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	<title>Comments on: Autumn of the Patriarch</title>
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	<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/</link>
	<description>Punditry. Politics. History. Commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: grd</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-648643</link>
		<dc:creator>grd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-648643</guid>
		<description>kudos to kulit and vic. my hatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s off to you both for showing humility here. iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m always humbled w/ such exemplary act. i too would like to apologize to vic/naykika for the heated exchange. believe me, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s nothing personal (i&#039;ve let the matter rest earlier). and as kulit wrote, weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re on the same side when talking of one person.

my apologies to cvj as well for my Ã¢â‚¬Å“enthusiasmÃ¢â‚¬Â.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kudos to kulit and vic. my hatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s off to you both for showing humility here. iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m always humbled w/ such exemplary act. i too would like to apologize to vic/naykika for the heated exchange. believe me, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s nothing personal (i&#8217;ve let the matter rest earlier). and as kulit wrote, weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re on the same side when talking of one person.</p>
<p>my apologies to cvj as well for my Ã¢â‚¬Å“enthusiasmÃ¢â‚¬Â.</p>
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		<title>By: vic</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-648442</link>
		<dc:creator>vic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-648442</guid>
		<description>kulit, no harm done man. that&#039;s the beauty of this type of forum, we can air our differences and in the end we all can sort them all out.  It is but natural that sometimes each of us will go overboard, as we noticed that not only a few times that every single one of us here locked horns with one another. We can only thanks   our host, MLQ 3 for all his patience and tolerance for all our indulgence. I too rest my case and have a nice weekend to all as I have a very good reason to celebrate mine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kulit, no harm done man. that&#8217;s the beauty of this type of forum, we can air our differences and in the end we all can sort them all out.  It is but natural that sometimes each of us will go overboard, as we noticed that not only a few times that every single one of us here locked horns with one another. We can only thanks   our host, MLQ 3 for all his patience and tolerance for all our indulgence. I too rest my case and have a nice weekend to all as I have a very good reason to celebrate mine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: kulit</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-648274</link>
		<dc:creator>kulit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 05:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-648274</guid>
		<description>and vic,

pardon man if you got offended with some of my earlier remarks. i got offended too that i couldn&#039;t help but react. as ronin pointed out, we are guests here of manolo quezon, and no need for &quot;personalan&quot;. besides if you knew me personally, you&#039;d find me the most liberal bloke on this side of the planet.

i rest my case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and vic,</p>
<p>pardon man if you got offended with some of my earlier remarks. i got offended too that i couldn&#8217;t help but react. as ronin pointed out, we are guests here of manolo quezon, and no need for &#8220;personalan&#8221;. besides if you knew me personally, you&#8217;d find me the most liberal bloke on this side of the planet.</p>
<p>i rest my case.</p>
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		<title>By: kulit</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-648259</link>
		<dc:creator>kulit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 05:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-648259</guid>
		<description>vic,

&quot;And also even I may or may not re-apply for my citizenship back, I also believe that my regular remittances (my brother and his wife need an enormous sum just for maintenance medication regularly) have somehow help the countryÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s economy and some of those monies go to taxes too (evat and other taxes) and I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t even get benefits from them.&quot;

what does the &quot;benefits&quot; there imply? if you want to get benefits, then the option is to become a filipino citizen again. and what about the potshot of dodong regarding his contribution to the philippine economy. i have a niece and a nephew who study in England and sister and my brother-law send them money regularly -- does that imply that uk owes them politically because the money goes to the british economy?  

you have to differentiate, the 8 to 10 million filipinos are mostly overseas contract workers (domestic helpers, seamen, construction workers, some professionals), not permanent immigrants like you who took another nationality. these people if they want to demand from the government, have every right to do so and are not out of line. now who&#039;s mixing things up?

and i didn&#039;t say that you don&#039;t have anything to do with the country again. again you&#039;re taking it personally, as i said it&#039;s not you, it&#039;s the attitude...

hoho, about gma -- now, that&#039;s another topic altogether, and believe me, we are on the same side there, as one of the reasons why pinoys are flocking to embassies -- but now, that&#039;s another context altogether     

