Autumn of the Patriarch
November 15, 2007 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
According to the police, PNP: Akbar was target: Basilan politics eyed in bombing.
My column for today is House in the line of fire.
This piece, The March of the Caudillos, makes for interesting reading, combined with Venezuela scrambles for food despite oil boom and Putin: I have a moral right to continue wielding influence.
A Surigao story I recently saw in a mailing list I subscribe to:
One of the more original Surigaonons is the Ecleo family. The old man Ecleo passed away one week before the elections and he was running for Congressman. The family immediately asked the Comelec to make the wife his replacement and news about the death of the old man Ecleo was quashed.
It was hard, though, to hide news like the death of a political bigwig, so the family came up with a heck of an idea. Since most of his constituents lived in islands close to the mainland, however, they made announcements that Ecleo would be visiting the islands to shoot down the “rumors” about his death being exaggerated. So they put him in a banca on a chair and with fishing line and disguised straps, actually went around the islands, his arms waving up and down. His head turned over by an alalay to the side of the island being visited. They kept the poor guy pumped with enough formalin to last at least two weeks, but only need[ed] ten days, actually. His poll watchers were at each precinct to tell the voters to write the family name or his wife’s name when they got to the polls. Astoundingly, he won.
And, well, just because I can, here’s a link to an entry by Dissenting Opinion who doesn’t believe in criminalizing necrophilia.
And in remembrance of Commonwealth Day, Bacolod preserves Tindalo tree planted by Quezon.
Technorati Tags: law, philippines, politics
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Jen on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 11:39 am
thanks for sharing that surigao story…quite disturbing.
i remember the news about the actress jean garcia suddenly flying home after visiting dinagat island. she never did say why she hurriedly left. maybe she saw the old man in the banca…hehe..
The Equalizer on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 12:06 pm
“Legend has it that after El Cid died, his wife strapped his body to his horse and sent it back into battle, believing that his troops would be defeated from demoralization. The troops, thinking that their leader was riding to fight beside them, rallied once more. The opposing army was so afraid of what looked to be an invincible fighter, that they retreated to their boats. ”
The Pinoy El Cid!
ronin on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 12:11 pm
The Ecleo clan’s grip of Dinagat Island is a clear example of Philippine politics taken to the extreme. All the ingredients are there: graft and corruption, abuse of power, nepotism, patronage politics, personality cults, Messiahnic complex, then throw in greed, paranoia, lawlessness, violence, murder, rape, ignorance, apathy, religious cults, superstitions, and a sprinkling of craziness. Did I miss anything else?
The Equalizer on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 12:20 pm
Did I miss anything else?ronin
VICTIMS
ronin on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 12:29 pm
Of course! The victims. Sad to say, there were a lot of them.
ronin on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 12:51 pm
Old man Ecleo started out as a preacher/albularyo for a group thatlater became known as the Philippine Benevolent Missionaries Association (PBMA). This is a wandering group of faith healers, the prime attraction of which is the members’ supposed supernatural ability to extract teeth painlessly and bloodlessly. Needless to say, they were a hit in the hinterlands of the Visayas. Ecleo Sr. found his way into Dinagat Island in the early 60s, established his roots there, and brought in his religius entourage. Soon, word of his miracles spread and the faithffull flocked to the tiny island in the northeastern tip of Mindanao. He used this as his base for launching his political career. Over the years, he was elected into various positions, with no small help from his legions of followers. If faith didn’t work, he had his own armed thugs. Yes, the healer has become a warlord. He also controlled the rights to the island’s mines, giving him access to wealth for his warchest. It is said that power corrupts. Ecleo was no exception. He left a trail of shenanigans and abuses. Sexual abuse was also in the agenda, as naive female followers soon found themselves bedded by their prophet.
Eventually, his brother, wife and children became well-entrenched in Dinagat’s political life. When he passed away, the political mantle passed on to his eldest son, Ruben Jr. To say he was unprepared for the task is an understatement. Junior wanted to be a rock star, not Jesus Christ. But the show must go on, so he became the new figurehead, playing his electric guitar while sniffing shabu, while his mom and his uncles and brothers do the actual groundwork. Five years ago or so, Junior was a suspect for the murder of his wife. During the trial, he allegedly sent an assassin to Cebu, his wife’s hometown, and made colander out of Ruben Jr.’s in-laws using an Ingram machine pistol. The heir then holed up in his family’s mansion-cum-stronghold called “White House,” protected by machine pistol-wielding women bodyguards (no kidding). The PNP had to send its commandos, the Special Action Force, armed with recoilless rifles no less, to flush him out and bring him to court. In the meantime, his mom, Glenda Ecleo, is the representative for the 1st District of Surigao del Norte…
And then we ask why justice is hard to find in our Islands.
john marzan on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 1:47 pm
Wasn’t there a movie made about that? Weekend at Bernies?
Jon Mariano on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 2:19 pm
It also proves that if you have a core group of diehards that can frighten the majority, you can extend your reign in power.
Willy on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 2:55 pm
Wow ronin, that story is breathtaking.
Together with the stories on Akbar’s Basilan, we pretty much get the idea how our island provinces are run, stuck right in a time warp in the middle ages. sigh…
ronin on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 3:22 pm
willy: your phrase ’stuck right in a time warp in the middle ages’ is right on target.
Willy on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 3:46 pm
Here’s a breath of fresh air from Datu Paglas in Maguindanao:
newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view_article.php?article_id=85049
(excerpts)
…”When you help the poor, the country becomes peaceful.”…
…The seemingly unending conflicts between the Moro National Liberation Front, and later the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, and the government have left many residents of Datu Paglas homeless.
“Most of them — uneducated because schools were often used as evacuation centers –lived in shanties,” Paglas said….
…He noted that the rebels disappeared as the colorful houses built by Gawad Kalinga volunteers replaced the shanties in the barangays (villages)…Gawad Kalinga, according to the former town mayor, gave villagers back the hope and dignity they lost from years of misfortune.
“The beneficiaries helped the Gawad Kalinga volunteers build the houses,” Paglas said. After a few months, a hundred families in the town’s Poblacion area moved into their new homes.
The following months saw the proliferation of Gawad Kalinga villages in Datu Panglas. But more than giving physical structures for the residents to live in, the project allowed a climate of peace to reign in the area, Paglas said…”We have barangays where Christians, Muslims and the ‘lumads’ (indigenous people) live together,” he said, adding that the building of homes paved the way for the healing of relationships between people with different religions…
tonio on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 4:01 pm
proof of the power of personal politics. the power of names.
as much as we try to say otherwise, it’s still pretty darned feudal out in these islands.
qwert on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 4:15 pm
“she never did say why she hurriedly left. maybe she saw the old man in the banca…hehe..”-jen
___________________
… or maybe she was asked to sit beside the dead man and made to wave her hand too…(just kidding)
vic on Thu, 15th Nov 2007 9:51 pm
We’ll, here’s another one that may explode or fizzle, defending on the results of the coming public inquiry. Everything at the moment all allegation by him and him but the only way to PROVE is to conduct a proper Independent Impartial Public Inquiry. You may read the whole shenanigans here:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/276708
BrianB on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 12:02 am
MLQ3 seems to be reading a lot of classic novels.
BrianB on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 12:03 am
lately
TonGuE-tWisTeD on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 12:18 am
The dead winning an election shouldn’t come as a surprise in a country where even the blind can get a driver’s license.
Not less morbid like Surigao’s Ecleo, Laguna once had a dead man win a congressional post. Re-electionist Congressman Nereo Joaquin in 1998 was suffering from critical illness with a few days to go before elections. People in the know will swear that he died the day (or hours?) before the elections, substitution was therefore impossible. Instead of breaking the news, they kept it secret and he won. The next day it was announced and his party later replaced him with the wife, Uliran, who went to serve the max of three terms ending only last June.
