Language Wars (updated)

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 1:46 pm 



The point Petitioners make about the Constitutional provision mandating the govt to “initiate and sustain the use of Pilipino as the medium of official communications and instruction” is utterly absurd.

“How many Supreme Court decisions for example have been rendered in Pilipino by the High Court itself? since the 1987 charter was ratified. NONE! How many have been translated into Pilipino? NONE! And if an adverse decision is rendered against them, will it be written in Filipino as Petitioners demand of the government, or do we expect the High Court to likewise participate in such patent absurdity?

And what of the Petitioners own official communication to the Supreme Court? It is guilty of the very charge they make against Respondents!

Thanks for this delicious fish in barrel, MLQ3.

janie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 1:58 pm 



DJB,

and to add.. our constitution is not in Filipino.

We call our pangulo, PRESIDENT (at least most of the time).

Government agencies are often referred to as DEPARTMENTS, BUREAUS, COMMISSIONS, ETC.

(sigh)

NineMoons on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:11 pm 



Thank you for the entry. It’s a help for me because I’ve been thinking about a strange idea for teaching English to Pinoys on the Internet, and the insights from all sides of the debate have been quite helpful.

Blackshama on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:11 pm 



There is a heap of evidence that learning and cognitive development is enhanced when learning is in the first language of the speaker.

This is most evident in learning numeracy and science.

Another point I want to make is that why is he use of Filipino is relegated to teaching the social sciences? Is the learning of social science better in Filipino? Is there a major cognitive difference in learning science and and social sciences? Why can’t we teach both in Filipino? or in English?

It seems that there is a perception that the social sciences are “less intellectualized” so Filipino is better in teaching it. This is language discrimination in our own country!

Social scientists should raise a howl!

I’m sure Filipino can be an effective medium in teaching science. We really don’t need to translate the Latin and Greek roots of scientific terms. So phylum can still be phylum.

I agree that English should be a second language. In fact the government should PROMOTE it. But imposing it is another matter. Students should learn it as a second language when their cognitive skills have been developed.

inidoro ni emilie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:24 pm 



“I agree that English should be a second language. In fact the government should PROMOTE it. But imposing it is another matter. Students should learn it as a second language when their cognitive skills have been developed.”

amen.

inidoro ni emilie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:26 pm 



but why only Pilipino? we are an archipelago of 100 languages spoken. i say, promote mother tongue education!
mother tongue first, english later.

inidoro ni emilie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:39 pm 



ninemoon,

been to your link.

singlish is no way near taglish or engalog. singlish is english, singapore style lah. while taglish is like you know making halo-halo kasi nga we are semi-lingual na in both languages. and engalog, ask the conos in the ateneo bench, pare.

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:43 pm 



“Amen” — that’s Latin ain’t it?

mlq3 on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:44 pm 



“Amen” is Hebrew.

http://www.etymonline.com/

inidoro ni emilie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 2:48 pm 



o siya, siya:

siya nawa.

Jeg on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 3:24 pm 



So now we’re allowing a legally-mandated language? What next? Will we also allow the government to ban certain words? The government should stay out of this and leave it to educators to choose which language is most effective in specific subjects and specific classrooms. We have already pushed native languages to insignificance by mandating Filipino and English.

English is the de facto official language of government. There’s no need to legislate it. There is no de facto language of education, and none should be mandated by fiat.

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 3:33 pm 



I think it’s the academic and media elites just working off their guilty consciences and loathing their personal success, at least in public. It’s a kind of self-conscious radical chic.

Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 3:38 pm 



What is absurd is for someone to learn how to speak, read, and write in a second language first before he can study math and science.

Let our kids study basic math and science first in their own first language even if we have to use technical terms in English (Tagalog: Ang radius ay kalahati ng diameter. Bikol: An radius ay kabanga kan diameter. What’s wrong with that?), while at the same time learning how to speak, read, and write in English as a second language. Once they have acquired enough competence in English, they can access materials written in English. The Japanese do it. The Koreans do it. The Chinese do it. The French do it. Why can’t we?

Try studying math or science in Japanese while taking up basic Nippongo lessons. Absurd? Just as I thought.

NineMoons on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 4:01 pm 



@ emilie

I was kind of under the idea that Singlish also incorporated other languages [Chinese, Malay, etc.] into its syntax.

Which was really not the point of including Singlish in that part of my entry – my point was that are Taglish and Engalog creoles, pidgins [as Singlish has been characterized by some], or just local adaptations of the English language?

john marzan on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 4:04 pm 



It’s all the communists fault.

manuelbuencamino on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 4:22 pm 



Blackshama is correct – “There is a heap of evidence that learning and cognitive development is enhanced when learning is in the first language of the speaker.”

Arguments for English are unscientific and fall into political or practical considerations

Basically English proponents say we should learn it first because it is the universal language. Or at least it’s struggling to be.

But if practicality is the only consideration then we should start learning Mandarin.

But that will create political problems because then we have to translate british and american history and literature into chinese….

…and those precious “nuances” that made their cultures and race seem so superior might get lost in the translation.

But a word of caution to shaman of malilipot.- “Try studying math or science in Japanese while taking up basic Nippongo lessons. Absurd? Just as I thought.”

Let’s not underestimate Filipino intelligence and capacity to learn.

Former Foreign Secretary Domingo Siazon didn’t speak a word of Nippongo but he went to Japan after high school to study nuclear physics… in Nippongo. He graduated with flying colors.

I don’t see Siazon as an exception. Given the same opportunity and challenge I think most Filipinos can do what he did.

English is a foreign language to Filipinos. and to americans like Snoop Dog and Bush.

janie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 4:24 pm 



why can’t i post?

manuelbuencamino on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 4:25 pm 



John,

“It’s all the communists fault.”

And the islamofascists.

And paleoliberals.

janie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 4:25 pm 



I agree with Shaman.

But another problem arises, the books are in English.

This story has nothing to do with the medium of construction issue but could be relevant:

In 2nd year college, we made a documentary entitled “Klasrum”, its basically about the conditions and needs of public schools in the city. One major issue that arose is the implementation of MAKABAYAN (i assume we all know this), but the teacher we interviewed cannot fully implement teaching this because the books weren’t made to comply such curriculum. So we asked if there were new books and she said there was none. In the process maybe? And she says, if it was indeed in the process it is taking too long. So we asked if she could teach effectively, she says, she’s trying her best.

Bottom line, the government can try as much to improve, but they should be ready for the other necessities that may arise in the process.

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 4:51 pm 



Not only the books are in English, but 99.9% of all new science is being done in English. (Or choose any other large percentage). Therefore, we are asking to lame ourselves by demanding a translation-based education in math and science. IN the first place you need linguists good enough to be scientists and mathematicians to both understand the subjects and still be able to render it into Filipino. That is crazy given the speed and volume at which science and math developments are occurring.

The harder and more seriously you look at this petition, the sillier and more absurd it gets. Unless they can get the Supreme Court to start with itself, as the protector and interpreter of the constitution, it hardly stands to reason, or even humor, to demand that the education system do the same.

Bro. Andrew wanted a curriculum with just Math, Science and Language (any language! let the locals choose!) which to shaman’s point is the right answer. Besides people go to school to learn something they don’t already know. And MB, yes it is the fault of the communists and paleoliberals, who are doing this for a twisted reason that has nothing to do with education, unless it is ideological education.

The psychology of it has been noted in other places. They are ashamed of their personal success in a land of poverty, hunger and deprivation. So they wring their hands in shame and make pious noises, because in all the rest of their writing they are talking about how bad it is for every body else.

Just like the Spanish Taliban, they don’t think the natives CAN learn English just as easily as Filipino, who unnatural provenance and artificial construction cannot hide the amalgam of dialects that it actually consists of. Pilipino is simply the wrong tool for the job. Would you use a screwdriver to open a can of beans? You could, but why? Sure trig and physics can be described in Tagalog which you would have to invent, popularize and teach any way. Again why?

What really matters is what really works. Just look around the world. Even the chinese communists, (your idols), admit it!

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 5:03 pm 



Certain realities are ineluctable and unavoidable. It’s nobody’s fault. But virtually the entire superstructure of our culture, business, Law, medicine, science, industry, entertainment, are conducted with English as the medium of communication, documentation, information, transmission and reception. There is no way to change that within anybody’s lifetime. We shall have to content ourselves I am afraid with Filipino the way the entire Western world treats its Greek and Roman heritage–for the plays and poetries, the honorifics, monuments, medallions, decorations, etc. There is no shame in this! But accept it, even this argument could not fruitfully be conducted in Filipino. We’d be reduced to curses and dirty words, or other infantilism, which is what the meat of the Petition actually is.

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 5:16 pm 



What after all, would be left of Conrado de Quiros, Randy David, Pat Licuanan, indeed, Manolo Quezon, if you took away all their work in English? Why can’t they be proud of that and urge others to follow?

As a society, we just don’t have the people and talent left to reverse History or Time and bring about some great Tagalog Renaissance in math and science, or anything else. I love Florante at Laura, but not passionately–it’s just not that good. What else is there in classical Philippine literature? Ibong Adarna? Some awits and corridos in Kapampangan? Unreadable and largely unread translations of Rizal? Again there is no shame in this.

Being a great human being really has lil to do with being a Filipino or an American or a Chinese. It simply more subtle than that!

jumper on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 5:49 pm 



“Former Foreign Secretary Domingo Siazon didn’t speak a word of Nippongo but he went to Japan after high school to study nuclear physics… in Nippongo. He graduated with flying colors.”

i’m not doubting the Filipino’s capacity to learn, but i believe the fact that he was IN Japan contributed greatly to him learning the language.

which brings me to my point: i believe it’s pointless to argue whether english or filipino or whatever should be used in schools. it doesn’t matter. i studied in a chinese school and had 12 years of chinese education, where the medium of instruction and the books were all in chinese, and i still can’t speak nor read nor write chinese (as are most of my classmates). bottom line is, you’ll never effectively learn a language without consistent exposure and use/practice.

mlq3 on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 5:54 pm 



DJB, I think you’re missing the point entirely. The first problem is that the constitution sets forth a language policy. Officials are required to uphold that policy. Second, if an executive issuance proclaims a certain policy, but the fine print turns out to represent an entirely different, and possibly illegal, policy, it has to be questioned at the very least.

