Tag Fiesta

Janette Toral on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 1:34 pm 



Hi Manolo. Please don’t forget to post a comment at
http://digitalfilipino.blogspot.com/2007/05/top-10-emerging-influential-blogs-in.html
to register your entry for inclusion in our final update today.

Thank you!

Rico on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 2:11 pm 



Thanks for the support Manolo! We (or at least I) really appreciate it.

mlq3 on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 2:16 pm 



rico, it’s one of the most brilliant ideas you, connie, and the others have had.

cvj on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 2:20 pm 



Manolo, thanks for including me on the list! BTW, i was thinking of tagging you (c/o Sparks) but i see that you already have your share.

DJB on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 3:15 pm 



Yet another beauty contest, Manolo? (You know my sentiments.) Congratulations to the clever pageant organizers.

mlq3 on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 3:21 pm 



djb, it’s one of janette toral’s nifty little win cash and boost everyone’s readership schemes.

Janette Toral on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 5:40 pm 



Hi MLQ3. Thank you for the support. I noticed that CAFFiend and Placeholder started before August 2006.

Thank you for joining!

DJB on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 6:00 pm 



did you guys hear what INDAY VARONA ESPINA told Cheche Lazaro on Media in Focus: “Some blogs may be brilliant, but they are still SELF-INDULGENT exercises.”

Hehe! so which blogger are we mlq3, brilliant and/or self-indulgent.

As for Vergel O. Santos he insists that bloggers are NOT journalists.

i should say not! been there and done that working for some secret mogul and acting journalistic, as long as you avoid the sacred cows.

EVOLVE or PERISH!

benj on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 6:55 pm 



Are you going on Wednesday

BrianB on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 9:59 pm 



1. About the Sakadas and Hacendado. I don’t know why the haciendero was so proud showing off the homes of former sakadas. Did he think he had anything to do with those people’s successes. They were all OFWs. Get it? O… F… Dubyas… It’s not as if the sons of former sakadas became hacienda CEOs. Funny way of being proud.

2. I bet they all wanted to work abroad.

3. It’s possible when you’ve finally learned to patronize your “lessers” like a true-blooded mestizo. (Not talking about MLQ3 in particular).

BrianB on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 10:02 pm 



DJB

Blogging has more in common with lifestyle or the backend of newspapers than the front end. As a tech blogger, we get more traffic on rumors than on hard facts. Rumor mongering is the life blood of blogging.

Mike on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 10:10 pm 



Sir, thank you so much. Words cannot express – then why am I saying this? haha.

Anyway, we both share 3, 5, and most especially 6. i even glance at side mirrors when the car is about to swerve or turn.

The Magnificent on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 10:19 pm 



Wow, thank you for the tag link, but honestly, I feel sorry for whoever has been influenced by my blogs, if there are any. Hehehe. My entries are all attacks on common sense and logic.

Rom on Sat, 28th Jul 2007 10:53 pm 



mlq3: *blush-blush* thanks

Bencard on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 12:18 am 



as a “free market of ideas”, i think the Blog is far superior than the mainstream media, i.e., print, radio & tv.

whereas a “free wheeling” debate” (to borrow a phrase from watchful eye in a previous tread), constrained only by the laws on libel and national security, is actually a natural component of blogging, such is not possible in the traditional media where space and time limitations, editorial policies, biases, private agenda of its owners and publishers, greed, and delusions of power and importance, make it a not-so-effective vehicle for free speech and expression vis a vis the common man.

the beauty of blogging is that ideas, opinions, points of view, prejudices, preferences and versions of truth, can be expressed by anyone (subject to minimum restraints mentioned), but can be challenged, refuted and exposed for any fallacy instantaneously by others. the reader is thus given all four dimensions of an issue which enable him to reach his own verdict.

in the abs-cbn show “media focus”, mentioned above by djb, the male guest (who, i remember, advocates absolute freedom of the press in previous interviews) denies bloggers the status of “journalists”, perhaps because bloggers are not paid by big business. the other guest describes bloggers as “self-indulgent” whatever she means by that. at any rate bloggers, as a general rule, have a need to be careful and responsible for their comments because they know that, as sure as night follows day, their statements will be subjected to critical scrutiny by their readers. in contrast, mainstream media commentators are almost totally impervious to criticism because, most of the time, contrary views don’t see the light of day in their outlet, purportedly due to editorial constraints.

grd on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 1:40 am 



“the beauty of blogging is that ideas, opinions, points of view, prejudices, preferences and versions of truth, can be expressed by anyone (subject to minimum restraints mentioned), but can be challenged, refuted and exposed for any fallacy instantaneously by others. the reader is thus given all four dimensions of an issue which enable him to reach his own verdict.”

you think so Bencard? maybe you’re talking of Manolo’s blog but try visiting ellen tordecillas’, give your opinions, prejudices and versions of truth then see what happens. or maybe you can just ask DJB about his personal expererience there.

I tend to agree more with Inday Varona’s take and of that guy Vergel santos.

DJB on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 2:11 am 



grd,

lots of people go to ellen tordesillas blog for “scream therapy”. IMO there is nothing wrong with that. It’s a blog after all and what makes it different is she couldn’t do that on ABSCBN News or the Malaya website coz they just don’t quite get it yet do they. But they’ll get there. They always end up following what happens in the US for some reason. There of course, the industry saw the handwriting on the newsprint just in the last few years, but if you look, newspapers are becoming more like giant blog sites than the other way around.

Hard to believe right now that newspapers as they are are on the way out. But when was the last time you actually saw telephone poles being put up?

I have a friend in that industry and he says, they just woke up one morning and their business had simply vanished because of the celphone phenomenon.

Blogging spells not the literal end of mainstream journalism. Not at all. Someone’s gotta print the supermarket ads and cellphone promos. But bloggerdom does represent the most potent challenge to journalism’s opinionating and editorializing. The main stream media is fast losing the “Voice of Omniscience and Authority” that they used to have.

Things are changing right under their feet. They don’t even see it–judging by the charmingly defensive remarks of the two on Cheche’s show.

What I found mildly disgusting though was the pair’s hypocritical claims for the journalistic profession as if it isn’t the cesspool of corruption and compromise many know it to be.

Frankly the Media, pound for pound, is just as corrupt as government, with whom they live in symbiosis. I think they are in fact a part of governance, having insinuated themselves into every interstice of social and political life, and exploit every single niche and habitat in the service of politicians, companies and all sorts of personal and organized interests.

When you are working for a big newspaper, you’re working for some big corporate interest, even if you don’t know it. Usually, this is not corporation like the New York Times or Wall Street Journal are corporations and institutions. Most of the local outfits are really family owned businesses, or closely held private enterprises.

I am not approving of the murders of journalists–these are crimes to be prosecuted. But some of those who were killed were not exactly lily white, they were in in “biznez” and often in this country things turn so sour it can get you killed. But Vergel O Santos and Inday Varona were trying very hard to make it seem that these deaths of journalists are “political killings”. They are trying to take a page out of karapatan’s list-making.

Bencard on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 3:42 am 



then those types of blogger have no place in the blogsphere and will not last long. who is interested in their soliloquies or monologues? that’s why a lot of them are “nilalangaw”, right?

i think most blogs are sincere in their invitation to “post a comment”, just like mlq3’s.

watchful eye on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:16 am 



Bencard, ur comment (Jul 29, 2007 at12:18 am) is one of the most sensible you made here. Actually, the idea of “freewheeling debate” has been derived from this post –

Blogging may be defined as an ancient liberty in a time warp.

But first, it may be well to know that there are two ancient liberties that are equated with democracy: 1) the liberty to rule and be ruled in turn, and 2) the liberty to live as one chooses. The first is also the liberty of an individual to share with others the right to run the government (political equality) and the second is the liberty to be free from the interference by such government and others (negative liberty or, sometimes, the “freedom from interference”).

In Athens during Aristotle’s times, there was no distinction between public and private sphere or bewteen state and society where each citizen found ultimate fulfillment in public debate and politics. Direct and active participation in self-government (both legislative and judicial) was the end goal of citizenship.

Athenian democracy, now known as direct democracy, was where most Athenians served as a public official at least once during their life time; hence, to conceive of a form of representative government as practiced today was problematic for them. However, there was one essential condition for direct democracy to function well: the citizens must have enough free time to engage in public talk and participate in public administration. The convenience of slave economy (and the exclusion of women) freed up time for ancient citizens to carry those duties.

In the absence of a constitutional framework, demagoguery in Athens unfortunately allowed the occurrence of democratic tyranny (tyranny of the majority) which, for one, endangered negative liberty (the liberty to live as one chooses). Plato, the quintessential elitist, thought that strict political equality – accorded to those who were neither experienced nor knowledgeable about public affairs – sidelined the wise. The philosopher also believed that both notions of liberty (political equality and negative liberty) were inconsistent with the maintenance of order and stability. Plato’s worries were apparently resolved by the latter-day constitutional and representative democracy.

Moving fast-forward, blogging may essentially be classified into public and private electronic discourses (also exercised now by hybrid-citizens with increasing frequency). The public discourse is more closely related to political equality exercised in the realm of deliberative democracy and the private talk to negative liberty plied in the marketplace of ideas.

In a deliberative democracy, participants dialogue, reason out and then, transcending the initial conflict, DECIDE or VOTE to attain the common good; it is a counterweight to the old-fashioned policymaking. In the marketplace of ideas, participants, skirting the intervention of traditional media, disseminate ideas and information and directly compete for audience (readers, customers, critics, peers, leaders or policymakers) who BUY or TUNE OUT; it is a counterweight to the conventional media.

When blogging takes the form of free expression so exercised in the realm of deliberative democracy, it occupies the highest rung in the hierarchy of democratic and constitutional values involving as it does the sharing of sovereign authority. This so-called public liberty ordinarily trumps negative liberty for the simple reason that the individual is less than the community. – by Abe N. Margallo

Manila Bay Watch on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:19 am 



Bencard,

grd here may have misled you! Ellen’s blog is in no way “nilalangaw”.

Hardly the truth.

Ellen’s blog is anti-Gloria through and through and those who are pro-Gloria or who believe that posters there (who include yours truly) are left-wing, NPA sympathizers or commies had better change tune before they start spewing pro-Gloria rhetorics or branding folks who comment there as NPA sympathizers, islamofanatics, etc.

Ellen has long laid down the rules of engagement in her blog. Those who cannot respect her rules are free not to join and not to post comment. Nothing wrong with that.

Needless to say, Ellen’s right to publish her thoughts, comments and whatever opinion in her blog, on which posters comment, who, btw, are far from being “idiots” as some people would like to think, is covered by the Bill of Rights.

I hope this clears up matter. And to grd, I suggest you be more judicious with your remarks about a fellow blogger of Ellen’s stature!

Bencard on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:34 am 



watchful eye: kudos to abe and thanks for the excerpt.

vic on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:49 am 



Been blogging and commenting for over a year now (actually I developed a tendinitis on my right thumb as the result) and experienced all kind of Bloggers.

Some would blog to tell the world of their biases and prejudice and that is not a problem as long as they are within the limitations of the expression of thoughts. Some would invite some outside knowledge to re-enforce his or her own ( free ) and some would even do it for scamming and frauds, as I already experienced and been warned by some friends who had been victimized…

But altogether it is good exercise of our Freedom of Expression and also to impart the realities in our parts of the world through our own experiences and observations and hoping that we also learn from others and to keep an open mind as we, no matter how smart we think we are, we can always learn from others’ ideas and thoughts. Great Nations were not built by one smart individual, but collectively by efforts of all well-meaning subjects…

reyna elena on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 8:53 am 



hey MLQ3,

i know i owe you quite a lot for tagging me all the time and grab some of what i write in my blog. lately, i have seen some of your visitors becoming a reqular on my blog – so yeah, that pretty much says how influential your blog is (hmmm and why is it not on the list? should we call a recount?!)

so, all i can say is – merci beaucoup monsieur! hope to meet you in person when i go home to visit my turd world kawntri!

rego on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 10:56 am 



I only visited ellen blogs once, and after scanning some comments and exchanges. I never bother to go through with it. And never visited that blog again. Its not just for me.

I actually discovered blogging by accident last year. I dont even know there is such a thing as blogging already. And I dont know exactly what it means. I remember I just click something in Inquirer that lead me to to PCIJ during the garci scandal. I joined the discussion pronto. And I was so shocked that I was easilly branded as malacanang lackey, paid hacks…etc etc. I did engaged in such a very lengthy debate. I even went to on to publish my cellphone and challenges everyone who are in NYC or visiting nYC that I am willing to met them show them what I am doing to prove that i have no connection to malacang at all….( Remember this Vic?) Anyway I just got tired of the heated excanges in PCIJ and I feel its not really worth my time deabting with those in that blog anymore. So I ask Mita of any other blog site. And that leads me to Manolos. I stayed for good.

I was just wondering what happend to PCIJ blog. It like its no longer that popular anymore. I check the site once last Mrch and it was already desserted. I check it again while writing this and almost all the articles have zero comments. What happened?

I wonder where are my adversaries in that site now. Where is jrlad now? (sya yung naghari hariang maton doon dati) . And that guy 3zz-fe I really wish we can exhange ideas again. And Im sure it woudl be better this.

Nalulungkot din ako kahit papano sa nangyari sa PCIJ….

rego on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 10:59 am 



Watchful eye,

Thank you so much about that for that posting article by Abe.

rego on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 11:13 am 



Manolo,

Marming salamat din sayo for accomodating people like me who always disagree with you. Mag iisang taon na rin pala ako dito sa blog mo . I enjoyed it so much.

BTW is why am planning to put up my own blog too. But I will not be doing politics and punditry though. It will be dealing mostly on Materials science and in its applications to different fields. And on my passion on designs and architecture. I will try very hard to inject my provenance there. But i still dont know how. the main purpose is actually to reach out to my clients and business associates and colleagues.

mlq3 on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 11:56 am 



bencard, i agree with you absolutely concerning your views on the advantages of blogging.

rego, we may often disagree but there are times we also agree, or, we help each other sharpen our thinking. so at the very least we’re always making improvements.

i hope you pursue your blogging! it would be neat to learn about materials science and it might inspire students to take it up, and make it their field of interest.

PTT on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 12:17 pm 



In regards to Ellen’s Blog, it is just an anti Gloria blog and nothing more. Any opinion that implies anything else, will get you branded as a paid hacker. The conspiracy theories do get amusing and I think the reason why Ellen’s blog is so popular is because of the characters on that site. I find myself really hating these characters but at the same time keep coming back for more. Ystakei for example is a regular on that blog. She will always claim to be better than everybody else, she’s half japanese, half british, half this and half that, a better breed according to her. Everytime she comments it would always be about her, her japanese citizenship, Japan, her wealth, connections, education, morals, religion, and by the way, she say’s there really was no sexual slavery in WW2 because our grandmothers except for hers really prostituted themselves during the time. I can go on and on. I really hate her guts and can picture her as a fat, ugly, oldmaid. I do have to admit that she’s the reason why I lurk on that site. I just love to hate her. This is probably the reason why Ellen has a successful blog.

vic on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 1:50 pm 



rego,
yeah i remember it quite so well. that was where i started commenting too after being led during the Garci scandal and also where my loyalties and allegiance were questioned and i believe i stood my ground and now it is part of my day to browse all over the sites. still visit pcij and the postings are still very interesting and imformative. even have fun exchanging views with the sassy lawyer…

grd on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 2:45 pm 



Hahaha. You got it PTT. We share the same feelings specially with that “fat, ugly, oldmaid.

DJB, that’s what I thought about that blog too. It’s really a “scream therapy” for others. What with those labeling, cursing and conspiracy theories. I find it a good propaganda machine too against GMA and her cohorts with those unwitting regulars always in unison with what the author writes. A dissenter usually got banned and opposing opinions getting deleted.

MBW, I’m not misleading Bencard here into thinking that the blog of ellen is “nilalangaw” as what you readily concluded (a common trait you share with your fellow ellenville regulars and as what PTT just posted above). Again, reflect on what I have quoted on Bencard’s previous comment. I meant it’s not what he always thinks about blogging. It has it’s ugliness too. Judicious? Huh, look who’s talking. At least, you’re discreet here.

Bokyo on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 3:09 pm 



The sooner they stop being solidly pro-GMA and solidly anti-GMA the better the disucssion gets.

What I am happy about blogging is that there are now a lot of teachers getting into it. And what’s amusing is that some readily accept that they learn this through their students and they learn some things from their students.

john marzan on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 3:44 pm 



“the beauty of blogging is that ideas, opinions, points of view, prejudices, preferences and versions of truth, can be expressed by anyone (subject to minimum restraints mentioned), but can be challenged, refuted and exposed for any fallacy instantaneously by others. the reader is thus given all four dimensions of an issue which enable him to reach his own verdict.”

you think so Bencard? maybe you’re talking of Manolo’s blog but try visiting ellen tordecillas’, give your opinions, prejudices and versions of truth then see what happens. or maybe you can just ask DJB about his personal expererience there.

also ask him about his experiences with sassy’s site.

john marzan on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:06 pm 



DJB, that’s what I thought about that blog too. It’s really a “scream therapy” for others. What with those labeling, cursing and conspiracy theories. I find it a good propaganda machine too against GMA and her cohorts with those unwitting regulars always in unison with what the author writes. A dissenter usually got banned and opposing opinions getting deleted.

well, she usually bans trolls and flamers. the pro-arroyo idiots usually make trouble there. people like “anthony scalia” and “proudtobepinoy.” good riddance to them.

(re djb, he usually disagrees with the contents of ellen’s blog, but i don’t think he’s banned there. djb now calls himself godsavedtheconstitution or something over there tho)

and re banning, karapatan nya yan. there’s nothing wrong with it. sassy does it from time to time.

many big name bloggers moderate their comments too. kung hindi lumabas ang comment mo, pasensiya ka na lang.

grd on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:22 pm 



it really doesn’t matter john, it could be ellen’s or sassy lawyer’s blog. what i’m trying to disprove to Bencard is his notion that all blogs are the same. as what Bokyo said, “The sooner they stop being solidly pro-GMA and solidly anti-GMA the better the disucssion gets.”

patsadakarajaw on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:27 pm 



hi manolo, thank you for nominating my small blog from a remote corner in this country.

I have been missing your tag for quite sometime and I am just happy that you consider as one of the “influential” or “emerging” blogs today.

