, because at 34 I cant seem to recall who wronged us just 20 years ago. Are the Marcoses guilty? Did they wrong us? Did they steal from us as brazenly as the Arroyo’s are allegedly stealing from us now? I never got a clear answer to that. WE NEVER GET ANSWERS! We do not even know who killed Ninoy and worse we cant seem to agree who did.
The time has come for us to speak openly about these sores. It will definitely hurt a lot more now because our wounds as a nation is gravely infected by lies and more lies. If we do not do this now, we deserve to lose it all.
Terry Quiatchon on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 3:25 am
as a Fil-American living in Los Angeles, CA for 30 years, i admire the courage of our new hero’s ika nga…for many many years…wala tayong matinong govt. employee that at least at the end of the day…the care for this country is greater than his own personal agenda..Im from Calamba, Laguna now it’s Calamba City…As a Fil-American i continue my participation in the act of volunteering social and economic contribution to my C0-Fellow Fil-American Fund Raising here in Los Angeles NAMELY AS follows: CALAMBA ASSOCIATION OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA; JP RIZAL MONUMENT MOVEMENT; PeDRO (Philippine Emergency Disaster Relief Org.)all are non-profit organization dedicated to serve the poor countrymen in the PHil..
Now with the current situation from Jun Lozada’s testimony at the senate hearing…the least i can offer is to talk to my relatives and friends in Calamba to participate in the rally to show support to Jun Lozada…Yes I provide their transportation and food…As a Filipino American ..This is the best i can support Jun Lozada’s testimony in the senate against the current Philippine administration blindness to the Truth and the defying admittance of wrong doings by all these allegations of Corruption and Lies to the People of the Philippines…These Administration and to all Corrupt Goverment Officials starts their Corruption and Power Grabbing after the Oath Taking of their Position..Once they took the Oath…they all become Liars and stupid when they get caught and becomes Ignorant what INTEGRITY stands for. Yours Truly!!
hawaiianguy on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 4:32 am
Castador, Zel, Terry:
Those are very enlightening and moving posts, indeed.
Yes, follow your conscience. That’s the best thing to do under these trying times when it’s hard to find models anymore, or when those models represent some vicious streak masquerading as saintly.
Zel, “They have lost their moral ascendancy for me to follow them. Taking the cue from Mr. Jun Lozada, I REFUSE TO BE USED by either the opposition or the administration.”
When push comes to shove, you got to make a decision. Stay away from the “used” word and follow your heart (I don’t imply mindlessly).
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 8:19 am
“I admired Singson’s secretary though when she testified in the Senate. She was straightforward and never was intimidated by the questioning of the veteran defense lawyers. Hindi siya umiyak. Neither did Clarissa.- the Ca t”
Singson’s secretary, well, the two of them, are now Directors of Poro Point Management Corp. Clarissa is a director in some gov’t controlled corp. “Heroism” PAYS.
Mita on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 8:50 am
Tongue,
Clarissa Ocampo gave up a lot for her testimony. Her family was never the same again after her appearance at the Senate…
big boy (calamba) laguna on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 1:17 pm
Sana sa pag bulgar ni Jun lozada sa mga katawalian ng kasulukuyan pamahalan ay magising na ang bawat pilipino na panahon na para tumayo kayo sa inyong paniniwala at ipaglaban kung ano ang tama mahalaga sa bawat mamayang pilipino na wag kalimutan ang ginawa ng ating pambangsang bayani na si Dr. Jose Rizal wag kayong matakot kung alam nyo tama ang inyong pinaglalaban tulad nang pinaglaban ni Dr. Jose Rizal kaya ipaglaban natin ang tama. Ngayon si jun lozado ay isang tao na may paniningdigan kung siya nagawa niya sabihin ang totoo kung kaya niya humarap sa katotohanan eh di kaya natin ang ginawa nya sa sambayanan filipino. to all OFW pls cooperate to Jun Lozada to find the truth!!!!!!!!!!!
b.vodka on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 2:27 pm
hey cat, i guess there shouldnt be any surprise that youre the subject of a ton of cases but i gave you too much credit. mwahahahahaha.
ok this is getting boring already.
and dont talk about ignorance kasi if you were not as ignorant, you wouldnt be presuming to discuss the fields of law to a lawyer like me. mukha kang ewan.
The Ca t on Thu, 14th Feb 2008 7:46 pm
Oh i believe that you are a lawyer. Even a notary public in the Philippines finished law.
here in the US a notary public is not a law graduate. He is a graduate of a six-month course and has taken a state exam for notary public. ayan additional knowledge saiyo.
If you are a lawyer, you should know that if you’re in business, you are more open to civil suits.
