The Empire Strikes Back
October 1, 2007 by mlq3
Filed under Daily Dose
Update 2:13 pm In a comment on her blog, Ellen Tordesillas says the President’s husband arrives back home tomorrow.
Update 1:42 pm Atty. Gabriel Villaroel, lawyer of Abalos, says the ex-Chairman will file damage suits versus Jose de Venecia III; versus Romulo Neri; and also, a perjury suit versus Romulo Neri.
Update 12:57Â Surrounded by his family, Benjamin Abalos, introduced by Benhur, speaks: (shrieks of support from loyalists):
Good Afternoon, specially to my townmates from Mandaluyong many barefoot and in slippers, here even with the bad weather. Thank you for coming to this press conference I called to let our countrymen know how I truly feel about issues and controversies involving my honor, my work, and the privacy and tranquility of my family. It’s been a week since I appeared at the Senate, despite counsel of lawyers and friends, expecting they’d be fair and statesmanlike. I was sorely mistaken, not treated fairly; limited to what they wanted to hear; in these few days of consultation of family and friends, I have come to the painful determination to separate my person from the office I hold. Ladies and gentlemen, I have resigned… (screams of outrage from audience) effectively immediately. However, let not my detractors feast on this… I am not admitting guilt and I am not giving up on my determination to clear my name. I am doing this to spare the Comelec. October 20 election will be detached from my problems…. And this proves I am not dangling so-called political debts… or that administration is out to protect me… Forty years ago I entered politics… and in support of the reasons I entered, that’s why I am resigning…. I am doing this to prevent a long drawn-out impeachment process… Thank you to colleagues in government for comfort all these years… Thank you to my family… I am all the more determined to continue my crusade to clear my name and reputation and dispel the lies… The fight isn’t over! (cheering) However long the darkness lasts, there will be a beautiful dawn, we shall meet again, heads raised high, in a new dawn. Thank you.
The Romans had a term for this sort of thing: falling on one’s sword. He spared himself the risk of an impeachment trial and conviction; and he avoided the opportunity to spill the beans on the President. Benhur’s lease on political life, too, has been given a reprieve, which in the end may have been the clincher. Charges will now be in the hands of the (ta-dah!) Ombudsman.
Update 12:49 TV reports a mass going on with 500 supporters at the residence of Chairman Abalos, and he will then make a statement. Abalos looks calm and collected, Benhur Abalos grimacing and frowning.
Update 10:57 am: News vans arrived and began setting up at the House of Representatives this morning, in expectation of a stormy session this afternoon. Congressmen have been trickling in to endorse the impeachment complaint versus Chairman Abalos. Word is, an informal head count by Abalos’s family indicates the proponents of impeachment have the numbers. The Speaker has gone on record releasing members of the House from their loyalty to the party line -turning impeachment into a “conscience vote.” The Chairman has announced he is holding a press conference at noon, and there is talk that rather than face an impeachment, he will resign. Others believe he will, instead, release a bombshell to try to derail the brewing impeachment.
***
This is, perhaps, the longest text message I’ve ever received, sent by a Palace loyalist. I assume it represents the emerging party line (which has taken them long enough to put together!) and therefore, this message bears close scrutiny concerning those the message absolves and defends and those it condemns:
Neri must be compelled to talk. He’s invoking Exec Priv bec he wants d public think he s protecting GMA. Neri started by telling media he will talk about d bribe offer n d proper forum bec he wants d senate 2 investigate him. at d senate he invoked Exec Priv. Neri s slowly poisoning d mind of d public so dey wud suspek pres s involved. He’s blackmailing admin. 2 protect JDV’s speakership. GMA tried 2 cancel NBN when she met ChinaPres n APEC but he threatened 2 cancel all other future investments f she does. D suspension of all d China supported Agri proj. worth USD 1.3B s just d start. Facts:China appointed ZTE 2 implement d NBN proj. ZTE contracted-Multimedia telephony (4merly owned by JDV3 & sold 2 Ricky Razon n 2003) 2 b their Manila counterpart. JDV3 tried 2 steal it thru Neri, a JDV puppet. Neri, issued a comfort letter 2 JDV3 so he can raise funds & pressure ZTE 2give him d contract instead of Multimedia. When he failed even w/ his father’s power pushing, he decided to go 2 media & opposition. In JDV3’s testimonies he said he went to see ZTE several times but never said he went 2 DOTC 2 push his offer. Abalos s d broker of ZTE n getting China 2 appoint ZTE. Abalos stands to earn P200M frm ZTE. JDV3 thought Abalos can convince ZTE 2 move him what razon got. Razon sought d help of FG 2 stop JDV3. MVP also tried 2get a share of d biz but Razon wont let him. N return, PLDT paid d UP prof P1M 2 make d study dat wil put d NBN-ZTE look bad. PLDT s funding all d bad PR on Razon & giving d opposition senators d bullets 2 kill d NBNZTE. NBN-ZTE s nothing but a fight of greedy pipol but could cause enormous economic loss 4 d country.
The message places the President as the heroine, and Enrique Razon as one of the aggrieved parties, and pits the Presidents versus the Speaker and the Philippines as the victim of Chinese dictation (as for the Chinese government itself, it’s issued diplomatically impeccable, vanilla statements: China closely monitors ZTE probe, though there is speculation the President might cancel her upcoming trip to China: Palace: No word yet on cancellation of Arroyo’s China visit).
I think this long text message suggests the emerging Palace view as to those who are allied on one side (its side), and how it’s lashing out at former allies it now considers on the other side.
Consider this part of the proceedings last Wednesday:
Abalos: I have here copy of letter, my counsel secured….Addressed to Mike Defensor stated it may interest to know that ZTE a reputable firm in China, responded to this undertaking and consequently, Chinese government designated it as NBN “frime†contractor.
Lacson: Mr de Venecia?
JDV3: This is 1st or 2nd time I’ve heard this in 3 days. Why is Abalos involved in NBN? To rebut him, I divested my shares in multimedia telephony, in 2003, bought by Anscor, Ricky Razon… I have documents that show in 2004 supply contract between my former company and ZTE with regards to vendor contract. I don’t need Abalos to lobby for me because I already know ZTE.
Note that JDV3 says he sold out to a group composed of the Sorianos and Ricky Razon (and note the connection to the text message I quoted in its entirety).
Much later in the same hearing, this came out:
Pimentel: I understand you’ve incurred the ire of some business people, because of your stand of privatization of arrastre service?
Neri: There’s a monopoly, I favored allowing Harbor Center to compete, as our containter fees among highest costs in the world for containers…
Pimentel: Among those angry is Ricky Razon?
Neri: Well, met him at reception for Equitorial Guinea president, Speaker’s mother-in-law’s house, Forbes Park, it was there he accosted me, in effect telling me, in effect, you will allow Harbor Center to operate over my dead body.
Those familiar with the inner circle of the President know that Enrique Razon wields great influence. Some have gone as far -and this inference can be drawn from Neri’s testimony- that Razon, whose resume includes interest in container and port management, publishing and printing, etc (he got into publishing, it seems, when the Sorianos sold him the Manila Standard; he then further acquired Today to form The Manila Standard-Today) was influential enough to get Neri removed from the director-generaliship of NEDA because he wanted arrastre services liberalized (Razon has shown his infighting skills in this department in the past).
In other words, according to those claiming to be in the know, it was Neri’s decision on the ports issue that got him moved out of NEDA, and it had nothing to do with ZTE which, after all, Neri ended up signing off on.
One source went as far as saying that as far as JDV3’s testimony that Multimedia Telephony was sold by JDV3 and now owned by Razon, the Sorianos, Server, etc., is true; a source mentioned Nono Ibazeta, now president of Psalm, formerly our ambassador to Iraq as a “padrino” but of what, exactly, was never clear (But as for the connection between the two? Ibazeta was ambassador to Iraq; Razon was appointed by the President a member of the Public-Private Sector Task force on the Reconstruction and Development of Iraq: an investigative reporter would be licking their chops over such a lead) .
And there’s more: Arroyo okayed talks with ZTE on NBN before NEDA review. This compounds the issue.
But the combination of Neri disappointing those expecting him to tell all, and yet, the obvious lack of celebration on the part of the Palace and its partisans, brings up something blogger chizjarkace wrote:
Even after being urged by some senators that yesterday was the day Neri could do the country a great favor by not hiding under the executive privilege, he still insisted that he was only following Ermita’s order.
That was a clear sign of Neri’s loyalty to the administration, but is the administration loyal to him? I don’t think so. In fact Ermita just denied that he was the one who ordered Neri to invoke the privilege. If Neri wasn’t lying about it then Ermita is. Neri should take that as an indication that even how much he shield Malacañang, he is not assured to get the same protection. Who knows, if the controversy becomes even bigger, he might be the next fall guy for the couple in the palace.
As Justice Isagani Cruz opined,
Romulo Neri appears to be the most believable of the three witnesses, considering his clean living image and his magna cum laude academic credentials from UP and the MBA degree from the University of California. I am disappointed, however, that when asked about President Macapagal-Arroyo’s possible involvement in the scandal, he evaded the question and invoked her—not his—“executive privilege†in obedience to Secretary Eduardo Ermita’s instruction. Some persons may be honest but not necessarily brave.
The Ignatian Perspective pens a spirited defense of Romulo Neri, and encourages him to withstand the tremendous pressures he’s undeniably being subjected to, by all sides. Ricky Carandang, in his blog, says those disappointed with Neri fail to see that what he has revealed, under oath, is damning enough (something also said in a recent Inquirer editorial by the way). As Carandang puts it,
I know many are disappointed at former NEDA Secretary Romulo Neri’s performance at Wednesday’s senate hearing on the ZTE Broadband deal, but I think he said a mouthful…
Despite being informed of the bribe offer, Arroyo eventually approved the ZTE broadband deal.
On its face, the fact that a cabinet level officer reported a bribery attempt in connection with the deal should have been enough cause for Arroyo to stay away from it. It should have also been grounds for Neri to refuse to nominate te ZTE deal. And yet, despite the bribe offer, that’s exactly what they did.
Not only is that improper, that’s illegal.
What should have happened is that Arroyo should have referred the matter to the Ombudsman and out of a sense of propriety, refused to entertain the ZTE proposal. Neri should have either refused to sign the April 20 letter or –if he were somehow being pressured to sign it– resigned.
Now, like some chess maneuver, Benjamin Abalos is being sacrificed as Malacanang circles the wagons around Arroyo.
But what we’ve learned is that Arroyo knew that Abalos was pushing the ZTE deal as early as October. She was also aware that a senior cabinet member was claiming that Abalos attempted to bribe him. In other words, she had knowledge of two illegal acts pertaining to the ZTE deal prior to approving it.
Many people were disappointed that Neri didn’t somehow implicate Arroyo in all this. They suspect, with good reason, that the subsequent conversations that Neri refused to talk about would indicate the extent of her involvement in ZTE. And they would be right. But what people don’t seem to realize is that already, Neri’s testimony has damned his president. And possibly himself as well.
Yesterday, a dramatic headline appeared in the Inquirer: Neri was ready to talk about ZTE. The revelations, which go beyond the usual two-source requirement but lists four sources, are quite astounding:
According to the four sources of the Inquirer, Neri was ready to answer the senators’ questions when Sen. Joker Arroyo intervened. (The sources all declined to speak on the record in deference to the gag rule governing executive sessions.)
Arroyo reportedly made a motion to allow Neri to avail himself of the legal counsel of his choice.
“I think he tried to help†was how a source explained Arroyo’s purported move.
On the phone last night, Arroyo denied that he had intervened….
After Arroyo’s motion, Budget Secretary Rolando “Nonoy†Andaya Jr. entered the members-only Senators’ Lounge, according to the Inquirer sources.
Andaya, who succeeded Neri in the budget department, came in supposedly to act as the latter’s lawyer.
A source said the senators had an argument about the presence of Andaya, who, some insisted, should not be acting as Neri’s lawyer because he was also a member of the Cabinet.
“It’s hard to predict what he (Neri) was going to say, but he was about to talk. I think it’s the presence of Nonoy that stopped him,†one source said…
…Inside the Senators’ Lounge, Neri began to experience chills, and by one observer’s account, it might have been partly because he was afraid.
The sources could not explain how Andaya got into the picture, but he was seen arriving at the Senate a few hours before the senators decided to take Neri to the executive session.
“Basta dumating na lang, umupo doon (He just arrived and sat there),†a source said.
The sources said Andaya told the senators not to press Neri to talk because the latter was sick.
“Then kinalabit na niya si Neri,†a source said…
…The executive session was over in less than 30 minutes.
The story led to angry replies: Joker denies he blocked Neri’s ZTE deal exposé. And to the Palace laying the basis for a possible non-appearance in the future: Palace exec: Neri sore at media for sowing ‘intrigues’. After all, I have nothing more to say on broadband deal–Neri.
(update: Jarius Bondoc has taken an unprecedented step for a columnist, revealing his source and what the source told him; originally, he was going to hold a press conference but instead, the information appeared in his column this morning; because the Star website’s links are wacky, I’m reprinting the column in full):
I understand why Neri couldn’t talk
GOTCHA By Jarius Bondoc
Monday, October 1, 2007I called Romy Neri right after testifying Sept. 18 in that first Senate hearing on the ZTE scam. It was our tenth talk about the issue since Apr. 20, when The STAR ran my first of a series of articles. I pried why he didn’t show up, if he was under any threat of harm, and when he’ll reveal all he knows. From his replies it was clear he was charily weighing the consequences. There’s a time and place for everything, he mused, then asked if what he has narrated to me thus far would “incite another EDSA.†I said I didn’t know, but that I do wish the Senate inquiry would spark a wave of reforms, starting with clean elections. He shared the dream, but doubted if it would come true soon. Our talk eventually led to sacrificing for the sake of the nation. He said Joey de Venecia was brave to implicate big names, adding that if push comes to shove the young whistleblower fortunately has a rich dad to fall back on. “I’m not affluent,†Romy stated the obvious. Neither am I, I reminded him. Whereupon, he shot back: “Oh, but you’re a journalist, you’re supposed to be dedicated to the truth.â€
Yes, in this calling our first instinct is to truth and justice, at all costs. So with Romy’s words in mind I must disclose what he has told me. I know I might get him and myself into deep trouble with powerful persons. But that is journalism. Too, in my hierarchy of values, God is first, country next, family and friends third, and myself bottom. Patriotic duty calls.
Romy bared many frightening things when he called me morning of Apr. 20. I had written that the government was rushing to award the ZTE contract the next day in Boao, China, and that the NEDA, which he headed then, had approved the overpriced telecoms supply in a huff. Before I could ask anything, Romy blurted three items in succession: “This deal was the handiwork of Ricky Razon and Comelec chief Benjamin Abalos … I warned President Arroyo about this, and also told Speaker Jose de Venecia Jr. … Abalos tried to bribe me P200 million.â€
I was stunned, and asked him to start over again by answering some basic questions. Like, how the NEDA got involved in this, and why a build-operate-transfer project suddenly became a negotiated supply purchase. He said “NEDA had to make an evaluation any which way.†Too, the law “allows the President to waive ODA (overseas development assistance) rules in a bilateral or government-to-government agreement.†He stressed that NEDA had no capacity to determine any overpricing, then explained the three steps in any NEDA project review.
Three times Romy repeated he had warned Arroyo about the deal. He told her about the bribe offer, and she allegedly replied “then don’t accept it, but work on the approvals just the same.†He said Arroyo kept blaming Joey for the mess that was then brewing.
The culprits in this deal, he said, are “ZTE Corp., Razon, Abalos — and one more….†When I asked why his NEDA approved the ZTE proposal when he knew all along it was stinky, he said, “GMA was pushing it, and it’s our job to process.†With pain in his voice, Romy said he had almost resigned the day before.
“My life is in your hands,†Romy cautioned towards the end. He said Abalos had wiretapped one of his staff, and Razon had once threatened him at a cocktail party hosted by the Speaker.
Before he hung up, Romy said that my exposé had the potential to mar the administration’s chances in the May election. It was so explosive, he counseled, so I must be very careful. He also said he would fire off a Letter to the Editor to clarify his role, in view of the sensitive info he had just shared.
I expect Romy to get mad at me initially. He already did because of my column last Monday, which his friends said put him in peril for hinting at what he might testify to. I apologized to him Tuesday, explaining that I intended his potential tormentors to realize, for his safety, that some other persons and I know what he knows. Too, that I wanted corroboration of Joey’s testimony.
I also expect Romy to understand in the end. He was feverish and coughing when he testified Wednesday. The media have since praised him for boldly divulging Abalos’s bribe attempt, but also pilloried him for hedging on matters involving higher officials. Some even mocked him for downplaying his role at NEDA as presidential co-chair of major projects, making it look like he wasn’t worth a P200-million payoff to begin with.
But then news reports have it that Romy was ready to bare all during the executive session at 9 p.m., just that he was having chills. I pray I can help him with this. Before the hearing I offered Romy a prayer for fortitude. He said he was more courageous than us. I don’t doubt it.
My column today,Should thuggery trump secrecy? tackles this dramatic story of an “intervention” in the Senate’s executive session (I translated “kalabit” as “nudged,” which may or may not impart the proper imagery). It is a story that suggests those inclined to sympathize or at least show compassion towards Neri, may be on to something, and that the new official line he has nothing more to say, is to prevent his saying anything further. The man didn’t just fold because the pressure was intense; the pressure may have been applied persistently and in a manner that represents an institutional assault on the senate itself. This morning, at least one senator is of a similar view: Lacson: Andaya lawyered for Neri during call for exec meet.
And, bearing in mind what Ignatian Perspective and Ricky Carandang wrote, blogger Slap Happy ties it all together with the reports on the Senate’s Executive Session:
In fact, the mere notion that he cited Executive Privilege was to keep everybody in bated breath over what he has to say. It’s like his way of telling the Senators, “I have something, and boy oh boy will you love this, but wait, they might go after me after this so you have got to assure me safety.”
I think this safety clause should be made before he changes his mind, lest we suddenly read the papers tomorrow and find that he has flown out of the country.
All of this talk had stemmed from Neri’s appearance in an executive meeting of the Senators who were investigating the NBN Deal.
In an article from Inquirer.net, Neri was supposed to start talking had not someone intervened and allowed him to have legal representation for the meeting, and then Budget Secretary Rolando Andaya appeared and said that he was appearing on Neri’s behalf.
This was when they noticed Neri getting the chills or feeling sick or something. The guy must be really scared with the information he holds.
Pretty much like what i have written earlier, this has become more of like a soap opera where the plot thickens and characters with significant issues suddenly appear.
If the rumors are true, and what he indeed knows will blow up in the executive office faces, i think it is our moral duty to protect and impose upon Neri the moral ascendancy to speak up and correct what he sees is wrong.
Since these hearings will resume, yesterday’s Inquirer editorial imparts some advise on how such hearings can be better handled:
The Senate must review its procedures. The lowest point was Richard Gordon acting like a petulant child, insisting on adding a full hour to the proceedings because he craved television time, when even his usually fractious colleagues had decided to go into executive session. Gordon wouldn’t even give the chairmen of the committees, Sen. Alan Cayetano in particular, the basic respect due a chairman. We have seen many moments of political degeneracy in our recent Senates, but Gordon’s was among the most galling debasements of the Senate. Miriam Defensor-Santiago’s slur on an entire civilization came quite close in disgracefulness.
The Senate has no apologies to make for seizing on the ZTE-NBN issue and following the money, as investigators of Watergate were once advised. They are doing their job—but so badly as to be incompetent. They must learn to ask proper questions, which requires teamwork, and they must show they know as much as—if not more than—wily executive officials trying to prevent their finding out the truth.
But it goes beyond that: the Senate must not shrink from a confrontation with the Executive, not only on the basis for invoking executive privilege, but on its possible intrusion into the executive session.
And if it’s true that ‘GMA allies ready to sacrifice Abalos’, is a premature feeding frenzy worth it? Once you pick Abalos’ political carcass clean to the bone, then what? Or sustain the pressure, and investigate all the way to the top? Update 12:12 pm: however, the Speaker has gone on record releasing his partymates from party loyalty or discipline on this issue, making their choices on whether to sign on to impeachment or not, a “conscience vote.” Since party discipline is the ultimate line of defense, this suggests the Speaker’s implicitly favoring impeachment. The Speaker’s expected to endorse the impeachment complaint to the Committee on Justice this afternoon or tomorrow, which means it could then gather steam, with congressmen trickling in to sign on.
On another note, in Inquirer Current John Nery clarifies some misreported details; this made me review my liveblogging account and whew, at least he wasn’t referring to my (terse) account:
Estrada: you said, Mystery Man was Atty. Arroyo. When did you first see him?
JDV3: earlier this year, Wack-Wack, it was Atty. Arroyo with Abalos, Jimmy Paz, Quirino de la Torre, Ruben Reyes and Leo San Miguel.
Estrada: What were exact words Atty. Arroyo told you?
“Back off,†says JDV3.
Estrada: “Back off†were exact words? In presence of Abalos, etc? I have a waiter friend there, can you demonstrate how it was done?
JDV3: May I use seatmate as model? (giggle) shoves finger in face of Suplico and yells, “Back off!!â€
And also, here, my account seems OK, too:
Santiago: I am not interested in that project. For record China invented civilization in the East, but they also invented corruption that’s why these Chinese like inviting people to golf, etc. As officials we know we’re being invited not for our good looks… On record, let me put it on record: I resent being made party to this squabble! You’re just fighting over kickbacks! You’re wasting Senate time! (Santiago leaves Senate)
11:13 Cayetano: Noted.
Speaking of these liveblogging efforts, please refer to Achieving Happiness who also covered the hearing. And Rasheed Abou-Alsamh points out something we should bear in mind:
It is not that often that people in developing countries get to see non-elected government officials squirm on live television while they are relentlessly grilled by elected representatives of the people. And it is a scene that I have never seen happen in an Arab country.
You know, anything can be liveblogged, check out Jalajala Rizal liveblogging a fiesta.
Meanwhile, Carmen Pedrosa continues to find every which way to keep justifying her recent trip to Burma and thus, her role in coddling the junta.
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Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 8:00 am
Re: “I have nothing more to say on broadband deal” –Neri.
Nothing more to say? Have they chopped off his tongue too?
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 8:32 am
We officially open at 9am si i still have time to read and contribute to this blog.
I honestly want to know whats going on inside GMA’s mind right now. The way I profile her is that she is your typical daddy’s girl always trying to please by coming home with stars on her hands and kindergarten drawings. Eventually evolved into bringing home straight As and perhaps medals, etc. She probably grew up (or not) working really hard to overcompensate for an apparent disparity from the way we look at ideal women by looking smart, sounding smart, and telling everybody about it the way valedictorians do in their speeched during graduations. Now, she’s the president and all grown up (still not) its a series of valedictory addresses again, but this time this is real life and things don’t stop after the speech. But this is putting things simply.
What is more important are her intentions, her motives.
I for one, in a past life have sold my soul to the devil in order to close high level deals just to see to it that my company survives, to get the budget to pay for employees and ensure that their families survive for another year, next year is another story.
What if in her quest for achievement she did the same thing? In her quest for more jobs, she saw rapid development of infrastructure, in her quest for access to updated technology, she went for the NBN broadband deal (no matter what the consequence), (which by the way Mar Roxas referred to as a mere “intercom†really showed his ignorance). At times, because of experience I am slow to condemn people who are given the opportunity to lead, to have the survival, the future of people dependent on your capability to produce results (and fast).
I am not above if its in the interest of getting a big account/deal and seeing the joy in my people’s faces entails jumping off a perfectly good plane thousands of feet it the air, foolishly go down a steep ravine on a dare, sink to the depths of the sea, fight off an extremely strong wriggling, jumping, sea monster, endure the fatigue of climbing the highest mountain (or so it seems), and inspite of an optical handicap attempt to hit a small white projectile around two inches in diameter into a hole more than a hundred yards away. Add daring to go to dark, cold, places and gearing up your stomach to survive the sight of ill dressed women writhing in pain while all around are sounds of bacchanalian decadence.
Of course I’m talking about skydiving, rapelling, scuba diving in Tubataha, Marlin fishing, climbing Mt. Apo, playing golf, and a night in Pegasus.
My point is, my intentions were good…
Ellen Tordesillas on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 8:55 am
Manolo, delayed thank you the live blogging of the Senate hearings. What a big help!
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 9:05 am
Agree! The Senate must not do a Neri.
Arbet on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 9:16 am
My column today,Should thuggery trump secrecy?…
Wrong link?
ricelander on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:45 am
It’s spilling; here’s Jarius Bondoc:
“…Romy bared many frightening things when he called me morning of Apr. 20. I had written that the government was rushing to award the ZTE contract the next day in Boao, China, and that the NEDA, which he headed then, had approved the overpriced telecoms supply in a huff. Before I could ask anything, Romy blurted three items in succession: “This deal was the handiwork of Ricky Razon and Comelec chief Benjamin Abalos … I warned President Arroyo about this, and also told Speaker Jose de Venecia Jr. … Abalos tried to bribe me P200 million.â€
I was stunned, and asked him to start over again by answering some basic questions. Like, how the NEDA got involved in this, and why a build-operate-transfer project suddenly became a negotiated supply purchase. He said “NEDA had to make an evaluation any which way.†Too, the law “allows the President to waive ODA (overseas development assistance) rules in a bilateral or government-to-government agreement.†He stressed that NEDA had no capacity to determine any overpricing, then explained the three steps in any NEDA project review.
Three times Romy repeated he had warned Arroyo about the deal. He told her about the bribe offer, and she allegedly replied “then don’t accept it, but work on the approvals just the same.†He said Arroyo kept blaming Joey for the mess that was then brewing.
The culprits in this deal, he said, are “ZTE Corp., Razon, Abalos — and one more….†When I asked why his NEDA approved the ZTE proposal when he knew all along it was stinky, he said, “GMA was pushing it, and it’s our job to process.†With pain in his voice, Romy said he had almost resigned the day before.
“My life is in your hands,†Romy cautioned towards the end. He said Abalos had wiretapped one of his staff, and Razon had once threatened him at a cocktail party hosted by the Speaker…”
Here’s the link: http://www.philstar.com/index.php?Opinion&p=49&type=2&sec=25&aid=20070930131
gibraltar on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:00 am
see jarius bondoc’s column today at the star. he is telling all that neri told him. grabe
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:02 am
OF ZTE
With Senators being useless about acquiring facts, this is where it all boils down to: spin. It’s amazing that Pinoys don’t only need the three Rs to get somewhere in life. They also need the ability to keep their heads above all the bull shit.
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:07 am
Good for Bondoc. I’ve been thinking that Abalos could be another Chavit, but Bondoc might just have a better idea how to solve this problem: sincerity.
indoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:12 am
gibraltar:
lyeah, read bondoc’s article, too. i wonder why mlq3 did not give due attention of it in here.
bondoc has pointed to lord voldemort’s participation, calling “he who shall not be named” as “one more”.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:49 am
I read Bondoc’s article also but I have a different view. What Neri told him was in confidence and he should not have revealed anything without Neri’s expressed permission. I doubt his motives are anything but selfish ambition…it was irresponsible for him to put Neri’s life in peril just for an uncorroborated story. Unless he uses himself as a shield and takes a bullet for Neri he’s just plain irresponsible.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:57 am
“Nothing more to say? Have they chopped off his tongue too?”
MBW, before they chopped off his tongue, they chopped his balls off first. then they proceeded to chop off his tongue, sew tight his lips, and are now making a bargain for his soul.
Neri could still signal for help by sign language. But man, in all this, no one has yet assured safety for his family. The guy will not talk unless we all hold a vigil at his house.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:06 pm
ellen, coming from you, that makes the carpal tunnel and backache worth it!!
arbet, inquirer.net screwed up links to me and bernas, it’s fixed.
inidoro, was rushing this am, have attached bondoc’s article. what he’s done is either very, very brave or very, very rash depending on your perspective. he has revealed a source without the source’s permission. this could destroy him as a journalist or even cost him his life, so it’s a brave move. personally i’m glad he decided to write it rather than hold a presscon. it makes it impossible to kill neri at this point, and that could justify the revelation. but, it could also permanently shut up neri, so it’s a gamble. a writer is often only as good as his sources and when you reveal a source, it’s a big, big move, and it will affect all writers. but jarius believes it’s for the good of the country, so… we shall see.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:10 pm
Ramrod, agree with you on that one. what a selfish bastard. he washes his hands and says that his intention was to let Neri’s enemies know that he knows and someone else knows what Neri knows (so that its useless killing Neri). but damn, ambition rings clearly on that article. journalists with more integrity knows above all else never to print when sources are unwilling to give permission. as common sense dictates that w/o permission given, the source could just as well dispute what the journalist wrote and claim otherwise. isn’t the rule of journalism protect your sources above all else?
Bondoc, are you blinded by ambition not to see that the admin can jz as easily off you and Neri and care less abt that other someone? and who could corroborate that someone’s story?
stupid, stupid, stupid.
and there was nothing substantial in that article except more allusion to rumors. he didn’t even get to hear what “explosive thing” Neri had to say.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:16 pm
i betcha if everyone would pledge security for Neri and his family we’d hear Neri talking more. yet all Neri gets are more criticisms, threats, and taunts from both sides. poor guy. it’s so easy to damn someone when it’s not you or your family’s life on the line.
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:20 pm
“it makes it impossible to kill neri at this point, and that could justify the revelation. but, it could also permanently shut up neri, so it’s a gamble.”
Where’s Benign0 to remind everybody here that everything goes in this country. Neri is either dead or alive, it depends on where you’re standing.
