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	<title>Comments on: A needless complication</title>
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	<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/</link>
	<description>Punditry. Politics. History. Commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: justice league</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419962</link>
		<dc:creator>justice league</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 17:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419962</guid>
		<description>What are the chances that an independent Mindanao will remain as &quot;one&quot; Mindanao?

Will the NPA&#039;s in Mindanao cease operations?

Will the Moro militants be content on &quot;their&quot; part of a &quot;one&quot; Mindanao?

Should any untoward incidents occur in an independent Mindanao; what is the probability that our new southern provinces of Cebu and Bohol will not be affected?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the chances that an independent Mindanao will remain as &#8220;one&#8221; Mindanao?</p>
<p>Will the NPA&#8217;s in Mindanao cease operations?</p>
<p>Will the Moro militants be content on &#8220;their&#8221; part of a &#8220;one&#8221; Mindanao?</p>
<p>Should any untoward incidents occur in an independent Mindanao; what is the probability that our new southern provinces of Cebu and Bohol will not be affected?</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419272</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419272</guid>
		<description>sorry, should read &lt;i&gt;while hoping for trickle down benefits to materialize.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry, should read <i>while hoping for trickle down benefits to materialize.</i></p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419249</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419249</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I agree with Wash Sycip. Democracy Philippine style is just not working. - Musings&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Democracy Philippine style is not working because it is largely controlled by the elite as shown by the muted reaction to &lt;i&gt;Hello Garci&lt;/i&gt;.  Of course, even if we grant that this kind of democracy is not working, does that mean that a dictatorship would be better?

The problem is that elitists like Washington Sycip want to have their cake and eat it too. The apparently successful dictatorships that they cite used authoritarian rule against the elite like them.   Once their societies were on a more equal footing, then it was in a better position to embark on a sustained program of development.  In China, it was Mao before Deng.  In Vietnam, it was Ho Chi Minh before Doi Moi.  (In Singapore, there was no land so there were no landlords so they started on a more or less equal footing.)

If Washington Sycip would like to fully implement our neighbors&#039; model, they should implement every aspect and not just the self-serving part that would leave the elites and warlords intact.  Under this arrangement, the dictatorship will only be used to quell any resistance from the suffering masses, while hoping for trickle down benefits to materials.  The middle class will then have to close their eyes or rationalize the Palparan&#039;s in their midst.  Can you stomach that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I agree with Wash Sycip. Democracy Philippine style is just not working. &#8211; Musings</p></blockquote>
<p>Democracy Philippine style is not working because it is largely controlled by the elite as shown by the muted reaction to <i>Hello Garci</i>.  Of course, even if we grant that this kind of democracy is not working, does that mean that a dictatorship would be better?</p>
<p>The problem is that elitists like Washington Sycip want to have their cake and eat it too. The apparently successful dictatorships that they cite used authoritarian rule against the elite like them.   Once their societies were on a more equal footing, then it was in a better position to embark on a sustained program of development.  In China, it was Mao before Deng.  In Vietnam, it was Ho Chi Minh before Doi Moi.  (In Singapore, there was no land so there were no landlords so they started on a more or less equal footing.)</p>
<p>If Washington Sycip would like to fully implement our neighbors&#8217; model, they should implement every aspect and not just the self-serving part that would leave the elites and warlords intact.  Under this arrangement, the dictatorship will only be used to quell any resistance from the suffering masses, while hoping for trickle down benefits to materials.  The middle class will then have to close their eyes or rationalize the Palparan&#8217;s in their midst.  Can you stomach that?</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419230</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 05:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419230</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Mindanao is a cash-cow for Luzon, namely more tax-money is obtained from, versus spent in, Mindanao. - UPn Student&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think that&#039;s precisely one of the gripes of the Mindanaoans.  Even if we keep Mindanao, this unjust situation needs to be rectified.

On Jeg&#039;s question, losing Mindanao may end up good or bad. It could be like what happened with Singapore and Malaysia where both ended up prosperous.  (On paper, at least, the per capita GDP of what remains of the Philippines will suddenly jump, not that it means anything.) Or it could also end up like India and Pakistan, where the latter has become a dangerously unstable neighbor.  Who knows?