But hey, awa na ako saiyo, baka nagagstusan ka ng maghanap ng internet cafe para sagutin lang ako.
bwahahaha
Andrew Tan on Fri, 15th Feb 2008 12:25 am
Jun Lozada is being used by ambitious politicians who want to take advantage of the situation. Walang matinong personalities sa mga sasali sa protesta bukas, lahat iniisip ang sarili nilang kapakanan
b.vodka on Fri, 15th Feb 2008 1:43 pm
someone who finished law is not a lawyer. he is a law graduate. when he passes the bar he becomes a lawyer. so stop obsessing about notary publics, who do not have any connection with any topic here. wala rin akong pakialam sa notary publics in the US if thats what you aspire to be.
puro ka non sequitur. being in business doesnt make you more open to civil suits. doing bad business does. and of course, engaging in illegal activities. maybe you know a thing or two about that.
and mukhang naubusan ka na yata ng argumento? pati saan ako nagiinternet pinatulan mo. so what if sa internet cafe ako? so what if kailangan pa akong umutang para maginternet? does that detract from my argument? but to answer your moronic comment, no, 24-7 ang internet service dito sa bahay kasi unlimited. dito sa pilipinas, lahat ng bahay na may internet, unlimited!
di lang bankrupt ang arguments mo pati pala values mo. pera lang pala maipagmamalaki mo! figures. in the first place sa yo ba yan o sabit ka lang sa family business??
cut your losses already!
b.vodka on Fri, 15th Feb 2008 2:29 pm
For those missing the forest for the trees:
Sabihin pa nating jun lozada is the antichrist, a crying antichrist if you will, but if his testimony speaks of the truth then anong pakialam pa natin sa pagkatao niya. the truth is the truth. was abalos and malacanang about to get 130 million dollars (at least P5.2B) from the ZTE deal or not? why are some people busy hairsplitting and talking about irrelevant or peripheral issues? kagat naman yung iba.
others say they dont want to be used by politicians, etc. during rallies. so ano sit back nalang, let malacanang complete their deals one after the other. let each deal be more onerous to the people than the last? it’s the same with the original EDSA revolution. should people have said then, what? enrile and ramos are behind it? Oh no, these people were part and parcel of martial law. I cannot possibly be used by these opportunists to topple Marcos.
and to those who scream “rule of law”, well thats just nice and dandy but what did the Ombudsman do with the seven cases that were actually filed by well-meaning citizens vs. those involved in the ZTE deal? ………
.
.
.
.
.
.
………WALA SYEMPRE! Oh sorry, meron pala. INUPUAN ang mga kaso.
Panoorin niyo nalang how fast the cases vs. Lozada will go compared with the Abalos cases which were filed like 6 months ago but which no one has heard from again since. But hey whats the rush? Even if binilisan theres really no point, he’l be acquitted just as he was acquitted in the Mega Pacific deal/scam. I suppose makwenta lang ako masyado, kasi, whats wrong with a few more billions?
Dedicated on Sat, 16th Feb 2008 12:37 am
No matter what made Jun Lozada came out, one thing is for sure… this administration is “very scary”!!!.
I believe in Jun Lozada’s testimony and ironically, it is the accused who has made his testimony even believable beyond reasonable doubt.
Sad to say, I have to agree w/ Cha. I voted for Joker last election, but it turns out that he’s no better than the others, specially her boss “GMA”. I mean, I think he has the right to protect his wife but he should have not threatened Lozada like that, instead he could have asked his wife first.
And to General Razon… WHAT A LIAR!!! (VERY VERY DISAPPOINTING!!!) How I wish you will go through what Jun Lozada’s family felt when they don’t know where you’re “FAT MAN” Mascarinas brought him….. My respect for Razon went down to the drain from 100% to inefinite negative.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 16th Feb 2008 3:01 am
Razon only betrayed his true color. This damned lying and cheating govt is really infectious. Some people who adore Razon as an impartial person and a man of himself are really disappointed. How could a man of that stature lie in public?
Of course, the police is able to produce an “evidence of seeking protection” (antedated, and typewritten ready for Lozada’s family to sign?).
Now, watch what Atienza is saying. Another liar of the incorrigible variety.
This is a brand of legalism that operates under this despicable govt., which is now shooting its own foot as it panics. This is “protection†with sinister motive to cover up bad tracks to make a stinky govt smell good.
Let’s also watch the next move. How will this Ombudsman (read: woman) handle the Lozada case?
In this fight against corruption and evil, there’s no way one defend evil. It’s the last call for a display of magnanimity (not magnanakaw).
cha on Sat, 16th Feb 2008 2:02 pm
fight, fight, fight!!!
