Seven year itch
January 18, 2008 by mlq3
Filed under Events Mode
In “Closer Than Brothers: Manhood at the Philippine Military Academy” (Alfred W. McCoy) there’s a riveting section on the battle of wills and wits between Ferdinand Marcos and the rebels holed up in Camp Aguinaldo. One big problem was that Marcos was very ill, and McCoy quotes one aid who witnessed Marcos creeping from room to room, brain befuddled by disease and medicines, his situation not helped by General Fabian Ver’s seeming incapacity to undertake genuine generalship. Every time the Marcos government was poised to seize the upper hand, the Palace or the prime movers and shakers in the shaky government would issue contradictory orders, or delay, and delay, and delay…
So it’s not that Marcos was concerned with the well-being of his countrymen, but rather, he delayed too long (Fabian Ver had wanted the massacre to take place as soon as possible; Marcos said no, on TV; to this day, even some of his critics give him credit for doing so); and so, when he ordered the people gathered at Edsa massacred, the momentum had shifted to the rebels.
No one has seriously tackled what condition Joseph Ejercito Estrada was in, during the crucial days and hours his government lost the momentum and crumbled. Looking back, it happened quickly. Prior to the point Angelo Reyes convinced the military’s top brass to, as he put it, engage in mutiny, the advantage, in terms of legitimacy and brute force, lay with Estrada. Even when the defections began to gather pace, he knew, somehow, that his greatest ally was time. Up to the morning of the day he fell from power, it seemed quite possible he could counter-attack by summoning reinforcements from the provinces.
In retrospect, Ferdinand Marcos and Joseph Ejercito Estrada knew what had to be done, but were incapable of summoning the iron-clad resolve to do what needed to be done; they hesitated when their enemies, normally more cautious than they, had themselves thrown caution to the winds.
Could it be that even the most self-confident leaders have an innate sense of when their time is up? Recently, Sylvia Mayuga reviewed the latest volume of memoirs by Carmen Guerrero Nakpil. Her review tackles an important question -when comes the time for those on opposite sides in a great divide, to reconcile and understand?- but let me lift, from her review, an interesting vignette. This is Nakpil, by way of Mayuga, recalling asking Madame Marcos if she’d watched the funeral of Ninoy Aquino:
I asked her whether she and the President had watched Ninoy’s funeral on TV, and she said, yes, they’d done so, together, in his bedroom. And that they’d been crushed, struck dumb by the enormity of what they were seeing on the video screen. She added that they had felt overwhelmingly humiliated because they had little inkling of the public mood, and that Marcos had said, ‘So, after all these years, all our efforts, our trying and striving, it has come to this?’
…Ninoy did not die that day on that sunny, Sunday afternoon in August 1983, at the Manila International Airport, for that was when he began to live forever in the hearts of his countrymen. It was Ferdinand Marcos who died that day, and he knew it.
That psychic body blow for Marcos, surely it sapped his will to fight for his political life? And Estrada, who’d managed a huge crowd at the Luneta after the first protests began, who’d managed the biggest plurality since 1992, perhaps it was a psychic body blow, too, to see all those kids banging pots and pans along Katipunan…
In contrast, both Marcos’s and Estrada’s successors immediately took to heart, a political reality underlined by Marcos’s departure and that of Estrada: possession is 9/10ths of the law. Who knows if, allowed to go to the Ilocos, Marcos could have actually waged a civil war with his command bunker in Sarrat; and there is the “what if?” if Estrada, after leaving the Palace by barge, had holed up in Makati and dared those rallying at Edsa to engage in urban street fighting there, or even in the crowded streets of San Juan -or anywhere else.
Cory Aquino faced down coup attempts by holing up in the Palace’s Guest House and her Arlegui residence (who can forget Fidel Ramos’s wanting, at one point, to drop napalm on White Plains? Or to be precise, as I heard it anyway, asking the Americans to napalm White Plains); President Arroyo’s done the same. Neither were befuddled by disease or drink during those crisis times, both seemed more willing to take extreme measures. Pragmatically speaking, if self-defense is the most basic right, then everything the President’s done to defend her office has been correct.
In fact the problem seems to be that the fall of Marcos and Estrada did to people power what the same events did to the media: make the participants so cocksure that faced with what they should have expected all along, no one had the will to deal with the challenges creatively, and sensibly. Because of the blunders of beleaguered leaders, Edsa 1 and Dos succeeded when they could easily have been crushed. The media, because of the circumstances surrounding the media’s reawakening after Ninoy’s murder, has gotten used to having a privileged place in our politics that depended not so much on the law, but on the toleration and fear of those in power. Confronted by leaders with no qualms about respecting informal parameters on political behavior, the public and the media found themselves facing the full might of the state.
This point is explained thoroughly by Writer’s Block, taking a cue from Hegel::
A revolution succeeds only with an implicit acquiescence of the State, at least at its outset. If Czar Nicholas had the same tyrannical character as his predecessor Ivan III, dubbed The Terrible, not only would the Bolsheviks have not won, but liberty would be almost inexistent. And if Ramon Blanco, the Governor-General of the Philippines acted swiftly and surgically when the revolution erupted, as did his successor Camilo Polavieja, then history would have been written differently, and Bonifacio would have merely graced the list of leaders of failed rebellions.
The masses do not have power in revolutionary movements. They are oftentimes led by the middle class or even the aristocracy (who parrot the ideologies in fashion without really comprehending it). The masses rallied to the French Revolution, but it was the intellectuals, hailing primarily from the lower middle class or bourgeoisie, who led them against the aristocracy, the Church and the King. The middle class intellectuals are the ones who have both the time and the energy to divest in the ideologies of liberty and rights of men. There are but few exceptions to this, and there the revolution succeeded only because the State was significantly weak in the first place (the Chinese Revolution, in fact, could be better classified as a “civil warâ€).
In the case of the political class, Edsa I, the product of a unique set of circumstances, turned into a blueprint for political action. Many of those veterans tried to apply that blueprint during Edsa Dos (and even Edsa Tres, and after 2005). Except the President, or perhaps more precisely, her husband, had come up with a mutation that guaranteed success, not least because it was successfully camouflaged by the trappings of traditional People Power. She came to recognize something quite early on, a point raised by Writer’s block: revolts thrive when given the space by the powers-that-be, to grow and flourish.
A view I’ve been developing is that in a society where the transmission of culture has broken down, rhetorical appeals lose their effectivity; they cannot mobilize people or even if they do, the mobilization loses focus and the firmness of purpose that comes from a shared appreciation of the words that mobilized the people; the glue loses its stickiness, movements become unstuck. Edsa Dos was built, in large part, on nostalgia for Edsa; but since those who’d taken part in Edsa had neglected transmitting to younger generations The Road to Edsa I, younger people at Edsa Dos lacked staying power (and there’s the possibility, which of course those in question will dispute, that their attention spans are just so much shorter, for anything at all). Which is why instead of keeping at the grindstone, people at Edsa Dos have retreated to a state of disillusionment and moving on to the departure lounge (also, the changing nature of work: a gainfully-employed middle class youth in the Call Center industry cannot, even if he or she wanted to, engage in political advocacy).
