Escalation
Before we get to the blast at the Batasan Pambansa, let’s set the scene, as it was, yesterday, prior to the explosion.
The way Amando Doronila sees it, Political scandals undermining the economy, and foreign observers, too, see it the same way, as shown by this snippet:
Frederic Neumann wrote in a commentary: “We view the recent political scandals as severely undermining the President’s ability to persuade the Congress to pass new policy initiatives to advance structural reforms … The scandals will make it harder for the President to advance a new wave of policy reforms, especially relating to improving the underlying public finance sector finances.â€Â
Neumann noted that the government had made a commitment to wipe out its budget deficits and was closing in on its full-year deficit target of P63 billlion, with the help of privatization proceeds, but its fiscal performance was “less impressive,†suggesting that more reforms were needed.
Doronila seems to have a view that’s very different from the triumphalist tones of the President herself, who seems to be crowing that her economic work is done. In Arroyo shifts focus from economic to political reforms, she is quoted as having said,
Now that we have straightened out the economy, it is time to push for political reforms. Let us reduce conflict, fight corruption, and put the welfare of the ordinary Filipino first,†Arroyo said.
But there’s something ironic in a political animal bellowing about being a beast (though a very well-educated ones with academic credentials) if it was funny-ha-ha to have the Speaker thundering on about a “moral revolution,” isn’t it funny-hee-hee, now that Arroyo blames politics for causing suicide, murder:
Arroyo called on her critics anew to focus on promoting development, this time blaming politics for the deaths of Marianette Amper, the 12-year-old girl who committed suicide in Davao due to poverty, and Alioden Dalaig, the poll official gunned down last Saturday.
“Many Filipinos are experiencing poverty since some of the country’s leaders are preoccupied with their self-interests rather than the welfare of the nation.
“On the other hand, there are politicians and groups who have no heart and conscience and are ready to use violence to attain their ambitions,” she said in a speech at the National Anti-Poverty Commission (NAPC) meeting yesterday in Malacañang.
“The preoccupation with politics, past and present, does not promote the stability, policy continuity, security and peace and order that we will need to continue to move our country forward.”
But then of course she knows whereof she speaks, so there’s nothing funny about it, at all. Point is, the President was going on the political offensive, on the premise that (unlike the view of the foreign observers mentioned by Doronila) everything economics-wise, was shipshape. While Marvin A. Tort delves into the merits and demerits of the appreciating peso, the President, long a fetishist of the “strong peso equals a Strong Republic” sort, has no choice but to ponder relief to stave off the worst effects of the appreciating peso (the majority of the two articles above, describe the relief efforts the President’s decreed as a kind of series of emergency measures, which will help the poor but leaves exporters vulnerable still).
The best defense being a good offense, the President knew full well that the opposition had left her self-innoculation devoid of oomph. As the Inquirer editorial today puts it, the President’s reliance on a tactical, and not ethical, approach to questions as to her legitimacy or fitness for office, has reached the end of the road:
This has led to the adoption by the administration of a tactical, instead of ethical, approach to the impeachment process. Yet the kind of people involved — politicians — then and now aren’t very different. Quirino faced vicious infighting within his Liberal Party reminiscent of the intramurals between Kampi and Lakas today, with a relatively small opposition hounding both Presidents.
Indeed the only difference we see is that Quirino genuinely believed in his innocence and trusted the process. Quirino knew, as one of the framers of the 1935 Constitution, what impeachment is: a means by which a nation being governed badly can gain relief. As chief executive he asserted that relief was unnecessary; as a lawyer, he knew his salvation lay in confronting his accusers and opening access to information, and presenting evidence.
In contrast, President Macapagal-Arroyo mistrusts the process and the people in it. Her allies and critics in the House have conspired to approve rules that deny impeachable officials proper vindication not only before the House, but in the court of public opinion. And the Supreme Court, too, has handed down decisions that have mutated impeachment into a race to file weak complaints to stave off genuine ones.
In other words, all three branches of government are stuck in a trap, with each blaming the other for tying its hand, resulting in what we have today. Yet among these institutions, it is the House that still has in its hands the means to pass new rules in keeping with those of 1949. But it won’t, because it prefers the Palace cash buffet. Its members worship at the altar of Mammon instead of the altar of public duty.
Everything else, House-wise, on the part of the majority is bravado on the part of those left holding the bag: House majority rebuffs minority boycott of impeach hearings.
And also, because the best defense is a good offense, this took place: Panlilio, 8 more charged with bribery over Palace handouts. This was something people saw coming: Ateneo official rallies support for embattled Panlilio.
And also, because the best defense is a good offense, just as whistle blowers get the book thrown at them, anyone showing any kind of independence within the ruling coalition gets the Palace pit bills unleashed on them. Manuel Buencamino pens an open letter not for the faint of heart to Juan Ponce Enrile, senior Palace pit bull.
And so, having set the scene, let’s move on to the Batasan blast. I’d just emerged from a dinner conversation with a foreign businessman who was quite worried over the effect the appreciating peso was having on ordinary people and, of course, on the bigger Filipino exporters and other businessmen with whom he did business, and who now had to put plans for expanding or upgrading their equipment on hold (for my part, I traded notes on the true extent of smuggling which is also devastating legitimate businesses). The businessman was particularly puzzled by how the appreciating peso was resulting in an increase in the cost of basic commodities, which then led to a discussion on rice and sugar smuggling, etc.
Ironically, the businessman began our conversation by telling me how he’d first arrived in the Philippines on August 21, 1983, and the pandemonium that had ensued at the Manila International Airport as he arrived shortly before Ninoy Aquino’s flight. Anyway, as I left the meeting, I received a text asking for confirmation of the blast, and so contacted colleagues in the Inquirer who confirmed it; and so it went until midnight, when the President made a brief statement. What struck me most was the quavery voice of Rep. Darlene Custodio.
The initial responses on the blogosphere run the gamut of points of view, and helps provide an insight into the public’s reaction to the news. Whether its Shasha says or Andre’s Journal! a common reaction, on one part, is to be stupefied-and-angry (or relieved to be headed abroad, like Badfish) or simply astounded, like spiderye, or being held hostage by a creeping feeling that there’s an unfolding plot, and of God-knows-what to come, as blue law by anna writes:
Holy shit. They are NOT stopping. People kasi were criticizing them before, eh why the common tao your targeting, during the Glorietta bombing, so now I guess they’re trying to prove a point, that even law-makers, wala, nothing fazes or scares us, we WILL get our point across. What point ba???!!! What do they want? My god, when the Glorietta bombing went off, I felt really bad and angry, but I didn’t feel scared pa rin. I mean, I wasn’t afraid to go malling still or go around public places. But with this Batasan bombing, I’m like, oh my god, I got a really really bad feeling in my stomach, like, of things to come, this is probably not the end of it. Punyeta silang lahat. Nakaraos na yung bayan from our history of violence and unrest tapos ngayon binabalik balik nila.
Or simply being ticked off, as OLSEN 3 was, of people immediately cracking jokes. Outside Manila, in Antique, Antikenyo says people shrugged it off.
Inner Sanctum runs through all the conspiracy theories, and correctly points out,
While there’s nothing new about politicians getting murdered, it’s the audacity of the attack that sends jitters to most people, including myself. I don’t recall lawmakers’ domains (in this case, the Batasang Pambansa) ever getting bombed. If I’m not mistaken, this is the first time that an attack happened right inside the compound that houses congress.
Piercing Pens tackles other possibilities. Though New Philippine Revolution, a few days back, insisted a pattern of resistance is emerging, I’m still skeptical -coordination has not been a characteristic of the groups opposed to the administration, who more often than not, can barely manage to talk civilly to each other.
As it stands, the initial details are fully covered by the papers, see Bomb rocks Congress; solon among 3 killed and Police recover mobile phone at Congress blast site. And Arroyo creates task force vs political violence.
Even as Akbar dies, Teves in critical condition, and media attention therefore focuses on ‘Akbar, wives controlled Basilan’ (going back even further, see Ellen Tordesillas’ Akbar and the ghost of the Lamitan siege and this profile in the San Francisco Chronicle) that old reliable had to shoot his mouth off yet again: Gonzales: ‘We got the warning two weeks ago’.
You know, Gonzales didn’t help matters during the Glorietta blast, and he isn’t helping matters now. Just as one question -who was the target?- is only beginning to be resolved, Gonzales helps raise even more questions -if the target was Akbar, and government knew, why then, did the assassination (if that’s what it was) take place? The government will announce its suspects soon enough, but that, too, will raise more questions, I’m sure.
Anyway, if Akbar was the target, then it’s no different from the assassinations of other congressmen in Metro Manila right before the May elections. It shows that congressmen aren’t beyond vendetta killings formerly restricted to their home provinces -and a general deterioration in the ability of the authorities to maintain law and order.
The collateral damage, if that’s all it was, right at the House of Representatives, also sends a message that I suspect was the cause of Darlene Custodio’s quavery voice, as she described the scene at the time. They are all in it together, and in the end, enemies of the representatives aren’t interested in separating the sheep from the goats.
for me, what is significant is that it’s unclear who, precisely, dismissed the House security detail in the wake of the bombing. If it was the Speaker, then that’s fine; if it was the Secretary of the Interior, that’s an infringement on the independence of the House. This is no trivial matter, even if justified by the authorities as a question of security. If the Palace, in charge of the police power, cocoons representatives and senators in security, the legislators shouldn’t forget that it was an imposition. So far, that hasn’t happened; the Secretary of the Interior has merely offered additional security to legislators if and when they request it, which is the absolutely right way to approach security concerns.
More on Rep. Akbar in reason is the reason:
The lowdown the wife and I got from Dr. J, who was working at the FEU Hospital near the Batasang Pambansa Complex, was that the bomb had been intended for Congressman Wahab Akbar, the Distinguished Gentleman from Basilan.
An interview I heard on the radio later confirmed that the blast had likely come from a remote-controlled IED, detonated by someone within visual range of Akbar.
Akbar had unfortunately developed a routine that his enemies were quick to use to their advantage – he would have his driver pick him up at the same exit, so conveniently close to the motorcycle parking area where a bomb could easily be transported and hidden.
A quick Google search seems to indicate that Akbar had had it coming. He was alleged to have been in cahoots with the Abu Sayyaf commanders holed up in the Lamitan siege: “a group of army officers, ASG members and local governor Wahab Akbar split ransom money that they received for the ‘escape’ of three hostages in the early stages of the episode.â€Â
In a controversial privilege speech, Akbar also claimed that 80% of Filipino Muslims were sympathetic to the Abu Sayyaf. In the same speech, Akbar made the bold claim “I am Basilan†– which wouldn’t be far from the truth, considering that two of his wives have won the top elective positions in the island province.
There’s a moral to be found here, where a man can claim to personify a violent, backward province one day – and end up riddled with shrapnel the next.
That, indeed, may be all there is to it. Live by the sword, die by the sword. If this is what happened, then the question is, just how firmly the government can clamp down if the suspects prove to be from the military, whether in the service, or AWOL.
As Ricky Carandang points out, it’s business as usual:
What happens next is anyone’s guess, but the House leadership has said that the incident will not prevent them from fulfilling their duty of killing the latest impeachment complaint against President Arroyo.
And indeed, mission accomplished: House committee rejects new impeach rap vs Arroyo.
Technorati Tags: Blogging, economy, history, House of Representatives, impeachment, media, military, mindanao, philippines, politics, society
what?!? no shit theory proffered where it is most appropriate?
While everyone in the Philippines delights in the discussion about economy, the peso dollar rate and other things related, the very sad fact is that we are being buffeted by huge propeller wash caused in an ocean of huge mega ships while we are trying desperately to bale water out of our tiny banca with Big Mike and GMA at the helm.
Somehow I guess we need it to ratify ourselves that we are important in a world of behemoths.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/delong64
“Richard Nixon’s treasury secretary, John Connally, once told a group of European leaders that while the dollar was America’s currency, its misalignment was Europe’s problem. Today, the misalignment of the dollar – and the euro – against the renminbi and other Asian currencies is increasingly becoming Asia’s problem.”
“J. Bradford DeLong, Professor of Economics at the University of California at Berkeley, was Assistant US Treasury Secretary during the Clinton administration.”
“National Security Adviser Norberto Gonzales on Wednesday said an intelligence report on the threat to the life of Basilan Representative Wahab Akbar was received two weeks ago.
“We got the warning two weeks ago. This could have an implication on who killed him,†said Gonzales.â€Â
Do you believe this?
Why didn’t they do anything about so-called security report?