The third problem is at what point English will be promoted, what resources will be devoted to that promotion, and what those decisions in turn entail for Filipino and other Philippine languages. The educators seem to have reached the consensus that education should go something like this: the basics in the local language; then on to Filipino and also, on to English.

What is not being debated is the importance of English, or how advantageous/sensible it is to teach it. what is being questioned is the appropriateness of English for basic instruction.

When you and I write 1+1=2 we’re using the language of math. Which is why math (for those who understand it! and that doesn’t include me) and things like physics can be similar to the Japanese and Koreans of the old, prewar generation who could communicate by means of Chinese script even if they couldn’t speak each other’s language. I’m sure you could get two physicists, a Russian and an American, neither of whom understood each other’s language, to argue about e =mc2 by means purely of scientific notation or whatever it’s called.

I remember when I was a kid, my dad got quite worried over my being taught “new math,” and he was fretting he might get stumped by one of my homework assignments. So I remember his taking my math book, and going to his sister, and her spending a couple of hours with him explaining the “new math” in Spanish. And then afterwards, after he’d internalized it, he was able to try explaining it to me (which didn’t help, as I’m dense in math).

My father spoke Spanish and Portuguese like a native, was competent in Tagalog, and was fluent in French, Latin, and German, while I’m only competent in English though I’m trying to do my best in Filipino. Now I bring this up because I remember his telling me that one has need for two languages at the very least: the language of the heart, as he put it, and the language of the mind, by which he meant the need to be understood, and understand, one’s fellow citizens and the need to understand and be understood outside the borders of one’s country. Lacking one, he said, was a handicap. And I think most people know this, instinctively. Mastery of a foreign language, and that includes English, which has always been a foreign language for many Filipinos, is a plus. A very big plus.

Personally, my concern is that basic instruction in English, by teachers who aren’t English speakers, will teach neither English, nor the thinking required to be productive citizens. I encounter Filipinos all the time who refuse to speak English, even though their comprehension of it (as judged by their ability to follow conversations and media in English, and respond to questions) is superb -but they will not speak it, because they lack an upper-class accent. I have had many encounters with students where they tune out when I use English, and when I use Filipino, they tune in: and personally, while sometimes difficult, because it’s not my instinctive language, I haven’t been stumped in trying to explain a concept or idea in Filipino.

If you understand it, you can explain it, regardless of the language, and even, mind you, if your choice of language to explain it in, isn’t your strong suit, language-wise. But you have to understand it first in whatever language. If it’s garbage in, then it’s garbage out. And the execrable English of many teachers points to their inability to understand what on earth they’re teaching.

So by all means teach everyone English, but to get anywhere you’d have to bring the 70 year old and above generation of teachers out of retirement, or you’re going to have to invite teachers from abroad to come here and supplement our dwindling band of qualified English teachers.

jumper on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 5:58 pm 



BTW, just my 2 cents on the english or mandarin or spanish debate:

learning any of them will give you the ability to communicate with a large portion of the people in the world. the question is just which part of the world (in general): in europe and south america, spanish. in asia, mandarin. in north america and australia, english.

but my reason why Filipinos should learn english instead of spanish or mandarin is really quite simple: it’s the language most, if not all, Filipinos already have exposure to. if you already have a headstart in english, it would make sense to just go with that (not that mandarin and spanish doesn’t make sense).

jumper on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 6:06 pm 



“If it’s garbage in, then it’s garbage out. And the execrable English of many teachers points to their inability to understand what on earth they’re teaching.”

mlq, i agree but only to a certain extent. garbage-in-garbage-out is what i think the reason is for singlish – their english is so bad (contrary to what they believe) because their english teachers are bad.

but here’s the caveat: though terrible, at least they’re speaking it.

mlq3 on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 6:20 pm 



jumper:

and an important caveat that is: could be that there is less of a class element among all singlish speakers, while here at home, to borrow that line from “my fair lady”, “this verbal class distinction by now should be antique.”

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 6:23 pm 



MLQ3,
Patricia Licuanan points out in her paper that there are AT LEAST 150 dialects in the Philippines. But let’s just reduce that number drastically to say 15 major language groups. If we insist, as the Petitioners do upon the principle of “equal protection under the law” this means at minimum that Deped should produce in equal quality and appropriate volume 15 translations of arithmetic and science textbooks for the first three years of basic education program. This is most impractical and indeed impossible given the need to now make sure that teachers are also available who will be familiar with such material. The Petition also demands that the “local lingua francae” be used in addition to Filipino. This is a double oxymoron wrapped up in a contradiction because I always thought of lingua franca as being (a) universal not local and (b) singular not plural. The contradiction lies in the fact that Filipino is not in fact a lingua franca at all, is it? Ask any Cebuano or Ilokano!

But the point you say I miss actually speaks to this business of equal protection as well. How can the Supreme Court impose what the Petitioners demand they impose upon the President and Deped, when the Court itself necessarily exempts itself from such imposition? It would bring scorn and absurdity upon the Law and the High Court for it to do so. This petition will surely be found to lack any shred of merit for being moot and academic. The Court will agree with the good intentions of the Petitioners but there is no practical, legal or logically consistent way it can grant the Prayer.

I hope it produces a full-fledged decision and not just some Minute Resolution, or worse, to ignore this Pleading.

To your other point, if we don’t have teachers who can teach science and math in English, what are their chances of explaining it say in Hiligaynon or lumad-speak. It is erroneous to think that science and math are just a matter of COMMON SENSE and that they can be explained without the specialized language created especially for that purpose. Science and math are hard enough in their “native” languages, meaning to say the language used by *most* of their practitioners and exponents.

Now if we say, we should first train the teachers in science and math, we have merely squeezed the problem to some other place. How do we now teach math and science in 15 language groups. WHO would do such teaching?

Look, even the Petitioners could not transition their own work to Filipino, and they are mostly pundits or professors of social science, for practical and logical reasons.

What equal protection are they talking about when they would not impose their prayer upon themselves or their institutions.

The basis for the claim by the way that children learn better in their mother tongue when they are young would seem to be reasonable. But it turns out, according to Patricia Licuanan, that the studies were done in the 1950s by Unesco–a time long before globalization.

I can’t find any of the original sources..only the repeated quotation of quotation upon reference to references. I suspect that this lil chestnut is in fact no longer true, not in a world MTV, Cable, and a globalized world.

I suspect that it is the same politically correct ideology that was called “liberalism” during the Cold War that produced the idea, for how could the UN and UNESCO, ruled and divided equally between East and West, come up with any other principle than “every language is as good as another.”?

It is simply inconceivable to me that any worthwhile mathematician or scientist in the 21st century could or should avoid English. You simply cannot do world class science anymore without some facility in it. I’m not saying it’s the best for some intrinsic reason. It is simply the best choice of tool available because of the need for scientists and mathematicians to SHARE the burden of research and development, which requires communication of some kind.

The Ca t on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 6:32 pm 



Nabanggit ang Japan sa nangungunang bansa na gumagamit ng sariling wika sa pagkuha ng pagsusulit sa kadalubhasaan sa Matematika at Agham.

Subali’t ang hindi naisulat ng mga intelektwal na nagtataguyod ng paggamit ng sariling wika sa mga araling matematika at agham na ang Japan, bago nakapagsalin ng mga aklat na nasusulat sa mga banyagang salita noong Meiji era sa Japan ay libong mga banyagang iskolar ang kanilang inanyayahang magturo at tumulong sa pagpaunlad ng edukasyon. Marami ring Hapon ang pinadala sa ibang bansa upang mag-aral sa lahat ng sangay ng pagpadalubhasa. Sa panahong ito, isinulat ang mga aklat na natutuhan sa banyaga sa wikang Hapon.

Hindi lang dekada ang binilang upang maisakatuparan lahat ang adhikain na makuha ang mga kaalaman ng mga mauunlad na bansa kung hindi daang taon.

Samantalang tayo bilang bansa ay ni walang maibigay na mga aklat na nakasulat sa Pilipino o sa wika ng mga iba’t ibang bahagi ng Pilipinas tungkol sa agham o matematika o ano pa mang dapat matutuhan ay nagpipilit na yakapin ang
paniniwalang sa ganito lamang paraan mapapaunlad ang edukasyon.

Para bagang pinatatawid tayo ng dagat na saka lamang tayo unti-unting magbubuo ng bangka habang tayo ay naglalayag na sa karagatan.

Mayroon akong isang website kung saan dinadayo ng mga libu-libong mag-aaral dahil sa mga bugtong, mga salawikain at mga katutubong awit (folk songs) ng iba’t ibang lalawigan at madalas ang kanilang mungkahi ay isalin ko sa salitang English.

Sa pagsasalin ng mga wikang ito, ako ay naghanap ng mga diksiyunaryo sa internet at kung mayroon man ay hindi sapat upang magamit sa kabuuan.

Kung diksiyunaryo lamang sa English at Tagalog ay wala ka pang makita at kung mayroon man ay hindi sapat, mga kinakailangang aklat pa kaya upang ipatupad ang ninanais ng mga grupong nais gamitin ang sariling wika para sa pagtuturo ng agham, matematika at iba pang kurso?

Nabanggit ang Thailand at ang industriya nitong turismo na dinadayo ng mga iba’t ibang lahi. Susme, hindi naman ang taong nagsasalita ng English ang dinadalaw sa Thailand kung hindi ang mga tanawin, ang murang pagpapapalit ng
kasarian (gender)at ang pagpapabago ng anyo. Si Vicky Belo ay sampu-sampera lang sa Thailang kung saan ang rhinoplasty, breast enhancement ay para lang mga kape a Starbucks na maaring orderin na walang maraming kuskos balungos.

Malaking negosyo ang aklat lalo na kung ang paggamit nito ay nagagarantiyahan ng pagbili ng gobyerno.