My preference is to keep the Philippines whole, which is part of the reason why i get so irritated when Gloria herself raises this rhetoric about &lt;i&gt;Imperial Manila&lt;/i&gt;. One of the sure fire ways to eventually lose Mindanao is to escalate the war over there.  As Jeg already pointed out, remember what happened to the former Yugoslavia and observe what is happening to Iraq right now.

I believe that the Americans themselves would want the war to escalate and eventually split up the Philippines so that they can reestablish their forward bases in Mindanao as a buffer against a resurgent China.  Against this geopolitical backdrop, all this talk about outrage against this incident sounds manufactured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Mindanao is a cash-cow for Luzon, namely more tax-money is obtained from, versus spent in, Mindanao. &#8211; UPn Student</p></blockquote>
<p>I think that&#8217;s precisely one of the gripes of the Mindanaoans.  Even if we keep Mindanao, this unjust situation needs to be rectified.</p>
<p>On Jeg&#8217;s question, losing Mindanao may end up good or bad. It could be like what happened with Singapore and Malaysia where both ended up prosperous.  (On paper, at least, the per capita GDP of what remains of the Philippines will suddenly jump, not that it means anything.) Or it could also end up like India and Pakistan, where the latter has become a dangerously unstable neighbor.  Who knows?</p>
<p>My preference is to keep the Philippines whole, which is part of the reason why i get so irritated when Gloria herself raises this rhetoric about <i>Imperial Manila</i>. One of the sure fire ways to eventually lose Mindanao is to escalate the war over there.  As Jeg already pointed out, remember what happened to the former Yugoslavia and observe what is happening to Iraq right now.</p>
<p>I believe that the Americans themselves would want the war to escalate and eventually split up the Philippines so that they can reestablish their forward bases in Mindanao as a buffer against a resurgent China.  Against this geopolitical backdrop, all this talk about outrage against this incident sounds manufactured.</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419206</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 05:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419206</guid>
		<description>I sent a txt message to my friends and told them that im not going to vote.
because of the following reasons:

1. The people who are going to supervise it are the same people who orchestrated GMA&#039;s way to presidency last 2004.

2. The elections are going to be held under the GMA government.

For one I refuse to recognize this government, other than that I honestly think that nothing good will come out of the current Comelec as it is today. So why bother voting when the next thing you know your ballots are going to be used to count the asshole of a candidate you sincerely detest?

The reply to my message was devastating, the people I thought to be intellectuals and thinkers insisted that people who don&#039;t vote like me are anarchist and that they support the will of the people to hold a &quot;democratic&quot; election.

I doubt they never heard about passive resistance as it was done in India at the time of Gandhi or better yet they might have known about it yet decided to place their faith upon an illegitimate government as well as a corruptible Comelec.

For this It was also timely for me that I am reading about Ninoy Aquino. How he was able to win in an election held under the most auspicious eyes of that scumbag Marcos.

I understand that he won second in his senatorial run against his formidable opponents. I must admit I don&#039;t know if at that time Comelec was as crooked as it is today or filipinos could be bought as they are today.

I also don&#039;t know if their epiphany for Ninoy was because of his incorrigible faith in the filipinos good will. I read that even in his final moments he still valiantly believe that the filipinos are worth dying for. Either way I still think that he was legitimately voted into office but majority of the senators who won (actually he was the only one who won from the opposition) were for Marcos.

So why do you think Ninoy won? I think he was made to win by Marcos because it was the only way to satiate the desire for debate in the halls of the senate or else the venue would be nothing more than an echoing YES hall.

I am not saying that he was never popular as he was then, I believe that his victory was also because of his effective information campaign, nonetheless he was the only one who won from the opposition, doesn&#039;t that ring a bell?

Assuming that indeed the people experienced the massive cheating in the elections and THEY DID vote for the right leaders, what was it that they did after? Was it worse than the &quot;Hello Garci&quot; scandal?

It is here that we will find credence as to my actions and my decision not to vote. Ninoy stood alone in the senate a lone sheep amongst wolves. He talks and delivers speeches vehemently against Marcos and people loved him because he stood as somebody who passionately believes in the power of the filipinos to think for themselves, but forward it to thirty years or more and you find filipinos trying to stomach another subtle dictatorship such as GMA&#039;s.