Of course we also have the very old but irreplaceable (read: unsuccessful in building a dynasty) Mayor Cuneta of Pasay City who would run alongside any of the sons for the same position in every election. The strategy is, if the old man survives until election day, the son backs out. If he doesn’t, all the “Cuneta” votes go to the son.
How about Wahab Akbar’s replacement? He’s got 4 wives. I don’t think the constitution allows time-sharing.
Proud to be Tsinoy on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 12:37 am
This would have been so funny if it wasn’t really in truth, a real sad state of affairs in SUrigao…
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 1:11 am
Tongue,
“The dead winning an election shouldn’t come as a surprise in a country where even the blind can get a driver’s license.”
Bush’s former attorney general John Ashcroft lost an election to a dead man.
Also, in Georgia, USA (I’m not sure if they finally repealed the law) the dead are allowed to vote in the election immediately preceding their death. The rationale is, he would have voted Democrat or Republican, as the case may be, if he had not died.
So we’re in good company.
BrianB on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 1:19 am
“And, well, just because I can, here’s a link to an entry by Dissenting Opinion who doesn’t believe in criminalizing necrophilia.”
That’s why I want to be cremated when I die.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 3:41 am
“That’s why I want to be cremated when I die.”
Because you are afraid your body will be sexually abused by some sicko?
That is truly sick. necrophilic. and gay.
and for you to entertain it.
btw, what’s the guarantee that necrophilics don’t haunt cremation spots? you can be sodomized before your body is cremated. that truly sucks.
so much for cremation.
d0d0ng on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 4:43 am
manuelbuencamino, “Also, in Georgia, USA (I’m not sure if they finally repealed the law) the dead are allowed to vote in the election immediately preceding their death. The rationale is, he would have voted Democrat or Republican, as the case may be, if he had not died.”
As long as you mailed your proxy vote before you died, that is counted. Most old people vote by proxies because they don’t want to go to the crowded polling stations in wheelchair.
d0d0ng on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 5:00 am
Oh my gosh!
The embalmers must have been a field day when dead hot female celebrities were in their custody!
I never imagined.
d0d0ng on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 5:55 am
I was completely surprised with Muslims obssession with guns. It is like the Americans obssession with their right to own gun.
supremo on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 7:32 am
Forwarded herewith, for your information, is the statement of President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo regarding the explosion at the House of Representative on 13 November 2007.
Thank you
PHILIPPINE CONSULATE GENERAL NEW YORK
556 Fifth Ave., New York, NY 10036 USA
Tel: (212) 764-1330
Fax: (212) 382-1146
Email: newyork@pcgny.net
Website: http://www.pcgny.net
PRESIDENT GLORIA MACAPAGAL-ARROYO’S MESSAGE ON THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVE’S EXPLOSION INCIDENT
Press Briefing Room, New Executive Building
November 13, 2007
MGA KABABAYAN:
NAKIKIRAMAY TAYO AT NAGDARASAL PARA SA MGA NASAWI AT NASAKTAN KASAMA
ANG ILANG MAMBABATAS SA PAGSASABOG SA BATASAN. INATASAN KO ANG MGA
MANGGAGAMOT NG PAMAHALAAN NA AGAD SUMAKLOLO SA MGA BIKTIMA AT ANG
ATING KAPULISAN AT SANDATAHANG LAKAS NA LALONG HIGPITAN ANG SEGURIDAD
NG KAMAYNILAAN.
I’VE ORDERED PNP CHIEF AVELINO RAZON TO PERSONALLY OVERSEE THE
INVESTIGATION OF THIS EXPLOSION, DETERMINE ITS CAUSE AND SUBMIT
PERIODIC REPORTS, INCLUDING IMMEDIATE MEASURES BEING TAKEN TO PREVENT
ANY OTHER DESTRUCTIVE EVENTS.
I’VE ALSO CONVENED THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
TONIGHT TO ASSESS THE SECURITY SITUATION AND INSTITUTE IMMEDIATE
MEASURES TO ADDRESS ANY THREATS.
HABANG NAGSISIYASAT ANG PULIS AT PINAGTITIBAY ANG PAGBABANTAY SA
BANSA, NANANAWAGAN TAYO NA IWASAN ANG MGA HAKA-HAKA, PARATANG AT
SABI-SABI NA MAAARING LUMIKHA NG KAGULUHAN, TAKOT AT HIDWAAN.
SA HALIP NA MAGTURUAN, KAILANGAN MAGKAPIT-BISIG TAYO AT MAGMATYAG
LABAN SA IBA PANG MGA BANTA NA MAAARING NAKAUMANG SA ATING KAPAYAPAAN.
LET ME ASSURE OUR PEOPLE AND OUR FRIENDS HERE AND ABROAD THAT THE
PHILIPPINES AND YOUR GOVERNMENT SHALL NOT REST UNTIL WE GET TO THE
BOTTOM OF THIS TRAGEDY AND HUNT DOWN AND PUNISH THE PERPETRATORS.
Watchful eye on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 8:07 am
Compare and contrast GMA’s statement after Glorietta 2 blast –
My Dear Countrymen,
At around 1:30 this afternoon the Makati area was rocked by a powerful explosion which so far resulted in 8 killed and at least 70 persons wounded. Initial investigations indicate that the explosion could not have been caused by a LPG accident as earlier reported. Circumstances indicate it is highly probable that it was caused by an explosive device.
We assure everyone that a full blown investigation is now underway. The Philippine National Police and the Armed Forces of the Philippines are on highest alert and are fielding an additional 2000 personnel to secure our public places and to prevent a possible similar occurrence.
I warn those who seek to exploit this incident to destabilize our government for their selfish political motives.
Meanwhile, we urge all sectors to remain vigilant as the government steps up security measures to protect our people.
I am deeply saddened by this unfortunate incident and I extend my sincerest sympathies to the families of those were killed and wounded. The Department of Social Welfare and Development and the National Disaster and Coordinating Council are in close touch with the victims in order to provide them the necessary assistance.
During these trying times we call on the people to pray for peace and unity.
Bafil on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 8:22 am
Well, as for the post-Glorietta blast speech, we all know that she later back-tracked, saying it now looks like it was a gas explosion after all. I mean, that whole thing stinks to high heavens. I am no fan of conspiracy theories but I didn´t like the way the investigation has been handled and the fact that we still don´t know nearly a month after the explosion what exactly happened only makes me wonder if Senator Trillanes really knows something more about it as he claims.
d0d0ng on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 8:27 am
There is good news that viable alternatives are coming out as early to pose a challenge to 2010 presidential elections. Mar Roxas is a strong candidate under Liberal Party. Another strong candidate is Manny Villar under Nacionalist Party. We have the window of opportunity to see who will be able to address serious concerns raised against current President, dealing with special interest vs general public, how alliances will be created to advance their candidacy, and if they stand stronger or weaker or becoming another Erap or Gloria towards election.
hvrds on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 8:51 am
It was former Finance Secretary Estanislao who once said that unless we get rid of our feudal culture which has deep historical roots the elite of this country will never change and move away from their rent seeking ways.
How can anyone talk of democratic representation and elections in a country steeped in feudal structures.
Does everyone or a bulk of the people even know and are aware what feudalism is?
Why are so many people in the dark in this country about what the implications of this system entails.
d0d0ng on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 8:57 am
I read pulido’s complaint dismissal with the vote 43 to 1.
Nagkahiyaan pa! Nagtira pa nang isa. Asus. As if….
More funny is the new definition of betrayal of public trust – Davao version. NO betrayal since NO public trust to begin with. Patawa.