Ang mag-isip ng masama ay masama ang isip. Salawikaing hindi pa natutuklasan.

mlq3 on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 6:41 pm 



djb, filipino is a lingua franca, unless you don’t watch local television. of course, it depends on what generation you talk to. i remember a decade ago, in vigan, i was being toured by a tourism official and somehow, we got lost and she asked directions from some kids hanging out in front of a sari-sari store. they replied in filipino -which upset her, being a G.I. of the old school.

I’ve gone to Davao, Bacolod, Cebu, etc. and the students preferred I talk in Filipino rather than in English. Which isn’t to say they love it -immediately, among themselves, they’d speak to each other in their own language.

And again, the point is: no one is avoiding English. The question is, is English the best means to achieve basic education, and should the language of primary instruction for all courses be English or Filipino? By what means is English best taught?

If you have a centralized educational system, coming out with basic textbooks (the various proposals involve various approaches to language use -do you use, for example, Ilocano until grades 1, 3, or 6? And Filipino until when? And where, and how, does English then come in?) would be difficult. If you adopted a regional approach, as A Nagueno in the Blogosphere proposes, I don’t see why you’d find it impossible to efficiently, and accurately, produce a Bicolano basic math textbook, etc. You may be only able to produce only one, but that’s all you need, isn’t it, for the area? Our educational system seemed to do fine with the Osias readers, a basic set used nationwide with none of flood of textbooks we see today.

There is no contradiction between the petition’s contents and the language it’s written in. English is an official language. The only other official language is Filipino. You can submit pleadings to the court in either language; but the Constitution says, unless there’s a law to the contrary, basic instruction should be in Filipino with the local languages as auxiliary languages. The legal system is a reflection of the educational system that produced it: and those who man it. Which is why, long after it ceased dominating official communications, Spanish remained the dominant language of the courts, until the war. Everyone else had shifted, predominantly, to English.

And again, to your points, there are the Timms thingies -the claim is, we are the only test-takers in our region, who take it in English, while everyone else takes it (and presumably, studies it) in their local languages. I still think you are conflating high math and science with basic math and science teaching. When I was a kid in Don Bosco, when we, the students, would be grappling with our subjects, we’d whisper and explain things to each other in Filipino -with some of my classmates having to slow down and explain things further to me, since my home language was English, and it wasn’t theirs.

The Ca t on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 6:55 pm 



Juan Miguel Luz mentioned something about the effectiveness of Sineskwela in teaching Science to the grade schoolers.

But honey, did he not consider that the effectiveness was due to visual aids?

And where did Licuanan got the survey that 99 per cent of Filipino households use Tagalog as second language?

To use it as a second language, one should be able to understand and talk in Tagalog. People may understand Tagalog because of body language or gestures pero siguro dae sinda makataram miski sarong taramon o e la bihasa sasau Tagalog.

Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 6:59 pm 



But, MB, the fact is that Filipino schoolchildren are not excelling in math and the sciences with the subjects being taught in English.

If Siazon is not an exception, shall we then teach our kids math and science in Nippongo, since, as you said, “Given the same opportunity and challenge I think most Filipinos can do what he did.”?

The idea is to drill in early in school the basic concepts of math and the sciences in the language that our kids can fully comprehend – the language that will enable them to gain a solid foundation on the subjects. Student-teacher interaction in the classroom will be better if discussions are carried on in their native tongue rather than in a language that they are still trying to learn.

Perhaps, at a certain point, say in high school or in college, the higher levels of math and the sciences can already be taught in English, since, by that time, the students would have acquired greater proficiency in English. But by then they will just be building on the strong foundation laid in their elementary years.

So, take comfort, little brown american DJB, there will still be books in English.

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:00 pm 



MLQ3,
The language of the Constitution is very clear in Art XIV Section 6: Subject to provisions of law and as the Congress may deem appropriate, the Government shall take steps to initiate and sustain the use of Filipino as a medium of official communication and as language of instruction in the educational system.”

It says “the Government” not just the Deped, should use Filipino for “official communication” AND as language of instruction. But petitioners sneakily ignore the bits about the govt and official communications. Equal protection means that if we impose this on Deped, at least the imposing body, the Supreme Court should also comply.

To your point about Filipino as the lingua franca, let me grant it to you even if the petitioners talk about “the local lingua francae and Filipino” should be used in basic education. I will even grant we can teach all other subjects in this lingua franca like the 60% that is in Makabayan. But when it comes to math and science there is a “bootstrapping problem” that exists EVEN if English is the medium of instruction chosen because as I said the concepts that have to be taught are not ‘COMMON SENSE’ things, at least until you see that the math and science make “more sense” than what you thought before you learned them.

My only point here is that the bootstrapping problem is best solved, for practical reasons, when English is the medium of instruction. Most if not all our competent teachers in math and science have learned it and know how to teach it in English, compared to any other local language, because the books and materials are much more widely available and familiar to them in that form. And it is precisely in the beginning years when such material is hardest to impress upon the children. There is absolutely no advantage in other words in using Filipino for these subjects because it is simply NOT true that the children understand the stuff better in their “mother tongue” if in fact there is no one there to explain it to them in that tongue. Thus the bootstrapping problem.

When the vocabulary for teaching math and science in Filipino even at the most basic levels does not even exists and still remains to be invented in Diliman, how can we possibly hope to teach these subjects in that nonexistent language? Take the simplest idea of a fraction for example. What in the world is the translation of the words “addition, subtraction, multiplication, division”?

Does any body here even know?

Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:05 pm 



janie, once an official policy has been put in place to teach basic math and science in Pilipino, books will be translated and published in Pilipino. The shift cannot be done overnight. But it has to be made at the soonest possible time. How long does it take to translate books, anyway. As I’ve said, we don’t have to invent words for technical terms. Ang phylum ng gagamba ay Arthropoda. Any problem with that?

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:06 pm 



Shaman: NON SEQUITUR!

Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:15 pm 



DJB,

We can still use the words “addition”, “subtraction”, “multiplication” and “division”. But in teaching subtraction, why can’t we say, “Ang aralin natin ngayon ay subtraction. Si Jose ay may anim na santol. Kinain niya ang dalawa. Ilan ang natira?”

Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:17 pm 



Non-sequitur? How?

The Ca t on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:18 pm 



Addition-pagdaragdag
Subtraction-pagbabawas
Multiplication-pagpaparami
Division-Paghahati-hati

I bet I am the only one who knows because I am working on an English-Tagalog dictionary in my website.

Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:24 pm 



Cat, pagbabawas has some bathroom connotation.

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:29 pm 



Very good C at. But try this: translate “Three and three fourths divided by six point two equals?” into Hiligaynon, Ilokano, Cebuano, and Kapampangan (as the Petitioners plead). Put in normal form (mixed fractions).

Shaman of Malilipot on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:30 pm 



Cat, siguro an gustong sabihon ni Licuanan, an Tagalog second language kan mga Bikolanos, Ilokanos, Cebuanos, etc. Kaya 99% kan mga tawo sa Pilipinas.

manuelbuencamino on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 7:58 pm 



shaman,

I didn’t disagree with you . All I was saying is don’t sell the Filipino short. Indeed, we can learn faster and better if we start with our own language but doesn’t mean we can’t if we don’t.

I’m for native language in math and science in the early grades specially because it worksw.

It works so well that the Malaysian gov’t which has a bumiputra policy, Malay race first, tried to prohibit chinese and tamil schools from teaching science and math in their native langua. Thy wanted to standardize early education among the three races in malaysia so that the malays would not be left behind.

I guess the idea of teaching us in english is so that we don’t become as smart as the indians, sings, japs, koreans, chinese, persians and leave the americans in the dust – something those among us who have staked their all in the american religion would never allow.

mlq3 on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 8:20 pm 



djb, vicassan’s English-Pilipino dictionary says:

addition: 1. pagsusuma; pagtutotal; 2. padaragdag; paglalahok; 3. dagdag, karagdagan. We see this all the time, e.g. suma total.
subtraction: 1. pagbabawas; 2. subtraksiyon (the example given in the definition: “ang paraan ng pagbabawas ng isang numero sa isang higit na mataas ng numero”).
multiplication: 1. pagpaparami (ng bilang, multiplikasyon; 2. pagdami, pagkadami, etc.
division: 1. paghahati, paghahati-hati; pagbabahagi… pagpaparte; 2. pagkakahati… pagkakaparte… 3. (in Arith.) dibisyon; paghahati, pagdidibisyon; 3. sangay, dibisyon (ex. saangay ng ng mga ari-arian); 5.partisyon, dibisyon (e.g. ng kuwarto); 7. hidwaan, salungatan, di-pagkasundo…

a good example is french, which doesn’t use computer, but instead, ordinateur. Just because you or I don’t know it, doesn’t mean the word equivalent doesn’t exist, or that it isn’t used.

The Ca t on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 8:41 pm 



Cat, pagbabawas has some bathroom connotation.

Precisely, I was tempted to use this in a sentence referring to people with diarrhea.

The Ca t on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 8:46 pm 



Very good C at. But try this: translate “Three and three fourths divided by six point two equals?” into Hiligaynon, Ilokano, Cebuano, and Kapampangan (as the Petitioners plead). Put in normal form (mixed fractions).

Exactly my point DJB. These people are for the implementation of the local dialect as medium of instruction when they have hardly even produced instructional materials to this effect.

The Ca t on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 8:54 pm 



I like to see this scenario where a Tagalog and a Bicolano are asked to solve a mathematical problem.

In Tagalog:

Mayroong tatlong daga siyang nakita sa kaniyang pagdating. Isa pang daga ang kaniyang nakita nang siya ay paalis na.Tanong: ilang daga ang kaniyang nakita?

Sagot ng Tagalog: Apat na daga.

Sagot ng Bicolano: Anong daga ang pigsasabi nin mga tawong ini? Sarong daga lang ang nahihiling ko; ang sacong pigtutuntungan.

