Watching a (failed?) inoculation (updated!)
October 11, 2007 by mlq3
Filed under Events Mode
Went to the Bastusang Pambansa to see the action but most of it took place not on the floor, where Romulo Neri was sitting in a panel defending the CHED budget as members of congressmen took turns asking pointed questions to beef up the budgets for their districts. It was a very nerve-wracking three hours for all concerned.
Had a chance to prowl the galleries and the floor and get scuttlebutt from members of the House.
One account of this morning’s meeting at the Palace was that the main bone of contention was the upcoming baranggay elections. Congressmen were very anxious that the polls not be postponed, as it was an opportunity for them to spread goodies around. Demands were supposed to be 50,000 per kagawad or a total of 5 million for each congressman to dole out. The President had given assurances but had even been pursued with calls while she was in China, to assure that the written assurances that the polls would push through, were genuine. The badgering continued this morning, with congressmen supposedly in a foul mood and threatening mischief if the President didn’t do the doling out right there and then.
Another account was simpler, which was a Palace guarantee of 45 35 million per congressman, 25 million in “soft” pork and 10 milion in “hard” pork, whatever that means in congressional terms. In exchange, the congressmen pledged cooperation with the President in terms of pursuing her agenda.
But the figures discussed are impossible to verify (and every congressman could have been lying). The main topic of interest was, what was the Speaker going to do, and what were his options? Opinions among members of the House varied. They ranged from the Speaker had the numbers, to the President had the numbers, to the problem that Friday, it turns out, is a holiday which is why the President wanted matters settled by tonight.
The problem was that the Speaker was not inclined to refer the impeachment complaint prior to the recess. The question then was whether this would precipitate a showdown in the House, and who, exactly, had the numbers; also, there was the very real problem that if the complaint wasn’t referred prior to the break, the October 25 Senate hearing would take place, and if anything ended up revealed in that hearing, the revelations could lead to the complaint being amended and possibly fortified.
The Speaker’s options, as discussed by various sources, ranged from his having pulled a fast one last night by checking himself into the hospital for whatever reason (gastritis, LBM, etc.) and told the House to go on recess early, to his suddenly fainting in his office this afternoon and being rushed from the House in an ambulance, thus causing pandemonium, to the Mace either disappearing or being grabbed by his loyalists, thereby disrupting the session, to someone questioning the quorum, suddenly ending the session. But then the entire budget would have been imperiled.
Or the Speaker could publicly state he would not refer the complaint until the maximum period allowed, November 11.
Or the Speaker could decide that he faced an ethical dilemma, and announce he was inhibiting himself from the whole matter. This was the solution, apparently, put forward by the Palace as a face-saving gesture but involved its own risks. The Speaker’s lawyer, Raul Lambino of Sigaw ng Bayan fame, gave the Speaker similar advice, couched in terms of his right not to participate in forwarding a document obviously aimed more at the Speaker and his son than the President. The Speaker, by taking himself out of the game, would then pass the ball to Deputy Speaker Raul del Mar.
Del Mar could then easily say that it being his call, he would hold the ball until after the recess. Or, del Mar could then send the complaint immediately to the Committee on Rules, which could then sit on it; or the Committee on Rules could instantly send it to the Committee on Justice…
For an hour, from around 3:30 to 4:30Â talk centered on whether the Speaker would take himself out of the game or force a showdown. Then at around that time came word there would be a press conference at the Speaker’s office. Up to that time there were still members of the House proposing that the Speaker should pass the ball to del Mar but that del Mar shouldn’t do the Palace any favors.
Like war, members of the press spend a lot of time just waiting then suddenly heaving into action. By 5 pm the media was huddled outside the door of the Speaker’s office as various congressmen trickled out and basically refused to say anything. Finally the doors opened. Mad stampede as everyone rushed in.
The Speaker looked remarkably calm and relaxed. Arrayed around him were various House members and the Speaker’s people, including Atty. Lambino.
At one point, the Speaker got up and disappeared; call of nature, I asked a reporter? Probably a phone call from the Palace, someone else said.
The Speaker reemerged, the press conference formally began. It played out pretty much as everyone had expected:
De Venecia inhibits self from Arroyo impeach rap; Arroyo impeach case referred to panel; JDV inhibits himself; JDV inhibits self from impeach rap.
I asked a couple of questions, because the Speaker said he was withdrawing from participating in the process, even though he had misgivings because of bribery allegations, etc., etc., but he urged del Mar to attend to his ministerial duty. Del Mar smoothly said he would transmit the complaint to the Committee on Rules. Art Defensor chimed in and said as chairman he was going to calendar the referral before the plenary that very night, for referral, in turn, to the Committee on Justice.
The sending of the paper from Deputy Speaker to Rules Chairman to Justice Committee of course constituting the start of the one-year countdown of the ban on further impeachment complaints.
So my questions focused on asking del Mar why he was rushing to refer the complaint, his answer was, it’s ministerial, and then I asked Defensor if he, as Chairman, could act on behalf of a committee he only chaired but which had more than himself as members; Defensor was offended and said the whole procedure is normally concluded as he said it would be, that he was confident in speaking for the committee, etc.
Questions from the reporters present concentrated on this rush to start the Constitutional countdown while others focused on relations between the Speaker and the President.
But I had to keep asking myself, why is the Speaker, who, depending on whom you asked earlier that afternoon, had been browbeaten by the President, or threatened with being deposed, or otherwise facing a momentous event in his political life, so relaxed, so calm -and what did he have to gain from surrendering to the Palace?
Fine, he actually did the ethical thing, but I have to wonder if his inhibiting himself was the best legal advice. Fine, he gets to keep the Speakership, if the President did have the numbers. He may even think he did the country a favor by heading off the possibility of an impeachment, and the President maybe, owes him another favor.
But what does he have to gain, politically, from caving in like this?
He has to have something up his sleeve, I kept telling myself as I left the press conference.
But I have to figure out what that could be.
Update 7:58 pm and 9:08 pm Got a report that on radio it was pointed out that there’s a problem with what the Speaker did. The Constitution, according to some lawyers (and Rep. Rufus Rodriguez is apparently already raising hell about it on the floor of the House as I write this), does not give the Speaker any discretion.
The Speaker, and only the Speaker, must do the referral. He cannot delegate it, he cannot inhibit himself, it can only be the Speaker and no one else. So goes the argument.
I asked some lawyers and they concur: when the Constitution is clear and specific, and cites no exceptions, then it must be done in the manner and by whom the Constitution says. One lawyer gave a Solomonic answer: is the Speaker the only person who can refer the complaint, and if the Speaker didn’t, is there a justiciable case?
Here are their various answers:
Yes, based on the constitution [article XI. section 3.[2] and the rules of the house on impeachment [section 3. Rule 3.]. But note section 14 [h.] of the Rules of the House. authorizing the speaker to designate a member as tempo presiding officer. after informing the deputy speakers in case he/she temporarily unable to do so.
Yes the supreme court can resolve it. Note Francisco vs. House of Rep case in 2003, supreme court ruled that the power of judicial review includes power of review over justiciable issues in impeachment proceedings.
Yes. Its really a subject of justiciable review, based on Francisco decision. In this case any person may initiate it as a taxpayer suit or have a congressman question it in SC…
I think it is a jusiticable controversy but i doubt referral can be described as defective [cuz] SC will look at the House Rules in addition to the constitution. SC will try to harmonize house rules and charter and i think if they do so, they will rule this referral valid.
Because the constitution does not envision situations where speaker is unable to perform and so SC will take a look at house rules and see if speaker did the right thing. if under house rules, speaker did the right procedure, then SC will rule referral valid.Nature abhors a vacuum, the house rules filled up that vacuum.
Better question is: Can a constitutional duty be delegated? Its like the prez asking somebody to deliver SONA.
But you know justice committee can also order amendment of complaint but that’s a stretch.
So those are the contending views. But if it’s true that a legal wrinkle exists….
It’s a possibility too delicious for words.
JDV: “But Madam President, I did what you told me…”
del Mar: “But Madam, I did what you and the Speaker told me…”
Defensor: “But Madam, I did what you and the Speaker and del Mar told me….”
Everyone’s ass is covered except the one who was supposed to benefit from the inoculation!
More from Uniffors and from Ellen Tordesillas.
Technorati Tags: constitution, House of Representatives, impeachment, philippines, politics, president
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cvj on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 7:32 pm
We cannot rule out Prozac.
MAV on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 8:00 pm
I always expected this “Inoculation” scenario to prevent a more serious impeachment move this year.
But what I find most intriguing is this:What new mega scandal is about to explode that in the panicked minds of the Palace gang could trigger a more serious impeachment move?
Remember that “effective inoculation” is a three-step process:
1. Warn the receiver of the “impending serious attack”.
2. Make a weak attack.(inoculation)
3. Get the receiver to actively defend against the more serious attack.
ramrod on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 8:26 pm
cvj,
Wan shyang hou. I see you’re up to usual haunts, someone’s been missing for quite sometime though.
cvj on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 8:42 pm
Wan Shyang Hau Ramrod. Yeah, she’s probably restocking on her supply of ALL CAPS. A good deal was expended in the previous threads.
Neophyte Observer on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 8:48 pm
I am a newbie, non-pinoy observer of Philippine politics…wondering if someone could get me a quick rundown of what this all means. [I try to keep up with this great blog, but it's hard to jump in and understand without a lot of background].
So the Speaker tried, and possibly failed, in inoculating the President from impeachment by trying to recuse himself, thus allowing an intentionally weak impeachment complaint to go through….?
Is the “ass” left uncovered here GMA’s, and if so why? Simply because JDV’s attempt at caving to Malacañang maybe didn’t work?
What connection does this have to the ethics complaint filed by Pulido against JDV?
And if anyone wants to get into the no doubt complicated issue of why JDV inhibiting himself from forwarding the impeachment documents would mean anything, or be good for GMA, or necessary for JDV…..why would he do that, and why would anyone need him to do that? This must be procedural…I just don’t understand.
Many thanks.
ramrod on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 8:55 pm
Neophyte Observer,
“So the Speaker tried, and possibly failed, in inoculating the President from impeachment by trying to recuse himself, thus allowing an intentionally weak impeachment complaint to go through….?”
I’d say this is a fairly accurate observation. Honestly, I get a headache myself following these skirmishes. I’m just content to watch also, see how this administration fall like a house of cards (or not).
mlq3 on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 8:56 pm
the ethics complaint vs. jdv could have been part of a gambit to lead to such a bloody series of hearings, the president could ask the speaker simply to resign for the good of the country.
the question raised above is a procedural wrinkle and possibly not more than that, but it may have been a procedural wrinkle no one considered and as with the way of all things, end up in court.
or it could have been thought out which makes it a procedural wrinkle that slipped past the palace radar and would be astoundingly brilliant (a less likely scenario).
MAV on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 9:47 pm
“Mrs. Humpty Dumpty sat on the Great Wall.
Mrs.Humpty Dumpty had a great ABCZTEFG fall.
All the queen’s horses and all the queen’s men
Couldn’t put Mrs. Humpty Dumpty together again. ”
Unraveling the fairy tale…
Dr. D. on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 9:57 pm
“…Another account was simpler, which was a Palace guarantee of 45 million per congressman, 25 million in “soft†pork and 10 milion in “hard†pork, whatever that means in congressional terms. In exchange, the congressmen pledged cooperation with the President in terms of pursuing her agenda….”
Hi MLQ3… thanks for going out of your way to get these inside info. You’re doing us Filipinos a big favor by letting us know what’s really going on behind the Palace’s cover-ups. Really appreciate it.
Who knows… after Ricky’s (Carandang), your blog might be the next one quoted in the subsequent Senate hearings.
mlq3 on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 10:21 pm
dr. d. i hope not.
and you made me recheck my math. it’s 35, not 45…. but of course it’s all hearsay, from congressmen no less.
Bencard on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 10:22 pm
another much ado about nothing. gma’s impeachment is an annual past-time of those who are outside looking in. not worthy of any further comment, if i may say so.
pete on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 10:37 pm
mlq3,
At this point, all indications point to an innoculation. Either a win-win with Joe or a head count showed Joe has lost the majority. Either way, one front is secured for GMA. JdV is dis-armed. JdV is at GMA’s mercy regardless if they had a win-win understanding or not.
Remote possibility, but still a possibilty at this point, is that JdV has firm commitment of and full support of majority, takes the gambit and pushes the impeachment to the senate.
Looks like JdV never had a chance against himself.
supremo on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 10:40 pm
This self inflicted crisis has just turned into the Three Stooges slapstick comedy show. Who are Moe, Larry, and Curly in this updated version?
GPS on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 10:41 pm
GMA’s inoculation is good for three years and not just for a year, there will be more Pulidos every year. It is very easy to file an impeachment complaint if it is designed to fail(you just need three pages of paper), while the honest to goodness impeachment complaint which is usually voluminous and carefully studied takes a lot of time to prepare . GMA’s minions will always jump the gun against the opposition. GMA has _____________ the impeachment process.
GPS on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 10:46 pm
Ellen Tordesillas said:
“The scene this afternoon at the House of Representatives was bizarre. Arroyo’s men were rushing to speed up the impeachment process against their boss while the opposition was blocking it. Jesus! Only in the Philippines.”
Yes, only in the Philippines, the only country we have.
manuelbuencamino on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 11:00 pm
Bencard,
“another much ado about nothing. gma’s impeachment is an annual past-time of those who are outside looking in. not worthy of any further comment, if i may say so.”
Naknampucha naman. Two out of the three impeachment complaints were impeachme complaints. What the hell are you talking about “the past-time of those outside looking in?”
Chabeli on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 11:07 pm
Joe de V & Gloria looked at each other & guess who blinked first ? JdV. This is yet another blow to our justice system.
So, what’s next ? People who want to rally peacefully suffer the water canon. We cannot expected anything from our politicans who have been undoubtedly prostituted. We may have the Supreme Court, but it is an equal branch of government & also suffers that risk of being politicised. What else is there left to do ? Support a military junta or stick it out with GMA (who, by the way, has plans to stay beyond 2010) ?????
At the end of the day, we can whine, complain, & bitch all we want, the choice is still left to us make, really. Again, itutuloy pa ba natin ang laban ?, or do we pack up & stick it out with Gloria ?
pete on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 11:32 pm
JdV inhibiting himself is ridiculous; he should have inhibited himself from meeting with GMA at the palace.
GMA says she’s hands off the impeachment complaint then summons the majority coalition to the palace.
manuelbuencamino on Thu, 11th Oct 2007 11:52 pm
pete,
JDV did the right thing. He could not endorse the complaint without incriminating himself since the complaint was more against him than gloria and he couldn’t sit on it either.
As to going to the Palace, it’s also okay because it was a party caucus.
But what I would have preferred was for JDV to have waited until 11 Nov, the last day for referral before taking any action. Gloria would have gone nuts waiting for the shoe to drop!
And it would have been better if at the end he forced a showdown with Gloria.
pete on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:12 am
mb,
But he did not wait till nov 11 and seems he opted out of a showdown. as mlq3 was asking himself, what did JdV gain from his last move?
pete on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:17 am
mb,
seems quite tragic that mr win-win got himself into a loose-loose position when it mattered most for his political survival and when it mattered most for the country. this self-confessed, albeit “benevolent” he claims, trapo could be our chance of getting gloria out of the palace.
supremo on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:34 am
“what did he (JDV) have to gain from surrendering to the Palace?”
Nothing. Let’s accept that JDV is a stooge and GMA is a bully.
BrianB on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:43 am
The pictures illustrate the drama all too well. No need for words.
Above statement not for the irony impaired.
Bencard on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:58 am
maybe it would be easier for those obsessed with impeaching the president to make a template or an impeachment software that they can use every year until 2010. this yearly charade is like “people power”. it has become a ho hum exercise that bores everyone but the masochistic losers that just couldn’t wait for their turn at the helm.
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:37 am
the political epitaph of the speaker will be, i think it’s safe to say, “he was never an asshole, he just wanted to be liked to much.”
the opposite of what his chief executive has learned in her years of office.
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:42 am
bencard, i know we disagree on whom we support but really, what alternative universe have you been observing?
do you need a timeline of the energy and resources that have been spent on this most recent inoculation by the palace??????
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 2:11 am
mav: in answer to your question, one member of the house answered me with one word: “cybered.”
nash on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 2:53 am
“Envelopes containing cash amounting to between P200,000 and P500,000 were handed out to congressmen at the meeting, along with promises of pork barrel amounting to millions of pesos, hours before administration lawmakers took action in the House of Representatives to protect Ms Arroyo from being impeached, several lawmakers present at the meeting told the Philippine Daily Inquirer, parent company of INQUIRER.net.”
HOW IS THIS LEGAL AND HOW DOES THE COMMISSION ON AUDIT JUSTIFY THIS ON THE BUDGET????????
NO SUCCESSFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DISBURSES TAX MONEY IN THIS MANNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 3:44 am
Nash,
That’s called looting the national treasury at will…
ay_naku on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 4:07 am
So another riveting zarzuela seems to have come to an end. Really though, JDV was never a match to the great empress-for-life GMA. (And why has our situation become so ridiculous that the best option for ousting GMA relied on the trapo and dirty hands of JDV?) Some questions:
How to prevent such an an “inoculation” in the future? Should there be changes to the house rules to prevent this moro-moro in the years to come? If so, what changes should be made?
Do the people really still care about all this? Is there even national indignation? (Parang wala yata?) Ba’t parang mas nagalit pa ang pinoy kay Malu Fernandez at sa Desperate Housewives?
How have we managed to continue tolerating the absurdity of it all? Will the nation ever wake up? Or ganito na lang yun palagi? Absurdity is the new reality for pinoys?
Abe N. Margallo on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 5:34 am
To think that to be above the law, Marcos needed to padlock Congress, jail his political opponents, shoot down militant students, bulldoze the Supreme Court, clamp down on the press and ultimately place the country under martial law; Arroyo has only to wear her elevator sandals to achieve similar feat. Quo vadis, Pinoy?
Dirk Pitt on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 5:43 am
maybe it would be easier for Lozano and Pulido to make a template or an impeachment software that they can use every year until 2010. this yearly Lozano/Pulido charade is really a charade . it has become a ho hum exercise that bores everyone but the congressmen that earned so much everytime the stooges get into their act..
watchful eye on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 5:44 am
Remonde said: “The congressmen are not for sale, and for that matter the entire Congress of the Philippines.â€
The Republic of the Philippines is for sale.
(Make offer, text Malacanang)
pete on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 6:07 am
mb,
:”it would have been better if at the end he forced a showdown with Gloria.”
Showdown between a ball-less guy and a heartless fighter?
How could there be a showdown between two protagonists when one is ball-less and the other heartless? The ball-less one runs away from a fight while the heartless one beats up any taker before any chance of a showdown, even beating up a ball-less guy running away from a fight.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 6:23 am
Abe,
How right you are!
Btw, since you’ve shown interest in her elevator sandals, check this:
http://www.manila-bay-watch.blogspot.com/2007/05/shoes-fit-for-moral-midget-queen.html
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 7:31 am
“Remonde said: “The congressmen are not for sale, and for that matter the entire Congress of the Philippines.â€
The Republic of the Philippines is for sale.
(Make offer, text Malacanang)”
Didn’t you know? Its been SOLD already! Its just being resold and resold like a second hand Toyota, or some “night walker” in Quezon Ave by gay pimps.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 7:51 am
Abe Margallo sums up Gloria’s type of governance so well:
“To think that to be above the law, Marcos needed to padlock Congress, jail his political opponents, shoot down militant students, bulldoze the Supreme Court, clamp down on the press and ultimately place the country under martial law; Arroyo has only to wear her elevator sandals to achieve similar feat. Quo vadis, Pinoy?”
And speaking of Gloria’s elevator sandals, check this:
http://www.manila-bay-watch.blogspot.com/2007/05/shoes-fit-for-moral-midget-queen.html
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 8:06 am
“Envelopes containing cash amounting to between P200,000 and P500,000 were handed out to congressmen at the meeting, along with promises of pork barrel amounting to millions of pesos, hours before administration lawmakers took action in the House of Representatives to protect Ms Arroyo from being impeached, several lawmakers present at the meeting told the Philippine Daily Inquirer, parent company of INQUIRER.net.â€
These are properly acknowledged (signed) right, with vouchers and everything? They should have used ATMs, less conspicuous, unless there is no intention of leaving a trail (money trail that is). Now I’m really wondering how these lawmakers define ILLEGAL – a sick bird, no reference to the law whatsoever…
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 8:31 am
Hey, I expected more blogging today since its a holiday!
Bencard on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 8:32 am
mlq3, i know politics is a day-to-day preoccupation in the philippines but must it be the only one? what about nation building, the economy, the environment, peace and order, real education, social services, health, better infrastructure and transportation, etc.?
it seems that everything the sensation-seeking media dishes out is taken as gospel truth. unsubstantiated gossips are disseminated and readily bought by a gullible public who seem to derive aberrant pleasure in demeaning its own government.
the problem of the country is systemic as well as defective body politic. one solution, for instance is the outright abolition of the pork barrel system to be replaced by a more efficient distribution of government funds to benefit the entire country and insulate it from rapacious politicians. this could have been effected through a constitutional amendment or revision, even reconstituting the present republican presidential format of government to a parliamentary one. as usual, ugly politics and a campaign of disinformation by the self-serving media got in the way, thereby perpetuating a bane that has been with us ever since self-government was bestowed upon us by our colonizers.
we need a national enlightenment as badly as we did at the time of jose rizal. meanwhile, we just have to muddle through and feel our way in the darkness until then.
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 8:36 am
mlq3,
question: this practice of doling out pork lard to tongressmen when they exit the pigsty by the pasig river, do they sign receipt of it? [my next question shall proceed after your reply].
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 8:39 am
oops sorry, ramrod above has the same question.
Phil Cruz on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 8:53 am
Joey de Venecia was seen on TV looking quite bitter at what his Dad had done. Where does this leave Joey? Left alone to fend for himself?
Does the chapter end with the father sacrificing his son in a deal with the devil?
Or does it end with the father smiling the smile of a Cheshire cat?
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:12 am
“what about nation building, the economy, the environment, peace and order, real education, social services, health, better infrastructure and transportation, etc.?”-bencard
These issues are already being addressed albeit quietly by non publicity hungry individuals. This apparent obsession with politics I believe is an integral part of Philippine society which is probably one of the main reasons why the country hasn’t decayed in the way Burma has. Before this blog, I have been ignoring Philippine politics and media in a rather cynical way and focused more on humanitarian persuits. But lately, I’m beginning to appreciate the value of the media in our society, particularly “our” society – otherwise politicians or other unscrupulous persons can get away scot free with anything. We have the option to listen, discern, analyze, filter, isolate, integrate, interpret, and synthesize all these information in ways that may be useful in our day to day existence and decision making. Unlike in some countries where they can function with only 50% of the population being involved in political activity because the government is relatively efficient or the private sector is strong enough to satisfy basic needs, the Philippines needs a “hands on” type of management by as many Filipinos as humanly possible. It cannot be done from anywhere else, its needs people in the “trenches” knee deep in mud and grime to further build this country. Although its easy to disassociate ourselves from all this, for me I’m still a big part of this apparent “mess” because I am a Filipino and I wouldn’t give up being one for anything in the world.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:16 am
“As you may know, the Cheshire Cat is a character in Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland. The cat is surreal and mad, a fact which he readily admits. (“We’re all mad here,” he says.) He is also remembered for fading from view before Alice’s eyes. When Alice complained, he proceeded to fade more slowly, leaving his big grin for last. (It has been speculated that this phenomenon came from Carroll’s migraine headaches.)”
A very apt metaphore Phil Cruz…
Dirk Pitt on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:33 am
we need a national enlightenment badly and urgently at this times of jose pidal. meanwhile, we just have to muddle through and feel our way in the darkness until then.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:47 am
Dirk Pitt,
There is national enlightenment already, the voting public sees (and hears) all these “drama” on TV, from the radio, from the local barbero, taxi drivers, tricycle drivers, public markets, office cafeteria, resorts, the internet, and mlq3’s blog. Even the results of the recent senatorial elections show the Filipino electorate is capable of making intelligent decisions. We are not in the dark, we are living our lives “intentionally” making as many right decisions as wrong ones – but we are MAKING THEM BY OURSELVES, as we should be. This in itself should be enough to regain our national pride unless we look at ourselves as smaller than mice that anyone can step on our “pride” and “ego.” We are bigger than life, the political awareness, the protests, the sometimes over active media, etc. are part of our celebration of our freedom…
Dirk Pitt on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:01 am
“Dirk Pitt,
There is national enlightenment already, the voting public sees (and hears) all these “drama†on TV, from the radio, from the local barbero, taxi drivers, tricycle drivers, public markets, office cafeteria, resorts, the internet, and mlq3’s blog. Even the results of the recent senatorial elections show the Filipino electorate is capable of making intelligent decisions. We are not in the dark, we are living our lives “intentionally†making as many right decisions as wrong ones – but we are MAKING THEM BY OURSELVES, as we should be. This in itself should be enough to regain our national pride unless we look at ourselves as smaller than mice that anyone can step on our “pride†and “ego.†We are bigger than life, the political awareness, the protests, the sometimes over active media, etc. are part of our celebration of our freedom…”
ramrod
you might want also to address this to someone else!
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:07 am
“another much ado about nothing. gma’s impeachment is an annual past-time of those who are outside looking in. not worthy of any further comment, if i may say so.”
Well, Bencard, this is your sacrosanct “rule of law” at work, making a complete farce of the rumored democracy in the Philippines.
Manila Bay Watch on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:08 am
Bencard,
Re: “we need a national enlightenment as badly as we did at the time of jose rizal.”
I know you like, nay, adore Gloria but do you honestly believe she is the ‘national enlightenment’ this country needs very badly?
DinaPinoy on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:11 am
Do the people really still care about all this? Is there even national indignation? (Parang wala yata?) Ba’t parang mas nagalit pa ang pinoy kay Malu Fernandez at sa Desperate Housewives?
———————————————-
wala, tameme na lang o dedma sa pinas.
Overseas pinoys ang nag-umpisa kay malou at Desperate Housewives. yun ang pagkakaiba.
DinaPinoy on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:14 am
ramrod :
Dirk Pitt,
There is national enlightenment already, the voting public sees (and hears) all these “drama†on TV, from the radio, from the local barbero, taxi drivers, tricycle drivers, public markets, office cafeteria, resorts, the internet, and mlq3’s blog. Even the results of the recent senatorial elections show the Filipino electorate is capable of making intelligent decisions.
—————————————————-
tama, naiboto ang karamihan sa oposisyon – pero ang tanong, ano na ngayon si cayetano? si villar?
DinaPinoy on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:16 am
inodoro ni emilie :
mlq3,
question: this practice of doling out pork lard to tongressmen when they exit the pigsty by the pasig river, do they sign receipt of it? [my next question shall proceed after your reply].
————————————————–
sa tingin ko, ginaya ito ni gloria kay marcos.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:21 am
“tama, naiboto ang karamihan sa oposisyon – pero ang tanong, ano na ngayon si cayetano? si villar?”
Its just been a few months, lets wait and see, trust the Filipino…It we made mistakes, then so be it, we try again, and again, and again. But please do not insult the Filipino, wherever we are, even if we adopted other nationalities, Filipino blood still runs through our veins…
Abe N. Margallo on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:25 am
This apparent obsession with politics I believe is an integral part of Philippine society which is probably one of the main reasons why the country hasn’t decayed in the way Burma has. ramrod
I agree. A political system stabilized by responsible politics, one where both the governors and the governed abide by the commonly accepted norms for the exercise of power and for reaching electoral or policy decisions, is essential for “nation building, the economy, the environment, peace and order, real education, social services, health, better infrastructure and transportation, etc.†and in general for sustaining the quality of the lives of the people or their very existence.
On the other hand, truth indeed is not mere “unsubstantiated gossips (that) are disseminated and readily bought by a gullible publicâ€; it is, as Justice Holmes said, something you can’t help believing, much like the still unrefuted GMA voice on the Garci tapes and the bribery of certain members of Congress as denounced in the House floor by those stricken by their sense of public duty. Truth or fact, such as the intersection of plutocracy and dirty politics in the Philippines, is also “a coercive experience†that need not be proven in a court of law.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:29 am
The way I see it, some people will opt for legal means and rightly so. But what if the “powers that be” are the ones perpetuating wholesale plunder, murder, and deception? Hiding behind the law they rationalize everything they do as constitutional. This brings to mind one of the greatest minds of all time, inspiring even greater minds like Mohandas Gandhi, Leo Tolstoy, and Martin Luther King Jr. (Civil Disobedience)
HENRY DAVID THOREAU
“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, to discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practice resignation, unless it was quite necessary. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms, and, if it proved to be mean, why then to get the whole and genuine meanness of it, and publish its meanness to the world; or if it were sublime, to know it by experience, and to be able to give a true account of it.”