Why did it happen in the highly secured Batasan complex?
if Rep. Akbar was the target, a professional assassin would wisely and on orders take out the lawmaker in a surgical manner — Akbar alone! not in the freaking way that it was done right in the premises of the Congress of the Philippines! with so many others killed/injured and such a visual evidence of destruction!!
the message is chilling indeed. JDV has not suddenly turned saint now that he recently went against GMA for he’s one of those who propped this rotten corrupt political system, but i agree with him that the target was Congress, not Akbar. GMA is not above using gold in such a galling manner so that she could stay in power, she’s not above using terrorism such as the bombing in Congress so that she could hang on to power. will she eventually do a Musharraf? she would, it that’s what it takes!
The trouble is the Human Security Act of 2007 (Republic Act No. 9327) or the Anti-Terror Law cannot be applied to the Batasan blast because the law is deemed suspended 2 months after the conduct of any election as provided in the law itself. We just had election last October 29. In effect, this law has no tooth on circumstances like this.
To indulge inodoro ni emilie: I thought the explosion was caused by the collective fart of congressmen reeling from Php200,000 eating spree.
I wonder if anyone is paying any attention to the driver who was likewise killed, and the family he left behind.
Arbet,
That’s what happens when people shit on their plates.
Joselito,
kaya nga dapat ibasura na yan batas na yan. punishable naman under the Revised Penal Code yun nangyari sa batasan
Madonna,
Kasi december weather na…malamig…so those motorcycle assassins don’t really want to do drive by shootings….bomba na lang at cell phone habang nagkakape sa Starbucks
i just find it wierd that the gov’t/la gloria tells the public not to speculate — when it’s the police that’s right on the dot on making speculations first — in this case, the take-out Akbar theory — without presenting solid/physical/inconvertible evidence and doing thorough investigation first — not the hogwash that norberto gozales is peddling that there were intel reports about plans to kill akbar — or as ncrpo chief barias that since the mortorcycle that was the source of the bomb was located near akbar’s vehicle, ergo Akbar is the target…what kind of puny logic is this? he carefully avoided the observation na the same motorcycle ay, nakapark near the entrance lobby ng KONGRESO NG PILIPINAS. had rep. teves died too they would be scrambling for another theory to explain what happened. only the most powerful thugs who are in power in this country would dare stage something like this.
i think most people are not so sympathetic. e kung bombahin ang kongreso na pinamumuhayan ng mga buwaya, they deserve it eh.
as for me, i’m an ordinary citizen i have the right to be paranoid and to speculate. so fuck gma on calls for the public not to speculate… makapagkape na nga lang sa starbucks! lol, on the other hand, wag na, baka may bomb-carrying goons din duon.
MB’s letter to Juan Letse Enrile is a must read.
Murder by numbers is what happened to the 2nd impeachment complaint.
This one was dead on arrival to quote Edcal Lagman on the 2nd impeachment.
It’s apt that the ones chosen to deliver the eulogies were Marcoleta San Luis and Monica Puentavella, the representaive from Mike Arroyo’s lower intestine.
I think there’s more to the bombing than simply an assassination. Those motorcycle riding assassins have been pretty efficient so far and there’s really no reason why someone who wanted Akbar killed would not have availed of their services. Why use a bomb when a bullet will suffice?
Levi,
Thanks for your support.
The sectors that are all growing in double digits that are pulling up the growth rate is narrow and tax revenues are very little affected by this sectors roboust growth.
Plus the OFW based consumption is also contracting affecting consumption based tax take.
Apart from selling off government owned assets where oh where are new tax revenues going to come from?
Capital gains from the equity and bond markets are limited in nature and are not covered by income taxes. Maybe the government should look at raising the capital gains from equity and bond markets.
Meanwhile the bulk of the economy is struggling along with an inflationary wave building up with high oil prices and high food prices on the horizon.
All this in a country whose political establishment are figthing over the spoils of power.
Watch for a bust coming just in time for the 2010 elections. It might come sooner but 2010 looks like the period when the economic perfect storm could occur.
Now a bombing in the House of Representatives.
Who is minding the store is one question that everyone is asking.
Unfortunately the worlwide headlines will be bombing in the Congress of the Philippines. Lawmaker killed.
Great PR job for the crazies once again.
sa ibang mga comment dito pinapakita lang na how discriminating they are? kasi muslim ang namatay yun ang mga comment nila. ang mahirap kasi naniniwala tayo sa hakahaka lang? why not show some evidence that this man is really an ally of ASG? or masama siya? siguro kung hindi muslim si akbar magaganda mababasa natin dito? now i understand why our brother muslim want to be separated from the Philippines.
Two crimes were committed in the seats of power in two months :
October : Bribery in Malacanang
November : Murder in Batasan
Connect the dots…ZTE-NBN scandal…,Ayala mall bombing…impeachMe….briberies…Batasan bombing…
where does it lead to?
Manuel: More power to your “fearless journalismâ€Â.
Beware of Enrile ,an ageing bloodhound once again sniffing the scent of the old fox(JDV) , knowing he’s wounded, wanting to be there to assist in the kill.
Is Gov Panlilio the only one among those governors who received Malacanang Christmas bags of cash with the courage?
This is a dastardly act of terror, obviously aimed to achieve three objectives:
1)Send a strong warning signal to Congress.
2)Wipe out a known Abu Sayyaf supporter.
3)Divert public attention away from other scandals.
Equalizer, I’m not sure your reasons are that “obvious”. The crime and the MO can more easily be explained like this:
1) Akbar made a lot of enemies in the ASG when he left them, and when he started oppressing ASG’s family members as Basilan governor.
2) a remotely controlled IED is consistent with past ASG terror attacks, and seemed to have been made specifically to get Akbar.
3) The government has little to gain and a lot to lose by pulling off something like this. Only the ASG has anything to gain from killing Akbar (Akbar is a Liberal party guy, the one that stuck with GMA).
Occam’s Razor is a very handy tool in cases like these.
mickeytymoc: in a highly secured place like the Batasan?
http://slatev.com/player.html?id=1308174039
let’s take a break from Philippine politics for a second.
Watch the video on the latest Bushisms(taking the governor phone call,undressing musharaff and curing death.
One thing I can honestly say: Bush is funnier than Gloria.In fact he reminds me more of Eraptions
Yes. The “beauty” of an IED is that it can be concealed quite easily, as in this case, the gas tank of a motorcycle. The target entrance was conveniently next to the motorcycle parking area, from what I’ve heard. And judging from how perfunctory security checks are in most checkpoints, it’s not hard to believe that an operative could get a motorcycle into the complex in under two or three tries.
Manolo:I have always been fascinated by the interplay of seemingly unrelated connection events until a clear pattern emerges .My fascination with the “Connections†approach to history started when I watched the whole BBC series on “Connections†in the early 80s.
Philippine Scenario: With this “Connection perspectiveâ€Â, we only have to connect the dots of the recent events to see patterns and eventually see the big picture we have all been longing for…
* It starts with a brave journalist and his expose on ZTE.
*â€ÂBack off!†drama in Wack Wack.
*The emergence of a most unlikely and brave whistle blower.
*The “Sec, may 200 ka dito†attempted bribery during a golf game in Wack Wack.
*The Senate hearings on ZTE.
*Neri invoking “executive†privilege as shield.
*The proposed impeachment of Daddy chair.
*The resignation of Daddy chair.
*The cancellation of ZTE deal.
*Pulido’s impeachment immunization move.
*The attempted bribery on Cong.Beltran to support/sponsor “Impeach Meâ€Â
*The bribery of Governors/Congressmen in Malacanang.
*The bravery of Among Ed.
*The hasty pardon of ERAP.
*The Ayala “Big Fartâ€Â
*The “Impeach Me†drama in Batasan
*The Batasan bombing
equalizer, we belong to the same generation. i was also hooked on that show. but if you’re to follow “connections” you have to go further afield and not necessarily the most obvious links -you also have to take into account the law of unintended consequences.
you would have to start, i don’t know, with the victory of fm in 1965, or somewhere else. go as far afield as iraq, etc., etc.
President Arroyo Blames Politics on the Tragic death of Ms Amper and the assassination of Comelec official Dalaig on Politics and who are “this Politics”? who lead them Politics? The President has the Majority in the House, the Local Government and awash in foreign currency remittances from OFWs, and on open loan from a very friendly neighbour China to help out the millions of Ms Ampers and to put the assassins where they belong, but it seems the problem is getting worse. The extra-judicial disappearance and killings have somehow subsided after the pressures from all sides notably from the U.N. and the Human Rights, but now the rule of the MOBs is taking over and she’s blaming herself (politics) in a way it appears she’s blameless..she had learned the tricks…
Vic,
Excellent assessment. Thoroughly agree with you.
manolo:the seed of her destruction as a respected national leader was planted on that fateful day she reneged on her promise to the nation NOT to run in the 2004 elections.
It has been downhill since then,with the Garci tapes, etc. etc.etc.
Bad karma.
In your opinion,who is the worst ever Philippine President?
see the latest poll results in my blog
equalizer, nod.
“Let this day douse all rumor and speculation that this Government is divided. It is strong and focused on the business of the people. We ask our people to join us in our journey to a future of national stability, peace and solidarity.â€ÂToting Bunye(Ops…Office of the Press Secretary)
mlq3,
Did you get my email with attachments? I’m talking about the JSTOR files.
why?
What do you know about Akbar?
supremo:“We’ll have the most progressive province in the country,†Wahab Akbar said at one rally. “When the people have dynasty, they have more development.â€Â
It’s the first time, however, that a man and his multiple wives have become elected officials at both the national and provincial level. Seven other politicians related to Congressman Akbar by bloodline, including a niece, nephew and several cousins, also won election victories in smaller towns around the island.†San Francisco Chronicle
Who will continue the Akbar dynasty in Basilan?
supremo, yes, thanks very, very much!!!
mlq3, guess i spoke too soon in the preceding thread. i should have waited for you to raise the baton and predictably, as night follows day, your disciples here blare another cacophony of blame-gma villification.
doronilla is nothing but a prophet of doom with respect to gma. he has been embarrassingly off before in his prognostications and he is wrong now. and neumann? who is neumann in philippine affairs.just where is he coming from?
you probably find it laughable but this business of poisoning the country’s political and economic environment by indiscriminately disseminating totally unsubstantiated “scandals”, and celebrate the resulting international ‘malperception’. much has been said about filipino’s penchant for shooting themselves on the foot. i think they often do it, the media in particular, for personal political reasons, and let the country be damned. who do you think suffers?
this is not saying that real, honest-to-goodness misbehavior should be swept under the rug for the sake of international reputation. justice, whether for or against an alleged wrongdoer, is appreciated anywhere in the civilized world. gma’s presidency ends in 2010. why is there a need to constantly inflict a blackeye internationally on the entire nation? pgma is not the philipines!
Bencard
What’s new? We’ve always been masochists. Panahon pa ni Marcos, Masokista na ang Pilipino. What’s sad is that these guys who always are the bearer of bad news are the first ones to leave the country for so called greener pastures anyway…di ba?
bencard, tsinoy, where is the black eye and where is the masochism in my entry?
At the end of the day, the latest person to sit in Malacanang will always be the worst President to have ever sat on it…what’s new? Kaya nga pagod na ako sa kakangawa ng ating mga kababayan….as if naman kung sila ang nabibiyayaan ng mga powers that be…di sila tatahimik….
I have always said before, our country is NOT ready for democracy. Di nga lang katanggap tanggap sa mga sumusulat sa forum na ito yung idea na yan. Ayaw pa rin nila buksan ang kanilang mga mata na ang demokrasya ay maaring lumago lamang kung may kasamang disiplina at responsibilidad ang mamamayan ukol sa kapakanan ng kanilang bansa. Eh wala nga eh…every man for himself ang nasa damdamin ng bawa’t pinoy. Huwag na tayo maging ipokrito tungkol sa bagay na ito. Iilan lang ang may tunay na pagmamahal sa Pilipinas. At di ko sinasabing kasama ako diyan. Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.
If you want to cover your ears from the reality of the world, you’ll do so at the expense of your participation in democracy. But don’t blame the messenger. …
When I was living abroad, I always hear bad news about our country from the foreign publications. Then, when I find out what’s really going on, I realize it’s not as bad as it is made to believe by the media.
This is exactly the point Bencard and I are trying to make. Mountains are being made out of mole hills.
For me, kung ganun ang bansa natin na katulad sa mga ipinagkakalat sa diyaryo, eh di dapat talaga umalis na ang mga mamamayan natin sa bansa. Wala na palang kuwentang manirahan diyan.
I have always said before, our country is NOT ready for democracy.Tsinoy
You can always consider China.Remember 1989: Massacre in Tiananmen Square?
Covering one’s ears is different from exaggeration mi amigo. What we always hear are things that are blown out of proportion….THAT is the the problem. I am not trying to defend the regime as it really has its problems…pero again, when you hear and BELIEVE what media has to say….like I said, I would rather leave the country na nga….
