The gathering storm
October 25, 2007 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
Yesterday afternoon I addressed a gathering under the auspices of NIPS on the current political situation. I briefly outlined what’s in my column today, Political leprosy (which makes reference to my March 13, 2006 column, Managing expectations), as well as some points raised the paper of Economist Dr. Michael Alba (which I posted, yesterday, at Inquirer Current) and the argument put forward by yesterday’s Inquirer editorial on the repercussions of the Estrada pardon (widely expected to be formalized on Friday).
My column speaks for itself, but here’s two relevant extracts from the pieces I mentioned. First, from Dr. Alba’s paper:
Is there hope for the future? Recall that, from the inference made by Jones (1997 and 2002) on the very long-run evolution of the world distribution of living standards, the Philippines is right on the demarcation line of countries headed for different futures. If it gets its act together—and this is a big if—the country may yet join the high performers that are tending toward high steady-state levels of output per worker. But to do so, it must exhibit a high growth rate (faster than that of the technological frontier) over a long period of time (as Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan have done), by persistently pushing out the steady-state level of output per worker to which it is headed, not so much by achieving a higher saving rate, a lower population growth rate, and a higher quality workforce, although these will help because of synergistic effects, but by significantly improving its total factor productivity. Growth and modern development economics tell us, however, that this is not so easily done, because it involves improving the quality of the country’s social infrastructure by taking on the vestiges of our history and culture that are growth-constraining, such as flawed leadership that values loyalty more than competence, an entrenched political and business oligarchy that unashamedly promotes and jealously protects its narrow self-interests, and an incentive structure that is nepotistic rather than meritocratic and that rewards thievery and corruption more than honest, hard work. In particular, three absolutely essential and indispensable elements for social transformation are: an effective, efficient, and high-quality education system, a vigilant civil society that demands high accountability from the government, and a competent, corruption-intolerant government administration of firm purpose committed to reform and transformation.
And next, from yesterday’s Inquirer editorial:
The lesson Filipinos have learned is that both leaders have more in common with each other and both have more that sets them apart from a public that is as angry at Arroyo’s cash bar as it was over Estrada’s karaoke governance. In other words, after two years of agonizing over who is the lesser evil, the public can breathe easy, seeing how both are two sides of the same debased coin. It is People of the Philippines now versus Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo and Joseph Ejercito Estrada.
Returning to Dr. Alba’s economics paper, he pointed out a dilemma facing our OFW remittance-dependent economy. First, as more people work abroad, and send money home, the more foreign currency they send home, the less it’s worth. The result is OFW income is actually declining.
Add to this another problem: the more Filipinos leave home to work abroad, the less they stand to earn, and thus, the less they can send home, and the less what they send home is worth. This is the root cause behind proposals like the proposed November 1 and 2 Remittance boycott. Besides OFW’s, Filipino exporters have also, by all accounts, been ravaged by the depreciation of the dollar.
Add to this a third factor economists like Alba have noticed: the more Filipinos work abroad, the more their remaining dependents at home are likely to give up looking for work, and the more dependent they end up on those abroad. Short-term, this benefits the government, which can (and has, if you refer to Cielito Habito’s presentation a couple of months ago) then write off Filipinos who have given up looking for work, thereby formally (but not really) reducing those officially classified as unemployed.
Put in another factor, which is unreported in the media but common currency among entrepreneurs and other businessmen: the rampant smuggling of goods, which is also hurting Filipino manufacturers and traders. Simply talk to people with businesses that depend on importation or manufacturing, and you will know the concerns are serious, and resentment has begun to run deep. And you will also know who businessmen consider the godfathers and beneficiaries of smuggling.
Add another factor, which is that the upper and middle class in particular, was willing to tolerate many things about the administration, so long as it maintained the appearance of being marginally more virtuous than the Estrada administration. The handing out of cash to congressmen and governors, however, exceeded any doling-out of patronage in the Estrada years and was even more brazen than in the Marcos years. And the President’s attention to detail and workaholic style seems to have been spent more on manipulating the bureaucracy to approve the ZTE and other deals, than on anything particularly productive.
Add to this the growing realization on the part of military officers that they have to consider their career prospects in a future administration (a reason, I’ve heard it pointed out, that with the retirement of the previous service commanders, current and next-in-line commanders have quietly but effectively put a stop to tolerating extrajudicial killings and abductions, which seem to have subsided), and the realization among the politicians that the President’s solution to party problems -throwing money at people causing problems- has made politics so expensive and so utterly transactional, that they will have to bear the price of this in campaigns to come -and it makes politics a pretty much losing proposition, financially (even with Political Viagra by way of IRAs).
Put together the infighting in the President’s ruling coalition, with the sustained efforts of the various groups opposed to the administration, with the growing dissatisfaction with the President on the part of sectors formerly content to either turn a blind eye to her shortcomings, or who preferred her government to the prospects of a new one before 2010, and you have an administration running out of wiggle room. Not least because the President can no longer trot out her claim (very Nixon-like) that she represents a “silent majority.” If you noticed, her “silent majroty” has been consistently vocal, until now. Since ZTE began, the top 500 Women of Civil Society, the Filipino-Chinese Chamber of Commerce, and so forth have been very, very quiet while the usefulness of organizations such as ULAP has been severely curtailed, because of the payola scandal and clumsy handling by provincial officials (every family dealing with the depreciation of the dollar now has to consider what each congressman’s and governor’s dole out from the President could have done for them, instead, for example). The public hostility to the President over her handling of the Glorietta explosion and the handling by her pet officials hasn’t bolstered the President’s claim to public support, either.
In the same forum, Mon Casiple said that there are several confrontations that will determine whether the President recovers her strength or further dissipates it:
1. Today’s hearing at the Senate, and whether it brings to the fore new revelations (see ZTE inquiry resumes; Cabinet men not going and Joey: FG was coach; Abalos ‘captain ball ). I don’t know if I’d be as sanguine as New Philippine Revolution who suggests,
1. After tomorrow’s Senate probe, expect a revival of street protests and rallies. These protests will escalate to heights never before seen in both EDSA 1 and 2. The situation, based on objective analysis of existing conditions, is tantamount to the 1986 scenario. People are raring to protests now and it is just a matter of time. Groups should serve as the trigger.
People are saying that the military should move for the kill first before the people support them. I think this is feasible under present circumstances. A repeat of EDSA 1 is in order. I concur with this observation.
2. The resumption of Congress on November 5, widely expected to be a showdown between the President and the Speaker. Tuesday and Wednesday night, apparently, had meetings of neophyte congressmen at the Palace, which suggests the administration is trying to regain the initiative.
3. The fallout from the Estrada pardon and whether, in the weeks and months to come, a quid pro quo between Arroyo and Estrada becomes obvious as a result, which means a burden for the opposition will now shift to the administration (see the letter of Estrada’s lawyers to the President).
4. The serious resumption of Charter Change will make it clear the President does not intend to step down in 2010.
5. The ability of government to convince the public that it’s solved the cause of the Glorietta explosion.
And, I’d add, the ramifications of a far less cheery citizenry going into the Christmas season, as The Unlawyer points out:
It goes without saying that Philippine retailers were the most adversely affected business sector in the wake of the blast. For example, my company suffered an 11 percent drop in business for this Friday to Sunday weekend period – prime shopping days at that – compared to revenues from previous weekends, although I must say that customer traffic rebounded somewhat on Sunday.
What about in the medium term? The explosion happened during the runup to the 2007 Christmas shopping season, which traditionally starts soon after the All Saints’ Day holidays. Indeed, at least two major Metro Manila malls started their respective pre-Christmas sales promotions on the day of the blast. Philippine consumers will definitely stay away from the malls in the next few days, and if the authorities don’t quickly restore confidence to an apprehensive populace, they may just decide to refrain from shopping for quite a while longer.
Philippine retailers are depending on Christmas season sales for a substantial portion of their 2007 revenues, and it is certainly not an appealing prospect for many of them – of us, I should say – to see our customers frightened so.
Imagine how the retailers will feel as their suddenly-slender margins are further eroded by smuggling.
Blogger Scriptorium, unlike Mon Casiple, thinks the odds are still in the President’s favor in terms of staying in power. The blogger starts off with an interesting analysis of the political scene:
The Philippine political system is best understood if we see its major players as estates divided into blocs composed of factions. An estate, following Weber’s usage, is a group distinguished by its specific social functions and conventions (rather than by mere economic standing, as in the case of a class); blocs are subgroups made cohesive by a common ideology, orientation, or interest, and which are the best Philippine equivalents of political parties; and factions are groups usually united by personal antipathy or allegiance. In the Philippines, the estates would be the Thinkers or “lords spiritual†(its Blocs being the Church, the Left, and the urban intelligentsia); the Warriors (i.e., the regular military, the armed Left, and the criminal and private armies); the Commons (the urban middle class, and the rural electorates); and the Magnates or “lords temporal†(i.e., the political elite, big business, and organized crime). There are other estates and other blocs, but they are not as politically significant.
Based on the above, the blogger breaks things down into three main groups:
(1) Since 1986, the successful removal of a sitting President through peaceful mass action has required a coalition composed of at least one bloc from each estate. Hence, the 1986 EDSA revolt was carried out by an alliance of the Church, the non-aligned intelligentsia, the urban middle class, the military, and the Opposition factions of big business and the political elite; and the 2001 EDSA revolt required the same broad alliance, with the addition of the intellectual Left, which directly participated in the protests.
(2) Of these blocs/factions, the most important have been the military, the Church, the urban middle class (as the popular base of the protests), and the opposition faction of the political elite (which provides the leadership). The absence of any one of these blocs/factions, especially the last, renders removal of a President through peaceful mass action unlikely.
(3) A successful removal through peaceful mass action requires a correlation of forces that favors removal; that is, in leadership, will, and political strength, the pro-ouster coalition must have the advantage over the administration. Thus, the 1986 coalition was marshaled against a regime weakened by economic crisis, the President’s wasting illness, and the attacks of the intellectual and armed Left; and the 2001 coalition confronted a President whose main political base was the isolated and untested urban poor, and who had neither the skill nor the machinery to counter-mobilize.
The blogger points out that the Catholic Church lacks a Cardinal Sin, and the political class either a Ninoy Aquino willing to embrace martyrdom, or a Doy Laurel willing to subordinate his ambitions; and because of these, the military is, in a sense, incapable of moving (for the same reason, the German military proved incapable of challenging Hitler; it’s interesting to me that the blogger compares the current AFP mentality to the old Prussian military mentality that equated professionalism with blind subordination to the state). Anyway, the blogger then concludes,
At present, however, the preconditions for successful removal of the President through peaceful mass action simply do not exist, as was amply demonstrated in the almost-successful ouster attempt of 2005.
To begin with, the main social blocs have been isolated, neutralized, or weakened. For one, the urban middle class, especially the all-important 18-35 age range, is sheltered from economic pressure (like that faced by the urban poor) by the existence of outsourcing and emigrant (OFW) employment, which also siphons off discontented urban intellectuals; and it is diverted from politics by the expansion of the emigrant- and outsourcing-driven consumer market. (Some writers, in fact, have noticed the discrepancy between the youth that fueled the First Quarter Storm and the young adults of contemporary Philippines: once, they say, the paradigmatic activity of college and young professionals was public protest against oppression and injustice; but today, one finds the youth in Starbucks and the ever-ubiquitous malls.)
Even if it were politically active, the urban middle class has declined in relative strength with the politicization of the rural electorate, which tends to be less pro-Opposition than the urban sectors. The presence of this new countervailing force allowed GMA to fight the 2005 ouster-movement by counter-mobilizing the provinces, somewhat as the 14th-century Valois mobilized rural France against the Jacquerie; and with the dominance of patrimonial politics in rural Philippines, which, as I explained in another essay, is under Presidential control, she can well use the provinces again to resist urban protest. Another additional factor has been the rise of urban poor as a potential force. Being less inclined to liberal-democratic ideology and oriented to bread-and-butter issues, the urban poor’s very existence as a mobilizable force serves to weaken the claim of the urban middle class to represent the public will. In a word, we are seeing in the Philippines the beginnings of the process that, in Europe, led to the displacement of middle-class Liberal power with the Conservative, Catholic and Socialist movements.
I can’t wait for Part 2 of the blogger’s essay!
See the PNP Presentation 1 and the PNP Presentation 2 on the Glorietta blast. See also the observations of Tongue In, Anew and The Journal of the Jester-in-Exile and Manuel Buencamino in his column and Inner Sanctum in his blog and Jessica Zafra in hers. Some news: PNP probes army official who found plastic bag with RDX and Ayala Land says PNP theory of methane gas blast unlikely. Whatever the case, the Inquirer editorial urges authorities not to rush it.
A very poignant reflection by Luz Rimban on journalists and their having to pry into the sorrows of individuals in times of crisis or disaster. See Rabid Pirate Tanuki on the reactions of an office mate, a survivor of the blast; I feel blest publishes a letter by a bereaved husband (her harrowing account of the husband and his ordeal is in this entry). helen’s site has harrowing rescue photos, and Life No. 2 reflects on how people coped with the tragedy.
Technorati Tags: Blogging, constitution, economy, House of Representatives, impeachment, media, military, philippines, politics, president, Senate, society
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ay_naku on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:32 am
I sooo agree with this, and this has also been my personal observation for quite some time now, being part of the young urban middle class myself. Many of my friends and acquaintances are in the outsourcing/callcenter industry, and most of them simply do not care about the numerous government scandals, and they could care even less about the extra-legal killings, if they’re even aware of it in the first place. When I try to talk about these things to them, some would just complain about the huge taxes they have to pay (and I believe that on the average they earn much more than those working for local companies), but they stop at that, and such complaints seem more perfunctory than real expressions of protests (that their taxes are just going to the pockets of government officials.)
In some ways, they’ve been “americanized”, more concerned with their accents than with what’s happening with the rest of the country. They’ve “made it”: they can afford to rent condo units (although many have to share one unit), pay for their weekend gimmicks, and have their regular Starbucks fix. I’d like to say that they choose to not rock the boat, so to speak, but from my personal observations, many actually are just blissfully unaware of current events. (But they’re very much aware of Malu Fernandez and the Desperate Housewives brouhaha, and have expressed anger at them.) In some ways, they seem to be “disconnected”, as if they live in some American state located here in the Philippines.
hvrds on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:46 am
“In particular, three absolutely essential and indispensable elements for social transformation are: an effective, efficient, and high-quality education system, a vigilant civil society that demands high accountability from the government, and a competent, corruption-intolerant government administration of firm purpose committed to reform and transformation.”
Chicken and egg situation. As Drucker very correctly pointed out. “Civil society is the rule of law and financial regulation.” Free markets or liberal economics do not create these institutions. It presupposes they exist. These institutional mechanisms are products of societal transformations of communities. Trust transferred from familial bonds to state institutions. When families and communities trust their deputized representatives and this can happen only in the smallest political units.