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:33 am
Ramrod (at 9:12am), very well said. In that comment, you’ve stated very well why the ‘Singapore model’ (i.e. an elite vanguard model) cannot be for us and why all the noise that others complain about is really not just noise. For now, resistance may be futile, but it is nevertheless necessary. If only we can take it to the next level and not treat 2010 as some sort of line in the sand. By then, the current powers would have had three years to prepare.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:38 am
DinaPinoy,
I hope your name is just that, a name, not a statement. I didn’t even vote for Cayetano and Villar, even Escudero and most of the opposition senators actually, I voted for the other guy Mike Defensor, unfortunately he lost. Millions of people made their decisions, I don’t think a country with 97% literacy rate (it can be more) are that stupid or gullible. Of course no one can stop you from saying so, enjoy your freedom to do so, thats the beauty of living in the Philippines…
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:40 am
Just like most Filipinos ,I am quite jaded about all the the corrupt antics of the Palace gang.She knows everybody has a “price”!
My only consolation is that in the “long continuum of time”,
Gloria,Mike,Ronnie Puno,Ermita,Mr.Esperon and the rest of the “CYBERed” gang will just be a sad episode in the history of our country.
I pity their descendants.Karma.
renmin on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:50 am
“Hard” pork – for infrastructure projects
“Soft” pork – for dole-outs (scholarships, medical assistance etc.)
“Hard” and “soft,” like porn.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:55 am
cvj,
I am learning by the minute here, this blog may have educated me about the Philippines more than any textbooks, history, and political science teachers. Earlier my views on politics have been very vague indeed one that was tainted with “messianic complex biases of my youth” and “bottomline determinism” of my career. I learned that it is best to open my mind more, and see each and everyone’s point of view first before coming up with my own, an eclectic approach if you may. But you’re right, three years is enough to build strong fortifications and entrench oneselves.
For me, I’m consciously looking for potential leaders who have the following agenda:
1. “Eliminating the rule of the Oligarch” and implementing a genuine land reform.
2. Adopt a “managerial” yet nationalistic leadership style.
3. Industrial Reforms, to finally lead the country to graduate to producing real finished products (technology) rather than remain as an assembly area of specific components.
Of course I borrowed much of these from other bloggers (you included). From here I hope to come up with a list of names…
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:57 am
“My only consolation is that in the “long continuum of timeâ€,
Gloria,Mike,Ronnie Puno,Ermita,Mr.Esperon and the rest of the “CYBERed†gang will just be a sad episode in the history of our country.” – Mav
My sentiments exactly, life will go on, it won’t stop with them. If we’re lucky we can see how history will judge these people.
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:07 am
They can’t take it with them!
hvrds on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:20 am
“what about nation building, the economy, the environment, peace and order, real education, social services, health, better infrastructure and transportation, etc.?”
We are all at different levels of functional illiteracy and that is why debating with people who obviously are on a different wave length is a waste of time. The economy is the basis for everything else. Nation building and the rest of the items mentioned above all arise out of the economy.
The issue being fought over between JDV Jr. and GMA is a fight over Congressional pork and Executive pork. Booty capitalism is the new term. The left call it bureaucratic capitalism. Others simply call it crony capitalism.
In past governments the BIR and BOC were the milking cows. The reason behind the imposition of fiat currency or legal tender was to give states a medium by which to fund the administration of a state through (Taxes)
Regalian doctrine in the past wherein the King owned all the lands in the state or principality and the harvest belonged to him and it was he who divided it. He in turn guaranteed the peace and stability of the place.
Hence Big Mike and GMA like Ferdinand and Imelda before them believe that it is they who decide on the division of the spoils of power.
The legislature gets theirs from the budget while the executive get theirs from executive fiat to direct line agencies and GOCC’s in their own off budget transactions.
Example – the BSP only has been capitalized at Php 10B. However it has in its reserves over $30B. Where did these assets come from? Simple- From the full faith and credit of the Republic…Future taxes…………..It created money in exchange.
A country can continuously kite its debt into the future.
The country with the largest public debt on its records as of today is Japan in relation to its economy is Japan.. The Philippines stands as one of the top five to ten countries in the same boat.
That is the magic of the technology of a monetary system.
Creating assets out of nothing.
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:25 am
inodoro, i don’t know, personally and no legislator has ever told me how they actually get their monies. i understand there is a lot that isgiven and received with no requirement for liquidation and that the habit is perfectly legal in such cases, for such funds.
my hunch is, receipts would only be demanded as evidence for future extortion, after the quintero expose during the 1971 concon.
pete on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:35 am
Bencard is right we must focus on development, economy, education, social welfare, healthcare, infrastructure, transportation.
But if Bencard’s vision from afar is applied to our real-life experience here we start with recognizing that Gloria is the biggest obstacle for us to move on and develop in a way that is good for Filipinos, not just for a few, not just for foreigners but for every one specially the poor, which is the OPPOSITE of what Gloria is doing.
That is why, much as we would really prefer to spend more time on other more enjoyable things, we are pre-occupied and so anxious about what you might call politics. In fact, the damages to our instituions which mlq3 had cited, the issues of patrimony and sovereignty make our concern about GMA not just about politics any more. We, who are here, feel deep in out guts that if we allow GMA to do as she will, unchecked, we would soon be down to the bottom line — our survival as a nation and the simple survival of millions of Filipinos. You know how many Filipinos work overseas just so their families can have something to eat?
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:55 am
“The country with the largest public debt on its records as of today is Japan in relation to its economy is Japan.. The Philippines stands as one of the top five to ten countries in the same boat.” – hrvds
I have to agree with you here. We are probably bigger fools if we tolerate leaders who perpetually put our finances in the “red.” If we dread the impact of financial mismanagement in our companies and its ultimate end – bankruptcy and closure, what more with our country and the future of our children?
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:00 pm
ang lakas mag reklamo ng oposisyon tungkol sa umanong “depektibong” impeachment complaint, eh amp pala sila eh. taon-taon expected na tong mangyari pero hanggang ngayon eh pinapabayaan pa rin nilang maunahan sila ng administrasyon. sino kaya ang tanga? oposisyon ba? o ang tao na naniniwala pa rin ngayon na may oposisyon? maybe everyone in government is in this charade. at tayo ang niloloko.
di ko kasi lubos maisip na ganito kabobo ang oposisyon. na palagi na lang naiisahan ng Malacanang. kaya ang tanging iba pang rason ay: di sila bobo. nagbobobo-bobohan lang.
3 beses ba naman maulit ang filing na ito, why have no one bothered to file a stronger impeachment complaint then? sabi nga: fool me once, shame on you… (eh ilang beses na ba sila nagpauto?)
so, can we still trust anyone?
pete on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:03 pm
mlq3,
Many may have sunk so low as to even hope that old trapos will save us from a super trapo.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:10 pm
hrvds,
I our business, GDP per capita __Usd is always considered as it is proportional to that particular country’s estimated consumption of our product/s. If you take the Philippine GDP per capita 2007 (Wikepedia) of 5,682.17Usd as this is supposed to be taken from the GDP divided by the population, is it safe to say that theoretically, each person has 5,682.12Usd/year to spend if spread out evenly among the population? Or 21,307.95Php per month? Correct me if I’m wrong I’m just a glorified salesman.
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:11 pm
pete, the president is not a trapo. the speaker is. and i’ll remind you of a long-ago case where the most trapo of them all, senate president amang rodriguez, managed to delay ferdinand marcos’s getting to be the senate president, and marcos was not a trapo. he was a dictator in the making.
the president has gone beyond traditional politics, there is nothing traditional in how she wields power, this is why you will hear her opponents who are traditional politicians perpetually shocked and frustrated: a traditional mind simply cannot comprehend people who break every written and unwritten rule, because traditionalists find comfort in tradition. certain things are allowed, certain things are not.
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:14 pm
devils,
“so, can we still trust anyone?”
i don’t trust politicians to do the work for me. but that doesn’t mean we have lost the fight. the choice remains relevant: truth or consequence.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:16 pm
pete, a quote for you
“Man, you know politics are bad when you would prefer a known mobster in power rather than the current group because it would decrease the body count and increase respectability.”
and it’s a sign of the times when we’re asking JDV to save us. pathetic.
BrianB on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:20 pm
“we need a national enlightenment as badly as we did at the time of jose rizal. meanwhile, we just have to muddle through and feel our way in the darkness until then.”
Obviously, we do that, muddle through. It’s unfair to say Filipinos are preoccupied with politics. Most aren’t. The media makes a lot of noise about it, but it only sounds like noise because there are a lot of misinformed and uninformed people. The politicians think it’s noise because it produces a an interference to their tunnel-like frame of thought.
I read at least a couple hundred pages of words a day. These words do not sound like noise, because I understand them. Information is constant; some people think constantly. We have too many politicians and too many people who believe that politics is everything, but we are lacking in political participants. We cannot block politics from daily life, and we shouldn’t. What you are so jaded about, Bencard is not the noise of politics but the lack of follow through in real life. That is, what irritates you is the lack of continuity from the media to what is really happening in the streets.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:25 pm
INE, my questions remain.
who can file impeachment complaints? and why does it seem only characters of doubtful affiliations seem to be filing them? so many want to impeach Gloria, yet why isn’t anyone doing the hard work of actually impeaching her? you think by now we would’ve seen a substantive impeachment complaint agst her considering the amt of time they’ve had to pile up all those evidences agst her. yet time and again, we witness lawyers like Lozano and Pulido being allowed by the opposition to subvert the system. siguro yung mga nababayaran lang ang ginaganahan mag file ng impeachment. nakakatamad naman nga kung pro bono trabaho.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:27 pm
The actions of our current political leadership set-up will allow us (people who vote and pay taxes) to see who these people really are. The way the senators and congressmen weave in and out of this drama, we can actually see through all the “campaign hype” that they do during elections and see their “real” motives or their degree of “commitment” and even “competence.” The people can judge for themselves already…
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:30 pm
Devils, i don’t think we really can trust our representatives in the sense that they will do right if we leave them alone. Within the Representative framework, this calls for more public pressure (via public opinion & media). A healthy public sphere is what we lost when Civil Society joined government after EDSA Dos. Those left outside government largely turned to local/community concerns (GK etc.). The more radical solution would be to implement Direct Democracy (e.g. your government by wikipedia approach) to eventually do away with these representatives but that won’t come so soon.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:45 pm
cvj, the problem is that we expend too much energy trying to compel these so-called “representatives” to actually “represent” us (instead of themselves) instead of just punishing them directly by not putting them back ever again. you can’t expect the people to show massive protests everytime. fact is, may sarili ring buhay na pino-problema ang bawat isa, and it’s tiring enough to be required to always watch over our “representatives” in govt. democracy is participative governing nga. pero how much power is really given to citizens in our system? there should be a vote of no confidence choice in our ballots. we don’t like any of the candidates, we choose a vote of no confidence. no one wins.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:49 pm
also, there is the problem of logistics. if it were up to me, plebiscites would be done anytime the citizens wanted to. all officials could be removed by just voting. no more of that impeachment crap. let the voters decide. after all, they were the ones who voted that person into office anyway. so let them un-vote him.
pete on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:54 pm
mlq3,
:”I believe the President has done great harm to all our institutions. I am personally convinced she will find every means to stay in power; her minimum political objective would be to find a successor who will protect her, but who can she trust?”
:”the president has gone beyond traditional politics, there is nothing traditional in how she wields power, this is why you will hear her opponents who are traditional politicians perpetually shocked and frustrated”
So, even traditional politics itself, as an institution, is not spared from the wrath of GMA-the-destroyer-of-institutions.
You know what, I had thought of asking you when you mentioned that the president had done great harm to all our institutions, what of all our institutions is the most important of all that she had done the greatest harm to?
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:55 pm
devils, what you have at work is the law of unintended consequences. impeachment is the instrument of last resort, constitutionally, to oust an elected leader or high constitutional officer. the only other option is people power or armed revolt.
in the past, it was supposed to be such an extreme option that it would take a really despised leader to fuflill the requirements necessary to impeach that leader. usually, at least 2/3 of the house to formally file charges and then a similar proportion in the senate to convict.
the framers of the 1987 constitution decided to make it very much easier to do, instead of an overwhelming majority, a strong minority is required. when the supreme court found its chief facing impeachment, it specified an interpretation that opened up the mischief we’ve been seeing these past years.
but the way impeachment’s being used, by its potential targets, i think was never conceived as even thinkable by the framers of the constitution.
personally, i’m all for plebiscatory democracy and always have.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 12:57 pm
my wish list for 2010: that ordinary citizens contest every elective position in government by running agst TRAPOS themselves or supporting non-TRAPOS.
my challenge to Ang Kapatiran is to fill up your slate so that there will be no uncontested seat in local or natl govt.
my challenge to all is not to vote for anyone who has ever held office in the past. they’ve all shown their incapacity. don’t put them back agn. the new vogue in town should be: let’s give others the chance to screw us instead of the same old faces screwing us time and again.
wag nating maliitin ang kakayahin nating maka tsamba ng isang huwarang opisyal. kahit isa lang, malaki na ang ganansya nito.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:00 pm
DevilsAdvc8,
Systematic assasination would be more cost efficient and result oriented. Unfortunately we can’t take that route, we can only continue to be vigilant, and in our own ways effect small changes hoping that an accumulation thereof will snowball into bigger ones.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:03 pm
Manolo, what specific interpretation did the SC cited? and again, unintended consequences.
“but the way impeachment’s being used, by its potential targets, i think was never conceived as even thinkable by the framers of the constitution.”
i think they did. why else insert a provision for a one-year ban?
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:06 pm
ramrod, how does that systemic assassination work?
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:08 pm
Devils, i think people power can be likened to one of Newton’s equations i.e. force = mass x acceleration (in a given direction). either you have few people expending a great amount of effort or many people expending a little effort each. During EDSA and EDSA Dos, i did not feel tired at all because there were many people doing the same thing. The problem now is that most chose to just grin and bear the situation while those who choose to protest, like the Black and White Movement, are ridiculed by otherwise decent folks. This mindset has to change and from this, we can learn from the French. If more people react, then the effort required per person will be less or at least, it would be less frustrating.
(Regarding your ‘vote of no confidence’, there’s a related proposal by blogger ‘DemosthenesGame’ i.e. ‘Net Approval Voting’ who is on the other side of the political fence. Maybe you can check his blog out. )
Aside from having too little ‘mass’, there is also the problem of basic conflict between EDSA Dos and EDSA Tres which prevents us from taking a common direction. Since Erap and most especially EDSA Tres, the upper and middle classes have made a compromise that accommodates Gloria to prevent the reemergence of populist passions that would threaten their way of life. So even if Gloria clearly cheated in 2004, many otherwise decent folks didn’t mind. That’s why i believe there should be a genuine dialogue between the sectors represented by EDSA Dos and EDSA Tres, but at this point, all i see are resentments thrown past each other.
pete on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:12 pm
devils, ramrod,
Much a as I would love to indulge myself in wishful thinking I would rather that we refrain from this line of talk as some ears could magnify the exchange out of proportion, mlq3’s blog is not out of their frame of target.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:15 pm
“ramrod, how does that systemic assassination work?”
Totally wiping out the “trapos” starting with the most influential ones, then work down to those with lesser impact politically. This way, they can be removed from the equation permanently, direct influence and indirect altogether. But that was just just foolish talk, don’t take it seriously. You scare me sometimes, and I’m in the firing range every weekend.:)
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:16 pm
pete,
I’m sorry, as I said it was foolish talk. Never again…
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:21 pm
Devils, on the problem of logistics, that’s where a National ID system with internet voting can help so plebiscites can be conducted more frequently on more issues.
Regarding Ang Kapatiran, i also lean towards them, but what makes us think that they won’t turn out like Gloria, who was after all, brought to power by Civil Society on promise of moral reforms? These people like Joker Arroyo and Raul Gonzalez were once heroes. Look at them now.
That’s also why i don’t think assasination would help because the raw material for people like them is the Filipino people themselves and the factory that produces them is our entire society. Once they are convicted, we need to turn over Mike and Gloria Arroyo to medical science to understand and dissect their underlying pathology.
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:24 pm
devils, red’s herring, who is a lawyer, explains what i mean:
http://redsherring.blogspot.com/2007/10/francisco-father-of-lozano-and-pulido.html
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:24 pm
“That’s why i believe there should be a genuine dialogue between the sectors represented by EDSA Dos and EDSA Tres, but at this point, all i see are resentments thrown past each other.”- cvj
I agree. I admit a part of me is still conflicted regarding these two events. Before reading all the comments here I really believed EDSA 2 was justifiable and EDSA 3 was an untrollable mob of misled people. Now I believe we can learn some lessons even from the latter.
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:41 pm
“the only other option is people power or armed revolt.”
not quite the “only other option” manolo.
whatever happened to the filino’s sense of delikadeza? when will we ever get a leader who will have the greater sense of decency to step down because s/he has caused too much division? that i my book would be an act of heroism. but even more heroic would be seeing him/her take his own life. that to me is matyrdom. [in the event, i promise to bombard the vatican daily petitions to declare her a saint. hmm, santa gloria nang makabalaghang balota?]
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 1:56 pm
tnx for the link Manolo. that was great explanation by Abe.
ramrod, don’t be so scared. my extreme views are just the manifestation of repressed emotions by the silent majority.
cvj, his name alone means a lot to me already. perhaps i should change my nick to Locke and engage debates with Demosthenes? that should complete the Ender’s Game he’s trying to practice.
and being on the other side of the political fence, you may have noticed i’m not exactly innocent of staying on one side permanently. i have my bouts of schizophrenia as well.
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 2:02 pm
Devils, yes a debate with Demosthenesgame would be good unfortunately his site does not allow comments. I had to google Ender’s Game. Sounds like a more intelligent version of Starship Troopers.
mlq3 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 2:02 pm
indoro, the problem with delicadeza is that it’s an informal code, it’s like being sad that chivalry is dead. it’s the same observation some historians have made about the rise of agrarian revolt in central luzon, etc. in the old days, the relationship between landlords and peasants was built on mutual obligations, which in its ideal sense, is what feudalism is supposed to uphold. agrarian unrest in luzon, for example, began to erupt when landlords abandoned those feelings of obligation while the peasants insisted on them; part of it was a change in thinking of course (you see the same dynamics in companies that used to be run in a paternal manner then the shock and confrontations that ensue when the old paternalist generation suddenly passes from the scene, and either labor or management suddenly engage in wanting to modernize things).
delicadeza is a cultural norm; but it is norm that belongs to a culture that’s long gone, if it ever existed. and being an unwritten code, its enforcement depends on everyone concerned adhering to it.
the replacement for delicadeza is the anti corrupt practices act, etc. and in the debates in this blog on how to apply the law on plunder for example, we’ve also seen the clash of traditional attitudes and modern aspirations.
i came to understand this clash and the problem you’ve pointed out by reading this editorial a long time ago:
http://philippinesfreepress.wordpress.com/2006/03/11/politics-means-and-end-august-29-1953/
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 2:04 pm
i’m reading his blog right now. yay! brownie points for me for knowing the source of his nick.
*offers my hand to play the game*
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 2:14 pm
Codes are all about distinctions that Society makes. Gloria Arroyo’s era is largely about breaking or subverting codes within each of society’s subsystems. In healthier societies, ‘ethics’ (i.e. the informal code) within each subsystem is supposed to prevent this from happening. The failure of ethics to perform this function means that the door is open for Morality (which is a code independent and even alien to each subsystem as a virus is alien to a cell) to come back with a vengeance.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 2:23 pm
cvj, commenting on his blog is not needed. in fact, it’s imperative that no connection at all should be drawn between you two. The Locke and Demosthenes exchange is actually just a subplot in the book. but it foresaw a time wherein online exchanges form citizen’s opinion, and where bloggers are part of politics’ movers and shakers.
Demosthenes was the Wiggin sibling’s strawman online character, while Locke was made out as the wiser of the two. you can characterize Locke’s writing as liberal and Demosthenes’ as conservative. part of what makes this collusion works is that Valentine (who’s a liberal) writes Demosthenes’ columns while Peter (a neo con at heart) writes Locke’s.
inodoro ni emilie on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 3:01 pm
on the difficulty to resolve bolante’s coorrrruppppptiooooonnnn charges:
“Collecting the evidence is not as simple as what they think. In this case, 13 regions are involved,” Gutierrez explained.” -pdi, 12 oct
why, is this an all-or-nothing regional evidence gathering case? para din palang si lord voldermort itong si bolante, who planted his horcruxes in 13 different places.
not simple, or no will?
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 3:02 pm
Devils, sounds like the book’s interesting enough to break my practice of not reading fiction.
DevilsAdvc8 on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 4:10 pm
cvj, much of what passes for good fiction is in reality, just a mirror of the real world. Science Fiction can be categorized as large scale models of geopolitics set in a fictional world. Read this classics: The Moon is A Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein (anarchism and how to precipitate one), The Dispossessed (another form of anarchism) by Ursula Le Guin, Moving Mars (what pre-emptive war would look like if Bush had a giant death ray) by Greg Bear and you’ll realize how much SF in general is not about science, but about human politics, usually predating present events by decades or centuries. it’s not a crystal ball you can gaze at for fortune telling, but SF is a kind of story-telling following the logical course of events into different possible ends.
Fantasy on the other hand, characterizes personal struggles. It depicts on a grand scale battles bet good and evil. Even while it narrates the hero or heroine’s struggle with themselves. Its message and moral are timeless, the conflicts oftentimes just the same. Age old questions which humanity struggles with each generations are tackled.
Fantasy is heavy on character development, while SF is world-building on a galaxy scale.
you should read up on fiction, much the same as I am reading up on my non-fiction. you’ll be surprised at how much you can learn, reading all kinds of genre of literature.
Tililing on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 4:24 pm
“Devils, sounds like the book’s interesting enough to break my practice of not reading fiction.” cvj
what types of literature are you fond of?
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 4:37 pm
It’s going to take strong stands to overcome the manufactured distractions and distortions.But for so long as the GMA spin doctors and a compliant media keep bringing up more spins,we need to do more to neutralize the power of their spins.
nash on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 5:10 pm
Maybe if it was Teri Hatcher who handed out the enveloped bribes to our congressman then someone will be so indignant as to start a petition?
Hmm, I know a couple of BBC producers, I must have them around for tea so we can incorporate this new joke about Filipino congressman being bribed….
Uy, si Malu Fernandez, may bagong column…..
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 5:20 pm
Devils, thanks for the explanation and the reading recommendations. I realized some years back that if i only read fiction in my younger years, i would have acted smarter in certain situations.
Tililing, i don’t read literature, although i know that i should.
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 5:57 pm
“I have sat at the sumptuous tables of power, but I have not run away with the silverware.”
Diosdado Macapagal
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 6:05 pm
“I have sat at the sumptuous tables of power, but I have not run away with the silverware.â€
Diosdado Macapagal
Its hard to believe the guy is related to this “damsel who distresses us.”
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 6:10 pm
cvj, devils,
Oftentimes science fiction is a glimpse of future realities, there’s an older generation – Jules Verne
http://www.jules-verne.co.uk/
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 6:38 pm
“There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust.” Demosthenes
Chabeli on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 6:50 pm
To the 189 or so TONGressmen/women in the Bastusan Pambansa, here’s to you, a novelty song written by Bob Merrill in 1952:
How much is that doggie in the window? (arf! arf!)
The one with the waggley tail
How much is that doggie in the window? (arf! arf!)
I do hope that doggie’s for sale
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 6:51 pm
JDV’s withdrawal from the bakuna exposed it as the frace that it is. Recall that he transmitted the Lozano complaint.
I think lumaban naman si JDV. Pero natalo siya. That meeting in Malacanang showed him who had the numbers.
If he had gone down fighting can you imagine how easy the Palace could have spinned it so that the whole ZTE mess would fall on his and Joey’s head instead of Gloria’s and Mike’s?
Gloria’s minions in the House would have overthrown him claiming that he did not want to refer the impeachme because he wanted to cover up his and his son’s wrongdoings. The focus would have shifted to him.
By taking himself out of the picture, Gloria remains in center frame. Look at today’s headlines. It’s all about the bribes to congressmen.
The delicadeza card was the only card he could play. It was not an ace, not even a face card, but look at the trouble it’s causing Gloria.
First, there’s a question whether Del Mar’s referral was allowed by law.
Second, if the opposition boycotts the sham impeachment, Gloria’s minions will be forced to jerk each other off in front of TV cameras.
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 7:04 pm
“By taking himself out of the picture, Gloria remains in center frame. Look at today’s headlines. It’s all about the bribes to congressmen.manuel buencamino
connections….
Jarius exposes on ZTE deals…
Cong.Padilla names Abalos as the “comelec official” in the ZTE deal…
Joey De Venecia out in the open on the gory details of the ZTE scandal…
Neri implicates Abalos…
Abalos resigns….
Pro Bono now Pro Bonus Lawyer files “inoculation” case…
Cong.Beltran exposed brrbery attempt by Kampi Deputy Sec.General
Ronnie Puno fires Ver and washes his hands…
GMA calls 190 congressman for “consultations on how to rush “inoculation” move
today’s headlines :”P500k bribery” for congressmen…
The dots keep getting connected…..All started from an expose of a brave journalist!
Do you want to guess how the dots will be further connected…?
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 7:37 pm
“Hard†and “soft,†like porn; same old faces screwing us;
jerk each other off in front of TV cameras
Hey, I notice there’s a predominance of repressed sexual energy here.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 7:53 pm
“Do you want to guess how the dots will be further connected…?” – Mav
Mav, it is my suspicion that the “dots” or “money trail” will lead to powers that are outside the political arena already, in the quiet realms of the “king makers.”
Bencard on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 8:55 pm
consider the second-hand sources of this alleged bribery, guys. rolex suplico (how can anyone trust a guy named after a watch), and the spurned influence peddler named joey. i can’t believe the “fearless” media is having a feeding frenzy over this hearsay over hearsay speculation. such is the kind of (dis)information you get from this over-rated institution. and see how you guys react? you read so much to it, you’re so gullible. that’s why you always have eggs on your face. this is a continuing pattern – someone will start a wild rumor, the irresponsible media will jump on it, the public will swallow it, hook, line and sinker, then demand for the president’s head.
btw, mlq3, when asked to specify the institutions you alleged to have been “destroyed” by president arroyo, you can do no better than cite the impeachment process and people’s power. how so? by thrice beating the impeachment attempts, and by thwarting the spurious, copy cat edsa protests one after the other?
rego on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:04 pm
“maybe it would be easier for those obsessed with impeaching the president to make a template or an impeachment software that they can use every year until 2010.”
Now this is where we differ bencard!
I would like to see Gloria impeached. I dont mind if she spend the rest of her term defending herself in the impeachment court.I dont even want her to resign becuase that would cover up a lot of issues. And trying her of plunder in sandigan bayan would take very long and has no media coverage. I want her to defend herself in full view of the people.
I know, I know she has some achievement and hardworking but there were so many issues against her and that must be settled before her term ends.
As for the congress, eventually they will ran out of albi not to transmit the impeachment to the senate. tatablan din yan.
Bencard on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:16 pm
rego, that’s fine. but the key word is “defend”. gma has a RIGHT to defend herself. that’s part of due process. and if she prevails, that is also a part of it. you don’t expect her to provide the evidence against herself, do you? the accusers should do the work. “put up or shut up”, isn’t that what we always say? if they don’t have the numbers, they lose, and that also is part of due process.
Tililing on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:44 pm
“Oftentimes science fiction is a glimpse of future realities, there’s an older generation – Jules Verne
http://www.jules-verne.co.uk/” ramrod
classic novels in particular would encompass timeless plots, themes, and situations. i’ve read three books by verne, the more famous ones, around the world in 80 days and 20,000 leagues under the sea. was more into the works of dumas, shakespeare, cervantes, hugo, wells (also of classic sci-fi fame). most if not a good portion of present day stories are based from these timeless pieces. (well, that’s why they are called classics in the first place).
Tililing on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:47 pm
“rego, that’s fine. but the key word is “defendâ€. gma has a RIGHT to defend herself. that’s part of due process. and if she prevails, that is also a part of it. you don’t expect her to provide the evidence against herself, do you? the accusers should do the work. “put up or shut upâ€, isn’t that what we always say? if they don’t have the numbers, they lose, and that also is part of due process.” beancard
100% agree. i remember a court case wherein the lawyer of the plaintiff was complaining to the judge why the defendants won’t give them a copy of an original document. who in his right mind would put his/her head in the chopping board? the burden of proof always lie in the accuser not the accusee. it’s as simple as that.
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 9:56 pm
MLQ3:
What was the the rationale for the attempt to bribe Cong.Beltran to sponsor the “inoculation move” when they had the “numbers” anyway?