Bondoc’s column needs to be amplified and Inquirer should do its part.
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:25 pm
Devil, if Neri doesn’t categorically deny speaking those things to Bondoc, people must believe it.
Neri’s single. No wife and children. So maybe he doesn’t have a suicide taste’s for spilling the beans on powerful people, but integrity alone should force his mouth open. I was surprised he didn’t explode in the Senate with Andaya poking at him every sof often.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:29 pm
devils, the problem for neri is this. he is basically under psg custody. even vigil won’t do anything except keep neri from getting any sleep; it won’t result in the psg relinquishing custody. what neri could do, is appeal to the senate to place him under its custody, but remember, there is a congressional recess coming up, so for about a month, neri will be in the senate while everyone else is out of town.
definitely, there is no shortage of people willing to provide a safehouse to neri, but how would he then go to one, and which one would he pick? it’s really a dilemma. since the archbishop of manila is a gma loyalist and much of the rest of the clergy is coopted, gutless, or if not, too far away to be of any help (the gutsy clergy were the la salle brothers but loyalist alumni raised such hell they’ve had to tone down their activism; the jesuits, well, the less said, the better), he can’t hide in a convent.
so he’s a prisoner and if the allegations of browbeating are any guide, while i personally am disappointed neri didn’t spill the beans, i can’t condemn him because really, what would anyone do in such a situation? think of the implications of his being whisked off to the pllo during lunch and the presence of andaya, if true, in the executive session -and i for one, wonder where the psg guards were the whole time.
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:31 pm
mlq3,
i agree with you, his revelations ran counter to journalism ethics. but i think the threat to his life is damn too serious to think about this now. what he is doing is writing his obituary (metaphorical, i.e. to his career, as well as probably literal) with THE TRUTH written all over it. morbid as this may sound, it’s probably jarius way of telling his readers who are after him and neri.
brave? not quite harry potteresque. jarius cannot utter voldermort’s name just yet. “the other one” has cast a libel curse upon the mere utterance of his name. truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:33 pm
it’s only neri who can break that spell.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:34 pm
Unless through an act of God, GMA, being at the helm of command responsibility comes out in the open and explains to all the ZTE issue,(even if she’s guilty of graft personally I will forgive her of course I don’t speak for everyone) some people will kill to keep secrets.
I’m just genuinely concerned for Neri, I don’t know him but I see he is not built for this. I had a friend who I really know was brave, he knew how to take care of himself, but still he was gunned down and until now we don’t know what really happened – his name is John Campos. I don’t think Neri has built up that much support from people, the media, and concerned individuals – if he dies he will be forgotten and he doesn’t have to die now, later, when everything is quiet again. GMA doesn’t even need to have a hand in it, its plain to see she has no control of her people. As I said, some people will do anything to keep secrets.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 12:56 pm
Manolo, I know that. that’s why i expressed my sympathy for Neri. while people like De Quiros are too easy to judge, we can’t say the same of ourselves when it is our lives on the line. you can’t know how hot it is, unless you’ve faced the fire. being that Neri’s virtualy in PSG custody, he still has some pockets of air every now and then. we should take those opportunities to accord Neri’s safety.
im asking as well how capable the senate is (or congress for that matter) of protecting Neri when it can’t even protect the sanctity of executive session.
Neri had the chills bcoz the moment he saw Andaya, he knew how inutile or perhaps even deplored how co-opted the senate is. if it comes to push and shove, what will Congress fight with to counter Malacanang’s force? a few measly sgt at arms? are the senators and congressmen even brave enough to force a confrontation?
can the writ of amparo be availed even before it becomes effective? methinks now ppl will start disappearing.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:02 pm
Abalos just announced his resignation on ANC tv.
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:06 pm
“Abalos just announced his resignation on ANC tv.”
anak ng zteng. he pre-empted the impeachment.
manuelbuencamino on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:07 pm
I think Jarius deserves a Pulitzer.
leah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:08 pm
I wonder what country he will be appointed Ambassador to?
and where did he get the money for an 80 million house as reported in the tribune?
manuelbuencamino on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:09 pm
MLQ3,
your column today puts the right historical perspective on the executive and senate
manuelbuencamino on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:10 pm
and noe andaya does bear a physical resemblance to tony soprano
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:16 pm
Puerile Senators, Truckload of Gossips, and Vulture-like Media
A shipload has been talked, discussed, gossiped about this NBN (National Broadband Network) deal and its Supply Contract with the Chinese Firm ZTE. It’s obvious to say that Senators are craving for media-attention and the Media in turn are craving for “scoops.†Let me dissect the issues as succinctly and clearly as I can.
PUZZLE 1: “Sec. may 200 ka dito.â€
Fact 1: Neri didn’t know how much was this golden “200†word. Was it in the hundreds? Was it in the thousands? Was it in the millions?
Fact: 2: When Sen. Gordon asked what the alleged “200†was for, Neri also didn’t know. As I quote from the “liveblogging transcriptâ€:
“8:38 Gordon asks his question anyway. Neri asked to repeat Abalos’s offer. Gordon asks yet, you were not chagrined. There are basic courtesies, Neri replies. What was obligation in exchange for offer, Gordon asks? Neri says he doesn’t know what bribe was supposed to be in exchange for.â€
Fact 3: ABALOS, the “supposed†bagman of ZTE would in his right mind BRIBE someone who is not even remotely connected to the awarding of the CONTRACT. (Neri’s role was to approve the “project†without any influence on who will be the SUPPLY CONTRACTOR). 200 million pesos at that? Lolz. If there were persons whom ABALOS should have bribed, it should have been Sec. Leandro Mendoza (DOTC) and Asec. Formoso (TELOF) being the front-line implementers of the said project.
Whether BRIBERY HAPPENED or NOT, this is a case of “HIS WORD AGAINST HIS WORD†which by the way is so hard to prove in Court. There’s no third party involved. There’s no way of verifying and refuting such claims by both sides. How do you resolve this dilemma, then?
I find all of these weird and defy COMMON SENSE and SIMPLE LOGIC.
PUZZLE 2: “Chinese Goodwill.â€
It’s a known fact that China has Foreign Reserves to date amounting to 1.2 Trillion USD. The very reason, they are giving all sorts of FOREIGN AIDS, LOANS, and GRANTS to countries, which in return can give them something. China is very aggressive in AFRICA for Minerals and Oil. It might sound cliché but “there’s no such thing as free lunch.†Each and every centavo that China (its Public and Private Sectors) that pours in the Philippines has strings attached.
I suspect that the NBN Project, more than ZTE’s wanting to bag the project for PROFIT might be quite secondary. I deduce that the NBN Project being undertaken by a Chinese Firm (Government-owned at that) is a STRATEGIC and a TACTICAL DECISION by China to gain a Foothold not only in the Philippines but the STRATEGIC LOCATION of the PHILIPPINES vis a vis Southeast Asia. All these Security Audits (internal and third party) are mere bull#$%^.
PUZZLE 3: “The Executive Session that was NOT.â€
During the Executive Session wherein Sec. Neri was party along with the Senators, it seems to me that it was an Executive Session that was not. Why was that a lot of gossips and rumors leaked? Whether it was an irrelevant detail or a procedural detail, “what is discussed in the executive session, must remain in the executive sessions.†I guess there are also a good number of Senators who we can consider TSISMOSO or TSISMOSA (for a male Senator I won’t name).
Before the Executive Sessions started, I overheard that the ones who will be allowed inside would be: the Senators; Sec. Neri and his lawyer (it turned out to be Sec. Andaya); and other Senate Staff. There was even this rumor that it was Joker Arroyo who let Sec. Andaya in and be the legal counsel of Sec. Neri. Now where is this coming from? Is it mere speculation or something leaked by a MALE TSISMOSA Senator? (The heckler, maybe? Hehehe. Wanted to get even to Joker).
Was it really an EXECUTIVE SESSION or NOT?
PUZZLE 4: “Senators that act like toddlers with their tantrums.â€
I did not like how Pimentel and Gordon talked at Abalos in any way. Whether the person is guilty or not, a Senate Hearing is not a Prosecutor’s Office. Their personal attacks were really out of line bordering to the “kabastusan.†Whether they like or abhor Abalos, they should respect that he’s a guest in the Senate and came voluntarily. As such, they should have treated him with even a tinge of respect.
The questioning by the Senators was either REPETITIVE or STUPID. It’s like they wanted more camera footage on them rather than preparing well and internalizing their questions. I also dislike the side comments that no less than the Chairman of the Blue Ribbon Committee were throwing all over the place. These people I suppose are lawyers and professionals but I don’t think they were taught GOOD MANNERS in Kindergarten.
PUZZLE 5: “Neri was supposed to drop a BOMB of Truth.â€
If a person is DETERMINED to tell something, he/she would not be impeded by anything or anyone. Many are comparing Neri to Chavit. Chavit went in the open out of his own free will. I don’t think that the same pressure should be put on NERI. Whether he’s got something BIG to say or not, he should be respected as a person. The problem with the PHILIPPINE MEDIA and some FILIPINOS is that they think they own the DECISION of individuals. They want to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze just to get the first crack on a scoop.
Even the allegation that Neri had a FEVER because he was afraid Sec. Andaya was there was mere baseless speculation. What made him sick was the length he was subjected to questions and pounding by the Senators. What if a Senator takes his place and subjected to questioning for 10 hours or so, who wouldn’t get sick by that?
On the whole, what I see are mere PUZZLES. I don’t see any CLEAR PICTURE for the simple reason that the motives behind all this are something stinky and fishy per se. Look at JDV3; if he bagged the said contract, would he have come out in the open? I don’t think so. He’s a sore LOSER. Where are the witnesses that LACSON and ESTRADA are bragging about that would shed light on the said incident in Wack-Wack on an insider that knew about the ZTE deal? These are all mere lip service.
Down the line, it’s the PUBLIC that’s the victim of this entire circus.
justice in waiting on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:38 pm
Abalos announced his Resignation from the Comelec, but his resignation doesn’t bring any closure to the allegations and until a thorough inquiry into his involvement in the so-called “anomalous” activities is undertaken and a conclusive findings have been arrived, these shenanigans will be filed among the countless unresolved “msyteries” that are the norm in the country political system of Oligarchy…and we will be ready for the next Episodes and it is getting even bolder and bigger.
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:41 pm
Neri should’ve joined the Hyatt 10 when he could. Now he’s in too deep and so his only options are to become hero, heel or martyr. He only has himself to blame for his situation since it’s naive for Civil society/technocratic-types to think they can get away playing the game with thugs. Anyway, as the saying goes, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:53 pm
Karah,
I actually see your point. This issue should have been brought to court since day 1 after thorough preparation of course. But you must agree, its sold a lot of paper and air time.
As for China, the country is cash rich right now and the way I see it they have better chances of getting their money back with interest if they loan it outside their borders. Several industries, the paper industry for instance in China are so heavily financed by the government already but these companies are losing money by the day. One paper mill Nine Dragons became the biggest mill in the world in just 10 years of operation and still growing, surpassing European and American mills that are even a century old. We expect the bubble to burst anytime soon.
From a business point of view, it would be to our advantage to form close economic ties with China at this time, we have more to gain. Besides, SMC is in China already. The US, with its real estate woes, and now the sub prime issue is in for a recession.
As i said earlier, my company has already invested millions of Euros in infrastructure there already and purchased thousands of acres of plantation land. Depending on how our government will draw the contracts China is and should be our direction. But whether GMA’s administration is the right team to “make this happen” is something worth looking into. I just wish this team is more forthcoming in their intentions and plans as well as the expected outcomes and treat us as intelligent voters or more appropriate “stakeholders.”
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:56 pm
agree wit you karah. and while the guy is maybe fighting for his life, some self righteous people (including the media) watching from their cozy homes are just so insensitive hurling invectives at the poor guy. too quick to praise and condemn. human nature?
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 1:57 pm
so cvj, ready to agree with me on the present course we and our nation are taking?
will resignation lay a precedent to be absolved of any wrong doing in the future? naks easy get out of jail free after plundering the nation. just resign!
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:11 pm
ABALOS in an interview: I will never resign bec that is tantamount to admitting my guilt!
does that mean he’d admitting his guilt now?
or was he just suddenly struck with an epiphany that resigning is never an admission of guilt but rather a construct of clearing one’s name?
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:15 pm
Ramrod: (a) Re: Abalos Bribery – the very reason they don’t wanna fight this out in court is for the simple reason that it’s a deadlock case (the word of Abalos against the word of Neri is a case that nobody can lose and win). (b) Re: NBN-ZTE Deal – As this issue is already with the Supreme Court, legally speaking what we can do is wait on what the highest Court would decide. Now, the motivation behind all these hearings is MEDIA MILEAGE and PUBLICITY for certain Senators who have intentions for 2010.
China is investing heavily in Africa and also some Souteast Asian countries. Some reasons would be: (1) They need the Oil and other Raw Materials to feed their every hungry industries; (2) Strategic and Tactical reasons – they want to also boast to the world that the sleeping giant is already waking up; (3) Your reason that of putting up their money for LOAN (though with low interest but something in return). At 8% growth in 2006, they need to strengthen their Economic Fundamentals.
The emerging Superpower these days are INDIA (with 1 Billion consumers) and CHINA (with 1.3 Billion consumers). It’s a huge, nay, a gigantic market to exploit by different companies. Russia is also recovering after the collapse of the USSR (mainly due to the Oil, Gas, and Mineral exports). Now, a Philippines having closer ties to China might send “the jitters” to Washington (knowing the animosity of the USA to China). But then again, the US is to busy in the Middle East that is loosened up its grip in Asia and CHINA is following through the pieces.
I think that GMA has the goodwill but the problem lies in some “lack of transparency” especially to some of her Cabinet Members. Let’s say, they have nothing to hide but the way the Palace behaves on certain issues would have an impression of “concealing something.”
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:20 pm
grd Even without invitation, Chairmain Abalos came to the Senate out of his own free will to clear his name. That alone is a sign of goodwill. Whether he’s guilty of the BRIBERY and CORRUPTION CHARGES is up for the Courts to decide, not the Senate. What Pimentel and Gordon did not only demean and degrade the personhood of Abalos. It showed how LOW and ANIMALISTIC some Senators can get. It’s humiliating for me. But I guess being THICK-FACED is one of the characterisits of Public Elected Officials nowadays.
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:21 pm
“ABALOS in an interview: I will never resign bec that is tantamount to admitting my guilt!”
devils, get the source.
his words should be immortalised in t-shirts.
frombelow on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:23 pm
whats the fuzz about bondoc divulging neri as his source. alam naman ng lahat na siya yung source di ba? we tend to romanticize. only refuse to divulge sources when he really is unidentfifiable ( such as Deep Throat of the Watergate scandal ) pero ito alam naman natin lahat na si neri yun eh. The least is inapproproiate un sa part ni bondoc. but no big deal. let us not make a mountain…
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:24 pm
what was voldermort doing abroad? seeking for the elder wand?
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:34 pm
and shouldn’t neri be resigning as well? by approving the broadband deal amidst gma’s hear no evil, speak no evil stance, he has already diminished the credibility of neda as an independent assessment body.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:35 pm
ine, i can’t remember where and i cnt even quote his exact words. am just telling what i remember. it’s probably in inquirer and everywhere else.
john marzan on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:36 pm
sinisiraan na ba ng manila standard today si neri as jdv’s puppet as early as dec. 11, 2006?
http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=jojoRobles_dec11_2006
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:38 pm
ah, the beauty of google. devils, here:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:pAd5pvC6feAJ:www.mb.com.ph/MAIN20070929104304.html+abalos+resign+guilt&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=au
Willy on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:39 pm
Heard over radio 630AM:
Habang nasa golf cart silang dalawa…
Abalos: Sec me dalawan daan ka dito.
Neri: Huh? Anong dalawang daan?
Abalos: Isang daan pakaliwa, isang daan pakanan. So, dalawang daan.
Neri: Yoko nga. Sa datingdaan ako.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:39 pm
frombelow,
Its not a matter of Bondoc divulging his source only, its divulging what Neri told him in confidence without expressed permission and without corroboration. I’m not a mediaman but in a corporate setting this is “rumor mongering.” There might be others involved who will not take kindly to being exposed, men have been known to disappear for lesser money involved.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:46 pm
inodoro ni emilie,
There are times when executives make decisions that may “cross the line that must no be crossed” the boss is aware of this but there is an agreement that if he/she gets caught he’s on his own. This is called “plausible deniability” and happens everywhere, some business deals just fall inside the realm of gray areas but need to be done for the the good of the whole organization, it just depends on the intention of the “boss” really.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:48 pm
willy, nice joke.
it can also be said…
abalos: sec may 200 k d2.
neri: anong 200?
abalos: 200 pag nag hole in one ako. ano pupusta ka?
gibraltar on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:48 pm
in fairness to mr. bondoc, he is finally facing himself in the mirror, devoid of all the hats and suits that all made ourselves wear. and what he saw is the truth. irrespective of considerations. the same truth we all want to see – the emperor has no clothes! and people wearing hats and suits will criticize and condemn, what’s new? “someone tried to say it, but we nailed him to a cross”???
frombelow on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:53 pm
ramrod,
” it’s not a matter of Bondoc divulging his source only, its divulging what Neri told him in confidence…I am not a mediaman but in corporate setting… Ramrod.
So you are not a media man. But the logic behind journalists not divulging their sources is primarily to protect them from harm, in whatever manner, once they become identified. Other reason is that the source might clam up. Propriety is the least of the reason.
inodoro ni emilie on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:54 pm
devils, the beauty of google. here:
=====================================================
Abalos says he will not resign from Comelec
By E. T. SUAREZ
Manila Bulletin online, 28 Sept 2007
Commission on Elections (Comelec) Chairman Benjamin S. Abalos Sr. said yesterday he will not resign from his post, stressing that resignation means surrender or admission of guilt.
“I have no reason to resign since I have not committed any wrong,” Abalos said.
=====================================================
if p then q iff not q then not p.
a fish is caught by its mouth.
tonio on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 2:58 pm
hmm… my other comment disappeared.
Is Jarius forcing Neri’s hand? Everything can still be denied, with the appropriate libel cases to tie everything up in the courts.
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:00 pm
Devils, in my comment at the previous thread (at October 1st, 2007, 12:07 am), i already agreed with you on the direction our country is taking. I do not agree with advocating bloodshed though, but if there should be, it should be kept at the minimum and limited to the deserving.
justice in waiting on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:05 pm
With all the Senate Investigations, Media trial by “trial and error” is there any Ongoing Criminal Investigation re: allegations of criminal conduct in relation to the NBN case? That is the most important investigation that should have been undertaken by the authorities, I mean the independent body empowered to conduct such investigations and that would be the domain of the NBI. And then let’s have closure, conclusive one on this case and we can move on to others or move forward..
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:05 pm
Actually, with Abalos resigning there’s no need for impeachment. He can even say the “meron kang 200 dito” was golf-related and Neri will say “ah yun pala yon, sorry I misunderstood you.” So basically, everything was out too soon, more evidence should have been gathered, more people should have been implicated, sometimes it is wise to be quiet and do your homework first before presenting it, I agree with Karah, its a media event, but bottomline it still generated money – for the media industry, its all business nothing personal except for Neri.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:17 pm
“But the logic behind journalists not divulging their sources is primarily to protect them from harm, in whatever manner, once they become identified. Other reason is that the source might clam up. Propriety is the least of the reason.”
Thank you very much. I will be careful in te future when talking to journalists, just to the priest only, at least I can hide behind the “seal of confession.”
gibraltar on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:19 pm
that abalos was forced to resign is logical. forced by an inevitable impeachment, and probably by orders from higher ups. forced by the same crooked deduction which tells him to stop while he is still ahead. a big crime was probably committed, and will probably go unpunished. as usual…?
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:23 pm
ramrod, actually the seal of confession was broken first. that’s how the Katipunan was discovered more than a hundred years ago.
Beancurd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:29 pm
Karah,
Some points:
1) There is such a thing as context and you ought to know that for a person supposedly asserting good manners. You do not answer the weathe is fair when someone tells you that you are not using the right spoon.
2) If you still do not know, NEDA clearance is required for national government projects that is why Neri’s approval is crucial.
3) It is my view that the executive session is for the protection of the information revealed in the session by the the person claiming to have privileged information. Was there privileged information that was leaked out?
4) I cannot agree with you more with the way most of the senators prepared for, behaved or asked during the hearings, but if someone lies on your face or takes you for a ride, do you not think there should be a little allowance for anger in the face of that? Or you would rather smile and say, OK, it is your word against another and since that is the case, there is no reason to react in anyway whatsoever. ‘You think you would be proud of a senator whose rational judgment becomes suspended in the face of a “he said, she said” situation?
5. and what is your take on neri’s having fever just because he was grilled for 10 hours? I believe abalos was also grilled for 10 hours but he did not have fever despite his more advanced age. ‘Must have been the soup at Shangrila?
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:32 pm
cvj,
Good god! You mean to say there is a possibility my wife will find out what I’ve been doing?
frombelow on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:36 pm
touche, cjv.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:44 pm
Beancurd :
I believe the reason Abalos didn’t get sick is because he’s built for this, he has steel-lined stomach, he can lie straight to your face without batting an eyelash or breaking a sweat. Neri, on the other hand is probably of weaker stuff.
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:49 pm
ramrod, probably not, unless you’re organizing a rebellion (and/or your wife is GMA).
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:49 pm
Manolo, over at Ellen’s, she seems sure that Abalos resigned from the COMELEC.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:55 pm
cjv, yeah, deleted my comment. the confusion was caused by a boo-boo in a gmanews.tv report.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:56 pm
cvj,
I was about to start “stage 1″ with you and devils (just kidding, I’m lover not a warrior).
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 3:58 pm
does anyone here play chess? whatchamacallit, that thing when you sacrifice a rook or whatever to save the queen?
now any case is in the hands of…. ta-dah! the ombudsman!
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:01 pm
Beancurd: (1) Do you mean to say it’s a case of “HEAR NO EVIL?” The context is pretty simple, a golf mate tells you: “Sec. may 200 ka dito”, won’t you even care to clarfiy what’s that for? Come one, we are adults and not some kids or some derelict in the corner that lacks comprehension. The purpose of CLARIFICATION is precisely to know what the other person is talking about. I think that’s the context of the statement. Do you think that at Neri’s age he’s as innocent as a toddler?
He’s a grown up man and it was incumbent upon him to have clarified the statement right there and then. I think that is called COMMON SENSE which is not so common these days?
(2) Do you know the difference between a PROJECT and a CONTRACT in the “context” we are in? A project is a CONCEPT of what the Government needs vis a vis the Economic Thrust of the present Administration. Take for example – an NBN (National Broadband Network), a Train Rehabilitation Project. A CONTRACT is a document wherein a LINE AGENCY agrees with a SUPPLY CONTRACTOR (the general law of obligations). This LINE AGENCY has the POWER to CHOOSE which Contractor. So where would the money should be, the PROJECT or the CONTRACT?
Besides, it’s not NERI who would APPROVE a PORJECT, it’s the NEDA BOARD (which is a Collegial Body). It’s not NERI alone who would sign but his SIGNATURE is mere ministerial as the NEDA BOARD would APPROVE the said contract. Whether Neri’s signature is there or not, the process goes on. Here is a matter of documentation and for “official purposes.” Have you even read the NEDA Mandate? Please, please go to the NEDA website.
(3) RULES of the Senate. Rule XLVII. EXECUTIVE SESSION. Section 127: “The President as well as Senators and the officials and employees of the Senate SHALL BE ABSOLUTELY REFRAIN FROM DIVULGING ANY OF THE CONFIDENTIAL MATTERS taken up by the Senate (POINT 1), and ALL PROCEEDINGS WHICH MIGHT HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN THE SENATE (Do you think that the allegation that JOKER intervened was NOT a PROCEDURAL ASPECT of the Executive Session???) in connection with the said matters shall be likewise CONSIDERED AS STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL until the Sente, by two-thirds vote of all its Members, decides to lift the ban of secrecy.
The key word here is “ALL PROCEEDINGS” (whether BIG or SMALL detail). The next time, you should know what you’re talking about before you start talking. It is not only a matter of PRIVILEGED INFORMATION but also a matter of PROCEEDINGS and whatever transpired in the Executive Session.
(4) Do you have proof and corroborative proof that what the witnesses said in the Senate were LIES? If none then I suggest you don’t come accusing anyone of lying without evidence because it’s so easy to say “He’s LYING, She’s LYING.” Even a Kindergarten could say that to anyone.
The Senate, the Senators for that matter are Representatives of the people of the REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES. Do you think that ANIMALISTIC BEHAVIOR is a good sight to see? What’s important is to STICK TO THE ISSUE. Do you think that talking about “alleged mistresses and alleged son/daughter” would help us get ENLIGHTENED on the NBN-ZTE dea? Do you think that ELECTORAL PROTESTS are part of the ISSUE AT HAND. Do you even think that Gordon’s TANTRUMS were even remotely in consonance with the issue at hand?
The very reason it’s so hard to dwell on the HE SAID, HE SAID issue is that there’s no way of verifying nor denying it. If you’re really a good observer, how do you RESOLVE such a situation. Tell me and I’ll be very glad to listen to you.
(5) Why does NERI and ABALOS have the same Physiological make-up? Huh? I merely suggested a possibility not a fact. I know where you’re coming from – the Pandora’s Box of Sacrasm but I’m coming from the Book of the Devil’s Sarcasm, let see what’s better.
In the scheme of things, we are spectators. Now, if you think you have a better of even the brightest idea on how to make the Philippines a better country, please, please I’m all ears or rather ALL EYES since I’m not hearing rather reading your comments.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:06 pm
mlq3
I think thats called a gambit.
Bokyo on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:14 pm
There is no such a thing in chess. You just don’t sacrifice any other piece to save the other (except of course for the King) especially the queen which is the most powerful piece, usually it is the other way around, to gain material or positional superiority. Any good chess player looks for the chance to sacrifice the Queen and be able to win it.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:15 pm
ramrod, tnx. clever gambit, then. abalos quits, impeachment’s a no-go, house deflates. meanwhile, abalos sues neri and jdv3, so now sub judice can be invoked in the senate. meanwhile, as for abalos himself, the ombudsman will go through the motions. and then, shocked, shocked, i tell you, by abalos’s suit, palace mobilizes house to topple the speaker. the best defense is indeed, a good offense.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:17 pm
bokyo, what would be a good game/sports analogy then?
jaxius on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:21 pm
ramrod,
it is called a sacrifice. While gambits fall under the broader description of a “sacrifice”, the former is usually used for the positional development and is basically part of the “opening” and for the most part involves pawns.
in this situation, the “queen’s gambit” was allowing Neri to testify because if the former NEDA chair does not come up with the goods, the whole gameplan of the opposition would crumble. However, the gambit was accepted and the opposite effect was reached.
To save GMA, Abalos has to be sacrificed.
Shaman of Malilipot on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:21 pm
I don’t think Jarius Bondoc is stupid enough to reveal everything without Neri’s permission. My take here is that Neri gave him a tacit consent. As mlq3 has said, “it makes it impossible to kill neri at this point”. And Neri knows it. Remember that he was given a similar chance last Wednesday, but then he didn’t give Bondoc permission. Now that he has realised, as mlq3 has pointed out, that he is a virtual prisoner of the PSG, he must have changed his mind.
manuelbuencamino on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:26 pm
karah.
o sige na nga…
Abalos is telling the truth…
Neri and JDV III are lying…
the ZTE deal is the best thing for the country…
and what you’re smoking is better than anything I’ve ever inhaled.
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:29 pm
“does anyone here play chess? whatchamacallit, that thing when you sacrifice a rook or whatever to save the queen?”
A gambit is the move that puts a knight in a position of sacrifice. If the knight is already taken then it’s just plain “sacrifice.”
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:33 pm
manuelbuencamino A condescending attitude, ei? Very typical for a Filipino. I find it funny when people just give in for the sake of giving in without even saying their piece?
Your “figure of speech” my be amusing but sorry I don’t smoke and I have never smoked.
The Ca t on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:33 pm
If you are referring to CASTLING, it means moving the Rook or castle to protect the KINg (not the queen )from being vulnerable to attacks.
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:33 pm
“bokyo, what would be a good game/sports analogy then?”
How about baseball, when a player on base intentionally gets hit by the ball.
I think it’s called “strike”
tagabukid on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:36 pm
I cant believe Abalos resigned, may hiya pa pala ang mama!
I play chess, though not really an expert. ‘Sacrifice’ and ‘gambit’ make sense but i thought this had the making of a zugzwang — a chess situation where a player whose turn it is to move, has no move that does not worsen his position.
The endgame is near and it sure looks like a checkmate.
frombelow on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:38 pm
Abalos resignation is not even a gambit or a sacrifice if you will make chess as analogy. His move is “Zugzwang.” When a player is put at a disadvantage by having to make a move; where any legal move weakens the position.A forced move in short.
Shaman of Malilipot on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:38 pm
karah, bibigyan pa kita ng justification para kay Abalos parang masaya ka:
“Sec. may dalawang daan ka dito. Isa sa kanan, isa sa kaliwa.”
Remember that they were on a golf cart and they were just deciding which way to go.
Bokyo on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:39 pm
A gambit is a clever offer (usually a pawn) the opponent may not necessarily take it (as in QG or KG Declined). Same thing with sacrifice usually of major piece.
I can’t think of better analogy. I am just saying that the queen is not necessarily trying to be saved.
Willy on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:40 pm
Chess game is a good analogy, but in chess there a no hidden pieces.
I guess it is more of a poker game.