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 5:12 am
c’mon people! you have to be blind or deaf not to be able to tell apart the liars from the person who’s telling the truth. mr. lozada so far has never changed his story while the goverment have changed theirs a few times already! no less than gen. razon already admitted that the lozada family did not request any security for mr. lozada on the day of his arrival. mr. atutubo made a “judgement call’! and non of the guys at naia knew mr. valeroso but they trusted mr. lozada’s security which they claim was under threat but of unknown source! that’s the worse excuse ever or they are just telling the truth that the govermnent are being run by the most incompetent people! from the top to bottom! but then again they are smarter than the rest of the filipino people who up to now still had done nothing! and still does nothing to change the course of our country! i think we really deserve what we get! and where we are right now as a nation!!! going nowhere. what economic growth are we talking about here??? poor are getting poorer. dollar exhange getting better? prices are still going up not down! it is time that we all wake up! we did it once during the marcos’ years and we can do it again this time and will do it again and again if the need arises because it our responsible as nation to be active and not just bystanders and wait for mana from heaven drop in front of us. we must help ourselves and gain respect from the whole world as a nation of people who is in charged of our destiny. and this will serve notice to the future leaders that we as people will not hesitate to get rid of anybody in power who abuses it! let us not get tired of going to streets if needed bacause we are fighting not just for the present but also for our future, our children who will one day rule this country! we need to teach them that it is not right to abuse power and violate human rights and if they do, we as a nation will not hesitate to remove them from the office! the soldiers, you must not listen to the politician to stay neutral, because you are not! gma is using you right now to stay in power. to be truly netural is let the people’s voice be heard and gather in streets to voice our demands for a change in goverment. but you are not neutral! you intimidate the people and claim you are defending the constitution but the fact is you are defending the worst violator of the constitution which is gma. the soldiers are never neutral. you are not robots. God gave you minds to decide right from wrong and use it! you are not stupid, although some are aguably are indeed stupid. how they got there is another argument. and my last point is to punish the violators, all of them!!! every single one of them because gma would not have been this brazen if she is not supported by those in position also. so let us just ask for re-election from top to bottom. get rid of those corrupt politicians!!! send all of them to jail! and serve them jail meals! and please my fellow filipino let choose the right leaders!!! know their past. let us not elect anybody resposible of our present misery included anybody from the marcos era! also, their should be special jail for mr. raul gonzales, miriam defensor, mike defensor, ermita, norberto gonzalez, bunye, garci and last but not the least mr.abalos! mr. lozada please stay strong!
istambay_sakalye on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 5:18 am
correction. miriam should not go to jail. she should got to the mental institution. she needs to be given some sort of medication! one that would shut her mouth completely! isolate her!!! maybe in her own little world she will be the smartest person. and she could forever argue that with herself. we have a term for that right?
BRENDA! she is a BRENDA!!!
Lessons of Truth « Planet Earl on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 12:45 pm
[...] VIEWS I ADMIRE MOST REGARDING THE ISSUE: http://www.rickycarandang.com/?p=126 http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1671 [...]
balian on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 3:14 pm
Geo,
I agree with you, it should be put on proper forum, Lozada should file charges, until now there is no evidence.
One thing i notice, actually first he refuse to testify on the Senate, he is part of the gang, he went to HongKong, upon his request to his superiors..
But as what i have read, from the back channels, somebody from his family was talking to Sen Lacson..
From my opinion, Lozada talk to much.. his predicament is a by product of him for being talkative, i read an article that this guy is good in social networking/ politicking…
I’m not proGMA, but who will replace GMA??? people are confused.. opposition .. has history of corruption also..
Don’t you guys noticed it.. who ever in Malacanang.. same story.. over an over again….
We need total change.. not just replacing GMA..
They just using lozada to kick GMA, same politicians… are there… same people….
justice league on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 10:50 pm
Balian,
You come as if you have a problem with the Vice President taking over or those next in line.
If PGMA should step down, that doesn’t necesary mean the rest stepped down as well.
Maybe the opposition has a problem with those in line of succession but I wonder as to your reasons.
Maybe your reasons are good so lets have them.
andrew on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 11:05 pm
it is an open secret that “kickbacks” “commisioning” is happening from the office of the president down to the barangay level, to the police, military, legislative & judiciary..it just varies on the gravity & who is involve..this has to stop now..it is very shameful to have this government officials running our country, getting the respect and vip treatment..the are like a tomb..well painted on the outside, but rotten on the inside..they will tell us that they are there because they want to serve the people and this country..oh common..let us stop fooling around..you want to be a government official simply because you have business, money & power interests..it obvious, you spend millions on campaign, get bad words from the peolpe when youre elected if your true color starts to show up..for what? for a salary of 15k to 60k per month?? oh common!!
lee on Mon, 18th Feb 2008 10:38 am
Yung burger (bar-Grrr) na pinagmamalaki ni Ben Abalajingjing sa Ben’s Diner gusto ko matikman.
This guy is seeking redemption after the “accidental” killing of his brother and neice. This is his opportunity, don’t lose it and tell everything.
ipokrita on Tue, 19th Feb 2008 1:47 am
andrew, nadale mo!
Louie on Tue, 19th Feb 2008 7:49 am
Since you are talking about chess. Watch Sen Lacson the king and his Queen Madrigal make the move. Follow the pattern using the art of war by Sun Tze, you will see a very close connection. Lacson learned and mastered the principle in PMA. And by the way the art of war was invented by a chinese for that matter. What a coincidence.
Now that Lozada is sacrifice for the next gambit, watch how the next witness will be move for an open end game.
enjoy
Citizen X on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 12:04 am
I think this country should be asking the bigger questions here. Regardless, of whether Jun Lozada is friend or foe, hero or villain, conspirator, or accomplice. One fact we can’t deny, is that he exposed yet another corruptive scheme of our amazing gov’t. Amazing coz the people in office have the stomach to take a blind eye & greedy pockets, on the deep turmoil our country has been experiencing ever since time immemorial.