hey appreciate it man, we really do, that you are still concerned with the philippines, as a nation, as a country and not just because of your relatives. i just want to point out what needs to be pointed out when a certain line got crossed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vic,</p>
<p>&#8220;And also even I may or may not re-apply for my citizenship back, I also believe that my regular remittances (my brother and his wife need an enormous sum just for maintenance medication regularly) have somehow help the countryÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s economy and some of those monies go to taxes too (evat and other taxes) and I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t even get benefits from them.&#8221;</p>
<p>what does the &#8220;benefits&#8221; there imply? if you want to get benefits, then the option is to become a filipino citizen again. and what about the potshot of dodong regarding his contribution to the philippine economy. i have a niece and a nephew who study in England and sister and my brother-law send them money regularly &#8212; does that imply that uk owes them politically because the money goes to the british economy?  </p>
<p>you have to differentiate, the 8 to 10 million filipinos are mostly overseas contract workers (domestic helpers, seamen, construction workers, some professionals), not permanent immigrants like you who took another nationality. these people if they want to demand from the government, have every right to do so and are not out of line. now who&#8217;s mixing things up?</p>
<p>and i didn&#8217;t say that you don&#8217;t have anything to do with the country again. again you&#8217;re taking it personally, as i said it&#8217;s not you, it&#8217;s the attitude&#8230;</p>
<p>hoho, about gma &#8212; now, that&#8217;s another topic altogether, and believe me, we are on the same side there, as one of the reasons why pinoys are flocking to embassies &#8212; but now, that&#8217;s another context altogether     </p>
<p>hey appreciate it man, we really do, that you are still concerned with the philippines, as a nation, as a country and not just because of your relatives. i just want to point out what needs to be pointed out when a certain line got crossed.</p>
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		<title>By: vic</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-647747</link>
		<dc:creator>vic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-647747</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt; &quot;send my money home to my relatives, therefore the country owes me or it gives me the right to be high and mighty, and the fact that I have renounced my filpino citizenship should be ignored. itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s like charity, if one is sincere, then thereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s no point of announcing oneÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s deed, unless one wants to personally profit from it.&quot;&lt;/em&gt; kulit said..

kulit, it was you who suggested that we have nothing to do with the country anymore and I gave you one reason that by sending remitance home is one way I help the country indirectly by helping my relatives and it doesn&#039;t make me high and mighty and so does the other 8 to 10 millions other Filipinos sending remittances home.  I don&#039;t expect anything from my country, not even from my adopted country, so to suggest that  the Philippines owes me something is just your own idea to bolster your argument. And again I never renounced my Filipino citizenship, as I also mentioned that Canada respects multiple citizenships.  now don&#039;t try to mix up everything...and intolerance of others because it irritates others, then what can you suggest about PGMA when she too not only irritates a lot but drives many to the mountains and thousands out of the country?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em> &#8220;send my money home to my relatives, therefore the country owes me or it gives me the right to be high and mighty, and the fact that I have renounced my filpino citizenship should be ignored. itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s like charity, if one is sincere, then thereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s no point of announcing oneÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s deed, unless one wants to personally profit from it.&#8221;</em> kulit said..</p>
<p>kulit, it was you who suggested that we have nothing to do with the country anymore and I gave you one reason that by sending remitance home is one way I help the country indirectly by helping my relatives and it doesn&#8217;t make me high and mighty and so does the other 8 to 10 millions other Filipinos sending remittances home.  I don&#8217;t expect anything from my country, not even from my adopted country, so to suggest that  the Philippines owes me something is just your own idea to bolster your argument. And again I never renounced my Filipino citizenship, as I also mentioned that Canada respects multiple citizenships.  now don&#8217;t try to mix up everything&#8230;and intolerance of others because it irritates others, then what can you suggest about PGMA when she too not only irritates a lot but drives many to the mountains and thousands out of the country?</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-647585</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-647585</guid>
		<description>grd, ronin, sorry guys grd is right, nahilo ako, the mix up was not deliberate. i was waiting for grd&#039;s response and i shot from the hip.  my apologies.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;anyway, my take here is this: if these guys who have Ã¢â‚¬ËœchangedÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ nationalities offer their two cents in this forum, then let them. in the first place, this is a free country. second, this is not our blog, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s manoloÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s, right? - ronin&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, i remember it was Manolo who invited Vic for some inputs on the Canadian system of government.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;vic, iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d appreciate a copy of your comments re: parliamentarism. - mlq3 March 27th, 2006 at 11:30 am&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grd, ronin, sorry guys grd is right, nahilo ako, the mix up was not deliberate. i was waiting for grd&#8217;s response and i shot from the hip.  my apologies.  </p>
<blockquote><p>anyway, my take here is this: if these guys who have Ã¢â‚¬ËœchangedÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ nationalities offer their two cents in this forum, then let them. in the first place, this is a free country. second, this is not our blog, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s manoloÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s, right? &#8211; ronin</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, i remember it was Manolo who invited Vic for some inputs on the Canadian system of government.  </p>
<blockquote><p>vic, iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d appreciate a copy of your comments re: parliamentarism. &#8211; mlq3 March 27th, 2006 at 11:30 am</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: ronin</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-647550</link>
		<dc:creator>ronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-647550</guid>
		<description>&quot;this is in reference to your (cvj&#039;s) conclusion that ronin and i are one and the same.&quot; - grd

hey, i&#039;m flattered to be mistaken with another poster here, but for the record, i&#039;m definitely not grd...nor any other person in this forum/blog.

there is only one ronin. 