You don’t show all your hands, keep bluffing your way,
keep a straight face all throughout, and there’s always
an ace up someones sleeve. There’s also King and Queen,
but Ace should be higher. As we are not seeing all the
cards yet, the bets are still on.
Meanwhile the stakes getting higher.
frombelow on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:40 pm
And when there is Zugzwang. Checkmate is inevitable. Unless the palyer resigns.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:43 pm
Shaman of Malilipot It’s a possibility.
The problem is that no currency was mentioned. Was it in Pesos? Dollars? Yuan? 
200 can mean anything under the sun. Whether a bribery was committed, up for the Courts to decide.
Bokyo on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:44 pm
Did Abalos resigned “only as Chairman” or what?
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:44 pm
“And when there is Zugzwang. Checkmate is inevitable. Unless the palyer resigns.”
In curling they call it waxing the ice.
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:50 pm
lol abt these sports analogy.
yeah BrianB, why not baseball, although i think the better example would be “walking.”
Here is Congress ready to try impeachment. The admin sensing this will be a “homer,” decides to throw “balls.” Three “balls” and there’s no strike. Congress walks to first base, and now the bases are truly loaded.
Supreme Court is next up to bat.
cvj, thanks. didn’t note that. though it would be quite naive to think that if bloodshed will occur it will be limited, and only the deserving will get it.
ine, nice work! thanks!
jaxius on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:50 pm
BrianB,
In baseball, if a batting player is hit by a pitch, he is automatically allowed to proceed to first base.
A strike, on the other hand, is either a pitch that was inside the strike zone which the hitter failed to swing at (a called strike) or if he swings, even if the ball was outside the strike zone, but fails to hit it (called a swinging strike).
A more appropriate term in baseball would be a sacrifice bunt used to advance a base runner.
manuelbuencamino on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:51 pm
karah,
Your “figure of speech†my be amusing but sorry I don’t smoke and I have never smoked”
Really? You mean you really think that way? Wow! I’m so sorry…I didn’t realize you had a problem…I thought it was just something you could sleep off…
Now how do you expect rational people to address the points you raised?
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:54 pm
manuelbuencamino :
I don’t believe Karah meant that Abalos was telling the truth nor Neri and JDV3 were lying. She just didn’t like the whole thing becoming a media circus and the demeanor of the senators.
As for the broadband deal with China, its a step in the right direction provided the negotiating team studied the contract very well. If we’re trading, its give and take. My guess is the broadband deal is just a piece of the whole pie. China’s industries are hungry for minerals ie nickel, copper, etc. we are in the position to sell to them also. Its a very big market base for our food conglomerates ie SMC, etc. next year is good timing the Beijing Olympics. I have booked their pulp, paper and board requirements already especially for publication and packaging and its extremely substantial (more than expected) unfortunately I’m selling for Finland not the Philippines. This is insider information for all of you manufacturers there – go “China!”
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:54 pm
Have you encountered the phrase: “Sticking to the issue at hand?” or it’s the first time?
justice in waiting on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:55 pm
Let’s not be technical as to the amount or currency of the Bribe. The bribe itself is a crime in this case, be it any currency or in any amount. Let’s leave the arguments to the lawyers of both sides when their day in courts comes. Bribery may not have been committed, but attempts to bribe is just as criminal as to the actual commission, just like attempted murder or attempted rape, just as criminal as actually committing them.
And we are wondering why it takes forever to conclude a case in courts, too many good lawyers interpreteng the spirit of the law in millions of ways. And for the bloggers in us, we reflect the same realities…
nash on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:55 pm
karah and grd,
I can be self righteous because
1. I’m not involved in comelec shenanigans
2. I’m not involved in influence peddling.
Beh, buti nga kay Abalos..sana tuloy tuloy na up to the big fish. If you think they don’t deserve the invectives hurled against them, then they should have been honest civil servants in the first place. Afterall, our tax contributions pay for their salary and the least we expect of them is to do their job. Mumurahin ba sila kung maayos takbo ng mga departamento nila.
cheers,
nash
(proud to be self righteous against the kleptocrats)
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 4:57 pm
manuelbuencamino Have you encountered the phrase: “Sticking to the issue at hand?” or it’s the first time?
You’ve already said a mouthful but not about the topic at hand. Were you born vindictive or simply a fella who’s contented to talk about the “peripheries.?” Before you carry your own chair, you should have a chair first. Not an “imaginary one.”
So, can we get down to brass tacks or you would employ some sort of condescending attitude again?
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:01 pm
willy, ayan, i like that analogy. as the beloved (ex) chairman would put it, “foker” ang laro.
The Ca t on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:01 pm
the queen’s gambit does not involve rook development. It is more of opening both queens (black and white) to vulnerability of attacks because of the opening moves of pawns. At this point, all the kings’ horses and all the kings men are still there to protect the kingdom.
I rather say that neri is a pin and Abalos is a pawn.
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:01 pm
re baseball
I meant struck by bat.
Shaman of Malilipot on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:03 pm
karah, there’s talk around that there was a second part to Abalos’ bribery pitch.
After Abalos said, “Sec. may 200 ka dito,” Neri didn’t say anything. So, Abalos clarified, “May 200 million ka.”
Definitely, it couldn’t be 200 million dollars, much less 200 million golf balls.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:04 pm
Nash Whether you like it or not, the Philippines is still a COUNTRY OF LAWS not unless we become a Kamote Republic. There’s still such a thing as “innocent until proven guilty.” Of course we have our own way of developing opinions on a wide array of subject matters. If we don’t abide by the very rules that governs the country (whether it’s a working system of otherwise) then we might as well become a country of Anarchy – to each his/her own.
If you could say the same to Abalos being the Chairman of the COMELEC, I guess we can say the same for the Senators. What LEGISLATION have they already passed and done? (since it’s their primary job by the way) I challenge all the Congressmen/women and Senators to make public all their EXPENDITURES on monthly basis. I don’t think they would allow that now, won’t they? In the game of the Senate and it’s inquiries, they are not CLEAN themselves.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:08 pm
Shaman of Malilipot In that regard, it’s hearsay. But then again, whether that is true or not, Neri would not divulge that for whatever reason he might have (fear for life or what).
Again, there are a lot of talks. Would be base ourselves on hearsays, talks, and speculations?
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:08 pm
Guys, I still don’t see how Gloria will fall because of this. All she has to do is control her cronies and make sure they do nothing to Neri of JDV3. Hello Garci was much more obvious.
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:13 pm
Is Bencard on vacation or something? Why is his understudy doing the work?
jaxius on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:14 pm
how about some football analogy?
What the administration has been doing is called a “Cover 2″ defensive scheme in american football developed by Tony Dungy and elevated to perfection by Monte Kiffin of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
basically, the object of the “Cover 2″ is to allow the offense to gain ground but to never allow it to have the “big play” that would result in a touchdown. Basically, shut down big passing plays. It either preys on the mistakes of the offense or hopes that the long drive kills the momentum of the offense.
The anti-GMA movement is gaining ground yet up to now, they are yet to hit paydirt. Some got really disappointed with the Neri testimony which they hoped would deliver the touchdown. This disappointment is already translating to doubts whether all these would result in ousting GMA before 2010. Some people, probably including Neri himself, already thinks rocking the boat now would be more catastrophic.
Yes, the opposition has gotten some first downs. However, they are not yet even in the “red zone”. If there is something the Arroyo administration is known for, it is killing the opposition’s drive at the red zone (the Hyatt resignations and the Marine stand-off).
DevilsAdvc8 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:15 pm
shaman, baka may 200 ka – na halik galing sakin. ay ewan.
as Manolo said, foker inang buhay ‘to. kelan kaya maghe heads up? at kelan kaya mago all-in ang mga manlalaro? anong mga baraha kaya ang mabu burn? at sino kaya ang tatanghaling foker flayer of the year?
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:15 pm
kara, i agree with some of your points (i always liked serge osmena, for example, because he was always extremely polite to witnesses, and boy, did he really do his homework).
but i really disagree with those who insist on “what laws have they passed” and who view congress as being strictly in the business of passing laws.
congress involves oversight. it is the political check and balance on the executive just as the executive has the option of viewing silly/illegal/useless/objectionable legislation. congress’ oversight is, arguably, of even greater importance than passing laws. for example, would it be possible to justify a congress that, in its lifetime (3 years) didn’t pass a single law? no, because of the budget. but more than 3 laws? absolutely. there is no point passing unescessary legislation. what if a congress spent its lifetime scrapping law after law (which would require laws)? even better.
one personal obsession i’ve had is the lack of codifying things. we have laws dating to the philippine commission and no one, i think, can say with certainty if any inventory of laws has been undertaken.
anyway the point is, investigations are always in order, regardless of whether a law is the result. the manner in which they’re conducted is another matter. i’ve said often enough, here, that senators tend to be small-minded and mentally lazy. but then, the house is much worse. which is why the only way i’d ever contemplate unicameralism is we abolished the house and retained the senate.
as for reforms as to the manner senators are elected and campaign finance reform, these have been widely discussed in this blog.
i’d be open to 6 senators each from luzon, visayas, (christian) mindanao, 4 overseas senators (asia, america, europe, middle east), 1 for indigenous peoples and 1 for muslims. or, electing senators strictly by party vote, either through bloc voting or proportional representation.
Bokyo on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:17 pm
The Cat gave the clue there.
I didn’t realize it, but that is the best situation wherein you sacrifice the rook to save the queen. That is the black bishop is pinning white rook towards the white queen, if the rook moves the queen would be taken. The best option will then be to exchange the rook for a bishop.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:20 pm
You know I’ve spent as much time looking at this blog as I am monitoring developments in my assigned markets. Actually, its kind of a “stress relief” activity for me.
Karlah, i don’t believe you smoke but I’m pretty sure you drink too much Starbucks.
BrianB, yes you nailed it. As long as she keeps Neri and JDV3 safe from the still unnamed but probably seething, foaming in the mouth, red in the face, and fist clenching machiavellians, she’ll probably sweep this under the rug again. If she does I’ll put her poster in my bedroom, and idol worship her – Donald Trump or even the Enron executives pale by comparison.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:20 pm
brian, i don’t see a fall, either. first, because there’s a consensus, i really beleive, in terms of public opinion: everything must be constitutional. therefore, to eliminate cruella requires an impeachment and that brings up the noliboy bogey (fair or not). and 2010 is close enough so her political opponents are more interested in wounding but not eliminating cruella.
but… it does make cruella a pretty lame duck because this whole thing has shaken her upper and middle class support. they’d be less inclined to tolerate an extension in office. too many sacred cows have sore udders at this point.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:25 pm
devils, pagdating sa foker ng ina mo, i remember something i once told an elderly lady at a forum we attended last year. i said, you know, we have to be prepared for the possibility the real fight only begins in 2010, if cruella won’t go. the old lady pretended to hit me with her hand bag.
BrianB on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:33 pm
Manolo,
Under three years, right? You don’t think PGMA is much too smart to be given this much slack and Filipinos much too preoccupied watching local TV?
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:33 pm
GMA should give it a rest after 2010, she’ll be lucky if she won’t go to prison. All that is needed is a “Chavit Singson” type and all the Queen’s horses and men will not be able put it all back together again.
Meantime, I’ll be on the lookout for candidates with a “stage 3″ platform (not cancer, cvj’s)
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:33 pm
I can be self righteous because
1. I’m not involved in comelec shenanigans
2. I’m not involved in influence peddling.
nash, i too am not involve with the above shenanigans, so i have the right too to be critical of our senators for not behaving the way they’re expected to behave w/ their respected position and instead of saying they lost their cool or acting like showbiz talk show hosts or some gossip reporters.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:43 pm
MLQ3: It’s only the other days I was able to read and browse thru your blog. I got the idea from the Blog of a certain JOVE’s (from ABC5) Blog. So how are you and Justice Cruz doing?
Being Senators, they should be good examples and not some arrogant prick who thinks he/she owns the witnesses they invite or subpoena.
I think we all know that the LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT (Article VI of the Constitution) has two mandates: (1) TO ENACT and PASS LAWS; (2) TO EXERCISE OVERSIGHT FUNCTIONS vis a vis GOVERNMENT. Don’t get me wrong, I am for both mandates to be fulfilled by the different Congressmen/women and Senators. What I disagree on is the LACK OF RULES on how they conduct their “Rules of Procedure Governing Inquiries in Aid of Legislation.” Let me elucidate
I do think that when the Senate conducts it’s INVESIGATIONS and INQURIES it can lead to two things: (a) Some issues that might need LEGISLATION or AMENDMENTS to present Legislation and (b) Check and Balance on certain Government Activities on how it performs its duties. The spirit of the Constitution puts empahsis on LEGISLATION (though implicitly also mandates oversight).
Now, how many times was the GENERAL APPROPRIATIONS ACT bypassed? This alone would make us wonder. Why is there no information on how these SENATORS SPEND their PORK BARREL? (whether they get it or they don’t). You see more than doing their OVERSIGHT functions of which you put premium, it’s not their SOLE JOB, they have other mandates to do other than doing OVERSIGHT every single day of the Session Calendar.
Why can they afford more time INFRONT OF THE CAMERA durind Senate Investigations yet they can’t convene their respective Committees that also perform LEGISLATIVE and OVERSIGHT POWERS? Tell me since I am sure you’re very familiar of these things. It only takes 2 Senators to have a Quorum in a Committee and yet some Committees haven’t convened yet.
Is it because it always NICE to be on National TV rather than silenly working on other matters that might be of lessi importance but important for the streamlining of bureaucratic processes anyway?
I am for an evenly REPRESENTED SEATS in the Senate. It might be by the Major Islands (Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao). It might be Regional (of the different regions. It might even be as you say OFW’s. But another question is that, who would RUN in this type of Senational Elections? It’s the sample people, the same Family names, the same Clans.
I am made to think: HOW DO WE ELECT OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS? I am utterly frustrated by how the present Senators conduct themselves, by how they handle Investigations and Inquiries.
Take for example, the CHEAPER MEDICINES ACT which would be very helpful. Where is it now? Will it even see the light of day given the fact that Pharmaceutical Lobby in both Houses is pretty BIG BUCKS BUSINESS.
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:44 pm
Which is why i’m not looking forward to it.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:44 pm
grd and nash
Put yourselves in their shoes, imagine with one golf game, or night of wining and dining you get to hold Usd100M in your hands. Christ, you can live off the interest until you die! The true test of self righteousness is when you are in the situation but you still chose to be poor.
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:44 pm
hirap naman sa mga tao dito sala sa init sala sa lamig. magagaling mag second guess palagi. puro conspiracy theories. dati ang sabi walang delicadesa ang mga opisyal dahil walang nagreresign. ngayon naman nagresign si abalos, binatikos pa rin giving his action another spin naman. isn’t it admirable what he just did? nobody has done that for a long time in this country (somebody who’s involved in a highly publicized controversy). now, here’s the chance to file a case against him in court. a test case against gloria too.
some commenters here are so disgusting. can’t accept it when other views are different from theirs and resorting to personal insults. such hypocrites.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:47 pm
Ramrod Yes, I do drink Starbucks Coffee but only on weekends. If and when I smoke, I’d choose CIGARS, Cuban that is. At least a CIGAR could go a long way rather than contend myself with those thin “cigarrettes.”
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:49 pm
cvj, will you lead this stage 1 scenario that you’re advocating?
Beancurd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 5:51 pm
Karah,
1) “Sec, may dalawang daan ka dito” “pasulong at paatras”, that is common sense. And what was the golf invitation of Abalos to Neri for? “Sec, may dalawang daan ka dito”, “yung dating daan at yung bagong daan”; your brand of common sense is really quite uncommon;
2) Talking about projects and contracts, did you not hear what the NEDA approved? it was not the project, it was the COINTRACTS? Yung tanong lang ay kung ilang coins napunta sa mga “commissioners”.
3) Have you heard about the right to information on matters of public concern? what are the exceptions? you think what happened the last hearing was a matter of national security? or the joker’s privilege?
4) Oh, for one so concerned about the facts, why is your first reaction against the media and those who gained media mileage and not about ferreting out the facts? i am sure with your uncommon sense, you can contribute some questions that maybe of use to the senators. But such reaction sounds more like this government’s reactrion to allegations of corruption — that there is no corruption here — instead of let us investigate.
cesar on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 6:11 pm
I never believed abalos to be innocent…. to put it bluntly, he seems very guilty of bribery or the attempt thereto. He will have his time to present his case in court. JDV on the other hand raised this buzz to get attention on himself when he could have brought a cse aginst abalos on the very firstrnstance, which he did not!!! ( Why is that)… Your guess is as good as mine… Yet what the whole hullabaloo is all about, is that the senators in its inquiry and investigation in aid of legislation (daw)!! is so full of their grappling for media time and exposure. That it is glaringly apparent that they don’t know what to do!!! Accdg to Gordon… he asked what was the objective of the inquiry before it started, he never got a clear answer from the chair…Mar Roxas finally clarified on the second day that the inquiry was to investigate where the lapses in the procurement process are!!!! With what Mar roxas said, What did the questions of Jinngoy and Pimentel lead to? What was the salient points intended to be raised in the inquiry? where there any??? It only proves the mediocrity of the senators .
On another point…. Senators or some of them are lawyers… They should know that it is basic that to be in a Committee investigating any issue, They should, at the very least, appear IMPARTIAL… sadly none of them were or were ever… Do our senators really know what they are doing?
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 6:14 pm
Beancurd (1) Your common sense as you claim borders on HEARSAY, SPECULATION, and TSISMIS (are you a guy who believes on such things? ewwww). Were you there? Could you corroborate who is TELLING THE TRUTH and WHO IS LYING? Huh? This is a crystal clear case of a Pinoy who loves TSISMIS
(2) NEDA BOARD does not ASSESS CONTRACTS. It’s in their mandate. Have you even read the Mandate of NEDA. I don’t know if you’re plain stubborn or naive. You better read some more. Don’t make your own LEGAL MANDATES like you have any idea what you’re talking about.
(3) Ahhhhh. Now do you know the definition of EXECUTIVE SESSION? I think what I wrote was pretty clear regarding the RULES OF THE SENATE on EXECUTIVE SESSIONS. It’s not a matter of who’s PRIVILEGE it was. THE RULE is the RULE. Not unless you’ve a person who’s fond of breaking rules to suit your own end then I would understand why your reasoning is like that.
4) Where there is SCOOP media follows. Is the SENATE the only venue to as you call “ferret out the truth?” Have you even heard of another Branch of Government called JUDICIARY or just now? The Senate can only do as much. It does not even have the power to PROSECUTE – it can recommend filing of cases, that’s all. If there are matters that BORDER on CRIMINAL ACTS (with CIVIL LIABILITIES), the proper venue is the COURTS not the LEGISLATIVE BRANCH of GOVERNMENT. Do I need to explain this further to you?
It’s so easy to ALLEGE, to ACCUSE anybody especially in the Senate there’s some form of “immunity” accorded to certain individuals. You tell me, who DECIDES if there a CRIME COMMITTED, the Senate of the Courts?
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 6:16 pm
grd, i still have my day job but i’d help in whatever way i can.
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 6:30 pm
cvj, just as i’ve thought.
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 6:45 pm
grd, same here.
tonio on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 6:57 pm
brian, devils:
i think the baseball analogy you refer to is a “walk”; where the pitcher, knowing there are other players on base, throws successive balls to make a player that they perceive as a home run hitter not to get his turn at bat because he’s liable to drive the other players on base home. this is usually done if they also know that a weak batter will be on deck next. the good player gets to first base and the weak player is put to bat where the pitcher has a better chance to strike him out.
i suppose the analogy is pretty apt.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 6:58 pm
karah, don’t forget we have a government by public opinion, as in all democracies. and that grandstanding may work sometimes, but can also boomerang, too, which is also the kind of cosmic check and balance society has on politicians.
recall that every televised hearing is a committee hearing, sometimes even combined ones (zte is 3 committees conducting hearings jointly). i agree with you 100% that they’re disorganized, sloppy, and rude. all the real information was produced in the first 2 hours or so and the extra 9 hours were pointless.
but then, the senate’s style is no different from the way many meetings are conducted here at home.
also, i wouldn’t know which committees do and don’t meet, but again, perhaps some don’t need to, and so, they don’t.
i agree re: transparency in spending and most especially, in the process of legislation, it’s difficult to track a bill as it makes its way through the legislative mill. ditto, the budget.
personally i want non-stop coverage of all senate sessions (and the house too) so the citizen has the option to tune into the senate at any given moment to spot check on who’s there and what they’re doing. just as i beleive kids should be obligated, every so often, to visit congress and watch a session.
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:04 pm
cjv, and in what form would that help be? i’m sure it’s a patriotic act like “blogging†(anti-gloria and anti-elitist theme).
Bokyo on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:12 pm
mlq3,
I like it that way also and to suggest that not just ordinary kids, but those belonging to the top of their class, rich and poor.
nash on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:14 pm
Karah,
Yes, the senators didn’t exactly do a good job.
If they handled the Enron Case, it would still be alive today fleecing pensioners.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:18 pm
MLQ3 I am not so sure whether this “Public Opinion Mechanism: in society does work. If yes, why then there are a lot of RECYCLED POLITICIANS? (across the board). This is true not only for the Senate but for the Lower House and the LGU’s as well. Maybe some Politicians suffer the consequences in one term but the next Elections, that Politician gets an Elected position again. I am sure you know what I’m talking about. I am made to think at times that it’s just a CYCLE – the Opposition now becomes the Administration later on then vice versa. All the same persons vying for the same positions over and over again.
Yes, the questions become REPETITIVE and some Senators become BROKEN RECORDS. There seems to be a vaccum in the “Research Staff” of the Senators. I know there’s no such thing as a perfect Hearing but at least some DECENCY, ORGANIZATION, and WORKABLE SYSTEM would be much appreciated by the very Public that gives them their SALARY and their KICKBACKS (though without the consent of the Taxpayers,
).
Regarding Committees, there are 36 Standing Committees and 21 Ad Hoc/Oversight Committees. All in all there are 57 Committees with 24 Senators. I wonder, was there a time they thought of STREAMLINING the Committes like scrapping some and integrating them with the others? Or they don’t do it precisely because each COMMITTEE has it’s own BUDGET. And BUDGET means $$$$ whether the Committee functions or not.
I don’t think a LEGISLATION that would open the books of the Senators and Congressman/women for that matter vis a vis their Expenditures would see the light of day. It would be met with a lot of opposition. There’s also no mechanism to easily locate BILLS and RESOLUTIONS.
Your suggestion might be addressed if the Government utilizes its resources for Broadcast. I don’t understand why Government owned TV Networks are either USELESS or FINACIALLY BLEEDING. Maybe one channel could become a broadcast station for purely Sessions in the House and Senate, even some Landmark cases in the Supreme Court and some Cabinet Meetings (the latter I think is being done occasionally).
Even in terms of attendance, there are a lot of Congressmen/women who are either tardy or absend most of the time. I am not sure with the Senate.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:22 pm
Nash The only way to speed up the process is that after the Senate investigates, they can recommend to fast-track CRIMINAL LIABILITIES thru the OMBUDSMAN or thru the concerned PROSECUTOR’S OFFICE.
They should STICK TO THE ISSUE then do their job. I would even support good cooperation between the Senate and the Ombudsman and cooperation between the Senate and the DOJ.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:34 pm
Karah,
I’m glad you drink Starbucks only on weekends, at least thats something about you in moderation. Please switch to cigarettes (filters) specifically manufactured by Philip Morris and Fortune Tobacco, they’re less harmful to your lungs, you don’t smell too bad, and you’ll be helping me in my job (paper used in softpacks). You can be a formidable opponent in a debate but I’m sure when you commit yourself to something you believe in, you go the extra mile just to see it through. Imagine this, a Philippines following the “Singapore” model. Not easy, extremely herculean – but not an impossibility. This takes us to stage 1.
About Stage 1 socialist reforms (land reform and industrial policy). I don’t think this is something new, its a matter of semantics really. Take away the “taboo” word “socialist” stick with “Land Reform” and Industrial Policy. I believe there is a provision in the constitution for Land Reform – if I remember Meriam Santiago was once appointed to this position (please correct me if I’m wrong). If she was, I wonder why a genuine land reform was not implemented, she’s supposed to be our resident “dragon lady?” She could’ve started with Hacienda Luisita. Industrial Policy, cvj can you expound on this please? I don’t think we need a bloody revolution for this only “political will.”
I believe we should have an “end in mind” then proceed to form or organization, then to personalities – putting names in the organizational chart, our “dream team” if you like.
cvj on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:39 pm
grd, yeah blogging is part of it, but the other part is reading and listening so i can learn more and keep myself informed on issues that matter.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 7:57 pm
hey what does “your comment is awaiting moderation” mean?
I only tried to explain stage 1
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 8:01 pm
karah, that’s a good idea about utilizing govt owned tv networks and maybe radio stations too to cover legislative, judiciary as well as the executive sessions/activities. it will surely help educate the electorates and help the people find out who are those public officials doing their jobs and those who are just sleeping.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 8:05 pm
“find out who are those public officials doing their jobs and those who are just sleeping.”
There was a study of sorts on attendance re the senate, I believe Jamby was one of those perenially absent.
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 8:15 pm
ramrod, I’m simply referring to the disgusting conduct of our senators during the investigation and not about those zte players. on the other hand, is there such a person out there specially public officials who will choose to be poor these days when faced with say USD100M?
what does “your comment is awaiting moderation†mean?
it means mlq3 has to approve your comment. maybe you included a link in your comment.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 8:31 pm
grd,
I agree with you on that, for one they should have come in prepared, (my post graduate classmates could’ve done a better job), two, they needed a lesson in effective persuasion, three, they should’ve reigned in their egos -Dick Gordon, I didn’t like the way he treated the committee chairman. I used to admire the guy even though I had the bad experience of going against his favored supplier in a bidding for X-ray for Subic (a long time ago), three, some of them lacked credibility to be involved in such a hearing ie Jingoy – he was also linked to the smuggling issues in customs in his father’s time. Basically, it defeated the purpose but then if the purpose was for the media to generate air time and sell newspapers – it served its purpose well.
Frankly, if I was also offered Usd100M, my imagination would run wild with so many schemes of “how to get away scot free” with it not to mention as many rationalizations to make what I will be doing acceptable to my conscience.
grd on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 9:09 pm
“if the purpose was for the media to generate air time and sell newspapers – it served its purpose well.” ramrod
yeah, it seems that’s really the intention of our “good” senators to get media mileage out of this latest brouhaha. arrogance is the name of the game now in the senate. no wonder they’re being ridiculed and lambasted from all quarters.
“Frankly, if I was also offered Usd100M, my imagination would run wild with so many schemes of “how to get away scot free†with it not to mention as many rationalizations to make what I will be doing acceptable to my conscience.”
hahaha. you made my day.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 9:39 pm
Justice in waiting said, “Let’s not be technical as to the amount or currency of the Bribe. The bribe itself is a crime in this case, be it any currency or in any amount.”
Right! I told grd pretty much the same thing over in a previous thread, NOT TO DISMISS bribes just because they are “barya”. That’s how corruption snowballs big time!
Geo on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 9:53 pm
The Senate has been really unimpressive, to say it nicely.
But why is the media just fueling the fires? Again? Rather than seperate fact from fiction, it seems the media is willing to run with every rumor, innuendo and wild accusation. In fact, sad to say, I’ve been seeing “reporters” and “anchormen” creating their own scenarios on tv and then treating their theses as valid “stories” which need to be fleshed out. Amazing.
Instead of getting sifted, unadulterated info…we get distortions and conspiracy theories.
The Senate and the media are dynamic bedfellows…but after all the fireworks, screaming and contortions, they don’t seem to create an offspring with legs. Mirrors, heat and lights…then zero. I’ve seen this movie several times now. I know the ending, too.
Willy on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 9:53 pm
Take two – the following should have been the more decent script:
Abalos: Sec me 200 ka dito.
Neri: What?!?! you trying to bribe me?? What do you think of me?? I only act based on merits!! (leaves off in a huff)
..later…
Neri: Madam Pres, Abalos tried to bribe me over the NBN deal.
GMA: What?!?! Abalos tried to bribe you?? Don’t do or say anything in the meantime, lets keep it discreet but I will check it out immediately. Stay put and await further instructions.(orders immediate investigation in a huff)
..later…(as deal is investigated discreetly in detail)…
GMA: Whats this about you offering Neri a 200M bribe?
Abalos: No, no Madam!..I was just talking about his golf score, for christsake!
rego on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 9:55 pm
“You know I’ve spent as much time looking at this blog as I am monitoring developments in my assigned markets. Actually, its kind of a “stress relief†activity for me.”
———–
Ramrod,
For more than a year, its works the same way for me. despite my hectic sked contractor ( yes, karl, Im into construction and designs where I can use my matsci and eng background)I never fail to take a look at this blog especally when I am drafting a design in my PC doing my online studies. I even visit this site during my short break time in the project site. It is stress relieving kahit yung mga bangayan.
I also feel its a way of connecting to the people back home. The same that I never miss going to Baryo Videoke Resto ( with Pinoy Band on the weekends) in Roosevelt Av every week end. I think it helps bring back my sanity after a crazy week. Just to be able to speak tagalog with people around you pagkatapos mong mabubulol bulol sa keenglis the whole weekdays is already good relief for me.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:06 pm
One of the former bosses in the company of the company I worked for in Europe who was in charge of a big unit in the company, used to say loud and clear that “Everybody has a price.” (Sort of name your price or government officals can be bought, etc.)