We keep forgetting what history has taught us, and yet we are surrounded by it everyday. How many years were we enslaved by the Spaniards? How many years have the Americans been a part of our government’s decision making during the Marcos’ regime? To think we even needed their recognition for our OWN independence day! Don’t get me wrong, I love America, as a matter of fact, I’m 25% American, but I’m 100% loyal to my country the Philippines. And it’s a sad fact that our people have to find work elsewhere to support their families. We are servants in their countries, and when you come to think of it, we are still servants in our own. What people hold the business sectors in our country? Isn’t it the Chinese, or some other foreigner? Even for the small businesses, like the vendors et al. Who do they run to, to lend them money? The Indians! Why is that? Doesn’t it enrage you being a servant in your own country? And due to what? The highest forms of reptiles in our gov’t.
Sa totoo lang magmula ng maging tao ako, korupsyon na ang nakagisnan kong gobyerno. Nakakawindang na, grabe na talaga. Para bang normal na talaga ang korupsyun sa pang araw araw, na dapat nating tanggapin na may katumbas na pursyento na dapat ‘ilagay’ sa kung sinomang nakaupo na nangangasiwa sa proyekto o ng anumang ahensya ng gobyernong kelangan nating lapitan.
KAILAN BA MAGBABAGO ANG MGA LIDER NG BANSA NA HUMUHULMA SA GOBYERNONG NAG DEDESISYON SA PARAAN NG PAMUMUHAY NG BAWAT PILIPINO?
KAILAN MATITIGIL ANG KORUPSYON?
ITO BA ANG SINASABI NI RIZAL NA ANG MGA BATA ANG KINABUKASAN NG ATING BANSA, ANO ANG MAGIGING KINABUKASAN NILA, KUNG GANITO ANG GOBYERNO NATIN NGAYON?
I think we’ve had too many Edsa Revolutions, to prove that we have time and again, put in position a corrupt govt. What do we need to change? The people running the gov’t, or the kind of gov’t itself?
It’s a sad fact that a half breed (no insult intended) Filipino in the person of Mr. Jun Lozada had the guts to stand up to those bulging corrupt officials. To be questioned, to be ridiculed, to be terrorized day after day, and undergo this agonizing reality. Again, if he’s a fake, so what? Isn’t what he’s claiming, not true? Whether you take a 20% or a 50% commission isn’t the bigger question here, it’s the fact that this gov’t did! Can one say, “Oh I just stabbed him once, I didn’t shoot him, he just died 20% not 50%!†A crime is a crime people. Let’s keep our eyes on the ball!
So the bigger, and probably biggest question here is, what do we DO after this? Put another corrupt gov’t in office? Isn’t it commonsense, if something hasn’t been working for what 40 years more or less, then it won’t ever work? Let’s do steps to change. Does it really matter if we give up our democracy for a freer life? (Or is this still a democratic country at all?) Free from oppression, Free from poverty, Free from ignorance, and most of all, Free from a corrupt gov’t. What is democracy anyhow, if our children are becoming dumber and their stomachs are empty?
It took one man to stand up to the Spaniards, and his life to start a revolution to gain our independence. How many men will it take to reclaim our True Nation’s Freedom? Would it take a Ninoy Aquino, a Clarissa Ocampo, or a Jun Lozada to open our wide shut eyes to the whole truth and nothing but the damning truth? And when we find the truth, what are we willing to do about it?
Those who are trying to demean the witness’ (JUN Lozada) are using the oldest trick of a defense lawyer, to put down a man’s character so he won’t deem credible. Aside from the dramatics of all of this fiasco’, let us keep a watchful eye on the FACTS please, not the MAN. If anything, Jun Lozada may be that vessel of liberation we haven’t experienced since Pres. Ramon Magsaysay. Or does our freedom come in percentages too?
hellocamiguin on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 8:44 am
mlq3,
Jun Lozada is exposing corruption at the highest strata of our society. I salute his courage for getting out of the system. I hope many Jun Lozadas will follow.
However, let us not forget the corruption down to the lowest strata – vote buying in particular. It’s this corruption that put corrupt officials into power.
Through your widely followed blog, I hope this will initiate an awareness drive against “vote buying” not just in 2010 – but now!
Michael on Wed, 20th Feb 2008 10:27 pm
Kailangan pa ba nating mag debate para lang patunayan na nangungurakot ang mga Arroyos?
Kailnangan pa ba natin maging technical and legalist para makumbinsi ang mga sarili natin sa tunay na nangyayari sa bayan natin?
Sarswela man o grandstanding ang ginagawa ng mga senador, hindi ito unang pagkakataon at marahil marami pa rin tyo hindi alam.
Matatalino ang mga tao gumagawa sa atin ng kalapastangan ito. Huwag kayo umasa ng solidong ebidensiya para madiin sila at kung meron man umasa kayo gagawin nila lahat para mapabaliktad ang lahat.