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;this is in reference to your (cvj&#8217;s) conclusion that ronin and i are one and the same.&#8221; &#8211; grd</p>
<p>hey, i&#8217;m flattered to be mistaken with another poster here, but for the record, i&#8217;m definitely not grd&#8230;nor any other person in this forum/blog.</p>
<p>there is only one ronin. </p>
<p> <img src='http://www.quezon.ph/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: grd</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-647521</link>
		<dc:creator>grd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-647521</guid>
		<description>cvj, if you think i&#039;m trying to get personal with vic or naykika here, you&#039;re wrong. i know him way back in another space and i even defended him when others start criticizing his obvious biases. but i&#039;m one who calls a spade a spade just like in this case. 

iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not trying to suppress anyone. i&#039;m a person who appreciates a good deed and a good argument whenever i see or read one regardless of one person&#039;s political leaning but i wont hesitate to criticize either if i see it fit even if the person and i are on the same side of the fence. i donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t argue just for the sake of arguing. and iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m one who easily accept my mistake if iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m proven wrong. hindi ako namimilosopo just for the sake of winning an argument.

when i say, practice what you preach, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s all in reference to your statement below. 

&lt;blockquote&gt; Rather than address the argument, he chose to focus on the person making the argument, which is the defining characteristic of ad hominem attacksÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ Rather than focusing on the messengers, we should focus on the message(s)Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ cvj &lt;/blockquote&gt;

for you to give that advise and be heard, you have to be consistent. and try not to be judgmental. this is in reference to your conclusion that ronin and i are one and the same. i donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t believe that was not deliberate considering a person of your intellect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cvj, if you think i&#8217;m trying to get personal with vic or naykika here, you&#8217;re wrong. i know him way back in another space and i even defended him when others start criticizing his obvious biases. but i&#8217;m one who calls a spade a spade just like in this case. </p>
<p>iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not trying to suppress anyone. i&#8217;m a person who appreciates a good deed and a good argument whenever i see or read one regardless of one person&#8217;s political leaning but i wont hesitate to criticize either if i see it fit even if the person and i are on the same side of the fence. i donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t argue just for the sake of arguing. and iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m one who easily accept my mistake if iÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m proven wrong. hindi ako namimilosopo just for the sake of winning an argument.</p>
<p>when i say, practice what you preach, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s all in reference to your statement below. </p>
<blockquote><p> Rather than address the argument, he chose to focus on the person making the argument, which is the defining characteristic of ad hominem attacksÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ Rather than focusing on the messengers, we should focus on the message(s)Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ cvj </p></blockquote>
<p>for you to give that advise and be heard, you have to be consistent. and try not to be judgmental. this is in reference to your conclusion that ronin and i are one and the same. i donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t believe that was not deliberate considering a person of your intellect.</p>
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		<title>By: grd</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-647489</link>
		<dc:creator>grd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 05:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-647489</guid>
		<description>cvj, hilo ka na ba? obviously, i&#039;m no ronin.

&lt;blockquote&gt; grd, how can someone Ã¢â‚¬Ëœhelp outÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ silently in a blog?.. cvj &lt;/blockquote&gt;

obvious ba kung ano ang ibig naming sabihin ni kulit? try figure it out jose rizal. 

just one more thing, what do you mean by &quot;help out&quot; in a blog? oh, yes, i remember you said it before, blogging is a patriotic act.

and again, if i may reiterate, practice what you preach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cvj, hilo ka na ba? obviously, i&#8217;m no ronin.</p>
<blockquote><p> grd, how can someone Ã¢â‚¬Ëœhelp outÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ silently in a blog?.. cvj </p></blockquote>
<p>obvious ba kung ano ang ibig naming sabihin ni kulit? try figure it out jose rizal. </p>
<p>just one more thing, what do you mean by &#8220;help out&#8221; in a blog? oh, yes, i remember you said it before, blogging is a patriotic act.</p>
<p>and again, if i may reiterate, practice what you preach.</p>
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		<title>By: kulit</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/11/15/autumn-of-the-patriarch/comment-page-3/#comment-647483</link>
		<dc:creator>kulit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 05:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1600#comment-647483</guid>
		<description>hope you&#039;re not being deliberately daft cvj, &quot;silence&quot; here means being silent on what should be kept to oneself -- i.e. i send my money home to my relatives, therefore the country owes me or it gives me the right to be high and mighty, and the fact that I have renounced my filpino citizenship should be ignored. it&#039;s like charity, if one is sincere, then there&#039;s no point of announcing one&#039;s deed, unless one wants to personally profit from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hope you&#8217;re not being deliberately daft cvj, &#8220;silence&#8221; here means being silent on what should be kept to oneself &#8212; i.e. i send my money home to my relatives, therefore the country owes me or it gives me the right to be high and mighty, and the fact that I have renounced my filpino citizenship should be ignored. it&#8217;s like charity, if one is sincere, then there&#8217;s no point of announcing one&#8217;s deed, unless one wants to personally profit from it.</p>
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