Well, it didn’t take long for him and his salesmen to commit an error, his unit was slapped by OECD with a hefty fine, forbidden to participate in any bids in the Asian country where the bribing of foreign officials took place, the boss and the regional sales manager (both Europeans) were personally made to pay hefty fines, were put on the OECD black list, they were then sacked by the company but it didn’t end there: the European country’s justice system slapped them furthermore with a suspended 12 and 18 month prison sentence respectively. The assets of the Asian country’s officials found in Europe who accepted the bribe were frozen and were declared persona non grata, i.e., they are barred from entering the EU for a number of years.
ZTE officials, just because they are foreigners or belong to a foreign commerical entity must not be spared if investigations into the NBN deal are pursued.
rego on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:08 pm
Pero dahil nga madalian ang pag post ko ng comment, I always cringe everytime i reread my comments pag nagrereply. Its always full of syntax, spelling,and gramatical erors even non sequitors. Nakaktuwa lang na wala masyadong pumansisn sa mag errors na yun kahit ang mga mahigpit kung kabangayan dito like CVJ and Manuel.
Oh BTW, karah, ganyan lang talaga si Manuel Buencamino. He has his “style” of replying to comments pero Ok pa rin naman syang kabangayan dito.
I encourage you to post more comments though. Just brace your self for the “gangbang” everytime your opinon differs from them. And more of topic In the end you will just enjoy it. Been there than that… di ba Bencard?
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:12 pm
Used to be easy for foreign companies to deal with Asian governments but not anymore – OECD has strengthened the rules and regulations against corruption.
Corporate top officials are themselves liable for corruption charges and risk going to prison if or when bribery or corruption to land a contract with a foreign govt’s officials is proven.
Since 1998, things have become tough for European companies dealing with Asian govts.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:22 pm
Rego Well, I know how to play mind games with people if they play that game with me.
I really don’t know these people. If they agree to my opinion, fine. If they don’t, fine.
If people stick to the issue, I will stick to the issue. If people want some mudslinging, well I’ve got no problems with that.
I’m just playing, nothing serious that might cause some of the people in here some chest spasms .
Needless to say, it’s a Filipino attitude for some people to gang up on one person like bees. Very typical. I am not surprised at all.
rego on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:30 pm
Good, karah, good!
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:34 pm
Manila Bay Watch Though it is true that the OECD has strengthened its Monitors and Enforcement policies, “corruption” can never be eradicated. Minimized and lessened, yes. There are a lot of creative ways nowadays to evade detection. The USA is the ultimate example. They form all sorts of mechanisms to “bribe or shall we say compensate” someone that’s part of a “DEAL.” Not unless “bribery and corruption charges” that’s spilled to the public, corruption is still a day-to-day affair in many parts of the world.
One thing why some cases progress is because there are some valid complaints. It’s not easy to PROSECUTE, GATHER EVIDENCE, much more bring these CHARGES to COURT.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:37 pm
Karah,
Agree entirely! ““corruption†can never be eradicated. Minimized and lessened, yes. There are a lot of creative ways nowadays to evade detection. The USA is the ultimate example.”
An example huge US firm doing defence business in the Philippines has turned around the Ricoh law so smartly, making it difficult to expose them.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:40 pm
Having said that, it doesn’t mean of course that people should countenance corruption, the bribing of govt officials, the acceptance of bribes, etc. as normal par for the course of doing business.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:42 pm
Manila Bay Watch I don’t think that the Philippines is a member of OECD. It’s not something automatic, you know. There are prerequisites. If I may ask, what are the statistics on Foreign Nationals from Member Countries of the OECD that got implicated and eventually slapped with all sorts of sanctions? If you talk about Asia (ASEAN perhaps as an example), well, you how Government Contracts are bagged in countries like Indonesia, Philippines, Cambodia, Burma (Myanmar), Vietnam and to some extent Thailand. It’s all about the $$$$ and this is reality.
You’re talking about Europeans. To date, China is not yet a member of OECD. I am not very sure about Jurisdictional matters but I don’ think the OECD has jurisdiction overNon-Member countries. Take for example ZTE Officials. Not unless these officials would be tried in Mainland China would they be punished. There’s always the consideration of “diplomacy” if ZTE officials would be implicated in the Philippines.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:48 pm
Manila Bay Watch It’s a judgement call if we’re talking about Businesspeople. BRIBERY can also take the form of different shapes – it can be CASH or KIND (although the latter being a more shall we say discreet or acceptable move). I for one abhor BRIBERY and CORRUPTION but looking at reality, it’s rampant and it’s everywhere.
It’s a TIT for TAT thing. Now, no business would not look at the BOTTOMLINE. They would do anything just to bag contracts to satisfy the BOTTOMLIME. Oh well.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:51 pm
For a private enterprise whose primary aim is to do business and to make profit legitimately, corrupting foreign govt officials, giving bribes to a nation client’s elected officials and bestowing so many freebies on these govt officials, these corporate people often find that it’s no guarantee that they would land the business with the foreign govt anyway.
So for most of these companies, corruption, bribery, whatever, to try to land business with a foreign govt is extremely frustrating as well. They would rather do business LEGALLY or avoid all these ‘unguaranteed ways’ of achieving business results.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 10:57 pm
Karah,
Maybe! The company I used to work for recently landed an 800 million Euro contract with NATO on the strendth of the company’s techn specs beating all other nations’ competing for the project.
The regional corporate officials and the director directly in charge of the company at NATO DID NOT BRIBE ANY OFFICIAL in NATO – NOT ONE of the NATO officials accepted an invitation to a free lunch, free dinner and not even a bottle of wine during the evaluation period of bids that took 1 year!
This is the same company whose unit was slapped by OECD sometime in the 90s for bribing their way into a contract with an Asian govt!
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:03 pm
During the drafting of evaluation procedures, no member of the NATO’s evaluating committee, would even talk privately with any of the corporate officials, not even with a fellow national who was a member of that committee. Discussions on evaluation procedures were public, i.e., in committees, so please don’t say it cannot be done.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:04 pm
Karah,
I believe the Philippines is a signatory to the OECD anti-corruption treaty.
China I don’t know.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:06 pm
“Used to be easy for foreign companies to deal with Asian governments but not anymore – OECD has strengthened the rules and regulations against corruption.
Corporate top officials are themselves liable for corruption charges and risk going to prison if or when bribery or corruption to land a contract with a foreign govt’s officials is proven.
Since 1998, things have become tough for European companies dealing with Asian govts.”
Yes this is true. Our company spent the past 10 years doing “team building, training, acculturating, everything imaginable” our Chinese colleagues and vice versa with the Europeans precisely to create a strong foundation based on core values, most especially in business relationships. In fact, that was one of the questions asked at the final interview (panel), “knowing how business is sometimes done in your country, meaning bribes and etc., are you capable of getting the business the same way?” (Its a trick question that if you don’t study the culture of the company you’re applying for – your dead). Its true, you just don’t get sued, you’ll be jailed. In fact I can’t even joke about it, thats why I like it here, I can jest about the idea of taking a bribe without fear of being “scolded” by an “Escudero.”
Karah, don’t take it personally, I noticed that bloggers’ bark but never bite. I liked your comments, in fact they echo mine though I’m not as politically savy as you are, I’m learning a lot here.
I’d like to believe your views, your position on things, are respected and sometimes we have to agree to disagree on some issues.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:07 pm
Also, what I’m expounding on is not so much OECD in relation to the Philippines. The examples I gave is to refute the belief that corruption should be accepted as a normal par for the course of doing business or that the public should countenance corruption, bribery or whatever of govt officials.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:08 pm
Manila Bay Watch With regards to Private Enterprises, these are risks they are willing to make to bag Big Projects in Infrastructure, Utilities, Information Technology, what have you. Yes, there are no guarantees but the REWARDS are big if they hit the bullseye.
It is also a fact that there are some companies that do LEGIT BUSINESS PRACTICES and STIFF CORPORATE ETHICS. But then again, in a large organization, one cannot guarantee that all the members comply. That’s why Big Corporations employ the BEST LAWYERS in TOWN to “insulate” them from any accountability if and when some of their members misbehave or if MISBEHAVING is a part of their Corporate Culture.
Corruption in the strict sense of the word could not only mean MONEY but also things even decisions. I don’t think there’s a 100% Corrupt-Free Company that exist in the world from TOP to BOTTOM and BOTTOM to TOP.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:15 pm
My rule of thumb when dealing with the Philippine market – avoid government contracts, stick to private corporations most especially multinationals, SAP users, ISO certified, HACCP, etc. so thats its easy to compare (or not) apples to bananas specswise. Otherwise its just plain haggling.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:15 pm
Manila Bay Watch In bagging a PROJECT or a DEAL, there’s a gamut of things to consider. Of course Financial Capability is one; another would be the Technical Know How; another thing would be Track Record; and in some cases, some GREASE MONEY. It’s not so much that the Company does not have faith in its own Core Competency rather they also want to short-cut the process somewhere.
Well, as they say, there are a lot of CREATIVE WAYS nowadays to give away bribes and tokens. If you are convinced that nothing of that sort happened then good for you and the organization you belong. I think that in Europe, Corporate Ethics is given a premium because people there do earn what they deserve and have a good life even if they are Middle or Senior Exectives.
Maybe they learned their lesson in the 90’s? Who knows
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:19 pm
Karah,
I accept that “I don’t think there’s a 100% Corrupt-Free Company that exist in the world from TOP to BOTTOM and BOTTOM to TOP.” and will even go as far as to say that to stamp out corruption, which is the number one cause of poverty in a nation like the Philippines, is extremely difficult if not dowright impossible but the BOTTOM LINE IS IT IS WRONG for both corporate officials to bribe and govt officials to accept the bribe.
THE BOTTOM LINE: The public must not countenance that sort of business behaviour from their govt officials or from any foreign company officials and should not continue believing that it’s the normal par for the course of doing business with govt.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:20 pm
Ramrod,
“My rule of thumb when dealing with the Philippine market – avoid government contracts, stick to private corporations ”
Good one if your company doesn’t have to deal in projects with govts.
TDC on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:22 pm
SHAMELESS!!(basta junket,Kasama si Miriam)
“What makes GMA trip to China more interesting is that Sen. Miriam Santiago, the senator who said during the Senate’s probe into the ZTE deal that the Chinese invented not only civilization in Asia but also corruption, is accompanying her.”ABS-CBN news on-line)
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:22 pm
Manila Bay Watch Toeing the line (being straight) is much like an EXCEPTION rather than the NORM in the Philippines. I know this for fact because I’ve experienced the Corporate Culture. Corruption is everywhere in SMALL and BIG things. This can be attributed to a lot of things: low salary for Middle and Senior Managers. Corruption happens in the Philippines because of two things: For Economic Gain or just plain Kleptocracy.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:26 pm
Ramrod,
I think I read somewhere in a past post of yours that you were dealing in wood (am I wrong)? A French friend of mine used to be commercial director for a part of Asia that included the Philippines but I think the mother company was Finnish. He said pretty much the same thing – he’d rather avoid dealing with RP govt officials, said, it was really frustrating. This more than 15 years ago (he’s retired since).
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:27 pm
Karah,
I believe you very very much: “Manila Bay Watch Toeing the line (being straight) is much like an EXCEPTION rather than the NORM in the Philippines.”
Really I do!
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:27 pm
“THE BOTTOM LINE: The public must not countenance that sort of business behaviour from their govt officials or from any foreign company officials and should not continue believing that it’s the normal par for the course of doing business with govt.”
But how can we stamp this out when even our “holier than thou” senate has members who dabble or are still dabbling in corrupt business practices and some even have the audacity to be arrogant as if possesing a “moral high ground?” Who do we believe in nowadays, the administration or the opposition?
Better yet, what questions do we ask young political hopefuls who will become our future leaders for us to determine if they can be corrupted or are corrupt already?
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:30 pm
I have experienced what you might call “an exception” in RP, we landed a contract with an agency in RP govt (3 million dollars or thereabouts so it was really small) without resorting to bribes.
And believe me, for me and my team, never mind that the contract was tiny, for us it was one of our greatest achievements – we were ecstatic!
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:35 pm
karah, the recycling is a function of several things, including dynasties (and why they succeed, politically), finance, and term limits. there are some dynasties people like, some which people don’t like but are bribed to support, and others that terrorize the voters. campaign finance reform is one way to level the playing field; others want to prohibit dynasties, which is an unfulfilled intention of the constitution. the question has been debated here in this blog over and over again.
my understanding is there are 2 committees per senator to chair, so everyone gets to chair, and everyone’s happy. this was a post-edsa innovation, as far as i know, started by senate president salonga.
regarding gov’t broadcast facilities: i joined a committee that was formed by media people upon a (very good) initiative of the government, to create a version of the pbs system in america. it bogged down on questions of regional vs. national programming, and then, eventually, on the demand for autonomy from presidential control but the legal reality that the board would have to be appointed by the president anyway; then the priorities of the government changed.
it’s easier to get away with non-attendance at the house than the senate. in the house, they simply dispensed with keeping attendance records because the attendance was so poor.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:35 pm
Ramrod It’s quite good that your company is INVESTING in people. All these seminars, workshops, conferences do have effects. The bottomline is ATTITUDE. In this regard, the Corporate Culture should emanate from the very ones on top. It’s not only LEADING BY EXAMPLE but it’s DOING BY EXAMPLE.
In a particular Country or setting, one must be able to have an assessment and analysis of the PERVADING CULTURE. It’s okay if you’re dealing with a new company with new people (mainly fresh graduates). But if you’re dealing with a company who has been in the business for some time and there are reports of CORRUPTION, then it’s another matter altogether.
In some cultures, giving IN KIND (not anything that has something to do with monetary gain) might not be considered a BRIBE but mere “reciprocal business relationship.” Now how do you reconcile this particular idea vis a vis the different Corporate Cultures in different countries .
Well, our own uniqueness makes the world round and exciting. There are times we agree. There are times we disagress. As long as we respect each other’s views, then I don’t think there’s a problem in that.
ramrod on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:40 pm
manila bay watch,
Yes I’m with a Forestry, Paper and Board Company. Its Finnish but my boss is a Frenchman, when we meet its like united nations, there’s someone from Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and even Myanmar at least for the South East Asia team, where the Philippines is part of and add also China. If you think we have it bad here in the Philippines, you should hear my colleague in Indonesia, much worst Myanmar – he’s always asking to trade places with me. To tell you the truth, if you don’t count China, were only second to Singapore in terms of productivity at least in this industry. That much I’m proud of, its just that we seem to be more proud of our “corrupt” officials also the way our media gives them mileage nationally and internationally.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:42 pm
Ah Ramrod,
I believe I know the company…
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:45 pm
Indonesisa is an impossible place to do business with (particularly with govt.)
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:50 pm
re: ramrod and discussion on contracts, i think our country is a perfect case of so much anti corruption legislation piled on top of each other that the end result is to foster corruption. any person in business you encounter, who attempts a government contract, has horror stories (other businesses simply refuse to do business with the government as a rule). a lot of procedures that in themselves aim to stop corruption end up providing opportunities for corruption, not necessarily out of anyone’s greed, but because otherwise business would be impossible.
TDC on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:50 pm
Kaya pala quiet si Cory sa NBN deal.May utang na loob kay Abalos.No wonder Noynoy Aquino was so low profile in the senate hearing.So disappointing. Akala ko,the Aquinos were different from the typical politicians.Personal “Utang na loob “more important than national interests!
tonio on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:51 pm
hmm… corruption. can’t really tell you how to get rid of it, especially in this country. in our culture, the concept of lamang, or getting one over another, is lauded as a positive value. those who beat the system, their business partners, the people, etc.; in other words those who win at the expense of others, are seen as resourceful (maabilidad).
now i’m not against resourcefulness or working for one’s advancement. what i’m against is glorifying the act of stepping on other people to do it.
mlq3 on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:53 pm
TDC: re Miriam, scuttlebutt is that her comment on China and corruption torpedoed her chances to sit on the international court of justice or whatever that is, where China controls a crucial bloc of votes for voting in the judges. so if this is true, she’s going to kowtow and lobby for China’s support.
anyone familiar with china? my understanding is the president’s trip is scheduled during a major multi-day holiday in china, which means it’s pretty much a meaningless trip.
karah on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:54 pm
MLQ3 Article II (Declaration of Principles & State Policies). Section 26. “The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service and PROHIBIT POLITICAL DYNASTIES as may be defined by law.”
I don’t have the time to go into the “Notes by the Constitutional Commission” but why didn’t they DELINEATE this provision rather than saying “as may be defined by law.” I know there were some Bills that we passed but it’s gathering DUST somewhere (as expected).
Yes, I know some of these Political Dynasties. Some are not only liked but LOVED by the LOCALS. Some reign by FEAR and TERRORISM. Some buy their positions thru Vote-buying and all sorts of things. I don’t know when this ENABLING LAW would see the light of day.
So what’s the RATIONALE behind this 2 Committees per Senator. I would suppose there are Committees that need less attention but come to think of it, if the Senators really do their jobs, they should be very busy.
A PBS System in RP sounds good. There are a lot of Government Resources and facilities that go to waste because they are underutilized. By what you said, the reasons why the said “initiative” bogged down was EDITORIAL AUTONOMY, is that it?
There should be a law that would EXPEL Congressmen/women and Senators who are absent for a certain number of days. I mean, they are PUBLIC SERVANTS, right? Well, they have Public Servants wherein they are the ones being SERVED. Ironic.
tonio on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:54 pm
tdc:
the Aquinos/Cojuangcos are old-school hacienderos. why did you ever expect them to behave in an enlightened fashion?
TDC on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:55 pm
MLQ3:what’s your view on Cory’s visit to Abalos’ home?I was personally disappointed.
Manila Bay Watch on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:55 pm
Tonio,
Re “corruption. can’t really tell you how to get rid of it, especially in this country. in our culture, the concept of lamang, or getting one over another, is lauded as a positive value.”
Yes, corruption is like the illegal drug culture; is the person buying an illegal substance a
criminal or is it the pusher who sold him the drugs?
TDC on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:56 pm
tonio:Sayang naman the sacrifice of ninoy
TDC on Mon, 1st Oct 2007 11:59 pm
“Indonesia is an impossible place to do business with (particularly with govt.)MBW”
I worked there for some time.I think it is more corrupt there.Mas garapal! At least here,they are more”subtle” in their clever ,corrupt ways.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:00 am
manolo, yes this week is ‘Golden Week’ in China (and Hongkong). No work for one week. This is the time of the year where people to go back to their provinces.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:02 am
cjv then i don’t suppose a presidential trip during this time of year can possibly be productive.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:05 am
“cjv then i don’t suppose a presidential trip during this time of year can possibly be productive.mlq3″
gloria has had probably more junkets than any other president! presidential perks.she likes the pomp and glory.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:06 am
tdc, i was surprised. i’m glad cory didn’t say anything to exonerate abalos. i’m disappointed she went, but i understand she went because during the coups, abalos was one of the 3 metro manila mayors that loyally supported the government. so she went because he asked, and because he had stuck by her through thick and thin. our culture dictates that when a person is down and out, you don’t turn your back, and the invitation was for mass and the resignation announcement.
i’m not as upset as other people, if only because his obvious attempt to save his ass aside, abalos has quit, and many people were asking him to quit for ages, so when he did, at least for now, i’m not inclined to stomp on him. but i do support his being put through the legal wringer. resignation was long overdue, so no brownie points for that.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:06 am
mlq3,
I really hope Meriam gets that position “good riddance,” but unfortunately they might allow her to speak first and they’ll find out the hard way that even a psychoanalyst will go nuts following her “free flowing” conversation.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:08 am
TDC,
Re “I think it is more corrupt there. Mas garapal! ”
I know! Was forced to ask corporate intl division to take it off my map when I was working in Asia but intl division threatened to throw me to Africa so I held on for a while until Thailand was put on my radar.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:08 am
Manila Bay Watch It’s the ATTITUDE. It’s the MINDSET. It’s the PARADIGM. It’s the HABIT. Now, these are things that are very hard to change especially for people who got used to a certain HABIT OF CORRUPTION (big and small ways).
It’s not only wrong, it’s ILLEGAL and such these people should be charged in court and be convicted. But then again, if you’re dealing with pretty powerful and influential people – even going to court is FUTILE as it is.
Maybe start with how CHILDREN are EDUCATED and how to INCULCATE in them that BRIBERY and CORRUPTION is something to be frowned on. I don’t know how these values would be integrated into the Curriculum especially for Young Minds.
Any ideas?
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:09 am
Karah,
Right you are! Absolutely dead on.
Yes, I do believe that education should start with children – am all for it! “Maybe start with how CHILDREN are EDUCATED and how to INCULCATE in them that BRIBERY and CORRUPTION is something to be frowned on. I don’t know how these values would be integrated into the Curriculum especially for Young Minds.”
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:10 am
tdc, my point is precisely that: no opportunity for pomp and glory (both of which have a place in diplomacy and governance), period. everyone’s on vacation. they might even have problems scraping up some low-level flunky to attend to the president. and her meeting with hu jintao? maybe they will wave to each other at the special olympics. seems to me this is a weekend escape.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:11 am
Perhaps, invite lecturers to speak to students in classes? Or incorporate a course or civic action thing in the curricula, something to do with what corruption is… not only monetary as you say but other things that can be equated with corruption?
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:13 am
mlq3 I have always looked at cory and the aquinos through rose-colored glasses bcausemof the supreme sacrifice of Ninoy.But her silence on the ZTE deal was deafening.I hope it had nothing to do with “her personal utang na loob”to abalos.
We the great masses of people put ourselves on the line in Edsa 1.Not abalos.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:13 am
karah one idea (impractical, maybe) is to figure out that some things are compounding illegal behavior, by being decreed illegal, illogically so, in the first place.
too tired to think of specific examples but for example, you either have to have a draconian rule forbidding officials to be godparents while in office or prohibiting godchildren from communicating with godparents while they’re in office, or prohibiting fraternity members from entering public service, etc. etc., forbidding birthday celebrations period, or…
coming up with a reasonable allowance for gifts which then count as an official’s end of year bonus, i dunno.
frombelow on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:15 am
the visit of cory to abalos made my perceptions, fears, hopes and rational analysis of the political situation in the country topsy turvy. Ang gulo talaga. Ayaw ko na.
frombelow on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:16 am
pero simple lang naman yung sa akin. Tuloy lang kayo.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:18 am
tdc, possible, maybe she did hold silent on zte because of that. but then, she’s been pretty silent on everything except microfinance since 2006.
i’ll give you an example of how these things work. even at my most critical of estrada, if dona mary had died at any point during edsa dos, i would have gone to her wake. she went to my father’s wake, i would go to hers. every other consideration, including her son’s political status, would be immaterial to me.
now before he became known as abalos the comelec chief, once upon a time abalos was an anti-marcos fighter and cory’s duty-bound to remember that.
just as if gma suddenly died, i would go pay my respects at her coffin because once upon a time, she’d been my boss.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:20 am
Why is GMA going on this junket when by all intents and purposes she needs to stay put and face these issues head on as any sensible leader would do? This make it worse for her as it will give everybody an impression that she is avoiding something. I believe this will definitely weaken her hold on some important allies most especially the military where “machismo” dictates that you follow a leader braver, smarter, and stronger than you. If this happens not even the chain-of-command will be able to save her.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:20 am
Ramrod I’m not that well versed with your Industry. What I know is that INDONESIA has one of the cheapest if not the cheapest paper (which is cheaper nowadays in terms of Paper – China or Indonesia?).
In the Philippines, you get a lot of trees somewhere in Northeast Luzon and of course the Forests in Northern Mindanao.
They say in Indonesia, as long as you have money, you can pretty much do a lot if not all the things that you want. Don’t know if same is true in Myanmar which by way recently have a very RESTIVE citizenry. It might burst anytime. The citizens are angry, the military are abusive. It might lead to a Civil War but I hope this would be resolved in a peaceful manner. By the looks of it, the Military Juntas does not have any plans to give up power. Even the Special UN Envoy does not have access to POWERS THAT BE.
So how’s the Forestry, Paper, and Board Industry these days? With all the noise on ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION and the ever restless GREENPEACE and other NGO’s. They are all blabber but I don’t think it’s that easy to eradicate ILLEGAL LOGGING (for paper purposes that is).
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:24 am
Sayang,We really don’t have national leaders who are heroic,selfless and worthy of emulation by the young.We don’t have a Nelson Mandela who is truly a great MORAL and political leader.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:30 am
MLQ3 Employing DRACONIAN MEASURES sure would be met not only with strong opposition, even violent opposition. I don’t think these things can be done under a DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM.
Come to think of it, the “root of the problem(s)” cannot be addressed by one, two, three, four, but maybe hundreds of measures (that might include yours though impractical they may seem).
As a start, a PUBLIC OFFICIAL should not have any other RELATIVE in Government up to the THIRD DEGREE of CONSANGUINITY. But this measure would in turn be replaced by CRONIES of Politicians – Friends, yes, Godchilren. Wow, there seems to be a lot of loopholes that should be covered.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:35 am
Ramrod GMA will go to China because she likes to eat Authentic SHAOMAI, BAOZI (siopao), and Noodles there.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:35 am
MLQ3:I can understand the idea of going to the wake of even your worst enemy.I would do that too.A Christian duty.
But Abalos resigned simply to avoid impeachement!
Cory should have considered the feelings of millions of Filipinos who hold Abalos responsible for the electoral frauds in 2004 and 2007.
I consider Abalos’role in the electoral frauds his most serious crime against the Filipino people.Worse than his role in the NBN ZTE deal.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:38 am
I think eradicating (or at least minimizing) corruption in government involves increasing salaries to keep pace with market rates as well as cutting off public officials from the economy. I posted this suggestion last year:
1. Remove CDF from the legislators, this fund properly belongs to the Executive.
2. Increase the salaries of the legislators, governors and mayors to the level of a Board of Directors of a private company. This should be indexed to the CPI.
3. Upon taking office, politicians and their families should turn over all their assets and liabilities to a trust fund to be independently managed.
4. While in office, politicians and their families cannot spend anything beyond the salary. For tracking purposes, they are not allowed to use cash or personal credit cards. Issue them with tokens and a government debit card for all their disbursements. Treating a politician out or any other gifts would be considered a bribe.
5. Upon leaving office, a politician will not be allowed to receive employment for 5 or more years. He will instead continue receiving his salary and keep on paying using tokens and the government issued debit-card.
6. At the end of the 5 years, the trust fund will be given back to them as long as no one in their family is holding office.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:38 am
Karah,
You said it, greenpeace was on our backs for months, especially in Sweden and Russia where we source a lot of pulp (stuff paper is made of). The company allowed them to live with the forestry team, they went to work with them to witness firsthand, allowed them access to the mills, everything was open even the kitchen sink. The company has Forest Management Systems in place, plus so many certifications, mill emissions, energy savings, including sustainability. Bottomline, greenpeace gave us a clean bill of health. Of course, all these programs were quite expensive but worth it. Indonesia is another story, 50% of their pulp are illegally sourced, no sustainability programs whatsoever, never mind the pollution, etc. but their days of cheap prices are numbered as their government is clamping fast on these illegal loggers and they’re running out of trees. The Chinese mills on the other hand seemingly have it good because their government is rich enough to subsidize them, hence even if they buy the pulp from Europe (we sell to them) they can still afford to sell cheap, but again this bubble will soon burst.
manuelbuencamino on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:42 am
ramrod,
she’s going to china for two reasons: one is to put distance between her and the ZTE controversy; two to reassure the Chinese they will get their advances back, somehow.
Realize that ZTE is a government-owned corporation. In other words, it’s owned by the communist party, So when GMA talks to Hu she is also talking to a beneficiary of ZTE deals.
Do you know that her trip to NYC was unplanned? My sources at the DFA tell me there was a flurry over briefing papers and all that when she decided to go to NYC at the last minute.
She ran away to avoid ambush interviews on ZTE. She left on the eve of Neri’s testimony,
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:45 am
tdc, there, she displayed her famous hard-headedness and a lack of recognition of the consequences a leader’s acts can have.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:47 am
tdc,
I say let Cory be human. As she said, she was there as a friend. She’s done her time in the public scrutiny, lets allow her the freedom enjoyed by a pedestrian, its bad enough her husband’s death is until now a big mystery, her daughter insists on being scandalous, and Noynoy is still a mama’s boy.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:52 am
cvj Well intentioned ideas but somebody ought to do the “number-crunching” to really gauge how much is how much if we talk about ACROSS THE BOARD “salary increase” for Public Officials. Some questions:
(a) Would a bigger salary be correlated to lesser intent and motivations on “kleptocracy?”
(b) Under what form of Government would the suggestions be done? This is quite impossible in the present set-up knowing that the very beneficiaries of this CDF are the Lawmakers themselves.
(c) The idea of a TRUST FUND might seem alien or foreign to most Filipinos. This is a practice in Western Nations and practice by some families in the Philippines which we might say wealthy. How would you introduce the TRUST FUND idea?
Under the present circumstances of your suggetions, the form of Government might be DICTATORIAL or AUTHORITARIAN ot institute all of these changes. Other than that, I don’t know how these measures can be pushed if we will rely on Democratic Processes.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:05 am
Mrs.Cory Aquino:Unsolicited advice po.Sana po next time,please consider the feelings of the Filipino people when you show VERY PUBLIC support to your loyal friends.We have great respect for you as awidow of Ninoy and as a President who helped restore our democratic institutions.
Abalos may have been anti-Marcos fighter (just like the millions who supported the “people power” revolution)BUT
made election a farce in this country (remember “Hello Garci,” Maguindanao” results).
I am not accusing him of the ZTE bribery.But I hold accountable as Comelec chief for all the electoral frauds
during his stewardship of the poll body.