And you actually BELIEVE that TIANANMEN SQUARE as told by Foreign media is the WHOLE STORY? The you’re really naive…..
goodbye;i hope you can bravely face the Communist tanks in Tiananmen Square like that BRAVE solitary figure in 1989.
I guess what I am really saying is this….go ahead, talk about the problem…but please stop embellishing…seek the truth ( I do agree with you on this) but don’t just rely on what media is saying…they have their own agenda….
He he….well, I wanted an intelligent discussion…but I guess believing without discerning is the norm for the day….:=)
“like I said, I would rather leave the country na nga….Tsinoy”
Nobody is stopping you from leaving this country and joining the Mainland.Take care!
Zài jiàn ï¼Â
Tsinoy:
yÇ’u kÃ…Âng ér cháng lái aï¼Â
One has to consider China’s hostory to decipher what really went on in TianAnMen Square. What you have always heard is what the Western Democracies want you to hear…..read up on CHina’s history through China’s eyes, then you’ll understand why what happened in TianAnMen happened.
The CHinese mind is very different from the Western mind…democracy in the form presented by the Westerners is a very alien concept to the CHinese.
Equalizer, you still don’t get it….what i said was, if I start to believe everything media has to say, then you would rather leave the country….
Obviously I don’t…which is why I am still here…:=)
I have Chinese blood just like you(and most Filipinos) BUT I am 100% Filipino in empathy with the poor.
Do you what PAGPAG means?(It’s recycled garbage food that the poor in Payatas are eating.)
That’s the REALITY.
bù yuǎn sòng le.
Funny you should say that….Going to China is not exactly a bad thing. I was in CHina recently and hey, it’s not a bad place to live in…..so I guess if your subliminal racism cannot accept that a Filipino of Chinese descent can discuss the welfare of the Philippines, then so be it….
Tsinoy:I worked in China for 5 years as a GM in a large multinational.
yÄ« lù pÃÂng ÄÂn ï¼Â
OK, Tsinoy, you have our attention. What really happened in Tiananmen Square that merited the massacre of hundreds of protesters?
That’s exactly the point….we should stop whining and start trying to fix the problem in our own small ways and not wait for government and the regime to fix the problem.
Tony Meloto had the right idea with GK and I admire him for that. We have to teach the poor and the downtrodden to help THEMSELVES.
I probably have as much Chinese blood as you.Proud of my Chinese roots. BUT PROUDER about my land of birth.
That’s why I give a damn!Actually,it’s easier to remain quiet.
bù yuǎn sòng le.
EXACTLY! And that is why I support her ouster–for the good of the Philippines!
The Massacre was truly unfortunate. I am not saying it did not happen. What the problem was that in China’s history, quite a number of foreign powers have taken advantage of China and in fact, have tried to divide it amongst themselves. From the Chinese mind, the democratic movement was an attempt to take China apart and was not a democratic movement.
I know this is quite a simplistic explanation but there are books available that will give you the alternative explanation. I am NOT saying it’s entirely correct. I AM saying that it must be considered.
HOnestly, I don;t even know why this discussion came about. All I am saying is that we should be careful in discerning the news you hear from media as things tend to get exaggerated…
Which is why the issue of Gloria Arroyo’s cheating is not important to you. If democracy is not for us anyway, then what’s the fuss? That’s one of the pillars of the elitist mindset.
“Mountains are being made out of mole hills.”
Whose mole?The one with mole is the PROBLEM
yi lu ping an too….equalizer….
So the Imperial Court never really went away?
Mike
In a sense, it never did….:-)
“I have always said before, our country is NOT ready for democracy. Di nga lang katanggap tanggap sa mga sumusulat sa forum na ito yung idea na yan.”
Maybe you are referring to your motherland
bencard,
excuse me but i’m a newbie to this forum exchange — but hmmm, i have feeling that your charming naivete regarding the state of the country is because you’re not here in Pinas? are you? sounds more like you’re down with Alice in Wonderland…you know Alice really when she was there — she acted like a little tyrant and an imperialist. go read the book… it’s for adults really. peace brother
Equalizer
Please stop playing the racist card in this discussion. Jeez.
MLQ3, is this a forum only for people with ONE point of view alone???? If that is the case, I will then just keep my mouth shut.
As i mentioned in my blog entry, a large proportion of Filipinos (around 33%) have Chinese blood (Y-DNA M122 Haplogroup). Studies have shown that our population is most closely related to the Amis of Taiwan and the Southern Chinese. It’s just that the Binondo types and the recent immigrants from the mainland somehow want to separate themselves from the rest of the population. Must be the ‘Chinese’ mind.
Mike, i think PTBT has been drinking from Lee Kuan Yew’s kool-aid.
It’s just that the Binondo types and the recent immigrants from the mainland somehow want to separate themselves from the rest of the population. Must be the ‘Chinese’ mind.
CVJ:You are absolutely right.I don’t think Rizal ( and my own 100% Chinese grandfather) ever had to make a distinction and call themselves “Tsinoy” to differentiate themselves.
We are ALL PINOYS who give a damn about our LAND OF BIRTH.
WOW, I never realized so called democrats can really be tyrants, what with the kind of comments I see, just because someone has an alternative point of view.
I never even realized until now that TSINOY pala is SUCH a derogatory term for the people in this forum. the fact that it just means Tsinong PINOY…with emphasis on PINOY I guess doesn’t really mean anything…I guess we 3rd generation chinese filipino don’t really have a right to an opinion..
“Senate President Manuel Villar and Minority Leader Aquilino Pimentel Jr, asked the police to dig deeper, pointing out that other personalities, aside from Akbar, were killed in the blast.
“I think the blast was not particularly directed to a particular person. It was meant to sow fear and chaos in Congress and society,” Villar said.
The Senate chief also said the timing of the blast raised suspicion that the incident was meant to again divert the nation’s attention from scandals hounding the Arroyo administration.”GMA NEWS
That’s also my view.See “Connect the dots”
One thing i noticed is that those who advocate dictatorship are the most sensitive to having their opinions challenged. Must be why they instinctively prefer a dictatorship, so no one can challenge them.
“I guess we 3rd generation chinese filipino don’t really have a right to an opinion..”
Nobody can tell you to shut up because this is still a democracy!
That’s what we are fighting for!
mlq3, i was referring to the seeming tendency of philippine media, in general, of repetitiously highlighting unproven “scandals” as “facts” rather than bare allegations that they are. the usually politically-motivated accuser’s, e.g. lacson, et al., and the disgruntled “businessman’s”, e.g. jdv3, gossip-mongering can be taken with a grain of salt by a discerning public, but journalist’s spin a/k/a “educated opinion” usually acquires a life of its own through constant repetition. an irresponsible press is as dangerous to freedom as a despotic government. it doesn’t destroy democracy in one fell swoop but gradually like termites on hardwood. to me, one who repeats a canard, without qualification, is as guilty as its originator.
“I have always said before, our country is NOT ready for democracy.” – Proud to be Tsinoy
Question: Which country are you referring to? China or the Philippines
dodong, this “entity†who calls himself jao (i’m not sure if he is a male/female person or whatever) is doing a watchful eye- to whom i expressed disgust for making a “hypothetical†involving a close family member of mine in a gruesome criminal attack – Bencard
Oh boy, it’s just a hypothetical, not even an allegation, and whiny benny is expressing disgust about “the seeming tendency of philippine media, in general, of repetitiously highlighting unproven “scandals†as “facts†rather than bare allegations that they are.â€Â
Was it an “unproven hypothetical†that was repetitiously highlighted as “facts†rather than bare allegations?
is this the mind of a gm? jees
chinoy, patience is a virtue.
madonna, you can review the past threads that i have participated in to see where i stand and why. yes, i live in the u.s. east coast and have done so for the last 47 years, but i have often visited “my” motherland where i still have many close relatives, fond memories, and which i consider “my” home for all time.
when i left the philippines in 1970, the population was at approximately 45 million. there were already numerous pockets of poverty then. on a personal note, i experienced selling bottles of drinking water, and shining shoes, at train stations in bicol during my pre-teen years. i had a full-time job at the defunct phhc in quezon city at age 16, moving on to a clerical position at central post office while pursuing a diploma in journalism and law. you can just imagine the “privations” of a young working student earning 4 pesos a day for self-support (my mother was sole breadwinner, and i was fatherless since age 3).
now the population is over 80 million in a heavily indebted country ravaged by unrelenting chain of disasters and years of government plunder and corruption. vultures in and out of the government are vying against one another in rapacity and viciousness. cynics and hypocrites, capitalizing on the atmosphere of utter hopelessness, feed on the desperation of their countrymen, not for the latter’s benefit but for their own.
contrary to your perception, i am not exactly in “wonderland” although, compared to philippines it could be, especially politically and economically speaking. i think the average american really cares for his/her country, not just for him/herself and his/her close relatives.
cvj on, “One thing i noticed is that those who advocate dictatorship are the most sensitive to having their opinions challenged. Must be why they instinctively prefer a dictatorship, so no one can challenge them.”
This is leading out of context on Tsinoy’s comment on democracy as alien in China. China’s experience with huge tract of lands and vast resources has been subjugated by foreign powers. Foreign powers wanted to divide China for its resources. Japan entered 2nd world war to make its claim. Russia overran Manchuria. US found ingenious way of supporting the unpopular Nationalist to retain access to resources. If democracy was allowed to work in China, China would have been forever broken into pieces. The popular commnist China which is proven correct after all the years of foreign intervention is resistant to any democratic attempts in Tibet, Hongkong or any of its territory.
cvj on, “Mike, i think PTBT has been drinking from Lee Kuan Yew’s kool-aid.”
More appropriate for people who benefited from Singapore.
tsinoy on, “Eh wala nga eh…every man for himself ang nasa damdamin ng bawa’t pinoy.”
This is understood from the view of limited resources to rapid population growth.
“Proud to be Tsinoy :
When I was living abroad, I always hear bad news about our country from the foreign publications. Then, when I find out what’s really going on, I realize it’s not as bad as it is made to believe by the media.
This is exactly the point Bencard and I are trying to make. Mountains are being made out of mole hills.”
Let’s say I’m reading a newspaper (Filipino Reporter) with news that says ‘Garbage all over Metro Manila”, I would be a little bit skeptical and check its accuracy by calling my brother in Manila.
supremo: Marami daw basurang nakakalat diyan?
kapatid: Hindi naman. Doon sa kanto maraming basura na hindi nakolekta noong isang linggo pa. Pero dito sa looban wala naman basura
Basura everywhere is relative. To those living in the main street garbage is everywhere.
supremo on, “Basura everywhere is relative. To those living in the main street garbage is everywhere.”
You can insist that way based on hypothetical. But if we apply factual event, let us pick up a neutral recent event say Glorietta BOMBING. It turned out it was explosion. But conspiracy theories abounds until facts were sorted out. That is the point of Tsinoy, to be discerning of facts.
hey, bencard, is tsinoy is talking to you? better tell him then how soon you used the escape chute upon the declaration of m.l. in pursuit of the greener pasture.
dOdOng,
Garbage is as neutral as you can get. Glorietta bombing is not a neutral event. Itigil mo na ang pagiging pilosopo mo.
Bencard calls Doronila the male cassandra but he’s forgetting that Doronila used to be one of the most trusted pressmen of Gloria — he supported her through thick and thin before, during and after the Erap impeachment until after the coup d’état in 2001. She made a semblance of rewarding him with any of the juicy ambassadorial post that Doronila wanted.
First there was Rome, then Paris, and later on, Brussels — Doronila was waiting for the final appointment but it never came — becasue someone else (another pressman) beat Doronila to the punch every time. Gloria finally dropped Doronila and the promise of the ambassadorial post ‘for a job well done’ vanished.
After that, Doronila became bitter so he turned around and began hitting her.
So, Bencard, if Doronila, once Gloria’s loyal dog in the press is muck raking today, blame Gloria for it, not Manolo here! Heh!
tsinoy: let a thousand flowers bloom, a hundred thoughts contend, etc.
tsinoy’s comments re: media are interesting. it’s a phenomenon i’ve noticed, too, but mainly in that nothing ever seems capable of resolution. if you leave the country and return a month later, you can pick up the paper and it would seem you’d left only yesterday. and i have had discussions with many people (foreigners) who have a grim impression of the country only to find it a delightful place (within limits).
re: tiananmen square, it was a question of order for the politburo, and part of the dynamics that were still trying to resolve the party leadership after the twin failed experiments of the great leap forward and the cultural revolution. online, this makes for interesting reading:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB16/documents/index.html
you will always have different mentalities at play in a government in times of disorder. the chinese communist party after all is a dictatorship, its utmost interest the preservation of the party’s monopoly on power. add to that the reflowering of confucian values (respect for elders, for hierarchy, etc.) and how the students challenged this, and the trauma from the cultural revolution and you can see why the students were slaughtered. in exchange, most biographies of the leading figures of the time point out the move to modernize china gained apace, which has paid off in the coastal areas. but as is given tacit recognition by the chinese communist party from time to time, conditions in the interior, including periodic protests, have created new tension.
cjv, the “binondo” mindset is not as monolithic as some imagine and we have the best-integrated chinese population in our region, though it’s facing its own challenges today:
http://www.pcij.org/i-report/2007/chinese.html
supremo on, “Garbage is as neutral as you can get. Glorietta bombing is not a neutral event. Itigil mo na ang pagiging pilosopo mo.”