If you do not understand what I wrote, it’s time for you to learn Bicol dialect.

vic on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 9:10 pm 



Here’s another contribution from a multilingual, multiculture planet on earth. Our second largest nationality, the Asians, Chinese the majority, speak their own mother languages from birth and thru out their lives and so are the Italians, the Israelites and about 100s different species, but there are only two official languages use as Medium of instructions in our School, French and English and seem to be working ok. And consider the new arrivals, whose Children some know not a single word in either languages, but don’t take more than a few year to be proficient in either one or both and learn their l23 and abc just as well.
My point here we can have use any language as Medium, but if the quality of Education is below Par, not much help.

janie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 9:18 pm 



Shaman of Malilipot :

janie, once an official policy has been put in place to teach basic math and science in Pilipino, books will be translated and published in Pilipino. The shift cannot be done overnight. But it has to be made at the soonest possible time. How long does it take to translate books, anyway. As I’ve said, we don’t have to invent words for technical terms. Ang phylum ng gagamba ay Arthropoda. Any problem with that?
__________________________________________________________

how long will it take? it might be finished by the time people try to change the medium of instruction again.

janie on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 9:21 pm 



quoting Vic:

“My point here we can have use any language as Medium, but if the quality of Education is below Par, not much help.”

-exactly

UPn student on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 9:39 pm 



A hidden theme to the debate seems to be nationalism. Paano tayo magiging isang bansa kung malaking importansiya ang ibinibigay natin sa Ingles?

UPn student on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 9:40 pm 



Another theme is “regression to the mean”.

Blackshama on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 10:41 pm 



Let me see? ….. The reason why Pinoys have to take IELTS or TOEFL in order to study or work in an English speaking country is that we learn to first think in our first language not English. This is one reason why we Asians see the world differently from that of Europeans.

As a practicing scientist let me inform readers about science communication and thinking. First of all one big reason why people find science or math difficult is that they were not trained to think scientifically. Scientific thinking can be learned in any language. No language really puts a disadvantage on learning science unless you learn it in a language which you can’t think with. Science education metrics bear these out. In the US the major reason why the science community fears it will lose its edge is because fewer undergrads are majoring in science, thereby leaving them without recourse but to take in Asian post-docs (who still have to take TOEFL). Republicans are not the cause! If Asians leave Americans in the dust, it’s because they are enrolling in science courses.

I agree that if one would like to go into a science career one has to master English. But not all citizens would want to become scientists. The level of English competency should match their career needs. Service workers should at least master to a level equivalent to IELTS band of 5-6. Academics at 8.0. Those who feel English is not for them at least should have studied basic English. Now since a lot of people believe English will make them more competitive, many would try to attain a band 6-7, like many nurses do.

Also for science teaching in Filipino, scientific terms in English with Filipino counterparts may be used. Velocity = bilis, acceleration = arangkada. Latin and Greek terms should remain as is to preserve their exact meaning. While some of the Latin terms have counterparts in Spanish, our linguists should be able to offer advice if we would adopt the Spanish terms. During a period of transition it may be permissible to use the English words per se. In Pakistan I was told by Pakistani Post-docs, they used this.

I don’t see any “murder” of my national language if I open my college lectures on evolution (which I have done) with

“Ang teorya ng ebolusyon sa pamamagitan ng natural selection ay unang pinasimula nina Charles Darwin at Alfred Russel Wallace. Ang dalawang naturalista ay naglakbay sa malaking bahagi ng daigdig upang mangolekta ng mga specimens sa pag-aaral ng natural history. Sa kanilang pananaliksik nakita nina Darwin at Wallace na may pagkakaiba o variation ang bawat species sa kalikasan. Ano ba ang pinagmulan ng pagkakaibang ito? Ang pamamaraan na kanilang ginawang hypotesis ay ang natural selection.

Ang dapat pagtakhan ay si Darwin at Wallace ay sariling at independienteng dumating sa konklusyon na ito nga marahil ang pamamaraan kung paano nagyari ang ebolusyon. Nang sumulat lamang si Wallace noong 1858 kay Darwin ng nalaman ni Darwin na pareho ang kanilang konklusyon. At dahil si Wallace ay nananliksik sa Indonesia at si Darwin naman sa Galapagos, ito ay malaking suporta sa kanilang teorya.”

DJB on Thu, 26th Apr 2007 10:59 pm 



UPn Student,
Okay, what other things aside from English should we ditch because they aren’t indigenous and so that we will become one nation as you claim? Christianity? Democracy? Physics? Internal Combustion? Starbucks? (You can give the answer in Tagalog if you are ashamed of the fact that you are better at English than any other language.)

cvj on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 12:22 am 



Blackshama, physics would certainly sound more relevant if Newton’s Second Law of motion was explained as lakas = arangkada x bigat.

UPn student on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 12:38 am 



DJB… A hidden theme to the debate seems to be nationalism. Paano tayo magiging isang bansa kung malaking importansiya ang ibinibigay natin sa Ingles?

Another theme is “regression to the mean”.

In my opinion, the logic behind the first(nationalism-theme) is questionable. The country seems to agree, at least back in 1987, evidenced by English (not French or Mandarin) having special mention in the 1987 Constitution.
So if the Philippines regresses to the mean because the country can not afford the expense of a quality-component of being a world-citizen, then call a spade a spade. My sentiment, however, is that the benefit to the country as a whole, and to citizens individually, exceeds the peso-expense of having a population that has a working-facilty of English. The question, to me, is less “should we or should we not (teach English)” and more “how best to accomplish the objective”.

UPn student on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 12:46 am 



Now, if someone were to say that by eliminating English, the country can fire 200 principals and 800 teachers and the budget-money will then be used to hire 140 doctors and 800 nurses, then I’ll say “Go Do!”

Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 1:04 am 



I know, MB, and nobody is selling the Filipino short. My point is if, as you’ve said, “we can learn faster and better if we start with our own language”, why not do it? Sure, we still can learn if we don’t, but why do it the hard way?

cvj on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 1:10 am 



Upn Student, on your question “how best to accomplish the objective [of teaching English]“, i believe the answer is to teach it as a foreign language side by side with Mandarin which will increase in importance in the future.

Sometime this century, Mandarin will become more important than English. If we put in place a modular foreign language instruction program, future generations of Filipino ‘world-citizens’ will thank us.

Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 1:13 am 



janie, once the demand for textbooks in Pilipino is there, believe me, the publishers will make sure they are out in the market at the soonest possible time. There are serious profits to be made and these textbook publishers are smart businessmen. I just happen to know.

cvj on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 1:30 am 



I see (belatedly) that manuelbuencamino has previously already made the comment about the need to teach Mandarin.

Jumper (at 6:06 pm), a local here in Singapore told us that Singlish was the result of their government’s mandate for them to switch to English without putting in place a program to teach English properly. People who have been speaking Mandarin, Cantonese or Hokkien all their lives just switched to using English words one-for-one. Their kids picked up on these speech habits and over time Singlish became the norm.

That’s the reason why in my preceding comment, i suggested that the best way to teach English is to approach it like any other foreign language.

Shaman of Malilipot on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 1:34 am 



“Exactly my point DJB. These people are for the implementation of the local dialect as medium of instruction when they have hardly even produced instructional materials to this effect.” – The Cat

Why would anybody produce those instructional materials when there is no demand for them yet? That would be pretty much like putting the cart before the horse.

As I have said, these textbook publishers are smart businessmen.

UPn student on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 2:32 am 



A reason to eliminate English from the curriculum, and the reason is to reduce the OFW phenomenon. I know of an ystakei on the ellentordessilas site who recounts that she was so distressed by her lack of sufficient fluency in English during her months in USA/West Coast (she was being put-down/she felt less-capable/people kep asking her to repeat what she said/she felt discrimination because of her lack of fluency in English. She also said that she could not develop the English fluency fast enough) that she left the US.

cvj and ManuelB… “yes” to Mandarin. cvj… “yes” to teaching English as a foreign language, but we should all accept that if you offer 50 students three choices — Mandarin, English, “huwag na lang” — more than 15 will choose door-number-three.

The Ca t on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 3:04 am 



Why would anybody produce those instructional materials when there is no demand for them yet? That would be pretty much like putting the cart before the horse.

When you teach, you prepare some sort of lesson plan in the elementary and high school level; a course syllabus for the college level and a course module for the graduate level. In preparation for these guides for learning and teaching, you come up with bibliographies and references.

The teacher/professor/instructors prepare these materials before the subjects are taught. This can not be likened to putting the cart before the horse. It is more of building the bridge before crossing.

In fact the lesson plan prepared by the teacher is already an outline form of the instructional materials.

The books are not mass produced by the publishers until the requisition from the government agency is received and guaranteed for payment.

Even in business formation, the business plan or feasibility study comes first.

janie on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 11:38 am 



FROM THE CA T :

When you teach, you prepare some sort of lesson plan in the elementary and high school level; a course syllabus for the college level and a course module for the graduate level. In preparation for these guides for learning and teaching, you come up with bibliographies and references.

The teacher/professor/instructors prepare these materials before the subjects are taught. This can not be likened to putting the cart before the horse. It is more of building the bridge before crossing.

In fact the lesson plan prepared by the teacher is already an outline form of the instructional materials.

The books are not mass produced by the publishers until the requisition from the government agency is received and guaranteed for payment.

Even in business formation, the business plan or feasibility study comes first.

__________________________________________________________

and preparing such materials isn’t easy, particularly for this issue.

it will take a long time. believe me too. i happen to know.


jason on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 11:55 am 



test

hvrds on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 12:26 pm 



http://www.multilingual-matters.net/cilp/003/cilp0030005.htm

http://www.sil.org/asia/ldc/plenary_papers/andrew_gonzales.pdf

Lifted from the column of Isagani Cruz, Philippine Star April 12, 2007 on the papers written by the late Bro. Andrew Gonzalez, former Secretary of Education. Why teaching in the local dialect or national language is critical.

“The last phase of language development is the phase of cultivation which has many aspects. Usually the national language is cultivated as a language of imaginative literature, the mass media, a medium of instruction in the basic educational system, as the language of governance, and as a language of academic discourse.”

“The last phase can be considered as a process of modernisation (through its use to thematise current realities) and as a process of intellectualisation (as a medium of oral and written academic discourse).

“The intellectualisation phase consists not only of lexical expansion (through modern terminologies for the disciplines) but likewise of stylistic differentiation (using syntactic devices for different types of prose discourse). Intellectualisation is examined as process and product and according to its inner (psychological) and outer (sociological) dimensions.”