Perceptions are more important than reality particularly in this country.
Ok po ba and mga ginawang kalokohan ni abalos poque nanalo naman si Noynoy?
I’m not a Marcos fanatic.
Just a an ordinary Filipino with feelings po.
manuelbuencamino on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:05 am
Re Miriam
1. She will not get the seat in ICJ because Jordan decided to run for reelection, That was the vacancy she was hoping to fill. Now all the pledges she got from Arab countries are gone. But of course the DFA is still under orders to concentrate on Miriam’s election. The DFA is not campaigning for any other Filipino candidate in any international body until the ICJ thing is finished.
2, Mirian actually knows a thing or two about Chinese corruption, She was, after all, head of the Bureau of Immigration.
3. Some enterprising reporter should take pictures of her properties to see if they match her SAL.
grd on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:09 am
cvj, what country are you talking about?
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:10 am
karah, i usually hate to post my entire column, particularly in a comment, but the original’s vanished from the interweb. re: salaries, you might find my march 15, 2004 column relevant:
Paying for honesty
THIS Wednesday, it will be forty seven years since President Ramon Magsaysay died in a plane crash. Since his death, time and again, candidates have been compared to Magsaysay, But what Magsaysay is most remembered for, among the dwindling number of Filipinos who still remember him, is his fanatical honesty. I have read articles concerning his insistence on separating expenses incurred during his presidency which were of an official nature, and expenses incurred for his family while living in Malacanang. Newspaper and magazine accounts at the time detailed how the president instructed that meals for his children’s friends were to be paid for from his salary, and that gasoline for his son’s car was to be funded by deductions from the president’s salary as well.
In the present day, when the President of the Philippines earns 300,000 pesos a year, or 25,000 pesos a month, this seems inconceivable. This made me wonder if this was even conceivable in Magsaysay’s time. Or any previous president’s time.
I will leave it to Solita Monsod to embark on a more scientific study of what I am about to reveal, but I think the figures I’ve arrived at are as good a rule of thumb as any to arrive at what presidents actually used to earn.
Under the 1935 Constitution, the salary of the president was 30,000 pesos an annum. To figure out what, say, this amount circa 1937, would be worth in terms of today’s pesos, I asked the help of Jeremy Morales Barns, who is an economist and historian. Since we couldn’t find tables that calculate, say, the equivalent of a peso in the year 1937 if you received a commensurate amount today, we resorted to first, figuring out what pesos were worth then, in dollars, figuring out what those dollars would be worth in today’s dollars, and then converting those dollars to today’s pesos. If course this doesn’t take things such as the cost of living, both then and now, into account, but it’s a start.
From the time of the Commonwealth until the administration of Diosdado Macapagal, the peso-dollar exchange rate was fixed at 2 to 1. So whether in 1937 or 1957, the president’s salary of 30,000 pesos was equivalent to 15,000 dollars. To find out what 15,000 dollars earned per year in 1937 would be equivalent to, in terms of what the dollar can purchase today, economists apparently refer to a table of “purchasing power conversion factors†prepared by the U.S. government. For example, you take 15,000 dollars circa 1937, multiply it by 12.814 (the factor according to the table), and the amount you get is what those 1937 dollars would be worth in the year 2004. You then multiply that amount by the current exchange rate and you get an idea of what a certain amount in 1937 could buy you in 2004.
To cut a long story short, in today’s peso terms, the president of the Philippines circa 1937 was earning an annual salary of 12.814 million pesos! A cool million pesos a month in today’s peso terms. Based on the 1937 appropriations act, among the lowest paid people in the government, janitors, were earning 18,000 pesos a month in terms of 2004 peso equivalents. Still a decent salary.
Based on the different rates in that table, the following deductions are possible: in 1946, Manuel Roxas was earning as president, the equivalent of 9.43 million pesos a year; in 1957, President Magsaysay was earning the equivalent of 6.54 million pesos a year! At that salary, it is certainly believable that President Magsaysay could honestly instruct Palace accountants to deduct the expenses of his children for food and entertainment, gas and sundries, from his salary, and send them to good private schools (it also explains how his predecessor, President Quirino, and successor, President Garcia, could afford to retire to comfortable but far from flashy homes, located on fairly large but not enormous lots, after they left office).
President Ramon Magsaysay could afford to be honest and do what he did –be strict about spending for personal, and official, purposes- without it being improbable. His predecessors and succesors, who were less stringent about separating Palace expenses for their families, could certainly have achieved the amount of savings required to retire with a modicum of style and comfort.
This indicates, to me, the problem with relying on the sweeping assertions made about some of our leaders of the past. Magsaysay’s memory, in particular, has been used to justify all sorts of sweeping assumptions. Among these assumptions was that he was an American stooge, a charismatic moron, a fluke representing a break with the past.
Magsaysay was many things but he was neither an American stooge nor a clean break with political traditions before him. He was unabashedly pro American, yes, but he was that as a member of a generation that was pro American and he was not the creature of America that people like to assume (including the Americans themselves). A new generation of American historians are pointing this out. What is closer to the truth is that he represents the most successful case of the Americans appropriating someone else’s success and passing it off as their own accomplishment.
After all, it was under him that the retail trade nationalization act was passed, which the Americans positively disliked; he was the President under whom the Laurel-Langley Agreement was negotiated, which advanced the date for the end of the concessions granted to Americans under the Parity Amendment. Magsaysay was the President who insisted that the Philippine flag had to fly over the U.S. bases and threatened to send the Philippine Army to break down barriers that he felt were insulting to Filipinos traveling to and from those bases. While his rhetoric was pro American, he accommodated officials who were critical of American policies. This points to another sweeping assumption which isn’t true: that there was no difference between the Liberals and the Nacionalistas. The Liberals were more for unabashed free trade; the Nacionalistas were, indeed, as we understand nationalism, more nationalistic in their policies.
There is a concrete reason why Magsaysay was so admired, even loved, in his time, and it little to do with a marvelous success of American advertising or the gullible nature of the electorate. It had to do with who he was, and the people seeing this as something genuine, and not manufactured.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:23 am
“I think eradicating (or at least minimizing) corruption in government involves increasing salaries to keep pace with market rates”
If we look at MLQ3’s account of Magsaysay, this makes sense and is actually practiced already by our neighbor asian country.
The trust funds I’m not sure would be acceptable.
All other reforms any political newbie will be able to think of will be shot down by powerful officials already in position especially if it affects their interests like businesses, lands, and dynasties.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:33 am
Karah, thanks for your questions:
(a) As Manolo explained in his column about Magsaysay(posted above) a big enough salary is needed to make honesty affordable. It would also encourage people from the private sector to consider public sector work as a career path. I agree that number crunching must be done to arrive at the optimal salary structure that prevents losses through corruption.
On the other hand, i think we need to put a leash on the political class by tracking their expenses using stored value cards. The technology is available to implement this and may even have a higher EIRR than the Broadband deal if it reduces losses due to corruption.
(b) As to the form of government into which this can be implemented, i think this would depend on how active the public sphere is. (The public sphere consists of the portion of the citizenry that is engaged and concerned with issues involving the government and governance.) If the public is sufficiently engaged, then we can arrive at a set of actions democratically.
(c) I think Filipinos are smart enough to understand the concept of a Trust Fund.
Democracy vs. dictatorship deals with questions of how to, not with questions of what to do. Although they are interrelated, i try not to mix up the two. I believe that arriving at actions in a democratic manner has value in itself which is why as a people, we need to learn to achieve things via open and genuine discourse, not via force or deception as Gloria Arroyo and her elite support-base have done. For genuine dialogue to happen, the ABC classes must first get off their high horse of condecension towards the rest of the Filipino people.
justice in waiting on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:41 am
To assure Independence and Impartiality of any governmental body, two things are necessary, Security of Tenure and a very reasonable remuneration. But that could be only possible if the country can afford and not depriving the rest of the society. But looking at the per Capita Income in the country of equivalent to $1300 and the Gap between the Income of the percentage Few and the Masses is as wide as the Pacific Ocean, then the only possible solution to the rampant corruptions is the very strict enforcement of the law and the collective desire of all to improve the overall economy.
Also the cultures of Superiority that encourage one to amass wealth and power by any means to achieve that superiority complex over the large segment of society other than what the wealth can bring in regards to material and physical enjoyment. and this is still the legacy of the “Colonial Mentality” left by the more than 300 years of Spanish rule..
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:49 am
MLQ3: I have heard a lot of stories about the late President Ramon Magsaysay not only from literature but from relatives as well. He was a simple yet great man. Nowadays, Public Officials find ways and means to include their personal expenses to “official expenses” from the office funds. Sick, right?
I was looking at the Internet on how to compute “relative value of a US Dollar” and I chanced upon one (Measuringworth). It presented Five Ways thru CPI (Consumer Price Index), GDP Deflator, Unskilled Wage, Nominal GDP Per Capita, and Relative Share of GDP.
With your information of USD 15,000, the site came up with these computations:
Initial Year: 1953
Initial Amount: 15,000
Desired Year: 2006
Here are the results
CPI = USD 113,046.73
GDP Deflator = 95,863.49
Unskilled Wage = 165,289.66
Nominal GDP Per Capita = 275, 718.76
Relative Share of GDP = 521,667.11
Converthing these figures into peso. The Value of USD 15,000 in todays terms (IN PESO@46/dollar) would have a low of Php 4,409,720.54 (GDP Deflator) to a high of Php 23,996,687.10. Although these are mere approximations, we can deduce that at that time, the SALARY of Magsaysay was more than decent, even quite a hefty amount vis a vis price of Goods and Services.
It’s hard to come by LEADERS these days that would be comparable to Ramon Magsaysay. Yes there are some but they don’t stay long in Government Office or Politics. Along the way, a lot of mistakes was committed by our Politicians. From a No.2 next to Japan in Economic prowess to a mere “sick man of Asia.”
I still believe the Philippines have great untapped potentials. Only if people start working together rather than bickering at each other. It’s something to HOPE against HOPE. Thanks for that nice Article of yours.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:50 am
Justice in Waiting, you bring up a good observation about inequality which ties into the matter of industrial policy. In Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and other countries which actively pursued home-grown industrialization, it was government policy to allow concentration of wealth on a few business leaders (of Zaibatsus or Chaebols). The reason why this was politically acceptable was because these societies had a greater amount of income equality (because of previous Land Reform). Countries such as the Philippines and Latin America which have highly unequal social structures find it harder to implement such policies which leads to a perpetuation of anemic and uneven growth.
Nevertheless, i think our people have to realize that the best investment we could have is on the official renumeration of our public officials. As Manolo explained in a previous comment above, Laws that go against human nature tend to result in to more corruption. We cannot go the distance with ‘desire’ alone since needs and habits tend to take over.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:00 am
cvj (a) More than all the good intentions for SALARY INCREASE (across the board) is a “metanoia” (Change of Heart) so to speak. Granting this happens, there’s always the possibility that even though Salary is High, people want to have more – the GREEDY side of Human Nature is hard to overcome. Be as it may, it’s a well-intentioned endeavor. The problem on who and how is another matter to take into consideration.
(b) The Public Sphere can take a better role only if and only when the the wide gap in the SOCIAL STRATA would be narrower. The RICH-POOR remains to be a very daunting and Herculean obstacle in making your suggestions “implementable.” Doable, yes but implementable, you need COOPERATION ang lots of it. Not discounting that there’s a possibility in might lead into violence (some people would kill and die for money and possessions, you know).
(c) To around 40%-50% or so of Filipinos, they might understand the concept of a TRUST FUND but I don’t think they could afford one. There are still a lot of Filipinos under “hand-to-mouth” existence. It’s really frustrating at times to talk about good ideas but impeded with near to insurmountable obstacles.
Do you think of some CLASSES in the Social Strata would push for this and some of the classes abhor the idea, there’s a possibility of a Class war, well, Civil War?
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:03 am
Ramrod, i saw your moderated comment (at 7:34 pm) only now. Industrial Policy involves government participation in economic activities with the purpose of preventing market failure that discourages industries from developing. As i told JIW above, a distinctive element is the reliance on home-grown firms (instead of multinationals).
In this scheme, the ideal relationship between government and the private sector is what Dani Rodrik calls ‘embedded autonomy’, i.e. the happy medium between crony capitalism (with Neri’s regulatory capture leading to government failure) and leaving business completely to the private sector (which may lead to market failure and prevent industries from developing resulting in to anemic growth). Here’s an example using Japan’s history from a paper by Morck and Nakamura (posted in a blog entry by economist Dani Rodrik):
I’ll post the links in a separate comment.
baycas on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:09 am
Corporal work of mercy…that’s what I view it…Cory work of mercy.
She’s in blue not in yellow. Just an act of mercy. She’s not one with abalos (re: bribe attempt) much the same way when you visit a convicted felon. Only being a friend. They even viewed some nostalgic pictures.
She didn’t pass judgment on abalos’ wrongdoing. She asked for prayers…the truth will come out.
For all these, I still admire her.
—–
Spot-on!
baycas on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:10 am
…that’s how i view it…
baycas on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:30 am
A likely scenario.
—–
Headings:
Abalos resigns. (Should’ve been mega-pacific ages ago.)
Abalos sings. (That’s more like it…but I doubt it.)
rego on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:40 am
“regarding gov’t broadcast facilities: i joined a committee that was formed by media people upon a (very good) initiative of the government, to create a version of the pbs system in america. it bogged down on questions of regional vs. national programming, and then, eventually, on the demand for autonomy from presidential control but the legal reality that the board would have to be appointed by the president anyway; then the priorities of the government changed.”
—————————————————–
Sayang to. I ve been wondering some time if PBS programming is possible in the Phil…
Kunsabagay andami talagang marami ng mangagandang projects at ideas na lumabas na. At hindi lang naisakatuparan kadalasan dahil sa problemang politikal o corruption. Kahit nga yung NBN talgang napakagandang project sana. O kaya yung Bataan nuclear power plant o kaya yung Cyber Ed…
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:44 am
Karah, i sort of agree with your point (a) above which is why i don’t think a politician’s being a billionaire is necessarily a guarantee against corruption. However, a higher salary also helps eliminate the need for public officials to resort to other income generating activities that may lead to greed once they get the hang of these activities. I accept that there will be those who will choose to be corrupt no matter what their salary is, but in this salary-adjusted situation, they will hopefully be outnumbered by the professionals as is the case in the private sector. In this case, the task of enforcing the law becomes more manageable which sustains the virtuous cycle.
On your point (b), the wide gap between rich and poor is all the more reason for a dialogue between the classes. Dialogue can only be sustained in an atmosphere of mutual respect. That’s why the legitimacy issue needs to be resolved as this involves respecting the right of the majority to choose their leaders. Failing that dialogue, then a dictatorship might become necessary, in which case, the only useful dictatorship would be one that eliminates inequality (i.e. and makes possible ‘Stage 1′), not the kind that perpetuates it.
On your point (c), in my comment above, i was not suggesting a trust fund for all Filipinos, only for high-level government oficials whose salaries have been adjusted (as per my list of suggestions above).
rego on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:03 am
A very enlightening series of posting Karah, you are really good.
As for salary increase, I also dont agree that it will solve much the problem for reason that you already mentioned. Then if you will take a look at the director or other officials of govt own corporations. They are already being paid so high yet they still resort to corruption.
I read it somewhere that corrpution is even more rampant in a high earning bracket of people. Its really more about greed.
I would go for a very strict implementations of laws against corruption. That is why im am very much against granting pardon for Erap at least for now.
As for Manolo’s reference to Magsaysay era. The problem here is that the mindset of Filipinos , especially the the politicians are very different then than now.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:10 am
Ramrod, the links i’m trying to post are being rejected by the moderation software. I’ll post it in my blog tomorrow night instead.
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:37 am
It is called BLIND TRUST. This is banned in UK.
So far, it is only Senator Diane Feinstein who put all her assets in a blind trust to avoid accusation of conflict of interest.Her husband is an investment banker.
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:44 am
The Enron executives were already confortably rich with their salaries,bonuses and other perks and yet, the exec’s wife still charged her shopping expenses to the corporate accounts.
It is not only greed. It is also power and accessibility to the resources.
nash on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:16 am
Si tita cory talaga, selective. When Kris was with Philip she couldn’t forgive her own daughter. But wit Abalos, ok lang….
Madasalin si tita cory but her minimum wager workers at the hacienda are not part of her prayers….
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 6:23 am
Meanwhile, amidst all these corruption scandals, Social Weather Station (SWS) hunger has risen to a record high of 21.5% or about 3.8 million Filipino families experienced involuntary hunger in the past three months.
Abe N. Margallo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:24 am
Si tita cory talaga, selective. When Kris was with Philip she couldn’t forgive her own daughter. But with Abalos, ok lang….
Madasalin si tita cory but her minimum wager workers at the hacienda are not part of her prayers…. – nash
Could it be that the reading from the other Sunday of prophet Amos’ oracle about the conjunction of the religious hypocrisy of the rich and economic exploitation is apropos here?
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:37 am
“Madasalin si tita cory but her minimum wager workers at the hacienda are not part of her prayers…. – nash”
I thought we have a Land Reform Law?
Willy on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:52 am
The 21.5% incidence of hunger is just a symptom of
widespread poverty. The resources and priority given to
a $325M broadband project can rightfully be questioned in the face of 1 out of every 5 families experiencing involuntary hunger. That the hunger incidence is worsening gives us an idea that we are not making any progress at the root of the problems that hits the ordinary folks in the guts.
vic on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:18 am
cvj, one of the reasons why corruptions and influence peddling is so uncommon here, is that politicians as soon as taking office are no longer connected to their personal business. All their business interests are put into the Blind Trust and they can’t be seen or perceived to be in anyway got to do anything with them until out of politics. One good example, a South Asian Minister of Transportation in our Province, was seen visiting the corporate office of his family business and when confronted in the Parliament his excuse is that he was talking to his wife about their daughter’s Education, not good enough, he had to resign his position and now delegated to the back bench. Simply meant when you become a political leader, you stop being a businessperson and the rule is observed to the later. And the Media and the opposition politicians never stop watching. It sells a lot of paper for the media and do some good to the public too…
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:24 am
Vic, thanks. It’s good to know a working model of a blind trust is being implemented somewhere.
Ca T, thanks for supplying the terminology, i did not know what it was called. Why was it banned in the UK?
tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:31 am
karah:
read lots of your stuff and i must say it’s quite good. i repeat to you what manuel told emilie. you should blog.
as per some of the measures you mentioned in your comments, i’ve only one response. it’ll probably not happen. having relatives and friends on both ends of the spectrum, and having lived with them, i can only offer this insight:
the rich need that gap with the poor. because if it wasn’t the rest of us might notice that they’re just people like us. and then they (aquellos) would demand the same access to things the rich think they are exclusively entitled to. so a division is created, with money being the barrier to access.
tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:41 am
argh incorrect pronoun usage… i meant:
the rest of us might notice that they (the rich) are just people, just like all of us. and then we (the rest of the population) would begin to demand the things and privileges the rich believe they are exclusively entitled to. so divisions are created, with an economic basis. because with very few exceptions rich people really just have more money. they still have the same myopic worldview as every other filipino. they, too, can’t see beyond their family, their province, and their interests. they have their pettiness, their prejudices, their
but with the OFW boom, more and more people are beginning to afford the very same things the rich thought only they could have. the economic boundaries are slowly blurring, and the ranks of the “haves” are increasing.
the nouveau riche snap up the external manifestations of wealth: trendy gadgets, cars, and real estate… down the line, they may even venture into getting a golf club share or some other exclusive membership. then they look back at the rest of us, and cringe at the thought that eventually we could be just like them, and that they were never really special to begin with.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:02 am
The OFWs,BPOs, and even SMEs, I believe will increase the size of the middle class narrowing the gap between the rich and the poor. Following these will be the next generation, properly educated, and enlightened, will be more attuned to running the business of the country either as captains of industry or as public servants. They will neither be spoiled by too much “old money” nor hardened to the point of cynicism by “economic difficulty.” I believe if the current generation, meaning us, will not be able to solve all the ills of our society we might as well groom our children for their tasks in the future.
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:28 am
“I thought we have a Land Reform Law?”
Ramrod, as w/most of our other laws, it is just that. On paper. as Manolo said, sometimes we have too many laws trying to prevent corruption that what eventually happens is RED TAPE, which invites more corruption jz to fast track your papers.
TDC, re Miriam tagging along to China: she did say (after her outburst) that her mother (ata) was chinese and that she was half (idiot).
re security of tenure protecting independence of govt bodies, you only have to look at COMELEC (and Abalos) to see how bad security of tenure proved to be.
salary increases are useless as well. Greed cannot be satisfied with MORE. ERAP was already rich before he became president. and yet what happened?
what we need is a national lobotomy. personally I’m in favor of successive generations of brainwashing thru media. overturn all that century of inbred corruption.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:34 am
Gloria Pidal sat on a wall.
Gloria Pidal had a great fall.
All the queen’s horses and all the queen’s men
Couldn’t put Gloria Pidal together again.â€
One by one, they are falling by the wayside (either by divine intervention or by scandals…)in 2007.
1)Claudio(Resigned due to delicate operation)
2)Lolo Gonzales(Kidney transplant)
3)Abalos(ABCZTEFG)
4)Miriam(foot in mouth disease)
5)Neri(cowardice)
There are still 3 months to go in 2007.Abangan!
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:47 am
“Madasalin si tita cory but her minimum wager workers at the hacienda are not part of her prayers….”
Cory has a bored housewife mentality… profoundly hypocritical.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:10 am
The men and women in government are made of the same stuff as you and me, they just have different sets of incentives which cause them to behave differently. If we want to change behavior, we have to modify those incentives. This may include the usual mix of moral exhortations, education and law enforcement. However, in their case, we also have to fix the economic incentives.
In the private sector, corruption and greed is less (although by no means absent) because compensation is higher. We cannot expect ordinary men and women to live day in and day out on nothing but moral exhortations and the threat of being caught. That’s why Communism failed. Since we cannot rely on heroes on a day to day basis, the system must be modified so that it allows competence and integrity to be the norm, not the exception.
I accept that there would be those whether in the business or the private sector whose greed will not be content, but readjusting the incentive structure (from outside income to regular salaries) in government would at least align the incidence and level of greed to that found in the private sector, which to me would be an improvement.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:23 am
karah, many thanks, that is, indeed, very similar to, if not the actual process, we undertook to understand past government salaries in today’s terms. the point is you would not even have had to be a fanatic about honesty on the level of magsaysay; the past figures explain how an entire middle class of civil servants arose in the 20s to the 60s, and how they could live lives with dignity and security.
since you’re far better at numbers than i am, you can do a further experiment, and look at the salaries listed here and their respective periods,
http://www.quezon.ph/?page_id=1035
and see what their equivalents would be, in today’s money.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:37 am
rego, marami talagang sayang na project. at maraming bagay na ok naman na nagkakalecheleche dahil may mga gustong makisawsaw.
take the whole brouhaha over zte. china investments, in particular. at yung anggulo na nakikialam ang mga kano.
maraming oda na hindi nagagamit ng pamahalaan dahil a) walang counterpart funds (meaning, economic mismanagement at home) or b) di nakukuha dahil pahigpit ng pahigpit ang mga patakaran ng mga western donors, etc. attractive ang chinese assistance kasi wala silang transparency ek ek requirements.
but objectively, any philippine government should welcome foreign investments and any foreign investor would like to invest, basta malinaw ang mga patakaran at mamiminimize ang monkey business.
for example, kung ininsist natin na sige, investo kayong mga tsino, basta ganito lang ito ha, may bidding, transparent ang deals, etc., walang magagawa ang mga kano except to compete. nagalit ang mga kano dahil sabi nila na unfair daw yung ginawang estilo ng pagwin ng deal. ang ibig sabihin nito, napahiya tayo sa mga tsino at sa mga kano, dahil meron ngang nakisawsaw, pero ang galit ng tsino ay nagsimula sa pagbubuking ng deal, at ang mga kano, sa pangungurakot sa deal.
moral of the story: there was lots of money for private firms, lots of benefits for the government, potential benefits for the people, if government did less monkeying around and just did deals the right way.
sa kritisimo mo naman sa oposisyon, ang katakataka dito ay, sumingaw ang baho hindi dahil sa oposisyon, kundi dahil sa pakikipagaway-away ng mga kampo sa loob ng administrasyon.
ganun naman talaga nasisiraan ang mga administrasyon: dahil sa kaguluhan na dulot ng mga kampo nila. ang oposisyon naman, ay siyang guwarantiya na pag may lumitaw na anomalysa, iimebstigahin ito (sa mabuti o masamang paraan, nasa mga miyembro ng oposisyon na iyan, at sa mamamayan na may interes o pasensyang bantayan ang proseso). pero mas mainam ang magulong sistema na ito kesa sa mag bulag-bulagan na lang ang lahat.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:42 am
mlq3:What does Ronnie Puno really bring to the table? Ronnie Puno has been connected with Marcos/Eamos/Erap/GMA administrations?
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:51 am
re brian on cory: cory lost a chance to be even greater in history by forcing her family to lead by example and simply relinquish hacienda luisita. that being said, i tend to be irked by all the focus on luisita because much as some dislike their scheme (technically giving shares of stock instead of actual land) this was still a solution light-years ahead those that other landed families refused to even consider. and that in general, there were, until recently, far better relations and benefits on that estate than in countless other estates where real, brutal, peonage existed before 1987 and continues to this day. yet all the focus is on luisita and not, say, on the arroyo haciendas and the agitation in negros to simply scrap the carp.
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:52 am
“moral of the story: there was lots of money for private firms, lots of benefits for the government, potential benefits for the people, if government did less monkeying around and just did deals the right way.”
When I was young I get punished for actions that result in damage or loss for my family, even though the act itself in not morally or ethically reprehensible… hindi mali. Tapos itong manga taong ito, napa damaging nang mga immoral na ginagawa walang punishment.
It’s not just moral double standard; it’s moral cowardice. Kung hindi pa mamula at mangitim ang mga mata hindi pa ata lalaban mga pilipino. This is cowardice. A brave people does not wait for “sobra” to react. They see a crime, they immediately plan the best way to punish a criminal.
What’s worse with moral cowards is that the little guy get the brunt of their frustrations. Parang ano to, tatay na lasingero. Walang maiuwi na pag kain so mangbubugbog na lang nang asawa at anak.
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:55 am
Manolo,
Luisita has been decided by the Supreme court. May contract tatay no Cory. Yun yun. Yung mga taga Negros, iba doon hindi nga land-grab eh, either they bought it from the natives or they married a native to get land. If you’ve been to bacolod maraming mga maliliit na mestizo di ba? At least, that’s what old people used to say about Negros.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:56 am
“re brian on cory: cory lost a chance to be even greater in history by forcing her family to lead by example and simply relinquish hacienda luisita.mlq3″
How true!Cory was tested there and found wanting! Sayang.
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:58 am
At hindi pera nang cojuangco ang bumili sa luisita, if my understanding is correct. The government was naive, and yes full of elitist hubris, to allow the Cojuangco patriach to “manage” the land at the expense of tax payers money. Isn’t that how Luisita came to Cojuangco land. Did cojuangco pay back the Central Bank.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:58 am
tdc: i would hazard to guess, a willingness to serve whoever the master du jour is, ably and well.
and considering the allegations of his operational skills, there’s a simple rule: if you were apresident, wouldn’t you rather have him on your side, than on the other side?
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:03 pm
I think experts have said the incorporation was not beneficial to the farmers and some UP law professors have said it is unconstitutional.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:03 pm
mlq3:ang galing mo magexplain. thanks!
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:04 pm
brian, my understanding was luisita was a tabacalera hacienda, and was bought by the cojuangcos from them.
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:09 pm
google it for more reference.
http://www.bulatlat.com/news/4-42/4-42-tenants.html
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:16 pm
Manolo I gave you a link but you can easily google the topic
keywords: cojuangco luisita central bank
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:22 pm
If Jarius Bondoc places God first, country second and family 3rd. I think Cory places God first then family then country.
These hacienda heirs, I believe, have been brainwashed by their elders to love their land and protect it at all cost. It’s understandable, especially since they get their pride and identity as landowners from them. It’s like what that lady said: to take away her hacienda from her is to take away every piece of her clothing. That’s why I recommend that we go strong if we want true land reform. These are the same people who invented Philippine Federalism. Yes, it was the hacienderos who brought the idea to the Philippines back in Cory’s time. They want Federalism to avoid CARP.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:34 pm
I believe we don’t have to look far for a solution, implement the law – enforce Land reform to the letter. If its in the spirit of the law it will not look like a communist takeover as these landed class will cry “fowl!” What has made it impossible for us to enforce our laws, the constitution, etc.?
Come to think of it, there are resources that either we already have or can have access to inorder to transform the country, we just don’t have the set of leaders who we can fully trust to “make it happen.”
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:37 pm
mlq3: from your vantage point,which is a more serious crisis for GMA,”Hello Garci” or “ABCZTEFG”?
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:41 pm
Ramrod Dispense me I wasn’t able to reply to this comment of yours yestedday. I scrolled today and it’s only today I saw this comment.
To a certain extent, you could say that I’m a “coffee person.” I drink Starbucks in the weekend but I do drink coffee at home every night as well. I’m sure you know that Coffee is the number one source of antioxidants .
I just speak my mind and stand my ground. A healthy exchange of ideas, opinions, and concepts is one of the mental calisthenics that broadens our horizons and opens our mind to certain stereotypes and that.