Thank you very much. But for me your blog is the most influential because without your tags people will not be visiting my blog that much.

More power! Your my number 1!!!

grd on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 4:27 pm 



“the pro-arroyo idiots usually make trouble there…”

and what about the anti-arroyo idiots? they cannot identify who’s pro-gloria and who are the moderates? if you’re not anti-gloria then you’re a paid hack?

john marzan on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 5:30 pm 



and what about the anti-arroyo idiots? they cannot identify who’s pro-gloria and who are the moderates? if you’re not anti-gloria then you’re a paid hack?

my advice to the trouble makers is to go to sassy’s site na lang or a site that is “more hospitable” to your views. wag na kayong manggulo.

o gumawa na lang kayo ng blog nyo.

as for the moderates, guys like djb will not be banned in ellen’s site, unlike his experience with another big name blogger (knowhatimsayin?)

john marzan on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 6:00 pm 



I really hate her guts and can picture her as a fat, ugly, oldmaid. I do have to admit that she’s the reason why I lurk on that site. I just love to hate her. This is probably the reason why Ellen has a successful blog.

life is too short to be going to sites whose members and views you HATE, PTT.

katulad ko, i don’t don’t waste my time going to sites whose bloggers i don’t respect or find credible anymore. i mean, who wants to be called a “paid hacker” hindi ba?

unless of course, may binabalak ka…

BrianB on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 6:05 pm 



Becard: “in the abs-cbn show “media focus”, mentioned above by djb, the male guest (who, i remember, advocates absolute freedom of the press in previous interviews) denies bloggers the status of “journalists”, perhaps because bloggers are not paid by big business. the other guest describes bloggers as “self-indulgent” whatever she means by that.”

To solve the problem of self-indulgence we only need to engage in the practice of peer review. On the Web, peer review is well-nigh impossible, of course, but it does exist. Unprofessional bloggers are ignored. Check their technorati ranking and even after a couple years of blogging, barely anyone is linking to them. Professional bloggers or bloggers worth people’s time get linked very often. Inday Espina probably has little knowledge of the culture of permalinks and link backs. For example quezon.ph has a technorati ranking of just under 12k and an authority of 342, while Bryanboy.com “Le Superstar Fabuleux has a ranking of 3.5k and authority of 752. In my book, Bryanboy is less self-indulgent than Quezon.ph

BrianB on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 6:12 pm 



As for Athenian democracy, all we hear are preserved speeches. There’s no way of telling whether the people are truly happy and free. The poets, philosophers public officials and successful merchants are free to say what they want but I heard in Ancient Athens if you have brown skin, come from a poor family and have no connections but are brave enough to speak your mind, you are quickly labeled a commie and your balls get cut off.

PTT on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 6:59 pm 



John Marzan

Like I said, the reason why I keep coming back to lurk on that site is because I love to hate the characters in that blog. Another way to put it is, it’s like watching a soap opera and being hooked on it because of the personality of an evil character. I don’t “Hate” their political views and opinions. If I was to smash a baseball bat on ystakei face for example, it’s not because she’s anti-gloria or anything. I could not care less. It would be just because her character wether real or not, portrays a self absorbed old hag who thinks she can impress everybody and look at herself to be better than anybody else. Because of her irritable character, I actually Love reading her comments. As far as paid hacks, I don’t think hackers will waste their time putting in comments on a blog instead of actually working on shutting a website down.

DJB on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 7:29 pm 



Folks,

We always learn the most from those who disagree with us. That is why it is the disagreements and differing point of views one encounters on blogs that is truly refreshing and new.

Contrast that with Star, Bulletin, or PDI. You sort of know what to expect from the pundits on each newspaper. Though they pride themselves in independence of thought and the freedom to choose what topics to write about, they only start out being different or unique from each other. After a while they learn what the forbidden subjects are, and a kind of pecking order thingy imposes a sort of discipline, especially on the younger writers about what is correct. The latter after a while begin to take on the characteristics of the herd, or they move on.

A mainstream newspaper is primarily an economic enterprise for profit. It cannot be otherwise because the Gutenberg technology they are using requires such expense and capital. And I have estimated that the daily print run of PDI+Stat+Bulletin is the equivalent of a small forest of 500 trees. Daily! No wonder they are such great pro-environementalists and stroke the likes of Lory Tan and Greenpeace with lots and lots of free space. Tee Hee!

Bloggers—we are all beneficiaries of the geniuses of Silicon Valley and Redmond and CERN. I still don’t pay a single cent for Philippine Commentary, yet there are 2,000 posts if you count the old site!

That is why I don’t have to kowtow to or be awed by anyone. And vice versa.

Here it is a pure, democratic struggle among ideas.

the sites na nilalangaw are the ones where the ideas are weak, stale, or just not popular. Or they are just recycling stuff they read that day. But even many highly popular sites are really just trash. Like most porno–said to 75% of the internet!

It is when you have ideas that GO VIRAL, when they become MEMES, that things get interesting. When does an idea become a meme? When does a BLOG become a meme?

Answer: after it has won over at least one brain.

BTW, I shall divulge a secret: on my blog I only write for ONE PERSON: self-indulgent ME, my harshest critic and greatest fan.

I do all my messing around on other people’s comment threads, where I get a lot of ideas for just what to write about.

luzviminda on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 7:36 pm 



Re: ellentordesillas’ website,

Well, some people(pro-arroyo) doesn’t like the said site because it is truly an anti-arroyo blogsite. Yeah, call it a ’scream theraphy’ because it is one way of voicing frustrations in this bogus government of Gloria. Kung nasosopla ang isang blogger dahil pro-arroyo, he can answerback or better yet, better find one that suits him. But it is no question that Ellen’s is the most popular, as evidenced by the numerous responses in EVERY topic.

BrianB on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 8:44 pm 



Meme? You have it upside down. Memes have little to do with being right. Memes are thoughts that have the best survivability. In other words they are popular. Of course, originality counts, i.e. if you started a meme then you are an original, as opposed to merely a meme propagator (e.g. recycler). Memes are not democratic. They are Darwinian. Which means that if you’re a talk show host then your possibility of propagating and introducing memes is higher compared to a nobody.

Thank goodness for cultural institutions like universities and book reviews where memes get sanitized and reason prevails.

bibz on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 9:05 pm 



luzviminda,
Ellen’s site usually gets numerous responses for every topic, but look at the people writing the comments; not too many but repetitive that it is becoming like a Chat Line among friends with like ideas and thoughts, instead of a healthy discourses and discussion of the posted topics by Ms Tordesillas. Of course it is anti-Arroyo site, and a few of of GMA defenders (not necessarily paid mercenaries) strayed and post their own defense which the host will always tolerate, but mostly others will “mob” to shreds. And of course, there is not much choice for some, but to find sites, like MLQ’s where even the protagonists can engaged in heated discussions, without resorting to personal attacks and suspicion of being a “malacanang stooge”.

Bencard on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 9:08 pm 



i think the days of the newspapers, as vehicle of free press that we know, are numbered. here in the u.s., a number of publications are having problems of readership, and therefore, revenue for their continued existence. i heard that both the new york times and the washington post, among other big-time print media outlets, are not doing as they used to. some like new york post have reduced their price to a few cents (.25), while a few others just give them away free to get some circulation and advertising.

even t.v. networks are no longer the invincible purveyors of the news and opinions that they used to be. they have to resort to a lot of gimmicks to attain respectable ratings, even to the extent of sprinkling their news reporting with considerable amount of “entertainment”.

blogging is definitely the emerging preferential medium for exchange of ideas and opinion, if not as a source of news and current-event information.

BrianB on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 9:50 pm 



Blogs don’t get too many readers. Ask MLQIII to reveal his google analytics. I bet he doesn’t get 200 readers a day.

justice league on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 10:05 pm 



Rego,

Sheila Coronel isn’t the only one who is highly admired in PCIJ.

But I think her leaving for a teaching job somewhere in New York slowly knocked the winds out of the organization.

justice league on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 10:10 pm 



I mean that the organization is not perceived to be as what it once was while she was still there hence probably the reaction of the people to discussing the materials there.

The Ca t on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 10:43 pm 



Blogs don’t get too many readers. Ask MLQIII to reveal his google analytics. I bet he doesn’t get 200 readers a day

My main blog gets at least 700 a day and viewership by the thousands. My other blogs average 300 a day and viewership also by the thousands. If your blog depends on the links you made, then it would not even reach 100.

mlq3 on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 10:54 pm 



brian, i actually checked google analytics, and it says I have never had a visitor, ever, to my blog.

my wordpress shortstat for today said 2,961 unique visitors for today, 9,617 hits for today. no clue what the difference is.

technorati says this blog ranks 11,811.

pajamas media bases its payments on nielsen/netratings reports. for the current month, its 22,373 impressions, 7,575 unique browsers, 11,128 user sessions. ave. page impressions: 1,491.53 while ave. unique browsers is 610.30 and ave. user sessions is 741.87.

alexa.com. which i believe is consulted by people to see the global rankings of a site, says traffic rank is 275,143. traffic rank, 1 week average: 143,906.

i don’t know if any of these figures are relevant to the point you wish to make.

cvj on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 11:04 pm 



As i’ve said before, i think Ellen’s blog has the pulse of the majority of Filipinos. That was proven by the results of the Senatorial elections especially in the case of Trillanes.

Abe N. Margallo on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 11:04 pm 



Some hold the view (I guess myself among them) that the so-called mainstream media is a weapon of mass destruction for PRIVATE tyranny – ergo, profit motive could only be secondary; when unleashed on a daily basis (thus the tag “dailies”), it is meant for total obliteration, to put it in some negative sense. The “positive” way of looking at it however is that, as the name implies, it is a media for mainstreaming thoughts or a weapon (tool) for mass reconstruction of adult minds – the way (yes, BrianB) “memes get sanitized and (uncritical) reason prevails” in the mass “education” of the young minds.

People – very intelligent people – who still think that tyranny relates only to POLITICAL power remain unsuspecting victims. So, if fed with materials that the country is going down the drain because of corrupt politicians, the gridlock in congress, the slothful and un-entrepreneurial Malay race, etc., and believing them as Gospel truth in our subconscious, we repeat them, then we are still naively oblivious of the radioactive in our system.

So politics is dirty, trapos are corrupt, the herd has fiesta mentality (per BenignO) and the constitution is skewed. But do we get a daily dose of criticisms about the economic elites being laggards in the region whose incompetence is keeping a third of our population at a dehumanizing impoverished state?

I also wrote this before:

On August 25, 2006, Nepomuceno A. Malaluan, economist, lawyer and trustee for Action for Economic Reforms reported on The Crisis of Income and Employment in the Philippines partly in reaction to the optimism of President Arrroyo’s SONA (State of the Nation Address) of 2005 and 2006. In 2005, Arroyo’s message: the Philippine economy is on the verge of take off; this year she claims she now has the funds to meet the government’s expenditure needs.

Malaluan’s analysis provides a different scenario: “The domestic problem in income and employment is of crisis proportions. Recognizing it is a crucial first step in addressing this crisis, similar to our experience with the fiscal crisis. The next step is to identify its root causes, and address them head on with emergency measures that are doable and can provide immediate and dramatic.”

Why is the banner about Charter change and not this crisis?

To begin with, the Malaluan study also finds that “as much as 52.5% of total market capitalization is controlled by the country’s top 10 families” whose lackadaisical competitiveness is at the heart of the crisis. Isn’t the same handful of families also in control of the media ownership in the Philippines today?

Now we know why the trapos (traditional politicians) as well as the Constitution get the beatings all the time. They don’t own newspapers and televisions.

So, methinks that while many of the ellenville habitués could be barking at the wrong tree, highly intelligent people like DJB needs to up his ante too.

On figurs, I subscribe to DJB’s philosophy. One Pinoy at a time.

reyna elena on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 11:23 pm 



Wow Cat,

My blog is not as popular or at least as influential as this of MLQ3, but I average roughly a little less than 200 except with the coming of the *sauna 2007 where i get over 1k visits and actually a lot of student readers! I might agree with you on the readership because most of these rankings and ratings are really based on visits – unique or what not. Meaning, I could see your point between the difference of visits and those who actually read. But given the number of comments that MLQ3 gets on his posting, I think it’s a fair assumption that he probably gets more than that.

I have a problem with google analytics though. Many months ago, google suspended my adsense account because there was a lunatic who clicked my adsense like insane i was earning an average of about $300 per day! can you imagine? obviously i did not get the money. now, i think they blocked my site on the crawl or whatever, my pagerank went from 6 to 3 and it never moved from there since i was banned forevah and the analytics they give me sometimes is funky because i compare the analytics they have with my host – bluehost as well as the free sitemeter and i have no freaking clue who’s telling the truth. but given the suspension i got, i ignore google analytics – worst, it slows down my site.

on ellen tordesillas, yeah, one could she’s a rabid anti-arroyo based on her blog articles, but you have to give her credit, for anyone who has a successful blog and is popular like her, you’d surely get some fanatics and those are the very people who regularly comments on her site. don’t think you can blame her for that, can you? pikon lang most of those guys there.

besides the fact that she’s offering the other winds of the spectrum and we need that so we could have some sense of comparison. it’s true sometimes, some of those regulars would just blatantly label you an arroyo clone should you disagree with them. heck, that’s them. but i still love reading her blog articles and i think she’s doing a great job i just don’t want to leave comments baka batuhin ako!

john marzan on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 11:55 pm 



Like I said, the reason why I keep coming back to lurk on that site is because I love to hate the characters in that blog. Another way to put it is, it’s like watching a soap opera and being hooked on it because of the personality of an evil character. I don’t “Hate” their political views and opinions. If I was to smash a baseball bat on ystakei face for example, it’s not because she’s anti-gloria or anything…

ah.. thanks for clarifying PTT, even though i don’t agree.

ako naman, hindi na ako masyadong napapapunta sa site niya, but for a different reason.

nawalan na ako ng gana masyado na pumunta sa blog ni ellen because of the trolls who frequented her site, trying to stir up trouble and instigate flame wars. it was easy to do so because her site is unmoderated. i’ve been complaining about this (GMA trolls) to ellen for the longest time (dapat kasi zero tolerance for trolls). ayaw niya kasi sa simula na mag-take action at i-ban ang mga iilang sa mga ito, kasi respetuhin raw natin ang karapatan ng kabilang panig na magsalita. pero ang problema ay iba ang agenda ng mga ibang maka-arroyo na trolls na nangugulo sa site niya eh.

it got so bad that many many of us who used to frequent her site and participate in the discussion got turned off by the “gulo” and fighting in her comments section.

another “lurker” here said na “dissenters” usually gets banned and his opinions deleted. HAH! that’s really funny. the problem with the way ellen handled her trolls was that she did not take control of her comments section quickly enough before it escalated into something uglier. if i were her, i would have banned the likes of “anthony scalia” and “proudtobepinoy” AKA MR. OFF TOPIC (and his numerous alteregos) a LONG TIME AGO. i don’t understand why she was lenient to them. all the personal attacks coming from the pro-arroyo alternics were really disgusting (lalo na noong palapit na ang election period).

pero hindi sila (pro-arroyos trolls) takot ma-ban dahil pwede naman silang gumawa ng bagong username eh, at trabaho nila ay manggulo, hindi mag-participate sa discussion.

grd complains about “getting banned” and having comments deleted. sa pagkakaalam ko, she doesn’t do it often (she doesn’t do it enough IMO) last resort na yan, kung talagang masama na ang sitwasyon. at AFAIK, hindi naman moderated ang comments section ni ellen eh, unlike sassy’s or bong austero’s. so if a troll wants to cause mayhem, it’s so easy.

guys who are “moderates” like djb (or godsavedconstitution… wink wink) are not banned dahil hindi naman troll si manong djb eh.

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 12:12 am 



oops, it’s not “proudtobepinoy”, but “hindinapinoy”.

grd on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 12:24 am 



“People – very intelligent people – who still think that tyranny relates only to POLITICAL power remain unsuspecting victims. So, if fed with materials that the country is going down the drain because of corrupt politicians, the gridlock in congress, the slothful and un-entrepreneurial Malay race, etc., and believing them as Gospel truth in our subconscious, we repeat them, then we are still naively oblivious of the radioactive in our system.”

Amen.

The Ca t on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 1:02 am 



reinz,
the comments are not measures of traffic because there are blogs which do not entertain comments because there is no need for one.

I do not even subscribe to alexa and other rankings since some of them can be faked.

Like a blog, I know, the value of the blog that he/she displays is more than a hundred thousand but if you check the real the worth, it is zero. They are just deceiving themselves.

There are high rankings in the technorati because of the links but those who got high ratings are mostly webdesigners who put codes in their templates. I checked one which is at the top. Her links are mostly her websites which just have one or two entries.

If you are after the income, the traffic is also irrelevant. There are websites which have high traffic but clicks are few. There are websites which show fake traffic too.

I do not know what influential means but if a blog gets 50 views only a day and mostly from the same links, I do not consider that influential.

PTT on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 1:06 am 



No problem John Marzan and I respect your opinion….I can not justify comments made by these “trolls” on Ellen’s blog but I think I know the reason why they come about versus the notion na “trabaho nila ang mangulo” I think these trolls that you mentioned are people that are just weak and can not distance themselves from the egotistic personalities of Ellen’s regular members. Intead of getting amused and even having a favorite member to hate like me, they put in comments to personally attack members hence the trouble and flame wars. This might be the very reason why it’s a popular blog.

Rom on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 1:33 am 



reynaelena:on the other hand, one of the keys to a successful blog is to have strong opinions, yes? no one likes a blog that always says, well, be fair (this one might be the exception, but then again, not all bloggers have the same credibility as mlq3, among other things because very few of us actually have public personas). Either hate something – and draw in everybody else who hates the same thing; or love it to bits, and be joined by everyone who feels as you do. that’s at least two things blogs have in common with traditional media: first, it’s hard to find a fair, middle-of-the-road blog; and second, one of the factors affecting the popularity of the blog is the popularity of the stance espoused by the blogger. but i’m sure everyone knows that already.