Marami ng beses nangyari… Alam na nila kung paano…
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 12:39 am
sa mga nababasa ko dito ay nagtataka talaga ako na mayroon pa ring mga pilipino(kung pilipino nga ba talaga ang tawag sa kanila?), na nagpapanig sa mga arroyo at sa mga kasabwat! bulag o bingi ba kayo o nagbubulaglugan at nagbingibingihan lang. salot sa bayan ang corruption at katiwalian ng mga nasa pwesto. how neri! gising! bayan, gising! ginagago na tayo ng mga arroyo at mga cronies! at tayo naman ay parang gago rin na sunod sunoran na lang at naghihintay ng kidlat mula sa langit at di pa kumikilos!
wala talagang pag-asa ang pilipinas mga anak natin kung ganito na tayo! sobra na! tama na! sipain na ang mga tiwali sa gobyerno!
ipokrita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 4:13 am
You can shout and curse all you want but the fact is, nothing is ever going to change, not in our lifetime. If we want a better future for our kids, lets start by teaching them what is right from wrong and to stand up for what we believe by being an example to them. Let us be the best parents we can be, respect each other and be genuinely concern to other people para pagdating ng panahon na sila na ang namumuno sa ating bansa, ito ang nakatanim sa kanilang puso at isipan at hindi lamang ang kanilang sariling kapakanan. Madaling sumigaw ng sobra na, tama na, but at the end of the day, have you really done this country any good? How long until you go to the streets again and shout sobra na, tama na, gising bayan?
sunny ignes on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 5:09 am
ipokrita
AMEN
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 2:33 pm
ipokrita&sunny,
parang sinabi nyo na rin na nandyan na at wala na tayong magawa, sige na lang! ano ba klaseng halimbawa yan para sa ating mga kabataan ha? what have I done for this country? high school pa lang ako sa kapanahonan ni makoy nagvolunteer na ako sa namfrel…nakisali sa lansangan para mag-rally laban sa administrasyong marcos…naglahok sa mga forum sa pagpalayas sa mga base militar ng estados unidos…at iba pa…kayo ano nagawa nyo para sa bayan??? ano kalseng halimbawa ang pinapakita nyo sa mga kabataan??? hayaan ang katiwalian at magmahalan na lang tayong lahat??? kung ganyan nga talagang wala ng pag-asa ang ating bayan!!! buti nalang mayroon pang mga tao na di katulad nyo! AMEN!
indio on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:46 pm
Nagigimbal ako partikular sa “HYPCHORISY” nating lahat lalo pa ng simbahan (tumatanggap ng mga donsayon na galing sa jueteng at mga tax evaders), Makati elite (numero unong mina-maneobra yung batas at tax payments) at civil society (elitistang walang magawa sa oras nila). Hindi ako nagigimbal sa “TRUTH kuno” na ang basehan lamang naman ay speculation at perception. Hanggat di mapapatunayan, pawang CHISMIS/SABI-SABI/HEARSAY lamang lahat iyan. Nakahanap kasi ng jester ang urban elite at simbahan kaya kinatutuwaan yung star witness na magaling umarte at umiyak sa harapan ng kamera. Ang credibilidad ng isang taong nagsasalita ng katotohan ay masasabing kapani-paniwala kung may ebidensya siyang mailalahad tulad ng ginawa ni Clarissa de Ocampo. At di sa sentimyento de patatas.
Di ba dapat kung may sisihin sa moral decay, ang simbahan yung may kasalanan? Trabaho nila iyon, di ba?! Iyon ang papel nila sa society, spiritual and moral direction and guidance, di ba?! Hindi nila trabaho mamolitika at maghusga ng TRUTH dahil ang TRUTH ay di tulad ng FAITH na absolute! Ang FAITH pwede maniwala sa milagro samantala ang TRUTH dapat may kaakibat na matibay na ebidensya bago maging TRUTH. Hindi pwedeng “PERCEPTION OR SPECULATION” ang TRUTH.
Dapat ang simbahan tinuturuan ang mga mamayan na maging mahinahon, huwag maghusga ng walang kapapararakan at maging bukas ang isip at damdamin sa mga nangyayari ngayon at hindi naghahasik ng lagim! At udyokin ang taong bayan sa kadiliman!
Ang kalidad ng gobyerno ay repleksyon lamang ng kalidad ng kanyang society. Kung ubod ng kurakot, kasi ubod ng kurakot din ang mamayan niya. Ganun lang kasimple iyon. Tignan ninyo yung history natin bilang nasyon para malaman natin kung bakit tayo ganito hanggang ngayon.