Communities bind together to protect their safety and property first and foremost. In the Philippines home and village associations protect themselves and not the state.
Business also do the same. There is widespread distrust of the agents of the state.
That is a product of the separation of colonizer from the colonized. A form of apartheid. Enter any building and gated community and most will allow you entry without batting an eyelash if you look Western or foreign.
The weak economic base led to the degradation of political and cultural values hence the institutional mechanisms established by the colonizers have been debased and degraded beyond recognition. The aspect of due process of law has been so distorted and abused leading to a complete breakdown in all levels of society of what is right and wrong. From the MMDA traffic enforcer to the Office of the President, the Judiciary and the Legislature everything and anyone can be bought.
Hence the romanticized look to the past before the war and right after the war.
There have been arguments in this blog about the necessity of applying the rules of court and evidence in determining culpability but the entire process of law enforcement is initiated by institutional investigative processes when probable cause has been established.
However these mechanisms have been almost entirely corrupted.
It is sad that a lot of equilibrium economists fail to look at the societal institutions that are necessary for sound market economies to prosper. That makes governance absolutely essential for markets to do their work for the benefit of all.
Civilization requires expensive governance. If society does not trust its own government that means there is no society to speak of.
DinaPinoy on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:00 am
i was in college during the marcos regime. i don’t know if you remember, ang mga nag ra-rally noon ay mga kabataan, ussually students. i’m not a member of any organization but me and my classmates participated most of the time. sa tingin ko, with issues like these today, ang mendiola bridge / plaza miranda / plaza lawton ay puputaktihin ng mga estudyante noong kapanahunan ni marcos kumpara sa kabataan ngayon.
military component will not come considering the present setup. si esperon ang ver ni gloria. sinubukan na ang military component sa oakwood, di ba?
tonio on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:10 am
the country’s young people are locked up in call centres, which have the effect of dumbing them down. anyone who’s been through an eleven hour shift getting grief from people who, for the most part, have a lower comprehension that you affects you. a good friend, who is a veteran of a few contact centres, told me this one day:
add to this the fact that these people “live” across the world, in another time zone. while things are going on in our world, these young people are, quite literally, asleep.
deVilsadVc8 on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:15 am
Manolo, what’s your take on this?
Jon Mariano on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:21 am
It looks like the Nov 1 and 2 remittance boycott is not supported well. I wish it was so that we can see whether a bigger(more OFWs) and longer remittance boycott can be done.
tonio on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:26 am
jon:
sir, the “undas” holiday is one of those traditional “big expense” holidays i think. you can’t ask our OFWs to stop remitting on those days.
and considering the way most OFW relationships have a co-dependent character… it’d be like asking junkies to quit cold turkey.
ay_naku on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:30 am
MLQ, since you you said in your column that you are in favor of snap elections, any chance that civil society groups (BWM, One Voice, etc) will finally call for this loudly, in a concerted and sustained effort?
tonio on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:38 am
ay naku:
isn’t civil society still fragmented at this point? anyone willing to call for a snap election is itching to get “disappeared”.
further, who will people listen to? i don’t know if i just don’t get out that often, but i feel that the voices of dissent are few or worse, not listened to.
again, don’t get me wrong. i want this change to happen. but are there enough people who want it too?
deVilsadVc8 on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:43 am
holy shit! these bishops sound more like lawyers or trapos than bishops!
wait for the whole truth (which is slapping them in the face) to be “ascertained” before applying “moral scrutiny?”
*gangster voice* no, no, no wait! let us wait for the “impartial” govt initiated investigation to finish its investigation of its own self before we issue any statement calling the emperor naked. no, no, no. why don’t we do one better and wait till we’re in hell before we apply moral scrutiny to our actions? no! why apply moral scrutiny at all when we’ve lost all morality in us?
yes! that’s the spirit bishops! lead the way to hell!
tonio on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:53 am
hmph. morally bankrupt bastards. have padre damaso and his ilk been reincarnated?
“my brothers and sisters, as long as this administration keeps our ravenous bellies full we will never rally you to go against her. anyone who sees otherwise are merely destabilizers. long live the status quo. amen.
ay_naku on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:53 am
Well, we’ll never really know unless we try, right? Enough prominent civil society members were able to come together for the successful anti-chacha campaign (One Voice.) Senator Trillanes has also proposed snap elections. PDI columnist Conrado de Quiros has been loudly advocating it for some time now (thank God he hasn’t “disappeared” yet), and in his column for today, MLQ (who’s a member of BWM and One Voice) has also expressed support for it. Maybe the timing is right for finally making a serious, concerted effort in this direction.
deVilsadVc8 on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:57 am
our religious leaders today have the airs of the pharisees of Jesus’ time.
but not to worry. Jesus’ 2nd coming is near, and he’ll pronounce them hypocrites on their way to hell.
Jon Mariano on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:30 am
OFWs usually send money only once a month, an effective boycott would be to not send that one month remittance. Any good ideas on how this can be done? To be succesful, OFWs must be willing to let their families “die of hunger” for one month.
rego on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:51 am
sus ginoo! di ko kayang tapusing basahin ang entry na eto. add to this, add to this, add to this then, then, then…. patong na patong na problema. napakadilim ng ng bukas para sa pinas, naka depress, nakakalungkot,parang gusto ko ng hakutin ang mag kamaganak ko sa na naiwan sa pinas…..
Willy on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:52 am
Devilsadv, Tonio,
Here are some excerpts from the Pastoral statement issued by CBCP last June of 2005 in response to the then
crisis. It might help out to see where they are coming from:
“We are not politicians who are to provide a political blueprint to solve political problems. Rather we are Bishops called by the Lord to shepherd the people in the light of faith…We are to provide moral and religious guidance to our people. This is what we offer in the present crisis. Not to do this would be an abdication of our duty…In the welter of conflicting opinions and positions our role is not to point out a specific political option or a package of options as the Gospel choice, especially so when such an option might be grounded merely on a speculative and highly controvertible basis…In all these we remind ourselves that a just political and moral order is best promoted under the present circumstances by a clear and courageous preference for constitutional processes that flow from moral values and the natural law.”…
Jeg on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:58 am
I dont get it. The bishops say they arent politicians that provide a political blueprint, etc, etc., and that they prefer constitutional processes yadda-yadda-yadda, why then are they making a pronouncement against calling for resignation of GMA? Dont they believe resignation is constitutional? Is the Catholic flock incapable of discerning moral issues without their help? Pfsh!
magdiwang on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 12:28 pm
Im not really sure why you guys/gals are so pre-occupied about GMA. The truth is there is no significant outrage to even threaten her hold on power. The businessmen are making a killing, the provinces resent imperial manila, a good number of people dont trust the opposition, young educated urbanites actually like her businesslike leadership, the catholic church is hopelesly divided and the military is in her pockets. It will take more than innuendoes and unproven accusations to topple her.
deVilsadVc8 on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 12:58 pm
No. but you are bishops who talk like politicians, who coddle politicians, who accept “gifts” from politicians, and bishops who are least of God’s servants – at all.
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 1:26 pm
I don’t think the young generation’s apathy is because they are made of lesser stuff than their counterparts in the 70’s and 80’s. There is no comparison in that today’s Society is more highly functionally differentiated than before. Combine that with the inequality that has become even more pronounced as our economy grows. The call center crowd has its own little world separate from the urban or rural poor. This is reinforced by the prevailing globalization ideology that says government should be made irrelevant and that any collective action should remain community based. These factors were not present in the 70’s and 80’s to the degree it is today.
Some, who have taken upon themselves the role of Society’s immune system, know that such a view is harmful to society at large because it would eventually lead to the breakdown of our social infrastructure that Alba is referring to. I do think that Ellen’s, Ricky’s, Manuelbuencamino’s, Manolo’s and the BnW’s efforts are taking effect and that the realization that GMA is more harmful than beneficial to our system is already seeping into the public consciousness. Unfortunately, there are still those who choose to stick to their own little worlds. What the recent bombing has shown is that people can go to ridiculous lengths to justify their apathy just as the 18 Mindanao bishops have done. As hvrds has said (my favorite line from him)
As the Ayalas are realizing right now, not even them can be spared from the consequences of their apathy.
At a practical level, the task that society’s immune system needs to figure out is to get around what Mon Casiple is describing which is in effect a failure of coordination across the different sectors of society. We know that the goal – good government, is in the interest of everyone who belongs to our society, but beyond that our outlook remains personal or at best local and confined to our day to day or community concerns. There is also mutual distrust and lack of respect between the classes as represented by the EDSA Dos and EDSA Tres crowds, the former taking on a foolish elitist mindset and the latter wallowing in their perennial sense of victimhood. Figuring out how to harness and channel the aspirations of these groups to a common direction is the key challenge facing us.
Willy on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 1:38 pm
“Is the Catholic flock incapable of discerning moral issues without their help?” -Jeg
I don’t recall the bishops claiming so.
Anyone can express their views, and I suppose this includes the bishops. You are free to agree with them or not, based on your own discernment.
Jeg on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 1:44 pm
Im sure youre right, Willy. I was reacting to this part of what you quoted:
In all these we remind ourselves that a just political and moral order is best promoted under the present circumstances by a clear and courageous preference for constitutional processes that flow from moral values and the natural law.â€â€¦
A call for resignation shows a ‘preference for constitutional processes’. And yet the bishops are against it, meaning they do not believe that the call for resignation flows ‘from moral values and the natural law…’ Would you know why?
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 1:47 pm
Are you asking for a logical reason? or a psychological one?
Jeg on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 1:52 pm
cvj: Are you asking for a logical reason? or a psychological one?
A moral reason would suffice since the bishops claim this is their area of expertise. Why is the call for resignation, a peaceful call, a call that shows a preference for constitutional processes, ‘immoral’?
But a logical or psychological reason would do as well since we’re just speculating on their motives.
Willy on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 2:04 pm
Jeg,
My two centavos attempt to answer:
The bishop’s pastoral function directed to moral issues within the sphere of politics is based on the Church’s social doctrine wherein the concept of common good may not be as common to most people. Somehow this had led them to call for a resignation. We might say that they are not united in this (18 vs 3?) because the nature of this pastoral function is not based on an infallible dogma. Even bishops among themselves do differ on points where no clear magisterium teaching is concerned. Thus, you may follow your own private discernment, and they will not condemn you to hell if you do otherwise. That
is not to say that the faithful takes their advise for granted.
Willy on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 2:05 pm
oops, should read “Somehow this had led them NOT to call for a resignation.”
leah on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 3:08 pm
it would help if the OFWs just sent their money door-to-door and avoided the official banking system.
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 3:14 pm
Jeg, to me the simplest answer is that the Bishops made that call out of ignorance of what is Constitutional and what is not. It may have been an honest mistake or maybe they are just grasping for any flimsy reason that would give them moral cover.
hvrds on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 3:18 pm
Bishops are citizens and can vote and have opinions and can make political stands. As citizens they can and make statements as citizens. Do not make the mistake of saying that the Church is divided. The Bishops are not the Church and the Church is not the Bishops. Only people who realize they are Catholics and who do good (non-Catholics) comprise the Church. The rest just go through the motions.
Bishop Capalla and all the other 17 bishops if they all signed a statement and understood all of its contents than that is the statement of 18 men who happen to be Bishops of the Catholic Church.
The same with the 3 Bishops who also very clearly said that it was their personal stand. It was also unfortunate that when they made their stand a retired Justice of the Supreme Court was with them and he made the same call on the same day they made their call known the bombing happened in Makati. Plus the media focused on the 3 bishops only and their call for resignation. Nothing else was mentioned about the rationale. That left them open for misinterpretation by the government. The spin doctors went to work to fill the void due to the bombing.
The Palace likes to play politics and it was very easy to get Bishop Capalla to fashion a statement for GMA’s side to diffuse the call of the three bishops as he is working for the benefit of coconut farmers in his region and GMA has been playing him like a violin. The head of the CBCP was the one who came out and said that the government is morally bankrupt. I do not know if he mentioned it as a stand of the group or his personal observation.
No big deal.
In Argentina recently a priest was sent to prison for being an accomplice to the tortures of many during the dirty war. Don’t forget what some of the Roman Catholic hierarchy did in support of Franco during the Spanish Civil War. There were also progressive churchmen and women put to the death by Franco. The conservatives comprise what may be akin to a Catholic Hezbollah Movement. (Party of God)
Some of the priests and bishops in the Church here are still steeped in the traditions of the Council of Trent. Rigid and Dogmatic……A lot of them are not still comfortable with Vatican II.
Remember that there are also ayatollahs in the Catholic hierarchy.
Cardinal Rosales is one such person. He is slightly to the left of Pope Benedict but certainly to the extreme right of the late Cardinal Sin.
Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 3:35 pm
“sus ginoo! di ko kayang tapusing basahin ang entry na eto. add to this, add to this, add to this then, then, then…. patong na patong na problema. napakadilim ng ng bukas para sa pinas, naka depress, nakakalungkot,parang gusto ko ng hakutin ang mag kamaganak ko sa na naiwan sa pinas…..”
reg0, don’t despair. It is darkest just before the break of dawn.
Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 3:46 pm
I have long stopped listening to the bishops. I’m quite comfortable with my Jesuit-confessor.
The Ca t on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 4:20 pm
The idealist blogger should have read more about the real reason of the uprising of the military during Marcos time.
With Ver under Imelda and Enrile’s life was threatened there was no way out but to rebel.
Under Aquino’s administration, the coup was a case of the “Ako ang nagtanim, ako ang nagbayo, iba ang kumain.”
Sheesh! doomsayers.
The Ca t on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 4:27 pm
I should say they’re not dumb.
Just look at what happened to those activists during Marcos’ era.
Villanueva is now a rich leader of a religious congregation.
Gordon is a senator. Barican served under Estrada’s administration. Before that he was also a corporate person.
Other activists who must have discovered the true nature of the organizationsthey supported were executed.
So you consider the people who want to earn an honest living DUMB?
Get a life.
tonio on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 4:57 pm
Cat:
far from it Cat. i meant that statement as more of a description of the effect of living your life in the wrong time zone, not as a general description of their intellectual capacity.
have you lived the life of a contact centre agent? i have. no matter how smart you really are, the work really gets to you after a while.
add to that the growing incidence of stress-related incidences in that sector of the work force, it’s no wonder that they may not even be really fit, much less inclined to participate in things on the ground.
alas ka dora on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 5:00 pm
I agree with hvrds that bishops are citizens of this country too and can form opinion about issues affecting this country where they perform their bishopric responsibilities. But if the opinion of those 17 bishops which comprise the CBCP authority is remove from the voice of what they represent ,as what you are trying to suggest, so what do we call as the catholic voice now? Who do we look up to as the one echoing the sentiments of the cathlic church as an institution.
tonio on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 5:04 pm
alas ka dora:
misrepresentation is the name of the game nowadays. you can’t expect the church, or your local congressman to express the people’s sentiments, much less your own.
if there’s anything the climate in the country right now is teaching people, it’s that you can’t look up to just anyone to represent your interests anymore.
tonio on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 5:31 pm
hmmm… trillanes has “put up”. he says he’s got witnesses.