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:04 pm
For Guinness World Records:
The most expensive inoculation shot in history:P94.5million
anti-impeachment shot for GMA!
computation:195 congressmen x P500,000 per congressman.
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:20 pm
Oh, sure, Bencard, GMA has the right to defend herself, by buying off congressmen using the people’s money. Part of your rule of law. After all, it’s just a numbers game. The one who buys the most numbers wins. Cebu Rep. Cuenco has admitted in a radio interview that he received P200,000 during breakfast at Malacanang. To people without any sense of right or wrong, this is par for the course. The legal trumps the moral.
Rego, congratulations! Finally, you’ve realized that GMA must be impeached and that she must make an accounting of herself “in full view of the people”. Do I see here a Saul on his way to Damascus?
Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:25 pm
MAV, I think the rationale was to lead the dog off the scent. Had Beltran endorsed the impeachment complaint, who would believe it would lead all the way to Malacanang?
manuelbuencamino on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 10:48 pm
Bencard,
One legitimate attempt and two fake ones.
First fake was filed by Oliver Lozano and endorsed by Marcoleta.
Second fake was filed by Oliver Pulido and emdorsed by Marcoleta San Luis.
As Ellen Tordesillas asked, why are the pro Gloria congressmen in such a rush to file the Pulido’s impeachment while the opposition is opposing it?
Defense is okay. But you’re a lawyer and you should know that even lawyers are bound by ethics.
And surely a FAKE impeachment complaint, a bakuna or a pre-emptive strike against a real impeachment complaint, is something that only dirt bag jail house lawyers would countenance.
Don’t you agree, Mr. counselor?
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:15 pm
I was a GMA supporter even before EDSA 2, she looked decent, intelligent, and hardworking, the complete opposite of Erap. For me she was the “managerial” type of president, not a trapo, that I believed the country really needed and was long overdue. Impressions based on paper and television have a tendency to be misleading I suppose, because the events that unraveled from the time she was seated up to now proved to be otherwise.
Just tonight as I was buying something from a sidewalk vendor, I happened to read the newspaper that was used as wrapper, a Bandera actually dated October 10, 2007, the article was entitled “CoA uncovers P329M idle books, supplies.” Some P329 milliion worth of textbooks, information and communication technology products, computers and instructional materials were found idle around the offices of school officials or in stockrooms.
This brought to mind my own encounter although indirectly with GMA’s unique way of disbursing funds. A couple of years ago before I decided to become an OFW, I handled the sales group of the commercial printing arm of FEP (which is the company printing the Inquirer). I was called for a meeting by people who had a big project – books/textbooks for the government. I met them, about 7 to 8 people in Starbucks Shangrila (the mall across the hotel) and they introduced themselves, that they were from the office of the president and they had a budget of P200million for public school books. The guy who I suppose was their supervisor or probably the highest ranking explained to me that they were going to use “discretionary funds” and that the transaction will be in cash, no receipts. What was strange to me was that they wanted a 60% mark-up, meaning the cost of the project was really 40% of P200million, the 60% was for them. They even encouraged me to see if we have old textbook stocks on hand so it would be easier. All they knew was that I was from Lexmedia a printer for several publishers, bookd, magazines, etc., so I decided to do a more complete company presentation. When I mentioned that the company was owned by the same owners of The Daily Inquirer, the mood suddenly changed, they were not as forthcoming as they were when we started, even saying “don’t say anything about what we talked about to your boss” adding we could disappear because of this. I told my boss of course and we never pursued the poject. But sometimes that encounter haunts me, did they really not know I was with a sister company of Inquirer or they knew and thought maybe I would mention it to my bosses and the paper will pursue this story and discredit GMA? I will never know for sure…
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:28 pm
I believe that our founding fathers were not pretentious and pompous hypocrites to believe that the constitution they established was PERFECT. Thats why there are provisions for amendments, because they probably thought that along the way we will encounter situations wherein the current laws were not relevant or applicable anymore.
The RULE OF LAW to me is like a sword,it can be wielded justly or unjustly depending on who wields it. If human civilization adhered perfectly to the RULE OF LAW, there would not have been a MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., or a GANDHI, champions of CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.
Bencard on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:29 pm
shaman, how do you know that what cuenco received was ordinary “pork barrel” alloted for his district anyway. question for you. does congressional allocation (aka pork barrel) go directly to congressman’s pocket for his own personal use? i said a few posts ago, the problem is systemic. there has to be a better way to distribute funds to localities – one that is insulated from wild speculations of wrongdoing spread by the media and ingested by its “gullible”, push-over readers. had you, and people like you, not blindly opposed constitutional amendment initiatives and proposals, we could have addressed these perennial problems once and for all. but no, you were so petrified with fear of gma’s speculated retention of power beyond 2010 – another bogey man created by the “fearless” media.
another question: why would there be a necessity to bribe congressmen so the latter could reject an admittedly sterile impeachment complaint that has already been pronounced “dead on arrival”? you may think gma is that stupid but i think you are wrong.
buencamino, there’s nothing unethical about defending oneself, or for a lawyer – his client, under the rule of law and jurisprudence. btw, there were two complaints that were legally found “insufficient in form and substance”. one is still awaiting official verdict.
Mike on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:30 pm
In the game of Political Survivor, guess who just got voted off the island.
It’s so pathetic. JdV had a chance to become a hero and now he finds himself totally outplayed and disarmed. I don’t understand how a savvy operator like Joe could have not seen that his only hold over GMA was the threat of impeachment. Naturally, she would try to neutralize it.
That’s it, game over. Voldemort wins.
Levi on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:34 pm
Bencard:if they don’t have the numbers, they lose, and that also is part of due process.
This is ok if the honorable congressmen were debating on say, to impose Value Added Tax or not. To use their numbers to cover up a wrong doing by the highest official is not democracy, it is plain and simple tyranny.
cvj on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:39 pm
Shaman, i remember Rego has been consistent in wanting GMA to go through the impeachment process even before.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:41 pm
“Defense is okay. But you’re a lawyer and you should know that even lawyers are bound by ethics.”
Depends on who the lawyer is.
Mike on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:42 pm
Bencard:
The bribes were not meant to get congressmen to reject the impeachment per se–they were meant to illustrate to JdV the hold GMA has over as many as 190 congressmen, in case JdV is entertaining the idea of allowing a stronger impeachment complaint to be filed. Basically, she has shown him, you try anything funny, I WILL unseat you.
But MLQ, does this mean that GMA has managed to destroy JdV’s power base practically overnight? I knew there’d been raids on Lakas membership, but I thought there were enough JdV loyalists to keep GMA from complete domination. Have so many really deserted JdV?
MAV on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:42 pm
There is poetic justice in this world…
Al Gore wins the the Nobel Peace Prize for raising global awareness on man-made climate changes.
George Bush is reviled for waging HIS unpopular war in Iraq.
Steal an election, kill thousands of people over a lie, use the Constitution as toilet paper….
…in the end, Karma will get ya!
Tililing on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:45 pm
“Bencard,
One legitimate attempt and two fake ones.
First fake was filed by Oliver Lozano and endorsed by Marcoleta.
Second fake was filed by Oliver Pulido and emdorsed by Marcoleta San Luis.
As Ellen Tordesillas asked, why are the pro Gloria congressmen in such a rush to file the Pulido’s impeachment while the opposition is opposing it?
Defense is okay. But you’re a lawyer and you should know that even lawyers are bound by ethics.
And surely a FAKE impeachment complaint, a bakuna or a pre-emptive strike against a real impeachment complaint, is something that only dirt bag jail house lawyers would countenance.
Don’t you agree, Mr. counselor?” manuelbuencamino
i’m not a lawyer but why oh why the opposition been always outmaneuvered (with the likes of ronnie zamora on the opposition side) year-in, year-out. it’s like they have become sitting duck opposition. care to enlighten us all?
would you like to educate us also on what’s ethical and unethical for lawyers to do since you seem to have a full grasp on issues.
3 years in a row of a pre-emptive strike and the opposition didn’t see it coming. are they that slow? or are they that obvious?
don’t you agree, mr. journalist/columnist/whatever?
Bencard on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:46 pm
levi, you’re begging the question. what “wrongdoing” was covered up?
justice in waiting on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:50 pm
Gloria’s people will defend her at a price, that is part of staying in power, like the Mugabe of Zimbabwe, there are still a substantial number of people that will say he is just doing his jobs, moving Zimbabwe to become a first world country in maybe for next 100 years. That the oppositions don’t have the evidence to support their allegations that he is corrupt, and that is also from people who do no get the benefits but truly believe that he is an upstanding ruler. With allegations of illegalities piling against Gloria, the same people, those that are bought and those that are not, will always say the same as Mugabe’s supporters, even when some have doubts…
supremo on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:51 pm
Someone should question that Bernasian interpretation of the impeachment process before the Supreme Court again. The SC might be more inclined to reverse its decision because of the Lozano and Pulido charade.
ramrod on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:54 pm
“The Devil’s greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” – JIM CAROLL
Mav, can “karma” have any effect on people with devilish powers already? People who wantonly do evil things but can make it appear they are not, convincing even the most intelligent(?) among us?
Tililing on Fri, 12th Oct 2007 11:54 pm
“Bencard:
The bribes were not meant to get congressmen to reject the impeachment per se–they were meant to illustrate to JdV the hold GMA has over as many as 190 congressmen, in case JdV is entertaining the idea of allowing a stronger impeachment complaint to be filed. Basically, she has shown him, you try anything funny, I WILL unseat you.
But MLQ, does this mean that GMA has managed to destroy JdV’s power base practically overnight? I knew there’d been raids on Lakas membership, but I thought there were enough JdV loyalists to keep GMA from complete domination. Have so many really deserted JdV?” mike
if bencard is a lawyer, i am his sidekick (ala sancho panza from don quixote fame)
there’s a silent player you did not consider – fvr. he might be retired but after all it was him who founded lakas. jdv might be the garfield of the lower house but his funny face does not mean he’s that naive. he saw this coming alright but he has his own reasons why he let these things happen.
it’s been how many years that we have not seen a more substantial impeachment complaint. i don’t understand that all these years, the opposition has nothing prepared come the termination of the one year ban, why?
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:00 am
“With allegations of illegalities piling against Gloria, the same people, those that are bought and those that are not, will always say the same as Mugabe’s supporters, even when some have doubts…justice in waiting”
Don’t worry! There is poetic justice in this world.
Gore wins the Nobel Prize.
But looks what is happening to Bushie.Reviled the world over.
Steal an election, use the Constitution as toilet paper….
…in the end, Karma will get ya!Even in the PHILIPPINES!
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:05 am
“Gloria’s people will defend her at a price, that is part of staying in power, like the Mugabe of Zimbabwe, there are still a substantial number of people that will say he is just doing his jobs, moving Zimbabwe to become a first world country in maybe for next 100 years. That the oppositions don’t have the evidence to support their allegations that he is corrupt, and that is also from people who do no get the benefits but truly believe that he is an upstanding ruler. With allegations of illegalities piling against Gloria, the same people, those that are bought and those that are not, will always say the same as Mugabe’s supporters, even when some have doubts…” justice in waiting
quite easy to allege yet quite hard to prove, isn’t it? gone were the days of the french revolution and the russian revolution where people just kill their king or their tsar, no questions asked.
majority of african countries are failed states. their resources is a boon and a bane since there are a lot of third parties who wants to get a piece of the pie. blood diamonds in sierra leone, angola and liberia, petroleum in nigeria.
how about a french-revolution and russian-revolution style in the philippines? wow, i want to be one of those in the frontline with a machete
Bencard on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:08 am
ramrod, all lawyers are bound by ethics, no ifs or buts or “it depends”. legal ethics has the force of law, the proven violation of which could make the lawyer a lawyer no more, and/or a jailbird. this is not the same as the so-called “journalists’ code of ethics”. i don’t know what kind of sanctions it has, if any, other than civil or criminal sanctions for its transgressions should they constitute actionable wrongs.
Mike on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:12 am
Tililing:
I’m not sure what your point was about FVR. I agree with MLQ–he seems to have been completely sidelined as a player, and I think he’s bitter about it, so I think he’s sitting out this one. And of course JdV has reasons for what he’s doing–what we’re all doing here is speculating what those reasons may be.
As for the opposition filing a substantial impeachment complaint, perhaps the answer is not so difficult: it’s much faster to file a flawed impeachment charge than to build a formidable impeachment complaint. So perhaps the adminstration “vaccinators” beat the opposition to the punch every time.
mlq3 on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:15 am
bencard: the institutions damaged by the president, to an extent not matched even during martial law are: the executive, the legislative, and the judiciary. she has gutted morale in the civil service. she has set back professionalism in the armed forces a generation. she has moved business and government closer to the negative relationship they had prior to the post edsa reforms.
where she has genuine achievements is in some streamlining of petty corruption in the bureaucracy.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:15 am
bencard, please correct me if i am wrong. the pain of being disbarred is a risk lawyers take if they engage themselves in unethical actions with regards to their profession, right?
regarding media people, the only way to have them accountable is thru libel yet their still complain and cry foul. i don’t know what sanctions await them with the kbp (kapisanan ng mga brodkaster ng pilipinas or kapisanan ng mga bobo ng pilipinas?) there are excesses in the media and it’s obvious.
mlq3 on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:20 am
bencard, i for, one, will be very pleased to eat humble pie if june 30, 2010 rolls around and we’ve managed to elect a new president and have a fresh start.
just as i hope you will gladly eat a steaming helping of it, too, if
a) we manage the above despite a move by gma to amend the constitution before then
b) the new president/prime minister is gma.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:20 am
mike, 3 years and the opposition haven’t made as your term it, a formidable impeachment complaint. where they been all these years? still gathering and digging data and information that isn’t there? even cases filed pending in the prosecutor’s office have a time frame and some of them do have results.
with all the resources of the opposition, all their lawyers, all their so-called non-existent witnesses, what now? what happened? where’s the complaint they always been bragging about, where? i don’t see even a shadow of it. if malacanang beat them once, okay. if malacanang beat them twice, acceptable. but thrice? smells like rotten rat carcass.
mlq3 on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:22 am
mike,
don’t forget jdv started out as a congressman before martial law, around the time the house actually had to build a bullet-proof glass wall around its session floor to protect itself from the public.
he’s a survivor and he seems healthy to me. he has one term left to go. the president does not.
mlq3 on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:24 am
tililing, because the process was designed with serious cases in mind. just this year, a serious case could be built on the jarius bondoc revelations and zte-nbn and if you wait a little more, on cybered.
if you wait.
which the palace could not.
and which the opposition, if it wanted to mount a credible and serious case, has to do.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:28 am
“bencard, i for, one, will be very pleased to eat humble pie if june 30, 2010 rolls around and we’ve managed to elect a new president and have a fresh start.
just as i hope you will gladly eat a steaming helping of it, too, if
a) we manage the above despite a move by gma to amend the constitution before then
b) the new president/prime minister is gma.”
what you are trying to speculate on is that, you are worrying about spilled milk wherein the cow where the milk would come from has not yet been born. simply put, your assumption is all about terminal imagination (referring to terminal cancer).
let’s not get too much ahead of ourselves.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:31 am
“tililing, because the process was designed with serious cases in mind. just this year, a serious case could be built on the jarius bondoc revelations and zte-nbn and if you wait a little more, on cybered.
if you wait.
which the palace could not.
and which the opposition, if it wanted to mount a credible and serious case, has to do.” mlq3
what happened to the formidable case using the hello garci investigations? i thought they said they had enough evidence. the problem is, enough evidence to convict or acquit gma.
if there has been a lot of talk about too much corruption why depend on the zte-nbn deal? i won’t rely too much on this jarius bondoc guy. after all, what he got when said in court is hearsay not unless neri confirms the the bubbly words that comes out from the mouth of jarius boy.
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:32 am
“legal ethics has the force of law, the proven violation of which could make the lawyer a lawyer no more, and/or a jailbird.” – bencard
The keyword is “proven.” But then again, its pointless to argue with legality as it is in black and white and the best lawyers (meaning highly paid ones) are usually those who can get their clients off the hook – even the guilty ones. I know of one such lawyer who won “rape” cases inspite of the fact that these rich defendants really did rape their victims. This lawyer happens to be a friend of mine, he’s rich, has around 32 children from 9 wives (only one is legal though). We don’t live in LEGAL HEAVEN, this is real life…
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:34 am
“Can “karma†have any effect on people with devilish powers already? People who wantonly do evil things but can make it appear they are not, convincing even the most intelligent(?) among us?Ramrod
The tenet of karma is essentially “if you do good things, good things will happen to you — if you do bad things, bad things will happen to you.”
I don’t think they can bribe the 189 congressmen to repeal the law of Karma!
Bencard on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:34 am
tililing, you’re right on target. that’s why law is considered one of the three traditional PROFESSIONS, the other two being medicine and priesthood. priesthood protects the soul, medicine protects life, and law protects freedom.
i’m a graduate of journalism (served as my pre-law) but for the life of me, i’m not so sure what sanctions “envelopmental” or creative journalists are subject to.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:38 am
““legal ethics has the force of law, the proven violation of which could make the lawyer a lawyer no more, and/or a jailbird.†– bencard
The keyword is “proven.†But then again, its pointless to argue with legality as it is in black and white and the best lawyers (meaning highly paid ones) are usually those who can get their clients off the hook – even the guilty ones. I know of one such lawyer who won “rape†cases inspite of the fact that these rich defendants really did rape their victims. This lawyer happens to be a friend of mine, he’s rich, has around 32 children from 9 wives (only one is legal though). We don’t live in LEGAL HEAVEN, this is real life…”
ramrod,no delicadeza. no shame. that’s how things work these days. it’s all about me, myself, and tililing. might be confusing for some but makes a lot of sense. look after your own ass, that’s about it.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:42 am
“tililing, you’re right on target. that’s why law is considered one of the three traditional PROFESSIONS, the other two being medicine and priesthood. priesthood protects the soul, medicine protects life, and law protects freedom.
i’m a graduate of journalism (served as my pre-law) but for the life of me, i’m not so sure what sanctions “envelopmental†or creative journalists are subject to.”
bencard, it might be one reason it’s called creative journalism – they create and invent stories even without solid basis. it makes sense to them. why do some detective work if it’s to easy to use your imagination to concoct things and create some conspiracy theories.
the more controversial the story, the better for the company. i don’t believe that journalist/editors/writers have 100% independence from the print of broadcast media they work for. not in the philippines.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:42 am
bencard, among the traditional professions, i think you forgot prostitution or perhaps you got that covered under law.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:45 am
cvj, who in his right might would think that the professions of law, medicine, and priesthood can be compared to prostitution?
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:46 am
“i don’t know what kind of sanctions it has, if any, other than civil or criminal sanctions for its transgressions should they constitute actionable wrongs.”
Bencard,
The media is indispensable in a democratic country and the Filipino is not as gullible as you think. Its the people who will decide to accept or ignore what the media dishes out. It seems that GMA can take comfort at the moment, but history will tell us that repression always results to some form of rebellion. If the law is silenced or used to silent the dissenting voices, the PEOPLE will speak eventually…We have two deposed self-proclaimed strongmen as evidence of that, one is rotting in his grave, the other rotting in jail.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:46 am
…someone who is not ’tililing’.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:48 am
cvj, really? what are you then? a prostitute yourself?
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:49 am
tililing, i’ve never been a lawyer.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:50 am
““i don’t know what kind of sanctions it has, if any, other than civil or criminal sanctions for its transgressions should they constitute actionable wrongs.â€
Bencard,
The media is indispensable in a democratic country and the Filipino is not as gullible as you think. Its the people who will decide to accept or ignore what the media dishes out. It seems that GMA can take comfort at the moment, but history will tell us that repression always results to some form of rebellion. If the law is silenced or used to silent the dissenting voices, the PEOPLE will speak eventually…We have two deposed self-proclaimed strongmen as evidence of that, one is rotting in his grave, the other rotting in jail.”
responsible media not irresponsible media and those media who are fond of tall tales and conspiracy theories, without basis, without evidence, mere speculations.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:52 am
tililing, i’ve never been a lawyer. cvj
prostitute maybe? since you wanna elevate the profession on par with law, medicine, and priesthood. so, you one of them (gentxt) prostis?
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:00 am
“prostitute maybe? since you wanna elevate the profession on par with law, medicine, and priesthood. so, you one of them (gentxt) prostis?” – tililing
Tililing, actually there are times prostitutes are even above the law, medicine, and priesthood – when they’re on top (WOT) of a lawyer, a doctor, and a priest.
Just a Silvanus joke…Its the health spa below Pegasus…
Bencard on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:01 am
what does prostitution protects, cvj, your libido? i guess, by your line of reasoning, armed robbery, murder for hire, kidnapping and extortion are “professions”. perverted minds produce perverted thoughts.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:02 am
tililing, when it comes to the professions of prostitution and law there is no need for elevation. so far, i haven’t heard any calls to kill all prostitutes. i can’t say the same for lawyers.
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:03 am
“responsible media not irresponsible media and those media who are fond of tall tales and conspiracy theories, without basis, without evidence, mere speculations”
Yes, I agree there are irresponsible media people, sometimes we call them “paparacci” but there are also unethical lawyers. In a perfect world we will have no need for both…
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:03 am
ramrod, got your joke. hate the person not the profession. that’s the message i wanna get across to people like cvj. hope he sticks it to his gray matter.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:04 am
cvj, if you have something against lawyers, doctors, priests, hate the person not the profession. they way you mock it, it’s like your mouth is as filthy as that of a comodo dragon’s (acidic).
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:06 am
“what does prostitution protects, cvj, your libido? i guess, by your line of reasoning, armed robbery, murder for hire, kidnapping and extortion are “professionsâ€. perverted minds produce perverted thoughts.” bencard
you hit the nail where it’s at.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:07 am
tililing, you have just inverted the teachings of Christ. he said hate the sin but love the sinner (i.e. the ‘person’).
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:08 am
““responsible media not irresponsible media and those media who are fond of tall tales and conspiracy theories, without basis, without evidence, mere speculationsâ€
Yes, I agree there are irresponsible media people, sometimes we call them “paparacci†but there are also unethical lawyers. In a perfect world we will have no need for both…”
lawyers can be disbarred how about irresponsible media practitioners? will they be tolerated and form part of the bacteria’s in society?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:09 am
“tililing, you have just inverted the teachings of Christ. he said hate the sin but love the sinner (i.e. the ‘person’).” cvj
cvj, i’m a muslim, so?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:11 am
cvj, you can teach christ to others in this blog but i’m for allah so don’t involve religion if you have some courtesy to religions, that is. but by the looks of it, you have invented a new profession, bachelor of science in mockery or shall i say you got you ph d at a pretty young age?
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:12 am
Well, here we go again. Why are reasonably normal people like us pecking away at the pc in a perfectly good Friday night? I don’t know about you but I’m signing off, and get a massage (hopefully with a happy ending).
Bencard on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:22 am
ramrod, unless both parties are of same sex, right? (lol).
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:25 am
“ramrod, unless both parties are of same sex, right? (lol).”- bencard
Bencard, now that is not normal…
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:29 am
night mr. bencard
night mr. ramrod
night mr. cvj
happy weekend. just having my tililing moments.
i’ll be back to normal tomorrow
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:35 am
goodnight folks. happy hari raya tililing.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:36 am
cvj, look at my
it’s already cleaned. just brushed my teeth.
Bencard on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:02 am
mlq3, regarding the “institutions” that you allege to have been “damaged” by the president (hyperbolically worst than any other president), it’s impossible to argue with vague generalizations. if you remember your history, elpidio quirino was portrayed as the “most corrupt” president with accusations of massive graft in connection with war damage reparations, pratra, prisco, etc., etc., along with massive election cheating, guns, goons and gold. carlos p. garcia was derided as a corrupt, incompetent, mediocre president under whose watch, the “future of the country was as dark as the color of his skin”. his administration was wracked with a number of “earth-shaking” scandals, most notable of which was the harry stonehill national shame. both quirino and garcia died relatively with no extraordinary wealth. marcos? what can i say. he not only damaged an institution or two, he damaged the whole government institution as we knew it. and estrada? need i say anything?
btw, most certainly, mlq3. i will eat the humble pie (lots of it) should gma not step down from the presidency after june 2010.
rego on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 7:38 am
ramrod :
Well, here we go again. Why are reasonably normal people like us pecking away at the pc in a perfectly good Friday night? I don’t know about you but I’m signing off, and get a massage (hopefully with a happy ending).
—————
He he he …..ako naman eh nag hahantay lang na kahit man lang mga alas onse na nag gabi. (Its only 7:35 here)Then off I go to Baryo….
rego on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 7:44 am
Tililing,
Yan din ang kinakainis ko sa oposisyon, laging naunahan at nauutakan ni Gloria.
DinaPinoy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 8:23 am
Bencard says:
marcos? what can i say. he not only damaged an institution or two, he damaged the whole government institution as we knew it. and estrada? need i say anything?
————————————–
sama ako ng lima dyan. although i’m afraid gloria is marcos’ reincarnation. si marcos ang nag-umpisang sumira ng lahat ng institusyon ng pinas – kasama na ang simbahan/relehyon.
justice in waiting on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 8:25 am
“majority of african countries are failed states. their resources is a boon and a bane since there are a lot of third parties who wants to get a piece of the pie. blood diamonds in sierra leone, angola and liberia, petroleum in nigeria”…Tililing.
And the Philippines is First World bound in 20 years, but i don’t see any signs of a country getting there. The way it is governed it will be among the failed states, unless the masses wake of their collective complacency and maybe invent another Revolution that is truly conclusive. Not necessarily taking out those rusty machetes, because it is not the personalities the revolution going to terminate, it is the culture that was somewhat taken root for being fertilized (remember joc-joc) and nurtured for a long long time…The culture of Corruptions and abuse of power and all the pleasures that come with them. And the pie that is the Philippines may not be as big and delicious, but shared among the corrupt few, it is just as satisfying….
Pilipinoparin on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:11 am
Bencard says:
marcos? what can i say. he not only damaged an institution or two, he damaged the whole government institution as we knew it. and estrada? need i say anything?
————————————–
sama ako ng lima dyan. although i’m afraid gloria is marcos’ reincarnation. si marcos ang nag-umpisang sumira ng lahat ng institusyon ng pinas – kasama na ang simbahan/relehyon.
Bakas din ako diyan. Ang ipinagtataka ko, bakit kahit isa walang naparausahan? Bakit iyong mga tuta ni Makoy pa rin ang pasimuno ng maraming gulo kahit ngayon? Inutil na ba ang karamihan sa mga Pilipino? Sabagay kilala nga tayong mapagpasensiya, matiisin kaya nga inabot ng 300 taon ang mga Kastila dito at humigit kumulang 20 taon si Makoy sa poder. Ahhhh, kailan magigising mga kabayan natin?
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:41 am
I don’t think this blog deserves the “personalan” presented here.
Media, religion, and this puppet, fake democratic government are but tools to perpetuate vested interests of the few.
And if we can’t shift from arguing to acting, then we truly deserve the kind of government we have today.
Lahat naman tayo magaling sa idea when it comes to good governance. Ang problema hanggang satsat lang tayo. Samantala, ang tunay na kalaban ng bayan, proactive – that is, gawa muna bago justification and whitewash o cover-up.
Kaya ba nating umaksyon muna, at tsaka na satsat?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:52 am
“btw, most certainly, mlq3. i will eat the humble pie (lots of it) should gma not step down from the presidency after june 2010.” bencard
i will also eat the pie … the chicken pie that is. btw, how big is this humble pie? what’s the diameter and how thick?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:58 am
“I don’t think this blog deserves the “personalan†presented here.
Media, religion, and this puppet, fake democratic government are but tools to perpetuate vested interests of the few.
And if we can’t shift from arguing to acting, then we truly deserve the kind of government we have today.
Lahat naman tayo magaling sa idea when it comes to good governance. Ang problema hanggang satsat lang tayo. Samantala, ang tunay na kalaban ng bayan, proactive – that is, gawa muna bago justification and whitewash o cover-up.
Kaya ba nating umaksyon muna, at tsaka na satsat?” cool n easy
filipinos are well known to be good at talk but sucks at walking the talk. what i can contribute is that i do my best to be a law abiding citizen (follow the rules and the law from simple traffic rules and throwing of trash), i pay my taxes on time, i allocate a portion of my time for volunteer work, i allocate a portion of my little money for charity. it might not be much but as a ordinary person that’s what i can afford to do as of the moment.
although i am for a revolution, i don’t wanna be part of these communist/militant rallies. i smell rotten duck eggs each time they go to the streets.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:00 pm
“sama ako ng lima dyan. although i’m afraid gloria is marcos’ reincarnation. si marcos ang nag-umpisang sumira ng lahat ng institusyon ng pinas – kasama na ang simbahan/relehyon.” dinapinoy
how did marcos destroy the catholic church (as an institution) in the philippines? or whatever church you are referring to? pls. magnify your claim
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:04 pm
“Yan din ang kinakainis ko sa oposisyon, laging naunahan at nauutakan ni Gloria.” rego
why oh why? if the opposition really has something substantial why until now they have not presented something formidable? now they as saying, there are some revelations in the zte-nbn deal? what about the hello garci evidence? how about other allegations? where’s the evidence? have they found it or it’s non-existent?