Bencard on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 2:19 am 



rom, i think it’s not so much as being “fair” or “middle of the road” as being tolerant of other people’s points of view. i know blog owners have a “right” to exclude anyone who oppose their opinion and enjoy “preaching to the choir”.
i also know that there are people who live vicariously through other’s intellect, not having the gift of understanding issues, and articulating their emotions and feelings. they are nothing but “followers”, cabooses, not engines.

in the “marketplace of ideas”, there is no room for exclusivity in this day ang age. the reason mlq3’s blog is strong and popular is because he can put up with “trolls” without compromising his own beliefs. tordesillas’ blog is one-dimensional and founded on antiquated notions of “tao-tayo” or atin-atin” lang. it will not last, or if it does, it will not grow, i think.

reyna elena on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 2:25 am 



hi rom: “reynaelena:on the other hand, one of the keys to a successful blog is to have strong opinions” DID I SAY THAT or you’re asking for my opinion?

in any case: well “successful blogs” is really dependent on what the goal of the blogger, meaning whatever is the blogger’s definition of success and it could be as varied as trying to reach out a number of similarly opinionated people, or getting as much traffic to increase page rank, etc., etch…

my personal take is that: i think it will actually be at your disadvantage to always take a very strong opinion on certain matters, else you not only alienate some of your avid fans but you’d be so out of focus that you won’t be able to maintain some semblance of balance in your blog. I do am aware of the fact that it could rather be very difficult at times to maintain some balance and that’s the challenge for some bloggers, i myself is guilty of this one as one reader had emailed me that sometimes my true color indeed comes out of my veins no matter how much i try to sorta put them in between my jokes.

this is the new medium, it’s like re-aligning people according to what they wanted to hear and for the most part, that’s what blog does, puts us in once column and it would be very difficult to find a blog that sorta caters to both, else, you’d lose the juice.

Bencard on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 2:25 am 



errata: opposes, not “oppose”; and age, not “ang age”.

reyna elena on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 2:31 am 



hey Cat,

i certainly agree with you that MAYBE, just MAYBE (coz am not tehno-geek) some of these ratings are like (heck i just blog about ratings agencies! hehehe) fake which is why to be safe I analyze three sources and look at the similarities and analyze the disparities. annoying as it is, but the reason why i subscribed to alexa is because i wanted to improve my pagerank and that;s how if found out that some things that i hope i;m wrong.

now, regarding the INFLUENTIAL, i essentially agree with you on this one, no pun intended to the originator of the idea, but i really believe it’s just a reinvented version of viral tagging, that’s all. but of course, we all know what’s influential – and i don’t get it really (not that i was not one of them) get it.

DJB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 7:35 am 



mlq3: Site statistics can be very tricky to interpret. NO doubt volume of visitors, however measured, and changes in that volume, are an impt measure of how good our weblogs are getting over time.

But I usually go by Google Page Rank as the most reliable and consistent measure over time. And by this I don’t mean Page Rank on your Home Page alone, but a kind of integrated Page Rank Metric that I’ve invented, just for blog hopping and doing TRUTH LAID BEAR kind of checking. If you really want to see how good a weblog is, check out (1) the Page Rank it gets for PAST posts; and (2) its search engine page placement for searches on topics in those past post titles.

The strongest sites have at least ONE search engine hit in which its post on that search topic is consistently #1 or #2 in a search that contains more than a million hits.

In a sense, the only opinion that matters for the long run growth and durability of a weblog, is that of Google and dominant search engines.

This I think has to do with the TOPOLOGY of the Web. Blogging is NOT broadcasting. It is not even narrowcasting because people have to ride a machine to your site to see it. It is more like putting up billboards in a jungle of a trillion other billboards.

Without the seekers, we are all lost as just so much background noise.

indoro ni emilie on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 8:00 am 



a measure of a worthy, quality blog is that it gets read by a loyal set of readers, not just passing viewers. we know who they are.

indoro ni emilie on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 8:04 am 



which means if a viewer happens to drop by your site for less than 2 minutes, chances are he or she is not reading your posts. just gauging how deep or inane or bloated your ego-boasting promotion that goes there.

BrianB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 8:35 am 



MLQIII,

“People – very intelligent people – who still think that tyranny relates only to POLITICAL power remain unsuspecting victims. So, if fed with materials that the country is going down the drain because of corrupt politicians, the gridlock in congress, the slothful and un-entrepreneurial Malay race, etc., and believing them as Gospel truth in our subconscious, we repeat them, then we are still naively oblivious of the radioactive in our system.”

1. Colonial mentality runs deep. We still think we’re the slaves of mestizos

2. slothful malays? Not true. Rather a business and political elite (Chinese, kastilas) that think Malays are not worth their cent to invest on. Malaysia is making their own automobile and cellphone brands. I believe much of this confidence comes from their pro-Malay laws. Compare that to Negros Occidental and Hacienda Luisita where even the supreme court can’t take back stolen land.

3. Land owned by mestizos should’ve been confiscated when the Spanish left. Filipinos will still feel like a conquered people when all these mestizos are still enjoying the fruits of Spanish oppression.

cocoy on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 8:55 am 



Hey you all techno-geek after reading you all, you are no difference with my neighbor epileptic daughter. Your yardstick don’t even measure up on Newton’s third law. Your instinctive mind is stained by the filth of evil instinct of jealousy and enviousness, without achieving anything.

I am a lurker at Ellen’ Blog and I see nothing that impaired my opinion to cause my blood pressure to boil, you may call it a scream therapy or whatever you began to compare yourselves with others, especially with the people who fly around the world, live in luxurious estates, drive BMWs and the ones who wine and dine in five-star hotels. In a way we are witness to the emerging thecno culture and everyone wants to be part of it. Of course, there is nothing wrong in having such thoughts and desires. In fact, these thoughts not merely widen our mental horizons but also help us to learn from others and improve wicked vision on our own lives. But the problem occurs when people want what they want in a split of second, a ridiculing culture in a crab mentality world.

The Ca t on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 9:06 am 



so if you sitemeter is full of Google, msn, yahoo searches, that means you have made it. If you are just visited by loyal followers, that means, your audience is limited to those who patronize you. If they spend an average of 5 minutes per visit, that means they are reading your blog. if your page views, that is they go to other pages averaged about 3 to 4 minutes, there’s a reason why they stay this long in your blog.If ask.com include you in their directory, they must be getting answers for the questions asked by the researchers. Why is there a need for comment just to feel that you are being read? The akismet can catch as many as a hundred spam in the comment box.

BrianB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 9:22 am 



Bah, you’re successful if you’re high on technorati.

MLQ3 why am I being moderated again?

BrianB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 9:22 am 



sorry, I meant Nah. Morning

DJB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 10:29 am 



CAT,
Everybody’s sitemeter is full of google and yahoo searches. Then there is the minority of what you call “loyal readers”. Those are the ones your memes are attractive to. but they usually start out as search engine arrivals from somewhere else. That’s the “topological” necessity of it:

NO BLOG IS AN ISLAND!

However, in the midst of all these beauty contests and ego-warmers, let us not forget that we are all wart-hogs.

reyna elena on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 10:49 am 



i like what indoro ni emilie said, that pretty much sums up what it is, but also, key is, consistency.

now on technorati, even that is funky because it’s based on your tags. so if you have the tagging plugin, instantly, most of those people will tag you, at least that’s what i noticed in my blog eversince i added the plugin. do they read my blog? hardly so, i have my own set of loyal followers.

i only get inundated by readers if i write something of interest to them and then they disappear.

i remember that viral tagging, i was inflicted by that stupid virus, but going back, i decided not to update the links because it’s a fake, i probably only gained a 0.00000001% of readers there that became a regular.

and i still don’t trust page rank, have no clue what kind of computations they do over there

at least my ever dependable sitemeter is validated by bluehost analytics

rego on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 11:07 am 



Yes Justice League , I also suspect sheila’s leaving PCIJ has contibuted to the current fate of PCIJ….But I also feel that a very hostile dicussion has turn-off a lot of people too.

And Im afraid the same thing will happen to Ellen’s blog.

benign0 on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 11:15 am 



=====
“And to grd, I suggest you be more judicious with your remarks about a fellow blogger of Ellen’s stature!”
=====

Ellen’s stature? Jeez. If that is our measure of blogging quality, then we as a community are in deeper trouble than we think we are in.

And, yes, Ellen banned me too, the same way Alecs Pabico (PCIJ) did.

=====
“my advice to the trouble makers is to go to sassy’s site na lang or a site that is “more hospitable” to your views. wag na kayong manggulo”
=====

“Manggugulo” is subject to interpretation now, isn’t it. The phrased you used “pro-Arroyo idiots” speaks volumes about your interpretation of what a “manggugulo” is.

One can learn a lot from participating in a jolog site like Ellen’s. For one thing, the views exchanged there are quite typical of underclass mentalities. If you wanna learn about masa thinking (which, in fact, characterises something like 90% of Pinoy thought), I suggest you lurk around there.

My take on the PCIJ blog is that at some point, it became apparent that it was becoming merely a publicity conduit for various “groups of interest”. Blog posts there at best merely surfed the tide of popular interest.

What finally got me banned was my continued expression of my beef about how — at a time when 1,300 Pinoy souls lost their lives in a mudslide in March 2006 — the PCIJ continued churning out politically-motivated story after another. In fact I cited a specific statistic – 2 mudslide stories out of 15 politically-motivated stories in a span of several weeks.

I documented some of it in here…

http://www.getrealphilippines.com/rant/rant00024.html

…and, subsequently got into a heated shoutbox dialog with Pabico himself which I documented here:

http://www.getrealphilippines.com/rant/rant00025.html

Funny enough, I also recall an exchange in the PCIJ with the eminent Patricio Abinales here…

http://www.getrealphilippines.com/rant/rant00006.html

… which, considering his credentials, I found to sound more like this “ystakei” character than a well-bred member of a prestigious thinktank.

My point is that excessive, hollow-headed partisanism is the common denominator across most of the stupidities we see in Pinoy society. It has a mind-numbing dumbing down effect on most people, from Tordesillas’s disciples up to the Abinales’s of this world.

rego on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 12:23 pm 



I just check ellen blog just this minute to find out if the good praises it got from some people is true.

Jeeezzzz, agree ako lahat sa sinabi ni Benigno….

And surprise surpise…. somebody is using my name in that blog and wrote the following..

———————————————–
rego Says:

July 25th, 2007 at 7:35 pm

“Uulitin ko: Hindi ako sagabal sa ambisyon ninuman.

But make no mistake. I will not stand idly when anyone gets in the way of the national interest and tries to block the national vision. From where I sit, I can tell you, a President is always as strong as she wants to be.

Pagpalain tayo ng Diyos at ang dakilang gawaing hinaharap natin. The state of the nation is strong. Inyong lingkod, Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, Pangulo ng Republika ng Pilipinas.”

patnubayan po kayo ng Mahal na Panginoon mahal naming Pangulo at ilagtas kayo sa kapahamakan laban sa mga taong naghahangad ng masama sa inyo sampu ng inyong pamilya. matupad sana ang minimithi ninyong kaularan ng bansa bago matapos ang inyong termino sa 2010.

——————————————————

woahh this is the kind of people that thrives in ellen blog.

hvrds on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 1:07 pm 



Oh my God even Habito has turned communists!!!!!!
Bring down the wrath of the Gods on him as he dared question the Gods of Olympus.

Unstable Equilibrium

By Cielito Habito
Inquirer
Last updated 00:00am (Mla time) 07/30/2007

“THE ECONOMY is doing well; we need to unite and sustain the gains, instead of rocking the boat and derailing the progress we are making.”

“We hear this statement a lot these days, mostly from Malacañang and business circles, so often in fact that some people now even question the patriotism of those who call attention to the wrongs being done in our midst.”

“Flaws
I have difficulty subscribing to this proposition, on two grounds: One, its premise is open to question, and two, looking the other way or closing our eyes to wrongdoing never makes for lasting stability–especially when there is just too much of such wrongdoing to be ignored. Ignoring them for the sake of “unity” and “stability” would only be promoting an unstable equilibrium (an oxymoron?).”

This is what worries me about accepting the proposition outright. I would hate to see our economy fall apart again and bring us even farther from the dream of First World status that all of us would like to see fulfilled. But we are risking precisely this if we fail to address the flaws in our current economic (not to mention political) directions, as embodied in policies, high-level decisions, presidential appointments and even specific government projects. We cannot afford not to point them out, publicly debate on their implications and collectively determine whatever superior options there may be available to us. There is a world of difference between constructive criticism and economic sabotage. Unfortunately, too many among us can’t seem to tell them apart.

Two out of three
Is the premise valid? There are positive trends in the data indeed, but can we truly and honestly say the economy is doing well? Who make up the economy anyway?

I keep saying that there are only three economic indicators that matter to the average Filipino: Presyo (prices), hanapbuhay (jobs and livelihood) and kita (incomes). Through my years in government, I saw how little patience most of my audiences had with statistics on fiscal and external balances, interest rates, price-equity ratios, stock market indices and bond spreads, and other data that only financial analysts and maybe CEOs would stay awake for.

On this basis, I had been characterizing our overall economic performance until recently by saying “Two out of three ain’t bad”–referring to the way inflation has been low and GDP (that is, output and income) growth has been respectable, while the jobs situation has been worsening.

Weaknesses within
Lately, all three are showing positive movement, which is welcome news indeed. But as I have recently pointed out, the devil is in the details. And looking more closely at the statistics on jobs and on the sources of our economic growth brings to light problems that tell us, in no uncertain terms, that not all is well in our economy.

In fact, the situation suggests to me that it would be outright dangerous to proceed in the same directions we have been taking, given these weaknesses lurking within.

I will not repeat what I have written recently (NFL 7/9/07) on the declining quality of jobs even with their increasing quantity. What is even more threatening is the alarming decline in domestic investments over the past two years. Foreign investments were not a problem; last year, they grew briskly by over 50 percent, based on BSP data on actual inflows. Do foreigners see our longer-term potentials better than local investors do? Or is it because the foreigners fail to see something that the locals know more intimately?

Falling confidence
The latest news from BSP is worrisome: Foreign investment inflows fell in the first four months of this year, in contrast to last year’s brisk growth. As it is, we are already investing far less than our neighbors do, i.e., 15 percent of our GDP against our neighbors’ 25 percent or higher–and the gap is widening. We averaged a mere 0.6-percent average annual investment growth in 2002-2006, while our neighbors averaged from 3 to 20 percent annually. Malacañang’s selective statistics notwithstanding, the official statistics speak for themselves.

The recent State of the Nation Address was an opportunity to usher in real change, and to redeem the troubled presidency in its remaining years. Disappointingly, recent actions and developments–and yes, the speech itself–point to more of the same. But all the above tell us we just cannot afford more of the same. We need to address the ongoing crisis in investment confidence from the core. We badly need confidence boosters from the government–not more killings, more erring officials going unpunished, more questionable government appointments, more anomalous government contracts, more policies and decisions sacrificing the welfare of the greater majority in favor of a few powerful vested interests.

No one disputes the dire need for unity and solidarity in this country. But to ask Filipinos to unite in perpetuating wrongs is something else.

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 2:40 pm 



No problem John Marzan and I respect your opinion….I can not justify comments made by these “trolls” on Ellen’s blog but I think I know the reason why they come about versus the notion na “trabaho nila ang mangulo” I think these trolls that you mentioned are people that are just weak and can not distance themselves from the egotistic personalities of Ellen’s regular members. Intead of getting amused and even having a favorite member to hate like me, they put in comments to personally attack members hence the trouble and flame wars. This might be the very reason why it’s a popular blog.

my experience usually is, kung walang troublemakers, walang gulo. “moderates” are always welcome. kaya nga hindi moderated ang blogs ng iilan dito eh (unlike some well known blogs).

I think these trolls that you mentioned are people that are just weak and can not distance themselves from the egotistic personalities of Ellen’s regular members. Intead of getting amused and even having a favorite member to hate like me, they put in comments to personally attack members hence the trouble and flame wars. This might be the very reason why it’s a popular blog.

i don’t know about ellen’s stats or blog popularity, but after the elections, mukhang konti na lang ang gulo (and maybe because mas proactive na si ellen sa pagbantay).

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 3:16 pm 



“And to grd, I suggest you be more judicious with your remarks about a fellow blogger of Ellen’s stature!”
=====

Ellen’s stature? Jeez. If that is our measure of blogging quality, then we as a community are in deeper trouble than we think we are in.

And, yes, Ellen banned me too, the same way Alecs Pabico (PCIJ) did.

and you’ve been banned so many times in pinoyexchange too (and pex is 5 to 1 pro-admin). nakipag-away ka pa kay cathcath aka garfield M.

benign0 banned by admin
benign2 banned by admin
benign03 banned by admin
benign05 banned by admin

ANO, sasabihin mo na ban ka dahil sa “PRO-ARROYO” views mo sa pinoyexchange? (tapos ipagtatanggol ka ng mga ignoranteng posters like bencard at rego lol)

and aren’t you the same guy who likes to cause trouble in PHNO forum? sa pagkakaalam ko HINDI “pro-arroyo” si Red Angel.

sa napapansin ko, you’re a professional heckler who likes to spam and promote your website by posting links to it every chance you get (ganyan pa rin ba ang M.O. mo, benign0)

it telling that the only place where you are welcome to spew your drivel unconditionally is at sassy’s site. you are who your friends are.

btw, i have nothing against you. hindi naman tayo nag-away sa pinoyexchange or any othe forums, yes? kasi hindi ko na pinapansin ang hindi dapat pansinin. ika nga, don’t feed the trolls.

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 3:28 pm 



in short, you just could not get along with most people benign0. doesn’t matter kung maka-arroyo o maka-erap sila.

benign0 on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 3:37 pm 



“btw, i have nothing against you. hindi naman tayo nag-away sa pinoyexchange”

Depends on what you mean by “nag-away”. Some people feel that “inaaway” sila when someone begs to differ against their cherished views.

If your idea of participating in blogs and on-line forums is everyone holding hands and not making-”away” and singing off the same political page, then it’s no wonder that you consistently come across the way you do.

Interesting though that you’d bring up the PHNO. If you check out my latest “panggu-gulo” there, maybe you’ll gain some insight on who it is really who engages in inappropriate behaviour.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/5345/message/1185515828/It%27s+OFFICIAL+then...

