Resignation isn’t a get out of jail free card

tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:02 pm 



i wonder what happened to my first comment?

Arbet on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:08 pm 



Sir, what’s your reaction on this?

mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:13 pm 



arbet: noted.

tonio, i dunno, nothing awaiting moderation as of now.

Rom on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:13 pm 



I think it was Sun-tzu who said that a good general picks his battleground. And that’s what Abalos has done. He has chosen the venue where he can defend himself the best: a court of law. The perception that he has ‘fallen on his sword’ I think, arises from the mistaken impression that the Chairmanship of the COMELEC is some prize to be held on to at whatever cost. For Abalos, as I think it is for everyone, the biggest prize is his freedom.

manuelbuencamino on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:58 pm 



To arbet,

Vic Agustin is the columnist who taught the manly thing to do to someone he disagreed with violently is throw water on his face and then to hide behind women when the man he threw water on decided to go after him with fists.

At a TV show where Agustin and his victim, Renato Constantino, appeared together, Agustin poured water on his head to show his remorse.

It’s ironic Agustin calls his column “Cocktales” when tales are all he’s got.

manuelbuencamino on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:00 pm 



Abalos may not be Gloria but he is pretty big fish. We must thank God for small mercies.

ricelander on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:07 pm 



“Romy Neri was about to open up in executive session, said if he did there would be turmoil to follow. Joker called in Noel Andaya who physically threatened to haul Neri out. Neri even vomited due to the pressure. The senators took pity on Neri and called it a night.”
This came from here: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view_article.php?article_id=91993

Now that good old highly principled Joker Arroyo is mad; he wants to know why anyone outside should be able to know about that incident.

ricelander on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:13 pm 



I am inclined to believe the story about Joker intervening for Andaya because his denial of the incident is lacking in vehemence. If Neri lost consciousness there or probably collapsed of heart attack, he would be the first to invoke secrecy. That’s Joker for you, that highly principled human being by his own estimate.

tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:28 pm 



manuel:

not a marlin but one pretty hefty tuna, eh?

water throwing incident? who’s vic agustin anyway?

Arbet on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:40 pm 



Sir MB, I do know him, and I read him for the business gossips (some of which turned out to be true). Methinks that Razon is now on the offensive, and Agustin is one of his foot soldiers.

hvrds on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:43 pm 



The President of the Philippines will have to explain why she changed the NEDA board approval of a purely BOT contract that would have been open and transparent with the national government making a commitment to purchase a part of the capacity of a privater provider to a supplier based ODA procurement with no transparency for a major procurement project committing the country to a debt based procurement.

She ordered the Director General to fast track the NBN project knowing fully well that it was contrary to her own boards approval of a BOT project. She was also informed of the bribe to apparently change the procurement from a BOT project to an ODA based procurement from the PRC. Neri informed the ZTE people that the government would only consider a BOT process. His boss president overruled him and went with a purchase with a tied loan. (No oversight)

No head of a line agency has the power to decide on the form of the procurement. The decision on how it will be paid for will have to be discussed according to laws governing ODA procurement.

This is the crux of the attempt to influence the Director General of NEDA to approve the project.

The early pronouncements (not withstanding the impropriety of his involvement) of Speaker JDV that in his conversations with the President that the procurement of a broadband network would be done on a BOT method clearly displays the fact that the President was involved in the decision.

DOTC Secretary Mendoza can choose which supplier he wants but clearly the decision on a BOT as against an ODA purchase is not his call. That is mainly the Presidents call.

The Office of the President is not GMA and GMA is not the Office of the President. That Office is the Highest Office of the Public Trust. The discretionary powers imbued with that Trust are to be used mainly for the common good. The President appears to have abused the Trust for private gain. Unfortunately in a poor country as is always the case the Public Trust in economic terms is the Treasury which gets plundered.

It appears that that Trust has been abused by the President herself. No amount of rationalization can be used to cover up that serious offense. Trying to pass the offense to the Speaker of the House who is equally culpable of the abuse of the trust of his office. They abused the Trust for private gain.

The institutions of government will be strengthened by this questions surrounding this anomalous transaction which involves not only the office of the President but her entire cabinet as members of he board of NEDA. NEDA is simply not a rubber stamp of the executive. It cannot be simply a political tool for the private gain of the incumbent and her cronies.

She is a de-facto President with a questionable mandate and is not indispensable to the Office of the Presidency. The office will continue without her. The former President has been found guilty of plunder. The Office of the President has been strengthened by that. Now the sitting President has been caught with her hand in the cookie jar so to speak. It was the President who changed the proposal from an unsolicited BOT to a tied loan project. For Big Mike? Imagine a Pork Barrel that is made in China for billion of dollars
without oversight.

She cannot claim to be the savior of the Philippine economy as the overseas Filipino workers will have something to say about that. Global financial liquidity mainly caused by the rich economies of the world pump priming their mature economies to prevent downturns have created massive disinflation and the rise of the Indian and Chinese economies which are causing deflation in salaries and wages in other developing economies. So we have the specter of asset inflation (bubbles in stock markets, credit markets and housing) tied with disinflation.

The legislature with JDV Jr. and the Senate have failed to point this issue of safeguarding the institutional framework of the government. Neri’s invocation of executive privilege is too little too late. It is a joke.

The Office of the President can stand without GMA she has to leave to make sure it is kept strong. Like Abalos said, he has to separate himself from the Office he so tarnished to save it. For that he deserves out thanks. But whatever there is of law enforcement must still take him to task.

From the NEDA website

The NEDA is the Philippines’ social and economic development planning and policy coordinating body.

“The National Economic and Development Authority (NEDA), as mandated by the Philippine Constitution, is the country’s independent economic development and planning agency. It is headed by the President as chairman of the NEDA board, with the Secretary of Socio-Economic Planning, concurrently NEDA Director-General, as vice-chairman. All Cabinet members, as well as the Central Bank Governor, are members of the NEDA Board.”

The Chairman of the Board of the National Economic Development Authority is the President of the Republic.

Neri Jr. use to be the Director General of the NEDA.

Rom on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:49 pm 



ricelander:”I am inclined to believe the story about Joker intervening for Andaya because his denial of the incident is lacking in vehemence.” This is a funny standard.

manuelbuencamino on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:51 pm 



arbet,

mercenary is the word.

But yes he is the lolit solis of the bizworld. And his gossip, like most gossip, is, more often than not, stale by the time it sees print. Realize that the likes of Agustin do not rub elbows with those people he gossips about. When he writes so called inside info it is fed to him by “sources” out to do a job on someone.

Arbet on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:01 pm 



Sir MB, I stand corrected.

tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:08 pm 



manuel:

so essentially, he’s just a guy making a living by using his newspaper job to further the agenda of whoever big business jerks his chain? what was it with the water sir?

Arbet on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:40 pm 



Tonio, during a presscon by JDV et al re: Chacha, Constantino tried to rant against them. Agustin doused him with water in return.

BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:52 pm 



“I am inclined to believe the story about Joker intervening for Andaya because his denial of the incident is lacking in vehemence. If Neri lost consciousness there or probably collapsed of heart attack, he would be the first to invoke secrecy. That’s Joker for you, that highly principled human being by his own estimate.”

I wonder what Joker Arroyo is up to. He must have a plan or I’m inclined to think the real Joker was abducted by an alien. No animal on earth changes coats in its old age.

BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:55 pm 



“I think it was Sun-tzu who said that a good general picks his battleground.”

Abalos is a foregone conclusion. If he gets away with it, the weaker PGMA becomes. Too dangerous for Arroyo if Abalos doesn;t get punished.

tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:56 pm 



ah! now i remember. so he’s a mercenary eh? is he a practitioner of envelopmental journalism, or are dinners in Wack-Wack more his style.

Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:37 pm 



Re Bondoc’s latest column.

While we may all appreciate Bondoc for his adherence that the truth must come out because it is the truth, must say am a bit worried. He’s treading on dangerous ground, i.e., breach of confidentiality between a journalist and his source?

Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:41 pm 



Oops, just posting my thanks to Mlq3 for the mention (posted it in previous thread.) Thanks Mlq3.

Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:50 pm 



Agree on this one thing re Abalos: “He resigned to save his ass, but he still resigned. Give him credit for that.”

Considering that this kind of thing happens ever so rarely in govt, I think whatever his motive, must say he did right and for that I shall give him 2 brownie points (out of 10.)

DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:59 pm 



MBW, Bondoc’s action is a BAD precedent bcoz now, sources would think twice before talking to media people, if they feel these journalists would breach their confidentiality jz to get a chance to “break the story first.”

whatever lip service Bondoc’s saying abt truth, d whole truth, etc, etc, he should never have printed unless Neri consented. And Neri said to him “my life is in your hands..”

well, golly! I bet now that he’s put his life in my hands, why don’t I jz break it wide in the open? after all, the TRUTH is more important. never mind if Neri doesn’t consent that I put both of our lives in danger. I mean, I could decide for myself, but gee, he gave his life in my keeping, so I guess that gives me the right to decide for him as well, doesn’t it? After all, TRUTH is more impt than both of our lives. And just so its clear, all Im after is the TRUTH ok? Have I said that enough? TRUTH! TRUTH! TRUTH!

and then we have Joker demanding: reveal the 4 tattle tales!

if any of the reporters who scooped the exec session followed Bondoc’s precedent by using his TRUTH excuse, we’d have PHIL JOURNALISM in tatters. and these reporters would be branded as “doing a Bondoc.”

cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:10 pm 



well, golly! I bet now that he’s put his life in my hands, why don’t I jz break it wide in the open? after all, the TRUTH is more important. never mind if Neri doesn’t consent that I put both of our lives in danger. – DevilsAdvc8

Devils, for someone who advocates civil war as the solution, you sure are squeamish about this matter. If your prediction is on track, it’s going to get messier than this.

DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:31 pm 



cvj, to be precise, it is revolution i advocate, not merely civil war (altho that would suffice as well).

and I know it’ll get messier, I jz am pissed that Bondoc had to make that decision which isn’t his to make.

notice that even if I am of the view revolution or civil war will “reformat” our society, you don’t see me taking up the cudgels and jump starting it on my own. it jz isn’t my decision to make.

oh sure, jump starting one is as easy as rolling a snowball downhill. the ingredients are all there. but a true revolution can’t be forced. it will happen on its own.

and yeah, im squeamish abt people losing their lives, no matter how much i wish for a Bastille right here in our own country. i dread it happening, that’s why i still call for reform, even if i believe Bastille is inevitable.

pete on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:37 pm 



mlq3,

casiple:”Three, the ZTE scandal has implications that go to the heart of the survival of the GMA administration and ruling coalition–”

The China hand is holding GMA by the neck. But it can choke the entire economy as well.

Implication of the ZTE scandal not only the survival of the administration but of Filipinos as well if the Phil-China bilateral relations goes into crisis and is mismanaged by the Philippine gov’t. Our exposure to China’s economic influence has made us vulnerable. A sudden pullout by China has dire repercussions for the Philippine economy. The seriousness of this implication should alert us all to be very circumspect about the manner by which we resolve this scandal.

grd on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:39 pm 



that’s the difference between Phil journalists and US journalists. while the former has no qualms in breaching their confidentiality agreement w/their source, the latter are ready to go to jail just to protect their source.

cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:39 pm 



I see, then that means what Torn said about me (in a comment in my blog) applies to you as well.

cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:53 pm 



My impression is that Bondoc did what he did to try to save Neri’s life (and maybe his own). When he invoked ‘Executive Privilege’, and disallowed Bondoc to reveal what was confided, i thought to myself Neri must be foolish leaving himself vulnerable like that. Bondoc’s revelation makes silencing Neri (unless out of spite or as a signal to future whistleblowers) moot and academic.

grd on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:54 pm 



ronnie puno’s dare: “to those who wants to bring down this administration, keep on trying”. (with a mocking smile as if he is saying you can’t outsmart Gloria).

mike A is back. says, “I never said back off.” so, it’s jdv3 statement against mike & abalos.

Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:59 pm 



cvj,

that may very well be Bondoc’s intention, to save Neri’s life which I think is worth saving but again Neri asked him not to go into specifics. Also, Neri is a big boy, shouldn’t Neri’s consent to save his own life take precedence?

pete on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:05 pm 



cvj,

I agree Bondoc’s presentation of the information and the considerations behind it is very reasonable and credible.

“Journalists’ Rule, don’t reveal your sources”, but in times like this standards are set aside as the ultimate dictum takes over : “follow your heart”.

DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:05 pm 



cvj, yeah i see echoes of myself in you sometimes. also in ramrod, and now in karah.

grd, yeah, remember that NY times leak that went all the way to court? NY times stuck with not divulging their sources. that’s a big encouragement for future whistleblowers.

re Mike A.

he never said back off? perhaps JDV3 heard wrong. what Mike A. actually said was: f*@! off!

and Mike’s claim he never pointed a finger at JDV3? maybe he really didn’t POINT his finger, maybe he just showed JDV3 THE finger.

Mike A said: how can I point a finger and say back off at someone I didn’t know? You, would you be able to do that? I can’t do that. (what he’s trying to say) But I can do approach him and remind him he’s acting improperly. You know me, I approach all sorts of people I don’t know and issue them reminders from time to time. Like this one time, you know Bush? He doesn’t know me. Well not really well. One time or another I’ll come up to him and “remind” him he’s acting “improperly,” ya know? jz a friendly reminder.

cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:24 pm 



MBW, perhaps Bondoc took too much liberties, but i can see the logic. He knew that Neri will only be ‘protected’ as long as he is of some use to the Admin. Once Neri completed his hatchet job on Abalos, his value was used up and he turned into a net liability. So it was a race against time, hence the rash decision.

Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:26 pm 



Yes, cvj, I guess we can look or should look at it that way.

frombelow on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:38 pm 



have we forgetten the so-called prisoners’ dilemma. wherein two suspects ( it could be _a and _n ) being held in seporate cells by the police. One is told that if he squeals on the onher suspect he will get lighter treatment. With the two suspects not knowing that they will go scot free if they remain silent. But the tempatation of squeliong first to save his ass and the thought that he is being suealed on is not a farfetched thought. Coulf it be that some groups are now talng with a and n making it a race who will squeal first?

vic on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:46 pm 



MLQ,

I myself would Disagree with your suggestion that any politician ‘Caught’ and convicted of “stealing” money should be spared the Jail. Such crime is so serious that not only they undermine the Public Trust, but it also deprive society of its rightful benefits afforded by those stolen funds.

Even with a very long Jail sentences still too many commit corruptions. Take that punishment and all they prospective wrongdoers will say, “well, if I got caught and convicted, just returned the “known assets” (how about the assets diverted to relatives and dummies?) And just forfeit my right to run and chances of getting caught so slim anyways”, then you are inviting more of the same..

If enforcement of the laws is so effective, I have no objections to your suggestion, but as of now, a long jail sentences and must be served, still act as some kind of Deterrents, that and plus all your others suggestion, like forfeiture of family assets acquired by unlawful means, plus punitive interest or fines…

grd on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:54 pm 



devils,

yeah, big encouragement for future whistleblowers indeed. I think that was Miller who went to jail. she has balls than bondoc. but of course others here are fast to explain the logic behind that move of bondoc. really, it’s to save neri’s life (who by the way quickly turned from hero to rat) now doing a hatchet job against abalos on orders from malacanang. it’s a race against time… my as_. another conspiracy theory coming from the experts.

nash on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:54 pm 



re Prisoner’s dilemma:

Mathematically, if all prisoners are acting as separate individuals, the most efficient solution is tit for tat.

But it can also be beaten if clusters exist and work with some sacrifices taken.

Kudos to GMA, she must have a closet mathematician as a PR adviser.

TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:55 pm 



GMA should change her slogan from “Let’s Move on!”to Let’s forget About It”.

A lot of things have happened :

a)Her fall guy has already resigned.

b)She has decided “not to continue” with the ZTE deal.

c)FG is back after his “planned” vacation .He said he never said “back off” to Joey.

So what’s the big deal?

Her song:”Let’s forget about it”

i told you i was sorry, i told you i was wrong,
i said it was an accident and don’t tell anyone.

but you love to circle round and round, I’m so misunderstood.
yeah, you love to circle round and round & I know that we should
forget about it -

let’s forget about it
let’s forget about it
let’s forget about it

i’ll stop crying on the mountain that we made
from the molehill where we spilt the milk.

so I say this never happened, perhaps not the way i thought.
did i throw this out of focus – or was it just the way we fought?

let’s forget about it
let’s forget about it

i’ll stop crying, if you’ll stop.
i’ll stop crying, if you’ll stop.

tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:37 pm 



i can’t help but feel that there was a bit of grandstanding involved with Bondoc’s move.

supremo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:44 pm 



If this is a chess game with the Senate playing white and GMA playing black. The Senate’s opening is called Queen’s Gambit. When GMA allowed Abalos to resign to avoid impeachment, she made it a Queen’s Gambit Accepted. GMA should have answered with a Queen’s Gambit Declined by telling Abalos to stay for a protracted impeachment. GMA is expose and her pawn Neri is languishing in the middle of the board. She needs another wolf to sacrifice. Mendoza come on down!

Chabeli on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:46 pm 



I agree that Mr Mon Casiple did a great piece on the ZTE NBN deal.

Thanks to Sen Miriam Defensor-Santiago on her China blah-blah, it makes one focus more on the Chinese government officials involved in the ZTE NBN contract. If indeed, “..there are possibly others–more powerful and far more vulnerable–deeply involved in the ZTE scandal”, then it should be a no-brainer to figure that some Chinese government officials must have benefited from the kickbacks. An eerie feeling comes to light of the great possibility that kickbacks for certain Chinese government officials were done in the Philippines to avoid the prying eyes of the Chinese government, sparing them from the possibility of getting shot in China.

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:29 am 



Here are some of my points regarding the Article:

(1) TRIAL BY PUBLICITY. Whether Chairman Benjamin Abalos was “guilty” or “not guilty” of Bribery and Corruption, he was subjected to a TRIAL BY PUBLICITY. There are thousands of opinions about him but at the end of the day, it would be the Court who would CONVICT or ACQUIT him of any wrongdoing. His position as the Head of a Constitutional Body all the more fed the “curiosity” of Media. I wonder if to date, cases have already been filed in the proper courts against Abalos in this regard.

(2) THE ONLY OPTION: RESIGNATION. The start of a FULL-BLOWN IMPEACHMENT and if the Opposition have the numbers, eventually, an IMPEACHMENT TRIAL in the Senate would not only affect Chairman Abalos alone but his whole family. Since Impeachment Trials is a Numbers Game, I don’t think that Abalos would have a chance given how the Senators treated him during the Senate Investigations. Fighting it out in the Political Arena is a losing battle. Fighting it out in the legal arena would give Abalos his “day in court” not “day in Senate.” He came through in the “nick of time.” At least he was smart enough to anticipate the Endorsement of the Impeachment Complaint wherein at the day it was signed, it became MOOT and ACADEMIC.

(3) Good Law Enforcement and Rehabilitation go hand-in-hand. Given how Justice becomes “Just-Tiis” in the Philippines and the present status of the different Prisons, I don’t think these Inmates are REHABILITATED save for some very exceptional facilties perhaps.

(4) In the case of ERAP, my mind is clashing whether he should be GRANTED CLEMENCY or follow the RULE OF LAW. One, Erap is old and I don’t think the National Penitentiary would have the facilities to address his HEALTH NEEDS. On the other side of the fence, a gentle handling of a Former President CONVICTED with a HIGH CRIME might become a PRECEDENT. I do think that MLQ3’s suggestions like: (a) Forfeiture of Assets and (b) Ban on Political Participation is IN ORDER.

(5) I do smell that CHINA wants TACTICAL and STRATEGIC foothold of the Philippines. In exchange for this, huge INVESTMENTS by China and Chinese Companies. This is what happened in the ZTE Deal, it’s DONOR-DRIVEN and SUPPLY-DRIVEN. To cut the long story short, CANCEL the Contract and RE-BID the said PROJECT OPENLY. I think that would lay to rest all speculations on OVERPRICING, on BRIBERY, et cetera. The question first is this, would the Government still push thru with a Naitional Broadband Network (NBN)?

(6) Won’t delve into truckloads of speculations on wrongdoing that’s directly linked to Malacanang. I would hope that there would be people that would come forward with EVIDENCE or FIRST HAND TESTIMONIES. Come to think of it, the Hello Garci Issue was way MORE OBVIOUS than this NBN-ZTE Scandal.

Carlos H. Lopez on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:45 am 



Funny thing is that here that GMA government fighting war against “communists” and dealing with CHINA, a communist country. In CHINA, people in the government are the BOSSES. Lest we forget, we are in a DEMOCRACY, hence people in the government are SERVANTS. Its seems that people in this administration are forgeting this. PUNO just said that people are out to topple this government. NO, people just want good SERVANTS. Analogy, if you found out your SERVANT was lying, cheating and stealing, wouldn’t you make him/her resign? PUNO mistakes the government vis=a-vis to people who are lying, cheating and stealing. OF COURSE, we do not want to topple this DEMOCRACY, but we want people in this government who lie, cheat and steal to RESIGN, just like ABALOS did. In short, we want GOOD , HONEST Governance. Simple lang, di ba?

TDC on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:50 am 



“PUNO just said that people are out to topple this government. NO, people just want good SERVANTS.Carlo Lopez”

Ronnie Puno willing to serve any master.He supported the presidential bids of eventual winners Fidel Ramos, Joseph Estrada, and Gloria Macapagal Arroyo.

ay_naku on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:43 am 



Give some credit to the utterly despicable Abalos just because he resigned to save himself a worse fate? Oh God, ganun na ba kababa ang standards natin as a people, rason na yun for some credit? Ay naku ha. I mean, he hasn’t even apologized for (much less owned up to) anything. He deserves all the opprobrium he’s getting.

baycas on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:46 am 



nbn is dead.

let’s forget about the whole thing and…

let’s. move. on.

…btw, that was gloria talking while the venable contract’s still vivid in her mind…same banana, as norbie would think…

baycas on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:09 am 



…now, everyone…on the nbn deal:

mum’s the word,
move-on’s the game.

repeat after me: nbn deal is dead! all hail plankton…este, all hail gloria…

supremo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:44 am 



They will probably revive the NBN project later and call it “Gloria Macapagal Arroyo Information Highway”.

Abe N. Margallo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:45 am 



Personally, my view is simple. For those calling for his resignation for ages now, don’t hit a man when he’s down. He resigned to save his ass, but he still resigned. Give him credit for that. Now, on to the harder part, hauling him off to court. Credit is due for resigning but that’s as far as credit goes. In a country where too few resign despite the public clamor to do so, he did it; but he also did it, to avoid what could have been an historic impeachment. So a historic trial necessarily comes next. – mlq3

A quick comment on Abalos’ resignation. He has apparently resigned because of an impending impeachment proceedings the ultimate purpose of which is the capital punishment of removal from office.