Bafil on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 9:03 am
MLQ3,
in your column you seem to be hinting at the likely involvement of the military in the Batasan blast. Do you believe it really could have been a revenge for what happened in Tipo-Tipo? And if so, how bizarre that a breakthough deal was reached between the govt and the MILF a mere day or two after. Or could that have been the ultimate clinch?
qwert on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 9:20 am
“I read pulido’s complaint dismissal with the vote 43 to 1.Nagkahiyaan pa! Nagtira pa nang isa. Asus. As if….”- dodong
___________________
dodong,
…yung isa, boto yun ng endorser, alangan namang siya ang nagendorse tapos di siya boboto para dito. “As if” na “as if” talaga…
ronin on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 9:40 am
“Mar Roxas is a strong candidate under Liberal Party. Another strong candidate is Manny Villar under Nacionalist Party.” – Dodong
Why would these two guys be ’strong’ candidates when their performance in their current positions have been lackluster? They’d only start acting up only because elections are just around the corner.
Any other viable candidates out there? Or would we be treated to the same stuff again? Ho-hum…
ronin on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 9:42 am
“The embalmers must have been a field day when dead hot female celebrities were in their custody!” — Dodong
Makes me cringe to think that rigor mortis set in while they were still at it…
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 10:00 am
“Makes me cringe to think that rigor mortis set in while they were still at it…”
rigor mortis only sets in at the joints. i don’t think it has any effect on, ah – you know. and what are lubrications doing?
a little imagination will horrify you some more.
of course not everyone will be so horny after hot, sexy, women even if they are dead. necrophilia is a pathological disease after all. normal people wouldn’t have sex with a dead body, no matter how hot it looks like.
but i suspect those who are necrophilic are attracted to such places as funeral parlors and such. which doesn’t make it far-fetched that your sexy female relatives’ bodies may have been desecrated by these psychos. makes you insist on guarding the body 24/7 doesn’t it?
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 10:25 am
Mar Roxas and Manny Villar – they’re both dead in the water to me ever since the fight for senate’s speakership finished. it exposed both as placing their own interests above national interest.
well, i won’t be voting for anyone in 2010 if all candidates i see are old faces. let them see my ballot with nothing written on it but all ABSTAIN.
btw, why aren’t abstain votes not tallied? that would be a strong statistic voters are rejecting all choices presented to them.
ronin on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 10:31 am
“…and what are lubrications doing?
a little imagination will horrify you some more.” – Devils
no more, please! am ready to throw up my breakfast.
“necrophilia is a pathological disease after all. normal people wouldn’t have sex with a dead body, no matter how hot it looks like.” – Devils
that’s comforting to know, hehe. at least, not all people who work in funeral parlors have that urge.
“but i suspect those who are necrophilic are attracted to such places as funeral parlors and such. which doesn’t make it far-fetched that your sexy female relatives’ bodies may have been desecrated by these psychos. makes you insist on guarding the body 24/7 doesn’t it?”
hhmmm…just a wild thought. perhaps the idea behind funeral wakes and vigils sprang from the unconscious fear that psychos might come and desecrate your dead.
perhaps mythological creatures like ghouls have a real source material, namely, necrophiliacs. but due to modesty and propriety, sex with a corpse was substituted by consumption of inner organs or body parts of the dead.
qwert on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 11:17 am
Halloween is over… Christmas is in the offing, the two of you…(just kidding)
ronin on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 11:29 am
Devils: Yep, N.O.T.A. Why waste your vote on someone deemed as the ‘lesser evil’, right? Aren’t there enough candidates worthy of being called ‘really good’?
qwerty: Oo nga, lunch break na pala. Baka masira ang appetite…;-)
qwert on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 11:31 am
This is the explosion that killed the already dead pulido impeachment complaint:
“Those who oppose the President do not trust her at all and there could be no betrayal of a trust that was never there,â€- Davao City Rep. Prospero Nograles (Inquirer report)
qwert on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 11:58 am
Another bomb:
“Let us put an end to this divisive issue. The complaint is dead because it has no substantial value,†-Albay Representative Edcel Lagman(same report)
Question: When did it die before or after the proceedings?
What value are we talking of, substantial or monetary?
grd on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 2:01 pm
maybe the “pag-asa ng bayan”, idol trillanes?
Proud to be Tsinoy on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 4:22 pm
You’re quote below is what I have talking about in the previous articles comments but people seem to think I want to have a dictatorship ….
hvrds :
It was former Finance Secretary Estanislao who once said that unless we get rid of our feudal culture which has deep historical roots the elite of this country will never change and move away from their rent seeking ways.
How can anyone talk of democratic representation and elections in a country steeped in feudal structures.
Does everyone or a bulk of the people even know and are aware what feudalism is?
Why are so many people in the dark in this country about what the implications of this system entails.
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 5:20 pm
“More funny is the new definition of betrayal of public trust – Davao version. NO betrayal since NO public trust to begin with.” – d0d0ng
That’s what we get when people try to defend the indefensible.
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 16th Nov 2007 5:29 pm
“Why would these two guys be ’strong’ candidates when their performance in their current positions have been lackluster?” – ronin
What would be a blockbuster performance for a senator? Legislation is a collegial effort. What do you expect of an individual senator?
d0d0ng on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 1:23 am
ronin on, “Any other viable candidates out there? Or would we be treated to the same stuff again? Ho-hum…”
You cannot hope on someone who is reluctant to face the public. A leader has to lead and come out in the open.
d0d0ng on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 2:15 am
“well, i won’t be voting for anyone in 2010 if all candidates i see are old faces. let them see my ballot with nothing written on it but all ABSTAIN.”
Not making a choice suggests that there is a lot to be changed in the current political setting. The best choice to pick one who can possibly do the change.
Bencard on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 3:23 am
abstain? why go through the charade? sayang ang pasahe o gas.
dodong,` how can there be a “best choice” when everybody can be bought? why do you think they are running for office, to be loved? are you referring to the “best” that money can buy?
d0d0ng on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 3:26 am
shaman on, “That’s what we get when people try to defend the indefensible.”
If we follow along that line, it applies catastrophically to opposition performance. The opposition with all the grievances against the administration have no solid united voice to carry out prioritized changes, even fielding a presidential contender that everybody can rally behind. The oppositions with clear picture of what is wrong with current government has no leader that can carry its voice and effect changes to correct what they experienced today.
d0d0ng on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 3:48 am
Bencard on, “how can there be a “best choice†when everybody can be bought? why do you think they are running for office, to be loved? are you referring to the “best†that money can buy?”
All senators are playing the same rules. No one is saint. But had the impeachment survived Congress, Gloria will not have the vote in the Senate unlike in Erap’s impeachment. The best choice is in the context when actual voting had taken place, there are senators who can stand by principle and impeach Gloria.
Bencard on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 4:17 am
yes, dodong, there can be. but by the same token, there are senators who will convict gma no matter what, proof or no proof, principle or no principle, if only because it would personally benefit them – never mind that it would, or would not, be good for the country to have noli, villar or jdv (in that order) to be at the helm.
d0d0ng on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 5:05 am
I agree it is difficult since intentions are not that transparent.
Shaman of Malilipot on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 8:53 am
No, d0d0ng, in this specific case, it applies to Prospero Nograles. You yourself said it was funny.
d0d0ng on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 9:12 am
“No, d0d0ng, in this specific case, it applies to Prospero Nograles. You yourself said it was funny.”
Sorry, my mistake.