Anyways, with due respect to MLQ, I suggest you take your specific issues with moi off-line lest you be accused of attacking the messenger before understanding the message, dude.

cocoy on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 4:33 pm 



BenignO;

One can learn a lot from participating in a jolog site like Ellen’s. For one thing, the views exchanged there are quite typical of underclass mentalities. If you wanna learn about masa thinking (which, in fact, characterises something like 90% of Pinoy thought), I suggest you lurk around there.
*************************************************************
I visited your site and this is what is written on your wall:.Pinoys are:

========
(1) non-productive
(2) intellectually bankrupt
(3) devoid of substance
(4) unimaginative
Now,who is jolog Benigno? As I remember you called me “Dude” at Ellen’s Blog which you don’t even know who I am. As I remembered also, you are an Ellen’s reject because you respect no one but your almighty ego. Look at your site! You have a ZERO response.

BrianB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 4:45 pm 



You want to be in the first world. Impose 70 per cent inheritance tax, including all assets.

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 4:53 pm 



Anyways, with due respect to MLQ, I suggest you take your specific issues with moi off-line lest you be accused of attacking the messenger before understanding the message, dude.

no need. i’m done.

it’s just funny na when the issue of trolls was being discussed, bigla kang lumabas (how apropo)

tinamaan ka ba? I guess you are the message.

grd on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 5:02 pm 



What’s the problem with this smart aleck? Can’t accept the fact that there are people here in blogosphere other than the so called anti-gloria and pro-gloria fanatics (obviously his partiality shows which group he belongs)? So another version of those “pro-gloria idiots”, if you’re not anti-gloria you’re manggugulo.

As far as my first post is concerned (the start of the heated exchange), I’m just stating a fact to Bencard that there is ugliness in blogging too and not just the beauty of it (like here in MLQ3) where anyone can challenge other’s vast ideas, opinions, points of views, etc. and still come up with a healthy discussion about everything under the sun (not resorting to cursing, bad mouthing and labelings). Etong mga self proclaimed anti-gloria (kuno as if sila lang ang galit kay Gloria at sa nga nangyayari sa bansa) masyadong mga balat-sibuyas and are always into conspiracy theories.

Why limit the discussions on certain topics? “Troll” for all I care kaya nilalangaw yung blogs ng iba diyan (ika nga ni benignO, hollow-headed partisanism…).

And while bong austero and connie veneracion have gone a long way, they’re still fixated in their own little world.

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 5:36 pm 



you’re deluding yourself grd if you think na na-ban lang ang iilan dito because they “dissented” or “expressed different views”.

don’t worry, hindi ko na bibirahin pa si benign0.

And while bong austero and connie veneracion have gone a long way, they’re still fixated in their own little world.

not really. the black helicopter crowd are still at it, whenever an opportunity arises.

http://www.sassylawyer.com/2007/07/26/a-hello-garci-sequel/#comments

BrianB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 6:17 pm 



One of our problems is that we have inherited the self-consciousness of Americans without inheriting their arrogance.

“Let’s give it a break! (1) our brand of Christianity is medieval, (2) we not only cannot speak straight English, we are trying to banish the language from our education system, (3) we laugh at just about anything, even our own stupidity and on every conceivable medium – mobile phones, the Internet, etc., and (4) showbiz personalities are dancing and singing their way into office. Growing pains, yes, but we could have had as our mentor, a country that already had more than 200 years worth of lessons in democratic governance. But no! In 1946, we chose to learn to walk before we could even barely crawl.”

grd on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 6:37 pm 



whatever you think john marzan. the fact is, i’ve been a long time lurker of ellen’s blog (under a different name), been posting some comments now and then but never been banned. the fact is, i’m so turned-off with the kind of characters in there (the cursing and labelings). and you might need to know that i’m a regular in pcij (a certified gloria basher). wonder why you have not attacked that arrogant ystakei like what you’ve been doing with benignO. she’s been attacking the country and Filipinos in general as well. i guess as long as you’re a Gloria basher, you’re forgiven, right? just like what ellen’s been doing in tolerating that slob. but i still think you have the same mindset as the regulars there.

grd on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 6:52 pm 



you’re referring to this john? you sounded like a looser here.

8. Sassy wrote on 29. July 2007 at 12:08 PM

Re #5. LOL same old you, John. Still trying to find a paper willing to publish your crap eh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I thought you’d mature with time but, no. You still insist on attacking me instead of talking about issues. You do belong with your crowd of junkie bloggers.

benign0 on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 7:09 pm 



“don’t worry, hindi ko na bibirahin pa si benign0″

Tsk tsk. Unlike you, John, I don’t see myself as a victim here of any kind of “bira” or “away”.

It’s too bad neither yours nor people like Abinales’s credentials can hide the sad reality of the smallness of the mind behind them.

And don’t flatter yourself. I don’t even recall having any kind of significant exchange of ideas with you in PEx or the PCIJ or wherever else you imagine yourself making a dent (which makes me wonder why tuwang-tuwa ka sa ‘kin. ).

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 8:02 pm 



whatever you think john marzan. the fact is, i’ve been a long time lurker of ellen’s blog (under a different name), been posting some comments now and then but never been banned. the fact is, i’m so turned-off with the kind of characters in there (the cursing and labelings). and you might need to know that i’m a regular in pcij (a certified gloria basher).

so ano yung nic mo sa pcij at sa blog ni ellen, grd? baka kilala kita. baka hindi.

wonder why you have not attacked that arrogant ystakei like what you’ve been doing with benignO.

uh… hindi ko pinapansin si benign0 until now, grd.

hi fired the first shot, i fired back.

most of the time, i just ignore him.

john marzan on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 8:17 pm 



whatever you think john marzan. the fact is, i’ve been a long time lurker of ellen’s blog (under a different name), been posting some comments now and then but never been banned. the fact is, i’m so turned-off with the kind of characters in there (the cursing and labelings). and you might need to know that i’m a regular in pcij (a certified gloria basher).

i’ve been turned off by the commenters in the pro-arroyo blogs too, but i don’t waste my time stalking their sites. so why even bother to waste your time going to a blog whose members you hate? that’s what i don’t get.

you are turned off by some of the anti-arroyo commenters? to be honest, i see no difference between them and the anti-erap commenters i’ve encountered before nung presidente pa si erapski. some of the finger wagging know it alls who were calling for erap’s head because of corruption and abuse of power, are now the same people defending arroyo.

difference between then and now is that hypokrito yung former.

Devilsadvc8 on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 8:27 pm 



Blogging as a medium of propagating one’s thoughts is still in its infancy (relatively speaking). Blogging is a kind of ego-trip writers ride onto. Everyone tries to attract as much readers as they can to raise awareness of their blogs.

At the start, blogging was born as just another adjunct of a journal. A dear diary made online. And a repository of one’s poetic works. Blogging as a means of “opinionating” developed much, much later on. Certainly much later than the advent of FORUMS or bullboards. Even the comments section of the blog arose from the need to imitate a forum’s capability to entertain other views.

A blog’s worth cannot definitely be measured by page ranks or by links alone. And even that “beauty pageant” of blogs is not an indicative measure of a blog’s success. that pissing contest is only a measure of how a group of bloggers tries to corner the market by distributing amongst themselves the “worth” of their blogs. alarming still, is the trend of commercial journalist trying to grab the “blog niche” to still pander their “views” and “thoughts” on the online community as if their air time or page allotment in dailies are still not enough. i expect still the “blog wars” to further escalate once advertisers get in on the picture. then you’ll really see intense quarrels abt rankings and page views. (and in the US, they’ve already grabbed the chance to charge their readers as some blogs i’ve encountered required the need to register or become a paid member before you can view their blogs)

i am worried abt commercial journalist hogging the limelight and pushing out other enterprising bloggers (by their means of banding together and throwing each other links) bec not only does this restrict the growth of more bloggers, it also thumps the one thing really great abt blogging: discovery of new talent.

in my time of being online, few are blogs i’ve come across that i’d really consider GOLD. and those few aren’t even what others would consider “active” since the author rarely updates regularly or have stopped posting altogether. for exampe, the blogs of my favorite authors aren’t as active as MLQ3’s (understandably, since they spend the bulk of their time writing their books), and aren’t as much linked or have as many daily hits as his, but that certainly doesn’t diminish their worth compared to MLQ3’s blog.

but maybe that’s just me. i am after all, more into poetry and prose than pure politics and everything else. even my blogs (yes with an s) display this inclination.

but if opinions are worth considering, these writers then are those whom I really admire:

Randy David, Michael Tan, Walden Bello, and of course this blog’s author. I had a passing adulation for Billy Esposo until he left PDI and I stopped reading his columns.

Blogging is like a social network. The more “blogger friends” you have, the more are the chances of your blog being linked and having more readers via the word-of-mouth method. This ultimately dooms anti-socials and their blogs, no matter how good it is, until such time that another noted blogger notices it, and passes the word around.

But if there are two things a blogger cannot avoid asking oneself, they are these: are there people really reading what I write? and do they really care?

at which I only have this concern for my own writing: that my works do not pass into the realm of meaningless things that didn’t change a thing or a person. i’d like to think that at least my work served some purpose, no matter how silly that may be.

BrianB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 9:44 pm 



Define, define, define, define,we’re always defining and redefining. I guess to a lot of people, by defining and redefining they come closer to meaning. No man, no.

grd on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 9:56 pm 



john, kilalang kilala mo ako and the others here. if you want i’ll email my old nic to you for as long as you keep it a secret between us.

as for lurking in ellen’s blog, i am after the topics and commenting where my interest lies but definitely not about the court martial proceedings (an obsession i think for ellen and the regulars). i’m not even interested in any exchange with the regulars there.

regarding erap, i’m equally turned-off with those anti-erap commenters before who are now defending him and even calling for his release just because they are saying that the crimes of gloria are worse than erap. kagaya ng sinabi mo mga hypokrito ang mga taong ganyan. for me, pare-pareho lang ang dalawa na dapat ikulong.

BrianB on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 9:59 pm 



Blog Popularity:

I’ve looked up all your blogs here. Self-indulgence – let’s put it another way – a blog full of the suthor’s solipsism seems like the straightest way blog limbo. One of the reasons MLQ3’s blog is popular (he says 2k unix a day) is that he links to other notable blogs and sites on the Web. If it’s all about his opinions and reposts of his column, only 200 people will visit every day.

Be useful. Pushing your opinions on other people feels like rape. Want your blog to be popular, go for news. Less opinions.

ay_naku on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 10:11 pm 



Interesting exchanges of comments here. I’m learning a lot of new things, including my observation that so many people here seem to have too much free time on their hands, LOL. Lotsa self-indulgence going on, but heck it’s fun to do and fun to read.

luzviminda on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 10:22 pm 



The PCIJ Blog has lost its appeal not only when Ms. Sheila left, but also when it stops being anti-Gloria! That is the truth! I am once a blogger there!

benj on Mon, 30th Jul 2007 10:41 pm 



Down with those Luddites! Hahaha.

Eugene on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 12:58 am 



Hi, MLQ3! You seem to have a weird nonfunctional link to my blog, Vista Pinas, at the end of #5 in your Top 10 influential list. Glitch in the Matrix?

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 2:26 am 



brianb:blogging about what you want isn’t pushing your opinions on people. see that blank space near the top of your screen? it’s called the address bar. you don’t like what you’re seeing on this page, type another url in there. the internet is wonderful that way – you’re never forced to tolerate what you don’t want to tolerate. as for self-indulgence, what else is a blog but an exercise in self-indulgence? it is the freedom to write whatever the fuck you want and get the fuck away with it, and fuck whatever anyone else thinks. See? I can even use the word fuck three times in the same sentence?

and as for this little gem: “Want your blog to be popular, go for news,” i know you think you’re just offering friendly advice, but don’t you think it’s ironic that the sentence before this one reads: “Pushing your opinions on other people feels like rape?”

Bencard on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:43 am 



and why did pcij stopped being “anti-glora” may i ask, luzviminda? was it a change of heart or did it just get tired of the nonsensical rantings of simple minds?

grd, about the only time i visited tordesilla’s blog, and became aware of it then, was when mlq3 referred to some excerpts of a supposed interview with mike arroyo concerning the latter’s activities during edsa dos. the pathetic woman was trying to show that the FG was actively involved in some acts of rebellion to oust erap and install his wife as president (charges which i refuted in this blog in debates with mlq3 and abe margallo, among others). i’m not questioning her right to set up a blog for a specific mission, i.e., to destroy the president and her family, and to provide an exclusive forum to those with similar proclivities. but for one who overtly advocates licentious exercise of free expression, banning bloggers and commenters for no other reason than that she doesn’t agree with them is the height of hypocrisy and pretension. i can leave her alone with her followers, and i know i will not miss anything worthwhile. i just hope many will find that boycotting that enclave of hate is one of the most decent thing one could do.

inodoro ni emilie on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 8:11 am 



“Define, define, define, define,we’re always defining and redefining. I guess to a lot of people, by defining and redefining they come closer to meaning. No man, no.”

tumpak, brian, tumpak.

just be and let be.

benign0 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 8:33 am 



“and why did pcij stopped being “anti-glora” may i ask, luzviminda? was it a change of heart or did it just get tired of the nonsensical rantings of simple minds?”

I observed in July 2005 how the PCIJ contributed to the divisiveness of an already fatally fragmented society by pandering to the tens if not hundreds of “groups” and “communities”, issuing “statements” calling for President Gloria Arroyo to resign (plus a minority encouraging her to hang in there).

Back then the PCIJ posted updated its blog with post after posts that parroted these “statements”. Furthering the asal-aso behaviour of Pinoys at the time — barking in unison – one dog starts barking in the night, and others in the neighbourhood following suit without really understanding what the fuss is all about.

Connie Veneracion accurately noted at the time: “The debate has become, quite simply, whether one is for or against Gloria Arroyo. And the media is propagating that twisted debate” — at the epicentre of that propagation of perverseness was the PCIJ.

The PCIJ also actively supported — implicitly by, yet again, parroting “statements” (that were really announcements) — the hyped up “mega-rally” that was to spectacularly fizzle out in Ayala Ave, on the 25th of July). Finally, the mother of all failed street “revolutions” (to date), one that was led by no less than Cory Aquino herself” in Commonwealth Avenue capped another Fiesta year in September 2005.

And even with the benefit of hindsight after all that display of ridiculousness, the PCIJ posted a blog article suggesting that Filipinos sing away their frustrations instead. The article cites a call to keep the spirit of Fiesta Revolution alive coming from a certain multi-awarded artist named Gary Granada:

===========
Since our representatives have ceased to represent us, it is up to us to directly represent our sentiments and assert ourselves,” said Granada. One way, especially for those inclined in the arts to “pursue yet another venue for reclaiming our voice” is through songs, he said, prodding songwriters and musicians from all over the country to create and share songs of protest.
===========

Tsk tsk.

Considering the above in retrospect, one really need not wonder why the PCIJ (if comment traffic is an indication) has all but crashed — going from triple-digit comment volumes to the single digits.

rego on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 9:04 am 



“Tsk tsk.

Considering the above in retrospect, one really need not wonder why the PCIJ (if comment traffic is an indication) has all but crashed — going from triple-digit comment volumes to the single digits.”

Single digits? I just log into PCIJ when I posted my comment about the site. And most articles has 0 comments as in zero, zilch, nada….

But anyways, problema na nila Alex P and the rest of PCIJ staff yan…. Ako naman nireviste ko lang yung pervios post a year ago pa. At curious na rin on what happen to teh blog that why I posted about it here.

I am wondering why peopel like jr lad and 3zz-fe is do not visit this blog. Or maybe they have change there names. ( Sorry CVJ, but there was a time I suspected that you are jrlad..)

And whats behind the changing of names? I remember vic was naykika in PCIJ. And my observation is that mostly anti Gloria who do this? why? comment eto sa mga anti Gloria. I havent changed my name, so does benign0. And I dont feel like changing it….

Another thing, we were branded as Luli internet brigade. But if you check all the blogs around, its actually those people who branded that are presnt in almost all teh comment sections of this blogs.. Bakit?

rego on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 9:22 am 



“You want to be in the first world. Impose 70 per cent inheritance tax, including all assets.”

Brian this is a very good idea. But i doubt it so much if this will proposal will prosper since most of our politician and lawmakers will be the ones that will be hit hard by it. Its the same thing with the anti dynasty law.

I was just thinking about the inheritance tax in the Phil the others. Because I ask one of my regular client, a british professor, on who among his two children will inherit their $2Million just in case. And he told me, “rego, no its very rare for parents in America to give their house to their children. Because teh inheritance tax is 50%….

Would you have any idea on how much is the current inheritance tax in the Phil? How does people like me who are outside the country can pay this. Or foremost to we have in the Phil? Or can anybody here provide soem links about this subject?

Jeg on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 9:25 am 



Gee, I never knew ’self-indulgent’ blogging is a problem we’re supposed to solve. And I never knew ‘everyone’ blogs because they want to be popular.

mlq3 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 9:54 am 



benign0, for the benefit of the local yokels, would you care to explain how your countrymen in australia exercise their democratic rights? in particular, how they and the government handled opposition to the iraq war, and the forced detention of political and economic refugees, the debate on aboriginal rights, etc.?

since you are always scathing about people power, and believe every issue is practically a non-issue, and that filipinos who work monday to saturday are lazy while aussies work monday to thursday (and fridays only grudgingly at best), i’m curious if you see any place at all for protest and rallies, in a democratic society.

mlq3 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 10:01 am 



re: brian’s comment. a high estate tax was one way that the power of the british aristocracy, politically and economically, was destroyed within a generation. the death duties were passed by parliament as a means of paying off war debts and because of mounting public pressure that eventually led to the british welfare state. the result of this policy, however, is that many britons, upon achieving even moderate wealth, immediately set up residency abroad, so they can avoid paying british taxes.

rego, here at home, we have the estate tax:

http://www.bir.gov.ph/taxcode/1889.htm

Also,

“A progressive schedule of donor taxes begins with gifts above P100,000 (about $18,500), and lays out seven bands (2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, 10%, 12%, and 15%) with the top marginal rate applying to gifts above P10,000,000 (about $186,520). The progressive estate tax begins at P200,000 (about $37,000) and lays out five bands (5%, 8%, 11%, 15% and 20%) up to P10,000,000 (about $186,520). The capital gains tax is 6% on real property; 5% on gains of P100,000 or less from the sale of stock not listed on the stock exchange, and 10% on gains over P100,000.”

Our estate taxes are calculated and levied in a complicated manner, which often requires hiring a tax attorney and much haggling with the BIR.