If the impeached public officer who is found guilty is an elected one, removal could be equivalent to an un-election process. If the public officer is non-elected, the same penalty means the pre-termination of his office tenure otherwise secured by law or the constitution. In either case, “resignation” is equivalent to a plea of guilty AND service of sentence. So, not only that there is nothing honorable to it except possibly to escape the disgrace of public execution, the official who convicted and cut himself could not possibly go after his accusers in another forum to obtain his redemption. For all intents and purposes, as regards the office from which he is removed, the removal is as final as the severance of the head of the condemned that rolled off quickly to the ground.

On the other hand, I’m seeing unfortunately a dearth of debate on the culpability of the ZTE officials who could have violated Philippine laws (remember that JdV3 has categorically testified under oath that a bribe in advance was given to Abalos by certain ZTE official). Going after these corrupt foreigners to the fullest extent of the our laws, the way Jimenez, Imelda Marcos and Joma Sison have been made to face justice in other jurisdictions, is an opportunity for the Philippine government to prove to the world that the country is not as corrupt as the survey says.

baycas on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:32 am 



remember that JdV3 has categorically testified under oath that a bribe in advance was given to Abalos by certain ZTE official…

even if money did change hands, our consolation is that the NBN-with-ZTE is already KO’d (kayoed).

so, in unison…Let’s. Move. On.

benjamin f. cardinez on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:34 am 



“resignation isn’t a get out of jail free card”? who says abalos’ resignation will prevent him from going to jail if, and only if, properly indicted, prosecuted and convicted in a court of law for any crime? it goes without saying that, as far as impeachment is concerned, the idea is moot and academic. one doesn’t even have to be a law student to know that.

it was indeed a smart move for abalos to resign. given his political unpopularity and the hostile forces he is up against in congress, his impeachment there and eventual conviction in the senate (in which he is not less despised) are almost a foregone conclusion.

being indicted and convicted in a court of law are entirely different matters for consideration based on what is now publicly known. so far, the likelihood of both is highly improbable. the bare allegations of neri and joey, as to separate offers of bribery made to each of them, will undergo severe tests of admissibility, reliability and credibility, and weight. the ultimate question is whether such uncorroborated allegations, without more, will suffice to convict “beyond reasonable doubt”. personally, i think that, with respect to abalos, it would have been far easier to convict him in an impeachment proceedings (a political exercise) than in a criminal prosecution ( a strictly judicial process).

that is why, it amuses me to hear people in this blog talking about sending pgma to jail (a la estrada) after her term expires in 2010. that kind of reprisal could only be possible, i think, if the entire legal system is radically changed, an event which would involve necessarily the overthrow of the current constitutional government.

justice in waiting on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:01 am 



If the Authorities will wait for Testimonies and Words of accusers as evidence to file charges for indictment and then Trial of the wrongdoers, then chances of Justice being served is NIL. That’s the reason why the NBI and the other police authorities have their own “experts” in the field of Crime Investigations for all different crimes, including commercial crimes, crimes against persons, crime against the government and breach of trusts.

Now the questions here is simply why with these allegations of a very serious crime in NBN deal, there were no Calls from the President, the senate or the Congress as a whole for the NBI or any proper authorities to initiate the “proper investigation” to dig in all the facts and proceed with proper action? That should have been the Judicial Process, instead of the Senate Inquiry or trial by the Media which is always divisive and is never conclusive…

rego on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:44 am 



My general principle is imprisonment really does nothing, I think it only leads to hardened and tougher criminals. In fact, my inclination is to support imprisonment only for three kinds of criminals: murderers, rapists/molesters and big-time drug dealers. All other crimes should be handled with fines and some sort of community service truly beneficial to the public. Anyone who has ever visited a jail, talked to inmates, knows that those crammed into jails enter a nightmarish world in which crime rules every aspect of the inmates’ lives.
——————————————————–

Manolo,

Dito medyo magkakasundo tayo….

I actually expereinced being locked up here 2 years ago. A policeman caught me lighting a cigarrete on my way out of the subway. I reasoned out that I am almost out of the subway so the offense is excusable. Unfortunately, he said there is an ticket that is popping up on my record so he needed to bring me to the police station for me to settle it. The ticket is about improper garbage disposal in one of the project in Manhattan that I forgot to settle for 3 years now.

So I was in holding cell for almost 24 hrs. I got an automatic dismissal for the smoking offense. And was sent home with an order from the court to settle the ticket in the manhatan court. I went to the manhatan court and the ticket was just thrown away. I was ask to go to a room for some paper work. It turned out that was the office of a socail worker. I was made to sign a paper that stating that i completed a community service by conducting lecture to group of offender without actually doing. The social worker explaine dto me that te offence is really minor.

While i was in a holding cell earlier, I was talking to a lot of people in the cell. There wer about 20 peopel ina cell. People are group according to the type of offense. Our cell was labeled ” Misdemeanor”. Most of the young people in our cell was caught using drugs. I ask almost everytiem if it was their first tiem to be locked up. And almost 8o % said they are repeat offenders.

Later, I learned that during first offense they are given automatic dismissal and has to render community service. But on the suceeding offense they have to do jail time.

Obviously, serving jail time does not stop them from using drugs. It was here that I believe the US government should find a better way of handling drug users than just throwing them in jail.

rego on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:50 am 



On erap, Now I clearly understand where you are coming from. I think I can go with you on this.

But please never ever an unconditional pardon.

rego on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:53 am 



On Abalos, I woud actually prefer impeachment than resignation. But then he already resigned…

TDC on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:02 am 



“even if money did change hands, our consolation is that the NBN-with-ZTE is already KO’d (kayoed).Baycas”

In unison:

Let’s Forget about It

Let’s Move On.

Happy Days are here again!

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:03 am 



“My general principle is imprisonment really does nothing, I think it only leads to hardened and tougher criminals. In fact, my inclination is to support imprisonment only for three kinds of criminals: murderers, rapists/molesters and big-time drug dealers. All other crimes should be handled with fines and some sort of community service truly beneficial to the public. Anyone who has ever visited a jail, talked to inmates, knows that those crammed into jails enter a nightmarish world in which crime rules every aspect of the inmates’ lives.”

I agree, prison could even be “informal classrooms” for those who are just there for “misdemeanor” and become opportunities for them to grow into hardened criminals – they have the best teachers there, people who really “walk the talk.” But then again, the first impulse when dealing with “criminal” behaviour is to “isolate” them so they would not constitute a threat to others and prevent them from further harming themselves also. Psychological or counselling or any other form of intervention costs manpower and money, resources we don’t have much of. For crimes like plunder or corruption I think hefty fines and community service is advisable though.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:05 am 



“In unison:
Let’s Forget about It
Let’s Move On.
Happy Days are here again!” -tdc

Here, here, lets move on!

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:07 am 



What NBN deal?

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:31 am 



How many times have we seen this movie?

As soon as it becomes obvious that this ZTE issue cannot remove GMA from power (due to lack of evidence), it will fade away. The only mention of it will be when anti-GMA types will include it in their list of examples of “lying, cheating and stealing” (Pidal, Garci, Northrail, Macapagal highway, Fertilizer, etc.).

This “search for The Truth” mantra is not about truth; it’s all about politics. Only God knows the truth. Us mere mortals have devised imperfect systems and institutions…which are, of course, populated with imperfect human beings. But that’s the best we can do.

Bottom line: Create the rules and follow them. No exceptions. Be responsible to society and be accountable for your actions. Meanwhile, use the proper tools at our disposal to chase, catch, convict and punish the rule-breakers.

Why can’t everyone stick to these simple guidelines of running a society?

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:33 am 



I just can’t stop myself.

The Arroyo’s are saying “catch us if you can you amateurs!” “hahahaha, hahahaha!” (ala Dr. Evil)

jztan on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:36 am 



I saw the explainer show with yuga.

You guys made some good points. the senators/media missed on the missing ‘bill of materials’ (?) to check on overpricing.

For the first time, WIMAX the next generation wifi was discussed.

About having more security by owning the backbone, I would suggest looking at VPN technology (virtual private network). The so-called tunneling protocal. You get to have a private ‘tunnel’ using the public networks.

Finally, as to the comments regarding senators not being familiar with technology. You have to give credit to Alan Peter Cayetano. If I recall, he discussed Skype during the Senate hearings.

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:49 am 



On the economic front, I sure hope the government does NOT give up it’s idea to build an NBN. This is a CRITICAL piece of infrastructure in a country which desperately needs to rapidly and massively upgrade its infrastructure.

This is also a critical piece of infrastructure during the dawning of the Age of Information. It is a chance to leapfrog, technology-wise, from the dark ages to the future.

I hope the whole project is reviewed — transparently — and implemented. I’ll bet you that the equipment will still be ZTE’s (outside shot: Hwa Wei’s)…it’ll just be a matter of BOO, BOT, G2G or whatever. Hopefully, it won’t be dragged out too long…which, of course, is a real danger. It’s not like we can wait around while the world speeds forward…..

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:58 am 



“This is a CRITICAL piece of infrastructure in a country which desperately needs to rapidly and massively upgrade its infrastructure.” – geo

You have my vote there!

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:59 am 



Why can’t everyone stick to these simple guidelines of running a society? – Geo

…because society itself is not simple. Lawyer-types would want to reduce it to legal procedure. Businessman-types just want to focus on their own bottomline. What we forget is that society (at least the more developed parts of it) is sustained by complex interactions among its different subsystems. Following ’simple guidelines’ is being simplistic especially when faced with contradictions.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 11:06 am 



When we say ‘critical’, we have to ask ‘critical’ compared to what? I think we’re taking too many things as a given here.

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 11:16 am 



It’s not that complex, cvj.

Laws and rules are created in many kinds of environments. Every business is bound by external laws and by its own internall rules and regulations. In most organizations, processes and procedures must be strictly followed.

Erap was NOT impeached properly. Erap was proven guilty of plunder. Find the proof of wrongdoing and convict…legally. Wiretapping is illegal; find the culprits. If GMA lied, cheated or stole, prove it. If not now, later (under another admin’s DOJ, Ombudsman, etc).

Do it the right way in the right forum. Simple. That’s what “advanced civilizations” do. Aren’t we one of them???

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 11:17 am 



“The older I grow, the more clearly I perceive the dignity and winning beauty of simplicity in thought, conduct and speech: a desire to simplify all that is complicated and to treat everything with the greatest naturalness and clarity.” – Pope John XXIII, Journal of a Soul

frombelow on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 11:21 am 



let’s forget about the whole thing and…

let’s. move. on.

catch us if you can. ha ha ha

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 11:22 am 



“Crtical”, in my opinion, for the Philippines:

1. Drastically improve the efficiency of the government.

2. Open up the marketplace to global competition.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 11:23 am 



“When we say ‘critical’, we have to ask ‘critical’ compared to what? I think we’re taking too many things as a given here.”

We’re talking about this new “toy for big boys,” I want it too, I want to be able to use it, play with it, take advantage of it, and not just look at my neighbors with envy.

“I feel the need, the need for speed!” – Tom Cruise , Top Gun

TDC on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 11:56 am 



“let’s forget about the whole thing and…

let’s. move. on.