Willy on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 5:41 pm
“you can’t expect the church, or your local congressman to express the people’s sentiments” – tonio
True, because the church is not mandated to express people’s sentiments but is commissioned by their calling to spread the word of God, which includes their pastoral functions that may delve into the realm of politics. This should be regardless of whether they square with the people’s sentiments or not. With congressmen, it should be different.
alas ka dora,
I believe the 18 bishops’ statement do not constitute an official statement from the CBCP – it is just a collective statement. If you are looking for an official Catholic voice, the closest one you get in our setting is the one that might be released by the CBCP, that is if they do decide to release one.
Mike on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 6:01 pm
The pardon of Erap is the last straw. It makes a mockery of everything I fought for in 2001. It’s so clear and so glaring that we’ve been so thoroughly had. I’ve never been so sick to my stomach.
I would join a rally at the drop of a hat, but is there any credible group that is going to lead them?
Carlos H. Lopez on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 6:14 pm
jinggoy and Loi at the senate. Hope they stick to their principles too.
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 6:27 pm
If civil society which has been against this pardon doesn’t get in there to rally against Gloria’s pardon for Erap, then I suppose, cvj is right, the move on crowd will have won.
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 6:37 pm
MBW, i’d be interested in the reactions of the EDSA Tres crowd on an Erap pardon. The reactions over at Ellen’s, where the pro-Erap crowd hangs out, will be interesting to observe.
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 6:40 pm
Mike, i agree. You can consider an Erap pardon a final defeat for EDSA Dos.
Ka Enchong on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 6:50 pm
More than the pro-Erap crowd, it would be interesting to observe Jinggoy whether he’s going to switch sides (if he hasn’t, yet) or not.
Same here.
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 6:54 pm
Chuck,
Nobody seems to be interested in Ellen’s blog even when I say that I would be happy for Erap to make a last hurrah and beg for that pardon to see if there would be a squeak from civil society (which has been vehemently against this pardon from the onset), hoping that that squeak would turn into something thunderous and eventually, push out Gloria too… you know Erap and Gloria will cancel each other out sort of.
I think safe to say that unless we see anything concrete from civil society, might as well admit that we have underestimated the purpose and the determination of the move on crowd to simply ‘move on’.
Acoy on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 7:02 pm
Pardon already given. In the news already.
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 7:06 pm
Acoy,
Yeah, learned that from Ka Enchong and Philippine Commentary a few minutes ago.
So, shall we now move on?
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 7:38 pm
Chuck,
Initial posts indicate that Erap pardon is not really a cause for joy in Ellen’s blog — there is a growing consensus that both Erap and Gloria should be finally out of the Philippine political landscape.
Manindigan! on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:00 pm
First she bought immunization via the”ImpeachMe “move of PronBonus Lawyer Pulido.
Now she bought political insurance via Erap pardon to establish legal precedent for future”pardons” of her political crimes.
What’s next ,refurbish the San Francisco homes of Jose Pidal for future exile?
That’s what you call a Tranformational Pesident in this country.
Trick or treat time for Erap and Gloria.They deserve each other.
Ka Enchong on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:07 pm
Any future president will have no incentive in pardoning Aling Gloria. Erap remains extremely popular, while Aling Gloria has been languishing even below the cellar popularity-wise. By the looks of it, she may be staying there till it’s time to go- for good.
MNYANO on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:08 pm
Dung it! Aren’t we the world’s official shit capital yet?
Manindigan! on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:20 pm
“Dung it! Aren’t we the world’s official shit capital yet?”MNYANO
I am now 100% convinced that EDSA 2 was big farce!
Shameless leaders!
We really should establish a Presidential Rogues Gallery:
Ferdinand E.Marcos
Joseph Erap Velarde
Gloria M.A.Pidal
ramrod on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:21 pm
Good evening fellow habitues of mlq3’s blog,
Although I felt sympathy for the victims (and their families) of the Glorietta explosion and I casually included them in my prayer list, I never really understood, no, I had no idea how these people really felt. The shock, the fear brought on by uncertainty, and the unspeakable pain that follows. I have never known what it is like to cry in front of strangers, to kneel and pray so hard and so loud you become a distraction to others around you. I have never known how it feels to offer your own life instead, to “ask for this cup of suffering” instead of giving it to someone so innocent, so precious, so full of love.
I have never felt so connected to the millions who suffered unfathomable grief…as I did the past two days…
Yesterday my son suddenly stiffened and turned black in the lips, his eyes rolled over, and his body seemed to crumble in my arms. At first I thought he choked on the kiddie biscuits he was eating (he’s 1 year and 3 months old) and I frantically forced myself to recall the Heimlech maneuver, I don’t even know if I spelled it right as it was 20 years ago already but I could dislodge anything from his throat. I pleaded with him, pleaded with God, as I held him in my arms in the back of the car while my wife drove to the hospital. The nearest emergency hospital was Unciano, I believe it was a government (semi government) hospital in Mandaluyong, I will never forget the sight, the elevator doesn’t work, there was no aircon, there was no doctor, and the walls and ceiling had plaster falling off, it was under rennovation, they told us. As it became clear that he had a seizure and didn’t choke I just wanted somebody to put in the intravenous medicine to stabilize him. That being done, we went straight to Cardinal Santos, where we are to this day. But relax, after the EEG, supposedly he had to undergo MRI scan but just an hour ago, the doctor came in to bring the good news, he had the seizure for less serious causes and it wasn’t anything serious like epilepsy. I was just glad it was all over. My wife and I are so relieved and grateful, I made a deal with God and he gave me what I asked for, I will honor my part for the rest of my life…
I actually tried to blog last night but I could only manage one comment.
Anyway, I wish all of you and your families, long healthy lives, filled with happiness and fulfillment…
Manindigan! on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:23 pm
RAMROD:GOD is GREAT!!!!
qwert on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:26 pm
ram,
I’m sorry to hear what had happened to your son, but I’m so relieve to know that he’s ok. Be rest assured of my prayers for your son and the whole family.
qwert on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:27 pm
ram,
Is he still confined at the hospital?
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:28 pm
MBW, you’re right. From the previous threads, i had an inkling that would be the reaction.
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:33 pm
Ram, i’m sorry to hear that, and i’m relieved your son is ok. That also happened to my son when he was about your son’s age but luckily we were at the emergency room already at that time.
qwert on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:33 pm
“That being done, we went straight to Cardinal Santos, where we are to this day” – ram
ram,
don’t need to answer my question.
Ka Enchong on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:36 pm
Ram,
From a father to another father, here’s hoping and praying for a speedy recovery for your son.
They say it’s easy to sire a son, but it’s much more difficult to be a father.
ramrod on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:38 pm
qwert, actually we can already go home, but this Cardinal Santos feels more like a hotel than a hospital we decided to stay the night and enjoy the rest of it. I’ll deal with the other source of shock – bills, tomorrow morning.
cvj on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:42 pm
Quo Vadis Bencard?
ramrod on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:45 pm
Thank you very much, all of you, I couldn’t do anything else last night but read through your threads.
Anyway, I saw it in the news, Erap’s pardon. Somehow I saw that coming…What’s next? A blanket clemency for congress, governors’, and mayors’ league?
Forgive and forget, lets move on…
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:47 pm
Good luck, Ramrod!
I understand what you must have gone through. A father or a mother never stops “panicking” for their children… My youngest has just turned 16 and I still panic; last week he complained that he was dizzy, had stomach ache and couldn’t eat prompting Dad to come home early to take him to the doctor who found baby boy had early symptoms of ulcer.
As Enchong said, “They say it’s easy to sire a son, but it’s much more difficult to be a father.”
BrianB on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:49 pm
Manolo, All,
Let’s put it bluntly: this, here, today, is the best of times.
Ducks on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 8:58 pm
Hi everyone. I am regular visitor
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:02 pm
Manolo’s title “The gathering storm ” might be premonitory again as the previous one on bombshell…
vic on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:13 pm
Erap pardoned? Well, that’s Gloria “rule of law”..While she’s at it, why not pardon Jaloslos?, pre-empted pardon to Abalos maybe? and reserve the best for last, Herself…
Bencard on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:13 pm
mlq3, i’ve been reading all those prescriptions for good governance that you have reiterated here since the early days of gma administration and long before. it’s fast becoming hackneyed, a monotonous mantra for the theorists and academics. but where did they get us? practically nowhere. in all fairness to gma, the kind of society we now have, the system of choosing our leaders, the practices of government’s agencies and instrumentalities, the behavior of our business leaders, the clergy, and most of all the uncontrolled media, were all in place when she assumed the presidency, in fact since the beginning of the post-war era. changing the whole system is always a quixotic dream, an almost impossible quest.
to win a position of power, most especially the presidency, and to sustain it during his/her term, a politician must be a little bit machiavellian. in philippine politics, good guys usually finish last or end up a loser. i doubt whether a saint could stay holy after entering politics, assuming power, and struggling to retain it. money will always be a prime factor, that’s why marcos and erap concentrated on accumulating it in a magnitude that boggles the mind.
a complete makeover of philippine society in its entirety is the only way to rid the country of all its ills. no single person or entity is to blame.
ramrod on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:21 pm
mbw
Yes. I remember equalizer asked me something about the situation in the barracks and I responded with “its a powder keg, if a junior officer would care to light it, it will explode,” then I went to my meeting in Pasong Tamo and went back to the office where I saw the news on TV. Very strange, as if by premonition…
Prudence on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:21 pm
“What’s next? A blanket clemency for congress, governors’, and mayors’ league? Forgive and forget, lets move on…”
— I fear that it wouldn’t surprise me anymore if it happens. But it will certainly make me more dismayed.
Bencard on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:22 pm
vic, i personally oppose erap’s pardon but you are being ignorant. pardon is part of the “rule of flaw”, not necessarily gma’s own. it’s a presidential, discretionary prerogative. technically, she can pardon all the other convicts you mentioned but why should she?
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:25 pm
A sad day for the Justice system in the Philippines.No remorse,noâ€I’m sorryâ€,not even one day in jail for the convict!
Iba talaga ang system of justice dito.One for the poor.and one for the Very Powerful!
Jose Velarde and Gloria Pidal,you deserve each other!
We deserve better leaders!
ramrod on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:26 pm
bencard
Hi bencard, are you trying to be funny again or this is a typo?
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:32 pm
What’s happening to this country???
Last week was the “Big Fart’ excuse.
Today is the edsa 2 “Big Farce†exposed.
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:38 pm
The poor can’t afford good lawyers,have no connections,walang malapitan!They will only get justice in the next life,not in the Philippines.
I am willing to make a bet:after the convicted plunderer,the convicted child rapist(Cong.RJ)will be next to receive presidential pardon.
ramrod on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:44 pm
Bencard, I fully understand what you mean, and having experienced managing people, managing a company, a struggling one at that, at times you have to be Machiavellian, nothing matters except the bottomline, the budget for 13th month pay every end of the year, heck even the budget for paying the monthly salaries, the contractuals, allowances, commissions for the salesmen (so that they will stay), to name a few. I have sold my soul to the devil many times over for my people to survive, for the company to remain open, but that was me. Its difficult really, but I firmly believe there are other ways, at the time I just wasn’t prepared or trained to do a better job. I know I should have considered other options but I didn’t know any, in the end I lost the job…sometimes I look at our presidents and think that they probably were not equiped for it, but these are highly intelligent people, far more intelligent than I will ever be, with vast resources, resources I will never be able to wield, not in my wildest dreams…
vic on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:44 pm
Bencard, She won’t because what she is doing at the moment is just setting a precedent, pardoning a convicted president of a Used to be a capital crime, punishable by death and what could be more convenient just in case?
If you abuse a power granted to you by the constitution, such as pardon, which is only to be used in extra-ordinary circumstances (where is it in Erap Case?) then the rule of law has been violated.. that just an opinion from an observer, not necessarilly a lawyer…
Ducks on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:45 pm
Hi everyone. I am a regular visitor of this blog but I never get to comment or share my own views because my reluctance always wins over my willingness to do so. I do not really know why, may be I am enjoying reading your posts/comments too much that I always end up not feeling the need anymore after. Or may be, nag-aalangan lang talaga ako kasi ang gagaling nyo. Hehehe
Anyway, while I do not agree with some of the comments, I always find this blog – and the comments – very informative, insightful, and thought-provoking. My hats off to you MLQ3 and you all guys.
My comment now has been prompted by Ramrod’s story. I am moved by his story and I can relate to him because a loved one of mine, a sister actually, also had gone through a similar ordeal, albeit due to a different cause. And I can almost feel Ramrod’s feelings, the panic, the pain and all, right now. Ram, I am thankful that your son is already out of danger. Thanks God!
I know God has a beautiful message to you through this experience. He always has especially when the going gets really, really tough. Jim Paredes, I recall, has a very very good post – and reflection – about a similar experience in his blog. The only difference is that, he himself was the one who, in his own words, “came face to face with mortality”.
To end, may I just add a part of what I put forward there in Jim’s blog in connection with that post of him? Here:
“One thing I realized about the experience was that I do not have to be the one to be sick or endangered to come face to face with mortality and realize what really matters in life. I realized no matter the distance, the miles that we have already traveled, and all other things that separate or have separated us with our loved ones, we are inevitably connected as our lives, our hearts, and our souls are – forever. Thanks God she is already fine and on the road to recovery. It just amazes me how God teaches us about things. I remember the movie “Evan Almighty”, the lady protagonist came face to face with God who then was ‘disguised’ as a waiter in a restaurant. She was mulling over what has been happening to her family and the quagmire that her family found themselves in. To which God commented: “Let me ask you something. If someone prays for patience, you think God gives them patience? Or does he give them the opportunity to be patient? If he prayed for courage, does God give him courage, or does he give him opportunities to be courageous? If someone prayed for the family to be closer, do you think God zaps them with warm fuzzy feelings, or does he give them opportunities to love each other?”
Padagos na magpadangat, yan an tama.
Be well. Great minds, you are all here! Carry on!
Sana “paglaki” ko, magi akong kasing dudunong nyo.
hehe Kidding..
Tsokolet on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:47 pm
Erap’s pardon is maybe a calculated move. Aling Gloria needs a safety net like this mukha kasing ang dami na niyang atraso, she’s playing safe…for her future.
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:56 pm
The line in the sand has been drawn :
The Gloria/Erap crowd(â€let’s move on!,Catch us if you canâ€) versus the People of the Philippines.
God save this county!