The process is here:

http://e-fpo.fpo.go.th/e-fiscal/PWGuides/individualguides/DOCS/wcd00003/wcd003fc.htm

Of course for families with great wealth, the question of the estate tax is easily solved in the following manner (as it’s done elsewhere):

1. the creation of corporations to own and manage property; transfer and donation of shares, instead of titles of land, to heirs while the head of family is still living, which requires either donor’s tax or capital gains tax payments instead;
2. moving assets abroad, as Philippine law does not tax overseas assets
3. achieving a settlement with the BIR favorable to the heirs.

rego on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 10:29 am 



Thank you so much Manolo, Really appreciate it.

One last question, if I decided to give all my inherittance to my favorite nephew. Should I be the one to settle this? Or how does somebody waive his right to the family estate? Can I just say “inyo na yan”? Or I still have to consult a lawyer for this? sign soem documents? Anybody?

benign0 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 10:52 am 



mlq3,

It’s quite simple down here. People vote for their representatives in parliament, then TAKE THEM TO TASK. Taking to task means following up with them and directing their issues, grievances, and suggestions through the proper channels.

When things Government is doing becomes mis-aligned with people’s requirements, that misalignment gets relfected in the next elections. More importantly, the misalignment is debated/discussed in terms of issues rather than personalities or overly partisan affiliations.

The fact that the current government that sent troops to Iraq, detained refugees and processed them off-shore, and abides by whatever policies are in place to regard aborigines more consistently reflects what people GENERALLY think or subscribe to compared to say the Philippines where there is a relatively bigger gap between what people want and what politicians want.

There are protest rallies here. In fact there was a big one a couple of months ago to do with new industrial relations laws being introduced (which, in fact can be a deciding factor in the next elections).

The difference, is that you will be more likely to see politicians responding to these issues by engaging their constitutents’ thinking faculties in consultation with their representatives in the legislature along the lines of the over-arching philosophies/platforms of their respective parties.

Do you see such an approach in the Philippine setting? All we see are discussions on who is whispering what to what-not’s ear, what will the next opposition bloc will be composed of, who is in bed with who.

Panay who. There is hardly any discussion about the How’s and Why’s. I think hardly anyone nowadays will disagree that we’ve already had one Edsa “revolution” too many. And yet politicians still try their luck in this game of mobilising idle minds to take to the streets, when these same bozos in fact have so much resources and bureaucratic channels at their disposal to engage their constituents intelligently using due process.

Then again, Pinoys aren’t really much into doing things properly in the first place. Hardly surprising therefore that their politicians reflect this reality.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 10:55 am 



ROM
“and as for this little gem: “Want your blog to be popular, go for news,” i know you think you’re just offering friendly advice, but don’t you think it’s ironic that the sentence before this one reads: “Pushing your opinions on other people feels like rape?””

Amateurish.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 11:15 am 



“since you are always scathing about people power, and believe every issue is practically a non-issue, and that filipinos who work monday to saturday are lazy while aussies work monday to thursday (and fridays only grudgingly at best), i’m curious if you see any place at all for protest and rallies, in a democratic society”

He, he, he. Monday’s to Saturdays. Try even Sundays, Manolo. I’ve always thought of this thinking that Filipinos are Indolent to be propagated by the rich mestizos (original is Spanish-made of course) so Filipinos won’t think of fighting back. Destroy the indios’ confidence and you can rule at relative peace.

Even now conyos espouse this thinking. Sadly it’s trickled down rather effectively so that even the masses think this. Filipinos are very hard working, and they’d brave loneliness to keep their families at 3 square meals a day.

Now if you’re talking about the istambays. The istambays are like that for a very important reason: it’s frustration management. They are trying to keep themselves minimally frustrated. Otherwise baka magiging kriminal pa silang lahat. The usual advice to this people is tantamount to telling a person to keep digging in any spot in the desert for gold.

mlq3 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 11:16 am 



thanks, benign0. that’s very interesting. different from the way australians, even journalists, i meet express it (the take off point is whether one approves or disapproves of howard).

i will agree, however, that as far as leaders over here are concerned, you do make a vital point as to how they often have a vast arsenal of institutional/legal armaments at their fingertips but would rater go the lechon manok way.

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 12:18 pm 



brianb:such professional eloquence. here, have an enema.

jaxius on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 1:16 pm 



mlq3,

The Philippine estate tax covers properties wherever they are situated (Section 85, NIRC). The only exception is if you are an alien. Then, the estate tax shall only cover properties located in the Philippines.

benign0 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 1:33 pm 



mlq3,

i do find it strange too that you’d come across Australians who’d provide a less-than-simple take on how thing are done down here. Even elections are straightforward. I, for one, voted with my family on our way home from the local grocery store. The whole exercise was more like a trip to return a rented video than the Fiesta of blood and colour that it is up there. And the next day, the results were out!

Which is why I tend not to be impressed with the perceived industriousness of Pinoys. Yes, Pinoys work from Monday to Sunday, and Aussie’s work from Monday to Friday (taking 2-hour lunch breaks and lots of coffee breaks to boot). But the results speak differently. The average Australian yields more than ten times the economic output of the average Pinoy.

By the same token, an election can be conducted here with a skeletal force of public school teachers, while in the Philippines, not only the entire teaching force is mobilised, but most of the army, the police, and battallions of poll watchers, volunteers, and sidewalk vendors add themselves to the fray.

And the real kicker there is that after all that, where is the sense of accomplishment? Zilch. Exactly the way people are feeling today in the aftermath of this last Fiesta Election.

If pure work effort (say, in terms of sheer volume of man-hours poured into an exercise) is the measure of how great a people are, Pinoys win hands down. We’de beat most 1st world people in terms of number of hours worked per week.

Unfortunately it is RESULTS that define achievement in our world.

I’m glad you’ve made that observation as well about the vast array of governance infrastructure in place and at everyone’s disposal, and yet we prefer our politics served to is via the Wowowee Channel and executed on our arterial roads to the beat of the ocho-ocho.

jaxius on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 1:33 pm 



mlq3,

Sorry. my above post is not entirely correct. You must be a non-resident alien so that only properties in the Philippines can be covered by the estate tax.

mlq3 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 1:41 pm 



benign0, surely part of it is sheer population size. at 20.4 million, oz’s population is where we were in 1951, and the percentage of at least moderately-educated people is higher in oz now than in rp even then. not to mention, deserts and coasts aside, oz is one continent while we have many islands, etc. with the logistical problems that entails. also, you have a more cohesive population (or have had, mostly). but definitely, in terms of efficiency in general, there’s much to be desired here at home, and present rules aren’t conducive to organized elections or party-building in the western sense.

PTT on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 1:55 pm 



Another reason for a blog’s success is its entertainment value. These are some blog comments that I find amusing and hilarious. Of course comments like these may not be entertaining to some, but the blog has succeeded in making a reader out of me:

” —-, while the blog has been getting much flak everywhere from “undesirables” who once thought they could massage their egos here, they got the same firebrand of bitch-slapping from our bloggers here, right in their own turf! I’ve read good responses from Anna, luzviminda, johnmarzan, manuelbuencamino, many others, but though I had wanted to put in my own counter-attack, my posts were filtered, don’t know why. It’s in Manolo Quezon’s blog, and in PCIJ’s shoutbox, too!

One particular avid fan of Ystakei is spreading his I-hate-yuko campaign using different IDs all over the political blogs lately.

Just goes to show how “apektado” these whiners are. Let’s keep the fire burning! ”

” After this legal wishy-washy had been exhausted, i hope that the good Senator Trillanes will have the guts to call AGAIN the people to exercise their inherent right to remove a government that, aside from not having a clear mandate, has become too oppressive and deceptively abusive.

Lead us Senator.

Call your people, Sir, and they shall come. ”

” I like your comment, “Call your people, Sir, and they shall come.”

I second the motion to that one ! ”

“To quote Sampot again (July 30th, 2007 at 8:52 pm): “Lead us Senator. Call your people, Sir, and they shall come.”

benign0 on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 2:14 pm 



mlq3,

Australia has logistical challenges that aren’t too different from the Philippines.

It’s small population and vast distances between cities (and declining small towns) make development of infrastructure far less economical than, say, Europe or North America. Furthermore, soil quality in the Australian continent is very poor. Thousands of settlers perished before decent agricultural capability gained a firm foothold here.

Compare that to a volcanic islands group where edible vegetation grows like weeds. Unlike Australia in the 18th to 19th centuries, the Philippines was already part of a major trans-pacific trading route (at a time when the main shipments to and from Australia were mainly convicts and opportunists).

And even today, the geographical location of the Philippines — right smack in the middle of shipping routes that feeds of the much covetted straits of Malacca — is a port operator’s envy. There was even a time when we enjoyed free military cover for these vital routes (and like other endeavours, our stupidity got the better of us when we kicked them out).

We can go on and on making excuses about the failure of our society to prosper. But looking back to take stock of the enormous capital we squandered in the last several decades, I think it’s time we applied a bit of HIYA in the way we regard ourselves.

RE what you said that “and present rules aren’t conducive to organized elections or party-building in the western sense”, I’m kinda skeptical of the idea that it is just the “rules” that hobble our ability to practice democracy PROPERLY.

Democracy is premised on the notion that people think things through and have a fair bit of clarity around what is good not only for themselves but for society as a whole. I don’t think a people who are content with “we simply are” is really ready to embrace a form of governance that requires consistently-applied critical thinking.

If the debates (if you can even call them that) in Ellen Tordesillas’s blogs are a measure of the critical thinking faculties of the MAJORITY of Pinoys then our consistent failure to step up to what democracy truly is all about shouldn’t come across as much of a surprise to us.

inodoro ni emilie on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 3:46 pm 



australia is a workplace laboratory set up. do not forget benigs that australia is a migrant country, where entry is controlled and determined by work skills. is their level of productivity therefore suprising? which is not to say that it should not be emulated. which is to say, that all your ranting could be made more productive if you go home and instead teach us these valuable lessons.

Jeg on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 3:59 pm 



With all due respect to INE, I think benign0 is most useful where he is right now.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 5:12 pm 



Rom,

Sorry this is beneath anyone, but Rom, what are you offering? What’s “here”? Ha, ha, ha. What’s supposed to give me an enema?

Observation: It’s great not to put a face on the names here (except MLQ3). Very interesting.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 5:19 pm 



Filipinos are ruled by minorities. Pick a country anywhere in the world with the same situation, I bet they’d be stagnating in poverty too.

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 5:28 pm 



brianb:hahahaha. do you even know what an enema is? hahahaha. oh, you priceless gem.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 5:33 pm 



I get my colon cleaned once a month. Keeps my brian in good working order. Is that the same thing? Why do stupid people always think others are stupider than they are.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 5:38 pm 



Rom is one of those Filipinos who think that everyone he hasn’t heard of is a driveling idiot. I seriously suggest you do some soul searching. You may have a racist brain. I can’t imagine someone nitpicking about enema. My ex works in the porn industry. You have no idea how many varieties there are. Diffrent flavors. I can’t explain here what these flavors are for.

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:04 pm 



brianb:OMG! you get your colon cleaned once a month and it keeps your ‘brian’ in good working order! bwahahaha. i should’ve known there was a direct link between your poop-chute and your brain.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:10 pm 



Ok, because of this ROM dude I took a g;lance at the sites Manolo has nominated. At least a couple of them seem to be written by snobs from elite schools, still in school, writing in detestable English. I can quote some of your blog entries here if you want to challenge me. Self-indulgence is the right word. Though intellectual snobbery is not altogether bad. I think it’s a phase most middle class kids go through when they get accepted to schools like Ateneo and U.P. (yeah I wasone of those kids). It used to be that these snobbish behavior stay private. Now it’s all over the Net. It used to be only Jessica Zafra and a few dumbass DJ in Manila radios manage to spread this anti-Filipino attitude. Now it’s on the WWW.

I’m not addressing this message particularly to ROM who is only 19, btw. I’m addressing this to everyone young enough to change their ways. The masses should not be hated. Sure, bad English (worse than ROM’s and the other young guy on the list… ROM actually spells paid “payed”) may sound irritating, especially if you yourself is barely managing. What I can promise ROM and people like him is this: once you’re more confident, you’ll find these trying hard people less irritating. People in call centers may have awful grammar, but believe me or not, they are not pretentious.

I particularly think “Puckering Time” is a bad nomination. Look at this incredible piece of prose:

“I was never curious about Harry Potter. For some reason or so ever since the first book went to circulation and the first movie which happened to a blockbuster hit a couple of years ago, I did not feel a sense of responsibility or whatsoever to know what the commotion was all about.”

This dude has the gall to criticize call center employees on the MRT but please have a look at how pretentious his English is… “I did not feel a sense of responsibility or whatsoever to know what the commotion was all about.”

Please understand, I don’t hate people like you. I am angry at what this country and what our social structure has done to otherwise promising minds. Leave hardworking call center workers alone. Stop insulting the masses. If you are the elite, then be worthy of such a designation. Do something significant. For starters, improve your English. Elite Filipinos should be able to write naturally, not like this:

“It’s a good thing that mlq3 is doing this because, as he points out, we would have to rely on an a.m. transistor otherwise, and i can’t even remember when the last time i saw one of those was. which leads me into a tangent… ”

“Tangent”?

Guy, nothing wrong with sincerity. Nothing wrong with being beneath the glass ceiling with the masses and the working class. I can tolerate mannered prose but mannered prose that beats the hell out of badlsy beaten colloquialism has something inherently detestable with it.

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:21 pm 



brianb:LOL. thanks for coming to my site, brianb. as for my english being bad, well, that’s your opinion, yes? but i will certainly take advice from someone who writes this:

“Nothing wrong with being beneath the glass ceiling with the masses and the working class. I can tolerate mannered prose (mannered prose is to be tolerated? brian, you cute ‘tard, mannered prose is to be fucking celebrated!) but mannered prose that beats the hell out of badlsy (so, you must totally hate yourself for spelling “badly” “badlsy,” right?) beaten colloquialism has something inherently detestable with it.”

oh, i get it. you don’t know what tangent means either.
I shudder to think what “writing naturally” means to you.

Jeg on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:24 pm 



I miss manuelbuencamino and Bencard’s comedy stylings already.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:27 pm 



“mannered prose is to be fucking celebrated!”

Your professor should be fired.

Manolo, you help made these monsters.

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:29 pm 



jeg:i’m sorry i’m not as entertaining, jeg.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:31 pm 



I’m smiling at the thought that someday I’m going to meet this guy ROM. I can’t imagine what his reaction will be.

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:34 pm 



brianb:when are we meeting brianb? i don’t think i’ll be raptured.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:36 pm 



ROM,

Mannered prose loses soul. Everyone knows that. Your English is worse since your idiomatic template is already soulless.

Now, many you can tell me who taught you to write like that?

Rom on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:53 pm 



brianb:writing, like any other form of self-expression, is intensely personal, my fav’rit ‘tard. so if i write the way i do, well then, i write i do, and you can go find someone else to read if you don’t like it. who died and appointed you heir to strunk&white? and as for learning to write like this, i learned from reading the likes of henry james and eileen chang and tolkien and c.s. lewis. it helps that my brain isn’t in my colon.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:56 pm 



OK read more of ROM’s blog. Not all that bad. The sample I quoted was apparently one of his worst days. Just to be completely fair, he’s completely wrong about mannered prose. I still maintain my opinion of Puckering Time.

Frankly, Yugatech is the most influential Filipino blog. It’s tech but it also deals most of the time about what’s important to many Filipino: progress. Granted Abe’s blog focuses on a niche (i.e. only one of several avenues for progress in our country), he is notable for being the Yoda of Web 2.0

PTT on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 6:56 pm 



Brian,

Don’t be so hard on the kid. His mommy and daddy bought him his computer for being such a smart boy. We all went through that “know it all” phase. He still lives with daddy and got his mommy outside his room to protect him from the real world. Let him have his fun.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 7:14 pm 



Old people are worse at being “know it alls” than young people. What I’m saying is that being snobbish especially towards the working class has something sick about it. It smells like something is rotten within, a cultural ulcer.

These universities are teaching kids confidence at the expense of the working class. It is sick. I instantly recognized ROM’s provocation as snobbery. “I don’t know what enema means” and calling me retard. He assumes it insults me not him because he doesn’t know me. I am a nameless SOB who doesn’t have “K.” Correct me if I’m wrong here ROM.

PTT on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 7:26 pm 



For his sake I hope he’s an elite and daddy’s got everything lined up for him so that he won’t have to be part of the working class.

BrianB on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 9:26 pm 



PTT,

Hm I think this ROM dude is not a dude.

“nyway, so I was indulging is this particularly tasty revenge fantasy where I absolutely – ABSOLUTELY – ruin this man’s life as punishment for his calling me a particularly nasty four-letter word, beginning in “S” and rhyming with “LUT.”

Backstory: he wasn’t getting any from me. HAH! So, because he wasn’t getting any, he started spreading this rumor that he was getting it all. Typical. Oh, it also helped that I turned down his latest attempt in front of his varsity jock friends. Double HAH!”

Just assumed with all the Alizee videos embedded at homepage, which explains why she keeps calling me “retard.” Sorry if you’re a girl, ROM, I was kinda thinking of smacking you someday.

Still no excuse calling me retard.

PTT on Tue, 31st Jul 2007 10:16 pm 



oops! sorry ROM, I didn’t know you were a young lady. My appologies. Is that you in the picture on your blog?

Rom on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 1:56 am 



brianb&ptt:what? easing off on me coz i’m a girl? and no, i’m not part of the working class as i think you’re imagining it to be. but does that make me a proper target for disdain? and does confidence mean I’m looking down my nose at these ‘working class’ people whose honor you think you’re defending? not at all boys. that’s the good thing about the ‘net, is that I don’t know and don’t give squat what ‘class’ people who diss me come from. just like i don’t expect them to care what class I come from.

and yes, i will call people retards who act and think like retards. you think that’s inappropriate or insensitive or irresponsible, well, tough. whatever class you are.unless of course you stop acting like a retard and then, i might consider apologizing.

as for me making fun of you, brianb, you earned that barb, i’m sorry to say. i pointed out an irony in your statement and you come all up in my face telling me I’m amateurish? puh-leeze.

PTT, what do you think?

PTT on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 2:03 am 



Rom, now I think your Hot.

Rom on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 2:10 am 



PTT:weh.not really.