Marahil matututo tayo igalang at respetuhin ang batas at institusyon kahit imperfect ang mga ito kung tayo kung tayo ay tunay na sibilisado na. Dapat hindi tayo lumihis o mawala sa objectivity at rationality kahit na gaano tayo sukang-suka at diring-diri sa gobyerno natin. Kung hindi, ANARCHY at civil war ang lagpak natin lahat.
istambay_sakalye on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 3:59 pm
GIMME A BREAK!
ipokrita on Thu, 21st Feb 2008 9:14 pm
Istambay, my point exactly. Has anything changed? You would not be be shouting now if what you’ve done in the past has worked. Ang pagiging isang magandang halimbawa ay hindi lamang maipapakita sa pamamagitan ng pagbuluntaryo sa namfrel at pagsigaw sa kalsada. Ang totoong magandang halimbawa ay maipapakita sa pamamagitan ng pagsasabuhay nito at sa pagsigurado na ikaw ay namumuhay ayon sa kung ano ang alam natin na tama. Halimbawa nalang na ikaw ay sumunod sa batas trapiko at hindi magbigay ng lagay sa mmda na humuli sayo. O di kaya ay pagtapon ng basura sa tamang lugar at hindi sa kong saan-saan lang, but then again, this may not be what you yourself would call a good example
sunny ignes on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:19 am
indio –
ang galing galing ng explanation mo. sana makapulot ng aral and maraming pilipino sa yo. uunlad tayo kung marami lang ang makaintindi ng pinaliwanag mo.
istambay –
hindi ko maalala kung ano ano ang nagawa ko sa pipilipinas directly. and alam ko lang na hangang ngayon ako ay sumusunod sa batas, namumuhay ng marangal kahit maliit lang ang kita at tumutulong sa kapwa kung kaya. higit sa lahat kagaya ng sinabi ni ipokrita tinuturuan ko ang aking mga anak ng tama.
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:20 am
ipokrits, sos! anong good example? ang hayaan na lang ang katiwalian sa gobyerno? mamuhay ng mapayapa? wala ba nangyari noong administrasyon ni makoy? namfrel palyed a big during the snap elections! maybe you should read your books! kung kagaya mo lng ang lahat na pilipino siguro si makoy pa rin ang nagpapatakbo ng bansa! mga kagaya nyo na ayaw kumilos para sa bayan ang dahilan na bakit wala patutunguhan ang ating bayan! good example is to do nothing? hay, if you read your history lahat na pagbabago nagsisimula sa kilos protesta at being pro-active.
kung wala kagaya ng mga bayani na sina bonifacio, rizal at lahat na mga bayani ano kaya tayo ngayon? may pilipinas kaya? pagtapon ng basura sa basurahan? you leave in a world of make believe! maybe you should live in disney world! wake up and smell the coffee!
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 12:26 am
sunny, hahahaha…nakakatawa ang sunny disposition mo sa buhay! cge you and ipokrits belong to same world…the disney world that is! “it’s a small world after all…it’s a small, small world” too bad hindi ganun ang totoong mundo! lets all get together and be happy being robbed blind by our so called leaders and tell our children that is the good example to follow. God helps those who help themselves!
sunny ignes on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 6:53 am
istambay,
pasensiya ka na, hindi ka makaintindi. pero sige magprotesta ka hangang gusto mo baka nga yan and solution sa problema ng bayang pilipinas. Anyway, this is only the Nth time protest movement has been done in our country against whomever is in the administration. mag volunteer ka sa lahat ng mga protest movements maybe it will hasten the change that we are all looking for. maybe this will work magic and suddenly everything in RP will be fine and dandy. just like what happened after February 1986. REMEMBER
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 7:14 am
sunny, sunny, ako pa nag di nakakaintindi!sus! ganyan talaga ang iba sa atin dyan! kesyo wala daw nangayayari sa mga kilos protesta ng mga taong kalye ay hayaan na lang natin ang mga kurakot sa gobyerno. pagod na pagod at wala na man nangyayari sa atin. cguro insulto yan sa mga taong nagmamalasakit sa bayan! young mga nagbuwis ng buhay nila alang alang sa buong bayan at sa mga tao na katulad nyo na gusto na lang maghintay ng biyaya mula sa langit habang ang iba ay nakikipaglaban ng walang pagod!
cguro nga, we do deserve nga ang mga nangyayari sa atin.
sunny ignes on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 8:39 am
istambay,
walang insultohan dito, totohanan yang sinasabi ko. kung ang approach mo ay protesta at yan ang sa tingin mo makakapagbigay daan sa pagbabago ay i encourage you to continue. hindi ko sinasabi na pabayaan ang mga nagnanakaw o mga kurakot sa gobyerno dapat silang sugpuin, bitayin, ibitin ng patiwarik,ipalunok sa kanila ang pera na ninakw nila in coins.
sana maintindihan mo na iba iba tayo ng pamamaraan, hindi ibig sabihin na naniniwala pa ako sa batas, passive ako at walang ginagawa para sa bayan. at laong hindi ako naghihintay ng biyaya. pero salamat sa paglait mo sa akin, magandang example ka nga.