Tsokolet on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 9:56 pm
…..not only Aling Gloria but Pono, Bunye, Ermita, Evardone, apostol etc. etc… if the hurling wind will ever pin them down they will surely have this option in the future (taking this case of Erap as a precedent) for them to apply and be granted with pardon. What a predictable plot!
ay_naku on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:01 pm
From Adel Tamano, spokesman of the Genuine Opposition, about the pardon: “It’s a victory for Erap because he is innocent and also a victory for the President because it sends a signal that she may be sincere in her reconciliation offer. Perhaps reconciliation can happen now and perhaps the opposition will lessen the political noise with regards to Estrada’s condition.”
From Senate President Villar: “The executive clemency extended to former President Joseph Estrada is a great step towards reconciliation, which is vital to our country’s unhindered passage to progress.”
Has the political crisis been just “Edsa Dos” vs. “Edsa Tres” all along? And that a “reconciliation” is all that’s needed? So the wholesale cheating, massive corruption and bribery, blatant lying, illegal measures, and grave abuse of power, all these are just insignificant side issues lang pala?
vic on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:01 pm
An excerpt from a letter sent by :
Michael Mandel
Professor of Law
Gail Davidson
Barrister and Solicitor
Co-chairs, Lawyers Against the War
To then former PM Chretien warning him that committing domestic crimes or war crimes in any where is personal and applicable to any country:
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:02 pm
Noong kinuha nila ang mga Komunista
Wala akong pakialam,di’ naman ako Komunista, eh
Noong kinuha nila ang mga student activists
Wala din akong pakialam,di’ naman student activist ang anak ko,eh
Noong kinuha nila si Jonas Burgos
Wala rin akong pakialam,di ko naman kamaganak si Jonas!
Noong binomba nila ang Ayala Mall,
Wala rin akong pakialam,wala sa pamilya ko ang nasugatan naman,eh
Noong nagkipag-deal sila kay Erap
Wala ring akong pakialam,dahil ok naman si Erap sa akin
Isang araw,noong kinuha nila ako
Wala akong masabe,kasi Ako rin ay may sala!
Dahil hindi ako nakialam at di ako nasabi
“Lahat at may karapatan na maging Malaya!â€
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:08 pm
“The presidential pardon for Erap has finally given legitimacy to the arroyo administration.Cong Nograles”.
Straight from the horse’s mouth!
May nagpagamit,may gumamit!
There is a sucker born everyday!
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:13 pm
Great words from Mandel, Vic but I doubt that Michael Mandel’s words will have any buyer in the Philippines.
Rule of law in the Philippines is a terminology that has no real meaning for many in the highest echelons, and especially not for Gloria.
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:14 pm
Those words were similar to Robin Cook, the first British MP to resign when Tony Blair seconded Bush in the twins’ invasion of Iraq.
Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:22 pm
“technically, she can pardon all the other convicts you mentioned but why should she?”
I think the better question, Bencard, is, why Erap?
Ducks on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:24 pm
Kaya ako, I never trusted the opposition. See, see! Ang mahalaga lang sa mga taong ito ay ang kanilang sariling interes. They are just making a big, pathetic fool out of us all!
Has Mayor Binay issued a statement already? And Pimentel? Escudero? and Cayetano? All of these oftentimes refer to as “pillars” of the opposition or “true blue” oppositionists?
Can’t wait what he/they has/have to say…
It may sound very very cynical – and my apologies for this – but more often than not already, I harbor this feeling that all of these “gunggungs” are just one and the same. Tsk tsk tsk
Kawawang Pinas!
ramrod on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:26 pm
mbw, vic, equalizer, et al
I feel that there is no other logical sequence to these unacceptable but seemingly inevitable series of events but the coming “out” of congressmen, governors, mayors, probably barangay captains. They will open up to sins of indiscretions of their own, mediated and rebuked (exorcised on TV) by the bishops and Mike Velarde, emceed by Puno – a mass “executive clemency,” with “heal our land” songs and and speeches, tears, cheers, of attaining “reconciliation” at last! GMA cries “to a new beginning!” and embraces Erap…unless someone makes contra…
It was nice blogging with you guys, I love you all. Now, I must tend to this restless mini me who can’t sleep because of his 2 days pondo.
Be well…be militant…rock on!
ay_naku on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:37 pm
Hahaha! Nice one, Ramrod. But the really funny (or tragic) part is, that scenario is actually quite possible in present-day Philippines…
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:37 pm
Ramrod: Take care!Your story inspires us particularly your Gratitude to God!
God bless your son and your family!
Manila Bay Watch on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:43 pm
Hmmm, Ramrod, Gloria is perfectly capable of pushing the envelop: “GMA cries “to a new beginning!†and embraces Erap.”
To be continued…
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:48 pm
Thank God ,Tita Cory didn’t pardon Marcos after Edsa 1.We still have EDSA 1 as that one glorious moment in our history.
EDSA 2 was a farce.
vic on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:53 pm
“Now, I must tend to this restless mini me who can’t sleep because of his 2 days pondo”. ramrod
Better do, ram before it will form into methane gas and could be another puzzle for all to figure out..nice one though…hehe..have a good one!!
Karlo on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 10:58 pm
MLQ3,
The link to the sharp analysis from the really interesting post of the blogger named Scriptorium does not appear in this blog entry.
Can I request for it?
I’d like to read his/her other posts. Thanks! 
Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:02 pm
Ramrod, I’m relieved your son is now doing well.
Bencard on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:06 pm
ramrod, thanks. it is one of those unintended irony. it was actually a typo, as you said, but quite apt, isn’t it? (lol). hope your son is feeling better.
shaman, i really don’t know why erap. i guess it was kind of like paying a ransom when your most beloved son’s life is at stake. whatever pgma’s real reason is, we probably will never know. it’s in her conscience and she will live and die with it. as i commented a few posts ago, one of her biggest failure is the inability to win over her enemies’ supporters to her side, or at least cooperate with her. maybe, just maybe, this will do the trick, for the general good. in such a case, the end justifies the means, i think.
Dr. D. on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:16 pm
Karlo,
Here’s the link: http://marcusapollo.wordpress.com/
deVilsadVc8 on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:17 pm
i didn’t join EDSA 2 or 3. but if there’s a call for this one, me and whoever I can bring will be there.
The Equalizer on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:23 pm
I really admire Nelson Mandela,a great MORAL leader.He stayed in prison for 27 years in Robben Island prison because of his principles.Never asked for pardon from the despotic white apartheid government in South Africa.
On the island, he and others performed hard labour in a lime quarry. Prison conditions were very basic. Prisoners were segregated by race, with black prisoners receiving the fewest rations.
V on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:26 pm
if no one will issue the call, i will. EDSA shrine this weekend. saturday and sunday. be there.
d0d0ng on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:50 pm
With all the speculations and theories espoused here, the gathering storm is getting weaker, weaker and weaker. You don’t have to look farther. The bishops announcement is largely misinterpreted because it doesn’t fit your notions. It just mean, there is legal and political process to change the president, or just wait until the term is over. Anything else is WASTE.
Ducks on Thu, 25th Oct 2007 11:50 pm
Equalizer, that’s the kind of genuine MORAL yet STRONG, INTELLIGENT, and INSPIRING leader this country direly needs. I WISH our country sees someone like him in the political arena soon, before we go deeper into this quagmire we find ourselves in right now. Someone whom we can all rally behind towards deliverance, if you may, in all aspects of our national existence. But the question is: will our existing political culture or system allow someone like Mandela to rise to power?
The late Senator Raul Roco comes into mind.
In the present context, is wishing for someone like Mandela to emerge and save the day for Philippine politics, and the country in general, to futilely hope against hope itself? Am just being too idealistic on this matter?
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:02 am
cvj on, “What the recent bombing has shown is that people can go to ridiculous lengths to justify their apathy just as the 18 Mindanao bishops have done. As the Ayalas are realizing right now, not even them can be spared from the consequences of their apathy.”
You mean you are advocating change through brute mob force. It will not happen. You have better chances if you organize and support candidates to get elected that can make a difference.
Too speculative of Ayalas. The Ayalas are business as usual whether at court at store. It is part of business process.
Dirk Pitt on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:05 am
“to win a position of power, most especially the presidency, and to sustain it during his/her term, a politician must be a little bit machiavellian. in philippine politics, good guys usually finish last or end up a loser. i doubt whether a saint could stay holy after entering politics, assuming power, and struggling to retain it. money will always be a prime factor, that’s why the ARROYOS are concentrating on accumulating it in a magnitude that REALLY boggles the mind.”
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:07 am
ducks on, “In the present context, is wishing for someone like Mandela to emerge”
That’s the point. You have spent force waiting for superman. You might have to advertise in the yellow pages or TV primetime.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:12 am
dark pitt on, “ARROYOS are concentrating on accumulating it in a magnitude”.
If such statement is true, the congressmen and senators can use the lifecheck law for plunder charge.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:15 am
starting with you dOdOng.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:20 am
I guess you can say that. But that is equally applies to you too.
grd on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:19 am
“if no one will issue the call, i will. EDSA shrine this weekend. saturday and sunday. be there.” V
sorry V, everybody’s busy blogging on those days… even the equalizer.
Betol on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:05 am
Mr. Quezon, III
I didn’t really read much of your entry today but one thing did catch my attention. NIPS! It’s a racial epithet directed towards oriental people.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:06 am
V on, “if no one will issue the call, i will. EDSA shrine this weekend. saturday and sunday. be there.”
I believed and joined the original EDSA. It was long overdue. The rest are copycats spawning dissilussionments. Gladly I did not join them. Filipinos still don’t get it. There is legal and political processes. If you want real change, start reclaiming those processes not taking shortcuts like mobsters.
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:35 am
mlq3, this “storm” has been “gathering” since a few months after gma succeeded to the presidency. her opponents never let up. the frantic campaign to oust her intensified the moment she announced her intention to run for re-election in the 2004 election. salivating wannabees, e.g., lacson, pimentel, roco, guingona (?), the self-anointed messenger of God, villanueva, drilon, & others figured out they could have a better chance in a free-for-all sans a sitting president competing against them with all the advantage of an incumbent. she was maligned as a “liar”, no word of honor, traitor, etc., etc. apparently, they could not bear the thought of having a president for a continuous term of nine years with them on the outside looking in. they were all trashed and humiliated and for that could never “forgive” gma.
the spate of contrived “scandals”, street protests, demand for resignation, and coup attempts since the so-called edsa 3 in 2001 has not abated. the storm that has been gathering since then has so far not materialized and could be classified as a passing rain shower. the noises will continue up to 2010 and beyond. i hope, for the good of the country, they will remain as thunder and lightning but with no flooding.
indignus on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:35 am
To Mr. Quezon, thanks for citing my post. I’m glad it helped somewhat, and I promise to make part 2 when time allows. To Commenter Karlo, the URL of Scriptorium is http://marcusapollo.wordpress.com.
To Commenter Bencard (sorry, but this will be long): I think the problem with most “academic prescriptions” is that they espouse either of 3 ideals: liberal democracy, Christian democracy (syndicalism/functionalism + liberal democracy), or social democracy (syndicalism/socialism + liberal democracy). However, Philippine society is mostly a “patrimonial democracy”, w/c blurs the line between public and private funds and emphasizes duties within socio-economic relations like patronage instead of abstract/formal principles like public ethics.
So “pure” liberal democracy fails for the same reason it declined in late 19th century Europe–the middle class can’t outvote the impoverished majority w/ their bread-and-butter priorities, w/c patrimonialism answers in immediate if short-term ways. Also, Christian and social democracy can’t take patrimonialism’s place because their institutional representatives (the Church, the Left, and the unions) are excluded/discouraged by law from political action and thus can’t fully enact the programs that allowed Adenauer, for instance, to build a “social market economy†in postwar Germany.
In the US, it wasn’t liberal politics but the rise in median incomes and New Deal welfarism that finally reduced patrimonialism in the urban political machines; and in Continental Europe, it was this and the rise of the Socialist and Catholic parties. Until these ideological groups are allowed access, or the government ceases to be the main financial base of the country (and a prime source for “rent-seekers”), or the middle class increases in number, patrimonialism will probably stay on…
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:42 am
btw, can something be done about this dirk pitt who shamelessly uses my entire original comments as his own by substituting a few words to change its whole context? i know you don’t mind how stupid and asinine a comment is but would you tolerate this dastardly practice of misusing someone else’s work product (even in the relative anonimity of a blog post?) just wondering.
Robert McCall on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:03 am
To err is human, to forgive divine.
Robert McCall on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:06 am
If there are dreams about a beautiful South Africa, there are also roads that lead to their goal. Two of these roads could be named Goodness and Forgiveness.
-Nelson Mandela
Robert McCall on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:08 am
If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.
-Nelson Mandela
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:14 am
Bencard,
I suppose you can sue him…
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:16 am
dina pinoy on, “military component will not come considering the present setup. si esperon ang ver ni gloria. sinubukan na ang military component sa oakwood, di ba?”
This is to illustrate how bad is the mobster solution relying on military support. Such military support will only ensure continued protection of military interest in the future as it is brazenly done today getting the larger share of national budget driving the treasury to the poorhouse barely anything left for the needed basic services.
grd on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:36 am
bencard, i’m about to say it’s unfortunate you can’t sue the guy (mwb just beat me). i guess that’s the price for being famous. you got a stalker now.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:40 am
Erratum: My reference to Mon Casiple above (at October 25th, 2007, 1:26 pm) should instead be to Scriptorium. Apologies for the confusion.
Eloisa on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:42 am
“Madaling magmiron.”
It’s so easy to sit in one’s chair, type, criticize and make suggestions about what needs to be done.
I’m not a fan of GMA but sometimes I find it off that we keep lambasting her, and only her. She may make irritating compromises (the last one being this ERAP PARDON), but I ask anyone, if you were in her shoes, in that snakepit we call our political arena, could you do any better?
I believe it’s high time people start recognizing the other culprits. The personalities and individuals at the top layer of the power/political order. These are the same people (or their kids/grandkids/cronies) causing tribulations since the time of MARCOS.
I choose GMA over them. The least of all evils. And that’s saying a lot.
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:44 am
mbw & grd, i don’t think suing is feasible or cost effective. thanks, mbw, though, for your legal “advice”.
but mlq3, as owner of this blog, can put this guy on the url minesweeper, i think.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:52 am
“People are saying that the military should move for the kill first before the people support them. I think this is feasible under present circumstances.”
If such case is successful, that ensures the hold of military over any president who will succeed. The military was holding the axe over Cory, Estrada and today, Gloria. It is no different with the successor. Again the mob public is playing into the hands of the powerful military. Hehe.
Dirk Pitt on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:57 am
“the spate of corruption scandals, extra judicial killings, briberies, and cha-cha attempts since the so-called edsa 2 in 2001 has not abated. the storm that has befall this country since then has so far not abated and could be considered as a passing plague. the miseries will continue up to 2010 and beyond. i hope, for the good of the country, that the recent events will signal that the end of this plague is near.”