Talking about the “Singapore Model.” I concur that the “singapore phenomena” is something doable and implementable in any setting, given the right circumstances, the right attitude of people most importantly, and the right set of leaders to lead this. It would be a daunting task since there are some obstacles. Here are some that I can think of.
GEOGRAPHICAL HINDRANCE: In terms of land area, the Singapore is only 0.22% if we compare it to the land area of RP. A smaller geographical situation would spell a lot in enforcing laws and monitoring the movement of people and goods. Our is an Archipelago whilst Singapore is one small island.
POPULATION HINDRANCE: Less people means more control and more people means less control. Singapore is a land of fines. One wrong move and you pay the fine – this is what makes them toe the line. Singapore has a population of only 4.5M (2007) +/- whilst the Philippines has a popualation of a whooping 91M (2007) +/-. Monitoring 4.5M people is a feat in itself but monitoring 91M warm bodies is wow, a godlike task.
CULTURAL DIVERSITY: Though cultural diversity has its own pros and cons, let us use this with reference Singapore and the Philippines. The biggest Ethnic Group are the TAGALOGS (approx 28.1%), the next are the CEBUANOS (approx 13.1%). Though they are all Filipinos, their ethno-cultural background might have some differences. One task is to make all these ethnic groups agree on something. Singapore is 76.8% Chinese. I’m sure you understand where I’m getting at.
Can the SINGAPORE MODEL be replicated in the Philippines, yes it can. I hope I’m still alive if that happens – a singapore-like Philippines. Now, there’s another school of thought that would refute this. Why? They would assert why we need to copy the Singaporeans if we can make our own model. The question I’d like to ask these people would be: What’s your model all about?
You must be referring to the CARP (Comprehensive Agrarian Reform Program) or RA 6657. This is one LAW that chooses who should be covered by it. It’s an IRONY that this Law was signed at the time when Corazon Aquino became President and yet their family owned Hacienda Luisita was never under CARP during her entire term. Why? Only Cory knows the answer to that
No good example was set that’s why it’s a GOOD yet a USELESS Law. It favors the Landlords over the very Recipients of the Law. It all boils down to the MONEY GAME. People have shed tears, blood, and even lives for this LAW but to no avail.
Diego Torres on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:48 pm
Our leaders have failed us. Could be a very serious character flaw of Filipinos or we have just been unlucky so far with the first set of leaders . Maybe after the unelected one who took the LIGHT: Loot, Integrity, Good Governance, Honesty and Trustworthiness, we will be more discerning.
I hope the senate passes a law that mandates everyone seeking public office to undergo a neuro-psychiatric test. Signs of psychosis is bigotry, trigger happy mood swings and urges to jump from a plane…I wonder if this comment will merit a grand conspiracy label from lunatics…
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 12:51 pm
cvj (a) It’s the ATTITUDE. A higher salary in the Rank and File, the Middle and Senior Executives of the Government might lessen corruption. There are people who are DOWNRIGHT CORRUPT and there are some people who are forced to be CORRUPT due to circumstances. The downside of this suggestion is that there would always be room for GREED and WANTING MORE. But then again, why not try it and see what happens. Yes, a more SENSIBLE Compensation Package might entice and encourage people from the Private Sector to try Government Service.
(b) Another way of looking at this is not the SOLE “narrowing” of the GAP between the RICH and POOR but by “strengthening the MIDDLE CLASS” to balance the Economic Spectrum. In most First World Countries, a solid, stable, and strong Middle Class is what sustains their Economy. We cannot remove the fact that there would always be people who want to PULL A FAST ONE on other people. To take advantage of people who shall we say have less UNDERSTANDING that being citizens should DEMAND what they deserve in terms of how they are treated and how they sustain their STANDARD OF LIVING.
(c) Maybe we should start educating the Upper Middle Classes and Class A re: TRUST FUNDS. In my own knowledge, there might be only less than 2% of Filipinos that avail of TRUST FUNDS for their Children, for their Family, for their Assets, and the like. You familiar with this INDUSTRY?
Geo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:03 pm
karah — great stuff. I agree with most of what you have written. Pls keep it up.
On the “Singapore Model” topic, I think many Pinoys have an uncritical perception of that city-state. This blog, and much of what mlq3 writes, would not be allowed. Ricky Carandang would be in jail. Those who repeatedly call for more transparency in the government’s doings would be muffled.
In Singapore there is little, if any, room for the free (yet often free-wheeling and irresponsible) media which we enjoy here. I get frustrated by the local media here sometimes, but I’m not so sure I’d like to see the Philippines become a Singapore.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:03 pm
“Our leaders have failed us. Could be a very serious character flaw of Filipinos or we have just been unlucky so far with the first set of leaders . Maybe after the unelected one who took the LIGHT: Loot, Integrity, Good Governance, Honesty and Trustworthiness, we will be more discerning.diego torres”
I don’t know if we will ever produce a towering figure like Nelson Mandela.
We are have a myopic”Family First” orientation.No strong sense of nationhood.Patriotism is a dead horse here.
So Cory thinks of the Cojuancos’Hacienda Luisita interest first.
so Ramos thinks of his family first(and his”Second Lady”).
So Erap thinks of his “families” first.
So Gloria thinks of the Pidal family business first(jueteng)
sad.
sad.
sad.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:08 pm
Rego It’s good that you’ve raised the issue on how Executives in GOCC’s and GFI’s are insanely compensated. Now, before we go into how much these CEO’s really earn, we have to benchmark. Here are some criteria that I have come up with:
(a) How much does this particular GOCC or GFI contribute to the National Treasury on a yearly basis?
(b) Given the present Industry Benchmarks, are GOCC and GFI CEO’s on par in terms of Salary vis a vis Industry standards in the Private Sector?
(c) More than the Salary itself, what are the PERKS because I have heard that some CEO’s of GOCC’s and GFI’s have bigger perks than wages.
(d) Make an inventory of all GOCC’s and GFI’s and show to the public their books (Annual Reports). This is to determine which are BLEEDING DRY and which are EARNING BIG BUCKS. Which of these are still RELEVANT and which of these needs to be SCRAPPED by way of Legislation.
I am particularly targeting the GSIS because I have heard from some Pensioners that their Bonuses are being delayed for no reason. It’s also very frustrating for would be Retirees to process their papers in GSIS or SSS because the following agencies employ a lot of red tape (at least the examiners and those in the frontline). We all know the different anomalies that shrouded these 2 cash-rich agencies then and now.
Going thru the motions of History, people change on their outlook, their mindsets, their paradigm on things. I once told that a Government Employee from the 1900’s up until 1950’s and 1960’s was highly respected. Now, I dunno what happened along the way. Whether a Gov’t Official nowadays is corrupt or not, there’s that STIGMA especially to people who lack understanding of things and assimilate what they hear HOOKLINE and SINKER.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:09 pm
Thank you Tonio. I would rather comment on Blogs rather than maintain my own. Maintaining a blog is not that easy, you know.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:09 pm
Karah, thanks for (a), i agree. As for (b), i also agree that narrowing the gap between the rich and poor precisely involves moving the poor into the middle class. Can you clarify what you mean by your last sentence in (b)? As for (c) (i.e. trust funds), i think Ca T above knows more about this.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:10 pm
Karah,
Yes. (c)Trust Funds. I invested in educational funds earlier, trust funds I heard about these but I don’t have any idea, probably later on. I way I see it is that at the moment this is the best I can do, ensure the education of my children to prepare them and hopefully when its their time – they won’t be heavily taxed just to pay for the debts our leaders incurred which we were not able to stop during our time. Why do we have to make it part of their inheritance?
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:20 pm
Tonio Another interpretation in the “narrowing the gap” between the RICH and POOR as what I’ve said in my other comment could also mean, the STRENGTHENING of the MIDDLE CLASS to balance all of these. Even in a Communist State, there’s no such thing as EQUALITY. There might be such a thing as “maximum equitability” but these are mere theories.
There would always be the RICH and there would always be the POOR. I’d like to see a Philippines wherein everybody is given the opporunity to uplift his economic standing. This is notwithstanding the fact that some of the RICH take advantage either of the INNOCENCE or even IGNORACE of the poor. Just look at how kids are being made to work in Sugar Plantations (Haciendas) under harsh working conditions and very low salary. This is even CHILD ABUSE and yet nobody seems to do something. The RICH are getting RICHER at the expense of the POOR and the POOR are getting poor without even a chance of having a decent life.
Shaman of Malilipot on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:21 pm
“I would go for a very strict implementations of laws against corruption. That is why im am very much against granting pardon for Erap at least for now.” – rego
I agree completely, Rego. And not only laws against corruption, but all laws down to traffic rules.
Geo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:22 pm
The “strengthening of the middle class” may well indeed be the magic solution. But how can it be strengthened?
Considering the socio-eco-politico dominance of a few dozen families, how will various small entities amass enough say-so? Peacefully?
Open the doors to much more foreign competition and investment, I propose. The increasing number of returnees of long-term OFWs and “overseas” Pinoys (dual-nationalities) is but a first step. But a good one.
In my opinion, this country needs a good dose of new blood, full of capability and experience, backed by independent money and in numbers that can have an impact in a country of 80 million people. I don’t know if this can be done by in-country players alone.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:33 pm
Geo, just to mirror what you said, i agree that bringing in MNC’s strengthens the business ecosystem. For every IBM, HP or Microsoft that comes in, a dozen or more Resellers and dealers are set-up around it.
However, economic takeoff also requires home grown companies that engage in manufacture of sophisticated products. I wish our business tycoons would focus their efforts on delivering on this area instead of conspiring with their government counterparts on fleecing the Filipino taxpayer.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:42 pm
Geo,
The Philippines following the Singapore model is on face value “unimaginable” but it really depends on what our concept of “ideal” is? Honestly my closest friends right now are Singaporeans, too close that one of them wants to “save” me by studying the bible with me everytime he gets the chance, and this is one of my bosses – so no escape! It is possible if we can mature into a people, a government of laws. They’re just ordinary people, although at times you want to strangle one of them because sometimes this air of superiority unconsciously surfaces in moments of stress (and I’m talking about the secretary). What I like about this model is that as a people we are through the government given the power to determine our destiny (as set goals) with clear objectives and clear parameters on how to meassure our successes. We are assured of the “predictability” of our leaders, so in effect we are secure. Of course, if we are used to the American form of democracy we will never appreciate this, but are the americans really secure, are they happy? As a personal opinion, yes I’d want to see a Philippines molded in the Singapore model though in a larger scale. Perhaps not all at once, but bit by bit, reform by reform – where’s all these reforms Gringo Honasan was talking about that made him the “idol” of my youth? I look at the Singapore model as an “ideal” and as one wise man once said “ideals are like the stars, we can’t reach them but we chart our course by them.”
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:47 pm
Why is it I can’t find my post in here? I posted something and it did not appear in the Blogs.
Geo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:47 pm
cvj,
Good to “chat” with you again.
It doesn’t have to just be MNCs. Small foreign companies and individual investors can create a lot of business opportunities. More importantly, they can challenge the long-dominant players and arrangements.
“Creative destruction” is what I’m thinking will work.
On the political front, and I recall that you disagree with me, this is the same reasoning/argument I used in support of Cha-Cha. Peaceful, legal changes are needed, starting with the need to loosen the grip a few have on the whole country.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:51 pm
re: geo’s comment, i wonder if a more effective means for infusing new blood would simply be a single term limit for all elected officials, period, with a corresponding ban on all relatives ever entering public office, ever (the debate will be on the level of consaguinity and whether perpetual ban or 25, 50, 100 years, etc.)
the idea is, we should encourage people to take a sabbatical from their normal work, devote some years to government service, then return to private life and a means to go back to a career. eventually you will exhaust the existing political families (you cannot pass a retroactive law), and then it’s everyone else’s turn within a term.
i think i discussed this a few years back in this blog. you avoid the hysterical cries of those who don’t want to lose face, one big reason you can’t get an anti-dynasty law passed.
ramoncito on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:56 pm
Nono Ibazeta was President and COO, under Andy Soriano, of A. Soriano Corp. (Anscor). Until their recent divestment, Anscor was a major shareholder of ICTSI, Razon’s company.
Geo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:57 pm
mlq3,
Great idea! I didn’t understand your last sentence, tho.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 1:57 pm
MLQ3: Can’t seem to post my comment re: Relative Value of Dollar and Peso with reference to the Salary of your Grandfather.
tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:06 pm
perhaps it had a link….
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:09 pm
hmmmm…its missing and it had a link?
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:11 pm
karah. i dunno, checked the held in moderation panel, nothing there!
arbet. my comment? noted.
geo: sometimes people oppose things because intangibles (neither money, nor position, etc.) are involved, but rather, the question of saving face.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:20 pm
Tonio It didn’t have a link but it contained a lot of numbers. I gave a detaile computation on all the Salaries of MLQ based the link that MLQ3 gave me. I don’t know what happened there.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:24 pm
It’s quite a lengthy comment. I got tired typing all the numbers and even checked and double-checked the figures. I even finished two mugs of coffee.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:25 pm
karah, i have no clue. hopefully next time please take the precaution of copying just in case something like this happens again.
tonio on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:26 pm
mlq3:
here’s an interesting bit about everyone getting their turn in government. apparently in Echiverri’s Caloocan, senior citizens are getting their turn to serve as city councillors and heads of departments for a week.
karah:
i decided to take the plunge a few minutes ago and set up a blog. let’s see where that goes.
the middle class will be mostly composed of BPO “zombies” who, while in the same country, live 8-12 time zones away from us. perhaps government should adjust to address the needs of our nocturnal population… i’d like to see the upcoming barangay elections run from 5am to 5am the next day.
tdc, brian:
i doubt there are many “true Filipinos”. as has been said by many people on this blog. the people who live here tend to think in this order: i am (surname), my family is from (province), i live in (neighbourhood), i went to (school), i am a Filipino.
that’s only a small sample. because in between those little spaces there’s also one’s clan, sports team, school org, frat, bible study group, etc., etc. there are so many things people come up with to set themselves apart from each other… and for people in governmet, it reflects in the way they behave.
show me someone who truly believes in the statement “Ako’y Pilipino”. I’d like to meet this person.
because heck, i’ll admit it. i’m not much of a Filipino myself. i’m breaking trying to break my conceptual boundaries, but i can’t say i can identify with the entire country as a whole just yet.
Geo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:26 pm
mlq3 — The part I don’t understand is WHY anyone’s face would make them oppose/not oppose the passing of the Anti-Dynasty enabling laws…especially if the law was as you decribed/proposed?
ramrod — To each his own, but it sounds to me that you might like an autocracy where the people are cogs in a state-controlled wheel. Isn’t this a little like the “Mussolini/Marcos made the trains run on time” reasoning?
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:27 pm
Geo, yeah i agree with you on the small foreign companies. It does not have to be the big MNCs. As for Cha-cha, its goal had nothing to do with what we’re talking about. Its main objective was elitist, i.e. to take away the right of the people to directly vote for their leaders which i don’t believe is a step in the right direction. Contrary to your ideal of creative destruction, that would be more like destructive destruction.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:30 pm
MLQ3: I made my comment in Word actually so I can repost the said comment anytime. I was thinking it might be a “@” sign but I tried removing this and see if my comments comes through.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:35 pm
tonio, because it would be an admission of complicity in the screwed-up situation the country’s in, and human nature is such that we always think it’s someone else’s fault.
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:36 pm
karah, whew. please try again. you could then take a look at this,
http://www.quezon.ph/?page_id=1026
and try some historical forensic accounting.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:38 pm
Karah, same thing happened to me last night. i think Manolo’s moderation software has some quirks depending on word combinations which is hard to figure out. Why don’t you set-up a blog as a placeholder for posting your comment and then link back to it?
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:49 pm
cvj It might be the software and some character-recognition flaws. I was thinking it might be that some characters like @ would be blocked but I was able to post some numbers with that character. I have no idea myself. If I don’t get lazy, I’ll look into having my own Blog.
Geo on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:55 pm
cvj — That was “their” Cha-Cha, not mine. Perhaps you can have your own Cha-Cha, too. The point is: Many ideas and versions are welcome for debate, but the key would be to significantly change the rules of the game.
The old game — with all the old players and old tricks — is too well-known and corrupted. Staying within the boundaries of representative democracy, major changes could still occur. I like mlq3’s idea (above), for example.
This can be done in the vein of peaceful, legal, “creative destruction”, I believe.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 2:56 pm
“To each his own, but it sounds to me that you might like an autocracy where the people are cogs in a state-controlled wheel. Isn’t this a little like the “Mussolini/Marcos made the trains run on time†reasoning?”
A state guided-wheel is more like it. I really believe that if there is organization, objectives, timetables, accountability, evaluation, and continous improvement there is order and where there is order – you get more things done, when you get more things done, you are more productive, and when you are more productive you are wealthier (hopefully healthier also) and can afford to have quality time with loved ones. Of course, strict adherence to the rules – even traffic rules, all of us are capable of not going through a red light even if there’s no one watching. Your allusion to Marcos/Mussolini scares me – thats a worst case scenario.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:03 pm
No matter how you change the game, if the players are the same, you would have the same outcome – cheating, cutting corners, bullying, and grandstanding. The system is rotten not because it got rotten by itself but it got infected by ROTTEN PEOPLE.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:13 pm
Ram People would always have their own opinion of things on how to run an organization, even a country. Some leans toward DISCIPLINE. Some leans toward RESULT-ORIENTED ENDEAVORS. Some leans toward MEDIOCRITY.
Let me get back to the SINGAPORE EXPERIENCE. Yes, Singapore is prosperous, it is rich, it has a low crime rate, it has an excellent Governmet but they had to pay some prices to attain this “modicum of utopia living” so to speak. They had to give-up certain freedoms.
I’d like to delve into European Government Systems though I am not that well versed in this arena. Why is that their Governments work. They are prosperous, they are rich, low-crime rate, and citizens are happy. Is it because they have attained a certain degree of POLITICAL MATURITY and all sorts of MATURITY for that matter?
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:13 pm
karah,
Just just it, we have to believe that there is a possibility of change. Its a fact the “hardship” has a changing effect on men, we can wait it out until these corrupt officials bancrupt us or plunge us into inflation, until we hit rock bottom so there’s no other direction but up. Or probably, in our own sphere of influences effect changes little by little or fast depending on the severity.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:22 pm
Ram I remember two quotes reding about your first two sentences. Here are the quotes that came to my mind:
“Nothing endures but change.” (Heraclitus)
“What does not kille me, makes me stronger.” (Friedrich Nietzsche)
Let get back to basics. Real “social transformation” starts from the individual – from each and everyone of us. The individual influences the family (the most basic social institution). The family influences the community. The communities influences the society-at-large. Much like a bottom-top model for instituting change.
Radical changes do happen but at great costs – a CIVIL WAR? The French Revolution did produce greatness to France. Even the American Civil War made them say: “Let’s stop fighting and build a nation.” I dunno if this is applicable to Philippines where people are fond of HIT and RUN rather than facing things HEAD ON.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:26 pm
Karah,
The Singapore model is far from Utopia, its probably the physical manifestation of the “Leviathan” or the “necessary evil” or the “state.” Its far from perfect and yes some things have to be sacrificed but We must ask ourselves this question “In order to achieve security, financially or psychologically, even emotionally, what are we willing to give up? We have to pay for these some way or the other?
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 3:35 pm
If i knew that at the time, maybe i would have kept a more open mind.
Too bad you were not around during the height of the Charter Change debates in November & December.
I cannot argue against a state guided-wheel because that is a prerequisite for my advocacy of implementing an industrial policy. However, in addition to State-guidance, i think an arrangement where the State Sector has a lively interaction with the Public Sphere is needed. As i mentioned before, one of the unfortunate unintended consequences of EDSA Dos was that Civil Society and the State became fused together. Aside from co-opting and oftentimes corrupting the civil society activists, it also deprived the public sphere of its lifeblood. That’s why i’m of two minds endorsing Manolo, Leah, Ricky and the others to run for public office.
As to what i would be willing to ‘give up’ to the State, certainly not my freedoms and my rights, though others have been known to make that bargain (‘just to move the country forward’) and some have already begun regretting it.
BrianB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:15 pm
“Its far from perfect and yes some things have to be sacrificed but We must ask ourselves this question “In order to achieve security, financially or psychologically, even emotionally, what are we willing to give up? We have to pay for these some way or the other?”
Ramrod, sorry to disappoint you but democracy wasn’t our idea; it was the Americans’. Even today many of our people do not appreciate democracy. It would be better if we translate the big lump of a word that is “democracy” to its working parts: right to live, right to have a living, right to own property, free speech, etc… i.e. Bill of Rights. Democracy as defined being the rule of the people cannot be more alien to Filipinos. Better if we think of it as the right of every Filipino to be respected by the law equally.
With that said, talking about alternative forms of governments is futile, and, worse, an elite-only discussion.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:15 pm
CVJ: (a) Ok (b) Precisely, the next questions would be how. Better employment, better compensation, better government services, better standard of living.
What I meant with that is that the COMMON PEOPLE don’t seem to DEMAND what they deserve in terms of Government Services, in terms of Salaries and Wages. Let me give you an example, there are a lot of Factory Workers who are in HARSH WORKING CONDITIONS. For most of them, they accept what’s given to them but they should DEMAND from their Employers better working conditions not because they want it but because it’s what is prescribed by Law as well. There are some employers who take advantage of some employees.
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:17 pm
May be they thought that it is not effective as it is thought to be.
Diane Feinstein’s husband is still accused of getting government contracts.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:29 pm
Ram It might not be “utopia” for you but it might be “utopia” for some people (mainly the Singaporeans). Around a year ago, I was able to talk with some Malaysian and Singaporean businesspeople. We talked a lot of things. What caught my attention was the Pension/Retirement System in Singapore. Once Singaporeans RETIRE, they RETIRE as multi-millionaires from what they can get as lump sum and benefits. In Malaysia, they say the Government are the ones running after those people who don’t claim their Pension/Retirement Benefits. Now, this might seem insignificant to those who already have their own “private retirement fund” but for common people, this is EVERYTHING THEY HAVE WORKED FOR and it bore fruits, and lots of them.
Now, in the Philippines, it is the very CONTRIBUTOR-MEMBERS that needs to follow-up even give grease money to SSS and GSIS personnel just for their pension/bonus to be released. After working all your life, during your retirement you still SUFFER? My heart goes to all the Private Workers and Government Workers who should be at least enjoying their pension but their pension/retirement has become a NIGHTMARE for them.
Yeah, we can talk about psycho-emotional satisfaction, about financial-economical satisfaction but let us be reminded that for most people (in the Philippines), their main goal is to have a good retirement, plain and simple. They don’t want any complications and ramifications on life.
Good question: What are we willing to give up for a better life like that of the Singaporeans and Malaysians (just an example)?
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:45 pm
MLQ3: I’ll attempt to post my comment again (the one that the Blog didn’t accept) so that I’ll know my next move. Your software got a vertigo with my numbers.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:47 pm
MLQ3: You are most welcome. Although people’s salaries then were proportionate to live a DECENT and DIGNIFIED lifestyle, sure there were also situations wherein “temptations” to steal arose. Or maybe people back then were much simpler than people like now. Back then, there were no CELLPHONES that needs to be procured every 3 months to have the lates. Way back then people were more contented with life (since it wasn’t yet a society of CONSUMERISM and COMMERCIALISM), unlike now. These are some considerations to look into as well – the Environment.
With reference to the SALARIES that your Grandfather had, here are today’s equivalent:
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:51 pm
Didn’t the Malolos Constitution precede the Americans? Reading it gave me the impression that it was democratic in character.
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:53 pm
Afraid of the backlash may be. The execs of ToysRUS made a public apology to the Chinese government about the toy recalls.
There are many Filipino-owned businesses in China, like the hotel where she was billeted–owned by Lucio Tan and the famous Jolibee.
I call it damage control.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 4:55 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:12 pm
The Ca t What we have to look into first is if this trip has been planned long before or an “impulse trip.” If the former is true then we can deduce it’s coincidence but if the latter is true then it’s might be an “evasive tactic” being employed by the “spin doctors” of Malacanang.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:20 pm
The Ca t There are some Filipino companies that are investing in China – of course, Lucio Tan. The Gokongwei’s I think gets a lot of money from C2 in China. Danding Cojuangco wants a foothold on the Chinese Market as well. GMA would ride in a plane and stay in a place both owned by Lucio Tan? Hmmm… Is this a joint-venture between Lucio Tan and Tony Tan Caktiong? I mean, the hotel you’re referring to.
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:21 pm
Educational funds are some forms of trust funds. Trust funds are set up mostly for
a. avoidance of estate taxes,
b. provide for minor children or family members who lack financial experience or who are unable to manage their assets
c. To provide for management of your assets should you become unable to oversee them yourself.
The SOCIAL SECURITY and GSIS membership contributions are
PUBLIC TRUST FUNDS entrusted to these government agencies for investment so that in the future they will be getting
them in lump sum or in pension forms.
So where did these funds go.
During the time of Erap, more than a hundred million were invested in the Belle Corp.
During the time of Marcos, it was alleged to have been used by cronies for their capital sourcing.
I do not know about the other presidents.
As I have commented before, it is not only the low salaries that make the officials corrupt. It is the power to use these vast resources for their own enrichment.
Parang ilagay mo ang tao sa isang kuwarto na maraming perang hindi sa kaniya pero siya may hawak, hindi kaya siya mademonyo para hindi galawin yon?
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:23 pm
Philippine Air Lines is now wholly-owned by Lucio Tan after he bought the PNB shares?
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:25 pm
“No matter how you change the game, if the players are the same, you would have the same outcome – cheating, cutting corners, bullying, and grandstanding. The system is rotten not because it got rotten by itself but it got infected by ROTTEN PEOPLE.”
Karah, you echo most of my sentiments I’ve made in past posts. Even questioning the viability of civil war. Even your gripes abt SSS and GSIS.
In fact, the main reason why I want to go abroad is bec of the unreliability of pension funds and insurances here, both government and private. My wife has applied for her maternity benefit yet till now, 3 mos after giving birth, we have yet to hear from SSS. My father bought my sisters educational insurances, yet this private insurance company was never able to pay for my sister’s education fully. PAG IBIG is downright corrupt as well. We had a housing loan and we were asked to pay more than what was computed for us originally. When we challenged this, all we got was a refund for a small amount when the overpayment was hundreds of thousands. My mother in law depends only on her husband’s GSIS pension for their monthly budget, but that gets delayed 3 mos or maybe more. The worse delays came last elections, wherein I suppose all those money was diverted into election funds. Here in Naga, CASURECO (local electric utility) is embroiled in a corruption scandal wherein they overcharged all subcribers by big amounts. In fact, our electric bill reached as high as 6k when all we had are the usual appliances plus my PC. you would be even aghast that private companies are also scampering to join in the corruption. Cable and internet utilities here all want in on the action.
Bottomline, I don’t feel secure living here. Anytime, your house could be raided by police in a hulidap operation. There’s not a trustworthy insurance company in sight. The industry can’t regulate itself. And I don’t have anything to look forward to when I retire. Only more work as pensions are stolen by those whom you entrust it to. The only consolation I have is that by my counts, we’ve hit rock bottom and there’s nowhere to go but up.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:26 pm
MLQ3
Rate: 1 USD = 2 PESOS (1903-1944)
The reference for all computations are based on CPI (Consumer Price Index) Method
Fiscal (Mindoro) 1903: Php 2,800/year (1,400USD) = USD 33,087.92 or Php 1,488,904.29 (2006)
Fiscal (Tayabas) 1094: Php 3,000/year (1,500USD) = USD 35,040.56 or Php 1,576,770.01 (2006)
Provincial Governor (Tayabas) 1906: Php 4,000/year (2,000USD) = USD 46,238.52 or Php 2,080,661.03 (2006)
President, Philippine Senate 1925: Php 12,000/year (6,000USD) = USD 69,001.71 or Php 3,104,968.28
President, Philippine Senate 1926: Php 16,000/year (8,000USD) = USD 91,118.64 or Php 4,100,195.29 (2006)
President, Philippine Senate 1928: Php 16,000/year (8,000USD) = USD 94,150.61 or Php 4,236,629.17 (2006)
President, Philippine Senate 1933: Php 12,000/year (6,000USD) = USD 93,333.33 or Php 4,199,852.86 (2006)
President, Philippine Senate 1934: Php 12,000/year (6,000USD) = USD 90,336.07 or Php 4,064,980.88 (2006)
President of the Philippines 1944: Php 30,000/year (15,000USD) = USD 171,818.18 or Php 7,731,547.50 (2006)
By the looks of it, the Salary of your Grandfather if given today (with reference to the RELATIVE AMOUNT with the dollar then and now) to the Goverment Positions of Granddad occupied, would really be quite HIGH and very much a salary that’s only given to CEO’s of Big Philippine Corporations, GOCC’s and GIF’s, and Executives in Multinational Companies.
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:28 pm
sabi ng tatay ko: kaya daw korap ang mga tao sa gobyerno ay dahil di nila pinaghirapan ang perang nilulustay nila. maghanap ka ng ordinaryong empleyado at makikita mo kung gano ka metikuloso ito sa gastusan nya.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:29 pm
MLQ3 Finally, my comment came through. I’ll read the other link you gave me and would also try to do the “relative equivalent” thing.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:35 pm
The Ca t I know that Lucio Tan has majority stake in PAL. What I was inferring about is that idea that why would GMA be riding a plane (owned by Tan) and staying in a hotel (again owned by Tan). Are there concessions that Tan is asking or mere “goodwill?”
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 5:54 pm
DevilsAdvc8 To be fair to some local Private Companies, there are some Insurance companies that we can consider as “reliable” and they can deliver. I am not advertising any company but from what I’ve heard, PHILAMLIFE is one of them.
