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	<title>Comments on: Welcome debate</title>
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	<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/</link>
	<description>Punditry. Politics. History. Commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Lester Cavestany</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-708681</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Cavestany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-708681</guid>
		<description>Dear cvj, Carl, Manila Bay Watch, Vic, Deviladvc8 and BrianB,

Thanks for enlightening me with your insights on the definition of &quot;the left&quot; and &quot;Leftists&quot; in the Philippines. As usual, answers lead to more questions. Maybe we need to be careful with how we use the label &quot;Leftist&quot; especially because we have different views about what it means in the local and global context.

I took the Political Compass test as recommended by cvj and I found out that there are two kinds of leftists: left-authoritarian and left-libertarians. Left-authoritarians are those who align themselves with socialist and communist forms of government and left-libertarian are obviously less authoritative. 

According to the test, I belong to the left-libertarian quadrant. So, I&#039;m a leftist too, but the libertarian type. I was also very happy to know that left-libertarians are in good company; we have Nelson Mandela, Mohandas Gandhi, and the Dalai Lama in our group :-) 

Mabuhay ang mga kaliwete hehe!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear cvj, Carl, Manila Bay Watch, Vic, Deviladvc8 and BrianB,</p>
<p>Thanks for enlightening me with your insights on the definition of &#8220;the left&#8221; and &#8220;Leftists&#8221; in the Philippines. As usual, answers lead to more questions. Maybe we need to be careful with how we use the label &#8220;Leftist&#8221; especially because we have different views about what it means in the local and global context.</p>
<p>I took the Political Compass test as recommended by cvj and I found out that there are two kinds of leftists: left-authoritarian and left-libertarians. Left-authoritarians are those who align themselves with socialist and communist forms of government and left-libertarian are obviously less authoritative. </p>
<p>According to the test, I belong to the left-libertarian quadrant. So, I&#8217;m a leftist too, but the libertarian type. I was also very happy to know that left-libertarians are in good company; we have Nelson Mandela, Mohandas Gandhi, and the Dalai Lama in our group <img src='http://www.quezon.ph/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Mabuhay ang mga kaliwete hehe!</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-701952</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-701952</guid>
		<description>Karlo, the PDSP belongs to the &lt;i&gt;Socialist International&lt;/i&gt;, an international umbrella organization of which Akbayan is a member as well.  To deny that they are Socialist because of their actions is to fall under the &lt;i&gt;No True Scotsman&lt;/i&gt; fallacy.  BTW, back in 2006, i sent an email to the Socialist International asking the PDSP to be censured for its leaderships&#039; complicity in the killings and disappearances but i got no response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karlo, the PDSP belongs to the <i>Socialist International</i>, an international umbrella organization of which Akbayan is a member as well.  To deny that they are Socialist because of their actions is to fall under the <i>No True Scotsman</i> fallacy.  BTW, back in 2006, i sent an email to the Socialist International asking the PDSP to be censured for its leaderships&#8217; complicity in the killings and disappearances but i got no response.</p>
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		<title>By: Karlo Mikhail</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-701307</link>
		<dc:creator>Karlo Mikhail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-701307</guid>
		<description>Ã¢â‚¬Å“Ã¢â‚¬Â¦nominally, Norberto Gonzalez and (Fr. Intengan) are Socialists of the Ã¢â‚¬ËœSocDemÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ varietyÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â

The operative word is nominal, hehehe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ã¢â‚¬Å“Ã¢â‚¬Â¦nominally, Norberto Gonzalez and (Fr. Intengan) are Socialists of the Ã¢â‚¬ËœSocDemÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ varietyÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â</p>
<p>The operative word is nominal, hehehe.</p>
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		<title>By: TonGuE-tWisTeD</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-700071</link>
		<dc:creator>TonGuE-tWisTeD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-700071</guid>
		<description>Benign0: &quot;&lt;i&gt;TheyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re a force NOW but what makes you think that they will be a force in the future? An entire generation of half-parented Pinoys is growing up because of the Ã¢â‚¬Å“heroismÃ¢â‚¬Â of these OFWs.&lt;/I&gt;&quot;

Like all living organisms, the homo sapiens philippinensis WILL evolve and survive at the very least, even at THAT condition. Survival begins with recognizing the threats, then learning to deal with them, until the menace ceases to be.