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:18 am
dark pits, you “second rate, trying hard copycat”, you are worst than our pet parakeet. at least it makes sense.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:49 am
Dr Albas economic paper is limited only to data taken in the Philippine setting. It is obvious that earnings from Filipinos working abroad have not been captured in his calculations on living standards and growth rate.
Therefore, his findings exclude a significant part of the workforce.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 6:04 am
Manolo on, “more people work abroad, and send money home, the more foreign currency they send home, the less it’s worth. The result is OFW income is actually declining.”
This is false. Income earned abroad stated at foreign currency does not change its value. Remittances sent to Philippines are converted right away into pesos which does not lose value regardless of foreign exchange. The 1,000 pesos last month when kept, is still 1,000 pesos this month if my parents wanted to spend it.
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 6:10 am
indignus, thanks for your response. that is exactly why i think a complete makeover of philippine society, starting from the individual, should take place before we can even begin to talk about reforming our system of governance. for as long as the average voter thinks of elections in terms of “what’s in it for me” instead of “what’s in it for the country, patrimonial democracy will endure. there will always be an expectation of personal quid pro quo for everything a politician does, and for every vote cast by a voter in an election or a legislator in approving legislative action. it’s a culture. no president is immune from charges of corruption regardless of whether or not he/she uses public funds for personal benefit.
once an individual voter becomes financially independent and self-sufficient, with or without help from the government, he/she will have more independence to elect true and sincere leaders, and the ability and desire to weed out the worthless and undesirables.
as one possible hope, if only the massive ofw remittances to their relatives left behind would be used to improve the latter’s social and economic status through good education and sound business investments, rather than material luxuries and pretentious living, we would have a fighting chance to create more “elites” in our society, a really strong middle class who will be in a better position to choose the kind of leaders that will govern us.
Karlo on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 6:53 am
Thanks.
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:13 am
“Bencard. She won’t because what she’s doing at the moment is just setting a precedent…”. vic
and how did you know that? if you were speculating why don’t you say so? you must be reading a lot of “journalistic” hogwash. i think we should cut this habit of making conclusions out of conjectures.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:49 am
and may i add, a strong middle class who have self descipline, who WILL follow and respect the law.
HINDI NA PINOY:
- comes on time
- hindi naglalagay
- hindi nagkakalat
- tumatawid sa tawiran
- at marami pang iba
vic on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:15 am
“and how did you know that? if you were speculating why don’t you say so? you must be reading a lot of “journalistic†hogwash. i think we should cut this habit of making conclusions out of conjectures.”
And don’t tell me you were not.. Just thinking that yours is the hogwash as you purports to be. your two cents just worth my two cents. (actually the Canadian $ is a little higher now converted to Peso).
So what is the purpose of pardoning Erap and not the rest of others who were convicted of the same crimes? If not for my “conclusion”? Gloria is smarter than you think, otherwise she should be commenting here instead of you and me. Also the idea of Estrada going to the Supreme Court and may be successful in his appeal and that would also go back to bite her for her “conspiracy” to oust him. Again these are just speculations as we can’t not read her minds and his advisers which I’m sure you are not privy too. So until yours is proven right, i’d say we are all speculating…
supremo on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:39 am
“d0d0ng :
This is false. Income earned abroad stated at foreign currency does not change its value. Remittances sent to Philippines are converted right away into pesos which does not lose value regardless of foreign exchange. The 1,000 pesos last month when kept, is still 1,000 pesos this month if my parents wanted to spend it.”
You don’t understand.
There is a finite number of pesos in circulation. It is free-floating. Its exchange rate is allowed to vary against that of other currencies and is determined by the market forces of supply and demand. The demand for the finite supply of pesos increases as more US dollars come in.
If an OFW’s family needs 500 pesos a month that OFW will only send 10 dollars if the exchange rate is P50 to $1. If the exchange rate is P45 to $1 the OFW must send $11.11. The pesos will appreciate against the dollar as more OFWs adjust the dollars they send.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:49 am
Bencard, Manolo’s policy for banning: anything goes except for threaths to fellow posters. dirk pitt’s style may be distasteful, but it petty much still falls under Manolo’s category of free speech. so either bear with him, or give him his own medicine with a twist.
Dina, where you and I differ is this. I call those who will follow and respect the law as the TRUE PINOYS and the lawbreakers as DI PINOY.
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:50 am
vic, i’ll tell you right now. as things stand, there’s just no way gma would have any need to be pardoned at anytime after her term expires. and this is not just speculation. you can take it to the bank.
btw, i don’t care if your dollar is equal to or greater than mine. i’m sure you’re dying to move here, if you can. don’t you?
ay_naku on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:55 am
Dirk Pitt, i lab-it lab-it lab-it! Keep ‘em coming.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:56 am
Devils,
so there’s no more ‘filipino time’ i guess. and where do you find a TRUE PINOY? abroad?
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:59 am
devils, thanks for the heads up. i just thought manolo has the discretion to discourage this “distasteful” act since he already did it on an impostor trying to use my handle in another distasteful manner.(i think i have an idea who the perp is). lol.
supremo on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:03 am
“d0d0ng :
Dr Albas economic paper is limited only to data taken in the Philippine setting. It is obvious that earnings from Filipinos working abroad have not been captured in his calculations on living standards and growth rate.
Therefore, his findings exclude a significant part of the workforce.”
You don’t understand.
GDP is one of the way of measuring the size of an economy.
This is one way of computing GDP.
GDP = consumption + investment + (government spending) + (exports − imports)
OFW earnings remitted to the Philippines falls under
consumption.
vic on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:03 am
me dying to move to the u.s.? you must by imagining things, Bencard. Of course we can move to the U.S. anytime you know the immigration law, don’t you? , got a family condo in N.Y. city, but no thanks…not even want to do my shopping there any more, just ordered some parts from Glock and it is more expensive than buying here.
Also there will be need to pardon GMA after her term, because she already done everything for that eventuality. smart lady that Ms Arroyo..
Malacañang issued a faxed statement denying De Venecia lll’s claims, saying he was imagining things… From INQ 7
Well, look at this, the Man is testifying under oath and the malacanang people invoked their executive privileges to open their mouths under oath and the guts to re-butt someone’s testimonies instead of going to the investigation themselves and take their oaths. Too many “smart” lawyers that Malacanang…
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:11 am
dOdOng, you ignorant prick. i’ll make it simple for you. $100 sent last month when exchange rate was P45 – $1 (which was converted right away into pesos as you “sagely” say) will amount to P4,500. contrast that with $100 sent today with exchange rate $43 – $1 which only amounts to P4,300.
what you are imagining is the OFW exchanging their dollars in their host country and then sending the pesos back home. even then, your example doesn’t cut, you prick. so ok, and budget nila palagi sa pamilya nila is P1,000 pesos. so regardless of the exchange rate, palaging P1,000 pesos lang ang papadala nila.
that is all fine IF they are earning PESOS you dumbass! but that isn’t the case now, is it? so to send P1,000 pesos last month(P45-$1), they have to earn $22.22, while to send P1,000 this month(P43-$1), they need $23.26.
and the difference will increase as the amount increase. so please shut your mouth on things you know nothing about!
and even your “the peso doesn’t lose value” my ass, is WRONG! devaluation of the peso is happening even as it is appreciating against the dollar. you know why? bec inflation is rising!
please go back to school and study your economics, prick!
ay_naku on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:11 am
Uhm, not quite, Dodong. Sige I’ll illustrate in simple terms. If say, an OFW family member sends me $1000 a month, and say, last month the exchange rate was P50:$1, then the remittance is converted into P50,000, right? Say this month the exchange rate became P45:$1, then the remittance is then converted to P45,000, correct? So I lose P5,000 because of the exchange rate. So the OFW income, when remitted here, actually declined. Diba?
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:16 am
you’re too funny, vic. btw, you can visit but you cannot reside here on a long term basis without proper visa for which you have to qualify. certainly, not anytime you want.
ay_naku on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:16 am
Oops, Devils and I reacted to Dodong’s comment at the same time (time of comment post, both 9:11am.) But I was a lot nicer to Dodong with my explanation. Hehe.
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:20 am
“All we need to know about what’s wrong with the presidential pardon for convicted plunderer Joseph Estrada, once president of the Philippines, can be found in the letter his lawyers wrote President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo on Oct. 22. “In the highest national interest, to which President Estrada is always willing to subordinate his own, we appeal to Your Excellency to grant him full, free and unconditional pardon,†they wrote.INQUIRER Editorial”
Gloria should keep Erap’s letter for future reference and use!Will come handy when she needs to plead her own case one day,for SURE!
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:22 am
ay_naku,
salamat for being nice. you’re a true pinoy!
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:28 am
Dina, i don’t call it “filipino time,” i call it, oras ng mga bastos. the problem with your thinking, is that you attach all undesirable attitude as innately Filipino in character, which is just wrong and self-defeating. that kind of thinking reinforces the bad habit itself. parang negative thinking. isipin mo at isipin na di ka aasenso, at di ka nga aasenso.
anong ginagawa ng pag label natin na ang masasamang ugaling ito ay “tatak Pilipino?” una, pinapalaganap nito na hopeless na ang pagbabago dahil nasa “dugo” na natin ang masasamang kaugalian na ito – which is not true. eh bakit ako, purong Pilipino pero palaging punctual? ibig sabihin ba non dayuhan na ako? o Pinoy na nag mutate? baka ako ang may dugong TUNAY na Pilipino at ang mga bastos ang may dugong halaw ng mga prayle.
pangalawa, itinatatak nito sa mga murang isipan ng mga bata ang maling pag-iisip na ito. which in turn will reinforce this self-defeating attitude. so, ipinapamana natin sa mga anak natin ang pagiging “loser.”
kaya next time, pag me nakita kang pinoy na nag e-exhibit ng maling gawain, tawagin mong dayuhan at wag mong tratuhin na Pinoy. dahil yon talaga sila. mga DI TUNAY na PINOY!
at san ka makakahanap ng tunay na pinoy? eh di sa loob ng bawat Pilipino. nasa loob nating lahat ang kakayahang maging TUNAY na Pinoy. kailangan lang natin tong ma-realize para maiwaksi ang mga masasamang kaugaliang ihinawa satin ng mga prayle.
ay_naku on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:32 am
and how did you know that? if you are not speculating, are you then a psychic and you can see the future? either that, or you must be reading a lot of “journalistic†hogwash. i think we should cut this habit of making conclusions out of conjectures. (Response copy-and-pasted mostly from Bencard’s own comment at 7:13 am, with a few revisions. Dirk Pitt, pahiram lang sandali ng “literary technique” mo ha.)
Has Vic directly told you that? Or this that more speculation?
Hay, I missed making patol to Bencard. Peace tayo ha.
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:33 am
devils, i know you are trying to live up to your name, but i don’t see anything dodong said that would justify you calling him a “prick” repeatedly. do you know what the word means when applied to a person? why don’t we just stay civil while airing our differences, shall we? you see, we can call each other names as cruelly as possible but what’s the point? i think we are all adults here, and if we cannot argue without resorting to ad hominem, we are are just wasting our time and we are not proving anything other than the fact that we are all JERKS.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:37 am
mali lang siguro ang pagka-intindi natin kay dOdOng. sa tingin ko, ang ibig niyang sabihin, ang P100 mo ngayon ay P100 pa rin sa taong 2100 kung ilalagay mo sa baul.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:37 am
ay_naku, ang init lang ng dugo ko sa kanya. palibhasa di maka relate at di naman sya OFW o umaasa sa isang OFW. dahil kung oo, tiyak isa yan sa magko-complain kaagad.
malas nya lang, at OFW ang nanay ko. kaya alam ko ang pinagsasasabi ko. eh sya, san ba nya napulot yang gago nyang pagkakaintindi sa economics ng exchange rate?
Dina, that’s the attiude! now, if only you’ll change your handle into something more encouraging..
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:37 am
Prick can refer to:
Prick (album), an album by the rock band The Melvins
Prick (band), an industrial rock band fronted by Kevin McMahon
“Prick”, a single by the Australian band Something for Kate
The hard part of the aedeagus, an insect’s penis
Aston East, Bolton, Lancashire.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:39 am
devils,
ang aking handle, pwede akong isang babaeng pinoy.
ay_naku on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:43 am
Yikes, I just became a bit naughty with my comment (for Bencard) above! Nahiya tuloy ako bigla. But I was just trying to be playful. And I really try to avoid using cuss/curse/profane language directed at other commenters here. (Though sometimes I slip, especially if the commenter is really foul-mouthed.)
Still, thanks DinaPinoy.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:44 am
devils,
ok. idagdag natin: ang TRUE PINOY ay hindi JERK.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:47 am
Bencard, thanks for the advice. but you know, sometimes, it’s gratifying jz calling people names (esp if it’s true). so yeah, I’m a jerk if I call him that. but still, he’s a prick and there’s no denying it.
and here’s what I got as definition for the word:
my usage of the word squarely falls on number 1! and wouldn’t you know it, the word i used is infinitely more polite than the other words listed as synonyms for the same intended message!
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:48 am
ay_naku, this time i’m in the mood to respond to you. i was not speculating. i’m stating a fact that, right now, gma has not committed any crime for which he can be convicted at the end of her term, and for which she would need to be pardoned. find a lawyer who would be interested and i would gladly debate this matter with him/her. o.k.?
as to vic, yeah, he is on record (in previous posts) expressing his wish to move to california or n.y. ask him.
Bencard on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:50 am
correction: for which SHE can be convicted…
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:51 am
Dina, kahit yan ay di applicable. oo nga, ang perang papel mong P100 ay P100 pa rin lumipas man ang ilang taon. pero pareho pa ba ang mabibili nito?
dahil ang pera ay nagde-depreciate over time.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:53 am
lols. Bencard, ryt now my response to you is in moderation. but it’ll really crack you up once you read it.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:05 am
Prick can refer to:
-Prick (album), an album by the rock band The Melvins
-Prick (band), an industrial rock band fronted by Kevin McMahon
-”Prick”, a single by the Australian band Something for Kate
-The hard part of the aedeagus, an insect’s penis
-Aston East, Bolton, Lancashire.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:07 am
i think the word p-r-i-c-k is in for moderation now.
sorry if it double-posted.
ay_naku on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:17 am
Mabilis pa sa alas-kwatro ang pagpalit ng opinion ah. (Of course you are entitled to change your mind, I’m not saying otherwise.) So really now, which is it: an “act of cowardice” for “surrendering to political blackmail”, or a “trick for the general good”?
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:23 am
na-alala ko tuloy ang kaso ng isang doktor dito sa ‘merika. he had a really old $100 and used it at a convinient store. the clerk, thinking the bill is fake, alerted the police. hinuli sya. to make the story short, he sued and won.
The Equalizer on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:24 am
Ay naku:it’s “trick or treat” time for the old fella.not surprised at all.
tonio on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:34 am
DinaPinoy:
kaso, mali pa din si dodong eh. ang PHP1,000 kung itago mo sa baul today for a few years, ano pang mabibili nun?
money has a time value and either d0d0ng doesn’t know that, or well… i don’t know.