Talking about SSS and GSIS, much is left to be desired in these two Agencies. I even find it funny that employeees in these agencies act arrogantly towards the very people that pay for their salaries & wages – the Member-Contributors. Now, GSIS has this so-called e-GSIS card. This is good for those who are abroad, those living in the cities. How about living in far flung areas where there are no ATM machines yet? Some of these people are really old and can’t travel long distances.
What they should have done was to let the Member-Contributor choose what service they would prepare but I guess, some of these Government Agencies decide on their own without any consulation. Now what makes we wonder is that it’s UNIONBANK that controls this e-GSIS ATM Card. Why not Landbank? Why not DBP? I do think these Government Depository Banks have the capability. There’s rumor that the Garcia’s of Cebu have a stake at UNIONBANK (the Aboitizes, also from Cebu). Put two and two together, we get four. But then again, these are mere rumors that we might be mistaken altogether.
Some say that Government Agencies like PHILHEALTH, PAG-IBIG, GSIS, and even SSS (which should be a Private Pension Fund but again under the hands of any Administration) are MILKING COWS of some Politicians not only during Elections but also for LOAN Purposes. I do remember that Villar loaned a couple of Billions from GSIS at the behest of then Pres. Erap. I don’t know what happened to this loan – what this paid back by Villar (who is now the THIRST MOST POWERFUL FIGURE in the Philippine Government? Hmmm.
It’s good you mentioned certain INDUSTRIES that should be REGULATED but the REGULATORS seem to turn a blind eye – Insurance Industry, Energy Sector (IPP – Independent Power Producers), Telecom (Voice and Data) and the Internet.
I do understand your frustration about all these things. I won’t say that you were beset with a lot of problems vis a vis the very Government that should help its citizens. It’s not as bad as we might all think though. Down the line, it’s you who will make your CHOICES and I’m sure, what you have in mind is for the best of your family and yourself.
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 6:16 pm
Your numbers are cute.(no malice intended). I just don’t have the stamina now to be coming up with long computations.
It reminds me a story about a young man who fell into a coma and woke up with a million from his deposit in a bank. He was overjoyed when he realized he was already a millionaire. The thing is prices of commodities have also gone up that his million has a current value of just several hundreds.
Just like the salary of the grandfather of MLQ3, that time, the 30,000 could have bought him several tracts of land,a big house and other comforts in life.
Now that 7.7 million is just a little condo in Makati.
The President now may have only a few hundred thousands of salaries but take a look at the discretionary funds not subject to audits at his/her disposal.
Just take a look at our congressmen and senators. Why would they spend millions to get elected when they have only a few hundred thousands as salaries?
First, they have the pork barrel. Even the party-list
congressmen did not give this “fat pig” up.
Second. They have millions and allowances for their staff (INCLUDING RESEARCH STAFF which should be supplying them with materials that would make them look intellectual during discourses, investigations and committee meetings in Congress).
But why do you feel that there’s no research at all. They still look clueless?
Take a pick:
1. The congressman or senator’s become employment agencies of their unemployed relatives, supporters and friends whose qualifications only include running errands and joining the coterie of alalays.
2. The office becomes a house of GHOSTS who come only on the 15th and 30th
3. The job description does not jive with the job title.
Third. They’re not after these salaries,allowances and pork barrel but they are after the protection of their business interests in their provinces.
When you are in the Senate or Congress, you have access to the bills that are currently being discussed in committees.
Either you kill it or you defer its legislation.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 6:21 pm
The Ca t NEW RULES ON THE REGISTRATION AND SALE OF PRE-NEED PLANS
UNDER SECTION 16 OF THE SECURITIES REGULATION CODE
Let’s approach the term “educational fund” from the point of view of the PRE-NEED INDUSTRY. There are three basic types of PRE-NEED PLANS, (a) Pension; (b) Education; (c) Life. As the new IRR (Implementing Rules and Regulation) by SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission would define:
PRE-NEED PLANS are contracts which provide for the performance of FUTURE SERVICE(s) or PAYMENT OF FUTURE MONETARY CONSIDERATION at the time of actual need, payable either in cash or installment by Planholders at prices stated in the Contract with or without interest or insurance coverage and includes LIFE, PENSION, EDUCATION, INTERMENT, and other plans which the Commission may from time to time approve.” This is most basic definition of what a PRE-NEED PLAN is (with reference to EDUCATIONAL FUND or EDUCATIONAL PLAN).
A TRUST FUND per se would depend much on the “agreement” between the TRUSTEE and the TRUSTOR – this is on a private level as held by BANKS or OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS. In the Public Level, like PENSION FUNDS, SOCIAL SECURITY FUNDS and the sort is in turn handled by the Government and it’s up to that particular agency how to grow the said PUBLIC TRUST FUND.
Yes, TRUST FUNDS have special tax advantages among other things. On who will benefit, how will the fund be disbursed, when the funds would be released to the BENEFICIARY would depend largely on the TERMS OF CONTRACT.
More TRANSPARENCY is needed for Government Trust Funds to be for the benefit of the Member-Contributors. The books should be open, the said Agency should educate the Members how it works, what are their benefits, and sundry. The lack of PROCEDURAL KNOW-HOW in processing, claiming one’s Pension is one of the biggest obstacles for some people.
The key here, everybody knows where the money and there would be less corruption. The Members should in turn be active members.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 6:21 pm
Devils, when looking at a foreign employment offer, do consider not only the salary but also the entire package (e.g. medical benefits for family). A colleague of mine related over dinner last night how his savings from his Singapore stint was wiped out when his mother had a stroke in the early 2000’s. He says that a number of OFW’s want to return to the Philippines because of the lack of this particular benefit.
Karah, about that e-GSIS card, because of that card, my Dad couldn’t get his retirement pension for the past three months.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 6:41 pm
The Ca t There are a lot of bases for coming up with these “relative values” exercises. I actually employed the Consumer Price Index (CPI). There are other models like GDP Deflator, Consumer Bundle, Unskilled Wage, GDP Per Capita, and Relative Share of GDP. I picked CPI because it’s the middle approximation. Let me give an example:
Php 30,000/year (USD 15,000). CPI would yield USD 171,818.18; GDP Deflator would yield USD 143,677.07; Unskilled Wage would yield USD 302,996.21; GDP Per Capita would yield USD 399,659.52; and Relative Share of GDP would yield USD 900,457.23. We cannot exactly compute which is the precise one but take a pick on which among the said models would shall we say “suit your own approximations.”
To date, I think the President has a DISCRETIONARY FUND of 1-2 Billion Pesos. With a re-enacted Budget, the President can literally JUGGLE FUNDS. These funds does not need any Auditing (it is exempt).
The only way to check on this PORK BARRELS, COUNTRYSIDE DEVELOPMENT FUND, or whatever they wanna call it, is for Congressmen/women and Senators PUBLISH or make AVAILABLE to PUBLIC how the funds were spent. May it be an Infrastructure Project, may it be a Livelihood Project, may it be to put of Schools, and other “per projects that these Legislators might have.”
You see, it does not begin and end in the PORK BARREL FUNDS. Aside from the Salary of Congressmen/women and Senators, they are also allocated BUDGETS for Office Expenses, Operational Expenses, Research and Professional Services. Even each Committee in the House and the Senate has it’s own Budget. These things should be also made PUBLIC.
Philippines is only about two things: POWER and MONEY. Take for example, why the Cojuangco’s with their money would still want to occupy a House Seat (remember Charlie and Mark). Are they in for the money? Of course not. They are there to protect their BUSINESS INTERESTS, plain and simple. They are there for POWER.
One thing to push for is ACCESS TO INFORMATION or FREEDOM to INFORMATION for citizens on Public Documents that do no involve Security Matters, Diplomatic Matters, and Military Matters. In terms of Procedural Matters when it comes to Bills, Resolutions, Laws, Administrative Orders, Memorandum of the different Line Agencies should be accessed by the Public especially in PUBLIC BIDDINGS of Projects and the sort.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 6:43 pm
I’ll be on break since my fingers are already tired typing. Be back later.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 6:57 pm
Good for you Tonio. So you’re a blogger now. I bid you all the best re: your Blog.
Talking about Middle Class, we can classify them as Low Middle Class, Middle Middle Class, and Upper Middle Class. I think the MIDDLE CLASS ARENA is very diverse and varied. Take for example the bulk of OFW’s (8 Million or more). They can be considered MIDDLE CLASS spread in the three categories. Yes, Call Center Agents, BPO people, practically working in the Services Sector is part of the Middle Class. Even Small Entrepreneurs are included in the Middle Class. I am just not sure how we classify them.
Well, for one there are a lot of Business being derived from areas near Call Centers, Contact Centers, BPO Centers, and even in Manufacturing firms that go 24hours operation. I am not so sure in the arena of Government Services. Ah Elections from 5am to 5am would first and foremost be very EXPENSIVE and COSTLY because you would have at least two shifts of people that wound man the polling stations. There might be some mechanism, maybe ONLINE VOTING but not this coming Elections though.
Harry on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:10 pm
hi karah:
do you have an msn id? can we be friends?
harry
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:27 pm
Re: Karah’s “Is it because they have attained a certain degree of POLITICAL MATURITY and all sorts of MATURITY for that matter?”
I believe so. It took centuries of warring, tens of millions of deaths, the deplacing of millions and millions of people before Europeans finally achieved political maturity.
Europeans realized that a little more economic homogeneity would bring peace and along with peace a bit more prosperity, that in essence is what is political maturity to many Europeans.
Corruption still exists in many parts of Europe, particularly in the new member nations of the EU but tht is beacause most of them are still very poor but with a lil more help coming from the more ‘politically mature nations’, I believe we will see less of corruption.
In Belgium alone, one of the founding fathers of the EU, ‘petty corruption’, i.e., tax evasion (service providers want to be paid in cash to avoid declaring income and many others), swindling the State by refusing offered jobs (because they get more out of the state in unemployment benefits), is still practiced almost at every level of society but really, not anywhere near, but nowhere near, the practice in Pinas.
However, there is no such thing as widespread corruption in government, no so much because civil servants receive big pay, many of them still are minimum wage earners but this low level of pay is compensated by other living and social advantages.
The EU was basically founded to prevent wars between European nations happening again and that it could be achieved by allowing European societies greater economic upliftment. There is a strong belief in Europe that war is caused by poverty and poverty creates corruption. That is in many ways, Eruope’s political maturity.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:29 pm
Hi Mlq3,
Thanks for the mention.
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:41 pm
Karah, PRE NEED for me is still there to SCREW US. That’s why I have no plans whatsoever to buy into any of them. I have 6 siblings, all of us insured either by CAP or TPG. Only my eldest sister was able to fully utilize her CAP. All of us were still sent to college on full tuitions.
My father has full medical insurance. (i don’t know what company) He doesn’t get its full benefits. GSIS screws its members so much, but you can bet SSS is trying to catch up with it.
In the US, getting benefits is so easy INSURANCE FRAUD is a lucrative business. Here in our country, legitimate benefits are so hard to collect, DEFRAUDING MEMBERS is a lucrative business.
cvj, even before I have graduated, I already had an employer waiting for me. i told you its jz been me who’s been dragging my feet in going to the US. my contract provides for housing, medical, even 401k (whatever that is) with annual appraisal, and lasts only for 2 years, upon which I can either renegotiate or bid my services out.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 7:50 pm
Devils, i see so what’s the hold up? The sooner you go the sooner you can come back.
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:21 pm
cvj, the hold up? i can’t stomach my work. even when i was jz interning, i never enjoyed it. i enjoyed doing call center work more than being stuck in the clinic. it’s terribly depressing dealing with sick people all the time. your heart really has to be in it to last in this field. sad to say, mine isn’t. that’s why i refused to go until i had the shortest length of contract year available. and that was trimmed to 2 yrs.
cvj on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:29 pm
I’m sorry to hear that. I felt the same way with my Accounting Course which i found incredibly boring, which is why i took a job in I.T. instead. (I then eventually found out that I.T. folks largely serve accountants.)
I have a stupid question (since i don’t know the field), instead of going into physical therapy itself, what if you become a masseuse? or a sports therapist? Aren’t the skill sets the same and you’ll be dealing with healthier bodies?
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:53 pm
actually, that is my plan. to be either a sports therapist or a gym instructor. sometimes i imagine breaking into the “big league.” I’d be Sharapova’s personal trainer (wow!) or an NBA/NFL therapist.
instead, i’m bound for a nursing home.
well, i guess i have to start somewhere.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 8:58 pm
Devils,
if you don’t like staying too long in clinics, you can opt for a sales job there – selling therapy related products but again covering clinics, gyms,c etc. I’m sure there are lots of companies there that you can try, the most basic requirement is just that you like meeting people. The pay is probably more than above average.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:00 pm
“well, i guess i have to start somewhere.”
Hey, take heart in this, even if it starts from the bottom, the cream always rises to the top.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:07 pm
cvj, devils,
physical therapy or even masseuse (legit ones) are in great demand even in Europe. You have to book an appointment with a therapist well or long in advance almost to get a decent time slot.
My masseuse charges 50 Euros (almost 90 US$?) for 45 minutes of physical thereapy to give you an idea (went up from 40 Euros last year.)
Of course it must be extremely hard work to be doing it 7 or 8 hours a day. (Don’t know though how much they pay in taxes but I reckon they don’t declare some of their income when they’re paid in cash.)
rego on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:17 pm
Galing galing naman ng mga comments. Nais ko sanang makipagsabayan sa inyo. Kaya lang delayed na tong mga ginagawa ko.
Of course I read all the comments including your reply Manolo, Karah, and Shaman nasi ko sana mag reply kaya. Kaya lang busing busy dito.
Anyways keep it up guys!
Hey Karah, dont you know that your presence is putting order in this blog. Biglang nabawasan yung mga bangayan personalan na comments. Kaya maganda ang kinalabsan. Mas lalong nakakenjoy ang forum na to.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:18 pm
“With that said, talking about alternative forms of governments is futile, and, worse, an elite-only discussion.”
I see your point there, a big percentage of our population would be more concerned about “where to get their next meal” or “where to sleep” or “how to buy medicine.” But I believe it only takes around 20% of the population to effect changes that will benefit the whole, the “critical few” can move the “trivial many.” A man dying of thirst in the desert would drink the sand if you tell him its water. What you call “elite” I call “empowered” the former I would reserve for people of wealth or Ateneans/La Salleans.
Radical changes mostly come from the plebeian, hungry but empowered, not wealthy either – so theres nothing much to lose.
Harry on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:32 pm
i’ve been waiting for 2 hours or so in here and there’s no sign of karah yet.
karah,
could i possibly obtain even just your email add?
harry
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:34 pm
“What does not kille me, makes me stronger.†(Friedrich Nietzsche)
Karah, this has been my favorite quote since high school but don’t get me wrong I’m no Hitler.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:37 pm
“i’ve been waiting for 2 hours or so in here and there’s no sign of karah yet.
karah,
could i possibly obtain even just your email add?
harry”
Hehehe. Is “eyeballing” allowed in blogging?
DevilsAdvc8 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:39 pm
“Hey, take heart in this, even if it starts from the bottom, the cream always rises to the top.”
thanks for the encouragement!
MBW, yeah really in demand. and salary is 3 or four times higher than that of a nurse’s. and you’re right, it’s extremely back breaking. working as therapists, we’d need one as well for the toll it takes on our bodies.
rego, i’ve missed your participation as well. you, bencard, and benigs seldom show up anymore. you’re the guys who ground me and keep me from straying too far to the left. in fact, it’s been an honor reading your own views into the various discussions here in Manolo’s blog. i think w/o lucid opposition tempering Manolo’s blog, it could’ve long degenerated into a hate blog like Ellen’s.
i always see the points you raise, and why, i temper my own views as well.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:44 pm
Whatever happened to Francis? I miss his christian bashing rants.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:45 pm
Harry I’m no celebrity that I would post my email add in here. I’m just a private citizen and I’m here to join in the discussions .
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:47 pm
Ram The quote itself breeds “determination and persistence.” We know too well that Nietzche’s was considered one of the forerunners of “existentialism” and one of those who challenged THE ESTABLISHMENT during his era: “the very foundations governing CHRISTIANITY and it’s MORAL TRADITIONS.” Good to find someone who’s interested in Nietzsche this part of the Net.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 9:58 pm
DevilsAdvc8 Basing from your experience, I won’t blame you on how you view these PRE NEED firms. “A man’s loss is another man’s gain.” Pretty much the culture in RAKING IN PROFITS for the company whilst leaving their Planholders to the dust. But then again, one of the culprits in the collapse of the Educational Pre-Needs was partly to be blamed by the DEREGULATION of TUITION.
Talking about CAP, it was pure “siphoning off of funds” and “mismanagement.” CAP used to the biggest then with a snap of a finger, it collapsed. The Sobrepena’s have a lot to answer but it seems the issue died down.
I know how INSURANCE companies behave. Their agents move heaven and earth to convince you to get a PLAN and yet once you’ve become a Planholder and you need to process CLAIMS, they treat you like dirt. This is true not only in the MEDICAL INSURANCE but also in AUTO INSURANCE. GSIS and SSS is is gaining a lot of ground in being INEPT and practically USELESS.
I remember one recent movie, “SICKO.” Have you seen it? It’s all about the PROFITS and how to EVADE expenditures. I was even exploring the idea of SOCIALIZED Healthcare like that in Canada, France, and the UK but I am not so sure whether the Philippines can afford one knowing the Population Obstacle.
TDC on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:06 pm
“I doubt there are many “true Filipinosâ€. as has been said by many people on this blog. the people who live here tend to think in this order: i am (surname), my family is from (province), i live in (neighbourhood), i went to (school), i am a Filipino.Tonio”
Very accurate reading.More people attend an Ateneo vs La Salle basketball game than commemorate the people power day or the June 12th independence day.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:16 pm
Manila Bay Watch Come to think of it, the Philippines is comparatively speaking, still a very young Democracy. What’s a bit disheartening is the fact that why countries like Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, and even Thailand were able to surpass us. But then again, each country has it’s own pains and sorrows, each country is unique.
Actually, I think that the creation of the EU brought a lot of good to Europe in the widest sense of the word and in all aspects. As you said: “economic homogeneity” brought what is now called a FORMIDABLE EU Bloc.
Peace and prosperity exists in Western Europe and hopefully with the inclusion of some Eastern Bloc States would have its magic effect. We know too well that some of these Eastern Bloc countries are still recovering from decades of COMMUNIST RULE. There’s a lot of poverty and system failures. The likes of Poland and the Baltic States are becoming “fast emerging markets” in their own rights.
Corruption is everywhere. Even in Finland which is THE LEAST CORRUPT (take note, it did not say ZERO CORRUPT) acknowledges the reality that CORRUPTION is everywhere, the question is “TO WHAT DEGREE” it has seeped into the system and the people.
When I was in Europe in 2000, I find their Immigration Procedures very practical and logical. I don’t know now though since we’re dealing with a post 9/11 scenario wherein some measures were enforced especially in the UK.
The Ca t on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:19 pm
Thank you karah for the response.
If it is this kind of exchange of ideas that we will observe in this forum, we will be learning from each other.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:25 pm
Rego All these “clashing of ideas” is inevitable. Each individual is governed by his/her own “collection of experiences” – background, attitude, temperament, personality, and so on and so forth.
There are times though that there would always be individuals who spoil the “status quo.” Some are valid, some are mere germs. When people are reprimanded, they react and even react violently. Until resorting to hurling invectives and throwing smut in the air happens. It might be due to EGO, PRIDE, all sorts of things. As for me, I deal with them accordingly. As long as we “exchange ideas” in a professional and mature manner, I don’t think there would be any commotion that would occur.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:28 pm
The Ca t You are most welcome. Looking forward to more interaction and interfacing about a wide range of issues in this Blog.
I remember the Johari’s Window, there would always be certain aspects of ourselves and how we view things that is concealed from us. Interfacing with other people makes us realize some of these blind spots.
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:45 pm
I remember watching SICKO but I was more amused than disturbed, most of what the guy was talking about we don’t have here or we’re not familiar with. He’s the guy in “An Awful Truth” right?
Speaking of insurance companies, is Manulife part of the “avoid” list or is it okay?
“The quote itself breeds “determination and persistence.â€
Yes. Initially it got me into all sorts of trouble with my parents – one of the reasons I joined organizations that would make the feeble tremble at that age, starting from the altar boys’ club (we had initiatiations for that already), CAT officers corp, then moving up to fraternities, until Baguio – where my unrelenting fascination for challenges was finally beaten out of me and turned me into what I am now, an “anal retentive.”
Of course it has also helped me survive several heartaches (I can’t possibly live w/out u types), near failing grades, bullies, therapy (the one that follows after you break a leg), bankruptcy, two car crashes, drowning, etc.
You know this is the first blog I’ve tried, I started last month for a day then stopped, then went bank in the other day. I have to admit its quite addicting, even while driving its at the back of my mind, its a shame you can’t blog and drive, even with we roam – you need both hands. Its a lot better than the Icon radio of the past “CQ break, whats your qth?” and the nonsencse that follows, or the more recent texting craze “here na me wer n u?” I even tried chatting but only once, I stopped when someone typed “wanna cyber?” I’m M, sorry. Of course there’s the office intranet but its monitored/censored, and I’m not much of a “boybastos” or “FHM” fan also. It sure beats watching the soap operas, and I’m too domesticated to enjoy “nightlife.”
At the moment, this is my opiate…
ramrod on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 10:56 pm
“When I was in Europe in 2000, I find their Immigration Procedures very practical and logical. I don’t know now though since we’re dealing with a post 9/11 scenario wherein some measures were enforced especially in the UK.”
Still is Karah, its only on your way out (from the Philippines) thats a bit perplexing. And yes Poland is a very promising emerging market and even Russia to the other side so is Brazil. I’m not counting out the Philippines, its just a temporary setback, sort of like the old “Fernando Poe” movies where in the beginning the bad guy beats him up and then he makes a comeback.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:18 pm
Ramrod,
““When I was in Europe in 2000, I find their Immigration Procedures very practical and logical. I don’t know now though since we’re dealing with a post 9/11 scenario wherein some measures were enforced especially in the UK.â€
Pretty much the same thing – you present your passport, it’s checked by immigration official and if there’s no problem with the passport, you are allowed in. They have stepped up certain luggage check, there are a few more questions to answer at the boarding desk but on the whole, pretty much the same procedures.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:29 pm
Re: “What’s a bit disheartening is the fact that why countries like Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, and even Thailand were able to surpass us.”
Don’t know but it could because they are too distracted by having to administer 7 thousand islands with so many different languages and different moeurs?
Take Europe, it took centuries and centuries of great instability to achieve relative peace and I put that to an incredible disparity brought about by language and moeurs. Relative peacce was very recent too!
In other words, the Philippines has a long way to go. I reckon, RP has got to instill a bit of economic homogeneity first among the islands to achieve political maturity.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:30 pm
Ram What I find interesting in the “Sicko” was how they do it in other countries. The difference between SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE and RELYING ON PRIVATE INSURANCE. I don’t know the viability if Socialized Insurance is implemented in the RP, need to do some study and research work on that regard.
I think MANULIFE FINANCIAL is a Canadian Company. I would suppose that Canadian Healthcare Companies are more Responsible than their American counterparts. Anyway, try to ask some friends who already have existing “accounts and/or plans” with Manulife.
Well, we all have our share of pitfalls and potholes along the way. What’s important is we muster our strength and pick ourself up from the fall and emerger a better and a wiser person. Although I must admit I haven’t experienced some of the events that happened in your life.
Don’t get me wrong but does your “anal retentive” behavior border on obsessive-compulsive tendencies? Just a question. I forgot who said this but to paraphrase: “The only way to get the BEST out of a person is for that person to have come face to face with his WORST side.” I mean, this is applicable to some, might not to some.
It’s good to know that you found solace in “blogging” or the Blog of MLQ3. I have heard of MLQ3 alright but how I found this blog was merely coincidental. I chanced upon a blog of a Reporter at ABC 5 by the name of Jove Francisco. It was in his Blog that I found a link to MLQ3’s Blog and so I ended up posting comments in here.
Maybe if Voice Recognition Softwares would be perfected and integrated in Blogs maybe then you can Blog and Drive.
Never been into Two-way radios. Never been into the Texting Craze – I only text my relatives and some friends. I don’t have any interest in chatting as well.
karah on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:43 pm
Manila Bay Watch There was a time that Philippines was No. 2 in Asia next to Japan (60’s to 70’s?) and the geographical consideration is still the same then and now. We do recognize that it’s so hard to govern an “archipelagic country” but it was done before and why can’t it be done now. I think it was the people that changed a lot.
Yes, Europe is one example of “growings pains.” It took them centuries to put their act together. Europe though or rather EU is a bloc of countries and even before EU was conceptualized, there were already some countries that had peace and stability. I remember in the recent 12th ASEAN Summit in Cebu, Philippines, some of its members are putting forward the idea of INTEGRATION. Nice idea but easier said and done. Before any “integration” could be done, the Philippines should “get its act together first.”
Filipinos still have strong REGIONALISTIC TENDENCIES. Now there are advantages and disadvantages. Even in Politics, it’s still a game of “What province you came from” or “What language/dialect you speak?” The rivalry is still there though not obvious. Even in Elections, there’s the Cebuano Vote, the Ilocandia Vote, and so on and so forth. How about a Federal form of Government?
mlq3 on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:53 pm
karah, thanks for that, very useful for some research i’m doing. i’m awful with numbers.
when i tried a similar computation, a government janitor’s salary in 1937, in 2004 pesos would have been 18,000 a month.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:55 pm
Karah,
To me, a federal form of government can truly work only if there’s political maturity.
Again, I’m basing that on European nations’ experience. Federal form was implemented in many nations in Europe only recently (30 years or 40 years).
Just think of this: You will have a set of national laws and a set of federal laws and there’s got to be an incredible and healthy respect for those two sets of intertwined laws to work and make federalism a success.
Saw that in France a few years back when the government of Ile de France (Paris and metropolis) fought bitterly with national government over taxation.
Manila Bay Watch on Tue, 2nd Oct 2007 11:59 pm
And for heavens’ sake, if RP is dead set into going into a federal form of govt, don’t patter it after Belgium!
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:01 am
karah, when i was still working in the palace, one group wanted all SAL’s without exception, to be posted on the internet. this proposal was shot down by another faction in the palace.
i myself proposed that the official gazette be put on line and that the old premartial law structure be followed: all executive issuances (eo’s, ao’s, mc’s, etc.) be published as well as documents deemed of historical importance, as well as the daily schedule/activities of the president, and finally, government departmental ao’s, mc’s, etc. finally, as premartial law, a regular list of presidential appointments and designations (i can tell you, quite easily, who was appointed to what, and replaced by whom, from 1946-1972; this is impossible now unless you spend weeks trying to put news clippings together) but this proposal was rejected.
also, there is no really organized system of archiving presidential documents. the only president who seemed to have been efficient in this regard was fvr.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:03 am
Karah,
Re ” I think it was the people that changed a lot. ”
Or the number of inhabitants, i.e., population? RP’s population growth is too radical, so runaway, the economy can’t keep up!
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:04 am
MLQ3 Most welcome MLQ3. In 1937, how much is the salary of a Janitor anyway? Since I’m pretty new in your Blog, I’m getting a bit confused where I’ll post my reply. Is it in this Article or on the the latest Article?
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:05 am
Re: “i myself proposed that the official gazette be put on line and that the old premartial law structure be followed:”
A practice in Europe, particularly in countries governed by the Napoleonic Code.
Official gazzettes for every decision, every tax declaration of every nationally elected official should be in the official journal, etc.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:12 am
karah, now that you mention car insurances, had a bad experience with that as well. we were insured, but had to pay a large amt still. ahrgh! no insurance company is worth trusting! i’d rather keep my money now rather than entrust it to someone for something i’m not even sure i’d be spending for. PRE NEED my ass. if i need it, that’s when I’d spend for it. w/my own present money. i dnt care if i spend more. id rather trust myself than others. just imagine paying premium for years only to find out you’d been fleeced. no. let the PRE NEED industry die its natural death.
re sicko, the filmmaker is Michael Moore, also wrote and directed Bowling for Columbine, Awful Truth, Fahrenheit 9/11
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:16 am
karah, re: regional vote, i can’t recall where but those studying political behavior seem to be observing that it’s on the wane, as is the religious vote. also, there’s much more inter-island migration, and cross-cultural marriages. this is why i find some provinces so inspiring. cross-fertilization is a good thing, in many ways: there are areas where established families have been toppled because new migrants moved in (replaced by new families but that’s a start), others where leaders have integrated the people into governance to a point that it may be self-sustaining (naga city, for example), even baguio, i love it because it’s a university town now and not just a place dependent on government going on holiday, etc.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:20 am
Manolo, that would’ve been a VERY good project indeed! except for the president’s itinerary, going online is the best way to be transparent. (and the only reason i disagree w/publishing the president’s itinerary is quite obvious. we dnt want our president assassinated w/our help now, do we? even if she is Gloria)
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:25 am
karah, usually, reply to the replies to your reply in the entry you originally replied to, hehe.
i’m off to bed, but i’ll try to post a sampling of government salaries from the 1937 budget and whatever others i can scrounge up.
Manila Bay Watch on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:26 am
Devils,
Whether you post her itinerary or not, if an assasin is determined to shoot her, she would be a dead duck.