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:09 pm
The “Pinnochio Test” on spins(Believe or not)
1) “The Philippines is the most democratic country in our region. We have no tolerance for human rights violations at home or abroad.†GMA Speech in the UN General Assembly;Sept.28,2007
2) “My example is integrity.”
- Interview with Asiaweek
January 24, 2001
3)” The truth is I am cute and short but I am above gossip.”
April 20, 2001
4) “The days of plunder are over.”
- Press Conference
March 20, 2001
5) ” …the only way to build a brighter future for the Philippines is “leadership by example.”
- Interview with Associated Press
6) “Like Caesar’s wife, we must be above suspicion and we must see to it that morality, transparency and commitment will be supreme, always and everywhere.”
- Press Conference
March 20, 2001
7) “I have no grandiose dreams to become a great President. But I want to be a good President. Help me be a good President.”
- Speech during her first day in Malacanang, January 22, 2001
8)Our Cabinet members were chosen on the basis of competence, integrity and dedication to serve the country.”
- Press Conference, Malacanang
January 30, 2001
9) “Just articulate what we are doing, less glitz, less porma, more substance. Just be candid.”
April 20, 2001
10) “I have asked the Secretary to put a stop to stage-managed kidnappings with policemen acting as actors, directors and producers”
- Press Conference, Malacanang
April 24, 2001
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:28 pm
MAV, if i may add to your “Pinnochio Test†:
“To ensure that our gains are not dissipated through corruption, we must improve moral standards. As we do so, we create fertile ground for good governance based on a sound moral foundation, a philosophy of transparency, and an ethic of effective implementation.” – Inauguration speech, January 20, 2001.”
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:31 pm
CVJ: thanks!
my favorite:
“The days of plunder are over.â€
- Press Conference
March 20, 2001
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:32 pm
How do we say “let’s move on“, let me count the ways…
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:33 pm
MAV, thanks as well.
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:33 pm
“although i am for a revolution, i don’t wanna be part of these communist/militant rallies. i smell rotten duck eggs each time they go to the streets.” – T
The revolution i’m advocating for is not the one you described above. It never crossed my mind that going to the streets is the most effective tool for a total change.
Revolution of the Mind – the reexamination of prevailing theories and beliefs, a comprehensive search for Truth, in short – Enlightenment. This is the most potent weapon against a corrupted society.
An Enlightened Mind can never be corrupted even at the pain of death.
______________________________________________________
forgive me for using T, i don’t think you deserve the whole word.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:34 pm
“How do we say “let’s move on“, let me count the ways…” cvj
what do you do as a citizen aside from talking a lot?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:37 pm
“The revolution i’m advocating for is not the one you described above. It never crossed my mind that going to the streets is the most effective tool for a total change.
Revolution of the Mind – the reexamination of prevailing theories and beliefs, a comprehensive search for Truth, in short – Enlightenment. This is the most potent weapon against a corrupted society.
An Enlightened Mind can never be corrupted even at the pain of death.” cool n easy
i get your point. your idea is very good. the question is, how do you wanna go about it? overhauling the education system? bringing those accountable and responsible for plundering the country to justice? what are the ways?
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:45 pm
Tililing, so let’s move on na lang? Sabi mo, eh.
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:46 pm
BTW,
And why are you afraid of Communism? Do you really think that our brand of democracy is better than Communism?
I’ve been to Vietnam, and they are doing a lot better than us. And who says there’s no private property in a communist country?
This is what i’m trying to get across. i think we should stop labeling…. communists, muslims, terrorists, etc…. it’s divisive.
The man up there is still using the age-old strategy of Sun Tzu’s, “divide and conquer”. And we always voluntarily succumb to these manipulations.
Can’t we have one coherent approach to realizing a better government?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:47 pm
“Tililing, so let’s move on na lang? Sabi mo, eh.” cvj
don’t put words into my mouth. could you quote if i said anything to the tune of let’s move on. and you did not answer my question. aside from your putak ng putak, what do you do as a citizen?
Shaman of Malilipot on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:49 pm
Bencard, Cuenco himself said if was an early “Christmas gift.” Two other congressmen also admitted the “gift-giving”, although they refused to be named. Pork is released through SARO, not in cash stuffed in envelopes.
I opposed the Con-Con through SnB’s people’s initiative because it was meant to amend the Constitution to perpetuate GMA in power, Marcos-style. I’m all for amending the Constitution after GMA leaves, not to change the form of government but to strengthen the political institutions and make them work for the people’s general welfare.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:51 pm
“BTW,
And why are you afraid of Communism? Do you really think that our brand of democracy is better than Communism?
I’ve been to Vietnam, and they are doing a lot better than us. And who says there’s no private property in a communist country?
This is what i’m trying to get across. i think we should stop labeling…. communists, muslims, terrorists, etc…. it’s divisive.
The man up there is still using the age-old strategy of Sun Tzu’s, “divide and conquerâ€. And we always voluntarily succumb to these manipulations.
Can’t we have one coherent approach to realizing a better government?” cool n easy
i am not afraid of communism. i abhor communism. whether or not communism is better than democracy or democracy is better than communism, just look how many surviving communist countries in the world today and how do the people in these countries live?
vietnam is not anymore a purely communist state. they are moving towards capitalism. tell me, what country prospered that’s purely communist? it’s not the communist structure per se that made them progress, it’s hte capitalis aspect. why is china purely communist country with them embracing capitalism?
so, what are you suggetions?
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:53 pm
cool.n.easy, i don’t think we can classify today’s Vietnam as purely communist. What Vietnam and China (and their capitalist counterparts Korea, Japan and Taiwan) had in common was a two phase approach to development:
1. The first step was to eliminate their oligarchs and spread the wealth and productive capacities to the general population. This positioned their society for the subsequent industrialization.
2. Once a society with greater social equity was achieved, then they put in place market reforms to harness these productive capabilities.
The above phases overlapped to a certain degree and the methods used were different (dictatorship at some points, democracy at others), but i believe the substance is social equity first, followed by market reforms.
Shaman of Malilipot on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 12:55 pm
cvj, on rego, I stand corrected, then. Good for you, brother rego.
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:03 pm
I’m alarmed at the mischief that’s going on, day after day, in the highest corridors of power.
We have a failure of leadership in a flawed political culture.
Too much misinformation and outright lies being peddled by the “system”.
The smart operatives can put out the most outrageous SPINS to fool us.
I can’t do much.But if I can “expose at least one spin a day”, I would already be happy.
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:06 pm
what are the ways?
1. Get rid of all the corrupted leaders thru physical isolation or complete elimination. Let’s be practical. We can’t implement our collective ideas for good governance because as you meant, the formidable infrastructure that serves only the few is there, and i agree.
Nasubukan na natin lahat ng legal na paraan. So anong alternative, di ba extra-legal? In order to eliminate Evil in a society, Good Men must be willing to become evil themselves even for a day.
2. Reeducate not just the masses, but even us “intellectuals”;
3. Establish a true independent institutions by not giving the president the appointing authority;
4. Future Leaders must be selected from amongst the best in us, that is, not everyone who approaches 18 can vote and run for office. There should be a better qualification. Personally, i want to be led by someone who’s a lot better than me. If it’s you T, then, so be it.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:14 pm
Tililing, what i quoted from you (at October 13th, 2007 12:32 pm) above is the essence of the “Let’s move on message“, a retreat into private and local/community concerns away from matters that affect State and Society at large. In itself, private and community responsibility is a good thing, but if it distracts us from awareness of the injustice, corruption,and subversion of our institutions, then it becomes yet another tool of those who hold power.
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:17 pm
vietnam is not anymore a purely communist state. they are moving towards capitalism. tell me, what country prospered that’s purely communist?
I don’t think you really know what you’re talking. South Americas and some European states today are becoming more and more Socialists. Even France Socialists almost win the last elections.
Vietnam is just playing with the West. They can never be controlled. They have been fighting to preserve their independence for a millennium, and they are not about to change. Everyday, their media is broadcasting the lives of their heroes then and now.
The Capitalists are in control of the present financial system. But if we can follow the examples of Argentina, Venezuela, etc. we can surely be better off than today, even under a capitalist environment.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:18 pm
“what are the ways?
1. Get rid of all the corrupted leaders thru physical isolation or complete elimination. Let’s be practical. We can’t implement our collective ideas for good governance because as you meant, the formidable infrastructure that serves only the few is there, and i agree.
Nasubukan na natin lahat ng legal na paraan. So anong alternative, di ba extra-legal? In order to eliminate Evil in a society, Good Men must be willing to become evil themselves even for a day.
2. Reeducate not just the masses, but even us “intellectualsâ€;
3. Establish a true independent institutions by not giving the president the appointing authority;
4. Future Leaders must be selected from amongst the best in us, that is, not everyone who approaches 18 can vote and run for office. There should be a better qualification. Personally, i want to be led by someone who’s a lot better than me. If it’s you T, then, so be it.” cool n easy
1. i agree. i would even go further to either hang these people or guillotine them (the french revolution example). with the present system. this might be quite impossible. the system convicted an ex-president but where is he now? having the time of his life in his, yes, isolated but certainly posh and extravagant rest house.
2. this is a really tremendous task – reeducation. to educate the uneducated, to re-educate the mis-educated, and to un-educate and re-educate the mal-educated. schools now are becoming milking cows by some capitalists except for some, that is.
3. again, quite radical. do you have any idea on a certain model we can have as jumping board. i mean, what country in the world wherein government institutions are not within presidential appointive powers that eventually worked. after all, government is about politics is all about political debts. do you mean executive, legislative, and judiciary or non-appointive powers of president on constitutional, supra-constitutional agencies. if were talking of line agencies, the president always have the hand on this because it borders on executive antecedents.
4. more qualifications, agree. caveat, marcos was brilliant but became a dictator. erap was kinda intellectually challenged but became another president who practiced crony capitalism. i’m a simple man with simple dreams.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:19 pm
Nasubukan na din iyan ni Gloria and her Civil Society supporters. Wasn’t the evil of cheating in 2004 (aka ‘Hello Garci’) justified on the basis of preventing an FPJ Presidency (thought to be an evil outcome by the elitist crowd). In fact, doing evil under the guise of doing a greater good is a large part of what got us into this situation in the first place.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:23 pm
“Tililing, what i quoted from you (at October 13th, 2007 12:32 pm) above is the essence of the “Let’s move on message“, a retreat into private and local/community concerns away from matters that affect State and Society at large. In itself, private and community responsibility is a good thing, but if it distracts us from awareness of the injustice, corruption,and subversion of our institutions, then it becomes yet another tool of those who hold power.” cvj
don’t make assumptions not unless i have clearly stipulated it. what you’re doing is assuming. i think all of us have to get back to the basics of social change. by ourselves let’s become good citizens. by our influence let’s spread it to our circle of influence. hope that a certain ripple effect would happen.
what we need these days are more people doing something good rather than sweet-talking. take for example, i have nothing against rallies but if 50% of their time is spent on being productive, it adds up to the total productivity of the nation that would translate into better opportunities for other people.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:24 pm
I think reeducation is essentially an elitist concept. It’s used by the upper and middle classes, particularly those with an elitist mindset and who favor an elite-vanguard approach to deny others their voice.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:31 pm
“I don’t think you really know what you’re talking. South Americas and some European states today are becoming more and more Socialists. Even France Socialists almost win the last elections.
Vietnam is just playing with the West. They can never be controlled. They have been fighting to preserve their independence for a millennium, and they are not about to change. Everyday, their media is broadcasting the lives of their heroes then and now.
The Capitalists are in control of the present financial system. But if we can follow the examples of Argentina, Venezuela, etc. we can surely be better off than today, even under a capitalist environment.” cool n easy
don’t mix up socialism (economic system) with communism (political system). first and foremost, you must understand that in a socialist system, people have some say and in a communist system, few and few people have a say on things. if you’re talking about socialism, then yes, there are countries which thrived on it but not communism as you’ve said earlier.
france is becoming more a socialist not a communist. how do you know that vietnam is playing with the west? money can do a lot of changes in an economy, a nation for that matter.
for one, venezuela has a lot of oil to exploit and part of opec. taka away the oil income of venezuela and let’s see if venezuela could sustain on other industries. argentina has always have political instability at its doorsteps even defaulting foreign debts. are these the countries that you want the philippines to emulate?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:33 pm
“I think reeducation is essentially an elitist concept. It’s used by the upper and middle classes, particularly those with an elitist mindset and who favor an elite-vanguard approach to deny others their voice.” cvj
so what’s the proper term for you?
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:35 pm
Cool.n.easy, apologies for the wrong attribution (at October 13th, 2007 at 1:18 pm). That quote should be attributed to Tililing.
Tililing, no assumption is needed since everything you say is contained within the text of your comment. What you say (at October 13th, 2007, 1:23 pm) is further confirmation that you belong to the “Let’s move on” camp. Even the phrases ‘circle of influence’ (and ‘circle of concern’) has been used by someone else from that camp before. As i said, it’s not bad in itself, but becomes that way if it serves as a distraction (aka ’spin’).
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:36 pm
cool n easy, my reply to you about vietnam is still awaiting moderation.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:39 pm
“Tililing, no assumption is needed since everything you say is contained within the text of your comment. What you say (at October 13th, 2007, 1:23 pm) is further confirmation that you belong to the “Let’s move on†camp. Even the phrases ‘circle of influence’ (and ‘circle of concern’) has been used by someone else from that camp before. As i said, it’s not bad in itself, but becomes that way if it serves as a distraction (aka ’spin’).” cvj
so more blah blah than action?
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:39 pm
Hello guys,
I see cvj and titillating are still at it huh?
Bribery in private and especially government biddings is almost impossible to prove. Shamefully, I dabbled a little bit in the past, you don’t leave a trail, no signed vouchers for bribe money and commissions, purely cash, you deliver the goods to the house of the official, no transactions in the office. If you really need to use ATM, deposit in the wife’s or relatives bank account, no checks. Of course as smoke can never be hidden, there’s a trail of stink, but thats about it, good luck building a case based on “talk.” It only becomes a problem once one of the parties involved, the briber and the bribee testifies and comes up with a paper trail, other than that its just dismissed easily as heresay. My favorite quotation at that time ” The Devil’s greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn’t exist.†– JIM CAROLL
I was young and foolish and I thought being a “devil” was cool and the “good guys” the ones who play fair are PUSHOVERS, dorks, and yes, nerds, who remain virgins because they lacked the guts to cross the line every now and then to live the good life.
I grew up… In my old age I realized the folly of materialism, you can’t take it with you. Unfortunately for us, there’s a new generation of “devils” now and an old generation that refused to grow up.
As I said before, GMA is going “HAHAHAHAHA! Catch me if you can you amateurs!” ala Dr. Evil and Luli “hahahahaha!” ala mini me…
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:43 pm
Tililing, it’s not the term, but the attitude of superiority inherent in the concept. The word is used by elitists of all stripes. I’ve seen ignorant people from the upper and middle class use that term against the poor majority. Of course, the communists are also fond of using ‘reeducation’ to convey that they know something that the rest doesn’t.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:52 pm
Ramrod, where i work, i’m one of those who usually accompanies the salesman to do the technical presentation and answer technical questions. I can only say that after watching you guys in action for almost 20 years, i have a sense of the pressures you’re under and am in awe of your profession.
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 1:57 pm
“although i am for a revolution, i don’t wanna be part of these communist/militant rallies. i smell rotten duck eggs each time they go to the streets.”- titillating
Titillating este tililing,
I will hazard a guess that you’re probably half my age. There was a time I looked at rallyists as such, add the labor unions picketing the company gates, but you must admit we are now enjoying some of the benefits that resulted from the actions of these “rotten duck eggs smelling people,” they may probably smell like that because they’ve been out there in the sun for the whole day, shouting, fighting for what should have been. In the case of labor unions, they might have forced the management CBA team to review their offer and gave in to the union like salary increases, additional benefits, etc. (which is not bad don’t you think?) I used to judge these people rather harshly, now I regard them with some respect, respect for those who act instead of “satsat” that most of us here seem not to like. Please be more reserving of your judgements fof those rapists, hijackers, kidnappers, murderers, and dictatorial housewives.
GPS on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:03 pm
ramrod,
Kudos! Your sincerity, honesty and mellowness (having the gentleness, wisdom, or tolerance often characteristic of maturity)makes me think of brewing my coffee for the afternoon. We need more bloggers like you, I hope some bloggers will learn from your attitude ( you know who they are).
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:07 pm
“Tililing, it’s not the term, but the attitude of superiority inherent in the concept. The word is used by elitists of all stripes. I’ve seen ignorant people from the upper and middle class use that term against the poor majority. Of course, the communists are also fond of using ‘reeducation’ to convey that they know something that the rest doesn’t.” cvj
the way i see it is very simple. assess and analyze the flaws in the present education both in the public and private sphere. make the necessary regulatory adjustments. no need to inject the issue on whether it’s from the elite or non-elite bull droppings.
i was sent to school by my parents with sweat and blood. fortunately i graduated college. i took it upon myself to work hard and sent myself to school for advanced studies. let’s not inject some color on whether there’s really miseducation and maleducation. i don’t think the term reeducation that me and cool n easy used was referring in anyway to vietnam reeducation camps. it’s a simple term, no nonsense, no bullshit.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:12 pm
“I will hazard a guess that you’re probably half my age. There was a time I looked at rallyists as such, add the labor unions picketing the company gates, but you must admit we are now enjoying some of the benefits that resulted from the actions of these “rotten duck eggs smelling people,†they may probably smell like that because they’ve been out there in the sun for the whole day, shouting, fighting for what should have been. In the case of labor unions, they might have forced the management CBA team to review their offer and gave in to the union like salary increases, additional benefits, etc. (which is not bad don’t you think?) I used to judge these people rather harshly, now I regard them with some respect, respect for those who act instead of “satsat†that most of us here seem not to like. Please be more reserving of your judgements fof those rapists, hijackers, kidnappers, murderers, and dictatorial housewives.” ramrod
don’t get me wrong. i am against political rallies. i am not against rallies like rallies for employment benefits. as i have said, only if the participants of these senseless political rallies work rather than spend their days rallying, then we have some productivity to add to our economy. now, how can these people afford to rally everyday and how do they live? i wonder. i am more particular with communist/militant political rallies not the rallies you are referring too. anyway, at least i clarified that one.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:14 pm
“ramrod,
Kudos! Your sincerity, honesty and mellowness (having the gentleness, wisdom, or tolerance often characteristic of maturity)makes me think of brewing my coffee for the afternoon. We need more bloggers like you, I hope some bloggers will learn from your attitude ( you know who they are).” gps
blunt question, you referring to me (at least one of those you are referring to)?
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:22 pm
Ramrod, i’m all for improving the educational system, but we cannot ignore the political aspect of the term. The question of elitism arises when it comes to considering who will do the educating who will be educated, and what is to be done with those who are not yet educated. Cool.n.easy’s reference to introducing more stringent qualifications for candidates and voters is a consequence of such a distinction. That get’s in the way of genuine dialogue among the classes (i.e. EDSA Dos and EDSA Tres).
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:24 pm
Sorry Tililing, the above response was meant for you. I think i need to eat something…
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:33 pm
“Ramrod, i’m all for improving the educational system, but we cannot ignore the political aspect of the term. The question of elitism arises when it comes to considering who will do the educating who will be educated, and what is to be done with those who are not yet educated. Cool.n.easy’s reference to introducing more stringent qualifications for candidates and voters is a consequence of such a distinction. That get’s in the way of genuine dialogue among the classes (i.e. EDSA Dos and EDSA Tres).”
as for me i don’t notice the political aspect of the term if people work hand in hand on this. if you are afraid that some private schools backed by some elites would exploit this then let’s go to the public schools – state colleges and universities down the line.
my question, do you think that UP and the other state universities are credible enough to undertake this re-education? although, i do believe that both edsa 2 and edsa 3 people have their own valid arguments, i am not in anyway convinced on how edsa 3 people use violence for mob rule.
i think you better grab something to eat first. your mind is starting to mess up itself.
by the way, i read above that you’re a technical guy, what industry you in? maybe we can talk about some technical matters later on.
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:33 pm
GPS,
I’ve been an a–hole for such a long time at times I wonder why, my parents were good people and I studied in Catholic schools? Looking at Philippine politics from an outsider’s point of view would really favor GMA and her administration, even my counterparts from abroad have a good impression of her. I believe you have to “live” here, talk to the people, businessmen, understand other people’s point of views that you can get a clearer picture of how things are. Much of my earlier biases were cleared mainly because of this blog, most especially when MLQ3 referred a book “Closer Than Brothers,” that I really started to understand why I was an a–hole, and would have continued to be so.
Now I see the vigorous exchange of conflicting ideas and opinions here as a good sign at least – let them enjoy the freedom to blog, its the beauty of living in the Philippines. Opinions formed now may change tomorrow (or not), whats more important for me is the existence of people like all of you who refuse to live in the dark…
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:39 pm
exchange of views, may it be heated or not is healthy.
it can only lead to two things, stand your ground and join in or just shut up and be a passive observer in here.
GPS on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:45 pm
ram,
Point well taken. Thanks anyway, I’m now sipping my hot brewed coffee.
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:49 pm
Titillating,
I see you are a “spirited,” intelligent, and not to mention articulate human being, add formidable also. I only ask that this “stand your ground” you’re referring to is not just for “winning any arguments sake” because in the end, it would be nice to come up with a framework of action also that would lead to the productivity you also want.
For now, I have to sign off again, I have to accompany my wife to the hairstylist, and then spend quality time. If it were up to me I’d rather blog here…
pete on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:53 pm
cool.n.easy
:”Kaya ba nating umaksyon muna, at tsaka na satsat?”
ok yun cool.n.easy
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 2:54 pm
“I see you are a “spirited,†intelligent, and not to mention articulate human being, add formidable also. I only ask that this “stand your ground†you’re referring to is not just for “winning any arguments sake†because in the end, it would be nice to come up with a framework of action also that would lead to the productivity you also want.
For now, I have to sign off again, I have to accompany my wife to the hairstylist, and then spend quality time. If it were up to me I’d rather blog here…” ramrod
one of my sidelines was to work in a saloon. i learned some tricks of the trade – rebond, hairdye, haircurl, those stuff
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:03 pm
ramrod, i was also able to have some part time in a laundromat shop. you know, doing some ironing of clothes and doing the laundry jobs. i’m an expert in dry cleaning as well.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:05 pm
tililing, i’m in the IT Industry.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:08 pm
cvj, telecoms? computer systems (hardware, software)? services?
pete on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:19 pm
Mr Mlq3, bro cvj, sir ramrod, comrade tililing,
On revolutions, re-education, solutions,
imho
Revolution after revolution, people power after people power, re-education after re-education, solution after solution is futile unless it touches on the heart of the matter which is the heart of man.
pete on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:37 pm
mlq3,
history,
of the heart
edsa 1 touched the hearts of many but maybe not enough, at edsa 2 there was anger in the hearts of many, righteous anger or self-righteous rage maybe, at edsa 3 there was hurt in the hearts af the masa,
now, what’s the state of the hearts of many?
many say apathy, do you agree?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:39 pm
“Mr Mlq3, bro cvj, sir ramrod, comrade tililing,
On revolutions, re-education, solutions,
imho
Revolution after revolution, people power after people power, re-education after re-education, solution after solution is futile unless it touches on the heart of the matter which is the heart of man.” pete
aside from a change of heart, governance is a hit-miss thing by itself. as to when the right formula will be concocted, time would tell.
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:45 pm
don’t mix up socialism (economic system) with communism (political system).
Whatever ism we have, it’s not the problem. Like i said we should stop labeling ourselves as this and that… it’s divisively useless.
What we must do is to accept the fact that we are all manipulated to accept this reality as the Truth. Where we are today is an imposed manipulated reality.
When can we ever realized that we have been purposely divided into groups and subgroups so we can’t have a coherent mode of action against a small group of people controlling world affairs?
They control every influential media outlets. That is why our way of thinking is molded into what they have been feeding us for centuries.
The only consolation we have today is internet where information are not yet censored.
Again, it’s not about capitalists vs. communists, Christians vs. Muslims, rather greed and hunger, apathy and ignorance.
Matanda na tayo upang maintindihan na ang relihiyon mismo ay isang kasangkapan lang upang kontrolin ang sangkatauhan. Christ did not build church of brick and mortar but compassion right into the hearts of men. That’s why the Church felt threatened and murdered him.
An Enlightened Mind can never be corrupted even at the pain of death.
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 3:49 pm
don’t mix up socialism (economic system) with communism (political system).
Whatever ism we have, it’s not the problem. Like i said we should stop labeling ourselves as this and that… it’s divisively useless.
What we must do is to accept the fact that we are all manipulated to accept this reality as the Truth. Where we are today is an imposed manipulated reality.
When can we ever realized that we have been purposely divided into groups and subgroups so we can’t have a coherent mode of action against a small group of people controlling world affairs?
They control every influential media outlets. That is why our way of thinking is molded into what they have been feeding us for centuries.
The only consolation we have today is internet where information are not yet censored.
Again, it’s not about capitalists vs. communists, Christians vs. Muslims, rather, it’s about greed and hunger, apathy and ignorance, and most of all pataasan ng ihi.
Matanda na tayo upang maintindihan na ang relihiyon mismo ay isang kasangkapan lang upang kontrolin ang sangkatauhan. Christ did not build church of brick and mortar but compassion right into the hearts of men. That’s why the Church felt threatened and murdered him.
An Enlightened Mind can never be corrupted even at the pain of death.
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 4:12 pm
3. again, quite radical. do you have any idea on a certain model we can have as jumping board.”
Why do we always have to look somewhere for the right solutions to our own problems?
I think CVJ here would agree that the best system-wide solution is one that is customized?
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 4:22 pm
“Why do we always have to look somewhere for the right solutions to our own problems?
I think CVJ here would agree that the best system-wide solution is one that is customized?” cool n easy
i think there’s such a thing as learning from other countries, at least those whose civilizations preceded out for centuries and they were able to develop certain general models we can emulate then modify for our own purposes.
if you are thinking of a home-grown customized system-wide solution, it would again fall under a hit-miss endeavor and until when would this hit-miss be perfected if i may ask?
it’s always good at times to think outside the box.
benign0 on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 4:50 pm
“i think there’s such a thing as learning from other countries, at least those whose civilizations preceded out for centuries and they were able to develop certain general models we can emulate then modify for our own purposes.”
Well, it can be argued that “democracy” was a learning from a different country (the West) which at the time seemed like a dandy idea until, that is, it was applied in a society that didn’t have the faintest clue what it means to be a “good leader” — much less select one.
Given the above track record and the abundance of tesed models for progress out there sitting under Pinoys’ noses (also considering that there are 8-10 million of our compatriots actually living and breathing such models), I wonder whether there is any point to even discussing said “models” that are candidates for emulation in Pinoy society.
Here’s mine by the way:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/solution/
mang juan on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 4:51 pm
outside of the box solution customized, i have
back to work, me first
benign0 on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 4:52 pm
“i think there’s such a thing as learning from other countries, at least those whose civilizations preceded out for centuries and they were able to develop certain general models we can emulate then modify for our own purposes.â€
Well, it can be argued that “democracy†was a learning from a different country (the West) which at the time seemed like a dandy idea until, that is, it was applied in a society that didn’t have the faintest clue what it means to be a “good leader†— much less select one.
Given the above track record and the abundance of tesed models for progress out there sitting under Pinoys’ noses (also considering that there are 8-10 million of our compatriots actually living and breathing such models), I wonder whether there is any point to even discussing said “models†that are candidates for emulation in Pinoy society.
Here’s my contribution by the way:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/solution/
katutubo on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 5:36 pm
benign0 looking in from outside,
me looking up from inside
binogn0 you no katutubo no more, think, speak language not from the land no more, you master-like mindset, getreal getdown
katribu on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 5:53 pm
benign0 looking down from down under
me looking up from jungle
benign0 you katribu no more
think, speak not from the land no more
you master-like mindset you think you know more
than all the tribu now and before
getreal, getdown from down under
the masters’ spell no more
cool.n.easy on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 6:13 pm
You and me know who are the real evils in this country today. Between FPJ, who advocated for “debt moratorium”, and Glueria’s trade liberalization policy, i think the distinction is in black and white.