Look, half- or unparented Pinoys in the future may just be what we need after all. In your advocacy for cultural change, you have also been blaming our past for our mendicant dependency on the generosity of others. Physical separation from the providers could stimulate independence. Philosophical, spiritual, political, even financial independence. These, combined with the resiliency of the Pinoy, given his natural survival instinct, WILL promote change. 

That is out-of-the-box.(wink)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benign0: &#8220;<i>TheyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re a force NOW but what makes you think that they will be a force in the future? An entire generation of half-parented Pinoys is growing up because of the Ã¢â‚¬Å“heroismÃ¢â‚¬Â of these OFWs.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Like all living organisms, the homo sapiens philippinensis WILL evolve and survive at the very least, even at THAT condition. Survival begins with recognizing the threats, then learning to deal with them, until the menace ceases to be.</p>
<p>Look, half- or unparented Pinoys in the future may just be what we need after all. In your advocacy for cultural change, you have also been blaming our past for our mendicant dependency on the generosity of others. Physical separation from the providers could stimulate independence. Philosophical, spiritual, political, even financial independence. These, combined with the resiliency of the Pinoy, given his natural survival instinct, WILL promote change. </p>
<p>That is out-of-the-box.(wink)</p>
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		<title>By: TonGuE-tWisTeD</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-700012</link>
		<dc:creator>TonGuE-tWisTeD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-700012</guid>
		<description>Benign0: &quot;&lt;i&gt;You forget though that unlike the time of Rizal, todayÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s OFWÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s are composed mainly of semi-skilled and unskilled workers Ã¢â‚¬â€ valued more for their cheap muscle rather than for their moon-buggy designing brains and Miss L.A.-winning bodies.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Unskilled? Do you mean even nannying or &quot;DH-ing&quot; doesn&#039;t require any skill? And I thought English was a skill, too. And cheap no more. If you want cheap, go Chinese or Indian. My point is, the Solidarity movement began with just a few intellectual OFWs even while they were abroad. That could be you. And that will be the day - when a DJB-clone starts calling himself Benign0ist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benign0: &#8220;<i>You forget though that unlike the time of Rizal, todayÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s OFWÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s are composed mainly of semi-skilled and unskilled workers Ã¢â‚¬â€ valued more for their cheap muscle rather than for their moon-buggy designing brains and Miss L.A.-winning bodies.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Unskilled? Do you mean even nannying or &#8220;DH-ing&#8221; doesn&#8217;t require any skill? And I thought English was a skill, too. And cheap no more. If you want cheap, go Chinese or Indian. My point is, the Solidarity movement began with just a few intellectual OFWs even while they were abroad. That could be you. And that will be the day &#8211; when a DJB-clone starts calling himself Benign0ist.</p>
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		<title>By: PDubSpEditor</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-699890</link>
		<dc:creator>PDubSpEditor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-699890</guid>
		<description>@Rom

Thank you for clearing that up... I kinda went overboard with it, I guess, since I think I had the right reasons for joining it and making it grow in my seemingly apathetic campus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rom</p>
<p>Thank you for clearing that up&#8230; I kinda went overboard with it, I guess, since I think I had the right reasons for joining it and making it grow in my seemingly apathetic campus.</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-699165</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-699165</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You say it is a belief. But you seem to shy away from categorically asserting whether you think this belief to be true or false. - Benign0&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have written about the flaws in the elitist mindset in my blog:

www.cvjugo.blogspot.com/2007/05/philippine-society-and-elitist-mindset.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You say it is a belief. But you seem to shy away from categorically asserting whether you think this belief to be true or false. &#8211; Benign0</p></blockquote>
<p>I have written about the flaws in the elitist mindset in my blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cvjugo.blogspot.com/2007/05/philippine-society-and-elitist-mindset.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cvjugo.blogspot.com/2007/05/philippine-society-and-elitist-mindset.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: benign0</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-699136</link>
		<dc:creator>benign0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-699136</guid>
		<description>&quot;That belief is at the core of the Elitist mindset which is shared by many in the Middle and Upper class and explains their nonchalance towards electoral fraud.&quot;

You say it is a belief. But you seem to shy away from categorically asserting whether you think this belief to be true or false.

What say you? ;)

It seems that the crux of your argument against (or is it FOR -- even THAT is unclear) my assertion is that said belief is &quot;shared by many in the Middle and Upper class&quot; from which you derive the conclusion that this is the source of &quot;nonchalance towards electoral fraud&quot;. Pretty slick play with words. Fortunately for you not too many people can readily pick up the utter lack of substance of what you wrote there. You should be in politics. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That belief is at the core of the Elitist mindset which is shared by many in the Middle and Upper class and explains their nonchalance towards electoral fraud.&#8221;</p>
<p>You say it is a belief. But you seem to shy away from categorically asserting whether you think this belief to be true or false.</p>
<p>What say you? <img src='http://www.quezon.ph/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It seems that the crux of your argument against (or is it FOR &#8212; even THAT is unclear) my assertion is that said belief is &#8220;shared by many in the Middle and Upper class&#8221; from which you derive the conclusion that this is the source of &#8220;nonchalance towards electoral fraud&#8221;. Pretty slick play with words. Fortunately for you not too many people can readily pick up the utter lack of substance of what you wrote there. You should be in politics. <img src='http://www.quezon.ph/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-699039</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-699039</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Whether elections are fair or rigged does not seem to matter in a society of foolish consituents. - Benign0&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That belief is at the core of the Elitist mindset which is shared by many in the Middle and Upper class and explains their nonchalance towards electoral fraud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Whether elections are fair or rigged does not seem to matter in a society of foolish consituents. &#8211; Benign0</p></blockquote>
<p>That belief is at the core of the Elitist mindset which is shared by many in the Middle and Upper class and explains their nonchalance towards electoral fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: benign0</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2008/01/22/welcome-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-698987</link>
		<dc:creator>benign0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1653#comment-698987</guid>
		<description>&quot;Just like in the days of Rizal, the revolution was started by OFWs - in Barcelona and Madrid. Physical presence was not a requisite to begin change two centuries ago, definitely not in the global present.&quot;

You forget though that unlike the time of Rizal, today&#039;s OFW&#039;s are composed mainly of semi-skilled and unskilled workers -- valued more for their cheap muscle rather than for their moon-buggy designing brains and Miss L.A.-winning bodies.

So expecting some kind of collective epiphany out of these OFWs that might usher the Philippines into some kind of imagined new era of prosperity is quite a leap of imagination.

And besides, don&#039;t you think we&#039;ve already had one &quot;revolution&quot; too many?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Just like in the days of Rizal, the revolution was started by OFWs &#8211; in Barcelona and Madrid. Physical presence was not a requisite to begin change two centuries ago, definitely not in the global present.&#8221;</p>
<p>You forget though that unlike the time of Rizal, today&#8217;s OFW&#8217;s are composed mainly of semi-skilled and unskilled workers &#8212; valued more for their cheap muscle rather than for their moon-buggy designing brains and Miss L.A.-winning bodies.</p>
<p>So expecting some kind of collective epiphany out of these OFWs that might usher the Philippines into some kind of imagined new era of prosperity is quite a leap of imagination.</p>
<p>And besides, don&#8217;t you think we&#8217;ve already had one &#8220;revolution&#8221; too many?</p>
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