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 9:26 am
sunny,sunny,sunny, paglait ba ang tawag dun? ang ikayat ang mga mamamayan para lumaban sa katiwalian laban sa bayan? isang tanong sa lahat na nagsusulat dito, mayron ba kayong alam na mga magulang na di nagturo ng tama sa mga anak nila? cguro lahat naman tayo dito tinuruan ng tamang asal, ugali at pinagsabihan na masama magnakaw at sundin ang mga batas. kahit na mga magulang nina gma, fg, ermita, neri et al. pinag-aral sa magandang paaralan, assumption, ateneo, up at iba pa.
pero ang pagturo ng tama sa mga bata at magiging anak nila ay hindi lamang hanggang doon. we also must lead by example. ano sa tingin mo ang iisipin ng bata kung ang makikita nila ay puro katiwalian ng mga so called leaders natin at tayo ay kontento na lang na walang ginagawa? hindi sapat ang turuan lamang ng basic etiquette and right manners ang mga bata. dapat ipakita din sa kanila na bilang myembro ng sosyodad ay may responsibilidad din silang ipagtanggol ang karapatan ng bawat tao. ipaglaban ang tama dahil kung di tayo kumilos lahat na tinuturo natin ay maging walang saysay.
magsalita kung tinatapakan na ang karapatan ng mga mamamayan. magpakita ng di pagsang-ayon sa mga katiwiliang ginagawa. paano malalaman na sumasakit na pala ang tiyan mo kung si ka magsalita. kahit ang aso ang nangangagat na kung inaapakan!
passive ka pala pero nagagalit ka rin pagnanasaktan na! ganyan nga lang, ano pa na ang dami ng namatay at ninanakaw. k pa rin sa yo? basat turuan lang ng tama ang mga anak natin ay maayos na ang problema ng bayan? kung di mo pa makuha ang aking punto at mag-insist ka pin na ang tamang approach sa surilanin ng bayan natin ay manitili sa bahay at turuan na lang tama ang mga anak natin dahil ang mga nagdaang sakripisyo na mga nakipaglaban ay walang narating sa tingin mo, ang masasabi ko lang God help us all filipino!
sunny ignes on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:07 am
istambay,
ang paghikayat na magprotesta ay hindi ko sinabing panlalait – sabi ko nga sa yo kung yan ang sa tingin mo ay tama karapatan mo yan. please do exercise your right.
ang sinasabi kung panglalait ay ang iyong mga lines.. i live in disneyworld…naghihintay ng biyaya..
hindi ko rin sinabi na PASSIVE ako, ang sabi ko hindi dahil sa hindi ako sumasama sa kilos protesta passive ako.
hindi ko rin sinabi na para malutas ang problema ng ating bayan – tayo ay manatili sa bahay. ang sinasabi ko para malutas ang problema ng bayan sisimulan ang pagtuturo ng tama sa ating mga anak – sa bahay. gets mo na?
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:49 am
sunny, bakit ngayon o sa nakaraan hindi ba tinturuan ng tama ang bata. tayo, di ba tayong lahat ay tinuruan ng tama ng mga magulang natin? sina gma, fg at mga taga gobyerno? sabi ko nga lahat naman na mga magulang tinuturuan ng tama ang mga anak nila. pero hindi yon sapat para sa ikabubuti ng ating bayan dahil responsibilidad din natin bilang mga magulang at mabuting mamamayan ang turuan ang mga bata na kasama tayo sa lipunan at may repsobilidad ang ipagtanggol ang mga karapatan laban sa mga katiwalian at huwag payagan abusuhin ng mga nasa pwesto ang kapangyarihan na dapat gamitan sa ikabubuti ng kalahatan. ang sinasabi mong turuan ang mga bata ng tama ay ginagawa ng lahat na mga magulang. mayroon lang talagang mga tao na kahit na anong pangaral ay gagawin pa rin ang mali. hindi na yan kasalanan ng magulang kayat respondibilidad natin bilang mamamayan na huwag payagan mnangyari ang nangyayari ngayon at kung kailangan ilang ulit na ulitin natin ang pagprotesta o pagsigaw sa langsangan para makamtam ang katarungan at hustisya ay dapat gawin! kahit bata ay dapat pagsabihan mo ng ilang beses bago ka sundin. ganyan din ang responsibilidad natin bilang myembro ng sosyodad. lahat tayo ay may pananagutan. mula pa sa kpanahonan ni kupong kupong lahat na magulang ay tama ang tinuturo sa mga anak nila. KULANG YON!
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 11:52 am
…at hindi ako lang o sila ang dapat makipaglaban para sa ikabubuti ng lipunan dahil para sa lahat ang ipinaglalaban! para lahat ni mamamayan bata man o matanda at sa mga anak ng mga anak at sa apo sa darating pang panahon! RESPONSIBILDAD NATIN LAHAT! HINDI PWEDE NA SILA LANG! KAILANGAN LAHAT TAYO! TAYO AT TAYO!
sunny ignes on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 2:47 pm
istambay,
pasensiya ka na, hindi ko na alam kung papano ko maipaintindi sa yo kung ano ang stand ko dito sa isyung ito. for your sake, kung protesta and tingin mong sagot sa problema ng bayan at yan at tanging yan lang ang alam mong solusyon eh di gawin mo. sabi ko nga sa yo karapatan mo yon, walang makakapigil sa yo.
meron akong nabasang biro na gusto kong i share sa yo and it goes like this… THE HUMAN BRAIN IS LIKE A PARACHUTE IT IS USELESS UNLESS IT IS OPEN…sana wag masyadong makitid and pag iisip para sa ikabubuti ng bayan.