Of course, i don’t have to elaborate what crimes this bogus maniac have perpetuated after the 2004 elections.
rollchan on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 7:14 pm
LOL! Bastusang Pambansa? Oh Manolo…you’re so creative…! =P
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 7:21 pm
I agree, the solution has to be customized because there is no such thing as a context-free solution. However, i also believe that principles and patterns derived from the experience of others is relevant. A system-wide solution requires the application of systems thinking which means considering both matters of structure and matters of context.
I agree with your main distinction between Gloria and FPJ but i don’t think trade liberalization is necessarily evil.
cvj on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 7:41 pm
Benign0, i clicked on your link. In your chart (with the red and blue lines), what unit of measure does your y-axis represent and can you provide the underlying numerical data? Also, can you put dates (not necessariy exact but could be the general time period) for your x-axis?
GPS on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 8:21 pm
“Now I see the vigorous exchange of conflicting ideas and opinions here as a good sign at least – let them enjoy the freedom to blog, its the beauty of living in the Philippines. Opinions formed now may change tomorrow (or not), whats more important for me is the existence of people like all of you who refuse to live in the dark…”- ramrod
ramrod,
I completely agree with what you said. It is also my wish that blogging would one day be one of the favorite pastime of many Filipinos, imagine millions of our countrymen engaged in blogging and “come up with a framework of action that would lead to the productivity” and action our country badly needs. I know this is wishful thinking but for this to happen we need to encourage a lot of people not just by word of mouth but by our decorum. As good soldiers, we can share our ideas with gusto, learn from each other in the process, be humbled by smarter and better concepts and ideas, debate as if there is no more tomorrow. This is the reason why it pains me to see good soldiers shooting at its other,wasting their intelligence and talent . Well, enough of my wishful thinking. Again thanks a lot!
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 8:27 pm
GPS:agree with you!
I think the basic essence of political blogging is captured in this ancient quote:
“There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust.” Demosthenes
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 8:38 pm
“Catch us if you can â€
(Anthem of the
Palace Gang 5)
Here we come again, mmmm-mm-mm
Catch us if you can, mmmm-mm-mm
Time to move on, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Now we gotta run, mmmm-mm-mm
No more time for fun, mmmm-mm-mm
When we’re getting angry, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Yeahhhhh
—— Harmonica ——
Here we come again, mmmm-mm-mm
Catch us if you can, mmmm-mm-mm
Time to move on, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 9:15 pm
“Well, it can be argued that “democracy†was a learning from a different country (the West) which at the time seemed like a dandy idea until, that is, it was applied in a society that didn’t have the faintest clue what it means to be a “good leader†— much less select one.
Given the above track record and the abundance of tesed models for progress out there sitting under Pinoys’ noses (also considering that there are 8-10 million of our compatriots actually living and breathing such models), I wonder whether there is any point to even discussing said “models†that are candidates for emulation in Pinoy society.
Here’s my contribution by the way:
http://www.getrealphilippines.com/solution/” benigno
i have read your getrealphilippines thesis. though at first instance it might give a simplistic solution to all the problems that beset the philippines, it’s quite very nice in words but very hard in terms of application.
how do you suggest that you propositions be approached – should it be top-down or down-top? with the present economic and financial set up of the country, how do you integrate your theories?
MAV on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 9:24 pm
“How To Master Political Spinâ€(Part 2)
Steps:
Step One
Understand what it is that a spin doctor does. Spin is cynically perceived as a form of propaganda: biased, manipulative and deceptive. Sociologists see the rise of spin as a real problem for democracy because it masks transparency and provides the public with distorted information.
Step Two
Become ambiguous, one of the major techniques of spin. Incorporating unclear phrasing can make your exact meaning hard to pin down, which is useful when answering questions about a subject that you don’t want to address.
Example:
“But Puno said that “no such one-on-one meeting ever took place†since there were 190 congressmen at the Palace breakfast meeting called by Ms Arroyo herself.
He added that “no such message (was) delivered (by the Speaker). The President was never told anything like that. This is gospel truth,†Puno stressed.â€
Step Three
Selectively present facts and quotes that support your position.
Example:
But Puno said that “no such one-on-one meeting ever took place†since there were 190 congressmen at the Palace breakfast meeting called by Ms Arroyo herself..Even that I don’t know. Is that a threat? I don’t know that the Speaker is into threatening the President. But I can tell you 100 percent, there is no such one-on-one meeting.â€
Step Four
Learn to use the non-denial denial.
Example:
“Nobody can threaten the President, and I will not stand for it. That’s why I need to let you know that definitely no such meeting happened. If such meeting happened, I would definitely be changing my assessment of the situation,†Puno added.â€
Step Five
Create confusion in the situation .Speak in euphemisms to sound less offensive, disturbing or troubling.
Example:
“Puno said he would not countenance any kind of threat on the President, and on the Speaker. “I am a supporter, he knows that. Napapaaway ako sa sariling party dahil sa kanya (I have quarrels with my own party mates because of my support for him).â€
Puno admitted that both Ms Arroyo and De Venecia, whom he supported during the hotly contested speakership race in July, were “the largest stakeholders in the administration.â€
But Puno confirmed De Venecia’s statement that there were “dark forces†that were out to divide the majority coalition in the House.
Step Six
Use the right words with a touch of humor.
Example:
“Either he was misquoted or something…but definitely, there was no such one-on-one meeting.â€
“Puno said the Inquirer story could be a case of “kuryente (bum steer).â€
Step Seven
Play up weaknesses and make them look charming.
Example:
Saying he was speaking on behalf of the President, Puno said he also doubted whether De Venecia, who has been the subject of persistent ouster rumors, had told Ms Arroyo that his downfall was sure to lead to her downfall as well.
“Puno, who had yet to talk to the Speaker when he called up the Inquirer, said the Speaker’s words were surprising because “if he made that statement, it’s not like him.â€
“He said it was normal for politicians with the same political affiliation to differ, and even to quarrel, over several issues, “but the fundamental political interests remain.â€
Bencard on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:15 pm
kind of missed a lot of the skirmishes (time-zone difference), but i’m glad tililing was there to ably articulate the same views and sentiments i hold. thumbs up to you, t. your handling of cvj’s clever wordplay and faux ‘profundities’ is masterful. are you sure you’re not karah, or bibeth? these guys here surely miss them too, i think.
shaman, if cuenco has, as you said, received cash in an envelope as bribe (and foolishly admitted it over the radio)then he should be prosecuted. i believe you know that both the giver and the taker in bribery are liable. by your account, cuenco has supplied the “smoking gun” against himself, but not necessarily against the alleged bribe-giver. voluntary confession and admission against own interest are two formidable evidence against an accused. why would anyone, apparently sane, accept a bribe (unless in a legitimate sting operation by law enforcers) and squeal about it for no apparent reason is beyond me.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:33 pm
hello everyone
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:33 pm
“your handling of cvj’s clever wordplay and faux ‘profundities’ is masterful.” bencard
i hit the nail where it’s at. i think i hit the nail quite hard and accurate a couple of instances. i know (and you know as well) that these are games people play.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:37 pm
Hmmm….its good I have a close relative in here…Tililing
Hello tililing…. hope you’re not making anybody nuts here today
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:40 pm
Hello and good evening Mr. Bencard
Tililing, if you don’t mind me asking….
What size of nail did you use? Hope you did not use a railroad tie
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:41 pm
engeng, just planting some cockroaches in some people’s minds. shake them a little bit.
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:44 pm
“What size of nail did you use? Hope you did not use a railroad tie” engeng
concrete sleepers
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:46 pm
Speaking of cockroaches, congress is sure housing lots of them.
They are starting to do their dirty work again..the impeachment thing. Cockroaches are known to survive a nuclear blast.
If there was a nuclear blast right now, the only survivors would be the opposition in the congress and the senate… hahahahahahahaha
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:50 pm
“I completely agree with what you said. It is also my wish that blogging would one day be one of the favorite pastime of many Filipinos, imagine millions of our countrymen engaged in blogging and “come up with a framework of action that would lead to the productivity†and action our country badly needs. I know this is wishful thinking but for this to happen we need to encourage a lot of people not just by word of mouth but by our decorum. As good soldiers, we can share our ideas with gusto, learn from each other in the process, be humbled by smarter and better concepts and ideas, debate as if there is no more tomorrow. This is the reason why it pains me to see good soldiers shooting at its other,wasting their intelligence and talent . Well, enough of my wishful thinking.” – ramrod
Hey, its alright to have some wishful thinking.
By the way, did you know that Erap has forgiven GMA? Jinggoy is not running for president. And Loren Legarda is now concentrating more on her job as a senator. My wishful thinking… hahahahahahahaha
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:51 pm
“edsa 1 touched the hearts of many but maybe not enough, at edsa 2 there was anger in the hearts of many, righteous anger or self-righteous rage maybe, at edsa 3 there was hurt in the hearts af the masa,
now, what’s the state of the hearts of many?
many say apathy, do you agree?” – pete
I agree with you especially on this. I see “apathy” in my brothers’ faces and language. In psychology we call it “learned helplessness” its when every action you initiate is met with negative reinforcement/response to the point that you believe its pointless to even think about the action and this even manifests itself physiologically.
On the other hand I see a form of “disassociation” from those who are from the outside looking in. “Insulated” perhaps by callousness and proximity, seem to regard us as idiotic Filipinos and for the meantime forgetting who they are.
Yes. Its a matter of heart. All the rest are “achievable.” But if we don’t have the heart for it…
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:53 pm
“By the way, did you know that Erap has forgiven GMA? Jinggoy is not running for president. And Loren Legarda is now concentrating more on her job as a senator. My wishful thinking… hahahahahahahaha”
Engeng, eng-eng ka talaga, I almost believed you, good thing you added the hahahaha.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:54 pm
Did I say ramrod… my mistake…
“I completely agree with what you said. It is also my wish that blogging would one day be one of the favorite pastime of many Filipinos, imagine millions of our countrymen engaged in blogging and “come up with a framework of action that would lead to the productivity†and action our country badly needs. I know this is wishful thinking but for this to happen we need to encourage a lot of people not just by word of mouth but by our decorum. As good soldiers, we can share our ideas with gusto, learn from each other in the process, be humbled by smarter and better concepts and ideas, debate as if there is no more tomorrow. This is the reason why it pains me to see good soldiers shooting at its other,wasting their intelligence and talent . Well, enough of my wishful thinking.†– GPS
Hey, its alright to have some wishful thinking.
By the way, did you know that Erap has forgiven GMA? Jinggoy is not running for president. And Loren Legarda is now concentrating more on her job as a senator. My wishful thinking… hahahahahahahaha
That’s what I get from too much daydreaming… hahahahahaha
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:55 pm
“Speaking of cockroaches, congress is sure housing lots of them.
They are starting to do their dirty work again..the impeachment thing. Cockroaches are known to survive a nuclear blast.
If there was a nuclear blast right now, the only survivors would be the opposition in the congress and the senate… hahahahahahahaha”
lurking in the corners of batasan pambansa and the gsis building. scavenging for some left-overs but can’t find any. they’ll not only survive a nuclear blast, they’ll survive a meteor shower that wiped out even the dinosaurs.
i’ll bring a can of baygon sometime when i go to the house and senate. i might be cited in contempt. direct contempt is 5k pesos and 30 days in prison and i’ll have the pleasure of praying baygon at these tongressman and moneytors. i’ll single out typus rodriguez in the house and jingle bells in the senate wow.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 10:57 pm
Tililing… did you say Baygon?
Gives me an idea.
But where would we get millions of barrels of Baygon? That’s waht it takes to get rid of those species of cockroaches…….. hahahahahaha
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:01 pm
“Gives me an idea.
But where would we get millions of barrels of Baygon? That’s waht it takes to get rid of those species of cockroaches…….. hahahahahaha” engeng
come to think of it. anthrax would be a good alternative. anthrax mounted near the aircon vents. at least a gallon of anthrax could go a long long way. the pleasure.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:02 pm
There are actually 2 species of super cockroaches.
The one in the congress are the mutated kind, more voracious and are carnivorous, they feed on pork.
The senate specie on the other hand is the bloodsucking kind. Plus they have adapted the termite lifestyle.. they now have a queen in the colony…it was named by entomologists Lorenus Legardasis or Loisus Estadasis
Get your baygons and lets go to the congress and senate… hahahahahahaha
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:05 pm
Anthrax? To kill the super cockroaches
I thought they were the SOURCE of anthrax?
hahahahahahaha
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:08 pm
“So what are we to do?
Manage our resources properly.
Save and invest.
Work with one another to create robust organisational frameworks.
Owe allegiance to the community and the system, not its leaders.” – Benigno
This is actually a brilliant if not a practical approach, no its “proactive” thinking. These are actually doables, we can do these right now, some perhaps have started already…
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:09 pm
“Anthrax? To kill the super cockroaches
I thought they were the SOURCE of anthrax?
hahahahahahaha” engeng
i’ve lab-grown a new strain.
more potent than anyone can imagine. incubation period of 0.00001 nanosecs
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:14 pm
That’s good tililing. A potent anti cockroah strain.
But the congress and senate roaches are known to be resistant. Their faces are as thick as a battleship armor.
hahahahahahah
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:19 pm
“That’s good tililing. A potent anti cockroah strain.
But the congress and senate roaches are known to be resistant. Their faces are as thick as a battleship armor.
hahahahahahah” engeng
my strain could melt titanium like butter. what more mere metal alloys.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:21 pm
I LOVE GMA.
Make no mistake about it. Many would not agree with me, but so what.
If you don’t agree, better convince me.
Note: I don’t like tabloid quality justifications, and please no gossip materials.
Bencard on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:23 pm
Hi and good morning, engeng. welcome to mlq3’s blog.
shaman, i overlooked the second paragraph of your post that i was responding to. what made you so sure that pgma would ‘perpetuate” herself in power through the proposed amendments. i think you were afraid of being afraid. and what makes you think that after her, no scoundrel (worst than her) could diabolically engineer a way to perpetuate him/herself in power? at least with pgma, you have the freedom to hate her, condemn her, gossip about her and her family, make fun of her speech and stature, and get away with all of it. could you have done all that with marcos, or with a marcos-like despot after gma, and live to tell about it, let alone elected as senator or whatever?
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:25 pm
Tililing,
just a note that could help you with your research on the extermination of the super cockroaches.
The congress species are also known for their immense stregnth.
They could carry tons of money at one time. Several times heavier than thier own body weight. They also stash their loot even thier offsprings can’t find them.
beat that … hhahahahahahaha
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:26 pm
phrase for the day: tabloid quality
Tililing on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:33 pm
shaman, you got too much ahead of yourself. assumptions border on mere speculations. is this the result of paranoia? gma might be a lot of things for some people but i don’t think she’s the devil that most of media portray her to be. there are more evil people in the philippines than her.
ramrod on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:36 pm
Benigno,
You have extremely interesting work, I particularly liked the “Blueprint for the Future” it was quite lengthy but you summed it up in three questions. Its not illegal to copy it right? Just for personal consumption.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:38 pm
shaman, i overlooked the second paragraph of your post that i was responding to. what made you so sure that pgma would ‘perpetuate†herself in power through the proposed amendments. i think you were afraid of being afraid. and what makes you think that after her, no scoundrel (worst than her) could diabolically engineer a way to perpetuate him/herself in power? at least with pgma, you have the freedom to hate her, condemn her, gossip about her and her family, make fun of her speech and stature, and get away with all of it. could you have done all that with marcos, or with a marcos-like despot after gma, and live to tell about it, let alone elected as senator or whatever? – bencard
That’s right bencard, the idea of perpetuating oneself in power is not a new concept. Marcos cooked up various ways to do that. But nobody dared oppose or even make the slightest comment.
The idea of perpetually in power is not in power by the same person alone, it could also be perpetuating by having a wife, son or close friend elected as successor. Its also a “tuloy ang ligaya” concept.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:48 pm
bencard,
I’m just surprised by the calims of various goups and personalities that GMA is curtailing democracy.
In fact, its on GMA’s administration where we see the gravest abuse of democracy.
How many times have we seen unfounded accusations being thrown at the administration, with bogus “witnesses”, with equally bogus names like “mawanay” and “mahusay”.
How many impeachment complaints have been cooked up.
The first family is also the subject of ridicules.
Do that on Marcos time and you’re dead.
What more can they ask for.
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:52 pm
tililing,
do you still have the Plasma Converter?
I’m thinking of putting some congressmen in it and turn them into compost.
hahahahahahaha
engeng on Sat, 13th Oct 2007 11:55 pm
Tililing,
I think turning the congressmen into compost would be the least I can do.
After all, we all need congressmen we can use in GROWTH and development.
hahahahahaha
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:02 am
the hello garci issue
there was the house investigations. there was the senate investigations. taxpayer’s money was spent to know the truth but did the truth really surface? did both the house and senate were able to gather evidence? where is the impeachment they kept on promising? even doble’s statements is being contradicted by no less his wife. where are the other alleged corroborating witnesses as always being told by lacson. do they really exist or just mere media hype?
the zte-nbn deal issue
again, lacson said he has some witnesses. where are they now. is there a direct link between the president and this deal? where’s the evidence? where are the people who the opposition said would implicate gma? even relying on romulo neri is mere speculation.
yes, people will say that gma buys out congress and all that. the thing is why until now, the supposed black and white or the mr. hamburglar-colored movement, the rez cortez gang, other self-proclaimed civil society groups have not even gathered say 1% of the population. they number only by the thousands compared to 85 million filipinos. how many times they attempted to state rallies , some even at the behest of former president cory but it was futile. why?
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:05 am
There have lots of accusations. Made by cabinet secretaries, journalists, and even senators.
The question: CAN THOSE ACCUSATIONS BE BACKED UP BY SOLID AND IRREPUTABLE EVIDENCE?
Lets face it, none of the allegations have ever been substanciated by a single shred of evidence. Even Lacson’s, with his fancy (but confusing) Powerpoint presentations are basically unfounded accusations.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:09 am
IRREPUTABLE – should be IRREFUTABLE
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:12 am
GMA, in the context of command responsibility is a disgraced leader. The 2010 elections will put her in her place (if she decides to run) – outside the country. The time honored tradition of disgraced leaders is to resign for the good of the organization and allow a smooth transition, not scorched earth policy. The Philippines, contrary to what some people may believe or would like us to believe does not have a shortage of leaders, its just that we as responsible and enlightened citizens, as well as QUALIFIED VOTERS must have a clear picture of who we need to choose, what this leader’s vision for the country is, and how he/she intends to accomplish this, and what the time lines are.
Debate on GMA’s credibility or innocence is unproductive and diversionary, the electorate will decide her fate which I believe is best. Let the people speak and for sure you’ll get a deafening “back off Gloria!” Of course given the current administration’s savy for political maneuvering, it is not at all baseless to anticipate a move to perpetuate power. The opposition has learned bitter lessons in not preparing and not anticipating the opponents’ moves in the past.
I am speaking as a tax payer and a leader who is concerned about the future of my company, it employees and their dependents. I have my bouts of wishful thinking, but mostly I’m much too engrossed with the bottomline.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:20 am
Titillating, Engeng
Being in sales and marketing for the whole part of my professional life and dealing with both government and private clientele, I believe I’ve seen a lot and I’m too old not to notice the stench. I posted this earlier this afternoon, I hope it gives you an insight into government biddings and how no one is ever caught, but you know its there, you just can’t prove it.
Bribery in private and especially government biddings is almost impossible to prove. Shamefully, I dabbled a little bit in the past, you don’t leave a trail, no signed vouchers for bribe money and commissions, purely cash, you deliver the goods to the house of the official, no transactions in the office. If you really need to use ATM, deposit in the wife’s or relatives bank account, no checks. Of course as smoke can never be hidden, there’s a trail of stink, but thats about it, good luck building a case based on “talk.†It only becomes a problem once one of the parties involved, the briber and the bribee testifies and comes up with a paper trail, other than that its just dismissed easily as heresay. My favorite quotation at that time †The Devil’s greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn’t exist.†– JIM CAROLL
I was young and foolish and I thought being a “devil†was cool and the “good guys†the ones who play fair are PUSHOVERS, dorks, and yes, nerds, who remain virgins because they lacked the guts to cross the line every now and then to live the good life.
I grew up… In my old age I realized the folly of materialism, you can’t take it with you. Unfortunately for us, there’s a new generation of “devils†now and an old generation that refused to grow up.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:23 am
ramrod,
GMA is not a disgraced leader.
Disgraced are those who throws accusations but do not have a single shred of evidence to prove them.
Disgraced are those who use constitutionally mandated measures, such as impeachment, as an instrument to inflict political damage and vendetta.
Disgraced are those who capitalize on issues to boost their bid for 2010.
Disgraced are those who oppose but can offer no alternative but have themselves put in power.
Disgraced are those who fool other people in thinking they can eliminate our problems by having the current leader removed.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:27 am
ramrod, if were talking about command responsibility, then gma might be held accountable. another aspect is to pinpoint those under her who are accountable themselves.
in the legal context though, i don’t think that the opposition much more anybody has enough to convict her. unlike erap where in insider like chavit spilled the beans, unless this happens in gma’s camp then she might be tried in court after her term. that is, if the next president it not a gma ally.
there isn’t a shortage of leaders, true. the questions are: where are they? are they willing to serve the public? most of those who have credibility and integrity are in the private sector but convincing them to serve the public might just be suicide for them.
the issue on responsible voting and enlightened voting might be farfetched if we look at the demographics of the voters. a good number of voters still rely on media mileage, on tit-for-tat voting, for patronage voting, and for money.
i will say this again, quite easy to allege, quite hard to prove. this is that usual case of the opposition and those anti-gma. gma has her good points and not-so-good points. yet the opposition is committing blunder after blunder. nobody at this point has the rallying charisma to rally the people (for those who want gma out). it’s just not there no matter how some people wants to force the issue. it simply isn’t there, either yet or let’s wait for 2010.
even yourself have your own concerns more than the concern on all these political noise. at the end of the day, what are the priorities of the filipino people? at the end of the day, what matters most to most filipinos? have you tried to ask your subordinates, what do they think about the present political situation in the philippines?
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:28 am
If you ever held any management position you will understand what I mean. Even the hint of impropriety is not acceptable. The honorable way to handle it is to face your stakeholders (in this case the people) and ask them bluntly if they still have the confidence in you, if not then its time to go.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:31 am
ramrod,
“All evil comes from the old.They grow fat on ideas and young men die of them.” – Jean Anouilh
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:38 am
ramrod, mind you corruption does not happen alone in government but also in private corporations. i’m pretty sure you know how purchasers/buyers connive with end-users either to fasten the use of goods or to favor certain suppliers. i know this for a fact and by experience. you are faced with the dilemma of having more sales to sustain your company and be able to pay compensation to your employees or toe the line, you end up downsizing and people lose jobs and it’s a ripple effect not only to the person but to their families.
in the case of government corruption, the strengthening of bids and acquisitions procedures, monitoring and surveillance thru oversight functions, and of course law enforcement would have a big impact on minimizing since these things cannot be completely eradicated.
there are certain realities that we need to face head on. either take the heat of get out of the kitchen. these are some of the hard decisions people make. i still believe in the goodwill of gma yet i do believe that some of her line agency people are the ones pulling her down, her husband and son mikey, and some other people.
gone were the days when young people become the future. now, even young politicians have learned to play the game very early and it’s a saddening sight.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:39 am
ramrod,
These are quotes befitting your idols in the opposition:
“Liars are always most disposed to swear.” -
Vittorio Alfieri
“Liars need to have good memories. ”
Algernon Sidney
Bencard on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:41 am
tililing and engeng, the “hate gloria” club has their own version of “truth” that needs no proper evidence, genuine witnesses, or otherwise admissible under established rules. theories, speculations, surmises, innuendos, gossips, are good enough for them. see, some senators were elected on the basis of anti-gloria polemics that are long on accusations but are short, very short, in substantiation. we have an irresponsible media and a gullible and pushover electorate to thank for it.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:44 am
ramrod,
Do you know why despite your claims that people no longer want GMA, and GMA remains in power?
Its because those who present themselves as alternatives are far WORSE.
Its simple, the people does not want a pot as an alternative to the kettle.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:50 am
“tililing and engeng, the “hate gloria†club has their own version of “truth†that needs no proper evidence, genuine witnesses, or otherwise admissible under established rules. theories, speculations, surmises, innuendos, gossips, are good enough for them. see, some senators were elected on the basis of anti-gloria polemics that are long on accusations but are short, very short, in substantiation. we have an irresponsible media and a gullible and pushover electorate to thank for it.” bencard
i can say that they have elevated rumor-mongering into a profession in itself (the hate gloria club, as you termed it, i like the term). it’s a full blown profession.
kindergarten – intensive training on hearsay
elementary – intensive training on scuttlebutt
high school – intensive training on blabbermouth
BS (bachelor of science) in rumor-mongering
BA (bachelor of arts) in gossiping
MS (master of science) in tall tales
MA (master of arts) in allegations
PhD (philosophy doctor) in bullshit
dismaying
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:51 am
bencard,
I totally agree with you.
These groups (the “hate gloria club”) have a classic tunnel vision syndrome. Their actions are trigerred by mere gossips, not minding if true or not.
Trillanes, Cayetano and Escudero were beneficiaries of the club. They preyed on GMA, and sure enough people saw them as “heroes” when in reality, nothing but big mouths.
I LOVE GMA.
Members of the “hate gloria club”.. mock me please.
Diego K. Guerrero on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:51 am
House Speaker Jose De Venecia should also investigate the alleged P500,000 early Christmas gift from Malacanang. Is this bribe money? They should change the welcome sign of the Batasan Pambansa into: WELCOME TO BATASAN PROSTITUTA! These GMA tongressmen deserve it. Puta na tuta pa.
justice in waiting on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:52 am
“The question: CAN THOSE ACCUSATIONS BE BACKED UP BY SOLID AND IRREPUTABLE EVIDENCE?”
How often we read or heard this kind of reasoning or rebuttal? The media and the oppositions (every functional democracy should need a robust media and the loyal oppositions) can only make allegations and allegations not proven in court of law is just that, allegations. But in a truly working democracy where Justice System is not perverted, allegations as serious as anomalous deals, secret commissions, and bribery should be taken seriously by the administration and investigated thoroughly by the proper authorities to establish that they are just nothing but allegations without merit. But if the administration will just dismiss them, with the same oft repeated lines as “show us the proof or file charges”, then the observer has a choice to believe either side. And I believe and a lot of others that the allegation of Corruptions by this current administration, is without doubt had been happening and it is still going on without let-up. the evidence is the country is in the tail-end among its neighbors, despite the more than 12 Billions of remittances, billions collected in taxes, and with the budget of 1 point something Trillions the infrastructure is comparable to the failed states countries, the Gap between the Elites and the Wealthy few and the majority of the masses is getting wider, so many people live on less than the equivalent of $2 a day, health care is something slightly better than nothing and its public education is a shame compared with the rest in the region. now, where did all the billions and the trillions go?? let me know if someone figure it out and you can start looking at the Bank accounts of our Elected leaders, our public servants in BIR, CUSTOMS AND just about every segment of government, locally and in foreign countries, their shares in Big Businesses, using dummies, and before you go, the businessmen who have a “good” connection with government officials and their tax filings, but then again, they can always say “show me the evidence”…the guilty favorite line of defense and it works most of the time….
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:52 am
“there are certain realities that we need to face head on. either take the heat of get out of the kitchen. these are some of the hard decisions people make. i still believe in the goodwill of gma yet i do believe that some of her line agency people are the ones pulling her down, her husband and son mikey, and some other people”
I have a colleague who is very close to GMA, as in confidante (women stuff). She’s saying the same thing as you are. Don’t get me wrong GMA has all the characteristics I’ve been looking for in a president since Marcos, she’s not a trapo, she’s a brilliant economist, a conscientious manager, and her confidence and eloquence makes her even a good salesman. Unfortunately, she is not able to hold the organization together, corruption has gone unchecked, and she simply cannot command the respect the position needs. Her position naturally puts her in a bad situation. The Philippines is not an easy country to handle, it needs a strong leader, and one who is not beholden to anyone or any group. So whether she is guilty or not, she’s still responsible for the failure and success of her administration.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:55 am
The worst kind are the “I HATE ANY PRESIDENT” club.
Its founder is somewhere in Europe, and its spokespersons are in congress.
You often see them singing together “ibon man may layang lumipad”, and flaunting their clenched fist symbol.
tililing, would you lend me your PLASMA CONVERTER? I really need to make compost.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:56 am
“I have a colleague who is very close to GMA, as in confidante (women stuff). She’s saying the same thing as you are. Don’t get me wrong GMA has all the characteristics I’ve been looking for in a president since Marcos, she’s not a trapo, she’s a brilliant economist, a conscientious manager, and her confidence and eloquence makes her even a good salesman. Unfortunately, she is not able to hold the organization together, corruption has gone unchecked, and she simply cannot command the respect the position needs. Her position naturally puts her in a bad situation. The Philippines is not an easy country to handle, it needs a strong leader, and one who is not beholden to anyone or any group. So whether she is guilty or not, she’s still responsible for the failure and success of her administration.” ramrod
2010 or earlier?