Devilsadvc8 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 2:31 am 



Allow me to butt in on your conversation, Brian and ROM.

Grammar isn’t everything. It’s not a cause to look down on everyone else who aren’t as good as you when it comes to it. It’s not a measure of how good you are as a person.

And having been accepted in a premiere university isn’t an excuse to act high and mighty as well.

I’ve known pretty good writers who’re horrible with their grammar. and um, they’re being good as “writers” wasn’t bec. of their grammar.

check this one out.
http://bob6kk.blogs.friendster.com/irritable_bowel_syndrome/

the tragedy series is fuckin wicked.
and no, that’s not my blog. it’s a friend’s.
i don’t know abt what’s your idea of a good writer, but this one here’s one in my book.

ok. hope i’ve shamed some of the pretentious ones out there.

jr_lad on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 5:01 am 



Hey Rego,

The candyman is here. You call my name 3x so here I am. Thanks for the compliment and for thinking highly of me. I’ve never imagine I’m constantly in your thoughts. But as far as I can remember, I only engaged you 2x or 3x. After that I decided not to make patol to you because I realized that you’re just showing-off. I think it was 3zz-fe who can’t stand your ways and engaged you on some petty mudslingings.

Anyways, if you happened to visit PCIJ, you would’ve known that I’m still visible there as Vic here or Naykika can attest. We are one of the few remaining regulars that are religiously following noteworthy reports from PCIJ people and posting comments from time to time. It doesn’t really follow that the absence of commenters to picj blog poses a big problem to Aleck and company since PCIJ is already an institution in the world of journalism (check PCIJ.org). So my friend, cheer up. You must be a happy man.:)

BrianB on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 10:23 am 



ROM,

In still want to know who your writing prof is.

BrianB

Rom on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 10:41 am 



brianb:don’t start that again. you think you’re better than him because you disagree with the way i write? sheesh.

cocoy on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 12:26 pm 



Wallaborongamala is the land down under BenignO. The Australian Government’s foreign policy welcomes all immigrants, especially those from poor countries who leech off welfare funds and cannot speak English. Congratulation to you,you learned to speak that language in a decade, now I know why you hate Filipinos. You heightened your perception that pinoys are lazy and drunken buffoons. We all know that’s not true. An eyebrows are raised when you comment about indulgence of pinoy, you set out to trap in a manner that would be totally contrary to accepted to anyone’s intellect standards. Choreograph your contribution to Australiano, your dancing ocho-ocho. By the way I am a regular at Ellen’s blog Benigno. Stop ridiculing that site.

PTT on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 2:01 pm 



Ahhhhhh, ya people! Nobody can mess with ellen’s blog! If you do, then your going to have to face this cocoy character. He is a classic member. As you can all see from his post above, he can tear you up to pieces with his debating skills.

” chi Says:

August 1st, 2007 at 10:41 am

Kapag ganyan na ang Ellenville ay tinatalakay outside of this blog, ibig lang sabihin ay SIKAT tayo sa lahat. yehey!

Excellent, excellent “publicity” for Ellenville!

Thanks Anna, John M and Cocoy. “

Devilsadvc8 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 2:42 pm 



my comment is still in moderation. both here and in communal…

i can understand the one here for the link i’ve posted, but the other one doesn’t contain anything that needs to be moderated. unless of course Manolo has now decided to censor the f word.

so it must either be a really busy day for the site admin, or my IP is now banned.

Devilsadvc8 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 2:44 pm 



well, it doesn’t seem that way.

and i meant “still awaiting moderation”

BrianB on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 3:10 pm 



In the interest of transparency and free speech, MLQ3 should explain his moderator’s policy.

I get moderated, too and I don’t know why. Maybe it’s racist words like mestizos and kastilas that I’m so fond of using, or even hacienderos.

grd on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 3:34 pm 



“Ahhhhhh, ya people! Nobody can mess with ellen’s blog! If you do, then your going to have to face this cocoy character. He is a classic member. As you can all see from his post above, he can tear you up to pieces with his debating skills.”

PTT, some kind of a debater ehh! this cocoy must be very proud of himself. understand what is he ranting all about? i mean literally speaking

mlq3 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 3:48 pm 



my moderation policy goes: no threats against private individuals. otherwise, anything goes.

the spam filter of wordpress is very fierce, but otherwise a mystery to me. what it screens is determined, as far as i understand, by a database determined across many blogs.

whatever is the cause, when i have the chance, i approve the comments that have been held back.

Devilsadvc8 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 5:28 pm 



MLQ3,

tnx for the clarification.
i too am perplexed at how wordpress’ engine screens spam. though as far as i have observed, it seems very effective and quite good. (i can only theorize that its screening protocol is an AI that learns overtime what is SPAM and what isn’t) i have surmised before that the delayed approval of comments awaiting moderation must be an issue of the moderator being too busy.

and as you’ve said so, i was right.

benign0 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 5:41 pm 



“By the way I am a regular at Ellen’s blog Benigno. Stop ridiculing that site.”

Yeah, of course I remember you there, dude. But what I remember about you the most is you taking offense at me calling you “dude” for some bizarre reason after which you swore never to talk to me again. Indeed you are a classic Ellenville character.

Which is why I find it a bit strange that you seem to be giving me time of day again.

Tough luck. And, yes, I stand by my assertion that Ellen’s blog is as ridiculous as blogs get (although, I must admit that the characters there are far more representative of Pinoy society than the people here in mlq3’s blog).

cvj on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:15 pm 



Benign0, i remember that ‘dude’ exchange over at Ellen’s and i think Cocoy is older than you so i believe that under Eastern (not to mention Filipino) culture, he should be accorded some basic respect. For someone who strongly advocates that we emulate our Confucian neighbors, it’s all the more glaring that you do not practice what you preach.

benign0 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:32 pm 



Tsk tsk. Age does not necessarily make one better or wiser. As this guy who wrote me a while back would attest to (if you will pardon the baroque grammar please ):

==========
(Letter sent to benign0@yahoo.com dated 31 Oct 2005):

we filipinos are so hypocrete. we live on lies and half truth.

when I was a kid (am now 40 [years old]) our elders never give us straight answer. one day while playing to my female friend, we were both taking a bath (nude and I was 5 [years old]) I shout “ay pepe” [and] my aunt scolded me for saying bad words.

another was, when I ask my aunt again how did I come out in this world. and without hesitation she said “galing ka sa puwet”.

there’s alot more lies and half truth i learn from my elders, when we went to US at my age of 10 [years old], I was so surprised how ordinary folks explain everything as if am talking to them as the same age as mine. up to now am still wandering why we filipinos doesnt treat kids as intellectual and the future of our country, in the philippines, youth are deprive of ideas what is better for them. look who’s the one talking and explaining everything on tv,radios or in press con. FVR 78 [years old], DOJ Gonzales 78 [years old], Ex Gen Abat 80 [years old], Sec Ermita and other’s who as if t[h]ey will still live by hundred years and cannot accept that their ideas are already “kalawang”. please you oldies, give the youth what is best for the country and for them.

now I know if only I was around when Pres Quezon said “I would rather see the Philippines [run] like hell by filipinos than run like heaven by the americans”, I will be the one to say you dont know what youre saying. suppose we held a referendum and ask every filipinos if they want the Philippines to be part of USA as one of his member in State? [I] am sure it will get a landslide vote of yes. yes to be a member of United State of America.

but hypocrete will say, that’s traitor, that’s treason and maybe that [is] destabilazation.

thank you and hope that we filipinos one day wake up, there’s no hope with our politicians.

“evil to triumph in the Philippines, let all good filipino men and women do nothing and let our politician`s do their thing”
==========

This indicates our “elders’” regard for the youth, which goes a long way in explaining why Pinoys seem to have an embarassingly high tolerance for bullsh1t.

Sorry na lang kayong matatanda. You were the first-generation inheritors of a land full of promise back in the 50’s. And instead, you turned it into the sh1thole that it is today.

john marzan on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:32 pm 



john, kilalang kilala mo ako and the others here. if you want i’ll email my old nic to you for as long as you keep it a secret between us.

sabihin mo na dito. why keep it secret in the first place?

grd, about the only time i visited tordesilla’s blog, and became aware of it then, was when mlq3 referred to some excerpts of a supposed interview with mike arroyo concerning the latter’s activities during edsa dos. the pathetic woman was trying to show that the FG was actively involved in some acts of rebellion to oust erap and install his wife as president (charges which i refuted in this blog in debates with mlq3 and abe margallo, among others). i’m not questioning her right to set up a blog for a specific mission, i.e., to destroy the president and her family, and to provide an exclusive forum to those with similar proclivities. but for one who overtly advocates licentious exercise of free expression, banning bloggers and commenters for no other reason than that she doesn’t agree with them is the height of hypocrisy and pretension.

bencard, you ignorant slut. this is what mike arroyo said to nick joaquin in an interview with Phil. Graphic a few weeks after edsa dos.

Mike Arroyo in his own words.

web.archive.org/web/20020206231755/http://malaya.com.ph/jan16/edtorde.htm

john marzan on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:37 pm 



john, kilalang kilala mo ako and the others here. if you want i’ll email my old nic to you for as long as you keep it a secret between us.

sabihin mo na dito. why keep it secret in the first place?

grd, about the only time i visited tordesilla’s blog, and became aware of it then, was when mlq3 referred to some excerpts of a supposed interview with mike arroyo concerning the latter’s activities during edsa dos. the pathetic woman was trying to show that the FG was actively involved in some acts of rebellion to oust erap and install his wife as president (charges which i refuted in this blog in debates with mlq3 and abe margallo, among others). i’m not questioning her right to set up a blog for a specific mission, i.e., to destroy the president and her family, and to provide an exclusive forum to those with similar proclivities. but for one who overtly advocates licentious exercise of free expression, banning bloggers and commenters for no other reason than that she doesn’t agree with them is the height of hypocrisy and pretension.

bencard, you ignorant slut. this is what mike arroyo said to nick joaquin in an interview with Phil. Graphic a few weeks after edsa dos.

http://www.politicaljunkie.blogspot.com/2006/02/news-flash-military-coup-topples.html

benign0 on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:38 pm 



Tsk tsk, Mr. John Marzan. Your exquisite breeding never fails to shine through.

john marzan on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:44 pm 



this one from dean jorge bocobo is even better.

http://www.philippinecommentary.blogspot.com/2006/03/2001-leftist-rightist-coup-detat-in.html

cvj on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:44 pm 



Benign0, you show disrespect to your elders and then you have the gall to question someone else’s ‘breeding’? Tsk. Tsk.

grd on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:57 pm 



dude [dood]
(plural dudes)
noun (slang)
1. man: a man or boy
He’s one cool dude.
Hey, dude, what’s up?

Microsoft® Encarta® 2006.

what’s the problem if you’re called dude?

john marzan on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 7:57 pm 



i will agree, however, that as far as leaders over here are concerned, you do make a vital point as to how they often have a vast arsenal of institutional/legal armaments at their fingertips but would rater go the lechon manok way.

kaya nga sayang yung oportunidad noon jan. 2001 eh. kung idinaan nila sa may 2001 election (constitutional) ito instead of going the edsa dos (extra con) route, we wouldn’t be having the problems we are having today.

sayang. minadali kasi eh. dapat nahintay na lang ng 4 months para i-exercise ang karapatan nilang bumoto.

pero sabi nga nila eh, the genie is out of the bottle na. (but many people are trying to get it back)

cvj on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 8:01 pm 



grd, just like a lot of things in life, it’s the context that matters. that is something the dictionary cannot teach you.

grd on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 8:04 pm 



is that true that cocoy is older than benignO? is he a retarded then? check his previous posts.

grd on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 8:08 pm 



“kaya nga sayang yung oportunidad noon jan. 2001 eh. kung idinaan nila sa may 2001 election (constitutional) ito instead of going the edsa dos (extra con) route, we wouldn’t be having the problems we are having today.”

i agree with you one this one john.

john marzan on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 8:10 pm 



the spam filter of wordpress is very fierce, but otherwise a mystery to me. what it screens is determined, as far as i understand, by a database determined across many blogs.

whatever is the cause, when i have the chance, i approve the comments that have been held back.

para ma-approve kaagad ang post. wag maglagay ng links unless, you remove the “http:” and add “www.” sa umpisa ng link.

http://www.google.com

BrianB on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 9:42 pm 



The youth has been more abused than women or gays in this country. Api talaga mga bata dito. Mga batang maliliit parang property lang, bugbog sarado palagi. It’s gotten a lot better for people born in the 80s.

Our elders have nothing to be proud about. They’ve failed us. Their holding us on low esteem is a form of reverse psychology. It’s like if you know you did something bad to a child, one way of covering it up is to hurt him, as if everything is his fault. This way he’ll grow up respecting you and thinking he owes you the world. Happens to millions of Filipinos.

BrianB on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 9:43 pm 



That is, their holding us on low esteem, is a form of reverse psychology. Sorry about the typos guys, my laptop is really teeny.

BrianB on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 9:44 pm 



darned, that “in” low esteem.

grd on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 9:51 pm 



cvj,

but a lot of people often use that slang word too. is it because it’s benignO who said it and so the connotation appeared negative to you?

you’re talking about respect for that older guy but read his earlier post addressed to all the people here. does it sound respectful to you? he’s a troll (as per john marzan’s definition) okay? and as i’ve said, he sounded like more of a retardate to me.

Pedro on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 10:05 pm 



” That is, their holding us on low esteem, is a form of reverse psychology. ”

In what way Brian? are you talking about street children, rugby boys, child laborers due to the poverty problem? or are you saying there’s a grand scheme cooked up by big bad old people to put the youth down?

BrianB on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 10:37 pm 



No, I’m talking about how kids are raised.

cvj on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 11:11 pm 



grd, don’t bother trying to understand. i don’t think you can.

Pedro on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 11:29 pm 



Ahhh, so your talking about how spoiled the philippine kids are. How philippine parents work their ass off, become OFW’s just so they can pay for the kids elementary, highschool and college education. That we have an environment that a 21 year old man in the philippines will not be branded as a big time LOSER if he still lives with parents.

BrianB on Wed, 1st Aug 2007 11:39 pm 



What the frik are you talking about Pedro? I mean kung ang matatanda may kasalanan di nila inaamin tapos pag kita nila alam nang bata, and gagawin ay bubugbugin ang bata para hindi sila mabuking. I’m not just talking about physical punishment either, I’m also talking about mild threats, patronizing behavior and every day blackballing of the youth, excepting the youth with connections of course.

and Loser? Andaming batang OFW na sinosuportahan parents nila. Binibilhan nang bahay at kung ano ano pa. Marami sa mga OFW bata.

Pedro on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 12:48 am 



Ok so you’re talking about child abuse. That happens everywhere. The specific plot you gave ” I mean kung ang matatanda may kasalanan di nila inaamin tapos pag kita nila alam nang bata, and gagawin ay bubugbugin ang bata para hindi sila mabuking. ” I see that in telenovelas. Really sad. But if your confusing the philippine “old school” way of disciplining kids with a bayabas tree branch or belt, I was raised that way and I don’t see a problem with the way I turned out, so I disagree.

As far as parents who will breed like rats and raise children hoping that their kids one day can take care of them, this is definitely a culture of poverty that must me addressed. How can the youth break this cycle? Family planning. If grown men want to support their parents or not, that’s their choice. I don’t see a need for all this drama.

grd on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 12:53 am 



now what cvj is the guy your old man?

grd on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 2:36 am 



cvj said:
“As i’ve said before, i think Ellen’s blog has the pulse of the majority of Filipinos. That was proven by the results of the Senatorial elections especially in the case of Trillanes.”

is that so cvj? here are some comments from ellenville courtesy of PTT:

“After this legal wishy-washy had been exhausted, i hope that the good Senator Trillanes will have the guts to call AGAIN the people to exercise their inherent right to remove a government that, aside from not having a clear mandate, has become too oppressive and deceptively abusive.

Lead us Senator.

Call your people, Sir, and they shall come. ”

“I like your comment, “Call your people, Sir, and they shall come.”

“I second the motion to that one ! ”

so cvj, is that the latest pulse of the majority? “Led as sir and we will follow”. when is it coming?

cocoy on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 9:07 am 



grd;
was it you that is talking to me? I am sorry I did not noticed you, you are hiding at someone’s back. I don’t deal business with a bodyguard nor ride in a misfiring engine, whose behind the wheel is a camel rider nor wear a kiddie gloves. You sounds like Ellen’s reject, a paste and cut blogger.

cvj on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 12:03 pm 



grd, to me mlq3’s blog site roughly* represents the sensibilities of the EDSA Dos crowd which has fragmented to different camps because of Gloria’s illegitimacy. ellen’s site roughly* represents EDSA Tres and therefore the Filipino majority. Our nation can only move forward if both sections of our society engage in an honest dialogue, but that can only be built on an atmosphere of mutual respect. As it is, i see that many over here still subscribe to your (and Benign0’s) attitude of refusing to empathize and understand and instead assuming an air of unwarranted superiority. Just as One Voice is supposed to reunite the EDSA Dos crowd, there should be an equivalent attempt to do so between EDSA Dos and EDSA Tres camps. As it is, post election dynamics seems to be going the opposite direction.

*Please note emphasis on the ‘roughly’.

BrianB on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 12:15 pm 



This sites Alexa since the Tag Fiesta has been steadily rising:

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=quezon.ph

Hm.

Pedro on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 1:22 pm 



One thing that I’m starting to like about this blog is that people are FREE to reject opinions coming from any EDSA lynch mob group.

grd on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 3:06 pm 



cvj, edsa dos here and edsa tres there? so, edsa 2 + edsa 3 = edsa 4 (with both sections of society engaging in an honest dialogue), the nation moves forward. is that it?

you know i think the solution is much simpler than that. people just have to follow the constitution, follow the laws of the land and implement them, then this country will surely move forward. but until we are the kind of people who follow blindly what our so called leaders tell us, until we kept on patronizing the kind of politicians that we have right now, add to that the hero worshipping (i.e. “Lead us Sir and we’ll follow”) then for sure we will have edsa 4, 5, 6… still counting (when will it stop?). because, these diverse camps with their own personal agendas (wanting nationalism) will always be fragmented after a brief respite from squabbling and will not run out of issues. take for example the latest GO debacle. people should learn from lessons of the past.

by the way, you mentioned edsa 2 and edsa 3 are roughly represented by mlq3’s and ellen’s. i don’t think that’s really the case here. not even close since most of these people are not even living in the country anymore or participants of those events (edsa 2 and edsa 3 don’t even represent the whole country). blogging is simply a self-indulgent exercise as what’s mentioned here and as per DJB, “it is a pure, democratic struggle among ideas.” and plain rhetoric to me.