I’ll put it this way: superficially, the recipe for People Power seems to be: unpopular president + explosive revelations + economic downturn + angry prelates + an appeal to past greatness, based on shared values + get enough people on the streets + officer corps defects = regime change. The last factor, the top brass, taking its cue from the presence of all the previous ingredients. But as Tiananmen Square proved, the antidote to People Power is very simple: the application of force. Ruthlessly. Actually, an earlier example would be how People Power in Romania ended up in a civil war situation. Edsa Tres gave us a taste of what such a situation would be like, and people have instinctively shrunk from that possibility ever since.
Another complication is how unprepared our society is, to recognize the Left as part of the body politic. A tacit agreement seems to have been reached with the Left, during Edsa Dos, where the Left worked more or less discreetly with the other players (for example, during the “sleepy” periods during those protest days, the Left ensured there would be people at Edsa in the morning and lunchtime). The Left thus managed to make up for missing the bus during Edsa in 1986 (much as their revisionism denies that, of course). Since 2001, however, the Left has found itself unable to really find a place for itself in legitimate politics. From 2005, in particular, while committed and disciplined, the Left had to contend with the usual problems of its dogmatism alienating other political players, and its cause proving itself less than attractive to the broader public (for many reasons: ideological, and also, their past alliances).
But you can’t have it both ways. Either the Left must be embraced as part of the body politic, or the alternative is the tactic pursued by the administration: all-out persecution or war. If liquidating the Left is wrong, then there is no half-way measure: they must be embraced as a force like any other, entitled to participate like any other. But our society seems unprepared for this, and the best it can offer is tokenism.
As for me, I think that Edsa Dos can no longer be separated from Edsa Tres, they are indivisible. A common thread in my articles on Edsa Dos and Edsa Tres was this ditty:
Gloria, Gloria labandera!
Gloria, Gloria labandera!
Gloria, Gloria labandera!
Labandera si Gloria!
Which I first heard sung minutes after the President took her oath at the Edsa Shrine; it was, of course, the theme song of Edsa Tres though oddly enough, little heard since.
My account of Edsa Dos can be found in Six years since (now, seven years since!). It’s best not to embroider recollections, so my article published soon after Edsa Dos is there, recounting my experiences, as well as the debates that ensued and my thoughts several years on. For more recent thoughts on Edsa Dos, see Half a People Power, an attempt at a synthesis.
As for Edsa Tres, there’s my piece, The May Day Rebellion, also written days after the events took place. This comment, in CJV’s blog, by Torn & Frayed, is very interesting to me, because it only shows the limitations of eyewitness accounts and experiences: we had diametrically opposite thoughts and experiences when it came to Edsa Tres.
Anyway, check out Bloggers Remember People Power 2. See also Recovery Room on Edsa, and Misteryosa and Life in Random and Color Me Bleue (who was in the march that I wrote about) on Edsa Dos. While goodbye blue monday participated in it, vicariously.
Addendum:
In Airbrushing the Left out of Edsa 2 and the body politic, Tonyo Cruz takes exception to this blog entry. I hope he’ll re-read both the entry, and what I wrote at the time: I saw what took place in Mendiola and the central role Bayan Muna played in taking the protests to the gates of the Palace.
As for the particular portion he took exception to, this is what Teddy Casino wrote (View from the Street: Different Strokes for Different Folks (in Doronila, Amando. Between Fires: Fifteen Perspectives on the Estrada Crisis. Philippines: Anvil Publishing, Inc. & Philippine Daily Inquirer, Inc., 2001), pp. 259-260:
Around 4 a.m., January 17, the first among several meetings among the major formations at EDSA was held at the Linden Suites in the Ortigas Center. Among those present were me and Carol Pagaduan-Araullo of Bayan and Estrada Resign Movement, Paul Dominguez, Sen. Alberto Romulo and retired generals Lisandro Abadia and Renato de Villa of the United Opposition, Dan Songco and Francis Pangilinan of Kompil II, Satur Ocampo, Nathaniel Santiago and Vicente Ladlad of Bayan Muna; Joey Lina and Gary Cayton of the Kangkong Brigade; and Triccie and Louie Sison of Couples for Christ.
We identified the requirements for getting as many people as possible to mass on EDSA and mapped out out immediate tasks. Bayan was tasked to bring in the warm bodies, which would come from its organized forces in the youth and student sector, and workers and urban poor communities in Metro Manila…
From an angry and worked-up throng of 30,000 on the night of January 16, the crowd at EDSA had dwindled to around 2,000 by early morning. Most of those who stayed were from the organized groups…
The first morning, the speakers included, among others, a balut vendor, a grandmother, and a seaman who had just returned from abroad. A constant irritation among the various groups at EDSA was the handling of the 24-hour program. The first two days saw Baranay RJ handling the morning program, Bayan and the ERM (Estrada Resign Movement) the afternoon program, and the Kangkong Brigade and Kompil II the evening program.
When complaints of favoritism and the dominance of politicians on the stage arose, the coordinating group decided to form a committee composed of Bayan, Kompil II and the Kangkong Brigade to handle the program. The committee tried to strike a healthy balance between sectoral leaders and politicians on the program…
By lunchtime each day, students from the various schools would start to arrive in numbers. So would members of the various labor unions, urban poor communities and other sectors… By the afternoon of January 19… crowd estimates were as high as 300,000.
As for taking exception to the term “dogmatism,” well, Q.E.D. But seriously, what Tonyo forgets is that the Left may be, to his mind, Bayan Muna and allied groups, but to others the Left includes a broader spectrum which includes the NDF and Bayan Muna but other groups, too: much as, perhaps, some do not consider other such groups part of the Left. For example, no mention of Akbayan could be construed as whitewashing. But this is an unproductive avenue to pursue (covered at length in this entry and this one over at Reds Care).
In the same essay (p.256-257), Teddy Casino recalled the difficulties due to schisms within the Left, and those groups that had allied, in turn, with non-Leftist groups:
Those in activist circles know the longstanding struggle between the “socdems” (social democrats) and the “natdems” (national democrats), which stretches as far back as the First Quarter Storm of 1970. The last time that there was any formal coordination or joint actions between the ND’s and SD’s was in the mid-90s, before the breakup of the ND bloc into the “reaffirmists” and the “rejectionists,” which the SD’s chose to ally themselves with those who had bolted from Bayan.
Near the end of his essay, Casino points to the intra-Left hard feelings that linger:
At the last minute, Msgr. Socrates Villegas appealed to the crowd not to leave EDSA… Curiously, a Sanlakas spokesperson appeared on national TV prodding the people to “preserve the gains of EDSA” by not joining the march.