RUMMEL PINERA on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:38 am
Hi! This is just a comment about the presidential pardon given to former Pres. Estrada. I would just like to say that the pardon given to Erap was an act of kindness to someone who has already served years of imprisonment for a crime, that was as pronounced guilty by the Philippine judicial system, which was proven, as sentenced by the Sandiganbayan, he committed. Let’s just respect the democratic processes in our country. I both joined People Power Revolutions One and Two for democracy in our land. Let’s give national reconcilliation a chance to work under the current Arroyo administration and to all succeeding administrations in this country. Peace_making is always a righteous thing in this world. I also believe that our democratic processes can really prove the legitimacy question that has haunted Arroyo’s presidency since her proclamation as the winner of the year 2004 Philippine presidential election. Our democratic processes can also prove all the allegations of corruption against the Arroyo admin as either false or true. After all, there is a probability that Mrs. Arroyo really won the year 2004 presidential election in our country. The Filipino people must continue to peacefully and lawfully work to fortify the security of human rights, democracy and civil liberties in the Philippines. Social reforms, especially elctoral reforms, should be peacefully and lawfully worked out by Filipinos to strenghthen Philippine democracy. Thanks.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:41 am
tonio,
tama ka rin. over time lumiliit ang value ng pera. pero tingnan mo, last year ang $1 = P55. ngayon $1 = P45. kung ang inilagay mo sa baul ay $, talo ka. kung pesos naman, di ba halos pareho lang? magkano na ba ang galunggung ngayon kumpara last year?
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:02 am
“I think the better question, Bencard, is, why Erap?”
indeed, shaman, why erap only? I WANT JALOSJOS FREED, TOO!!!!
sudden change of heart there, bencard, huh? gma’s biggest blunder, you keep harping back then, and now, it’s probably for the greater good. still on your rule of law crap?
who’s this wise sage who said, walang gago kung walang nagpapagago. ang alam ko, may gago.
mlq3 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:22 am
d0d0ng read alba’s paper again. and his ppt. he spends a lot of time on the impact of ofw remittances and that includes quantifying them.
tonio on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:23 am
dina:
the thing there is… would you still be able to buy much with PHP1,000 a year from now? honestly, i don’t know. what i do know is that right now, it’s even hard to get much with PHP500 nowadays.
mlq3 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:25 am
d0d0ng why is it false? you send home $1000 at P50 to $1 and then the same amount at P43 to $1, from 50,000 a month you’ve gone down to 43,000 a month. And the increase of prices at home continues unabated. And the chances that someone can go abroad and get $1,000 a month is also shrinking. This is the combination of factors Alba’s talking about.
ay_naku on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:32 am
what would happen should estrada be pardoned? gen carlos garcia, manalili, et al. should be pardoned and allowed to enjoy their loot under the equal protection clause of the constitution; ricaforte and the other co-indictees in the estrada plunder, who are still at-large, need not even be arrested and prosecuted; and all these bellyaching about graft and corruption in the philippines should just stop and treated as mere “political noiseâ€. i have already been wondering why the self-anointed civil rights ngos and mouthpieces have not raised a self-righteous finger to protest estrada’s detention in luxury and almost regular time-off for personal business, while ordinary poor criminals languish in crowded, filthy, vermin-infested cells, hardly able to visit and see their loved ones. are we living in a democracy, or under a selective “rule of law†and double standard of justice?”
- Bencard on September 25th, 2007 at 11:34 pm in entry “Panicking into the arms of defeat”
Abe N. Margallo on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:57 am
I wrote the following in early 2002 (I considered myself then a GMA sympathizer):
__________
As a matter of expediency and possibly humanitarian grounds, the proposition to exile Erap should therefore be seriously mulled over in the light of this juggling act that GMA is apparently performing on a tight rope. To leave the matter in the hands of a supposedly apolitical and unaccountable judiciary, the course the GMA government has adopted, is to ignore the reality that the resolution of the Erap cases has graver political, economic and other consequences than merely legal.
To keep the “judiciary out†and bring the “executive in†again, the following option is suggested:
1. Erap pleads guilty to his crimes as charged
2. Erap serves a minimum of one year of his sentence
3. GMA pardons Erap after serving one year
4. Erap goes on exile.
After Erap is out of the way, the GMA government then prosecutes Erap’s accomplices whom Erap should name before leaving, as part of the deal.
The less balls to juggle, the better are the chances of not missing to catch the rest.
For many interested parties including the plunder watchers and other people of like persuasion, they could always look at the foregoing proposition as a “win†situation. For one thing, a plea of guilty, a conviction and a token service of sentence on the criminal cases would be on top of the capital political penalty of loss of the presidency already meted out. Altogether, it should be as proximal as to the ideal satisfaction of the call for justice.
With the gadfly swatted out, the GMA government could now put its meager resources to better use than maintaining the expensive security measures for an ousted president pending the long drawn trial. Meanwhile, the Sandiganbayan or the Supreme Court might thus be spared from being embroiled in a predicament that certainly has more than strictly judicial implications.
If we want to show to the world that our legal or justice system works, maybe, we should first complete the dry run on the Marcoses and their relentlessly more pernicious accomplices. Many of them are back in our midst as untouchables after being driven into exile, and now doing business as usual. This privilege would be denied Erap should he leave the country as someone disqualified (because of the conviction) to re-enter elected public office while the government would be allowed to keep the alternative of prosecuting his partners in crime. For Erap, if he were not expecting a fellowship in Harvard, the option to simply enjoy fishing by Lake Tahoe would be available and quite beckoning. When knees start to buckle, isn’t it telling us that life’s too short?
________
What a difference six years make!
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:02 pm
ay_naku,
ang problema sa yo, you don’t appreciate the rule of law. sabi ni gma, eh. what’s bencard’s sense of morality to do with her presidential prerogative? kaw, talaga, learn your rule of law. ang bastas kung may butas, paki mo?
ang rule of law, bow.
Beancurd on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:14 pm
Rummel Pinera,
An act of Kindness? my shit! It is merely honor among theives. the kind of honor that makes you puke, right Mr. rule of law? Sannamagan, rule of law daw, national interest daw. Kung ang national interest ay dinedefine every now and then by the administration at hindi nakapaloob sa Constitution, e para que pa na may konstitusyon. Kung yung respect for human rights and accountability of public officers na nasa konstitusyon as napapasantabi dahil sa “national interest” at rule of law ng isang mama diyan, e para que pa? Buwagin na natin and Pilipinas
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:26 pm
ay_naku, good find! i do believe that Bencard’s rule of flaw typo is a Freudian slip from a vestigial (pre-lawyerly) sense of right or wrong.
Devils, regarding “Dinapinoy’s” distinction, it is not a rejection of being Filipino. There is a background to that and i think that reflects his/her generation. The older people saw the term ‘Pinoy’ as somewhat cheap nickname with derogatory undertones so they prefer being called with the proper name ‘Filipino’. It’s only over time that the term Pinoy has become a neutral one for everyday use. So for their generation, the proper punchline to ‘Hindi ako Pinoy’ is ‘Pilipino ako’.
alas ka dora on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:32 pm
“I believe the 18 bishops’ statement do not constitute an official statement from the CBCP – it is just a collective statement. If you are looking for an official Catholic voice, the closest one you get in our setting is the one that might be released by the CBCP, that is if they do decide to release one”
First, i’d like to thank willy for the above correction. When i read the article again, the opinion nga pala was coming from 17 or so bishops from Mindanao lead by bishop Capalla. I thought Bishop Capalla is an official of the CBCP. Althoug, i could not recall exact detail now, i think this Bishop Capalla is the same bishop who accepted bribe money from governement or was it gambling money not so long a time ago and saw nothing wrong about it.
It seem really that mistrust has become a malignant desease that has metastasis to the core of every Filipino. No amount of scandal and bombing can revive our spirit to form a potent force, like a methane gas,strong enough to bomb out the evil that is staring us on the face. Lantaran ang iskandalo but the only thing that we could do against it is blog our hearts out. I thought that convicting a powerful man of plunder was a wisp of silver lining to our campaign for a clean government because the decision will serve as warning to our public officials to keep their descipline and serve honestly or else face the full force of the law as Estrada did. But look again, he is given pardon for reasons only the benficiaries would understand.
I cannot write as eloquent or argue as well as most of you here. But like any rational being who is expected to know right from wrong, the things that are happening with this administration could really suck whatever good sense that is left of the Filipinos.
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:55 pm
bencard’s hallmark greetings on his favorite topic: the rule of law
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 12:59 pm
6 years of trial. 6 weeks of conviction. 6 minutes of o relay the pardon.
666. the devil is in the detail.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:33 pm
re peso depreciation: that’s why i’m not too inclined to put my money in the bank. inflation overtakes whatever growth your money in the bank may have.
gastusin ko na lang ngayon, ibili ng ipod, ikain sa labas, ipanood ng sine, nag enjoy pa ako. kesa hintaying kahit pandesal di na ito maibili.
re Jalosjos, i thought he was already pardoned by GMA this last election.. (correct me if I’m wrong)
and there’s a poor man languishing in jail convicted of a rape he cannot possibly do. he’s a quadriplegic, i understand. and for those who do not know, quadriplegics are paralzyed from the neck down, and also cannot get “it” up. they are already impotent. Ramon Tulfo covered this story in his column maybe a year ago (i think). so much for GMA’s “justice” and concept of “pardon.”
he may be liable for verbal or sexual harassment, but not possibly rape as defined in our penal code. idk what kind of crack the judge was sniffing to convict this man.
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:37 pm
I WANT JOCJOC THE ROTARIAN POCPOC FREED AS WELL!
AND IMELDA, TOO!
help me out here, bencard. give me names, more names. oh, how i love our glorific justice system! [i am actually having uncontrolled orgasm just thinking about the rule of law.]
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:46 pm
Should any one be surprised that GMA pardoned Erap? Mon Dieu! (for the benefit of French-speaking MBW). This is the Corruption Capital of Asia, where corruption is the highest virtue! Has everyone forgotten that? Could we expect GMA to have acted differently? To GMA and her cohorts, not pardoning Erap would be like God sending a Saint to Hell.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:46 pm
cvj, my complaint abt dina’s statement wasnt abt the old deregatory use of “pinoy” vs Filipino, but the overall use of the name Pinoy or Filipino to attach it to our character faults. it simply promotes a vicious cycle of looking down on our own race, thereby ensuring that we practice those char traits bec fighting it is useless bec it’s in “our blood.”
rule of flaw. that’s the new clique today. i wonder where i can buy a conscience that can tolerate that…
tonio on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:50 pm
emilie:
they actually caught the pocpoc? i thought he was still at large, moving from one Rotary district to the next? hahahah!
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:52 pm
I don’t care if they issued it collectively, singularly, as CBCP, or just as citizens. they were priests, and they issued the statement with a priest’s authority (which they have just lost), and they will reap their collective amorality when they face God.
so yes, I’m pissed that even our priests have been possessed by the evil of amorality. and if they have the freedom of speech to issue that statement, so do i have the same to tell them: go to hell, bishops! kiss satan’s ass for me!
alas ka dora on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 1:58 pm
easy,inodoro ni emilie. Siguro ilagay na lang natin ang galit natin sa pamamaraan na maapektuhan yung gumawa ng kalokohan. Sa tingin ko lahat dito kung makakalapit lang ki GMA pinlipit na ang leeg. Not so much is achieve spewing our anger with fellow bloggers. Lets show the devil it cannot triumph against good. But how? ako kahit ilan pang people power an maganap kun yan ang kailanagang mangyari hangang sa makakuha tayo ng matinong mamumuno sa atin, I will never get tired of joining street protest.
tonio on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:00 pm
devils:
if you fancy yourself to be the arbiter of morality, as those priests do, then everything you do is moral.
Willy on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:11 pm
Devilsadv,
Fine. No problem if you feel that way.
Scriptures says: Do not give what is holy to the dogs.
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:12 pm
I firmly believe Bencard when he said that it was all in compliance with the “rule of flaw”.
No, Bencard, it was not a typo error. Ever since Gloria seized presidential powers, we have been living under the “rule of flaw”. It was divinely-inspired and you were chosen to deliver the message. God is wise, and He knows exactly who to choose.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:35 pm
Manolo, thanks for asking.
That “OFW income is declining”, is false. You are implying of the value of goods and services that money can buy or purchasing power which is different from earnings or income. Simply, income does not change except for salary increase.
Likewise, significant portion of income is used to pay bills, expenses and retained as savings that less portion is sent for remittances. The foreign currency translation on remittance has no bearing on the significant portion of income retained and used.
The statement that “the increase of prices at home continues unabated” is false. Annual inflation as of September, 2007 in the Philippines is 2.7% which is the same inflation rate in the US.
I am having fun reading devilsadvocate posting and of supremo… hehe.
Ay Naku, thanks.
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 2:45 pm
“Ay naku:it’s “trick or treat†time for the old fella.not surprised at all.” – Equalizer
Are you sure you didn’t mean “prick or treat”?
grd on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:03 pm
DevilsAdvc8 :
Bencard, thanks for the advice. but you know, sometimes, it’s gratifying jz calling people names (esp if it’s true). so yeah, I’m a jerk if I call him that. but still, he’s a prick and there’s no denying it.
so harion, you’ve been influenced now by the other blog? of course, dodong is wrong re the value of ofw’s remittances. i should know because i’m an ofw and right now we are bleeding the reason for that call for a remittance boycott on nov 1 & 2 – more than 20% is lost due to the exchange rate plus another 20% due to the rising prices at home.
pero bakit ka ba subrang nagagalit kay dodong? dahil sa pagiging ignorante niya or dahil lumiit na ang natatanggap mo na allowance sa perang padala ng nanay mo?
alas ka dora on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:14 pm
“Scriptures says: Do not give what is holy to the dogs.”
Willy, although it does not get across my understanding your use of this line, i guess this could have been taken from that scene in the bible where a woman approached Jesus Christ and asked Him to heal her daughter, who is possessed by the devil. To which Jesus replied, ” the food intended for the children of God should not be given to the dogs”. But what impresses me on this scene is not what Jesus Christ had said to the woman but the rebuttal of the woman to Jesus Christ,”even the dogs eat cramps that fall from their master’s table” Very witty answer, don’t you think. I just need to figure out the relevance of this particular episode to our current plight.