The Gloria, Mike and Pidal 5 song

catch us if you can. ha ha ha from below”
Here we come again, mmmm-mm-mm
Catch us if you can, mmmm-mm-mm
Time to get a move on, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might

Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can

Now we gotta run, mmmm-mm-mm
No more time for fun, mmmm-mm-mm
When we’re gettin’ angry, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might

Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can

[Harmonica]

Here we come again, mmmm-mm-mm
Catch us if you can, mmmm-mm-mm
Time to get a move on, mmmm-mm-mm
We will yell with all of our might

Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can
Catch us if you can

baycas on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:06 pm 



hahaha…

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:07 pm 



“About having more security by owning the backbone, I would suggest looking at VPN technology (virtual private network). The so-called tunneling protocal. You get to have a private ‘tunnel’ using the public networks”
——————————–
jztan — The problem is that the existing private backbones are wholly inadequate…never mind that they charge too much.

Despite what the hired guns from UP said, the existant duopoly cannot deliver…and what it delivers is very expensive. Joker complained how the franchishes have not built the X amount of landlines nor built in the remote locations…which were requirements of the initial franchise approvals to begin with!!!

Meanwhile, Joker reiterated that the telcos were successfully refusing to meaningfully lower their charges to the extremely-high user — the government. For years.

Neri complained of monopolies, duopolies and oligarchies. He mentioned sea ports, air rights and TELCOS. The very things this government needs to focus on — infrastructure — are dominated by a handful.

So, since the domestic telcos don’t offer the right solution, why not go BOT, then? This is what JDV always wants. This is what JDV3 was supposedly offering. But was he?

It seemed to me that it was actually a BOO. That menas the private entity would build it, operate it and own it. The gov would simply be a user. Problem is: The chances are very high that the rates would still be exhorbitant. Security would remain an issue as well.

A bigger problem — for the telcos — is that such an arrangement would actually create a third telco. You think the duopoly would like to see that? They might even find ways to prevent it, no?

So who should build it? Run it?

So even the hypothetical “best-run government ever” would be in the same exact mess. What a conundrum. How to improve such critical infrastructure in light of this situation?

What would you (or anyone) do?

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:21 pm 



I couldn’t help but notice there are some people here who when watching a movie tend to root for the bad guy or contrabida “secretly,” the god guy almost always looks like a pushover. HAHAHAHAHAHA! (GMA ala Dr. Evil) hahahahahaha! (Luli as mini me)

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:29 pm 



Hey didn’t anybody see “Austin Powers?” the villain there was Dr. Evil (with a mole on his cheek), get it?

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:42 pm 



Geo, it is not that simple because laws and rules can and have been subverted by those who have the power to do so. That is why in more progressive societies like Japan, South Korea or the USA, written rules are supplemented by political and social norms. Over there, you see officials still have a modicum of ‘delicadeza’. The Prime Minister of Japan recently resigned, a few years ago the Chairman of one of the Korean Chaebols jumped from a building, even Nixon had to resign because his Republican partymates could no longer deny the obvious. That’s how complex societies work. Over here, what you have are people who say that should ’simply’ follow the rules as if that will take care of everything, never mind the obvious contradictions.

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:55 pm 



cvj,

In two examples you gave, the men had been caught not following the rules. Abe’s premiership was a failure domestically. These guys gave up because they had already lost the battle and war. The rules caught them or forced them out as well.

Step one is follow the rules. Let’s try doing that first…then let’s see what happens.

Are you advocating that we should all disregard the rules??? Or only some of them? Some of the time? Who would decide when and what we can ignore?

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:01 pm 



Geo, i’m not advocating that we disregard the rules, only that we should not disregard the obvious and blindly follow the rules. I happen to believe that context is important, but maybe that’s just me so you don’t have to be worried. I’m sure you’ll find enough like-minded souls who would rather move-on and beat up the Erap issue like a dead horse.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:03 pm 



“Crtical”, in my opinion, for the Philippines:
1. Drastically improve the efficiency of the government.
2. Open up the marketplace to global competition. – Geo

You have to go beyond those motherhood statements. I think you’ve been in the industry long enough to see that ‘critical’ projects are a dime a dozen.

If the problem is the price charged by TELCO providers, then government can first find out whether:

1. This is because of cost pressures (e.g. cellphone towers being blown up or cost of laying cables or cost of paying off loans).
2. Inadequate demand i.e. too few people paying for the same infrastructure; or
3. because a duopoly exist and the telcos can afford to charge higher fees because the consumers including the government does not have the bargaining power.

The answer (or answers) to the above question will then give an indication of what to do next. For example,

1. If it’s because of costs pressures, then government can help telcos by providing security to cellphone towers, embarking on a joint cable laying project or seek to refinance loans.
2. If it’s because of inadequate demand, then setting up a separate backbone for NBN would mean that the telcos would have to pass off the higher costs to us private consumers. That means that we pay twice, for the loans and for the higher private telco costs.
3. If it’s because of a duopoly, then we have to revisit why Telco deregulation failed and look at options such as bringing in a foreign telco, imposing price controls or nationalization.

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:20 pm 



cvj — I don’t say “move on” and I don’t have an Erap drum to beat. I say “follow the rules”.

To be clear, I don’t think the rules were followed in ousting Erap. That has caused a TON of problems right there. He WAS properly convicted, though. Both a long jail term and a Presidential Pardon are part of the rules.

To be clear, I don’t say “move on” about ZTE…and especially about NBN (which, I believe is very imprtant). I also don’t say “move on” about the issue of potential bribery or misdeeds. I think the issues should be pursued in the right fora — the courts.

But I ask you — if there are times when “context” and “the obvious” are to trump following the rules…who gets to make those decisions? You? GMA? Me? Cayetano? Abalos?

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:24 pm 



rego, interesting experience. ako naman, ang pananaw ko diyan, all of us have been bad at one point or another, and the times, at least in my life, where i learned you could be good (or at least better) and not bad anymore, was not when i was severely punished, but patiently told why what i did was wrong not only to others, but to myself.

then of course you have the experiences in school where you visit prisons, talk to inmates; as a journalist i encounter people who have had to endure the justice system whose only lesson is, kung wala kang pera, o konek, walang hustisya.

then you read back and learn, sa muntinlupa dati, at least prisoners learned furniture making, lahat ng mga tanggapan ng gobierno may furniture na gawa ng mga preso, may income ang mga preso at livelihood, maganda pa ang mga kasangkapan ng pamahalaan noon, at halos walang oportunidad upang i-raket ang procurement ng furniture.

o kaya sa iawahig puwedeng magtanim ang mga preso, malusog sila at mas may dignidad ang pagkakapreso kesa sa ngayon.

ngayon yung mga musmos kasama ng hardened criminals; may gangs sa mga jails, mafia ang sistema ng pagpapatakbo, etc.

nung time ni charles dickens kung may utang ka, ikukulong ka. di na ganun ang pananaw ng disenteng tao.

feeling ko 99% of crimes could be settled by means of community service and engagement with the community. kaunti lang ang mga kriminal sa dapat talagang ibukod sa lipunan.

sa mga naging taksil sa bayan, sa papamagitan ng pangungurakot, etc. ang pera ang nagiging susi sa pagbukas ng mga pintuan upang makamit ng mga ito ang kapangyarihan. eh, de una sa lahat, kunin ang salapi. pangalawa, ipagbawal ang pakikilahok sa pulitika upang hindi nila mabawi ang naconfiscate. kung wala kang salapi at poder de bali wala ka na, ikahihiya pa ng mga anak mo ang ginawa mo.

kung ikukulong mo lang yung opisyal na yan, eh sa sistema ng jails natin baka mas masarap pa ang buhay niya sa preso.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:26 pm 



rego, kung unconditional pardon, we have no say (you and i) but it will harm gma and it will prove estrada is just a cowardly guy -sira sila pareho.

but i agree, under no circumstances, an unconditional pardon.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:30 pm 



thanks jzstan, we tried our best, show started late due to technical glitches but i’m grateful abe guested and helped explain things.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:35 pm 



geo, abe’s writings show the limits of technological proposals and where the political class has a lot of catching up to do -and how even theoretically worthy schemes end up trashed because of incompetence all around.

it should have begun with gov’t consulting with the tech people here at home, they’d have been the most effective lobbyists.

then the tech people briefing the legislature.

then the executive informing the legislature which can confirm that the executive knows what the technical people know.

then everyone discussing it with the public by means of the media.

and then full disclosure of the nitty gritty (within reason) so everyone’s reassured its above board and a worthy investment.

then our relations with china or whoever would have been even more solid, no one loses face, the country’s excited about a groundbreaking project, and suspicions re” chinese involvement minimized, etc etc.

but instead, it was all done in stealth and a stink had to be raised, which well, just reinforces the notion it was a bright idea milked for its bribery potential.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:40 pm 



geo, the up profs:

http://www.aer.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=603&Itemid=63

were not hired guns. it was a paper they did on their own. they categorically denied the palace-sourced text that implied they were paid by pldt.

they had participated in an entirely different forum sponsored by pldt in the past, something enrile tried to imply was what had produced the paper, not so.

these up profs. come up with independent white papers all the time, and this was one of them.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:43 pm 



yannow, the pork barrel system in japan is rocket science compared to the crude pork barrel politics we do here. so is the american pork barrel system.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:46 pm 



I cannot credit Abalos for resigning as Comelec Chairman. He resigned only because he faced certain impeachment which could have opened up a whole Pandora’s box of shenanigans involving GMA and her cohorts, under the full glare of TV coverage. Saving Comelec, by resigning, from being tarnished (what’s there to tarnish, anyway?) was just, if at all, an unintended consequence.

After all, Abalos has better chances at the Tanodbayan with Merceditas Gutierrez as Ombudsman.

Levi on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:48 pm 



Geo,

“Step one is follow the rules. Let’s try doing that first…then let’s see what happens.”

Us? Are you a bureaucrat? A politician perhaps? You have to qualify the “us” because the brazen violators of the law (rules) are not the ordinary man on the street.

Government people and politicians are expected to set the example because they have been vested with both responsibility and power. In a democracy, their official actions are always predicated on service to and welfare of the people.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:48 pm 



mlq3, the above is a concise summary of what should have been done. i can only add that tech people are not in the position to evaluate the merits of the application (for which the system is being built) so prior to the first step that you mentioned, there should have been first a clear statement of the requirements.

Geo, so you’re position is that we should NOT move on?

manuelbuencamino on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:57 pm 



Supremo,

“They will probably revive the NBN project later and call it “Gloria Macapagal Arroyo Information Highway”.”

Pusta ako ng 200 tama ka

manuelbuencamino on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:01 pm 



Actually, even if Abalos resigned he can still be impeached.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:04 pm 



I fully agree with mlq3 and rego on the need to reform our penal system. If the objective of crime punishment is to reform or rehabilitate the offender, putting him in an overcrowded, filthy jail (which is typical in the Philippines) only dehumanizes him.

I hope this is something that Congress and the Judiciary can work together on.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:06 pm 



“Actually, even if Abalos resigned he can still be impeached.”

Really, MB? I didn’t know that. I always thought the purpose of impeachment is to remove an impeachable official from his position.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:17 pm 



What I recall is that Brazilian President Fernando Collor de Mello was impeached after Congress rejected his resignation letter.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:18 pm 



I wonder if it is just coincidence. I’ve been following this blog for a while but I have not read Karah before. Then just as the ZTE deal was about to become explosive and the counter-prop of the administration was in full swing, tadah! you have her here suddenly with blazing guns, so to speak. And now that the ZTE probe had gone pfft, she had gone pfft too. Is this just a coincidence or am I reading too much out of this coincidence? And is she not being too legalistic (she sounded exactly like Apostol in her arguments)? Last I heard, this is not the court of law, this space is the court of public opinion, ain’t it?