In another essay in the book, “People Power 2: A Business Perspective,” Guillerno Luz recounted,
It was the relationship with Bayan and Sanlakas that proved the most unusual for the business community. Even before the crisis, I had already met with Teddy Casino, Carol Araullo, and Nathaniel Santiago of Bayan…
Certainly, Bayan broadened my perspective. Joining its rallies in Makati and Mendiola gave me a first hand appreciation of the extent of its network and its mobilization tactics, of the passion with which it pursued its vision, and its high sense discipline when massed in large numbers…
…With persistence and a little luck, we were able to organize a meeting among the TUCP, APL, LSM, Bayan, Sanlakas, Kompil, United Opposition, Copa, Kangkong Brigade, and business groups one Saturday in November. Working out between Bayan and Kompil/LSM such details as the timing of the marches… did not prove that difficult. What did was reconciling the positions of Sanlakas and the business group…
..since the idea was to demonstrate solidarity between labor and business, it was important to have all labor groups present at the Makati rally. We stressed that business would not want to appear endorsing one union at the expense of others. But Sanlakas refused to fly its flag alongside those of other unions, in particular KMU. We were told only the local or company unions could appear alongside competitor unions…
The brief points, then are: no one is airbrushing the Left out of the picture: but not everyone will agree that the Left consists solely of the NDF or Bayan Muna, or KMU, etc. Bayan Muna, for one, tried its best to be a team player, coordinating actions, programs, and conferring with other groups on logistical issues: they held the fort, including mounting the program, mid-morning to late afternoons.
Technorati Tags: Edsa, Marcos, military, people power, philippines, politics, president, society
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cvj on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 12:16 pm
Manolo, thanks for the link! I’d like to repeat what i said in that entry:
I believe that EDSA Dos as a revolution has been defeated because it has experienced more than its share of betrayals. The worst of these to my mind, is not GMA’s pardon of Erap, which to me is just a coup de grace. To me, the worst betrayal was by the participants themselves who chose expediency over the ideals of EDSA Dos when they choose not to hold Gloria accountable for electoral fraud because, in their view, she was the ‘lesser evil‘.
cvj on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 12:31 pm
Fascinating thesis by Anti-thesis i.e. the distinction between revolution and civil war.
mlq3 on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 12:46 pm
agree 100% cjv.
ramrod on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 1:07 pm
We need to make sure the “sanctity of the ballot” is protected because when used properly it is the great equalizer. Then once and for all rally behind leaders who are truly chosen by the people. So it comes to mind that for 2010, the critical decisions will start with the new COMELEC chairman and AFP chief of staff. The former to make sure of honest elections, the latter to guard the ballot (and not to tamper with it).
Let everyone have a voice, even the left. As it is said in Desiderata “listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, they too have their story.”
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 1:19 pm
for the simple reason that they don’t want to appear moronic having sanctified her. a form of self-denial.
bleue on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 2:24 pm
I was there. I was in EDSA seven years ago. I went there alone. I fought there with my own battle and I won, we won! But seven years after, it seems to me that our country turned from bad to worst. Philippine politics is now a one big circus, and I have this personal feeling that all my EDSA DOS sacrifices were just wasted. My appetite for joining political rallies has been spoiled and now lost. I don’t know if I will go back and shout in EDSA again thesedays. My voice is too precious to waste for them.
ramrod on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 2:27 pm
Scenes from THE BEST COUP PLOT EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh9bECSgfqk
Jon Mariano on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 4:24 pm
Bleue’s sentiment is; I belive, shared by many and one big reason why protests against Gloria don’t and can’t gather enough support.
tonio on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 4:40 pm
I was there too. I was one of the first people (along with my friend Janice, who I haven’t seen since then) in the middle of the intersection of paseo and ayala when the text brigade erupted. I remember calling my (now ex-) wife and telling her, “I’m doing this for our daughter, I want her to grow up in a better place.”
I walked from boni to the EDSA shrine and listened to the rhetoric. I mostly sat though, or chatted up some of the people around.
We were all so hopeful then.
Mind you early on i had my reservations about the Vice-President. There was something just so “off” about her. Sure, she was the daughter of a president, and she was an economist… we were thinking lesser evil back then, and I’d be damned if I was going to leave the country to Erap and his dancing fools.
Well I don’t know where all of that is now. Whenever there are commemorations like this, all that’s left is a sick feeling in the pit of my gut.
The feeling of “being had”.
Never again.
Beancurd on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 4:40 pm
ramrod,
the ballot as the great equalizer? it is only as good as the choices/candidates you are given. is there anything great about those choices?
Political Jaywalker on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 4:41 pm
Indeed, people has to recognize and realize that the past edsa 1 & 2 experience has never been and never will be a revolution because it was easily corrupted by the minority ruling elites of the big vested interest. The people were used as unwitting tools and pawns in a power grab of corrupt leaders against those equally corrupt in power in a convoluted musical game of thievery if not plunder.
migelle on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 4:42 pm
With all the mumbled words spoken because of each tumbled governance of the past administrations, people seemed unsatisfied maybe because they all have different reasons, wants and needs. I’m still holding to my faith and still hoping that(we)all the Filipino shall meet and be merry because we have been alleviated from one of the things that we have been suffering. Even in just a little percentage of our burdens regarding our grave sentiments we should all help one another for once for a good cause such as:
Power Sector Reform Blog
Bukidnon Rep. Teofisto “TG” Guingona III has formally launched his power sector reform blog. Entitled NAKUPO (http://www.nakupo-nakupo.blogspot.com/), the blog seeks to be the internet site for Rep. Guingona’s advocacy to bring down electricity rates. His major advocacy includes the Privatization of the National Power Corporation (NAPOCOR) and the full implementation of the EPIRA law.
In his previous policy adovacy statements, he sees the NAPOCOR as a mafia controlling the price of electricity by having a virtual monopoly on power generation.
The blog includes newspaper articles quoting Rep. Guingona’s statements. It also includes transcripts of radio interviews he made in the course of his advocacy. Also available are the two major privilege speeches he made on corruption and questionable dealings of NAPOCOR and that of the Power Sector Assets and Liabilities Management Corporation or PSALM, the agency tasked to privatize NAPOCOR’s assets.
It is envisioned that with the blog, Rep. Guingona would reach more online citizens, including the private sector and civil society groups with the same concern for lowering of electricity rates.
The blog will also be Rep. Guingona’s way of building bridge with the more powerful consumer rights blogs which could provide pressure to national government officials to seek meaningful reforms in the power sector.
*** Got this from a responsible citizen and I’m posting this for all the Filipino people. This is a call for awareness about Rep. Guingona’s advocacy to bring down electricity rates which I know would be a great help for all of us. Visit the site, support the advocacy, and be a responsible citizen. Thankies!