“Some theoretical insights from the Philippine experience are discussed; the intellectualisation of Filipino is unprecedented because it is an ongoing process that can be documented in detail through the corpus being generated and should enrich the scholarly literature on this topic”

“For the (Filipino) language to be cultivated intellectually, it must be used and not just studied. If school policy makers choose not to use the national language in certain academic domains, the language will not be cultivated for higher cognitive activities in that field of specialization. It is, of course, easier to reach a stage of critical thinking in one’s native language or mother tongue and it takes special tutoring and practice to cultivate a second language for purposes of higher order thinking. In the Philippines, because of the lack of financial resources, the national language has not been sufficiently developed as a language of intellectual discourse. English competence, once attained, becomes a highly effective tool of intellectual discourse and learning of the worlds knowledge. However, the number of those in the system who reach such an advanced stage in a second language such as English is bound to be small and elitist.”

“The advice based on investigations and experience of literary experts is that the best way to teach a second language is by enabling the students to master the first language to the point of critical thinking; these skills can then be transferred to the second language. In spite of this evidence, Philippine decision makers and parents continue to insist on English as early as possible, even though that hinders children’s ability to think critically in the mother tongue or at least in the national language which is structurally similar to the mother tongue. This partially explains the problems of language and quality in Philippine education today.”

“In brief, language planning presumes rationality on the part of the language planners in drafting action plan, but these action plans likewise presume rationality on the part of the political decision-makers and would-be beneficiaries (parents and their children) of these rational policies. Unfortunately, in a world not quite fully rational, rational means to realize plans do not always obtain and results are often mixed, which they are in the Philippines”

inidoro ni emilie on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 1:04 pm 



why is there a need to translate everything in pilipino. the nature of bilingualism does not necessarily require that! one can still read the science and math problem in english, and the explanation and elaboration can be done in mother tongue for conceptual reinforcement. what is wrong with that?!?

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 2:11 pm 



It is becoming apparent that the biggest boosters of supposedly nationalistic ideas in education are those who are already fluent in English and are well-educated. Whereas, the poor, the uneducated probably wish the opposite.

Why do you think this might be?

janie on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 2:38 pm 



probably because they know how its like to be on the other side of the fence.

inidoro ni emilie on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 2:41 pm 



there goes the errors in translation.

multiplication: pagpaparami?
subtraction: pagpababawas?

in the everyday languge context, yes! but in the language of mathematics: not necessarily!

example 1.
consider: what is 1/2 of 12?
answer: 6.
equation: 1/2 x 12.
operation used: multiplication
question: dumami ba yung twelve?

example 2.
consider: 1 – -3 = 1 + 3
answer: 4
operation used: subtraction, which turned into addition
question: nabawasan nga ba ang 1?

my point: math has its own language. the natural language is often used only to help build our understanding of the concepts made intricate by the mathematical language. often it is the natural language that impedes the understanding of the language of math. but we can’t help the use of it because that’s how our learning processes are governed.

but certainly there are natural languages that make for better support in concept building.

consider example 1. often the danger among filipino math teachers is to use the word “times”, as in 1/2 times 12, when in fact, it should be read one half of 12. in plain filipino: ano ang kalahati nang 12? inthe language of math, 1/2 x 12 is the semoitic representation, not the semantic reading of the problem. that’s how complicated the language of math is to begin with. and this has to be explained in english? “of”? that that preposition come natural to us?

as to djb’s exercise: “Three and three fourths divided by six point two equals?”

am sure what you have in mind in the natural language translation. what you’re missing out is that it can be translated pure and simple in the semiotic language of math as: 3 3/4 6.2 = ?

inidoro ni emilie on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 2:43 pm 



oops,

that should read: 3 3/4 –insert division symbol here– 6.2 = ?

Jeg on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 3:04 pm 



My playmates and I used ‘filipinized’ math terms when we were kids.

Multiply = taymis (5 taymis 5)
Divide = dibay-dibay (10 dibay-dibay 2)



mlq3 on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 5:23 pm 



djb: i’m not convinced of the probability you state. from anecdotal evidence only, of course. a survey on language preferences would be nice, we all might be surprised at the results.

The Ca t on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 6:45 pm 



and preparing such materials isn’t easy, particularly for this issue.

it will take a long time. believe me too. i happen to know.

I have gone over the petition again and have come across the statement regarding the implementation of the provision of the law using vernacular and Filipino as medium of instruction which enjoined the DepEd to develop instructional materials from the year 1991 to 1998 so that by year 2000 all subjects are taught in Filipino.

I have no way to check if this is already implemented 100 per cent? Or another ningas-cogon?

If this is so, is there any recent follow-up study that there was a significant improvement in the comprehension levels of the pupils taught? I read that there was one in 1998 but that was almost 1o years ago.

On the “ahem” side.

I noticed that two of the petitioners are pupils aged 3 and seven from Claret.

My brother is a graduate of Claret. He was one of the topnotchers when he took the exam in the PSHS and became an NST scholar in UP. He believed that it was the quality of education that he received from Claret which made him better prepared for his secondary and college education.

And that was when medium of instruction was in English.

So do these children with ages 3 and seven realize already the impact of language in their education?

Btw, when we were growing up, the languages used were Tagalog and English for the young ones and the Bicol dialect for the adults.

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 7:28 pm 



MLQ3,

The poor, the uneducated “probably” wish they were fluent in English, because it would seem to me they already feel fluent in their native tongue and don’t need further education in it. Thus even Americans and Englishmen are often puzzled at why they have to study English. Until they realize that facility, fluency and expertise in English opens the doors to professional careers, businesses, promotions, wealth.

I think the poor and uneducated are “probably” aware of the fact that their betters, like Conrado de Quiros, Randy David, Patricia Licuanan, and indeed all the substantial people of society in govt, business, academe, etc. are all English speaking in their default condition and that when they deign to speak in the vernacular it is merely to impress the poor and uneducated with their noble and generous humility.

I am guilty of that as much as anybody else.

But I am also convinced that any initially poor person won’t be that for long if he can at least read and write good English.

And so I shall do everything to help our countrymen get a leg up on the world by promoting the use of the tools that will accomplish their upliftment: Mathematics, Science and the Lingua Anglica of the 21st Century.

That is not to say that Mandarin and Japanese and French are not also worthwhile studying. Or indeed Filipino. They are!

But we are inextricably a part of the Anglosphere of this Earth. There is no shame in that. Conversely, it is a cruel and misguided notion that the feel-good nationalism these Petitioners urge will do anything but win them National Artists Awards and congratulations from their peers. In its effects, their Petition to the Court, if granted, would be indistinguishable from the language apartheid policies of the Spanish Taliban which effectively cut the Islands off from the rest of humanity for 300 years, and is therefore despicable and hateful to me.

If I am glad and proud to be part of that Anglosphere, it is because the gift of English is what awakened the Sleepers of the Centuries in this archipelago, to the history of the world, to the wonders of science, to the knowledge and notion that they too could one day be as great as their Masters. Or even greater!

Now What, Cat? » Blog Archive » Tagalog, Bicol, Ilocano o English ? Away na on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 7:34 pm 

[...] mouse, Umaatikabong away na sa isyu ng pagpapatupad ng pinakahuling administrative order kung saan inuutos ng pangulo na paghusayin ang pagtuturo ng English as second language sa elementary [...]

cvj on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 8:08 pm 



…as great as their Masters. Or even greater! – DJB

Who is ‘they’ and who is their ‘Masters’?

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 8:41 pm 



C at–”They” the indios were subjects of the Spanish King and Communicants of his Cross for centuries, but never was the hope of becoming the equal of Spaniards planted in their hearts by being taught the Spanish language of their “Masters.”

Then they were subjugated by America, who became the Colonial Masters of the Filipinos. But our grandfathers had almost immediate benefit of reading those stirring words proclaiming certain truths to be self-evident, such as that all men are created equal, and have inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Then the Filipinos came to self-rule and now supposedly the best among them want to shut the gates through which they themselves came to their exulted states.

They are the Masters now, unwilling to share the keys that will unlock the chains, using arguments that even Jose Rizal exposed and debunked so long ago, both in fiction and in the example of his own life, with respect to Spanish: first as Crisostomo Ibarra wanting a Spanish language institute. And as himself, the true and practical exponent of “what really matters is what really works.”

UPn student on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:01 pm 



There also is a marketing sleight-of-hand that seems to be going on. The public school system finally acknowledging that they have done poorly at teaching science, math, Filipino, and English. The boss (the Executive Department) says for them to listen to their customers and do better.
Instead, they say “can’t do better… can only do less. Can’t do better. English is not my job” –remove English. And the customer who wants English should pay for it themselves.

UPn student on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:05 pm 



If the petitioners win, will it force the private schools who provide English emphasis to change their curriculum and “regress to the mean”?

cvj on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:13 pm 



DJB, remember that the author who created Crisostomo Ibarra was also the one who said “Ang taong hindi marunong magmahal sa sariling wika ay daig pa ang mabaho at malansang isda.”

For the longest time, I never really understood what he was trying to say until, at some point, i came across an article explaining that Rizal was actually alluding to what happens to a ‘fish out of water’.

By saying that, “what really matters is what really works“, you send the message that you favor English for instrumental reasons. That proposition (i.e. teaching in English is ‘what works’), in itself questionable, disregards the fact that language is also an expression of one’s identity.

We may use English because of economic necessity, but we still love, hate, and say and do a lot of other things in Pilipino. In the future, for similar economic reasons, many of us may have to switch to Mandarin as a second language. That’s fine, as long as we still are able to maintain our Filipino identity courtesy of our Mother tongue.

UPn student on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:17 pm 



And if the petitioners lose, will there be a strike?

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:21 pm 



UPn Student

Petitioners cannot win. Their prayer will be declared uncouth and cacademic. Their arguments of unconstitutionality are baseless, for it was not this comment thread that first noticed how it was in English itself that they had written the Constitution, and so gave us two official languages to choose from. Having left it up to Congress how to “initiate and sustain” the use of the National Language, the present Supreme Court will surely bail at that point and invoke separation of powers in this case, even though two recent Chief Justices have been guilty of gross violations of the same principle: Davide, for single handedly aborting the only valid impeachment trial we are likely to see in our lifetimes, and overthrowing a duly elected President at the head of a hooting throng of English speaking elitists, and Puno for making a patently political speech against the Executive and Legislative POLICY to go to war on terrorism, a direct violation of Rule 5.10 of the Code of Judicial Conduct.