DeadlyThreads on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 3:57 pm
Wear your indignation and protest in style!
DeadlyThreads sells “PROBINSYANG INTSIK LANG AKO EH”, “GLORIA CLEAN YOUR DIRTY CABINET” and other pro-Jun Lozada t-shirts!
http://deadlythreads.multiply.com/photos/album/1/Politically_Incorrect
istambay_sakalye on Fri, 22nd Feb 2008 5:28 pm
sunny,sunny,sunny….sana lahat na lang sunny ang disposition sa buhay para masaya na lang lahat kahit niloloko na! suko na ako. oo na makitid na ulo ko. maybe in need to see brain surgeon…open up my head a little bit…but then again it’s a small world after all. o gaya sa aladin theme song…i can show you the world…teka nga puro disney tunes pala lahat…am i in disneyland?
nah it’s still pinas pala.
people who don’t fight for their rights doesn’t deserve to get rights or freedom!
Louie on Sat, 23rd Feb 2008 10:55 pm
As Manny Quezon said study your history. Is Lozada the making of a Hitler in Germany? One who can incite the Church, the students and place doubt on the rule of government? Let us go back to history and learn from the past. Something is amiss in searching for truth. The benchmark to judge is lost and has become relative. Take time. Its in the very front of your eyes.
mainstream on Mon, 25th Feb 2008 11:17 pm
Some people don’t understand when they say “we want the truth, nothing but the truth”. Just like the mainstream issue in the country today, the NBN Scandal. People should know that if they seek for the truth, then you should not be one sided. If you believe that Jun Lozada is saying the truth, then therefore you have found the truth and the issue is closed for seeking for the truth. Then we could hear people still saying that “we want the truth”. Does this mean that they still doubt on the side that they believe in?
We should also understand that no government is perfect because no person is perfect. But this does not excuse those who breaks the law. What law are we following? It is the law of man and specifically the law of the country. It is not the law of the church or to any religions. If you kill someone are you breaking the law? Yes! If your thinking of killing somebody do you break the law? No! But yes for the church, it is a sin.
So what is the purpose of the church? It is to guide an individual to what is right or wrong. But it does not mean that any priests or bishops or cardinals and the like don’t get mistakes. You can point that to EDSA II, wherein some religious individuals had unleashed there support for President Arroyo. Then, we can see today that some religious individuals have to draw there support for the President. One clear example is the De La Salle Christian Brothers. So does this mean that priests, bishops, and the like does not make mistakes?
So if we really want to find the truth we must not chose any sides but rather we should be neutral to events, understand on what both sides says, and finally make our own judgment without a doubt to what side we think is true. So from there on, you should stop saying that “we want the truth nothing, but the truth”.
istambay_sakalye on Tue, 26th Feb 2008 7:03 am
the truth is already out there. even gma already admitted herself that she knew before the signing of zte-nbn contract that it was “flawed”! very reminiscent of “i’m sorry”, “hello garci”. there is no gray area anymore, the cat is out of the bag. the truth we’re looking for is in very front of our eyes the whole time! so now do we do with truth is the question.
martin on Sat, 1st Mar 2008 2:19 pm
It’s time that we as nation forgive each others fault and realize that we mortals have our own shortcomings and differences. To aggravate things our pa pogi politicians instead of focusing their attention in solving the problems like poverty alleviation wasted the chance by imploring to the excitement when they see these as an opportunity to gain political mileage. I say no matter how they try Kabayan Noli de Castro for sure will be the next President of the Republic of the Philippines not Lozada or anybody else for that matter. The survey of Pulse Asia and other reputable forecasting institutions points to that direction and a calculating politician like Kabayan is no match to the present crop of presidentiables. i am not a fan of Noli but that was how events presents us as it unfolds. The way I see this scandal its a win-win for gloria and noli. If they want Gloria to resign and Noli will take over he will of course do ala Gerald Ford pardon and story goes on and on…until another scandal sprouts again!
greg santillan on Fri, 7th Mar 2008 8:18 am
since the issue of the zte investigation is about graft and corruption in gov’t, i am interested to know what other anomalies jun lozada is privy in, if he really is for the truth, he should take this opportunity to divulge all he knows concerning irregularities/grafts/corruptions in the years working for or dealing with the goverment. we need to hold ALL government officials past or present accountable for their actions, otherwise corruption would just go on. we are concentrating to hard on catching the one big fish that we are letting go of a lot of the small fries which in the end would grow up and become giant fishes.
on another point, i’m so so dissapointed with corazon aquino, i was with edsa 1 and i used to consider her a hero, but now, she is but a worthless piece of shit, she did nothing during her presidency except play stage mother and play majong. and if arroyo is corrupt thru her husband, aquino was and is corrupt thru her brother. they’ve cheated the farmers of hacienda luisita and up to now, no justice has been given to all those massacred during the luisita demonstration