Beancurd on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 4:44 pm
bleue,
did you really win? did you really cause estrada to leave malacanang? did you seize such victory? or did someone else tell you, we have already a new president and you need not march to malacanang anymore? and did not that “someone” dictate matters ever since?
cvj on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 5:04 pm
I’m not saying this applies to all, but the feeling of ‘being had‘ as a reason for tuning out is a little bit too convenient. If it was a ‘President’ FPJ or ‘President’ Noli de Castro who was caught red handed talking to Garci, there will have been lesser problem mobilizing the EDSA Dos crowd. Instead, what we get from otherwise decent folks are rationalizations and as a result, we’re stuck in this low intensity civil war (or its prelude).
bleue on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 5:21 pm
@Beancurd
Personally the moment estrada left the palace, that was my feeeling, even until now. As I said before, it was my personal battle, during those times. I went there without company, with my own agenda, which happened to be the same agenda of the others who were there. Yes there was this “someone” who told me to do it – my conscience.
Today is a different battle, but I opt not to participate. Why? Because it is so hard to identify thesedays the evils and the lesser evils, but the bottom is – they all are.
bleue on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 5:22 pm
@Beancurd
Personally the moment estrada left the palace, that was my feeeling, even until now. As I said before, it was my personal battle, during those times. I went there without company, with my own agenda, which happened to be the same agenda of the others who were there. Yes there was this “someone” who told me to do it – my conscience.
Today is a different battle, but I opt not to participate. Why? Because it is so hard to identify thesedays the evils and the lesser evils, but the bottom is – they all are.
@MLQ thanks for linking my EDSA DOS entry
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 5:33 pm
Seems like what this administration is telling the people is we will not give it up peacefully. They have closed the door to peaceful people power and are leaving the door to civil war wide open.
bleue on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 5:44 pm
About “EDSA Tres”, I really don’t know why they called it that way. Hmmmm, I pity EDSA for being overly used.
BrianB on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 6:50 pm
I disagree on the basis that people should stop redefining words and events. Redefine within context, by any means. redefine with new knowledge.
Revolution: winning entire
Civil war: schism, splitting into sides
It’s wrong to say the government has to implicitly allow it. Misguides the public. Makes them… well, Filipinos (you know our obsession of having the culprit, criminal, corrupt admit their wrongdoing even when the evidence more than suffices?)
BrianB on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 6:54 pm
@migelle
That’s why people have to think “politically.” Not think like “politicians” but think with a political purpose and a political sense. Of course, every individual has wants and needs.
BrianB on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 7:05 pm
@Antithesis
manolo, this is Karl Marx, not Hegel. antithesis follows thesis, according to Hegel, they do not coexist on the same plane. In Marx, they clash.
Anyway, I disagree with Writer’s Block’s analysis. He is forgetting that Filipino leaders have a glass ceiling, e.g they can never do what America and the world will not tolerate.
An EDSA I massacre would have been way over Marcos’s head. He’d have to deal with pressure internally and the much more potent pressure externally from the international community. The Philippines was even less dependent to the U.S. and the international community than it is today.
cvj on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 7:25 pm
Thanks for the explanation. So far, i haven’t understood what Marxists mean when they say that ‘Marx stood Hegel on his head‘. My impression is that in Marxist thought, there’s a lot of such inversions going around, although i do not yet comprehend what that means.
Making new distinctions (and getting rid of old ones) is part of how society reproduces itself. On revolution vs. civil war, i’m reminded of John Quincey Adam’s (played by Anthony Hopkins) closing argument in the movie Amistad:
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 8:32 pm
“It was Ferdinand Marcos who died that day, and he knew it.”
Ms Mayuga is right. Marcos was a clever strategist and a brillant tactician — easy to imagine that on the day Aguino was gunned down, his brain, no matter if it was heavily medicated was still churning, force of habit as one might say, telling itself it was the beginning of the end of an era, his era.
rego on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 9:40 pm
“To me, the worst betrayal was by the participants themselves who chose expediency over the ideals of EDSA Dos when they choose not to hold Gloria accountable for electoral fraud because, in their view, she was the ‘lesser evil‘.”
I totally disagree! To me EDSA 2 is EDSA 2! Electoral fraud is a entirely a different matter that shoudl be settled in other venue than EDSA!
UP n student on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 10:15 pm
I partially agree with ManuelB: “Seems like what this administration is telling the people is we will not give it up peacefully. They have closed the door to peaceful people power…”. GMA has already demonstrated that she will not be rattled by five or ten thousand marching the streets of metro-Manila. GMA’s published intent is to stay until 2010 and she leaves the anti-GMA only one option — IMPEACHMENT via the articles of the Constitution. She leaves the onus of wholesale damage to the Philippines to the Opposition if the Opposition chooses to risk civil war.
john marzan on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 10:25 pm
“who’d managed the biggest plurality since 1992,”
hahaha…
supremo on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 10:32 pm
I forgive all the EDSA Dos characters here who have shown some remorse. You’ve been had. I hope you learned your lesson.
supremo on Fri, 18th Jan 2008 11:40 pm
‘About “EDSA Tresâ€, I really don’t know why they called it that way. Hmmmm, I pity EDSA for being overly used.’
It can also be…
‘About “EDSA Dosâ€, I really don’t know why they called it that way. Hmmmm, I pity EDSA for being overly used.’
ramrod on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 12:40 am
The EDSA formula may not be effective anymore, its gotten overused already, every element studied in detail, even the timings, by none other than those who executed the PERFECT COUP – Gloria and cohorts. So every move is anticipated and pre-empted, choke points are there to prevent formation of a critical mass, and the most paralyzing of all – THE INTERNET, most are secure in their ANONYMITY and protest to their hearts’ content.
While some are content to do nothing, secure in the safety of distance and take potshots at those who are trying to do something. Somebody once told me, never be indecisive, its a mark of weak leadership, make a good or bad one, at least make a decision.
ramrod on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 12:42 am
anthony scalia on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 12:47 am
cvj,
“To me, the worst betrayal was by the participants themselves who chose expediency over the ideals of EDSA Dos when they choose not to hold Gloria accountable for electoral fraud because, in their view, she was the ‘lesser evil‘.”
thats not betrayal, its the exercise of freedom of choice.
why are you insisting your viewpoint on them? they’ve made their choice, just as you made yours. they opted to choose the ‘lesser evil’. they’re the ones literally living with their choice
they don’t share your definition of ‘accountable’ as ‘kicking her out via people power’
you better hold the opposition as well for electoral fraud
ramrod on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 1:01 am
“To me, the worst betrayal was by the participants themselves who chose expediency over the ideals of EDSA Dos when they choose not to hold Gloria accountable for electoral fraud because, in their view, she was the ‘lesser evil‘.†– cvj
True. To compromise with truth or integrity is never right, if its a choice – its a wrong choice! Whatever has become of some people, making the wrong look right because its a choice? What if someone chose to take your life tonight? Misguided, visionless, spineless, and gutless, mice…
ramrod on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 1:10 am
When leaders act contrary to conscience, we must act contrary to leaders. ~Veterans Fast for Life
It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. ~Voltaire
If… the machine of government… is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849
You’re not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can’t face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it. ~Malcolm X
ramrod on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 1:50 am
The media right now is probably our last line of defense…so what will it be? Still do nothing? Not even a word of encouragement for those who dare?
renmin on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:07 am
cvj
“Marx stood Hegel on his head” refers to Marx’s materialism as opposed to Hegel’s idealism. Marx took Hegel’s dialectic and applied it to the study of human history–historical materialism.