Shaman of Malilipot on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 5:38 pm
ronin,
I’m still interested in your description of a blockbuster senator.
ronin on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 7:52 pm
shaman: are you referring to the ecleos? actually, the matriarch’s a congressman (er… -woman pala) and ruben junior once served as mayor oftheir hometown. he was busier with his guitar-playing, though, so his vice mayor had to take the slack.
ronin on Sat, 17th Nov 2007 8:08 pm
shaman: pls. disregard my post above. i missed your earlier post about ‘blockbuster senators’ (your term).
yes, legislators are supposed to make laws, but in the times we’re in, we need a giant of a candidate, figuratively speaking, for the 2010 polls. somebody who has the vision, the commitment, the guts–yes, that fire in the belly–and the sincerity to really lead our people out of the morass we’re in.
i used the word ‘lackluster’ because, frankly, these two guys are simply that. fine, they might have filed a good legislative bill or two, but other than that, what else?
they intend to run for the country’s highest post in 2010, but what can they offer? more of the same? they have to be more than just legislators if they aspire to the highest position in the land. they must prove they are made of sterner stuff.
that’s why the senate has 24 positions and malacanang only has one.
grd on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 1:16 am
but it’s perfectly legal, right bencard? and as long as it’s legal, you wouldn’t mind if the senators convict gloria, right? even if the senators have their own personal agendas and whether it would be good or bad for the country. the tyranny of numbers in a democracy.
grd on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 1:31 am
“
you have somebody in mind who has these qualities you mentioned? maybe you can share it with us. it might help convince me not to vote for mar roxas if there is someone out there better. somebody who is noble, dignified, incorruptible and say no skeletons in the closet.
Bencard on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 2:15 am
of course, grd, that would not be illegal. i even think it is not violative of the constitution. it is a political act and therefore, beyond the pale of justiciability. hence, the courts may not have the power to invalidate it.
that being said, what is valid may, nevertheless, not always be beneficial to the country. it would be the responsibility of the senators that made it happen, and ultimately, the people who voted for them.
ronin on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 9:12 am
“you have somebody in mind who has these qualities you mentioned?” — grd
none.
ronin on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 9:51 am
…at least, among the present crop of aspirants.
as it is said, hope springs eternal.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 11:01 am
“you have somebody in mind who has these qualities you mentioned?”
ME. can i count on you then to vote for me if I run, grd?
hehe. just kidding. i wonder why the hell they put an age requirement for electing presidents. when age obviously has no relationship with good governance. it may even be said that younger people are inclined to be more idealistic and therefore better able to lead reforms.
vic on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 11:11 am
maybe for president, but not for PM, not in our case, devil, our constitution states that anyone qualified to vote, (thats means 18 years or over of age) is qualified to run and the voters will decide, isn’t it what democracy all about???
grd on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 12:46 pm
“ME. can i count on you then to vote for me if I run, grd?â€
nah, i wont vote for you devils. sorry, but i’ll vote for cvj. he has better plans for the country. and i want the equalizer to be his press secretary.
the campaign period has just officially started.
p.s,
devils, sabi nga ng apo, “batang-bata ka pa at marami ka pang kailangang malaman at maintindihan sa mundo…†(if you know the rest of the lyrics. this answers also the question of vic why age does matter).
when you’re at the right age, we’ll talk again about your chances.
vic on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 1:25 pm
“devils, sabi nga ng apo, “batang-bata ka pa at marami ka pang kailangang malaman at maintindihan sa mundo…†(if you know the rest of the lyrics. this answers also the question of vic why age does matter).
when you’re at the right age, we’ll talk again about your chances.”
Very True grd, age does matter, both ways, good and bad. Experience so valuable as a person ages always could come handy, and the more experience a person is the more dangerous he or she could be. Nothing could be truer than the experience of the adults, mostly “seniors” that are running the wheels of the country as we could see.
Maybe the younger ones, may not know the “tricks” yet and could easily get caught, not like the older experienced ones that can “spins” their way like the tops with the grace of the Dancing with The Stars DIs (see how Abalos get away with that Broadband deal, and Garci with that Election Scandals)and can conspire better than the Mafiosos.. I rather go with the Young and still the innocent…and take my chances..I will vote for devil..but first I will re-apply for my citizenship back if he runs…
Shaman of Malilipot on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 1:44 pm
ronin,
But, where do we look for your “giant of a candidate”? What position would he/she be in right now? He/She would now be a “giant” of a what? Anybody in mind?
Unfortunately, there is no on-the-job training for a President. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
vic on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 2:11 pm
Got this letter from my PM and also as the Leader of the Party of which I am a member and I support and here I highlights some of his “reports” (he is still very young, and people doubt that at his age and inexperience, he may not be fit to be a PM, but here judge for yourself) and what a party system plus a carefully chosen leader can do for good governance for ALL…
Dear Mr. Vic …..,
I would like to thank you for the support you have given our Party over the past year.
It’s no exaggeration to say that our success as a party and government depends on the commitment and generosity of people like you.
Unlike the Liberals, we can’t rely on established vested interests. And unlike the NDP, we can’t rely on noisy vocal interests.
Instead, we rely on the support of tens of thousands of ordinary Canadians – everyone from workers to small business owners to retirees – to keep our Party strong and competitive.
The reality of the minority Parliament is that there could be an election at any time. That’s why I am asking our top campaign workers to re-chart our campaign plan for the next election. And it’s why I’ve asked our candidates to get started on the hustings.
The Conservative Party is the people’s party. And the Conservative Government is the people’s government.
That’s why we’ve put the aspirations of families and taxpayers at the heart of government decision-making.
We’re a party and a government firmly on the side of those who work hard and play by the rules. And we’re a government that keeps the promises it makes.
We promised accountability and delivered the Federal Accountability Act, the most sweeping anti-corruption law in Canada’s history.
We kept our word and delivered nearly $40 billion in tax relief, including a cut to the GST.
As promised, we introduced tough new crime laws to combat guns, drugs and gangs and keep our communities safe.
We promised direct support for families and delivered a $ 1,200 a year child benefit.
And we promised to rebuild the Canadian Forces and to restore Canada’s place in the world. Again, we delivered.
We’re proud of our record in government. But we want to keep building. Keep moving forward.
But Stephane Dion has other ideas. He wants to get back to power “as soon as possible”.
Friends, we can’t let Canada go back. Back to wild spending. Back to broken promises. Back to the same gang that gave us the sponsorship scandal.
That’s why I’m asking for your support today.
Turning Canada around and restoring public confidence has not been easy. But, it would have been impossible if it had not been for the encouragement and generous support of concerned Canadians like you.
Elections are expensive: from advertising to the war room to renting campaign planes and buses. Your generous contribution of $50, $75 or $100 will be very much appreciated.
The Liberals have their vested interests. The NDP have their vocal interests. We need the support of ordinary hard-working Canadians like you to help us build a stronger, safer, better Canada – for all of us.
That is why I am turning to you today for a generous contribution. I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Rt. Hon. Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P.
Prime Minister of Canada
PS.: The enclosed calendar is a way for the leadership of our Party to say thank you for all of your loyal support.
I also personally want to say how much your support means to me as we work to provide Canadians with the quality of government and national leadership that every Canadian family deserves.
P.P.S.: Please use the enclosed reply form and envelope. There is space on the form if you would like to send a comment or two to me. Thank you again for your friendship and help.
vic on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 2:20 pm
And in the comment box, I request the PM to reduce the processing fees for prospective immigrants and also to gradually reduce the “show money” to enable qualified but financially hardup to qualify…and also to ask the provincial governments to activate the benefits earlier than the 3 months of residency as required at present…
grd on Sun, 18th Nov 2007 2:56 pm
“I rather go with the Young and still the innocent…and take my chances..I will vote for devil..but first I will re-apply for my citizenship back if he runs…†vic
it’s good for a parliamentary system of govt where you can easily change the pm if he fucks-up. but for our system of govt where the president can only be changed after 6 years, that’s too much of a risk as what’s happening now. the reason why some politicians did not back up lacson in the last election is because they are saying (as per john osmena) he’s too young yet (experience wise) to run the country. and so they put fpj in the picture that lessened the chances of lacson. of course, i doubted that it’s the real reason. it’s more of envy i think. i believe lacson with his experience was/is already ripe for the presidency. who knows what would have happened if pfg did not enter the picture. we could have avoided this dire situation we’re in now. so it’s not only gloria who fucked-up the country, erap and the opposition led by angara share the responsibility too.
ronin on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 12:07 am
“But, where do we look for your “giant of a candidateâ€? What position would he/she be in right now? He/She would now be a “giant†of a what? Anybody in mind?