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:24 pm 



CVJ,
I was waiting for that…but I hope you sit down first before reading this…There is no proof Rizal EVER said that. Turns out that vignette is fabrication of nationalists too!

UPn student on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:35 pm 



Dang… that Constitution does get in the way of a few things that deQuiros wants, doesn’t it?

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:40 pm 



CVJ,
I must challenge your idea that “national identity” is maintained courtesy of a “Mother Tongue.” Take England and America, Australia, New Zealand, Scotland, Ireland, and even India, are these countries not separate identities even if they have a common language?

As for “Filipino identity”, it’s quite odd that the “Mother Tongue” which you say defines the Filipino identity PRECEEDED the existence of the First Filipino (who never wrote down anything in it of any lasting significance, not even his laundry lists). It’s an Indo-Malayan language, yet Filipinos can hardly be lumped in with Indonesians and Malaysians in anything but skin color and racial type. That language you call our Mother Tongue was alien to the human beings that came to be “Filipinos” at some point in history.

National identity is just a convenient categorization in a globalized world of human beings, just as being Ilokano, Cebuano, Tagalog can hardly define what it means to be “Filipino.”

mlq3 on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:47 pm 



I’ve deliberately set aside the case of Indonesia, because it’s closer to where we were with the Spanish than where we ended up with the Americans. But reading up on the debates and changing policies in India and Malaysia may be useful:

In the case of Malaysia,

http://www.mofa.gov.my/kln/statemen.nsf/8b025386799b52e8c8256ab800122dda/5809ffd8d7717550482568e10037208e?OpenDocument

and

http://www.languageinindia.com/nov2004/abdulla1.html

In the case of India:

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~jason2/papers/natlang.htm

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/540/handouts/indiapol/

Of course it’s noteworthy that in the USA, the debate on specifying a national language by law erupts and re-erupts from time to time, and it was debated even at the time of the birth of the US, when one proposal was to adopt German.

Again, I don’t think anyone advocates discarding English. The question is, how will English be taught and learned best of all? If some experts don’t approach it from that perspective, still, that’s the perspective adopted by many people involved in the debate (such as myself). Also, how will Filipino best be propagated as a living, and intellectual, language and not merely a lingua franca? And, more recently: how to preserve local languages and the heritage that they represent.

The menu of options for governments is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 9:58 pm 



Right on Malaysia! Now if only they would abolish apostasy from Islam as a capital crime…

DJB on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 10:25 pm 



Most of the species that have ever lived on earth are extinct. Most of the languages of one of those species, homo sapiens, are dead. Even the greatest ones, like Latin.

So why should local languages be preserved as if such a thing were even possible or natural? I think, like biological species and their genes, the very special memes called languages experience evolution and extinction based on survival of the fittest and natural selection. Once the number of brains one language meme controls falls below a certain critical number, it’s a goner and trying to save it for the sake of heritage is work of utter futility.

The Roman Numeral System is cute and survives as decoration, but no one would seriously want to preserve it as the basis of computation. The Arabs invented something far better. Likewise, most dialects are doomed. So what? We have already accepted the demise of the primacy of being Ilokano or Cebuano or Tagalog right? I thought the idea of having a national language was to unite the Filipinos. Why should we seek to divide them by maintaining the linguistic walls that once made them headhunting enemies and territorial rivals?

And we have got to believe that this evolution of man won’t end at the nation-state. We have got to pray that nationalism itself will disappear and give way to a common humanity that will concentrate on the important stuff for variety:::like cuisine and the infinite varieties of the opposite (or okay, the preferred) sex.

The Ca t on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 10:30 pm 



DBJ,
It was not me who asked Who are “THEY”. It was CVJ. hmm it rhymed.

The Ca t on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 10:33 pm 



I thought the idea of having a national language was to unite the Filipinos. Why should we seek to divide them by maintaining the linguistic walls that once made them headhunting enemies and territorial rivals?

I agree and maybe the grandpa of MLQ3( ang Ama ng Pambansang Wika) would also agree wherever he is.

inidoro ni emilie on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 10:53 pm 



“If the petitioners win, will it force the private schools who provide English emphasis to change their curriculum and “regress to the mean”?”

possibly so, if private schools are not granted independence of language choice. but why isn’t anybody pushing for bilingualism? why does mathematics and science teaching have to be a dichotomy between pilipino (to the exclusion of other regional languages) and english, when a bilingual approach cannot be that less effective? and oh please, by bilingualism i do not mean the coñotic taglish gibberish. use the english textbooks–which students hardly read anyway–and explain the concepts further in the mother tongue, if or when the need for linguistic support arises.

further, i do not understand this exercise to transliterate mathematical sentences word for word from english into filipino if only to show that filipino would falter in this regard. what is not explicated is that lingusitically there are gramtical distances between our regional languages and the english language, and therefore a one-to-one transliteration will not be a valid exercise at all times hold. but it does not mean we cannot express these statements in other ways.

djb said:

“If I am glad and proud to be part of that Anglosphere, it is because the gift of English is what awakened the Sleepers of the Centuries in this archipelago, to the history of the world, to the wonders of science, to the knowledge and notion that they too could one day be as great as their Masters. Or even greater! ”

indeed, america has much to be grateful to an asian like you who have studied their maths and sciences in their shores because their own local english-speaking citizens are losing interests in these subjects (proof: u.s. timss standing is far below hongkong, malaysia, taiwan, japan; it could have gone further down, if not for the asian students regressing it up to the mean, with apologies to upn). but hey, they will always be at the helm marketing your discoveries. ikaw ang nagsaing, sila ang kakain.

inidoro ni emilie on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 10:57 pm 



should read: therefore a one-to-one semantic transliteration will not be a valid exercise that would hold at all times.

[pardon the earlier ungrammatical construction. or did i just transliterate my filipino thoughts into english?!?]

vic on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 11:33 pm 



We are a nation of multi-languages, multi cultures and it is not just encouraged by our respective governments, (federal and provincial), in fact it is supported by financial grants and programs. Parents have a choice of sending their children to learn their own “mother tongues” in their own communities and students can take “language immersion” of the other official language and that too is publicly funded. Language immersion is taking of another language in entirety. e.g. An English speaking student taking “French immersion goes to a French Language School” instead of just taking French Lessons and vice Versa. Profeciency in either or both of our official languages is the key to learning and the quality of our universally funded education is also a lot of help.

I think it will be very impractical to switch to any language as there are no common language or dialect spoken by more than 25% of the total population at any given time and it is also impractical to have a “zoning” system of medium in every region with its given dialect.

And I’m pretty sure Tagalog is not a very popular language in Mindanao. Simply means we have different Textbooks in the south, different in the north, in central regions and what about if the 20% or so Chinese descents Pilipino want theirs in Mandarin? Can our Bureaucracy handle such complexities? No and a Big no…

Blackshama on Fri, 27th Apr 2007 11:52 pm 



Kailangan ng pagkakasundo kung gaanong kahalaga ang Ingles sa lipunan. Minumungkahi ba ni Vic na sundan natin ang halimbawa ng Canada?

Do you think we should declare ourselves and write into the Constitution that we are officially bilingual?

Ang malaking gulo sa palisi ng bilingualism sa Canada ay kung hanggang saan ang pwedeng ibigay na serbisyong pangwika sa Pranses at Ingles sa mga mamamayan. Sa mga komunidad na ang nakakarami ay mga nagsasalita ng Ingles, kinaiinisan ng mga tao na kailangan nilang ibigay ang serbisyo sa wikang Pranses.

Parang walang away, Esperanto o Interlingua na lang!

UPn student on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 12:08 am 



Side-note: For a hint of the quality of Mainland China math education, see this link which contains a University entrance-exam question:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6589301.stm

UPn student on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 12:21 am 



inidoro… I have seen three instances where people did not recognize that the science in front of their noses was worth several pieces of gold. One was the science of “branch and bound”. The twist is that it was white dudes who did not know what they had. It was a core-group of yellow-skinned who took the math, formed their own company, packaged the science along with databases and Sun Unix workstations into a product-offering that they marketed to Telecom companies (for network route optimization).
If you did not see “IT”, then “IT” is not yours.

baycas on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 12:36 am 



djb, i tried looking for the text of the researches mentioned in the petition online…as you said, they were only cited as references.

—–

unless we come up with a new study (a Philippine version) such as the one done in Hong Kong this Language Wars will continue.

the following is the abstract of the study published in Bilingual Research Journal:

This paper is the first of a series of articles reporting the findings of a longitudinal study on the impact of a new language policy about the medium of instruction on science learning of secondary students in Hong Kong. This paper compares the science achievement of Chinese students learning science through a second language, English, with that of students receiving instruction in their mother tongue, Chinese. Based on the scores on a science achievement test made up of multiple-choice and free-response questions, the English-medium students, despite their higher initial ability, were found to perform much more poorly than their Chinese-medium peers. They were particularly weak in problems that assess understanding of abstract concepts, the ability to discriminate between scientific terms, and the ability to apply scientific knowledge in novel or realistic situations. This result implies that the English-medium students were handicapped in science learning by their low levels of English proficiency, and learning English as a subject through the primary years is not sufficient to prepare them for a full English immersion program in secondary school. (Evaluation of the effects of medium of instruction on the science learning of Hong Kong secondary students: Performance on the science achievement test, Bilingual Research Journal, Summer 2003 by Yip, Din Yan, Tsang, Wing Kwong, Cheung, Sin Pui)

note that the study was conducted in secondary students. perhaps, the English-medium students would fare better if they have higher English proficiency as a result of English MOI in the primary years. but then again, the mother-tongue-advocates could have a strong argument favoring them in this study. if only we can do similar research…

—–

as to the Filipino translation of subtraction (in mathematics):

correct pronunciation of págbabawas (the stress being on the first syllable) will differentiate it from pagbábawas meaning bowel movement. the word umawas is actually the one with a bathroom connotation, as in…ang tubig ay umawas sa banyo (the water overflowed in the bathroom.).