Levi on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:19 pm 



Geo,

…That’s what “advanced civilizations” do. Aren’t we one of them???

Relative to western democracies, it’s more like we’re just emerging from the neolithic age.

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:20 pm 



This is what I’ve been pointing out right from the start of the ZTE scandal. The project is noteworthy, but was hijacked by greedy interests. Unlike what the UP professors claimed, we do need this infrastructure, and contrary to popular belief, private telcos does not have the capability to support this infrastructure. Do you really believe they can support the entire govt’s needs when they can’t even support their own subscriber’s needs?

Who here have problems with their internet connections? Has PLDT, SMART, Globe, Bayantel been able to deliver satisfactory service? (never mind excellent) So what makes us think giving them another problem to think abt will make things better? As someone has pointed out, haven’t anyone even thought that the reason why a hulabaloo was raised abt this deal was bec the private telcos doesn’t want their oligopoly being broken by another competitor?

This has been a running complaint in my blog. I’ve raised these issues as well as the apparent inability of private telcos to support a government network. there are worser crimes being perpetrated by these telcos more than the wiretapping case. they’ve been selling our numbers to advertisers w/o our consent. they deduct loads in a dishonest manner (i can tell you i’m not a text addict. i can count the number of texts i sent, yet always my load would be gone before i can consume it fully) and anyone ever thought that the Hello Garci might be a blackmailing attempt by the telcos to get more concessions from the govt? these telcos already have too much power that its just right that the govt get out of its grip.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:29 pm 



Shaman, re: impeaching a resigned impeachable official. It is not because the object or punishment for impeachment is the removal from office of the person that a resigned and formerly impeachable official cannot anymore be impeached. That puts the cart before the horse. The reason a resigned official cannot anymore be impeached is because he is no longer an impeachable official. Now, if the impeachment process was started before he/she resigned, that is another matter. Some say it cannot prosper because the objective of impeachment of removing the impeachable official was already met and there is no longer any obstacle to his criminal prosecution. Others say that removal is not the only punishment that may be meted an impeachable official but perpetual disqualification also from holding public office. Under such justification, any impeachment started before the official resigned may be continuedas though it were an administrative case against a former civil service officer who may be barred from public office after conviction by the impeachment court.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:32 pm 



cvj,geo,mlq3

I see where Geo is coming from and frankly I am an advocate of “obedience” to the rules in a black or white application. We are after all a government of laws. I believe in drawing a line that must not be crossed as in doing so would be to infringe on another man’s rights putting it simply and I also believe that it is a leader’s responsibility to clearly, succinctly, briefly, and yes express/explain in the simplest form the seemingly “complex” rules that govern us and enforce them without prejudice. People can be taught to “toe the line” in so many ways, it will depend on your leadership style – you have a choice : modelling, positive reinforcement, and my favorite aversion technique, there are others of course equally effective.

This being said, i also see cvj’s point. He is looking at the issue from a pragmatist’s point of view, the viability of actual implementation of these rules. Our current leaders, perhaps most of them are lawyers apparently are not intent on implementing such rules but rather are more sophisticated in finding the exceptions, the loopholes, and the technicalities otherwise known as the “gray areas” and exploit them for their own advantage. This is one of the reasons I’m sure why cvj disagrees with “following the rules” blindly.

The shrewd will always take advantage of this “blind spot” in our society and to a great extent have been very successful, these “puppeteers” sometimes are hidden, some are are so brazen.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:32 pm 



Devils, have you been to a remote barangay hall lately? You really think that remote barangay hall and barangay officials need the “national” broadband network? Or maybe you are referring to key agencies? If it is the key agencies, then I guess it can be justified. But national? I do not think so.

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:37 pm 



Beandcurd, right you are. Key agencies it is. But it would still be national, wouldn’t it? after all, govt key agencies are scattered around the Philippines. City Halls, Govt departments, you name it. But brgy halls – really.

inodoro ni emilie on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:39 pm 



why, has gma accepted abalos resignation letter? was it irrevocable?

inodoro ni emilie on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:39 pm 



or does the independence of comelec not require this process?

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:41 pm 



“This is what I’ve been pointing out right from the start of the ZTE scandal. The project is noteworthy, but was hijacked by greedy interests. Unlike what the UP professors claimed, we do need this infrastructure, and contrary to popular belief, private telcos does not have the capability to support this infrastructure.”

Personally and based on experience I want this project. I want this as much as I hate taking the bus to work or anywhere else when I can afford to buy a car to make my life easier and work more efficiently.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:45 pm 



Beancurd,

If the objective is to mete out the punishment of disqualification from holding public office, won’t a conviction in Sandiganbayan or in any criminal court achieve the same thing?

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:47 pm 



ramrod, and jz for one example wherein a govt network would help is the nightmare in getting documents at the NSO. you won’t believe the inefficiency of this agency. I’ve been married since January of this year, yet until now I have yet to get an NSO marriage certificate.

you have to start lining up here in its provincial office in Naga at 5 am. the lines extend past outside the building and snake around it. imagine your horror if you endure this line and when you get at the counter, they tell you Manila NSO is holding your document hostage. they can neither get to it, nor issue one themselves.

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:48 pm 



imagine how much efficiency would increase with such a network present.

Geo on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:01 pm 



mlq3,

I’m sure the process could have been done better; it always can be. Do you happen to have the 16- or 17-step SOP they are supposed to follow? I’d love to see that. Aside from the tech issues, this was also a muddled, confusing issue.

You (or Abe?) think it was a “bright idea” though? I’m from the general industry and I think it’s a good idea. The UP profs don’t though.

I saw their exchange with Enrile…it seemed that the UP guys are — shall we say — on the same page as PLDT…which definitely does NOT like the idea. Look at the name of their paper — “Lacking Backbone”. Half of the two pages are about bad government. That smells funny already…if their task is to convince someone about the technical merits/demerits. Their technical arguments, meanwhile, are like a salesman’s pitch: Half true and purposefully omitting important points that DON’T support their conclusions.
————————-
cvj,

My position is that we should NOT move on from reviewing and implementing the project (correctly, I must stress) and that the proper authorities SHOULD investigate the alleged hanky-panky (and not just drop it/move on).

But, the issue should definitely move on from the Senate/Media Circus — they are incapable of doing this right. They’ve proven that already. Beyond a shadow of doubt. Take out the BS politics and do the investigations properly…via the courts.

BTW, you never answered me — who gets to decide when the rules are too blind and that a certain “context” trumps the rules?
—————————
Levi,

No, I have nothing to do with the government. When I say “us”, I mean ALL of us (you and me included). There are brazen violators everywhere…starting with red-light runners, bribe givers, tax cheats…..

The rules are for all to obey. No excuses.

cesar on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:21 pm 



After all the hullaballoo, I thought Joey DV was really after Abalos? Now he goes to the media and says that he is not filing a case agaianst abalos? Did Joey finally realize that he was indeed and should have recuse himself from bidding in the ZTE deal? Due to his affiliation with the JDV. So were it not for the senate hearing and the implication of his illegal bid in the ZTE deal, he would have been equally guilty as Abalos. HAving a hand in the pie not for them. Joey De V is has dirt in his hands too… The senate should have investigated him and castigated him in the same line with Abalos… Now why not? The ever trying hard senator Jinggoy should pose the same trying hard cross-examination technique with Joey!!! Don’t you think so?

If the senator did the same thing… they might actually find the BIG FISH TUNA from Joey. Who is the other Big fish and the cohorts in this Fiasco…. To top it all the senators might actually catch the whole school of fish involved in this Multi Million Scam….

On the other hand the senator who castigated Abalos probably are selective of who they want to pin down. Oh well…. That’s Politics…. Personal “interests” of those in power does not necessarily follow that this are interests of the people as a whole.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:28 pm 



Shaman, it would indeed, but the big if there is the conviction part. however, the justification for the second view is that the process has already started and the jursidiction of the impeachment court has already been invoked. The question then is, would it be good policy to allow throwing out the jurisdiction of the impeachment court just because the impeacheable official resigned? Like i said, this is one of the 2 views i am aware of on the matter and the SC had no ocassion yet to rule on the issue. What do you think is the better policy?

Devils, i highlighted the barangay because it is the fourth, fifth, six class municipalities or the “last mile connectivity” that has been harped on as the government’s justification for the NBN project as “national” in scope. the remote barangay hall pretty much sums that up. And the heck, many barangays do not even have a barangay hall and government proposes to supply then with computers to be “housed” under the mango tree?
And by the way, these private telcos do not exist for public service, that is merely secondary. And as long as no one complains, or rather no one of “significance” complains (if i remember it right, MLQ3 once complained ’bout his DSL connection in his column and, mlq3, did you get fast service then?), they go on their old profitable ways unless threatened with either better competition or government action.
If government bidding its NBN needs to private telcos would make them shape up, boy, would that not be wonderful for us mere mortals?

Zambaleno on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:32 pm 



Those people who’s reputation was tainted with corruption must quit politics nor hold any public office. people enter politics not from a sense of public service but in pursuit of personal power and advancement. corruption weakens the very structures of an organized society as it undermines the forces of law and order, and reduces public morale. In the long run, both economic and political developments become crippled. The most obvious effect of political corruption is a loss of public esteem for politicians and political life. The cynical view that ‘politics is a dirty business’ becomes a reality.

There is no saint in political world where everybody steals. They will probably not be caught since investigators are busy chasing other thieves, and even, if caught, the chances of prosecution and a severe penalty for such common crime will be low. Therefore,they steal. As everyone is now stealing, more taxes to the people to replace those stolen have to be acquired. as newly elected politician join the traditional politician, they too are trained how to steal, and the cycle continues. On the other hand, if they work in an entity where theft is rare and the chances of them being caught and punished are high,they will most definitely choose not to steal.

A contractor offers them a bribe to help him get a lucrative contract even though other contractor could have offered a lower price to the same project. A few hours later, they receive a telephone call from the Godfather who would have liked a cut of their bribe. He suggests that if they accept the bribe, they have a far way to go in politics. They take the bribe and share it with the Godfather, costs of the project rise and more money have to be spent on a contract which could have been obtained much cheaper. These additional costs are passed on to the people in the form of higher taxes which bring out burden to the economic costs, social implications and other rippling effects of the evil of corruption, it spreads uncontrollably, and economic costs rise. Corruption is not an absolute condition. It can range from acts of violence to rules being bent and a blind eye turned to acts that a completely moral society would consider offensive. The range of variations of corruption is as wide as the criminal minds that conceive. Now, Why should I pity Abalos if he resigned ,he need to answer for his crime!

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:40 pm 



Beancurd, i think KARAH is just getting some SLEEP. In the other THREAD, she was complaining about getting EYEBAGS from too much BLOGGING.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:53 pm 



What, in the Government’s track record, will assure me that the NBN system would be run efficiently? The Telepono sa Barangay? The so-called French Protocol?

Closer to Devils’ heart, who can argue against the benefits of an efficient railway system? But look at the Philippine National Railways.

What assurance is there that Devils’ marriage certificate will be finally uploaded even with the expensive NBN in place? What reason is there to believe that the Government will be able to digitize all its records even within the 20 years that it will take the Filipino people to pay off the Chinese loan? I checked the status of my SSS premium payments online last week and discovered that they have not uploaded my payments from November 2006 onwards. Enough of real time.

Why should I think that NBN will revolutionize the work ethics of the government bureaucracy?