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:58 am
“we have an irresponsible media and a gullible and pushover electorate to thank for it.”
Bencard, I see you have disassociated yourself again from the Filipinos, did you also give up your citizenship? If you did, I will understand your bitterness…
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:01 am
Justice in waiting,
†The Devil’s greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn’t exist.†– JIM CAROLL
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:05 am
Its getting late, again thank you a very interesting exchange. Tililing, I’d rather you changed your name to Titillating (its more appropriate), Engeng, probably to Brenda, LOL.
Goodnight, goodnight, parting is such sweet sorrow…
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:06 am
justice in waiting,
The administration may be dismissing it but the fact remains that the accusers always FAIL TO COME UP WITH ANY EVIDENCE.
I don’t say irregularities and corruption are indeed happening. But making such serious allegations have a very negative IMPACT on our economy.
The accusers just sit down and relax while they wait if their tactics worked, but the full effect of their actions are felt by the majority.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:08 am
“our public servants in BIR, CUSTOMS AND just about every segment of government, locally and in foreign countries, their shares in Big Businesses, using dummies, and before you go, the businessmen who have a “good†connection with government officials and their tax filings, but then again, they can always say “show me the evidenceâ€â€¦the guilty favorite line of defense and it works most of the time”
This actually works all the time…
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:13 am
Diego K. Guerero,
Is that your real name? Sounds like a red pseudonym. hahahahahahaha
“Puta na tuta pa.” Tsk tsk tsk. Pathetic to hear such words from supposedly educated people. That’s why all you anti-GMA groups fail to win the hearts of people.
Are you missing some genes lately? I can help you get it back. We’ll get some cheap X and Y chromosomes in Divisoria. .. hahahahahahahaha
justice in waiting on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:14 am
“This actually works all the time…” ramrod
Except a very few in the hit list…
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:14 am
“I don’t say irregularities and corruption are indeed happening. But making such serious allegations have a very negative IMPACT on our economy.”
Engeng, the media’s effect on the economy is not that much, in fact because of their dogged pursuit of transparency, investors and businessmen are more confident that these corrupt politicians will think twice. On the other hand MISMANAGEMENT OF FUNDS will most definitely send our economy spiralling downwards, most especially MALVERSATION. Now even in the private sector this is almost impossible to prove, but you only look at the bottomline – why are we always in the red?
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:21 am
“How often we read or heard this kind of reasoning or rebuttal? The media and the oppositions (every functional democracy should need a robust media and the loyal oppositions) can only make allegations and allegations not proven in court of law is just that, allegations. But in a truly working democracy where Justice System is not perverted, allegations as serious as anomalous deals, secret commissions, and bribery should be taken seriously by the administration and investigated thoroughly by the proper authorities to establish that they are just nothing but allegations without merit. But if the administration will just dismiss them, with the same oft repeated lines as “show us the proof or file chargesâ€, then the observer has a choice to believe either side. And I believe and a lot of others that the allegation of Corruptions by this current administration, is without doubt had been happening and it is still going on without let-up. the evidence is the country is in the tail-end among its neighbors, despite the more than 12 Billions of remittances, billions collected in taxes, and with the budget of 1 point something Trillions the infrastructure is comparable to the failed states countries, the Gap between the Elites and the Wealthy few and the majority of the masses is getting wider, so many people live on less than the equivalent of $2 a day, health care is something slightly better than nothing and its public education is a shame compared with the rest in the region. now, where did all the billions and the trillions go?? let me know if someone figure it out and you can start looking at the Bank accounts of our Elected leaders, our public servants in BIR, CUSTOMS AND just about every segment of government, locally and in foreign countries, their shares in Big Businesses, using dummies, and before you go, the businessmen who have a “good†connection with government officials and their tax filings, but then again, they can always say “show me the evidenceâ€â€¦the guilty favorite line of defense and it works most of the time….” justice in waiting
the boon and the bane of a democracy. it’s strongest link can be it’s weakest link. just look at the guilty beyond reasonable doubt clause, it can mean two things: it can acquit those who are really innocent (for lack of evidence) and it can acquit those who are guilty (by the mere cloud of doubt in the proceedings and evidence).
i do think that it’s hard to do internal investigations since there would always be the possibility of a whitewash. the very reason the government has checks and balances. all these years, what happened to all the house investigations and senate investigations on all sorts of scandals/anomalies/corruption allegations?
amidst all the media hype and media mileage, where cases filed? where charges filed in court. mind you, we are talking here of the full resources of a branch of government doing investigations. how much taxpayer’s money was spent on all these? where are the committee reports? are they accessible to public?
after all, the judiciary can only move when cases are already with them. they don’t have investigative and prosecutorial powers as these functions lie in law enforcement agencies and the dept. of justice (prosecution service).
ofw dollars is a big big help the reason i am advocating for a special rate on ofw’s in foreign exchange. imagine, usd 1000 = php 50,000 and now it’s only php 44,000. php 6thousand pesos for a family is quite a hefty sum (this can be allocated for a lot of other things)
could you expound on the infrastructure issue? please give a comparison of a failed state infrastructure and the philippine infrastructure. as far as my travels from batanes to basilan, i think there are some improvements in road conditions even in the provinces.
i am for the detailed filing of salary and expenditures of all legislators, cabinet level secretaries, head of bureaus, directors for different line agencies. these should be made public all the time. all their saln.
let’s try to settle the issue one at a time.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:22 am
ramrod,
The problem becomes artificially magnified when such allegation comes. We already have to contend with our image of a very corrupt country. Its a matter of perception. And perception is enough to have a drastic effect.
I thought you were sleeping already? hahahahahaha
Note: I don’t like Brenda. But just for you, i’ll be BRENDA next week. Tililing will be………
still tililing…..
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:27 am
engeng, time to go for bed. need to wake up early tomorrow for the mass. some spiritual renewal for the dark force in us.
Bencard on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:32 am
ramrod, saying there is an irresponsible media, and a gullible and pushover electorate, is light years away from “disassociating” myself from the filipinos unless this kind of media and electorate comprise the entire filipino nation. yes, i’m still a citizen (and i hope i’m not treated second class for being a dual citizen), and i care.
btw, i think “command responsibility” is only appropriate where the commander has absolute power over the people he/she rules. an example you would probably appreciate is that of yamashita who could order his troops to commit or not commit barbarism and atrocities on unarmed civilians and prisoners of war, and not questioned or disobeyed by subordinates. marcos had some form of absolute power as a dictator. so was hitler, stalin, pol pot, idi amin, saddam, castro, milosovich, etc., etc.
pgma is president of a democratic, constitutional society where rule of law is supreme. she may be powerful but not that powerful as to have absolute dominion over everyone that has anything to do with her government. she has no power even to summarily fire an allegedly corrupt janitor, put him in jail, let alone execute him without due process of law. she has no power to disregard the requirements of the law.
unless she is given absolute powers, she should not be put to the “command responsibility” standard, i think.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:35 am
bencard & ramrod, night.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:36 am
ok, that’s good tililing.
I guess i’ll be having my rest for now.
Mr. bencard and ramrod, thanks for the time well spent on exchanging thoughts and views. Looking forward to doing it again.
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:47 am
I thought you were Muslim? You converted yesterday?
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:02 am
“I thought you were Muslim? You converted yesterday?” cvj
i’ll be converted tomorrow. so, you’re not only a prostitute, you’re also tsismosa, ewwwww
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:02 am
cvj,
tililing sa quite flexible.
She’s a catholic on Sundays.
On Fridays, she’s a muslim.
On Saturdays, she’s a sabadista.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:06 am
cvj,
Just between the 2 of us, tililing is also an Iglesia on Thursdays.
hahahahahahaha
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:06 am
cvj, i change my religion as i change my t-shirt
so what is it to you, tsismosa?
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:11 am
tililing,
I thought you already nailed cvj.
Kinds of cvj are sure slippery. Must be from excessive gossiping.
hahahahahahaha
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:14 am
engeng, upon reading that i already said night, he thought, i already logged off. the usual hit and run tactic. nailed him again. this time it’s size 5 bronze nails.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:17 am
tililing,
excellent. The likes of cvj are very easy to nail.
You just have to flush them out. All you need to do is make them think you already turned your back.
hahahahahahahaha
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:17 am
Tililing, you know that’s the disadvantage of lying. You have to have a good memory.
BTW, Engeng you should have met Bibeth (or as Manolo calls her, ‘Bibith’) last week. You have the same laugh.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:18 am
“Tililing, you know that’s the disadvantage of lying. You have to have a good memory.
BTW, Engeng you should have met Bibeth (or as Manolo calls her, ‘Bibith’) last week. You have the same laugh.” cvj
so what are the advantages of being a tsismosa?
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:21 am
“BTW, Engeng you should have met Bibeth (or as Manolo calls her, ‘Bibith’) last week. You have the same laugh.” cvj
you really are tsismosa, aren’t you?
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:22 am
cvj,
I like to laugh like somebody else.. especially when laughing at YOU
hahahahahahaha
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:29 am
Guys guys (includng those who thnk they’re not guys)
Why make a big fuss about GMA?
We already have many pressing problems to deal with.
C’mon.. just laugh it all out.
You can laugh like bibeth if you want.
hahahahahahahaha
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:31 am
engeng, need to rest. just lookout for cvj’s houserat hit and run tactic, he’s quite fond of it. i got tired being an iglesia on thursdays, muslim on friday, sabadista on saturdays and tomorrow, i’m a catholic.
engeng on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:34 am
tililing,
I will look our for cvj.
I’ll lay some sticky fly paper around. Even his slippery feet won’t be able to free him.
hahahahahaha
justice in waiting on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:43 am
“it can acquit those who are really innocent (for lack of evidence) and it can acquit those who are guilty (by the mere cloud of doubt in the proceedings and evidence).”
Truly innocent are not just acquitted, they are declared innocent and compensated for the injuries caused. and that is justice as I know it.
And when i’m talking about justice system, it starts from a police investigating allegations and complaints, dispensing all necessary investigative tools, including forensic experts, accountants and lawyers to gather evidence, and with the public prosecutors may decide if there is sufficient evidence to lay charges before the proper court..
Senate and other commissions investigations and inquiries are for the purpose of finding where the systems fail and finding solutions, not a part of the justice system, and in reality evidence uncovered in these investigations can not be used in subsequent criminal cases, unless for the crime of perjury for lying before the inquiries or investigations.
Infrastructure as I noted, is in comparison to the appropriation allotted for them, but not utilized.. When you traveled from batanes to basilan you mostly transversed on already established highways and roadways, try going into the interior of municipalities and barangays and you can swim on their roads. some town folks somewhere even planted bananas in the middle of the roads to protest and that was in a major town. And these are dispites of the Billions alloted for them and checked as done…
As for the OFW the currency exchange is floating and as the u.s. dollar is weakening and the peso is getting stronger, it should have been reflected on the cost of goods, but did you see them going down? and you are wondering why..
“i am for the detailed filing of salary and expenditures of all legislators, cabinet level secretaries, head of bureaus, directors for different line agencies. these should be made public all the time. all their saln.”
Detailed filing of salary and expenditures would not mean a hoot if their sources are illegal, there is no way of finding where the other income coming from bribery, discretionary slush funds, kickbacks, and expenditures can always be padded. What we really need is an impartial auditors and investigators to trace where the dough is going, to relatives, to dummies, (the pidals, and what the other name used by erap?) and even to the concubines (mistresses and lovers).
This all is beyond doubt as you and I will agree is very hard to eliminate or minimize. But if the top leader of the land will show the way, instead of spending her time docking all the allegations and accusations thrown towards her and the people sorrounding her (and why this is so?, that in other countries least corrupt is not happening, and remember, this country of ours is perceived to be numero uno). so in the end, i still believe there is a ring of truth to some if not all of these allegations, regardless of the “rule of law”.
taxpayer on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 5:50 am
justice in waiting,
:“What we really need is an impartial auditors and investigators to trace where the dough is going,â€
What do you think of a an anti-graft budgetary measure such as An automatic Appropriations Law for the Budget of the Commission on Audit, Office of the Ombudsman and the Civil Service Commission, pegging the allocation at 1% of Total budget?
These are three constitutional bodies. Among themselves they undertake tripartite anti-graft programs. They must be given the resources commensurate and proportionate to the task. As the total budget is increased so is their task.
These agencies must be given the funds to acquire the manpower and resources needed to attack the problem of corruption vigilantly, preventively, effectively, consistently and sustainably. They need the best auditors, lawyers, investigators who are given the best anti-graft know-how, trained here and abroad, and armed with the best equipment available.
An Automatic Appropriations Act for Anti-graft Constitutional Agencies provides for a budget adjustment mechanism that insulates and protects the independence and capability building capacities of these agencies from political manipulation and beurocratic red-tape.
The rationale for anti-graft budget approriated as a percentage of total budget is simple. As the total budget is increased and as losses due to graft and corrupt practices remain a percentage of total budget, the scope and volume of work of anti-graft agencies also increases.
Assuming a total budget of P1T. Losses due to g & c at min 20% of total budget is 200B, anti-graft budget at 1% is 10B. The ratio of anti-graft investment to the amount lost to g&c is 1 is to 20. The potential rate of return on investment justifies the proportionate increase in anti-graft budget. For every peso of anti-graft budget allocated, 20 of total budget are potentially saved. For every peso of graft case that is successfully prosecuted, 20 are potentially deterred.
The current total budget of the three anti-graft agencies is less than 1B. Why should their budget be at the mercy of public officials whose interest is in conflict with their mandate?
When Ombudsman Marcelo resigned one reason is that he was frustrated with the lack of resources and manpower to takle the job. Budget then, I don’t remember details, was increased from 135M, up by 45M ,to around 170M. I do not have details on COA and CSC. I’m sure you can present this better in venues more available to you, which I’m hoping you will.
Thanks, btw, for your enlightening comments.
taxpayer on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 6:02 am
corrction:
An Automatic Appropriations for the Budget of Anti-graft Constitutional Agencies Act provides for a budget adjustment mechanism that is insulated from political manipulation and beurocratic red-tape, protects the independence and strengthens and capacity-bulding capabilities of the Commision on Audit, Office of the Ombudsman and the Civil Service Commission.
Dirk Pitt on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:30 am
the “love gloria, adore gloria†club has their own version of “accomplishments and virtues†that need no proper evidence, genuine witnesses, or otherwise admissible under established rules. spins,framings,theories, numbers,propagandas, surmises, innuendos, gossips, are good enough for them. see, some pro-gloria senators were elected on the basis of strong peso (millions) that are spent on campaign ads but are short, very short, in substance. we have an irresponsible media (some paid hacks) and a gullible and pushover “let’s move on crowd” to thank for it.
Bencard on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:57 am
justice in waiting & taxpayer, your proposals might just work. if feasible, i would add annual automatic appropriation for each province for local projects that have economic impact, in amounts in proportion to its population regardless of its aggregate income. the objective is to eliminate the pork barrel system and by-pass congressional pandering that favors legislators who are close to the admini9stration, while equitably distributing government funds without favoritism.
all these ideas would require a government restructuring that would necessitate a major revision to our existing constitution. it’s an uphill battle.the enemies of change, particularly those who benefit the most from the status quo could, as we have seen recently, produce bogey men to instill paranoia among the populace. these beneficiaries of a flawed system usually have unlimited resources to mislead and misinform the vulnerable masses. the most vociferous critics of government such as the media and the clergy, among other interest groups both in the business sector and bureaucracy, not to mention the political opposition, are sometimes the biggest impediment to national progress.
Bencard on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:05 am
mlq3, do you allow blatant plagiarism in this blog? the shameless plagiarist is again on the prowl. guess he wants to play with the big boys but doesn’t have what it takes. what a pathetic creature!
Shaman of Malilipot on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:56 am
Bencard, Pampanga Gov. Ed Panlilio also admitted he was given P500,000 as he left Malacanang last Thursday.
I don’t care what they do with those who received the money. Prosecute them, if they must. But the fact is that there can be no bribe-taker if there is no bribe-giver. And GMA is the biggest bribe-giver of them all.
C’mon, Bencard, don’t act like a naive person, because I know you’re not. The main purpose of GMA’s cha-cha through what the Supreme Court called a “fraudulent” people’s initiative (how’s that for the rule of law?) was to change the form of government to do away with GMA’s term limit (changing the constitution to allow the president to stay in power was a tested Marcos-style tactic). As I’ve said, I’m not against cha-cha after GMA leaves office.
I don’t worry about a future scoundrel. I’ll deal with him/her if and when he/she comes. For now, I just want to deal with the present scoundrel.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:49 am
“the “love gloria, adore gloria†club has their own version of “accomplishments and virtues†that need no proper evidence, genuine witnesses, or otherwise admissible under established rules. spins,framings,theories, numbers,propagandas, surmises, innuendos, gossips, are good enough for them. see, some pro-gloria senators were elected on the basis of strong peso (millions) that are spent on campaign ads but are short, very short, in substance. we have an irresponsible media (some paid hacks) and a gullible and pushover “let’s move on crowd†to thank for it.”
Touche dark pitt!
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:22 pm
“unless she is given absolute powers, she should not be put to the “command responsibility†standard, i think.”
Bencard, I don’t know much about policies regarding government employees, maybe its a lot different from where I come from. From experience, in my fromer company, our President resigned because the EVP/GM, who happened to be his protege, was embroiled in bribery, malversation of funds, and several money related issues. Several other key executives close to the EVP also resigned. This president was even a good one and I believe had nothing to do with all these issues. There was not even a need for a legal process. The way I see it, if you occupy a position of critical responsibility, any hint of impropriety is not tolerated. You may fight it out with high paying lawyers to legally show that you’re innocent but in the end its a matter of again, honor or “delicadeza” in our context. You ask your stakeholders point blank if they still have confidence in you and if the answer is “no” by all means SCRAM.
The “gullible electorate” that you were referring to includes ME and if you voted, you too, and if ever there was such a thing as REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLING, you’d see that the electorate is a fairly accurate representation of the Filipino people so “voila!” if you insult this group you are insulting the whole.
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:47 pm
Ramrod, command responsibility like delicadeza (as mentioned by Manolo above) is an informal code. In healthier organizations (like your company), these codes are what allows the system to continue working. In healthier political systems (like in democratic Japan), we have seen the recent resignation of their Prime Minister on the same principle of command responsibility. Over here, lawyers and GMA supporters like Bencard would have us believe that the only valid code is the legal code (or that the legal code trumps all other codes). Given the complexity of modern societies, that’s no longer the case. Of course, in a society where the law serves those who have power, this is a convenient arrangement.
BTW, i don’t think ‘Karah’ and ‘Bibeth’ ever left.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:50 pm
“all these ideas would require a government restructuring that would necessitate a major revision to our existing constitution. it’s an uphill battle.”
Who would you think will be the first people we will need to remove in this restructuring as it will most definitely come to that – organizational restructuring? Let me guess, all the opposition, retain GMA and company, this way we will have an unhampered STRONG REPUBLIC.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 12:54 pm
cvj,
I knew there was something strange about those two new names, very much related to each other, very cohesive, with a consistently singular position (consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds). Witty and cute in a BIPOLAR kind of way…
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:07 pm
cvj,
Manolo posted a very interesting topic “The Strangest Dictator” check it out. I believe this is very relevant in the search for leaders and I had this weird impression that Quezon has several similarities with Lee Kuan Yew. You would know better how to frame it.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:31 pm
“a gullible and pushover “let’s move on crowd†to thank for it.dark pitt”
There are always people on the wrong side of history or always on the “winning side” .lol
Example:”Ronaldo Puno is arguably one of the most successful campaign managers in Philippine politics. He supported the presidential bids of eventual winners:Ferdinand Marcos, Fidel Ramos, Joseph Estrada, and Gloria Macapagal Arroyo.”
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:52 pm
Example:â€Ronaldo Puno is arguably one of the most successful campaign managers in Philippine politics. He supported the presidential bids of eventual winners:Ferdinand Marcos, Fidel Ramos, Joseph Estrada, and Gloria Macapagal Arroyo.â€
MAV, this Ronaldo Puno guy is my new idol, I’m a born again christian and you know what we do with idols.
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:52 pm
Ramrod, i think Quezon was similar to Lee Kuan Yew in his belief in a one-party government (which he terms as ‘no-party’ goverment. As per Marquardt:
He was different from LKY in that he believed in democratic deliberation:
In Singapore, they have ‘Out of Bounds’ (OB) markers that cover political expression. Also, if Quezon were anything like LKY, then Manolo would now be President (or President-in-waiting)instead of earning a living by being a journalist/teacher/historian and blogger. If anything, maybe Quezon was more like Mahathir (although Osmena had it better than Anwar).
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 1:58 pm
Ni hao ma cvj
No sign yet of our bipolar friends
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:06 pm
“this Ronaldo Puno guy is my new idol, I’m a born again christian and you know what we do with idols.ramrod”
He knows something we don’t know about winning elections.Nest time we should join his election seminars in sulo hotel”How to surely win elections in the Philippines at any cost!”
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:07 pm
I believe the problems of our country will continue beyond GMA and it started before GMA’s presidency. To be fair, we cannot blame GMA for all the problems we have today but we can criticize her for some of the problems mainly because she is on the “driver’s seat”.If she is not involved in any malfeasance or misfeasance then she should do everything possible within the ambit of her constitutional powers to stop it. I think this is where the bulk of the criticisms and flak against GMA should be focused, her nonfeasance to say the least.
On the other hand, we should always be circumspect, objective and fair about our criticisms against GMA or any president for that matter. A lot of our problems will outlive GMA’s presidency and who knows how many presidents more. I hope we will not metamorphosed into a “hate all presidents” (as eng mentioned).
I think GMA knows that criticisms comes with the territory ( though it is excessively abused by a lot of people). I hope she had not forgotten that she is “on the driver’s seat”.
President Harry S. Truman kept a sign on his desk that read, “The buck stops here.â€
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:11 pm
Ramrod, ni hao ma. They must be exhausted defending the indefensible. Regarding ‘dictators’, i have no issue against ’strong’ leaders, but i believe that allowing deliberation and opposition is a sign of strength. The problem is, many seem to believe that fear of opposition is a sign of strength rather than insecurity.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:11 pm
ramrod:Enjoy what’s left of the weekend!
ps:what’s your blog site all about?lol
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:18 pm
cvj:. Ni hao ! Frankly we don’t have a political opposition in this country(i.e,no principled opposition).It’s not like Republicans versus Democrats or Labour versus Conservatives.
What we have is always the “INs versus the OUTs”!
What’s the difference of GMA/Enrile/Defensor Santiago/Puno
versus Villar/Cayetano/Madrigal/Lacson?
Answer:Nada!
WE ,the people, are the opposition!
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:18 pm
MAV,
I don’t have a blog site, thats my company’s website in the meantime. I’m what you call technology impaired, I’ve been trying to make my own blogsite and so far I haven’t been successful. But you know, like many gullible Filipinos, I keep trying…
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:21 pm
MAV, very true.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:28 pm
This could very well be our song now!
Les Miserables
Do You Hear The People Sing
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Somewhere beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free!!
All
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France!
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
taxpayer on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:34 pm
bencard, justice in waiting,
:”annual automatic appropriation for each province for local projects that have economic impact, in amounts in proportion to its POPULATION REGARDLESS of its aggregate income”
1)”to eliminate the pork barrel system”
2)”to equitably distribute government funds”
Your proposed allotment scheme complements suggestions to abolish the lower house of congress or to devolve its functions to lgu’s where representatives of city and provincial councils who shall take over the district representatives’ legislative functions shall hold offices in the lgu’s and shall be called to congress (batasan) only as needed. The pork barrel system thereby is also rendered not applicable. In place of that is a more equitable scheme as you proposed that also supplements the Internal Revenue Allotment that is revenue based.
Thanks
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:39 pm
“WE ,the people, are the opposition!”
The way I see it, the senatorial elections was our way of showing distrust for the current administration. It appears that GMA’s endorsement has become a “kiss of death.”
Come to think of it, how many people exactly voted for the opposition candidates? This same number could trump any move for this administration to hold on to power via the ballot if ever.
Mav, what do we have about Villar? So far I heard he came from the masa, a self-made man, doesn’t look like a trapo.
cvj, actually Quezon achieved more than what was mentioned in the essay, in the book “Closer than Brothers” Al Mcoy mentioned that he prevented the landed Oligarchs from playing a role in the establishment of the Philippine military a big difference from the time of Aguinaldo (a major step in the right direction even at the time).
In terms of freedom of speech, “he allowed his critics to attack his personal honesty, private morals, and government record with absolute impunity.”
As for independence of the judiciary “the SC always had the power to declare any of his “pet laws” unconstitutional.”
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:44 pm
If things will work according to plan, I think GMA will not have a problem regarding the “betrayal of public trust” contained in the recently initiated impeachment complaint at least for one year. I think her problem is the “erosion of public trust” .
pete on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:51 pm
qwert,
Petite GMA has so many big problems “erosion of public trust” had been one of them since 2001. It’s not eroded it had collpased at -11%, that’s 11 below 0. so what’s there to erode?
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:51 pm
ramrod:
Right after the elections,Villar,Cayetano,Escudero and Jinggoy aligned with administration senators to form the “majority bloc”.As a result,Enrile,Santiago,Gordon and Angara retained their key committee chairmanships.
Villar and company virtually ignored the will of the people to have an opposition-controlled Senate.
justice in waiting on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 2:56 pm
“To be fair, we cannot blame GMA for all the problems we have today but we can criticize her for some of the problems mainly because she is on the “driver’s seat qwert
qwert, being in the driver seat is a Big Responsibility. you will be responsible bringing your passengers to their destination safely and without untoward incidents along the way. Of course having more than 80 millions passengers is kind of hard and some others will complain even the way a driver moves her hands, but also she can not play favourites among her passengers like someone extorting from others, stealing other passengers baggages and some even disappearing along the journey (the political killings and the disappearance).
And since it is usually a long journey, with the driver on the wheels for at least 6 years, the food should also be preserved and fairly shared among the passengers. But in this case our President is obviously giving more of the provisions to her Generals, to her Cronies, and the very people who made her the driver, like that SC chief who is now on diplomatic mission even over the age and if you are also aware, there are a lot of her relatives, like his brother in law iggy,(was he the jose pidal?) who is now a very wealthy man while hopping along in a matter of few years. And God knows how many more, like Abalos who was alleged to have made a lot in all the deals he had brokered and up to this day, she won’t not even dare kick them out of her “Bus”.
And as Taxpayers and as passengers in the Journey we can not only critisize the driver, but also make sure that she does her job “constitutionally” (even though there are doubts if she has the job constitutionally in the first place) and if not to ask her to hand it to her assitant, and if refused, then go to the process of removing her, and that could have been impeachment, but now we know how she loves her job that again she is going to use all the money collected from her passengers and the power of the men and women who befitted on the ‘Trip”…and the power of the men and women who befitted on the ‘Trip”…to buy her way of staying on the job even maybe beyond her contract of up to 2010.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:00 pm
motivational song for the hate gma club:
(woman from la palacio)
To unseat the impeachable girl
To fight the unbeatable gal
To collude with the desperate reddies
To run where the rats dare not go
To allege the unfounded hearsays
To chat like the dogs that you are
To try yet you falter like each time
To reach the unreachable quest
That is your quest
To unseat GMA
No matter how hopeless
No matter how nil
To fight for yourselves
Without question or pause
To be willing to march to hell
Then off you go
And you know if you’ll only be true
To this futile quest
That you all got it wrong this time
When you’re laid to rest
And the world would better for this
That you first, find basis and grounds
Still strove with your dead-end assumptions
To unseat the unseatable gallllllllllllllll
pete on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:02 pm
mav,
We were on this track about search for national leaders a couple of threads back, I was leading towards a formula that could provide a refreshing change in the way of national leadership.
ramrod, Villar so far ok,
got to go, be back soon
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:07 pm
tillilling:nice song !
Hija,the problem is that angry people don’t sing that kind of song.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:10 pm
“We were on this track about search for national leaders a couple of threads back, I was leading towards a formula that could provide a refreshing change in the way of national leadership.
ramrod, Villar so far ok,
got to go, be back soon” pete
any news if villar already paid some billion pesoses he loaned from the gsis at the behest of then pres. erap?
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:11 pm
Ramrod:I think Roxas is the most promising for 2010(provided he has “spine”).