The truth is people change and their ways for struggle does too. If we can&#039;t even vouch for a fair and honest election, then why the hell vote?!! If we can&#039;t fight against the illegitimate government and a Comelec that houses Garci and Abalos then why the hell vote and hope that these people will give you your due?

I never lost faith in my countrymen and just like Ninoy I firmly believe that there will be a better future for our country. BUT I WILL NEVER TOLERATE THAT MY COUNTRYMEN BE TRICKED INTO PARTICIPATING IN FRAUD RIDDLED ELECTIONS!

A professor of mine told me that the reason bad leaders get voted into office is because of the lack of good people voting. And he bluntly told me that I was one of them, he followed it by saying that this country would be no better off with people like me and he&#039;d rather migrate to another country because of my beliefs.

How about he tells that to people going out of the country and NOT EVEN TRYING TO SACRIFICE AND CHANGE ANYTHING, INSTEAD BE USED BY THE ILLEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT FOR ITS OWN ENDS?

Perhaps it is true that if I never vote then the wrong kind of leaders will be voted into office, but that is only because people like my professor never does anything to go against the corrupt officials in Comelec and the regime.

It was also from him that I first heard of that adage where he says that &quot;The people gets the government they deserve&quot;. If what he says is true then HE deserves this kind of government and NOT ME!

Ergo I choose not to vote. I choose not to be used by the government. And if they believe that by forfeiting my right to vote I would also forfeit my right to complain from the government then so be it. If they brand me as an anarchist then I brand the government as a manipulative asshole who tries to stage a democratic front not even worthy of a second rate television drama.

Other than that if you still firmly believe that we&#039;re still a democratic country then maybe its time that you read about Ninoy and learn the lessons of our history from his eyes. Or else be one of those tricked into believing that just because we were able to exercise democracy, we are definitely free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sent a txt message to my friends and told them that im not going to vote.<br />
because of the following reasons:</p>
<p>1. The people who are going to supervise it are the same people who orchestrated GMA&#8217;s way to presidency last 2004.</p>
<p>2. The elections are going to be held under the GMA government.</p>
<p>For one I refuse to recognize this government, other than that I honestly think that nothing good will come out of the current Comelec as it is today. So why bother voting when the next thing you know your ballots are going to be used to count the asshole of a candidate you sincerely detest?</p>
<p>The reply to my message was devastating, the people I thought to be intellectuals and thinkers insisted that people who don&#8217;t vote like me are anarchist and that they support the will of the people to hold a &#8220;democratic&#8221; election.</p>
<p>I doubt they never heard about passive resistance as it was done in India at the time of Gandhi or better yet they might have known about it yet decided to place their faith upon an illegitimate government as well as a corruptible Comelec.</p>
<p>For this It was also timely for me that I am reading about Ninoy Aquino. How he was able to win in an election held under the most auspicious eyes of that scumbag Marcos.</p>
<p>I understand that he won second in his senatorial run against his formidable opponents. I must admit I don&#8217;t know if at that time Comelec was as crooked as it is today or filipinos could be bought as they are today.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t know if their epiphany for Ninoy was because of his incorrigible faith in the filipinos good will. I read that even in his final moments he still valiantly believe that the filipinos are worth dying for. Either way I still think that he was legitimately voted into office but majority of the senators who won (actually he was the only one who won from the opposition) were for Marcos.</p>