Of course, no need to post itinerary in the most minute detail – the highlights or most important ones like dates places for her island hopping in Pinas or her itinerary during her overseas trips would be sufficient but I think it can and should be done in spite of security considerations. She’s got thousands to watch over her from her own guards – they should do their job to preempt threats or to protect her from a would be assasin.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:27 am
devil’s, not the itinerary before it happens, but well, in the old official gazette it was titled “the president’s week in review,” where they went, who they met, what they did. it’s invaluable for the historical record. again, say for magsaysay or macapagal i could tell you what they did, officially, practically hour-by-hour during their entire terms.
the official gazette became spotty then devoid of useful content starting with martial law.
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:36 am
MLQ3: Maybe on a larger scale, yes, the “regional vote” is waning down. There are some exceptions to this. I think the CEBU VOTE is still there. What do you think about the INC Bloc-Voting, can they really deliver the votes?
Yes, there’s a lot of migration these days. People from the provinces are moving into the BIG CITIES (Manila-Area which is a constant, Laguna-Area and Batangas-Area due to the Industrial Estates, Cebu-Area, a bit in the Bacolod-Area and Iloilo-Area, Davao-Area perhaps.
We hope to see NEW BLOOD Politics to at least give some fresh ideas into our “near collapse” Political Situation. Talking about University Town, I hope to see more of these. What I know is Baguio, then Dumaguete (Siliman U).
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:39 am
MBW I am not only talking of Demograpics. I am talking about ATTITUDES and VALUES. Rapid Population is one culprit but here are a whole gamut of other culprits to this.
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:42 am
DEVILS These Car Insurance Companies are USELESS. As I’ve said in another comment, when they offer plans and all that, they act like you’re a Prince or a Princess but once you need to process CLAIMS, they either EVADE or show their TRUE COLORS – well they avoid payment plain and simple.
Yes, it’s better to have your own “Insurance Fund” at least you’re the keeping it. It’s so hard to TRUST your money to these Firms knowing that you are secured (in this financial aspect) but then when you need the help of these PRE-NEEDS, they suck big time.
I don’t know why these INSURANCE COMPANIES still survive. The only way to kill them is for people not to buy Premiums and Plans, let’s see what happens.
Yes, the Film “SICKO” was produced and directed by Michael Moore I think.
grd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:47 am
“Hey Karah, dont you know that your presence is putting order in this blog. Biglang nabawasan yung mga bangayan personalan na comments. Kaya maganda ang kinalabsan. Mas lalong nakakenjoy ang forum na to.” rego
agree with you rego. but the first time karah posted her comment here one bigot (your friend) started hitting her. too typical of a behavior of those patriots from another blog. but i guess napahiya rin later.
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:47 am
MLQ3: Your reply to my reply is a bit confusing but anyhow I’ll do what you said according to how I understand it
You must be sleepy for saying such confusing stuff.
Okay, I’ll check tomorrow re: Samplings of Government Salaries (1937). Will wait for that and we’ll try to see the relative values of such Salaries at present. Night.
P.S. Regarding the other assignment re: Historical Forensic Accounting. Will post tomorrow since I haven’t read the Article yet (I think it was about your Grandpa). Reading and browsing thru comments, I’m getting cross-eyed.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:47 am
karah, what i have before me is commonwealth act no. 446, the general appropriations act for 1939-1940
a sampling (salaries and wages are per annum; the minimum daily wage in this era was 1 peso a day)
I. National Assembly
One Speaker of the National Assembly: 16,000
Ninety-seven members of the National Assembly at 5,000: 485,000
One Secretary of the National Assembly: 9,000
Two stenographers at 3,480: 6,960.00
One clerk-stenographer: 2,400
One clerk-stenographer: 1,200
Two messengers at 480: 960
One chaffeur: 720
One secretary to the commission on impeachment: 2,400
One guard: 720.00
Six guards at 600: 3,600
Two roneo-operators at 540: 1,080
Two translators at 2,760: 5,520
One janitor and chief watchman, with free quarters, water and light, while required to live in the Legislative Building: 1,080
Four watchmen at 660: 2,640
Four elevator operators at 660: 2,640
One laborer: 600
For technical, secretarial, and clerical services to the Members of the National Assembly: Provided, that the total cost of such service for each Member shall not exceed the sum of 6,000 per annum, the latter to fix and determine the number and compensation and the force required for such service, the length of service, and whether part or full time, in Manila or outside; Provided, further, That no member of said technical, secretarial, or clerical force shall be paid per diems or traveling expenses when leaving Manila or rendering service outside of the city: 588,000
For the expenses of the Assembly in connection with official receptions and entertainments: 3,000
(total amount for the National Assembly: 1,785,050.00)
II. Office of the President
The President of the Philippines: 30,000
One Secretary to the President, with the rank of Secretary of Department: 12,000
One Assistant Secretary to the President: 9,000
One administrative assistant: 6,000
One technical assistant: 3,600
One stenographer: 2,400
Three messengers at 480: 1,440
One watchman: 840
One chief janitor: 660
Five janitors at 480: 2,400
One legislative assistant: 6,000
One librarian: 1,200
One protocol officer: 6,000
Additional compensation of 10 per diem to aides-de-camp to the President: 10,980
One chief of records and curator: 5,040
Additional compensation of 10 per diem to the Provost Officer and Commandant, Malacanan Guard: 3,660
One steward: 1,560
One cook: 1,080
One cook: 1,020
One cook: 540
Two servants at 660: 1,320
One laundryman: 600
One laundrywoman: 600
One chauffeur: 1,140
One chauffeur: 1,080
One chauffeur: 960
One gardener: 1,020
(Total amount for the Office of the President: 329,140.00)
etc, etc. Total National Budget for 1939-40: 74,441,357.00
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:10 am
MLQ3: With regards to the SAL’s, I would understand that some factions want “greater transparency” and one faction wanted “secrecy.” I hate to say this but EVIL prevailed in that regard.
What’s puzzling is that why didn’t they adopt your idea? I mean we are already in the 21st Century. Here they come proposing about an NBN and yet even in the Palace, there’s no EFFICIENT & EFFECTIVE SYSTEM to handle Archiving much more putting these information in a ON-LINE DATABASE. A lot of people might not have any interest about EO’s, AO’s, MC’s but some people are the these some people are also Taxpayers. Did they give any reason why they rejected your proposal?
I am amazed at the same time aghast by the fact that you said that “there’s not organized system of archiving presidential documents” even to this date. Wow. What are the staff doing in the Palace anyhow? Counting Lizards on the wall?
grd on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:13 am
“The Enron executives were already confortably rich with their salaries,bonuses and other perks and yet, the exec’s wife still charged her shopping expenses to the corporate accounts.
It is not only greed. It is also power and accessibility to the resources.” The Cat
so true Cat-cat. i’m a witness to that.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:49 am
Manolo, ah. if its like a week in review or archiving something, then its all for the better. after all, what better way to learn the lessons of the past presidency but from that record. (and i guess Jolina’s President’s week in review doesn’t count eh?)
MBW, lols. determined to kill her? gasp. i think people are terrified she’d be assassinated. jz imagine the chaos and anarchy that would ensue. altho ur right, when someone’s determined, not even the most vigilant security will be able to stop it.
karah, ah well. i guess what is needed is information campaign abt other options aside from these companies. people have to know they can secure their money on their own. in the US, they have various NGOs that are consumer oriented, evaluating private companies, products, etc, etc. companies with bad practices are pinpointed and consumers are then forewarned. suits are also filed, facilitated through these groups. TORT is big in the US. in here, i doubt if even most filipinos can comprehend they can probably milk a lot from big companies if they can prove harmful wrong doing of these companies. jz wait till pinoys realize what a cash cow that is and you’d have companies here rushing to improve consumer services.
professional dilettante on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:34 am
One wonders what is really behind all this.
At first glance, it looks like a fight over a medium size deal.
What puzzles me is why the executive did not give JDV3 another deal somewhere else in compensation.
I am also curious as to why the Speaker and the President have allowed, what appears to be a “family” squabble, to spill out into the public’s view.
The only thing that is clear is that none of the current actors/puppets on stage are there from any deep seated sense of morality or patriotism.
I think we are seeing the opening phases of a serious conflict within the ruling coalition to determine what will happen in 2009/10.
If an agreement is not reached between the Speaker and the President soon, we can expect ever more sordid revelations.
A few dead bodies too, but that will be from over-enthusiastic minions (who are not cleared for the real plan) getting carried away.
ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 8:29 am
“Filipinos still have strong REGIONALISTIC TENDENCIES. Now there are advantages and disadvantages. Even in Politics, it’s still a game of “What province you came from†or “What language/dialect you speak?†The rivalry is still there though not obvious. Even in Elections, there’s the Cebuano Vote, the Ilocandia Vote, and so on and so forth. How about a Federal form of Government?” – Karah
These tendencies could still be put to good use yet, I have always found organizing large groups into “small unit leadership” sub-groups very effective and with an efficient coordination system – you’ll get a “eureka – like” reaction, mountains can be moved this way. Top that off with an agreed common direction, allow “guided” autonomy to these leaders and maybe even inject some form of competition, you’ll be up and running in no time. Federal looks ideal for our geological and culturally-diversed setup, if only we are lucky enough to choose good leaders.
BrianB on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:05 am
“Filipinos still have strong REGIONALISTIC TENDENCIES”
For God’s sakes every big country has this problem. The US had a civil war, for crying out loud. They killed one another. Regionalism is only a problem if your people are primitives.
Russia, ancient China, Most big countries in Europe. All these excuses about why we’re poor lack insight.
ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:27 am
BrianB
Precisely, all we need is to rally behind a common goal – all regions, every island, every dialect group, together “we refuse to be poor, we refuse to be victims, from now on we control our own destiny and take hold of victory!” and then go back to our jobs and work our tails off! And talking about helping the poor, there’s this organization “Hope” I think thats soliciting for their scholarships for deserving underpriveleged children, I pass by their booth in the mall all the time, would anyone be interested in helping these people out by sponsoring a child? This is a step to converting what we’ve been fervently discussing into action…
cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:21 am
And in the process, i hope the ‘we’ would increasingly stand for ‘We Filipinos’ (not ‘we arroyos’, ‘we cebuanos’, ‘we malays’, ‘we fil-ams’ etc.)
ramrod on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:29 am
cvj,
The “arroyo’s” are saying “we refuse to get caught you amateurs!” “hahahaha, hahahaha!” (ala Dr. Evil)
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:33 pm
karah, providing public access to SAL’s wasn’t my idea. it was the brainchild of Rigoberto Tiglao, at the time presidential chief of staff. He had many reform-oriented ideas and proposals. But he and those who worked with him, were only a faction in a large administration with competing interests (as is the case in any administration). The Supreme Court itself refuses to publish it’s SALS which played a role in the impeachment attempt vs. then Chief Justice Davide.
I can only hazard a guess as to the sloppy nature of record-keeping in the Palace. First, fewer and fewer crucial documents are written, because of the potential of leaks; second, much of what really ends up decided is done so by means of informal conversations, the era of having presidential meetings accompanied by stenographic notes is long past. third, a president’s methods of management really has an impact on the way record-keeping’s held. ramos, for example, instituted the bar code system where every document received got a bar code that was scanned into a database for tracking purposes.
the permament staff of the palace do not have access to the inner offices of the president, just as since the estrada years, the traditional powers of the executive secretary have been diluted and so, no one is really on top of minding the sotre, this is politically useful as the more overlapping functions there are, the more everyone is dependent on direct presidential intervention to resolve issues concerning turf. turf, as we know, is the no.1 obsession of all bureaucrats, anywhere.
we also do not have a tradition of presidents donating their archives to the state, as far as i know, only my grandfather donated his presidential papers and he had a very organized executive secretary. the quirino, roxas, laurel, magsaysay papers are in private hands administered by foundations established by their families. marcos’s papers are under sequestration. the aquino and ramos papers are in their respective hands as well. i undersatand the papers of dm will end up in his alma mater, ust, while the president intends to donate her presidential papers to the ateneo de manila.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 12:42 pm
cjv, i myself concentrate my studies on the american period, but the debate on the malolos constitution are interesting, the definitive book so far is cesar adib majul’s book on the political thought of the malolos republic. you will find many of your views identitical with mabini’s.
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:08 pm
I’m having eyebags with this blogging thing. Just get some cucumber and rest my eyes for a while . Now I know what are the effects of blogging – lack of sleep and eyebags.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 1:13 pm
professional dilettante:
good question. there is no reason things should have come to this within the ruling coalition, unless in the palace, the hard-liners have taken over (and it seems logical they have, starting 2005) which means normal back channels to smooth things out are gone, and there’s a take-no-prisoners mentality. in which case, escalation and brinksmanship is the name of the game, and the reason why open war is erupting between the speaker, who is accomodation personified, and the palace, which thrives on a bunker mentality.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:04 pm
karah, eyebags and i think you established a record for this blog -the first time blogflirting was attempted by a commenter with another commenter!
cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:21 pm
Manolo, thanks for the pointer. I checked the Singapore National Library and they have two of Majul’s books:
- Mabini and the Philippine revolution
- The political and constitutional ideas of the Philippine revolution
- Apolinario Mabini revolutionary
I’ll check them out when time permits.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 2:51 pm
mlq3, i think its love at first read for Harry.
cvj on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:04 pm
sorry, i meant *three* of Majul’s books.
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:16 pm
MLQ3
National Assembly
Speaker of the National Assembly – Php 16,000 (USD 8,000) = USD 116,112.31 or Php 5,341,116.26
Member of the National Assembly – Php 5,000 (USD 2,500) = USD 36,285.10 or Php 1,669,114.60
Secretary of the National Assembly – Php 9,000 (USD 4,500) = USD 65,313.17 or Php 3,004,405.82
Stenographers – Php 3,480 (USD 1,740) = USD 25,254.43 or Php 1,161,703.78
Clerk-stenographer – Php 2,400 (USD 1,200) = USD 17,416.85 or Php 801,175.10
Clerk-stenographer – Php 1,200 (USD 600) = USD 8,708.42 or Php 400,587.32
Messengers – Php 480 (USD 240) = USD 3,483.37 or Php 160,235.02
Chauffeur – Php 720 (USD 360) = USD 5,225.05 or Php 240,352.30
Secretary to the commission on impeachment – Php 2,400 (USD 1,200) = USD 17,416.85 or Php 801,175.10
Guard – Php 720 (USD 360) = USD 5,225.05 or Php 240,352.30
Guards – Php 600 (USD 300) = USD 4,354.21 or Php 200,293.66
Roneo-operators – Php 540 (USD 270) = USD 3,918.79 or Php 180,264.34
Translators – Php 2,760 (USD 1,380) = USD 20,029.37 or Php 921,351.02
Janitor & chief watchman – Php 1,080 (USD 540) = USD 7,837.58 or Php 360,528.68
Watchmen – Php 660 (USD 330) = USD 4,789.63 or Php 220,322.98
Elevator operators – Php 660 (USD 330) = USD 4,789.63 or Php 220,322.98
Laborer – Php 600 (USD 300) = USD 4,354.21 or Php 200,293.66
TOTAL National Assembly Budget – Php 1,785,050 (USD 892,525) = USD 12,954,142.55 or Php 595,890,557.30
Office of the President
President of the Philippines – Php 30,000 (USD 15,000) = USD 217,710.58 or Php 10,014,686.68
Secretary to the President – Php 12,000 (USD 6,000) = USD 87,084.23 or Php 4,005,874.58
Assistant Secretary to the President – Php 9,000 (USD 4,500) = USD 65,313.17 or Php 3,004,405.82
Administrative Assistant – Php 6,000 (USD 3,000) = USD 43,542.12 or Php 2,002,937.52
Technical Assistant – Php 3,600 (USD 1,800) = USD 26,125.27 or Php 1,201,762.42
Stenographer – Php 2,400 (USD 1,200) = USD 17,416.85 or Php 801,175.10
Messengers – Php 480 (USD 240) = USD 3,483.37 or Php 160,235.02
Watchman – Php 840 (USD 420) = USD 6,095.90 or Php 280,411.40
Chief janitor – Php 660 (USD 330) = USD 4,789.63 or Php 220,322.98
Janitors – Php 480 (USD 240) = USD 3,483.37 or Php 160,235.02
Legislative assistant – Php 6,000 (USD 3,000) = USD 43,542.12 or Php 2,002,937.52
Librarian – Php 1,200 (USD 600) = USD 8,708.42 or Php 400,587.32
Protocol officer – Php 6,000 (USD 3,000) = USD 43,542.12 or Php 2,002,937.52
Chief of records and curator – Php 10,980 (USD 5,490) = USD 79,682.07 or Php 3,665,375.22
Steward – Php 1,560 (USD 780) = USD 11,320.95 or Php 520,763.70
Cook – Php 1,080 (USD 540) = USD 7,837.58 or Php 360,528.68
Cook – Php 1,020 (USD 510) = USD 7,402.16 or Php 340,499.36
Cook – Php 540 (USD 270) = USD 3,918.79 or Php 180,264.34
Servants – Php 660 (USD 330) = USD 4,789.63 or Php 220,322.98
Laundryman – Php 600 (USD 300) = USD 4,354.21 or Php 200,293.66
Laundrywoman – Php 600 (USD 300) = USD 4,354.21 or Php 200,293.66
Chauffeur – Php 1,140 (USD 570) = USD 8,273.00 or Php 380,558
Chauffeur – Php 1,080 (USD 540) = USD 7,837.58 or Php 360,528.68
Chauffeur – Php 960 (USD 480) = USD 6,966.74 or Php 320,470.04
Gardener – Php 1,020 (USD 510) = USD 7,402.16 or Php 340,499.36
TOTAL Office of the President Budget – Php 329,140 (USD 165,570) = USD 4,777,150.76 or Php 219,748,934.90
TOTAL NATIONA BUDGET (1939-1940) – Php 74,441,357 (USD 37,220,678.50) = USD 540,222,374.77 or Php 24,236,086,800.00
Note: Only included individual YEARLY Salaries & Subtotals. All the final figures in PESO are 2006 relative value of the US Dollar Conversions vis a vis the Dollar Equivalent of Salaries from 1939-1940. These are mere approximations employing the CPI (Consumer Price Index) Model, which I think is the middle ground computation as compared to other models
1939-1940: 1 USD = 2 PHP
Present Rate: 1 USD = 46 PHP
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:21 pm
MLQ3 So it was Ambassador Bobi Tiglao’s idea. If his proposals came into fruition, it would have instituted certain reforms not only to “streamline” the present system but access to those who are interested on how Politicians and Political Appointees enrich themselves whilst in office. I do concur that there might be some aspects of the SAL that can be considered as “person and confidential” but it’s also in the SAL we know whether these Politicians live within their means as PUBLIC SERVANTS. Well, “hiding” something from the Public would always not only DENOTE but as well as CONNOTE that “something is fishy.” What are they afraid of anyways?
Do you mean to say that the Office of the President (and the whole Malacanang Bureaucracy) make important decisions for the Nation based on “verbal agreements?” I can’t believe this. Now with all the technological advancement, the system (if there is any that is) as I see it is PRE-HISTORIC if not ARCHAIC. I do commend FVR for having such a system. This is another case of the “perennial” NO CONTINUITY situation. FVR started a good system but it wasn’t followed through during the Erap Administration. Wasted opportunities.
Do these people (the ones in Malacanang) that they are called “PUBLIC SERVANTS” or they think that being in Malacanang is like being an “untouchable” or they even thin that they are “sons and daughters of greater gods” compared to the common Filipinos. How do you gauge the present ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTUCE and the ORGANIZATIONAL BEHAVIOR within the confines of the Palace? Is it working? Is it useless? I mean you worked there and I would suppose you have seen how things work from an “insider’s view” and now from an “outsider’s view.”
These Presidential Papers are I think Public Documents and should be turned over to the STATE – these are considered State Historical Legacies. Are you familiar how they dispense with “presidential papers” in other nations, maybe like the USA? I do admire your Grandfather. How do you see these PRESIDENTIAL PAPERS? Would they be categorized as “public documents” or “private documents?” And does the Public have access to these papers with reference to the Foundations and Schools that hold these papers for safekeeping?
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 4:23 pm
MLQ3 I have no idea who this Harry is. Anyhow, his tactics won’t work with me. If he wants to impress me then he should join in the discussions rather than asking “irrelevant queries” with reference to the Blog.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:24 pm
karah, you’re simply amazing!
so a malacanan laundrywoman would have been earning, in today’s pesos, the equivalent of about 16,691 a month. a gardener, an equivalent in today’s pesos, of 28,374 pesos a month.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 5:31 pm
karah, re: how government decisions are made. it’s a function of how our culture works. we’re a gregarious culture, everything is personal, and people seem allergic to having to read memos, much less put things down or writing. in business multimillion peso deals are reached on a mere handshake, in politics, policies can be arrived at simply over a phone call or in a huddle during a meeting, etc.
the telephone makes this easier: no paperwork or the paperwork is ex post facto and never tells the full story.
some presidents, like fvr and gma, positively glory in the paperwork, they love getting reports, spend time on them, read them, make marginal notations, and then everyone runs around to implement the marginal notes until the marginal notes contradict each other -at which points everyone runs to the president to referee the conflicting instructions, it’s one way the power game is played.
others are allergic to paper and just give verbal instructions, which may or may not even be specific. a nod, a shrug, a wave of the hand can communicate as much as an entire executive order.
i did propose some formal policy on not only presidential papers, but memorabilia, including gifts, but it got bogged down in who would keep the inventory, and what is classified as what, who gets to keep what and the basic reality that archiving and record keeping aren’t really priorities of most administrations, for budgetary and other reasons. so, it never got anywhere.
when i proposed that the marcos papers, moldering away in boxes in a government warehouse, be sent to the national library, the pcgg intervened and said they were evidence. so why not keep the documentary evidence but release the rest, i counterproposed. ah, but no thorough inventory had been made, no staff, budget…. so there you go. aqlso, keeping a former president’s papers in private hands enables a measure of control that for example, our family doesn’t have (my grandfather donated his papers to the government according to a will he signed as he was about to go into exile, so he didn’t know if he’d ever see his papers again, and for that i’ve always been proud, it was an act of someone unafraid of history, as historians have skewered him for things they’ve found in his papers, for example). but generally you will find the roxas, laurel, magsaysay foundations very welcoming of researchers, the quirino papers are in the filipinas heritage library, i understand the garcia papers are in up, the diosdado macapagal papers are due to go to ust, and gma intends her presidential papers to end up in the ateneo de manila, cory aquino has a pretty well set up library in tarlac, and fvr has his stuff in alabang.
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:04 pm
MLQ3: It’s TRUE that CULTURE (may it be in governance, in business, in politics, academe, et al) plays a big role on how an ORGANIZATION makes its DECISIONS, ARRANGEMENTS and AGREEMENTS from a whole spectrum of issues. Yes, you can say that Filipinos are a “personalistic” bunch. What makes me wonder is each time a new President sits, there seems to be a constant OVERHAUL of how they do things even on the “clerical level.” There’s no continuity. Is this a BOON or a BANE? This made me remember that most agreements re: “land and property” among family, among relatives, even among friends are reached by “word of honor” but when things go awry, then the Court find it difficult to obtain DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE because it simply isn’t there (things like Lease Agreements, Deed of Sale, etc).
I do see the wisdom in PROPER DOCUMENTATION and ARCHIVING not only for the sake of it but for purposes of Research, purposes of Reference, purposes of how things work (somewhat benchmarks for each Administration). And as you’ve said, this is non-existent even in the Palace. By any chance have you studied on how other Nations came up with systems of Documentation and Archiving. This is one interesting topic to delve into. What are the pros and cons. What were the impact of having good archives vis a vis having nothing. Ah, quite recently, I have seen in the News that Police Blotters just gather dust somewhere until they rot. Again, no proper archiving.
I guess these details are not as important for some people that the ones presently calling the shots in Malacanang. Either it’s not in their priorities or simply they don’t care to look at the benefits of your suggestions re: Presidential Papers, Memorabilia, Gifts, and other matter that might have importance for some but others would shrug it as “simply irrelevant.” I don’t think that a good documentation and archiving system won’t cost much (maybe the initial investment would) but there’s a lot of wastage in the Budget anyways.
You see, the Marcos papers are – as you said – “moldering away in boxes” and yet when a good suggestion comes, it is frowned upon. All the excuses are there, I suppose. To a certain degree, Presidential Papers in the hands of their families would be taked cared of better knowning how the Palace takes care of its own Documents. If I may ask, those Presidential Papers that your Grandfather donated to the State, where are they now? Are they still intact?
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:32 pm
what happenes is that, when a good idea (never mind brilliant) is proposed, it is immediately laughed at and pointed out as either not feasible, or too idealistic. people in government are simply too cynical and would rather prefer the easy way or the things they’ve already been used to, than GOOD CHANGE.
that’s why a good president has to be both bull headed, yet open to people with good ideas.
DevilsAdvc8 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:34 pm
i think its a cultural trait – the can’t do attitude.
a brilliant idea is proposed, immediately shot down.
that’s why can-do leaders are needed.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 6:48 pm
cjv, if you only had to read one, read the one on the social and political thought… etc.
and if you read only one book on the phil revo, read mabini’s slim volume on the phil revolution, the entire thing is on line, anyway.
more than rizal or anyone else, mabini had all the answers and identified all the problems. he’s the missing link between the revolution and the campaign for independence during the american era.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:17 pm
karah, re: quezon papers, what i know is this. during the war, president laurel very carefully took care of them, but in 1943, i believe, there was a huge flood in manila and so, some water damage.
the amazing thing is despite hardly any resources, the national library has done its best to take care of them, just as nhi has done a pretty good job preserving his official gifts, which are on display in the quezon memorial.
there has been some looting of the papers, first, during liberation when american gi’s carted off some things and others got filched for whatever reason in the general confusion.
other items i beleive, were filched (allegedly) by researchers paid by people to remove incriminating/embarrassing documents.
others have crumbled due to age, silverfishes, cockroaches, termites, etc.
on the whole though, our underpaid, overworked, understaffed people at the national library and national archives never get the thanks they deserve.
one historian spent a lifetime organizing the quezon papers, then there was an earthquake, the boxes tumbled down, and the past 20 years have been spent trying to put them in some order again.
there are private collectors with caches of quezon papers, ranging from personal correspondence to official papers and other records, from time to time they surface at auctions (all i could afford was once, i bought one of my aunt’s report cards, another time, one page of medical records; someone wanted to sell me a letter from mlq to his wife, but in the end i managed to beg for a xerox copy).
my understanding is that the laurel and magsaysay and roxas papers (first kept in up then finally in the hands of the roxas foundation) are excellently preserved and organized. the quirino papers aren’t extensive but in the filipinas heritage library, i understand in the last years of his life, macapagal organized his papers.
periodically, government offices purge their records. we were recently given the complete file of the settlement of the estate of mlq, by the supreme court, and it’s how i found out he’d accomplished his last will and testament in bukidnon prior to the final flight into exile to australia. eventually, we’ll be depositing this file with whatever other papers we happen to have, with UST (mlq was an alumnus) so that historians can have a chance to look at mlq’s financial records.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:25 pm
CaT:
your comment re salaries, etc. reminds me of something the late jose romero wrote. he’d been an assemblyman and was active in politics and later represented the sugar lobby. one criticism he had of his fellow politicians was that the system of congressional allowances didn’t exist before the war. it was invented after ww2 at the same time that the congress, which hadn’t held sessions during 41-45 (due to the occupation) voted themselves back wages for the years they technically held office but didn’t meet (although some sat in the national assembly of the 2nd republic and so, had salaries). romero said there was a very human reason: everyone, rich or poor, was wiped out by the war, people didn’t even have clothes, but he said it established a bad precedent that just worse and worse, and saved congressmen having to ask to raise their salaries, because they could just compensate themselves through allowances.
karah on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 7:35 pm
MLQ3 Thanks for all the information. These papers/documents/stuff have “historical values.” It’s good to note that a good number of these papers from various past presidents can be accessed by private citizens (mostly out of curiosity). The last time I set my foot at the National Library was like 6-7 years ago and I was still a kid that time (a teen). It’s quite consoling to know that there are some Government Agencies/Institutions that amidst their “budgetary constraints”, they do the extra mile to do their jobs.
Although I am interested in History myself not as in-depth as you are. It gives me some idea and maybe allot some of my spare time delving more into some “historical topics” you have put forward in the course of our interface.
I’ll hang out in this Article for now because there’s a “ghost” stalking me in the other Article. Maybe he’s the twin brother of Harry Potter.
The Ca t on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 9:39 pm
Mlq3,
The budgets for their office operating expenses, research staff and other expenses should not go to their pockets. That’s not their allowances to keep and spend.
And with the check and balance in the government accounting auditing systems, they could not disburse the budget without the necessary back-up documents. Thus ghost expenses, ghost employees are not supernatural in their offices.
The allowances that they can enjoy personally are government-issued vehicle with free gasoline allowance every month, a paid driver and bodyguard or tagadala ng attache case, tagabukas ng pinto at tagadala ng payong.
If these public servants can be honest to themselvs of admitting that these vehicles are never used by their wives in shopping or their children in going to parties, then they have the moral ascendancy to check on their corrupt peers in the government.
Corruption is not only receiving money in exchange of a favor but it is also misusing government properties.
mlq3 on Wed, 3rd Oct 2007 10:05 pm
cAt, personally, for example, I’m in favor of those low number plates: Car. No 1, No. 7, etc. mainly because when you see such a car, you know who is in it and where they’re going. same reason media people have press passes, you have to identify the outfit you work for and why every policeman has to display a patch with their name on it.
what i don’t get is college students using congressional plates and no one complains, the schools allow it, etc. i mean, this is where the authorities can step in.