DJB on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 1:02 am 



inidoro,
I am NOT an Asian. I am a Filipino-American. Filipinos are NOT Asians. They are Westerners who happen to be in Asia. Here I am talking about cultural identity. It is senseless to play the nation vs nation game with TIMSS. It’s purpose was to help each nation learn from the others’ strengths and weaknesses. The 20 out of 45 rank of the US average score probably reflects the polyglot (international) composition of the population. One parameter not often discussed is the standard deviation from the average or mean score of each country, which is just as impt. For example, even if the Philippines mean score was near the bottom, we still had a small percentage of our students scoring in the above average ranks because we have a broad curve (large standard deviation). Though we cannot be sure, this is almost certainly the component that studies a lot of English in the private schools and the few good public schools that don’t always take their cue from the the Pasig HQ.

There is absolutely NO basis for your claim that Asians in the US cohort are what pulled up their mean score since there is no such traceability in the data. That’s the same consuelo de bobo I heard from DepEd folks who also tried to make palusot with the excuse that the tests were given in English. I’ve already pointed out that our own local NSAT and NEAT testing in Pilipino and vernacular confirms TIMSS. The US also had individual school districts participating. In 1999, some of those school districts ranked near the very top beating countries like HongKong and Singapore, as well as one, I think Chicago, which was down with us and Somalia!

The key lesson of Timss is that the high scoring countries all have very focussed curricula, not the hodge podge congestion of the Philippines. Even the Palestinian Authority beat us out! We effectively have 12 subjects for cryin out loud, when there should be only three like Bro. Andrew wanted: Math, Science and Language, today’s equivalent of reading writing and ‘rithmetic.

When school opens in June and this argument about the govt not spending enough on education gets headlines from all the usual highly educated editors and reporters and pundits, please remember that the reason we don’t spend on classrooms and computers and good textbooks is because we insist on paying for PATRIOTISM and IDEOLOGY taught by ex-activists in Filipino instead of math and science facilities, materials and the right kind of teachers.

cvj on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 2:43 am 



Take England and America, Australia, New Zealand, Scotland, Ireland, and even India, are these countries not separate identities even if they have a common language? – DJB

Yes they are. (I’m not the one who peddles the idea of an ‘Anglosphere’.) Nevertheless, it has been established that language influences thought, and therefore identity. A lot of the things that distinguishes us Filipinos (our songs, our humor, our worldview) comes from our language. I mentioned in a previous comment that one thing i observe is that, unlike English, it is possible to say something in Pilipino without objectifying it (e.g. ‘it is raining’ vs. ‘umuulan’). Even here in Singapore, i feel that this resulting worldview is a source of strength.

It’s an Indo-Malayan language, yet Filipinos can hardly be lumped in with Indonesians and Malaysians in anything but skin color and racial type. That language you call our Mother Tongue was alien to the human beings that came to be “Filipinos” at some point in history. – DJB

On this matter, you are speaking for yourself, and perhaps other Fil-Ams (or wannabee Fil-Ams). You’re certainly not speaking for us Filipinos. The words that Pilipino has in common with Bahasa (Indonesia and Malaysia) speaks of our shared Southeast Asian heritage.

So why should local languages be preserved as if such a thing were even possible or natural? I think, like biological species and their genes, the very special memes called languages experience evolution and extinction based on survival of the fittest and natural selection. – DJB

Because anyone who appreciates complex adaptive systems realizes that diversity is one of the keys to survival. Convergence towards a monoculture (even an American monoculture) opens up a vulnerability that could ultimately lead to extinction.

And we have got to believe that this evolution of man won’t end at the nation-state.

I agree, but as someone who has worked with foreign nationals, i also realize that the key is to transcend, but not to discard national identity.

Filipinos are NOT Asians. – DJB

Genetically, that’s not true. Linguistically, that also not true. Culturally, that’s only true for some.

Blackshama on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 2:50 am 



DJB:

Please don’t fool yourself. Filipino-Americans are not Westerners, they are Asian, more specifically East Asian. We See Richard Nisbett’s The Geography of Thought: Why We Think the Way We Do. why this is so.

The language aspects of cognition and why we can think as Asian and Western given the right cultural contexts are discussed in depth by Nisbett.

DJB on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 6:31 am 



ok now it gets interesting…

Who gets to say whether DJB is Asian or Westerner? Who gets to say what the cultural identity of any given individual human being actually is?

The individual or Nesbitt or Conrado de Quiros or Blackshama?

inidoro ni emilie on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 9:27 am 



djb,

“It is senseless to play the nation vs nation game with TIMSS. It’s purpose was to help each nation learn from the others’ strengths and weaknesses.”

let me reiterate: in the 1999 timss study–please download this from dost website if it still has it–a pilot test was conducted in the philippines where 10% of the test takers took the test in filipino, and the difference in result with english test takers was deemed significant, favoring filipino test takers despite the fact the even ilocanos and cebuanos and warays and illongos, who made part of the filipino subsamples, were made to sit in tagalog-based test (aka filipino; that’s where the notion of linguistic distance makes more sense: to surmise that our regional languages may indeed be gramatically closer to one another rather than to appropriate filipino by transliterating into english). indeed, timss is not meant to play one nation against another, but language factor has never been relegated as a trivial issue in mathematics learning! that is why for the subsequent 2003 timms, the recommendation of the philippine committee is to look deeper into this factor [i was hoping they'd increase the sample size], but for the life of me, i wonder why this was not pursued. instead they opted to change one variable: instead of letting grade 7 filipino students take the test as in 1999, this was elevated to grade 8, hence the “marked” improvement in our ranking from rank 35 (1999) to rank 32-33 (2003). remarkable, no?

further, mathematics researchers the world over has always maintained this lingering suspicion that language, in the wittgensteinian sense, defines your thought [i leave it to you to read tractacus which is readily availble on the net].

your’re asking, who’s pitting which country with whom? no one, only that with these timss results, we can indeed infer–in the context of this debate, and in relation to several ongoing studies worldwide–that language might indeed be a crucial factor to learning. of course, there are other factors that come into play: resources, teaching styles, cultural ethics (eh, do you think singaporeans are doing pretty well because of their english proficiency; no, you’d be surprise that they are ‘programmed’ to do well in timms. but hey, do you know that they are hesistant to take the pisa mathematics oecd-administered test because it is more task-oriented, and the route memorization training hammered among them will no longer work, and therefore likely to drag their international rating down?), and a lot more confounding educational factors. but you see, we can only tease out one at a time. we already know that funding and resources are critical, let’s now move on to investigating language. [and please check the timss manual for a voluminous list of intervening variables that one can appreciate].

“There is absolutely NO basis for your claim that Asians in the US cohort are what pulled up their mean score since there is no such traceability in the data.”

oh, but i was just following up your innuedo from previous and earlier language discussion [not this one; but two topics ago] on your claim that in fact migrating asians in the u.s. shore do highly pretty well in maths and sciences [which is true, anyway; so let's not kid ourselves, just surf the net and you'd be able to find copious surveys pointing to u.s. based asians being at the top in maths and sciences. we'll infer from there.]

“I am NOT an Asian. I am a Filipino-American.”

for a second i thought i was reading michelle malkin. but hey, lucky you–you were educated in your FIRST LANGUAGE, which is english. unfortunately for the multitude of filipinos in public and rural and/or provincial schools, english will only be a third language, next to filipino. it might become 4th, considering that math has its registers.

what i find interesting in this language debate is that the agenda for the medium of instruction has veered away from the intended recipient of the policy: the students. instead of focusing on the cognitive impact of employing a foreign language (that is what the fl in toefl means, english as a foreign language; which means it is not our first language) on maths and science learning, the discussion has centered on ideologies and sociocultural ek-ek. lost in the middle of this exchanges is the central issue for the language purpose: INSTRUCTION–which means investigating its impact at classroom level. so could your temporarily leave your ideologies by the doorstep before entering the classroom?

inidoro ni emilie on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 10:20 am 



“For example, even if the Philippines mean score was near the bottom, we still had a small percentage of our students scoring in the above average ranks because we have a broad curve (large standard deviation).”

dean, these data are readily available in the timss website. you can download heaps of them. indeed i have no argument with that. but then perhaps our local students (could you still claim “our”, considering you have manifested your cultural allegiance to ungkel sam? ;D) who performed in the upper percentile mark may have the luxury of english language education at home and at home (making it their first if not second language). but i go back to bourdieu’s notion of cultural capital, which can be proxied by high income level: i urge you instead to consider looking at how the disadvantaged students (whether financially or linguistically) would have generally fared. we are, after all, seeking here for means to improve their academic lot. do these people have the cultural capital exposure enjoyed by private school students? hence this personal advocacy: bilingualism, i.e., support instruction through first language use where it may be needed, or when the need arises. filipino-only policy will not work in other regions; it only rehashes the debate on the demerits of english-only policy.

inidoro ni emilie on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 10:22 am 



correction: “at home and at school”

inidoro ni emilie on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 11:41 am 



“Bro. Andrew wanted: Math, Science and Language, today’s equivalent of reading writing and ‘rithmetic.”

djb,

are you aware that during bro andrew’s time as sec of educ, there were several pilot schools involved and assigned to vernacular teaching across the archipelago (ilokano, cebuano and tagalog, primarily)? in that experimental set up, the initial results were showing promising impact, until your ate glo scrapped the program. see, a scientific study was being conducted to resolve the language factor issue, and here comes the gnome scrapping what she perceived to be ineffective because, oh well, she must have thought her georgetown english should be emulated instead.

UPn student on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 8:53 pm 



There is also a line of thought (Mahathir of Malaysia said something to this effect; the government of Malawi and a couple of others are putting it into practice) which says that the educational system of a country should be focused primarily on the available jobs that exist in that country and not on the jobs being in demand in the EU, Australia, or the US. The policy implication for public school funding is the reduction of emphasis on features that are overseas-oriented (including the English language) and putting focus on the jobs that exist in the country (farming, merchandising/retail trade). Nuclear physics? No reason for a public institution to orient itself to that — the nuclear science technicians only head overseas eventually.
Funding is also being reduced for public universities based on the observation that said it is the children of the elite that get into those universities.

vic on Sat, 28th Apr 2007 9:20 pm 



UPn: “Funding is also being reduced for public universities based on the observation that said it is the children of the elite that get into those universities.”