Again, it is explosion. There was no bomb per foreign bomb experts.
dOdOng, Bencard, Tsinoy: exaggeration of news, conspiracy theorists, anti-govt media – these are not limited to the Philippines alone. every functioning democracy has this. it is the flagship of liberty. the freedom to say what you want even if other people don’t like it (so long as it does not trample on the rights of others or threaten their safety)
don’t like to hear bad news? tune in to govt media stations, all you’ll hear are good news. your wish to censor speech is a desire only dictators harbor. look, a good govt will be able to turn untrue bad news and biased doomsayers into good news and believers if it just does its job and perform well. what’s the antidote to criticism? prove them wrong is all.
when you’re standing on truth, it’s not very hard to defend your position. when you govern right, no amount of bad publicity will make people believe you’re mismanaging the country. you know why? bec your efforts will speak for itself! and you don’t even need to hire publicists and spin doctors to do the PR job for you!
a bad product needs a good advertisement of lying to sell, while a good product needs only for people to try it out once for it to keep selling.
and Bencard, since you’re in the US, you should know American media is worst than its Philippine counterpart.
i am reminded of a recent pathetic effort by this admin to advertise that its trickle-up economics is bettering Filipino lives. maybe you’ve seen the TV ad i call: Damang-dama ko ang pagsisinungaling nyo!
The ad starts with a cook talking abt her economic liberation at the hands of this admin, followed by an entreprenuer telling the viewers that business is picking up, then a med transcriptionist proclaiming his life is now easier; all of them ending their testimonials with the phrase: damang-dama ko ang pag-asenso!
nang una kong mapanood ang ad na to, natawa lang ako. sinong bobong copywriter ang nagsulat ng ad na yan? it is so crude and so unbelieveable that the ad serves the opposite effect of what the client wants.
my initial reaction was: pucha, damang-dama ko ang bullshit nyo.
the ad tempts me so much to make an ad in retort to it and spoof this ad to laughable ignominy.
i’ll start with a montage of shots of Philippine squalor, then go around Metro Manila and ask local residents there if they feel their lives are easier under the GMA admin. then end the ad with the phrase: sila na ang nagsabi, damang-dama rin nila – ang paghihirap!
lols.
devils,
i’ll await your finish product in youtube.
dOdOng,
Again, itigil mo na ang pamimilosopo mo. Korni na, OA pa.
AT least somebody got my point. I was not trying to muzzle the press. All I am saying is that I agree with Bencard that media should not be making assertions without facts to back it up. Media should also not exaggerate the facts just to sell their papers.
Again, it’s all about being responsible. I also believe in democracy and freedom, but if there is no discipline and responsibility, then we have what we have right now. We get the kind of leadership we have been getting over the last 50 years (from FM to GMA) and we have the kind of country we now presently have….still the same feudalistic datus ruling over their natives with the occasional piece of meat thrown in to placate them. And that is what I meant when I said that people in our country are not yet ready for democracy.
In this context, I appreciate mlq3 reaction. He made his point by discussing my idea and even directing me to a web page. Unlike some other guys who’s knee jerk reaction is just to tell me to go back to the motherland.
nakit-protesta lang, terrorista na. for our enlightenment, will jihad obsessed djb explain why our anti-terrorist law not likely to fall into the same political contraption to clamp down well-meaning opposition?
our people very much understand the concept of democracy. they participate in elections, and put their preferred leaders to power. you may not appreciate their choice, but hey this is how democracy works.
what is demo-crazy is when elected leaders suddenly get amnesia and forget what they are there for: to serve the people and not their own interests. or when you have the elite few who tramples on democratic processes and decide who determines who get to sit in power, dismissing the choice of the majority. the problem therefore is not that we have a democratic system working in place but a set of people who do not know how to abide by how this system should work.
our people not yet ready for democracy? or is it our leaders having no regard for what it means?
Tsinoy,
“still the same feudalistic datus ruling over their natives with the occasional piece of meat thrown in to placate them. And that is what I meant when I said that people in our country are not yet ready for democracy.”
Assuming your description is correct, then it seems that both sides can live with the arrangement. That, in its own way, is a demovratic arramgement.
There is a Malay legend about this – a people were saved by a warrior. They made him king and they swore loyalty, obedience etc. but on one condition… their contract would end once he became unjust.
Moral of the story: The essence of democracy is jusice.
So when you say a people is not ready for democracy, you are in effect saying that people don’t know what and when they are not being governed justly.
I think people know. I think people will not tolerate injustice. The idea that people will go along as long as they have a full stomach is a lie against humanity because it degrades us to the level of animals. It is an idea propagated by tyrants and would be tyrants.
If injustice persists and pervades in our society, it’s not for lack of wanting to right the situation. It’s something else.
“Again, it’s all about being responsible. I also believe in democracy and freedom, but if there is no discipline and responsibility”
I prefer an independent,”in your face ” Philippine press in a free -wheeling environment over a “suppressed” press anytime!
Tyrants throughout history have understood that information is power, and denying information to its own people, or disseminating propaganda to the rest of the world have been trademarks for years in China.
The only responsibility of the press is not to lie.
The only responsibility of the press is not to lie.
AMEN
mlq3, equalizer:
connections, i loved that show! it was my regular “mind stretch”
MB:
sir, you’ve used one of the most effective appeals to a Filipino male. the question is, may asim pa ba si Enrile?
I agree with you on that point, Equalizer. I’d rather have an excessive media over an abusive government anytime.
One thing I like about democracy is that it gives you the freedom to choose your God, in other forms of governance, the leader takes the place of God.
“you’ve used one of the most effective appeals to a Filipino male. the question is, may asim pa ba si Enrile?tonio”
Planning to write a totally unauthorized biography of Enrile,”JPE,Bypassed by History”
“One thing I like about democracy is that it gives you the freedom to choose your God, in other forms of governance, the leader takes the place of God.Qwert”
Kim Jong-il
Equalizer,
Or maybe “The Eternal Bridesmaid” ?
Tonio,
Kahit siguro doon sa mga mahilig eh hindi na sasagi sa isip nila yan naisip mong itanong…hehe
tsinoy, i was going to respond to devils with the same line of thought but you beat me to the punch. i really don’t know if it’s bad reading comprehension, or deliberate distortion of what was said. who is “censoring” speech? until put under control by marcos during his martial law regime, philippine media was one of the most free, if not the freest. it was also one of the most irresponsible and abusive. after marcos, it was back to business as usual, with a vengeance, where one can hardly see the difference between responsible reporting and tabloid journalism. the effect in the outside world is not flattering to the filipino nation which, ironically, could be insanely sensitive, e.g., the “desperate housewives” and the kimmel “insults”. btw, i think the over reaction was more demeaning than the alleged insult, for it underscores the pinoy’s lack of self-esteem, masquerading as readiness to avenge real or imagined affronts.
devils, if you think america’s press was worst, would that justify irresponsibility and abusive behavior in the philippine media? where is the relevance?
MB
Heard they plan to revive the once popular TV game show “Spin A Win”.
Conflict of interest ba if Ronnie d’ Puno becomes the show’s spinmaster?
bencard:
and therein lies the root of everything here in the Philippines sir. the only unfortunate thing is that it’s those kinds of people who are in power now.
cvj, equalizer, and the rest:
you are too quick to prosecute. what i got from tsinoy was a call for discernment, to study the “connections” of the events to everything going on around here. media should especially be suspect,especially the larger networks who see the people of this country as an audience first and as countrymen second. it totally sickens me when they engage into fabricated/exaggerated intricacies of everyday events in an effort to whip up interest in their news programming (just listen to the almost melodramatic diction of our news presenters and you’ll get what i mean), while simultaneously feeding senseless drivel and perpetuating destructive stereotypes with the rest of their local programming. makes you wanna just stick to watching cable.
MB:
i agree with you. the responsibility of the press is not to lie, unfortunately for many of your compatriots, simply telling the truth is not a prized skill. placing a controversial or exaggerated angle, is.
MB:
hehehe, well sir, kung hindi na kasi dumadaloy yung dugo ni Enrile, di na tatablan nung sinabi mo eh.
tonio, you been here, have you observed that about every media entity here in has its own Ombudsman to safeguard its integrity and entertain all complaints from the public about media misbehaviours? That’s is why we are not involve with issues like journalistic shenanigans and if their is, the remedy is the lawsuit.
How should the press have treated the news on, say, the “Hello Garci” scandal in the manner that should have made Bencard, PTBT, Dodong and the rest happy?
Headline: WITHOUT PROOF BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, ENEMIES ACCUSE GMA OF ELECTORAL FRAUD
Using tape recordings obtained through illegal wiretapping of which possession and use in any proceedings are prohibited under Philippine law, and without any other piece of evidence to establish proof beyond reasonable doubt, members of Philippine opposition, generally known for irresponsible behavior, today accused President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo of manipulating the recent presidential elections to win…
What about the Malacañang payoff scandal?
Headline: WITHOUT BOTHERING TO GATHER MORE INFORMATION TO ESTABLISH PROOF BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, PRIEST TURNED POLITICIAN REVEALS PAYOFF IN MALACAÑANG
There, supply the body…
“while simultaneously feeding senseless drivel and perpetuating destructive stereotypes with the rest of their local programming.”
Tonio:You are free NOT to watch.But at least in this country,people still have choices.”To each his own”.
I still prefer free-wheeling media over STATE-Controlled media where everything is about “Good News” and “Praises “for the Maximum leader.Remember Marcos?
BTW,ANC is not that bad with really good shows like “The Big Picture”,”The Explainer” ,”Strictly Politics”,”The World Tonight”.
“North Korea has 12 principal newspapers and 20 major periodicals, all of varying periodicity and all published in Pyongyang. Like electronic media, print media are all controlled by the state. The Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) is the sole news distributor in North Korea. Wikipedia”
Tsinoy,old geezer:try blogging in North Korea.It’s all GOOD NEWS there.
Equalizer: “I still prefer free-wheeling media over STATE-Controlled media where everything is about “Good News†and “Praises “for the Maximum leader.Remember Marcos?”
False dichotomy there – tonio isn’t arguing that a shackled press is better than a free press. I think we’re all agreed a free press is the best option, and we’re all agreed that our press is one of the freest in SEAsia (I’ve been to Malaysia and Singapore – wow, I do not want to have a press like theirs!).
Question is, are our newspapers and news outlets free of any agendas? Axes to grind? Filters? We have to consider that, not just the institutional agendas (business interests of newspaper owners, for example), but also the political agendas of each reporter, if any (does an unconscious radical left filter exist in reporters who graduated from schoolpapers like the Collegian?).
Wait, there’s more. How often do the facts figure in a newspaper report, versus quotes from this source or that? A reporter with an agenda can tailor an article for one viewpoint or another by quoting one source, and leaving out another. These kinds of manipulations work even under a free press, and it’s good to be conscious of these things when they happen.
ricelander, i think you got the drift. crude, but with a little fine-tuning for better readability, it could work. at least, to me, it’s more factually correct. if it were up to me, i would change the text to read:
Headline: OPPOSITION ACCUSES GMA OF ELECTORAL FRAUD
then delete “to establish beyond reasonable doubt” from the story.
on the alleged pay-off, i would put:
Headline: GOVERNOR CLAIMS RECEIPT OF CASH IN MALACANANG
Thanks micketytoc. We should look at fairplay in reporting.
I do believe in a free press, but it should be a free and responsible press.
Just compare the Inquirer and The Tribune and see how people can slant their stories to fit their agenda. Inquirer is a more moderate paper while the Tribune is so slanted they believe Erap is a hero rather than the scoundrel he is.
Equalizer, I never advocated a muffled press so stop putting words in my mouth.
PTBT: Yes, I understood your argument from the beginning. The press has the privilege of being free in our country, but it also has a responsibility, that it reports the facts as neutrally as possible.
Holding a press responsible for its errors and biases is not equivalent to a shackled press.
All this bashing against media exaggerating, making assertions, speculating, etc., etc.