BrianB on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:34 am
Marx took the dialectic as a force, not as a description of history, which is what it originally was.
BrianB on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:37 am
There’s a difference between a philosophy of history that tyrants can use and one that they cannot use and can only be aware of, learn from, etc.
BrianB on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 3:18 am
“Marx took Hegel’s dialectic and applied it to the study of human history–historical materialism”
Hegel’s work is on human history.
Materialism: the only thing we can comprehend or is even worth discussing about is “matter.” Or in even dumber terms: what you see, hear, etc. is what happens.
Idealism: ideas, not just material things, are worth considering too. It’s worth everybody’s time to think about the immaterial.
When Hegel used dialectic (and he didn’t even use it very often) he used it on history in an “idealist” sense (considering both matter and ideas)
When Marx did it, it was on a materialist sense. Therefore it’s easy to understand how he came up with the clash of classes. Because he wasn’t interested in ideas but only in the material. What else is there if you only have people and their actions to consider? Unlike Hegel, who came up with the “spirit of civilizations.”
From Wikipedia entry “Dialectic”:
here’s Karl Marx:
Marx
hawaiianguy on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 5:16 am
Revolution (and EDSA) summons many things. Among them, I believe, is the fallacy of Edsa 1 placed in similar footing with Edsa 2, 3, etc., if there is such a thing as a number that comes after the first. Aside from the rather illusory ideal of putting down a “tyrant,” the rest break apart in their characterization.
In the first place, is Edsa 1 a “revolution” in the Marxian sense? (or, did “People Power” radically altered Philippine society as “true” revolutions elsewhere successfully changed theirs?)
hawaiianguy on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 5:19 am
(or, did=or, HAS …), sorry for the lapse.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 5:24 am
BrianB:
“Marx took the dialectic as a force, not as a description of history, which is what it originally was.” I take that you mean, it’s a prescription for history based on equality? (as in Marx’s ‘end of history’ dominated by the ruling class?)
hawaiianguy on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 5:44 am
bleue, “I don’t know if I will go back and shout in EDSA again thesedays. My voice is too precious to waste for them.” Can’t blame you. Philippine politics has gone so bad and appears going to the dogs, as many cynics (or critics) put it. They and those who missed it, somehow wish they were there in Edsa 1; they would like to raise the phoenix from its asses.
Would you consider joining again, if it’s led NOT by opportunistic politicians, but by non-partisan, “clean” fighters who want this “morally bankrupt” leadership OUT?
BrianB on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 6:22 am
“I take that you mean, it’s a prescription for history based on equality”
Not a prescription but an interpretation. These philosophers want an explanation of how everything works like theoretical scientists.
That’s really what I find curious with Marxism. Philosophy is not a prescription like religious law. You don’t have to force a philosophy to become truth.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 7:51 am
BrianB, got it! btw, where are you based at? Just curious, you quickly responded to my post.
bleue on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 9:27 am
hawaiianguy,
Would you consider joining again, if it’s led NOT by opportunistic politicians, but by non-partisan, “clean†fighters who want this “morally bankrupt†leadership OUT?”
By all means hawaiianguy, I will. But I don’t see that coming (at least now) because the opportunistic politicians are using every single opportunity to have their asses seen there, well that’s why they were tagged as opportunistic afterall. Tell me, how can you join an ouster call led and participated by the personas we wanted out seven years ago and their allies now that were one of us during EDSA DOS.
hawaiianguy on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 9:54 am
Bleue, “Tell me, how can you join an ouster call led and participated by the personas we wanted out seven years ago and their allies now that were one of us during EDSA DOS.”
Maybe, you got to be a bit more discerning now, there are still a few who are not “evil,” or haven’t been polluted yet. I read your excellent blog, some people you intimately know may have other views. Listen to them, re-assess your current position.
Some people change, for good or bad. Some sinners repent and become good, saintly ones become sinners. Even Jesus would accept a sinner-do-gooder.
bleue on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 10:13 am
hawaiianguy,
Got your point. Thanks. I am sure there are straight people in politics. I was too harsh and irresponsible with my statement on that. Let me revise that. Anyway, still, the evils exist out there.
bleue on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 10:24 am
I felt sorry for the straight public servants, they are also being dragged to dirt by the whole system they are in. For sure there are still “few” out there, with a hope that they will not be among the evils.
mlwnag on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 11:12 am
Any EDSA or presidential election, one side will be/has been a Hongkong-backed group or party.
Bencard on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 11:41 am
“gloria labandera”. as far as i see, a most nonsensical, hollow-brained, taunting ever produced by a homo sapien. obviously intended as a put-down, it doesn’t cut the mustard at all. if it meant to ridicule the president, it only succeeds in highlighting the vacuousness of the mind that authored it. being labandera may be a humble occupation but how can it demean anybody to be one? it’s neither insulting nor amusing anymore than being a salesman or a computer operator, or a janitor, is.
cvj on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 12:04 pm
thanks for the clarification renmin, much appreciated!
brianb, thanks for the explanation on idealism vs. materialism. Will have to chew on it.
bencard, i agree with you that associating gloria with labanderas is demeaning to the latter.
stuart-santiago on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 12:38 pm
posted this on my blog soon after trillanes nov. caper:
the edsa tradition
let’s not forget that what was remarkable, and what deserves re-creating, about edsa one was not so much the military rebellion as it was the non-violent action of the people, stopping tanks with their warm bodies and ardent prayers, which “disarmed†so to speak, and rendered non-violent too, the marcos military.
cardinal sin “forgot†this noong edsa dos. (the arroyos didn’t care, they were always ready to shoot it out.) and juan ponce enrile, miriam defensor santiago, and tito sotto “forgot†this noong edsa tres. this is why when historian rey ileto asked me, soon after edsa dos and tres, what differences i saw between “the original EDSA and its pale reflections,†i could only agree. pale reflections, indeed. poor imitations, in fact.
the edsa tradition would have been better re-lived by edsa dos if cardinal sin had not stopped the youth from moving the action to mendiola. noong edsa uno, day 3 pa lang, unarmed militant groups were already gathering in mendiola; coryistas marched in from edsa the next day. the mission: to scare marcos, make him think violent mobs were at the gates, on the verge of breaking in. in fact, non-violent pa rin ang strategy. some stones and bottles were thrown at the marines guarding the palace gates and barricades but not to hit or hurt, only to provoke the soldiers to shoot their guns in the air and thus freak out the marcoses.