I think, Dodong, you still don’t get it. O di naman kaya talagang nililito mo lang ang bagay na ito. By the appreciation of peso, the peso equivalent of the dollar has gone down. To a simple household there is less peso to spend now than before from the same amount of dollar that is being sent by their family members working abroad. An inflation of 2.7% is still a price increase of that rate from a year ago level. We have a situation here where our disposable income has shrunk but prices of goods continue to increase
alas ka dora on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:26 pm
Shaman, baka mas appropriate “the rule of glo/glue”
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:29 pm
Just weather forecasting by non-meteorological people.
grd on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:34 pm
dOdOng, i think you got it wrong re remittances. you might be talking about immigrants or those ofw’s who have their families with them. you should know that most ofw’s (or the migrant workers) left their families back home and so the bulk of their earnings abroad are being sent directly through remittances (for basic needs and education). it’s not just about what’s left for savings or the small portion of the ofw’s salaries. if you are say in the middle east or a seaman, it’s either 70-30 or 80-20. it means 70% is being remitted while 30% is kept by the ofw’s (maybe in western countries it could be 50-50 for those whose families are in the phils). but imagine now with the dollar continuously dropping plus the local price increases, an ordinary ofw who’s sending P50,000 per month has to shell out more dollars to maintain it.
how can you stop the bleeding? maybe one solution for ofw’s is to bring their families with them abroad but not all can have this kind of privilege.
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:34 pm
The official inflation rate is one of those economic metrics that the ordinary man in the street finds irrelevant in his day-to-day life, together with the GNP, GDP, Phisix, etc. Let us remember that the inflation rate is a weighted average of the prices of a basket of goods and services.
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:37 pm
I do not see any logic in th Boycott remittance. The difference is only the date for remitting.
Don’t they know that there are really no remittances done in November 1 and 2 because it is a holiday in the Philippines.
So most remittances are done before and after.
Especially door to door.
In the banking system, it is the same. Even though it is sent here in Nov. 1, the banks acceptance would never be reflected on the same date.
NO brainer. Sus.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:38 pm
Dodong,
My office rental is based on Usd and contract made last year was 1000Usd/month. Please see the impact of strong peso against the Usd. So now I’m short of 8,150Usd or 185.86Usd (based on current rates).
1 year ago
1 Usd = 52 Php
1000Usd = 52,000Php
Now
1 Usd = 43.85Php (Chinabank)
1000Usd = 43,850Php
Difference of = 8,150Php
As for price increase of commodities, just look at the current prices of groceries, gasoline, electricity, compared to last year, no just 3 month’s ago. I accompany my wife when buying groceries, if you don’t believe me I’ll show you my credit card bills.
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:42 pm
GDP does not include OFW earnings. It measures ONLY domestic production. There is the word DOMESTIC.
GNP includes Gross Domestic Product plus overseas earnings
of Filipino nationals whether individual or corporations.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:43 pm
Dodong,
PS.
Thats why I made arrangements for my salary to be converted into pesos using 52Php = 1Usd (arranged by HSBC) as early as last year when it was evident that I will be staying in the Philippines for a long time.
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:45 pm
Agree.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:46 pm
The Cat,
GDP = gawa dito sa Pinas
GNP = gawa ng Pinoy
for easy reference…
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 3:51 pm
The official inflation rate is one of those economic metrics that the ordinary man in the street finds irrelevant in his day-to-day life, together with the GNP, GDP, Phisix, etc. Let us remember that the inflation rate is a weighted average of the price increases of a basket of goods and services. To the ordinary person, only very few of the items in that basket matter to him, and these are basicaly food items. Anybody who goes to market will know that prices of fish, meat and vegetable can increase anywhere from 10% to 15% or even higher. And this is what hits the pocketbook. So, an official inflation rate of 2.7% is meaningless vis-a-vis the realities of the palengke.
(Please disregard the previous post. It was sent prematurely.)
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 4:14 pm
On Dr. Michael Alba’s paper.
MLQ3, he did not quantify. He merely presented secondary data and put them into graphs.
Quantification is different in economics. When you quantify, you make use of the mathematics and quantitative methods t or prove your point.
It is this scholarly presentation that I dislike when I sit in a panel.
Its nothing but collating some figures that are not even comparable.
One flaw in comparing GDP or GNP across nations is the currencies to which these measures of growth of economy are presented. When converted to common currency, there is another flaw that sticks to people who are analytical enough to undertand that there are deflators and inflators that have to be considered.
There are also other economic environments to consider.
The statement that OFW’s relatives stop working while receiving remittances may just be PERCEPTIONS. It does not necessarily follow that they do not work because they’re lazy.
They stop working to concentrate on studying.
I said perceptions because I do not see quantifications like there are 1000 OFWs and 200 members of their households stopped from working. And how many of these stopped for the reason that they just became lazy. NADA.
To describe the shrinking purchasing power of money to lay people, I would just say, bring a smaller basket. There are not so much that you can buy anyway.
alas ka dora on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 4:23 pm
Hindi ko nga alam kung ano ang kasali sa basket of goods that is used to measure inflation. Kasi galunggong nga lang dating 70/k ngayon 90/k. kamatis, sibuyas ganun din. Ang alam ko isa sa kasama sa goods ang alaska milk. I wonder kung magkano an increase nito from last year. Meron tinatawag na distortion or biases in measuring cpi. halimbawa yung milk na Nido can be repackage in such a way that it will come out as a different product from the Nido that we know a year ago so that altough its price may have increased significantly, it will not be recorded as a price increase because there is nothing to which you can compare this product last year. O di ba smart yan.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:30 pm
Point taken.
I think if you take up law as a profession, you’re halfway there. (There’s definitely something in our law schools that molds lawyers consciences a certain way.) Then go into politics and stay there until you reach a ripe old age. Almost guaranteed, you’ll be another Joker Arroyo.
grd on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:39 pm
“To describe the shrinking purchasing power of money to lay people, I would just say, bring a smaller basket. There are not so much that you can buy anyway.†The Cat
eto naman si cat-cat. akala subra-subra ang napapamili ng tao pag namamalengke at sasabihin liitan ang dala-dalang basket. umaangal na nga yung tao dahil kapos ang kinikita. para ka ring si ate glue ng sabihing kayang mabuhay ng isang tao sa P36/day. puede sana kung kagaya lang yan ng pusa mong si muning na puede mong sabihang “muning, dalawang beses ka na lang kumain sa isang araw ha? medyo tipid-tipid muna tayo at tumataas ang mga bilihin.”
http://www.pcij.org/blog/?p=1242
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 5:48 pm
Was there ever a study made to the reasons why consumer spending is not in consonance with the reported 7.5% GDP growth? or even 2.7% inflation rate?
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 6:19 pm
ramrod, what do you mean by that? isn’t consumer spending consonant with the 7.5% GDP growth? it rose by 6%.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 6:27 pm
i do believe Mike Wallace that the GDP is being inflated because imports are under-reported since smuggled goods are not counted.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:31 pm
“ramrod, what do you mean by that? isn’t consumer spending consonant with the 7.5% GDP growth? it rose by 6%.” – cvj
The consumption of packaging (paper) material is the not much different from last year, even magazine paper (advertising), is there a breakdown of sectors where this 6% growth came from? Did this really come from consumer spending or basically government spending?
indignus on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:40 pm
Just a thought, but maybe the worrisome aspect of the increase in money supply is its uneven downstream effect on real incomes. Shaman of Malilipot has a point: Beyond mean and aggregate economic numbers is the stark reality faced by the fixed or piece wage earner whose income hasn’t yet caught up with prices…
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:48 pm
ramrod, i had a blog entry on the the GDP growth for last quarter here here.
i tried to study the growh patterns here.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:51 pm
Ramrod, my links are still under moderation but in my blog, i tried to study the GDP quarterly results as well as the growth patterns. Will have to wait for Manolo’s approval.
In computing for GDP, Government consumption is a separate item from personal consumption but we cannot discount the possible multiplier effect, i.e. that government consumption put money in the hands of individuals which then spent it under personal consumption.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 7:57 pm
indignus, i agree. the increase in GDP juxtaposed with the SWS’s findings that the poor are spending more of what they earn on food means that the gains of the economy are being channeled to the relatively well-off. It’s a ‘trickle-up’ effect, a hallmark of Arroyonomics.
The Ca t on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:05 pm
You didn’t get what I mean?
Instead of depreciation of pesos due to inflation and any other high sounding economic jargons, I rather use the term basket for lay person. As the basket shrinks it means the goods that the peso can buy get a lot lesser.
Too many economists in this forum who hardly understand what’s the difference between the inflation and deflation, real GDP and REAL GNP blah blah blh.
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:22 pm
cvj,
Another way of looking at it is, the consumption of packaging and advertising material (printed) this year is more or less the same as last year’s, in effect this means the consuming population is buying less in terms of food products or magazines. The previous quarters showed that the actual consumption of packaging material from large food companies like Nestle and SMC, even cigarette manufacturers like Philip Morris and Fortune Tobacco were very much less than what was forecasted at the beginning of the year.
Thats why its very difficult to reconcile the 7.5% GDP growth to the actual consumer scenario. Most businessmen are asking where is this growth?
As The Cat would put it bluntly, the consumer is going to the supermarket with a smaller basket (which is quite accurate also from the businessmen’s point of view).
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 8:45 pm
oh sure, their incomes are not declining. so Manolo was wrong on this one word. but the intended message was unmistakable. fixed income or not, the strong peso is affecting the “remittances” being sent back home. and “remittances” po ang nababawasan. happy?
neither. porket di sya apektado, kung makapagsalita tong mokong na to eh solb-solb na lahat.
one component of my barren Philippines, precluding Bastille.
vic on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:07 pm
bencard, yeah I was in record saying to move to California and to New York To stay a little longer with my youngest twins sisters and their family after I retire, which is anytime now if I so choose, but to live there without my Universal Publicly funded Health care, you must be kidding? How many thousands of Retired Canadians own houses and cottages by the Southern States during winter and come back during summer, why because we are allowed 9 months (maybe 4 mos. in the u.s., 4 in pinas and 4 in To) out of the country and still covered by our Health Care . no Cost at all, no premium whatsoever. And I can cross the border anytime by just showing my passport and stay there as my second residence and to get that paper is as easy as 123 and you know that, don’t you…and you also know that thousands of Americans also own cottages by our Lakes and they can come Anytime and stay as their second residence…
grd on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:34 pm
“You didn’t get what I mean?” The Cat
whoops, sorry cat-cat. my bad, i just missed it.
cvj on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 9:42 pm
ramrod, in terms of industry sectors, my counterparts in the Philippines have been very upbeat this year. i share Geo’s optimism on the BPO and IT Services industry especially since the big wigs who grew the business in India are now focusing attention at us. i guess the same sort of optimism is felt in the Mining sector.
supremo on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:10 pm
Peso o dollar yata mismo ang kinakain ni dOdOng at Cat. Ano ba ang magandang luto sa peso? Sinigang o adobo? Ang dollar grilled na lang?
ramrod on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:10 pm
cvj,
I see, I was also optimistic about the BPOs (my brother is with People Support and I have good friends in Sykes), IT Services, mining, and SMEs earlier, and expected quite a strong upward impact to our industry (paper and board) but the businessmen (mostly large paper traders and industrial/commercial packaging/publication printers seem to report a flat growth or none at all) which is strange. Anyway, the year isn’t over yet and the only way to look at it sensibly is to compare the yearly figures and not look at the “now” only. I probably need to do more digging…
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 10:50 pm
“An inflation of 2.7% is still a price increase of that rate from a year ago level. We have a situation here where our disposable income has shrunk but prices of goods continue to increase”
The inflation rate is national average of increase of prices of goods and services. If you live within NCR, you have 2.8% price increase but outside it is 2.5% increase. Of course, one can claim paying 15% increase. To hold that it is true, somebody is paying 9.6% decrease in price to have the 2.7% average. But that is not the point.
I would like to bring up the fact that “we always blame the government for anything including inflation, in particular President Arroyo.” That would have been okay if supported by facts. However, inflation a year ago was 5.7% and reduced to 2.7% in September, is an improvement we just ignore because it does not fit your thinking. That is not objective anymore, is it (in this habitual blaming game)?
The other part, is why Filipinos think they are cheated paying 2.7% price increase while Americans are paying the same price increase percentage. Somehow, something is wrong with that because Filipino entrepenuer wanted something more also in delivering necessary goods and services to the market.
d0d0ng on Fri, 26th Oct 2007 11:25 pm
supremo on, “GDP = consumption + investment + (government spending) + (exports − imports). OFW earnings remitted to the Philippines falls under consumption.”
That is not correct either. Only the portions of the remittance that was actually spent.
The obvious flaw is that GDP is regional. It only applies to spending activity in the Philippines. It does not capture the consumptions of OFWs abroad, say buy his clothes, food, drinks, etc. Plus items bought abroad and sent in balikbayan boxes.
d0d0ng on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:20 am
ramrod on, “My office rental is based on Usd and contract made last year was 1000Usd/month. So now I’m short of 8,150Usd or 185.86Usd (based on current rates).
I assume you set your contract in USD rather in pesos in anticipation of deteriorating foreign exchange because of historical data. That would have been true until the time of President Arroyo.
But that is part of business decision, you lose in stronger peso but you would stand to gain on weak peso either.
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:33 am
whatever their purposes are, i must thank all those who painstakingly compiled my past comments concerning my position on erap’s pardon. i just wish these same people had the same zeal in opposing it when it was just being talked about, as now that it has become a fiat accompli. with the exception of a few that i could remember, such as rego, geo, rom, and mlq3 (who, i think, i prodded to make a mild and qualified statement of opposition), etc., etc., i did not see any real interest on the issue in this blog, especially among the hate-gloria club members. i wonder what could have happened if there was an edsa-type demo against the pardon before it was granted. the “anti-corruption” lip-servers and breast-beaters must have been sound asleep.
i have not wavered, nor i am wavering, on my sentiments against the pardon. i still see, from my personal point of view, that the action was a mistake. i cringe whenever i see the convict triumphantly waving, wearing a sinister and mocking smirk, on tv to his admirers as though he was found “innocent”. i feel outraged whenever his son, jinggoy, insist on calling him president (while addressing the incumbent, plain Mrs.Arroyo), and proclaiming that the pardon was a vindication of his father’s “innocence” (an idiotic utterance, i might say).
but, at the end of the day, erap has been pardoned by the president in exercise of her prerogative under the constitution. the deed is done, signed sealed and delivered. perhaps, it’s my decades of living in a real democracy, and working as a litigator, that sets me apart from the ordinary “pinoy” mindset. i have long realized that one cannot always win, and so must learn to accept defeat, after a good fight. after the initial shock of losing, one must learn to reconcile his beliefs with the reality, and look for the silver lining in the big picture that could transform defeat into a bigger triumph.
in the context of erap’s pardon, the way i see it, pgma was faced with a gut-wrenching dilemma. from day one of her presidency, she has been begging for a national reconciliation necessary to channel the nation’s energy to improving the lives of its people, her ultimate goal. instead, she has been relentlessly thwarted, attacked, ridiculed, undermined, if not totally ignored. much of the onslaught comes from erap’s fanatics, whom he controls, and who would do his bidding anyhow, anytime. it would not be too hard to see (from gma’s standpoint) that removing estrada from the equation, or at least neutralizing him, would substantially diminish, if not totally eliminate, vicious opposition to her governance.
i can understand the reaction of the people here to my apparent “change of heart”. these are the same people with one-track, one dimensional view of politics – people who could not concede election defeat, who could not even consider that ” the other guy makes sense”, or that “the other guy is right”. rather it’s always “a, basta, ako ang tama, walang makapagbabago sa aking pananaw”.
d0d0ng on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 12:35 am
devilsadvocate on, “intended message was unmistakable. fixed income or not, the strong peso is affecting the “remittances†being sent back home. and “remittances†po ang nababawasan. happy?”
mas pikon pa si misis kay sa yo…naintindihan kita. Let assume Manolo is right. It should be a stronger motivation for you look for a job locally to support you and your family to become selfsustaining without the financial support of your mother. I am sure you can do it because you have been knowledgeable in this forum.