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:11 pm
“Hija,the problem is that angry people don’t sing that kind of song.” mav
a mellow motivational song.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:13 pm
engeng is also composing a new version for the itaktak mo song. you just wait.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:17 pm
Hija: try singing “Do you hear the people sing?from Les Miserables.
Heard that GMA had a wry face when she heard that song in Broadway.
That’s the the song of angry people who are sick and tired of the lies,the bribes,the scandals!
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:17 pm
justice in waiting,
To use our metaphor,I hope we will have the courage and resolve of a Rosa Parks.
pepe on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:20 pm
Bayan Ko
(updated version)
Ang bayan kong Pilipinas
Lupain ng ginto’t bulaklak
Pag-ibig ang sa kanyang palad
Nag-alay ng ganda’t dilag.
At sa kanyang yumi at ganda
SI GLORIA ay nahalina
Bayan ko, binihag NIYA
nasadlak sa dusa.
Ibon mang may layang lumipad
Kulungin mo at umiiyak
Bayan pa kayang sakdal dilag
Ang di magnasang makaalpas!
Pilipinas kong minumutya
Pugad ng luha ko’t dalita
Aking adhika,
Makita kang sakdal laya
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:20 pm
“Hija: try singing “Do you hear the people sing?from Les Miserables.
Heard that GMA had a wry face when she heard that song in Broadway.
That’s the the song of angry people who are sick and tired of the lies,the bribes,the scandals!” mav
i won’t count on the i heard thing because that’s tsismis. not unless a person who was there saw the face then maybe i’d believe that.
out of the 85million people, how many do you think are angry?
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:34 pm
qwert:I think Trillanes has that kind of courage,resolve and the intelligence.His stay in prison will help shape his leadership character.
Nelson Mandela spent 28 years at Robben Island Prison,before becoming the first black president of South Africa. Ironically he was first viewed as a ‘terrorist” by the “apartheid”government.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:42 pm
“out of the 85million people, how many do you think are angry?”
I can tell you who are NOT angry:
1)the Pidal couple
2)Daddy Chair
3)Mr.Esperon
4)Ronnie Puno
5)Miriam Defensor Santiago
6)Juan Ponce Enrile
7)Ed Angara
8)Joker Arroyo
9)Dick Gordon
10)Lolo Gonzales
Hija:in you heart of hearts,do you believe people are happy with GMA?
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 3:51 pm
“I can tell you who are NOT angry:
1)the Pidal couple
2)Daddy Chair
3)Mr.Esperon
4)Ronnie Puno
5)Miriam Defensor Santiago
6)Juan Ponce Enrile
7)Ed Angara
8)Joker Arroyo
9)Dick Gordon
10)Lolo Gonzales
Hija:in you heart of hearts,do you believe people are happy with GMA?” mav
i can only speak for myself. i can’t speak for other people because they have their own take on things. what i know is that gma has her own flaws and has her own achievements.
the question is, can you speak for people other than yourself on the gma issue?
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:01 pm
hija:what do you think of the SWS approval ratings on GMA?
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:01 pm
Tililing, i recommend you check out Randy David’s column in the Inquirer. When it comes to the matter of Gloria Arroyo, the Filipino people have achieved political, moral and social closure. What’s left is the question of legal closure which explains your line of defense.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:05 pm
“hija:what do you think of the SWS approval ratings on GMA?” mav
how many respondents from this sws ratings (how many percent of the just the voting population)? how’s the demographics? whole Philippines or manila?
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:09 pm
HIJA”Sumadsad ang satisfaction rating ni Pangulong Gloria Macapagal Arroyo sa minus 11, ang sinasabing pinakamababang natamo niya sa taong ito.
Ayon sa Social Weather Station, bumalik sa “negative rating” ang Pangulo sa isinagawa nilang survey mula Setyembre 2 hanggang 5.GMA news TV”
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:14 pm
HIJA: are people happy with GMA (minus 11 approval rating)?
Don’t question know the SWS coz the last time she got a positive rating from SWS(way back in 2001) ,she said “Of course,I’m human,I enjoy the approval of the people!”
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:15 pm
Titillating,
Snap out of your bipolar condition for a while. At the far end of your condition is a researcher, please take the number of all who voted for the opposition (total) and compute if it constitutes a representative sample of the population, which is 88.05M already by the way. GMA’s career in the Philippine civil service is as kaput as a hooker’s hymen. She should have done something to vindicate herself after the first impeachment attempt, that time she still had the support of key figures in business, military, and gullible people like me. I still believed in her after that even if my mentor JB Santos who was part of the cabinet left her. JB is the only Filipino to become CEO of Nestle Philippines, he is not known to make foolish decisions.
Whats left for us now is damage control (stop this financial hemorrhage) and start looking for new leaders whether in the current set-up or elsewhere.
This mindless, childish, behaviour is counter productive.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:19 pm
“Tililing, i recommend you check out Randy David’s column in the Inquirer. When it comes to the matter of Gloria Arroyo, the Filipino people have achieved political, moral and social closure. What’s left is the question of legal closure which explains your line of defense.” cvj
that’s who you see things. the way i see it, until now, the anti-gma forces cannot gather the necessary warm bodies to oust her may it be in the extra-constitutional way. why?
there’s no political closure yet because no impeachment has prospered and that would address the political way of disabling a president.
when it comes to the moral closure, it’s a personal thing and a case to case basis. again, i can only speak for myself and i can’t speak for others.
on the social closure, i don’t know how is this gauged.
please give me the link on randy david’s article
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:23 pm
Tililing, as requested:
http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view_article.php?article_id=94176
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:23 pm
“HIJA: are people happy with GMA (minus 11 approval rating)?
Don’t question know the SWS coz the last time she got a positive rating from SWS(way back in 2001) ,she said “Of course,I’m human,I enjoy the approval of the people!—
i have doubts in surveys because they earn when some personality or some company hire them for survey purposes that would be favorable to the patron. it’s my opinion and i can’t be convinced otherwise.
the way i see it is that, the philippines has 7,107 islands. the challenge is how to really gauge the pulse of the people. manila is not the philippines. ncr is not the philippines. and surveys always are conducted in manila. i don’t question surveys per se, i question how these surveys who have 5000 respondents reflect the sentiments of 40 million or so voters.
cvj on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:24 pm
Tililing, sent. You’ll see it once Manolo approves.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:30 pm
“that’s who you see things. the way i see it, until now, the anti-gma forces cannot gather the necessary warm bodies to oust her may it be in the extra-constitutional way. why?”
Hija:I was one of the naive people who joined EDSA 2 and helped install a GMA.Mea Culpa.I am paying for my sins.
This is the main reason why I absolutely detest now a “people power”type of change!
So stop making a body count of warm bodies who will oust her in an extra constitutional way.
But you better believe that I am very angry!
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:33 pm
“Snap out of your bipolar condition for a while. At the far end of your condition is a researcher, please take the number of all who voted for the opposition (total) and compute if it constitutes a representative sample of the population, which is 88.05M already by the way. GMA’s career in the Philippine civil service is as kaput as a hooker’s hymen. She should have done something to vindicate herself after the first impeachment attempt, that time she still had the support of key figures in business, military, and gullible people like me. I still believed in her after that even if my mentor JB Santos who was part of the cabinet left her. JB is the only Filipino to become CEO of Nestle Philippines, he is not known to make foolish decisions.
Whats left for us now is damage control (stop this financial hemorrhage) and start looking for new leaders whether in the current set-up or elsewhere.
This mindless, childish, behaviour is counter productive.” ramrod
if your line of reasoning that those who voted for the senators (which the opposition won by a big margin against the administration) would reflect support for gma is red herring. it might have an effect but you cannot equate support for different personalities to the support the president enjoys on the whole.
juan santos is his own man. whatever his reasons to leave the cabinet is his decision alone. sorry but i am not a person who would easily believe people whoever he is. we are all equal and i assess things on their own merits not because this argument or that argument comes from who knows who in what sector. why, do you think that juan santos is better than gary teves and his performance as a public servant (especially during his stint in lbp?)
let me give you an example. if you know where balamban, cebu is, gma recently went there to visit the shipyards of tsuneishi and aboitiz (those who make fast crafts). tsuneishi would be expanding their shipyard 60 hectares more and would employ around 2,000 people (translated into 2,000 family beneficiaries). since you come from the business sector, why don’t we gauge foreign investment that translates into jobs (food for people in the table) since the time of aquino until the time of gma, on a yearly basis. up to the challenge?
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:38 pm
“Hija:I was one of the naive people who joined EDSA 2 and helped install a GMA.Mea Culpa.I am paying for my sins.
This is the main reason why I absolutely detest now a “people powerâ€type of change!
So stop making a body count of warm bodies who will oust her in an extra constitutional way.
But you better believe that I am very angry!” mav
so how do you want it done this time? impeachment? resign? revolution? democracy is all about the rule of the majority so why can’t i include the numbers game. even you can only vote once. i can only vote once. so? you can only speak for yourself as i can speak for myself as well. don’t count out those other 39,999,998 votes (or so) who have their own take on things.
it’s your right to be angry. who’s stopping you to be angry? btw, what can you do to unseat gma? are you already irritated? that’s more like it.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:38 pm
Tiling,
I’ll let you in on a secret, there is a management option of “intuition” its when you don’t have to see all the facts, just enough, look at the pattern, search your management collective unconscious and move decisively. This is used when you are neck to neck with the competition that a moments hesitation will cost you your victory or when you want to avoid disabling loses. Look up John Maxwell.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:38 pm
“i question how these surveys who have 5000 respondents reflect the sentiments of 40 million or so voters.”
hija ,what do you think of the last senatorial elections where only 2 GMA endorsed candidates won( 3,if we were to include “the senator from maguindanao” )
Of course, “to one who believes no proof is needed,to one who doubts no proof is enough”
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:39 pm
“Tililing, sent. You’ll see it once Manolo approves.” cvj
ok, ty
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:42 pm
Hija:I will wait for the end of her “term” in 2010.But she better not make a mistake of prolonging her tenure for life!
I promised my young son when Marcos was banished “NEVER AGAIN”.
I swear to you I meant every word of that sacred vow to my son.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:43 pm
“I’ll let you in on a secret, there is a management option of “intuition†its when you don’t have to see all the facts, just enough, look at the pattern, search your management collective unconscious and move decisively. This is used when you are neck to neck with the competition that a moments hesitation will cost you your victory or when you want to avoid disabling loses. Look up John Maxwell.” ramrod
intuition is nothing if the decision-maker is not decisive. in business, it’s not all about intuition. what’s very important is the client-supplier relationship more than the pricing and other details. don’t complicate things with some mumbo-jumbo because i’m only a simple person and i don’t know anything about all these corporate blabber.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:45 pm
“hija ,what do you think of the last senatorial elections where only 2 GMA endorsed candidates won( 3,if we were to include “the senator from maguindanao†)
Of course, “to one who believes no proof is needed,to one who doubts no proof is enough— mav
it’s not the issue of believing or not believing. it’s the issue on convincing. my question is, is gma 100% a failure during her term? all flaws and no achievements? tell me
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:47 pm
“Hija:I will wait for the end of her “term†in 2010.But she better not make a mistake of prolonging her tenure for life!
I promised my young son when Marcos was banished “NEVER AGAINâ€.
I swear to you I meant every word of that sacred vow to my son.” mav
what will you do if she extends her term? well good for you if you keep vows and promises especially to your son.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:50 pm
Tilling,
I know very well where Balamban is, I used to play there when I was a kid, the place where they built the shipyard was my patch of forest where I hunted birds with my tirador, caught fish, crabs, and other weird sea creatures trapped during low tide, yes I know what they did to my playground. Tsuneishi, there’s an engineer there named Andrew Elumbaring, one of my traitor childhood friends working for the enemy that took away a major part of my childhood. You should see the machine oil, debris, trash, that occasionally comes out of this monstrosity. Go there now and ask them if the “mangla” a sort of crab mix with prawn whatchamacalit still exists.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:50 pm
“what will you do if she extends her term? well good for you if you keep vows and promises especially to your son.”
Hija :Will you allow GMA to extend her term beyond 2010?
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:52 pm
““what will you do if she extends her term? well good for you if you keep vows and promises especially to your son.â€
Hija :Will you allow GMA to extend her term beyond 2010?” mav
no. 2010 is enough.
eulogos on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:53 pm
Society often produces fools like Tililing and Bencard. You can talk to them all you want about right and wrong and they will try to beat you down to their level with rhetorics and spin. Let them wallow in ignorance, deliberate or not.
The time for civil discussion has long passed.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:55 pm
no. 2010 is enough.
HIJA:we have at least a point of agreement!
In the meantime,I leave with these wise words:
“There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust.” Demosthenes.
ps:Have a nice weekend!Bye now.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:57 pm
“I know very well where Balamban is, I used to play there when I was a kid, the place where they built the shipyard was my patch of forest where I hunted birds with my tirador, caught fish, crabs, and other weird sea creatures trapped during low tide, yes I know what they did to my playground. Tsuneishi, there’s an engineer there named Andrew Elumbaring, one of my traitor childhood friends working for the enemy that took away a major part of my childhood. You should see the machine oil, debris, trash, that occasionally comes out of this monstrosity. Go there now and ask them if the “mangla†a sort of crab mix with prawn whatchamacalit still exists.” ramrod
talking about environment. the company where you’re working for is more on forest industry products and by-products right? so what’s more harmful, a shipyard or a company that cuts trees?
all these industries has it’s own environmental prices to pay. i am not saying this is good but i think there are certifications on environmental compliance. there’s corporate social responsibility and community outreach. if tsuneishi is indeed violation certain environmental laws as you claim, are you willing to sue them?
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 4:58 pm
Tillingling,
I did not say that GMA was all faults and no achievements, she has achievements thats why I supported her earlier, even MAV admits to that.
Industrialization without regard for it impact on the environment is not worth it, just look at the several paper mills in China that are being systematically closed due to environmental degradation.
I know you’re a reasonable person, come on I’m extending my hand in reconciliation.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 5:01 pm
“Society often produces fools like Tililing and Bencard. You can talk to them all you want about right and wrong and they will try to beat you down to their level with rhetorics and spin. Let them wallow in ignorance, deliberate or not.
The time for civil discussion has long passed.” eulogos
wow out of nowhere like a mushroom. i think i’d rather be called a fool rather than a nincompoop like yourself. this is not a competition, it’s plain and simple discussion, if you know what that means. if i’m ignorant then what do you call yourself?
it’s the time for what now?
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 5:06 pm
“I did not say that GMA was all faults and no achievements, she has achievements thats why I supported her earlier, even MAV admits to that.
Industrialization without regard for it impact on the environment is not worth it, just look at the several paper mills in China that are being systematically closed due to environmental degradation.
I know you’re a reasonable person, come on I’m extending my hand in reconciliation.” ramrod
it’s just discussions, no hard feelings. would you like the left hand or the right hand?
i do think that philippine environmental laws are not enforced properly. people in the emb and its affiliate enforcement agencies are either inept or under the payroll of some companies. there should be mechanisms wherein large scale manufacturers should always be monitored. there aren’t actually a lot in the philippines. maybe a few thousands.
vic on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 5:15 pm
Just finished reading the Star’s articles about the release of former PM Jean Chretien memoirs (435 -page book, titled My Years as Prime Minister) and a few excerpt of what is in the memoir.
One is the matter of relevance to any government in regards to Corruptions in Government.
Before PM Chretien resigns as Party Leader, his administration was saddled with allegations of Abuse and corruptions in one of his pet projects, the Sponsorship Program in Quebec which the Auditor General has just uncovered.
And here is his recollections about the corruptions the magnitude of which happened more than one hundred years ago…please read and maybe also true to the country….and you may go to the star.com on details. It’s today’s front page…
*****
Chrétien is unrepentant as well about how he handled the transition of power to Martin, which saddled the new Liberal prime minister with releasing the explosive auditor-general’s report on abuses in the sponsorship program in Quebec. Chrétien insists that Martin let him know – through Privy Council clerk Alex Himelfarb – that he wanted to take over in late 2003, not February 2004, as Chrétien had planned. So Chrétien decided to shut down Parliament early.
“Though I had neither seen Sheila Fraser’s report nor been briefed about it, I knew, like everybody else in Ottawa, that it was going to be tough. But I didn’t prorogue Parliament because I was afraid to face it or wanted to pass it like a kiss of death to my successor. It had always been my intention to receive Fraser’s report, thank her for her good work, and say what I had been saying over and over again for a year: If there is evidence of theft or fraud, let the police catch the crooks and let the courts put them in jail.”
******
The last statement If there is evidence of Theft or Fraud, let the Police catch the crooks and let the courts put them in Jail… and they Police and the Courts Did..
And also after the criminal aspect of the case was resolved, the next PM, Paul Martin called Justice Gomery to conduct a no-bar-holds inquiry to look why the systems failed and to dig in deeper and find out even those that were not criminally involve (and there were many)and recommend solutions so the same will never happen again. And Justice Gomery made it clear to all of what really transpired, even calling the current PM and former PM Chretien (which he challenged and lost in other venues) to testify before him…and his reports is worthy of the best investigative inquiry there is, and his recommendations which has not been put into legislation yet will surely make sure that the same will not happen again for maybe more than another hundred years…. try the process and it really works, anywhere and in any situation….
vic on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 5:25 pm
sorry it should be “thestar.com” and clik the toronto star.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 7:00 pm
“i do think that philippine environmental laws are not enforced properly. people in the emb and its affiliate enforcement agencies are either inept or under the payroll of some companies. there should be mechanisms wherein large scale manufacturers should always be monitored. there aren’t actually a lot in the philippines. maybe a few thousands.”
You said it, I spent years pushing for paper and board food packaging, the plastic people seem to have very strong lobbyists at their disposal. Taiwan doesn’t use the styropor packaging anymore, and so do other developing countries. We have environmental laws but they seem to have no teeth. As consolation though, some companies like Monde Nissin have shifted to paper cups, Jollibee and McDonalds have expressed their intentions, and my favorite pet project Starbucks paper cups will not be imported anymore but produced locally. There is hope after all…
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 7:12 pm
To the “MOVE ON Gang”(or aptly called “CATCH US IF U CAN”)
Let me summarize my points in the various threads above:
I was one of the naive people who joined EDSA 2 and helped install a GMA.Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa!
I ,and more importantly the people in general,are paying very dearly for that forgettable People Power 2 episode in our history.The difference between the glorious “People Power 1″ and that unforgettable event called “People Power 2″ is like heaven and hell!
This is the main reason why I absolutely detest now a “people powerâ€type of change!I think the “human veto”
(Noli de Castro) will NOT make things any better for the country.Baka malusutan pa tayo ni Mr.Esperon!
So please stop making the argument “Where are the warm bodies who will oust her in an extra constitutional way?”
But you better believe that I am very angry!More importantly the PEOPLE ARE ANGRY!
I (and hopefully many other)will be patient and wait for the end of her “term†in 2010.But she better not make a mistake of prolonging her tenure for life or even more day through “concon”,”conass” or or whatever disguise of martial law!
I told and promised my young son “NEVER AGAIN†on that fateful day when the Marcoses fled the country.I know of many others who did the same thing.
I swear to you I meant every word of that sacred vow to my son.
Never Again!
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 7:47 pm
I am hoping against hope that GMA would step down come 2010. So,I think we should be preparing for that eventuality by scouting for a highly qualified candidate and maybe define what that means “highly qualified candidate”. It may also help to monitor the statements,actuations and political convictions of the so called “presidential wannabes” floated around by the media. We have to be pro-active in our thinking before the political mudslinging starts and create an environment of confusion.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:02 pm
“engeng, time to go for bed. need to wake up early tomorrow for the mass. some spiritual renewal for the dark force in us. “- tililing
I dont need to go to church today, I already heard enough preaching, sermons and enlightenment and all other things that the get from the church. in this blog. Heck I dont even need to take breakfast. Just a tea and the ideas exchanged here is good enough.
Seriously, all the comments and exchanges is a really an excellent read! Only that all my internet time is consumed by reading alone. And my typing skills just cant catch up with all you.
Manolo, you must be so blessed to gather all these people in this blog. Its a gold mine.
Bencard, I can see your lonely days in this blog is over. Kudos to you! More and more people who share your views and convictions are no longer afraid to articulate them in this forum.
Tililing and eng-eng, you rock!
Ramrod and gps, you’re cool realy realy cool.Keep it up man.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:20 pm
“I don’t care what they do with those who received the money. Prosecute them, if they must. But the fact is that there can be no bribe-taker if there is no bribe-giver. And GMA is the biggest bribe-giver of them all.”
Pero, Shaman, pwede ring sabihing, “There will be no bribe giver if there is no bribe taker” di ba?
pepe on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:24 pm
rego,
“There will be no bribe giver if there is no bribe taker†di ba?
illogical
example, abalos is bribe giver, neri didnot oblige to be bribe taker.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:25 pm
Hello everyone…
BRB… something’s stuck in my teeth…gonna get some good old fashioned toothpick
pepe on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:27 pm
who said, “It’s not how much you blog, it’s how much you do besides.” ?
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:29 pm
I think I better call Garci to join in the discussions.
Now where’s my phone conversation recorder….hahahahahahhaha
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:46 pm
“Tililing and eng-eng, you rock! ”
Thanks rego.
My comment is awaiting modertion… well, must be something i thought i said…. hahahahahahahahaha
I only said i’ll call my friend Garci.
I though filters are only used by tililing’s servers?
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:50 pm
“The way I see it, the senatorial elections was our way of showing distrust for the current administration. It appears that GMA’s endorsement has become a “kiss of death.— Ramrod.
But Ramrod there is still another way of seeing this.
Manolo and Bencard had an interesting exchange on this on the previous thread. Bencard was saying that how would you take that in the case of the Congress where majority of the admind candidates won. And how would you relate the kiss of death theory with the election of Joker and Angara and the loss of Sonia Roco which is the representative of the Civil Society. Then there is the admin candiate just after opposition like Mike Defensor and Recto candidates just. And Manolo
Manol has alos a very good rebuttal defending the kiss of debt theorie. He pointed out that the midterm senate election is always the gauge for the the performance of the current admin.
What I think is missing in that exchange, the voter tunr -out analysis. How many peopl eactually voted against the total voting populace? Was there enough representation of the peopel voice in that election? I remember the OAV turn is even ver very low.
Anyway, I firmly believe that our electoral system is seriously flawed. And therefore can never be used as a tool to solve the countries problem.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:55 pm
The bribe taker cannot be called a bribe taker unles he or she is fully aware that what was given was actually a bribe.
Fr. Panlilio of Pampanga accepted the “gift”. Can he be called a bribe-taker? No because he intends to use the money received for small civil projects.
Unless of course you gave to me. I’ll always consider it a bribe…. hahahahahahaha
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 8:57 pm
Hija: try singing “Do you hear the people sing?from Les Miserables.
Heard that GMA had a wry face when she heard that song in Broadway.
—-
Mav, naman this is just a plain rumor mongering…
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:00 pm
qwert:I think Trillanes has that kind of courage,resolve and the intelligence.His stay in prison will help shape his leadership character.
Nelson Mandela spent 28 years at Robben Island Prison,before becoming the first black president of South Africa. Ironically he was first viewed as a ‘terrorist†by the “apartheidâ€government.
—————————————
Dont go that far, Ninoy wasincarcerated and Cory become president.
But hey dont you think trillanes case is very different from Ninoy and Mandela?
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:05 pm
The fact is, BRIBERY is encouraged since our childhood years.
How many times have we offered candies or chocolates to a child to stop crying or quit his tantrums? How many times have we offered a child money to do us some errands? If you did that, you have bribed.
Child psychology books call that positive reinforcement, blah blah blah… its a minor form of BRIBERY
BRIBERY is in fact an offer of any form to somebody to either do something or refrain from doing something.
The so called gift-giving by Malacanang, its a grown up form of the childhood bribery we all know of.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:07 pm
I hate it when they run out of toothpicks.
I had to fashion out a makeshift toothpick using bamboo.
Now i have bamboo splinters all over my arms… hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:09 pm
If you think a stuck piece between your teeth is bad enough.
Just imagine having to remove dozens of tiny splinters from your skin… hahahahahaha
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:13 pm
“The way I see it, the senatorial elections was our way of showing distrust for the current administration. It appears that GMA’s endorsement has become a “kiss of death.â€â€ Ramrod.
Not exactly.
If it were the case, no administration bets would have made it through last elections.
The fact is, people are more on individual personality basis, rather than who or what endorsed the candidates. Name recall also played a key role. Candidates who often appeared on TV weeks or months preceeding the elections had more chances of winning because they stuck in the minds of voters.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:22 pm
“I’ll let you in on a secret, there is a management option of “intuition†its when you don’t have to see all the facts, just enough, look at the pattern, search your management collective unconscious and move decisively. This is used when you are neck to neck with the competition that a moments hesitation will cost you your victory or when you want to avoid disabling loses. Look up John Maxwell.”
Ramrod, seems to me that you are doing the same thing that I have been doing before. Trying to resolve the politcal issues using the corporate approach.
Im my discussion with freinds and officemates who have corporate and managerial position. We thought of an idea managing the country just like managing the a corporation. However we come up with some kind of conclusion that the “operating parameters” is just so different.
I even brought up before with CVJ, the idea of electing a president coming from private sector. A fully trained and well experienced manager just like Juan Santos or Jake Pena, the only filipino who wasable to hol dteh top position of Intel Philippines until I left the company. Jake retired retired and was replaced with a malaysian
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:31 pm
“I even brought up before with CVJ, the idea of electing a president coming from private sector. A fully trained and well experienced manager just like Juan Santos or Jake Pena, the only filipino who wasable to hol dteh top position of Intel Philippines until I left the company. Jake retired retired and was replaced with a malaysian.” rego
i do remember jake pena, then the general manager of intel philippines. btw, what department were you in? were you in intel makati or intel cavite? lots of hocus-pocus also in there. at a time when the americans started to trust filipinos and passing on high posts to filipinos, some scandals arose especially in procurement and logistics. i think that was a long time ago.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:32 pm
There are many national leaders aspiring for the Presidency in 2010 (assuming no foul moves by the “incumbentâ€).The most prominent names at present are Villar, Roxas, De Castro, Legarda and Gordon. All these personalities have charisma, the political experience, the exposure at the national level and the required funds/political machinery.
Assuming these are the most probable candidates, I would ask myself one very simple but important question: “Who is the honest politician(hopefully, this is not an oxymoron) among them ?â€
Considering the national traumas associated with the incumbent president and her immediate predecessor, this country desperately needs a leader of true integrity. We need a president who is TRUSTED by the people.
We need a President who can stand there, look at us straight in the eyes and give us the terrible, awful, sad truth. For once, we would love to have a president who doesn’t throw his or her spin-doctor rhetoric at us.
He or she would see the truth as a non-negotiable necessity .He or she would see full-disclosure and transparency as a tool of a functioning democracy and not an enemy to his or her plans.
Is this asking too much from a President?
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:33 pm
[quote]think Trillanes has that kind of courage,resolve and the intelligence.His stay in prison will help shape his leadership character.
Nelson Mandela spent 28 years at Robben Island Prison,before becoming the first black president of South Africa. Ironically he was first viewed as a ‘terrorist†by the “apartheidâ€government.[/quote]
Mandela, Ninoy and other great leaders who were persecuted by their governments have one thing in common, they were loyal to NO ONE. Riding only on thir priciples to fight for what they believe is just and right.
Trillanes is definitely not a great leader in the making even though his butt is rotting in jail. He may lok like a poor helpless fellow being pinned down by the government. Only fools would fall for that garbage “paawa” effect of his.
Because Trillanes is LOYAL TO ERAP. What he did in oakwood was to aid Erap in his attempt to reclaim the presidency, not some fancy “we want change” crap.
He could not even admit to the simple fact that he was a stool pigeon of Erap.
Trillanes is a gutless and spinless yellow.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:38 pm
“There are many national leaders aspiring for the Presidency in 2010 (assuming no foul moves by the “incumbentâ€).The most prominent names at present are Villar, Roxas, De Castro, Legarda and Gordon. All these personalities have charisma, the political experience, the exposure at the national level and the required funds/political machinery.
Assuming these are the most probable candidates, I would ask myself one very simple but important question: “Who is the honest politician(hopefully, this is not an oxymoron) among them ?â€
Considering the national traumas associated with the incumbent president and her immediate predecessor, this country desperately needs a leader of true integrity. We need a president who is TRUSTED by the people.
We need a President who can stand there, look at us straight in the eyes and give us the terrible, awful, sad truth. For once, we would love to have a president who doesn’t throw his or her spin-doctor rhetoric at us.
He or she would see the truth as a non-negotiable necessity .He or she would see full-disclosure and transparency as a tool of a functioning democracy and not an enemy to his or her plans.