but during edsa dos, cardinal sin was so afraid that violence would break out, remembering only the violent entry into and looting of the palace. in fact all that violence happened only after the choppers had lifted off with the marcoses and the marines had withdrawn. and had ramos and gringo/the new armed forces bothered to send troops to the palace along with the people (it’s not as if they didn’t know marcos was leaving), the transition would have been completely orderly.
and so, had the edsa dos crowd been allowed to march to mendiola a la edsa uno, with the mission in mind of peacefully, through sheer numbers, pressuring erap into signing an unequivocal letter of resignation drafted by the people, then that particular issue would truly be closed. instead, erap freaked out only enough to leave the seat of the presidency, but not to resign the office.
as for edsa tres. imagine if the edsa tres “mob†had been better informed by their leaders about edsa 1986, in particular how the non-violent strategy worked to neutralize the armed forces and freak the marcoses out. imagine if the masses who marched to mendiola marched peacefully instead and surrounded malacanang in a giant sit-in, filling the streets, stopping traffic, with priests saying mass and nuns leading the praying of the rosary 24/7… the armed forces would have been helpless, gloria would have had to negotiate, the erap question could have been more quickly and more clearly resolved.
our problem is, we’re fixated on a rebel military as the key to mobilizing people power. our problem is, we don’t see, or we forget, that by the time enrile and ramos defected in february ‘86, people power was already mobilized, it was already day 7 of cory’s civil disobedience campaign, coryistas were on non-violent revolutionary mode, the boycott of Marcos-crony businesses was peaking, and the economy was reeling from bank runs and capital flight. there was no doubt by then that cory’s strategy, to compel the business community to force marcos to step down, was succeeding. in fact it was succeeding so well, the military reformists just had to get into the act, and that’s when people power was diverted to edsa.
in other words, change is not up to the military, change is up to us. cory showed us the way, if we would only see.
mlq3 on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 1:05 pm
stuart, this is the interesting (and, for the long term, self-defeating thing) that happened at edsa dos. it was rushed to the extent that an undebatable resolution failed to be achieved. and i agree re: edsa tres.
ramrod on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 1:50 pm
“in other words, change is not up to the military, change is up to us. cory showed us the way, if we would only see.” – stuart-santiago
Exactly my sentiments since day 1! This requires a civilian solution, but its getting to be so long that military known for their high threshold for pain and injustice are buckling under the strain already. For people who actually seek out the truth they know, for those hiding in isolation somewhere oblivious to the realities here,well, they just blog, eat, sleep, and blog again – a very meaningful and productive life.
We have to make a move.
Incidentally, regarding Filipinos kuno living abroad who like to take potshots at people here fighting for good government, they also have a favorite past time in the states – reporting TNTs for a buck! Just visit this website made by a Filipino. Shame on you!
http://www.reportanddeport.org
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:13 pm
it was rushed bec those behind it was itching to sit in power..
atat na atat at di makapag hintay…
on civil war and revolutions…
the bourgeois finances it, the intelligentsia leads it, and the masses become cannon fodder for it.
on cory and gma both hunkering down and facing rebellion vs marcos and erap dithering on indecision to attack the masses, both women’s propensity to face down threats by force may be attributed to the fact that women leaders are all characterized by the fear of appearing weak in front of men. that they overcompensate for it thru force. marcos and erap doesn’t have the same insecurity as both women had, so they were able to afford to act softly agst the people. and as a result, they were ousted.
erap may be accussed of all things, but you had to at least commend him for one thing: he did not order the people hurt in EDSA 2. in that respect, he is nothing like gloria.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:15 pm
so is ruthlessness now to be admired?
and ivan the terrible become virtuous in future leaders’ eyes?
only if you see power as the means to and end, i think.
cvj on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:28 pm
Very true. ‘People Power’ didn’t just suddenly materialize on February 22 when Enrile and Ramos defected. Even before Cory’s civil disobedience campaign, there were lots of ‘people power’ exercises by way of protecting the votes cast during the Snap Election. During those days, i was always tuned in to Radio Veritas and i can hear the frequent calls (panawagans) for people power to guard the ballots at a particular precinct. We got so used to that term that when Cardinal Sin made that call to protect the defectors, it was almost second nature.
stuart-santiago on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:54 pm
you’re right, cvj. in fact people power started manifesting when marcos declared he would run in snap elections and chino roces launched the cory aquino for president movement (capm) and more than a million people signed a petition asking cory to run.
cvj on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 2:57 pm
That is ingrained in the human psyche which accounts for the periodic resurgence of fascism at various points in history. Witness those who admire Alfredo Lim (i voted for him), Mayor Duterte and Bayani Fernando. Also, remember Austero’s bargain.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 3:10 pm
a portion of Randy David’s column in today’s Inquirer
the full article can be found at inquirer.net
cvj on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 3:25 pm
Stuart-santiago, that’s why i think then, as it is now, people power requires practice in the small scale before we can unleash it again in a larger venue.
Excellent column by Randy David, thanks Devils. His statement “Because they are twins“, in effect “pare-pareho lang sila“, is embedded in the kind of reasoning that i can agree with.
stuart-santiago on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 3:26 pm
DevilsAdvc8: i read this article too. the coincidence is, i just sent the author a copy of my “edsa tradition”. will share his response with you guys, if any.
BrianB on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 6:45 pm
EDSA 2: Let’s move on
Arroyo: Let’s get it on
stuart-santiago on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 6:50 pm
from randy david:
“It wasn’t clear in my column, but your stress on the non-violent ethos of the original Edsa is a great point. It is indeed what makes people power powerful. Thank you!”
DJB Rizalist on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 6:56 pm
MLQ3,
Haha! You are a true Edsa Dos Die Hard. But I find this equivalence between Erap and Marcos amazing:
“Even when the defections began to gather pace, he knew, somehow, that his greatest ally was time. Up to the morning of the day he fell from power, it seemed quite possible he could counter-attack by summoning reinforcements from the provinces.
In retrospect, Ferdinand Marcos and Joseph Ejercito Estrada knew what had to be done, but were incapable of summoning the iron-clad resolve to do what needed to be done.”
Erap was nothing like Marcos in his use of “State Power”. Marcos was a megalomaniac while Erap was a dipsomaniac.
What you ignore is that Erap never imagined the Chief Justice would abort the impeachment trial whose verdict was already shown on 16 January 2001 to be: NOT GUILTY!
NO ONE saw that coming. In fact some people still don’t see that that was the essence of Edsa Dos!
UP n student on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 9:56 pm
Erap should not have left Malacanang. The Legislative Branch delivering publicly the “NOT GUILTY” charge has the authority of the Constitution behind it that will require the Military to follow suit.
UP n student on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 10:08 pm
Devil’s Advoc8 words :
on civil war and revolutions…
the bourgeois finances it, the intelligentsia leads it, and the masses become cannon fodder for it.