<p>So why do you think Ninoy won? I think he was made to win by Marcos because it was the only way to satiate the desire for debate in the halls of the senate or else the venue would be nothing more than an echoing YES hall.</p>
<p>I am not saying that he was never popular as he was then, I believe that his victory was also because of his effective information campaign, nonetheless he was the only one who won from the opposition, doesn&#8217;t that ring a bell?</p>
<p>Assuming that indeed the people experienced the massive cheating in the elections and THEY DID vote for the right leaders, what was it that they did after? Was it worse than the &#8220;Hello Garci&#8221; scandal?</p>
<p>It is here that we will find credence as to my actions and my decision not to vote. Ninoy stood alone in the senate a lone sheep amongst wolves. He talks and delivers speeches vehemently against Marcos and people loved him because he stood as somebody who passionately believes in the power of the filipinos to think for themselves, but forward it to thirty years or more and you find filipinos trying to stomach another subtle dictatorship such as GMA&#8217;s.</p>
<p>The truth is people change and their ways for struggle does too. If we can&#8217;t even vouch for a fair and honest election, then why the hell vote?!! If we can&#8217;t fight against the illegitimate government and a Comelec that houses Garci and Abalos then why the hell vote and hope that these people will give you your due?</p>
<p>I never lost faith in my countrymen and just like Ninoy I firmly believe that there will be a better future for our country. BUT I WILL NEVER TOLERATE THAT MY COUNTRYMEN BE TRICKED INTO PARTICIPATING IN FRAUD RIDDLED ELECTIONS!</p>
<p>A professor of mine told me that the reason bad leaders get voted into office is because of the lack of good people voting. And he bluntly told me that I was one of them, he followed it by saying that this country would be no better off with people like me and he&#8217;d rather migrate to another country because of my beliefs.</p>
<p>How about he tells that to people going out of the country and NOT EVEN TRYING TO SACRIFICE AND CHANGE ANYTHING, INSTEAD BE USED BY THE ILLEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT FOR ITS OWN ENDS?</p>
<p>Perhaps it is true that if I never vote then the wrong kind of leaders will be voted into office, but that is only because people like my professor never does anything to go against the corrupt officials in Comelec and the regime.</p>
<p>It was also from him that I first heard of that adage where he says that &#8220;The people gets the government they deserve&#8221;. If what he says is true then HE deserves this kind of government and NOT ME!</p>
<p>Ergo I choose not to vote. I choose not to be used by the government. And if they believe that by forfeiting my right to vote I would also forfeit my right to complain from the government then so be it. If they brand me as an anarchist then I brand the government as a manipulative asshole who tries to stage a democratic front not even worthy of a second rate television drama.</p>
<p>Other than that if you still firmly believe that we&#8217;re still a democratic country then maybe its time that you read about Ninoy and learn the lessons of our history from his eyes. Or else be one of those tricked into believing that just because we were able to exercise democracy, we are definitely free.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeg</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419200</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 05:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419200</guid>
		<description>Interesting. It would be good for Mindanao but not Luzon? I mean, did all of that losing happen when, say, Croatia and Bosnia ceded from Yugoslavia? Did the Croatians get depressed? Did the Czechs and the Slovaks make each other depressed or are they happier now? I dont know about the taxes thing. Seems youre making some pretty tenuous connections, UPn. But at least you didnt mouth any of that sovereignty stuff.