Rom on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 4:28 pm 



cvj:just a minor quibble – edsa tres cannot represent the majority of the nation, whether numerically or ideologically.

cvj on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 5:08 pm 



grd, more like edsa 2 + edsa 3 = edsa 1. after democratic restoration, we had a real chance at unity. Unfortunately, the old oligarchy reasserted itself and meaningful reforms like land reform was watered down. FVR continued with a trickle down approach. Most of the poor then latched on to Erap (who is also a member of the elite) whose poor governance led to EDSA Dos and the EDSA Tres backlash. Of course, subsequently it was revealed that the moral pretentions of the EDSA Dos crowd was largely hypocritical since they would not apply the same standards to Gloria Arroyo.

I don’t judge things from the way the leaders of both movements have behaved since most of whom are opportunists anyway. I put more weight at the aspirations that drove people to join both actions. One represented the desire for good governance while the other for universal (and not just elitist) justice.

I do not mean to ignore the likes of you who also inhabit this space which is why i had to emphasize “roughly“. I believe you represent the sizable apathetic sector (which is what many of the EDSA Dos people have become). As such, you are a friend of the status quo which is precisely what needs to be changed.

You should not mischaracterize the thinking people at Ellen’s as they are way ahead of the politicians in terms of sense of justice and nobility of aspirations. They are the ones who are shaping tomorrow’s leaders to the horror of our traditional politicians.

cvj on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 5:21 pm 



Rom, that’s not what the recent Senatorial elections tell me. I believe Manolo when he says that the middle class largely boycotted the last elections which is why i think the results reflects the will of the masa i.e. the driving force behind EDSA Tres. Of course, now that the elections are over, the initiative is back to the Austero-types. Unfortunately (in my view) or fortunately (in your view), it seems that Manolo (by accepting Zubiri) has also adopted a bit of this mindset.

Devilsadvc8 on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 5:26 pm 



“kaya nga sayang yung oportunidad noon jan. 2001 eh. kung idinaan nila sa may 2001 election (constitutional) ito instead of going the edsa dos (extra con) route, we wouldn’t be having the problems we are having today.”

eh sa di na nga makaantay ang mga demonyo. atat nang maupo sa pwesto. ayun, they knew exactly that what they were doing was rebellion. But as far as rebellions go, it is only a crime if you lose it. otherwise, the rebels are now the legitimate govt.

my interest is being piqued by these chars you constantly refer to as Ellenites. im almost tempted to visit her site. but banning people for no other reason than they disagree with you is no way to impress me. it seems she’s cultivating an environment for a cult.

well, to each their own.

but i don’t see why after kicking out everyone they disagreed with, they now go after these same people in sites they frequent. i guess Ellenites are not having fun anymore now that they have no one to disagree with and verbally abuse.

personally, i believe people should only be banned when they don’t post anything more substantial than curses (directed at other posters) and personal attacks. and then, ONLY AFTER having been warned that further behavior will not be tolerated. at least you have to give the offender the chance to air their side, and apologize if needed.

banning is only a last resort that should be used to prevent your site from degenerating into a flame site. otherwise, a healthy debate never hurt anyone.

mlq3 on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 7:29 pm 



ellen does not ban people on the basis of their disagreeing with her. she maintains a very liberally-inclined blog, as far as comments are concerned.

PTT on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 8:01 pm 



As far as comments on Ellen’s blog, yes she does maintain a lot of “Special People” very entertaining in my opinion.

Devilsadvc8 on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 10:44 pm 



“ellen does not ban people on the basis of their disagreeing with her. she maintains a very liberally-inclined blog, as far as comments are concerned.”

ah, if that is the case, thanks for correcting me Manolo. i got this impression from the others who’ve talked abt her. i guess now I must really visit her site and see for myself to be fair.

i’ll try and be such a kj and anti-ellen w/o breaking any of her rules and let’s see what happens.

Rom on Thu, 2nd Aug 2007 11:01 pm 



cvj:aren’t you romanticizing tres just a bit much? the masa was not the driving force. it was tito sotto and all the rest egging the people on to ‘retake’ malakanyang. and seriously, do you really think that that was anything than a staged ‘mass movement’ gone awry? you really think that the masses who were there understood what was going on beyond the ‘eat the rich’ frenzy whipped up by people who wanted to be restored to power?

as for the last elections, why would you say the middle class boycotted (i’m sorry, i haven’t been reading this blog that long)? because it seems to me that that assumption is key to your characterization of tres as embodiment of the will of the people.

Devilsadvc8 on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 12:54 am 



crap. i must be logged-in to comment. well, that certainly sucks. im too lazy to register, much less log-in. will be on read mode.

rego on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 2:48 am 



“This sites Alexa since the Tag Fiesta has been steadily rising:

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=quezon.ph

Hm.”
——————————————————–
You’re right! But that is really nothing compared to a rickey.org. owned by a pinoy living in nyc. I guess people just wanted more to be entertained

rego on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 2:52 am 



http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=rickey.org

benign0 on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 8:04 am 



“the masa was not the driving force. it was tito sotto and all the rest egging the people on to ‘retake’ malakanyang. and seriously, do you really think that that was anything than a staged ‘mass movement’ gone awry? you really think that the masses who were there understood what was going on beyond the ‘eat the rich’ frenzy whipped up by people who wanted to be restored to power? ”

For that matter, anyone who keeps latching on to this overly romanticised notion that the masa “drive” anything needs to modernise a bit.

It is IDEAS that drive change in society. Communism and Democracy are ideas. Turning these ideas into slogans, taglines, placards, TV ads, rivetting speeches, and other instruments of mind control (they work mainly on the masa) is a SCIENCE that is well-honed by the best of politicians (or at least those that are the most thick-skinned).

So we should stop propagating this foolish notion that the masa are the driving force of anything. They drive jack squat in my opinion. Revolutions of the masa were fueled mainly by empty stomachs. But it took talented people who could turn IDEAS into half-witted SLOGANS that simpletons could relate with to “drive” change.

Even in the corporate world, you will see lots of executives requiring their analysts to summarise stuff in PowerPoint slides using 3-5 bullet points before they could present complex ideas to the rank-and-file.

Bencard on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 9:32 am 



what animal is “edsa tres? i understand there was an erap loyalist mob that attempted to storm malacanang shortly after PGMA assumed the presidency in 2001 to put him back to power. edsa tres? no wonder the authentic edsa 1 and 2 have lost their magic. edsa as a symbol has been debased.

mlq3 on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 10:26 am 



bencard, here’s two articles i wrote:

the first, on the various edsas that co-existed within edsa dos:

http://arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=91322&d=24&m=1&y=2007

the second, my account of edsa tres:

http://www.quezon.ph/columns.php?view=article&id=15

cvj on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 12:18 pm 



Rom, it only looks like i’m romanticizing EDSA Tres if you compare it to the elite and middle class’ purely cynical viewpoint. I believe that the masa (just like the middle class) is always on the look out for a wise and just leader. As Tito Sotto eventually found out last May, it is not tied to something as shallow as celebrity status. We can choose to view EDSA Tres as a huge shabu session and they in turn can view EDSA Dos as a Globe/SMART text party but that would be missing the essence of what brought our respective groups together by the hundreds of thousands (or even millions) to the streets.

For the middle class boycott, you can read the previous blog entries of Manolo as well as John Nery’s entries in Inquirer’s current blog.

Benign0, it is presumptuous to think that the masa does not have any ideas. You may be materially better off but, on the average, they are equipped with the same intellectual faculties and many of them have a superior set of values when compared to you. If you cannot see this, it is no one’s fault but your own. For example, Mao’s revolution derived its strength from China’s peasants. The defeated nationalists led by Chang Kai Shek realized this much which is why they immediately instituted genuine land reform in Taiwan after they landed there in 1949. In a corollary fashion, vacuity (as Rom demonstrates in her blog) also cuts across class lines. Anyway, as Rom also shows, vacuity and deep thought are not mutually exclusive. We all have our moments.

cvj on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 12:29 pm 



One more thing Benign0, regarding your remark:

Even in the corporate world, you will see lots of executives requiring their analysts to summarise stuff in PowerPoint slides using 3-5 bullet points before they could present complex ideas to the rank-and-file.

In my more than eighteen years in the Corporate World, from first hand experience i can tell you that more often than not, it is actually the rank and file who summarizes their complex points into 3 to 5 bullet points for the consumption of the Executives. (Of course, a lot gets lost in the translation, but that’s another story.)

Rom on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 1:54 pm 



cvj:sorry to say this, but you didn’t really say anything, did you? we’re not even talking about how the masses are on the look out for a leader (i agree), and how celebrity is no longer a great determinant of political victory (i agree, but only with regard to show business celebrity. there are other kinds, like political celebrity which escudero and cayetano both milked to perfection). but all of that is beside the point. We were referring to the actual tres event that you say reflected the will of the majority. not necessarily, it did not. in fact, not even likely that it did. The incontrovertible fact is that people like sotto (and yes, this is the context i was referring to him in, not the misrep’ed context you tried to create by tying up the reference to the elections) goaded the masses into storming the palace. It was a manufactured phenom, therefore, and being so, how can it be said to accurately reflect the will of the masses. If anything, it reflected the will of just-ousted-desperate-to-get-back-power bloc as manifested through the masses. If, however, it did reflect the will of the masses (and sotto’s hate mongering was just a catalytic spark) as you so insist, then we should have seen more sympathetic uprisings all across the country than we actually did (did we see any at all?).

as for the boycott, yes i know what mlq3 thinks. and what john nery thinks. but why do YOU think they are right. passing off the ratiocinations of others as a substitute for one’s own is not a practice i agree with, unfortunately. and i really really want to know why YOU think the middle class boycotted the elections.

cvj on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 7:20 pm 



Rom, the actual tres event did not start with the march to Malacanang. Rather, it started a few days earlier and, at that point, the crowd’s outrage at their President Estrada’s arrest was genuine enough. It can only be called ‘manufactured’ in the sense that Civil Society provoked such a reaction by its callous disregard for Erap’s constituency. After May 1, the movement fizzled out because there was a backlash against that day’s violent events. The elections a few weeks later which brought victory to the administration senatorial slate also provided a measure of legitimacy to the EDSA Dos takeover. Nevertheless, the elections of May 2007 and 2007 prove that the spirit of EDSA Tres is alive and well while that of EDSA Dos has withered to the point that it has to rely on Mike Arroyo’s corrupt Generals for survival.

If you can, try to look beyond the incontrovertible fact of our political leaders’ manipulations. That’s almost a given. Rather, look into the people’s reactions as even our cynical politicians know that it is the latters’ aspirations that is the real source of power. It may eventually turn out that Escudero and/or Cayetano have been acting all along, but we the voters certainly were not.

Regarding my belief in the Middle Class boycott, i have read and evaluated Manolo and John Nery’s line of reasoning and anecdotal evidence and find them satisfactory. I’m puzzled by your insistence in ‘originality’ as if that makes or break my argument when it is normal to often rely on others for these things. Even Newton admits that he had to stand on the shoulders of giants.

(On your accusing me of misrepresentation, it would have been more polite if you sought clarification first. After all, maybe i just skipped over some steps in my chain of reasoning.)

cvj on Fri, 3rd Aug 2007 7:23 pm 



Correction: The above should read “…the elections of May 2004 and 2007…”

Rom on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 2:19 am 



cvj:as you said, the outrage at Joseph Estrada’s arrest was natural. but to make the leap from that to saying the whole thing as it played out reflects the will of the majority is to squirrel the argument in the worst way. as you said, the elections in 2004 went mostly GMA’s way and that totally invalidates the theory that the tres crowd held any sort of majority.

the assumption – even if just for the sake of argument – that the 2004 polls were dirty holds water only for the presidency. [and even then, no one has yet to claim that if the cheating had not occured, gma would have lost. as a matter of fact, all major exit polls - exit, not pre - at that time (conducted by abs-cbn, radyo veritas, even sws)showed that gma won, and by the margin proclaimed by the comelec.] so i fail to see the relevance of this part of your argument.

as for pointing to the opposition’s win in 2007, this was no longer the result of outrage against the arrest of Estrada, but outrage against Gloria, and the outrage did not come solely from the Erap crowd but also from those who decided they made a mistake with GMA in 2004. the majority in 2007 is simply not the same handful of people who reacted so strongly to Estrada’s arrest; and those who joined the opposition bandwagon do not all necessarily wave the flag for Estrada either.

And so again, the results of the 2007 polls cannot possibly be interpreted as an extension of the tres spirit you are trying to characterize as the will of the majority.

I do not insist on originality so much as i insist on seeing that you have some basis other than what this person said or what that other person claimed. especially when what that person said or that other person claimed is based solely on anecdotal evidence and their “line of reasoning.” if you rely only things like that, then someone might come along someday and be able to convince you, by dint of clever reasoning and convincing story-telling that the moon is made of green cheese.

of course, you’re never gonna be convinced of that because you know from volumes of empirical data easily available on the net and through the judicious application of math that the moon is NOT made of green cheese, but that’s exactly my point. you don’t have empirical data to prove that the middle class boycotted the elections. mlq3 and nery may believe so, but what they believe has no inherent advantage or greater validity over what someone else might believe who believes otherwise.

having said that, i am going to have to accept that you BELIEVE the midclass boycotted. but that assertion cannot be considered proven. not by a long shot.

but it was a misrep, and no offense meant either. you may have had a reason for framing it that way, but without explaining why – or skipping the links in your chain of reasoning – you made it appear that that was the context in which sotto was mentioned. if you had explained your reasoning, it would not have been a misrep. and i was under no obligation to ask you to clarify. you should have made sure you were clear from the get go. otherwise, how is an argument ever to be resolved if either protagonist could always say “but wait, what i meant to say was …”

although of course, maybe i could have said it more politely. And so, if this puck has offended, Gentleman, do not reprehend. If you pardon, we will mend.

Bencard on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 5:38 am 



mlq3, as you suggested i read your edsa “tres” article. with due respect, i’m not impressed. just one question: how did estrada accumulate his “fortunes”, supporting multiple families of his, with no visible means of support, financing candidacies and reported power grab attempts even from detention? it was not from show business, was it? you are not contending that all the reasons for edsa dos were false and contrived by his “enemies”, are you?

i’m not a historian like you but i’m old enough to know the score, aside from being an avid student of philippine contemporary political history. i know a revisionist account when i see one.

cvj on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 6:05 am 



Rom, in terms of aspirations, the crowd that went to the streets in EDSA Tres is largely the same crowd that formed FPJ’s base in May 2004 and voted Opposition in May 2007. Even Benign0 understands that. To characterize this EDSA Tres crowd as a ‘handful’ is not historically accurate. It is true that disenchanted supporters of Gloria Arroyo (like me) have joined them in the last elections but we are no more than a small minority. Anyway, i’m glad someone from the pro-Arroyo camp finally [but belatedly] accepted that the elections was not about Erap but rather about Gloria Arroyo.

Regarding the May 2004 elections, it is not true as you claim that “no one has yet to claim that if the cheating had not occured, gma would have lost“. Manolo’s, Winnie Monsod’s and Tony Abaya’s contention that Gloria Arroyo actually won (even without cheating) stand out because they are contrarian. As for the exit polls that you refer to, as John Marzan, among others, points out, there were major anomalies especially with the discrepancy between the NCR Exit Poll and Actual results. (SWS predicted that GMA would win by 500K votes, but the actual count subsequently showed that FPJ won by 500K votes.)

On the matter of the Middle Class boycott, I agree that more data in the form of surveys or official COMELEC figures is needed to establish whether or not such an event did take place. However, the absence of the above should not stop us from making an informed judgment especially when anecdotal evidence (which is after all a form of empirical data) is available. At the very least, the anecdotal evidence presented serves as a basis for our null hypothesis which could then be subjected to confirmation or rejection upon arrival of properly collected statistics.

On the alleged misrepresentation on my part, you put the burden on me making sure that i was “clear from the get go”. I strongly agree that we all have the responsibility to make ourselves clear. However, i do not yet possess the ability to read minds so i am unable to anticipate with 100 per cent accuracy what would be clear or not clear to you.

Rom on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 11:16 am 



cvj:again with the unfounded speculations.”the crowd that went to the streets in EDSA Tres is largely the same crowd that formed FPJ’s base in May 2004 and voted Opposition in May 2007.” care to substantiate that?

contrarian? contrary to whose opinion, cvj? and maybe the survey results should be reviewed again in their totality, without preferential emphasis placed on what is traditionally an opposition bulwark.

anecdotal evidence is not empirical data. and as you said, the hypothesis is subject to confirmation and should therefore not be held up as gospel truth. which is what i’ve been saying all along.

no one can read minds that well, uncle (which explains all the condescension), but in the interest of clarity, one must always assume that one needs to be always 100% clear, regardless of who one talks to.

and one last question: is labeling someone pro-arroyo (mostly on the basis of disagreement with those who proudly calim to be anti-arroyo)a way of discounting their arguments? it seems to me to be a disturbing trend hereabouts, to dismiss disagreement as coming from someone anti-arroyo and therefore not worth engaging. if that were true, then whose disagreements will you engage? will you entertain disagreement at all? two words come to mind. “circle” and the other one rhymes with …. “-erk”

mlq3 on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 11:24 am 



bencard, de gustibus… and so, on to your estrada-related question. he had, going into politics, an advantage others didn’t -a fortune gained from his own work and career.

thereafter, the growth of his fortune was related, i suppose, to his being mayor of san juan. as president, he seems to have stuck to a small-town mayor’s mentality when it came to fund raising and worse, he ignored the well-established conventions of maintaining discretion, etc. so he paid for it, politically and so on.

his crookedness is not in dispute. it will probably be proven in court. neither is the antipathy felt towards him by the middle and upper classes.

as i said in one of the links i provided, my view is that there were two edsa dos: the first was the spontaneous outpouring of public outrage over the second envelope, an outrage stoked by the steady -and validated- opposition to estrada in the wake of the “i accuse” speech. the second edsa dos was a latin american style coup with people power characteristics.

the same distinctions should apply to edsa tres. there was a spontaneous, genuine, aspect to it, however manufactured the rest might have been.

and really, it’s the closest i’ve ever seen to a bastille moment in our country. when it failed, the long-term effects were, to my mind, quite interesting. since those participating in edsa tres viewed what they were doing as people power, but the middle and upper class vetoed it, saying it wasn’t genuine people power, those in edsa tres gave up on people power altogether.