That should not have been a problem. The Public Universities or the Education Ministry could just easily make the requirements to admission to Public Universities, for those deserving students with lesser means. And it is not very hard to determine by just checking on the family’s or parents’ Income Tax returns. Why punish the students by reducing the funding, just because it is being abused by the elites ? I would say, correct the defects.

The Ca t on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 12:14 am 



a scientific study was being conducted to resolve the language factor issue

Where is the study?

UPn student on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 12:35 am 



vic: I believe reason given for reducing public university funding is because of the elimination of quantum physics, molecular biology and other courses (and entire curriculum) that did not match the job opportunities of the country.

Bencard on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 12:59 am 



This “language war” is very interesting indeed. Reading most of the well-reasoned comments made here, I think the consensus is that the Filipino, which is essentially Tagalog, is in its present state, an inadequate medium of communication for all purposes.

I think the reason for this inadequacy is the conventional, but unrealistic, wish to have a “pure” language that we could call our own and would give us a “national identity”. As DJB sees it, the desire is a throwback to the traditional dogma called nationalism which had lost its lustre with the advent of globalization.

I think the only way we could make a national language work is to discard the purist attitude and supplement the Filipino with words and terminologies that we could best understand and which could impart the very ideas that we want to convey. We should be able to use any word from any language or dialect as we need it.

Thus we need not invent words like “salumpuit” for chair, or we could say “ang bahagi ng ating katawan ay binubuo ng ma nga cells na binubuo naman ng molikyuls.

UPn student on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 1:06 am 



By the way (and this is for the US environment, but the same legal mumbo-jumbo may be applicable to Canada) grandparents who open trustfunds for their grandchildren are encouraged to put “last-resort” wording. This means that if their 20-year-old granddaughter qualifies for a scholarship because she has no job (as well as bright), but would not qualify if the trustfund is tapped for tuition/fees, that the trustfund will NOT be source for tuition/fees (so that the no-job student obtains the scholarship).
** Rich kids opening trustfunds for their parents are also advised to put the “last resort” clause, this time for Medicare benefits and similar.
[Any and all who benefit from this legal advice is encouraged to send $250.00 to the ACLU.]

cvj on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 2:33 am 



Bencard, a better way to phrase it is ‘Ang katawan ay binubuo ng cells na siya namang binubuo ng molecules.’ No need to contrive spellings unless you’re trying to be cute. Also, after 110 comments, you’re the first one who brought up ’salumpuit’, which is obviously another attempt at a strawman argument. I agree with you that, oftentimes, we are able to better convey an idea if we discard a purist attitude like when i say, for example, ‘sablay na naman ang summary ni Bencard‘ (where the word ‘summary‘ is used in place of ‘kabuuan‘).

Bencard on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 7:06 am 



cvj, you really like the word strawman, don’t you? I’m glad, though, that you seem to get the point I was trying to make – grudgingly, but you really seemed to. The “contrive(d) spelling” is just to TAGALIZE (if you don’t mind) a borrowed term which we often do to fit into our vernacular, as when you (and your fellow travelers)say “burgis” for bourgeois.

inidoro ni emilie on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 8:50 am 



which study?

if you have access to this journal, grab it:

Allan B. I. Bernardo (2004. McKinley’s questionable bequest: over 100 years of English in Philippine education, World Englishes 23 (1), 17–31.

and then of course, you can also inquire from decs about this vernacular pilot study which up to the time of dr. isagani cruz (not the nemesis of mlq3) as under secretary was still on going but was cut short for political reasons.

inidoro ni emilie on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 8:55 am 



and hey, mind you, that a refereed article. so i didn’t make that up.

inidoro ni emilie on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 9:02 am 



“I think the only way we could make a national language work is to discard the purist attitude and supplement the Filipino with words and terminologies that we could best understand and which could impart the very ideas that we want to convey. We should be able to use any word from any language or dialect as we need it.”

bencard, indeed. language after all is living and therefore evolves. english is the most impure language that has adopted several words from different world languages. so why can’t we do the same?

Ken on Sun, 29th Apr 2007 2:02 pm 



My disagreement with JUMPER:

Just because we Filipinos already have exposure to the English language doesn’t mean that we should exclude the teaching and learning of other vital foreign languages. What century is this? The 21st century. What else is this century called? The ASIAN CENTURY. Meaning the economic powerhouses of, China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan. With China making trillions in revenue, Korea, Taiwan and Japan as huge investors and tourists to the Philippines, wouldn’t it be wise and practical for students to learn Mandarin and Korean? Nihongo is already well established in many schools in the Philippines with thousands of Filipinos already fluent in Japanese. Mind you there are already 22 million students around the world learning Mandarin, so why not the Philippines learning Mandarin? The Philippines is the crossroads of Asia where tourists, investors and students from neighboring Asian countries visit. So it would make sense to at least start learning Mandarin, since this language is becoming the third language among the SE and East Asian nations. The Philippines with it’s laborforce and trained professionals will not be able to advance with English only, when we have a market of billions of Chinese right next door to us. Don’t forget about the hundreds of thousands of Koreans and Japanese who visit our country.
I’m sorry to say, but your own thinking is limited and bias at the least. We don’t need limited and biased thinking, but need optimistic thinking!

jumper on Mon, 30th Apr 2007 5:10 pm 



ken, i never said that we shouldn’t learn languages other than english. my point simply was if you’re already exposed to english, if you already have a headstart in it, then it would be quicker and easier for you to learn that. but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn mandarin or spanish or korean if you want to. you can choose to learn any of them depending on your needs and/or preferences. heck, you can even learn all of them if you have the time and perseverance!

i’m talking about choosing paths of least resistance, not which language is better. i’m sorry if you misunderstood my point. perhaps i should have written it in mandarin?

Bencard on Tue, 1st May 2007 4:28 am 



“…language afterall is living and therefore evolves”.

Amen, I say to you, iniduro. And it evolves with education, necessity, and civilization, if I might add.

Global Voices Online » The English language debate in the Philippines on Mon, 18th Jun 2007 12:49 am 

[...] must-read: Manuel L. Quezon III uploads the pertinent documents, news articles, opinion pieces and shares his perspective on the [...]

alyssa pita on Tue, 19th Jun 2007 6:36 pm 



well… i just visit here.. i only say that when i read this websibe.. i feel like im in a solemn place… well i dont know.. but can you give me the history and biography of Manuel L. Quezon? Te whole article… Thank you… Someday i want to serve our country… Today i am 14 year old but sooner i will become a public servant.. i want to study in U.P. Diliman… but my lifestlye still doesn’t fit in U.P.. we were too poor…. actually my older brother is now studying at U.P Pampanga. And i hope and wish that i can follow my brother…

That’s it.. i am just sharing what i am..
thank you for reading!!!!

John Michael on Sun, 29th Jul 2007 1:39 pm 



where is the salawikain

pinagmulan ng wika sa ibang bansa on Sat, 14th Jun 2008 3:51 pm 

[...] maibigay na mga aklat na nakasulat sa Pilipino o sa wika ng mga iba??t ibang bahagi ng Pilipinas …http://www.quezon.ph/1279/language-wars-to-be-updated/Welcome to Manila Bulletin Online :: … ay Buwan ng Wika. Nararapat lamang na ang Malaking [...]

ansherina on Sun, 15th Jun 2008 12:04 pm 



walang kwenta..wla d2 ung hnhnap quh!!!!!!!!!

teorya sa pinagmulan ng pilipino on Sun, 22nd Jun 2008 10:07 am 

[...] June 14th, 2008 at 3:51 pm. … maibigay na mga aklat na nakasulat sa pilipino o sa wika ng mga …http://www.quezon.ph/1279/language-wars-to-be-updated/Academic – Pinoy Henyoang pinagmulan ng wika? kasaysayan ng wikang pambansa? … Magbigay ng mga [...]

iq rating on Fri, 4th Jul 2008 6:22 pm 

[...] isang sagot??? senatorial forum, which will be broadcast this Sunday and the next I represented …http://www.quezon.ph/1279/language-wars-to-be-updated/Arianna Huffington: Sunday RoundupArianna Huffington: Sunday Roundup It was quite a week. Barack [...]

ebolusyon ng pambansang wika ng pilipinas on Thu, 10th Jul 2008 1:19 am 

[...] bahagi ng pilipinas … Ang teorya ng ebolusyon sa pamamagitan ng natural selection ay unang …http://www.quezon.ph/1279/language-wars-to-be-updated/Languagelinks.org | Linggwistiks Para sa mga Mag-aaral ng AGHAM …ang ebolusyon ng "pepet [...]

teorya tungkol sa pinagmulan ng wika on Thu, 10th Jul 2008 7:32 pm 

[...] 22nd, 2008 at 10:07 am … Pinoy Henyoang pinagmulan ng wika? kasaysayan ng wikang pambansa? …http://www.quezon.ph/1279/language-wars-to-be-updated/WikiAnswers – Ang teorya ng wikaTanong sa Tagalog question: Ang teorya ng wika? Ding Dong – bagay. [...]

elle princess on Fri, 14th Nov 2008 5:32 pm 



“language is our nature” even though filipinos has its own language sa kanya-kanyang provice – still were are all Filipinos. . my question is, why Mr.manuel L Qeuzon recommend that the “Tagalog” is our national language?

elle princess on Fri, 14th Nov 2008 5:34 pm 



“language is our nature” even though filipinos has its own language sa kanya-kanyang provice – still were are all Filipinos. . my question is, why Mr.manuel L Quezon recommend that the “Tagalog” is our national language?

elle princess on Fri, 14th Nov 2008 5:37 pm 



DJB,

elle princess on Fri, 14th Nov 2008 5:43 pm 



djb, why were Filipinos are not belong to asianers? hehe so why is the Philippines are count in to the asia?!

elle princess on Fri, 14th Nov 2008 5:44 pm 



ansherina, naligaw k pala?! hehe pwede friends tau?

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