Follow the money, follow the money, and you find out who of the rich were fully engaged in PeoplePower EDSA.
tonyo cruz on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 10:31 pm
manolo, ano ba yan?! ano yang mga ideas mo about left’s “discreet” role? dogmatism?
anyway, here’s a retort: http://tonyocruz.com/?p=651
Bencard on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 10:33 pm
the initial success of edsa 1 (as far as removing marcos) gave birth to proliferation of “people power”. the lowdown is that the “gaya-gaya” mentality took shape and street protest has become an industry for people too naive and willing to be used for unsavory purposes for a few pesos and some noodles. soon after edsa 1, an almost daily mini “people power” to restore marcos reign (usually consisting of a few hundred people at best), converged in any space they could manage, causing traffic disruptions and annoyance to everyone else.
the enemies of the state saw in “people power” a clever instrument for advancing their ideological schemes. they coalesce with ordinary citizens who have some grievances against the authorities and try to seize control in the process.
no wonder, there is a growing people power “fatigue”. the exercise is fast losing its novelty and usefulness as an instrument of change.
Bencard on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 10:38 pm
“bencard, i agree with you that associating gloria with labandera is demeaning to the latter.”
thanks, cvj, for agreeing with me on something i did not say. at the rate you’re going, you’d soon be agreeing with yourself. and that would be a disaster, wouldn’t it?
UP n student on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 11:07 pm
but Bencard: cvj always agrees with himself!!!!
manuelbuencamino on Sat, 19th Jan 2008 11:20 pm
Words for this year’s EDSA Dos anniversary from Gloria’s men:
Eduardo Ermita – “So the least we talk about it, the better, OK?” He added he found no wisdom in commemorating Arroyo’s assumption of the presidency in 2001, considering that “not all allies are still with the President now.â€
Angelo Reyes – The gains of Edsa II, Reyes said, were diminished not by the presidential pardon for Estrada, but by the “failure of everybody to live up to its spirit.” “Who lost it? Who diminished it? Everybody did,” he said.
Bencard on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 12:02 am
upn stude, thanks for pointing that out. he is a firm believer of his own fantasy (lol).
BrianB on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 6:10 am
@hawaiianguy
No, just have to stay awake for news on Apple. I have an Apple-oriented site.
hawaiianguy on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 8:56 am
Stuart Santiago’s take on Edsa 2 is very enlightening, also Randy David’s.
Those readings demolish the “let’s forget it†advocacy and “gaya-gaya” analysis of Edsa. It’s the belief, or insistence, in using force (with a military component), and engineered by people lusting for power, that makes the BIG difference. That sounds like “conspiratorial” from another vantage point, judging it from the “Now it can be told†speech of Gloria, and published “admission†of her husband’s (Mike Arroyo) participation in the structure and mobilization of Edsa 2 (interview with Nick Joaquin). Try these links -
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh9bECSgfqk
2) http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/ht/ht006283.htm
Kutkut on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 9:28 am
Aggression is rarely found in the hearts and vocabulary of the true Filipino soldiers. The few ones corrupted by smart leaders are now the pillars of governance. Marcos and Estrada were only outsmarted. The ills we now have really started at EDSA i.
Kutkut on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 9:46 am
All our ills now started from EDSA 1.
tonyo cruz on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 1:19 pm
Manolo, so what is it really? Discreet or central role?
http://tonyocruz.com/?p=652
UP n student on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 7:55 pm
OFF-TOPIC: US-of-A race relations tidbit via Nevada primaries:
Race was also a factor for the first time in the Democratic contest. White caucusgoers went for Clinton 52 percent to 34 percent for Obama, while African Americans broke heavily for Obama, 83 percent to 14 percent for Clinton. Nearly two-thirds of Latinos opted for Clinton.
I suspect Filipinos of California and elsewhere also have hesitancy to vote for Obama.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 8:35 pm
an excerpt frm Artemio V. Panganiban’s column
public works, like highways, schools, bridges crumble and turn to dust. but as Panganiban has said, it is those things money can’t buy that lasts.
alas, billions of pesos, and our politician’s legacies are giant banners of waiting sheds and basketball courts. in Cam. Sur, Andaya even had a very large cemented letter “A” plastered on the rocks of an island in the middle of nowhere. that’s public service for you.
the public should learn that any politician who builds waiting sheds and basketball courts are not worth reelecting. as are those who initiates projects and posts billboards with their names larger than the building itself. a simple “project of the local govt of…” should suffice, or even better, no billboards at all. signs of wastage such as this should already clue in the public as to how these public officials think of public money as privately theirs. actually, this is how I evaluate politicians (more or less). if they dabble in public works more than anything else, you can bet they’re corrupt.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 8:37 pm
let me correct that. it’s Villafuerte who had a giant letter “V” plastered on an island. Andaya however had those series of waiting sheds lining quirino highway with their bases of support formed in the letter “A.”
sorry for the mistake.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 9:00 pm
Sen. Rodolfo Biazon’s words to Pat Evangelista (quoted from Pat’s PDI column)(emphasis mine)
that’s the church for you! growing fat and lazy, and helping to perpetuate poverty. with all that money, it could’ve gone to more worthwhile things. and no, token charity is not worthwhile. it’s a money drain. it relieves, but it does not solve.
vic on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 9:38 pm
Devil, that is what i always emphasize. Personalities come and go, strong and sturdy institutions remain and if these Personalities smart enough, knowing that their just a passing dots they should build a legacy that will last, the same as the Magsaysays,the Pierre Trudeau’s, Lester Pearson, Tommy Douglas and now as we look at these people we remember both their persons and the legacies they left behind and they are still with us still intact..some in the future may forget these personalities, but their legacies will be part of their lives, they may take them for granted, but they were fought hard by those who left the mark…
As for the Church, treat them with Carrot and Stick, or vice Versa..Give them carrots, we did, by Publicly funding their Schools, but we beat them with sticks by giving the women the Freedom of Choice by Enshrining that right in the Charter , the same as the Right to Religion and Conscience, their carrots…or carrots for all…
vic on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 9:46 pm
And I can’t even remember the Parliamentarians or the Leaders who fought for these fights, but as we see their legacies last longer than the Streets, the Bridges, as they have to be refurbished and rebuild every so many years..But the once powerful Churches, both the Catholic and the Anglican can now take their proper roles in a society meant to be Free from their influences in Governance, yet needed their co-operations and they are playing their roles quite well…
mlq3 on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 10:23 pm
tonyo, my assertion is, for tactical reasons, remarkably discreet during the protest days until the split over whether to march on the palace. the central role was in the march on the palace.
cvj on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 10:41 pm
Correct me if i misread Manolo, but i think you mentioned in a previous blog entry that the Left was proven correct in its ‘Resign All‘ stance.
mlq3 on Sun, 20th Jan 2008 11:43 pm
cjv, yes, i’ve stated that in retrospect, the resign all call was the correct one to make.