Look, the GMA Administration is a secretive, opaque regime that covers up every hole at the first whiff of a scandal. In a vacuum like that, people will naturally (with emphasis on “naturally”) speculate. Anybody who says he has not speculated is a bare-faced liar. The media is not an inanimate machine. It is made up of people who behave as normal human beings do. To expect the media, and the people at large for that matter, to keep silent in the face of a vacuum is stupidity.
Do you think media would speculate if GMA allowed executive department officials to attend Senate hearings and tell the truth? Do you think media would speculate if this Administration allowed free access to public documents (e.g., NEDA minutes on NBN)?
So, if this government is the object of speculations, it only has itself to blame. Not the media.
Create a vacuum and all sorts of things will fill it in. To rage against it is futile. The only thing that will stop speculation in its track is – yes, Bencard and Tsinoy – transparency. Something Gloria does not have.
The free media is first and foremost a business. The freedom to publish is in the end a competitive business where if people do not buy or listen or tune in your business dies.
Anyone who reads, listens or views the news is like a buyer of goods and services – ‘let the buyer beware’
Since the power to communicate with the whole community endows the owners of media awesome powers varying perspectives can be gleaned from media outlets. The self interest of the owners mostly prevails in what is and what is not pursued.
Once again most can embelish or spin the information they dessiminate.
Anyone who reads, listens or views the news is like a buyer of goods and services – ‘let the buyer beware’
If one wants intelligent information and discussion you will have to go to the premier news outlets in the world. In the Philippines there is only one – in my opinion – Businessweek. The rest are glorified tabloids.
In the U.S. most Americans do not watch the public channel because there is no basic cutlture of philosophy in the U.S. You are taught to be practical and educations is narrowed on getting a skill to survive. In Europe it is different. You get both.
Everything that is published and broadcast is decided on by a select and small group of men and women. They always will have the political economy (their own interest) in the back of their mind.
One must not also forget that the pracrtice of law in the U.S. is adversarial. The soveriegn is the constituion. So even the government is subject to oversight by their own agencies and the other branches of the government since the actual sovereign is the U.S. Constitution.
The push and pull between the executive and the legislature and even agencies under the executive when they challenge their commander in chef is bound by the Constituion.
The evolution of differnet forms of authoritarian governments to this stage will take time as the principles of the individual rights, responsibilities and accountabilties of everyone under a sovereign constitution will entail a mass of the population who are economically independent and dependent on each other.
Modern ecopnomies have evovled wherein the relationship of labor and capital is joined at the hip. One cannot exist without the other. The government should only be a referee. But how to get to that stage is the continuing struggle. Vested interest will always dictate the pace of change.
The will always demand the status quo. That is why you have the right and left. That is the distinction that brought out the division. Left, the progreessive side for change. Right for the status quo. Hence the term the flat earth society. You can glean who belong to which side.
“I guess what I am really saying is this….go ahead, talk about the problem…but please stop embellishing…seek the truth but don’t just rely on what media is saying…they have their own agenda….†– Tsinoy
TSINOY, IF ONLY THOSE PROUD TSINOYS LIKE YOU WILL JUST BE PROUD TO CALL THEMSELVES PINOYS, THE PROBLEM OF THE COUNTRY IS ABOUT 90 PERCENT SOLVED. IT’S NOT EVEN THE SYSTEM PER SE. IT’S THEM. THOSE PROUD TSINOYS.
IT IS THEM TOO, THOSE PROUD TSINOYS, WHO OWN AND CONTROL THE PHLIPPINE MEDIA. CHECK IT OUT. SO WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?
“That’s exactly the point….we should stop whining and start trying to fix the problem in our own small ways and not wait for government and the regime to fix the problem.†– Tsinoy
THE GOVERNMENT AND THE REGIME ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. BUT AGAIN THE MAIN PROBLEM ARE THOSE PROUD TSINOYS WHO CANNOT BE PROUD TO BE PINOYS.
“still the same feudalistic datus ruling over their natives with the occasional piece of meat thrown in to placate them. And that is what I meant when I said that people in our country are not yet ready for democracy.†– Tsinoy
DON’T TRY TO EMBELLISH BUT SEEK THE TRUTH. HERE’S ONE SCHOLARLY OBSERVATION FROM ROELM IN THE OTHER THREAD:
EQUALIZAR SAID IT BEST:
WE WILL BE READY FOR DEMOCRACY FROM OLIGOPOLY AND PLUTOCRACY IF THOSE PROUD TSINOYS WILL BE READY TO BE PROUD AS PINOYS. PERIOD.
NOT THE GOVERNMENT, NOT THE POLITICIANS, NOT THE SYSTEM OR NOT EVEN THE PRESENT REGIME BUT THOSE PROUD TSINOYS, WHO ARE NOT PROUD PINOYS, ARE THE REAL PROBLEM OF THE COUNTRY, THE REAL ENEMY.
Question is, are our newspapers and news outlets free of any agendas? No
A brief glance at the history of the newspaper, the profile its owners, a simple comparison of the treatment of the same news in the different papers demonstrated beyond all doubt that the constituent elements that go to make up “the newspaper†are very varied here and abroad.
In America: Washington Times (conservative),Washington Post /New York Times (liberal)
In the UK: a whole rainbow of political views, from extreme left , center, right, extreme right (Guardian, Times, The Observer, Independent ,Daily Telegraph)
In The Philippines:
Bulletin(classified ads on Sunday)
Star (Belmonte clan)
Manila Standard Today(Razon)
Tribune (Ninez)
Inquirer (Prietos)
Malaya (Macasaet)
I must admit I miss Chino Roces’ MANILA TIMES.
I totally agree with the Shaman about Gloria’s regime being secretive, opaque, and deceptive. I also agree that we have all the leeway to speculate, and should take advantage of it.
I would just add this caveat: speculations, particularly when done by the mainstream press, should be subjected to tests against reality. Balik tayo sa Batasan bombing: we know it’s a bomb, but can we speculate that Gloria ordered it, as some have suggested in this thread? The evidence says no.
Evidence serves as a test in reality for any speculation, and we shouldn’t treat unfounded speculation with the same respect as speculation rooted in evidence.
In fact, we should be suspicious of assertions made without evidence to back them up.
Carl Sagan suggested a “Baloney Detection Kit” that can help us find the truth in any assertion; I suggest we learn to use it.
shaman, of course the media is free to speculate – so is everyone, including you. but whoever feeds it to the public must make it clear that it’s speculation, not a fact, and there is no available proof to substantiate it at the moment, if that is the case. it’s just a matter of being honest and fair, not deception and con artistry.
secrecy of one party is no excuse for falsely fabricating “facts”, c’mon.
old geezer: in the real world of the Philippines,it’s hard to search for proof to substantiate everything.
No tranparency at all.
Executive privilege and EO 464 are used as shields for cover-ups.
“There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots – suspicion.â€ÂDemosthenes
vic:
yup, you wouldn’t expect that sort of behaviour from the CBC, but the CBC isn’t just the government mouthpiece, it won’t hesitate to place erring MPs and other government officials in their place, albeit gently. and the media really do police themselves over there. here, well…
of course it won’t. but im pointing out a basic thing here. if the media there is even worser than here, why are people there not asking for more moderation from these media outlets?
perhaps bec they know that the end of democracy starts with little things. first it’s asking media to be responsible. then next, govt will define which is responsible and which isn’t irresponsible reporting. before too long, what we’ll have is a muzzled press.
i hope you can appreciate the import of that bencard.
our media leaves much to be desired. but it is a working media that is better left alone to evolve responsibility on their own.
since media is consumable, then it’s up to the consumers to demand such responsibility from the seller. stop patronizing those who are obviously irresponsible.
i’ve stopped watching GMA and ABS-CBN news. simply abominable the programming of these two. no story is followed through, and overkill in other stories. plus, they’re still at it with infotainment.
for my news, I read inquirer. then I watch CNN and BBC.
Equalizer: “in the real world of the Philippines,it’s hard to search for proof to substantiate everything.”
That still doesn’t justify believing speculation without evidence. Besides, official cover-ups may close some areas of investigation, but they can’t close them all.
Like I said (in a comment that’s still awaiting moderation):
Every speculation should be tested against the evidence. Evidence serves as a test in reality, and we shouldn’t treat unfounded speculation with the same respect as speculation rooted in evidence.
In fact, we should be suspicious of assertions made without evidence to back them up. Even if the government makes it hard to collect evidence; no excuses.
Bencard, I think I know how you would headline a newstory wherein your reporter received a copy of the Garci recordings: REPORTER RECEIVES RECORDING (WHETHER ORIGINAL OR NOT IS NOT CLEAR) OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS OF TWO PERSONS (their sex cannot be ascertained from the recordings)
But your:
Headline: OPPOSITION ACCUSES GMA OF ELECTORAL FRAUD
is a story about the opposition’s interpretation of the Garci Recordings not of the Garci recordings themselves.
and you other headline:
on the alleged pay-off, i would put:
Headline: GOVERNOR CLAIMS RECEIPT OF CASH IN MALACANANG
is accurate but why include Malacanang at all when it was received from somebody not from Malacanang but from another governor. But the more accurate headline would be: GOVERNOR CLAIMS RECEIPT OF CASH FROM AIDE WHO CLAIMS RECEIPT OF CASH FROM ANOTHER GOVERNOR WHEN THEY WERE IN MALACANANG
Well, you may want to redefine what a headline is.
“no story is followed through.. DevilADV8″
That’s also my biggest complaint!
One-day headlines!That’s why the government moves from one mischief to another.
We have no memory.
“Even if the government makes it hard to collect evidence; no excuses.”
The best protection for the people is not necessarily to believe everything people tell them: Demosthenes
“i’ve stopped watching GMA and ABS-CBN news. simply abominable the programming of these two. no story is followed through, and overkill in other stories. plus, they’re still at it with infotainment.”- devils
__________________________
I think part of the reason is the kind of market these networks have and it can be gauge by the commercials they show.
CNN have 5 star hotels,airline companies,resorts,insurance,luxury cars, laptops, etc… while these local networks have shampoos,skin products,detergents, fastfood chain… etc and of course lest we forget, the political ads during election campaign.
I’ve said before that a dictatorship here in the Philippines would be worthwhile if it is used to break up (i.e. spring clean) the current elite of the country. In China, Mao destroyed the oligarchy and the warlords which paved the way for Deng’s reforms. In Vietnam, they did the same which is why we had the phenomenon of the Boat People. That cleared the decks for their subsequent take off.
In non-communist States like Singapore, one good thing the dictator LKY did was to force integration among races in favor of a Singaporean-identity. This is done via mundane rules like quotas among various races (Chinese, Malay and Indian) in terms of housing block occupancy. Over here, a dictator should break up the ghettoes in Binondo and Greenhills. Also, s/he should imprison any ‘Tsinoy’ who is reported to be prohibiting his son/daughter from marrying a ‘Pinoy’. Any Tsinoy who leaves will of course be allowed to do so minus his capital which should stay in country for the benefit of the people.
Then maybe the next generation would be rid of this BS dichotomy between Tsinoys/Pinoys.
Equalizer:
maybe i should really get cable. or just read my news on the net, as i usually do. because seriously, if you still watch local free TV, how can you take a news program that says, in the same tone, “senado inimbistiga ang bigayan sa malacañang” and “bea and john lloyd nag-aaway nga ba?”…
cvj:
did you court a Chinese girl and had a really great relationship, just that their parents were the problem? i did. hahahaha! i wasn’t chinese enough.
but come on man, is it still like that nowadays?
are the filipinos of chinese descent still the “real enemy” as watchful so loudly proclaims?
aren’t Filipinos who aren’t afraid to trample on their countrymen for a bit of the “good life” just as much to blame?
we are all guilty of a myopia of interests–they’re only clear so long as it involves the welfare of the small group they consider their own. it’s all just a matter of degree.
as i told bencard though, it’s those who are hopelessly myopic who are running things, owning things, and making the most money in this place.
too bad for the rest of us.
Bencard,
Speculations in the media, more often than not, come in the form of opinions based on available facts, or on allegations from one side that are not controverted by the other side. These opinions are found in editorials and columns, that’s why you find them in the “Opinion” pages of newspapers. Reporters, on the other hand, report the opinions of other people, usually public figures, and perhaps some ordinary people, if only to have a glimpse of the public pulse. Opinions are opinions and nobody can claim outright that they are “facts”, even if they are based on partial evidence. Now, if someone thinks that my opinion, for instance, all things considered, conforms to reality, I can’t blame that someone if he believes my opinion is “fact” and act on it accordingly.
It is not necessary for media to always preface its reports or opinion pieces with phrases such as, “What I will say or report is not backed up by evidence beyond reasonable doubt.” (Do they do that in your neck of the woods?) The public is not as stupid as some people think it is to be treated so condescendingly.
The primary responsibility of the media is to the public interest, and not to bend to the government’s will. Its main duty is to bring to the people information that impinge on public welfare. Even a government lie is information that has to be reported. For sure, a lie is not a “fact”, is it? But it has to be reported just the same.