Devilsadvc8 on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 12:17 pm 



Rom,

what I will say will by no means be empirical data, though at least I can attest to the truthfulness of it. I belong to the middle class, and everyone I know, friends, family, co-workers, did not vote in the last election. the number of people I know may certainly not be representative of the middle class (certainly not all of them belong to it) but I being in this group, would certainly follow the logic that I would be moving among this group, and that the majority of people I know, would belong to it as well. You can take this as a “rough sampling” of your “data.”

What shocks me is not that they did not vote. What shocks me are their reasons for it. many of those I asked, are annoyed whenever I posed this question. many would frown angrily and say: what’s the use?

and many would add: me pagpipilian ba?

and if I did not persuade my wife to vote, I would have known no one who voted last elections.

and that is the truth.

mlq3,

yes, it was the closest to a bastille moment we’ve ever had. but it was too small, and those who led it didn’t feel the same outrage as those they’ve led. the leaders were all fake, and they failed to attract more who would’ve joined them if they were more genuine.

but i believe this moment would still come. and that this moment is inevitable.

bencard,

Estrada unlike many other politicians, was already rich even before he became a politician. compare that to those who started out dirt poor and suddenly became rich once they were in office. in this regard, it is difficult to say, how much ERAP stole.

These guys stole more shamelessly than ERAP did.

mlq3 on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 12:23 pm 



devilsadvoc8: yes, i’ve often said, if the leaders of edsa 3 had led from the front and not the rear, the government would have fallen. if they’d moved before the gov’t pressured iglesia ni cristo and el shaddai to back out, it would have been a revolution to rival 1986.

but i don’t know about it being inevitable: edsa 3 proved a warning to those in edsa 2, that they didn’t have the monopoly on people power anymore. whether consciously or unconciously, the result has been to accelerate migration abroad or disengagement from politics at home, and pursuit of “alternatives” like gawad kalinga.

on the part of the edsa tres constituency, it’s a withdrawal from politics, too, and participation in democractic processes only on a mercenary basis (and i’d argue, more mercenary than ever before). so status quo for everyone, and ironically, the status quo prevents anything more extreme from emerging.

Rom on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 12:49 pm 



devilsadvoc8:thanks. personal knowledge counts big.

cvj on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 2:33 pm 



Rom, any information that is obtained through observation and experience (including the one Devils presented above) is empirical data. (It is contrasted with information that is derived from the reasoning process.) You may question its quality or sufficiency but not its categorization.

In everyday reality, more often than not we have to deal with probabilities since gospel truths are few and far between. We often have to form working hypotheses with the data available and proceed from there. That is why there is such a thing as epistemic probability.

Waiting for something to become gospel truth is neither practical nor logical. Witness the self-evident ridiculousness of Bencard’s assertions. Of course, the awareness that we are working with probabilities and not with ‘Gospel Truths’ should always make us open to changing our minds and keeping the lines of communication open (no matter how seemingly ridiculous the other party sounds).

My belief that the crowd that went to the streets in EDSA Tres is largely the same crowd that formed FPJ’s base in May 2004 and voted Opposition in May 2007 is based on such empirical observations which i’ve taken in over the years. It is hardly unfounded speculation as many facts corroborate it.

In my comment above, i specifically referred to Manolo as being contrarian among the opposition (in believing that Arroyo won the 2004 elections) so i don’t see why we bring non-oppositionists into the picture as you suggest.

Regarding what you tell me about clarity, you make it sound as if i’m arguing against the very concept, which in light of what i just wrote, is a misrepresentation of my position.

As to classifying you as pro-Arroyo, for all practical purposes, you are. You write like you’re the daughter of Bencard and Sassy Lawyer and you are able to shift between the two positions with agility. As to using this label as a way of discounting arguments, i have so far spent a couple of hours of my life responding to you, so i don’t believe that applies to me. (I had to google ‘circle jerk’ – new phrase for the day, thanks.)

Rom on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 10:51 pm 



cvj:you speak of facts, and i presume that you presume i know what these facts are. and yet, none have been presented – i.e., no facts have been shown to point directly to your assertion that “the crowd that went to the streets in EDSA Tres is largely the same crowd that formed FPJ’s base in May 2004 and voted Opposition in May 2007.”

“Regarding what you tell me about clarity, you make it sound as if i’m arguing against the very concept, which in light of what i just wrote, is a misrepresentation of my position.” I really don’t know where this came from. I don’t think you’re arguing against clarity, just that you’re not being clear. and it cannot be a misrepresentation of an idea if that which makes it a misrep comes AFTER the presentation of the idea in a particular light or context. so, “what you just wrote” cannot possibly make what i said previously a misrep because i could not have possibly known “what you wrote” when I made my statement. the most that you can hope for is to point out that i was mistaken. which i wasn’t.

and as to your final crack, maybe you think i am pro-arroyo because i don’t automatically dismiss everything she does as wrong. and because i demand more solid proof than anecdotes, theories, righteous umbrage with which to crucify her. which probably also leads you to say that i shift positions with agility (implying what, I wonder).

and yes, uncle, you do use this label to discount my arguments – not by ignoring them as you pointed out – but by refusing to meet them head on with statements like this: “If you can, try to look beyond the incontrovertible fact of our political leaders’ manipulations. That’s almost a given. Rather, look into the people’s reactions as even our cynical politicians know that it is the latters’ aspirations that is the real source of power. It may eventually turn out that Escudero and/or Cayetano have been acting all along, but we the voters certainly were not.”

That’s a long and roundabout way of saying that if-i-could-only-see-it-your-way-then-i-would-realize-that-i-was-wrong. well, the only way i can see it your way is if there is reason to. and so far, all i have from you are protestations of the acceptability of anecdotes (which are intrinsically unreliable as they are particularly susceptible to mutation into pure fiction over several retellings), insistence that one need not demand provable truth if probabilities are available, and a boatload of condescension.

unfortunately, it seems we have reached equilibrium, uncle. you are convinced that i am a dyed-in-the-wool arroyo-ite who refuses to be convinced that the woman can walk on water; and i am convinced that your anti-arroyo position has you absolutely convinced of the rightness of your theories.

ironically, we didn’t even start this thread arguing about arroyo, but whether or not the edsa tres crowd reflects the will of the majority. you haven’t proven that, and i no longer expect you to.

cheers!

Devilsadvc8 on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 11:37 pm 



“but i don’t know about it being inevitable: edsa 3 proved a warning to those in edsa 2, that they didn’t have the monopoly on people power anymore. whether consciously or unconciously, the result has been to accelerate migration abroad or disengagement from politics at home, and pursuit of “alternatives” like gawad kalinga.”

It is inevitable Manolo. And the only way to avert it is if serious poverty alleviation happen. and the accelerated migration will contribute more sharply to this. this will empty the Phils of a great number of people who would’ve been a great help in nation building. the population pyramid would suddenly have no barrier bet the rich and the poor (as mostly, only middle class families have the greater and the most chances of emigrating) the wealth gap would increase greatly. even alternatives like GK would be hard put to cope and cover for the deficiencies of govt service. by then, many of the people working in these NGOS would be afflicted by a severe case of hopelessness, and either they have already left the Phils or will then be planning to. collapse of these same orgs would precipitate this bastille moment. even if GMA steps down and somebody else becomes president, this event has all the possibilty of happening if wealth is not spread around more evenly.

Devilsadvc8 on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 11:46 pm 



btw Rom, you’re welcome. and just to give you an idea of how many these people whom I know did not vote…

I have 6 siblings. 4 are old enough to vote. both my parents are still alive. i have 26 classmates when i was in college, one of them became my wife. i have 4 very close friends. our maid and her family i can include too. a lot of friends in my town as well. i don’t kow abt members of their family, but if they are any indication, their family members might’ve cared less as well.

all of them i asked. you know the answer. either i belong to a group of very apathetic people, or there is something very wrong with me.

Devilsadvc8 on Sat, 4th Aug 2007 11:49 pm 



sws should make a survey at how many people voted last election and to what social class they belonged to. perhaps this would paint a picture of how bloated the voter’s list was, and how many votes were manufactured out of thin air. (and how many registered voters, who did not vote, had their votes used nonetheless)

cvj on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 3:06 am 



Devils, Halalan Marangal (halal.interdoc.org/halal/) has some of the figures that you are looking for in their Audit Report #4.

Devilsadvc8 on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 4:06 am 



tnx cvj

cvj on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 4:54 am 



Rom, i did not presume that you knew what my facts are, only that i formed my beliefs on the basis of observations i’ve made. I’ll explain them for you in my blog as and when i feel like it.

Your second paragraph is not clear to me so i cannot respond to it.

I do not believe you are pro-Arroyo for the reason you stated. I believe you are pro-Arroyo because just like Bencard and Sassy Lawyer, you have chosen to act as a lawyer for her position. In addition, you have chosen to ignore cheating in Maguindanao and support Zubiri who is Gloria Arroyo’s ally.

Just the same, my statement that you quoted in your fourth paragraph has nothing to do with you being pro-Arroyo. I’m just asking you (and others) to look at the EDSA’s and elections from the point of view of the aspirations of the people who joined these mass actions.

Many tend to look at EDSA Two as a conspiracy by Mike Arroyo, Chavit Singson and the Generals while EDSA Three as a rabble-rousing exercise by those who want to take power back. Focusing on these previous plot and counterplot is useless except to historians and gossips.

I think it’s more useful to examine the grievances of the crowds that supported them because those grievances still exist and can be used as a basis for dialogue and potential reconciliation.

BrianB on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 7:53 am 



ROM,

Good argument, but when it comes to politicians, generalizing and quick judgments, I beleive, are key. These are not regular people on the streets. That’s why it’s so difficult here in the Philippines. You really have to judge politicians characters, almost all of whom have, well, a politicians’ personality and character. In “better” countries politicians are scared of people’s wrath. Not here. Here the people are easily manipulated, easily pacified and easily blackmailed. That’s the problem: the most basic of checks and balances is not even in the picture.

BrianB on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 7:57 am 



ROM,

Have a confession. Been reading Smoke. Are you in advertising by any chance? Like the little Mastercard copy.

Rom on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 9:45 am 



cvj:it’s sad, really, how you try to always bring everything down to the level of pro and anti. and this – “Rom, i did not presume that you knew what my facts are, only that i formed my beliefs on the basis of observations i’ve made. I’ll explain them for you in my blog as and when i feel like it” – this is classic. Hahaha.

cvj thunders from the sky: I have facts, but I will only reveal them at the proper time, and only when I’m good and ready! In the meantime, let my insinuations percolate through your consciousness until you convince yourself that i am right, so that maybe, i won’t have to present my facts at all because, just between you and me, I don’t really have any. Bwahahaha!

Just kidding, uncle.

Well, just a little.

Ok.

Not really.

LOL

and it’s pathetic that you have to bring in zubiri. what? can’t substantiate why the tres crowd reflects the majority will that you have to marshal all the stock arguments about cheating and whatnot? haha. and if you think i lawyer for arroyo, you know not whereof you speak.

brianb: i don’t recommend generalizations and quick judgments of anybody – even politicians. in fact, i have an issue with cvj indulging in generalizations and quick judgments about me. but then again, that’s just me. and i’m not in advertising, uncle.

cvj on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 2:36 pm 



Rom, i made that statement not as a thunder from the sky but in the spirit of i owe you an explanation. To do this however, i have to figure out a way to de-familiarize what to me is obvious and self-evident.

For example, to me it is obvious that the EDSA Tres crowd can by no means be described as being a “handful” (especially since they are bigger than the EDSA Dos crowd), yet that’s the quantifier that you used.

You also assert that it is not the masa that was the driving force but rather Tito Sotto and other pro-Erap politicians. To me, it is obvious that what drove the masa were its aspirations for a democratic order which was taken away from them in the previous months. Tito Sotto and other politicians were just[cynically] tapping into this source of energy not unlike the way oil companies drill for oil. When Tito Sotto broke moved away from the source (i.e. the masa’s aspirations) and relied on his own celebrity pull as he did in May 2007, he failed to reach his objective.

You are of course free to accuse me of intellectual dishonesty if that’s what you feel like. Good faith tends to be the casualty of contentious discussions.

BrianB on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 4:06 pm 



ROM,

I repeat. We have a right, a duty to generalize and judge quickly when it comes to politicians.

BrianB on Sun, 5th Aug 2007 4:14 pm 



Yes Edsa Tres was genuine. I actually felt that it had been good for our society. The elite finally learned to fear the masses.

Bencard on Mon, 6th Aug 2007 2:29 am 



edsa “tres” was a copy cat exercise. just because it worked for edsa 1 & 2, it didn’t mean that if you manage to congregate a few hundred thousand unthinking mob (or even a ridiculous “count” of 3 million), you could topple a government. the cause must be worthwhile enough to capture the heart and mind of a decisive portion of society, certainly not to restore to power a disgraced leader whose alleged sins were almost visible to the naked eye

grd on Mon, 6th Aug 2007 4:59 am 



Cvj said, “I believe you represent the sizable apathetic sector (which is what many of the EDSA Dos people have become). As such, you are a friend of the status quo which is precisely what needs to be changed. “

what do you mean with your above statement? it’s too quick and easy for you to judge other people. Rom, is right in painting your character, a typical mindset of those people frequenting ellen’s blog. what made you think anyway that we belong to the apathetic sector? and which sector do you belong by the way (or you’re a jury and judge combined?) just because you are critical here in this blog against the arroyo administration and to those people you call pro-arroyo, you think you’ve done already the country a great service? if that is your gauge for being non-apathetic, I can tell you I have done far worst than what you’re doing now.

and what is this change that you’re talking about? you mean another edsa? please, enough of your obsession. sorry to disappoint you, but I have my own analysis and judgment too. you should know by now that without the element of the military (which I think the reason why ellen has been very busy trying to hype up the ongoing brouhaha involving the military) any uprising by the masa will not prosper.

Cvj said, “You should not mischaracterize the thinking people at Ellen’s as they are way ahead of the politicians in terms of sense of justice and nobility of aspirations. They are the ones who are shaping tomorrow’s leaders to the horror of our traditional politicians.”

shaping tomorrow’s leaders? tell me what have they done so far, other than the cursing of Gloria and those they deemed as Gloria paid hacks and asslickers? do you really think they represent the majority? those people who are mostly out of the country and as DJB said are just visiting the site for their “scream therapy” sessions? I even bet majority of those 20 or so people did not bother voting in the last election. the thinking people my ass! with too much hatred and foams in their mouth, they can’t even think clearly and identify who’s the enemy and who’s not.

Cvj said, “Our nation can only move forward if both sections of our society engage in an honest dialogue, but that can only be built on an atmosphere of mutual respect.”

wrong. our problem mainly is due to lack of patriotism (love of country) amongst the people. Lack of patriotism from our leaders, lack of patriotism from those big businesses who runs the country’s economy and lack of patriotism from ordinary citizens. Everything is about self interest. Patriotism is what our country needs to move forward.

cvj on Mon, 6th Aug 2007 5:31 am 



grd, if it’s true that you’ve done ‘far worst’ than me then i stand corrected and apologize for calling you apathetic. However, i can only judge you by your current online persona and from what i have read, you are a supporter of the status quo which to me is as good as being apathetic. As for people power, the military are people too so they are part of that equation.

I’m proud that you consider me as being typical of the people frequenting ellen’s blog.

I strongly agree with you on the need for patriotism which i see that in abundance among the commenters that frequent Ellen’s site. However, the issue for this decade is the cleavage between the middle class and the masa. Both camps mean well but the trust is not there. As BrianB said above, with EDSA Tres, The elite finally learned to fear the masses. This former EDSA Dos crowd (and the rest of the elite) has let this fear combined with deep-rooted condescension get in the way.

zeus on Mon, 6th Aug 2007 12:55 pm 



thanks for including my site on the list (although I rarely update my blog).I appreciate it.

grd on Tue, 7th Aug 2007 3:49 am 



cjv, judging from what I have read, I am certain that you are one of those people in elllen’s blog.

I didn’t realize there’s a new meaning now for patriotism.

so let me rephrase my previous statements. our problem mainly is due to lack of bigotry amongst the people. Lack of bigotry from our leaders, lack of bigotry from those big businesses who runs the country’s economy and lack of bigotry from ordinary citizens. everything is about self interest. Bigotry is what our country needs to move forward.

as for you and your kind, exactly the kind of people our country needs. you are the new patriots. so when are you going to make your move?

CAFFiend on Tue, 21st Aug 2007 1:23 am 



Thanks… but I see my blog more as an affront to good taste and “civil society” more so with my penchant for prolixity and “colorful” language. But still, Thank you.

CAFFiend on Tue, 21st Aug 2007 1:27 am 



My blog isn’t post Aug 2006, it started much earlier by several months. Actually, under the same Heading in a different site about a year earlier still but had to shut it down for reasons I have buried deep within my subconscious.

anthony scalia on Wed, 22nd Aug 2007 5:04 pm 



john marzan said:

“if i were her, i would have banned the likes of “anthony scalia” and “proudtobepinoy” AKA MR. OFF TOPIC (and his numerous alteregos) a LONG TIME AGO.”

BUTI NA LANG HINDI IKAW SI ELLEN!

And obviously you are not reading ellen’s blogs more often than i do.

The original ‘insultador’ ystakei is the one who gets away with the insults. And Ellen is letting her do it, without any censorship.

Why? Because ystakei accounts for 1/2 of the million hits of Ellen’s blog. Censor ystakei and to vapor goes the 500,000 hits of Ellen’s blogs.

“all the personal attacks coming from the pro-arroyo alternics were really disgusting (lalo na noong palapit na ang election period)”

Excuse me? personal attacks? from pro-arroyo alternics? Are you sure you REGULARLY (as in DAILY) visit Ellen’s blog?

By the way I am already banned from Ellen’s blog. Why? BECAUSE WHEN YSTAKEI INSULTED ME AGAIN, I INSULTED HER BACK!

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