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:58 pm 



Beancurd, personally, I would prefer that Abalos undergo impeachment proceedings. He should have been impeached a long time ago.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 3:59 pm 



Imagine your horror if you endure this line and when you get at the counter, they tell you Manila NSO is holding your document hostage. they can neither get to it, nor issue one themselves – Devilsadvc8

Why are we assuming that lack of a National Broadband Network is the problem? The bottleneck may be in the approval process (including background investigation) etc. The proper way to go about it is to (1) identify the existing process, (2) identify bottlenecks and improvements, (3) redefine the process (or organization), and lastly, identify areas where automation will help. Of course, interested vendors will be happy if you do the last part first.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:07 pm 



By the way, Beancurd, INE raised the matter of to whom should Abalos tender his resignation letter?

In corporate practice, an employee tenders his resignation to the appointing authority. Since the President appoints the Comelec Chairman, should the latter tender his resignation to the former? Does the fact that the Comelec chairmanship is a constitutional position have a bearing on the situaion? Should Abalos tender his resignation to Congress?

jaxius on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:14 pm 



beancurd,

if you would make an analogy of the impeachment process vis-a-vis the ordinary judicial process in the case of Abalos, I don’t think the jurisdiction of the “impeachment court” has already attached. Take note that the impeachment complaint hasn’t even been passed to the plenary nor approved by 1/3 of the House. Basically, the process is still in the preliminary investigation stage. At any time, there is the possibility that the complaint will not reach the Senate.

As to the question whether an impeachable official can still resign while undergoing trial in the Senate, that is another question. Because the impeachment court can also impose absolute disqualification from public office as a penalty, it seems logical that the impeachment court can proceed with the trial even if the officer has already quit his post. However, from a pragmatic point of view, it would seem prudent that the Senate should terminate the trial and just allow the courts to impose the appropriate punishment in a criminal case. The Senate can ill-afford to use its time trying the fitness of a person to hold public office. Stated otherwise, the disqualification to hold public office is better determined in a judicial proceeding rather than in a political one such as in an impeachment trial.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:19 pm 



But, the issue should definitely move on from the Senate/Media Circus — they are incapable of doing this right. They’ve proven that already. Beyond a shadow of doubt. Take out the BS politics and do the investigations properly…via the courts. – Geo

The Courts come at a later stage. In this Administration which likes to do things by stealth, the Senate (along with the Press) is one of the few sources by which our society gets to know relevant information about the government’s activities in a *timely* manner. On Paper, it should be the Ombudsman that should be performing that role, but you know how it is.

BTW, you never answered me — who gets to decide when the rules are too blind and that a certain “context” trumps the rules? – Geo

Everyone…and no one. In modern society, it cannot be any simpler than that.

Rom on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:28 pm 



INE: I don’t think Abalos has to submit his resignation letter to the President, except perhaps to inform the Prez. As to the “irrevocable” tag, that’s pretty meaningless. A resignation can be revoked only by the person resigning. So, even if he writes “irrevocable” but later changes his mind, he can’t be bound by his letter. Neither can the person resigning bind the person who has final authority to accept the resignation.

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:32 pm 



Beancurd, I see your point. Incidentally, that “last mile” problem isn’t an exlusive problem of the Philippines. Even the US are having problems hurdling that “last mile.” I linked a related article in a previous thread. The US tried to go the private route in hurdling the last mile, and wouldn’t you know it, their attempt went kaput.

cvj, shaman – both of you have a point. why am i assuming the problem is in the failure of automation and going online of govt data? and what assurances can we have that this network would indeed improve services dramatically? tough questions that the govt should’ve taken time to explain to us, taxpayers who will eventually pay for this network.

manuelbuencamino on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:35 pm 



cesar,

“Did Joey finally realize that he was indeed and should have recuse himself from bidding in the ZTE deal? Due to his affiliation with the JDV. So were it not for the senate hearing and the implication of his illegal bid in the ZTE deal, he would have been equally guilty as Abalos. HAving a hand in the pie not for them. Joey De V is has dirt in his hands too… The senate should have investigated him and castigated him in the same line with Abalos… Now why not?”

Basahin mong mabuti yun buong Section 5. Prohibition on certain relatives. ng RA 3019 (Anti-Graft and Corrupt Practices Act),

Don’t make the same mistake as Ponce Enrile. He only read that part of the law that supported his argument. Nagmukha siyang gago nung binasa sa kanya ni Joey yun exceptions.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:39 pm 



Shaman, i do not know whether there is any one person that abalos should give his resignation letter. i think, maybe, to the Comelec en banc, given its “independent” nature. But certainly not to the president and especially not requiring the consent to the resignation. what i believe is that no one should be made to serve involuntarily, including abalos, but that does not justify abandonment of office in case there is no one to mind the store in the meantime.

Jaxius, you raised good points. But if you will read the provisions of the constitution on impeachment, it is one seamless process consisting two stages, 1) the initiation stage which concludes with the transmittal of the articles of impeachment to the senate; and 2) the trial stage before the senate. the first one is as much a part of the “impeachment court” as the trial at the senate so that you cannot confine what we term as the “impeachment court” to the senate only. I do not even remember the constitution mentioning the word “impeachment court.”
It really boils down to the question of what is the better policy, regardless of whether the case is before the House or it is already with the Senate. In any case, it is the sound discretion of the houses involved that would justify termination of the impeachment process, not merely the fact of resignation.
Take the situation where at the trial before the senate or in the “preliminary investigation” before the house, Congress is at the brink of unearthing materially explosive evidence that they can only get through the impeachment process and would not otherwise be able to get through ordinary civil or criminal litigation, sound judgment dictates that they should continue with the process, at least until the evidence necessary for criminal cases to prosper is obtained. And contrary to some opinion by the high and mighty SC, my opinion is Congress should be the sole judge of that.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:46 pm 



Devils, i come from the vendor side of the business (over 18 years) and i can tell you that a lot of the time and effort spent by our industry is to generate wants and hyping up the next big thing. Sometimes the need is genuine but not all the time. I suppose that’s ok when it comes to gadgets like xbox, iPhone, text messages etc. Caveat emptor and all that. However, i believe it should be different when it comes to the people’s (i.e. the public’s) money.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:57 pm 



Why not to Congress, instead of Comelec “en banc”, since the former is the people’s direct representative?

Of course, involuntary servitude is unlawful, but I was wondering about the case of Brazil’s Collor de Mello whose resignation was rejected by Congress and who was impeached instead. I wish our Congress could do the same with Abalos.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:06 pm 



if the baranggay’s to be the basic unit of government, then it should be the first place anyone goes to, to transact government-related business. one stop shop. i’d like to just go to my baranggay hall to get my national id card (and renewing it can then also settle my paying traffic tickets, if any, and my community tax certificate), to pay my income tax, file documents needed to renew my passport or get birth certificates, etc. etc.

a kid who has no internet connection should be able to access the national library, etc. from the baranggay as a right. anyone should be able to get an immediate print out of laws, regulations, etc. relevant to their needs from the baranggay, i mean, the options and benefits are endless.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:09 pm 



shaman, constitutionally, a president is immune from suit while in office. so impeachment’s the only way, i believe that also applies to constitutional officers, sc justices and comelec comm., for example. only means of accountability while theyre in office.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:14 pm 



geo, i believe the inquirer.net was due to post the 16 step flowchart, it may be up in its special section on zte.

when sen. biazon was grilling neri on it, i was frustrated because you know, it’s not like overhead projectors havent been around for half a century. they could have projected it so everyone can follow along.

same thing applies to the process of amending bills. if you just had a couple of giant monitors and clerks on keyboards, they could say, hey, lets substitute this for that, everyone sees it as it happens, a printout’s made, etc.

another personal obsession i have is the stupid length of time it takes to even hold a vote. in the us congress, i believe they have a system of something like atm cards, when you vote, you insert your card, proof you’re there, and pick the yes, no, or abstain button. the results are tallied immediately on a screen.

it also then allows a record of who voted how for what and when, to made avaiable to the public.

recently i was talking to some permanent employees of the house and mentioned it, and they laughed. one said, its expensive. the other said, ah, theyd never agree because then they can’t change their votes…

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:17 pm 



beancurd, yes it got me a quick response, and so i forwarded everybody else’s complaints. i ended serving as a kind of clearing house for a while, for complaints. hope it helped some people, but goes to show you why media is so crucial here, sometimes its the only way anyone gets what should be basic customer service achieved.

my mother has been in consumer activism for something like 30 years and boy is it an uphill fight for people like her, even with a law she’s still perpetually having to remind people the “no return no exchange” policy is illegal.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:24 pm 



mlq3, I cannot agree with you more on the ideal situation in the barangay. But the realities are far from that ideal situation so it boils down to a question of priorities which should always be asked of government projects. At this time, providing computers in the barangays where there is nowhere to house it in the first place (unless it will be set up in private homes) or there is no access to electricity would just be a waste of taxpayers’ money.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:29 pm 



mlq3, in your vision of the barangay as the one stop shop, the first thing that should be done is to pilot such a set-up using existing telco infrastructure (via existing ISP). Start small, see first if it works and iron out the kinks. After it is successful in one pilot then do a larger pilot to see if the scheme works in a larger scale. Once a critical mass is reached, only then can we determine whether a barangay driven network deserves a separate backbone.

As to the internet-cafe for students, isn’t the public school a better venue for this? There, the equipment can be used for multiple purposes (including consolidating election results).

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:32 pm 



mlq3, that is one frustration i have with government in relation to media. when media complains, government and even private businesses respond immediately. when it is the ordinary person on the street, you are made to wait for your turn. That is where I do not agree with media’s claim of not being corrupt. When there is a line and an ordinary person is made to await his turn to be at the front, the same basic rule should also be accorded media complaints or complaints coursed through the media. They should be made to wait for their turn. but that is not the case and the media more often than note gets ahead of those lining up.
some try to make a distinction and argue that that is not corruption. my short answer to that is, well, substitute publicity for the bribe money that facilitates attention to your complaint and see if there is any difference.

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:40 pm 



Beancurd If you happen to drop by the Article of MLQ3 entitled: “The Empire Strikes Back”, you will find me there. It’s so funny to think that you zeroed-in on the ZTE deal (I think you better read my comments at the previous Blog). Do I smell PARANOIA and DELUSIONS in here? By the looks of it, you’re suffering from one of those.

Is there a written or unwritten RULE in this Blog of MLQ3 that PROHIBITS what opinion you say or you’re merely attacking my opinions for the simple reason that you disagree with it? That is so low. I would have enjoyed an exchange of views rather than a “misplaced condescending attitude.” Whether I’m being LEGALISTIC or not is my right, is it not?

The last time I heard most of the Commenters in here are OPEN-MINDED, but what I see in you is that you’re suffering from MYOPIA. Hey, this Blog Entry is not the ONLY Blog entry of MLQ3. Try to visit the other Blog Entries.

FYI: Whether you like it or not, I’m here to stay.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:47 pm 



“I wonder if it is just coincidence. I’ve been following this blog for a while but I have not read Karah before. Then just as the ZTE deal was about to become explosive and the counter-prop of the administration was in full swing, tadah! you have her here suddenly with blazing guns, so to speak. And now that the ZTE probe had gone pfft, she had gone pfft too. Is this just a coincidence or am I reading too much out of this coincidence? And is she not being too legalistic (she sounded exactly like Apostol in her arguments)? Last I heard, this is not the court of law, this space is the court of public opinion, ain’t it?” – Beancurd

Hmmmmm. What if she’s actually GMA (you never can tell, she’s certainly eloquent enough to be…)or maybe mini me – Luli? hahahahaha! hahahahaha! (ala Dr. Evil)

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:49 pm 



mlq3, who can argue against motherhood? Of course, all those endless benefits and possibilities are good. But, we are a poor country. We have more basic priorities. Getting a broadband backbone for the government is like a poor family spending its meager resources on luxuries. With the NBN project, the government just wanted to have the trappings of modernity and technological advancement which it could ill-afford, just like that poor family wanting to have the trappings of wealth.