It is through the information that the media provides that public opinion is formed. And this public opinion is, in turn, reflected in the media. If the government wants public opinion to be on its side, it has to give out facts that the media can report, not lies. If the government wants to win the public opinion war, it has to stop being secretive and cease covering things up. Because, again, the public is not that stupid.
In the end, the moral is: the government must promote public interest all the time, every time. That’s the only way to keep public trust.
And if government does that, for sure, it will be reported in the media.
tonio, my constant hanging out in the blogosphere would give you an idea on how good i am in initiating real world personal relations. Anyway, when the time comes, i’m sure a Pinoy brigade can be formed made up of disappointed would-be suitors like you to inform on misguided parents who can then be reeducated.
As i said above, a significant portion of Filipinos are of ‘Chinese’-descent since most of us came from the Mainland or Taiwan. It’s only that integration into mainstream society was disrupted during the Spanish & American periods so the latecomers haven’t been able to integrate (maybe through no fault of theirs). Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore saw that such internal-balkanization is not good for national development so he took steps to ensure integration and equity. We should do the same.
As far as i see, it is the elite in Wack-Wack and other enclaves who come up with self-serving deals the costs of which will be passed on to the rest of us Filipinos in the form of loans. Aside from this, who are you referring to?
Which is why it is time to take into account the welfare of the great majority of Filipinos. The elites have occupied their current positions of power and privilege for too long with nothing to show for it. It’s time to change that.
“I think part of the reason is the kind of market these networks have and it can be gauge(d) by the commercials they show.
“CNN have 5 star hotels,airline companies,resorts,insurance,luxury cars, laptops, etc… while these local networks have shampoos,skin products,detergents, fastfood chain… etc and of course lest we forget, the political ads during election campaign.” qwert
No use complaining about the market. A vast majority of Filipinos are poor. It’s a fact of life that no one can deny. All businesses, the media networks included, always go for the largest market. No wonder, then, that you get ads in GMA and ABS-CBN for “shampoos,skin products,detergents, fastfood chain… etc.”
Same thing with CNN. It has a particular audience, that’s why you get ads for “5 star hotels,airline companies,resorts,insurance,luxury cars, laptops, etc”.
In other words, the networks are just acting rationally. You can’t fault them for that.
“In other words, the networks are just acting rationally. You can’t fault them for that.”-shaman
_________________
Right on target Shaman, one cannot fault these media outfits. So, it is incumbent upon the government and any government for that matter to alleviate the plight of the majority of our people-the poor.Good governance equals better people equals better media.
mlq3,
Bencard and Proud to be Tsinoy on the right and all the others on the left. Interesting divide. I wonder if it is all about the age difference, as in generation gap perhaps?
Thanks.
cvj:
an interesting proposition… how, besides the installation of a “benevolent dictatorship” will this happen you think?
shaman:
i can get it with the drivel on TV Shaman, I can. after all, networks have to pay they’re talents. and they are businesses after all, with a bottom line to protect, but the news? must news anchors and reporters get in on the act too?
The more important question is “benevolent to whom”? In my own blog entry, i distinguished between a populist dictatorship where the benefit goes to the masa and an elitist dictatorship which favors the current powers.
As the Nigerian proverb goes “He whose head is used to open the coconut does not get to participate in the eating.” I’m not one to endorse a dictatorship, but if it ever has to come to that, you can guess whose heads i would prefer to use as coconuts.
on a question related to the bombing, and i hope someone can give us some behavioural angle here…
when an assassin uses a bomb, what is he saying?
hi there bencard,
thanks for the backgrounder, we are both from bicol! you have a bit of nora aunor in your history — selling bottles of water at trainstations!
re: this patriotism bit issue. i wonder if you got the patriotism bug when you moved to America, rather than when you were here in the Philippines. i think the challenge for all of us Pinoys is to develop love of country while we are here in the land of our birth, rather than developing judgmental attitudes regarding patriotism when we are safely cocooned in environments where love of country is a given. i agree with you that americans in general are a patriotic bunch — moreso than Pinoys — i say this with a bit of sadness — because historically, Americans shared a lot of historical events that united them — while we pinoys are still struggling, and the pivotal moments we had were quite hilaw or nipped in the bud — Phil. Revolution of 1896-98, Edsa I and II, etc.
and re: alice in wonderland, i’m not referring to you being in America and it being a wonderland — i’m referring to a state of mind when a human being make pronouncements based on standards that cannot be realistically or humanely applied in a given setting. i hope you get my point.
Just a note for Proud to be Tsinoy.
You will agree with me that compared to some of the countries around RP, Pinas is a democracy. When you say that Pinas “…is NOT ready for democracy”, it would be like you smacking yourself in the face.
In Malaysia, Tsinoys are not treated as first class citizens the way you are treated in Pinas (because Pinas is a democracy), you will not be able to go to a Malaysian university as easily as you may in Pinas (because Pinas is a democracy), you will have to pay more for the same type of home that other non-Tsinoys of Malay stock and which you don’t have to in Pinas (because Pinas is a democracy), your children will have lesser access to opportunities and will find that many of them will have to live lives in less luxurious circumstances unless they get to be drivers or aide to foreign expats, etc. and that is because as a Tsinoy, you will be non-Bumiputra
You will be treated a second class citizen in Malaysia even if you have been lucky enough to have the trappings of wealth and splendour because you are a Tsinoy which is absolutely the opposite in Pinas. In that sense, the Philippines is a democracy and is ready for democracy, otherwise, where would you be?
So let’s have less of this “Philippines is not ready for democracy” crap because if Pinas were not ready, you would be considered second class and perhaps, third class citizen for being a Tsinoy just like in Malaysia.
Catch Us If You Can
(by the Palace Gang 5)
Here they come again, mmmm-mm-mm
Catch us if you can, mmmm-mm-mm
Time to get a move on, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might
* “As far as the Palace is concerned, with this impeachment issue settled, at least at the committee level, we can now move on and tackle other issues that really matter to the people,†Press Secretary and Presidential Spokesman Ignacio R. Bunye told members of the media this afternoon in Malacanang.(Press Briefing 11/15)
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
* According to the President, the preoccupation with politics does not contribute to stability, policy continuity, security and peace and order that the country needs to move forward. “Indeed, it’s time for a new beginning and when we talk about a new beginning we talk about moving on,” she said.(KBP meeting 11/15)
Now we gotta run, mmmm-mm-mm
No more time for fun, mmmm-mm-mm
When you’re getting angry, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might
* “Too much preoccupation with politics does not promote stability, continuity, security and order that we need to move Team Philippines forward,†Bunye said.
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Yeahhhhh
“So let’s have less of this “Philippines is not ready for democracy†crap because if Pinas were not ready, you would be considered second class and perhaps, third class citizen for being a Tsinoy just like in Malaysia.MBW”
Well said!
of course it won’t. but im pointing out a basic thing here. if the media there is even worser than here, why are people there not asking for more moderation from these media outlets?
Devil,
I think its because people are more discerning in other countries like America with regards to news.
” alice in wonderland, i’m not referring to you being in America and it being a wonderland  i’m referring to a state of mind when a human being make pronouncements based on standards that cannot be realistically or humanely applied in a given setting. i hope you get my point.”
——————————————————-
Madonna,
Are you saying Bencards advocacies are not realialistic or humane.? I dont believe so. Following the rule of law is even the easiest and practical way of getting out of this mess.
I find bencards advocacies as principle based. Especially the principle of Justice and Fairness. And I prefer principles over morality and emotionalism. Becuase there no real yardstick for morality and emotionalism. They are highly subjective.
“I find bencards advocacies as principle based. Especially the principle of Justice and Fairness. Rego”
“I assure my countrymen that the basic principles of justice and fairness will always be enforced without fear or favor. No one but no one can set conditions for the dispensation of justice, be he a political figure or an ordinary criminal”-GMA Press Conference, Malacanang
April 10, 2001
Sana nga.
Bullocks! In the absolute, justice doesn’t always go with fairness precisely because fairness is subjective.
see the results so far on the “Worst President Ever”poll
Spot on cvj! “Which is why 70% of Americans believed that Saddam was involved in 9-11. “
rego, you would be wrong w/regards to America. a large segment of that country’s population is even more brainwasher-friendly than our kababayans here.
shaman, just call a “speculation” speculation. is that too much to ask?
for rego and old geezer:
A favorite bushism for you!
“All of us in America want there to be fairness when it comes to justice.”â€â€President George W.Bush ,Washington, D.C., Sept. 20, 2007
another one for old geezer:
“I feel strongly that there ought to be fair justice.”â€â€Washington, D.C., Sept. 20, 2007
And they don’t have the excuse of poverty or lack of schooling to fall back on.
Despite the so many similarities between Bushie and Gloria,I still see one BIG difference:
Bushie always says the wrong things in a very sincere way(hence the funny bushisms)
Gloria always says the right things in a very insincere way
(hence the big credibility gap)
Which is better ?
The correct term is micromania- a pathological disorder of self-deprecatuon or belief that someone is very small. Most Filipinos who are suffering from nearsightedness is also suffering from this illness just like concluding that all people want a military coup just because his website polled about a hundred people who said so. hohoho
“I think its because people are more discerning in other countries like America with regards to news.”
I totally disagree with this statement.
Americans are not more discerning compared to other nationalities. Life in the US doesn’t revolve around politics. There are lot of things to keep Americans busy. Sports is a a good example. Football championship in January, NCAA in March, NBA in July, baseball in September. A lot of Americas play golf, bowling, tennis etc. Americans also love to drive around the US especially during the major holidays. Driving 100 miles one way is an ordinary thing here. And when Americans work, they just work. So when Bush said ‘I need to invade Iraq because of the WMD’ the ordinary American will just say ‘I’m busy finishing my basement. Here’s $1 Trillion and don’t bother me again’.
rego dear,
katawa naman ang rule of law and fairness na yan — what a sorry excuse! when a pathetic head of state who also happen to be head of govt. like la gloria fails on the morality card (lying, cheating in the most brazen manner possible) — she has lost all credibility to invoke the rule of law. the rule of law in the first place is based upon premises that certain preconditions of justice (punishments for those who cheat for instance) be met. of course morality is subjective, that’s why we’re having debates eh? but they can spin all they want about moving on, that filipinos are living better now blah blah — but history will certainly mark gloria as the leader who took her being economist too seriously and in a wrong way — you know acting in way that everything/everyone has a price.
“But history will certainly mark gloria as the leader who took her being economist too seriously and in a wrong way  you know acting in way that everything/everyone has a price.madonna”
“Dictators are rulers who always look good until the last ten minutesâ€Â
Aha…so the real truth comes out…..that there is true reverse racism also in the Philippines! (Just read Watchful eyes comments.) Not all Tsinoys are like that. You tend to generalize. I for one believe all of the people in this forum have the Philippines’ interests foremost in their minds which is why they are reading Manolo’s works and make their comments accordingly.
Just because I am proud of my roots doesn’t mean I don’t love the Philippines. I could’ve stayed in the US when I had the opportunity but went home (with emphasis on what my mind thinks of as home, by the way) because I do believe in the country.
I am certainly not saying that there aren’t any bad Tsinoys out there. Nor am I saying that all Filipinos are plainly bad. It seems people here like to generalize and put words into other people’s mouths.
It is certainly quite sad that a simple comment on why I don’t think democracy works in the present circumstance can actually turn into a racial diatribe in this forum. And I thought people are are intelligent enough to not use the racist card.
A discussion to rebut my thesis would have been enough as what mlq3 did. But unfortunately, even the intelligent people in this forum are not really ready for democracy. Such intolerance of other people’s racial origin just proves my point.
Mr. Buencamino
After having read your comments, I think I understand now what you guys are trying to say and agree with it to some extent.
Tama ka about your comments below (sorry don;t know how to make quotes)
Assuming your description is correct, then it seems that both sides can live with the arrangement. That, in its own way, is a demovratic arramgement.
There is a Malay legend about this – a people were saved by a warrior. They made him king and they swore loyalty, obedience etc. but on one condition… their contract would end once he became unjust.
Moral of the story: The essence of democracy is jusice.
So when you say a people is not ready for democracy, you are in effect saying that people don’t know what and when they are not being governed justly.
I think people know. I think people will not tolerate injustice. The idea that people will go along as long as they have a full stomach is a lie against humanity because it degrades us to the level of animals. It is an idea propagated by tyrants and would be tyrants.
If injustice persists and pervades in our society, it’s not for lack of wanting to right the situation. It’s something else.
cvj on, “The elites have occupied their current positions of power and privilege for too long with nothing to show for it. It’s time to change that.”