Unfortunately, there is no on-the-job training for a President. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.”
to borrow the title of a short story, ‘a good man [or even woman] is hard to find.’
but i’m not losing hope, shaman. among 60 million plus Filipinos, one of them would certainly be the one. let’s keep on looking at the other politicians, bureaucrats, etc. (i know that’s tough); better yet, let’s even cast the net wider and search in other sectors for that leader who will truly lead us.
Bencard on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 9:48 am
lacson? experience in what? do you really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel? how could you be sure fpj’s voters would have voted for panfilo?
Shaman of Malilipot on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 10:53 am
“but i’m not losing hope, shaman. among 60 million plus Filipinos, one of them would certainly be the one. let’s keep on looking at the other politicians, bureaucrats, etc. (i know that’s tough); better yet, let’s even cast the net wider and search in other sectors for that leader who will truly lead us.”
ronin, frankly, I don’t know how you propose to conduct your search realistically. Ano ba talaga ang process na nasa isip mo? Can you really identify the “right” candidate when you see him/her? Granted you found the “right” candidate, how sure are you he/she would be willing to run for President?
Here’s the present reality:
In our political system, candidates are chosen by political parties from among their members. It is very rare, if ever, that parties look outside of their memberships for candidates. Of course, there are those who run as independents. But the dynamics of our system stack the odds against independent candidates.
Please flesh out your idea because I’m frustrated with the current system. You might have a better alternative that would really work.
Shaman of Malilipot on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 11:14 am
Personally, I don’t believe in choosing a presidential candidate based on experience. The President’s job is so unique and so widely encompassing that no other job can really prepare anybody for it.
Rather than experience, I look at the person’s character to see if he/she has integrity. Just give me a person with intergrity and I don’t care if he/she has a load of other faults.
cvj on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 11:25 am
On qualities for President/Vice-President:
1. Courage – has s/he spoken truth to power when it was inconvenient to do so?
2. Integrity – where there situations in which that candidate’s honesty was tested and did he react in a way that would prove s/he can resist temptation?
3. Intelligence
4. Timing – is s/he the right person at this stage of our history?
With the above critera, off the top of my head, my choices are:
President – Antonio Trillanes IV
Vice-President – Adel Tamano
ronin on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 12:20 pm
“In our political system, candidates are chosen by political parties from among their members. It is very rare, if ever, that parties look outside of their memberships for candidates. Of course, there are those who run as independents. But the dynamics of our system stack the odds against independent candidates.” – shaman
which only perpetuates trapos and elitist values, right? if we’re canvassing politicians good enough for the highest position in the land, then let’s look for the mustangs, those who don’t give a damn about party politics (and their own a**es) but rather follow their own counsel on what’s good for their constituents. he/she might be a member of a party yet knows there’s more to national leadership than just party politics.
“Rather than experience, I look at the person’s character to see if he/she has integrity. Just give me a person with intergrity and I don’t care if he/she has a load of other faults.” – shaman
That’s one good place to start, shaman. A morally upright leader is as rare as a $2 coin nowadays. Some managerial experience in either the public or private sector would also help.
“Please flesh out your idea because I’m frustrated with the current system.” -shaman
I’m about to raise my hands too; seems hopeless, right? I am fleshing out this idea.
“You might have a better alternative that would really work.” – shaman
I hope so. But please don’t expect me to give out hard-and-fast rules or a complete recipe. I was reading MLQ3’s column today in the Inquirer online and I was struck by the coincidence. Let me quote:
“…the students themselves took pains to insist they weren’t apathetic, but had yet to find people they could believe in. One plaintively asked, after my talk, “Tell us, who should we believe?†I reminded her of the substance of my talk: engage in learning to think critically, in relishing what Teodoro M. Locsin said was the necessity of exercising the freedom to study, to think, and only then, express one’s self—and observe the goings-on around them. Only then, I told her, will you know whom to believe, and best of all, you would then be prepared to take on the responsibilities of a creative, and not destructive, new kind of leadership.”
In short, no spoonfeeding from somebody else.
For me, right now, I’m depending on the lessons of history and a moral compass (and a BS detector, I may add) in looking for that leader.
“Granted you found the “right†candidate, how sure are you he/she would be willing to run for President?” – shaman
then it would simply be tragic if he/she refuses to run.
vic on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 1:39 pm
The search for the Great Leader or a leader of a great party is akin to Don Quixote’s quest.
For how long the President Term is? Six Years? Would that one single leader be able to transform the whole institution, so weakened by years of unchecked intrusions and leave it as a strong (my theme the True North Strong and Free, whoever a leader is) and beyond destruction by successive leadership? It is really hard to figure where to start, but the best is start with eachself.
The best should have been from the top, the leadership, as the have the most influence among the masses, but if we look at the leadership, they are not the role model.
But I think, the whole system should be looked at, the remnants of the feudal system, (yes sir, we are still a country of warlord, master and serf), but that could be tolerated, if the distribution of the country resources is somehow shared fairly. How? Start with this question? Is everyone, paying their right due? And all these dues go to where they’re intended for? Taxes in all forms, should go back to the people for developments, “moving forward†instead of just the few and to prepare the next generation to be able to handle the ever complicating social and fiscal issues, and that is the Education and Health and that too should be taken care NOW…
And as far as I can see, the country does not even have a comprehensive Population Control Program as it is one of the biggest social issue, no matter who sits in Malacanang, ad hocs programs would not just fit in the square, it should be a long-term, comprehensive, fully detailed with goals and financing and the Source, (not just another dream). A step at a time and pretty soon things will just fit in…
ronin, can’t help but this line catches my attention so much. The $2 is not rare, actually it is very popular in our currency, and we call it a tooney, after our $1, known as a loonie, (after the Loon,a bird reflected on the flip side of the coin opposite the image of the Queen)and the tooney has the image of the Polar Bear opposite the Queen. It’s only slightly bigger than the loonie and very popular for use in the vending machines and just perfect for a stop at starbucks or tim hortons coffee(with change of course, coffee not that expensive here). Also the Term Loonie is now used to denote the Canadian dollar.
ronin on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 2:52 pm
well, vic, if only good leaders here in the philippines were as commonplace as your $2 coins there, then so much the better.
p.s. i’ll skip on the ‘loonie’ bit though; we’ve got a lot of trapos like that around here, hehehe.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 3:14 pm
lols. relying on a BS detector…
that made me laugh. if I switched my BS detector on, it’d never stop squeaking everytime I watch the news.
agree with Manolo too. when people asks, whom should we choose/believe in?
it’s up to you. learn to think critically. and then, you’d know the answer to that question yourself.
ronin on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 3:20 pm
“if I switched my BS detector on, it’d never stop squeaking everytime I watch the news.” – devilsadvc8
mine needs a replacement already. and to think i just bought it yesterday.
ronin on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 3:22 pm
…for the sheer amount of trash they are dumping on us everyday, these trapos should allocate a budget for bs detectors for the whole populace…
vic on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 4:20 pm
“for the sheer amount of trash they are dumping on us everyday, these trapos should allocate a budget for bs detectors for the whole populace…”
Again, from a multi-millions loan from China? Calling Abalos…
ronin on Mon, 19th Nov 2007 4:40 pm
shaman, et al:
i just read randy david’s column entitled “the crisis of cash politics” posted in the nov. 17, 2007 issue of inquirer online.
with all due respect to MLQ3 (since this is his blog), i’m posting some passages which i find relevant in our discussion:
“In the early years of the nation’s politics, the top officials of the land commanded enough awe and respect to be able to whip their followers into line without having to purchase their loyalty. This was when moral ascendancy was a key ingredient of political legitimacy, and moral power was assiduously protected against erosion. So much has changed in the succeeding years.”