Bencard on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:08 am
btw, the deed is done. you can’t put the genie back into the bottle. now, you will be marching in the streets without erap’s minions. i will have the rags ready to wipe your faces once again with you-know-what.
d0d0ng on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:24 am
grd on, “how can you stop the bleeding?”
Let us understand what is going on. The BSP can stop the bleeding and intervene by mopping up excess dollar on the market. However, it stands to absorb the forex differences as a loss. The strong peso is brought about by 3 factors, increase remittances, surge of investments and export receipts.
I tell you why BSP intervention is unlikely through year end. One component is the investment surge which is speculative. Meaning, traders bought Philippine peso early anticipating it will be strenghtend further at year end because of increasing OFWs remittances, evidence of economic growth and reigned inflation (gov’t trying to hold prices down towards Xmas). You can infer in the link that traders were moving as early as June.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/21/business/sxasia.php
The traders will gain on foreign exchange difference of stronger peso. If I am the BSP governor, I will not subsidize the traders gain.
What can you do? Defer remittances as far as you can towards early 2008 when foreign exchange will usually go up and traders will be changing investments, or encourage your family to borrow (if interest is less worth the fx difference) for a while until you can send remittance on 2008.
The Ca t on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:56 am
Whatever I am spending is irrelevant to the topic. Don’t try to explain phenomenon that you cannot fully understand.
it is your explanation of the GDP which is wrong.
Shaman of Malilipot on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 9:16 am
“Of course, one can claim paying 15% increase. To hold that it is true, somebody is paying 9.6% decrease in price to have the 2.7% average. But that is not the point.” -d0d0ng
Somebody is paying 9.6% decrease in price of what? Air-conditioner? In a country where the main concern of the majority is how to put food on the table, a decrease in the price of luxuries is hardly a cause for rejoicing if the aim is the improvement of the general quality of life. To me, that’s the whole point.
DevilsAdvc8 on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 11:26 am
dOdOng, kung makapagsalita ka para kang kung sino. eto, isampal mo sa mukha mo. I AM LEAVING. yes. for a job overseas not here. ang sweldo ko sa call center na ikinakainggit ng iba, pinagtatawanan lang ni mama at tinatapatan lang ng allowance ko. so look for a job locally? thanks but no thanks.
kaya ako nagagalit di dahil sa kulang pera ko, bagkus dahil sa mga kapatid ko na umaasa pa rin kay mama. pito kaming magkakapatid at ang dalawang pinakabunso ay magdo doktor, kaya wala akong maitutulong kung dito na lang ako magpapakahirap sa sweldong di angkop sa kakayahan ko.
wag ka ngang magsalita na parang me kinalaman ka sa buhay ng iba. oo na, maayos buhay mo kesyo bumaba o tumaas man ang piso. kaya wag ka na sumingit sa mga bagay na di ka naman apektado!
inodoro ni emilie on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:16 pm
“i can understand the reaction of the people here to my apparent “change of heartâ€. these are the same people with one-track, one dimensional view of politics – people who could not concede election defeat, who could not even consider that †the other guy makes senseâ€, or that “the other guy is rightâ€. rather it’s always “a, basta, ako ang tama, walang makapagbabago sa aking pananawâ€.”
your conscience is screaming, i can hear your soliloquy loud and clear.
one track indeed. we are living in hyperspace. in politics, there is more to the rule of law. what is legal is not necessarily moral. prerogative na kung prerogatice, ang tanong bencard, was her action just? your idea of governance is myopically focused on the opposition to her contested leadership. my idea of moral governance is one who can whip the lash on corruption. which universe are you in?
triolosbogus on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:18 pm
Devil, what the American is suggesting maybe to join Politics and make yourself a millionaire, just like most of the them, but to suggest personal choices to someone you don’t even know just exposed the Arrogance of those who themselves are working and residing abroad and take the local situation for granted.. I myself decided that working locally even with a better than average income would still put you in insecure position when you have to pay taxes and not enjoying the benefits from them. Just the cost of Medical care for oneself and family member is enough to lose a lifetime savings, and sending your children to get the most valuable treasure in life, the Proper Education is a daily struggle.. Had I stayed and not so lucky to be a politician, I won’t be seeing the family get off from the never ending search of living in Human Dignity…as we see it day to day, in the squatter’s ghettos, in poor barangays all over the country especially in Southern Philippines and for us living in Middle Class societies, enjoying our starbucks in the morning before going to work and having a beer or two or wine after a sumptuous dinner, a suggestion to those left in the country for a choice that is personal is smack in pretentious arrogance and will cause more divisiveness…
inodoro ni emilie on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 1:45 pm
did you bother to check his primary references?
(1) Penn World is readily available on the net
http://pwt.econ.upenn.edu/php_site/pwt61_form.php
(2) Barro and Lee (2000) provides measures of human capital stock for a broad number of countries that pertains mostly to OECD members, and does not include the Philippines.
if quantification is what you are looking for, did you bother to read section 4 where alba explicated how he extended barro and lee’s study to provide estimates (using cobb-production function) not just for the philippines but also for other asian countries to provide meaningful comparisons. the tables he provides in the appendix are not merely “secondary data and put them into graphs” but are derivatives of his own based on indices provide by penn and barro & lee’s study. hindi po cut and paste. Por que ba’t sinabi ni alba “drawing national income accounts and population data from blah blah” ay voila, eto na in graphical form lang po ang mailathala ko sa mga mambabasa.
mag-cross research ka, nasa panel (ehem, ehem, what’s next in this resume building?) ka pa naman.
BrianB on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 2:15 pm
Re: Dollar rates. I personally lost what amounts to a new high-end phone because I didn’t convert my dollars late last year.
I’m guessing it’s high time I went to the US.
ramrod on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:11 pm
BrianB,
I am contemplating on going to Europe but lets see what happens.
ramrod on Sat, 27th Oct 2007 10:18 pm
Bencard, there is nothing wrong with changing your heart, mind, views, or direction…
Bencard on Sun, 28th Oct 2007 9:29 am
ramrod, maybe you misunderstood. i said “apparent” change of heart. there has been no change in my belief that the pardon was ill-advised. i said that now that it’s been done, nobody can undo it (except, perhaps, estrada himself by violating the conditions attached to it), and we should look for the possible benefits, i.e., unity and reconciliation to a significant extent at least, if not totally. would you not like that?
d0d0ng on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 10:48 pm
devilsadvocate on, “I AM LEAVING. yes. for a job overseas not here. ang sweldo ko sa call center na ikinakainggit ng iba, pinagtatawanan lang ni mama .”
This is the issue in Manolo’s blog that foreign earnings is losing value (in purchasing power due to strong peso). Then having local job is better. Apparently, that is not the case as you proudly proclaim yourself to become another OFW despite of stronger peso.
d0d0ng on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:01 pm
inidoro on, “did you bother to check his primary references?”
Penn World data has its limitation. It cannot capture both the earnings and consumption of Filipinos ABROAD which is a significant to the analysis.
Data such as Penn World is as good only as its own limitations . The other way to say it is inconclusive as far as OFW is concerned. DR Albas study is good only if it excludes OFW.
d0d0ng on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:40 pm
Shaman on, “Somebody is paying 9.6% decrease in price of what? Air-conditioner? In a country where the main concern of the majority is how to put food on the table, a decrease in the price of luxuries is hardly a cause for rejoicing if the aim is the improvement of the general quality of life. To me, that’s the whole point.”
Let us look at your whole point. It is true that the concern is how to put food on the table. Americans will not take it lightly to see their food basket shrinking either.
So let us look at CPI US vs Phil. Let us pick up NCR which has 2.8 price increase compared with US Urban cities incidentally has 2.8 price increase.
In Philippines, the food went up by 3.8 while energy (light & water) by 4.5, all other items being lower to have 2.8 increase.
In American urban cities, the food went up by 4.4 while energy by 5.3, all other items being lower to have 2.8 increase.
Whew! Americans are paying more than Filipinos and they are not as whiny as you guys blaiming the government.
d0d0ng on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:49 pm
devilsadvocate on, “kung makapagsalita ka para kang kung sino. eto, isampal mo sa mukha mo.”
Get used to that kiddo. When you are in another country you will understand what I am saying. Learn it from me. Hehe.
d0d0ng on Mon, 29th Oct 2007 11:57 pm
devilsadvocate, i said earlier that i am having fun… because you have no experience. When you go abroad you will find later on what it means by hard labor….it includes getting shit in your face (then you can remember me). Your call center job is like luxury in comparison. I let you find out… good luck, kid.
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:00 am
it would be irrelevant for me, doofus. as i will bring my family with me. there’s a new trend in town many are not seeing yet.
it is emigration in mass droves.
you ignoramus. it is precisely bec i am USED to IT that i am unable to take it lying down meekly and swallow your bullshit hook, line, and sinker. so hehe yourself.
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:04 am
aber, ano ba trabaho mo? ass-wiper?
hard labor in the Phils vs hard labor in the US. it’s a no-brainer which I would choose. unless your are contending that ass-wiping in the US is harder than ass-wiping in here.
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:11 am
one, their kool-aide has been spiked with an idiotizing enzyme, and two, the Americans can endure to pay more because they have MORE to pay more.
and whiny? the more intelligent Americans are more whiny than our passive kababayans. and more pro-active with their stand as well. who you calling whiny, weiner?
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:13 am
“aber, ano ba trabaho mo? ass-wiper?”
call center immature boy vs phil expat oversees currency in 5 financial world center, no comparison
you have to eat more rice…yikes.
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:15 am
“who you calling whiny, weiner?
y-o-u
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:17 am
“ignoramus”
just look at yourself….i knew there are those who are not like you at call center.
Shaman of Malilipot on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:21 am
“Whew! Americans are paying more than Filipinos and they are not as whiny as you guys blaiming the government.”d0d0ng
Have you tried looking at the disparity between the income levels of the Americans and the Filipinos? You’ll see why the Americans are less “whiny”.
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:22 am
“it is precisely bec i am USED to IT that i am unable to take it lying down meekly and swallow your bullshit hook, line, and sinker.”
that is what happen working in call center….hehe,
you can’t do anything about it, huh?
just consider this, this is your therapy session…LOL
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 12:25 am
excellent point, shaman… you are catching up.
if the point of issue is income, then it is personal, not government. You have to earn a living in a company that can provide the highest income possible for you and your family. Still, the valid point, why whiny because you are earning less. Do something about it. The government can not do it for you.
inodoro ni emilie on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 7:14 am
consider that a limitation of the study, dodong. your comment is how a critique should be made, after all we are talking here of a study that compares standards of living ceteris paribus [for not all countries in alba's study have strong ofw phenomenon going for them].
blatantly exalting academic position has nothing to do with the merits or demerits of the study. nakasakay ka man sa panel ng truck, ano ngayon? am sure you get my drift.
Shaman of Malilipot on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 10:57 am
“The government can not do it for you.” d0d0ng
I’m not saying that the government should do the earning for the worker. It’s easy to say to look for the job that pays well, but it’s not there. However, it is the government’s role to set the conditions for the private business sector to prosper and generate more and better jobs that will put more money in the pockets of the ordinary worker. It’s not happening right now because of failed political leadership, bureaucratic incompetence, and systemic corruption.
Poverty will never be alleviated unless we get the kind of leadership that some of our neighbors have been blessed with.
alas ka dora on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 11:20 am
“The other part, is why Filipinos think they are cheated paying 2.7% price increase while Americans are paying the same price increase percentage. Somehow, something is wrong with that because Filipino entrepenuer wanted something more also in delivering necessary goods and services to the market.”
dODONG,
To aid you in understanding the whole thing, you need to comapre the per capita income of the americans vs. juan dela cruz. Dollar-to-dolla i’m sure you will know why a price increase of any number is abominable to Filipinos than to the americans. Can you live with less than a dollar a day per capita?
alas ka dora on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 11:35 am
I have an in law who is a nurse in UK. she is earning about 2,700 euro a month. At today’s exchange rate, this would amount to almost 200,000 Php. you will need tp be a ceo in the pilippines to be able to earn this amount.
My sister in law by tha way told me that you can live comfortable with 700 euro/month. An inflation of 3% is nothing t them because their salariea have a yearly increase of about 5%. Do we have that kind of opportunity here. So what if GDP is 7.5%, can an ordinaryjuan de la cruz afford decent meal?
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 11:42 pm
alas ka dora on, “Do we have that kind of opportunity here?”.
alas ka dora on, “Can you live with less than a dollar a day per capita?”
shaman on, “Poverty will never be alleviated unless we get the kind of leadership that some of our neighbors have been blessed with.”
You guys can write a book to prove your point.
I’ll make it simple.
That illusive opportunity, capita or blessed leadership that you are talking about….how many peoples power had been waged in Manila without any tangible results. Aber!
That is not apathy either as cvj suggest anything that did not take his narrow view. There is difference between pragmatic solution and waste.
d0d0ng on Tue, 30th Oct 2007 11:53 pm
inodoro on “for not all countries in alba’s study have strong ofw phenomenon going for them”.
inodoro on “has nothing to do with the merits or demerits of the study”.
check again, the statements are contradictory.
if data are not comparable, then the conclusion or analysis is skewed.
pls, don’t be mad…am sure you can look at it objectively
inodoro ni emilie on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 6:58 am
those are not contradictories, but are in fact unrelated statements. the first follows your critique, the second is for someone [not you] who thinks the way to make a critique is to lay down first one’s academic cards, like as if this appeal to authority (?????) makes for a sound analysis.
am not mad. sorry for this mislead.
the jester-in-exile on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 8:57 am
pragmatism (adj) – the best justification for a whore to spread her legs.
the jester-in-exile on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 8:58 am
oops, i meant (noun).
Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 10:37 am
So, d0d0ng, what is your “pragmatic solution”?
d0d0ng on Wed, 31st Oct 2007 11:59 pm
So, d0d0ng, what is your “pragmatic solution�
It is not my solution. There must be a good reason why every democratic country in the world had created their own constitution and adhere to it.
Peoples power polarized the nation. Instead of useless people power that created more destabilizations, people should constructively channel their energy of reclaiming the democratic channels of changing the leadership by constitutional means.