There is state power of taxation. If they cheat their taxes, take their property and put them behind bars like how the US put the mobs out of business. If reputable auditing company SGV helped them, then have Phil Attorney General investigate the firm for wrongdoing and put it out of business as well like Arthur Andersen.
Or it cannot be done because the padrino system is so ingrained across every section of Philippine society.
Hi CVJ
Interestingly enough, inasmuch as I am being accused of wanting to have a dictatorship in our country, I am very surprised by your statement below…hmmmmm
“I’ve said before that a dictatorship here in the Philippines would be worthwhile if it is used to break up (i.e. spring clean) the current elite of the country. In China, Mao destroyed the oligarchy and the warlords which paved the way for Deng’s reforms. In Vietnam, they did the same which is why we had the phenomenon of the Boat People. That cleared the decks for their subsequent take off.
In non-communist States like Singapore, one good thing the dictator LKY did was to force integration among races in favor of a Singaporean-identity. This is done via mundane rules like quotas among various races (Chinese, Malay and Indian) in terms of housing block occupancy. Over here, a dictator should break up the ghettoes in Binondo and Greenhills. Also, s/he should imprison any ‘Tsinoy’ who is reported to be prohibiting his son/daughter from marrying a ‘Pinoy’. Any Tsinoy who leaves will of course be allowed to do so minus his capital which should stay in country for the benefit of the people.
Then maybe the next generation would be rid of this BS dichotomy between Tsinoys/Pinoys.”
MBW
The reason why I came up with that thesis really is that we as a collective people, (oh, kasama na ako diyan, para tumigil na yung mga racists), always seem to bitch and complain but we don’t really do anything about it.
And if we do something about it, we get ourselves into a worse situation (ERAP, then GMA).
Our people (as a whole, not the intellectual elites in this forum, lest I get vicious vitriols again), are always taken by the song and dance routines of these politicians. We lack discernment in that respect. We also are not responsible enough as a people to choose the right person to lead our country. We let the intellectual and capitalist elites decide what is good for our country because the collective people basically has given up that role to them. Why do I say that? They accept the padrino system in this country. They accept the system in place.
This is not to say this group should be silent. We SHOULD make noise. But this noise should be noise that comes with reason and evidence, not speculations and innuendos.
So am I starting to become clear now?
“I am certainly not saying that there aren’t any bad Tsinoys out there. Nor am I saying that all Filipinos are plainly bad.”
This is the kind of statement that irritates me.You try to differentiate yourselves as Tsinoys DIFFERENT from Filipinos.As a 3rd generation Filipino with Chinese blood,start thinking as a Filipino ,period.
Don’t accuse me again of racial slur.Far from it.I probably have as much Chinese blood as you.
Equalizer
Then stop also using my handle as the basis of your argument. We keep going back to it. Just talk about the issues ….
“I could’ve stayed in the US when I had the opportunity but went home (with emphasis on what my mind thinks of as home, by the way) because I do believe in the country.”
Good.fÄ“i cháng gÇŽn xiè ï¼Â
My friend,I will be very glad to discuss issues with you.xÃÂng Ġ。
emilie on, “our people not yet ready for democracy? or is it our leaders having no regard for what it means?”
My own answer is both. While it true that our leaders have no shame at all on personal interest, it is also true that the people who elected local officials up to congress have not demonstrated the will to replace those who forget their duty to serve constituency interest first. The clannish family for over the years have literally dictated the outcome. Then Tsinoy is correct that Filipinos are not ready for democracy (to work – electing leaders is not enough).
madonna, if you have already made up your mind, based on media accounts and claims of her political enemies, that pgma committed “lying and cheating in the most brazen manner possible”, without an iota of competent evidence, then there’s no use having this debate. you believe what you want to believe, and i’m not about to prevent you from doing that, even if i can.
the only problem with your personal “verdict” is that it doesn’t count for anything other than just another anti-gma diatribe. this is why notwithstanding your group’s constant whining, gma is still the president and all your pathetic efforts at ousting her ended up in failure after miserable failure.
pardon my french, but i have to say it like it is!
“Then stop also using my handle as the basis of your argument. We keep going back to it. Just talk about the issues ….”
then stop using your handle as the basis of your argument too.
peace.
nàjiù zhè me dìng le ， kÄ› bié fÇŽn huÇ hÄ“ ï¼Â
Thanks Equalizer, alam ko naman friends talaga tayo. We are all in this forum for our country’s betterment, albeit we may have different ideas on how to go about it….
old geezer:gentle reminder for you:“Dictators are rulers who always look good until the last ten minutesâ€Â
I never did use my handle to argue a point until somebody started it. I was just talking about my thesis and for some reason, somebody picked up my handle and attacked my racial origins….so I hope everything is now clear.
PTSP:xiè xiè ， zhēn shì tai má fán nǠle 。
devilsadvocate on, “don’t like to hear bad news? tune in to govt media stations, all you’ll hear are good news.”
In business world, good news is not always good and bad news is not always bad. In both cases exist business opportunities. The problem is how accurate those reporting so you can have proper business decision. In the Philippine setting, there is just too much political garbage to filter out so you can look at what is realizable.
Equalizer
I am not so good at writing pinyin….anyway…mei won ti….
PTSP:Proud to be a special Pinoy
lái zhÃ…Âng guó yÄ« dìng yào chÄ« jiÇŽo zǠ。
old geezer likes french kiss too?
Dodong
Thanks. You actually picked up on what I meant. It works both ways kasi for me. It’s our fault as a people why we have these kinds of leaders. The people accept them for who they are.
It’s only when malaki na ang corruption, dun lang sila a-alma. but, why not protest against the petty corruption in their own area? Why condone such things at all?
That’s is what I meant by the Philippines not being ready for democracy. ALl the people should be responsible to make sure it works. As of now, di ko pa rin nakikita. We still leave it to the elites to make the decisions.
So you think that by calling us ‘intellectual elites’, you would be spared the vitriol? Only an elitist can think that.
Anyway, in the matter of GMA, the masa were on to her way before the ‘intellectual elites’ had a clue.
By ‘they’, i hope you are not excluding the Tsinoys. On the eve of Erap’s election victory, Wilson Street (in Greenhills) was lined with banners Congratulating the President elect. After all, kowtowing is ingrained in the ‘Chinese mind’, isn’t it?
Equalizer
Are you in CHina now? I will certainly look you up when I get a chance to go there….PM na lang kita. Wo di putonghua bo hen hao. Hao qio di shi chien may yo chiang putonghua le. Chia li to shi chinag Min nan hua.
cvj
Yes, including the Tsinoys….(pero di ako kasama diyan…I think it was Roco I voted for then….pero malayo talaga ang bilang….)
By the way, everybody kowtowed to Erap then siempre, nanalo siya eh….
I voted for Lim. As it happened, the number of votes for the other candidates and against Erap was more than those who voted for him. The problem is that our system did not allow for a run-off.
During the campaign period in 1998, i was really upset when the 30 businessmen (a number of them Tsinoys) came out in support of Erap. I thought to myself, the masa had their misguided reason for favoring Erap because they saw him as being on their side, but these businessmen should know better. They were supposed to be ‘discerning individuals’. It was plain and simple opportunism which to me is unforgivable.
old geezer: Lâche pas la patate!
cvj:I also voted for Lim.
But ,I’m disappointed now at the way he is kowtowing to Erap.
What do you mean by ‘siempre’? Is that what your Chinese heritage has taught you? Or is it the businessman in you? Or both? And you blame the Pinoys for lack of discernment? I think we’re finding out who among us is ‘not ready for democracy’.
I miss ramrod.hope he comes back in this blog.
ricelander on, “How should the press have treated the news on, say, the “Hello Garci†scandal in the manner that should have made Bencard, PTBT, Dodong and the rest happy?”
It is not a question of happiness, it is a question of right or wrong. The fundamental issue, is illegal wiretapping of President of the Philippines, military’s Commander in Chief which is treason and punishable by death. Instead the press were jumping the gun on the President. It lost the leverage on the military (if focused and prosecuted) to uncover the its role in 2004 presidential election. Huge lost opportunity.
“It is not a question of happiness, it is a question of right or wrong. ”
Is stealing an election right or wrong?Pls answer categorically.
Tsinoy, please read my post again, not once but many times, because it specifies rather than generalizes. It says -
IF ONLY THOSE PROUD TSINOYS LIKE YOU WILL JUST BE PROUD TO CALL THEMSELVES PINOYS
THE MAIN PROBLEM ARE THOSE PROUD TSINOYS WHO CANNOT BE PROUD TO BE PINOYS.
IF THOSE PROUD TSINOYS WILL BE READY TO BE PROUD AS PINOYS.
THOSE PROUD TSINOYS, WHO ARE NOT PROUD PINOYS, ARE THE REAL PROBLEM OF THE COUNTRY, THE REAL ENEMY.
Where is the generalization?
If you are “proud of (your) roots” and “love the Philippines” because you are A PROUD PINOY then don’t feel guilty because I am not talking about you. You are not the problem, the enemy of the Filipinos.
I consider Equalizer as a modern-day Rizal, a tsinoy who was a proud pinoy, and who like MBW and cvj will defend the Filipinos, the Philippines, their values and belief systems from insults and denigrations, especially if based on unfounded generalizations.
cvj
I meant “Dahil (not then) siempre nanalo siya.” Doesn’t mean I agree with it. It’s the reality of the situation then.
And CVJ, just because I said we are not ready doesn’t imply I am more ready for democracy than others. I too have my baggage to deal with. I too have some discernment issues. At least I am honest enough to know I have them. I am not like some other people in this forum who feels so morally superior and so all knowing.
manuelbuencamino on, “I think people know. I think people will not tolerate injustice. The idea that people will go along as long as they have a full stomach is a lie against humanity because it degrades us to the level of animals. It is an idea propagated by tyrants and would be tyrants.”
This probably described the current comatose – people tolerated the Congress vote on impeachment, no large people reaction nationwide as long they have full stomach. Maybe that is how they wanted it – no impeachment of the President. There is no survey if the people agree who their congressmen actions, or if they don’t, do they wanted to initiate recall as provided in the local government code.
Watchful eye
If below is your take of me, then I fully agree. Maybe I felt being alluded to lang kasi…if it was a mistaken allusion on my part, then I am sorry….Peace bro…
“If you are “proud of (your) roots†and “love the Philippines†because you are A PROUD PINOY then don’t feel guilty because I am not talking about you. You are not the problem, the enemy of the Filipinos.”
Equalizer
Stealing an election IS wrong. I agree with you on that.
PTSP:mÃÂng tiÄÂn jiàn 。
Tsao An! Ming Tien Jian.
WE:thanks.Are you alright,sir?
That’s a good admission because the reality is we all have our blind spots. Whether it’s the Bindondo crowd, the Wack-wack crowd or those from Tondo and the Provinces. The only consolation is, our blind spots are in different locations. The Upper and Middle class saw through Erap while the masa were blind to his faults. The opposite is true in the case of Gloria Arroyo where the masa instinctively did not trust her from the very beginning while many in the Upper and Middle classes are still defending her up to now.
This is precisely the reason why we need genuine democracy, i.e. to take care of each other’s blind spots. No group or person in our Philippine society is so superior and all knowing to act as a guide. Everyone is imperfect in some way. Now a democracy only works if the process of aggregating decisions (e.g. elections) is seen to be fair and just which is why Gloria Arroyo’s subversion of that process at the highest levels is so wrong.
Tell me Madonna, have you ever lied in life? I bet you did. Not once not twice but many times over. And its teh same case with those peopel in the opposistion who is crying out loud about Glorias lies. Then if we apply your rule of morality, that makes you and all the people in the Philippines ( including me ) not so credible too. Then this forum becomes a group of people that is not credible discussant
Now if we apply the rule law. We will be looking at the impact of that lies. And if we feel that a law is broken.Then we go to courts and file appropriate charges. The the wheel of justice will just take over. Wala na tayong pagdedeatehan pa about the issue of lying. Then we can do other things like really attending the flight of teh poor or anything that can really make these country move forward.
manuelbuencamino on, “The only responsibility of the press is not to lie.”
Idealistic. No one measures the press to its responsibility – except for actual libel charges. The large consuming public turn to newspaper with punchline and sensational stories which drive up readerships and advertising revenues.
CVJ
Agree about taking care of each other’s blind spots. My point though, if you read my threads, have been about us Pinoys being blind all these years. Despite nga the fact that we’ve gone through FM, Erap and GMA, we still are truly blind. ANd that’s why I thought maybe, we aren;t ready for democracy.
I am not saying that we shouldn’t plant the seeds. I am saying AT THIS TIME, we aren’t ready. We need to train people to be more discerning. We need to make people, especially the masses understand the implications of maintaining this feudal system. We need to make people understand what their responsibilities are in a democracy.We need to let people know they DO HAVE a stake in the system, and therefore, they SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE to make it work. As of now, that’s sense of responsibility is not in place at all.