Is this asking too much from a President?” mav
if the next president would not be beholden to anyone, maybe he/she would foster more transparency. this debt of gratitude come elections just stinks like your friendly imburnal.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:40 pm
“if the next president would not be beholden to anyone, maybe he/she would foster more transparency. this debt of gratitude come elections just stinks like your friendly imburnal.”
hija:true!
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:42 pm
“Because Trillanes is LOYAL TO ERAP. What he did in oakwood was to aid Erap in his attempt to reclaim the presidency, not some fancy “we want change†crap.
He could not even admit to the simple fact that he was a stool pigeon of Erap.
Trillanes is a gutless and spinless yellow.”
11 million people do not agree with you.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:43 pm
There are many national leaders aspiring for the Presidency in 2010 (assuming no foul moves by the “incumbentâ€).The most prominent names at present are Villar, Roxas, De Castro, Legarda and Gordon. All these personalities have charisma, the political experience, the exposure at the national level and the required funds/political machinery. – MAV
Villar – perhaps one of the greates “balimbings” of all time. For Erap in good times, left Erap during the impeachment and joined the administration, left the administration during bad times and went back to Erap. If that kind of crappy politician goes to Malacanang, we’re all be in very deep pile of crap.
Roxas – Mr. Palengke alright. Thanks but no thanks. We need somebody who could market the filipino’s greatness across the globe, not some “public market guy”.
Legarda – the more evil twin of Medusa. Snakes lurk not just in her head but all around her body.
Gordon – not very flash gordon to say the least. Accomplishments please. Don’t be a comic book guy ok.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:45 pm
Mav.
Not really, but I belive its flawed. Because you made your criteria out of your hatred Gloria but not really a based on principles and the real needs of the country. Chances are you will be miss to consider any presidnatial candidate who has some form of association with Gloria.
How many tem teh we elect a president fo rteh wrong reasons
People voted for Cory becuase he is the opposite of Marcos but not really on his qualification , capabilities and abilities. Peopel voted of Erap becuase his popularty and masa appeal ( the opposite of the elite). People voted for Gloria for fear of having FPJ as president ( another Erap whos eonly qualification is a masa apeal and zero abailities and capabilities.)
When we will ever learn to be objective and priciple based in electing a president and sentors other this time public officials
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:47 pm
11 million people do not agree with you. – MAV
Not surprising, there are 11 million stool pigeons. Not my fault. Hahahahahahahaha
Birds of the same feather, ELECT together…hahahahahaha
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:48 pm
Trillanes is a gutless and spinless yellow.â€
11 million people do not agree with you.
——————————
More than 11 million peopel did not agree with you
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:48 pm
“Not really, but I belive its flawed. Because you made your criteria out of your hatred Gloria but not really a based on principles and the real needs of the country. Chances are you will be miss to consider any presidnatial candidate who has some form of association with Gloria.”
We need a president who is TRUSTED by the people.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:52 pm
Correction:
There are 11 million gutless, spineless yellow stool pigeons.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:53 pm
i despise trillanes, period.
i won’t expound on the matter anymore because the comments in here might reach 1,000 and it actually slows down the loading and refreshing of this article.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 9:58 pm
“Trillanes is a gutless and spinless yellow.â€
It’s easier to post blogs in the comforts of our homes on a beautiful Sunday evening than to stand up for your convictions(right or wrong) and stay in a lonely prison cell away from the family.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:00 pm
Tililing,
I know you don’t just despise Trillanes, you curse him to the ends of the earth.
C’mon, you can say more than “i despise Trillanes”.
Hahahahahaha
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:00 pm
“i despise trillanes, period.”
Stay free!
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:02 pm
“It’s easier to post blogs in the comforts of our homes on a beautiful Sunday evening than to stand up for your convictions(right or wrong) and stay in a lonely prison cell away from the family.”
Poor Trillanes, he was just trying to give the government a shot in the arm, in the legs and in the head… hahahahahahahahhahahahaha
He got exactly what he deserve. Traitors don’t deserve any decent treatment.
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:05 pm
Is this asking too much from a President?†– MAV
I think the question ought to be: Is this asking too much from the present political system?
p.s. I’m expecting a double blog, manolo is still reading the first one.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:07 pm
Tililing,
Im curious, who are you considering to be the next president?
In my case I prefer peopel like Sonny Belmonte and Solita Monsod.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:09 pm
I LOVE GMA…. MUAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I hate Trillanes… TSEH !!
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:09 pm
How many of us “anonymous bloggers”(including myself)are willing to be imprisoned because of our strong convictions (right or wrong)?I know at least three:Ninoy in Laur,Mandela at Robben Island Prison and Trillanes in Fort Bonifacio?
Very easy to be a blogger than a prisoner with conviction.You are free to make fun of him in the comfort of your homes on a beautiful Sunday evening.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:11 pm
“We need a president who is TRUSTED by the people”.
If you mean 100% of the people, it would be unrealistic and improbable. People have different values and they trust and distrust candidates in different ways.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:15 pm
“Im curious, who are you considering to be the next president?
In my case I prefer peopel like Sonny Belmonte and Solita Monsod.” rego
belmonte is a good choice. i was thinking oscar orbos but he’s out of politics these days. used to be for miriam but can’t trust the country in the hands of an unstable fellow but she’s got what it takes – a strongwoman of the philippines. (only if she’s more psychologicall stable)
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:16 pm
Did somebody say we need a leader the likes of Sonny Belmonte.
Well, I can’t agree with you more.
Sonny Belmonte have been working SILENTLY but EFFECTIVELY during his tenure. Quezon City has overtaken Makati when it comes to income.
We need the likes of him to turn our country around.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:18 pm
“I prefer a country run like hell by Filipinos to a country run like heaven by Americans. Because, however bad a Filipino government might be, we can always change it.” MLQ
was this quote a prediction by the late MLQ? it’s obvious that we’re in a country run like hell in the past decades.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:19 pm
REGO:
I did not say trusted by “100% of the people”.
The difference between someone who has true integrity and someone who is simply a loyalist is that everyone trusts the person with integrity.
Those that AGREE and those that DISAGREE with a person with integrity both know that they will be told the truth.
They also know that a lesser person would likely not be straight with them if they were not on the same side.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:20 pm
“Very easy to be a blogger than a prisoner with conviction.You are free to make fun of him in the comfort of your homes on a beautiful Sunday evening.”
So I am supposed to feel sympathy for Trillanes?
The 3rd law of motion in physics also applies to everyday life. For every action, there is an equal and opposite conviction…..hahahahahahahaha
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:25 pm
belmonte is a good choice. i was thinking oscar orbos but he’s out of politics these days. used to be for miriam but can’t trust the country in the hands of an unstable fellow but she’s got what it takes – a strongwoman of the philippines. (only if she’s more psychologicall stable)
Tililing,
Its fortunate you and Mirriam did not meet at UP. The carnage would have been unimaginable… hahahahahaha
Mirriam might not be the most stable, but she can stabilize anybody… hahahahahaha
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:26 pm
“it’s obvious that we’re in a country run like hell in the past decades.”
DiosdadoMacapagal stands out as one of the great, respected, highly esteemed and loved presidents of the Philippines. During his time, the Philippines enjoyed prosperity and was the second most developed country in the Asian region, next only to Japan and ahead of the new tigers of Asia like Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, etc.
It has been downhill since then!(no thanks to MARCOS,CORY,RAMOS,ERAP , GMA).
“I have sat at the sumptuous tables of power, but I have not run away with the silverware.”Diosdado Macapagal
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:30 pm
“Tililing,
Its fortunate you and Mirriam did not meet at UP. The carnage would have been unimaginable… hahahahahaha
Mirriam might not be the most stable, but she can stabilize anybody… hahahahahaha” engeng
miriam has the talent of stabilizing and destabilizing people’s minds. this is due to the fact that she’s shuttled back and forth in the realm of the sane and the insane. it’s a good thing she was born before me.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:30 pm
Yes Tililing, Orbos I like Orbos too.
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:31 pm
“In my case I prefer peopel like Sonny Belmonte and Solita Monsod” – rego
If I may add, people like Jesse Robredo (mayor of Naga City), the Magsaysay awardee guy.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:33 pm
qwert:I like Jesse Robredo too.Sayang,he needs NATIONAL exposure before 2010.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:35 pm
“DiosdadoMacapagal stands out as one of the great, respected, highly esteemed and loved presidents of the Philippines. During his time, the Philippines enjoyed prosperity and was the second most developed country in the Asian region, next only to Japan and ahead of the new tigers of Asia like Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, etc.
It has been downhill since then!(no thanks to MARCOS,CORY,RAMOS,ERAP , GMA).
“I have sat at the sumptuous tables of power, but I have not run away with the silverware.â€Diosdado Macapagal” mav
don’t forget magsaysay as well. i would agree that the late pres. macapagal was dubbed the incorruptible. these were two presidents who were born poor yet strove to better themselves surmounting all the odds. eventually, they became great leaders.
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:35 pm
“Yes Tililing, Orbos I like Orbos too” – rego
Oca Orbos is ok.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:37 pm
“Yes Tililing, Orbos I like Orbos too.” rego
i wonder why oca quit politics. maybe he can’t take the heat anymore. is a man of integrity and honesty.
qwert on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:39 pm
Why is it that the good guys need national exposure and the bad guys are overexposed?
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:39 pm
Downhill or you mean uphill?
And having a president other than GMA could suddenly make it a downhill?
To gain prosperity, we need to give up many things, including some of our freedoms. There’s no such thing as a free lunch when it come sto politics and economy.
Leftist groups should be silenced or exterminated.
Persons who have been charged with corruption should not be allowed to run or join any political party.
Party list should be flushed down the toilet.
SK and Barangay officials should be scrapped totally.
Journalists and media outlets should be held fully responsible for any onfounded expose or news. Even entertaining bogus expose or allegations should have stiff penalties.
There you have it, my recipe for a peaceful, progressive and stable nation…. hahahahahahaha
Bencard on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:41 pm
rego, thanks for the kind words. you have been keeping me company during those lonely days, along with a few others open-minded enough to go beyond personalities in search of “truth”. tilliling and engeng are two formidable voices that cannot be ignored. now if only karah and bibeth could reappear.
cvj & ramrod, i guess your high-fiving each other is a little premature. but then again, what else is new. you people are fond of celebrating before victory, so you have to wipe eggs on your faces a little too often.
ramrod, you are always equating government with your employer. a government cannot replace its leaders without following the due process of the law. your highest officer can be kicked out anytime, contract or no contract, cause or no cause. even the “people” cannot change its government without election except unlawfully by destroying it through revolution. the stockholders of your company can remove all your officers, and entire personnel, simply by corporate action or scuttling it through merger or dissolution.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:41 pm
“don’t forget magsaysay as well. i would agree that the late pres. macapagal was dubbed the incorruptible. these were two presidents who were born poor yet strove to better themselves surmounting all the odds. eventually, they became great leaders.”
HIJA:Sayang,somebody is not living up to her illustrous father’s great name!
don’t forget magsaysay as well. i would agree that the late pres. macapagal was dubbed the incorruptible. these were two presidents who were born poor yet strove to better themselves surmounting all the odds. eventually, they became great leaders.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:42 pm
“i wonder why oca quit politics. maybe he can’t take the heat anymore. is a man of integrity and honesty.” Tililing
Well, Philippine politics is hotter then the surface of the sun, scorching even the most seasoned veterans.
But then again, there’s always the cooler dirty opposition…. hahahahahahahaha
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:45 pm
“To gain prosperity, we need to give up many things, including some of our freedoms. There’s no such thing as a free lunch when it come sto politics and economy.”
Stay free sister!
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:47 pm
A Pleasant evening Bencard
I belive you were hoping bibeth and karah would resurface…
Just between the 2 of us, its me BIBETH!
Don’t wanna use bibeth anymore, i have been called bibith by manolo all the time….hahahahahahaha
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:48 pm
“cvj & ramrod, i guess your high-fiving each other is a little premature. but then again, what else is new. you people are fond of celebrating before victory, so you have to wipe eggs on your faces a little too often.” bencard
this is the most hilarious if not the best paragraph i have read today. what i like the most is the wiping of eggs in their faces part. i salute you.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:49 pm
“You have been keeping me company during those lonely days, along with a few others open-minded enough to go beyond personalities in search of “truthâ€.”
Very easy to do Monday morning quarterbacking from the
“land of the free”.
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:50 pm
“To gain prosperity, we need to give up many things, including some of our freedoms. There’s no such thing as a free lunch when it come sto politics and economy.”
Hala eng eng, lagot kay Manuel beuncamino at CVJ dito sa sinabi mo.
But heck I dont we dissect thier hatred of this “line” once more…
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:51 pm
I mean ” why dont we dissect this line once more?
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:55 pm
You’re welcome Bencard.
How s the weather there. its starting to get cold here . BRRRRRR. I hate it!
Mostly likly I will be in spending more and more time in this blog now.
Shaman of Malilipot on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:56 pm
Rego,
Running a country like a corporation won’t work. I once worked with a multinational company here in the Philippines whose parent company’s president was a former US congressman. In running his office, he applied corporate management principles and practices, but he made many enemies in the process. He didn’t get reelected.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:58 pm
“Leftist groups should be silenced or exterminated.”
Bibith: Easy to come up with frivolous statements in front of our PCs.Understand the ramifications of what you say.
Relax langs hija.Let’s debate. Make love not war.
stay free sister!
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 10:58 pm
engeng, either you’ll be dead meet or they’ll be dead meat with you. it’s time to grab me some santol.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:06 pm
“There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust.” Demosthenes
Good night folks!STAY FREE!
To Monday morning quarterbacking bloggers:Have a nice day!
rego on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:06 pm
Yes Shaman, Thats what Im telling ramrod too. It would really be very difficult.
On the other hand, I was looking at Mayor Bloomberg here. He made it. Well ther are few adjustment in his first term. His survey ratings was even very low then.
Now is satifaction rating is running at 60 to 70 even near 80 percent. There is even a glrowing number of people here including me who wants him to be the next president.
But then NYC is a city not a country.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:09 pm
MAV
“Bibith: Easy to come up with frivolous statements in front of our PCs.Understand the ramifications of what you say.
Relax langs hija.Let’s debate. Make love not war”
Bring some leftist infront of me and I will show them what I mean.
Frivolous? Countries who have succeded in keeping insurgents at bay are gaining economic prosperity.
You don’t use peace with a group that wants war.
I don’t suppose you fall for the crap that the leftists are not NPA’s.
Now where did I put that good old M-14 of mine…. hahahahahahaha
Shaman of Malilipot on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:13 pm
“Pero, Shaman, pwede ring sabihing, ‘There will be no bribe giver if there is no bribe taker’ di ba?”
But, rego, the giving comes first before the taking.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:16 pm
I don’t expect anybody to agree with my positions and views.
Our country is neck deep in a quagmire. A quagmire of corruption, instability and politcal unrest.
You don’t get out of a quagmire by wiggling around. You just sink deeper. You need to exert sheer brute force to pull out somebody or something trapped in a quagmire. If it means a brief moment of pain and suffering, so be it, as long as its final result is freedom and liberation.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:19 pm
“Bring some leftist infront of me and I will show them what I mean.
Frivolous? Countries who have succeded in keeping insurgents at bay are gaining economic prosperity.
You don’t use peace with a group that wants war.
I don’t suppose you fall for the crap that the leftists are not NPA’s.
Now where did I put that good old M-14 of mine…. hahahahahahaha.”
i have reliable information who told me that you’re afraid of firecrackers? m-14 is long gone. bushmaster is the in-thing these days. check it out.
MAV on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:22 pm
“Bring some leftist infront of me and I will show them what I mean.”
Bibith:We are ALL FILIPINOS.We have only one country.We have decided to stay here(unlike some Monday morning quarterbacking bloggers).
Relaxs lang.It’s a beautiful Sunday evening.Listen to Il Divo (particularly “Regresa Ami”).
Good night now! Stay free Bibith.
Reflect on this beautiful saying by a great but humble leader:“I have sat at the sumptuous tables of power, but I have not run away with the silverware.â€Diosdado Macapagal
Shaman of Malilipot on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:26 pm
“But then NYC is a city not a country.”
You’re quite right, rego. Bloomberg might find it hard running for president as an independent. If I remember right, he left the Republican Party.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:26 pm
MAV,
We only have one country, but it ain’t big enough for both freedom lovers and communists.
“I have sat at the sumptuous tables of power, but I have stabbed the communists with the silverware.†– ENG^2
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:35 pm
Tililing,
where were you when I needed you most? (sad and crying)
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:37 pm
“where were you when I needed you most? (sad and crying)” engeng
quite busy eating bangkok santol.
Tililing on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:51 pm
engeng, what can you say about the hair of jdv3. used to be thin now it became thick. i know your quite an expert on hair matters.
ramrod on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:56 pm
Bencard,
I really don’t believe the exchanges in this blog is about competition of who is the best debater. You and company can win, you are very good at it, and that is not why I’m here. I am interested though in how we can find solutions or ideas in how we can build this country and make life better for everybody.
I can’t help it, I can only derive what I deem as relevant practices from my experiences and these practices which I believe are still very much applicable. I don’t believe that you think our leaders can dispense with INTEGRITY, ACCOUNTABILITY, TRANSPARENCY, COMMITMENT TO THE BOTTOMLINE (these are corporate practices but they are universal right)? Maybe you don’t like corporate practices, I can’t change that. But I do believe that LEADERSHIP principles apply to all. Also, I take offense, hurt actually, when people label the Filipino gullible, because like it or not, I care, enough to decline a juicy European posting, citizenship and all. I especially take offense when the military is unjustly belabored because I once belonged to PMA class ‘89. But it works both ways, I may have stepped on people’s feet with commnents about GMA and company, perhaps I deserved that.
Anyway, to cut to the chase, what we were trying to come up with was a framework by which we can base our decisions on choosing future leaders. What should be their priorities, directions, backgrounds, and even track records. There were obstacles that were also uncovered, like the existence of a powerful block that can stifle any changes to the constitution that are not favorable to them. No reforms can be achieved with this block entrenched in the system. Once this framework is clear, we need to come up with names. The end result is basically the list of names we may be looking at to be our next leaders, and help put them in power. As members of the electorate thats about the best we can do aside from paying taxes and doing our jobs to the best of our abilities, and teach our children good values.
We can look to other countries that achieved considerable success, or look to our history for traits our leaders must have, and most importantly look at our hearts if this is really what we want and not just exchange hot air.
What I expected was to communicate with people who are serious about these matters as we are talking about the future of our children and their children after that.
But if you’re not up to it, I won’t take up much of your time. I’ll pack up and look for like-minded people elsewhere as I am probably barking up the wrong tree.
Maybe a blog is just that, you don’t expect anything achieved, just another “chatroom.” I’m sorry because I have lived my life for results, maybe this is not the order of the day.
But mark my word, if GMA runs for reelection she will lose, and thats definitely eggs on your face.
eng^2 on Sun, 14th Oct 2007 11:57 pm
Tililing,
may i have some of those bangkok santol. I just love santol, especially when its ripe just right, rub a little salt and mmmmmmmm.
JDV3 must have been spreading the wrong news about the ZTE deal.
There was no millions of dollars involved, chairman abalos actually gave him a chinese made hair grower…..hahahahahahahaha
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 12:01 am
Tililing,
JDV has been fooling us all along.
When Chairman Abalos told JDV 3 “umatras ka”, Mr. Abalos was actually telling JDV3 to back off a little so he could take a better look at his hairline…
So the plot thickens, so does JDV3’s hair… hahahahahaha
Tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 12:07 am
“JDV has been fooling us all along.
When Chairman Abalos told JDV 3 “umatras kaâ€, Mr. Abalos was actually telling JDV3 to back off a little so he could take a better look at his hairline…
So the plot thickens, so does JDV3’s hair… hahahahahaha” engeng
now i understand. when fg also told jdv3 to back off! it was because jdv3’s baldness is contagious and fg doesn’t want to contract this rare disease (thinhair syndrome).
when abalos was allegedly bribing 10 million usd, it was actually for jdv3 to have his thinhair syndrome be treated because abalos took pity on him and his really baldening hair.
makes sense.
Tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 12:08 am
Tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 12:10 am
mok mok
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 12:16 am
Tililing,
The ZTE deal was actually a big misunderstanding. JDV3 and FG was working out seperate deals for a supplier of hair growers.
Romulo Neri messed it all up when he misquoted the 2 as wanting economic growth, when in fact they only want HAIR GROWTH.
Chairman Abalos went to china and played golf with china’s hair mogul. But forgot to bring home extra botles for JDV3, who’s hair loss is worse than FG….hahahahahahahaha
The press also joined the confusion, saying broadband deal.. when in fact it was a HAIRBAND DEAL. There was no fiber optics, only fibers for TOUPEES.
hahahahahahahaha
Tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 12:37 am
some lessons we can all learn,
don’t judge the hair by its hairstylist. judge it by its hair growing solution.
(fg: back off jdv3! i don’t want you near me because of your thinhair syndrome. i will have your hairstylist thrown into jail
jdv3: but fg, it’s not the hairstylist sir, it’s the hair grower chairman abalos gave me in china – it has lead)
don’t judge the millions by its peso equivalent. judge it by the millions of hairs in a person.
(abalos: sec. may 200 ka dito
neri: (in his mind – how will i respond. is this a bribe? is this something else?)
abalos: sec. may 200 bottles of hair grower ka dito. for your retirement)
don’t judge a company by its website. judge it by what it sells underground. zte is not really a telecoms company, it’s a hair growing manufacturer. just look at zte:
z = zuper
t = taas
e = eerrr mo
the project is not actually broadband but broadhair. they got it all wrong.
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 12:44 am
tililing,
yes they got it all wrong. It even went to the extent of accusing each other of bribery.
“May 200 ka dito” – actually means number of bottles (but abalos secretly gave away 50 bottles to FG)
zuper talagaaaa!
hahahahahahahaha
tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:04 am
“yes they got it all wrong. It even went to the extent of accusing each other of bribery.
“May 200 ka dito†– actually means number of bottles (but abalos secretly gave away 50 bottles to FG)
zuper talagaaaa!
hahahahahahahaha” engeng
there was bribery alright but no money exhanged hands. it was a bribery of hair growers that transpired.
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:09 am
tililing,
the public was scalped by that bogus ZTE story
hahahahahahahahaha
tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:13 am
“tililing,
the public was scalped by that bogus ZTE story
hahahahahahahahaha” engeng
the public went hairless over the scandal.
tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:15 am
engeng, i’ll go ahead and sleep now. i need to wake up early because i’ll go to a buddhist temple and pray. you know, each day i go to a place of prayer with my multiple religion.
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:21 am
tililing,
A buddhist temple would be a great sanctuary for JDV3 and FG.
Their balding heads would given more credence
hahahahahahaaha
tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:23 am
“A buddhist temple would be a great sanctuary for JDV3 and FG.
Their balding heads would given more credence
hahahahahahaaha” engneg
shaolin fg & shaolin jdv3.
tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:27 am
engeng, let’s think of a medicine we can give gma so that she’ll grow taller and won’t be ridiculed as a midget no more. i’ll sleep over that thought.
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:30 am
tililing,
shaolin FG & shaolin JDV3
They could use that shaolin training to get back at their detractors though.
They’d be raising some hairs when they show up in their shaolin outfits.
hahahahahahahaha
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:35 am
tililing,
GMA’s case is not that bad as many thinks.
Carbon fiber elevator shoes can now be precision made to fit every countour of her legs. And synthetic skin could give the illusion of long feet.
Hahahahahaha
eng^2 on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:41 am
tililing,
Ok, you better go to bed now. You have been here all day long.
My suggestion on how to make GMA taller is pending moderation. Waiting for the big boss to allow it.
hahahahahahaha
I LOVE GMA… MUAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
Bencard on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:50 am
“the public went hairless over that scandal”, tililing.
except aquilino pimentel. a full black hair on a face that has seen better days (lol-can’t make that laughing face, til.)
watchful eye on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 1:55 am
The mice are playing while the cats are away…hmmm
justice in waiting on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 2:41 am
MAV and others, Good leaders are sometimes molded by their followers and most of the time by the people that surrounds them, their advisers.
There were many examples of them, some were born leaders, the likes of Abe Lincoln, Dwight Eisenhower, Ramon Magsaysay, but there were others that were made good by their good advisers, Ronald Reagan had very good advisers guiding him, George W. have a not so good in Karl Rove, plus the Special Interests influence of his vice President, that he ended making blunders after blunders. He may declare that he is his own man, but he does have enough knowledge of the world affairs that he still rely on his advisers.
For GMA she was smart enough with Money not a problem, to hire the best there is, and with the help of unprincipled and for sale politicians from every level, she was able to stay in power and may leave the Country with another Very Dark Mark as her legacy…
Bencard on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 6:37 am
something is seriously wrong with your vision, sore eyes. or is it hallucination. when you see mice while actually staring at cats, it must be something you have taken, as far as i’m concerned, the only other real cat around here, the biggest of them all, is the Ca’t.
Bencard on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 7:09 am
ramrod, please rest assured that i’m not here to “win” arguments. i have more than enough of arguments in more than 40 years practice of my profession, both in pinas and in the u.s. i win some and lose some, may be more, a lot more. but i always know it’s not about me or the person i’m debating against. it’s about my cause, my client, and the truth, as God and the law allow me to discover it.
i’m all with you in a common crusade to improve our political and social life. i think finding solutions to these problems would lead to others such as in the areas of economy, productivity, environment and education, among others.
rhetorics of hate and prejudice serve no useful purpose. it’s more than divisive, could inflame volatile emotions to violence and brute force. the only thing we have to fear is a general breakdown of law and order. life is like a pendulum. it swings to and from both extremes, from too much freedom (license) to none at all and vice versa, and back to where it begun. we must learn to maintain a balance or we all perish.
Bencard on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 7:24 am
rego, it’s getting nippy here and in the rest of new england. but the sun was out all day and we (my wife & I) did our annual ritual this time of year – raking leaves. with my three giant maple trees at the backyard still partially green, we would be doing this at least 2 more weekends – weather permitting. foliage is at its peak and my wife wants a drive to the countryside, maybe to an apple orchard nearby. enjoy the fall and don’t think of winter yet.
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 9:21 am
at the rate the repartees between two gma rarahs ungs are taking place, i say it’s coming from one schizo. stylometrically telling.
Tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 2:16 pm
“at the rate the repartees between two gma rarahs ungs are taking place, i say it’s coming from one schizo. stylometrically telling.†inidoro
could you present a mathematical formula to aid this archaic conjecture of yours? or shall we say, another case of a misled and hoodwinked conclusions. if you know the proponent of this blog (i guess you know mlq3), he’s the one who can put to rest all these brouhaha and hullabaloo. it all boils down to, well, tsismis (which is a common as air these days). why don’t we talk something with substance and not more on hearsays (are you a fond patron of the buzz? of boy abunda fame?) mok mok
Tililing on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 2:18 pm
am neither pro-gma nor anti-gma, my allegiance is to my convictions and what i think is right. i have misgivings and i also have some praises to the present administration.
cvj on Mon, 15th Oct 2007 5:47 pm
sabi mo eh.
The Ca t on Tue, 16th Oct 2007 12:19 am
Wow, Meow Bencard.
peter norton jr. on Tue, 16th Oct 2007 7:06 am
De-bugging tililing,
Tililing is FUN and wants to have FUN. She’s not a schizoid, crazy or whatever. The alias is a clever camouflage. Tililing is perfectly sane.
Tililing is MENTALly hyper-active – perky — and hyper-reactive – feisty.
Tililing is very clever in hiding a ‘bug’ behind technical legalities and aggressive argumentation — behind a seemingly logical proposition is a FUNdaMENTAL ‘bug’.
taxpayer on Wed, 17th Oct 2007 3:35 am
justive in waiting,
“MAV and others, Good leaders are sometimes molded by their followers and most of the time by the people that surrounds them, their advisers”
Well GMA has to consult other advisers about the others for check and balance among her group.
taxpayer on Wed, 17th Oct 2007 3:37 am
The role of the Executive secretary is very important so he has to keep in check others who may be veering out of direction.
newsbeat on Wed, 17th Oct 2007 8:17 am
mlq3,
Ang title mo failed inoculation bid, bakit puwede pa daw ituloy. Papano nanaman ang balita puro impeachment na naman!
How come hindi naman malinaw ang mga akusasyon pero pinagkakaguluhan pa. Marami na namang diskusyon.
Jingo Manalo on Mon, 17th Dec 2007 7:47 am
“Remonde said: “The congressmen are not for sale, and for that matter the entire Congress of the Philippines.â€
Yes Cerge. They aren’t for sale but their souls are. No morale, no values and no cantidad left anymore for most of them.
You are spinning our heads again…..
HAGEDORN FOR PRESIDENT on Mon, 25th Feb 2008 11:42 pm
HAGEDORN FOR PRESIDENT!!!