For all we know, that kid in the barangay might not even have a classroom to go to, or might not even be eating 3 square meals a day.

Maybe, for us here in the city with a comfortable lifestyle, these technological advances can be taken for granted. But, if we asked the poor rural folks, I wonder if they would choose Internet connectivity over affordable health care services.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:49 pm 



Karah,

Hi, how are you? I was just kidding earlier, trying to scare beancurd.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:54 pm 



karah, good of you to be staying here for quite a while longer. but coincidences are coincidences, there is no disputing the facts. well for one advocating exchange of views, you certainly spared some labels for me. but that is ok.
we certainly had a good exchange on that common sense thing. And i think Shaman of Malilipot will agree with me on conversations such as the Sec, may 200 ka dito as having to be viewed in the context it is made or, as a sub-context, within the cultural backgound of those having the converstation. Otherwise, if i talk to an Indonesian (according to Shaman) distinguishing an ayam, for which i am referring to a dog, from a manok, which refers to neri, err chicken, then i might probably have my head bitten off by him if i insist on the distinction.

jaxius on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:57 pm 



Beancurd,

I don’t consider the whole impeachment process as seamless because not all impeachment complaints end up being transmitted to the Senate. It is characterized by two distinct stages, as you mentioned (as to the term “impeachment court”, take note that I enclosed the term in quotation marks in my earlier post and only picked it up from your post to which i replied to.)

We should distinguish between process and jurisdiction. Jurisdiction, as defined, is the power to try and decide a case. The House has no such authority but is merely empowered by the constitution to initiate the impeachment process. It does not act as a “court”. In the case of former US President Nixon, he resigned before he was formally impeached although the articles of impeachment have already been forwarded by the House Judiciary Committee to the plenary, just like Abalos.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:01 pm 



Beancurd, certainly I am a great believer in viewing things, both words and actions, in their proper context.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:02 pm 



karah, or maybe in the language of the lgbts, theoretically if you are a male, and one of them says to you “papa, may 200 ba ako dyan” despite he/she not being your son/daugther, maybe you can pretend to be his/her papa and give him/her an allowance of say, 200 golf balls?

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:03 pm 



cjv, re: school pc’s, yes. and a long long way to go. i was astounded when i recently visited adel tamano at pamantasan ng lungsod ng maynila which he now heads. the school does very well in the national board exams in various fields -but when i visited, about 2 weeks ago, they were about to install their very first set of pc’s for the students. three pc’s on that day.

letran, practically next door, has wifi for everybody and even the grading i do is all on an excel sheet and submitted thru the net to the admin.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:04 pm 



“Maybe, for us here in the city with a comfortable lifestyle, these technological advances can be taken for granted. But, if we asked the poor rural folks, I wonder if they would choose Internet connectivity over affordable health care services.”

Shaman, I actually come from the province, these poor rural folk will prefer food more than anything else but focusing on subsidies for “free” healthcare or feeding programs are probably short term solutions and will not be sustainable in the long run either. If we equip our civil servants to make them more effective, more efficient in their jobs – I’m sure this will translate to increased productivity, not to mention increase morale. I don’t believe all our civil servants are bad…some, if not most, are there good people just like us.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:06 pm 



ramrod, I think it was karah who scared you.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:06 pm 



beancurd, it is a situation wide open for abuse. thing is, media’s even more immediately accountable to the public than public officials. you think a journalist has crossed the line, you stop reading -and the journalist’s clout evaporates; take it further, and the paper/station loses readers/viewers. it’s a day-by-day referendum.

but as it is, the media is a megaphone. the pissed off consumer gets to yell very loud and the yell summons others who were also angry but didnt know what to do. there’s the potential benefit. the dark side is, the media could then warn officials/companies hey, we’ll turn on the megaphone unless….

as with media, and government, and even civic clubs, it boils down to checks and balances.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:07 pm 



ramrod, I didn’t say “free”. I said “affordable”.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:08 pm 



jaxius, do you not think that the question of dismissing the complaint should still be left to the sound discretion of the House, notwithstanding the resignation? Afterall, there is nothing in the constitution that says that if the official resigns after the filing of the complaint, then the process is deemed terminated. If the House has that discretion, then isn’t that an exercise of its jurisdiction? Just like a criminal case where the accused dies at any stage after his arrest. The court’s jurisdiction is not ousted or the proceeding automatically terminated by virtue merely of the death of the accused. It is the court’s disposition of the case that finally terminates it.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:16 pm 



everyone: if there was ever a luli internet brigade, they seem to have disbanded or decided it’s not worth their while.

those with pro anti or neutral gma views i think have proven they do so on their own and not because of other incentives.

which is not to say the minions of she who must not be named aren’t keeping tabs, but let’s leave it at that.

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:17 pm 



Beancurd Your context is in the “context of how you see things.” I don’t think it’s matter of whether somebody agrees with your or not. It’s a matter of how a person view and sees things.

Yes, I have a mouthful of words to say for people who think their opinion is that only opinion that exist in this Blog. The game is pretty simple – either you join in or give up. I chose to join in and with it my strategies of how I play the game. Don’t play the victim.

My point of view on the matter would border on “the legal aspects” of the said “little chitchat” between Abalos and Neri on the phrase: “Sec. may 200 ka dito.” You have your own opinion, I have mine. So don’t come saying that your opinion is better, okay. It’s so “cheap.” nahhhhhh

If I ask you this, would the HIS WORD (Abalos) against HIS WORD (Neri) scenario stand in Court? Tell me. As long as I read my name in some comment, I don’t back down. It’s all a game in here and I’m not even serious yet. Just gauging how people react and reply to certain “semantics.”

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:19 pm 



shaman,

Sorry about that, I was assuming what you meant by “healthcare” were the RHUs (rural health units) or centers, they actually do dispense free medicines to the rural areas and of course affordable vaccinations, etc. but you have to endure the long cue of course.

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:20 pm 



Ram I’m fine, thank you. I’ve been sleeping late for 2 days now because of blogging. When I looked at the mirror, lo and behold, I have eyebags.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:25 pm 



ramrod, I think it was karah who scared you. – Shaman

As i remember, it was Rego.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:31 pm 



ramrod, I didn’t say anything about a feeding program. Government can spend on means to increase the opportunities for rural folks to be more productive and augment their income – irrigation systems, farm-to-market roads, etc.

My personal experience with government bureaucracy may be different from yours. They may be good as persons, but their work ethics leave much to be desired. I don’t think there is an assurance that giving them Internet connectivity will, as Devils said, “dramatically” improve public services.

Meanwhile, rural folks are dying for lack of affordable health care.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:31 pm 



mlq3, the point is, government or businesses catering to the general public should treat persons or complaints equally, whether coursed through media or not. If there is a line, follow the line. And if media’s complaints get ahead of the line despite the long queue because it is the media, the media should not pretend that it did not bypass the process. It is in this light that i salute that councilor from davao (or somewhere down south) who was reported in the papers as having lined up in the emergency room despite his having been offered to be treated ahead of the persons on the line. But how many of us are ready to do that? How many in the media even acknowledge that they are getting ahead of the line to the detriment of those who have patiently endured the wait just to be told that we cannot help you? And they criticize corruption in government while not even being aware of the corruption that they wreak in the society.
As regards tuning into a different tv/radio station or not buying the papers, well, let me put it this way: in some situations, that as may be. but take the case of the medicines available in this country, you only get the cheapest and efficacious medicine at the mercy of the pharmaceuticals, but only to the extent of the choices that they give you. Thing is, if i cannot do without the papers, then i would settle for the best available even if i do not like it that much.

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:35 pm 



At today’s prices 329 Million USD could have bought 600,000 low-end PC’s for the students.

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:38 pm 



shaman, no arguing that point. true, but still, we also have to plan ahead.

Beancurd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:39 pm 



Karah, Well, talking legalese, is there not such a thing as positive testimony versus negative testimony? In such situation, which is supported by jurisprudence? yes, you guessed right. but who knows, with the present court, they might just overturn the prevailing doctrine.
But that is not to say that it is sufficient to convict beyond reasonable doubt which is a completely different animal.
By the way, semantics is dictated by context, otherwise, a meaningful conversation will not take place.

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:40 pm 



cvj, I said it in the context of ramrod’s post at 5:47pm, and when karah suddenly charged with guns blazing at Beancurd, he said, “Hi, how are you? I was just kidding earlier, trying to scare beancurd.”

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:42 pm 



“Artcle XI (Accountability of Public Officers). Section 2. The President, the Vice-President, the Members of the Supreme Court, the Memebrs of the Constitutional Commissions, and the Ombudsman MAY BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE ON IMPEACHMENT for, and conviction of, culpable violation of the Constitution, treason, bribery, graft and corruption, other high crimes, or betrayal of public trust. All other public officers and employees may be removed from office as provided by law, but not by impeachment.”

The essence of the an IMPEACHMENT is clearly stated in the above provision: TO REMOVE FROM OFFICE certain Public Officials from their position. Although it’s not EXPLICITLY said that “impeachment is deemed terminated” once the Impeachable Officer RESIGNS, it’s CRYSTAL CLEAR: How do you REMOVE a COMELEC CHAIRMAN if he’s not anymore the COMELEC CHAIRMAN? In the case of Abalos, how do you IMPEACH a Private Citizen? IMPEACHMENT is merely to REMOVE FROM POSITION the PERSON in QUESTION. Look at Section 7.

“Section 7. Judgement in cases of impeachment SHALL NOT EXTENED FURTHER THAN REMOVAL FROM OFFICE and disqualification to hold any office under the Republic of the Philippines, but the PART CONVICTED SHALL NEVERTHELESS be LIABLE and subject to prosecution, trial, and punishment, according to law.”

HOW DO YOU REMOVE A PERSON FROM HIS OFFICE IF HE/SHE DOESN’T OCCUPY THE OFFICE ANYMORE?

The Jurisdiction of possible CRIMINAL CASES (with CIVIL LIABILITIES) against Abalos would not be transferred to Ombudsman. Just like Erap, although he was not IMPEACHED, the time the Supreme Court a vacancy in HIS OFFICE, it automatically terminated the proceedings of the “aborted impeachment.”

Shaman of Malilipot on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:43 pm 



Well, mlq3, sure, later, very much later (and I don’t mean never), but not now.

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:50 pm 



Bean The “prevailing doctrine” is still the prevailing doctrine unless overturned. I would accept the decision once the VERDICT is handed and not speculate like a Judge or a Justice as some people always do. Beancurd, are you a Judge (an innocent question)? A mere “cloud of doubt” crumples the whole proceedings of a Criminal Case. Semantics is semantics whatever banana you might want to correlate it with.

Rom on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:51 pm 



karah:keep on trucking!

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:53 pm 



My point of view on the matter would border on “the legal aspects” of the said “little chitchat” between Abalos and Neri on the phrase: “Sec. may 200 ka dito.” You have your own opinion, I have mine. So don’t come saying that your opinion is better, okay. – Karah

In a context-free environment, anything goes, but this is hardly the environment in which those words were said. Behind that short statement “Sec. may 200 ka dito” is the background situation, the language conventions as well as the political and business culture and traditions that clarify the meaning of that statement.