“The concern with one’s honor, integrity and trustworthiness, which characterized the behavior of our early politicians, has been replaced by an almost exclusive fixation with political capital—party machinery, funds, media popularity and political networks.”
“A distrust rating of 46 percent, Pulse Asia’s most recent finding for President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo would have compelled a Manuel Roxas, an Elpidio Quirino, a Ramon Magsaysay or a Carlos Garcia to consider stepping down from the presidency. For trust, more than solid performance, lies at the heart of the Filipino public’s valuation of their political leaders. When this is low, nothing that a president reports about the state of the country merits any attention.”
Amen.
grd on Tue, 20th Nov 2007 5:42 am
bencard, i’m talking about his experience as a leader having once ran a big organization, a person who can curb out graft and corruption and someone who can implement peace and order with a no nonsense approach. in such a short period that he was the police chief, he was slowly able to reform the police force. yung mga malalaki ang tiyan na mga heneral na pagolf-golf lang ay biglang nagulantang at narelieve sa puwesto ng pumasok na si lacson. yung mga kotong cops lalo na sa mga pampublikong sasakyan diyan sa metro manila (it has been there since time immemorial) ay natigil. and of course stopping the kidnappings the reason why he has the full support of the chinese community. to me that’s enough for him to qualify. but if you’re talking about running the economy, i know you have only one person in mind. but then again, if you have heard about the mayor of davao, how he runs the city and how it continuously flourishing with the people loving his style, then i would give lacson a big chance.
lacson was the frontrunner leading to the 2004 election before fpj and his backers (lead by erap) mess it up. he was a big threat to gloria then the reason why her dirty tricks department with the help of isaf under corpus tried everything they can to discredit him (they did it too to the late senator roco when he was with deped) . corpus and doj chief gonzales accused lacson of all the crimes they can throw at him like his alleged hidden wealth in the US, brought mawanay & rosebud to pin down lacson on drugs & kidnappings but at the end, the only case they can throw at him is the old rehashed kuratong baleleng case.
as for those fpj votes, there’s no doubt in my mind that those would have gone to lacson too coming from erap’s supporters. even gloria’s votes would have been reduced had the opposition fielded only one candidate. the INC before supporting gloria tried to talk out lacson and fpg into agreeing that only one of them should run and the other as vp. but as everyone knows, the negotiation failed and this gave gloria the advantage she needed (INC only supports a candidate with a bigger chance of winning and a divided opposition is not a good choice). and the result?
vic on Tue, 20th Nov 2007 10:14 am
grd, going back to my comment a little up, and referring back to how good Lacson was during his stint as the Police Chief of Manila, my point is, was his tenure as chief made a lasting legacy to the Police Institution that will remain after he leaves?
We can have the Greatest leader of the Day, but the Institution remains the same, the system stay as they are, the change will last as the day the leader term ends. That is why I always advocate re-examining the whole structure, including the Accountability, defining the power, roles and responsibilities clearly between the co-equal branches of government, and most importantly, the ownership of Property. The Philippines is a small “Pie” for more than 80 millions and counting, and only a small percentage of oligarchs own vast property, not by their own sweat, but mostly by the system that was forcefully imposed on the country by successive masters. And the vast majority of the masses remain “slaves” (modern day slavery), whether we like it or not as they are as helpless…
grd on Tue, 20th Nov 2007 4:41 pm
vic, as we all know, the term of lacson was cut short with the departure of erap. those big bellied generals who were out during his term wasted no time in claiming their spots and going back to their old ways. those reforms (systematically and physically) that were instituted were set aside. kotong is back. were can you find a shabu tiangge just a few yards away from a police precinct & municipal hall? everyone was rewarded for abandoning erap. so, you tell me how will his legacy last. that is always the problem. lack of sustainability. no support from the succeeding administration.
identifying what ails the country, the feeling of helplessness, those system changes and reforms that you mentioned, everyone here knows about that (most are frustrated too with the current system). the question is, how and who can implement those changes. one commenter here even detailed the qualities of the leader we need but he has no idea where and how we can find that guy. it’s easier said than done.
but good for you you’re not a “filipino†anymore. you don’t have to live through what the average filipino has to bear with all these dirty politics and now the effect of this “improve†economy. you can talk all the time the good things about your adopted country (it has been laid down before you by people who suffered too during their time so that you and the others will enjoy what you have now) and the opposite of what we have, you can state and enumerate all your advocacies and all the solutions you want on how to change and make this country better and you’ll say you feel too for those poor filipinos but at the end of the day all these talks are just plain rhetoric and wont really matter to people who are in power and wont help a tiny bit this country you once call your native land and nothing you can do about it. you don’t even have the right to choose/vote for a “good†leader. unless of course you decide to avail that dual citizenship and want to make a difference. but i understand you’re still waiting for devils to run for president before you make up your mind.
vic on Tue, 20th Nov 2007 10:07 pm
grd, contrary to your belief that this country has been laid out by those people before us, we as the generation of the day are also doing what was laid out and keep improving on them, otherwise it will revert back to where we started, where racism was rampant, inequality was commonplace and discrimination were everywhere. I experienced those things and they are still going on. To be complacent is abandoning our duties.
And also even I may or may not re-apply for my citizenship back, I also believe that my regular remittances (my brother and his wife need an enormous sum just for maintenance medication regularly) have somehow help the country’s economy and some of those monies go to taxes too (evat and other taxes) and I don’t even get benefits from them. So it’s not just plain talk and rhetoric as you suggest and multiply that by five since I have five other siblings here doing the same.
So to underestimate what the expats can do, like rego, bencard,harv and the rest even physically we can not do anything, as mostly those that are physically present just as helpless, then we might be in some way can not do any Harm at all, unlike those that are there, they are the ones that are causing the harms….
kulit on Wed, 21st Nov 2007 12:55 am
e kayong mga pinoy expats who have sworn allegiance to another country — why don’t you reserve your ideas and suggestions to your newly adopted countries where they belong. you’re all hypocrites really. until you have sworn allegiance again to the republic of the philippines then saka kayo magdakdak
vic on Wed, 21st Nov 2007 10:08 am
kulit, we had not renounced our allegiance to the Philippines at anytime. It was the law that automatically took our citizenship, and in a democracy it is for us to chose if we agree if that law was fair or not, and it was not. Now that the law was finally repaired, (somebody finally come to their senses) it is still for us to decide if we believe that somebody in the future will not tinker with it again..meantime we still are free to say our two cents, until someone forcefully force us not to.
kulit on Wed, 21st Nov 2007 8:33 pm
baloney, baloney — so the law took away your citizenship? which law?? or did you not freely choose to become the citizen of another country? now what kind of excuse is that after freely renouncing your Filipino citizenship? you’re free to say your piece, so am i. but cut the crap, first of all you’re no longer a Filipino citizen! it’s like disowning your own family legally and then saying, oh my, i still care and love my family. but that’s all right really — what’s terribly hypocritical is that you act as if you have the right to criticize the country and put up ideas how it should be ran. have some decency or err, as we filipinos, call it, have some delicadeza people.
vic on Wed, 21st Nov 2007 10:02 pm
kulit, if you go back before the introduction of the dual citizenship, the Philippines law states that any Natural Born Filipino who become a citizen of another country losses his birth citizenship and after that introduction of the law, the Philippine respects Dual Citizenships (in reciprocity with the other country). But most countries including the U.S.A. and Canada mainstain that its citizens can never lose its citizenship unless by renouncing, or by material fraud in acquisition, no matter how many other citizenship they acauired.