UP n student on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 12:16 am
but vic… Had Magsaysay left a Filipino nation a civil service and bureaucracy as robust as the three bridges — Jones Bridge, Quiapo and Santa Cruz — life will be great. These 3 bridges, they’re still there!!!!
Bencard on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 12:24 am
devilsadvoc8, don’t forget the mother of all “public service”, the thick-concrete face of marcos near the entrance to baguio.
Bencard on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 12:32 am
the “resign call” had no basis, and could have created real crisis and instability for the country. and for what – to put the losers in power?
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 12:55 am
bencard, yes. tnx for pointing that out. im sure marcos had mt.rushmoore in mind. but he forgot that mt.rushmoore wasn’t commissioned by the same persons who owned those faces.
self-aggrandizement is one sign of a megalomaniac
BrianB on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 1:01 am
Resign All?
You’re opening the door to Mr. Civil War.
vic on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 1:23 am
UPn, not one single leader is capable of building a great nation in one swoop. Magsaysay (maybe a little biased here, since He is my darling niece bibs Lolo Monding) had left a Legacy of Compassion and the the Principle of More to those who have less in Life..Not live long enough to make sure they have made its roots strong and last forever, those legacies where also forgotten and eventually never taken root as we only remember the Greatness of the Person..
Douglas left us the legacy of Universality, while Trudeau always the Libertarian, gave us the Charter (yes it was during his Tenure)and it was He who said that the Government has no Business in the Nation’s Bedroom and Pearson before becoming PM, I believe won the Nobel Prize for his Brainchild, the UN peacekeeping…Collectively those leaders who are now in the other side of life, help built a Great Nation and collectively too, built Infrastructure just as strong as their Legacies, the Burlington Sky-way, a long Bridge that opens up for Ocean Freighters docking to unload their cargoes, the Trans Canada Railway, that made BC joined the Confederation instead of the U.S.A. and many more..but they are the Tangibles, the Intangibles are the ones we cherished the MOST…
vic on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 1:49 am
Sorry,the Burlington skyway is no longer a “draw Bridge” as it was redesigned to accomodate all sizes of Ocean freighter underneath…
Bencard on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 1:59 am
vic, sorry to put a fly on your ointment but magsaysay (my idol as a teenager) only served for only about half his term, and died tragically in a way that created an outpouring of national emotion. by the time he died, there were already ripples on the stream with the likes of recto, tanada, etc. raising the “lap-dog” relationship issue with the u.s., not to mention continuation of venalities in the government and ubiquitous economic issues. what could have happened had he not died and was able to run for re-election? could his image been tarnished?
vic on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 2:31 am
bencard, that we would never know. As if Marcos just faded after his term, He might even be able to keep his supposedly fake war medals, instead of what he is remembered today…But Magsaysay is today remembered as a Great Person, but I’m not even sure if any one of his deeds and thoughts been Remembered during his Life…as for bibs quote, “only a Magsaysay can beat a Magsaysay”, yet don’t know if she will ever, that’s including her two bros, think of beating some of them…I meant the bad ones…they just love California…
vic on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 2:43 am
Also being a lapdog of the U.S. is always a convenient issue for those Nationalist, even if a leader is doing it for the long term interest of his Nation..
I remember during the long negotiation of NAFTA, most Liberals making an issue of Brian Mulroney Conservative and personally Mulroney, also being Irish like Reagan was just giving all to President Reagan and to make counter the Critics, they both did the Duet of the Irish Eyes..
Now that we are making a $50 billions trade surplus, almost on sustained basis, well, a lap-dog had done more for the interest of his country than old those pitbulls combined…anyway pitbulls are now an illegal Breed in Ontario and grandfathered. After their life span, they are goners..dangerous animals..
Shaman of Malilipot on Mon, 21st Jan 2008 11:13 am
“I’m not saying this applies to all, but the feeling of ‘being had‘ as a reason for tuning out is a little bit too convenient. If it was a ‘President’ FPJ or ‘President’ Noli de Castro who was caught red handed talking to Garci, there will have been lesser problem mobilizing the EDSA Dos crowd. Instead, what we get from otherwise decent folks are rationalizations and as a result, we’re stuck in this low intensity civil war (or its prelude).” – cvj
Right, cvj, and the EDSA Dos crowd mostly became the “move on” crowd.
UP n student on Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 2:25 am
Hey, vic…. That’s a waste of legislative powers. It is the HIV virus that Ontario should ban, not pitbulls!!!!
vic on Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 2:39 am
UPn, HIV virus quite easy not to get infected with…but pitbulls, once they locked on their strong Jaws on children or even adults, even a full Mag of .40 S&W won’t help much, that’s the cops service cartridge on their Glocks..but knowingly spreading your HIV virus could also land you in Jail..
UP n student on Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 2:51 am
vic: if your teen-age son or daughter gets HIV (or the less deadly herpes virus), neither a .223, .30-06, .308 nor a even a .308 or the 12.7×99mm NATO (.50 BMG) ammunition can help. [Well, I suppose you can point a weapon on "...the other party" and pull the trigger, but that, if it is legal in Ontario, should not be.]
vic on Tue, 22nd Jan 2008 3:46 am
UPn, as much as we all would like to get rid of all the risk of living, some we can’t just do, legally or possibly. Take the gun crimes, this week, two by-standers became victims of gun crimes. It is Illegal for anyone to carry firearms in Canada except Law enforcement
officers and others for the performance of their jobs, but there, two shootouts right downtown and both instances,two innocent victims, the Criminals can’t shoot straight…
There is already a law in the book that make it a criminal offense to knowingly spread the HIV virus, and just recently as a year ago, one man was convicted of the crime. But if someday, someone can come up with the idea how to legislate a Ban on HIV virus, the idea is very attractive and we can use it as Campaign Issue in my electoral riding..we can not beat the Member here for the longest time, even my own sisters will not vote for my Party’s candidate, the MP just so popular he can win without leaving his house campaigning…
Jeff Wilson on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 7:24 pm
Ramrod, please check your facts before spewing your venom, ok? http://www.reportanddeport.org is NOT produced by a Filipino. I am an American in America. My WIFE is a Filipina, and she is a legal immigrant, unlike the millions of illegal aliens from Mexico. I’m NOT INVOLVED with the government in The Philippines, though I do hate all Communists and Radical Muslims in the world. Commies are parasites, muderers and tyrants. They are everything they claim to oppose. They are dependent on a supply of uneducated and poor fools for power and support.
Jeff Wilson on Sun, 17th Feb 2008 7:30 pm
Ramrod, I was just told by my asawa what a “TNT” is. And there is NO ENFORCEMENT of immigration laws in the United States. If you make it here, you STAY here unless you get caught committing a crime other than illegal entry. A BOUNTY on turning in illegal aliens? RIDICULOUS NONSENSE. The government DOESN’T CARE and they wouldn’t even arrest an illegal alien if I paid THEM to do it. At ako meron mas marami Pinoy kaibigan dito.