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:57 pm 



Rom My wheels is quite slow. I’m just riding a GOLD CART (the one used by Abalos and Neri).

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:01 pm 



I know Shaman, but i deliberately ignored the context to suit my purpose. A lot of that going around.

Harry on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:02 pm 



karah:

hey, can i sit beside you in your golf cart?

harry

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:06 pm 



“Government can spend on means to increase the opportunities for rural folks to be more productive and augment their income – irrigation systems, farm-to-market roads, etc.” – shaman

I heard about this list before, yes in the SONA. I believe what you’re referring to are in place already, especially the healthcare part, I’m sure this has been part of the budget eversince, but of course I must admit there are some health centers that seem to be “forsaken,” specifically in Samar, mountainous areas, where all they have are condoms, I know because I used to donate all my samples there when I was just a lowly medrep. It would help though if these decisions were evaluated properly (empirically) and presented clearly to really dispel any doubts.

karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:10 pm 



Harry Sorry Luli’s beside me in the Golf Cart. If you like, get a rope, I’ll tie you to my cart and pull you.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:23 pm 



“Devils, i come from the vendor side of the business (over 18 years) and i can tell you that a lot of the time and effort spent by our industry is to generate wants and hyping up the next big thing. – cvj

Aha! I wasn’t able to see this earlier, now I know what to ask when the Sun Microsystems guy comes back.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:40 pm 



everybody:

Who’s familiar with the “we roam?” (pldt), is Globe’s “visibility” really better because it has 3G already not just edge/gprs? – This is still related to broadband…

cesar on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:44 pm 



manuel,

you must be refering to this… section 5 of 3019
“Provided, That this section shall not apply to any person who, prior to the assumption of office of any of the above officials to whom he is related, has been already dealing with the Government along the same line of business, nor to any transaction, contract or application already existing or pending at the time of such assumption of public office, xxx” (this was the exception cited by Joey…)

It should be noted also that,
1> when did the deal start? was it initiated before JDV entered Congress from the last term?
2> Was his company already dealing with the government on the same line of Business, before his Dad became speaker? How about the previous term of his dad?

The other part of the provision under the same section will not be applicable to Joey DV… as the concern here is…when was the bidding? Was it before or after? Wasn’t Joe DV Speaker on 2006? Consider also please that the proposal/bid of Joey DV in 2006 was unsolicited…

It so easy to say that he is part of the exception…analyze it perhaps….The exception is not in any way cumulative. Each exception cites different situations….not being covered by the other provisions wouldn’t mean that he is exempted already.

He may be in business, yes. But as dealings with the Government? Were there previous transactions? It started during his Dad’s previous term…which should be clearly a violation….the culmination of the deal was after the re-election. Did the election exonerate him from last term’s violation?

The senators seem to agree that he is exempted… but is he really?

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:44 pm 



karah,

I noticed Harry only comes in when you come in the blog, quite “stalkerishly?”

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:52 pm 



“He may be in business, yes. But as dealings with the Government? Were there previous transactions? It started during his Dad’s previous term…which should be clearly a violation….the culmination of the deal was after the re-election. Did the election exonerate him from last term’s violation?
The senators seem to agree that he is exempted… but is he really?” – cesar

The way I saw it from the beginning, this guy JDV3 has been directly/indirectly bidding/winning government contracts due to his father’s “clout” he may have fancied himself as an “unstoppable force” in this arena until he met with Abalos, the “immovable object” also in this arena.

Harry on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:59 pm 



been reading this blog for quite some time but am a passive reader. kinda sick and tired of politics so i don’t participate.

is there a possibility we discuss other topics other than politics in some future articles? it’s quite evident that everything is focused on gma, abalos, and neri.

at the end of the day, what we can contribute to society is not what we blabber about but what we do and act in our own little way. just my two cents.

harry

mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:06 pm 



harry, this is mainly a political blog, but will bear that in mind.

also, in inquirer current, i also bring up broader themes from time to time, you may want to check that out.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:12 pm 



Hi Harry, how are you? I’m not so much into politics either but because this case is all over the television, its become quite interesting. Good thing you came out, I was about to yell “Expecto Patronum!”

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:20 pm 



“been reading this blog for quite some time but am a passive reader. kinda sick and tired of politics so i don’t participate.”

kinda contradictory since Manolo’s blog is mainly a political blog. weird you’d been reading here for “quite some time” when you’re “sick and tired” of politics. maybe it’s karah eh? *wink*

lot of other interesting blogs out there. check out the top pinoy blogs, one out there might interest you. heck, check my blog if u want (nowhere near as interesting as the top blogs). but i do write abt other topics aside from politics. i’m more into poetry, prose, and philosophy.

Harry on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:20 pm 



mlq3:

thanks for the reply as well as for considering my suggestion. will check out inquirer current?

harry

Harry on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:25 pm 



ramrod:

i just read the blog entries to find new information and some opinions but my opinion i’d rather keep to myself. yes, the issue on the zte-nbn deal is all over the papers, the airwaves, and the net.

i’ll reserve my “expecto patronum” charm on the dementors (some of them are in this blog, kidding).

harry

cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:27 pm 



Harry, you can also check out my blog where i also feature musical performances by pretty Asian women.

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:53 pm 



This would be a shameless plug. i’ve redirected my link (for now) to my new blog at blogspot. im currently writing something. need feedback if its good or not. jz follow the link by clicking on my handle. thanks.

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:03 pm 



devils,

Hey, I was reading the other blog, the one with the “Bloody Sword” or something, it reminded me of a play I saw in college called “Rashomon” and I have Jonathan Livingston Seagull and The Little Prince.
I also saw cvj’s blog, very interesting…I would like to try making one myself, can blogs like this be made by non techi guys like me or you need to know some technical stuff?

ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:09 pm 



“i just read the blog entries to find new information and some opinions but my opinion i’d rather keep to myself. yes, the issue on the zte-nbn deal is all over the papers, the airwaves, and the net.”

I’ve been doing that myself, at least if you visit this blog I can pick out salient facts or opinions already summarized. Honestly, my colleagues enjoy my reports lately because of “political” situationers not just the usual numbers. The insights you gain are also priceless.

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:17 pm 



ramrod, creating a blog is very easy. there are a lot of free blog hosting service out there. i suggest you use blogspot. all it needs is that you have a gmail account. you’ll be guided step by step on how to create your blog.

as to what you’ve read in my friendster blog, it’s title is Blood-Spattered Sword and it’s a Ruruoni Kenshin fanfiction. I know Rashomon. It’s written by Akira Kurosawa. I’ve yet to read or watch his works. I know he’s an excellent filmmaker, I jz cnt find the time to look for his films.

this piece im currently writing will be extensive. i plan this to be a whole book, so id really appreciate some feedback while im jz starting.

vic on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:23 pm 



Punishment for serious crimes not intended for Rehabilitation but for Retribution. If everyone here can recall, Capital Punishment for Capital crimes just abolished in the Philippines, but still in Force in the U.S. Unusual and cruel punishments is Unconstitutional, and if the Courts determine that Incarcerating convicts in Jails not fit for Human habitations, then the Judge may order another form of punishments, such as house detention or may order the Government to fix the situation or relocate the inmates in some comfortable lodging…

Plunder and Official corruptions are serious crimes. Incarceration will act as the main deterrents plus lawsuit by the authorities to recoup all the losses plus punitive fines. People who commit such sustained crimes knew what they are doing, compares to impulsive criminals that could be mentally sick and can be rehabilitated… Crime and punishment what makes the human being behave. Take away the deserving punishments and we might as well live in the jungle…

TDC on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:23 pm 



“this piece im currently writing will be extensive. i plan this to be a whole book, so id really appreciate some feedback while im jz starting.devilADV”

write short stories for Helium(www.helium.com) and earn some $

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:35 pm 



TDC, thanks for the heads up. will appreciate it if you could drop by my blogspot and give me some comments on the piece im writing there. (will check out the site u mentioned)

DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:39 pm 



TDC, i just tried to check Helium’s page but I think they’re currently updating their site. you can’t enter the site unless they’ve released their version that is specifically tailored for your country

TDC on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:59 pm 



devil*adv:http://www.helium.com/

it’s available;they have so many writing contests going on!You should try!

I opened your blog.nice

Bencard on Thu, 4th Oct 2007 3:24 am 



vic, i agree. there should be no compromise with plunder. there is a good reason why this particular crime was originally punishable by death. a strong message that society will not tolerate or forgive such a heinous crime. using one’s office to steal hundreds of millions of pesos from the people ranks up there with first degree murder, rape with murder, and genocide, among other capital offenses. any kind of pardon (absolute or conditional) for these kinds of crimes, to me, is unacceptable.

retribution is an element of justice. a crime is meaningless without penalty and the penalty must be commensurate with the gravity of the wrongdoing. while rehabilitation is an object of correctional administration, this should be limited to non-capital offenders who have been proven to have committed their offenses without moral depravity or with conscious evil. surely, no one wants a psychotic serial killer, a habitual child molester or serial rapist roaming around free to inflict more harm to society.

it will help immensely in fostering a national discipline to treat criminals the same way without regard to their social status, or lack of it, or their wealth. no convict should be allowed to serve his sentence in his private mansion no matter how exalted his former position had been.

Bencard on Thu, 4th Oct 2007 3:34 am 



btw, and to equate advocating commensurate punishment for estrada for the crime he committed, and opposing pardon, to “beating up a dead horse” is pseudo-humanitarianism, if not aberrant sense of justice.

cvj on Thu, 4th Oct 2007 3:40 am 



Bencard, for the record, i also oppose pardon for Erap.

Bencard on Thu, 4th Oct 2007 4:26 am 



mlq3, i don’t understand why you insist that plunder is a “political” crime. it is not. there’s nothing political about using one’s office to steal a fortune that rightfully belongs to the people. as i said, plunder was originally punishable by death. the apparent intent of the law is, first and foremost, deterrence. a pardon sends a wrong message. for a nation that has been reeling from the onslaught of rapacious public servants for so long, conviction of a former president is a whiff of fresh air from a rotting carcass, only to be rendered naught by an act of political expediency. think of the lesson that could be learned, from an appropriate retribution, by future plunderers, and individuals inclined to commit graft and corruption, from a lowly janitor all the way to the chief executive, chief justice of s.c., speaker of the house and senate president?

i have no reason to doubt, mlq3, your sincerity and zeal in your desire to fight graft and corruption, especially in high places of our society. convicting a former president was a breakthrough, an almost impossible task in a society such as ours. we should not let it go to waste.

Bencard on Thu, 4th Oct 2007 4:34 am 



cvj, duly noted. thanks.

DevilsAdvc8 on Thu, 4th Oct 2007 10:19 am 



Bencard, if the original sentence for Plunder was death, and the foremost intent was deterrence, how come no one was deterred all these years?

and don’t mind me. I agree with you as well, that pardoning serves nothing except encourage more of the same. i think we should even up the ante and sentence plunderers to death by slow roasting.

inodoro ni emilie on Thu, 4th Oct 2007 4:39 pm 



“death by slow roasting.”

ummm, yummy. let’s start with the baboy.

Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 5th Oct 2007 10:59 am 



I agree with Bencard that plunder is not a political crime. It’s just that it’s the politicians who commit plunder that are put in the limelight. If you come to think of it, businessmen who cheat on taxes bigtime are plunderers themselves.

miniclip4 on Sun, 2nd Mar 2008 2:33 pm 



ano bayan wlang kwenta wla nman ung lungsod quezon songs

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