I never advocated a dictatorship as some people think.
“It is not a question of happiness, it is a question of right or wrong.dodong â€Â
Is stealing an election right or wrong?Pls answer categorically.
will u answer?
Responsibility entails some sacrifice on everybody’s part, and that’s where things falter for our people. Once we start talking about sacrifice, most of the time, tapos na ang boxing even without throwing the first punch. Yun ang tunay na ibig kong sabihin sa sinasabi kong di pa tayo handa sa demokrasya na iaasam nating lahat.
dOdOng said ‘It is not a question of happiness, it is a question of right or wrong. The fundamental issue, is illegal wiretapping of President of the Philippines, military’s Commander in Chief which is treason and punishable by death.”
Hilo ka na naman dOdOng? Wala talagang patutunguhan ang pamimilosopo mo.
cvj on, “Which is why 70% of Americans believed that Saddam was involved in 9-11.”
The decision to invade Iraq was approved by joint Congress on October 2002 based but not limited to the following, (1) non-compliance of UN resolutions, (2) alleged (not actual) weapons of mass destructions, (3) brutal repression of its people, (4) Iraq use of WMD on other nations (Iran) and on its people (Kurds & Shitte), (5) assassination attempt of president GHW Bush, (6) members of Al Queda were known to be in Iraq, (7) Iraq aiding and harboring terrorist organizations, (8) to fight terrorists including 9/11 wherever they are, (9) authority under the Constitution, (10) Iraq liberation act of 1998 to remove Saddam Hussein.
The absence of 9/11 connectivity and lack of WMD is not enough to impeach Bush. The authority to invade Iraq is iron clad. The world perception including yours is different from the americans.
supremo on, “Wala talagang patutunguhan ang pamimilosopo mo”.
You are free to express what you think. Thanks. However, readers can tell if you are making sense or not.
The answer to stealing election is WRONG.
The constitution secured the right against unjust accusation, the burden is yours to prove.
dOdOng,
Hilo ka nga.
well I am TRULY confounded now. and i thought you and bencard were ruing the bad rap our country is getting because of our “irresponsible” media “ruining” our image to other countries which is “bad for business.” and all along good news or bad news business opportunities exists… golly.
what kind of doofus businessman relies on media news for business decisions? good businessmen rely on hard data, facts and figures – gained through research, not through media fed information. good decisions require a careful balancing act of both gut instinct and analysis of factors at play. and of course, these businessmen rely on their own network of news bringers – those who work on the ground. for all they care, our media news is just garbage to them – nothing to take seriously. all businessmen know all news are tainted with spin. it’s just a matter of who’s doing the tainting, and for what motives.
Proud to be Tsinoy is terribly confused: When he says “Iilan lang ang may tunay na pagmamahal sa Pilipinas. At di ko sinasabing kasama ako diyan. Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.” followed later on by his equally confused statement:
“That’s is what I meant by the Philippines not being ready for democracy.”
Proud to be Tsinoy, ou gotta make a choice, either you give it all you’ve got to love Pinas so Pinas will be a true democracy or not but you cannot on one hand say you don’t truly love it and on one hand say that Pinas is not ready for democracy — which is it and why?
One of your reasonis that because NOT ALL protest corruption in Pinas therefore Pinas or Pinoys are not ready for democracy is utter hogwash!
The fact that people have a choice whether to protest or not is proof enough that Pinas is democracy. The fact that people in Pinas respect their fellow citizens who are not of the Filipino-Malay stock and treat them as equal culturally and before the law, before the Constitution is because Pinas is a democracy.
Again, where would you be if Pinas were not a democracy? Today, you go around Pinas allowed to do whatever business you do because you are not treated second class citizen for being a proud Tsinoy. We don’t have bumiputra in Pinas — nothing of the kind you will find in RP Constitution because Pinas is a democracy.
In the same token, I advise you to make sure of your sentiment about the Philippines, i.e., as when you say “Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.” before you continue on your personalized crusade of trying to tell Filipinos here that Pinas is not ready for democracy.
Totally hogwash!
“I am TRULY confounded now”
Thank you so I can explain. You are correct that business decision relies on hard data and research. Have you heard of the saying, “past performance does not guarantee results”? Direction to certain degree however can be influenced by political driven factors like increase in VAT, political clamor for BSP intervention in currency market (critical to export/import business), resistance to oil price and political decision will alter the financials of oil companies.
To deviladvocate, may I add that media influence stock market, fuels currency movement. If the strong peso continue its trend, your job in the long term might be affected. Philippine call center will lose its competitiveness in the global market.
dOdOng said ‘Have you heard of the saying, “past performance does not guarantee resultsâ€Â?’
Saying? It is a SEC requirement for investment ads with performance data to say that past performance does not guarantee results.
Another example, alarmist concern of political condition can increase insurance premium especially if there is targeted bombing of shopping malls.
The best example is reactionary prices due to news on oil. Before local oil companies can increase the price, the small merchants have marked up their prices in advance.
dOdOng said ‘may I add that media influence stock market, fuels currency movement.’
Since when?
supremo on, “It is a SEC requirement for investment ads with performance data to say that past performance does not guarantee results.”
Yes. We live by that. We do budget and forecast based on historical data and given preset conditions. Those conditions can be changed in variety of ways including political fallout.
dOdOng said ‘If the strong peso continue its trend, your job in the long term might be affected. Philippine call center will lose its competitiveness in the global market.’
So all the call center owners just depended on the peso-dollar exchange rate when they decided to invest in the Philippines? Ang babaw naman nila.
“So all the call center owners just depended on the peso-dollar exchange rate when they decided to invest in the Philippines? Ang babaw naman nila.”
There is a certain threshold in currency rate, that doing business in Philippines is no longer cost effective for Call Center investment. I am not surprised anymore how business decisions are taken. It is their money.
Do Exchange Rates Matter? from Newswise
“Foreign exchange rate issues have become more important in recent years, especially in emerging markets, but businesses appear to look through exchange rate volatility to focus on key market opportunities, finds a new, far-ranging study released today by The Conference Board in conjunction with The Group of Thirty, a private, non-profit, international group dedicated to increasing understanding of critical global economic and financial issues.
Global businesses take exchange rates into consideration in making investment decisions, but market opportunity, political risk, and the legal environment are all more important for foreign investment decisions than exchange rate risks………………”
thanks supremo on the links…
If the management of Philippine call centers take hedging scheme (took options, forwards or futures contract) to manage currency risk then that will offset spike in cost of operation from peso appreciation. However, only 36% of the respondents took financial hedges.
As long peso appreciation is close to rupee appreciation, then there is no advantage of switching investment to the competitor (India).
am not clear on this, rego: you mean the ‘opposistion’ lied about glorias(‘) lies? or the ‘opposistion’ were crying out loud that gloria lies?
the former conjecture is bad, bad, bad, the ‘opposistion’ should never cover ‘glorias lies’, so you reckon? as to the latter, the ‘opposistion’ were exposing–by crying out loud–’glorias lies’. so where do you stand here, rego?
move on?
MBW
Where did you get the idea that I said ““Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.†??? Stop putting words in my mouth.
All I said was that I also have my own baggage (my own shortcomings).
IF YOU FEEL SO SUPERIOR SUCH THAT YOU’RE SO PERFECT WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR LOVE OF COUNTRY, THEN SO BE IT.
I read your points and some of them I do agree. You’re right that there IS democracy in the Philippines when it comes to being able to say what you have to say….but is that the only essence of democracy then?
BTW, I never advocated censorship. I only advocated responsible journalism. I guess for you, you should be able to say anything you want,without any shred of proof except for the say so of people”.
Just a matter of semantics, Bencard. There is a very thin line between speculation and opinion Both can have partial basis in fact. You might have even mistaken an opinion you’ve heard in the media as speculation.
Is that all you can say? I’m quite disappointed.
Yeah, if you Americans decide among yourselves to invade, then that becomes ‘iron clad’, right? Typical.
And then when it turns out that your 9-11 connection and WMD pretexts were bogus, you can shrug it off with a Britneyesque ‘Oops..i did it again.’ How about 1 million Iraqi killed and millions more displaced? Because of your country, it’s like the Iraqi people are having their own 9-11 every other day.
“Where did you get the idea that I said ““Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.†??? Stop putting words in my mouth.”-tsinoy
November 16th, 2007 at 9:59 am
__________________________
Tsinoy,
In fairness try to compare the two quotes…..
“Iilan lang ang may tunay na pagmamahal sa Pilipinas. At di ko sinasabing kasama ako diyan. Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.”-tsinoy
November 15th, 2007 at 1:00 am
This is the explosion that killed the already dead pulido impeachment complaint:
“Those who oppose the President do not trust her at all and there could be no betrayal of a trust that was never there,â€Â- Davao City Rep. Prospero Nograles (Inquirer report)
This congressman is betraying his own common sense…
PANTIES for PEACE!
“You can post, deliver, or fling your panties at the closest Burmese Embassy from today. Send early, Send Often! This is your chance to use your Panty Power to take away the power from the SPDC and support the people of Burma.â€Â
Women in several countries have begun sending their panties to Myanmar embassies in a culturally insulting gesture of protest against the recent brutal crackdown there, a campaign supporter said Friday.
“It’s an extremely strong message in Burmese and in all Southeast Asian culture,†said Liz Hilton, who supports an activist group that launched the “Panties for Peace†drive earlier this week.
The group, Lanna Action for Burma, says the country’s superstitious generals, especially junta leader Gen. Than Shwe, also believe that contact with women’s underwear saps them of power.
Should we start a “UP for Esperon” movement?(“Used Panties for Esperon”)
“One has to consider China’s hostory to decipher what really went on in TianAnMen Square. What you have always heard is what the Western Democracies want you to hear…..read up on CHina’s history through China’s eyes, then you’ll understand why what happened in TianAnMen happened.
“The CHinese mind is very different from the Western mind…democracy in the form presented by the Westerners is a very alien concept to the CHinese.” – Tsinoy
Tsinoy, I’m not Chinese, so I don’t think I can read up on China’s history through China’s eyes. Since you have a Chinese mind, please just explain to me, if you don’t mind, in simple terms, why I should not be horrified by what happened in Tiannamen Square. There’s nothing wrong in wanting to understand the Chinese mind, is there?
By the way, please stop giving out statements like, “Iilan lang ang may tunay na pagmamahal sa Pilipinas.” Why, have you polled all 80 million Filipinos? Magagalit sa iyo niyan si Manoy Bencard (who thinks the world is just one big courtroom), saying things without evidence beyond reasonable doubt.
“Where did you get the idea that I said ““Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.†??? Stop putting words in my mouth.â€Â-tsinoy
November 16th, 2007 at 9:59 am
__________________________
Tsinoy,
In fairness try to compare the two quotes…..
“Iilan lang ang may tunay na pagmamahal sa Pilipinas. At di ko sinasabing kasama ako diyan. Aaminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.â€Â-tsinoy
November 15th, 2007 at 1:00 am” – qwert
Qwert, I think you just have to understand Tsinoy. Judging by the time (November 15th, 2007 at 1:00 am) he wrote his “pag-amin”, it must have been the lateness of the hour. I’m sure he didn’t mean it.
Shaman,
No problem, I can understand tsinoy, I just cannot speak for MBW, the moment she reads Tsinoy’s response…
Say, qwert, have you heard about the latest report on the Batasan blast? It said that because of the accumulated shit inside the House over the years, there was a build-up of methane gas. It was ignited by the forceful discharge of shit from the Committee on Justice while deliberating on the Pulido impeachment complaint, causing a powerful explosion.
Shaman,
I did. On the other hand, did you hear the latest report about the discovery of the complete registration papers of the motorcycle used in the Batasan bombing? It was a three page document and Barias was very careful as he presented it to the media because written at the back of the pages was the Pulido impeach-me complaint.
Yes, qwert, I did, but I want to confirm if the word “planted” was really stamped on the registration papers.
Shaman,
Another report to consider,the Batasan bombing was an inside job according to police authorities, they have arrested this afternoon the chef of the south lounge for two reasons.The first, serving contaminated pork to the justice committee during lunch that lead to the instant outbreak of diarrhea, the rest is history, the septic tank just cannot take it anymore. The second reason, for accidentally igniting an LPG (Liquified Politician’s Gas).
Shaman
Thanks for being fair. I may have miswritten the quote. Didn’t really mean to say that if that was really what I wrote. (“aminin ko din na di lubos ang aking pagmamahal.”)
Regarding my other comment, it is an opinion. I am not saying that it’s true. I look at what goes on around me and reached that conclusion. You are right. I should not have phrased it as a matter of fact. It may be the case that I am just referring to what I see in Metro Manila. Peo