Note: I havent made up my mind about this yet. But trying to be a Jeffersonian, Im leaning towards giving Mindanao its freedom from Manila. IF they want it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. It would be good for Mindanao but not Luzon? I mean, did all of that losing happen when, say, Croatia and Bosnia ceded from Yugoslavia? Did the Croatians get depressed? Did the Czechs and the Slovaks make each other depressed or are they happier now? I dont know about the taxes thing. Seems youre making some pretty tenuous connections, UPn. But at least you didnt mouth any of that sovereignty stuff.</p>
<p>Note: I havent made up my mind about this yet. But trying to be a Jeffersonian, Im leaning towards giving Mindanao its freedom from Manila. IF they want it.</p>
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		<title>By: UPn student</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419168</link>
		<dc:creator>UPn student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 04:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419168</guid>
		<description>And ricelander&#039;s point is well-worth thinking about.  
The CPP/NPA ain&#039;t going anywhere since there is no foreign money supporting in. In contrast, Arab money is flowing into the MILF/MNLF.
To lose Minda is to lose to foreigners. 
To lose territory to a foreign country? 
To have to pay for a visa to visit Davao?
Expect the Vietnamese and the Thais and the Indonesians, plus the Brits and the Frenchies to ask.... 
What is wrong with you people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And ricelander&#8217;s point is well-worth thinking about.<br />
The CPP/NPA ain&#8217;t going anywhere since there is no foreign money supporting in. In contrast, Arab money is flowing into the MILF/MNLF.<br />
To lose Minda is to lose to foreigners.<br />
To lose territory to a foreign country?<br />
To have to pay for a visa to visit Davao?<br />
Expect the Vietnamese and the Thais and the Indonesians, plus the Brits and the Frenchies to ask&#8230;.<br />
What is wrong with you people?</p>
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		<title>By: UPn student</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419130</link>
		<dc:creator>UPn student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 04:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419130</guid>
		<description>Mindanao is a cash-cow for Luzon, namely more tax-money is obtained from, versus spent in, Mindanao. Mindanao is important for intra-country trade. TRANSLATION: taxes will be raised in LuzVi should Minda get lost, if you want the same quality-of-service. I bet you that LuzVi-jobs get lost, too since the span-of-control of Luz-based banks get reduced.  And the way this is going, Minda gets lost at the barrel of a gun, which means LuzVi loses, which means LuzVi will have to &quot;pay reparations&quot;, which is the penalty for LOSERS.
/..  Then think of &quot;degrees of separation&quot;.  So cvj may NOT be directly affected but there will quite a number of people, some he may even care about, just 2- or 3-degrees of separation away that are affected. One of the problem with LOSERS is they get depressed, and a depressed community is a... well.... depressing community to be in.
/.. Lastly, Minda gets lost only because of the ineptitude of LuzVi. In other words, the Minda situation is completely solvable in this generation.  This becomes another one of those &quot;... so why is the Philippines now bottom of the barrel when it used to be just second to Japan just a few years ago?  What is wrong with you people?&quot;  I don&#039;t know about you, but it affects me badly when I hear the question... &quot;What is wrong with you people?&quot; I would be affected when asked &quot;... What?  You lost Minda?  What is wrong with you people?&quot;
/... LOSERS get depressed, that is something to think about.
/.. Say it with feeling ...  LOSER... LOSER... LOSER... What is wrong with you people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mindanao is a cash-cow for Luzon, namely more tax-money is obtained from, versus spent in, Mindanao. Mindanao is important for intra-country trade. TRANSLATION: taxes will be raised in LuzVi should Minda get lost, if you want the same quality-of-service. I bet you that LuzVi-jobs get lost, too since the span-of-control of Luz-based banks get reduced.  And the way this is going, Minda gets lost at the barrel of a gun, which means LuzVi loses, which means LuzVi will have to &#8220;pay reparations&#8221;, which is the penalty for LOSERS.<br />
/..  Then think of &#8220;degrees of separation&#8221;.  So cvj may NOT be directly affected but there will quite a number of people, some he may even care about, just 2- or 3-degrees of separation away that are affected. One of the problem with LOSERS is they get depressed, and a depressed community is a&#8230; well&#8230;. depressing community to be in.<br />
/.. Lastly, Minda gets lost only because of the ineptitude of LuzVi. In other words, the Minda situation is completely solvable in this generation.  This becomes another one of those &#8220;&#8230; so why is the Philippines now bottom of the barrel when it used to be just second to Japan just a few years ago?  What is wrong with you people?&#8221;  I don&#8217;t know about you, but it affects me badly when I hear the question&#8230; &#8220;What is wrong with you people?&#8221; I would be affected when asked &#8220;&#8230; What?  You lost Minda?  What is wrong with you people?&#8221;<br />
/&#8230; LOSERS get depressed, that is something to think about.<br />
/.. Say it with feeling &#8230;  LOSER&#8230; LOSER&#8230; LOSER&#8230; What is wrong with you people?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeg</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419046</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 02:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419046</guid>
		<description>Nope. Let&#039;s stick to Mindanao. Why would it be bad for the Philippines to be limited to Luzon and Visayas? Im assuming youre not from Mindanao, ricelander. (If you are, please correct me.) What&#039;s so bad about you or me, a jabroni from Luzon, to lose Mindanao?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope. Let&#8217;s stick to Mindanao. Why would it be bad for the Philippines to be limited to Luzon and Visayas? Im assuming youre not from Mindanao, ricelander. (If you are, please correct me.) What&#8217;s so bad about you or me, a jabroni from Luzon, to lose Mindanao?</p>
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		<title>By: ricelander</title>
		<link>http://www.quezon.ph/2007/02/05/a-needless-complication/comment-page-1/#comment-419030</link>
		<dc:creator>ricelander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 02:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quezon.ph/?p=1150#comment-419030</guid>
		<description>Jeg, you ask what&#039;s so bad about losing Mindanao?  You could also begin to ask what&#039;s so bad about losing the Visayas. Or what&#039;s wrong losing Luzon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeg, you ask what&#8217;s so bad about losing Mindanao?  You could also begin to ask what&#8217;s so bad about losing the Visayas. Or what&#8217;s wrong losing Luzon?</p>
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