That is the philosophy beyond the reason that other than technicality I never loss my being a Filipino. My citizenship maybe and my vote, but to question my allegiance and my loyalty, it is beyond anyone’s, before questioning his or her own. And your answer is my answer…
kulit on Wed, 21st Nov 2007 11:05 pm
you renounced your filipino citizenship…. what does that say about your loyalty and allegiance??????? besides, dual citizenship is for two-timers, introduced by the powers that be here — those who want to have their cake and eat it too. you cannot serve two masters at the same time. so why don’t you put up and walk your talk? renounce your us/american citizenship and be a filipino citizen again? naaaa, i bet you won’t — that’s too risky for you i suppose? easier to be miles away whale yakking what’s suppose to be good for poor old Filipinas
cvj on Wed, 21st Nov 2007 11:57 pm
Vic’s accounts of politics and governance in Canada are valuable benchmarks that enrich our discourse.
d0d0ng on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 12:20 am
kulit on, “you renounced your filipino citizenship…. what does that say about your loyalty and allegiance??????? besides, dual citizenship is for two-timers, introduced by the powers that be here — those who want to have their cake and eat it too. you cannot serve two masters at the same time. so why don’t you put up and walk your talk? renounce your us/american citizenship and be a filipino citizen again? naaaa, i bet you won’t — that’s too risky for you i suppose? easier to be miles away whale yakking what’s suppose to be good for poor old Filipinas”
Kulit, you sounds envious of dual citizens, then work harder. Your being a selfrighteous Filipino is downright laughable. Tell me what have you contributed to your country worth mentioning that you can convince us what to do. Can you please walk your talk on how you serve your country?
Unlike you, dual citizens pay multiple taxes to begin with, so we pay Philippine taxes. We send money back home to support education, send funds for home building and improvement, invest in small business, support family financially which encourage consumption (GDP) and stimulate local production (which this government is exploiting for its credit). In 2006, we send P12.8 billion in remittances. 56.4% of that was from North America (US and Canada). The amount is even bigger this year to reach P14 billion.
http://www.bsp.gov.ph/statistics/spei_pub/tab11.pdf
You are right, we are miles away. We are one of the major drivers of Philippine economy why its currency is going strong. Think before you criticize us because it will fall flat into your own face.
grd on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 4:32 am
i miss the action but kulit perfectly filled-in for me.
vic, i should have ask you, was it a shotgun wedding or marriage of convenience? but the way i read your comments here, it’s very clear where your loyalty is. kulit is right, you cannot serve two masters at the same time; for you will love the one and hate the other.
i see, the country owes you for fulfilling that obligation to your brother. you believe that gives you the right… even if you may or may not apply for your citizenship back. very convenient.
vic, to put it simply, i really don’t care what and how you do it there in canada. i don’t see it as a solution. to me, you’re simply showing-off; how good and perfect life is in your adopted country compared to the flawed system in the phils quite an irritant to me. as for your criticism, it’s not a question of who’s doing the harm, it’s a matter of delicadeza as what kulit said. so please, save your rhetoric and cut the crap.
and that goes to you too cvj. just because vic here, is a constant critic of malacanang, what he/she does is acceptable to you (just like that nasty japayuki in another space). but i doubt you’ll say the same to the likes of bencard, dodong, rego and the others here if they start comparing the phils to the US. “valuable benchmarks that enrich our discourse” my foot. you’re a hypocrite too.
d0d0ng on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 5:42 am
“In 2006, we send P12.8 billion in remittances. 56.4% of that was from North America (US and Canada). The amount is even bigger this year to reach P14 billion.”
Correction, everything in USD.
cvj on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 8:59 am
grd, xenophobia won’t do us any good as a people. The Filipino-diaspora is a window to the outside world so we have to take advantage of their inputs. We are free to take (or reject) their advice on their merits (or lack of it).
vic on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 9:50 am
grd, as far as I know, Canada and the Philippines have a very friendly diplomatic relations, other than some of its citizens do not agree with each others, Canada is helping the Philippines in a lot of ways by way of our government. And to emphasize everyone in this country is an expat one way or the other, and so far no other country or citizen question where our loyalty lies and that is both our birth country and our adopted country unless both are at war with each other and that will be the test. so far we are not. only us here in the forum and only a tit for tat type.
And we have nothing to show off, other than the one we are criticizing, the Corruptions and the defects in governance as we see them and they are correctable and also we have hundreds of relatives left in the country who are in the same predicament and now you are telling us that we are not affected?
We also disagree with each other opinions here, but to get personal and questioning our worth just because we happen to be not stepping in the same piece of land is not very nice for people who want their opinions respected too.
And talking about delicadeza or pride… we all have them, just practising them is lacking, don’t you think so?, so let’s start with it…
kulit on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 1:25 pm
dodong,
you cannot quantify the duties of citizenship by money alone… and no, i am not envious of you expat folks, lols, lols. what a cheap shot that is, the jealousy/money card. and yes i pay my taxes and i work my ass off just because i like to work hard — how’s that for your edification? i had opportunities to go work abroad for a multinational — turned them down. but see here’s the deal — just because i chose not to, does not mean i am in any way better as a filipino than most of my countrymen(those who are contract workers) who had to work abroad — i had the luxury of choice which many of them didn’t have. what about you, did you think of your choices, your motivations?
and vic,
so the question of loyalty hit you personally? damn man, don’t you think it hits us personally when people, ex-filipinos like you who chose to turn back on our country mouth ideas as if we should listen to you and act as if we owe you? the filipino nation does not owe you anything, it’s the other way around, if you would take citizenship seriously. but man, it’s just the attitude that’s irritating as grd wrote ….if you really like doing it, help out, silently, sincerely… and i didn’t mean you personally — just those ex-filipinos who display the aforementioned attitude..
kulit on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 2:48 pm
cvj, point taken, and i am not being xeonophobic, that’s what i’m actually doing, considering the merits of what they say. when you consider that, they are living, breathing the socio-economic-cultural environment of another country and legally too — now, that’s a red flag and we should draw the line, to how far or the extent they could dip their fingers in our affairs. and no, one should not wait for a war before the question of loyalty be brought up. the brain drain phenomenon is not just a matter of economics, but a cultural one, a matter of values. when the going gets tough, how should one act towards one’s country, the land of your birth, one which poor ole rizal died for in bagumbayan? this i address to the middle/upper classes, the educated, the ones who have the luxury of choice.
cvj on Thu, 22nd Nov 2007 7:14 pm
Kulit, two years ago in this blog, i got into an exchange with Dodong above on the issue of the Florida ‘hanging chads’. By way of retort, he told me:
I didn’t consider his objection valid because it focused on the speaker, i.e. me in my capacity as a Filipino (i.e. an outsider) who presumably has no right to comment on matters involving the USA more so because, according to him, i “can’t even resolve [our] own local leadership“. Rather than address the argument, he chose to focus on the person making the argument, which is the defining characteristic of ad hominem attacks.
In the same manner, the fact that Vic, D0d0ng, Bencard, Rego are expats does not automatically take anything away from what they say. Rather than focusing on the messengers, we should focus on the message(s). Is the message compelling? Is it the truth? Is it well-reasoned? If the answers are ‘yes’, then the identity of the writer and even their tone of delivery should not matter.
That is not to say that context should be disregarded. The fact that you are in the Philippines directly experiencing events while they are not does carry weight (which is the point that manuelbuencamino has tried to convey to Bencard). The good thing about Vic’s approach is that he does not ignore context. He conveys his first hand experiences in Canadian governance as an example of best practices for us to observe and hopefully replicate.
grd on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 3:12 am
there, another affirmation of the “utang na loob†ng pilipinas sa mga taong tulad ni dodong. are you speaking now on behalf of all the ofw’s around the world? but if i remember it right, not so long ago in one of the discourses here you’re belittling the contributions of the ofws’ as a major factor in boosting the phil economy saying ofws’ spend most of their incomes abroad and whatever remains or the savings are the monies being sent to the phils (and i wrote, it must be true for immigrants specially those in the US but not for ofw’s working in other countries like the middle-east where basic salaries are mostly sent and spent home). some kind of a double talk huh?
but are you reading the data correctly for saying that you people (North Americans) sent 56.4% of the total remittances last year? or you deliberately left out the footnote which says:
grd on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 3:17 am
sorry, something’s went wrong with my earlier post. here’s the remaining part:
but are you reading the data correctly for saying that you people (North Americans) sent 56.4% of the total remittances last year? or you deliberately left out the footnote which says:
straighten out your facts and don’t try to put a spin on it. it has been clarified already that remittances from other countries specially those in the middle-east are mostly coursed through the US. so there’s no truth to what you’re saying that major remittances are coming from North America.
grd on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 3:37 am
cvj,
it’s not about being xenophobic (i would have been out of job a long time ago if i am). as what i and kulit have been saying here, and to reiterate what he just wrote;
if you’re truly is a modern day rizal as one commenter here suggests, then you should know what we really meant here. if someone’s sincere, then he should not be affected personally.
if you can practice what you preach, i will become one of your disciples.
cvj on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 10:12 am
grd, how can someone ‘help out’ silently in a blog?
ronin on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 11:38 am
“grd, how can someone ‘help out’ silently in a blog?” – cvj
by remaining as a lurker?
cvj on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 12:37 pm
Then Vic and the other Filipino expats can also ask you to practice what you preach. But if everybody did that, where would that get us?
You of all people know first hand how it is to be silenced so why do you want to do unto others what you did not want to be done to you?
ronin on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 12:57 pm
hey, chill out, cvj. i’m just horsing around.
i’m a martial law baby, so i know how it is being suppressed.
anyway, my take here is this: if these guys who have ‘changed’ nationalities offer their two cents in this forum, then let them. in the first place, this is a free country. second, this is not our blog, it’s manolo’s, right? we’re all guests here and must behave accordingly. third, if some posters here are irritated by these ‘ex-filipinos’ attitude (as what kulit said), then the answer would be to offer a better argument and not get dragged by all these name-calling, holier-than-thou, feeling superior cards, right?
peace.
kulit on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 1:11 pm
hope you’re not being deliberately daft cvj, “silence” here means being silent on what should be kept to oneself — i.e. i send my money home to my relatives, therefore the country owes me or it gives me the right to be high and mighty, and the fact that I have renounced my filpino citizenship should be ignored. it’s like charity, if one is sincere, then there’s no point of announcing one’s deed, unless one wants to personally profit from it.
grd on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 1:34 pm
cvj, hilo ka na ba? obviously, i’m no ronin.
obvious ba kung ano ang ibig naming sabihin ni kulit? try figure it out jose rizal.
just one more thing, what do you mean by “help out” in a blog? oh, yes, i remember you said it before, blogging is a patriotic act.
and again, if i may reiterate, practice what you preach.
grd on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 3:18 pm
cvj, if you think i’m trying to get personal with vic or naykika here, you’re wrong. i know him way back in another space and i even defended him when others start criticizing his obvious biases. but i’m one who calls a spade a spade just like in this case.
i’m not trying to suppress anyone. i’m a person who appreciates a good deed and a good argument whenever i see or read one regardless of one person’s political leaning but i wont hesitate to criticize either if i see it fit even if the person and i are on the same side of the fence. i don’t argue just for the sake of arguing. and i’m one who easily accept my mistake if i’m proven wrong. hindi ako namimilosopo just for the sake of winning an argument.
when i say, practice what you preach, it’s all in reference to your statement below.
for you to give that advise and be heard, you have to be consistent. and try not to be judgmental. this is in reference to your conclusion that ronin and i are one and the same. i don’t believe that was not deliberate considering a person of your intellect.
ronin on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 4:38 pm
“this is in reference to your (cvj’s) conclusion that ronin and i are one and the same.” – grd
hey, i’m flattered to be mistaken with another poster here, but for the record, i’m definitely not grd…nor any other person in this forum/blog.
there is only one ronin.
cvj on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 5:33 pm
grd, ronin, sorry guys grd is right, nahilo ako, the mix up was not deliberate. i was waiting for grd’s response and i shot from the hip. my apologies.
Yeah, i remember it was Manolo who invited Vic for some inputs on the Canadian system of government.
vic on Fri, 23rd Nov 2007 10:35 pm
“send my money home to my relatives, therefore the country owes me or it gives me the right to be high and mighty, and the fact that I have renounced my filpino citizenship should be ignored. it’s like charity, if one is sincere, then there’s no point of announcing one’s deed, unless one wants to personally profit from it.” kulit said..
kulit, it was you who suggested that we have nothing to do with the country anymore and I gave you one reason that by sending remitance home is one way I help the country indirectly by helping my relatives and it doesn’t make me high and mighty and so does the other 8 to 10 millions other Filipinos sending remittances home. I don’t expect anything from my country, not even from my adopted country, so to suggest that the Philippines owes me something is just your own idea to bolster your argument. And again I never renounced my Filipino citizenship, as I also mentioned that Canada respects multiple citizenships. now don’t try to mix up everything…and intolerance of others because it irritates others, then what can you suggest about PGMA when she too not only irritates a lot but drives many to the mountains and thousands out of the country?
kulit on Sat, 24th Nov 2007 1:27 pm
vic,
“And also even I may or may not re-apply for my citizenship back, I also believe that my regular remittances (my brother and his wife need an enormous sum just for maintenance medication regularly) have somehow help the country’s economy and some of those monies go to taxes too (evat and other taxes) and I don’t even get benefits from them.”
what does the “benefits” there imply? if you want to get benefits, then the option is to become a filipino citizen again. and what about the potshot of dodong regarding his contribution to the philippine economy. i have a niece and a nephew who study in England and sister and my brother-law send them money regularly — does that imply that uk owes them politically because the money goes to the british economy?
you have to differentiate, the 8 to 10 million filipinos are mostly overseas contract workers (domestic helpers, seamen, construction workers, some professionals), not permanent immigrants like you who took another nationality. these people if they want to demand from the government, have every right to do so and are not out of line. now who’s mixing things up?
and i didn’t say that you don’t have anything to do with the country again. again you’re taking it personally, as i said it’s not you, it’s the attitude…
hoho, about gma — now, that’s another topic altogether, and believe me, we are on the same side there, as one of the reasons why pinoys are flocking to embassies — but now, that’s another context altogether
hey appreciate it man, we really do, that you are still concerned with the philippines, as a nation, as a country and not just because of your relatives. i just want to point out what needs to be pointed out when a certain line got crossed.
kulit on Sat, 24th Nov 2007 1:56 pm
and vic,
pardon man if you got offended with some of my earlier remarks. i got offended too that i couldn’t help but react. as ronin pointed out, we are guests here of manolo quezon, and no need for “personalan”. besides if you knew me personally, you’d find me the most liberal bloke on this side of the planet.
i rest my case.
vic on Sat, 24th Nov 2007 9:48 pm
kulit, no harm done man. that’s the beauty of this type of forum, we can air our differences and in the end we all can sort them all out. It is but natural that sometimes each of us will go overboard, as we noticed that not only a few times that every single one of us here locked horns with one another. We can only thanks our host, MLQ 3 for all his patience and tolerance for all our indulgence. I too rest my case and have a nice weekend to all as I have a very good reason to celebrate mine…
grd on Sun, 25th Nov 2007 4:42 am
kudos to kulit and vic. my hat’s off to you both for showing humility here. i’m always humbled w/ such exemplary act. i too would like to apologize to vic/naykika for the heated exchange. believe me, it’s nothing personal (i’ve let the matter rest earlier). and as kulit wrote, we’re on the same side when talking of one person.
my apologies to cvj as well for my “enthusiasmâ€.